1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,076 Speaker 1: Pushkin why Cleft John had spent the last three decades 2 00:00:22,116 --> 00:00:25,156 Speaker 1: as one of the most impactful rappers, producers, and composers 3 00:00:25,196 --> 00:00:28,036 Speaker 1: in popular music. As a part of the Fujis, he 4 00:00:28,036 --> 00:00:30,876 Speaker 1: helped craft their nineteen ninety six landmark album The Score, 5 00:00:31,116 --> 00:00:32,836 Speaker 1: one of the best selling hip hop albums of all 6 00:00:32,836 --> 00:00:36,876 Speaker 1: time and personally one of my favorites. The following year, 7 00:00:36,876 --> 00:00:39,596 Speaker 1: he released his debut solo album, The Carnival, which included 8 00:00:39,676 --> 00:00:43,716 Speaker 1: hits like Guantanamera featuring Celia Cruz and the platinum certified 9 00:00:43,756 --> 00:00:47,116 Speaker 1: single Gone Till November. As a writer and producer for 10 00:00:47,156 --> 00:00:49,916 Speaker 1: other artists, Wycliffe is behind Whitney Houston's My Love Is 11 00:00:49,956 --> 00:00:53,756 Speaker 1: Your Love, Santana's Maria Maria Shakira's Hips Don't Lie, and 12 00:00:53,796 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 1: the Destiny's Child remix of No, No No, which was 13 00:00:56,476 --> 00:01:00,076 Speaker 1: their breakout single. Today, we're bringing you a live conversation 14 00:01:00,196 --> 00:01:02,636 Speaker 1: recorded at the On Air Podcast Festival, where I was 15 00:01:02,716 --> 00:01:05,796 Speaker 1: joined by special guest host Sam Sanders to sit down 16 00:01:05,796 --> 00:01:08,116 Speaker 1: with wyclef. We get into what it was really like 17 00:01:08,156 --> 00:01:10,196 Speaker 1: in the studio with Whitney here Houston, how the Fuji 18 00:01:10,236 --> 00:01:13,156 Speaker 1: shaped their sound while recording The Score, and the wisdom 19 00:01:13,276 --> 00:01:15,276 Speaker 1: y Cleft would pass on to his younger self about 20 00:01:15,276 --> 00:01:21,436 Speaker 1: what makes a great creative collaboration. This is broken record, 21 00:01:21,876 --> 00:01:30,676 Speaker 1: real musicians, real conversations. Here's my interview with y Clef. 22 00:01:30,916 --> 00:01:32,876 Speaker 1: Head over to YouTube dot com slash Broke a Record 23 00:01:32,916 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 1: podcast if you'd like to watch. 24 00:01:36,036 --> 00:01:39,916 Speaker 2: Without further ado, justin Richmond and why Cleff Jean, come 25 00:01:39,956 --> 00:01:41,956 Speaker 2: on out, come on out. 26 00:01:42,956 --> 00:01:49,716 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, welcome. 27 00:01:53,076 --> 00:01:54,796 Speaker 1: You know are you? 28 00:01:55,356 --> 00:01:57,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're in charge, boss man. 29 00:02:00,356 --> 00:02:02,956 Speaker 1: Man. I'm so happy here with you. 30 00:02:04,076 --> 00:02:05,596 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, that's right. 31 00:02:05,916 --> 00:02:06,756 Speaker 1: It's James Bird. 32 00:02:08,756 --> 00:02:09,276 Speaker 3: Uh. 33 00:02:10,236 --> 00:02:12,596 Speaker 1: I remember one time we did an interview twenty nineteen 34 00:02:13,396 --> 00:02:16,396 Speaker 1: and uh we were talking about something and you were like, 35 00:02:16,756 --> 00:02:18,276 Speaker 1: you know, it'd be easy if I just showed you, 36 00:02:18,796 --> 00:02:20,316 Speaker 1: and I was like, well, we don't got a guitar. 37 00:02:21,276 --> 00:02:24,476 Speaker 1: We got up, We walked around this office building, every 38 00:02:24,556 --> 00:02:28,156 Speaker 1: damn room. We found the most busted guitar missing, the 39 00:02:28,196 --> 00:02:31,036 Speaker 1: string wouldn't stay in tune. You tuned that thing up. 40 00:02:31,156 --> 00:02:33,116 Speaker 1: It was a miracle. I don't know how you tuned it. 41 00:02:33,196 --> 00:02:37,156 Speaker 1: Tune that thing up and played it like like Billboard is. 42 00:02:37,236 --> 00:02:41,996 Speaker 1: Jimmy Andrix combined was like the craziest thing. And that's 43 00:02:41,996 --> 00:02:43,676 Speaker 1: when I realized, I mean, I always knew you were 44 00:02:43,676 --> 00:02:47,556 Speaker 1: a great songwriter, great vocalist, great producer, great. But I 45 00:02:47,596 --> 00:02:49,916 Speaker 1: was like, wow, why Cleff is a player? Man? Like 46 00:02:50,196 --> 00:02:53,996 Speaker 1: y Clef is a musician a player, and not a 47 00:02:54,036 --> 00:02:55,756 Speaker 1: player in that way, but I mean a music player. 48 00:02:55,836 --> 00:03:02,916 Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but you really, you really are an incredible, 49 00:03:02,956 --> 00:03:03,836 Speaker 1: incredible musician. 50 00:03:03,956 --> 00:03:05,796 Speaker 3: And uh, you know, not. 51 00:03:05,756 --> 00:03:07,916 Speaker 1: Everyone, not everyone can just do that on a you know, 52 00:03:07,956 --> 00:03:10,196 Speaker 1: we just go find a random beat up, bust the 53 00:03:10,236 --> 00:03:12,156 Speaker 1: guitar with the missing stream and play it. 54 00:03:12,236 --> 00:03:14,596 Speaker 3: You know, what did you play that day? Do you remember? 55 00:03:14,636 --> 00:03:16,836 Speaker 5: I just tuned the guitar and then I just started 56 00:03:16,996 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 5: just playing, you know, playing chords, playing perfect fifths, just 57 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:21,836 Speaker 5: having fun. 58 00:03:21,916 --> 00:03:22,836 Speaker 1: Yeah. 59 00:03:22,876 --> 00:03:28,116 Speaker 5: But for me, like uh, instruments. It started for me 60 00:03:28,236 --> 00:03:31,796 Speaker 5: like in Haiti, I would say I left, I left. 61 00:03:32,156 --> 00:03:36,116 Speaker 5: Oh there's always one Haitian somewhere, so right, so that 62 00:03:36,236 --> 00:03:39,716 Speaker 5: that's why you see the flag. Yeah, but you know, 63 00:03:39,836 --> 00:03:41,796 Speaker 5: I say, like it starts for me in that small, 64 00:03:41,916 --> 00:03:42,756 Speaker 5: tiny village. 65 00:03:42,796 --> 00:03:43,836 Speaker 3: Man, how old were you when? 66 00:03:44,396 --> 00:03:48,076 Speaker 5: Like I was, I was like four, Like my aunt 67 00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:50,556 Speaker 5: will tell you like my first song was to my 68 00:03:50,716 --> 00:03:53,756 Speaker 5: straight Dogs. It's the worst, probably the worst song I 69 00:03:53,796 --> 00:03:56,876 Speaker 5: ever wrote. But tell us I'll tell you this song. 70 00:03:57,076 --> 00:04:00,876 Speaker 5: It's terrible. So what happened though, was I used to 71 00:04:01,076 --> 00:04:04,076 Speaker 5: in this village like straight dogs would constantly come and 72 00:04:04,116 --> 00:04:06,436 Speaker 5: I would feed them. And then one day it was 73 00:04:06,516 --> 00:04:08,996 Speaker 5: marti gra Carnival. And then so I put a bunch 74 00:04:08,996 --> 00:04:13,156 Speaker 5: of tar on me, like tar, like black tar you 75 00:04:13,156 --> 00:04:15,196 Speaker 5: gave your h So I was like, and then I 76 00:04:15,316 --> 00:04:19,596 Speaker 5: put a bunch of like rags and then just creating 77 00:04:19,596 --> 00:04:23,436 Speaker 5: an outfit for carnival, right, And then I'm out there 78 00:04:23,436 --> 00:04:26,756 Speaker 5: and then the dogs see me and they literally all 79 00:04:26,836 --> 00:04:30,356 Speaker 5: come to attack me because they couldn't recognize me. And 80 00:04:30,396 --> 00:04:32,116 Speaker 5: then when they jumped on me, and I was like 81 00:04:32,436 --> 00:04:40,396 Speaker 5: gulliblebib and then they all just started licking me. So 82 00:04:40,436 --> 00:04:42,836 Speaker 5: my aunt was like, that's his first song, the worst 83 00:04:42,836 --> 00:04:45,676 Speaker 5: song I've ever wrote, but saved my life. 84 00:04:46,196 --> 00:04:46,876 Speaker 1: What did it mean? 85 00:04:47,996 --> 00:04:52,796 Speaker 5: It was just the tone, right, because because the the 86 00:04:52,796 --> 00:04:57,236 Speaker 5: the music is built from vibration, So lyrics are what 87 00:04:57,276 --> 00:05:01,116 Speaker 5: we put afterwards. We just feel an expression, you know 88 00:05:01,156 --> 00:05:03,036 Speaker 5: what I'm saying before words, it's an expression. 89 00:05:03,196 --> 00:05:06,276 Speaker 2: So interesting then you're saying that the lyrics come afterwards. 90 00:05:06,476 --> 00:05:09,716 Speaker 2: When you're writing a song, are you thinking mel first 91 00:05:09,796 --> 00:05:11,276 Speaker 2: or are you thinking lyrics first? 92 00:05:12,156 --> 00:05:19,596 Speaker 5: It comes melody at times mostly melodies. Yeah, rap wise though, 93 00:05:19,636 --> 00:05:21,836 Speaker 5: because I was a battle rapper. That's how I learned 94 00:05:21,876 --> 00:05:25,636 Speaker 5: how to speak English words. Was fierce, you know what 95 00:05:25,676 --> 00:05:29,436 Speaker 5: I mean. So I would write raps depending on who 96 00:05:29,476 --> 00:05:33,636 Speaker 5: I'm about to battle. That's how I would write my schemes. 97 00:05:33,956 --> 00:05:37,556 Speaker 5: But when it came to like song writing, it all 98 00:05:37,596 --> 00:05:41,516 Speaker 5: came from the church. So I would just hear melodies first. 99 00:05:42,316 --> 00:05:43,076 Speaker 4: What kind of church? 100 00:05:44,076 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 5: So my dad grew up in Haiti when he came 101 00:05:48,476 --> 00:05:51,996 Speaker 5: to Brooklyn, it's a church of the Nazarene, so it's 102 00:05:52,156 --> 00:05:56,756 Speaker 5: very it's like Pentecostal. It's literally like club church, you 103 00:05:56,756 --> 00:05:58,636 Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, Like, if you missed the Club, 104 00:05:59,156 --> 00:06:01,236 Speaker 5: come to our church on Sunday, you're gonna get that 105 00:06:01,276 --> 00:06:03,036 Speaker 5: same energy. 106 00:06:05,596 --> 00:06:08,236 Speaker 1: It's incredible to say. But it's been thirty years since 107 00:06:08,276 --> 00:06:11,196 Speaker 1: The Score, which is for me, the Score one of 108 00:06:11,236 --> 00:06:15,396 Speaker 1: the foundational albums of this This is gonna be like 109 00:06:15,516 --> 00:06:17,636 Speaker 1: maybe blasphemings to certain people, but for me, when I 110 00:06:17,636 --> 00:06:20,636 Speaker 1: think about The Score, I think about it like it's 111 00:06:20,676 --> 00:06:23,836 Speaker 1: like hip hop's Abbey Road in the sense of there's 112 00:06:23,956 --> 00:06:27,876 Speaker 1: great music. There's great rock music after Abbey Road. But 113 00:06:27,956 --> 00:06:29,716 Speaker 1: it could have stopped there and we would have been fine, 114 00:06:29,756 --> 00:06:32,556 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And as much hip hop 115 00:06:32,596 --> 00:06:34,636 Speaker 1: came after the Score that I love, and I love 116 00:06:34,676 --> 00:06:36,916 Speaker 1: a lot of it. If we had just stopped right 117 00:06:36,916 --> 00:06:39,276 Speaker 1: there at the score, we was good. That was it, 118 00:06:39,316 --> 00:06:43,116 Speaker 1: I mean incredible and much like the Beatles too, the 119 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:46,636 Speaker 1: sum of all those parts man incredible. But I want 120 00:06:46,636 --> 00:06:51,156 Speaker 1: to play something real quick, because your first album blunted 121 00:06:51,156 --> 00:06:53,636 Speaker 1: on reality. You guys put it out and to your 122 00:06:53,676 --> 00:06:57,476 Speaker 1: point of being a battle rapper. It was very for 123 00:06:57,516 --> 00:06:59,516 Speaker 1: the people who know out there. Maybe this makes sense, 124 00:06:59,556 --> 00:07:02,436 Speaker 1: maybe doesn't. Very fool schnickings in a way. It was 125 00:07:02,476 --> 00:07:05,796 Speaker 1: heavy on the round underground, heavy on the boom, bat 126 00:07:05,916 --> 00:07:09,916 Speaker 1: heaving on the like you know, dope rhyme schemes and 127 00:07:10,076 --> 00:07:10,556 Speaker 1: is it okay? 128 00:07:12,556 --> 00:07:16,276 Speaker 4: You're kind? It sold two copies, Okay, I. 129 00:07:16,196 --> 00:07:19,996 Speaker 1: Didn't want to say it. But then Salon Remy did 130 00:07:20,156 --> 00:07:22,196 Speaker 1: the Nappy Heads remix and I want to play a 131 00:07:22,196 --> 00:07:24,356 Speaker 1: bit of that real quick, and this became a hit 132 00:07:24,396 --> 00:07:24,836 Speaker 1: for you guys. 133 00:07:25,516 --> 00:07:28,036 Speaker 4: Yo, Mona, Lisa, Could I get a date on Friday? 134 00:07:28,076 --> 00:07:32,796 Speaker 5: And if you're busy, I wouldn't in might takeing Saturday, hey, or. 135 00:07:32,756 --> 00:07:35,356 Speaker 4: I don't know, if did pass coming around the way. 136 00:07:36,276 --> 00:07:38,316 Speaker 1: Yeah, your head it was. 137 00:07:38,236 --> 00:07:40,876 Speaker 4: Shut what you got did? Can I guess some of 138 00:07:40,876 --> 00:07:41,516 Speaker 4: that lyric. 139 00:07:44,836 --> 00:07:45,316 Speaker 3: A cheap of. 140 00:07:45,356 --> 00:07:49,876 Speaker 6: Cheaper y'all, Well, I'm anaik briyall, y'all, darn darn a. 141 00:07:49,956 --> 00:07:54,596 Speaker 4: Cheaper cheaper y'all. Well, I'm a leak briyall y'all, y'all, y'all. 142 00:07:54,756 --> 00:07:56,916 Speaker 6: You on a battle swing my brink comand the man 143 00:07:57,036 --> 00:07:58,956 Speaker 6: like I was king, and all your dreams are right now, 144 00:07:58,956 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 6: all replica sleeping kink cling the box almost the face 145 00:08:01,676 --> 00:08:03,676 Speaker 6: and say I got tired as a fat lady, so 146 00:08:03,676 --> 00:08:05,116 Speaker 6: wat sing nobody own our pro but. 147 00:08:07,596 --> 00:08:08,076 Speaker 4: Lit by that. 148 00:08:08,156 --> 00:08:10,476 Speaker 6: So I'm your king died like that because I got 149 00:08:10,516 --> 00:08:13,436 Speaker 6: Saliza Moore girls convinsist. I was wanted to quote, but 150 00:08:13,476 --> 00:08:16,556 Speaker 6: now I'm killing with a good minute assassination on the kid. 151 00:08:16,476 --> 00:08:17,236 Speaker 4: From the Capitol. 152 00:08:17,316 --> 00:08:19,436 Speaker 6: I never played us Omar, but now I'm in general 153 00:08:19,556 --> 00:08:20,596 Speaker 6: Raw hospital. 154 00:08:21,156 --> 00:08:25,156 Speaker 1: And this is the first time classord that's that's not 155 00:08:25,316 --> 00:08:25,916 Speaker 1: that remix. 156 00:08:27,116 --> 00:08:31,436 Speaker 2: I ran back the nineties, spring back the nineties, so I. 157 00:08:31,436 --> 00:08:34,436 Speaker 1: Missed the ninety But that to me, when you listen 158 00:08:34,556 --> 00:08:38,396 Speaker 1: to the the Fuji's in order, like that's the first 159 00:08:38,436 --> 00:08:41,316 Speaker 1: time it sounded like you guys figured the sound out 160 00:08:42,196 --> 00:08:45,476 Speaker 1: like that sounds like what this like? That sounds like 161 00:08:45,556 --> 00:08:49,196 Speaker 1: the genesis of the score. And I never put it 162 00:08:49,236 --> 00:08:53,956 Speaker 1: together until I listened to Blunted in Reality Napihead's remix 163 00:08:53,956 --> 00:08:55,956 Speaker 1: and then the score back to back to back to 164 00:08:56,076 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 1: do this because it sounded at the time, it just 165 00:08:59,036 --> 00:09:02,356 Speaker 1: sounded like the score came out fully formed. Everyone immediately 166 00:09:02,396 --> 00:09:04,116 Speaker 1: loved it. And so where did this come from? And 167 00:09:04,156 --> 00:09:08,276 Speaker 1: I was wondering, did working with salam Remi on this 168 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:10,956 Speaker 1: Napyheads remix? Did that unlock something for the three of 169 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:11,916 Speaker 1: you guys creatively? 170 00:09:12,716 --> 00:09:12,956 Speaker 4: Yeah? 171 00:09:13,076 --> 00:09:15,636 Speaker 5: So I think the first part about it is so 172 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:18,956 Speaker 5: growing up in Jersey, we was raised with Cooling a Gang. 173 00:09:19,436 --> 00:09:23,916 Speaker 5: So the first Fuji album was produced by Kalise Beyond 174 00:09:23,956 --> 00:09:26,396 Speaker 5: from Cooling a Gang. So he's like the wizard. He 175 00:09:26,436 --> 00:09:28,356 Speaker 5: did jungle boogie and everything. 176 00:09:28,756 --> 00:09:29,316 Speaker 4: So at a. 177 00:09:29,316 --> 00:09:31,996 Speaker 5: Very early age, I think I was like fifteen sixteen, 178 00:09:32,516 --> 00:09:35,956 Speaker 5: so hanging Aroundalisekalise. 179 00:09:34,676 --> 00:09:37,596 Speaker 4: Took me in as a like a son. 180 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:40,676 Speaker 5: I was a jazz major in school, so he took 181 00:09:40,716 --> 00:09:43,316 Speaker 5: me in and he started he was like mister Mayagi, 182 00:09:43,396 --> 00:09:45,516 Speaker 5: so he would quiz me and give me all these chops. 183 00:09:45,836 --> 00:09:50,716 Speaker 5: So in the process Kalise was responsible for producing Blunding 184 00:09:50,796 --> 00:09:54,916 Speaker 5: on Reality. So what happens is there was a sound 185 00:09:54,916 --> 00:09:59,116 Speaker 5: out there, so Kalise was like, Okay, I know they 186 00:09:59,116 --> 00:10:01,356 Speaker 5: can rap, but we're going to get them in that sound. 187 00:10:01,596 --> 00:10:04,676 Speaker 5: The best way to explain my relationship with Salam Remy 188 00:10:05,156 --> 00:10:09,556 Speaker 5: it's like Ray Charles and Quincy Jones, because it's like 189 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:13,276 Speaker 5: I already had everything in my head, but I'm real 190 00:10:13,396 --> 00:10:17,476 Speaker 5: young and I'm doing beats quietly. So like when I 191 00:10:17,516 --> 00:10:21,356 Speaker 5: would go to Salaam, I would share with Salaam, like 192 00:10:21,436 --> 00:10:23,956 Speaker 5: what I'm doing, he would share with me. I actually 193 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:27,236 Speaker 5: went to see Salam first and then I bought Lauren 194 00:10:27,316 --> 00:10:32,996 Speaker 5: and praz over, so we had an idea of in 195 00:10:33,036 --> 00:10:34,756 Speaker 5: my head, like what I wanted to do, but it's 196 00:10:34,796 --> 00:10:35,636 Speaker 5: like cooling a gang. 197 00:10:35,676 --> 00:10:36,396 Speaker 4: What are you going to say? 198 00:10:36,436 --> 00:10:38,996 Speaker 5: You're gonna shut up and you're gonna eat the l 199 00:10:39,116 --> 00:10:42,356 Speaker 5: and figure it out. So they had a big studio 200 00:10:42,396 --> 00:10:45,396 Speaker 5: in West starring So every time we record, then I 201 00:10:45,516 --> 00:10:48,116 Speaker 5: go back to the hood. When I go back to 202 00:10:48,156 --> 00:10:51,636 Speaker 5: East Starringes, what was being recorded in the hills was 203 00:10:51,716 --> 00:10:55,116 Speaker 5: not sounding like what was coming out of the trunks. 204 00:10:55,436 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 5: So in the trunks, me and Jerry Wonder in the 205 00:10:57,356 --> 00:11:01,236 Speaker 5: book of basement. We was literally doing what was coming 206 00:11:01,356 --> 00:11:03,876 Speaker 5: out of the trunks. And this is one last part 207 00:11:03,876 --> 00:11:05,996 Speaker 5: that you had to know. So I ain't want to 208 00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:09,036 Speaker 5: sell dope. So I was like, yo, I gotta figure 209 00:11:09,036 --> 00:11:11,436 Speaker 5: out of hustle because the burger king wasn't working too 210 00:11:11,476 --> 00:11:14,316 Speaker 5: well for me, right, So what I did was like 211 00:11:14,396 --> 00:11:17,876 Speaker 5: I was like, well, everybody on the block they rapping. 212 00:11:18,436 --> 00:11:21,036 Speaker 5: So if we become our own versions of Doctor Dre 213 00:11:21,476 --> 00:11:23,596 Speaker 5: then we don't have to sell dope. We can just 214 00:11:23,796 --> 00:11:27,556 Speaker 5: charge them to do records. So in this concept, we 215 00:11:27,676 --> 00:11:32,356 Speaker 5: literally just started developing a pulse within that vibe. So 216 00:11:32,436 --> 00:11:35,116 Speaker 5: when we all went to see Salam, the first thing 217 00:11:35,156 --> 00:11:38,996 Speaker 5: Salam was like was like, y'all too talented? 218 00:11:39,916 --> 00:11:42,116 Speaker 1: Like y'all over talented, right. 219 00:11:42,036 --> 00:11:45,756 Speaker 5: Because in this industry too, Now you gotta keep it 220 00:11:45,796 --> 00:11:48,796 Speaker 5: stupid like one plus one got it equal to we 221 00:11:48,876 --> 00:11:50,316 Speaker 5: gotta do some knucklehead shit. 222 00:11:50,516 --> 00:11:52,556 Speaker 2: Did they throw out some ideas that they thought were 223 00:11:52,556 --> 00:11:53,196 Speaker 2: too talented? 224 00:11:53,756 --> 00:11:54,516 Speaker 3: They they just. 225 00:11:54,436 --> 00:11:58,676 Speaker 5: Felt like because this group, I mean, I played fourteen instruments, 226 00:11:59,076 --> 00:12:02,636 Speaker 5: you know, I'm a jazz head. I was scoring like 227 00:12:02,796 --> 00:12:06,836 Speaker 5: off Broadway stuff. Lauren was heading to Sister I too. 228 00:12:07,276 --> 00:12:10,636 Speaker 5: She just crushed the apollo so there was a lot. 229 00:12:10,876 --> 00:12:14,436 Speaker 5: It was like, yo, how do you break that? Because 230 00:12:14,556 --> 00:12:20,876 Speaker 5: you see in the industry, it's harder to break sophisticated talent, right, 231 00:12:21,196 --> 00:12:24,716 Speaker 5: you see the because when you have talent that don't 232 00:12:24,756 --> 00:12:28,356 Speaker 5: care about fame but care about artistry and will not 233 00:12:28,436 --> 00:12:30,396 Speaker 5: compromise it, it's like hard. You'll be like, okay, what's 234 00:12:30,436 --> 00:12:34,396 Speaker 5: the middle? And so it was like a Beach Street movie. 235 00:12:34,436 --> 00:12:37,076 Speaker 5: So Salam put on the beat and he was like, Yo, 236 00:12:37,796 --> 00:12:41,316 Speaker 5: just go in the booth and literally, now I'm about 237 00:12:41,316 --> 00:12:44,636 Speaker 5: to see a different style of production. So he puts 238 00:12:44,676 --> 00:12:47,076 Speaker 5: on the snappy head beats and I go into booth first, 239 00:12:47,796 --> 00:12:51,116 Speaker 5: and Salam has a tape where we're wrapping for twenty 240 00:12:51,196 --> 00:12:51,876 Speaker 5: minutes straight. 241 00:12:52,436 --> 00:12:54,716 Speaker 4: So Salam, you listening to this? 242 00:12:54,796 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 5: You got to drop this for the thirtieth year anniversary, 243 00:12:57,716 --> 00:13:02,396 Speaker 5: and it's this wizard Salam literally, so we left to 244 00:13:02,436 --> 00:13:05,876 Speaker 5: go to Europe. He went back and then he cut. 245 00:13:07,396 --> 00:13:11,276 Speaker 5: He cut the twenty minutes. It's literally three minutes and 246 00:13:11,316 --> 00:13:14,316 Speaker 5: thirty seconds. And then the minute he did the math, 247 00:13:14,956 --> 00:13:19,156 Speaker 5: something happened in my head too, and I said, oh, okay, 248 00:13:19,516 --> 00:13:20,876 Speaker 5: I understand. 249 00:13:20,516 --> 00:13:23,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, can I actually go a follow up on this song? 250 00:13:23,996 --> 00:13:28,356 Speaker 2: So it opens with you singing Mona Lisa, that melody, 251 00:13:28,876 --> 00:13:33,076 Speaker 2: that little ditty that motif ends up and an R 252 00:13:33,116 --> 00:13:35,476 Speaker 2: and B ballad that you make for your solo album, 253 00:13:35,516 --> 00:13:37,796 Speaker 2: The Carnival with the Neville Brothers. 254 00:13:37,876 --> 00:13:39,516 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, I'm very. 255 00:13:39,356 --> 00:13:44,396 Speaker 2: Interested in understanding how you take a motif like that 256 00:13:44,436 --> 00:13:48,556 Speaker 2: Mona Lisa riff and have it work for a rap 257 00:13:49,196 --> 00:13:52,556 Speaker 2: song with Silamam producing, and also an R and B 258 00:13:52,636 --> 00:13:53,956 Speaker 2: slow gem with another brother. 259 00:13:53,996 --> 00:13:55,716 Speaker 1: Play the Carnival vision of Mona Lisa Real quid just 260 00:13:55,716 --> 00:13:57,116 Speaker 1: so people get here with Sam's talking. 261 00:13:57,276 --> 00:13:58,796 Speaker 3: One of the greatest love songs. 262 00:13:58,796 --> 00:14:02,716 Speaker 1: This is, by the way, and just for context, one 263 00:14:02,796 --> 00:14:04,596 Speaker 1: year I want to talk about this too, one year 264 00:14:04,636 --> 00:14:08,796 Speaker 1: after the score recorded on tour, you know, promoting the 265 00:14:08,796 --> 00:14:11,516 Speaker 1: school on tour. Yeah, let's hear this. 266 00:14:16,876 --> 00:14:21,836 Speaker 4: My ticket Saturday, right about nine. 267 00:14:22,876 --> 00:14:25,516 Speaker 1: If you want your gee, you gotta hear the Nevills 268 00:14:25,556 --> 00:14:26,356 Speaker 1: on Thistle Up. 269 00:14:27,636 --> 00:14:29,956 Speaker 5: If you don't have a gee, if you have a 270 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:31,956 Speaker 5: little bode, I still want to the front. 271 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:39,276 Speaker 4: We want all the ladies fast, relax, let your hair out. 272 00:14:39,516 --> 00:14:41,356 Speaker 4: At least White Left. 273 00:14:41,196 --> 00:14:45,516 Speaker 5: Presents the Neville Brothers in the house tonight. 274 00:14:47,316 --> 00:14:47,876 Speaker 1: I knew. 275 00:14:49,916 --> 00:14:50,636 Speaker 5: She grew. 276 00:14:53,516 --> 00:14:54,156 Speaker 1: Incredible. 277 00:14:54,716 --> 00:14:59,156 Speaker 2: Whatever I can't take that same riff and make it 278 00:14:59,196 --> 00:14:59,876 Speaker 2: work in both. 279 00:15:00,116 --> 00:15:01,876 Speaker 1: I did a party file I'll cut the top Office, 280 00:15:02,396 --> 00:15:06,076 Speaker 1: but we heard it's all good. You know. 281 00:15:06,156 --> 00:15:09,316 Speaker 2: How do you so like when you're doing that, how 282 00:15:09,356 --> 00:15:11,436 Speaker 2: does your mind say? How does your mind know, well, 283 00:15:11,476 --> 00:15:14,276 Speaker 2: this one little riff, it'll be two different songs that 284 00:15:14,316 --> 00:15:14,956 Speaker 2: are very different. 285 00:15:15,036 --> 00:15:15,836 Speaker 3: Like walk me through that. 286 00:15:16,316 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say the best way to understand that is, uh, 287 00:15:20,156 --> 00:15:22,836 Speaker 5: in high school at fifteen years old, my music teacher 288 00:15:22,876 --> 00:15:26,716 Speaker 5: walks in and I'm playing piano and I'm doing circle 289 00:15:26,756 --> 00:15:29,476 Speaker 5: of fifths yeah, and she's like, where do you learn 290 00:15:29,516 --> 00:15:31,036 Speaker 5: that from? And I was like, oh, I just play 291 00:15:31,076 --> 00:15:33,636 Speaker 5: every day and trick and she was like, close your eyes, 292 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:36,236 Speaker 5: what do you see? And then I said, well, on 293 00:15:36,316 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 5: the right side of my eye, I see one, three, 294 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:41,956 Speaker 5: five and on the left side I see one five. 295 00:15:42,476 --> 00:15:45,476 Speaker 5: So I haven't read music. I didn't understand theory. So 296 00:15:45,516 --> 00:15:48,396 Speaker 5: she was like, tomorrow you're gonna start jazz and I 297 00:15:48,436 --> 00:15:51,116 Speaker 5: was like, nah, jazz ain't for me, it's for old people. 298 00:15:51,596 --> 00:15:53,436 Speaker 5: And I said, I'm gonna be a battle rapper like 299 00:15:53,596 --> 00:15:56,756 Speaker 5: L COOLJ. I got this thing figured out. And then 300 00:15:57,236 --> 00:15:59,516 Speaker 5: she was like, you could do both right, So now 301 00:15:59,596 --> 00:16:01,996 Speaker 5: when once I got into jazz and classical. 302 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:03,516 Speaker 1: Music because you were seeing scale degrees. The one three 303 00:16:03,556 --> 00:16:04,356 Speaker 1: five and the one five. 304 00:16:04,476 --> 00:16:07,916 Speaker 5: Yeah, y five is a try I one three five 305 00:16:07,996 --> 00:16:10,596 Speaker 5: and then the one five and the left hand. So 306 00:16:10,996 --> 00:16:14,676 Speaker 5: the numbers are the notes of a scale eight, and 307 00:16:14,716 --> 00:16:16,076 Speaker 5: it's like perfect harmony. 308 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:17,676 Speaker 4: Right, that's the happy one. 309 00:16:18,596 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 1: It's perfect. 310 00:16:19,396 --> 00:16:24,436 Speaker 5: So I was a happy baby someone saying that. So 311 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:29,156 Speaker 5: I fell in love with a few composers, Gershwin, cap Callaway, 312 00:16:29,636 --> 00:16:34,716 Speaker 5: Quincy Jones, Louis Armstrong. Now what did I give from that? 313 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:37,556 Speaker 5: So when you hear Yo Mona Lisa, can I get, 314 00:16:37,636 --> 00:16:39,796 Speaker 5: It's like, so let's go there, I go there, I 315 00:16:39,916 --> 00:16:41,396 Speaker 5: go there, right, go bye bye. 316 00:16:41,516 --> 00:16:41,716 Speaker 4: Right. 317 00:16:41,916 --> 00:16:46,636 Speaker 5: So in my brain when I do a composition, long 318 00:16:46,716 --> 00:16:51,036 Speaker 5: before the AI, it was I I have literally seven 319 00:16:51,196 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 5: different versions in my brain. 320 00:16:53,276 --> 00:16:54,796 Speaker 3: Of what this thinking, of what it is. 321 00:16:54,916 --> 00:16:55,156 Speaker 4: Right. 322 00:16:55,356 --> 00:16:56,756 Speaker 5: So it's like at the end of the day, I 323 00:16:56,756 --> 00:16:58,276 Speaker 5: could do a song and I can hear it in 324 00:16:58,316 --> 00:17:00,756 Speaker 5: a ballad form, and then I can hear it in 325 00:17:00,796 --> 00:17:02,436 Speaker 5: a house form, or I could hear it in the 326 00:17:02,476 --> 00:17:05,396 Speaker 5: reggae form. So all that time when I was hearing, 327 00:17:05,476 --> 00:17:07,996 Speaker 5: I was like, man, I'm obsessed with the meters. 328 00:17:07,996 --> 00:17:09,436 Speaker 4: I was obsessed with Aaron. 329 00:17:09,796 --> 00:17:11,476 Speaker 5: I was like, man, if I could get these guys, 330 00:17:11,716 --> 00:17:14,476 Speaker 5: that would be the R and B version of Mona Lisa. 331 00:17:14,596 --> 00:17:17,236 Speaker 2: Would there ever be another version of Mona Lisa today 332 00:17:17,236 --> 00:17:18,796 Speaker 2: that you made? And if so, what would it be? 333 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:20,956 Speaker 4: I don't know, Man, we got I think Burnap Boy 334 00:17:21,036 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 4: did a version of. 335 00:17:23,956 --> 00:17:28,476 Speaker 1: Its generation. Yeah, we'll be back with more from y 336 00:17:28,516 --> 00:17:35,636 Speaker 1: Cleff after the break. Going back real quick to uh 337 00:17:36,116 --> 00:17:38,676 Speaker 1: to that Salon Rummy story. So you learned? So you 338 00:17:38,676 --> 00:17:42,716 Speaker 1: you when you heard that cut down version of Nappyhead's remix, 339 00:17:43,316 --> 00:17:46,636 Speaker 1: were you you? Instantly? You weren't upset. You knew this 340 00:17:46,716 --> 00:17:48,236 Speaker 1: is what we need to be doing, Like this is 341 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:50,356 Speaker 1: the right he heard the magic, he cut it to 342 00:17:50,396 --> 00:17:52,676 Speaker 1: the right parts, and this is what we need to do. 343 00:17:53,276 --> 00:17:56,996 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean again, like I understood the math right, 344 00:17:57,156 --> 00:18:00,716 Speaker 5: so like my brain like it's like infinite math. 345 00:18:01,316 --> 00:18:04,836 Speaker 4: So but one plus one equals too. Like he just 346 00:18:04,916 --> 00:18:05,396 Speaker 4: taught me. 347 00:18:05,716 --> 00:18:08,836 Speaker 5: Salim taught me like, all right, if you're not gonna 348 00:18:08,876 --> 00:18:13,436 Speaker 5: be in in Carnegie Hall every week with your instruments 349 00:18:13,436 --> 00:18:15,636 Speaker 5: sitting amongst the orchestra, and you want to be in 350 00:18:15,716 --> 00:18:18,196 Speaker 5: the music business, this is how to go. 351 00:18:18,316 --> 00:18:19,356 Speaker 4: You got to figure it out. 352 00:18:19,556 --> 00:18:22,196 Speaker 5: Because Quincy Jones was doing the sinatra and all of that, 353 00:18:22,476 --> 00:18:24,396 Speaker 5: but then he figured out how to do the other thing. 354 00:18:24,476 --> 00:18:28,596 Speaker 5: So once Shalam did that, my eyes opened up. 355 00:18:28,956 --> 00:18:31,036 Speaker 1: So then what's the I know you got from the label. 356 00:18:31,076 --> 00:18:32,516 Speaker 1: You got a bit of an advance. You buy a 357 00:18:32,556 --> 00:18:35,076 Speaker 1: bunch of equipment, you put it in the basement, the 358 00:18:35,116 --> 00:18:37,796 Speaker 1: book of basement as you call it, the studio, And 359 00:18:37,956 --> 00:18:40,836 Speaker 1: what's the first thing you make then for Because you 360 00:18:40,876 --> 00:18:43,516 Speaker 1: produced all but two songs on the score, So what's 361 00:18:43,516 --> 00:18:46,196 Speaker 1: the first thing you do for that album? Okay? 362 00:18:46,316 --> 00:18:52,276 Speaker 5: So the equipment we got it from a garage cell really, so. 363 00:18:53,756 --> 00:18:54,516 Speaker 1: All the score okay? 364 00:18:54,596 --> 00:18:57,196 Speaker 5: Yeah, so everything you hear from the score, Me and 365 00:18:57,236 --> 00:19:01,036 Speaker 5: my cousin Jerry, and my other cousin. You know, he 366 00:19:01,436 --> 00:19:03,596 Speaker 5: funded us. He was like the chef, so he had 367 00:19:03,596 --> 00:19:06,636 Speaker 5: a higher up job and he funded us. So I 368 00:19:06,716 --> 00:19:10,396 Speaker 5: only tell you this so you understand how my brain works. 369 00:19:10,476 --> 00:19:13,436 Speaker 5: So we went to a garage cell music stunt. Now, 370 00:19:13,516 --> 00:19:16,396 Speaker 5: for my nerds that are watching this, let's just run 371 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:18,076 Speaker 5: through three things, which is important. 372 00:19:18,236 --> 00:19:19,916 Speaker 1: We bought a four five six. 373 00:19:19,756 --> 00:19:23,356 Speaker 5: Ampex rail big tape machine, so like when you be 374 00:19:23,396 --> 00:19:25,676 Speaker 5: seeing the Ferdie Mercury, and then they cut tapes for 375 00:19:25,676 --> 00:19:29,076 Speaker 5: the backgrounds. It was very important the tape machine. You 376 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 5: got twenty four tracks, right, the twenty fourth is the 377 00:19:32,076 --> 00:19:35,396 Speaker 5: sympthy that's where the noise come in and you try 378 00:19:35,436 --> 00:19:37,756 Speaker 5: to stay away from that. That was one we bought. 379 00:19:37,796 --> 00:19:40,276 Speaker 5: A second thing we bought was an old MCI board. 380 00:19:40,676 --> 00:19:43,116 Speaker 5: Shout out to one Riker, one of the engineers, and 381 00:19:43,156 --> 00:19:46,076 Speaker 5: this old MCI board just sounded warm, and then we 382 00:19:46,196 --> 00:19:49,876 Speaker 5: just built a bunch of patch base around that. Again, 383 00:19:50,236 --> 00:19:53,436 Speaker 5: we did this ourselves, like the way Steve job was 384 00:19:53,436 --> 00:19:56,116 Speaker 5: doing what was in his garage. It was like, why 385 00:19:56,836 --> 00:19:59,756 Speaker 5: go to pay a million dollars for a knave board 386 00:19:59,916 --> 00:20:03,396 Speaker 5: or an SSL when the soul is inside of your brain, 387 00:20:04,276 --> 00:20:07,196 Speaker 5: inside of your heart, right, So we just figured it out. 388 00:20:07,436 --> 00:20:09,556 Speaker 5: So in saying that, that's how that was the mystery. 389 00:20:09,636 --> 00:20:12,996 Speaker 5: So we did the score inside of that basement. And 390 00:20:15,156 --> 00:20:17,876 Speaker 5: you have to imagine this is thirty something years ago. 391 00:20:17,956 --> 00:20:22,036 Speaker 5: This is thirty years ago dating today. So now a 392 00:20:22,156 --> 00:20:25,796 Speaker 5: child like my daughter or my niece, they literally can 393 00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:29,356 Speaker 5: just pop their computer and do music right from wherever 394 00:20:29,356 --> 00:20:31,396 Speaker 5: they had around the world. So I just say that 395 00:20:31,476 --> 00:20:36,396 Speaker 5: to show you how advanced and how far ahead we 396 00:20:36,396 --> 00:20:40,036 Speaker 5: were when it came to the technology yeah, Yeah, what's 397 00:20:40,076 --> 00:20:40,556 Speaker 5: the first. 398 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:42,996 Speaker 1: Thing you make with all that You get the pass 399 00:20:43,036 --> 00:20:45,596 Speaker 1: base set up, you got everything together. What's one of 400 00:20:45,596 --> 00:20:47,636 Speaker 1: the first things at least that made the album that 401 00:20:47,676 --> 00:20:47,916 Speaker 1: you do. 402 00:20:48,636 --> 00:20:51,676 Speaker 5: I would say like along with that, I was obsessed 403 00:20:51,676 --> 00:20:55,396 Speaker 5: with Pink Floyd the Wall. I needed something that had 404 00:20:55,436 --> 00:20:57,756 Speaker 5: space in it, you know what I'm saying. So one 405 00:20:57,796 --> 00:21:05,996 Speaker 5: of the early joints was the Mask. Have you ever 406 00:21:06,076 --> 00:21:09,276 Speaker 5: won the Mask? And this is long before COVID, Like 407 00:21:09,396 --> 00:21:11,516 Speaker 5: rappers have a way of the same ship and then 408 00:21:12,076 --> 00:21:17,556 Speaker 5: years later they gonna be like he was Nustredamis. The 409 00:21:17,636 --> 00:21:20,076 Speaker 5: Mask was one of the early ones because of the 410 00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:22,156 Speaker 5: I don't know if it was like the jazz influence 411 00:21:22,196 --> 00:21:26,556 Speaker 5: and everything. It was pretty amazing. Shout out to John 412 00:21:26,596 --> 00:21:30,116 Speaker 5: Forte who we passed. Yeah, he was like, you know, 413 00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:32,716 Speaker 5: one of one of the architects with the score. Like 414 00:21:32,836 --> 00:21:34,476 Speaker 5: I would say, like the Score, it was like the 415 00:21:34,516 --> 00:21:39,436 Speaker 5: best of like Motown Stacks band. So we just used 416 00:21:39,476 --> 00:21:42,396 Speaker 5: to horn in and people always talk about so we 417 00:21:42,396 --> 00:21:45,036 Speaker 5: were the refugees and then on the other side of 418 00:21:45,116 --> 00:21:47,916 Speaker 5: town we had the outsiders. And then so you had 419 00:21:47,916 --> 00:21:52,396 Speaker 5: two different clicks, the outsiders. Eminem was part of the Outsiders, 420 00:21:53,116 --> 00:21:56,716 Speaker 5: then a Kon was part of the Refugees. So when 421 00:21:56,716 --> 00:21:59,916 Speaker 5: you hear Fuji La the remix, that's Akon. 422 00:22:00,076 --> 00:22:00,716 Speaker 1: Are you serious? 423 00:22:00,876 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 2: Yeah? 424 00:22:01,076 --> 00:22:04,676 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, am I I'm getting me on. Y'all don't 425 00:22:04,676 --> 00:22:06,436 Speaker 5: know everything, man, am I'm breaking trivia. 426 00:22:06,556 --> 00:22:06,796 Speaker 1: Yeah. 427 00:22:07,036 --> 00:22:11,636 Speaker 5: So, so Akon is like my little brother brother. So 428 00:22:11,756 --> 00:22:14,196 Speaker 5: we was working on the score. Akon used to come 429 00:22:14,236 --> 00:22:17,076 Speaker 5: around and be like, yo, man, listen to this, listen 430 00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:20,396 Speaker 5: to this, and he would be playing his music for me. 431 00:22:20,996 --> 00:22:23,716 Speaker 5: And but we're touring, and I was like, so before 432 00:22:23,716 --> 00:22:26,036 Speaker 5: we finished the score, I was like, yo, the score 433 00:22:26,076 --> 00:22:28,636 Speaker 5: cannot finish without putting this kid on it. And then 434 00:22:28,636 --> 00:22:33,356 Speaker 5: so now when you hear the Fujila remix, well not now, 435 00:22:33,396 --> 00:22:35,316 Speaker 5: when you go back and listen, that's Akon on that 436 00:22:35,716 --> 00:22:36,836 Speaker 5: So I only say that. 437 00:22:36,876 --> 00:22:37,636 Speaker 4: So we said that. 438 00:22:37,596 --> 00:22:40,996 Speaker 5: Akon and then Eminem Inem they crew MMM was part 439 00:22:41,036 --> 00:22:44,436 Speaker 5: of the Outsiders. Then when Eminem had left the Outsiders, 440 00:22:44,476 --> 00:22:47,236 Speaker 5: he went to Detroit to do what he's doing. When 441 00:22:47,276 --> 00:22:50,716 Speaker 5: we did the score, we bought in the Outsiders. So 442 00:22:51,356 --> 00:22:54,676 Speaker 5: we wanted to show that unity. So on this song Cowboys, 443 00:22:55,196 --> 00:22:59,076 Speaker 5: it's like the Refugees and the Outsiders like getting all together, 444 00:22:59,156 --> 00:23:02,156 Speaker 5: you know. John Forte and everybody. So it was pretty 445 00:23:02,156 --> 00:23:04,516 Speaker 5: so so there's a whole cool background of the history. 446 00:23:04,756 --> 00:23:06,796 Speaker 2: I just keep thinking about all of the names that 447 00:23:06,836 --> 00:23:11,996 Speaker 2: you're dropping, and you're in credit record of collaboration, you 448 00:23:12,036 --> 00:23:19,556 Speaker 2: know salam Remy Then, Nevil Brothers, Akon, Shakira, Whitney, Houston's 449 00:23:18,396 --> 00:23:24,756 Speaker 2: Destiny's Child. When you are deciding who to collaborate with 450 00:23:25,036 --> 00:23:29,956 Speaker 2: or fielding requests for collaboration, what is your north star 451 00:23:30,636 --> 00:23:32,556 Speaker 2: in deciding who to make music with? 452 00:23:32,996 --> 00:23:34,956 Speaker 3: Because you have a pretty good track record. 453 00:23:35,036 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 5: Yeah, no, thanks, I think that for me, I don't 454 00:23:38,156 --> 00:23:41,036 Speaker 5: even think of it like a collaboration. I've always thought 455 00:23:41,076 --> 00:23:43,476 Speaker 5: of it like how I could compose something for someone, 456 00:23:43,916 --> 00:23:46,556 Speaker 5: so like, for example, like you hear Shakira hipstone line, 457 00:23:46,956 --> 00:23:50,156 Speaker 5: but I did that to everybody heard Yah, But I 458 00:23:50,236 --> 00:23:53,156 Speaker 5: did that two years before Shakira. It was on a 459 00:23:53,236 --> 00:23:57,396 Speaker 5: movie called Havanah Knights Dance like this. So so so 460 00:23:57,716 --> 00:24:00,796 Speaker 5: a lot of my what I do is always based 461 00:24:00,836 --> 00:24:04,516 Speaker 5: on the mind of a composer. Now when I write 462 00:24:04,556 --> 00:24:08,076 Speaker 5: these records, I never think of myself because like if 463 00:24:08,116 --> 00:24:10,756 Speaker 5: for me, when I'm on music, I just think too deep, 464 00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:11,196 Speaker 5: you know what I mean. 465 00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:12,436 Speaker 4: I'd be like if I. 466 00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:15,596 Speaker 5: Was president then I get elected on Friday, they'd be 467 00:24:15,636 --> 00:24:17,476 Speaker 5: like that shit ain't gonna play on the radio. But 468 00:24:17,876 --> 00:24:21,316 Speaker 5: when it comes to artists, I'm always a fan and 469 00:24:21,316 --> 00:24:23,436 Speaker 5: then I would demo the record and that's how I 470 00:24:23,516 --> 00:24:26,156 Speaker 5: end up staying on a lot of that stuff. 471 00:24:26,436 --> 00:24:27,996 Speaker 3: How do you know when they say no to a collapse? 472 00:24:29,236 --> 00:24:31,756 Speaker 5: Well, the thing is I always say, I have to 473 00:24:31,796 --> 00:24:36,236 Speaker 5: be able to give something back to the artist, right, 474 00:24:36,676 --> 00:24:38,476 Speaker 5: and it's deeper than that, you know what I'm saying. 475 00:24:39,316 --> 00:24:42,756 Speaker 5: I was touched the other day when I received some 476 00:24:42,876 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 5: flowers from Beyonce, you know, and then she was like yo. 477 00:24:47,116 --> 00:24:49,756 Speaker 2: I mean they kind of like destiny should popped off 478 00:24:49,796 --> 00:24:50,956 Speaker 2: because of you an area. 479 00:24:50,996 --> 00:24:55,116 Speaker 5: But it was ill because there's a composer and be 480 00:24:55,396 --> 00:24:59,116 Speaker 5: understanding that, like I would perform. Then I bought them 481 00:24:59,116 --> 00:25:00,996 Speaker 5: on tour with me. But she would always be on 482 00:25:01,036 --> 00:25:04,036 Speaker 5: the side of the stage again right, watching the same 483 00:25:04,076 --> 00:25:07,076 Speaker 5: way I would watch the next person. So right, So 484 00:25:07,236 --> 00:25:10,796 Speaker 5: it has to be bigger than the collaboration. I've touched 485 00:25:10,796 --> 00:25:14,356 Speaker 5: people that I felt have got next. Like remember I 486 00:25:14,396 --> 00:25:16,596 Speaker 5: said they went from a dream to the Young Supremes. 487 00:25:17,156 --> 00:25:18,116 Speaker 4: That was pretty amazing. 488 00:25:18,356 --> 00:25:21,996 Speaker 5: Most intimidating person that I've ever been in the studio 489 00:25:22,796 --> 00:25:25,036 Speaker 5: like dog my boots was shaking. 490 00:25:26,076 --> 00:25:26,836 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston. 491 00:25:27,876 --> 00:25:29,836 Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about that because I personally 492 00:25:29,916 --> 00:25:32,556 Speaker 2: think that one of her best songs is My Love 493 00:25:32,636 --> 00:25:33,076 Speaker 2: is Your Love? 494 00:25:33,236 --> 00:25:37,436 Speaker 5: Yeah, man, tell me why I ain't gonna hold you 495 00:25:37,796 --> 00:25:41,396 Speaker 5: because it's like dog like we in the hood in 496 00:25:41,556 --> 00:25:43,636 Speaker 5: high school. You feel what I'm saying to you, and 497 00:25:43,676 --> 00:25:45,516 Speaker 5: were a bunch of bad kids and we like. 498 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:47,556 Speaker 4: I believe the children. 499 00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:51,036 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying to you. 500 00:25:50,956 --> 00:25:55,676 Speaker 5: You know it's like and I'm like, oh, you know missus. 501 00:25:55,716 --> 00:25:59,556 Speaker 5: Whitney's like it was just in the studio. She was amazing. 502 00:25:59,636 --> 00:26:02,516 Speaker 5: She was you know, so Clive hit me and I'm like, 503 00:26:02,556 --> 00:26:05,796 Speaker 5: you know, he's like, you're Clark. David's the record for Whitney, 504 00:26:05,916 --> 00:26:09,076 Speaker 5: and you know, as a church boy with the church, 505 00:26:09,596 --> 00:26:11,956 Speaker 5: it's right, and Whitney was going through something at the time. 506 00:26:12,356 --> 00:26:14,796 Speaker 5: And then so so you just said, how do you 507 00:26:14,876 --> 00:26:17,916 Speaker 5: know who to collaborate with? So I'm over here and 508 00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:21,276 Speaker 5: I'm writing this record if tomorrow's judgment day. So I 509 00:26:21,356 --> 00:26:25,316 Speaker 5: was like, I'm gonna write like a love note, you 510 00:26:25,396 --> 00:26:28,196 Speaker 5: know what I mean, like to to to God. And 511 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:30,436 Speaker 5: then so Whitney's writing a love note to God. It's 512 00:26:30,436 --> 00:26:34,516 Speaker 5: almost like she's in the gates. And then so I 513 00:26:34,836 --> 00:26:37,236 Speaker 5: send a demo and I'm like waiting, you feel what 514 00:26:37,236 --> 00:26:39,676 Speaker 5: I'm saying to you, and and finally you get the 515 00:26:39,716 --> 00:26:41,596 Speaker 5: call and then you know what I mean. And then 516 00:26:42,076 --> 00:26:43,556 Speaker 5: she's like, you know. 517 00:26:43,556 --> 00:26:46,956 Speaker 1: I don't like it? Why I don't like it? I 518 00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:47,476 Speaker 1: love it? 519 00:26:47,956 --> 00:26:48,116 Speaker 4: Right? 520 00:26:49,036 --> 00:26:51,636 Speaker 1: So me and Jerry one for you? 521 00:26:52,636 --> 00:26:54,156 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I hate the song. 522 00:26:54,236 --> 00:26:56,436 Speaker 5: No no, I loved it so so so in saying 523 00:26:56,436 --> 00:26:58,956 Speaker 5: that to me, that was like, you know what I'm saying, 524 00:26:58,956 --> 00:27:01,196 Speaker 5: like someone like you just idolize? 525 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:07,396 Speaker 1: That was probably yeah, yeah, hold on, but what was it? So? 526 00:27:08,236 --> 00:27:10,356 Speaker 1: I can't bring a Whitne and hold up? So what 527 00:27:10,356 --> 00:27:12,596 Speaker 1: what is it? When you're in the studio with Whitney? 528 00:27:13,116 --> 00:27:15,276 Speaker 1: How do you approach that? Because like the idea of 529 00:27:15,316 --> 00:27:17,916 Speaker 1: telling Whitney, yeah, let's do it this way. Maybe let's try, 530 00:27:17,996 --> 00:27:20,076 Speaker 1: Like I just how do you even you know, as 531 00:27:20,116 --> 00:27:22,236 Speaker 1: a layperson, how do you think to do that? 532 00:27:22,476 --> 00:27:22,636 Speaker 4: I do? 533 00:27:22,956 --> 00:27:26,236 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, I think, like, so Whitney, we like, you know, 534 00:27:26,276 --> 00:27:28,156 Speaker 5: we had it was like brother and sister in the 535 00:27:28,156 --> 00:27:33,356 Speaker 5: studio and I'm the choir director, so I know who's going. 536 00:27:33,316 --> 00:27:34,636 Speaker 4: To sing the lead? The soprano. 537 00:27:34,756 --> 00:27:37,996 Speaker 1: The so we have that the church just gave you. 538 00:27:38,156 --> 00:27:42,676 Speaker 5: So we had that church code connection right where we 539 00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:44,796 Speaker 5: wrapped out. But here's a crazy story. Y'all might have 540 00:27:44,876 --> 00:27:47,596 Speaker 5: heard it, or ya might not. So I'm doing I'm 541 00:27:47,596 --> 00:27:51,116 Speaker 5: doing this like I'm doing it right. I'm doing this joint. 542 00:27:51,956 --> 00:27:54,276 Speaker 4: And in the middle. 543 00:27:54,556 --> 00:27:58,876 Speaker 5: Of the record, right, it sound like to me that 544 00:27:58,996 --> 00:28:02,076 Speaker 5: Whitney dropped a note. 545 00:28:02,156 --> 00:28:03,596 Speaker 4: It sounded flat to me. 546 00:28:04,956 --> 00:28:06,276 Speaker 3: You heard Whatney's sounding flat? 547 00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:08,996 Speaker 1: What do you know? 548 00:28:09,756 --> 00:28:11,916 Speaker 2: Do you just think that and say, I can't be right? 549 00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:12,836 Speaker 3: She can't be flat? 550 00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:14,916 Speaker 1: Bro, listen, what did you do? 551 00:28:15,356 --> 00:28:19,436 Speaker 5: I was like, in my ear, I heard something was off. 552 00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:23,396 Speaker 5: And then so you know, as a producer, this is 553 00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:26,436 Speaker 5: where you have to make what I call the final call, right. 554 00:28:26,796 --> 00:28:28,716 Speaker 3: You gotta tell him you're literally right. 555 00:28:29,036 --> 00:28:32,796 Speaker 5: So you know I stopped everything. You know what I 556 00:28:32,796 --> 00:28:35,876 Speaker 5: mean and what I was telling you. Remember I said, 557 00:28:35,876 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 5: my legs started shaking cold sweat, you know what I'm saying. 558 00:28:39,076 --> 00:28:41,756 Speaker 5: And she's on the other side, and I'm like, miss 559 00:28:41,836 --> 00:28:45,636 Speaker 5: Whitney Houston, You're gonna have to do that one again. 560 00:28:45,716 --> 00:28:51,156 Speaker 5: It came out a little flat what she said. You 561 00:28:51,196 --> 00:28:55,956 Speaker 5: saw how silent it wasn't here, yo, sit got mad silent, 562 00:28:57,036 --> 00:29:00,836 Speaker 5: and I was like, I'm fucked. And then and then 563 00:29:01,356 --> 00:29:07,116 Speaker 5: she goes, baby, it's not flat. I bent the note 564 00:29:07,956 --> 00:29:14,676 Speaker 5: that bro I went back and she listened to the take, 565 00:29:15,396 --> 00:29:18,956 Speaker 5: and her ear was so advanced that the way I 566 00:29:18,996 --> 00:29:21,556 Speaker 5: was playing a major and minor the same way like 567 00:29:21,596 --> 00:29:25,556 Speaker 5: bb King with Ben the note inside of it. So 568 00:29:25,716 --> 00:29:29,396 Speaker 5: that literally, like till today, that was one of the 569 00:29:29,396 --> 00:29:31,716 Speaker 5: things that just blew my mind. 570 00:29:31,916 --> 00:29:33,076 Speaker 3: Yeah, Whitney's not flat. 571 00:29:34,116 --> 00:29:34,836 Speaker 4: Was never flat. 572 00:29:35,476 --> 00:29:37,156 Speaker 2: I heard that she really cuts up in the studio 573 00:29:37,236 --> 00:29:39,036 Speaker 2: like she has fun. She's a jolly old time in 574 00:29:39,036 --> 00:29:39,436 Speaker 2: the studio. 575 00:29:39,436 --> 00:29:40,476 Speaker 1: I've heard, you know. 576 00:29:40,796 --> 00:29:44,476 Speaker 5: My experience was one of the best experiences because I 577 00:29:44,556 --> 00:29:46,916 Speaker 5: had Whitney in the studio, I had Bobby, I had 578 00:29:46,956 --> 00:29:47,316 Speaker 5: the daughter. 579 00:29:47,356 --> 00:29:48,036 Speaker 4: I had all of them. 580 00:29:48,836 --> 00:29:52,556 Speaker 5: So she had so so and Bobby Brown and then 581 00:29:52,596 --> 00:29:57,236 Speaker 5: so So in the studio. The illest moment for me 582 00:29:57,596 --> 00:30:00,156 Speaker 5: was when Whitney was in the booth and she was 583 00:30:00,196 --> 00:30:03,276 Speaker 5: singing and her daughter was on the other side with me, 584 00:30:03,996 --> 00:30:05,996 Speaker 5: and then her door while her mom is singing, her 585 00:30:05,996 --> 00:30:08,636 Speaker 5: mom can't hear where she's going, and then she goes. 586 00:30:08,796 --> 00:30:11,036 Speaker 3: Sing saying mommy because that ends up in the track. 587 00:30:11,276 --> 00:30:15,236 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then so I just sample. I sampled her daughter. 588 00:30:15,276 --> 00:30:17,756 Speaker 5: I ain't even Whitney ain't even hear that till the 589 00:30:17,796 --> 00:30:18,556 Speaker 5: final version. 590 00:30:18,636 --> 00:30:22,476 Speaker 2: Wait, so you heard her daughter say sing mommy? 591 00:30:23,236 --> 00:30:24,716 Speaker 1: Were you recording in the control room? 592 00:30:24,876 --> 00:30:27,156 Speaker 5: So I have the control room, but I still always 593 00:30:27,196 --> 00:30:29,956 Speaker 5: have Mike's inside of my main room. But if you're 594 00:30:29,956 --> 00:30:32,636 Speaker 5: in the control room, Whitney can't hear. But her daughter 595 00:30:32,716 --> 00:30:33,916 Speaker 5: is cheerleading her mom. 596 00:30:34,196 --> 00:30:35,756 Speaker 4: She's like, sing mommy yeah. 597 00:30:35,756 --> 00:30:37,996 Speaker 5: And then I go, wow, I'm seeing I said what 598 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:41,476 Speaker 5: you say. And she don't know she's being recorded. So 599 00:30:41,556 --> 00:30:44,076 Speaker 5: I sat my engineer and she goes, sing mommy yeah. 600 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:46,796 Speaker 5: And then I saved that on a sample, and then 601 00:30:46,876 --> 00:30:50,316 Speaker 5: later I went up and I did that. So that 602 00:30:50,396 --> 00:30:55,196 Speaker 5: was pretty pret your mind, your mind pretty. 603 00:30:55,236 --> 00:30:58,796 Speaker 1: That's incredible. Well, not's break and we're back with y 604 00:30:58,836 --> 00:31:07,916 Speaker 1: Cleft Sean looking back, you make the score huge hit, 605 00:31:09,156 --> 00:31:13,396 Speaker 1: you're on the road, you're making the carnival, and for 606 00:31:13,396 --> 00:31:15,596 Speaker 1: whatever reason, I don't know, the group is sort of 607 00:31:16,556 --> 00:31:20,836 Speaker 1: not holding looking back on it, how would you counsel 608 00:31:20,876 --> 00:31:25,476 Speaker 1: yourself as y Cleft today to y Cleft back then 609 00:31:25,836 --> 00:31:29,796 Speaker 1: in terms of how to be a member of the 610 00:31:29,796 --> 00:31:31,396 Speaker 1: fujis in that moment? 611 00:31:33,116 --> 00:31:35,436 Speaker 5: Well, I mean, the thing is like, way before me, 612 00:31:36,476 --> 00:31:38,676 Speaker 5: there was people that made the same mistakes as me, 613 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:40,876 Speaker 5: Like you could read all about it, like it's it's 614 00:31:40,996 --> 00:31:45,316 Speaker 5: very clear. Even if I was to go back to 615 00:31:45,476 --> 00:31:48,836 Speaker 5: speak to the younger why cleft, the problem is you 616 00:31:48,916 --> 00:31:51,316 Speaker 5: can't go back and speak to your younger self. 617 00:31:51,436 --> 00:31:51,636 Speaker 4: Right. 618 00:31:52,036 --> 00:31:55,476 Speaker 5: What you do is within your present self, you're able 619 00:31:55,596 --> 00:31:59,036 Speaker 5: to give a young one that you see that has 620 00:31:59,076 --> 00:32:02,116 Speaker 5: that air and on the come up and you're like, yo, man, listen, 621 00:32:02,756 --> 00:32:04,516 Speaker 5: now these are a list of things that you should 622 00:32:04,636 --> 00:32:09,676 Speaker 5: not do moving forward. And but at the same time, 623 00:32:11,076 --> 00:32:16,316 Speaker 5: you see within the universe when the vulnerability of artists 624 00:32:16,356 --> 00:32:19,516 Speaker 5: and the honesty of artists. Right, So these thirty years, 625 00:32:19,516 --> 00:32:21,116 Speaker 5: there still was a healing process. 626 00:32:21,196 --> 00:32:22,796 Speaker 4: Right. Lauren's my sister. 627 00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:26,356 Speaker 5: You know, her kids are like, I'm uncle, why Cleff, 628 00:32:26,396 --> 00:32:28,716 Speaker 5: you feel what I'm saying to you. It's like to 629 00:32:28,836 --> 00:32:34,436 Speaker 5: be in such amazing place of love. Right, Sometimes it 630 00:32:35,116 --> 00:32:38,156 Speaker 5: takes because when you're young, right, and you have all 631 00:32:38,156 --> 00:32:41,796 Speaker 5: these super hero powers. Both of us we got superhero powers. 632 00:32:42,196 --> 00:32:44,636 Speaker 5: You don't understand the powers. As you get older, you 633 00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:46,716 Speaker 5: start to understand them more and more and more. So 634 00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:49,756 Speaker 5: I think like from a space of maturity, I wouldn't. 635 00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:53,196 Speaker 5: I couldn't go back. But what I do is all 636 00:32:53,236 --> 00:32:56,236 Speaker 5: of the young I call them superheroes that are gifted 637 00:32:56,276 --> 00:32:58,716 Speaker 5: that I work with within the context, I'm able to 638 00:32:58,716 --> 00:32:59,876 Speaker 5: give them better advice. 639 00:33:01,516 --> 00:33:07,956 Speaker 2: I always think about group dynamics and when a group 640 00:33:09,356 --> 00:33:12,636 Speaker 2: knows when to try to keep making it work and 641 00:33:12,716 --> 00:33:14,716 Speaker 2: to let it go and break up. And I always 642 00:33:14,796 --> 00:33:19,916 Speaker 2: think of the Fuji story in comparison to the saga 643 00:33:19,956 --> 00:33:24,076 Speaker 2: of Fleetwood Mac. Like the Fujis had drama and then 644 00:33:24,076 --> 00:33:27,676 Speaker 2: they broke up. Fleetwood Mac had drama and they just 645 00:33:27,716 --> 00:33:30,356 Speaker 2: stuck together and made an album about it. And the 646 00:33:30,476 --> 00:33:32,116 Speaker 2: drama and the breakups. 647 00:33:32,636 --> 00:33:34,396 Speaker 3: How do you know in. 648 00:33:34,356 --> 00:33:39,396 Speaker 2: A creative, collaborative partnership if it's worth saying we're gonna 649 00:33:39,396 --> 00:33:43,116 Speaker 2: stick through this and keep making art or we got 650 00:33:43,236 --> 00:33:43,636 Speaker 2: a break. 651 00:33:44,236 --> 00:33:47,956 Speaker 5: I mean, I would say it's like two different psyches, 652 00:33:48,596 --> 00:33:51,636 Speaker 5: Like Fleetwood Mac is a different psyche than we were, 653 00:33:51,956 --> 00:33:57,676 Speaker 5: ye and we grew up within different environments. Yes, and 654 00:33:57,716 --> 00:34:02,036 Speaker 5: then our dramas were completely different than Fleetwood Mac's drama. 655 00:34:02,116 --> 00:34:04,516 Speaker 5: So it's not even like when you get to the point, 656 00:34:05,116 --> 00:34:08,476 Speaker 5: I don't know, if y'all been watching twenty twenty five, 657 00:34:08,476 --> 00:34:11,436 Speaker 5: you've seen the food. She's on tour and if you 658 00:34:11,476 --> 00:34:13,836 Speaker 5: see us on stage, it's like old school Lakers. You 659 00:34:13,916 --> 00:34:15,316 Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, Like I don't have to look 660 00:34:15,316 --> 00:34:15,836 Speaker 5: at launch. 661 00:34:15,876 --> 00:34:17,436 Speaker 1: You know the past. 662 00:34:17,876 --> 00:34:18,956 Speaker 4: Everyone knows the past. 663 00:34:19,196 --> 00:34:23,036 Speaker 5: So but the what we do have and what we 664 00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:27,876 Speaker 5: all have always been conscious of is in order to 665 00:34:28,116 --> 00:34:31,156 Speaker 5: move the universe forward, because we always was like, we're 666 00:34:31,196 --> 00:34:32,916 Speaker 5: not going to be a group, We're going to be 667 00:34:32,956 --> 00:34:36,676 Speaker 5: a movement. In order to be a movement, they got 668 00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:39,756 Speaker 5: to be perfect harmony. So the day like we don't 669 00:34:39,756 --> 00:34:44,116 Speaker 5: feel perfect harmony, then the superpowers leave, right, and then 670 00:34:44,116 --> 00:34:47,196 Speaker 5: you're not able to create that thing because you literally 671 00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:50,036 Speaker 5: you know, like, yo, there's not a superpower there. 672 00:34:50,196 --> 00:34:51,596 Speaker 3: What does that feeling feel? 673 00:34:51,676 --> 00:34:51,796 Speaker 4: Like? 674 00:34:51,956 --> 00:34:54,276 Speaker 2: That knowledge feel like when you know the powers aren't 675 00:34:54,316 --> 00:34:55,516 Speaker 2: like like what you tell? 676 00:34:55,596 --> 00:34:57,036 Speaker 3: How do you spot it? How do you feel it? 677 00:34:57,076 --> 00:35:01,076 Speaker 5: I'm able to tell now because we've healed, you see 678 00:35:01,116 --> 00:35:03,556 Speaker 5: what I'm saying. So it's like we've healed, like me 679 00:35:03,596 --> 00:35:06,636 Speaker 5: and all were good, Like everything is dope. So it's 680 00:35:06,676 --> 00:35:09,876 Speaker 5: almost like Wolverine, like you shed skin and it's like 681 00:35:11,036 --> 00:35:14,556 Speaker 5: when when when you're after the wound and then after 682 00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:17,956 Speaker 5: the sacrifice, right, wow, and it happens and I don't 683 00:35:18,036 --> 00:35:21,516 Speaker 5: I don't think people understand like we were, like I 684 00:35:21,556 --> 00:35:25,116 Speaker 5: mean kids starts, Like even before you knew who we were, 685 00:35:25,916 --> 00:35:29,716 Speaker 5: we already was like off Broadway doing a musical called 686 00:35:29,756 --> 00:35:34,156 Speaker 5: Club twelve. So just to start off like that and 687 00:35:34,236 --> 00:35:38,476 Speaker 5: for us to be over thirty years and to look 688 00:35:38,556 --> 00:35:41,876 Speaker 5: like ourselves still be pretty bad, funny, sexy and all that, 689 00:35:41,876 --> 00:35:42,956 Speaker 5: that's not an easy job. 690 00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:45,756 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's struggling right now. 691 00:35:47,436 --> 00:35:48,276 Speaker 3: And I bring it up. 692 00:35:48,676 --> 00:35:52,076 Speaker 2: So I bring up this question of collaborating and knowing 693 00:35:52,076 --> 00:35:54,116 Speaker 2: when to break and when to stay in it because 694 00:35:54,156 --> 00:35:56,316 Speaker 2: a lot of the folks are at this conference are 695 00:35:56,676 --> 00:36:00,396 Speaker 2: audio creatives who are making all kinds of shows with people, 696 00:36:00,836 --> 00:36:04,036 Speaker 2: and those formulations of these teams might change, and there 697 00:36:04,076 --> 00:36:07,476 Speaker 2: are podcast breakups and makeups and shake ups. And it's like, 698 00:36:07,516 --> 00:36:11,476 Speaker 2: I wonder if you have any advice for creatives who 699 00:36:11,516 --> 00:36:15,476 Speaker 2: are working in partnership right now? You know how to 700 00:36:16,316 --> 00:36:18,476 Speaker 2: read the tea leaves stay in it or like know 701 00:36:18,556 --> 00:36:21,436 Speaker 2: when to leave it? Like what is whycha Lejean's creative 702 00:36:21,476 --> 00:36:22,436 Speaker 2: partnership advice? 703 00:36:22,676 --> 00:36:23,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, the biggest of advice. 704 00:36:24,196 --> 00:36:28,996 Speaker 5: So my partnership advice to all creatives is like this, 705 00:36:29,596 --> 00:36:33,476 Speaker 5: it's better you do one thing, say that one thing, 706 00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:37,916 Speaker 5: you'd be surprised how many people have only done one thing. 707 00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:41,196 Speaker 5: And that one thing, you know, it turns into an iPhone. 708 00:36:41,236 --> 00:36:43,076 Speaker 5: I'm just give you an example. You know, the one 709 00:36:43,116 --> 00:36:46,156 Speaker 5: thing turns into Microsoft, right, you know, the one thing 710 00:36:46,236 --> 00:36:51,156 Speaker 5: turns into the most amazing podcast. What happens is once 711 00:36:51,676 --> 00:36:58,516 Speaker 5: the synergy and the harmony is gone, you got to 712 00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:02,116 Speaker 5: move on because if you continue, then what you're thinking 713 00:37:02,156 --> 00:37:06,276 Speaker 5: about is something that's for profit now opposed to something 714 00:37:06,316 --> 00:37:08,996 Speaker 5: that you created. Because in the beginning, it was just like, Yo, 715 00:37:09,116 --> 00:37:12,316 Speaker 5: I want to create a movement to move people. So 716 00:37:12,476 --> 00:37:14,756 Speaker 5: I always say it's better that you do something one 717 00:37:14,996 --> 00:37:18,716 Speaker 5: one thing and you're amazed by it, and then synergy 718 00:37:19,556 --> 00:37:23,116 Speaker 5: don't lie, right, And if you don't feel that synergy, 719 00:37:23,916 --> 00:37:25,116 Speaker 5: you gotta keep it moving, man. 720 00:37:25,516 --> 00:37:28,396 Speaker 3: So trust the vibes. Listen to the vibes, trust the vibes. 721 00:37:28,516 --> 00:37:33,396 Speaker 1: Mone. You know, there's also you said, Sam, get this 722 00:37:33,396 --> 00:37:35,836 Speaker 1: wonderful list of people you collaborated with, and you mentioned 723 00:37:35,836 --> 00:37:37,876 Speaker 1: one person backstage who I didn't realize we had a 724 00:37:37,916 --> 00:37:40,956 Speaker 1: whole project with, who also gave you some advice back 725 00:37:41,156 --> 00:37:44,076 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, King of Pop, Man, about where we 726 00:37:44,116 --> 00:37:47,196 Speaker 1: are in today's future. So you told you if you 727 00:37:47,196 --> 00:37:49,716 Speaker 1: can tell what the King of Pop told you about 728 00:37:49,716 --> 00:37:52,076 Speaker 1: twenty years ago and how you're moving with that today. 729 00:37:52,716 --> 00:37:57,556 Speaker 5: Yeah, So so RP to the King of Pop Michael Jackson, 730 00:37:57,596 --> 00:37:57,996 Speaker 5: by the way. 731 00:37:58,476 --> 00:38:01,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't know who, leave the room. 732 00:38:01,596 --> 00:38:03,036 Speaker 1: Yeah. 733 00:38:03,196 --> 00:38:04,076 Speaker 4: Yeah. 734 00:38:04,236 --> 00:38:10,476 Speaker 5: So I would say again sometimes that I'll be saying 735 00:38:10,516 --> 00:38:13,196 Speaker 5: stuff and I'll be like, you know what I'm saying, Like, 736 00:38:13,516 --> 00:38:15,396 Speaker 5: because I don't feel like a lot of people get 737 00:38:15,916 --> 00:38:17,596 Speaker 5: what I'll be saying. You know what I'm saying to you, 738 00:38:17,636 --> 00:38:20,876 Speaker 5: because I'll be on another planet. And then so see 739 00:38:20,916 --> 00:38:22,436 Speaker 5: they lying and they're like, what is he talking about? 740 00:38:22,636 --> 00:38:27,356 Speaker 5: So I'm in the studio with Michael and Mike, you know, 741 00:38:27,436 --> 00:38:30,436 Speaker 5: and then and Michael is like, just real quick, you 742 00:38:30,476 --> 00:38:32,876 Speaker 5: know what I'm saying. So it's like he's in the 743 00:38:32,876 --> 00:38:47,076 Speaker 5: studio and it's second du right, and and he said, 744 00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:47,636 Speaker 5: did you get that? 745 00:38:47,836 --> 00:38:51,636 Speaker 4: No, you know what I'm saying. The orchestra lives in 746 00:38:51,676 --> 00:38:52,036 Speaker 4: your head. 747 00:38:54,036 --> 00:38:55,436 Speaker 1: The orchestra lives in your head. 748 00:38:55,876 --> 00:38:58,556 Speaker 5: And as long as you can take what's in your head, 749 00:38:59,316 --> 00:39:01,516 Speaker 5: you don't even have to say it. You can think 750 00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:08,116 Speaker 5: it and the machine will spit it back to you. 751 00:39:08,516 --> 00:39:09,956 Speaker 1: Michael, you know, cleft. 752 00:39:10,596 --> 00:39:15,316 Speaker 5: I'm working on this this other album. It's called Binaural. 753 00:39:15,436 --> 00:39:17,756 Speaker 5: You ever heard of by Noural No, He's like yo. 754 00:39:18,276 --> 00:39:21,156 Speaker 5: As we move towards the future, people will be able 755 00:39:21,196 --> 00:39:25,036 Speaker 5: to hear music like it sounds like it's coming from 756 00:39:25,036 --> 00:39:29,436 Speaker 5: a theater, but it will be like movie music. But 757 00:39:29,476 --> 00:39:31,196 Speaker 5: they'll be able to hear from their headphones. 758 00:39:31,956 --> 00:39:35,076 Speaker 4: Fast forward today. Where we at today? 759 00:39:35,476 --> 00:39:35,876 Speaker 6: You have. 760 00:39:37,756 --> 00:39:42,916 Speaker 5: AI, right, and so the thing about it is, you 761 00:39:42,956 --> 00:39:46,476 Speaker 5: know backstage, you know I use you. You almost punched 762 00:39:46,476 --> 00:39:48,956 Speaker 5: me in my face when I told you, like, you know, 763 00:39:49,396 --> 00:39:50,516 Speaker 5: I'm deep into AI. 764 00:39:51,236 --> 00:39:53,836 Speaker 1: But we were going we're going back and forth on that. 765 00:39:54,276 --> 00:39:57,476 Speaker 5: But here's here go the game. Okay, So there's AI 766 00:39:57,636 --> 00:40:01,996 Speaker 5: and then there's Ia. Ia is me intelligent Alpha. That's 767 00:40:01,996 --> 00:40:04,676 Speaker 5: what we all are, like, we're the source of everything. 768 00:40:05,236 --> 00:40:08,996 Speaker 5: So at the end of the day, to my twelve 769 00:40:09,516 --> 00:40:16,396 Speaker 5: niece arriving to day, is a new way that the 770 00:40:16,436 --> 00:40:20,276 Speaker 5: future will do music. There's a new way that the 771 00:40:20,276 --> 00:40:21,796 Speaker 5: filmmakers will make film. 772 00:40:22,836 --> 00:40:23,036 Speaker 4: Right. 773 00:40:23,596 --> 00:40:27,396 Speaker 5: There will always be bad actors in a room because 774 00:40:27,436 --> 00:40:30,516 Speaker 5: within everything, Like when the computer wave was going on, 775 00:40:30,556 --> 00:40:31,516 Speaker 5: there was bad actors. 776 00:40:31,716 --> 00:40:32,316 Speaker 4: When we was. 777 00:40:32,316 --> 00:40:37,956 Speaker 5: Going from no more physical records to digital and then too, 778 00:40:38,036 --> 00:40:40,836 Speaker 5: streams were always gonna have bad actors. I think that 779 00:40:41,076 --> 00:40:46,076 Speaker 5: our responsibility of as the human is to never lose 780 00:40:46,196 --> 00:40:49,636 Speaker 5: our soul, right, because the only thing that the machine 781 00:40:49,676 --> 00:40:53,356 Speaker 5: will not be able to duplicate is your soul. So inside, 782 00:40:53,476 --> 00:40:56,396 Speaker 5: when I have like my niece and everything, she does 783 00:40:56,476 --> 00:40:59,676 Speaker 5: everything with her computer. But when I'm sitting there and 784 00:40:59,716 --> 00:41:01,796 Speaker 5: she's like, yo, oh, could you grab that guitar and 785 00:41:01,796 --> 00:41:06,236 Speaker 5: play something, that physicality of the human. 786 00:41:07,476 --> 00:41:08,436 Speaker 4: You can't replace that. 787 00:41:09,156 --> 00:41:12,156 Speaker 1: So you're not you are using AI as a tool, 788 00:41:12,436 --> 00:41:16,796 Speaker 1: but not scared about it replacing the human creative spirit. 789 00:41:17,276 --> 00:41:20,116 Speaker 5: Well, I'm using it as a tool because how is 790 00:41:20,236 --> 00:41:22,956 Speaker 5: music created? Right, y'all y'all see the final product. But 791 00:41:23,036 --> 00:41:25,796 Speaker 5: if I bring y'all into my studio, y'all going to 792 00:41:25,836 --> 00:41:28,716 Speaker 5: be like, oh, this looked like Star Trek. Right, it's 793 00:41:28,836 --> 00:41:31,196 Speaker 5: called there's a lot of equipment, and the equipment is 794 00:41:31,196 --> 00:41:35,276 Speaker 5: called hardware. Then the hardware get converted into software. You know, 795 00:41:35,396 --> 00:41:37,876 Speaker 5: my DJ friends, we used to carry like ten thousand 796 00:41:37,956 --> 00:41:40,756 Speaker 5: crates and then it gets converted into the computer. So 797 00:41:40,796 --> 00:41:43,476 Speaker 5: at the end of the day, you use AI as 798 00:41:43,516 --> 00:41:46,556 Speaker 5: a tool. I teach my students I am the master 799 00:41:46,596 --> 00:41:49,396 Speaker 5: of AI. AI is not the master of I therefore 800 00:41:49,476 --> 00:41:53,116 Speaker 5: I am I. So it has to be your slave, right. 801 00:41:53,236 --> 00:41:56,356 Speaker 5: The problem is if you if you become the slave 802 00:41:56,836 --> 00:41:58,636 Speaker 5: of the robot, then it's over for you. 803 00:41:58,796 --> 00:42:00,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know where you gotta go, But I gotta 804 00:42:00,476 --> 00:42:02,356 Speaker 2: just ask you one question. As a fan of rap 805 00:42:02,356 --> 00:42:05,596 Speaker 2: and a lover of rap, I see all these headlines 806 00:42:05,636 --> 00:42:10,356 Speaker 2: about rap being dead or dying. I hear some of 807 00:42:10,396 --> 00:42:12,956 Speaker 2: the newer artists today, and I'm like, you not like 808 00:42:12,996 --> 00:42:16,516 Speaker 2: it used to be? Why left as a legend of 809 00:42:16,516 --> 00:42:19,756 Speaker 2: the field. Do you feel positively or negatively about the 810 00:42:19,796 --> 00:42:20,716 Speaker 2: current state of rap? 811 00:42:21,356 --> 00:42:24,356 Speaker 5: I got seven albums coming out starting in April all 812 00:42:24,396 --> 00:42:27,996 Speaker 5: the way to October. I think that rap is part 813 00:42:27,996 --> 00:42:31,916 Speaker 5: of hip hop and hip hop. The culture is only 814 00:42:31,916 --> 00:42:35,796 Speaker 5: getting stronger and stronger all around the world, and I 815 00:42:35,876 --> 00:42:38,396 Speaker 5: believe in the future. I'm gonna do my part, and 816 00:42:38,436 --> 00:42:42,636 Speaker 5: I'm very excited about some of the future young artists 817 00:42:42,636 --> 00:42:44,436 Speaker 5: that are coming out. You know, we just got to 818 00:42:44,476 --> 00:42:47,436 Speaker 5: make sure that they get that space. The algorithm can't 819 00:42:47,556 --> 00:42:50,956 Speaker 5: keep pushing one form of hip hop in America, right, 820 00:42:51,276 --> 00:42:54,676 Speaker 5: We need that multiple because hip hop in France is 821 00:42:54,716 --> 00:42:56,476 Speaker 5: sounding like it sounded in the nineties. 822 00:42:56,556 --> 00:42:56,716 Speaker 4: Right. 823 00:42:57,116 --> 00:43:00,996 Speaker 5: What we're pushing here is the algorithms are just more 824 00:43:01,076 --> 00:43:03,356 Speaker 5: towards one thing, and we have to go back to 825 00:43:03,396 --> 00:43:06,476 Speaker 5: that eclectic well and not just that. 826 00:43:06,516 --> 00:43:08,876 Speaker 2: It's like I watch and I have this theory. I 827 00:43:08,876 --> 00:43:12,156 Speaker 2: think that like every rapper of note in America right now, 828 00:43:12,196 --> 00:43:14,476 Speaker 2: the men, the boys aren't having fun. 829 00:43:14,876 --> 00:43:18,556 Speaker 5: Are you already watch this? I'm gonna get to twenty one. 830 00:43:18,996 --> 00:43:21,276 Speaker 5: I'm the one. I know what y'all thinking. 831 00:43:21,316 --> 00:43:21,716 Speaker 4: Me too. 832 00:43:22,276 --> 00:43:24,556 Speaker 5: In my game of numbers, they could only be a few. 833 00:43:24,676 --> 00:43:26,436 Speaker 5: I am the Trinity. Guess the riddle? 834 00:43:26,516 --> 00:43:28,076 Speaker 4: Kids? One man on two sticks? 835 00:43:28,076 --> 00:43:32,836 Speaker 5: What's that the crucifix? At least that's what they taught 836 00:43:32,836 --> 00:43:35,676 Speaker 5: me in Sunday School. Forgive my foes. Fives pointed at 837 00:43:35,676 --> 00:43:39,076 Speaker 5: Pinocchio's nose. Skip to six, Go to seven. That's the 838 00:43:39,196 --> 00:43:42,796 Speaker 5: number of completion. Adam ate the apples, so they cast 839 00:43:42,836 --> 00:43:45,436 Speaker 5: them from the garden to Eden. Jealousy got him waving 840 00:43:45,516 --> 00:43:48,876 Speaker 5: his nine King kills Abel he attend man, you know 841 00:43:49,156 --> 00:43:51,636 Speaker 5: his heart pump soil. Two ones ain't enough to make 842 00:43:51,676 --> 00:43:54,396 Speaker 5: it ring Michael phone check one two rap lips in 843 00:43:54,476 --> 00:43:57,116 Speaker 5: my vein. I'm from the ever Dude's scrap with they 844 00:43:57,156 --> 00:43:59,796 Speaker 5: hands play Friday to thirteen, Get Cobra. 845 00:43:59,596 --> 00:44:00,636 Speaker 4: Klutch or body slamm. 846 00:44:00,636 --> 00:44:03,596 Speaker 5: But my nephews they don't use they hands in fourteens, 847 00:44:03,716 --> 00:44:07,916 Speaker 5: m fifteen's guns and roses pointed at your sweet sixteen. 848 00:44:07,996 --> 00:44:10,196 Speaker 5: I was born on our tour with seventeen. That's the 849 00:44:10,276 --> 00:44:13,196 Speaker 5: day they killed my lead up, Jean Jacques Ile And 850 00:44:13,196 --> 00:44:15,436 Speaker 5: then my mama told me there's monsters under my b 851 00:44:15,636 --> 00:44:18,996 Speaker 5: They eighteens think Malcolm X. The nineteenth thought was about 852 00:44:18,996 --> 00:44:22,516 Speaker 5: any means. Twenty twenty vision they say the good die young. 853 00:44:22,636 --> 00:44:25,476 Speaker 5: I am the master of AI. AI is not the 854 00:44:25,516 --> 00:44:28,276 Speaker 5: master of I. I did this freestyle to show you 855 00:44:28,316 --> 00:44:30,436 Speaker 5: how I made it past twenty one. 856 00:44:31,196 --> 00:44:33,716 Speaker 1: Yes, Ali mans It. 857 00:44:35,076 --> 00:44:39,196 Speaker 2: Sam Sanders, Justin Richmond, w John, Oh my God. 858 00:44:45,716 --> 00:44:53,836 Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist 859 00:44:53,836 --> 00:44:56,396 Speaker 1: of our favorite way Cleft songs, along with some of 860 00:44:56,436 --> 00:44:58,996 Speaker 1: his new music. Be sure to check out YouTube dot 861 00:44:59,036 --> 00:45:02,596 Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record podcast to see all of our interviews, 862 00:45:02,916 --> 00:45:04,916 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the 863 00:45:04,916 --> 00:45:07,796 Speaker 1: Broken Record pot. Broken Record is produced and edited by 864 00:45:07,876 --> 00:45:10,996 Speaker 1: Leah Rohodse with marketing health from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. 865 00:45:11,116 --> 00:45:14,636 Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record is a production 866 00:45:14,676 --> 00:45:17,396 Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others 867 00:45:17,396 --> 00:45:21,036 Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is 868 00:45:21,036 --> 00:45:23,956 Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free 869 00:45:23,996 --> 00:45:26,596 Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin 870 00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:30,036 Speaker 1: Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you like this show, 871 00:45:30,076 --> 00:45:32,076 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your 872 00:45:32,076 --> 00:45:35,716 Speaker 1: podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.