1
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Hey, hey, ba fam, it is producer Imani here.

2
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,880
Speaker 2: Yes, finally you.

3
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: Know I can say what's up Mandy and Tiffany. I

4
00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,280
Speaker 1: am going rogue? Just kidding, I'm not going rogue, Okay.

5
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 1: I am just here to let y'all know. It is

6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: how to Mondays. Everybody who tunes in every Monday for

7
00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:32,040
Speaker 1: a throwback Brown Ambition episode, you are in for a

8
00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 1: special treat this week. It's how to Make six Figures

9
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 1: in Tech. Make sure you tune into all of Brown

10
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: Ambition episodes every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Enjoy this throwback

11
00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 1: b a fam.

12
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,600
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, hey, be a fam. I cannot wait to

13
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 3: introduce you to today's guest. She is someone who I

14
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 3: have been cyberstocking, not in a creepy way, in a

15
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 3: totally cool way for a long time. I feel like

16
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 3: she is my nine to five hotty partner in crime.

17
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,840
Speaker 3: She's me. I think we have so much in common

18
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 3: with the way she's approached her career and her inspirational

19
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,559
Speaker 3: message of how anyone out there, even if you're working

20
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 3: nine to five, you can still build wealth. I am

21
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,200
Speaker 3: so happy to welcome Sonia to the show. Sania founded Flyinance,

22
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 3: which is an online platform dedicated to helping ambitious working women,

23
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 3: who she calls nine to five hotties, effortlessly build wealth

24
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,679
Speaker 3: and say yes to more travel. She's a product manager

25
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 3: and she's worked at major companies like AMX and MasterCard,

26
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,319
Speaker 3: and she has grown her salary four x in just

27
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 3: four years, became debt free, and managed to reach one

28
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 3: hundred K net worth by the tender age of twenty

29
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 3: six years old. Her story has been featured everywhere from

30
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 3: GMA to CNBC and now she's on Brown Ambition. So

31
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,279
Speaker 3: now you've made it, Okay, I know GMA is like cool,

32
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,600
Speaker 3: Come on, it's Brown Ambition for Legends right now.

33
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 2: That's a sad I'm jan girling very hard inside. Thank

34
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 2: you so much, Mady.

35
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 3: Likewise, Cinia, it's such a pleasure to have you on

36
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 3: the show. First and foremost, thank you for being I

37
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 3: feel like I've been banging this drum of quit your

38
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 3: way rich like kind of alone, and there's this like

39
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,680
Speaker 3: stigma around telling people to quit their jobs. Talk to

40
00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 3: me about and you're you know, you're a few years

41
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 3: younger than me, right are you? How old are you?

42
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 2: If you don't mind, I'm twenty seven right now?

43
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're a few years younger. It was around

44
00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 3: my mid twenties when I started making those really you know,

45
00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 3: strategic quits, and I quit six times in a decade

46
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 3: of my career. Now, I was in journalism, and I

47
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 3: remember my little brother kind of telling me, like, why

48
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,679
Speaker 3: do you want to go into journalism? Do not want

49
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 3: to make money? And I remember thinking, listen, I tell stories.

50
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,240
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go for it. And I managed to quit

51
00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 3: and increase my wealth along the way. But yeah, it

52
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,240
Speaker 3: wasn't like the traditional traditional career trajectory or the traditional

53
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 3: industry you would think you could build wealth in. Now

54
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 3: you chose tech or did you tell me a little

55
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 3: bit about your career journey where you started and when

56
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,200
Speaker 3: you started to realize, oh, I can quit and actually

57
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:16,919
Speaker 3: build wealth here.

58
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,640
Speaker 4: Yes, I love this question. So my career really actually

59
00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 4: started in financial services. I landed my very first job

60
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 4: at Ames on a product management team totally by chance.

61
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:30,239
Speaker 2: Right.

62
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,120
Speaker 4: I did not know anything about what I wanted my

63
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 4: career to look like when I graduated from college and

64
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 4: grad school. This was around twenty seventeen, right, so product

65
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 4: management wasn't quite the hot buzzy, you know career choice

66
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 4: that it is today. So at that point I was

67
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 4: just happy to have landed my first big girl salary

68
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 4: and to land on a team with really great leadership.

69
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 4: But as I kind of spent more time at AMEX

70
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 4: and really learned that, hey, product management is not only

71
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,160
Speaker 4: something that's very strategic, it is something that I really enjoy.

72
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,360
Speaker 4: I really feel like this is like my zone of genius.

73
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 4: That's kind of when I started to see that, Wow,

74
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 4: there's a lot of opportunity out here for me, and

75
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 4: a lot of opportunity for me to grow and pivot

76
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,000
Speaker 4: my career. Right, I don't just have to stay at

77
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,320
Speaker 4: this one company. I don't just have to stay in

78
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 4: this one type of work. So I think tech was

79
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 4: always kind of something I was drawn too, really curious.

80
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,599
Speaker 2: About, so I really spent more time.

81
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,760
Speaker 4: I would say as I became, you know, a bit

82
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 4: more comfortable with my career my skill sets, to say, hey,

83
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,040
Speaker 4: I can take the skills that I have as a

84
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,440
Speaker 4: product manager even though I've only ever worked at big banks,

85
00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 4: and turned that into a career in tech. So I

86
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 4: would say that, you know, my my pathway from graduating

87
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 4: school in twenty seventeen to today has been very serendipitous.

88
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 4: I've leaned very heavily on my network and really just

89
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 4: kind of putting myself out there for opportunities and to

90
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 4: the question around, you know, how I've known when to

91
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,760
Speaker 4: make these strategic jumps. Honestly, it's been like a gut feeling, right,

92
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 4: And we can definitely talk more about this, But I

93
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 4: think for me, even as a young black woman, very

94
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 4: rarely was I ever encouraged to leave a job.

95
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 2: Right.

96
00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,599
Speaker 4: I left my first job in twenty nineteen. I was

97
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,599
Speaker 4: like twenty four years old, right, So I remember having

98
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 4: bosses be like, like, oh my gosh, are you sure

99
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,280
Speaker 4: you want to do this? Right? Very much at a

100
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,839
Speaker 4: lot of that, you know, a lot of that language

101
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,600
Speaker 4: around kind of almost like kind of wanting to shame

102
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 4: me for wanting to make these kind of decisions.

103
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 3: This go ahead, okay, young blood, go ahead, you're gonna leave,

104
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 3: You'll come back?

105
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 2: Literally?

106
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,920
Speaker 4: No, literally literally that I feel like that was definitely

107
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,880
Speaker 4: that was definitely the energy. But I think for me,

108
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 4: especially around twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, when I first started

109
00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 4: to learn about financial freedom and the Fire movement, I

110
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,039
Speaker 4: really saw myself being someone that could take advantage of

111
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,080
Speaker 4: that lifestyle of being able to grow my income keep

112
00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 4: my expenses relatively the same.

113
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: So how was I going to do that?

114
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,839
Speaker 4: I had to make more money, So that meant having

115
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,880
Speaker 4: to make some of those quote unquote calculated risks to say,

116
00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 4: m maybe I need to go somewhere else to make

117
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,160
Speaker 4: more money to build my skill set. And that's kind

118
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,479
Speaker 4: of the energy that I've taken with me for the

119
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,560
Speaker 4: past four and a half five years.

120
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what did you study in college? And you

121
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 3: said you went to grad school, what did you study?

122
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 2: So in college I studied Africana studies. I loved it.

123
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,919
Speaker 4: I absolutely loved it, but there was definitely no immediate

124
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,720
Speaker 4: professional ROI right, It's like most of my most of

125
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,600
Speaker 4: my peers who major in Africana studies are you know,

126
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,359
Speaker 4: obtaining PhDs right now.

127
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,960
Speaker 3: Or or work academics. They want to teach them and

128
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 3: be in academia forever.

129
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:49,599
Speaker 2: Literally.

130
00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,919
Speaker 4: I feel like most of my peers went like the

131
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,479
Speaker 4: Melan maze academia academia away, and then a few of

132
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,200
Speaker 4: us kind of went into more like social justice nonprofit work.

133
00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 2: I think I'm probably the only.

134
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 4: Person from my class that actually ended up pivoting working

135
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,720
Speaker 4: in corporate and definitely today working in tech and then

136
00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 4: graduate school.

137
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,520
Speaker 2: Actually did a one year master's my Masters of Sciences

138
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 2: and Business Management, so kind.

139
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:12,800
Speaker 4: Of gave me more of that business acumen, more of

140
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 4: those practical skills, and I think more of that confidence

141
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,360
Speaker 4: to say, you know, I spent four years in undergrad

142
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 4: kind of shying away from you know, more quant heavy subjects.

143
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 2: Right.

144
00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 4: I was an Africata sci major, So I think that

145
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 4: master's program really kind of gave me that confidence to say, hey, yeah,

146
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 4: I can do excel. I can you know I can

147
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 4: read financial charts, which I think really helped me pivot

148
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 4: and land at an American Express as my first job.

149
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's wonderful because a lot of people,

150
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I do a lot of career coaching, and

151
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 3: a lot of women maybe they study something and they

152
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,000
Speaker 3: or they have experience in a certain field and they

153
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 3: want to pivot into a new one. So for sure,

154
00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 3: I mean, talk to me about the interview process. When

155
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 3: with you with your Africana studies background. Did you go

156
00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,400
Speaker 3: back to get your MBA because you were struggling to

157
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:56,440
Speaker 3: find work or was that just part of the plan.

158
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,559
Speaker 3: You know, this will help me as I interview yeah.

159
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 4: So, well, when I was a senior in college, I

160
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 4: had no idea what I wanted to do professionally. Right,

161
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 4: I went to this really great school, I went to Barnard.

162
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 4: I was at this really great school, but had no

163
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 4: job offer, And so senior fall I really started to think, Okay,

164
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 4: I have two choices, right, I can either try really

165
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,440
Speaker 4: hard to convince an interview or on the other side

166
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 4: that this Africana studies degree can help me work in

167
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 4: a more business aligned job.

168
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:30,600
Speaker 2: Or I can.

169
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,920
Speaker 4: See, hey, there are a lot of At that time,

170
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,680
Speaker 4: there were a lot of these programs kind of popping

171
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,200
Speaker 4: up at Duke wake Forest and other kind of business schools,

172
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 4: kind of giving people like me non traditional backgrounds, lower

173
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 4: arts backgrounds, and opportunity to break sort of speak, break

174
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 4: into more business focus fields.

175
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 2: So that's actually what I ended up doing. I ended

176
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:51,560
Speaker 2: up taking.

177
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,680
Speaker 4: I ended up deciding to get my master's right out

178
00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,800
Speaker 4: of undergrad one because it was fully funded, right, So

179
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 4: I served a full ride fellowship and then too because

180
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:05,160
Speaker 4: to your point, I really did struggle, I guess kind

181
00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 4: of telling my story really to the point where I

182
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,440
Speaker 4: could land offers. Right, So I did a lot of

183
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,679
Speaker 4: interviewing I was interviewing for a lot of rotational associate

184
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 4: programs at that time because I felt like I had

185
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 4: a lot of skills and didn't really see myself narrowly

186
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 4: fitting into one right now, in hindsight, I wish someone

187
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 4: would have told me, hey, you could be a product manager,

188
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 4: but that was never something that I even knew about.

189
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,840
Speaker 4: Right So that's why I decided to get my master's.

190
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 4: It was fully funded. It gave me an opportunity to

191
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 4: be a student again, something I'm really good at. I'm

192
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,800
Speaker 4: really good at rechurch regurgitating information. But it also gave

193
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,079
Speaker 4: me a chance to kind of like have another year

194
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,640
Speaker 4: to kind of figure things out and and be in

195
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,520
Speaker 4: that position where, hey, jobs are coming to me, you know,

196
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,960
Speaker 4: recruiters are looking for me. I'm a student, which which

197
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 4: really helped me in terms of my interview process. I

198
00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,199
Speaker 4: casted a really wide net. My master's program was done

199
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 4: at WAKE four, so I was in Winston Sdale and

200
00:09:58,920 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 4: North Carolina.

201
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,320
Speaker 2: I did not love it down there, so I was.

202
00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:07,320
Speaker 4: Pretty much putting out increes connections my resume to as

203
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 4: many companies in the New York area as I could,

204
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,720
Speaker 4: and how I had landed up at AMX was actually

205
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 4: through networking. I met a lot of different people across AMMEX,

206
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 4: but one person in particular, we really built a really

207
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,760
Speaker 4: great relationship, and it just so happened around the time

208
00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,079
Speaker 4: that I was about to graduate from my master's program.

209
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 4: I really needed a job. She made her own personal

210
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 4: decision to leave AMEX and to leave New York City,

211
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,679
Speaker 4: and she recommended me for her job. So that is

212
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,720
Speaker 4: literally how I ended up on a product management team,

213
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 4: on a high profile product management team at American Express.

214
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,679
Speaker 4: Is my first job by networking, hustling, building relationships and

215
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 4: a little bit of.

216
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 3: Luck, yeah, I mean, and thank you for giving a

217
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 3: shout out to Lady Luck, because it is a piece

218
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 3: of it. I mean, it's also open. It's also kind

219
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,839
Speaker 3: of approaching your career in a way that you leave

220
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,239
Speaker 3: room for luck, and you leave room for that uncertainty,

221
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 3: which if you're someone who like obsessed with doing things

222
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,560
Speaker 3: on a certain schedule, it's very uncomfortable for you. But

223
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,280
Speaker 3: it's it's hard to articulate that too. That you have

224
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 3: to put your best foot forward, like you said, the

225
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 3: build those relationships, but then you got to wait for

226
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 3: an opportunity, right, and a little bit of is luck

227
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 3: and how wonderful that someone was able to kind of

228
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 3: put you in that position for success. Now I'm sure

229
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 3: that she recommended you, but she still had to interview

230
00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 3: for the job right and get in the door. So

231
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 3: I mean, congrats to you for that. When you so

232
00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,920
Speaker 3: going from kind of liberal arts to sitting down at

233
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 3: a financial services company, what was that transition like?

234
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 4: So I will I will say I think that one

235
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,200
Speaker 4: year and my master's program really set me up well

236
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 4: for success.

237
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 2: Now I will say I'm an overachiever.

238
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,720
Speaker 4: So I was that person even in this really intense,

239
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 4: you know, master's program that I always pushed myself for

240
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 4: more So I end up graduating the top of my

241
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 4: class for my master's program, was inducted into Beta Gama Sigma,

242
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,040
Speaker 4: which is a business honors society.

243
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,520
Speaker 2: So I my studies really seriously.

244
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,880
Speaker 4: I really took that year really seriously to learn and

245
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,319
Speaker 4: absorb as much as I could. And I think as

246
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 4: a result, when I got to financial services, got to

247
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 4: AMES and here I was doing analytics.

248
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,880
Speaker 2: Right, I was in Excel. I was you know, having to.

249
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 4: Create really educating create stories for my team around the

250
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 4: data that was coming back from our car members Like

251
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 4: It was kind of easy, right, because I'd spent this

252
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,760
Speaker 4: year really really trying to build up these skills that

253
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,400
Speaker 4: I felt like I didn't really have a chance to

254
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,640
Speaker 4: practice an undergrad And I think as a result, I

255
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 4: think that that's why I was really successful at AMES.

256
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 4: I think one being really sad for success, but I

257
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 4: was also extremely lucky to land on a team where

258
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,560
Speaker 4: I had really strong leaders and women leaders who really

259
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,160
Speaker 4: were invested in me being successful, right, who mentored me

260
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 4: and said, yeah, I know, this is your first corporate job,

261
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 4: and this is how you can do things right.

262
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,240
Speaker 2: This is the brand and.

263
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,600
Speaker 4: The culture at AMEX, and this is how you can

264
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 4: show up and show your best self right, And that

265
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 4: really helped me. Right, Even as I think about my

266
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,200
Speaker 4: experience as a young black professional at AMES and the

267
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,240
Speaker 4: short amount of time that I was there, I think

268
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,360
Speaker 4: I was able to get promotions and have really high

269
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:18,280
Speaker 4: profile opportunities because I had such strong leadership and strong

270
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,760
Speaker 4: mentorship and sponsorship. Right that, as I looked at some

271
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 4: of my other peers, who were just as intelligent as me,

272
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,200
Speaker 4: just as capable as me, not having those pieces, especially

273
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 4: in a corporate culture like AMEX, I think kind of

274
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 4: kept them from I think getting some of the markers

275
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 4: of achievement and success that I think.

276
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 2: That they were really owed.

277
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,600
Speaker 4: So I would say the transition wasn't it wasn't too tough,

278
00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,080
Speaker 4: but there was definitely a learning curve, as there is

279
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 4: any time you join a new organization.

280
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, a couple of things I want to talk go

281
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 3: back to you really quick. You mentioned a fellowship that

282
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 3: got you a full ride scholarship or how did you

283
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 3: How did you find that opportunity to get your degree

284
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,320
Speaker 3: paid for? Because I think that's important for listeners to

285
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,960
Speaker 3: maybe get a tip from that.

286
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

287
00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 4: So the tip from that is put yourself out there

288
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 4: for any and all opportunities. So, I mean the opportunity

289
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,320
Speaker 4: that allowed me to get a full ride fellowship to

290
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,959
Speaker 4: get my master's program actually goes back to even when

291
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 4: I was applying to colleges in high school. I was

292
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 4: that girl that went to the library, got a scholarship book,

293
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 4: knew my parents could not afford to send me to college,

294
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 4: and just applied to everything that I was eligible for.

295
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,160
Speaker 4: One of those things was being a part of the

296
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,640
Speaker 4: rom Brown scholars Network. Now I was not a rom

297
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 4: Brown scholar. I did not receive all of the money,

298
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 4: but I was a part of their network and took

299
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,960
Speaker 4: advantage of all the opportunities that they would send to

300
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 4: students in the network.

301
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 2: Right.

302
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 4: So I ended up getting an internship one year in

303
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 4: college through that network, and they were also partnering with

304
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 4: the wake Forest School of Business to promote this new

305
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,040
Speaker 4: program and promote the fellowship. So when I saw that

306
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:53,920
Speaker 4: it's like free ride, y'all gonna pay for my room

307
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,840
Speaker 4: and board and I can get a master's Oh yeah, okay,

308
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 4: I'm going to do this.

309
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 2: So that's what I did.

310
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 4: And I I had the delusional confidence that I was exact,

311
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 4: I was going to be picked right like. I went

312
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 4: into my interview saying, when I am a corporate fellow

313
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 4: for this program, these are the people I want to

314
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 4: sponsor me, right like. And I think that confidence and

315
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,320
Speaker 4: I think my my persistence, I think is what helped

316
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 4: me get that. Right So, I think the tip there

317
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 4: is anytime you see an opportunity, don't be afraid to

318
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,800
Speaker 4: go for it. Right. I think, especially as women, as

319
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,840
Speaker 4: women of color, especially as Black women, we receive so

320
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,160
Speaker 4: many messages that tell us we're not worthy enough, we're

321
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 4: not capable enough. But I think I've always kind of

322
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,240
Speaker 4: kept with myself that, hey, if I see something that's

323
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 4: that's out there that speaks to me, I'm going to

324
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,320
Speaker 4: put myself out there because I never know what can

325
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,960
Speaker 4: come out of it. Right, My seventeen year old self

326
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 4: set my twenty one, twenty two, and now twenty seven

327
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 4: year old self up for so much success, and she

328
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 4: didn't even know it back then.

329
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 3: Oh, baby, Sania, thanks baby, said to her, all right,

330
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 3: another thing that I was thinking, Well, you were speaking about,

331
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 3: you know, you being and thank you for pointing out

332
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 3: the importance of those relationships and having sponsorship and actually

333
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 3: putting your best foot forward to build those relationships and

334
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 3: not necessarily being the person. You get a job and

335
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 3: you come then and you just think you're going to

336
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 3: quietly sit in your cubicle and that someone will just

337
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 3: tap you on the shoulder and say you you, we've

338
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 3: noticed you. That's not how it happens. Building relationships is

339
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 3: so important and getting that sponsorship did that make it?

340
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 3: And this is I'm going to ask you this question.

341
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 3: And the reason I'm asking it is because I think

342
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 3: you and I both agree that when you quit jobs,

343
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 3: there is that perception that you know or You're often

344
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 3: told be grateful, be loyal. People took a chance on you,

345
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 3: and you had people who were going to bat for

346
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 3: you within your company at AMEX. So but you still

347
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 3: left and I love that. So talk to me about

348
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 3: your decision around leaving and why, when, what all that stuff.

349
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so let me set the scene for you. So,

350
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,960
Speaker 4: my decision to leave AMEX the very first company I

351
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 4: ever worked at, and to your point, where I had

352
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 4: a lot of brand equity, right, not just on my

353
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,440
Speaker 4: immediate team, but I had leaders across the company who

354
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 4: knew me, believed in me, were putting.

355
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 2: Me in a position to win.

356
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 4: I think it's it started to conflict with my holistic

357
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 4: vision of what I had for myself, and that was

358
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,200
Speaker 4: to become more financially sound.

359
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,480
Speaker 2: That was to start building wealth.

360
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,919
Speaker 4: That was to have more money so that I could

361
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 4: get over some of the financial challenges that I felt

362
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 4: like I was kind of in. Right, So twenty eighteen,

363
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 4: I've now had spent a year working full time, and

364
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 4: I was fucking my money up, right. I was that

365
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 4: girl that was just kind of like, yeah, it's okay,

366
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,480
Speaker 4: I have my first set of credit cards.

367
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,040
Speaker 2: I'm just online, you know. Yeah, I was bretting really hard.

368
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 2: I was ubering really hard at these were the days

369
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,040
Speaker 2: of uberpool. Oo oh my gosh.

370
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 4: Right, So I was having a good time, right, I

371
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 4: was having a great time in New York. I would argue,

372
00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 4: as you should have done, but yeah, yeah, definitely, And

373
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 4: I don't regret those times at all. But as a result, right,

374
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,479
Speaker 4: not having any type of financial acumen when it came

375
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 4: to money management, I put myself into a lot of debt,

376
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 4: and it was debt that I couldn't afford to pay.

377
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 4: When I kind of looked back at and those times,

378
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,960
Speaker 4: it was like, I have this decent salary, I have

379
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 4: a great salary as a single woman in New York,

380
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,320
Speaker 4: but I have nothing to show for it. I don't

381
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,200
Speaker 4: have any savings. Now, I have all this debt that

382
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 4: I put myself into. I don't have anyone I can

383
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 4: go to and be like, oh mom and dad, can

384
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,960
Speaker 4: you send me a small loan of ten thousand dollars

385
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,120
Speaker 4: to pay off these credit cards? Like it just wasn't

386
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 4: It wasn't a thing, right, So that was a big

387
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 4: wake up call for me, Right, Yeah, that was a

388
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 4: big wake up call for me.

389
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 3: It was about ten thousand dollars of credit card debt.

390
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had.

391
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 4: I one summer I put myself in ten thousand dollars

392
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,080
Speaker 4: a credit card debt.

393
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,439
Speaker 3: So, wow, tell you girl, was living really good? Did

394
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:45,199
Speaker 3: you take a vacation.

395
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: I was traveling, I was seeing out.

396
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 4: I was going to Polo Classic, buying one hundred dollars

397
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:52,119
Speaker 4: bottles of Bilfleco.

398
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 2: Like I was living. Okay, I was living.

399
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,600
Speaker 4: I was living right, I can say that now, but

400
00:18:58,680 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 4: I mean in the moment, I had a lot of

401
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 4: aim around it, right, like I had a lot of

402
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 4: shame around around my money.

403
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 2: Mistake.

404
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 3: You were tender swindling yourself pretty much. But then Whinler

405
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 3: that summer. Wait, so what was your salary at AMEX though?

406
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 4: So when I around this time, I was making seventy

407
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 4: two thousand dollars.

408
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 3: That's not jabby at all for your first gig out

409
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 3: of college. I was making at all. Well, you got

410
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: about I got about eight years on you. But yeah,

411
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 3: I came into I came to Manhattan making forty five k.

412
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,479
Speaker 3: But my problem was I had it. I'm from Georgia,

413
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,679
Speaker 3: and I had a Georgian mentality about salary. So I

414
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 3: thought forty five k I was like maybe I made it.

415
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,719
Speaker 3: I'm here. Uh but now don't worry my, my, My

416
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 3: expectations are definitely on the New York level. Now, all right,

417
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 3: ba fam, let's take a quick break. This is brown ambition,

418
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 3: all right, ba fam, we are back. All right, So

419
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 3: you had this debt, you were still making a decent salary.

420
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 3: But was the was your career move purely about Okay,

421
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 3: I'm going to increase my earnings and I can't get

422
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 3: it quickly enough here at am I, So I'm gonna

423
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 3: have to go somewhere else.

424
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: That's exactly it. Right.

425
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 4: So I got a little sidetracked when I was telling

426
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 4: you the story, right, I wanted to set the scene though, Right,

427
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 4: So twenty eighteen, I put myself into all this debt.

428
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 4: Twenty nineteen, I end up getting connected with the financial advisor.

429
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 4: I start learning about fire, I start following all these

430
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 4: personal finance accounts on Instagram. I'm just like, oh wow,

431
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 4: I can do this, Like, okay, let me start to

432
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 4: kind of figure out, like what does it mean to

433
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 4: live on a budget?

434
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 2: Okay, this is not so hard.

435
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 4: Okay, I actually have more money at my disposal that

436
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 4: I could be putting towards like my future self, but

437
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 4: I've been overspending so much that I don't even see

438
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 4: that it's there. Right, So this is kind of twenty nineteen.

439
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 4: I spent that year really kind of learning a lot

440
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 4: about my own spending habits, triggers, traumas, and also learning

441
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 4: about future state where do I want to be? And

442
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 4: at this time, I'm like, Okay, I was promoted at AMX,

443
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 4: so now I'm a manager. I ended up getting a

444
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 4: parity raise. So at this point I'm making actually right

445
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 4: under six figures. I'm making around ninety nine thousand dollars,

446
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 4: still have a lot of discpolsal income, and I'm like, Okay,

447
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 4: this is great.

448
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 2: I really want to become debt free.

449
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 4: So in addition to like the credit card debt that

450
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 4: I mentioned, I also did have some student loan debt

451
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 4: from from my years in school, right that I was

452
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 4: kind of like, this isn't like a super big deal,

453
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 4: but for me, I'm an overachiever. I want to become

454
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 4: debt free, like I want to be able to have

455
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 4: that major bump to my net worth growth. So this

456
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,719
Speaker 4: is twenty nineteen and now twenty twenties approaching. Obviously had

457
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 4: no idea what was around the corner. But at the

458
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 4: beginning of twenty twenty, I'm like, Okay, I want to

459
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 4: set a really ambitious goal for myself of paying off

460
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 4: all of my debt in one year.

461
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,479
Speaker 2: I'd spent a year working on a budget.

462
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 4: I feel like I can do this twenty three thousand

463
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 4: dollars in one year on my salary. It's going to

464
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 4: be a stretch. I'm actually probably short some so I

465
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 4: need to make more money. You know, I'm doing great

466
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 4: work at AMS. I'm working on all these strategic projects.

467
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 4: I just got promoted in a year that almost never happened.

468
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,679
Speaker 4: And then I'm having these conversations with my leaders and

469
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 4: I'm just like, yeah, so, like, let's talk about career progression,

470
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 4: Like what is it going to take for me to

471
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 4: get to senior manager that's the next level on AMEX.

472
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 4: It was just kind of all like, oh, yeah, you know, yeah,

473
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 4: we just promoted you a year ago.

474
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: Oh well ah.

475
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 4: But I think also the writing was on the wall,

476
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: right that I could see other professionals, even on my team, right,

477
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 4: who had kind of matriculated even before me, that they

478
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 4: were not being hunted down for promotions, right. So I

479
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,479
Speaker 4: also had this sense my own self awareness to say, Sis,

480
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,120
Speaker 4: the longer that you stay here, the longer.

481
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: These people are going to pay with your money.

482
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 4: Right, Like, it's like all of those things that you

483
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 4: were talking about in terms of this idea about loyalty,

484
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 4: this idea around like paying your dues, this idea of oh,

485
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 4: we need to make sure that the people who are

486
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: more senior get their chance, right, headcount can only go

487
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 4: so far. All of those things were embedded into the

488
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 4: culture at AMEX, and I just kind of realized, like,

489
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 4: I want to make more money, not just for money's sake,

490
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 4: but because I want to become debt free because I

491
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 4: know that I now feel like I had the skills

492
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 4: to be able to put this money to good use

493
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 4: for my future self. And also I just feel like

494
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 4: it's time, Right I'd spent three and a half years

495
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 4: at AMEX, I felt like there's more out there again

496
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 4: leaned on networks, right. So I ended up actually landing

497
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 4: my next job at MasterCard through a connection that I

498
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 4: had at Columbia. I went to Columbia for undergrad a

499
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 4: fellow alum her team was hiring. They were looking for

500
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 4: someone with my expertise, a product manager, ideally a woman

501
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 4: of color who had my financial services background, I interviewed.

502
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: The interview process was really smooth, and literally got my

503
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: offer a week before New York City went into shutdown.

504
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 4: So I like to say that I was one of

505
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 4: the first people to create the exodus that has now

506
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 4: happened at AMEX, especially amongst professionals of color. I was

507
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 4: probably one of the very first people to leave AMEX

508
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 4: and the pandemic because I ended up putting my two

509
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 4: weeks in right at the end of March twenty twenty.

510
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 4: And for me, it wasn't just again, it wasn't just

511
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 4: purely about the money piece, right. I knew I was

512
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: leaving behind all these great relationships, but it was also

513
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 4: just like I had this gut feeling that I wanted

514
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 4: to do something else. And you know, I feel like

515
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: I'd heard this idea all the time, Right, you have

516
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 4: to be the driver of your own career, you have

517
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 4: to be in the driver's seat, And I just felt

518
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 4: this urge to say, this is.

519
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 2: A calculated risk.

520
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 4: Right, I'm going to another big financial services company that's

521
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 4: going to pay me more, that's going to give me

522
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 4: a chance to also develop my skills as a product manager.

523
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 4: What do I have to lose, right, and it was

524
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 4: definitely the best decision I made for myself.

525
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 3: Can I just mention too that a lot of times

526
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 3: we put too much I think a lot of especially women,

527
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 3: put way too much value in the stability of a

528
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: job itself and how a job is stable and you know,

529
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 3: and not recognizing that you are your own stability at

530
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: the end of the day. Like even with you, Sania,

531
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 3: you're the fact that you have an MBA, the fact

532
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 3: or you have a business administration, a masters in that

533
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 3: you have this college network, you've done so well in

534
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: you know your school, You've built relationships professionally, Like that

535
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: is resiliency at the end of the day. Is it

536
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: a risk take a new job? Sure, but also no,

537
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 3: because you can get laid off and I'm sure you'd

538
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: bounce right back off, bounce right back because you have,

539
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: you know, this foundation of success yourself. Now I want

540
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 3: to ask you what was the pay jump, because I

541
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: love I feel like any anytime we can like share

542
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: how much of a jump we made by quitting, it's

543
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 3: powerful because I mean, in my experience, maybe you can

544
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 3: agree with me, we'll see. But the biggest pay raise

545
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 3: is come when you.

546
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 4: Are ready to leave and move to an absolutany I

547
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 4: totally agree with that, Mandy. Yeah, so when I left Amex,

548
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: I was making just under one hundred thousand dollars, I

549
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 4: was making around like ninety nine thousand some change. By

550
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 4: joining MasterCard on the team that I was on again

551
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 4: also being a product manager, which is seen as more technical,

552
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 4: therefore more strategic and worth more, I increase my base

553
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 4: salary by thirty two thousand dollars, and then when I

554
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 4: kind of throw in the fact that I also got

555
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: a bonus at the end of that year, in total,

556
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 4: I ended up earning an additional fifty thousand dollars by

557
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: leaving Nice.

558
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: So when you negotiated a new offer MasterCard, what was

559
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: that experience like? Now, did you have to fight for

560
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 3: that thirty two and was there any talk of signing

561
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 3: bonus equity other incentives that you know you were able

562
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 3: to ask for.

563
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, So when I negotiated my offer at Mastercred, I

564
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 4: was I'm very happy to say that I had a

565
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 4: recruiter who was very direct, very transparent, so it wasn't

566
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 4: a hard negotiation at all. I pretty much just asked

567
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 4: for what I want. I think the initial offer was

568
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 4: maybe like eight or ten thousand dollars short of the

569
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 4: number that I actually ended up landing on, So that

570
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 4: came from negotiating. And I think I was also able

571
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 4: to negotiate a sign on because you know my thing,

572
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 4: Because I have also been pretty fortunate to kind of

573
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 4: always leave jobs right before bonuses are paid out. I

574
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 4: always use that as an opportunity to negotiate for more

575
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 4: cash in my pocket. So I think I ended up

576
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: leaving AMEX right before my bonus was paid out and

577
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 4: kind of used that number to say, Hey, MasterCard, I

578
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 4: really want to sign this offer, but I need this

579
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 4: money right So, and that's actually the same tactic that

580
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: I used again when I now join my current employer

581
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 4: in tech, to say, Hey, if I leave MasterCard, I'm

582
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 4: leaving behind twenty nine thousand dollars. What can you guys

583
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: do to bring this in the offer? And that's how

584
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: I was able to negotiate in this current job a

585
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 4: twenty nine thousand dollars sign on bonus that was not

586
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 4: even on the table initially, right. So for me negotiating,

587
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 4: I've always been like, really stern on just getting my

588
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 4: base salary up, Like I haven't really negotiated for other

589
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 4: perks like PTO DA's and things like that. I've kind

590
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 4: of always just kind of been happy with the packages

591
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: that I've received on that front. But I've always been

592
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 4: trying to just get more cash into my bottom line,

593
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: whether that's through my base or through a sign on bonus.

594
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, hells yes, I mean, I will say it till

595
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm blue in the face. Really sit down and crunch

596
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 3: the numbers on how much money you're leaving on the table.

597
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 3: I love that you mentioned your annual bonus esecially for

598
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: leaving at the beginning of the year, and those bonuses

599
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: don't pay out till March. Don't let that keep you stuck.

600
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: Don't let that came stock that car, or if it's equity,

601
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 3: or even if it's your unvested you know, four one

602
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 3: k matches. Add it all up, baby, and then ask

603
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: for it as a sign on bonus. I love that

604
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: you did that, and it gets easier each time. You know,

605
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 3: the fact that you were the fact that you've even

606
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 3: been able to ask this early in your career should

607
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 3: be inspiring to anyone listening that. And I too was

608
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 3: asking very early in my career and I was hearing no,

609
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 3: or if I was hearing yes, it maybe was a

610
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 3: couple thousand or this or that. It wasn't anything crazy,

611
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 3: but it made me prepared and you will be too

612
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 3: for those days when then you're when you're walking away

613
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: like I have with like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

614
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: you know, signing bonus or equity grant like that's it's

615
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 3: all about practicing and getting the in the habit of asking,

616
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 3: because I will you agree that it's still stressful and

617
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: it's still like do you get nervous when you negotiate?

618
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 4: So do I?

619
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, of course, yeah. I think it's I think

620
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: it's totally normal too.

621
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 4: And I think especially for me, right, I don't I

622
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 4: don't necessarily have so many women in my family to

623
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: kind of lean on and say how should I go

624
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: about this? Right, Like my eldest sister has kind of

625
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 4: worked the same job for fifteen years, and the women

626
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 4: before her, right, my mother and grandmother, they spent their

627
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: entire lifetimes working at the same company. Right, So I

628
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: think for me, I am even a testament of how

629
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: we talk about this all the time, how the new

630
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 4: generation goes about things, how millennials go about things because

631
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 4: I think even the women and my family are so

632
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: inspired by When I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna leave this

633
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 4: company and I'm going to negotiate for more, They're just like, more.

634
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: Power to you, girl.

635
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean true. And I think for our generation too,

636
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: it's almost like we have the we have the benefit

637
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: of having the Internet and having social media and having

638
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: all these I feel like virtual sisters, big sisters who

639
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 3: are kind of showing us another way, and those little

640
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: like nudges and those and even sharing your story, you

641
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: kind of can become that mentor virtual mentor for other

642
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: people to fire them and show them a different way,

643
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: whereas like my mom didn't have an you know when

644
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 3: without social media, you're just kind of closed off to

645
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: whatever's happening in your bubble, you know what I mean.

646
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: So absolutely, I mean I feel like my career coaching clients,

647
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: I've talked to so many women. I'm surprised, honestly how

648
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 3: many women are in their fifties and sixties who are

649
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 3: reaching out to me and they're like, I see what

650
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: y'all are doing. Let's go. Yes, it's not too late,

651
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 3: So I do follow you on the tiki talking and

652
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: I know that you like to travel. Now, I was

653
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: looking at your TikTok and I know one of my

654
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 3: one of my favorite posts. You always post these like

655
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 3: gorgeous you know, scenes of you and I'm beautiful. I

656
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,959
Speaker 3: got to ask where you get your swimwear at because

657
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: you're always looking fly. I guess it's why you go

658
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: buy fly, nanst. I get it. But you tell a

659
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: story on one of your viral tiktoks. How about a

660
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: year and a half into the pandemic October twenty twenty one,

661
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 3: you were suffering from depression and feeling like you were

662
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: in a toxic work environment, and also you were job hunting.

663
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: Can you take me to that time and tell me

664
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 3: what was going on in your career and how you

665
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 3: were able to move through that to your next opportunity.

666
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm happy to talk about it.

667
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 4: I will say September to November twenty twenty one was

668
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 4: probably the hardest, some of the hardest like moments of

669
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 4: my life thus far. Right, so just kind of paid

670
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 4: the picture for you. I had been working at MasterCard

671
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: for about a year and a half.

672
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: And really just started.

673
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 4: To feel like I was not appreciated like I was

674
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 4: not really receiving the development that I wanted to see

675
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 4: in my career. That I was essentially being siloed and stifled.

676
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 4: Whether that was intentional or not, but you know, I

677
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 4: kind of came and expecting one thing about how this

678
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: job was going to look, and by I would say,

679
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 4: by by mid twenty twenty one, it was kind of

680
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 4: clear to me that if I did not take the

681
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 4: reins over my career, I was either going to.

682
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: Get pushed out or worse.

683
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 4: And I think that was kind of like a wake

684
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 4: up call for me. I'd never really experienced that in

685
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 4: my career, so here I was feeling like, one, I

686
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: definitely want a new job, but two, I also want

687
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: more freedom and flexibility. I had spent three months living

688
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 4: remotely intu Loom in twenty twenty one, and that gave

689
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: me such a taste of the lifestyle that I want.

690
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: I am someone who wants to be location independent, who

691
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 4: sees myself living overseas and retiring early overseas. So I

692
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 4: think to have that experience was such an eye opener

693
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 4: for the type of job that I need to be

694
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 4: able to experience that and that kind of sacrifice. And

695
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 4: then at the same time, I was job hunting, which

696
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 4: anyone of us knows it can feel like a second job.

697
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 4: So here, I was dealing with a lot of toxicity

698
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: in my nine to five. That's paying my bills, right.

699
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 4: I don't have the option to quit my job because

700
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 4: I don't want to necessarily rely on my savings. I

701
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: don't necessarily want to put myself under that pressure. But

702
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 4: the same time, job hunting, it took me a lot

703
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 4: longer than I thought.

704
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: Right here, I.

705
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 4: Am a qualified product manager. I have all these great

706
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 4: companies my resume. What's not clicking, Steven right, I was

707
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 4: going on all these interviews.

708
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: I was talking to a lot of great companies.

709
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: I did not receive a single offer when I started

710
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 4: my job hunt in May twenty twenty one too about November,

711
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: did not receive a single offer, And that was really frustrating.

712
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: It was very humbling.

713
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: I knew that I knew that I was suffering room

714
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 4: depression because I couldn't get out of bed. I'd started

715
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: having just like apathy towards all the things I enjoyed doing. Right,

716
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: I wasn't posting as much on Flinance. I was honestly

717
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 4: burnt out right from trying to travel, create work a

718
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 4: nine to five job hunt. It was just was way

719
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: too much on my plate. So kind of what started

720
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 4: to shift for me is one I had to seek

721
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 4: out a new therapist. I just had to get new

722
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 4: help too. I had to change up my career strategy.

723
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: I realized, maybe I can't do this by myself, maybe

724
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 4: I need support, right, So I ended up investing in

725
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 4: a career accelerator called product Gym to really kind of

726
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: help me create a new strategy and build up some

727
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 4: more confidence when it came to interviewing and kind of

728
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 4: telling my story. And then I just had to kind

729
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 4: of keep the ground running, right. I took a break.

730
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: I took like two and a half weeks where I

731
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 4: just didn't do anything. I did not apply to any jobs.

732
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 4: I just was kind of like, let me just do

733
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 4: my job and I'm going to just spend the rest

734
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 4: of the time just resting and focusing on me. And

735
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 4: I came back with a vengeance and then ended up

736
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 4: applying to literally about one hundred and fifty jobs in

737
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 4: a like three week span. One of those jobs ended

738
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 4: up being the job that I have now. So I

739
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 4: ended up receiving my offer in December twenty twenty one,

740
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 4: and you know, I would say that every day it

741
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 4: started to get easier. I think as I started to

742
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 4: really see some real traction in my and my process,

743
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 4: as I started to kind of focus on my mental

744
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: health and really kind of prioritize my own self care,

745
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 4: you know, I started to feel like I could come

746
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 4: out of that depressive state. And then I really did win.

747
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 4: I ended up getting. I mean, offer that I accepted

748
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 4: in the job that I have now was my dream offer.

749
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 4: I know that because I tweeted. I'd like, put out

750
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 4: a tweet saying I am manifesting this. I think I said,

751
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 4: I wanted like one hundred and sixty thousand dollars fully

752
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 4: remote PM job if I'm limited PTO and equity, and

753
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 4: I got that and then some and the offer that

754
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 4: I ended up landing. So WHOA I would say last

755
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 4: year was definitely a not only a test of my

756
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 4: patience and humility, but also a test of my resilience

757
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 4: to say, this too shall pass and it's going to

758
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: get better, and you can rest, but you cannot quit, right,

759
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 4: There's so much more that's out there that you're deserving of.

760
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 4: So let's rest, let's take breaks, but let's keep going, right,

761
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 4: because imagine if I if I you know, if I

762
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 4: had stopped, if I had stopped my progress, I would

763
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 4: have kept myself from all this abundance and.

764
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 2: Success that I have now in this current role.

765
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the majority of the clients who gravitate

766
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: toward me have ended up being women of color in

767
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: the six figure range mid career. And when I tell you,

768
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: and I have to tell them a lot too, is

769
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: it's the most challenging I think when you are at

770
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 3: a certain level in your career to find your next opportunity,

771
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 3: and it takes a lot longer it can because those

772
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 3: opportunities are not they're fewer and further but right, they're

773
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: also a bit more competitive. And at that point, your

774
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 3: standards are higher, so you're not ready. You do have

775
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 3: like you, for example, you wanted something that was fully remote,

776
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: you want a certain salary range. So though you know,

777
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 3: it does take time, and I think even adjusting your

778
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 3: own expectations for how long this journey may take. And

779
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 3: then and there's so many women who I've looked at

780
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 3: on the other end of a you know, a zoom

781
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 3: call during coaching sessions, and I've said, you have got

782
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: to take a break, because even I can feel your

783
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 3: tired energy, your your lethargy, your depression like it's coming

784
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: through and it's hard to sparkle and shine and attract

785
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 3: a new opportunity in an interview when you are carrying

786
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 3: that energy with you. And I think it's a tough

787
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: pill to swallow for a lot of people. But I

788
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 3: love that you recognize that. Okay, I've got to like

789
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 3: take a deep breath, you know, take time, pause, pour

790
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 3: back into yourself so that you could go back fighting.

791
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: You know. Definitely you mentioned a program that you join.

792
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: What was it?

793
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 3: Product Gems? What is Tell me more about that.

794
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, So product Gym is a career accelerator for experience

795
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 4: aspiring or experienced product managers who specifically want to learn

796
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 4: how to land higher paid product manager role.

797
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: So why I ended up landing.

798
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 4: There is because I knew I didn't necessarily need general

799
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 4: career coaching. I knew exactly what I wanted, I knew

800
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 4: exactly where I wanted to be, But I really felt

801
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 4: like there weren't really many resources out there that were

802
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 4: kind of giving me that specific coaching around how do

803
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 4: you win at these product manager interviews, which if anyone

804
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: is out there looking for product manager jobs, you know

805
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 4: that it's its own ethos, it's its own culture as

806
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: it relates to, you know, being able to kind of

807
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: navigate those interview processes. So it was it was a

808
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 4: pretty significant investment, but I think it was a worthwhile

809
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: one because it really gave me the confidence, the clarity,

810
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 4: and that push to say, okay, there's definitely.

811
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: More out here.

812
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 3: How much was it?

813
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: It was six thousand dollars.

814
00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, I've heard worse.

815
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: I know. That's about kind of great.

816
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 3: People may not know. So for those who are listening

817
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 3: and who have heard and seen Sonia and others, especially

818
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: on TikTok, you know, really speaking about the possibilities in

819
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: product management to find for people who are listening, what

820
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: is a product manager? And then you mentioned the particulars

821
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: of the interview process. Any tips that you can share

822
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 3: for how to navigate that or what maybe there are

823
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: what's different about applying for those PM roles?

824
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, in a nutshell, a product manager

825
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 4: is really that person that's thinking about an end to

826
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: end customer experience and building the best experience.

827
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: For their subset of users.

828
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,479
Speaker 4: So as a product manager, you could be owning any

829
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 4: type of products.

830
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: Right.

831
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 4: Product does not just have to be a physical item.

832
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 4: It could be a software, it could be an app,

833
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 4: it could be a digital platform.

834
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 2: Right.

835
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 4: So as a product manager, I have worked on financial products, right,

836
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 4: like credit cards. That was the very first product that

837
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 4: I owned at AMEX. I own the American Express Gold card.

838
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 4: So what that meant is every step of that customer

839
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 4: journey from someone applying for this car, through using it

840
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 4: and even as they consider closing that account. Right, As

841
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: a product manager, I was thinking about all the steps

842
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 4: in that process deliver the best customer experience. I would

843
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 4: say when it comes to interviewing for product management jobs,

844
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: especially if you don't have that true PM experience, I

845
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: think think about any time that you have been able

846
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: to either create something from scratch or significantly improve a process,

847
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 4: and what were those outcomes. That's what a product manager

848
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 4: is doing. So, whether you've worked in a classroom, you've

849
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: worked in healthcare, you worked in social services, you worked

850
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 4: in other types of business, I think we all can

851
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 4: think about those moments where we've said, hey, there's something

852
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: really wrong with this process. Here's how I would improve it.

853
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: Here's how I'm going to improve it, and here are

854
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 4: the outcomes. I think the more that you have those

855
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 4: examples to be able to speak to even if you

856
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 4: don't have this quote unquote PM true experience, I think

857
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 4: that's what many of the hiring managers that are ying

858
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 4: for product managers are looking for. Can you really kind

859
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 4: of dig your hands into something that might be complex

860
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: or it might be kind of broken, offer new solutions

861
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 4: and then be able to create a new path forward.

862
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: Do they commonly give you those like case studies, like

863
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: here's a situation, you know what would you I've seen them?

864
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I would say as a product manager, you

865
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 4: can be very on the technical side, and I think

866
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 4: especially as you think about some especially as you kind

867
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 4: of look at more tech companies, you might have more

868
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: case studies or more product exercises. But there are plenty

869
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 4: of business focused teams that need product managers where your

870
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 4: interview process might just be behavioral. It might just be

871
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: tell me about a time when it might just be hey,

872
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 4: our clients are XYZ. How would you approach the scenario

873
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 4: right where you don't necessarily have to be able to

874
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 4: create or build something from scratch. You don't have to

875
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 4: be able to explain code, but can you explain how

876
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 4: you would approach a situation and how you would bring

877
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 4: your skills to the situation. There are plenty of business

878
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 4: product managers that don't code, that don't have technical backgrounds. Right,

879
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 4: You've heard a lot about my experience. I don't have

880
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 4: any certificates. I'm not PMP certified. I don't have any

881
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 4: of those, you know, more technical certifications or qualifications. But

882
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: I've built things, right, I can talk about the things

883
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: that I've built. I can talk about how I think

884
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 4: about approaching you know, new or difficult situations. And I

885
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 4: think that's what's kind of kept me going on this

886
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: process and what's made me stand out even in interview processes.

887
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and do you have a particular opinion about the

888
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: whole PMP certification. I can't tell you how many people

889
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 3: I've seen considering it while they're kind of throwing everything

890
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 3: at the wall in terms of pivoting into a different career.

891
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, My short opinion is that I think they can

892
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 4: be very fruitful if they are aligned with the jobs

893
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 4: that you actually want. Right, So, if you are looking

894
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 4: for job descriptions that are not mentioning PMP, they're not

895
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 4: mentioning any certifications you don't necessarily want to be a

896
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 4: technical product owner, for example, then it may not be

897
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 4: worth your time, Right, it might be it might be

898
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 4: better to invest that time in learning how to interview

899
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: with confidence, learning how to brand yourself, spending time connecting

900
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: with other product managers. Right, because as you've just heard

901
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 4: my first you know, four years I spent as a

902
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 4: product manager have come through me just having relationships with

903
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 4: people who are inside companies looking to hire.

904
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: Right.

905
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 4: So if I had spent so much more time thinking about,

906
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 4: oh I don't have these certificates, I might have missed

907
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 4: out on the opportunity to build relationships, build connections with

908
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 4: people who could have just gotten me right into an

909
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 4: interview process.

910
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you mentioned branding, and I love talking about

911
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: professional branding for you and I and you went through

912
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 3: the product gems course or what was it like a

913
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 3: program curriculum accelerator? You said, right, what were some of

914
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: the turning points for you you think in your interview strategy,

915
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,839
Speaker 3: because it sounds to me like that was Will you

916
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 3: tell me, you know, what was it that finally broke

917
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: for you where you were finally kind of hitting those callbacks?

918
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 3: To interviews and eventually getting your you know, your job offer.

919
00:42:58,200 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was.

920
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 4: I think was there a couple of things. I think

921
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 4: one of mindset shift to say, there is such a

922
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 4: high demand, especially right now for product managers.

923
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: Even if I.

924
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 4: Don't get this one job, re rejection is redirection, right,

925
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 4: I'm gonna land somewhere else, right that there's just so

926
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 4: much out here. I think two was through Product I'm

927
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 4: really learning to apply at scale, right, So I think

928
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 4: when I was doing it myself, I was trying to

929
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 4: update my resume every time I was applying to jobs,

930
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 4: trying to be super picky about what I applied to.

931
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 4: And I really learned through their curriculum how to apply

932
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: at scale so that I could put out twenty five

933
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 4: applications a day, right, which meant I was getting a

934
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 4: lot more interviews, right, instead of kind of focusing in

935
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 4: on these like five or so, I was spending all

936
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 4: this time focusing on a handful.

937
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: I'm going to focus on twenty.

938
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 4: Five fifty seventy five a week, right, which means I

939
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 4: have more interviews, more opportunities to land and offer. And

940
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 4: I think the last thing was really even as someone

941
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 4: like me who was an experienced PM, I really had to,

942
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 4: I think, redefine and ref I guess my skills so

943
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 4: that I was also rising to the top of when

944
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 4: recruiters were looking for product managers, especially online like LinkedIn right.

945
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 4: So there were things that I didn't even know that

946
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 4: I could do, for example, with my branding online, like

947
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 4: to call out a lot of the skills that I had,

948
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 4: for example and on LinkedIn right, and to really like

949
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 4: crystallize some of the things that I had done and

950
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 4: show results because then, I mean, at the peak of

951
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 4: when I was interviewing, I was probably receiving in mails

952
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 4: from like three to five recruiters a day, right, Like

953
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 4: that's how much my profile was standing out because I'd

954
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 4: made more of these strategic choices around how I talk

955
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 4: about myself, how I show up right, how do I

956
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: just kind of really show any recruiter that's timing for

957
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 4: product managers that yes, I need to be in your

958
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: interview cycle. So those are a lot of things that

959
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 4: I learned through Product Jim that I definitely feel like

960
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 4: I wasn't doing well on my own, and I think

961
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 4: that's what gave me that confidence, That's what kind of

962
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: gave me that momentum again that ultimately helped me land

963
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: the offer that I landed, and you know it. I

964
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 4: will say also as part of partisan curriculum is that, hey,

965
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 4: getting one offer isn't enough, Like it's great to have

966
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 4: multiple offers to be able leverage against. I mean, I

967
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 4: think that's great advice for anyone, right, But I was

968
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 4: pretty happy with the offer that I received, so I

969
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 4: decided not to keep interviewing. But I remember when I

970
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 4: kind of announced, hey, I got this this great offer,

971
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 4: one of the co founders was like, Okay, are you

972
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 4: going to keep interviewing? Like because you don't have to

973
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 4: stop interviewing, you know, like why don't you keep going?

974
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: Right?

975
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 4: But I think for me, I was honestly just kind

976
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 4: of ready to focus on someone else.

977
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 2: I had been at it for a while. Yeah.

978
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also you had the driver of kind of

979
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: being in a situation that you wanted to get out of.

980
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 3: So I mean, there's all the advice in the world,

981
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: but ultimately it's like sitting down with yourself and do

982
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 3: I feel ready and is it right for me? And

983
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: I feel like you can never go wrong, you know,

984
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: when you're doing it for what's right for you. Well, Sonia.

985
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 3: It has been such a pleasure having you on Brown Ambition.

986
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: Thanks for letting me pepper you with questions.

987
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 2: This is such a great interview.

988
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time, and I'm so

989
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 4: glad that we got to spread this message for more

990
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 4: women to hear that. You know, there is no shame

991
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 4: in taking control of your career. There's no shame in

992
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 4: asking for more and getting what you deserve.

993
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 3: Aymen's sister friend. All right, nine to five hotties, thank

994
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: you so much for listening to this interview with Sania.

995
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: Go to fly nanced on ig check her out. Where

996
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 3: else can people find you?

997
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm everywhere.

998
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 4: I'm on ig, TikTok, Twitter, and you can also find

999
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 4: my website flinance dot com. And yeah, I would love

1000
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 4: to know if you heard me on the Brown Ambitious podcast.

1001
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 2: DM me and let me know.

1002
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 3: Maybe find you on a beach somewhere