1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: what is the worst map that you've ever created or had? 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: Do you use m oh man? I don't know. I 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: love to draw maps, and so I feel like all 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: the maps that I've created have been brilliant and places. Yeah, yeah, 8 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: I'm not like a cartographer on the side or anything, 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: but no, I don't I don't feel like I've done 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: anything too crazy. My daughter recently created a map, and um, 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: I was pretty impressed. She had China, the United States 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: is like a blue blob, um, Europe as a yellow blob, 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: and then butterfly Land. But yeah they had little wings. Um. 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I want to say that's the 15 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: worst map, but I don't think it was very practical. Still, 16 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting, and we'll have to think about butterfly 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: Land if we uh as we dive into this podcast, 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: as we talk about brains, our brains and maps and 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: how this map ends up informing the world around us. Um, 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: when I think of bad maps, I've had to use 21 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: probably the worst was when is that Yosemite National Park. 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: There's like just a map that was handed not an 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: official map, it was like handed out like maybe by 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: somebody at the hotel that had to show different locations 25 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: around this little uh town, different trails, and none of 26 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: it was really to scale. So you've got to really 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: warp sense of distance when you tried to go out 28 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: and introverse any of this. I will say, map or 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: hotel maps are pretty bad because they just want to 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: show you the landmarks and they just are like that's 31 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: all that tourists really care about. They'll they'll figure it out. 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: Don't worry about the distances, don't worry about whether it's 33 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: walkable or you need to set aside a day to 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: travel this distance. Just just take our word for it 35 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: that it's there. Yeah, yeah, you'll see it just like 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: on the map. Is huge thing just on the horizon. Um, 37 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: so of course, yes, we're talking about maps today. We're 38 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: talking about how we have our own sort of autobiographical 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: element to maps that we'll talk about and um, we 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: should probably kick this off with allegorical maps. Yes, allegorical 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: maps maps that are not so much of places. I mean, 42 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: they can be of places. But they're they're about much 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: more than that. When when you when you put in 44 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: a location into Google Maps or Apple Maps or whatever 45 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: you're using, generally you're getting a pretty ironed out idea 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 1: of where point A is in relation to point B 47 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: between two physical locations with an allegorical map. Point A 48 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: and point B may not be things that are precisely real. 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: They might be states of mind, states of being. Uh. 50 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: They might one point A might exist in this world, 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: point point B might exist in some mythical other world. Yeah. 52 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this in terms of Dante, 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: particularly when I when I thought back to our previous 54 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: podcast that dealt with the sins and his sort of 55 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: allegorical map of how you are traversing this mountain until 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: you can you know, scale all these different sins and 57 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: wash yourselves of them. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly, with his his 58 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: map of Hell, he relied on a lot of older 59 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 1: maps and models that people have been sort of trying 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: to figure out what the what what a hell might 61 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: look like and mapping that up for some time. Uh. 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: The Purgatory is certainly more of a purely allegorical map 63 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: because it's about it. It's it's more precisely about this 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: journey from a state of of sin, but you know, 65 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: acceptable level of sin through cleanliness up the mountain and 66 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: into heavens. So it's about the journey of the human soul. 67 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: And there's another allegorical map I wanted to mention, and 68 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: this one is called a Road to Success, And apparently 69 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: this was really popular circa nineteen ten. I love this map. 70 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: It is in a book called map Head by Ken Jennings. 71 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: Yes that Ken Jennings, Jeopardy, jeopardy um. And it depicts 72 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: an actual road winding up a mountain in a similar 73 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: way that that Dante considered the landscape. And success is 74 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: depicted as a leer at the very top, but at 75 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: the bottom all these different things you have to go 76 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: through that might prevent you from having success, including boheman 77 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: is bohemianism. At the base of this mountain, it looks 78 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: like a beer garden. Yes, it looks like a fun 79 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: place you might stop in. But his his whole arguments 80 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: you stopped in there, he might never leave, right you might. 81 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean you can't even get up to the you know, 82 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: halfway up the mountain, right, it looks a lot more 83 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: attractive than the pit of illiteracy, the pit of a literacy, 84 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,799 Speaker 1: which feels like tiny figures plumbing and it is dark abyss. 85 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: There's also the mutual admiration society, in which and this 86 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: is what I love, because it really is in the 87 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: spirit of the times. People are telling each other things 88 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: like you'll set the world on fire, You're a wonder 89 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: my boy. Um. So you know you can get caught 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: up in that. But anyway, you go up and up 91 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: and up, and you go through true knowledge. Um. But 92 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: you of course have to traverse lack of preparation until 93 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: you go through the gate of ideals and finally you 94 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: have found success. It should be a board game because 95 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: it reminds me a lot of the game of Life, 96 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: which in in its in its its own sense, it's 97 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: kind of an allegorical map transformed into a board game. Well, 98 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: and that's what I think is interesting about this is 99 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: it is instructional. It is, of course, as you say, 100 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: not going to tell you how to get from you know, 101 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: point A to point B in terms of uh, you know, 102 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: day to day, like how do I just navigate the world, 103 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: But it does tell you in some sense this is 104 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: the direction that you should take here of the pitfalls. 105 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: But of course a lot of people are like thinking, well, 106 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: an allegorical map. Again, this is a map of something 107 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: that is not real. It's a map of something that 108 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: is not a physical location. It doesn't really deal with geography. 109 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: It's dealing with abstract ideas and things that exist only 110 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: in our heads. But the crazy thing is when you 111 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: start looking at maps in our history with maps and 112 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: even our future with maps, that same description applies to 113 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: to even are more hard boiled um maps that deal 114 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: with physical locations, we're still bringing in all of this 115 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: mental junk uh and and laying that out as part 116 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: of the map making process. It's true, Like, think about 117 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: the last time that you just jotted down a quick 118 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: map for someone and gave them directions. As you were 119 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: doing that, and you're saying, here's the gas station on 120 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: the left. Um, you know, there's all these different memories 121 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: that you have flooding your brain about that gas station, 122 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: or here's the school I went to or so on 123 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: and so forth. So you might be putting landmarks on there, 124 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: but it's all informed by your past experience. Yeah, and 125 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: even as you just find yourself like driving around town 126 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: or taking the train to work, Inevitably, you're you're crossing things, 127 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: You're you're passing by things that have some sort of 128 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: significance to yourself, and they start ticking off in the 129 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: in the in the background, you know, you're kind of like, Oh, 130 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: that's the place I had that really good sandwich at 131 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: that time, That's that place where that that spider leapt 132 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: out of my suit. I don't know, whatever the memory 133 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: may be, we can't help build an informal map out 134 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: of those experiences. Yeah, I was thinking about the writer 135 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: Pat Conroy as well. He's a Southern writer in the 136 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: United States, and a lot of his fiction draws upon 137 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: the landscape in the sort of stories it tells, and 138 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: he has a some of my famous quote that says, 139 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: my wound is geography. It's also my anchorage and my 140 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: port of call. So if you think about this map 141 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: is really storytelling, um, it's you know, drawing from our 142 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: experience but also our imagination of what could be. And 143 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: this is probably what we're all trying to get to 144 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,239 Speaker 1: you right now, is you know, the million dollar question, 145 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: what is happening in our brains when we are considering 146 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: maps in terms of our own personal autobiography but also um, 147 00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: just trying to navigate the world. I can. So when 148 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: you think about ben is m is the brain and 149 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: absence of the map. You know what happens when the 150 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: map is is almost entirely internalized. And one of the 151 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: best examples of that, the one one that we've we've 152 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: actually studied scientifically, um, has to do with the London 153 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: cab drivers. Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people out 154 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: there have heard about this, the fact that their hippocampuses 155 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: are larger than non cab drivers in London. But before 156 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: we talk about that a little bit more, I wanted 157 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: to just sort of lay out the landscape of London 158 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 1: for everyone. Um, the streets that comprised the city. They 159 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: sprawl beyond Greater London and they are a tangle of 160 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: ancient streets and people have actually referred to them before 161 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: as a plate of spaghetti. Yeah. This isn't like a 162 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: modern US city where somebody came out, laid out a 163 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: bunch of grid work and said, all right, you're gonna 164 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 1: put streets here, going down, streets here, going across the 165 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: park here, and that's going to be the city. Boom. Yeah, 166 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: this is a place that it's more like sediment city. 167 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: A sediment like over the years, different layers have accumulated, 168 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: and if you walk through London, you're looking over here, 169 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: here's this modern skyscraper that looks like a pickle. Uh, 170 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: Here's here's some ancient Roman ruins. Here's some sort of 171 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: like mid um mid twentieth century sort of communist looking 172 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: building that looks like just an ugly box. And it's 173 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: all just a complete it. It's like history through up 174 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: this city and you have to sort of navigate the 175 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: chunks and have to adjust to debts that is London. 176 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: It's true you have names that change just you know, suddenly, 177 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: and there's not a lot of consistency with with the 178 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: way that the names go and are um going through 179 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: the actual city. And then you have a lack of 180 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: house numbers on some streets that doesn't seem to be 181 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: important to everyone um in every location. And it can 182 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: take a London Cabby two to four years of training 183 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: to master the twenty five thousand streets that dart out 184 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: in the six mile radius from trying cross area all 185 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: the knowledge that's right um. This training is a culmination 186 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 1: and of what they will finally sit down and be 187 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: tested on called as you say, the Knowledge, which I 188 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: love because it just sounds like so mysterious and wonderful, 189 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: like you're about to go through a portal um. But yeah, 190 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: the Knowledge is basically a series of sit down test 191 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: with an examiner who tells the cabby where she or 192 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: he wants to go, and then the cabby has to 193 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: tell the examiner the exact turn by turn route that 194 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: here she will take, including the side of the street 195 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: that the journey begins on. He reminds me a lot 196 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: of Mark Clain's Life on the Mississippi, which I remember 197 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: reading as a child and being dreadfully bored by it 198 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: because it's a lot of Mark Clain talking about being 199 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: on on the Mississippi and and about how one navigates 200 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: the Mississippi. But it's but it was really similar in 201 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: that you had these, uh, these guys that had to 202 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: just memorize, just had to commit to memory all of 203 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: these details of the river and about its depth in 204 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: which and how navigable different portions of the river we're 205 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: going to be at a given time, right, And that's 206 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: actually what all of us are doing all the time. 207 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: But Lendon cab drivers in particular are really paying attention 208 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: to Yes, they're dealing with a very complex street system. 209 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: Like you said, numbers not not aren't necessarily where they 210 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: need to be. You're you're dealing with the with the 211 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: various flow and flux of traffic. And as a result, 212 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: their hippocampus, which is located in the brains temporal lobe 213 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: and is responsible for uh navigating, starts to get bigger 214 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: and bigger. And the more years that they're on the job, 215 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: the bigger the hippocampus. Alright, so most people who have 216 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: a job that involves sitting and might think, well, your 217 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: your rear end might grow over time. The rear end 218 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: of the hippocampus grows over time, swells with this knowledge 219 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: if you will. Yes, it does. But when you retire, 220 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: it shrinks back down to normal. That's the thing. Um So. 221 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: And also this is interesting too when they found when 222 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: they actually did a couple of more follow up tests 223 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: because the hippocampus. It was a two thousand study and 224 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight they did a follow up 225 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: and they found that the hippocampus was really only activated 226 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: at the beginning of a trip, and then other parts 227 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: of the brain started to take over. And there have 228 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: been there have been some studies to that have suggested 229 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 1: that there's a trade off in cognitive talents that as 230 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: a taxi driver becomes more and more equipped to navigate 231 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: this complex road system, there their their other modes of 232 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: memory kind of kind of dim just a little bit, really, 233 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: so the backswells, the front portion shrinks a little Okay, well, 234 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: there you go. UM. I wanted to also talk about 235 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: neurons and how they are influencing the way that we 236 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: actually are able to follow directions. According to Barbara Trusky 237 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: in her article Distortions in Memory for maps, UM, we 238 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: have neurons in our brains that are biased towards horizontal 239 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: and vertical arrangements, which I think is trippy in and 240 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: of itself. In fact, the neurons greatly outnumber the neurons 241 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: that are dedicated to diagonal arrangement. But when you start 242 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: to think about our planet, which is biased on this 243 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: X Y access, it begins to make sense because we 244 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: have really strong verticals in the trees that we see right, 245 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: and then the ground provides a flat horizon, and even 246 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: when you look out, you see the horizon. So it 247 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: makes sense that we evolve to have more neurons that 248 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: would appreciate this X y axis. So yeah, so we're 249 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: more in line with the rook on a on a chessboard, 250 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 1: just up and down, yes, and think right and think 251 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: about those trees. This sort of proto landmarks for for 252 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: all animals really, And then I was reminded of that 253 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: sleight of hand trick that we discussed when we talked 254 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: about the science of magicians, and um, the fact that 255 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: not just magicians use this trick, but pickpocketers also will 256 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: take advantage of the fact that we have this x 257 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: y axis, and they do this by moving their hands 258 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: uh in an arc rather than horizontally. And the reason 259 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: for that is that we have cicades and these are 260 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: the fast just movements in the human body, and it 261 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: occurs in our eyes right, and they automatically move their 262 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: gaze to the endpoint um of what they think is 263 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: going to happen. So if you were to move your 264 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: hand horizontally, then you could track it really well. But pipocketers, uh, magicians, illusionists, 265 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: they all do this sort of arc because it's very 266 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: hard to track it accurately and you're distracted. It also 267 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: reminds me of zigzagging, like the whole deal and alligators 268 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: chasing you, Right, what do you do? Run bag? That's right? 269 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: Mess with their ability to determine when something is actually 270 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: moving sideways. And if you think that that's not enough 271 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: of a case to say that we prefer this sort 272 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: of x Y access, think about the London Tube map. Yes, 273 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: back to London, the the fabulous London Tube Map. Where 274 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: it's really and I'm fairly new to all of this, um. 275 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean I've been to London, you know, I've certainly 276 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: used that tube map to get around before, but but 277 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: I really never stopped to realize how how important it 278 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: was and how groundbreaking that map design was. And certainly 279 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: you see its influence everywhere. You see various versions of it. 280 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: You see other public transportation systems that mimic that style. 281 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: It's it's become sort of something of a modern art motif. Yes, 282 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: it's definitely iconic. Um And the reason why it works 283 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: so well is that it plays again to the x 284 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: Y access. Harry Beck is the person who designed this 285 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: map in nineteen thirty three, or rather he did it 286 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: a couple of years before that, but they didn't adopt 287 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: until ninety three. And what he did is he took 288 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: all the squirrely lines that played a spaghetti and tried 289 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: to make sense of it by only delineating all the 290 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: stations and that connecting stations in forty five degree angles. 291 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: So the effect, while being really modern to the eye, 292 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: I think um is that it really cleaned up that 293 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: space and it made it much more logical for people 294 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,359 Speaker 1: to understand the system, and it really becomes one's understanding 295 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: of the city. That's what what really fascinates me. I mean, 296 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: you tend to sort of the fine your space based 297 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: on the roads and paths you have to travel. Like, uh, 298 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, we live in a pretty pretty uh 299 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: non complex city as far as public transportation goes. We 300 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: got north and southeast and west, We've got we've got 301 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: eight and seventy five going up the center, We've got 302 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: twenty going through in the middle. So it's it's it's 303 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty simple. And then you have the Highway 304 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: to eighty five looping, yeah, looping around and trapping everybody 305 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: inside because that's our plan is that you just roar 306 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: enough traffic through there and the zombies can't get in 307 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: or out, depending on what the scenario is. But but 308 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: but it's difficult to not think about one surroundings in 309 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: those terms, like thinking about where are you in terms 310 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: of the perimeter. I mean, I'm here in Atlanta. People 311 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: tend to talk about things being O t P outside 312 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: the perimeter, like you do not want to go O 313 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: t P even if you have a friend that lives 314 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: out there. God bless them, but they're O t P 315 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: and they just invited you to dinner. You might have 316 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: to make up an excuse that kind of thing. Uh. 317 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: And then inside the perimeter is is the preferred distance 318 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: of travel? Um? And then you think of it in 319 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: those those different sections. That's right. The mental map does 320 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: actually map to the system that is in place. And 321 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: apparently this London tube map was so important to so 322 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: many people that when they made changes to it, there 323 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: was a big oh, like whoa, what are you doing? 324 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: You've changed our reality. Basically, you've changed the thing that 325 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: forms the world that we live in. Even though this 326 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: map is inaccurate, right because it's not nothing that the 327 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: forty five degree angle that has picked it in, it 328 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: was still like, that's how I see London, at least 329 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: for some people. Other people sort of said this is fine, 330 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: it's more inaccurate, but you know, that's that's what happens 331 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: when something becomes iconic. I suppose, Well, I think that's 332 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: what's ultimately at heart when when people have this reaction 333 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: to Pluto losing its planet status, you know, like ultimately 334 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: nobody really cares about Pluto. Really, it's it's it's out there, 335 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,199 Speaker 1: it's not really really has a stake in Pluto's a 336 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: long ways off and and pretty insignificant compared to the 337 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: other planets. But it was part of that map that 338 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: we grew up seeing. It was in that app was 339 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: how we defined our place in the Solar System and 340 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: in the the universe at large. And suddenly that changed 341 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: and people are like, whoa, that changes everything in a 342 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: small and perhaps in significant way to to normal life 343 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: and the way you live your daily life. But he's 344 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: still shifted your universe. Yeah. And it's funny because even 345 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: though we know life is uh something that is constantly 346 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: changing that we're just transience here, really, all of us, 347 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: we still can't help but try to nail things down 348 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: and say this is not going to change. So we're 349 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: gonna map it. Yeah, We're gonna look up at the 350 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: night sky and say that is belongs to us. And 351 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, anytime sort of those things are tinkered with, 352 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: it reminds us of this transient quality of life. Yeah, 353 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: anyone who has a GPS device that's not attached to 354 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: their phone knows this steel because like like with me, 355 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: I know that there is a way to take it 356 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: and hook it up to a computer and probably pay 357 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: some stupid sum of money to get the maps updated. 358 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: But that's a lot of trouble and money I don't 359 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: want to spend, so I end up with old maps. 360 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: So you know, it'll occasionally send us in a direction 361 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: that towards the street that is no longer there, or 362 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: will ignore a street that it doesn't know exists yet 363 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: and there, but there's there is something troubling about it. 364 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: You're like, why are the roads changing? Why is the 365 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: world changing around me? The map should have kept it 366 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: as it is. Yeah, that happened to me recently. And 367 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: the road just dead ended and it was supposed to 368 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: go for like another twenty miles. And nothing makes you 369 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: feel more helpless than relying on, you know, a clunky GPS. 370 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: Uh to feel like a rube in the middle of 371 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: nowhere and appreciate maps, at least the written ones. So um, 372 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: I did want to bring this up about Americans and 373 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: their apparent ability to excel at directions. Okay, geographer hom 374 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: Debuge has made the claim that we Americans and he's Dutch, correct, 375 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: he's German, we have a better sense of direction than 376 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: our European counterparts that live in these sort of spaghetti 377 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: streeted cities, be because we have exercise that part of 378 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: our brain, because we are so used to this grid 379 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: like system in the United States, where most major cities 380 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: are very logical and planned out on this x y acxis. 381 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: I think you can make a case for that, certainly 382 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: in something like when you go to a city like Savannah, Georgia. 383 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: You know where they have to like it's pretty laid 384 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: out on a grid, or the main part of the 385 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,199 Speaker 1: city is anyway, and you have here's a street, and 386 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: here's a street coming from the other direction, here's a park. 387 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: Here is I mean, it's just it's like a grid 388 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: where it's like a it's like a board for a 389 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: card game. Yeah, And even though they have the parks, 390 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: they have successive parks, and so there's a pattern of that, 391 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: and so you know that you're going to have to 392 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: go around these parks and x y Z configuration. So yeah, 393 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: there you go. But I think it's surprising to people 394 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: because when you think about Americans and you think about maps, um, 395 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: and our ability to actually find other countries on the map, 396 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: it's pretty dismal. Well, you know what we've talked before 397 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: about how much our brain likes to find patterns and 398 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: recognized patterns with these pattern recognition engines. So there's something 399 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: comfortably comforting about knowing that, all right, well in another street, UM, 400 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: I know, what about what's gonna happen. There's gonna be 401 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: a park up there, or another couple of streets, there's 402 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: gonna be this or that. You know, it's a you 403 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: want this regularity in your world around you. Yeah, and um, 404 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: for all the people out there when you go on 405 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: vacation and you're the map person, this is for you. UM. 406 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys like to do this, 407 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: but I love to study the map beforehand so that 408 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: I do start to create some sort of reality of 409 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: this new city for myself and my brain and orient 410 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: myself as quickly as possible. I tend to wait more 411 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: towards the last minute to do that, but I do 412 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: find something. There's something satisfying about it, Like when you're 413 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: actually on the like flying into this city and the 414 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: so the city in a sense is about to become 415 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: real to you. Then I engage with the map and 416 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: I started looking at it, and I see where I'm 417 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: going to be, what's around it, what where I can eat, 418 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: in the general vicinity and in the place becomes a 419 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: little more real before I get there. Uh, And I'm 420 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: already imagining that, which we'll talk about in a moment. 421 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break. When we get back, we 422 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: are going to talk about this idea of maps from 423 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: our imagination that become completely real to us. All right, 424 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: we're back, and we're going to talk about maps as 425 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: they relate to storytelling in the creation of unreal places 426 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: in memory and memory. We've talked before about the memory palace, 427 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: of course, and this is the method where you use 428 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: our fabulous gift for spatial processing and use that to 429 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: create an imagined place full of the things that you 430 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: need to memorize. Yeah, and think about it this way too. 431 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: When you go into a room and you perceive a room, 432 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: you're not just getting an image of your room. What 433 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,359 Speaker 1: that you know, what you're perceiving is actually your mind 434 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: creating those dimensions of a room for you. So that's 435 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: very important in terms of how we remember things and 436 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: how we map at our worlds. Yeah, like the anytime 437 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: you check out a new restaurant, restaurant, right, your your 438 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: brain has to develop that map to the bathroom. And 439 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: then once you have that data, it's it's it's important, 440 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: it's it's valuable, and you share it with other people. 441 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: The other person the table goes to get up there, 442 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: like where's that You know where the bathroom is? And like, yeah, 443 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: let me share that mental map with you. Yeah, you're like, okay, 444 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: see that fabulous mustachioed man over there, take a right, 445 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: and so on to forth. See how it becomes a 446 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: very much a part of what sticks out to your 447 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: in your memory. And this is one of the uh 448 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: bedrocks of this memory palace idea of how you can 449 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,479 Speaker 1: create a whole world in your mind and remember a 450 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: bunch of random things by tagging them to these surreal 451 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 1: objects of this story that you tell yourself. I also 452 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: can't help but be reminded of of the mandala, which 453 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: comes from the Sanskrit for circle. And this is a 454 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: motif you see again and again especially in the Tobetan Buddhism, 455 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: where it is the essentially one uses this image to 456 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: help build this virtual place in one's mind. You have 457 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: a map on on paper or on canvas or in sand, 458 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: and you use that to form this spiritually significant map 459 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: in your mind and it's and then that's used for uh, 460 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: you know, for meditation. So what I think is interesting 461 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: about this is that you're basically talking about the intersection 462 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: between reality and imagination. And we've seen this used not 463 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: necessarily the mandala per se, but the idea of this 464 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: transposing um, your imagination onto reality and fiction. Yes, um, 465 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about token and how important that 466 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 1: is as a narrative device to create this world for 467 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: the readers that you can begin to reference because you're 468 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: taking a bird's eye view of this world that Token 469 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: has created. Yes, definitely, the maps of Middle Earth in 470 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, those were 471 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: those are really big for me early on before where 472 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: I was able to read those books because my my 473 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: dad had him in these like tattered paperbacks. I remember, 474 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: like in third grade probably even younger, getting those out 475 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: and I would look at the maps and the maps 476 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: amazed me, you know, because you're you're pouring over this 477 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: data and you're looking at things like Mirkwood and uh, 478 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: you're looking at um at you know, the the place 479 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: where the Hobbits live. You're looking at where the the 480 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: the evil creatures live and more door and you're you're 481 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: forming this, uh, this world view. And then as you 482 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: you get older and you deal with these maps too, 483 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out, well, what what what is 484 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: this model? After it's what is this representing the real world, 485 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: either geographically or politically? Because you're building a players of 486 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: this world, right, Yeah, so you're you're looking like, all right, 487 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: how do I how do I interpret this map in 488 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: terms of of the actual earth? How do I interpret 489 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: it in terms of the world as as the author 490 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: was seeing it? Uh in those days. Uh, it's it's 491 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: really fascinating and it's become a hallmark, certainly of any 492 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: kind of world creating fantasy. Be it. Um. The works 493 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: of St. George are Martin is really big right now. 494 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, Uh, the TV series based on his work, 495 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: actually starts off with a map. It's like a sweeping 496 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: computer animated map of the world in which the show 497 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: takes place. UM. Other big examples of that are Scott 498 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: Baker's Um Second Apocalypse books. He has a really awesome 499 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: map with the three c's in there, so you're you're 500 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,719 Speaker 1: pouring over that and you're trying to figure out, all right, 501 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: what is this this portion of the map. This is 502 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of his Middle East, I guess, and this is 503 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: this is kind of his Baltic region. And then and 504 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: then this is where he's put the the the iconic 505 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 1: evil portion of the of the of the planet. UM. 506 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: It's it's it's fascinating to think of all that that stuff. 507 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: And also it's also interesting to think of the authors 508 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: who create a map but don't actually share that with 509 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: the readers. UM. Because certainly, if you're if you're creating, 510 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: you're engaging in world creation. You're you're creating a new planet, 511 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: new cultures, new geography. All of the stuff needs to 512 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: come together in a form that the author understands in 513 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: order to write about it. So, like a lot of 514 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: the stuff that that later came out from Tolkien, it's 515 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: stuff that he never intended for a wider audience to view. 516 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: He wrote that for himself so that he could create 517 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: these books. So a map for yourself so that you 518 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: the writer, could then write the story. I think it's fascinating. Yeah. 519 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: One of my favorite authors is a guy named Brian McNaughton, 520 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: and he wrote a book called Throne of Bones, which 521 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: all takes place in the same dark fantasy setting. And 522 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: I am told that he and I understand from from 523 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: what I've read about him, he did have a map 524 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: of this world that he'd created, but it's it's no 525 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: one's there. It's never been published. As far as I know, 526 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: no one outside of a small number of people have 527 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: ever seen it. Because his characters were not the kind 528 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: of people who engaged in a sweeping understanding of their 529 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: own world, whereas ay Gandalf, Lord of the Rings, like, 530 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: he's the kind of guy who would watch whatever Middle 531 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: Earth's version of BBC News was, you know, he he'd 532 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: be the one who tune anim I wonder the weather's 533 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: gonna be tomorrow, I wonder what's going on in uh 534 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: up there in Hobbit Country. You know, he would even 535 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: have that wider understanding, whereas the characters in um in 536 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: Brian McNaughton's book, they were more concerned with their day 537 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: to day and maybe figuring out what they were going 538 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: to eat in the next hour, or whatever their own 539 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: petty sufferings happened to be. The reader didn't need the 540 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: bird's eye in that sense. Um. I was thinking about 541 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: how places so incredibly important in fiction in our own 542 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: lives obviously, um. And then I was thinking about as 543 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: a guy named often Tappen right, and he is someone 544 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: who took his childhood creation of a country called Islandia 545 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: into adulthood with him. So I don't when you were younger, 546 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: did you ever create a sort of fantasy world or yes, um, 547 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: all the time, Because I m pretty early on I 548 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: got into Dungeons and Dragons, which the various supplements you 549 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,959 Speaker 1: would get into dungeons for Dungeons and Dragons would come 550 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: with maps, which we're all pretty fascinating. I remember one 551 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: supplement in particular had had treasure maps. Yeah, that you 552 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: could do, and so I would. I wouldn't inevitably end 553 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: up plotting out my own little scenarios in a little world. 554 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: So I would draw out all these maps, and then 555 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: later when I got into actually writing and attempting to 556 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: write fiction, I would also envision these fantastic worlds and 557 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: try and map them out. On paper and also in 558 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: my own head and I guess i've I'm still doing that. Well. 559 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: My brother and I also did this, and we came 560 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: up with Marijuana Island. We did not know what marijuana meant. 561 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: But Cranga was this this ape who uh ruled this island. Well, 562 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: that sounds like that would be a great bit of 563 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: slang for it, you know, yeah, like going to Marijuana 564 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: Island to get some cronja. Yeah yeah. Um. But you know, 565 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: we never sort of took this world with us into adulthood. 566 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: But this guy that I talked about, Austin Tapp and 567 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: right his Islandia he took from his boyhood and he 568 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: spent twenty years off and on developing this world, um 569 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: and talking about it. It's really exhau postively, like the geography, 570 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: the people, the language he made up a language for them, um, 571 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: the politics, the laws and um. This he said was 572 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: a small kingdom at the southern tip of the Korean subcontinent. 573 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: And he really put a ton of thought into this. 574 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: He created maps for it. And at the time of 575 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,239 Speaker 1: his death at forty eight, he was in a car 576 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: accident and unfortunately, um he had twenty three hundred long 577 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: hand pages dedicated to this world that he made up, 578 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: this country actually, and his wife and then later his 579 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: daughter paired it down to one thousand pages and published 580 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: it in ninety two. It was a sensation because it 581 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: really captured people's imaginations. I mean, here's someone who made 582 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: such an authentic world for others to enjoy. He did 583 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: not intend that, of course, it was his own personal obsession. 584 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: But I do think it's fascinating that he was able 585 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: to weave together uh this this uh country to the 586 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: point where people just wanted to go there. And and 587 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: he even said on his own travels across the world, 588 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: he would he would look at something and his family 589 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: said that he would look out at the mountains and say, oh, 590 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: that reminds me of Islandia. That's how real it was 591 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: in his brain. Well, and then it makes you wonder too. 592 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: We were talking about how the world around us forms 593 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: a map, but in the maps that we have formed 594 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: that world for us. So to what extent is this 595 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: created world of his more real than the real world 596 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: that he inhabits. You know, the more he knew, he 597 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: knew it better than the actual real world. I think 598 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: he did. I mean, think about this. It started in 599 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: his childhood, let's say, around ten years old up until 600 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,239 Speaker 1: he was forty eight years old, dominated the most of 601 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: his life. He reminds me a little bit of this 602 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: author by the name of M. A. R. Barker, and 603 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: he was a professor of Urdu and South Asian studies. 604 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: Really really brilliant man, you know, just steeped in the 605 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: lore and history and geography of of Asia. And he 606 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: created in his spare time. His full time professor most 607 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: of his career, but in his spare time he created 608 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: a fantasy setting called uh Teco Mel and that's t 609 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: e Ku in the l is a really cool website 610 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: that has all the stuff on it, and he ended 611 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: up writing a few different sort of pulpy but very 612 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: creative fantasy novels set there, and also one of the 613 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: earliest like a contemporary of Dungeons and Dragons role playing game. 614 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: Uh And it's just like really really rich setting, kind 615 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: of like imagine Lord of the Rings, except instead of 616 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: based upon Western and Norse models of mythology, based entirely 617 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: upon Uh Eastern motifs and models. And that's basically the 618 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: world that M. A. R. Barker created. He sadly died 619 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: I think last year, but but certainly created one of 620 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: those worlds where you feel like this world was more 621 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: real for him, Um, maybe by by only a certain margin, 622 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: but still it almost as real as the real world 623 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: that he can earned himself with. And I think it's 624 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: interesting how we can't help but create this sort of map, 625 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: whether or not we're doing it. No, no, that we're 626 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: doing it, you know what I'm saying, Whether or not 627 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: we know that we're sitting down like Austin Tapp and 628 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: right and creating this whole mythology, or just in our 629 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 1: heads when we're randomly thinking about our lives, you know 630 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: how much of that is this sort of map construct 631 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: um And we will talk more about maps um, the 632 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: history of maps, and a bit more about the science 633 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: of it in a couple of their podcasts, but we 634 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: wanted to touch on this um idea of maps as storytelling, 635 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna leave you with a little quote from 636 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: map head from Ken Jennings. He says, and he, of 637 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: course is someone who loves maps, is a map head 638 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: Um pieces maps are just too convenient and too tempting 639 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: a way to understand place. There's a tension in them. 640 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,720 Speaker 1: Almost every map will show us two kinds of places, 641 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: places where we've been in places where we've never been. Been. 642 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: Nearby in the far away exists together in the same frame, 643 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: our world, undeniably connected to the new and unexpected. We 644 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: can understand at a glance our place in new universe, 645 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: our potential to go and see new things, and the 646 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: way to get back home afterward. Very nice. All right, Well, 647 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: let's call the robot over here and we'll read a 648 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: quick listener mail. All right, this one comes to us 649 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: from Scott, who's writing about our bats episodes. He s, 650 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: it's high guys. I love the podcast. I listen while 651 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm at work all alone on the second shift, and 652 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: it informs me as well as entertains. I love the 653 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: show about bats. The first thing I thought of about 654 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: when I go mountain biking at night in the woods, 655 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: bats will swoop down and fly along in front of us, 656 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: staying in the beam of our head helmet lights. Sometimes 657 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: they are twenty feet away, and sometimes they are close 658 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: enough to see the hairs on their body and hear 659 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: their leathery wings flapping. It doesn't happen all the time, 660 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: but a half dozen times a year is thrilling. Second, 661 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: when we were kids, we would throw pebbles up in 662 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: the air at dusk and watch the bats come zipping 663 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: in to intercept the pebbles, probably thinking it was a 664 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: juice bug meal. I know it sounds cruel now, but 665 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: we were kids and we and we didn't hurt the bats. 666 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: We didn't throw anything at them. Last I live in 667 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: an old house and once every few years we'll have 668 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: a bat visitor, usually in early summer, flapping around the house. 669 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: My surefire way to safely remove them is to hold 670 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: up a sheet or blanket and slowly walk them into 671 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: a corner, and then gently lower the blanket before pick 672 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: it up and ever so gently bring it outside and unfurled. 673 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: I haven't lost a bat yet this way. Thanks again, 674 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: Scott all right catcher. Yeah, so, if if you guys 675 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: have anything you would like to share, certainly about bats 676 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: and catching bats safely in your household that kind of thing, 677 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: or about maps. What's your relationship with maps? Do you 678 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: have memories of like, like I feel a lot of 679 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: us do, of looking at these maps as a kid, 680 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,319 Speaker 1: before you really had any understanding of the world, trying 681 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: to piece it together from that that map on the wall, 682 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: looking at far away places, wondering what it's like, or 683 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: certainly the old maps. I remember we had one of 684 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: these old world maps in the wall when I was 685 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 1: a kid, where all the all the all the continents 686 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: are kind of malformed and kind of weird, and there 687 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: may have been a dragon or two. Uh will therapy 688 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: dragons right? Um? Let us know what you think about 689 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: all that, And if you're into fantasy, what do you 690 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: think about about the fantasy worlds that your favorite authors create? 691 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: In that form, what are some of your favorite maps 692 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: of unreal places? We'd love to hear about it. You 693 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: can find us on Tumblr and Facebook. On both of 694 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: those we are stuff to Blow your Mind, and you 695 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: can also find us on Twitter, where our handle is 696 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: blow the Mind and you can always drop us a 697 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: line at blow the Mind at discovery dot com for 698 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it 699 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com