1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Little House on the Prairie 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: Star breaks cover after very disturbing sex charges. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: What exactly did she know and when? 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: This as Hollywood Royalty brands the suspect a creep. I'm 5 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want to thank 6 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: you for being with us. The argument in court that 7 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: this whole child sex abuse claim is fabricated over revenged. 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 3: One of the boys reported to his counselor at the 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 3: time allegedly that Timothy had touched him in the front 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 3: on his privates and in the back on his privates. 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 3: Two little boys victimized being used as ponds by probably 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 3: all parties involved. 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: What exactly did the Little House on the Prairie start 14 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: know about claims of child sex abuse? 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: What did she know and when? 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 1: This? As that Little House on the Prairie Star Melissa 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: Gilbert in the last hours, breaks cover and takes to 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: social media. 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: Look what are they doing? 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie Star Melissa Gilbert apparently is 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: eating dessert and dancing in her kitchen. Now, I'm all 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: about eating dessert and dancing in your kitchen, but right 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: now there are serious claims of child sex abuse and 24 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: Other alleged victims are speaking out, including Hollywood Royalty, the 25 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: Golden Couple in Hollywood. Nobody's arguing with that. I'm talking 26 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: about the family. A pretty woman, Julia Roberts, claiming. 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: Bus Filled stalked her. 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: You know what that's called putting your head in the 29 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: sand and your tail in the air. 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: Putting your head in the sand and your tail in 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: the air. Nothing's happening. Something is happening. 32 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter Tonight, 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: questions swirling about what Melissa Gilbert knew and when? So, 34 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,839 Speaker 1: what is that and stuff? When did that come out? 35 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: That's the response. 36 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 4: Well, Nancy, actually, the idea of Melissa Gilbert knowing about 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 4: Timothy Busfield and what he was doing, it goes much 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 4: deeper and much further back. You realize that the two 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 4: boys accusing him of doing this on the set the 40 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: bus Field Gilbert couple, they actually took the family in. 41 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 4: They socialized with them, away from the set, away from 42 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 4: business functions, and it got to the point where Melissa 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 4: Gilbert bought Christmas gifts. 44 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 5: For these boys. It was a way of ingratiating themselves. 45 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 4: Maybe, I mean, this was one of those things Nancy 46 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 4: that looking back on it is the red flag. 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: Well, here's my concern. 48 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: I know that Melissa Gilbert knew about the claims at 49 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: the time because she was on a conference call where 50 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: it was all discussed, and the explanation was, it's the parents. 51 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: They're making it up. They're out for revenge. I mean 52 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: to Rob Shooter joining me. He is the pr guru 53 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: to the stars. He's seen them all and worked with 54 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: them all. I'm talking about Britney Spears, I'm talking about 55 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: Sean Puffy comes excuse me, Diddy, and there's the list 56 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: is endless. Rob Shooter is the star of Naughty but 57 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: Nice podcast. He's author of a brand new book which 58 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: is climbing the charts on Amazon called It Started with 59 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: a Whisper, and you can find them at robshooter dot 60 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: substack dot com. Okay, enough about you, Shooter, can we 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: get down to it. What else can she do? I mean, 62 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: her entire image is based on wholesomeness. Look, I had 63 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: a total little house on the prairie addiction. 64 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: Shooter. 65 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: As my cases got more and more evil, more and 66 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: more dark, more and more disturbing, that I prosecuted in 67 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: the morning I would watch Little House on the Prairie 68 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: for an hour to calm down before I could go 69 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: to work. 70 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: I feel like I know this woman, I like this woman, 71 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 2: but I can't turn away from what I'm seeing. 72 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: What else can they do besides say it's revenge right right? 73 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 6: That feeling that you're having, Nancy, I think that they 74 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,799 Speaker 6: are exploiting that too. There are many, many people around 75 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 6: the world who loved Little House on the Prairie. It's 76 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 6: still beautiful. It holds up today. I saw a few 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 6: episodes a few nights ago. It's interesting that it has 78 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 6: not been pulled from TV. 79 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: Just stop right there, shooter, shooter, please please, And my 80 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: line of business, I have to say, sees upon every 81 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: inaccuracy and then shred the person that ser Okay, did 82 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: you rob Sheeter? 83 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: In the heart of Manhattan. 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: Tell me that you're watching Little House on the Prairie 85 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: at night. 86 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 6: I love it. I'm an old fashioned type of guy, 87 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 6: but hatt it is not this crazy wild town, Nancy. 88 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 6: There are people here in Manhattan that are really quite sentimental. 89 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 6: I wear my heart on my sleeve. I love that show. 90 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 6: I love classic Turner movies, and so yeah, I was 91 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 6: watching it and I think that they are. They're preying 92 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 6: on people like us who will remember her for who 93 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 6: she was, not who she is today. And these videos 94 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 6: sitting in the kitchen, there she is with her friends. 95 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 6: That could be a scene out of Little House on 96 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 6: the Prairie. I think they're really leaning into this nostalgia 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 6: to make us feel like nothing's going on, that everything 98 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 6: is just fine, and to remind us that she's a 99 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 6: really good person. It won't work, huge mistake. They should 100 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 6: not be doing this, but I understand why they think 101 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 6: this is a good idea. 102 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: Josh Coles Rude, I have sat in court so many 103 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: times at council table and watched women wailing, crying, clearly 104 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: distraught on the other side of the courtroom, hearing the 105 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: evidence pour from the witness stand about their husband, their boyfriend, 106 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 1: their love object. 107 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 2: They don't believe it, they don't want to believe it. 108 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: But we have to. 109 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: Look at whether Melissa Gilbert, and this is like dirt 110 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: in my mouth, whether Melissa Gilbert knew and unintentionally aided 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: and abetted the grooming process. Now, Josh Coles Rude is 112 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: joining us guys. He is a veteran criminal defense attorney. 113 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: He's won a lot of cases. He's a former prosecutor, 114 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: US attorney. He's the founder of the Coles Rude Law Offices. Josh, 115 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: I want you to listen to this. This is what 116 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: investigators state was happening at the time, and Melissa Gilbert, 117 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: God help her, is right in the middle of it. 118 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: Listen. 119 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 7: Investigators interview Busfield on speaker wife actress Melissa Gilbert, President 120 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 7: for the interview. Busfield denies any wrongdoing, but admits tickling 121 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 7: the boys would not have been out of the ordinary 122 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 7: for him, as he likes to have a fun set. 123 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 7: Busfield claims. The lead actress in the series, Elodie Young, 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 7: tells him, the mother of SLNVL, wants revenge on Busfield 125 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 7: because the boys were not brought back for filming the 126 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 7: fourth and final season of the show, suggesting the reason 127 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 7: for the complaint is work related, not that he did 128 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 7: anything wrong with the boys. 129 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: Tickling makes a fun set for who Okay, Josh Coles Rude. 130 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 2: I know that you have seen and vice. 131 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: Versa, but typically it's the women being dragged along as 132 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: the man is being prosecuted for something. She doesn't believe it, 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to believe it, and she's right there 134 00:07:58,560 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: in the conference call. 135 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: There is a conference call. 136 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Where everything is laid out and full and she's there. 137 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: Investigators interview bus Phil by phone and his wife at 138 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: just Melissa Gilbert is present for the interview. 139 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 8: Well, there's two ways to look at this. Number One, 140 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 8: you know, if her husband is innocent, you know, this 141 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 8: is exactly how you would expect a wife to react. 142 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 8: You know, she's been with her husband for a very 143 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 8: long time. She has stated publicly that he's the most 144 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 8: moral person that she knows and that she personally has 145 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 8: not observed anything that she feels like was suspicious. Now, 146 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 8: this type of behavior, as you said, isn't abnormal in 147 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 8: cases like this. And I look towards the Jerry Sandusky case. 148 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 8: If you remember, he was the assistant head coach at 149 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 8: Penn State, and in that case, Jerry Sandusky's wife had 150 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 8: a very similar demeanor where you know, Sandusky was in 151 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 8: the basement doing his thing for over thirty years and 152 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 8: she claims. 153 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: We wait, wait, wait, objection, doing his thing. 154 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: Look around you. Nothing is airbrushed, nothing is edited. We 155 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: want the unfarnished truth. What was Jerry Sandusky doing in 156 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: the basement? 157 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 8: Josh colesrude he was convicted of child molestation, many many 158 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 8: counts of that, and the location where many of those 159 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 8: instances took place was in the basement. And my point 160 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 8: is that many people couldn't fathom why missus Sandusky would 161 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 8: have no knowledge and still to this day stands behind 162 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 8: her husband says he didn't do anything wrong. The answer 163 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 8: is simple. So this is well documented in cases like this, 164 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 8: where a spouse, usually a woman, would it is a 165 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 8: blow against her ego to realize and know that her 166 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 8: husband is a monster, because it makes makes her complicit. 167 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 8: It means that she was Okay, hold. 168 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 2: On, hold on, Josh calls rude. 169 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I think the 170 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: two of us, with all of our law degrees and 171 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: our graduate degrees and our trial experience, I really think 172 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: we need a shrink. Luckily joining us tonight is Karen Stark. 173 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: Karen is a renowned TV and radio trauma expert. She's 174 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: a consultant, she is a forensic psychologist, and you can 175 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: find her at Karenstark dot com. Karen with the seat, Karen, 176 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: boil it down for me, because according to Rob Sheeter, 177 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: it's a lot more. There's a lot more at stake here. 178 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: There is a reason she's got her head in the 179 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: sand and her rear in air. She doesn't want to know, 180 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: she doesn't want to hear it, she doesn't believe it, 181 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: she can't soak it in. 182 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: And there's a reason for that. What's the reason, Karen. 183 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 9: Well, the reason is her public image, everything that we 184 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 9: were seeing about her. She's supposed to be a child advocate, 185 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 9: safety advocate. She preaches that there shouldn't be sexual abuse 186 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 9: and to find abusers, and yet she's living, it's cognitive 187 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 9: distance with somebody who is being accused of the very 188 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 9: thing that her image is advocating for. That she needs 189 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 9: to present herself as don't forget Nancy and everybody who's 190 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 9: listening that she's somebody, she's the little house on the prairie. 191 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 9: She's this perfect woman. She does all the right things 192 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 9: and she's laughing and behind it all, she's living with 193 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 9: somebody who has the worst accusations because we're talking about 194 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 9: damage to children, and so she's got to balance this, 195 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 9: the fact that there are these allegations, it's more than 196 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 9: one incident, and her public image, which is really important. 197 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Dave mac crime stories, investigative reporter. 198 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: What did she know? 199 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: And when these allegations came up years and years ago, 200 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: nothing was done although there was a full fledged studio investigation. 201 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: Isn't that true? 202 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: She had to know, And now they've reared their ugly 203 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: head again and she is posting videos off her refrigerator. 204 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: Tell me about the studio investigation that apparently exonerated by 205 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: Field many years ago. 206 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 4: Nancy, the studio investigation was actually paid for by Warner Brothers, 207 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 4: the producers of this show that Busfield was working on 208 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 4: at the time of these accusations. So yeah, there was 209 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 4: a third party investigation. But Nancy saying he was exonerated 210 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 4: by this investigation would require us to actually analyze what 211 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 4: type of investigation was done. And when you get down 212 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 4: to the nitty gritty of this, you're investigating yourself for 213 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 4: alleged abuse kind of thing. There's no way they're going 214 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 4: to come up with anything other than exoneration or they're 215 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 4: talking lawsuits. So when you get into that investigation, it 216 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 4: was not done by the police, It wasn't done by 217 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 4: anybody other than who Warner Brothers hired to investigate the allegend. 218 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 4: And they said they being the investigator said they could 219 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 4: not corroborate the allegations. 220 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 2: Well, you're right, Dave Matt. Listen. 221 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 7: The initial investigation into Buzzfield on the set of TV 222 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 7: showed The Cleaning Lady begins with a complaint made through 223 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 7: sag Aftra. An internal investigation commission by Warner Brothers, a 224 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 7: third party hired to investigate, concluded there was no corroborating 225 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 7: evidence Busfield engaged in an appropriate conduct or is ever 226 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 7: alone with child actors. Busfield claims the studio investigation cleared him. 227 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: That is very different the studio investigation when their rear 228 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: rand is on the line, their ass in a slang 229 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: legal term, very different outcome than what the LAPD investigators say. 230 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: Listen to what they say. 231 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 7: Investigator conclusion pedophiles infiltrate families under a trusted role like Timothy, 232 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 7: who as a producer, exploited the hectic film sets to 233 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 7: tickle and touch sl on his penis and buttocks, masking 234 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 7: it as play. He would invite the family to offset 235 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 7: gatherings with his wife, buying Christmas gifts to foster closeness, 236 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 7: making sl feel special and dependent. Classic grooming to eroad 237 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 7: boundaries isolate the victim and silent suspicions by blending abuse 238 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 7: into normalcy. The dual tactic charming parents while secretly violating 239 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 7: the child builds a web of complicity that is hard 240 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 7: to unravel, delaying detection as families trust the abusers facade which. 241 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 2: Is true selity charges. 242 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: Have now been brought against the Little House on the 243 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: Prairie star husband Timothy Busfield. 244 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 2: They say it's. 245 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: All revenge, that the alleged victims' parents are angry, the 246 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: children are not brought back for another season. 247 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: So what is the truth? 248 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: What, if anything, can we make of Melissa Gilbert, the 249 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: Little House star recent postings. 250 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: What is her response? 251 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 10: Look, Hey there, friends, it's me your friendly neighborhood halfpoint 252 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 10: aka Melissa Gilbert aka the artist formerly known as Laura 253 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 10: Ingles Wilder from Little House on the Prairie, co founder 254 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 10: of Modern Prairie, All Things Prairie, Prairie, Prairie, Prairie. Hey, 255 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 10: I am so excited This coming Friday, we are hosting 256 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 10: an event called Ask Melissa Anything, literally ask me well, 257 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 10: I mean, within reason, almost anything. We can talk about 258 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 10: prairie stuff, modern prairie stuff, Little House on the Prairie stuff. 259 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 10: I've got tea to spill, and I am ready to 260 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 10: do it. So go on over to our events page 261 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 10: and either on the app or our website and sign up. 262 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 10: And I'm so looking forward to seeing all of you 263 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 10: on Friday evening. It is this coming Friday, and you 264 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 10: can ask me anything, Grab yourself a drink, cozy up and. 265 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: Come hang out. 266 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 10: It's gonna be a lot of fun. 267 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 2: It always is. So what is she doing there, Rob Shooter. 268 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: She's saying, formally, this prairie, that prairie, modern prairie, little 269 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: house on the prairie, prairie, prairie, prairie. 270 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: That's exactly what you just said. 271 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 6: I'm very smart, Nansa. She is leaning in. She is 272 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 6: leaning in to what has made her rich, what has 273 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 6: made her famous, and something from the past which still 274 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 6: makes her relevant today. The show is still a big deal. 275 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 6: It was from many many years ago, decades ago, but 276 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 6: it has held up and not only has it kept 277 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 6: her in the spotlight, it's made her a lot of money. 278 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 6: This is her identity and it feels to me as 279 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 6: if she now is more concerned with her public image, 280 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 6: with the way that she's perceived, than getting to the 281 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 6: bottom of this and figuring out the truth. If the 282 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 6: truth is on her side and she's okay here, all 283 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 6: this will go away and she will bounce back and 284 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,239 Speaker 6: her career will bounce back. However, if it's not, it 285 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 6: doesn't a matter how much spin she does over the 286 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 6: next couple of months, she's in a lot of trouble. 287 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: Judsh Coles rude. 288 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: She is mentioning ask Melissa anything session. If I were 289 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: the defense attorney in that case, it would be over 290 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: my cold dead body that she would answer questions that 291 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 1: even the monastation case. 292 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 8: Well, let me tell you, she is aware of the 293 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,679 Speaker 8: facts of the case coming from the defense, specifically that 294 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 8: the parents in the case are fraudsters, that the mother 295 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 8: in the case threatened her husband saying that she was 296 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 8: going to get them after he decided not to renew 297 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 8: the children's contracts. You know, and don't forget that the husband, 298 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 8: he is a former lawyer, he was convicted, disbarred. He's 299 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 8: a man that used his law license to steal. And 300 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 8: it wouldn't be surprising if these two fraudsters coached their 301 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 8: children to make false accusations against this woman's husband in 302 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 8: order to gain fame and money. Now she is aware 303 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 8: of these facts when she gives these statements, and of 304 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 8: course she has her husband's back. You know, there's no 305 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 8: corroborating evidence, there's no DNA, there's no fingerprints. All you 306 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 8: have are the statements from these two children who and 307 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 8: there are inconsistent statements. Not only that, but the two 308 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 8: children also denied that anything happened when they were first 309 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 8: interviewed by police officers. And she knows that too. 310 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: Josh, Josh, my question to you was a good A 311 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: defense attorney would not allow her an open forum to 312 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: ask Melissa anything at this juncture. Now, you mentioned that 313 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: the boys denied everything when they were questioned formally, and 314 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: you're absolutely correct, And I'm about to play that right 315 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: now in Busfeld's defense and in Melissa Gilbert's defense. 316 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: Let's hear it. You know what's right and roll, right. 317 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 11: You know, no one could touch your private. 318 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 9: Areas, but buddy doesn't touch you. 319 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 11: He doesn't touch your private hearts. Okay, Yeah, And you 320 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 11: know what's right and wrong. Right, you know where people 321 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 11: can't touch, where people can't be Yeah, you know that, right? 322 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 11: Does Tim ever do that? No, he's never touched me, 323 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 11: never touched you. Yeah, in though in like you know 324 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 11: your private areas, right? Never did that? 325 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 5: Never? 326 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 11: Okay? 327 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: That is very powerful for the defense. 328 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 329 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: We are not saying anyone is guilty or not guilty. 330 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: We are looking at the claims. And by the way, 331 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: at this hour, more claims against Busfield are coming out, 332 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: claims from people that at the time so they were 333 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: afraid to come forward, that their careers would be ruined. 334 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 2: And more so, who's to be believed? 335 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: Are they all lying and Buzzfield and Gilbert are the 336 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: only ones telling the truth? Is that possible? At this hour? 337 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: Melissa Gilbert fights back by posting foody instance and more. 338 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 10: It's time for breakfast with a homemade English muffin a 339 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 10: cup of tea of. 340 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: Course, our buttercrock. 341 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to put some butter on my English muffriend. 342 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 6: Very excited about this. 343 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: And some jelly. 344 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 6: Just tat. 345 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 10: Hummingbirds are fighting. 346 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: This is so great. 347 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 9: I love this. Yum yum. 348 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 2: Rob Shooter, what is she doing? 349 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 6: She's delusional. It's a really dumb idea. I can't quite 350 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 6: explain this. I would imagine when something this horrific happens 351 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 6: to a family member, you do want to retreat to 352 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 6: your kitchen, and you do want to cook. The difference 353 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 6: is we don't put it on video. Why are you 354 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 6: doing this? Why are you sending out these staged moments 355 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 6: to try and convince us that everything is absolutely normal. 356 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 6: It's not normal. It's really really bad. And the fact 357 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 6: that she's doing this alarms me because it tells me 358 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 6: just how bad judgment she has. She should say nothing, 359 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 6: She should certainly be with her friends, she should be 360 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 6: in her kitchen. Just turn off the cameras. This is 361 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 6: not the moment for a pr stunt. This is not 362 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 6: the moment to increase your following on social media. This 363 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 6: is a moment to get real. And I fear she's 364 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 6: not doing that. 365 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 3: I don't think this is going to be one's an 366 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 3: angel and one's a devil. You can be a sex 367 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: predator but also not be guilty of predating on two victims. 368 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: This case is riddled with problems. That doesn't mean it 369 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: didn't happen. Karen start joining us trauma expert, forensic psychologist. 370 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 2: What is denial? 371 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 9: It's actually the kind of thing that she is doing 372 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 9: right now. She is doubling down and letting people know 373 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 9: that nothing happened. She's great She's the Little House on 374 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 9: the ravery wonderful America's sweetheart, and yet all of this 375 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 9: is going on around her. We know about it, it's 376 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 9: in the social media, the news, and she is not 377 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 9: even acknowledging it. She's acting as though nothing has happened. 378 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 9: And that's a great example of denial, where you are 379 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 9: not paying attention to something that's happening, and it's so 380 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 9: evident to people who are watching. 381 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 2: You know, Josh Cole's rude. 382 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: I know you're going to disagree with me on this, 383 00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: but charges can be made given the right thing, acts 384 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: for aiding and a betting. And I never dreamed of 385 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: a day when I was watching Laura Ingalls Wilder on 386 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: Little House getting ready to go try a murder case, 387 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: psyching myself up, that one day I would put the 388 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: name Melissa Gilbert in the same sentence as aiding and 389 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: a betting Chamla Station. And I can tell you this, 390 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: if this ever does go to a jury, the state's 391 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: gonna have hul pinning that on her, because it's like 392 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: trying to convict Doris Day for Pete's sake. 393 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 6: It just. 394 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 3: No. 395 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 2: Everything screams no. 396 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: But aiding and a betting takes under the law, takes 397 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: into account the jury can look at behavior. 398 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: Before, during, and after the incident. 399 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: If she ate it and abetted him in grooming these boys, 400 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: she said, a whole heap of trouble, providing it's all true, 401 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: providing the state can overcome the boys denial, and the 402 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: reason there should be concern amongst the defense camp tonight 403 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: is more alleged victims are coming out, including victims connected 404 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: to Julia Robberts. 405 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: You know, pretty woman, She's. 406 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: Never had a scandal in her life. She's gold right, 407 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: she's pristine. So what I'm saying is it's not just 408 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: the two boys that when they're little they recan't. I've 409 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: had child molestation victims recan't because mommy asks them to, 410 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: because mommy is getting paid by the molester. It's happened. 411 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: So it's not just those two little boys anymore. It's 412 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: lots of girls, lots of young women, other people coming forward. 413 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 2: So am I not supposed to believe. 414 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: All of them and only believe Melissa? So what would 415 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: an aiding and abetting charge entel because she needs a 416 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: lawyer tonight, Coles rude? 417 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 8: Well, you know, charges honestly could be barely brought against 418 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 8: her husband, let alone in betting charge against her. So 419 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 8: aiding in a betting requires that a suspect be aware 420 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 8: that a crime has been committed, or is going to 421 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 8: be committed, or is currently being and that they give 422 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 8: the person aid or comfort, they assist them in committing 423 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 8: the crime, or after the fact as well, they help 424 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 8: hide the crime, or they give comfort to the person 425 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 8: who committed the crime. But here there is absolutely no 426 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 8: evidence that this lady knew of anything. Not only that, but. 427 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: It's not that you were aware of the crime, should 428 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: have been aware of the crime. That's like you and 429 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: I get in the car and we drive over the 430 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: mix K border and I go, what I thought that 431 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: was confectionate sugar in all those bags in the trunk. 432 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: It's cocaine. Are you serious? 433 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 2: No? No, and no. 434 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: That's not the way the law works. Ignorance of the facts, 435 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: for the law is not going to be a defense. 436 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 1: If she should have known molestation was happening, that's the standard. 437 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: Not if she chose again to stick her head in 438 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: the sand and her rear in the air. 439 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 8: But it's not just that, Nancy, it's that she knew, 440 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 8: should have known and provided aid and comfort that helped 441 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 8: facilitate the crime. It's one thing to should have known, 442 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 8: but that doesn't require her to do anything unless she 443 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 8: is bringing children to her husband for the purpose of, 444 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 8: you know, sexually assaulting them. There's aiding and betting just 445 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 8: isn't going to happen. Not only that, but in this case, 446 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 8: the touching allegedly occurred on set. You know where was 447 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 8: she during this time? Was she bringing the children there? No, 448 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 8: it was her parents. It was a kid's parents were 449 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 8: telling the children to hug everybody on the set, you know, 450 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 8: the parents who are fraudsters telling their their little kids 451 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 8: to go hug all of the adults, especially Tim, the 452 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 8: suspect in this case. And I'll tell you what is suspect. 453 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 8: The entire case is suspect, which is the entire reason 454 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 8: why the judge released Tim Bansfield or bus Field. He 455 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 8: said that the Tim Busfield was not a danger to 456 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 8: the community and he was not a substantial flight risk 457 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 8: as well. That is sick put him up. 458 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, did I'm not say at 459 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: the beginning, I don't have a dog in the fight here. 460 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 2: I don't know what the truth is. 461 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm trying to find out the truth and right now 462 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: trying to find out what, if anything den Melissa Gilbert 463 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: and when did she know it? Again, I heard the recantation, 464 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: I heard what the boy said. 465 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 2: It's damning for the state. 466 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: Yet I also know Colsrud that other alleged victims are 467 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: coming forward. 468 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: And there's a whole. 469 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: Nother issue is if all of these allegations are faults, 470 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: why isn't bus Fill counter suing for defamation. Somebody jumped 471 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 1: up and said I ate it in a bed, or 472 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: I molested someone. Oh yeah, they're going to land in 473 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: court by my own hand and I will sue their 474 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: bridges off. 475 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 8: What there's no correlation from what the other alleged victims 476 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 8: are saying in this case. The other alleged victims are adults, 477 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 8: they're female. There's no modus operandi that is similar those two. 478 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: Because they're female. It didn't happen. They're not saying it 479 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: happened today or yesterday. They're saying it how And in 480 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: years past we have heard a lot about what is 481 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: wrong with the two little boys now grown and they're 482 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: testimony their claims of being these victims. But what about 483 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: other alleged victims. 484 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 3: There was one interview with a makeup artist who said 485 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 3: that everybody kind of watched out for Timothy Busfield because 486 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 3: he had poor boundaries, and she used the word creep. 487 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: In the last hours, more claims against Melissa Gilbert's husband, 488 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: Timothy Busfield, who is a star in his own right, 489 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: have emerged, and this time they're the gold standard because 490 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: they're connected to Hollywood royalty, and that. 491 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: Is Julia Roberts, All right, listen. 492 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 7: Julia roberts sister in law, says Busfield is a creep 493 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 7: who sex caressed and humiliated her, saying Busfield is like 494 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 7: a rapist who compulsively and indiscriminately targets women. Eliza Roberts 495 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 7: accusing Busfield nineteen ninety four, Eliza Roberts season article about 496 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 7: a teen girl who worked with Busfield on a movie, 497 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 7: accusing Busfield of eluding harassing behavior. Roberts says she was 498 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 7: stunned to hear it quote because the same thing happened 499 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 7: to me with him. The seventeen year old girl on 500 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,479 Speaker 7: the set of Little Big League says Busfield invited her 501 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 7: to his trailer, gave her alcohol, and propositioned her. Roberts 502 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 7: expressive regrets she did not take action at the time. 503 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 7: Fearing negative publicity, Roberts says, these things mushrooming get very big. 504 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 7: She did not want to be taken away from her children, husband, 505 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 7: or her own career. Assuming her encounter with Busfield was isolated, 506 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 7: Eliza chooses not to say anything, but after reading about 507 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 7: a seventeen year old being done the same way, she 508 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 7: comes forward indignant other women making claims against Busfield were 509 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 7: being called liars. 510 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 2: Crime Stories investigator reporter Dave Matt What happened? 511 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: We're talking about Eliza Roberts now coming out with her 512 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: own story regarding tim with the Busfield. 513 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 4: What happened, Nancy? 514 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 5: This actually is so e plosive when we go back. 515 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 4: To the seventeen year old girl on the set of 516 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 4: Little Big League who made the accusations back then, Busfield 517 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 4: and all of his mouthpieces came out calling her a 518 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 4: liar and anybody who was on her side a liar. 519 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 4: That's when this is the part that really breaks my heart. 520 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 4: Eliza Roberts actually reads in the paper these girls being 521 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 4: called liars after she had experienced Busfield five years earlier, 522 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 4: and in that she said that she ran didn't even 523 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 4: know him. She's an actress, and a casting person, but 524 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 4: she didn't really know him and runs into him at 525 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 4: a bookstore and Busfield chats her up, but he starts 526 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 4: off kind of being a fatherly guy, talking about marriage 527 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 4: and things like that, but. 528 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 5: He moves this conversation into film. This isn't public. 529 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 4: At a bookstore, Roberts says that she just wanted to 530 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 4: get the heck away from him. He says bolder things 531 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 4: that he wants to do with her, that he'd be 532 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 4: great with her, and she gets out in the car. 533 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 4: She's just trying to leave right Busfield, and she's backing up. 534 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 5: She looks out the window and there's Busfield. 535 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,479 Speaker 1: He starts again, Okay, hold on, Dave, Matt, I'm gonna 536 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: spare you listen. 537 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 4: In the parking lot. 538 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 7: Eliza Roberts prepares to back out of the parking space, 539 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 7: turns around and it's shocked to see Busfield is standing 540 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 7: at her car window. Busfield begins speaking to Roberts, being 541 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 7: very graphic vulgar. Busfield tells Roberts, I would really love 542 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 7: to know how you taste. I would like to lick 543 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 7: your blank. Roberts is very upset. Busfield continues talking about 544 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 7: specific sexual acts and how they would be great together. 545 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 7: Roberts finds it difficult to get away. 546 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: Okay, you know what, when I put a witness on 547 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: the stand, I know they're going to get cross examined. 548 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: I have to measure their credibility, their veracity, their truthfulness 549 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: before I put them up there. And I don't care 550 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: what they are. I don't care if they're walking the street. 551 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: I don't care if they have a criminal record. I 552 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: don't care if they're a not a priest or virgin. 553 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: I have to weigh their credibility. And one thing I 554 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: look for is richness in detail. Dave mac does Eliza Roberts. 555 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: Julia roberts sister in law, state that she encounters Buzzfield 556 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: in a bookstore, a children's bookstore, as I recall, he 557 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: approaches her and begins a normal conversation that it quickly. 558 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: Veers off into highly inappropriate. 559 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: She leaves, she's backing out of her parking spot, turns 560 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: around and there he is at her car window and 561 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: says graphic, vulgar comments like I would really love to 562 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: know how you taste. I would like to lick your blank. 563 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: She gets upset and she takes off, and she never 564 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: forgot it is that her statement. 565 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 4: Dave mac yes, and it even goes a tad furthered inan. 566 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 4: When she pulls out of the parking lot, Busfield follows her. Nancy, 567 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 4: she drives several blocks away to a car wash, and 568 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 4: he's still right there with her and continuing to say filthy, 569 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 4: vulgar things to her. 570 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 5: She could not shake this guy. 571 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: Okay, it's not just that. 572 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: And again she would have to take the stand and 573 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: be subjected to cross examination. I don't know what's going 574 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: to happen when a story fall apart. 575 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 2: Don't know. 576 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: And there's the issue why she's coming forward now, she says, 577 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: and others say as well that it want to blow 578 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: up their career. 579 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 2: At the time. But it's not just her. There is 580 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: a Minnesota case. Listen. 581 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 7: The Minnesota case and the sworn statements filed as part 582 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 7: of it are not the only allegations to have resurfaced 583 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 7: in recent weeks. In addition, it has emerged that a 584 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 7: sixteen year old girl in Sacramento accused Busfield of groping 585 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 7: her in two thousand and one at a theater in 586 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 7: the city he co founded. In that instance, the accuser 587 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 7: says Busfield kissed her put his hands down her pants 588 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 7: and touched her privates. The incident was not reported to police. 589 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 7: After Busfield begged and pleaded with the family, the girl's father, 590 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 7: a therapist agrees to not file charges if Busfield receives therapy. 591 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: Josh Coles, rude, take off your defense hat. Just for 592 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: a moment, I know that the case in chief regarding 593 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: the two boys can be attacked. 594 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 2: I played their recantation. 595 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: Recantations are not unusual in cases of child molestation, but 596 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: yet there it is, and it was powerful enough for 597 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: the trial judge to allow Busfield to walk r released 598 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: on its own recognissance, no bond necessary. 599 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: A jury may feel the same way. 600 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: But now there are more and more people alleged victims 601 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: coming out. 602 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 2: What do you make of it? So just be honest, 603 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 2: don't argue with me. I'm trying to get to the truth. 604 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 8: So that judges are going to look at similarities. They 605 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 8: need to look at what the new allegations are against 606 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,240 Speaker 8: the women and how similar they are to the allegations 607 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 8: at hand. If they are not, if they're not against 608 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 8: the same age group, if they weren't similar in how 609 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 8: they were conducted, and if they weren't similar in remoteness 610 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 8: some time, they're not coming in as evidence in the 611 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 8: jury will never hear them. 612 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: Dave Mac joining me, Dave Mac, isn't it true that 613 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: the hospital employees that interviewed the two little boys at 614 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: the time they did a child abase response team interview. 615 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: What were their findings at the time, Regardless of their recantation. 616 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 4: They believed that both boys had been groomed and assaulted. 617 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: You're telling me hospital employees stated that they interviewed the 618 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,719 Speaker 1: boys and thought the boys had been assaulted. 619 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 4: Yes, they felt like they had been groomed and sexually assaulted. 620 00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 5: Yes. 621 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: Well, at this hour, we know that following Busfield's release 622 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: on ror release on own recognaissance, he lived it up 623 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: in a very very expensive Airbnb. 624 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 7: Busfield trades the orange jumpsuit and all in one metal 625 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 7: toilet sink of County for pampered, swanky Italian style mansion Airbnb, 626 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 7: costing two four hundred and eighty three dollars. The private 627 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 7: hot tub a bit nicer than watching your back in 628 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 7: the jailhouse shower. The house has a spectacular stained glass 629 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 7: dome and comfy beds with high quality linens. No cold 630 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 7: coffee and still toasted. This incredible hideaway in the ABQ. 631 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: Guys, what is the truth, Who's telling the truth? More 632 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: victims coming for more allegend victims. We've got a recantation 633 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 1: of the boy victims. What if anything, do Melissa Gilbert know? 634 00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 2: And when we wait as justice unfolds. 635 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: And now we were member an American hero, CEO Helen Smith, 636 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: North Carolina Department Public Safety, killed in the line of 637 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: duty after three year service, leaving behind a husband turned 638 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: widow and two children without a mother. American hero CEO 639 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: Helen Smith. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend.