WEBVTT - What is Project Maven?

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<v Speaker 1>Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

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<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer at

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<v Speaker 1>how stuff Works and I love all things tech. Although

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<v Speaker 1>this particular topic maybe a little less than usual because

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<v Speaker 1>it gets pretty harry. Seeing May two thousand eighteen, News

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<v Speaker 1>broke that more than a dozen Google employees had handed

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<v Speaker 1>in their resignations over the company's involvement in a program

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<v Speaker 1>called Project Maven. So what the heck is Project Maven

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<v Speaker 1>and why did those employees leave? And why have an

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<v Speaker 1>estimated four thousand Google employees put their names on petitions

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<v Speaker 1>to end the company's involvement with the project. It's time

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<v Speaker 1>to dive into a really serious current topic. Project Maven

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<v Speaker 1>is a large technology project overseen by the United States

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<v Speaker 1>Defense Department with a specific focus on bringing artificial intelligence

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<v Speaker 1>or AI applications into military functions and campaigns. The argument

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<v Speaker 1>for Project may even was that AI as a field

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<v Speaker 1>has been advancing for years, with particularly impressive advancements made

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<v Speaker 1>in the last couple of years alone, and yet the

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<v Speaker 1>military has lagged behind. As Air Force Lieutenant General Jack

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<v Speaker 1>sent Shanahan wrote in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

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<v Speaker 1>back in November. Quote. The US military still performs many

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<v Speaker 1>activities in a style that would be familiar to the

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<v Speaker 1>military of World War Two end quote. The argument was

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<v Speaker 1>that something needed to change to bring these processes into

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty first century. To that effect, on April two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand seventeen, Robert Work, who then was the Deputy Secretary

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<v Speaker 1>of the Defense Department, released a memo calling for the

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<v Speaker 1>establishment of a new team called Project Maven. Well that's

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<v Speaker 1>the nickname. The other name for the team was the

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<v Speaker 1>Algorithmic Warfare Cross Functional Team. The memos opening paragraph says this,

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<v Speaker 1>and I quote, as numerous studies have made clear, the

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Defense must integrate artificial intelligence and machine learning

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<v Speaker 1>more effectively across operations to maintain advantages over increasingly capable

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<v Speaker 1>adversaries and competitors. Although we have taken tentative steps to

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<v Speaker 1>explore the potential of artificial intelligence, big data, and deep learning,

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<v Speaker 1>I remain convinced that we need to do much more

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<v Speaker 1>and move much faster across d O D that's Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Defense to take advantage of recent and future advances

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<v Speaker 1>in these critical areas end quote. On its face, this

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<v Speaker 1>sounds pretty reasonable, or at least understandable. After all, AI

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<v Speaker 1>has the potential to do enormous good or harm depending

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<v Speaker 1>upon its design and implementation. To not pursue AI in

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<v Speaker 1>the realm of military applications seems like it would be

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<v Speaker 1>a bad idea. Other nations and militaries are certainly exploring

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<v Speaker 1>such options, and the landscape of warfare continues to change

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<v Speaker 1>and become more complex. Artificial or augmented intelligence would be

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<v Speaker 1>really handy in such a world. Being able to work

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<v Speaker 1>with sophisticated programs to identify targets, gather intelligence, and form

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<v Speaker 1>strategies could potentially win a conflict, save lives, or it

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<v Speaker 1>might even allow for a non violent method to resolve

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<v Speaker 1>a situation, which in my mind, tends to be the

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<v Speaker 1>best of all options. The memos third paragraph details what

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<v Speaker 1>this group's focus will be, and I quote yet again,

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<v Speaker 1>the a w c f t S first task is

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<v Speaker 1>to field technology to augment or automate processing, exploitation and

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<v Speaker 1>dissemination p e D for tactical Unmanned aerial system u

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<v Speaker 1>a S and mid altitude full motion video fm V

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<v Speaker 1>in support of the Defeat ISIS campaign. This will help

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<v Speaker 1>to reduce the human factors burden of FMV analysis, increase

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<v Speaker 1>actionable intelligence, and enhance military decision making. A w c

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<v Speaker 1>FT will number one organize a data labeling effort and develop, acquire,

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<v Speaker 1>and or modify algorithms to accomplish key tasks. Number two

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<v Speaker 1>identify required computational resources and identify a path to fielding

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<v Speaker 1>that infrastructure. And number three integrate algorithmic based technology with

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<v Speaker 1>programs of record in nine D day sprints. Now, remember

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<v Speaker 1>a sprint when we talked about agile frameworks is a

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<v Speaker 1>essentially a period of time in which a project takes

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<v Speaker 1>place and you're expected to do numerous updates throughout that

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<v Speaker 1>period and have something that is implementable by the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the sprint. Now, in other words, the earliest task

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<v Speaker 1>for this new project was to work on programs that

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<v Speaker 1>would allow unmanned aerial systems which we commonly refer to

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<v Speaker 1>as drones, to analyze full motion video with object detection

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<v Speaker 1>and classification in an effort to identify members of ISIS,

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<v Speaker 1>areas of interest, equipment and weapons that bad actors might

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<v Speaker 1>have at their disposal. The memo continues on to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the use of machine learning and automation and efforts

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<v Speaker 1>of improving intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. The memo established

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<v Speaker 1>May one, twenty seventeen, as the date of the first

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<v Speaker 1>meeting of the a w c F T OR Project

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<v Speaker 1>MAVEN to give reports directly to the Administrator of the program,

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<v Speaker 1>who would be Robert Work himself. Lieutenant General Shanahan was

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<v Speaker 1>named director of the project, which originally had only six

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<v Speaker 1>members on it, and this marked an aggressive strategy to

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<v Speaker 1>implement these technologies in the realm of the combat theater,

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<v Speaker 1>and to do so very quickly. Now that's not to

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<v Speaker 1>say that the Department of Defense was a stranger to

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<v Speaker 1>cutting edge technology. Far from it. In nineteen fifty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>President Dwight D. Eisenhower formed the Advanced Research Projects Agency

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<v Speaker 1>or ARPA, which would change names to the Defense Advanced

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<v Speaker 1>Research Projects Agency or DARPA in nineteen seventy two. While

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<v Speaker 1>the agency has swapped names back and forth since then

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of times, its mission has remained the same.

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<v Speaker 1>The office provides funding for various projects aimed to expand

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<v Speaker 1>science and technology, generally with some thought given towards the

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<v Speaker 1>possible military benefits. Those projects have led to amazing things,

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<v Speaker 1>including the Internet and the development of autonomous cars. But

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<v Speaker 1>while those projects have had and will continue to have

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<v Speaker 1>a major impact both in military and non military uses,

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<v Speaker 1>the focus wasn't narrow enough for the purposes of Project Mayven.

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<v Speaker 1>This project marked a change, one in which the military

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<v Speaker 1>would be reaching out to experts in the various disciplines

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<v Speaker 1>that comprise artificial intelligence, with the goal of improving military

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<v Speaker 1>capabilities that could be implemented as soon as possible in

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<v Speaker 1>a real world combat theater setting. Obviously, this raised many

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<v Speaker 1>questions about the process and implementation of technologies. The political

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<v Speaker 1>climate was, to put it mildly delicate. Many companies weren't

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<v Speaker 1>eager to get involved in projects in the wake of

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump's election to president, and various information leaks about

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<v Speaker 1>governments and corporations had left many more companies a little

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<v Speaker 1>cautious about getting involved in defense contracts. Part of the

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<v Speaker 1>strategy to deal with this reluctance was a tight focus

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<v Speaker 1>on a specific implementation of AI, that being full motion

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<v Speaker 1>video analysis. The AI and Project MAVEN isn't meant to

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<v Speaker 1>take any sort of military or offensive action. Instead, it's

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<v Speaker 1>meant to sift through data. More on that in just

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<v Speaker 1>a second, but first let's take a quick break to

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<v Speaker 1>thank our sponsor. Not only was the committee looking for

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<v Speaker 1>rapid development, the project also had the goal of streamlining

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<v Speaker 1>all the bureaucratic red tape most parties had to endure

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<v Speaker 1>when applying for funding from the government. The contracting procedures

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<v Speaker 1>with the government had a well earned reputation for being

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<v Speaker 1>laborious and slow. This alone discouraged many from applying to

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<v Speaker 1>be part of government projects. Why would you go through

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<v Speaker 1>the long approval process when you could work in the

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<v Speaker 1>private sector and make money the entire time. Also, project

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<v Speaker 1>may even focused on reducing the pains of contracting with

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<v Speaker 1>government agencies. I thought that was kind of a clever

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<v Speaker 1>part of the project, not just the idea of finding

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<v Speaker 1>a way to get these technologies rapidly developed and deployed,

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<v Speaker 1>but how to streamline the process on the front end

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<v Speaker 1>to encourage more participants in the project. And then there's

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<v Speaker 1>the desire for rapid deployment. Getting technology out in the

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<v Speaker 1>field can be a long process on top of everything else.

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<v Speaker 1>In short, all the stages of funding, developing, and implementing

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<v Speaker 1>technology are traditionally so slow when it comes to government

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<v Speaker 1>contracts that by the time you get the tech out

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<v Speaker 1>into the real world, it's already obsolete. Project may even

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<v Speaker 1>aimed to change all that. The goal was to develop

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<v Speaker 1>tools and iterations and allow the user community that's their quote,

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<v Speaker 1>to test them as they became available. Now, in this case,

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<v Speaker 1>the user community happens to be the military to create

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<v Speaker 1>an AI that can analyze full motion video and look

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<v Speaker 1>look for specific things within that video. That was the

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<v Speaker 1>whole purpose of the project, and it called for an

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<v Speaker 1>artificial neural network. I've talked about these before, but let

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<v Speaker 1>me give a quick rundown of what this is right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Roughly speaking, and artificial neural network is a system of

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<v Speaker 1>one or more computers in which units of calculation called neurons,

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<v Speaker 1>connect to one another through weighted values called synapses in

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<v Speaker 1>an effort process information in a way that's similar to

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<v Speaker 1>how our brains work. As these neurons perform operations on data,

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<v Speaker 1>they send the data through the synapses, which affects the

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<v Speaker 1>data itself. This data eventually emerges as output, though the

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<v Speaker 1>design of the neural network determines how many neurons it

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<v Speaker 1>must pass through before this happens. The goal is to

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<v Speaker 1>create a system that can actually learn, once trained to

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<v Speaker 1>do something, so Let's say you've got an artificial neural

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<v Speaker 1>network and you want to train it to recognize a

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<v Speaker 1>specific image, and we'll say, for the purposes of this example,

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<v Speaker 1>that the image is a cat. You start to feed

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<v Speaker 1>the artificial neural network a series of images, some of

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<v Speaker 1>them cats and some of them of other things, and

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<v Speaker 1>you design the network so it identifies an object as

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<v Speaker 1>a cat by process of elimination. And if it does

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<v Speaker 1>identify something as a cat and it's not a cat,

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<v Speaker 1>it generates an error. That error then back propagates through

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<v Speaker 1>the whole network, and the system quote unquote learns that

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<v Speaker 1>that particular image did not represent a cat, and if

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<v Speaker 1>it encounters that image again, it won't mistakenly identify the

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<v Speaker 1>image as a cat. The same is true if it

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<v Speaker 1>fails to identify a cat that is present in an image.

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<v Speaker 1>Doing this millions of times will refine the system as

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<v Speaker 1>it learns what is and is not a cat. Google

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<v Speaker 1>actually did something similar to this several years ago. Google's

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<v Speaker 1>research and development lab created an artificial neural network consisting

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<v Speaker 1>of sixteen thousand computer processors with a billion connections within

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<v Speaker 1>the system. They fed the system ten million YouTube video

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<v Speaker 1>thumbnails selected at random, then they gave the system a

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<v Speaker 1>list of twenty thousand items. The system began to recognize

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<v Speaker 1>pictures of cats using a deep learning algorithm. And remember,

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<v Speaker 1>an algorithm is just a set of instructions directions that

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<v Speaker 1>you follow in order to get to a specific result.

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<v Speaker 1>The big breakthrough year was that this system was able

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<v Speaker 1>to recognize the image of a cat without first being

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<v Speaker 1>taught what a cat actually was. It learned through training

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<v Speaker 1>itself by looking at this large set of data. In

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<v Speaker 1>a similar fashion, Project May even wished to develop an

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<v Speaker 1>artificial neural network that could identify potential ISIS activity. Lieutenant

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<v Speaker 1>General Shanahan wrote about how the military has countless hours

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<v Speaker 1>of footage gathered by unmanned aerial systems or drones. A

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<v Speaker 1>quick word about these. The ones he named specifically included

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<v Speaker 1>the Scan Eagle, the m Q one C Gray Eagle,

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<v Speaker 1>and the m Q nine Reaper. The Boeing in situ

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<v Speaker 1>Scan Eagle is a low altitude drone that is more

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<v Speaker 1>than five ft long or about one and a half meters,

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<v Speaker 1>with a wingspan a little more than ten ft or

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<v Speaker 1>three point one one ms wide. It can travel at

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<v Speaker 1>ninety two miles per hour. Also at kilometers per hour

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<v Speaker 1>at top speed, and it can stay in flight for

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<v Speaker 1>more than twenty four hours at a time. Has high

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<v Speaker 1>resolution imaging sensors on it, including thermal imagery sensors. The

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<v Speaker 1>m Q one C Gray Eagle is built by General Atomics.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a medium altitude drone and is an upgrade to

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<v Speaker 1>the famous Predator drone. It's much larger than the Scan Eagle,

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<v Speaker 1>at twenty eight feet or eight point five three ms

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<v Speaker 1>long and a wingspan of fifty six feet or seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>meters wide. It can travel at a hundred two miles

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<v Speaker 1>per hour or three nine kilometers per hour at top speed,

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<v Speaker 1>and it, unlike the Scan Eagle, can be armed with

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like bombs and missiles. The m Q nine Reaper,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes called the Predator B is even larger. It's more

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<v Speaker 1>than thirty six ft long or about eleven meters, it's

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<v Speaker 1>got a wingspan of sixty ft seven inches or twenty meters,

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<v Speaker 1>and it can travel at three hundred miles per hour

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<v Speaker 1>or two kilometers per hour at top speed, and it

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<v Speaker 1>can also carry a various armory of weapons all on itself.

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<v Speaker 1>So those are drones that could be used for offensive measures.

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<v Speaker 1>While the Lieutenant General was talking only about using an

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<v Speaker 1>artificial neural network to analyze video captured by devices like this.

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<v Speaker 1>Naming a couple of drones that are weaponized likely raised

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<v Speaker 1>many eyebrows, but let me stick with what he was

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<v Speaker 1>pitching back in November. Just for his argument, Shanahan specifically

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<v Speaker 1>talked about how these drones were gathering thousands of hours

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<v Speaker 1>of video intelligence, but sifting through that intelligence required even

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<v Speaker 1>more time and many human analysts. Even then, you could

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<v Speaker 1>only tackle a fraction of what was being gathered. This

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<v Speaker 1>meant that most of the time you were reacting to

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 1>something that had happened in the field. For example, if

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>an improvised explosive detonated, you might scour through video footage

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 1>of the area leading up to the detonation in an

0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 1>attempt to identify the persons responsible for it and then

0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.480
<v Speaker 1>track their movements. It still takes an incredible amount of

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 1>time and work to follow these things, but one of

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 1>you could automate the system, bringing up analysts to look

0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 1>at what Shanahan was referring to as higher value analysis

0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.040
<v Speaker 1>work and AI system that could comb through hours of

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.200
<v Speaker 1>data and automatically classify and label things, categorizing them either

0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.960
<v Speaker 1>as mundane and unimportant or something to pay attention to

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 1>flagging it for human analysis. It could conceivably make a

0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.960
<v Speaker 1>huge difference and speed things up. Not at the start.

0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Humans labeled more than one hundred fifty thousand images to

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 1>train Maven on data sets, with the goal of increasing

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.800
<v Speaker 1>that up to one million images by the end of January.

0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>This would give Maven a start at being able to

0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 1>identify various objects at different distances, resolutions, angles, and more.

0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.040
<v Speaker 1>Because remember, computer vision is a tricky thing. Teaching a

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 1>computer to recognize an image of something is tricky enough,

0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 1>even if you're just sticking to one kind of lighting,

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 1>one orientation. I always use the example of a coffee mug.

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.360
<v Speaker 1>Let's say you've got a red, bright red coffee mug

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.240
<v Speaker 1>and the handles pointed toward the left with respect to

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 1>your view through an image, and you teach a computer

0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.400
<v Speaker 1>this is a coffee mug. Well, what happens if you

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.360
<v Speaker 1>have it under a different lighting so it doesn't look

0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 1>like it's bright red, and maybe you've turned it so

0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>that the handles facing the other way, and maybe the

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 1>angle is a little bit different, so you're looking kind

0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 1>of down into the cup. Will the computers still be

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>able to recognize that as a coffee mug. You have

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 1>to train it. And then let's say that you change

0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 1>the color of the coffee mug. Is the exact same shape,

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.200
<v Speaker 1>but now it's blue instead of red. Will the computer

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:50.960
<v Speaker 1>recognize it. Let's say that you change the shape of

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the coffee mug. Now it's a different style of coffee

0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.360
<v Speaker 1>mug from the previous one. We humans can pick up

0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.480
<v Speaker 1>on this very quickly. You teach a human a couple

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 1>of things about coffee mugs, and then they kind of

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.120
<v Speaker 1>get the innate grasp of it. You can show them

0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:09.120
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of different sizes, shapes, colors, lighting conditions. They're

0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 1>going to recognize that as a coffee mug. The same

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.600
<v Speaker 1>is not necessarily true with computers, so training it is

0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 1>a laborious process. Now, once it is trained, it can

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.280
<v Speaker 1>go through data far faster than a human could, but

0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 1>you still have to teach it. Shanahan viewed this project

0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>as proof that a small, nimble team approach in getting

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.840
<v Speaker 1>the right parties involved worked, and that this in turn

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.280
<v Speaker 1>would spawn a new era of high tech projects aimed

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 1>at incorporating AI into other military operations. He also even

0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.280
<v Speaker 1>expressed a little caution about this era. So what exactly

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.199
<v Speaker 1>about all of this prompted so many at Google to

0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>protest the company's involvement. Well, I'll explain that in just

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>a second, but first let's take another quick break to

0:17:54.000 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 1>thank our sponsor. By the end of twenty seen technology

0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>developed for a project Maven was in use in various

0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.200
<v Speaker 1>sights in the Middle East, and that's an incredible turnaround.

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 1>It was less than a year that had gone by

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 1>since the April memo had launched the project, and already

0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>AI algorithms were being trained to look for specific types

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of data within full motion video footage. Not only was

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.080
<v Speaker 1>it being used in the Middle East, the military was

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.680
<v Speaker 1>already starting to use it in other parts of the

0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:30.960
<v Speaker 1>world like Africa. The military stress that this tech was

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.359
<v Speaker 1>meant to augment personnel's abilities in gathering and sifting through information.

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 1>It was meant to flag data so that a human

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>analyst could look it over. Nothing was automatically happening through

0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>this system. There was no intent to do anything beyond

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 1>analyzing information the military was already gathering. But that's still

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.560
<v Speaker 1>a pretty alarming revelation for many people and over at Google.

0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.399
<v Speaker 1>Google being a company that was handling a lot of

0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.439
<v Speaker 1>this information, a lot of these algorithms, and working with

0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 1>the military to develop them. Worries we're growing that it

0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 1>would not stop at data analysis, and this brings us

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.679
<v Speaker 1>to the petition that thousands of Google employees signed. The

0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.959
<v Speaker 1>Google petition opens with a pretty clear message. Quote, we

0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>believe that Google should not be in the business of war. Therefore,

0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.000
<v Speaker 1>we asked that project may even be canceled, and that

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.919
<v Speaker 1>Google draft publicize and enforce a clear policy saying that

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:32.359
<v Speaker 1>neither Google nor its contractors will ever build warfare technology.

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.640
<v Speaker 1>End quote. The petition also expressed skepticism about Project Maven's

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>stated purpose. In the third paragraph, it reads, quote, recently

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Googler's voice concerns about Maven internally, Diane Green responded, assuring

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.920
<v Speaker 1>them that the technology will not operate or fly drones

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.119
<v Speaker 1>and will not be used to launch weapons. While this

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.760
<v Speaker 1>eliminates a narrow set of direct applications, the technology is

0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.639
<v Speaker 1>being built for the military, and once it's delivered, it

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.840
<v Speaker 1>could easily be used to assist in these tasks end quote.

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 1>The petition states that beyond the ethical and moral implications

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.120
<v Speaker 1>of the project, that it will do damage to the company,

0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:16.439
<v Speaker 1>including hurting its ability to attract talent to work for Google, saying,

0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 1>if we have a reputation for giving the military technology

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 1>that helps them kill people, it's gonna be really hard

0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.440
<v Speaker 1>to convince new developers to come work for our company.

0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.440
<v Speaker 1>A Google spokesperson responded to the petition with a letter

0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.720
<v Speaker 1>It says, quote MAVEN is a well publicized Department of

0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 1>Defense project, and Google is working on one part of it,

0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.440
<v Speaker 1>specifically scope to be for non offensive purposes and using

0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 1>open source object recognition software available to any Google Cloud customer.

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.880
<v Speaker 1>The models are based on unclassified data only. The technology

0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.680
<v Speaker 1>is used to flag images for human review and is

0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 1>intended to save lives and save people from having to

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 1>do highly td is work. End quote. So the response

0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:08.359
<v Speaker 1>here saying this technology, these algorithms are already available and

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.760
<v Speaker 1>they're open source. Anyone could take that source code and

0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.240
<v Speaker 1>develop applications based upon it. So really, Google could take

0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 1>the contract and make some money off of it, or

0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.959
<v Speaker 1>not take the contract, but their work still ends up

0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:25.119
<v Speaker 1>being used for that purpose because it's open source and

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 1>anyone can use it. According to this spokesperson, the AI

0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.879
<v Speaker 1>and project may even is only assisting humans by pulling

0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 1>up that data that may be of interest while ignoring

0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.280
<v Speaker 1>everything else, so it's not making any decisions on its own.

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 1>But even Shanahan states in his blog post that there

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.720
<v Speaker 1>are ethical questions when it comes to incorporating AI that

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>must be addressed. He urges for the development of quote,

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 1>technological and organizational safeguards to ensure that Washington's military use

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:58.359
<v Speaker 1>of AI is consistent with national values end quote. He

0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>also points out that AI could be vulnerable to different

0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:04.200
<v Speaker 1>failure modes that could be disastrous, and that these two

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.040
<v Speaker 1>must be taken into consideration. So he's saying that we

0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:10.840
<v Speaker 1>have to implement it responsibly, and we have to be

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 1>aware of its failure points so that we can make

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.640
<v Speaker 1>sure that it's not vulnerable to them, because otherwise we're

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>going to rely far too heavily on a dangerous technology

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:25.840
<v Speaker 1>that could end up causing irreparable harm if misused. To

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.679
<v Speaker 1>further complicate matters, other groups have also urged Google to

0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.160
<v Speaker 1>step away from military projects. In April two thousand eighteen,

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 1>one year after May Even launched as a project, the

0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.439
<v Speaker 1>Tech Workers Coalition, which is a group representing employees of

0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:45.280
<v Speaker 1>major tech companies like Google, IBM, Microsoft, Amazon, and others,

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.919
<v Speaker 1>launched their own petition stating that tech should not be

0:22:49.000 --> 0:22:52.440
<v Speaker 1>in the business of war. This petition says that military

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.560
<v Speaker 1>contracts break user trust, in this case the user being

0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>either the general public or in the case of big

0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.320
<v Speaker 1>companies like ib UM, other companies, and the International Committee

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:08.959
<v Speaker 1>for Robot Arms Control meaning autonomous weapons not you know

0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 1>the arms of a robot issued an open letter to

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Google urging the company to stop pursuing military contracts. More

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:21.160
<v Speaker 1>than ninety academics signed this paper. The letter paints a

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.320
<v Speaker 1>very grim picture of a possible use for Maven, that

0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 1>of identifying targets based upon probabilities arrived at by analyzing

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.119
<v Speaker 1>long range surveillance footage, ultimately resulting in signature strikes and

0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>pattern of life strikes, meaning that Google would at least

0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:40.159
<v Speaker 1>be somewhat complicit in targeted killings. The letter goes on

0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.919
<v Speaker 1>to state that while the express purpose of Maven is

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:47.639
<v Speaker 1>purely for analysis, such tools could be turned toward automated

0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:50.480
<v Speaker 1>target recognition in the future. Those of you who are

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Terminator fans might think of this as another step toward

0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:57.320
<v Speaker 1>the mythical sky net system, which would ultimately turn against

0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:00.920
<v Speaker 1>humans and attempt to wipe us out. Sending Arnold Schwarzenegger

0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:04.960
<v Speaker 1>back in time. The letter ends with three requests, First

0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:08.119
<v Speaker 1>that Google terminate its project may even contract with the

0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:11.639
<v Speaker 1>Department of Defense. Second, that the company commit not to

0:24:11.720 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>develop military technologies nor to allow the personal data is

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:19.159
<v Speaker 1>collected to be used for military operations. And finally that

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:24.200
<v Speaker 1>it pledged to neither participate in nor support the development, manufacture, trade,

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:27.439
<v Speaker 1>or use of autonomous weapons, and to support efforts to

0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:33.040
<v Speaker 1>ban autonomous weapons. So far, Google hasn't shown any signs

0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:36.240
<v Speaker 1>of following those suggestions. In fact, it's been reported that

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:39.600
<v Speaker 1>the company is actively bidding on another Department of Defense

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:45.840
<v Speaker 1>project called the Joint Enterprise Defense Infrastructure or JEDI. This

0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.200
<v Speaker 1>project's goal is to create a suite of cloud services

0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.440
<v Speaker 1>for the Department of Defense. It's largely intended to reduce

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:56.359
<v Speaker 1>complexity in military data storage systems, which at the moment

0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:00.320
<v Speaker 1>are fragmented across multiple branches and departments. The at EYE

0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:03.640
<v Speaker 1>contract will go to a single vendor, which means one

0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 1>company stands to make a lot of money from the project.

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 1>That's hard to walk away from. I suppose that if

0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.720
<v Speaker 1>thousands of your employees are protesting the move, it might

0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:18.360
<v Speaker 1>warrant some soul searching. Now, current wisdom states that Amazon

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:21.280
<v Speaker 1>is probably in the lead for that Jedi contract. Anyway,

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:25.879
<v Speaker 1>it might behoove Google to consider listening to its employees

0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>in an effort not to alienate its workforce and to

0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:33.159
<v Speaker 1>potentially damage the company's reputation to the point where no

0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:35.000
<v Speaker 1>one will come and work for it, or very few

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>and not necessarily the best and brightest. I'm very conflicted

0:25:38.560 --> 0:25:42.240
<v Speaker 1>about this. On the one hand, using artificial intelligence to

0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:46.760
<v Speaker 1>augment people's abilities to do what they've already started doing.

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Is it makes sense to me using it to help

0:25:50.000 --> 0:25:54.120
<v Speaker 1>people cut down on endless hours of work? I get that.

0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:57.280
<v Speaker 1>On the other hand, if you do think about this

0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:00.840
<v Speaker 1>as being a stepping stone towards using AI to actually

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 1>target and potentially kill people, that is terrifying. It is

0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:08.960
<v Speaker 1>terrifying to think of the amount of power that gives

0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:15.800
<v Speaker 1>people the uh the removal of barriers to commit such actions,

0:26:15.880 --> 0:26:18.879
<v Speaker 1>because if you think about military actions, you have to

0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 1>think if you are in command of the possibility of

0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:25.159
<v Speaker 1>the loss of human life on your side, right, you

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:27.520
<v Speaker 1>have to consider that you have to say how many

0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 1>how many people are we going to lose if we

0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.119
<v Speaker 1>commit to this action and is our commitment to that

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:35.879
<v Speaker 1>action justifiable based on how many people we think we're

0:26:35.880 --> 0:26:40.560
<v Speaker 1>gonna lose. Well, if you start using automated systems, then

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.960
<v Speaker 1>that number creeps down closer to zero for your side. Right,

0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 1>If you're using automated systems to carry out your attacks,

0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 1>then you have fewer casualties on your side, and that

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.840
<v Speaker 1>might mean that you're more willing to enter into those

0:26:55.880 --> 0:27:00.959
<v Speaker 1>situations and thus more people do die. It's just there

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.200
<v Speaker 1>are people on the other side. So you might, as

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 1>a military personnel, considered that a good thing, but for

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 1>others like myself, you might consider it pretty horrifying. So

0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.240
<v Speaker 1>I totally understand why there are Google employees walking out

0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:19.720
<v Speaker 1>of the company resigning they are unable to resolve their

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>philosophical beliefs with the moves that the company has made

0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:26.160
<v Speaker 1>in the last year. Uh. I also understand the need

0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:29.960
<v Speaker 1>to incorporate AI into military operations. So this is a

0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:34.159
<v Speaker 1>very complicated topic. It's not something that's so easy to

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>say this is wrong and we shouldn't do it. Because

0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I also agree with Shanahan who says other organizations out there, countries,

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:47.920
<v Speaker 1>militaries and others are already working on this, and so

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:51.000
<v Speaker 1>we need to do it too, just so that we

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.399
<v Speaker 1>don't end up falling behind. There cannot be an AI gap,

0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.199
<v Speaker 1>so it becomes another arms race, which a lot of

0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>people have likened a I two in the past. Anyway,

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>I wraps up this discussion about Project Maven. If you

0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.480
<v Speaker 1>guys have any suggestions for future topics I can tackle

0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:08.080
<v Speaker 1>here on tech Stuff, please send them to me. My

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:11.360
<v Speaker 1>email address is tech stuff at our stuff works dot com,

0:28:11.440 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 1>or you can draw me a line on Twitter or Facebook.

0:28:13.600 --> 0:28:16.120
<v Speaker 1>To handle with both of those is text stuff h

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.399
<v Speaker 1>s W. Remember we have an Instagram account. You can

0:28:19.400 --> 0:28:22.919
<v Speaker 1>follow us there, and you can watch me record live

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:25.840
<v Speaker 1>on twitch dot tv slash tech Stuff. Come on over

0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:27.679
<v Speaker 1>there on a Wednesday or Friday. You're gonna see me

0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:30.520
<v Speaker 1>record these shows live, and you'll see as I slowly

0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:33.800
<v Speaker 1>lose my sanity as more and more people walk in

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<v Speaker 1>and out of the door that's directly adjacent to this

0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 1>recording studio, necessitating that I re record the thing I

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<v Speaker 1>just said a second earlier. If you want to see

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan go insane, go to twitch dot tv slash tech

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.280
<v Speaker 1>Stuff on a Wednesday or Friday, and you too can

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<v Speaker 1>be part of the fun. I hope to see there,

0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:59.560
<v Speaker 1>and I'll talk to you again really soon. For more

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 1>on this and thousands of other topics, is a How

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff Works dot com