1 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Woke a f with me Danielle Moody. 2 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: We are rapidly approaching one year since the tragic, unconscionable 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd, and America is still grappling with 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: its dual crises of systemic racism and unrestrained violence from 5 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: our thousands of militarized police forces. Last week, I was 6 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: joined on woke af Daily by former Chief of Police 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: in Detroit, Ralph Godby Junior. He spoke to me about 8 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: his experiences over twenty five years of trying to change 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: the police from the inside to now, calling to abolish 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: and radically reform the American police state in the wake 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: of his retirement and ever increasing calls for racial justice 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: in this country. To hear the full discussion and so 13 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: many others, head over to patreon dot com slash woke 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: AFP and join woke af Nation. You can hear all 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: of my past shows get new episodes every day, five 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: days a week. Today, dear listeners, I offer you half 17 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: of the enlightening and in depth conversation as we pick 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: up on the former chief outlining his necessary steps to 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: police reform and how the George Floyd justice and Policing 20 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: Act does not go nearly far enough to address the 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: systemic issues we are and have been facing. I want 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: to talk about your Atlanta Tribune article that you wrote 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: roughly a year ago in June of twenty twenty, and 24 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: in it you listed out six different ways that policing 25 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: needs to change that you know, to your earlier point, 26 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: we continue in this country to put band aids on 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: broken legs, on bullet wounds, sweeping things under the rugs 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: and thinking that, oh, it's enough of a fix, right. 29 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: And so in this piece you talked about arrestable offenses. 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: You talked about the prediction for police stops and communities 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: of color, decriminalizing traffic offense, elimination of no knock warrants 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: except for circumstances where imminent danger is necessary, review of 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: compensation policies that cause for overtime for officers for their 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: appearance in court based citations again, traffic stops, and giving 35 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: these tickets that once again penalize the poor as a 36 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: way to fund as a way to fund counties, and 37 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: you know which was illuminated for us with Ferguson, but 38 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: then died down. And then you talk about equitable sharing, 39 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: formulas for civil asset, forfeiture, re engineered for reinvestment. Yes, 40 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: what are the pieces of these things that you have 41 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: clearly laid out that make so much sense for a 42 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: layperson like me in terms of how I understand policing 43 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: to be that you see in the George Floyd Reform Bill, like, 44 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: what are are there any overlaps if I'm looking at 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: a then diagram of where congresses and what you are saying? 46 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Not really, and I'll tell you why. So for this 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: with the arrestable offenses, So, Danielle, we have two standards 48 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: for arrest. One it's probable cause, which means there's probable 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: cause to believe that a crime was committed, and probable 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: cause to believe that the person you're arrested committed it. 51 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: So we have a great, great discretion relative to arrest. 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: But what I am proposing is that for preconviction arrest, 53 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: we really need to pare down the discretion and officers have. 54 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: So let me use George Floyd for example. So let's 55 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: presuppose that the twenty dollars bill was counterfeit. Let's presuppose 56 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: George Floyd knew that it was counterfeit. Let's even presuppose 57 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: that he intentionally passed a twenty dollars bill. Now, I 58 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: don't know about you, but people put money in my 59 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: hand At times I don't look at it to see 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: if it's counterfeit or not. But I digress. So in 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: that instance, let me tell you how a life is 62 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: saved as a local law enforcement officer. Number one, local 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: law offers went officers. They don't have jurisdiction over counterfeit money. 64 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: That's the United States Secret Service. So for one, I 65 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: would take the twenty dollars bill or the alleged fraudulent 66 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: twenty dollars bill. I would place it on evidence. I 67 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: would do my police report with the allegation of George 68 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: Floyd passing the money. And since I can identify him 69 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: reasonably as the suspect, you can get what's called a 70 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: not in custody warrant. That's if the warrant is signed, 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: and if you meet the burden or proof relative to 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: counterfeit and passing counterfeit dollars, then you have an opportunity 73 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: with a warrant to arrest George Floyd for an actual 74 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: criminal Act Number one, you save a life. Number two, 75 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: it changes the engagement strategy for police or everything is 76 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: not this pissing match of you know, my cheesemo because 77 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: let's be honest. Yeah, except for Dante Wright and a 78 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: few exceptions, most of the officer involved deaths that result 79 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: in black people dying have been white males for the 80 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: most problems. You know. Now with some exceptions with Freddie 81 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: in Baltimore, half of those were black. So that's why 82 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: it's systemic as well as race based. But I say 83 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: all that to say that if we start to pair back, 84 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: how many of those arrests we are authorized to make 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: and utilize this unfettered discretion because it is not applied equally, 86 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: and that's the problem. There's not equity in what we do. 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: So that's one thing I think we could do to 88 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: really save lives. Because let's be clear, and this is 89 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: basic math, the best way to stop the number of 90 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: police involved killings with black folks is to reduce the 91 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: numbers of times police officers have to interact with us. 92 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: We've got to change that dynamic. If you don't change 93 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: that ratio, we're going to continue to get what we 94 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: get and it's just going to be murder on tape. 95 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: So let me go to another one, the compensation piece, 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: which Justice George Floyd Justice the Policing Act does not address. 97 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: We've got to take the profit motive or monetizing our 98 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: public safety product. So for a police officer, for the 99 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: most part, depending on how many tickets you write, you're 100 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,119 Speaker 1: going to go to court. And we go to court. 101 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: That's extra duty or overtime or compensatory time. So if 102 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm a police officer and I have a financial issue, 103 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: I can really control my net income over the year 104 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: by how many tickets I write, So there may not 105 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: be a quote of per se. However, if I have 106 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: a financial and center for writing tickets so I can 107 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: go to court, or make this frivolous arrest so I 108 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: can go to court, then we now have a problem 109 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: because again Ferguson Missouri, their entire court system was funded 110 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: on the backs of those that could least afford to 111 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: really have those kind of hits. And then from a 112 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: criminal genic standpoint, we're creating criminals. So if you enforce 113 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: in a way in one community that you don't enforce another, 114 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: you automatically hand stringing disadvantage an entire race of people 115 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: because of your policing practices. Because that unpaid civil infraction 116 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: becomes a warrant, warrant becomes a police encounter, that police 117 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: encounter becomes and you know, and then you follow the 118 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: line repeat. Now let me add this piece of nuance 119 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: dand Yale. So this is where it's got to be 120 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: a much more nuanced conversation. I think we can all 121 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: agree that black people have been traumatized by their experience 122 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: and race in the United States of America and particularly 123 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: when it comes to encounters with the police. So if 124 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: you read post Traumatic Slave Syndrome, there's a book by 125 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: a guy named Bessel Vandelkook called The Body Keeps the Score, 126 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: which talks about some of the physiological and psychological responses 127 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: to stress. So in a stress situation, there are three 128 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: different physiological responses fight, flee, or freeze. Now check this out. 129 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: If you're a black man or a black woman and 130 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: you see red and blue lights in your rearview window 131 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: understanding the landscape of policing, I think it's very easy 132 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: to say that you may be dealing with a traumatized individual. 133 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: So based on those three physiological stress responses fight, flee, 134 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: or freeze, two out of the three you screwed. If 135 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: you do that with the police department. Now let's go 136 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: to the other side of the pendure. Police officers operate 137 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: under the same paradigm. That's a traumatized group of folks 138 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: as well. But this is the difference, Danyale. We're trained 139 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: to train out two IT at three, the fleet and 140 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: the freeze through repetition and muscle memory, and train in 141 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: annual qualifications and different types of scenario based training. You 142 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 1: train out two IT to three. So what is the 143 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: police officers left with? Fight? So when you look at 144 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: it from that standpoint, when you have that many disproportionate 145 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: numbers of traffic stops of black peace people by police, 146 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: you are creating a physiological dynamite ready to explode at 147 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: every traffic stop. And it does not anwre to the 148 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 1: benefit of black and brown people. So this thing is 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: so much more nuanced in the conversations that we have 150 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: that we really have to look at. So this was 151 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: another piece of my recommendation police officers need to have 152 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: a semi annual psychological exam. So, Danielle, I'm just gonna 153 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: throw this out there. In twenty five years with Detroit, 154 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: then two years as chief with Detroit Public School, so 155 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: in aggregate, twenty seven years of actual police work, close 156 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: to thirty five years that I've been in the industry. 157 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: Being an adject professor as well, I had one psychological 158 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: exam now I was a chief, not left. I was 159 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: dealing with PTSD, I was dealing with depression, all of 160 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: those things. So you continue to send police officers out 161 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: on a day to day basis for their careers, and 162 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: the only time they really go through that kind of 163 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: psychological debriefing is in those extraordinary situations. Your partner was 164 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, you had a comrade 165 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: killed on the line of duty, or you saw some 166 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: mass shooting that you were involved in. But that is 167 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: the exception, that is not the rule. So as a 168 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: rule and to take and take the stigma out of 169 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: mental health helps, every police officer should have to debrief 170 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: with a clinical psychologists at least twice a year. And 171 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: it cannot be punitive because if you make it punitive 172 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: and you start the punish officers for expressing that they 173 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: have these issues, then it's not going. And that's why 174 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: it has to be all officers. It does not have 175 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,239 Speaker 1: to be based on any specific scenario, just the industry 176 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: that you work in by itself. It is a trauma 177 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: field industry, and that's why police officer we have the 178 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: some of the highest rates of suicide, some of the 179 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: highest rates of domestic violence, some of the highest rates 180 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: of substance abuse, some of the highest rates of alcoholism. 181 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's high suicide rates because we have trauma 182 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: as well. But as long as we stand these silos 183 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: and don't have more nuanced conversations, the politicians gonna keep 184 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: doing what they do and then we'll get these perfunctory 185 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: You know, we made change in criminal justice. I mean 186 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: Donald Trump let out a few prisoners early and called 187 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: that criminal justice reform. That wasn't criminal justice reform, that 188 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: was early release. I mean, let's be real. There has 189 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: not been any meaningful reform since the Kerner Commission in 190 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties, and nothing meaningful has been done so 191 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: and you know that's why, I mean, I don't see 192 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,359 Speaker 1: myself as ever being a chief again. I'm an advocate 193 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: as long as God gives me breath to really be 194 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: in this fight and advocate for those that are least 195 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: stand left out and left behind, because the community knows 196 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: what they're getting is subpart. But in a lot of instances, 197 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: they don't know how to articulate what I need different. 198 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you what's wrong, But they have not 199 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: had to help our community, particularly black and brown. Yeah, 200 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: I had to help of knowing what to ask for 201 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: and pointing out these underbelly flaws in the system. So 202 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 1: I feel that's my call for the rest of my life, 203 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: you know, and honestly, or I'll thank God that it 204 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: is because I think that in order for us to 205 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: have the type of systemic change that we are calling for, 206 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: that we need folks like yourself that whether they are 207 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: active duty, they are retired, they have become advocates. But 208 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: the reality is is that we want a country where 209 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 1: people are safe. And the fact that you know, you 210 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: just mention the litany of mental health issues that police 211 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: officers encounter and have, and this is the same thing 212 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: in our military. But we've created these industries and these 213 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: systems where we say that if you have to go 214 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: and get help, or if you're asking for help, then 215 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: there's something wrong with you, and we're putting you on 216 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: desk duty, as opposed to saying that making sure that 217 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: the people that we are putting out actively every day 218 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: in the field are operating at one hundred percent of 219 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: themselves and so and that we're taking care of them 220 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: so that we can also take care of ourselves as 221 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: like the whole of community. For me, as I'm listening 222 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: to you, what I realize is that there is so 223 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: much what is required in this rebirthing moment that I 224 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: feel like we are in as a nation is a 225 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: different perspective, a nuanced perspective on what it is that 226 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: we are saying. So when we talk about, like you said, 227 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: public safety, when I think about public safety in the 228 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: suburbs that I grew up in, it wasn't seeing police officers. 229 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: I never saw police officers in the areas or their 230 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: neighborhoods at all unless they were just you know, riding 231 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: down the highways exactly right. And I could say to you, 232 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I grew up relatively safe, right, But I also grew 233 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: up in a middle income, white suburban area, right, So 234 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: my understanding about police and how police are. Police were there, 235 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: but they were not a presence. And in our communities, 236 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: in black and brown communities, in lower income communities, they 237 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: are that hovering helicopter, that surveillance that is literally on you. 238 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: One hundred percent of the time, and so I think 239 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: that when we talk about abolishing systems, it is really 240 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: abolishing the premise that more cops equals more safety, when 241 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: in fact it doesn't. It's just not true. It's absolutely true. 242 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: Joanne Watson, who was a former president of the Detroit 243 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: chapter of the NAP as well as a former Detroit 244 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: City councilperson, she made this crystal clear to me, when 245 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: our chief a police in the chief, the best crime 246 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: prevention tool is a job. Getting black and brown people employed, 247 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: getting them a livable wage, and above making sure that 248 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: the community is service from a mental health standpoint, that 249 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: the education system, the dollars are matched, that are paid 250 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: in the suburbs per pupil system, that we teach our 251 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: black kids they're worth, and we have a reorientation of 252 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: what American history is sixteen nineteen project, so our young 253 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: people understand that, you know, they have worth, that black 254 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: lives do matter, and that it's not just the same, 255 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: but it's demonstrated public safety is so much more. As 256 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, police are the smallest part of 257 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: public safety. And until we wrap our minds around that 258 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: in urban areas, in black and brown communities, that you know, 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: the police are not coming and save us because what 260 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: happened to Columbus, Ohio. And this is where legality and 261 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: morality they don't always line up. Legally, that officer is 262 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: going to be acquitted or will never be charged. Legally, 263 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: it's going to be deemed to justify shooting even though 264 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: that young lady is sixteen years old. But as a 265 00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: black man, what I saw, I saw two lives to 266 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: be saved. So representation matters, and not just representation from 267 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: the color of your skin, but representation experientially. Because I 268 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: would have put my life on the line. I could 269 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: say this other quivoally because I've I've been a cop. 270 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: I would have put my life on the line and 271 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: grabbed that girl with a knife to save two lives 272 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: as opposed to making a value decision as to which 273 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: of the black lives is the most important and killing 274 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: the sixteen year old. That's why we have to have 275 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: a different conversation because legality we have in this country, 276 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: we've made an idol of the constitution, which baffle was 277 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: the hell out of me because it was once legal 278 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: for white people to own me. So don't hit me 279 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: with what's legal, because what's legal is not what's always more, 280 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: always always right. So we have to really have a 281 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: different conversation. We need a new Civil Rights Act number 282 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: one that needs to address not only from poverty all 283 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: the way to the criminal justice system and the inequities 284 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: and education and all these systemic things that that's the 285 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: real conversation, and that's where safety starts to improve until 286 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: we have those conversations. But as long as we keep 287 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, retrain, how do you retrain Derek Shavin? 288 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: How do you train that level of heart hate out 289 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: of somebody's heart to where you would put your man, 290 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: your knee on a man's neck for nine minutes and 291 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: thirty seconds without any concern or whether he lived or die. 292 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: That ain't a training issue. That's an issue at a heart. 293 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: That's a morality issue. And that's where we're failing as 294 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: a damned country, our morality. And not that it has 295 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: been pristine given our history, but we got a long 296 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: way to go aspirationally for us to be what this 297 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: country espouses to be, and we're not that. We're not 298 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: even anywhere close. So that's why I'm a real proponent 299 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: of defunding or realocating resources. However you want to parse it, 300 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: but what is being done doesn't work. We have and 301 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: have had a failure of morality in this country. It 302 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,959 Speaker 1: takes strong, outspoken voices like former police Chief Ralph Godby 303 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: Junior to help impact the fundamental change we so desperately need, 304 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: and to call out our elected officials when what they're 305 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: offering as reform is it nearly good enough for this moment. 306 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: I will continue to have these conversations every single week 307 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: on Patreon, so do consider supporting me and Woke AF 308 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: daily at patreon dot com slash woke AF. We've got 309 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: a lot of great guests coming up in the next 310 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: few weeks, on top of hundreds of past shows you 311 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: can access immediately when you join the Woke AF nation. 312 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power, 313 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.