Speaker 1: We're supposed to work like we don't have children and
Speaker 1: parent like we don't have a job, and that can
Speaker 1: really weigh on you. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,
Speaker 1: the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to
Speaker 1: each and every single one of you that come back
Speaker 1: every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, I'm really
Speaker 1: lucky in life to have a great group of friends.
Speaker 1: And these friends are just not doing everyday things. They're
Speaker 1: doing incredible things and helping other people do that as well. Now,
Speaker 1: one of these friends is a guest I have on
Speaker 1: the show today. She has a new book out that
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to hear about, and she
Speaker 1: is something exciting as well for you to discover when
Speaker 1: you pre order the book, So I want you to
Speaker 1: hang around for that as well. I'm excited. And remember
Speaker 1: I always talk about how pre orders really help authors.
Speaker 1: Orders really help authors, and as an author myself, I
Speaker 1: know how much hours and time and energy goes into
Speaker 1: writing a books. When one of my friends puts in
Speaker 1: that energy, puts in that effort, I love to support
Speaker 1: them with all my heart and all my joy, and
Speaker 1: I love that our community does the same. But today's
Speaker 1: guest is none other than Jenna Kutcher born and raised
Speaker 1: in Minnesota, wife, mother, and entrepreneur who aims for two
Speaker 1: things daily, helping others wake up to life and staying
Speaker 1: in comfy pants. Creator and host of the top rated
Speaker 1: gold Digger podcast, She's helped thousands redefine success and chase
Speaker 1: bold dreams through her decade long work as a leading
Speaker 1: online personality and educator. Welcome to the show, Jenna Kutcher,
Speaker 1: and today we're talking about her new book, How are
Speaker 1: you really? Jenna? Thank you for being here. Oh my gosh, Jay,
Speaker 1: this genuinely feels like such a dream come true. I'm
Speaker 1: getting so many brownie points in my mom's world for
Speaker 1: being with you today. But thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: This is such a dream. Well, no, we became friends,
Speaker 1: I think now it's like three years ago. I think
Speaker 1: when we're in Portant we go together, want to me
Speaker 1: with your beautiful family as well, and then we hung
Speaker 1: out in Napa more recently, and I know you and
Speaker 1: rather you have been connecting and collaborating and so I
Speaker 1: was so happy to do this with you. Honestly, it's
Speaker 1: it's my greatest joy to you know, just see friends
Speaker 1: do incredible things and support them, and I think that
Speaker 1: all of us are really looking for that. I was
Speaker 1: saying to my team today that I really love doing
Speaker 1: what I do, but what I'm excited about is having
Speaker 1: history with people. So I love the idea. One of
Speaker 1: my greatest values is when I'm fifty and then when
Speaker 1: I'm seventy five, It's like, I want to look back
Speaker 1: and I want someone to look back with. And that's
Speaker 1: why I think friendships are so important to me too,
Speaker 1: because when you can look back at twenty thirty, forty
Speaker 1: fifty years with the same people and say, look what
Speaker 1: we did, that's what we did, and that's what we
Speaker 1: did together. You know, I really appreciate that. So thank
Speaker 1: you for giving me this opportunity. But the title of
Speaker 1: your book is how are you really? And I love
Speaker 1: that you, you know, very much emphasize the importance of
Speaker 1: that question and the depth of that question, because I
Speaker 1: think today we ask how are you? All the time?
Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you to start off with
Speaker 1: then I'll answer the question too, to be honest and vulnerable,
Speaker 1: how are you really today in this moment, and then
Speaker 1: I'll have a go and telling you how I am
Speaker 1: really too. I can't wait you know, I didn't make
Speaker 1: a mistake, but when I named the book that I
Speaker 1: should have known that every time I talked to someone
Speaker 1: now they ask and I'm being called into honesty, which
Speaker 1: I think is so beautiful. And there is such a
Speaker 1: big differentiator between like how are you and it's like good, fine, busy,
Speaker 1: but like when you feel safe, especially when you're with
Speaker 1: someone that you love and you know, and they like
Speaker 1: lean in and they're like, but how are you really,
Speaker 1: You're like okay. And I've been describing this season of
Speaker 1: my life. So I have two little ones, very little.
Speaker 1: One is three, one is a few months old. And
Speaker 1: I said, this season of life, I feel stretched, and
Speaker 1: I feel stretched in a beautiful way because I have
Speaker 1: so much love for being a mom. But I also
Speaker 1: have never loved my work more and it just sometimes
Speaker 1: feels like a lot of love to carry and it's
Speaker 1: like the fullness of it is never lost on me.
Speaker 1: And so we're in this season of like total sleep deprivation.
Speaker 1: At home. My toddler recently started sleeping in a big
Speaker 1: girl bed. There are probably five times a night where
Speaker 1: there is a little one at my feet saying mommy, mommy,
Speaker 1: and I'm in this season where it's like this energy
Speaker 1: can only come from something other than myself, because I
Speaker 1: feel so electrically energized and excited about the work I'm doing,
Speaker 1: but also like the life I'm living offline. So to
Speaker 1: answer your question, it all feels heavy and full, but
Speaker 1: in the best way possible. Now, how are you really? Yeah? No,
Speaker 1: thank you for that very full and you know, textured answer.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things I loved about what
Speaker 1: you said, and it's inspired my response as well, is
Speaker 1: you were saying that you're in a particular season, and
Speaker 1: I think that that is such a healthy way of
Speaker 1: thinking how you are. And I think often we do
Speaker 1: one of two things. We look at things too minutely,
Speaker 1: where it's like this is how I am right now,
Speaker 1: and that can feel like a lot of pressure because
Speaker 1: I could feel totally different within thirty seconds of drinking
Speaker 1: some water or going on a walk or looking outside
Speaker 1: the window. Or we sometimes say well, this is how
Speaker 1: the year's going, and that's sometimes scary as well, because
Speaker 1: it feels like we can't control anything until December thirty first,
Speaker 1: and we have to wait till jan first again. So
Speaker 1: I love that you use the word season, and I
Speaker 1: would say that I'm in the season right now, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm constantly in this season. I'm in
Speaker 1: a season of like lots of growth, lots of being
Speaker 1: outside of my comfort zone. And I'm in a season
Speaker 1: also of I'm actually finishing writing my second book right now,
Speaker 1: so I'm in the process of completing a creative journey
Speaker 1: that takes everything out of me, and I'm about to
Speaker 1: open up to a new world of creativity because I'm
Speaker 1: now going to have that time and energy back to
Speaker 1: translate it in another direction. So I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: at this transition, and I find that transitions are always
Speaker 1: tiring and exhausting because you're about to complete, let go
Speaker 1: and sign off on something, and then you're thinking about
Speaker 1: what to do next, and that's always like that little
Speaker 1: moment of discomfort and unease that comes with that transition.
Speaker 1: So that's how I am really Oh my gosh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's interesting. There's so much that goes into writing a
Speaker 1: book that I think is surprising, and until you do
Speaker 1: the journey, you don't recognize that. And one thing that
Speaker 1: I think is fascinating that our friend Brendan Burchard actually
Speaker 1: told me that I thought was so beautiful is that
Speaker 1: when you're writing a book, it really does feel like
Speaker 1: your life's work, right, Like you pour your heart and
Speaker 1: your soul and your everything into it. He said something
Speaker 1: to me, and he said, you know, Jennet, this is
Speaker 1: not your life's work. This is an important piece of
Speaker 1: work in your life. And I thought, oh, that is
Speaker 1: so beautiful because it's so tempting to dive head first
Speaker 1: in and like kind of crawl out of the hole
Speaker 1: when you finally get there. So I thought that was
Speaker 1: such a good reminder for all of us who are
Speaker 1: working on projects or relationships or careers or whatever that
Speaker 1: might be, or your health of like, this isn't your
Speaker 1: life's work. It's just an important piece of work in
Speaker 1: your life. Yeah. Wow, that's such a refreshing perspective. And
Speaker 1: I love that little shift in mindset that changes it completely.
Speaker 1: But let's dive in. You know, both of us gave
Speaker 1: very I think honestances and vulnerablelnces, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think that it's probably taken us some time to get
Speaker 1: to be able to do that. And you talk about
Speaker 1: this in your book, the idea that some of us
Speaker 1: actually afraid to answer that question and acknowledge the problems
Speaker 1: and the challenges and the discomfort that comes with that question.
Speaker 1: So we often find it easier to say I'm fine,
Speaker 1: it's okay, you know, the usual, the same old, But
Speaker 1: you're actually saying that it's healthy to try and acknowledge,
Speaker 1: accept and go there. Why is it critical, necessary and
Speaker 1: integral for us to try and face the real answer
Speaker 1: to that question? Why is that so important? When I
Speaker 1: think about the question how are you? Really? A lot
Speaker 1: of times people think about it in context of conversation
Speaker 1: with someone else, but really, when I think about it,
Speaker 1: it's about coming home to yourself. And we live in
Speaker 1: this culture where it's like we're constantly distracted. It's really
Speaker 1: easy for me as a mom to see it with children,
Speaker 1: where you're like, children don't know how to be bored anymore.
Speaker 1: They don't know how to be creative anymore. They're so
Speaker 1: used to being like pacified with screens. Are different things,
Speaker 1: And when I look at it through the lens of children,
Speaker 1: I suddenly see, oh wait, adults are like ten times worse.
Speaker 1: We are the kind of people who bring our phones
Speaker 1: to the restroom with us, Like we skip shavasana at
Speaker 1: the end of a yoga session because we don't believe
Speaker 1: we deserve the rest, Like there are so many ways
Speaker 1: that we avoid getting quiet with ourselves, and it's really
Speaker 1: easy to do because we are busier than ever, right,
Speaker 1: Like busy is the badge of honor. If you're busy,
Speaker 1: you must be doing well. And what I think is
Speaker 1: really fascinating about that is that we start to tune
Speaker 1: out like the whispers of like our own soul, like
Speaker 1: the divine pieces of ourselves that are guiding us, so
Speaker 1: that we listen to the noise of the world and
Speaker 1: it gets really uncomfortable and it gets really hard to discern,
Speaker 1: like what is my intuition, What is my soul telling me?
Speaker 1: What is the world telling me? And how do these
Speaker 1: two coexist? And I think that in truth, you know,
Speaker 1: with the culture that we're in, they have to coexist.
Speaker 1: But there's a difference between being the passenger on a
Speaker 1: journey and being in the driver's seat. And a lot
Speaker 1: of times the noise of the world is the driver's
Speaker 1: seat for us, and our intuition might be that garment
Speaker 1: that hasn't been updated since twenty ten that's telling us
Speaker 1: like redirect, redirect, redirect, And I feel like whenever I
Speaker 1: talk to people and they're going through a massive life change,
Speaker 1: whether it's a breakup or a career change or a
Speaker 1: health change. You asked them like did you have that
Speaker 1: inner knowing? Like did you have that ping? And a
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll say, yeah, I knew something was off,
Speaker 1: or I knew I needed a change, or I knew
Speaker 1: I was out of alignment, but I didn't listen. And
Speaker 1: so this idea of like how are you really isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily just about in conversation. It's about how am I really?
Speaker 1: Am I faking that I'm enjoying my life? Am I
Speaker 1: putting on a public persona for the world online but
Speaker 1: offline I'm miserable? Am I really yearning for something different?
Speaker 1: And so it's really this invitation to get quiet with
Speaker 1: yourself and to learn how to invite in that margin
Speaker 1: in that time. And Jay, you are one of the
Speaker 1: best at helping people get to that place. I mean,
Speaker 1: your meditations have been this constant in my life because
Speaker 1: it's this invitation of getting quiet. And I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, but for a long time I've always just
Speaker 1: told myself, like, I can't meditate, my brain is too busy.
Speaker 1: I operated at a higher level all these things, but
Speaker 1: I had to train myself in how to do that,
Speaker 1: just as I had to train myself to run a
Speaker 1: race or to work as hard as I do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love I love what you spoke about there and
Speaker 1: how it's beyond the conversation but the idea of listening
Speaker 1: to our real selves and listening to that voice. And
Speaker 1: you're so right. I loved what you said about how
Speaker 1: we are constantly feeling or we say things like oh
Speaker 1: I wasn't aligned or I wasn't listening then, so that
Speaker 1: means we know it's there, but we keep trying to
Speaker 1: put it off, and it's almost like it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a very crude example, but it's just reality.
Speaker 1: I was having a bit of pain physically recently and
Speaker 1: it was recurring, like it just kept coming up and
Speaker 1: more often. And then my trainer, physical trainer, he said
Speaker 1: to me, he said, have you had this before we
Speaker 1: were working out or have you just had it now?
Speaker 1: And that got me to think about it. And then
Speaker 1: I started to think about it and I couldn't remember when.
Speaker 1: And then this weekend I went to a trampoline park
Speaker 1: with one of my closest friends and their kids like
Speaker 1: their sons, like two years old, and so we went
Speaker 1: to a trampoline park messing around with him on the
Speaker 1: trampoline park. Obviously, I got two carried away. I felt
Speaker 1: like I stread something came back again. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, it's definitely triggered through physical activity. Realized that
Speaker 1: two years ago I felt the same thing while playing basketball,
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, I've been feeling something physically
Speaker 1: for two years, but I waited for it to get
Speaker 1: really bad and happen more often, to listen to it,
Speaker 1: pat to pay attention. And that's something physical. What about
Speaker 1: something emotional and mental and relational and people based? And
Speaker 1: so I love what you said about the idea of
Speaker 1: listening and silence and stillness being the best place you
Speaker 1: can listen. How have you learned? And I'm intrigued by this,
Speaker 1: how have you learned? As someone who is busy, who
Speaker 1: is a mother, who is an entrepreneur, who who is
Speaker 1: a wife? You play so many roles, you know, you're
Speaker 1: writing a book on top of all of that. How
Speaker 1: have you found what is stillness to you? And I'm
Speaker 1: asking that to you as who you are, because I
Speaker 1: think when people talk to me, they know I meditate,
Speaker 1: they know I have these practices. I was lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be among for three years where I learned so
Speaker 1: many practices. But as someone who's in the real world
Speaker 1: in challenging situations constantly, what does stillness mean for you?
Speaker 1: And what does it look like for you? Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: this chapter in the book called My Soul Shavasana. Because
Speaker 1: I used to go to yoga and I did it
Speaker 1: for the workout. I like missed the whole point right,
Speaker 1: like it's called a practice, not an art, like we're
Speaker 1: supposed to be practicing it. And as an achiever and
Speaker 1: someone who loves to achieve, I always was the person
Speaker 1: in the class like comparing myself like did I get
Speaker 1: that bind? Can I do the headstand? And at the
Speaker 1: end of the class, it pained me to lay on
Speaker 1: the mat, like I told myself, like you didn't deserve this,
Speaker 1: you didn't sweat hard enough. You know all of these things.
Speaker 1: And when I look at my life, it's so easy
Speaker 1: to delay rest. It's like we keep pushing the finish
Speaker 1: line further and further. I'll rest when, I'll rest, then
Speaker 1: I'll celebrate when and we like keep pushing these lines
Speaker 1: out so that we never arrive. And what I think
Speaker 1: is fascinating is that I've honestly had to learn how
Speaker 1: to rest. I've literally had to look at it kind
Speaker 1: of like a couch to five k but in reverse,
Speaker 1: like I'm running the five k daily. How do I
Speaker 1: get myself back on the couch without feeling guilty, without
Speaker 1: feeling like I'm lazy or complacent or any of those things.
Speaker 1: Because I really think our culture has confused contentness with complacency,
Speaker 1: and if we're content, we believe that we should be
Speaker 1: achieving more, we're not using our full potential. But I
Speaker 1: think being content is the most beautiful gift you can
Speaker 1: give yourself. It means that you're like fully in the moment,
Speaker 1: You're fully filled with gratitude, you're fully present, You're in
Speaker 1: life as it's happening. And so for me getting quiet
Speaker 1: with myself, there's this part at the end of the
Speaker 1: book where I joke because I'm like, I love listening
Speaker 1: to like incredible personal development people who are like, you know,
Speaker 1: you wake up and you do your morning pages, and
Speaker 1: you do your meditation and you do all these things,
Speaker 1: because I think that's beautiful. But in this stage of life,
Speaker 1: I am clinging to every second of sleep I can
Speaker 1: possibly get because I'm up in the middle of the night,
Speaker 1: and so I'm like, oh my god, I would love
Speaker 1: those things. But rest comes in these tiny, infinite, small
Speaker 1: moments for me. And one of the things that I've
Speaker 1: had to do is that I often feel pulled in
Speaker 1: many directions. So there's this line out there for working mothers,
Speaker 1: because I believe all mothers are working, but specifically women
Speaker 1: with careers who are also mothers, and it's like we're
Speaker 1: supposed to work, like we don't have children and parent,
Speaker 1: like we don't have a job, and that can really
Speaker 1: weigh on you, like it can really pull you. And
Speaker 1: so I've had to adopt this practice of when I
Speaker 1: crossed the threshold into a room, whether it's an office,
Speaker 1: my bedroom, the house, the living room, my daughter's room,
Speaker 1: like whatever that is, I have to really like plant
Speaker 1: my feet and like actually cross through with intention to
Speaker 1: just be here now. Because my brain could be thinking
Speaker 1: about an email while I'm reading Doctor SEUs, and I
Speaker 1: could be writing an email and thinking about nap time
Speaker 1: or nursing or whatever it is. And so I've really
Speaker 1: had to just invite stillness in really small segments in
Speaker 1: my life and prioritize that in a meaningful way. But
Speaker 1: I really yearn for and look forward to those days
Speaker 1: where I can have more of that. And I think
Speaker 1: that again, we look at seasons and if I've learned
Speaker 1: anything specifically about motherhood, it's all temporary, it's all fleeting,
Speaker 1: it all goes by so fast, and so just kind
Speaker 1: of being where you are but knowing where you want
Speaker 1: to go. That's kind of where I'm sitting today. Oh
Speaker 1: that's beautiful. Yeah, I don't agree more too. I wonder
Speaker 1: as you were saying that, and I'm literally just sitting
Speaker 1: with you and thinking with you and hearing you out,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, how have you made sense, Jena, of
Speaker 1: your identity of who you are? Because I you know,
Speaker 1: the book really does dive into like who you are,
Speaker 1: and I find like we've we adopt so many titles.
Speaker 1: I often say to my team, I'm like, I find
Speaker 1: it really hard to choose a title for who I
Speaker 1: am and what I do. I really don't enjoy it.
Speaker 1: And so whenever they ask like, oh, Jay, what do
Speaker 1: you want us to put from your bio onto this thing,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't like that at you know human
Speaker 1: being being human? Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly. When someone asked me, like,
Speaker 1: who are you and what do you do? My answer
Speaker 1: to that is I am someone who's trying to help
Speaker 1: people discover their purpose and live up to their potential,
Speaker 1: whatever that may be. Like, that's who I am. I'm
Speaker 1: not an author or a podcast or a coach or
Speaker 1: which is all the things I have to say I
Speaker 1: am to make sense. And then I think about that,
Speaker 1: how many things do we say about ourselves so that
Speaker 1: it makes sense to other people, but may stop making
Speaker 1: sense or feeling sense like to ourselves. So, how have
Speaker 1: you made sense of your identity? As more titles, more expectations,
Speaker 1: more achievements and things come in the mix, more responsibilities,
Speaker 1: how do you see yourself? I'm intrigued by that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love this because I really struggled. So there's this
Speaker 1: idea of identity foreclosure. I learned about it on my podcast.
Speaker 1: There was an amazing woman, doctor Maya Shanker, who came
Speaker 1: on and yeah, y, she's amazing, and she was talking
Speaker 1: about it and she said something that has just stuck
Speaker 1: with me, and she's like, it's the same reason why
Speaker 1: we hang on to jeans that don't fit, and we
Speaker 1: complete degrees when we know we don't want to even
Speaker 1: finish them. In work in that area, it's this idea
Speaker 1: of like, well, I've already come so far, and why
Speaker 1: would I make that a waste of time? Or why
Speaker 1: would I change? And I have really had to learn
Speaker 1: how to welcome change into my life because I feel
Speaker 1: like I am constantly on the precipice of like who
Speaker 1: I am becoming? And for me, my career path has
Speaker 1: been all over the place. So I worked in corporate America,
Speaker 1: had a fancy five word title, then decided to pick
Speaker 1: up a camera. My camera became my vehicle out of
Speaker 1: that job. And Jay, just like you were saying, like
Speaker 1: author podcast, all these things, those are just the vehicles
Speaker 1: to get your mission out into the world, right Like
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily who you are, They're just the methods
Speaker 1: to get the message. And so it's been super interesting
Speaker 1: to me because I feel like I'm constantly changing and evolving,
Speaker 1: and to me, the mission matters so much more than
Speaker 1: the method. And so for me, like being a mom
Speaker 1: is like my number one thing. It's like my identity marker.
Speaker 1: And I think some of it too is because I
Speaker 1: yearned for it for so long. We went through a
Speaker 1: lot of obstacles in starting that, and so I always said, like,
Speaker 1: if I'm ever fortunate enough to have that title, I
Speaker 1: will never take that title for granted because I watch
Speaker 1: other people get that and it pained me to see, like,
Speaker 1: you don't know the miracle that this is. But I agree.
Speaker 1: I think that we are visionaries and the way that
Speaker 1: we do our work is like the missionaries of the mission,
Speaker 1: and so it's like the methods of that, and so
Speaker 1: I always try And I'm from the Midwest, so a
Speaker 1: lot of people aren't super familiar with the world we're in,
Speaker 1: and so try describing a podcast you're ninety three year
Speaker 1: old grandfather. I'm like, Grandpa, it's kind of like a
Speaker 1: sermon where I talk about business, and it's like a
Speaker 1: radio show, but you can listen to it anytime. And
Speaker 1: so it's like, none of that matters more than the
Speaker 1: mission and who we are. And I think who we
Speaker 1: are offline is more important than who we are online. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more. I think I always
Speaker 1: I was saying to a friend yesterday the other day
Speaker 1: that I feel like the stuff that I get to
Speaker 1: do in my private life is even more fun than
Speaker 1: the stuff I get to do in my public life,
Speaker 1: and most people are unaware of the private life, and
Speaker 1: and I get joy out of it. And I think
Speaker 1: there's something about that that I think it's important to protect.
Speaker 1: What I find fascinating about what you do, though, especially
Speaker 1: with this book, is like you're really try getting people
Speaker 1: to bust the myths that our generation kind of adopted,
Speaker 1: like hustling harder, having to have this, have that wake
Speaker 1: up at this certain time and tell me about the
Speaker 1: times when you did hustle hard. And because what I
Speaker 1: find different about when you say that is you're not
Speaker 1: someone who didn't know how to hustle hard. You're someone
Speaker 1: who definitely knows how to hustle hard and was successful
Speaker 1: hustling hard, but then realized its shortcomings, which is why
Speaker 1: I appreciate it from your perspective. So, when you're in
Speaker 1: that corporate job in America and you're hustling hard, can
Speaker 1: you walk us through about why the romanticization and about
Speaker 1: hustling hod kind of you know, didn't work for you.
Speaker 1: So I want to preface this because I think this
Speaker 1: is an important point and I think your audience will
Speaker 1: really resonate with this. But I feel like we live
Speaker 1: in such a polarizing time in so many different ways.
Speaker 1: But part of that polarization is that we feel like
Speaker 1: there's two camps, especially for achievers. There is the hustle
Speaker 1: culture camp, and then there's the manifestation camp. The Manifestation
Speaker 1: Camp and the hustle camp. They believe that only one
Speaker 1: of these can exist. And so what's interesting about me
Speaker 1: and my book and my ideology is it's kind of
Speaker 1: like where the woo meets the work, like where the
Speaker 1: vision meets the action, and it's in a sustainable way
Speaker 1: that keeps you in your life. And so I tell
Speaker 1: the story about how I was in my corporate job
Speaker 1: and I sat down with my boss and she gives
Speaker 1: me my five year plan, like, gives it to me,
Speaker 1: doesn't ask me about it, doesn't ask me like what
Speaker 1: do you want? What do you see for yourself? Like
Speaker 1: what's next for you? And it was this wake up
Speaker 1: call of like I am literally climbing a ladder that
Speaker 1: someone else is putting in front of me without ever
Speaker 1: checking me in Is this what I want? Is this
Speaker 1: what I envisioned for my life? Do I want the
Speaker 1: promotion if it means more responsibility. And I've had these
Speaker 1: different seasons in my life, and I think that everyone
Speaker 1: hits them where there we look at our time and money,
Speaker 1: but we don't look at our energy. And I think
Speaker 1: energy is everything. And so there are seasons of my
Speaker 1: life where I traded my time in order to make money.
Speaker 1: And then there are seasons of my life where I
Speaker 1: have been able to take money and get back time
Speaker 1: right things like Instacart or uber or whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times we forget about like our energy.
Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but like I've arrived
Speaker 1: at certain places and I've gotten to these goals or
Speaker 1: these big milestones, and I land there and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I thought this would feel different, Like it looks great,
Speaker 1: but I thought it would feel different. Maybe I'm not
Speaker 1: going hard enough, Maybe I need to do more. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's the next thing that'll feel good. And I've recognized
Speaker 1: that that's not the case. Like I want to live
Speaker 1: a life that feels better than it looks. And so
Speaker 1: I have had these seasons of hustle that have led
Speaker 1: to burnout. But after the burnout, for me, I always
Speaker 1: have this breakthrough and the breakthrough is usually that somewhere
Speaker 1: in the course of the pursuit, I got off the path,
Speaker 1: and now I've got to redirect or figure out a
Speaker 1: new map, or reassess the direction I'm heading. And I've
Speaker 1: pivoted so many times in my career, and thankfully I've
Speaker 1: pivoted successfully. But I've gone from being a photographer to
Speaker 1: a watercolor artist, to a speaker, to a podcast or
Speaker 1: to a course creator, all of these different things. And
Speaker 1: I believe that people have followed me because of my energy,
Speaker 1: not because of the time or the money, but like
Speaker 1: they can feel the heart and they can sense the alignment.
Speaker 1: And so I feel like there's this really call to
Speaker 1: people to pay attention to how are you energetically feeling?
Speaker 1: Like I haven't slept a full night in three weeks,
Speaker 1: but I am so energized and excited because I've never
Speaker 1: been in alignment better in my work life, like I've
Speaker 1: never felt more in alignment. And so it's this interesting
Speaker 1: thing where we focus so much on time and money,
Speaker 1: and that a lot of times attributes to the burnout,
Speaker 1: attributes to the hustle. But if we check in with
Speaker 1: ourselves and see where our energy is, I think that
Speaker 1: can be the compass that then guides us forward. What
Speaker 1: are some of the things that you've found that you
Speaker 1: feel drain your or our energy, and what are some
Speaker 1: of the things that give and drive your energy? Because
Speaker 1: as soon as you talked about the ratio of time, money,
Speaker 1: and energy, I was completely with you. I think those
Speaker 1: money and time are always like the levels that we're
Speaker 1: trying to play with, and the real thing that we're
Speaker 1: missing out on is energy. So I'm completely with you.
Speaker 1: But yeah, what are the things that drain and drive
Speaker 1: your energy? Or you think generally, maybe more scalably, drain
Speaker 1: and drive all of our energy. Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: if you pull up your calendar and you hate what
Speaker 1: you see coming up, that's a good sign that you're
Speaker 1: out of alignment. Have you ever looked at your calendar
Speaker 1: and you're like, who booked this? And then you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: that was me, Like I said yes to all of
Speaker 1: these things. And I have been in seasons like that
Speaker 1: and really recognize like I am not looking forward to life,
Speaker 1: like I am dreading these agreements, or I'm overextended, or
Speaker 1: I'm stretched too thin, and I feel it, and a
Speaker 1: lot of times it's us saying yes and not having boundaries.
Speaker 1: And so for me, I'm actually quite introverted. A lot
Speaker 1: of our friends surprisingly are. We're the people that can
Speaker 1: stand on a stage and talk to thousands of people,
Speaker 1: but if we get into a room with strangers, were
Speaker 1: like the ones like awkwardly standing in the corner and
Speaker 1: so really paying attention to like what sort of boundaries
Speaker 1: do I need to have in place that protect my
Speaker 1: energy but allow me to do work that's meaningful. And
Speaker 1: so when the pandemic hit and life shifted, I was like,
Speaker 1: I have been training my entire life for this. I
Speaker 1: started my business in a town of twelve hundred. I
Speaker 1: live in smalltown Minnesota. I've been trying to convince people
Speaker 1: that so much can be done digitally over the years,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, I can
Speaker 1: open my laptop, do my work, close it, and get
Speaker 1: back to life. And so I think it takes a
Speaker 1: really great deal of self awareness. Because my husband Drew,
Speaker 1: you know, he's an extrovert. He could talk to anyone.
Speaker 1: It is his greatest dream to go to the gym
Speaker 1: and talk to Bob while they're walking around the path,
Speaker 1: like and figure out his life story. And to me,
Speaker 1: that kills me, like small talk kills me. And so
Speaker 1: it's like, what is this self awareness on what drains
Speaker 1: you and what drives you? And how do you try
Speaker 1: to pursue this blend of it? Because I think we're
Speaker 1: over this idea of balance, Like if you look at
Speaker 1: the definition of balance, it's maintaining a perfect balance of something,
Speaker 1: and like balance is a moment. It's not like something
Speaker 1: that you can master. And so for me, it's like,
Speaker 1: what does this blend look like If I say my
Speaker 1: values are being a mom, but I'm committing to a
Speaker 1: work trip that takes me away for two weeks. Am
Speaker 1: I in alignment with what I say is important to me?
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people right now if
Speaker 1: they looked at their calendar and they said, you know,
Speaker 1: my values are my health, or my family, or my
Speaker 1: relationships or this important work that I'm doing, but they
Speaker 1: looked at their calendar, they would see that they might
Speaker 1: have gotten off course. And it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 1: It's just an invitation to course correct. So in that example,
Speaker 1: which I think was such a great one, are you
Speaker 1: saying that we have to be more selective overall priorities
Speaker 1: in a particular season, absolutely if you are able to.
Speaker 1: And honestly, Jay and I think it's important to note,
Speaker 1: like it's a privilege to be able to say yes
Speaker 1: and no to opportunities. Right, some people don't have that
Speaker 1: invitation to just say, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: agree to that if that's something that's going to pay
Speaker 1: the bills. But at the same point in time. One
Speaker 1: thing that I've been doing a lot lately is if
Speaker 1: I get an invitation when I'm in person with someone,
Speaker 1: because i just love people's energy, and I'm so prone
Speaker 1: to say yes. I'm like the kind Midwest girl. I've
Speaker 1: been saying, let me check my calendar and get back
Speaker 1: to you on that, because a lot of times when
Speaker 1: I over commit on things energetically, in the moment, it
Speaker 1: feels right, but then when I look at it a
Speaker 1: week from now, a month from now, I'm like, ah, shoot,
Speaker 1: like I shouldn't have committed to this. So there are
Speaker 1: boundaries that I think can be really important that can
Speaker 1: buy yourself the time to really assessed is this the
Speaker 1: right opportunity, is it shiny? Is it going to guide
Speaker 1: me forward? Is it going to serve others? Is this
Speaker 1: a clear yes or no, And I always think it's
Speaker 1: either like a hell yes or a heck no, And
Speaker 1: you've got to pick more of the hell yeses in
Speaker 1: your life. How have you learned to say no recently
Speaker 1: to people who you deeply love and people you know
Speaker 1: care for you? And then you still want to say
Speaker 1: no for your values? Like have you have you had
Speaker 1: to do that recently? Like how have you? I'm so
Speaker 1: good at how have you? Yeah, Okay, tell us walk
Speaker 1: us through that a little bit, because I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to do it. The other day. I had
Speaker 1: someone reach out and they're like, yeah, I need you
Speaker 1: to do this thing, and I send them my response,
Speaker 1: but I want to hear yours and then and then
Speaker 1: all that to it. But yeah, tell tell me how
Speaker 1: you deal with that. I'm intrigued. So boundaries are something
Speaker 1: that I think people are afraid of because when you
Speaker 1: think about boundaries, you think about like keeping something or
Speaker 1: someone out right, like you almost picture up like a
Speaker 1: fence around and that feels scary. But I have found
Speaker 1: that boundaries keep us in our life, like the life
Speaker 1: that we're meant be leaving. And when we have good boundaries,
Speaker 1: it really invites us to be awake to the life
Speaker 1: that we say we want. So, for example, when I
Speaker 1: was pregnant with my first daughter, Coco, I blacked out
Speaker 1: the entire year following her birth. I had not a
Speaker 1: single commitment on my calendar for an entire year. Now
Speaker 1: was that scary? Absolutely? Did I fear that I would
Speaker 1: lose momentum? Yes? Did I wonder would I become irrelevant
Speaker 1: in that year? Of course? But I said that being
Speaker 1: a mother was the greatest gift, the biggest miracle that
Speaker 1: I could ever invite into my life. And you better
Speaker 1: believe I was going to live that way. And I
Speaker 1: just didn't know what to expect. I didn't know if
Speaker 1: I would thrive, if I would be flailing like I
Speaker 1: didn't know, And I wanted to give myself space in
Speaker 1: time to adjust to that new life and that new
Speaker 1: version of who I was. And so I put up
Speaker 1: bumpers like I think about bowling and I think about boundaries.
Speaker 1: Is like bumpers that keep us in the lane, that
Speaker 1: keep us aligned and from falling in the gutter. And
Speaker 1: so I told my team, I said, if any inquiries
Speaker 1: come in, I don't care who it is. I want
Speaker 1: for you to just send this polite decline to them.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about it because I'm going
Speaker 1: to want to say yes. I don't want to see
Speaker 1: it because it's gonna make me aunty that I should
Speaker 1: do it. And I just want you to send this
Speaker 1: out and if it's the right thing, I truly believe
Speaker 1: it will come back in the right timing. I believe
Speaker 1: that that will happen. And so I also have a
Speaker 1: note on my phone that I use often, and it's
Speaker 1: when I get an invitation that's wonderful or from somebody
Speaker 1: I love, and all it says is, oh, my goodness, like,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for considering me for this opportunity.
Speaker 1: I'm so flattered and I'm so excited for you. Right now,
Speaker 1: I have to politely decline, and I want for you
Speaker 1: to know that this, in me declining, it is not
Speaker 1: a reflection of you or your opportunity or the work
Speaker 1: that you're doing. It is solely a reflection of the
Speaker 1: values that I'm living, and me saying yes to you
Speaker 1: right now means that I'm going to have to say
Speaker 1: no to what is most important to me, and right
Speaker 1: now that is my family. I truly hope you understand.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to work with you in the future.
Speaker 1: I'm cheering you on as you go, wishing you the best,
Speaker 1: and I also include a caveat that says, I hope
Speaker 1: that in me doing this, it is an invitation for
Speaker 1: you to lean in and live out the values in
Speaker 1: your life as well. Wow, what a message. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's your beautiful. I haven't memorized because I
Speaker 1: need it off. I know. I was like, Wow, that
Speaker 1: is That's like a deep, genuine, word for word message.
Speaker 1: I love that. I mean, even just the depth of
Speaker 1: that message is so powerful, and I just want to
Speaker 1: take a moment everyone's listening or watching just to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that that often you can have a message it says, hey,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, I'm grateful, but I can't do
Speaker 1: this right now. I hope you understand, and that's great.
Speaker 1: But the depth of that message to even remind someone
Speaker 1: to follow their own values, to explain what your value
Speaker 1: is right now, I think so much is lost in
Speaker 1: not communicating our values and our priorities. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that we need to create a world where we
Speaker 1: can more easily explain our priority and our values without
Speaker 1: feeling uncomfortable about them. And I think often people think
Speaker 1: they need to lie or make something up or constructing, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like when someone gets that message, not only
Speaker 1: do they not understand you, actually haven't helped them understand
Speaker 1: what they need to learn for themselves as well. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I went through it. Recently. I sent a
Speaker 1: similar message where I was really explaining that. I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is why I struggle with this, and
Speaker 1: I was even explaining my struggle and how hard it
Speaker 1: is for me to say no, but how I know
Speaker 1: that if I say yes, I'm actually gonna let you
Speaker 1: down even more later. And I just wanted to make
Speaker 1: you aware of that. And yes, I did tell my
Speaker 1: life story a little bit, but it was the same
Speaker 1: point that I was like, I need to really explain
Speaker 1: the context behind this message and this no. And I
Speaker 1: think what that ends up doing is it actually creates
Speaker 1: really beautiful or opportunities. And I'll always say to someone,
Speaker 1: I'll say, I'm sure you can understand it. I'd love
Speaker 1: to know if you do. And nineteen percent at the
Speaker 1: time someone will come back and say, of course I
Speaker 1: understand it. I protect my time in the same way
Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. And then you go, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: we actually are more aligned than we think. So I
Speaker 1: love that advice. It's so great, Jenna. So you know,
Speaker 1: the books in three parts. The first part is who
Speaker 1: you are, yes, And that's what we've been talking about.
Speaker 1: And I would highly recommend that everyone dives into it
Speaker 1: because the book talks about everything from Jenna's childhood to
Speaker 1: you know, her feelings about motherhood. And I am not
Speaker 1: asking her to repeat what's in the book. I would
Speaker 1: love you to go and read the book and dive
Speaker 1: into it and then helps you figure out who you
Speaker 1: are and how to be clear about your values and priorities,
Speaker 1: which we're realizing are so integral to know. And as
Speaker 1: we know, if we don't know our values and priorities,
Speaker 1: we will be living based on someone else's or an
Speaker 1: adopted sense of values and priority. But in the second
Speaker 1: part of the book, you talk about who has you
Speaker 1: and who you have right, and this I think I
Speaker 1: gravitated towards this a lot, because I think sometimes we
Speaker 1: if we have good networks and communities and families and units,
Speaker 1: we often take it for granted because we assume that's
Speaker 1: just how life is. So can you talk to me
Speaker 1: a bit about how you've constructed healthy community and support
Speaker 1: systems around you and given yourselves the permission to lean
Speaker 1: on others, because I find like that's what most of
Speaker 1: us don't want to do, is we don't want to
Speaker 1: depend on others and make people feel we're dependent on them.
Speaker 1: So the second part is that who you have and
Speaker 1: who as you? Because I recognize that we are in
Speaker 1: this season of life and in this area of like
Speaker 1: the world where we have never been more connected, but
Speaker 1: we also don't feel fully known. And I think there
Speaker 1: is nothing worse than being in a room filled with
Speaker 1: people and feeling lonely. Like loneliness isn't just the act
Speaker 1: of being alone, it's feeling like people don't know the
Speaker 1: real you. And I feel like we're in this world
Speaker 1: where that is so common. It's like have you ever
Speaker 1: entered a building and you know that if you just
Speaker 1: exit stage life left, like no one would question who
Speaker 1: you were, where you were, if you were even there.
Speaker 1: And I feel like we're kind of walking through life
Speaker 1: in that way. And we're also in this era where
Speaker 1: people post, you know, bachelotte parties and there's like twenty
Speaker 1: people in matching swimsuits and you're like, I have like
Speaker 1: three close friends and like, is something wrong with me?
Speaker 1: Or like why don't I have this like village around me?
Speaker 1: And a lot of it is because we aren't showing
Speaker 1: up allowing ourselves to fully know others and to be
Speaker 1: fully known. And I think that the pandemic actually gave
Speaker 1: us this really unique invitation because for so long we
Speaker 1: were able to separate, like career Jenna and mom Jenna
Speaker 1: and marriage Jenna and friend Jenna, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: we're doing everything under one roof and we're forced to
Speaker 1: communicate in different ways, and we're four to learn how
Speaker 1: to be a good friend from afar, and we're forced
Speaker 1: to be reminded that, like, we need to reach out
Speaker 1: just as much as we hope people reach out to us.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting is I've had this practice for I
Speaker 1: don't know, probably ten years, where every single day when
Speaker 1: I think of people, I text them and it'll just
Speaker 1: be I know, I've sent you a few I've sent
Speaker 1: your wife, if you like where if you come into
Speaker 1: my life or my mind or I see something and
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh do you would love that? Or whatever
Speaker 1: that is, to just reach out, like the universe is
Speaker 1: guiding me towards this opportunity to encourage or check in
Speaker 1: or just be there for someone. And oftentimes it comes
Speaker 1: in the form of like no need to respond, just
Speaker 1: want you to know I'm thinking of you, or I
Speaker 1: saw this thing, like if you want to share how
Speaker 1: you're doing, like just check in. But when I think
Speaker 1: about when we're really feeling lonely, a lot of times
Speaker 1: our act is to like close up and to like
Speaker 1: close ourselves off. And I really think it's this really
Speaker 1: great opportunity for us to reach out and to seek
Speaker 1: and when you bring up like help. There's this chapter
Speaker 1: where it's like one plus one equals a million, and
Speaker 1: it's my story about how I was white knuckling so
Speaker 1: much of my life. I think a lot of us
Speaker 1: do that, where we wear all the hats we can
Speaker 1: do it. We're just getting by. We're holding on with
Speaker 1: all of our might to keep the control, and life
Speaker 1: often gives us these opportunities or it forces us to
Speaker 1: open up our hands. And for me, when we went
Speaker 1: through two pregnancy losses, I was in this place where
Speaker 1: I was like I have to show up to work.
Speaker 1: I had to show up and shoot a wedding. As
Speaker 1: a wedding photographer after getting this news, and I recognize,
Speaker 1: like I cannot do this anymore, Like I cannot. I
Speaker 1: have built something that requires me to show up to
Speaker 1: get paid, and right now I can't show up. And
Speaker 1: I can't keep doing this to myself because life is
Speaker 1: not always going to invite us to show up. Sometimes
Speaker 1: life calls us to like slow down and to be
Speaker 1: and to sit. And I had run my business by
Speaker 1: myself for years and years and years, and I finally
Speaker 1: got to a place where I said three words, I
Speaker 1: need help, and it transformed everything for me. And it's
Speaker 1: been really fascinating being in this season of motherhood and
Speaker 1: launching a book and all of these different things where
Speaker 1: I'm like, usually I'm the helper, and so asking for
Speaker 1: help is so uncomfortable, but it stretches you in ways
Speaker 1: that allows you to invite people in. And one of
Speaker 1: my friends, Ali Stroker, she is in a wheelchair. She's
Speaker 1: an incredible actress, and she once told me this story
Speaker 1: that totally changed the way I look at asking for help.
Speaker 1: And she said, a lot of times people will come
Speaker 1: and try with good intentions to help me in my wheelchair,
Speaker 1: when really I don't need it. But I've learned to
Speaker 1: recognize that for some people, being the helper is the
Speaker 1: greatest gift I can give them. And when she said that,
Speaker 1: it really made me pause and think, there are so
Speaker 1: many people in my life who love to help, who
Speaker 1: find joy in being the helper, And if I can
Speaker 1: give them the invitation or the opportunity to do that,
Speaker 1: suddenly who I have and who has me expands. And
Speaker 1: a lot of times it's like our pride. It's like
Speaker 1: pride's utter chokehold that like keeps us from like opening
Speaker 1: our hands to what's possible. And so it's a white
Speaker 1: knuckling that is not something that you can maintain, and
Speaker 1: it's something that really keeps greatness out of your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and you know you touched on it there.
Speaker 1: It was you know, I really admire your bravery for
Speaker 1: doing it. In the book as well, you you talk
Speaker 1: about the time where you found out that you're you know,
Speaker 1: you baby didn't have a heartbeat, and I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know that the book is full of that level
Speaker 1: of vulnerability, and I think you talk about a lot
Speaker 1: of things that we also don't ever talk about, and
Speaker 1: definitely obviously people that we don't announce it on Instagram,
Speaker 1: and that potentially is in the right forum anyway. But
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about when you look at
Speaker 1: that community around you, one of the things that's really
Speaker 1: benefited me. I said this to someone the other day.
Speaker 1: They were like, Oh, it seems like you make some
Speaker 1: really good decisions in your life life, and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I had people in my life who told me
Speaker 1: all the bad decisions they made. And I'd say, all
Speaker 1: the good decisions I've made in my life is because
Speaker 1: I've had a few older people in my life who've
Speaker 1: told me about all their bad decisions, and that gave
Speaker 1: me so much hindsight, and it gave me so much
Speaker 1: awareness that it allowed me the space to think about
Speaker 1: things a bit ahead of the time. And so I
Speaker 1: can't take any credit for the good decisions I've made.
Speaker 1: I can only take I can only give the credit
Speaker 1: to the people who shared their either poor decisions with
Speaker 1: me or, as in your case, you do in this book,
Speaker 1: challenges or heartbreaks that they went through in order to
Speaker 1: be hopefully more prepared or more equipped to deal with
Speaker 1: certain things. And so I was like, the best mentorship
Speaker 1: is actually not good advice. The best mentorship is just
Speaker 1: an honest experience of what someone's going through. Can you
Speaker 1: talk to me a bit about like how you've shared
Speaker 1: and how people have shared with you, and how that's
Speaker 1: such an important part of building that community and you're
Speaker 1: doing it through the book. Of course, there are so
Speaker 1: many things that are taboo, which is crazy where it's
Speaker 1: like so many people are experiencing it and it's a
Speaker 1: part of the human experience, but nobody's talking about it.
Speaker 1: And it is so isolating, right, like you feel like
Speaker 1: you are broken, or you are the only one, or
Speaker 1: it's your fault that you went through something. And years ago,
Speaker 1: we lost one of our best friends in a car accident,
Speaker 1: and I found myself going back to his social media
Speaker 1: feeds to feel connected to him. And he didn't know
Speaker 1: when he was talking about taco bell or posting that
Speaker 1: funny family guy meme that like that would be a
Speaker 1: part of his legacy, right, Like, we don't think about that,
Speaker 1: but every single post we're hitting published on online is
Speaker 1: a piece of our legacy. Like we don't do what
Speaker 1: our parents didn't have scrap books and all the little,
Speaker 1: you know, trinkets and put it in an album. These days,
Speaker 1: it's so digital, And I remember when I found myself
Speaker 1: like going to look through his old tweets or things
Speaker 1: just to feel connected to him. I vowed to myself that,
Speaker 1: like what you see online will never be just a
Speaker 1: highlight reel, it will always be real, like r e
Speaker 1: al my real life. And I have stuck by that
Speaker 1: through thick and thin, through the good through the bad,
Speaker 1: because when I get reminded of a memory on Facebook,
Speaker 1: I want to remember that actual moment and not just
Speaker 1: the shiny And when we went through our pregnancy loss,
Speaker 1: for me, part of it was helping people to feel
Speaker 1: less alone, because one in four people women experience that,
Speaker 1: but two it was to give meaning to the experience
Speaker 1: I think as people that are optimistic or positive people.
Speaker 1: Where I was like, life is teaching me a lesson,
Speaker 1: and even when that lesson is inconceivable, or you don't
Speaker 1: have a reason or you can't really pinpoint what that is,
Speaker 1: I really clung to this belief that, like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to give meaning to this mess no matter how I can.
Speaker 1: And there's this story in the book that I love,
Speaker 1: and it's called What Brookshields Doesn't Know. And I was
Speaker 1: at this event with all these incredible women, and there
Speaker 1: was this president of a company that I worked with,
Speaker 1: and she was a woman, and she came up to
Speaker 1: me and we were talking about her children, and she said,
Speaker 1: do you know that I went through IVF seven times
Speaker 1: in order to have my daughter? And this is like
Speaker 1: years ago, like a decade ago. And I said, oh
Speaker 1: my god, how many times did you want to give up?
Speaker 1: And she said never? And I said, how is that possible?
Speaker 1: Like IVF is a most excruciating process, Like there are
Speaker 1: so many layers to it, and so many things and
Speaker 1: so many hopes and dreams and failures and things that
Speaker 1: you just like hate going through. And she said, I
Speaker 1: didn't give up because one time I was watching an
Speaker 1: interview and brookshield said that she did IVF seven times
Speaker 1: to conceive her daughter, and if she can do it
Speaker 1: seven times, so can I. And I think about like that.
Speaker 1: Brookshields doesn't know that she's sponsible for this beautiful girl
Speaker 1: named Maggie who lives in New York City, but her
Speaker 1: vulnerability and sharing that story inspired an total stranger to
Speaker 1: get herself in the ring of something that was told
Speaker 1: to be impossible by doctors but created a miracle. And
Speaker 1: I think that stories have this opportunity to do this,
Speaker 1: and I think that vulnerable stories invite people to again
Speaker 1: step into their own vulnerability. And I've learned so much
Speaker 1: about like the things that I try to keep hidden,
Speaker 1: the things that I'm afraid to share, the things that
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that everyone else is thinking about me. Those
Speaker 1: are called the human experience. Those are the things that
Speaker 1: connects me so much more than pretending like I have
Speaker 1: it all together. I don't have insecurities or that I
Speaker 1: don't worry, And so I've just believed in the power
Speaker 1: of story and the power of real and when you
Speaker 1: put real story to life, that's what really transforms other
Speaker 1: people's lives. Yeah, and I definitely think you do that
Speaker 1: in this book so wonderfully right. There's so many stories,
Speaker 1: whether it's personal, whether it's Korea Bay, you know, I
Speaker 1: think it's so important. One of the things I tried
Speaker 1: to do and think like a monk when I wrote
Speaker 1: it was I don't talk about any enlightened experiences. So
Speaker 1: I talked about all my worst meditation experiences because the
Speaker 1: goal was because it's relatable and it's true, Like, there
Speaker 1: were just so many poor meditation experiences, and I think
Speaker 1: it's very easy to be like, well, you know, this
Speaker 1: was this amazing experience I had, and everyone's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, like like you just said, like someone's gone
Speaker 1: through seven of the most difficult, excruciating things to get there,
Speaker 1: but that story is so much more powerful. Tell me
Speaker 1: a bit about you know. The third act of the
Speaker 1: book goes into like people setting their goals, living their truth,
Speaker 1: achieving it, making a plan. I want to ask you
Speaker 1: a different question because the book breaks down how you
Speaker 1: do that and what to do. So if anyone who's
Speaker 1: wondering how Jenna goes from who you are to who
Speaker 1: you have and who has you too, then what you're
Speaker 1: going to do about it to actually build it through.
Speaker 1: What I'm more intrigued by is what's a worthy goal?
Speaker 1: Like what's a worthy pursuit? Because I feel like everyone
Speaker 1: talks about goals and goal setting and everyone kind of
Speaker 1: has goals or may have goals. But when I was young,
Speaker 1: all we ever learned about was setting smart goals right specific, measurable, achievable, realistic,
Speaker 1: and time bound. But no one ever told me what
Speaker 1: a worthy goal was. And as I've got an older
Speaker 1: I I do believe that there are worthy pursuits and
Speaker 1: there are pursuits that will let us down. As you said,
Speaker 1: there's so many goals that you hit and you go, well,
Speaker 1: is that it? So how do you help people think
Speaker 1: about Is there a way of knowing what a healthy,
Speaker 1: worthy pursuit or goal is. Yeah, I think it's one
Speaker 1: that feels good, that the pursuit feels good and the
Speaker 1: end product feels right. And for me, I think it's
Speaker 1: really interesting. I remember Jay, we were together in Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico and end In through Brendan Burchard let us through
Speaker 1: this exercise, and it was envisioning these scenes that we
Speaker 1: want for our lives, like what would true success look like?
Speaker 1: And he had already gone through the exercise of like
Speaker 1: envisioning your best moments of life all of these things.
Speaker 1: But I loved how he framed it because it was
Speaker 1: like envisioned these moments before they happened, so that when
Speaker 1: they happen you are fully awake to them. And for me,
Speaker 1: the scene that I envisioned was like pancakes on a
Speaker 1: Saturday morning, looking out of the lake with my family.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because every time we make pancakes on
Speaker 1: a Saturday morning, Drew will look at me and I
Speaker 1: will be like teary eyed, and he'll be like, we're
Speaker 1: living it, like this is the scene and we're awake
Speaker 1: to it. Because how many successful people do you know
Speaker 1: who have done all these amazing things in their life
Speaker 1: they say they missed it. They missed it because they
Speaker 1: were just in pursuit of the next thing, or the
Speaker 1: journey didn't feel good, or they arrived and it wasn't
Speaker 1: where they thought they wanted to be. And so when
Speaker 1: it comes to setting a goal, I want you to
Speaker 1: ask yourself what feels good? Like what in the pursuit
Speaker 1: feels good? And here's an example. I did this visualization
Speaker 1: exercise after our two losses. I was like unpacking my
Speaker 1: grief and really trying to like face it because I
Speaker 1: had buried it the first time. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I've got to figure out how did not move on
Speaker 1: from this, but how to move with my grief? Like
Speaker 1: how do I move forward carrying this grief with me
Speaker 1: as a changed person? And I did this visualization exercise
Speaker 1: and my friend was leading me through it and she
Speaker 1: was like, envisioned the most vibrant version of yourself, Like
Speaker 1: you are fully alive, energized, excited about what you're about
Speaker 1: to do for your day. And she said this line
Speaker 1: where it was like put your fingers and the fingerslots
Speaker 1: like step into where your toes are, like what do
Speaker 1: you see and what do you feel? And it was
Speaker 1: funny because I was doing this meditation, there tears streaming
Speaker 1: down my face, and I'm envisioning this little girl in
Speaker 1: pancakes and Drew and this Persian rug and like all
Speaker 1: of these things. And in this vision, I had on
Speaker 1: jeans and a white linen shirt. And I opened my
Speaker 1: eyes after the visualization and I had on yoga pants
Speaker 1: and like an old college T shirt. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I want the baby and the pancakes. But if I
Speaker 1: can't even live today with the jeans and the linen shirt,
Speaker 1: how do I expect to become a fully different person
Speaker 1: when the thing that I want arrives? Right? Like, sometimes
Speaker 1: the waiting season is just as important as what it
Speaker 1: is that we're waiting for, and the same thing goes
Speaker 1: for goals. Sometimes the journey of working towards the goals
Speaker 1: should be enjoyed just as much as achieving the goal itself.
Speaker 1: And so I've learned how to make sure that the
Speaker 1: pursuit feels good, but that the goal is truly my
Speaker 1: definition of success, because my definition of success isn't shiny,
Speaker 1: it's not great. It's literally a bag of gluten free pancakes.
Speaker 1: But when I'm living it, I know it and I'm
Speaker 1: awake to it. And I think nowadays it's like with
Speaker 1: the internet, you could follow the fashion blogger and then
Speaker 1: follow the home decor and then follow the HealthNet. And
Speaker 1: our brain tricks is into thinking that we need to
Speaker 1: do and be all of those things in order to
Speaker 1: be happy. But if we go back to the beginning
Speaker 1: of the conversation where we talk about like contentedness is
Speaker 1: a gift, it's not complacent, See, like, how can you
Speaker 1: be at peace with your life? And what does that
Speaker 1: look like as you work towards the goal? And so
Speaker 1: for me, it's like more so about the journey, because
Speaker 1: if we know anything, the journey is ninety percent of
Speaker 1: the pursuit and the actual goal achieving is two percent.
Speaker 1: And so I want my life to feel good while
Speaker 1: I'm working towards that thing. Yeah, I think that's a
Speaker 1: great definition, and I'm really glad you clarified that, because
Speaker 1: I think we often set goals by default. We adopt
Speaker 1: goals from our parents, our friends, our family, Instagram, TikTok,
Speaker 1: social media. We just we have a goal without even
Speaker 1: knowing we have one, and so I think making it
Speaker 1: a more conscious, intentional process is so important. And I
Speaker 1: encourage everyone who wants to live their truth, who wants
Speaker 1: to authentically discover who they are, who wants to make
Speaker 1: a shift or a change in your life right now,
Speaker 1: maybe you're going through a transition, maybe you know you
Speaker 1: need to start one. Please order Jenna's book today because
Speaker 1: it will truly guide you and be that helping hand
Speaker 1: that we all need on that path. And sometimes I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people and I can honestly say
Speaker 1: this for myself, and I truly back what I'm about
Speaker 1: to say is that I often felt alone in my
Speaker 1: transitions in life from a physical point of view, but
Speaker 1: I would say that books and people in books have
Speaker 1: definitely been that navigation guide and helping hand that I've needed.
Speaker 1: And so often I haven't necessarily been able to turn
Speaker 1: to someone right next to me to know what's going on,
Speaker 1: because they may not have experienced what I'm experiencing, But
Speaker 1: someone in a book has experienced that or experienced something similar,
Speaker 1: and that I feel now so close to that person
Speaker 1: that I've never met, and most of the people I'm
Speaker 1: talking about are not even alive from books that I've read.
Speaker 1: So I really believe that that if you're in that transition,
Speaker 1: if you're in that journey, if you're struggling with who
Speaker 1: you are, if you're trying to figure out the people
Speaker 1: around you, if you're trying to make a career change,
Speaker 1: if you're having struggles with motherhood and that journey and
Speaker 1: your identity right now, Jenna, really I want to be honest,
Speaker 1: like very vulnerably and honestly captures her story and shares
Speaker 1: the insights to help see what you can apply. Jenna,
Speaker 1: I thank you so much for writing this book, for
Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time today and use you know.
Speaker 1: We end every on Purpose episode with a final five,
Speaker 1: which is a fast five round where every question has
Speaker 1: to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So, Jennaka,
Speaker 1: you've trained my whole life for this, You've trained your
Speaker 1: whole life for this, You're already prepared. Okay, So the
Speaker 1: first question is what is the best advice you've ever received? Done?
Speaker 1: Is better than perfect? Nice? I like that we've never
Speaker 1: had that on the show, which is good. What is
Speaker 1: the worst advice you've ever received? Just keep on reaching?
Speaker 1: What is the first thing you do every morning and
Speaker 1: the last thing you do every night? Look at my
Speaker 1: baby monitor. I love it. The honesty. See this is
Speaker 1: why I asked that question. I love the honesty. Fourth,
Speaker 1: what is the biggest risk you've ever taken leaving my
Speaker 1: nine to five job to become an entrepreneur? Nice? And
Speaker 1: fifth and final question, if you could make one law
Speaker 1: that everyone in the world would have to follow, what
Speaker 1: would it be to take a gap year before doing
Speaker 1: what you think you want to do and figure out
Speaker 1: who you are? Wow? Great advice. I like that one.
Speaker 1: I took one before university and one three after, so
Speaker 1: definitely definitely I agree. I agree with that advice everyone.
Speaker 1: Jenna Kutcher. The book is called how are You Really
Speaker 1: Living Your Truth? One answer at a time. Make sure
Speaker 1: you grab a copy of the book. And Jenna has
Speaker 1: a special gift for us that we're going to get.
Speaker 1: As part of this, I want you to head over
Speaker 1: to Jenna Kutcher dot com forward slash Jay. We will
Speaker 1: put the link in the captions and the show notes
Speaker 1: and everywhere else. So Jenna Kutcher Forward slash j as
Speaker 1: in my name j j why and you will be
Speaker 1: able to see this amazing gift that she's going to
Speaker 1: give you a bit of a sneak peek about. So,
Speaker 1: Jenna over to you. Yeah, So, I wanted to think
Speaker 1: about how this would be most valuable because my book
Speaker 1: is not about finding my truth or sharing my truth,
Speaker 1: but inviting you to find your own. So I gathered
Speaker 1: a bunch of our incredible mutual friends and did deep
Speaker 1: dive interviews that aren't public you cannot find them anywhere,
Speaker 1: and put together a course that is in theme with
Speaker 1: the book, so on topics like identity, career, relationship, balancing things,
Speaker 1: shifting careers, all of those things. It is all inside
Speaker 1: of an incredible free course that you cannot get anywhere else,
Speaker 1: and you'll get it when you pre order or order
Speaker 1: the book, and you can find that at Jenna Kutcher
Speaker 1: dot com slash j. I love it, Jenna, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for doing that, because, Yeah, like you said,
Speaker 1: I think so many of these things, that things we're
Speaker 1: all struggling with, we need to hear it from lots
Speaker 1: of different voices, lots of different faces. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that you've brought them all together is just absolutely brilliant.
Speaker 1: So please everyone check that out, subscribe for that, sign
Speaker 1: up for that at Jennacutch dot com, Forward slash Jay Jenna,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see you again. I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: your family again. I'm just so grateful we got to
Speaker 1: take this time out. I really hope everyone will read
Speaker 1: your book, devour it, apply it, practically put it into
Speaker 1: their life. And I can't wait to see it change
Speaker 1: so many lives. So thank you for this work, thank
Speaker 1: you for your life, and thank you so much for
Speaker 1: this opportunity. Thank you for pouring into all of us.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking on behalf of all of your listeners, myself included.
Speaker 1: I know that you have left a huge, lasting imprint,
Speaker 1: and I think it's really easy as someone who creates,
Speaker 1: to forget all of the incredible ways that you are
Speaker 1: creating ripple effects in lives, in generations, in families, and
Speaker 1: I can speak from my family's experience, you have done
Speaker 1: just that. So thank you for the work that you do. No,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Everyone who's been listening on watching,
Speaker 1: make sure you follow Jenna across media and makes you
Speaker 1: tag Jenna and I with any of the nuggets of wisdom,
Speaker 1: the insights, even pages from her book. Take screenshots, tag
Speaker 1: us both, let us know what's resonating with you, what's
Speaker 1: connecting with you. I genuinely love seeing you with a
Speaker 1: book open from the podcast, with sharing something from one
Speaker 1: of our guest pages, because to me, it shows that
Speaker 1: we're connected. It shows that we're listening learning from each other.
Speaker 1: And so I genuinely go on Instagram myself regularly and
Speaker 1: we'll go through posts and tags and everything, and I
Speaker 1: love seeing you all bring so much love to the podcast.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening everyone. I'll see you
Speaker 1: again next week for another episode, and a big thank
Speaker 1: you to Jenna again. Thanks everyone,