WEBVTT - Elliot Scheiner

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome back to the bob Lefsets Podcast. My guest

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<v Speaker 1>today is engineer and producer Elliott Shiner. Elliott, you and

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<v Speaker 1>your compatriots are having these gigs in New York. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell me about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, you know, you've been in the business so

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<v Speaker 2>long and after fifty years of recording music, there are

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<v Speaker 2>some amazing stories that go with it. Stories said nobody's heard.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe a few engineers' friends have heard the stories, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, some of them are so bizarre. And we

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<v Speaker 2>go on stage and we talk about the various experiences

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<v Speaker 2>that we've had, like George. You spoke to George well

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<v Speaker 2>ago and he had like amazing experiences with earth, wind

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<v Speaker 2>and fire, and now we're hearing for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>I hadn't heard any of that stuff that George talked about.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did this come together?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, do you know anything about med Alliance?

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<v Speaker 1>I do, but my audience give them an explanation.

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<v Speaker 2>Med Alliance is a group of engineers producers. There's seven

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<v Speaker 2>of us and originally it was Al Schmidt at Journey, Philomone, Frank,

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<v Speaker 2>Philip Petty, George, Me and I'm forgetting one and somebody

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<v Speaker 2>else and we got together. It was a thing we

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to get together to help improve audio, help determine

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<v Speaker 2>what was actually good for engineers. You know, you could

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<v Speaker 2>buy this piece of gear and it'll help you.

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<v Speaker 3>So we were.

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<v Speaker 2>Testing out pieces of gear and trying to determine whether

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<v Speaker 2>it was okay for engineers on professional level. And we

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<v Speaker 2>did and that's all we did for twenty years. And

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<v Speaker 2>I had come up with the idea, probably ten years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>why don't we do this. We tell stories to each other,

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<v Speaker 2>why don't we tell it to an audience. And the

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<v Speaker 2>policy of META is everyone has to agree. If you

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<v Speaker 2>don't agree, it's off table. So at that point I

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<v Speaker 2>was getting pretty old, and I mean he was still

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<v Speaker 2>working and doing great work, but he said, going out

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<v Speaker 2>on the road and doing this for people, not going

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<v Speaker 2>to do that, And so we put it in the can.

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<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately Al died and Trinity died, Phil Ramone died, and

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<v Speaker 2>it came up about two years ago and I suggested

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<v Speaker 2>it to the new group. It was me, George, Frank Chuck,

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<v Speaker 2>and Frank Check and that was it. We brought on

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<v Speaker 2>Sylvia Massey, Jimmy Douglas, and Nicole Bowls and everybody agreed.

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<v Speaker 2>We wanted to do it, and we did our first

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<v Speaker 2>performance in Ridgefield, Connecticut at the Ridgefield Playhouse and it

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<v Speaker 2>was huge.

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<v Speaker 1>It was great.

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<v Speaker 2>The place was filled, they were all laughing, having a

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<v Speaker 2>great time. And it was our first performance. There really

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't much of a rehearsal and there was screw up,

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<v Speaker 2>but it all came off great. It was natural. So

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<v Speaker 2>we decided to warn that up again. And here we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're playing for a couple of weeks at the

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<v Speaker 1>she and Theater. Yes, what are the logistics? How did

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<v Speaker 1>you end up there? How did you decide how long

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<v Speaker 1>you were going to play?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? I had been in the theater once before and

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<v Speaker 2>I saw a van there and was amazed with the

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<v Speaker 2>way it looked, the way it sounded. It had for

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<v Speaker 2>it only seats two eighty three, but it has a

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<v Speaker 2>full personum stage. I mean, it's an amazing stage. So

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<v Speaker 2>we have everything we needed, we need, video, drop down screens.

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<v Speaker 2>Everything was in place, and we thought, let's do it,

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<v Speaker 2>and we booked a theater. We did. We weren't hired

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<v Speaker 2>as an act come in and we delayed a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of weeks and we start on Thursday, and so that

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<v Speaker 2>Thursday and Friday Valentine's is almost Soliah. We're having a

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<v Speaker 2>great time.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. Is it going to be the same show every night?

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<v Speaker 2>No? I mean I've got fifty stories to tell, so no,

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<v Speaker 2>not at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So theoretically someone could go every night and get

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<v Speaker 1>a different experience.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, how did you decide? Okay, is anybody going to

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<v Speaker 1>tell a story on stage that the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>group has never heard? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've only heard two stories from each person, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's forty eight more from me. Ha ha.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, how many stories are you going to tell?

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<v Speaker 2>With the length of each story, it's about two tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>So how did you decide what to you wanted to tell?

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<v Speaker 2>I usually pick what's funny, what got me into trouble?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? I had a date one time with Chuck Berry.

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<v Speaker 2>It was for a commercial, but it was also a

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<v Speaker 2>documentary and we didn't finish at A and R, and

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<v Speaker 2>I got a call from the advertising agency asking if

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<v Speaker 2>I would go down to Saint Louis and work with

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<v Speaker 2>the finish up couple of overdubs who checked down there,

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<v Speaker 2>and I did, so I go down there. And this

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<v Speaker 2>was in the days when somebody could meet you at

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<v Speaker 2>the gate. And Chuck met me at the gate and

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<v Speaker 2>he's standing opposite the gate that came in on and

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<v Speaker 2>he was up against the side of an escalator and

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<v Speaker 2>he had his hand around a young girl, young blonde.

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<v Speaker 2>She was probably half his size, and she was really beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>And I go over and we say hi, and he said,

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<v Speaker 2>you're sleeping at my place tonight and then in the

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<v Speaker 2>morning we'll go to my studio in Saint Louis. I said, okay, fine,

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<v Speaker 2>so we go off to his place. He's now he's

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<v Speaker 2>got a car. We used to call him when they

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<v Speaker 2>came out Pimpmo Hills. They had like plastic a plastic

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<v Speaker 2>bubble over the driver's seat and passenger seat and it

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<v Speaker 2>just looked it was a Cadillac. It'll look hideous, but

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<v Speaker 2>he had one of these gut in. We drive up

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<v Speaker 2>to Chuck's house and there's it's huge, I mean it's

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<v Speaker 2>really huge, and there's a gate. It opens up. You

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<v Speaker 2>go into a small area where there's another gate, so

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<v Speaker 2>the front gate closes, the next gate opens up and

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<v Speaker 2>you drive up this path. Where where did you grow

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<v Speaker 2>up up?

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up in Connecticut.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you ever go to the Catskills, of course. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>driving up this path was like going to a hotel

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<v Speaker 2>in Ellenville. And we're driving up and there's a tennis

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<v Speaker 2>court on the left hand side, but the weeds are

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<v Speaker 2>eight feet high. On the right hand side is a

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<v Speaker 2>swimming pool and the weeds are the same. So we

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<v Speaker 2>get up there and I'm looking at this house and

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like a hotel. We get up to the

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<v Speaker 2>front door and a girl comes out. She doesn't lift

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<v Speaker 2>her head, she just faces the down, looks at the floor.

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<v Speaker 2>She opens everybody's door, everybody gets out. We go into

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<v Speaker 2>the house and it was like walking into a lobby

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<v Speaker 2>of a Catskill hotel. There was purple shag carpeting about

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<v Speaker 2>three inches high on the floors, but he built in

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<v Speaker 2>the kitchen as you walk in there. We sat down,

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<v Speaker 2>we talked for a bit and he said, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>remember the girl's name, the one who looked down at

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<v Speaker 2>the ground, but he said, she's going to take you

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<v Speaker 2>to your room. And we go in another part of

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<v Speaker 2>the house and there are a whole bunch of rooms.

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<v Speaker 2>So I go into this one room and it's the

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<v Speaker 2>same carpeting on the floor, but the bed themselves had

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<v Speaker 2>bedspreads that were purple shag carpeting, and I walk in

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<v Speaker 2>there and there are two double beds in there, and

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<v Speaker 2>she still hasn't lifted her head. I have no idea

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<v Speaker 2>who this person is. And she says to me, you'll

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<v Speaker 2>be all right. I'll come back a little later and

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<v Speaker 2>give you some information, okay. So she leaves and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>in the room and I'm thinking something feels wrong here.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what it is. I looked round the room,

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<v Speaker 2>either cameras or I couldn't find anything, you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>hell with it. I got undressed, went to bed. About

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<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes later, there's a knock on my door. I

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<v Speaker 2>get up, I opened the door. It's this girl again.

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<v Speaker 2>She's still looking at the floor and she says to me,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm letting out the dogs. Don't open your window, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and made sure the window was closing through. I got

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<v Speaker 2>back at the bed, thinking I think this girl's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>come and chop my head off during the night. So

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<v Speaker 2>but all worked out well, and got up in the

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<v Speaker 2>morning and Chuck and I went in Saint Louis. We

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<v Speaker 2>get to studio. His studio was a fur warehouse and

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<v Speaker 2>he sectioned I built a room in there control room studio,

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<v Speaker 2>and it looked like was built in fifty five. It

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<v Speaker 2>was so old. It was like a three track console,

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<v Speaker 2>but you can get into there were patches to get

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<v Speaker 2>into sixteen tracks. It was a sixteen track tape. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was all going to be fine. I found one

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<v Speaker 2>working fader and we did the overdubs. Everything was great,

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<v Speaker 2>didn't take much time. At about two o'clock in the afternoon,

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<v Speaker 2>the advertising agency gave me a check to give Chuck.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the back half of his payment and was

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<v Speaker 2>five grand. So I handed him in the check and

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<v Speaker 2>he looked at it. Can I curse on there? Bob? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So he looks at and he says, what the fuck

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<v Speaker 2>is this? And I said, I'm pretty sure it's a

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<v Speaker 2>remainder of the money they owed you. And he said,

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<v Speaker 2>this ain't money, and he rips it up. He says,

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<v Speaker 2>I want money now. You ain't leaving until I get cash.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I didn't they You know, I was young.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't think that anything weird could happen to me.

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<v Speaker 2>So I called the agency and I spoke to the

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<v Speaker 2>producer and he said, I said, look, Chuck doesn't like

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<v Speaker 2>to check. So he wants cash. Now, well, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how we can do that, but maybe I can

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<v Speaker 2>get it tomorrow. I said, no, he's stopped letting me

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<v Speaker 2>leave here until he gets money. And he said, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let me get to Western Union. We'll figure out how

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<v Speaker 2>to get the money to them. And he called me

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<v Speaker 2>back in a bit and he said, okay, it's coming

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<v Speaker 2>down Western Union. It should be there by three this afternoon. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So I tell Chuck this. He's fine, everything seems fine.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking talking about politics, and it was the end

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<v Speaker 2>of Nixon administration and it finally gets close to three. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>this was their warehouse. There was a very large safe

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<v Speaker 2>in the room, and it looked like a big bank

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<v Speaker 2>safe with that kind of door. And he puts his

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<v Speaker 2>arm around my shoulder and he walks me over there

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<v Speaker 2>and he said, look, while I'm gone, I want you

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<v Speaker 2>to stay here. I said, in the safe and he said, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I didn't know what. I said, okay, And

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<v Speaker 2>I got in the safe. I didn't expect him to

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<v Speaker 2>close the door, but he did, and no lights. And

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting in there thinking maybe i'd rush to a

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<v Speaker 2>little too soon to think I wouldn't get hurt here.

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<v Speaker 2>And I sat in the safe for maybe about twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five minutes, thinking, oh my god, you know I could

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<v Speaker 2>be dead. How much your is in here. He finally

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<v Speaker 2>shows up, and he's a happy guy. He got his money.

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<v Speaker 2>He lets me out, Hey, I want to take you

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<v Speaker 2>to dinner before you leave. I said, okay, So we

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<v Speaker 2>go to a soul food place in East Saint Louis

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<v Speaker 2>and we have a dinner. I said, Chuck, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's none of my business, but what was that all about?

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, Look, you know, in the fifties, I

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<v Speaker 2>would do a gig in Texas and they would write

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<v Speaker 2>me a check and then that night I would leave

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<v Speaker 2>for Arkansas, and by the time I got there the

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<v Speaker 2>next day, the check was still good. So at some

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<v Speaker 2>point I stopped taking checks. And you know, once he

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<v Speaker 2>said that, I totally understood. I thought it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>times of change, and these were the seventies, the fifties,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know that's why people get paid. But it

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<v Speaker 2>all worked out. Okay. Took me to the airport and

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<v Speaker 2>we were good after that and never saw him again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna tell you one thing I don't like talking

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<v Speaker 2>about this it's not a good thing. About a month later,

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<v Speaker 2>Chuck was arrested in Missouri. They had a statue called

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<v Speaker 2>white slavery, and he was blamed that these two girls

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<v Speaker 2>were white slaves. I'm pretty sure he got out of

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<v Speaker 2>it and everything was cool, but that that was the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing they would do down there, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's like so evil, but it was weird.

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<v Speaker 1>Ask you this, this is a sleazy business. What problems

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<v Speaker 1>have you had getting paid? And how much money all

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.160
<v Speaker 1>these years later are you owed?

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.720
<v Speaker 2>You know. There was only one gig that I didn't

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 2>get paid for and I was asked to engineer something.

0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:25.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to mention the name, and I I

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 2>was doing a Manhattan transfer rick in LA and this

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:35.679
<v Speaker 2>gig was in New York and they were okay about

0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.120
<v Speaker 2>me leaving. I got to New York and I get

0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 2>a call from the producer. He said, we're going to

0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 2>have to delay a few days. Not quite ready, okay.

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.280
<v Speaker 2>All my equipment was shipped back to New York. And

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:57.640
<v Speaker 2>then night before we're going to start, I get another call,

0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:02.359
<v Speaker 2>We're not going to be ready till next week. And

0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm thinking, why did I come back for this?

0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.399
<v Speaker 2>I could have been finishing off the transfer and then

0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>he calls me next week. You know. It was a

0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>woman and she fell in love with an engineer that

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 2>she had worked with and he was not doing the gig.

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 2>And all I said was, okay, I want you to

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:33.800
<v Speaker 2>pay for the shipment of my gear here and going back,

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:40.880
<v Speaker 2>and he said, no problem. I never got paid. It

0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 2>was maybe a couple of grand But in ninety and

0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.560
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five I got a call from the

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:56.960
<v Speaker 2>same person saying, will you mix a cut for a

0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:03.199
<v Speaker 2>movie for me? I said sure, and she said how

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.240
<v Speaker 2>much she get? Knowing this was a couple of grand

0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 2>I said, I get something to five hundred to mix

0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 2>and no problem. So I got her back. But that

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 2>was the only money that was ever owed to me.

0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Well did you ever have trouble getting paid? Were you

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>ultimately got the buddy?

0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:29.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You know, record companies were being incredibly slow to pay,

0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:37.120
<v Speaker 2>and from the time I started to the early two thousands,

0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 2>it was still being paid by record companies, you know,

0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.840
<v Speaker 2>except like when I worked with the Eagles, they were

0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:48.960
<v Speaker 2>their own record company. They paid you and you always

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.760
<v Speaker 2>got paid on time. But while record companies were paying

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 2>you never knew when you were going to get paid,

0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and you never knew if you gain any royalties.

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you still own your royalties or did you sell them?

0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:13.959
<v Speaker 2>No?

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 1>I am and to what degree do you think you're

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:19.560
<v Speaker 1>being paid fairly?

0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm being paid fairly for streaming. I'm amazed at how

0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:31.400
<v Speaker 2>much money there is in streaming.

0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Are there any records that you worked on that were

0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.200
<v Speaker 1>not you know, in the old days, a physical store

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.239
<v Speaker 1>had to stop the physical album in order of you

0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:46.520
<v Speaker 1>to buy it. We're essentially everything is available on streaming.

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Are there any royalty streams that were very low because

0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the records weren't available whatever. But now, because of the Internet,

0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.239
<v Speaker 1>you're getting paid on these records in sums that you

0:21:58.240 --> 0:21:59.439
<v Speaker 1>didn't get previously.

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.240
<v Speaker 2>That's true. And I have to say a lot of

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 2>the record labels they would figure out when the album

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.439
<v Speaker 2>would be coop, you know, and right as it's a

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 2>battery coop, they'd stopped production, so you wouldn't make anything,

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, unless it was a huge band, you know,

0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.080
<v Speaker 2>they would have to do it. But for spoiler acts

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.720
<v Speaker 2>they'd usually stop it. You wouldn't get anything, but now

0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:33.160
<v Speaker 2>you do.

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let me ask a different question. Whenever you're in

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the studio, assuming there is a separate engineer and the producer.

0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:50.600
<v Speaker 1>I have never heard the engineer say anything negative, even

0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:53.080
<v Speaker 1>if they want to say something I'm not talking about.

0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 1>If you're asked, you know, should we do it this

0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:59.880
<v Speaker 1>way or that way? But the engineer is not rendering

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:04.440
<v Speaker 1>an opinion. He is number one. Other than working the board,

0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.000
<v Speaker 1>the number one thing seems to be to get along

0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and stay calm. Hey, what's your experience and how did

0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:13.920
<v Speaker 1>you learn to behave behind the board.

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, my teacher was film own, so he always told me,

0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:27.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, you have to be friends with the producer

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:34.040
<v Speaker 2>and the band or the artist, and you never want

0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.840
<v Speaker 2>them as your enemies. Always keep them on your side.

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:45.200
<v Speaker 2>And one of the earlier albums I did was a Peter,

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Paul and Mary thing. I sat in Fulfill one day

0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 2>and I knew how they would set up and how

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:58.280
<v Speaker 2>they would sing all three at once on three different mics,

0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:03.160
<v Speaker 2>and produce came in. You know, I always question whether

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.840
<v Speaker 2>he was really a producer. You know, he would sit

0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:14.359
<v Speaker 2>there reading the times, and I don't think he ever

0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:18.960
<v Speaker 2>really paid attention to what they were doing unless they

0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:23.120
<v Speaker 2>thought they thought it was good. And there was one

0:24:23.200 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 2>take on one song where they said they asked him,

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:32.320
<v Speaker 2>how did you like that? And he had the paper

0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 2>down load and he sort of turned towards me and said,

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 2>how was that? So, yeah, you had to learn that.

0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:49.520
<v Speaker 2>That's how it worked in the seventies. And at some

0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:56.040
<v Speaker 2>point they were realizing both the artists and the labels,

0:24:56.119 --> 0:25:00.479
<v Speaker 2>because the labels were paying these guys aren't on a

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 2>weekly basis whether they worked or not. And they thought,

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:09.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's time we started to change things. And

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 2>they decided that they would try to make the engineers

0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 2>producers and you know, with the artist's approval, and that

0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:23.960
<v Speaker 2>seemed to be the way it turned. And it was

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:27.639
<v Speaker 2>a good thing. I mean, we didn't make much more.

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.879
<v Speaker 2>They didn't really pay us. They said, well, you have

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.640
<v Speaker 2>the credit, you get a production credit, and you can

0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 2>go on from there. Like first thing I co produced

0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:46.040
<v Speaker 2>was Van Marson Moondance, and having your name on that

0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 2>was like, that was a good thing.

0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:56.399
<v Speaker 1>Okay. There are some producers who are big characters, Richard

0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Perry no longer with us, who would come in there

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>divas unto themselves, and they have a vision recording and

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:09.160
<v Speaker 1>producing are slightly different, you know, they merge at some point.

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:13.719
<v Speaker 1>But to what degree if you're hired as a producer,

0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:17.880
<v Speaker 1>will you say, well, you know, this song needs a

0:26:17.920 --> 0:26:20.720
<v Speaker 1>bridge or we need to change it. To what degree

0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:22.840
<v Speaker 1>will you dig down on a vision.

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Level if I'm a producer, yes, oh, right from the beginning.

0:26:30.760 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's I won't go into a study of

0:26:34.320 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 2>somebody until I heard the songs. You know, It's always

0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:42.560
<v Speaker 2>been my policy. I want to hit the songs first,

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.880
<v Speaker 2>so I get involved right there. But interesting you talk

0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>about Richard Perry. He was a good guy from the

0:26:53.520 --> 0:26:59.439
<v Speaker 2>old school in the fifties. And I got called to

0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:08.960
<v Speaker 2>do Today with Art Garfroncle and Richard was producer. And

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the first day we go in there, Richard hadn't flown

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:19.800
<v Speaker 2>in yet from La So I'm doing vocals with Art,

0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and finally Richard walks in and he's sort of not

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 2>happy with this. I said, well, Art won this thing,

0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:36.480
<v Speaker 2>so I couldn't say no. He said, okay, Well, Art

0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:36.959
<v Speaker 2>says hi.

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:38.040
<v Speaker 1>He comes in.

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Art's very angry, you know, he didn't like Richard being

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:50.480
<v Speaker 2>so late. And Art comes in skintrow room and he

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>said something, you know, you're late. Why are you late?

0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.919
<v Speaker 2>You know? And they argued for bid, well, let me

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:01.200
<v Speaker 2>hear what you've done on this. He said, how many

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:04.760
<v Speaker 2>tracks do you have? We have like eight or nine tracks,

0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, and he said where are they? And I

0:28:08.320 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 2>gave them the faders. He looked at the faders. I

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:15.080
<v Speaker 2>don't even know if he knew the song, but he

0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:19.760
<v Speaker 2>was like he'd get the first two syllables from one take,

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 2>go to another take, not having heard any of these

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 2>vocals once in another take, and then it just kept

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:32.439
<v Speaker 2>going around from tack to take, and all of a sudden,

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Art said I'm getting out of here and he left,

0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and Richard was hired, and he eventually left too. The

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 2>next morning, I get a call from Arts manager and

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:58.920
<v Speaker 2>he says, look, it's not working out between Richard and Art.

0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Could you do me a big favor? I said, sure,

0:29:01.880 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>what's that? Could you fire Richard? Oh? Boy, fire Richard.

0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't do that kind of stuff. You don't want

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 2>to fire him, You fire him, you know. So he

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.640
<v Speaker 2>never got in. I just left. There was nothing to do,

0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:26.360
<v Speaker 2>and that was that. I finished the record with Art.

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, he was the producer.

0:29:30.200 --> 0:29:34.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to jump for a second. A few years back,

0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:37.760
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of publicity about you getting into

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:43.080
<v Speaker 1>car audio with accurate Hey, how did that come to be?

0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:50.240
<v Speaker 1>And B tell us about the process. Well, it was right.

0:29:51.960 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>About five years after five point one started to come

0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:01.280
<v Speaker 2>to light, and at some point it was right after

0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and one, after nine to eleven. I said,

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 2>how are people going to hear this? I don't know

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>of anybody who's going to buy four more speakers and

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:17.880
<v Speaker 2>seed you up in the middle of their living room

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:23.440
<v Speaker 2>with cables going all over the place. And so I

0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 2>thought back to every format, and every format always happened

0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:39.360
<v Speaker 2>in the car. When we went to from tape to

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>a cassette and E track cassette, it was only in

0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:48.719
<v Speaker 2>the car. Nobody bought those things and it happened for

0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:54.280
<v Speaker 2>a while, and then after that it went to CD

0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and it didn't happen until it was in the car.

0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I thought, well, there should be no difference. Why don't

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:09.600
<v Speaker 2>we put in a car. And there was a DVD

0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>entertainment group in New York and they were having all

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 2>these manufacturers come and talk about what they're doing with

0:31:19.600 --> 0:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>five point one, but nobody had put it in a car.

0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Nobody had plans to put it in the car. So

0:31:31.240 --> 0:31:34.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know who I was speaking to, but

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.880
<v Speaker 2>they had been to come and talk about five one,

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 2>and I got in my head that I'm going to

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:46.000
<v Speaker 2>go to every manufacturer and say, hey, it's never been done,

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.360
<v Speaker 2>why don't we put it in one of your cars.

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:53.400
<v Speaker 2>Why don't you try and sell this to a manufacturer?

0:31:54.400 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>And every single person from every company said nah, but

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, we think it's going to be too difficult

0:32:04.840 --> 0:32:10.479
<v Speaker 2>to add all that information into a car, and they

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:17.479
<v Speaker 2>all said no. I got a call about six months

0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 2>later from Panasonic. They said, we like your idea. We

0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:28.400
<v Speaker 2>did a mock up system. Would you come out and

0:32:28.600 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>see if it's what you would like? And we have

0:32:32.640 --> 0:32:38.080
<v Speaker 2>a company that's interested. And I got out there. I

0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.800
<v Speaker 2>helped tune system got it to a point where I

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:46.080
<v Speaker 2>got my stuff sounded good, and we played it for

0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Accura and they were totally blown away by it, and

0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:55.160
<v Speaker 2>they asked us to they want to do this in

0:32:55.720 --> 0:33:00.920
<v Speaker 2>the two thousand and four Accurate TL and we did it.

0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>They it was standard gear. You didn't pay extra for this,

0:33:06.640 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 2>and we actually made up a demo disc of all

0:33:09.720 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 2>the five wins that people had done at that point,

0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.560
<v Speaker 2>and they gave it away if you bought the car,

0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:21.480
<v Speaker 2>and it was a then deal after that. I mean

0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:26.760
<v Speaker 2>I eventually was in every accurate model, and it was

0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:32.480
<v Speaker 2>only till about two years ago. They wanted the system

0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 2>was named after me, and they wanted to have a

0:33:36.760 --> 0:33:41.760
<v Speaker 2>bigger name, so they decided to go to Harmon Harmon

0:33:41.840 --> 0:33:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Cardon and they did that. But I'm still in two

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 2>of the cars because I don't know whether they couldn't

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.480
<v Speaker 2>get one that was fitting. And in the Rocker report

0:33:55.880 --> 0:34:06.240
<v Speaker 2>that came out last Friday, they had ten SUVs and

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:10.880
<v Speaker 2>they called them best the shirt and class and you

0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:16.719
<v Speaker 2>know BMW for a power and a Cadillac for comfort,

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:22.359
<v Speaker 2>all these things, and finally came down to audio. The

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.719
<v Speaker 2>best audio you'll ever hear in a car is the

0:34:26.880 --> 0:34:33.080
<v Speaker 2>ELS system in the RDX Accura. And I'm thinking I

0:34:33.080 --> 0:34:37.240
<v Speaker 2>haven't worked on it, and that car is still using

0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:41.560
<v Speaker 2>the same program I used six years ago.

0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when Panasonic called you in it and you subsequently

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:51.640
<v Speaker 1>worked with Accura, did they say this is the equipment's

0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:55.280
<v Speaker 1>in there you tune in or did you have input

0:34:55.280 --> 0:34:58.919
<v Speaker 1>as to what speakers and amplifiers they put in the cars?

0:35:00.200 --> 0:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Sign I would have to go by what the car

0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 2>company wanted. They had specific standards. You couldn't put a

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:13.840
<v Speaker 2>speaker head. You couldn't put a speaker there. The amp's

0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:18.520
<v Speaker 2>too big. You know, there's a whole lot of I

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.440
<v Speaker 2>get to approve it though. You know. In their first

0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:25.720
<v Speaker 2>car they put in the tweeter and it was really

0:35:25.760 --> 0:35:31.040
<v Speaker 2>a good place on the top of the dash, and

0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:37.359
<v Speaker 2>they actually put in insulated, an insulated front windshield so

0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:41.440
<v Speaker 2>nothing would bounce off it. And you know, they really

0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 2>took consideration that they wanted to have a great system.

0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:51.400
<v Speaker 2>The year before I came in, they had another company

0:35:51.440 --> 0:35:56.840
<v Speaker 2>in there and it was raided by Car Current Track

0:35:56.960 --> 0:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>or one of those magazines as the worst Ordeo system

0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:04.399
<v Speaker 2>you can ever have. So they were looking to make

0:36:04.480 --> 0:36:08.920
<v Speaker 2>this the best started system and it was. It was.

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>It was rated the number one system in all of

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 2>car audio.

0:36:16.520 --> 0:36:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, in my car, I have an aftermarket system. I

0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 1>have top of the line FO call speakers. I have

0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:28.040
<v Speaker 1>a sub warfare from AVII, which I don't think is

0:36:28.040 --> 0:36:31.759
<v Speaker 1>in the business anymore. I have a JLA amplifier at

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 1>the top of the line Alpine head unit forgetting tuning,

0:36:37.600 --> 0:36:39.719
<v Speaker 1>which I'm gonna get to in a minute. Is there

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:47.719
<v Speaker 1>any manufacturer who is selling sound of that quality, not

0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 1>that enough. No, so let's just assume I drove my

0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:56.560
<v Speaker 1>car over you. That's what I got, And I said, Elliott,

0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:59.399
<v Speaker 1>tune in. How would you do it?

0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:05.319
<v Speaker 2>I'd have to know the program that they use to

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:12.120
<v Speaker 2>install it. There's there's usually a ton of VQ available

0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:17.759
<v Speaker 2>for every channel. So for every speaker, is is there

0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a two channel system?

0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so but you have multiple speakers.

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I have a uh two in the

0:37:29.680 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 1>front doors, one in the rear door, and then the

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:33.720
<v Speaker 1>sub warfare in the back.

0:37:34.280 --> 0:37:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, all those speakers have a ton of VQ probably,

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:44.040
<v Speaker 2>so I need access to that system and I could

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:45.000
<v Speaker 2>tune it from there.

0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's jump back. How did you decide to get

0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:58.800
<v Speaker 1>into this business?

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was right after nine to eleven.

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, not the car business. I decided to

0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:10.000
<v Speaker 1>get into the music business. To begin with.

0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:14.200
<v Speaker 2>I was a player and I knew that I wasn't

0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:17.400
<v Speaker 2>going to go anywhere, you know. I had a record

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:22.000
<v Speaker 2>deal on London Records with the band that we were. Okay,

0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:27.040
<v Speaker 2>we didn't write the song. They want to release a

0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 2>single on us, and we didn't write it. We didn't

0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 2>do anything. They hired a bunch of great New York

0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:39.880
<v Speaker 2>studio guys to record the track. We could be there,

0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:43.640
<v Speaker 2>but I knew it wasn't going to happen. But being

0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:47.680
<v Speaker 2>in the studio. The engineer was an old timer named

0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Bob Lifton. He was a really good guy, had a

0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:58.680
<v Speaker 2>great recording studio, and I thought, Wow, this would really

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:03.919
<v Speaker 2>be something to maybe go in this fashion. The other

0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>thing is when I heard Sergeant Pepper for the first time,

0:39:08.280 --> 0:39:12.279
<v Speaker 2>I listened. My uncle had a pair of Costs headphones

0:39:13.480 --> 0:39:16.800
<v Speaker 2>and I listened to it and read the album jacket

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:21.879
<v Speaker 2>and I looked at Jeff Emeric I said, I want

0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:27.120
<v Speaker 2>to be this guy, and you know I eventually. My

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:33.320
<v Speaker 2>uncle was a New York studio musician, a trombone player,

0:39:34.480 --> 0:39:39.839
<v Speaker 2>and he was great friends with Phil, and I told

0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:43.359
<v Speaker 2>him what I want to do, and he said, meet

0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.480
<v Speaker 2>me tomorrow morning at an R and gave me the address.

0:39:47.239 --> 0:39:51.480
<v Speaker 2>And I walked in there and Phil was doing the

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:58.160
<v Speaker 2>date and they had just finished, and my uncle told

0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:03.960
<v Speaker 2>him about me, and he said, let's talk and went

0:40:04.080 --> 0:40:08.440
<v Speaker 2>to his office. We talked. It was a ten minute interview.

0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:14.919
<v Speaker 2>I was totally different than what the engineers and seconds

0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:18.840
<v Speaker 2>were like back then. I came in in hippie clothes

0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:23.280
<v Speaker 2>and most of the guys who were in jackets, ties,

0:40:23.400 --> 0:40:29.480
<v Speaker 2>white shirts, they were business guys. And Phil was staring

0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:33.640
<v Speaker 2>at me. I had an appleseed necklace around my neck

0:40:34.719 --> 0:40:39.600
<v Speaker 2>and he said, what's that you're wearing. I said, it's

0:40:39.640 --> 0:40:44.839
<v Speaker 2>an apple seed necklace. He says, where do you get that? Oh,

0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:47.799
<v Speaker 2>there's a place down in a village. Hey, can you

0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 2>get me one? So I started that way. You know,

0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I had to get a sports jacket and ties and shirts.

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 2>And as a second, you were in the hole. You

0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 2>were doing stuff you never thought you do. And I

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:12.839
<v Speaker 2>ripped my jacket on the second day and I said, Phil,

0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:18.040
<v Speaker 2>you know I don't have enough money to do this,

0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:25.440
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, can you be more pleasant than

0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:29.399
<v Speaker 2>what you wore to meet me? And I said, yeah,

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:32.440
<v Speaker 2>I could do that. I don't have to be a hippie,

0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:32.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, but.

0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, yeah I could.

0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:38.919
<v Speaker 2>I could dress differently if I don't have to wear

0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:43.439
<v Speaker 2>a jacket. He said, okay, I'll make that a room. Now,

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 2>nobody none of the seconds have to wear jackets. And

0:41:47.840 --> 0:41:50.200
<v Speaker 2>that's the way it was. But if for about a

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:54.239
<v Speaker 2>year everybody was a hippie, they were all the engineers

0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:59.000
<v Speaker 2>were wearing different clothes, so it was it was great.

0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:03.680
<v Speaker 1>And let's go back before this. Where do you grow up, Brooklyn?

0:42:04.880 --> 0:42:06.720
<v Speaker 1>And what do your parents do for a living?

0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:13.759
<v Speaker 2>My father was a mechanical engineer and a World War

0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Two hero, and my mother was a nurse.

0:42:19.120 --> 0:42:23.279
<v Speaker 1>And how many kids in the family? Two are you

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the older the younger?

0:42:24.920 --> 0:42:29.799
<v Speaker 2>I'm the oldest. And they got divorced at some point

0:42:30.080 --> 0:42:33.960
<v Speaker 2>and my father had two more kids. My mother had

0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:37.920
<v Speaker 2>another kid, so I have a few step brothers.

0:42:38.560 --> 0:42:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, your band, What did you do in the band?

0:42:41.680 --> 0:42:42.520
<v Speaker 1>What did you play?

0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 2>How's your drummer?

0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:49.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, drummer's always a business guy. What inspired you to

0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 1>pick up the drums?

0:42:51.640 --> 0:43:00.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't, honestly can't remember, but seeing Jeane Kruper and

0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Buddy Rich playing a man's and what they would do,

0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:09.359
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I would love to do that. So

0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I talked to my uncle and he said, well, I

0:43:14.200 --> 0:43:19.560
<v Speaker 2>have a teacher for you in down in Manhattan Beach,

0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:23.520
<v Speaker 2>and you know he's a great guy. You love the guy.

0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:27.719
<v Speaker 2>So I started taking lessons and I was playing on

0:43:27.800 --> 0:43:32.680
<v Speaker 2>a pad for it seemed like a year, and I said,

0:43:32.880 --> 0:43:37.000
<v Speaker 2>when can I actually play in drums? He said, you

0:43:37.000 --> 0:43:41.160
<v Speaker 2>could play in drums anytime. And so I told to

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:44.160
<v Speaker 2>my uncle, I said, you know, I don't. I wouldn't

0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:48.960
<v Speaker 2>know what to do, and I don't even know if

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 2>I have the money to buy them. And he said,

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:57.560
<v Speaker 2>I'll pick it out for you. I'll take care of everything.

0:43:59.320 --> 0:44:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Buddy Rich which was his best friend, and he and

0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>Buddy went to Manny's on forty eighth, of course, and

0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:12.800
<v Speaker 2>picked out a drum set for me, a Slingerland drum set,

0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:18.120
<v Speaker 2>and that was it. You know. I brought him to

0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:22.759
<v Speaker 2>my house and I played drum set constantly, annoying everybody.

0:44:23.800 --> 0:44:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's gonna be my next question. Okay, did you

0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:30.480
<v Speaker 1>play in bands before the Beatles?

0:44:30.920 --> 0:44:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I did, but they they were bands, Like one summer

0:44:39.520 --> 0:44:42.719
<v Speaker 2>I worked in the Catskills and I was in a

0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:47.359
<v Speaker 2>band there. But what you played was fakebook stuff, you know,

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:51.920
<v Speaker 2>old songs, and they were dance and that's what it was.

0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:59.040
<v Speaker 2>At some point I got into a surf band from

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:03.279
<v Speaker 2>a surf been from Long Island. Played that for a

0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:11.640
<v Speaker 2>while and then when I right after high school, I

0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:15.799
<v Speaker 2>actually got a call to play in a band that

0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:21.400
<v Speaker 2>was going on the road with Little Anthony and the Imperials,

0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:25.799
<v Speaker 2>the ron Ats, Ruby and the Romantics. So it was

0:45:25.840 --> 0:45:28.480
<v Speaker 2>all three of them playing home. You know, they would

0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:34.200
<v Speaker 2>do plan the same night, and I did that and

0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I was the only white guy in the band, and

0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:43.040
<v Speaker 2>it was sort of a fun gig for me. Okay,

0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:47.240
<v Speaker 2>was college ever in the picture. I went to Brooklyn

0:45:47.400 --> 0:45:52.480
<v Speaker 2>College for about six months where each class was like

0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:57.920
<v Speaker 2>five hundred people, and I said, no, this is not

0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:01.960
<v Speaker 2>working and I took off to play in a band.

0:46:03.000 --> 0:46:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're on the road. You're the only white guy

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.239
<v Speaker 1>there was, you know, the Civil Rights Act whatever, but

0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 1>that didn't really come until Johnson. What was it like

0:46:13.880 --> 0:46:18.719
<v Speaker 1>being on the road. What insights did you gain it

0:46:18.840 --> 0:46:20.560
<v Speaker 1>being a black person on the road.

0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:31.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, the last the next last gig was in Miami

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:36.120
<v Speaker 2>and we were in We were driving everywhere they would

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:39.960
<v Speaker 2>They were on a bus, we were driving and we

0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:44.799
<v Speaker 2>got in the car and that night from Miami, I

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:51.399
<v Speaker 2>was driving and we asked what was the safest way

0:46:51.440 --> 0:46:57.000
<v Speaker 2>we were leaving at night to get through Georgia, and

0:46:57.040 --> 0:47:03.960
<v Speaker 2>they told us how to go and we didn't know

0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:08.800
<v Speaker 2>what we were driving into. And there was four black

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:15.080
<v Speaker 2>eyes and me and we go through this one town

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:19.359
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden, there's a red light flashing

0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:24.880
<v Speaker 2>behind us, and that there were no blue lights for cops.

0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:26.640
<v Speaker 2>It was all red lights.

0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>And it was a.

0:47:27.640 --> 0:47:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Pickup truck with a gun mount behind driver. And he

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:36.239
<v Speaker 2>came out and I was driving. He said to me,

0:47:37.480 --> 0:47:41.920
<v Speaker 2>going mighty fast, boy, And then he looked in the

0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:45.280
<v Speaker 2>car and saw the rest of the guys were black,

0:47:46.560 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 2>and he said, you know what, I'm gonna turn around.

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:53.719
<v Speaker 2>You follow me. I didn't even see it down and

0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:56.759
<v Speaker 2>we go back to what this town was. It was

0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:02.680
<v Speaker 2>two stores, both uninhabited, but the judge lives above one

0:48:02.760 --> 0:48:06.400
<v Speaker 2>of them, and he woke him up, called him down,

0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:13.200
<v Speaker 2>and they sentenced us to five days in jail, and

0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:17.040
<v Speaker 2>should have been because what it was we were doing

0:48:17.160 --> 0:48:21.799
<v Speaker 2>thirty five. That was the last sign we saw. And

0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:26.560
<v Speaker 2>he said, no, it's thirty here, and the judge said

0:48:27.000 --> 0:48:30.319
<v Speaker 2>it's seventy five dollars a point, so you need three

0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:33.760
<v Speaker 2>seventy five if you're going to stay out of jail.

0:48:34.360 --> 0:48:39.919
<v Speaker 2>Three seventy five. We didn't all make that, you know, so,

0:48:40.360 --> 0:48:45.640
<v Speaker 2>but they sentenced us to five days in jail. And

0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.799
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't thinking about much of anything, but they had

0:48:48.880 --> 0:48:53.200
<v Speaker 2>to come too. They were locked up. There were two

0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:58.000
<v Speaker 2>cells in the basement. One was for me. The other

0:48:58.040 --> 0:49:03.200
<v Speaker 2>guys stayed in another cell. And you know, I didn't

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:07.000
<v Speaker 2>think about it. I felt like we were, Okay, we're

0:49:07.040 --> 0:49:10.640
<v Speaker 2>gonna have to pay time, but it's what it was.

0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:15.080
<v Speaker 2>The good thing is that Jerdge's wife was a cook

0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:20.600
<v Speaker 2>and she burnt uspiels that were incredible. So we got along,

0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:24.600
<v Speaker 2>we talked, we had fun. It wasn't until I saw

0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:29.279
<v Speaker 2>an easy Rider and I said, oh my god, man,

0:49:29.360 --> 0:49:33.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, we could have died in that place and

0:49:33.560 --> 0:49:37.600
<v Speaker 2>nobody would have ever known. But we got to have

0:49:39.160 --> 0:49:40.360
<v Speaker 2>got back up north.

0:49:41.480 --> 0:49:43.000
<v Speaker 1>How long were we actually in jail?

0:49:43.640 --> 0:49:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Five days?

0:49:44.880 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Wow? There wasn't a gig that you were supposed to

0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:48.120
<v Speaker 1>be at.

0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we missed it. Nobody asked about us either.

0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so what happens when you hear the Beatles?

0:50:00.840 --> 0:50:06.200
<v Speaker 2>My life changed? I mean it. I couldn't listen to

0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:11.560
<v Speaker 2>anything else but the Beatles, you know, every moment of

0:50:11.680 --> 0:50:16.080
<v Speaker 2>time and listening it was all Beatles and listening and

0:50:16.280 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 2>headsets through those times. Was remarkable. Hearing how these guys

0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:27.600
<v Speaker 2>engineered and what they did. When by the time I

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:33.840
<v Speaker 2>heard Sogan Pepper, it was like amazing. How did he

0:50:34.040 --> 0:50:39.480
<v Speaker 2>do this? You know? I just there was no other way.

0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:42.160
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be a beatle. I want to work

0:50:42.200 --> 0:50:42.680
<v Speaker 2>with them.

0:50:43.600 --> 0:50:46.520
<v Speaker 1>So how did you get in this band that signed

0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:48.240
<v Speaker 1>to London Records?

0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:53.520
<v Speaker 2>I got a call. I knew the bass player and

0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.400
<v Speaker 2>he told me about what was going on. We started

0:50:56.400 --> 0:51:00.759
<v Speaker 2>playing gigs in the Bronx at this one club that

0:51:00.920 --> 0:51:06.719
<v Speaker 2>loved us, and we were there like every Thursday and Friday, Saturday,

0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:13.360
<v Speaker 2>Sunday for months a time, and we got pretty good.

0:51:13.920 --> 0:51:16.880
<v Speaker 2>We didn't look like a band, but we got good

0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:19.399
<v Speaker 2>and they signed us.

0:51:20.360 --> 0:51:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, going back to Phil, I knew Phil, but I

0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:28.040
<v Speaker 1>knew him outside the studio. In the studio, what was

0:51:28.080 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Phil's magic? What did he bring.

0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Well? Like when he said to me about an artist

0:51:36.400 --> 0:51:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and a producer, he bront that kind of magic. How

0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:47.120
<v Speaker 2>to treat people? Don't ever don't ever condemn if you're

0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:52.879
<v Speaker 2>an engineer, don't ever argue with her. Second, don't put

0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:57.799
<v Speaker 2>him in place where he's going to be embarrassed. And

0:51:59.160 --> 0:52:03.760
<v Speaker 2>so I think I did it once in my whole life,

0:52:03.800 --> 0:52:08.080
<v Speaker 2>where the second did something. I said, what are you doing?

0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:12.040
<v Speaker 2>What are you adope? You know? And I never ever

0:52:12.480 --> 0:52:19.720
<v Speaker 2>did it again because for Phil tell me and later

0:52:19.840 --> 0:52:24.560
<v Speaker 2>on I only knew him as an engineer. I spent

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:29.640
<v Speaker 2>my second career just working for Phil, and when he

0:52:29.800 --> 0:52:35.160
<v Speaker 2>started to produce, I wasn't there. I think he called

0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:38.960
<v Speaker 2>me twice when he said, we engineer for me on

0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:43.440
<v Speaker 2>these two projects. And you know, it wasn't enough to

0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:47.520
<v Speaker 2>really get a feeling for what he was doing. But

0:52:48.080 --> 0:52:52.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, have you seen that Billy Joel h Doc

0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:56.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, seeing what he was doing. I missed all that,

0:52:57.200 --> 0:53:00.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, I didn't see all that from Phil. You know,

0:53:01.920 --> 0:53:05.000
<v Speaker 2>he was an engineer, a great engineer.

0:53:05.600 --> 0:53:09.120
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to when you're a second. If you're

0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:12.320
<v Speaker 1>in a busy studio a second, you could be working

0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:16.919
<v Speaker 1>almost around the clock, getting no sleep. What was your experience.

0:53:17.360 --> 0:53:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, in my first year, Phil was doing a

0:53:22.320 --> 0:53:27.239
<v Speaker 2>movie with Peter Yarrow and it was a movie about woodstock.

0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:35.200
<v Speaker 2>It was before a woodstock and it was just the

0:53:35.280 --> 0:53:38.480
<v Speaker 2>town was like the people who lived there and it

0:53:38.600 --> 0:53:45.960
<v Speaker 2>was very sany you know, it was mind bucklering. But

0:53:46.160 --> 0:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>we worked on the end of the movie. We were

0:53:50.520 --> 0:53:56.560
<v Speaker 2>close to the deadline and we spent I think almost

0:53:56.640 --> 0:54:02.719
<v Speaker 2>seventy hours in the studio just working. I don't know how.

0:54:02.760 --> 0:54:07.759
<v Speaker 2>I know how I did it, but you know it

0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:08.360
<v Speaker 2>wasn't great.

0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:15.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay. As a second, how did the clients treat you

0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:17.520
<v Speaker 1>on record dates?

0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Great? Really great? But you know within r you would

0:54:25.320 --> 0:54:28.080
<v Speaker 2>work from eight in the morning till five in the

0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:34.160
<v Speaker 2>evening on jingles, and those people treated you like shit.

0:54:35.560 --> 0:54:39.240
<v Speaker 2>They just didn't like you. They thought you were low,

0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:45.360
<v Speaker 2>you had you had no credibility in their eyes, or

0:54:46.719 --> 0:54:51.480
<v Speaker 2>like the arranger who was doing the music, they you

0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:55.719
<v Speaker 2>were just a boy died them. I actually did a

0:54:55.719 --> 0:55:01.280
<v Speaker 2>commercial with the arrangers said, hey boy, they didn't bother

0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:01.920
<v Speaker 2>to learn.

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Your name at that point. So how did you ultimately

0:55:05.320 --> 0:55:06.200
<v Speaker 1>get behind the board?

0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Phil was funny about that. He would pick us by

0:55:11.800 --> 0:55:15.719
<v Speaker 2>anything he ever did to make somebody an engineer. I

0:55:15.880 --> 0:55:20.240
<v Speaker 2>was doing a project with Phil. I was the second.

0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:24.720
<v Speaker 2>It was Jimmy Smith and I think there were five

0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:28.319
<v Speaker 2>guys in the bed at that point, and it was

0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:32.880
<v Speaker 2>book Monday through Friday, and we started seven in the

0:55:32.960 --> 0:55:36.640
<v Speaker 2>evening after the jingles had to be set up, and

0:55:36.760 --> 0:55:44.399
<v Speaker 2>we worked till about midnight. On the third day, I'm

0:55:44.480 --> 0:55:47.879
<v Speaker 2>set up. I set the whole day to Phil and

0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:53.359
<v Speaker 2>he says, or rather, it's about ten minutes before, and

0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:56.960
<v Speaker 2>no Phil. Phil always shut up a half an hour before.

0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:02.280
<v Speaker 2>And I started looking for Phil and can't find him,

0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:06.920
<v Speaker 2>not in his office, nobody. He finally calls with about

0:56:06.960 --> 0:56:11.160
<v Speaker 2>five minutes despair, and he says, look, I got some

0:56:11.320 --> 0:56:14.360
<v Speaker 2>problems I can't do to say, you're gonna have to

0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:19.560
<v Speaker 2>do it, and I'm on the phone. I said, I

0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:22.359
<v Speaker 2>can't do this. He said, yeah, you can do it.

0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:27.759
<v Speaker 2>I said I can't do this. I said, you can

0:56:27.800 --> 0:56:32.160
<v Speaker 2>do it. Just do it. You saw how it's been working,

0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Just do it. And I did it and it was good.

0:56:37.680 --> 0:56:40.200
<v Speaker 2>It was okay. He came back to the next side

0:56:40.239 --> 0:56:43.759
<v Speaker 2>to finish and it was all good. And that was

0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:45.880
<v Speaker 2>the first experience for me.

0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk about that experience. Were the MIC's already

0:56:50.000 --> 0:56:52.120
<v Speaker 1>set up or did you have to deal with Mike Blazman.

0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I did that because I was second, So I

0:56:55.840 --> 0:56:59.920
<v Speaker 2>set up on exactly what we did the previous tune now,

0:57:00.840 --> 0:57:05.319
<v Speaker 2>so Phil would just come in and get levels. In

0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:11.799
<v Speaker 2>those days, there was no EQ, no limiting. You had

0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:16.120
<v Speaker 2>to mic things, you had to place mikes. But you know,

0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:19.479
<v Speaker 2>Phil would say to me, you know the guitars, run,

0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:23.960
<v Speaker 2>go out and move the amp where's it now? And

0:57:24.000 --> 0:57:26.840
<v Speaker 2>he had a change the mic on the app. And

0:57:27.320 --> 0:57:29.480
<v Speaker 2>I saw all this and learned all this, so I

0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:32.760
<v Speaker 2>knew what was going to happen, what I needed to

0:57:32.760 --> 0:57:35.280
<v Speaker 2>do to get sound like Phil.

0:57:37.000 --> 0:57:40.320
<v Speaker 1>At the time. How sophisticated was the board.

0:57:41.560 --> 0:57:48.880
<v Speaker 2>It was a three track radio broadcast console and we

0:57:49.000 --> 0:57:51.760
<v Speaker 2>had I mean at the time there were four track

0:57:51.880 --> 0:58:01.720
<v Speaker 2>tape machines and Phil put in an Altech mixer, a

0:58:01.840 --> 0:58:06.200
<v Speaker 2>six channel mixer below the desk, so if you wanted

0:58:06.280 --> 0:58:11.040
<v Speaker 2>to use the fourth channel, you could use that. But generally,

0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:16.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, on a big date where there was strings, horns, vocals,

0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:21.200
<v Speaker 2>all the rhythm section, you had to listen it was combined.

0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Like Phil would put all rhythm, drums, bass, guitars, piano, anything, percussion,

0:58:29.560 --> 0:58:34.240
<v Speaker 2>anything on one track on track three, but he had

0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:38.240
<v Speaker 2>to blend it in. He hadn't decide right then and

0:58:38.320 --> 0:58:42.480
<v Speaker 2>there no going back. You could decided that the balance

0:58:42.600 --> 0:58:47.120
<v Speaker 2>is right. And he taught me how to listen for that.

0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, they're all these technological breakthroughs in the late sixties

0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:54.720
<v Speaker 1>early seventies in A and R. Did they buy that stuff?

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Were they early on that stuff or were they leap.

0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:02.720
<v Speaker 2>No, they were early, yeah, at forty eighth Street. It

0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:08.200
<v Speaker 2>was right next to Manny's and there was a bar

0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:13.640
<v Speaker 2>there called Jim and Andy's, and all the musicians would

0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:20.400
<v Speaker 2>go into the bar. And at some point we were

0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:24.200
<v Speaker 2>being kicked out of that studio because they're going to

0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:30.800
<v Speaker 2>build a big high rise. But Phil bought Columbia Studios,

0:59:31.360 --> 0:59:38.680
<v Speaker 2>the original studios on Seventh Avenue, and turned into I mean,

0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:43.080
<v Speaker 2>it was one of the greatest rooms ever. Frank did

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:49.360
<v Speaker 2>all his early recordings in that room, and he did

0:59:49.800 --> 0:59:54.600
<v Speaker 2>his very last recording in that room as well. And

0:59:57.360 --> 1:00:00.280
<v Speaker 2>so when he moved, when we moved off for the

1:00:00.320 --> 1:00:03.960
<v Speaker 2>seventh Avenue, all of a sudden a track was out.

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:09.160
<v Speaker 2>He bought an a track machine. He did one funny

1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:12.720
<v Speaker 2>thing when I came there with the mic selection was

1:00:12.920 --> 1:00:20.280
<v Speaker 2>pretty incredible. He had all great two mikes and real fancy.

1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:26.080
<v Speaker 2>At that point, Neuman came out with the U eighty seven,

1:00:26.960 --> 1:00:31.480
<v Speaker 2>which he felt that was the new standard. He sold

1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:37.880
<v Speaker 2>all these great mics and put in maybe fifty U

1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:42.520
<v Speaker 2>eighty seven's, you know, and we started using him. But

1:00:43.160 --> 1:00:48.880
<v Speaker 2>there was something it didn't have. It was clean, it

1:00:48.920 --> 1:00:52.919
<v Speaker 2>was a good microphone, but there was no character to it.

1:00:53.400 --> 1:00:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Which all the tuoe mics had and this didn't, but

1:00:59.120 --> 1:01:02.280
<v Speaker 2>he did. He so that that was a change that

1:01:02.480 --> 1:01:04.960
<v Speaker 2>needed to be made, and a lot of people were

1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:08.640
<v Speaker 2>doing that. Most people got rid of there. They're great

1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:11.080
<v Speaker 2>two bikes in New York.

1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:23.400
<v Speaker 1>So we went, you know, scully out of twelve. But

1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:26.840
<v Speaker 1>basically it went from you know, four to eight to

1:01:26.920 --> 1:01:30.920
<v Speaker 1>sixteen to twenty four. Tell us about but what tell

1:01:31.000 --> 1:01:32.840
<v Speaker 1>us about the evolution of the boards.

1:01:33.920 --> 1:01:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, the boards didn't change once we got to seventh Avenue.

1:01:39.840 --> 1:01:44.760
<v Speaker 2>There were new consoles and they were all capable. The

1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:50.800
<v Speaker 2>one that wasn't was a telefunking console which only had

1:01:50.880 --> 1:01:56.880
<v Speaker 2>any track output, but we only had an a track

1:01:57.000 --> 1:02:02.160
<v Speaker 2>machine and it usually worked out. But all the other

1:02:02.280 --> 1:02:08.120
<v Speaker 2>consoles were now at sixteen and he had two consoles

1:02:08.880 --> 1:02:12.880
<v Speaker 2>made for an R by a guy named Neil Munsey,

1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:19.200
<v Speaker 2>a Canadian, and he built everything to do anything beyond that.

1:02:19.640 --> 1:02:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So he knew about twenty four possibly coming in, and

1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:27.480
<v Speaker 2>sid come in pretty fast within a couple of years,

1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:32.720
<v Speaker 2>and so there were twenty four buses on those consoles.

1:02:33.680 --> 1:02:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you have this Jimmy Smith date, how long had

1:02:38.920 --> 1:02:42.720
<v Speaker 1>you been a second before that date? And after that date?

1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:45.120
<v Speaker 1>How long does it take you to get more tied

1:02:45.200 --> 1:02:48.240
<v Speaker 1>behind the board.

1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I was a second for about eight months and fill

1:02:53.840 --> 1:02:58.959
<v Speaker 2>gaving the opportunity. But I had had plenty of time

1:02:59.000 --> 1:03:04.720
<v Speaker 2>behind the console because Phil's policy was when the studio's

1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:10.040
<v Speaker 2>not working, you can come in. You can bring a rehearsal,

1:03:10.080 --> 1:03:13.160
<v Speaker 2>bland or a band you like and work with them.

1:03:13.600 --> 1:03:19.200
<v Speaker 2>So we had access by ourselves to the alarm system,

1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:23.320
<v Speaker 2>the elevators. You can go in and get there and

1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:27.640
<v Speaker 2>just work, and he was totally cool with that. So

1:03:27.760 --> 1:03:30.040
<v Speaker 2>I had a pretty good amount of time but doing

1:03:30.120 --> 1:03:35.320
<v Speaker 2>demos and screwing up all the time. And it wasn't

1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:41.760
<v Speaker 2>until Jimmy that I had a little more conscious about

1:03:42.280 --> 1:03:45.200
<v Speaker 2>what I was doing and what could be bad and

1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:49.080
<v Speaker 2>what to look for and trying to blend everything in

1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:52.600
<v Speaker 2>the mix that they would come in and listen to

1:03:52.640 --> 1:04:01.080
<v Speaker 2>it and you know, it be okay. So after that time,

1:04:03.200 --> 1:04:09.680
<v Speaker 2>I think they got me started doing jingles and that's

1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:14.960
<v Speaker 2>all I did. But then I had a friend from

1:04:15.080 --> 1:04:21.240
<v Speaker 2>high school who was a trombone player in what was

1:04:21.280 --> 1:04:26.240
<v Speaker 2>that big horn band, Blood, Blood, Sweat and Tears, Yeah,

1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and they were doing a day. The whole band was

1:04:30.560 --> 1:04:34.760
<v Speaker 2>doing a day for another artist, and my friend Jerry

1:04:34.800 --> 1:04:38.680
<v Speaker 2>called me and said, you want to do this? Yeah,

1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:43.360
<v Speaker 2>you know. So it was the whole band and now

1:04:43.400 --> 1:04:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I was doing a record day for the first time.

1:04:45.680 --> 1:04:53.240
<v Speaker 2>This is in sixty eight and it worked out well.

1:04:53.400 --> 1:04:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Brick came out. It was at a hit. There was

1:04:56.400 --> 1:05:00.640
<v Speaker 2>nothing about it that appealed to anyone, but it was fun,

1:05:00.840 --> 1:05:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it was good. It sounded okay to me at the time.

1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I never listened to it again, but from that point

1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:15.080
<v Speaker 2>on I started to get dates and the office who

1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:19.560
<v Speaker 2>booked everybody said, what you've done record date, you can

1:05:19.640 --> 1:05:22.919
<v Speaker 2>do others. And they were the ones that gave me Van.

1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:29.040
<v Speaker 1>To what degree did you have to bring in your

1:05:29.080 --> 1:05:33.960
<v Speaker 1>own business and hustle or did studio manager give you work?

1:05:35.080 --> 1:05:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, they gave you work for a while and they

1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:45.040
<v Speaker 2>say you're only as good as your last hip. And

1:05:46.560 --> 1:05:51.200
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have any hits at that point, but they

1:05:51.360 --> 1:05:55.680
<v Speaker 2>gave me Van and they said, you know, they actually

1:05:56.160 --> 1:05:59.320
<v Speaker 2>had a bunch of guys. Van was going from one

1:05:59.440 --> 1:06:04.440
<v Speaker 2>engineer to another, but I was the last engineer that

1:06:04.600 --> 1:06:09.280
<v Speaker 2>worked with Van tracking and I stayed to mix the record.

1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:13.800
<v Speaker 2>So that worked out great. And when that came out,

1:06:14.360 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 2>that was wasn't a big hit where it sold a

1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:23.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of units. I think it took like three years

1:06:23.440 --> 1:06:28.960
<v Speaker 2>to go gold. But it got a tremendous amount of

1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:34.400
<v Speaker 2>airplay on FM, and you know, and now I was

1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:38.320
<v Speaker 2>known for having done that and having mixed that, and

1:06:38.400 --> 1:06:42.160
<v Speaker 2>now calls were coming in for me and they didn't

1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:46.960
<v Speaker 2>have to place be anymore. People were actually asking can

1:06:47.040 --> 1:06:51.840
<v Speaker 2>I work with Elliott? And that was a thing, and

1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:55.920
<v Speaker 2>now I could say, well, I think I deserved more money.

1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.800
<v Speaker 2>And you had to go through it, you know, failed

1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:04.800
<v Speaker 2>to take care of that. You know, his partner did

1:07:04.960 --> 1:07:09.840
<v Speaker 2>all the negotiating with engineers, and it was hard. It

1:07:09.960 --> 1:07:14.480
<v Speaker 2>was difficult to get them to pay. I think the last,

1:07:15.840 --> 1:07:19.400
<v Speaker 2>the last time I worked on staff, they paid me

1:07:20.120 --> 1:07:24.800
<v Speaker 2>one thousand dollars a week. No profit sharing, no nothing,

1:07:25.160 --> 1:07:29.040
<v Speaker 2>no anything, you know, but a thousand seemed pretty good.

1:07:29.640 --> 1:07:34.760
<v Speaker 2>But then I realized that I was bringing them at

1:07:34.840 --> 1:07:38.760
<v Speaker 2>least a million dollars a year in the dates I

1:07:38.880 --> 1:07:42.840
<v Speaker 2>was doing, And I said, I went back to him,

1:07:42.880 --> 1:07:46.480
<v Speaker 2>I said, you know, I think what we should do

1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:49.120
<v Speaker 2>is I don't want to be paid anymore by you.

1:07:49.720 --> 1:07:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I want to get a commission on the hours the

1:07:54.360 --> 1:08:01.640
<v Speaker 2>tape and rentals and they hempted hard and didn't want

1:08:01.680 --> 1:08:05.480
<v Speaker 2>to do it. And I had an Ashford and Simpson

1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:10.200
<v Speaker 2>record coming up, and they said we're not going to

1:08:10.240 --> 1:08:16.240
<v Speaker 2>do it. So I called Valerie. I said you could

1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:19.080
<v Speaker 2>do me a big favor. I told her what was

1:08:19.120 --> 1:08:23.800
<v Speaker 2>going on, and Nick heard about it too. I said,

1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:29.719
<v Speaker 2>canceled the time, and she called up and canceled the time,

1:08:30.960 --> 1:08:36.400
<v Speaker 2>and they said what happened? And I said, look, you

1:08:36.439 --> 1:08:38.760
<v Speaker 2>don't want to pay me. I don't want to work here.

1:08:39.720 --> 1:08:43.839
<v Speaker 2>I could work anywhere and get a commission. I think

1:08:44.320 --> 1:08:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know, but I was wanting to take a

1:08:47.080 --> 1:08:51.800
<v Speaker 2>chance to say why should I be here? So they

1:08:51.960 --> 1:08:56.000
<v Speaker 2>finally agreed to everything I said, and it was fifteen

1:08:56.080 --> 1:09:01.040
<v Speaker 2>percent commission. So the first week with that for Simpson,

1:09:01.760 --> 1:09:07.200
<v Speaker 2>I went from one thousand to six thousand. They went nuts.

1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:12.320
<v Speaker 2>They hated it. They wanted to change it. Okay, we'll

1:09:12.360 --> 1:09:17.040
<v Speaker 2>give you fifteen percent on time and we'll give you

1:09:17.640 --> 1:09:22.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it was ten percent on rentals and five

1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:25.400
<v Speaker 2>percent on tape, so it came down. But I was

1:09:25.439 --> 1:09:29.640
<v Speaker 2>making so much more money. You know. I stayed A

1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:33.559
<v Speaker 2>and R. I did everything at an R until people

1:09:33.840 --> 1:09:36.920
<v Speaker 2>started calling me and saying, hey, can you come out

1:09:36.960 --> 1:09:40.160
<v Speaker 2>to LA, can you do this? Can you work as

1:09:40.200 --> 1:09:43.799
<v Speaker 2>a power station? You know, so things start to happen.

1:09:45.520 --> 1:09:48.080
<v Speaker 1>What year was that when you started to spread out

1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:49.800
<v Speaker 1>work in other studios?

1:09:51.360 --> 1:10:01.240
<v Speaker 2>It was seventy three, okay, is.

1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:05.000
<v Speaker 1>You know people want to work with people who were successful,

1:10:05.320 --> 1:10:08.600
<v Speaker 1>and you had some success. But what else were you

1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:11.040
<v Speaker 1>bringing to the studio? What was the magic that you

1:10:11.160 --> 1:10:12.400
<v Speaker 1>had that others didn't have?

1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:19.960
<v Speaker 2>God, I wish I could say I don't really know.

1:10:20.360 --> 1:10:26.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean I knew from Phil like it was something

1:10:28.000 --> 1:10:31.400
<v Speaker 2>to set up a room. You know, you're working with

1:10:31.560 --> 1:10:34.680
<v Speaker 2>an artist for maybe two weeks at a time. They

1:10:34.720 --> 1:10:39.519
<v Speaker 2>had a room totally blocked out, and I was working

1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:44.519
<v Speaker 2>with a band called Jackie. The artist was a guy

1:10:44.600 --> 1:10:51.280
<v Speaker 2>named Jackie Lomax. He's still live anymore, yeah, And they

1:10:51.320 --> 1:10:55.760
<v Speaker 2>wanted to record everything live and he wanted to sing.

1:10:56.360 --> 1:10:59.160
<v Speaker 2>And the room we were working in had one vocal

1:10:59.280 --> 1:11:03.040
<v Speaker 2>with so he was set up in there, but the drums,

1:11:03.280 --> 1:11:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the bass and two guitars. Now two guitars, would you know?

1:11:09.320 --> 1:11:11.759
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't the right room to be doing this then.

1:11:12.720 --> 1:11:20.240
<v Speaker 2>And I ended up and was I got scaffolds in

1:11:20.240 --> 1:11:23.960
<v Speaker 2>the room. They were about eight feet high and I

1:11:24.040 --> 1:11:28.800
<v Speaker 2>had the amps put on the scaffolds, thinking well, be

1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:34.439
<v Speaker 2>less stuff going through the floor, and we did that way.

1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:38.479
<v Speaker 2>But when they walked in and saw this, they were like,

1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:47.040
<v Speaker 2>holy shit, this looked great. You know, so I accomplished

1:11:47.120 --> 1:11:52.320
<v Speaker 2>something doing that. To me, it sounded awful. You know,

1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:57.160
<v Speaker 2>it really didn't work. But they loved it, and Jackie

1:11:57.280 --> 1:12:02.280
<v Speaker 2>loved it, and he love everything about it. So that's

1:12:02.320 --> 1:12:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the only thing I could think of it, you know.

1:12:05.040 --> 1:12:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I had people thought I had magic with drums, and

1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:16.479
<v Speaker 2>it maybe did because they started work with Steely and

1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:22.000
<v Speaker 2>they wanted something that was different, and I did what

1:12:22.160 --> 1:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>they wanted and I started to get place. So well,

1:12:26.200 --> 1:12:30.080
<v Speaker 2>that's the guy only does is Steely Dan. And if

1:12:30.120 --> 1:12:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you want your record to sound like that, you know,

1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:38.559
<v Speaker 2>and most guys didn't, so it was problem getting bagged

1:12:38.720 --> 1:12:39.120
<v Speaker 2>like that.

1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, in the early days, you talk about mixing, you know,

1:12:43.680 --> 1:12:47.799
<v Speaker 1>recording three tracks, you're talking about phill blending the sound.

1:12:47.840 --> 1:12:53.920
<v Speaker 1>But it's not very long till we had sixty channels. Yeah,

1:12:53.960 --> 1:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>you got to mix down to twenty four, et cetera,

1:12:56.320 --> 1:12:59.599
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. How did you learn how to mix? Trial

1:12:59.640 --> 1:12:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and error?

1:13:07.120 --> 1:13:11.720
<v Speaker 2>It was for me it was using speakers that were

1:13:11.760 --> 1:13:17.320
<v Speaker 2>not very good and listening to a mix at a

1:13:17.439 --> 1:13:23.960
<v Speaker 2>very low level. You could barely hear anything that was

1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:28.800
<v Speaker 2>going on. You had a demand such quiet in a

1:13:28.880 --> 1:13:34.400
<v Speaker 2>room when you mixed, and you know, I insisted I

1:13:34.439 --> 1:13:38.400
<v Speaker 2>would never let anybody put their hands on a console

1:13:38.520 --> 1:13:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and say can I do the guitar or can I

1:13:43.080 --> 1:13:47.000
<v Speaker 2>do the bass or I never did that, And Steely

1:13:47.200 --> 1:13:51.080
<v Speaker 2>was the first one that said that. Where Walter wanted

1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:55.240
<v Speaker 2>to work guitar, Gary one who worked the vocal. You know,

1:13:55.280 --> 1:13:59.760
<v Speaker 2>it was just like and finally, after about two passes

1:14:00.320 --> 1:14:04.759
<v Speaker 2>at Black Cow, I said, this is not working.

1:14:05.520 --> 1:14:06.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, you.

1:14:06.040 --> 1:14:10.639
<v Speaker 2>Guys are making mistakes and you're lasting up what I'm doing.

1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I can do this all, just let me do it.

1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:17.160
<v Speaker 2>And they backed off and that's where it went from

1:14:17.160 --> 1:14:19.920
<v Speaker 2>there on. I did everything by myself.

1:14:20.960 --> 1:14:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, there were very particular cats you mixed, and you

1:14:26.320 --> 1:14:30.040
<v Speaker 1>sent them to mix. What did they say? How many

1:14:30.040 --> 1:14:32.559
<v Speaker 1>times did you have to remix a tweak till they

1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:33.520
<v Speaker 1>were satisfied?

1:14:35.680 --> 1:14:40.320
<v Speaker 2>On Asia, that was the first record I mixed for him,

1:14:41.479 --> 1:14:51.120
<v Speaker 2>and it only happened on one cut on Asia, And

1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:56.080
<v Speaker 2>what happened we did the cut? It was twenty four track,

1:14:56.400 --> 1:15:01.000
<v Speaker 2>and it was loaded with different you know, on one

1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:04.680
<v Speaker 2>track there would be a guitar, a vocal, you know,

1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:08.639
<v Speaker 2>different things on the track, and you constantly you'd get

1:15:08.760 --> 1:15:12.559
<v Speaker 2>as far as the verse and have to repatch certain things,

1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:17.120
<v Speaker 2>or had setups for where you knew you were going

1:15:17.160 --> 1:15:21.360
<v Speaker 2>to have to bring that fader down to and we

1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:24.080
<v Speaker 2>did that. And there was one spot in the mix

1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:30.400
<v Speaker 2>right after Steve's solo where the bass had to cut out,

1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:38.799
<v Speaker 2>and I had to cut it out before and after

1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the solo we went back into the next part. I

1:15:42.360 --> 1:15:45.960
<v Speaker 2>never put the bass on because you could hear a

1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:50.200
<v Speaker 2>little bit of the bass through the drums, and I

1:15:50.240 --> 1:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>thought it seemed okay. They got back to California and

1:15:56.240 --> 1:15:59.600
<v Speaker 2>I get called from Gary and he says, there's this

1:16:00.400 --> 1:16:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Asia has no base in the end. I said, no,

1:16:05.320 --> 1:16:10.000
<v Speaker 2>that can't be. You know, we're coming back. We want

1:16:10.040 --> 1:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>to do that, do that again. And I started thinking

1:16:16.000 --> 1:16:20.639
<v Speaker 2>about it and realize, you know, maybe I didn't put

1:16:20.640 --> 1:16:26.920
<v Speaker 2>the base on, and sure enough I didn't. So but

1:16:27.040 --> 1:16:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I had notes for Asia, I had photographs where the

1:16:30.960 --> 1:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>EQ was where you know, it was all manual. There

1:16:34.200 --> 1:16:40.200
<v Speaker 2>was no computers, no nothing. So that morning I got

1:16:40.200 --> 1:16:45.280
<v Speaker 2>to mix up close, really close to where it was,

1:16:46.520 --> 1:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>and I said, they walked in the city and I said,

1:16:49.840 --> 1:16:53.839
<v Speaker 2>you guys are fucking crazy. There's plenty of base on there.

1:16:54.560 --> 1:16:57.080
<v Speaker 2>I kicked it up point and I said, listen to this,

1:16:58.240 --> 1:17:06.639
<v Speaker 2>and I played the take and they said, no, that's

1:17:07.600 --> 1:17:12.000
<v Speaker 2>that does sound like what we have And I started laughing.

1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:17.040
<v Speaker 2>You know what you do? Try to remix it? Yeah,

1:17:17.200 --> 1:17:20.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I got it up. I said, okay, let's

1:17:20.520 --> 1:17:24.439
<v Speaker 2>start again. And when we started a whole song from

1:17:24.439 --> 1:17:27.240
<v Speaker 2>the beginning the first time it took I think it

1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>took three days to mix that.

1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:34.280
<v Speaker 1>Generally speaking, do you mix fast or slow?

1:17:36.680 --> 1:17:43.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, from doing jingles, they used to mix fast. By

1:17:43.120 --> 1:17:49.160
<v Speaker 2>the time I got to the Eagles and Steely Steely first, Yeah,

1:17:49.160 --> 1:17:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I was mixing pretty son.

1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:56.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's use the Eagles as an example. By time

1:17:56.520 --> 1:18:00.160
<v Speaker 1>you work with Eagles, they've had experience with a lot

1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:04.880
<v Speaker 1>of other people. So what's it like working with a

1:18:04.960 --> 1:18:09.320
<v Speaker 1>client that you know you're new, but they're not new

1:18:09.400 --> 1:18:13.040
<v Speaker 1>to their own music? How demanding and how accepting of

1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:13.720
<v Speaker 1>you are they?

1:18:15.800 --> 1:18:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, I had been working with Glenn a lot before

1:18:20.880 --> 1:18:24.000
<v Speaker 2>they got back together, so I did a bunch of

1:18:24.000 --> 1:18:27.680
<v Speaker 2>things with him and I had quite a few hits.

1:18:28.120 --> 1:18:33.080
<v Speaker 2>So when they got back together, Glenn said, Glenn called

1:18:33.120 --> 1:18:37.200
<v Speaker 2>me up. He said, because there was nothing going on,

1:18:37.360 --> 1:18:42.920
<v Speaker 2>he said, I feel like doing an Needles record. I said, no,

1:18:43.200 --> 1:18:48.040
<v Speaker 2>come on really, and he said, yeah, we're getting back

1:18:48.040 --> 1:18:51.440
<v Speaker 2>to here. Do we want you to do it? I

1:18:51.520 --> 1:18:55.080
<v Speaker 2>was beside myself, and Irving called me up. He said,

1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to fly you out. I want you to

1:18:57.840 --> 1:19:05.000
<v Speaker 2>have the band rehearsing because it's for MTV. And I

1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:09.240
<v Speaker 2>came out. They were all on acoustic guitars. Acousta pays,

1:19:09.479 --> 1:19:13.479
<v Speaker 2>no dryme stuff going on. Just hearing these guys sing,

1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:19.439
<v Speaker 2>and it was mind boggling that these guys sounded as

1:19:19.479 --> 1:19:25.960
<v Speaker 2>good as they were and they accept me. I knew

1:19:26.040 --> 1:19:30.479
<v Speaker 2>Timmy from before because he was in Jimmy Buffett's ban

1:19:30.640 --> 1:19:36.920
<v Speaker 2>for a while. And meeting Joe and Don and Felder,

1:19:37.160 --> 1:19:40.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was a great experience for me. I

1:19:40.160 --> 1:19:46.160
<v Speaker 2>felt very comfortable. The hours were incredibly long, but it

1:19:46.240 --> 1:19:47.160
<v Speaker 2>was well worth it.

1:19:55.800 --> 1:20:00.920
<v Speaker 1>So once you start to have a success today producers

1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:04.400
<v Speaker 1>have managers, et cetera. But we're going back. You know,

1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.479
<v Speaker 1>you're there more in the beginning when it blows up

1:20:06.680 --> 1:20:09.719
<v Speaker 1>Are you hustling for work yourself or are you sitting

1:20:09.720 --> 1:20:11.080
<v Speaker 1>there waiting for the phone to ring?

1:20:11.160 --> 1:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>What's it like in what party, what time period?

1:20:16.280 --> 1:20:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Let's start with the seventies. You leave you know, you're

1:20:19.080 --> 1:20:21.880
<v Speaker 1>talking about seventy three, you leave A and R, And

1:20:21.960 --> 1:20:24.160
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about that period. There was a lot of

1:20:24.200 --> 1:20:27.800
<v Speaker 1>money before the business crashed in seventy nine. Could you

1:20:27.920 --> 1:20:30.479
<v Speaker 1>just wait for the phone to ring? Or were you

1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:32.599
<v Speaker 1>out working it saying hey, yeah, you know you need

1:20:32.640 --> 1:20:34.840
<v Speaker 1>to work with me. I'm good, you know, you know.

1:20:35.040 --> 1:20:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Blah blah blah. I had a manager and they were

1:20:39.400 --> 1:20:44.519
<v Speaker 2>pretty big, very good, and I never heard at all.

1:20:45.160 --> 1:20:47.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I was working all the time in those

1:20:47.760 --> 1:20:53.599
<v Speaker 2>years in the nineties, the beginning, like ninety one ninety two,

1:20:54.760 --> 1:20:58.559
<v Speaker 2>it was harder work with us.

1:20:59.120 --> 1:20:59.960
<v Speaker 1>So how'd you cope with it?

1:21:01.800 --> 1:21:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't work And that was at that point. That

1:21:07.040 --> 1:21:12.439
<v Speaker 2>was when it was like ninety three. Glenn called me

1:21:12.560 --> 1:21:15.240
<v Speaker 2>up and said, do you want to do an Eagles record?

1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>And that changed my life right then doing the Eagles.

1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I had so much stuff after that.

1:21:27.040 --> 1:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>So doing the Eagles, did people call you just because

1:21:30.000 --> 1:21:31.080
<v Speaker 1>you did the Eagles?

1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? And because it was MTV. It was what they

1:21:38.280 --> 1:21:46.559
<v Speaker 2>call that show unplugged, right. So right after that, I

1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:50.400
<v Speaker 2>got a call from Fleetwood Mac. They were doing Unplugged.

1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.040
<v Speaker 2>They wanted me to do that, but they wanted me

1:21:53.160 --> 1:21:58.240
<v Speaker 2>to produce it as well with Lindsay, so I did that.

1:21:58.439 --> 1:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>After that, I got a call from John Sometimes the

1:22:05.320 --> 1:22:12.679
<v Speaker 2>mind goes Cretin's clear Water. He was doing the same

1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:16.519
<v Speaker 2>thing and he said, well, you do mine, and I

1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:20.760
<v Speaker 2>did his. So it was We're constantly coming in and

1:22:20.880 --> 1:22:24.640
<v Speaker 2>after that, people just I would do a lot of

1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:28.760
<v Speaker 2>unplug seth just mixing. They weren't me to mix it

1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:29.879
<v Speaker 2>more than anything.

1:22:32.760 --> 1:22:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Well in those days, you know, like sometime in the seventies,

1:22:39.600 --> 1:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>FM would broadcast live stuff in stereo. But mixing. You know,

1:22:45.600 --> 1:22:47.800
<v Speaker 1>when you're mixing Asia, you want it to sound good

1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:50.840
<v Speaker 1>on small speakers, but you also want high fidelity. You're

1:22:50.880 --> 1:22:53.759
<v Speaker 1>mixing for television. Most people are listening to a tiny

1:22:53.800 --> 1:22:55.880
<v Speaker 1>little speaker. How do you do that?

1:22:57.200 --> 1:23:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, by the nineties it was stere and you know,

1:23:03.000 --> 1:23:06.439
<v Speaker 2>I'd been using the end it's tens for a while

1:23:06.880 --> 1:23:11.600
<v Speaker 2>and I knew what level to listen to and what

1:23:11.800 --> 1:23:15.960
<v Speaker 2>would give me in return. So you know, if they

1:23:16.000 --> 1:23:19.760
<v Speaker 2>were there was always a set of General X or

1:23:19.800 --> 1:23:23.400
<v Speaker 2>something nearby, so if the band came in, they could

1:23:23.400 --> 1:23:25.240
<v Speaker 2>hear it a louder on those.

1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, are you still a fan of the NS Tens?

1:23:31.720 --> 1:23:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I am.

1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I call you to work to what degree

1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:40.400
<v Speaker 1>are you particular about equipment?

1:23:45.400 --> 1:23:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm particular. You know. I've done all my best work

1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:54.679
<v Speaker 2>on a Neive console, so I try and to always

1:23:54.800 --> 1:24:01.680
<v Speaker 2>work on an EVE. I'll direct some to a studio

1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>that has an EVE.

1:24:04.479 --> 1:24:07.280
<v Speaker 1>So what's your take on SSL? When that became in

1:24:07.360 --> 1:24:10.559
<v Speaker 1>and they had their automation, et cetera. What did you

1:24:10.680 --> 1:24:13.000
<v Speaker 1>not hear or there? What did you not like about it?

1:24:14.120 --> 1:24:19.040
<v Speaker 2>I didn't like the EQ very much, but I did

1:24:19.040 --> 1:24:27.280
<v Speaker 2>an album. He was a songwriter, an Irish songwriter, Gary

1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Katz produced it, and he asked me to come over

1:24:31.200 --> 1:24:32.879
<v Speaker 2>to Paul Brady.

1:24:33.520 --> 1:24:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:24:33.920 --> 1:24:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Paul Brady, Yeah, And I was mixing on the SSL,

1:24:42.720 --> 1:24:46.320
<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden I went to recall a

1:24:46.400 --> 1:24:52.439
<v Speaker 2>mix and erased it, and every time I went back,

1:24:52.880 --> 1:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>it would erase a mix. So after that, I said,

1:24:58.360 --> 1:24:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm done with this.

1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Although I happened to love the sound of the record.

1:25:02.600 --> 1:25:06.640
<v Speaker 1>That's a great record. Yeah, thanks, really, I listened to

1:25:06.720 --> 1:25:09.840
<v Speaker 1>that record, can't stop wanting you and then trick or

1:25:09.880 --> 1:25:12.559
<v Speaker 1>treat with Bonnie Braid. So what point do you get

1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:14.839
<v Speaker 1>a percentage? I'm talking about a royalty.

1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:25.920
<v Speaker 2>It really started with me with Hornsby, the very first

1:25:25.920 --> 1:25:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Hornsby record. That was you know, I had earned royalties,

1:25:30.280 --> 1:25:36.720
<v Speaker 2>but you know ten bucks a quarter orangsby having a

1:25:36.760 --> 1:25:40.320
<v Speaker 2>record like that, it was very big. I mean it

1:25:40.360 --> 1:25:41.439
<v Speaker 2>bought me in my house.

1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.679
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember how many points was at one point?

1:25:45.800 --> 1:25:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Or what was it?

1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:52.160
<v Speaker 2>Uh? It was it was two.

1:25:53.640 --> 1:25:57.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're all getting older by the minute new people

1:25:57.640 --> 1:26:00.639
<v Speaker 1>come up. Does it get to a point people say

1:26:01.320 --> 1:26:03.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't want you, I want the younger guy. He

1:26:03.920 --> 1:26:06.280
<v Speaker 1>worked on the younger thing. Do you find that ageism

1:26:06.400 --> 1:26:07.840
<v Speaker 1>involved irrelevant of talent?

1:26:09.200 --> 1:26:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Well? I know that's the reason nobody else says it

1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>to you. You know, and I think about some of

1:26:17.800 --> 1:26:21.640
<v Speaker 2>the artists and making records stay They don't want to

1:26:21.680 --> 1:26:24.120
<v Speaker 2>work with me, but I don't really want to work

1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:30.200
<v Speaker 2>with them either, you know. So you know we're taking

1:26:30.240 --> 1:26:32.599
<v Speaker 2>it on the road and telling your stories. Now.

1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:40.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it switches to digital this century in terms of

1:26:40.560 --> 1:26:45.479
<v Speaker 1>recording on computers. You know, pro tools, logic, et cetera.

1:26:45.600 --> 1:26:49.599
<v Speaker 1>That's a huge evolution when that starts to happen. Are

1:26:49.640 --> 1:26:51.960
<v Speaker 1>you all in and learning? Are you like one of

1:26:52.000 --> 1:26:54.439
<v Speaker 1>the people say no, no, no, I'm holding on that

1:26:54.520 --> 1:26:55.479
<v Speaker 1>stuff will never work.

1:26:56.479 --> 1:27:01.439
<v Speaker 2>No. No. I went along with it, but it never

1:27:01.840 --> 1:27:07.960
<v Speaker 2>ever said don't use analog. I was still in favor

1:27:08.400 --> 1:27:14.599
<v Speaker 2>of doing analog before approach tools and sitting here, I

1:27:14.640 --> 1:27:18.679
<v Speaker 2>haven't told you this. Josh knew it, but sitting here

1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:25.320
<v Speaker 2>in the corners George best merk and he hasn't heard

1:27:25.439 --> 1:27:29.599
<v Speaker 2>anything because I'm in buds. But we used to get

1:27:29.600 --> 1:27:33.800
<v Speaker 2>in arguments all the time about Didge and analog, and

1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>he would say, you don't know what you're talking about.

1:27:37.880 --> 1:27:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Dig is better, and I would just be off on analog.

1:27:43.800 --> 1:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>And finally one day we got a call from Berkeley

1:27:48.960 --> 1:27:54.240
<v Speaker 2>in Boston to both take part in doing working with

1:27:54.479 --> 1:28:00.439
<v Speaker 2>Kathy Mattea. She was there doing a writing clinic and

1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:03.040
<v Speaker 2>they had written a song and they wanted to record it,

1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:05.599
<v Speaker 2>and George and I came up there to do it,

1:28:06.720 --> 1:28:10.080
<v Speaker 2>and uh, he wanted to do it? Did I want

1:28:10.120 --> 1:28:16.920
<v Speaker 2>to do analog? And we did it both ways, and

1:28:17.720 --> 1:28:24.080
<v Speaker 2>after we were done, George looked at me, George, remember

1:28:24.160 --> 1:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>what you said, no, he said.

1:28:30.160 --> 1:28:36.519
<v Speaker 4>The analog does sound betater. Okay. At this late date,

1:28:37.479 --> 1:28:40.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, there's hard to get tape. There was that

1:28:40.520 --> 1:28:42.080
<v Speaker 4>class system for a while.

1:28:42.080 --> 1:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>They was supposed to imitate analog, but the sampling rates

1:28:45.400 --> 1:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>have gotten higher and higher and higher. Yeah, today, how

1:28:50.760 --> 1:28:56.880
<v Speaker 1>do you feel about digital compunity analog the same?

1:28:59.360 --> 1:29:03.240
<v Speaker 2>You know? I I always when I did antalog, I

1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:07.320
<v Speaker 2>always work with Dolbie. You know, I recorded a fifteen

1:29:07.800 --> 1:29:12.960
<v Speaker 2>with Doby's, so the noise level was pretty good, you know,

1:29:13.200 --> 1:29:15.720
<v Speaker 2>and to day I like that.

1:29:18.320 --> 1:29:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk vinyl. So in the old days, the

1:29:25.080 --> 1:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>records were cut out aalog and they're on a vinyl record,

1:29:28.120 --> 1:29:33.920
<v Speaker 1>which inherently has compromises. Does it make any sense to

1:29:34.080 --> 1:29:36.200
<v Speaker 1>have a digital recording on vinyl.

1:29:40.160 --> 1:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, they're doing it, that's not my question. Yeah, I

1:29:47.120 --> 1:29:54.160
<v Speaker 2>think so, whether it's good or not, it could be.

1:29:54.320 --> 1:29:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. If I couldn't stay one way or

1:29:57.080 --> 1:30:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the other. Oh no, don't do that. You know, people

1:30:01.040 --> 1:30:05.280
<v Speaker 2>love vinyl, and you know, there's a fair amount of

1:30:05.400 --> 1:30:13.120
<v Speaker 2>vinyl being sold now, especially in New York. And I've

1:30:13.200 --> 1:30:19.280
<v Speaker 2>done digital records that came out on vinyl and they

1:30:19.360 --> 1:30:23.719
<v Speaker 2>sound great, and you know, with new formats and Vinyl

1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:25.799
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and eighty.

1:30:25.960 --> 1:30:30.400
<v Speaker 1>They're pretty great. Wait, let's hold on a second. You're

1:30:30.439 --> 1:30:35.759
<v Speaker 1>cutting digital, there's no compromises. When it goes to vinyl.

1:30:36.439 --> 1:30:40.680
<v Speaker 1>There are a million compromises. You know, roll off this

1:30:40.720 --> 1:30:43.000
<v Speaker 1>and that. Doesn't that affect the sound?

1:30:45.200 --> 1:30:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Well. A lot of them are doing one side double records,

1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:55.599
<v Speaker 2>so you know you get two songs on the side.

1:30:56.560 --> 1:31:01.720
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty good. Yeah, I can't complain about that. I've done.

1:31:02.240 --> 1:31:09.519
<v Speaker 2>I did some. George did a record with Jennifer that

1:31:09.880 --> 1:31:15.400
<v Speaker 2>was what record was famous, famous Blue Rine Code, and

1:31:15.439 --> 1:31:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I did the one right after and they were both done.

1:31:19.600 --> 1:31:24.519
<v Speaker 2>You did digital, right, Yeah, I did too, But I

1:31:24.560 --> 1:31:28.160
<v Speaker 2>did Yeah, it was tape at that point. It was

1:31:28.640 --> 1:31:32.040
<v Speaker 2>ditch tape, uh and it went the final and it

1:31:32.120 --> 1:31:36.280
<v Speaker 2>sounded great. I couldn't complain about anything.

1:31:37.880 --> 1:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you were talking earlier about this person who

1:31:40.960 --> 1:31:46.799
<v Speaker 1>stiffed you shipping your gear, do you still travel with gear?

1:31:48.439 --> 1:31:57.240
<v Speaker 2>No, not anymore. I just make sure that they have

1:31:57.439 --> 1:32:01.360
<v Speaker 2>what I need at the studio, and its usually speakers,

1:32:02.000 --> 1:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and most places have in us sense, and that in

1:32:06.680 --> 1:32:11.680
<v Speaker 2>itself is if they haven't even n s tense in goodbye,

1:32:11.760 --> 1:32:12.559
<v Speaker 2>some set.

1:32:14.120 --> 1:32:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, do you ever get starstruck?

1:32:19.840 --> 1:32:34.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when the Eagles the MTV thing came out. We're

1:32:34.760 --> 1:32:39.000
<v Speaker 2>up for a couple of awards and I had co

1:32:39.120 --> 1:32:47.080
<v Speaker 2>produced set, and I got the the Grammys Radio City.

1:32:47.600 --> 1:32:54.160
<v Speaker 2>And in all the times that I'd done interviews for magazines,

1:32:54.880 --> 1:32:57.800
<v Speaker 2>they would always say, well, who if you work with,

1:32:58.000 --> 1:33:01.840
<v Speaker 2>who do you want to work that you haven't worked with?

1:33:02.560 --> 1:33:09.120
<v Speaker 2>And I would always say Peter Gabriel. And so we

1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:14.880
<v Speaker 2>went to the awards and my wife and I were

1:33:14.920 --> 1:33:19.240
<v Speaker 2>in the third borough at Radio City, and on my

1:33:19.560 --> 1:33:27.360
<v Speaker 2>side was Peter Gabriel. On her side was an Evedder

1:33:28.040 --> 1:33:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and I turned around. He introduced himself to me and

1:33:33.240 --> 1:33:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I told him who I was, and I must have

1:33:36.720 --> 1:33:41.559
<v Speaker 2>said it fifty times Peter Gabriel, you know. And he said, oh, wait,

1:33:42.000 --> 1:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>are you the guy that wanted to work with me?

1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>And I said, yeah, I'm that guy.

1:33:47.439 --> 1:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>He said, what for.

1:33:52.080 --> 1:33:54.840
<v Speaker 2>What? I thought it would be good for me?

1:33:57.000 --> 1:33:58.000
<v Speaker 1>So was that it?

1:33:58.960 --> 1:33:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:02.479
<v Speaker 1>That was it? So he never called you, you know,

1:34:02.680 --> 1:34:04.920
<v Speaker 1>after all that, But I.

1:34:04.880 --> 1:34:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Did get a call from Phil Collins. I did the

1:34:10.920 --> 1:34:14.479
<v Speaker 2>Tarzan movie with him.

1:34:14.640 --> 1:34:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so to what degree are you still working today?

1:34:20.320 --> 1:34:25.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm still working, but not as much, and I don't

1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:29.200
<v Speaker 2>want to make records when nobody's playing with each other.

1:34:30.000 --> 1:34:34.840
<v Speaker 2>So I'm doing more jazz than they used to. And

1:34:34.960 --> 1:34:38.120
<v Speaker 2>I like what happens. And a lot of people talk

1:34:38.200 --> 1:34:43.799
<v Speaker 2>about what happens with jazz band and what feeds it.

1:34:43.920 --> 1:34:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Like George, did he tell you about his encounter with

1:34:48.400 --> 1:34:53.440
<v Speaker 2>A one He was I think he's on Claude and

1:34:52.880 --> 1:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>he sent them a message saying AI. And he sent

1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:04.559
<v Speaker 2>them a mess it's saying, why does AI music sound

1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:09.880
<v Speaker 2>so fucking awful? And they wrote back to him and

1:35:09.920 --> 1:35:15.400
<v Speaker 2>they said, well, they're probably not playing in the same room. Uh,

1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:20.400
<v Speaker 2>they're not together, you know? Was there a lot more

1:35:20.439 --> 1:35:29.400
<v Speaker 2>than that? The six points come here.

1:35:27.760 --> 1:35:31.240
<v Speaker 3>But the idea of it being impossible for AI to

1:35:31.320 --> 1:35:35.000
<v Speaker 3>have intentionality? You remember this, I said you.

1:35:35.160 --> 1:35:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Of course, George, we started off with it, and I

1:35:38.280 --> 1:35:41.640
<v Speaker 1>totally agree with you. He h.

1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember when we used to share buds with

1:35:45.360 --> 1:35:48.800
<v Speaker 3>our girlfriends but one guy yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and

1:35:48.960 --> 1:35:56.760
<v Speaker 3>the other would take right right. And AI has these uh,

1:35:56.840 --> 1:36:00.200
<v Speaker 3>these limitations, right, I've got to put it in the

1:36:00.240 --> 1:36:00.599
<v Speaker 3>right ear.

1:36:02.360 --> 1:36:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:08.080
<v Speaker 3>AI has basic limitations that are pretty hard to overcome.

1:36:09.280 --> 1:36:12.719
<v Speaker 3>But one is that it can't have intentionality. It can't intend.

1:36:14.320 --> 1:36:16.000
<v Speaker 3>It can't intend to write a song.

1:36:16.720 --> 1:36:20.439
<v Speaker 1>Well, I find it interesting that all the talk from

1:36:20.439 --> 1:36:24.639
<v Speaker 1>the record companies is about AI. When you talk about

1:36:24.640 --> 1:36:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the intentionality and the creative process, no one is focusing

1:36:28.439 --> 1:36:28.800
<v Speaker 1>on that.

1:36:30.320 --> 1:36:35.880
<v Speaker 3>No, but that's that's what gives music. It's humanity.

1:36:36.320 --> 1:36:38.600
<v Speaker 1>I agree, and that's one of the problems with the

1:36:38.640 --> 1:36:39.400
<v Speaker 1>business today.

1:36:40.280 --> 1:36:46.360
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, but it can't. It can't. AI can't say, ah, wait,

1:36:46.760 --> 1:36:50.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm lacking humanity. Maybe I can fill it in with

1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:55.040
<v Speaker 3>this element of humanity. AI can't do that. It can't

1:36:55.280 --> 1:36:56.280
<v Speaker 3>self evaluate.

1:36:57.280 --> 1:37:01.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that we've lived through thirty plus years

1:37:01.040 --> 1:37:05.400
<v Speaker 1>of technological innovation and the new new thing, and they

1:37:05.479 --> 1:37:07.960
<v Speaker 1>keep focusing on this. It's like, oh, it's going to

1:37:08.040 --> 1:37:10.840
<v Speaker 1>be another step. When I agree with you, you can

1:37:10.920 --> 1:37:14.840
<v Speaker 1>get listen. I think we talked about this. AI can't

1:37:14.880 --> 1:37:18.360
<v Speaker 1>create something new. It can only be an amalgamation of

1:37:18.360 --> 1:37:21.040
<v Speaker 1>what came from the past. And this is a business

1:37:21.080 --> 1:37:23.720
<v Speaker 1>that's all focused on the new got I who can

1:37:23.800 --> 1:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>they come up with that? That's what we're looking for.

1:37:26.160 --> 1:37:32.160
<v Speaker 3>It's also AI is invariably a mix of other other

1:37:32.640 --> 1:37:37.400
<v Speaker 3>forms and other approaches, other ideas, to the point where

1:37:38.040 --> 1:37:42.400
<v Speaker 3>the result of a cycle of AI where it's cycles

1:37:42.479 --> 1:37:52.040
<v Speaker 3>where it goes through organizing a result an average result,

1:37:52.479 --> 1:37:58.080
<v Speaker 3>you inevitably end up with a beige sludge of mixed ideas.

1:37:58.720 --> 1:38:03.719
<v Speaker 3>And that that's not new, that's that's just pablem that's

1:38:03.720 --> 1:38:11.679
<v Speaker 3>that's uh. That's not something that establishes a new type

1:38:11.680 --> 1:38:18.720
<v Speaker 3>of music. Good vibrations. I can't invent good vibrations. It's

1:38:18.760 --> 1:38:22.080
<v Speaker 3>not an average of anything. It's new, and it's came

1:38:22.160 --> 1:38:26.000
<v Speaker 3>from somebody's recesses of somebody's brain. In this case, Brian

1:38:26.200 --> 1:38:30.080
<v Speaker 3>was his brain. Who knows where that came from?

1:38:30.120 --> 1:38:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Well articulated In any event, you're both there and I

1:38:33.000 --> 1:38:37.000
<v Speaker 1>know you're having a rehearsal tomorrow before you go live.

1:38:37.160 --> 1:38:40.600
<v Speaker 1>I want to wish both of you good luck. It

1:38:40.640 --> 1:38:43.479
<v Speaker 1>sounds like you're doing well. It's sold out to begin with,

1:38:44.080 --> 1:38:47.120
<v Speaker 1>and Elliott, I want to thank you so much for

1:38:47.160 --> 1:38:49.880
<v Speaker 1>telling your stories today. You're not on screen even though

1:38:49.880 --> 1:38:51.840
<v Speaker 1>we're audio only. Can you hear me there?

1:38:52.520 --> 1:38:52.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

1:38:52.840 --> 1:38:57.439
<v Speaker 1>I can, Okay, there is. I could tell. It's funny

1:38:57.520 --> 1:39:01.120
<v Speaker 1>because in a lot of businesses, you know, competitors don't

1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:04.920
<v Speaker 1>get along, but you guys are big buddies, so that's

1:39:04.960 --> 1:39:07.920
<v Speaker 1>great to see so Elliott, thanks so much for taking

1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:09.080
<v Speaker 1>this time with my audience.

1:39:09.720 --> 1:39:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me. You know, we've

1:39:14.479 --> 1:39:20.120
<v Speaker 2>you've always said things about me in your interviews before,

1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:26.439
<v Speaker 2>and there were such nice things. You know, it was

1:39:26.479 --> 1:39:29.639
<v Speaker 2>could have finally got a chance to be with you.

1:39:30.360 --> 1:39:34.120
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, I always admire excellence and some of

1:39:34.160 --> 1:39:38.280
<v Speaker 1>those records. I mean that that Hornsby record. I forgot

1:39:38.360 --> 1:39:42.280
<v Speaker 1>you did that, but that Paul Brady, you know that.

1:39:42.600 --> 1:39:44.559
<v Speaker 1>You know, Irving sent me some of the stuff before

1:39:44.600 --> 1:39:47.120
<v Speaker 1>it came out. The Eagles, did you tell you just

1:39:47.160 --> 1:39:54.360
<v Speaker 1>hear those voices together go wow? Yeah, yeah, really something Okay,

1:39:54.920 --> 1:39:57.439
<v Speaker 1>until next time. This is Bob Left six