WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Glomar Explorer 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey, guys, Steve here, you are listening to one of 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.600 our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.280 of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.639 a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.480 for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.040 remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.480 mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.880 all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.880 if you had listened to what we're calling the last 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.639 twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.160 music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.720 back to straight audio, so be warned. We sound a 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.040 little different today than we do in what you're about 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:47.560 to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, thinking sideways. I don't understand. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:57.360 You never know stories of things. We simply don't know 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.520 the answer too. Well. Hey there it's the time for 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.880 a little unsolved mystery action you guys after that? Okay, Well, 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:11.840 first off, my name's Joe, I'm Devin. Okay, let's get 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.800 rolling here. Uh So, our story starts in nearly seventies. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.800 There was a breaking at the Hughes Corporation. The breaking 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:23.520 led to the revelation that a ship that had been 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.920 built by the Hughes Corporation, the Gloomar Explorer, which was 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.480 ostensibly built for exploration and mining of manganese modules from 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.240 the ocean floor, was not actually built for that purpose 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:38.520 at all. It was actually part of a CIA project 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.800 that the Huges Corporation was providing cover for. So the 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.959 Glomar Explorer was it turns out, not not mining manganese 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.920 modules at all. It was it was raising a Soviet submarine. 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.840 What's the manganese module. I'm not even sure what the 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:58.240 hell that is, but there, yeah, there. Apparently there are 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.800 manganese modules on the ocean floor, and manganese as a 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.520 rare it is a rare metal that's worth a lot 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:05.360 of money, I guess. And so you know, if it 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.559 weren't so dark and expensive to go retrieve those things 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.960 off the ocean floor, then we could actually be grabbing 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.600 those things and you know, utilizing them. But apparently we're 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:17.120 not because too much money. Okay. So anyway, as a 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:19.160 little aside, you know that the cover story was so 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.280 effective that some some major corporations actually put a lot 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.280 of money into researching how to man how to actually 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.640 retrieve manganese modules themselves for the ocean floor. And let's see, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.200 the joke was on them. So anyway, back to back. 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.560 So let's go back to Napril night. The Sylvia submarine 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:43.320 K sank into Pacific about ere and miles north northwest 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:47.520 of Hawaii. It was an early Soviet boomer. And I'm 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.040 sure you only know what a boomer is, but for 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:50.560 a few of you who don't know what a boomer is, 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.440 that's a submarine that carries nuclear missiles. The idea being 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.600 that you know, if somebody launches an attack in your 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.480 homeland and wipes out like your land based missiles, while 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.520 you still get some hidden out at sea to fire 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.679 back at the enemy. We've got them. The Soviets have them, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.840 the Bridge and the French have them. Chinese have them. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.799 So anyway, that's a boomer. So uh this this is 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.600 one of the earliest attempts to the boomer. It was 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.320 a diesel submarine that had been lengthened. The the sale 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.560 had been made larger to accommodate three vertically matted nuclear 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.600 tip missiles. They were liquid fuel and that's probably the 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.160 wide submarine sank. It is because liquid fuel rockets tend 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.520 to be a lot more prone to accidents, which is 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.399 why we used solid fuel rockets on our boomers. So anyway, 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.600 so it sank. Uh. We didn't know about it at first. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.560 The what happened is the Navy noticed that huge surge 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.840 of Soviet naval forces into that part of the Pacific, 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.360 obviously looking for their lost submarine. And so that caused 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.080 us to go back and review our our socias records. 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.440 And I'll show you all know what socias is. But 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.600 socis yeah, but for a few of you don't, so 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.240 says scratching my head. Yeahs an underwater network of sonar 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.320 sonar receivers that we've got in certain strategic places around 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.680 the world. And there were, and so we actually pick 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.600 up all kinds of noise and run it to computers 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.800 and figure out what's going on in the ocean about 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.360 how we heard the blop the loop probably Oh yeah, 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.120 it's a listening network. Yeah, it's it's a big underwater 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:19.920 listening network. Yeah. Okay, well yeah, I remember the blue 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:24.360 but um so anyway, so in response to this, the 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.960 US went back and reviewed all of its socist records, 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.960 and determined that yes, indeed there were there were some sounds. 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:32.720 There was first of all a big, a big boom 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.640 associated with explosion, and then somewhat after that, some of 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.479 the sounds associated with the implosion or the death of 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:43.200 a submarine. So apparently they they probably had a problem 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:47.679 with one of their rockets. They surfaced, exploded. They probably 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.120 had a problem with one of their rockets. They surfaced, 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.880 the exploded, and then eventually set the ship wind up 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.840 sinking in about two miles of water, and so and 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:03.080 so using using triangulation, etcetera, we were able to figure 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:06.599 out roughly where had gun down. So at that point, 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.479 and by the way that the project was eventually named 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.640 Project as Orion, although they code named a Project Jennifer. 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.400 It was codenamed Project as Orion, but they told the 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:16.960 President was Project Jennifer, because that's just the way they 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.800 are in the government. I really wanted there to be 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:23.440 twenty seven of them. Everybody thinks. Everybody thought it was 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:27.200 a Project Jennifer, but actually his Project as Orion. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.559 there's like and so yeah, I mean like, well, there's 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.320 a guy who was part of the whole thing. He 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:35.400 was on the Halibut which was a spy sub that 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.200 we're out looking for the wreckage of the submarine. Eventually, 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.320 like you know, many years later, like in the nineties, 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.479 he wrote a book about it called Spiceub And in 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:50.440 his book, the halibut was called the viperfish exactly everywhere 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.720 it wasn't. He he couldn't and you know, everybody, the Sovieust, Chinese, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.039 all everybody knows it's called the halibut. You know, we 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.240 all know this, But he was still required to call 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.000 it something else. So he called up the piper fish. 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.400 That's how that's how silly they are about this stuff. Yeah, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.360 I know. So the guy's name was Roger Dunham and 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.400 he was on board the halibut, and the halibut was 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.080 was equipped to trail an apparatus behind it, which they 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:18.560 called the fish. And the fish was basically, remember this 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.719 isn't this isn't like the early seventies and we didn't 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.680 have digital photography and all that stuff. So what they 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.320 had to do was they had to trail this thing 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.800 underneath the sub and behind the sub and do race 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:31.479 track patters just go up and down in a grid 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.960 pattern over the ocean floor and then and then regularly 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.160 haul the thing up back into the boat, pulled off 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:41.640 the film canisters, and developed the film. Yeah, and so 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.640 eventually the day came and they were they were down 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.479 there for weeks looking around, and eventually the day came 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:52.240 when hey spotted something and so they had pictures of 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.880 something on the ocean floor, you know, the the K 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.800 one nine. So they had found what they were looking for. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.760 And so at that point that's when it's time to 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:02.440 figure out what to do with it. It was laying 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:04.120 on a side one of the missiles that slid out 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.080 of the top of the sail, and there was just 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.680 the stock got around that we should probably try to 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.040 raise it. And so the glow War Explorer was built 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.720 for that express purpose of raising that submarine to see 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.120 to explore their missile technology and maybe get to look 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.360 at the codebooks you knows going on. Uh, And so 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.480 the Glow Wire Explorer was purpose built for this very mission. 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.480 It was it had this thing called the claw that 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.640 was then it had a moon pool in the middle 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.440 of the ship. The moon pool was just a big 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.880 pool that was opened on the bottom, had closing doors, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.640 doors that could close, but it could open up and 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:41.880 it was at her ninety nine ft long, and then 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.800 at either end of that there were these crane type arrangements. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.280 What essentially what essentially they did was they would lower 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.880 down these big steel pipes, slowly lower them down. There's 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.400 other big machinery pieces that would grab the next piece, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.600 these in where I believe sixty ft long piece, and 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.880 they were threaded on either end, and so you would 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.560 lower this thing down all the way. These two pieces 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:05.720 of steel they are attached to the claw, and then 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.160 the cranes bring up two more big huge tubes of 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:14.000 steel and and they're threaded into the ones below, yeah yeah, 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.280 and then those things are slowly lowered, and then and 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.040 then the next the next pair of tubes are brought up, 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.800 threaded in, slowly lowered. So the process of actually getting 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.920 the claw down to the K one twin yeah yeah, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:31.320 and bringing it back up took many days and so 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.360 so it was revealed many years after the fact that 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.160 what had happened. The claw had five claws to it. Essentially, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.480 it was like five there were five individual claws that 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.720 could grasp the submarine and then bring it back up. 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:49.520 And so they unfortunately they had an unfortunate incident. According 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:52.960 to what the Navy said the they went down too fast, 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.920 they slammed the claw into the ocean bottom and yeah, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.559 and then they managed to maneuver it over to the 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.400 Sumner rine that I didn't I don't know, I don't 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.200 know if I mentioned the claw actually had had like 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.480 propellers and stuff on it so that they could actually 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.720 because there was such a long ways away that there 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:10.600 was nothing they could do from there and as far 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:12.400 as like like pushing on the pipes or anything to 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.720 guide this thing. So they had to basically using underwater 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.479 cameras and lites and everything like that. They would use propellers. 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.520 They were amounted on this thing to to pull it 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:23.720 in various directions to get a centered over where they 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.880 needed to be and centered over the wreckage. And then 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:28.520 they when they hooked the wreckage with the clock. Yeah, 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.640 I know this this sounds this This makes me think 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:33.440 of have you ever taken a tape major and run 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.440 it out to about six foot and it's trying to 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.480 bend and not quite break and you're trying to get 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.960 it over to touch something and that's that's difficult. And 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.680 that's just a six foot tape masure. Yeah, this was 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.400 two miles down a couple of miles down and always down. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:55.480 It was like very very difficult operation. And yet and yes, 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.160 I think is the word that comes to mind that too. 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:04.280 And and yet somehow, oh they alast on the way up. Um. 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.800 On the way up, some of the claus broke and 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:11.440 the part of the submarine fell apparently, so they actually 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.640 managed to hook it. Yeah, they actually managed to get 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.440 this thing wrapped around the sub The cloud was really 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.480 like holding on the sub bringing it up. And unfortunately 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.440 about some of the clause broke on the way back 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.240 up under the stress, and most of the submarine was lost, 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.760 and essentially the nose remained and the rest of it 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:36.400 broke away. So that is the official story, um so, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.280 But of course there's a lot of problems with that story. 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.679 Did they get the nose, they bring it up. They 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.360 did bring the nose up. They brought the nose up. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.720 They actually found out the remains of some Soviet sailors 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.480 and they gave them a burial. Let's sea supposedly, didn't 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:58.040 they already have one of those? Yeah, and they didn't. 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.560 But they didn't find much of value because people's are 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.480 giant too. Okay, Okay, there's several problems with this story. Okay, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:11.640 the K the K wast long, the sub the sub 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:18.280 that they were retrieving, yea long the moon pool of 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:24.360 the Glamore Explorer. Wast Long now purpose built for the 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:30.439 mission of raising a submarine. That's what. How dot longer 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.880 than the moon pool? You kind of got to ask, 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.600 you know, exactly why they didn't make it longer moon pool? 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.800 But one question about that. A Navy spokesman said that 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.920 the plan was to haul it up and then have 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.160 divers go down and cut the cut the ends of 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.719 the submarine off because they were mainly interested in the 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.880 middle park with the where the missiles were. They were 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.040 just going to cut it off. But that's more than 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:55.080 half of the sub, isn't it. They would have to 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.000 half cut off almost half, I mean threet it would 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.680 have to cut it down, and it's them to add 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.400 no more than I've a little bit of play right 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.240 five at the most. Yeah, so they're losing a lot 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.720 of sub there. Well, and it's a sub It's not 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.960 as if it's just a shell and you cut outside 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.800 shell and it falls apart exactly. I mean, the process 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:19.160 of cutting the ends off is you're talking weeks at 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.760 least many weeks, because there's framing, there's decks, there's all 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.000 kinds of there's piping and two being all. That's the 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.240 sort of thing they do for you know, months on 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.079 a dry dock, on a shed. Yeah, exactly. Imagine doing 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.440 that underwater and you know, especially you know, let's see 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.080 with waves and everything. And the next problem is that 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:42.079 the the next problem is that somehow the nose remained, uh, 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.480 some of the notes remained in the clause even and 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.240 the rest of the sub broke away. But it seems 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.600 rather unlikely that even if the nose was even if 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:51.640 there was damage to the sub, and I'm sure there was, 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:56.600 and it wouldn't be so extensive that that the nose 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.360 wouldn't have been pulled out with the rest of the 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.720 wreckage out of the clause. It seems rather than likely. 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:02.960 And last of all, last of all, how did they 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.480 get the nose into the moon pool? Because theoretically the 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.959 nose should have been sticking way out one end of 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.040 the clause if it stayed behind. So yeah, so how 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.400 exactly did they get that nose into the moon pool? 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:20.640 And there's there's no wreck close that says, quote unquote, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.200 this is what we did correct as and this is 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.080 how we got the nose in the moon. Yeah. No, 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:32.080 they never explained that. Now explained. I'm just thinking, Okay, well, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.240 let's let's just run with the let's just run with 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.120 the story. Okay, Well we we pull it up and 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.080 a big chunk of it breaks away. Oh crud. The 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:41.920 only part that we've got left is what we meant 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.280 to cut off and it won't fit in the hole. Well, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.160 it's like trying to get something in your car that's 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.760 too big. You got to tie it onto something and 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.760 sent it down. And I can just imagine they would 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.040 have gone in with some kind of cabling and attached 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.160 the superstructure, let go with the claw, and it would 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.480 have drifted down own and then they would have craned 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.840 it up. That is that is entirely possible. They could 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.280 have done something like that, could have like you know, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.960 I don't know if they had anything on board that 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.199 was capable of hauling that much weight besides the clots, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.240 so but you know, they could have. They could have 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:20.000 actually attached cables, dropped it, let it be suspended, bring 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.680 the claw back down and grab it, bring it back up. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.120 So that's entirely possible if that's what they did. I mean, 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:26.960 that's what I'm just thinking. Okay, well, let's just say 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.320 the story is true, that the cover story that we're 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.400 that is the cover story for the first story. Let's 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.640 just say that's true, and it's the only plausible way 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.480 I could see it happen. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.800 So anyway, but it is suspicious that, you know, they 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.480 would if they custom built the ship, and you know, 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.400 I don't know anything about structural integrity of ships or 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.080 anything like that. I don't know if it was you know, 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.880 impossible for them to do that to make it actually 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.840 make it actually that long, you know, especially the moon pool, 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.840 the ship would have pretty big. It would have had 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.720 to be very big accommodate that large ball moon pool. Um, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:05.480 but why would you why would you do that? Well? 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:07.680 Why would you? Why would you go to all this 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:12.560 trouble and expense to raise an obsolete diesel submarine? I mean, yeah, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.720 I guess that's the real question, isn't it. There wasn't 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.120 There wasn't much in there. I mean, the Soviets had 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.520 liquid fuel rockets, which was a technology that we had 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.960 already had abandoned. Solid fuel rockets so it's like the 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.640 it's not like we were really chone and for their 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:32.200 rocket to and of course they were nukes, right, Yeah, 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:34.720 so it would have been probably possibly that would have 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.040 been some usefulness to see in their nuclear warheads and 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.160 you know, figuring out how tinkering with those a little 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:44.520 bit would have been some usefulness there. But again, you know, uh, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.240 it probably would have been easier to just grab one 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.960 of the rockets that are falling out and just you know, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.240 build a much smaller have a much smaller operation that 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.880 goes down and just grabbed the rocket that's a missile 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:02.760 ocean and you know, are their series about these problems? No, no, 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.640 I I had no theories myself. While I have theories, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:10.240 but I don't believe him very very much. It's a 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.600 couple of theories. One is that, oh and I wanted 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.960 one other thing I wanted to mention too, is that 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.200 there's a guy who was involved with this project called 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.320 John Craven who wrote eventually wrote with his memoirs. He 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.400 was in the Navy, not actually with the Navy, who 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.520 was a scientist, and he was involved in the sonar 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.120 search for not only the wreckage of the cave one 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.080 twenty nine. He was He was the guy that actually 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.920 orchestrated the search to find it to the sonar records 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:38.000 pinpoint its location. And he also he also was part 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.520 of the search signed the Scorpion, which was a U 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.040 S submarine a sanc in night. There's a skip Jack 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.720 class sub the SINC in the Atlantic off the Azors. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.880 So he wrote as a memoirs and his memoirs he 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.520 said he was talking about projects as oar and he 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.840 said that he he said that he had seen the 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.480 photographs that were taken by the hell but and that 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.840 he was surprised to hear that what the photographs were 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.800 of was a diesel submarine. That's what he said. Did 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.000 he did he say what he thought they were going 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.080 to be? He now he he didn't say what the 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.680 photographs were of. He just said basically they it wasn't 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.720 it was not a diesel submarine. Have these photos ever 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:24.040 been released? Not that I know of. No. And this 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.399 happened again. What was the year they pulled it? That 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:29.879 was the year the submarine sank. It was the early 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.840 seventies when the same one it was actually okay, okay, yeah, 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:37.679 So Free Information Act extends how far back yeah, I 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.160 don't you know. They usually it's it's I would say, 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.280 it's it's long past time to release those things. And 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.600 actually I have not yet researched, said my bad, I 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:46.200 should probably try to find out if any of those 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.359 photographs have been released, But I really suspect they haven't 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:53.360 been released because I suspect what I suspect actually happened 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.959 is that when the K one twenty nine sank, when 0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:59.959 a submarine, good hands in the position of the plane, 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.760 but saying say, for example, uh, the is the runners 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.879 straight then, and then the stern points have been straightened, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.480 and so you start to sink, and eventually, if you 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.480 knows is if you if your nose is a little bit, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.359 and you'll start going more vertical, and at that point 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.280 you're control surfaces in the rear submarine basically act like 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.480 flutes on an arrow, and so they drive you down 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:26.680 or drive you down where's essentially you're gonna You're gonna 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.879 wind up going straight down. So if the came one 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:33.040 twenty nights, when the came on sank, I'm guessing that 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.240 probably it went and nose first. The nose was completely demolished, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.120 and so that's why they maybe felt very comfortable saying 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.920 that they recovered the nose because the nose no longer 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:48.600 existed anyway. What I believe is that the Glomar Explorer 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:51.360 and one that was built for another mission, It performed 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.399 that mission and land later on. As part of their 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.440 little cover story, they went out to this part of 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.399 the Pacific where this thing had been with a submarined 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.399 sunk and they parked out there for weeks and pretended 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.280 to raise the wreckage of the submarine. That is my belief. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.360 Now what whatever it was actually raised, I'm not sure 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.400 it could have been. It could have been the wreckage 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.160 of the Scorpion, which I mentioned a few minutes ago. Uh, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.320 there was a lot of there was actually speculation of 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.160 the submarine in community that the Scorpion had been sunk 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.240 for the Soviets. So there probably was ovation to raise 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.440 the wreckage and find out what precisely had sunk the scorpion. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.960 So how big was the scorpion? Well, that's the problem. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:37.280 Scorpion was two ft long big for that. Yeah. Well, um, 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.600 when it hit it kind of kind of hit notes first. 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.480 So what happened is part of the after section telescoped in, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:47.359 so it did get it did get compressed someone I 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:48.920 was I was doing a little research to try to 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:53.280 find out exactly how extensive the damage was and how short, basically, 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.920 how short that the scorpion had become from its impact. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.320 I've seen pictures. Of course, these could be doctored pictures too, 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.080 because you know, if they if it turns out that 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.000 they they were able to take on the water pictures 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.000 of the scorpion, but if actually it exts torpedo, they 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:11.600 would probably airbrush that because you know, because I'm admitting 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.040 that Sylviets have declared and they basically declared war on 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:16.920 you by committing an active war, and then you've got 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.400 to do something about it. So the story that I heard, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.000 I know some submariners UM, and submariners have noticed a 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.320 silence service because they never talked about their stuff. But 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.520 of course they talk all the time. I've heard from 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:32.320 a couple of them that, yeah, the the scorpion was 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:38.000 in their boats and main revenge but you know, hockey okay, um. 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.240 So that and I have also be reader that the 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.840 Navy had indeed wreckage somewhere, but again it could be 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:49.640 just pure garbage, this purebs who knows. So anyway, it's 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:51.800 a mystery. So we don't know. I could have been 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.720 the wreckage of maybe an experimental Sylvia's subresparent, one of 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.600 our experimental submarines. It could have been a UFO. So 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.920 when after so obviously we don't know exactly what it did. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:07.240 But after this mission, what did they do with the 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.439 Glomar Explorer? And the Glomar Explorer got refitted? Actually, you know, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.240 I had the good force and actually see the Glomar Explorer. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.359 It was right here in Portland. That was like I 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.359 somewhere in there. I was taking a jet road right 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.480 you know the jet boats. They're right by the the 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.760 USS Blue Back, the Mighty Blue Back down Hotly. Yeah, yes, 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.520 I took a jet boat ride. And then we went 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.879 up to a Cascade General shipyard. On the outside of 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.240 the shipyard was nothing, no less than the Glomar Explorer. 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.600