WEBVTT - A Path Forward for New York City in the Migrant Crisis? 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.240 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:13.160 Never in my life have I had a problem that 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:14.520 I did not see an ended. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.040 Two I don't see an ending to this. 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:21.000 New York City Mayor Eric Adams didn't mince words when 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.480 describing the crisis the city is facing because of the 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:29.040 more than one hundred thousand asylum seekers. The Adams administration 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.240 estimates that ten thousand asylum seekers are arriving each month 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:36.199 bust in from Texas and that it will cost the 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.920 city about twelve billion dollars over the next three years. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.880 This issue will destroy New York City. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.240 My guest is Leon Fresco, a partner at hollanden Knight. 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.280 He was the former head of the Justice Department's Office 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:55.120 of Immigration Litigation during the Obama administration. Leonn Adams says 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.840 the lack of support from the federal government is alarming. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.920 He's reached out to the Biden administration. The bidy administration 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:07.160 has criticized what he's done, saying there's no exit strategy. 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.040 Why isn't the Biden administration stepping in to help out 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:11.840 in New York City? 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.800 This is a fascinating question, and this is where I 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:21.680 think there's been a major lack of congruent in some 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.440 things that's happened, and it's not really explainable, which is this, 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:30.000 Eric Adams has a problem with people arriving in New 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.679 York with no plan for what they're going to do, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.080 and that problem isn't supposed to exist in the immigration 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.800 law in this sense. Technically, technically, there's a lot of 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.160 debate about whether you can even be led even to 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.160 the interior of the United States. Fund we can have 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.080 that debate. There's a lot of people who say, no, no, no, 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.480 you have to either be debained or made to way 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.440 to Mexico. You shouldn't be allowed in the interior. Well, 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.280 the Supreme Court I said that's permitted, so fine, people 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.400 are allowed in the interior. But there's another important points 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.559 to be made here, which is that Ice, even under 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.640 the Obama administration, used to have a policy that said, 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.720 if you don't have anywhere to go, you're going to 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.520 be a nice detention. And I don't know where that 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.800 ended up suddenly being swept under the carpet or being 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.280 eroded in the water. I don't know where that happened. 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.360 But I do think Eric Adams has an argument to make, 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.280 other than the fact that people don't like people being 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.440 placed in ice custody, that if you come to America 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.919 and you have no plan of any human being who 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:38.440 will care for you while you're here, a friend, a cousin, 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:43.679 an uncle, a grandparent, somebody who knows you, then yes, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.160 you have to be places into ice custody. You can't 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.800 be in a hotel or on the street or something 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.760 of this nature. That's never what's supposed to happen. The 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.160 whole point of ICE releasing people from their custody was 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.720 because they had someone who is going to make sure 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.919 that these individuals would attend their court proceeding and would 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.640 move on to the next steps of their taste, not 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.840 that you would need city housing or you might sleep 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:14.800 on the street or something of this nature. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.560 These migrants being shipped to New York City are here legally, right. 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.760 What happens is they come to the borders, they are 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.600 placed into expedited removal proceedings, meaning that you arived here, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.480 why are you here? And they say, I don't have 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.360 a reason to be here other than I'm asking for asylum, 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.400 So then they get places to expedite the removal proceeding 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.920 They are then told the only way you can say 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.760 if you're asking for asylum is you have to establish 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.680 a credible fear that you will be persecuted on the 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.960 basis of your race, religion, national origin, political opinion, or 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:51.920 social group. They then meet this criteria, and when they 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:56.000 meet this criteria, they are then released from detension and 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.520 they are just put into the state of Texas, whereby 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:03.119 now what the new rental is. Greg Abbotson takes these 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.280 people upon relief from detension and puts them on a 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.200 bus and sends them to New York or Chicago or 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.200 Los Angeles and Philadelphia. That's the final rental. The previous 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.320 state of affairs was they just the door opens of 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.440 the detention facility and they're just sucked in Texas, and 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.480 that's what Texas said, Well, we don't want any more 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.520 of that. But now the door opens of the facility 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.200 and they are placed on a bus to some other locations. 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.400 And the point is they're supposed to attend their trial 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.400 quote unquote about whether they will win a fium or not. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.640 But the point was, I just was never supposed to 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.120 release you from the tension if you didn't actually have 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.520 a plan of action. Of where you would say if 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.760 you were released from detension, and for some reason that 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:54.680 appears to have changed, and that I think is creating 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.240 a consequence that's completely different than anything we've seen before, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:01.599 because the bear minimum of what used to happen with 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.880 migration into the United States if people have some sort 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.200 of plan of who they would stay with when they 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.520 arrived here. And it appears that for whatever reason, that 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.440 has broken down. And I do think to the extent 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.440 of a message is spend, don't come here unless you 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.160 have some plan, because otherwise you'll be placed in nice destension. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.839 I do think that's a youthful Venturer's. 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.799 Defensive in your view, What has Adams done wrong? 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.480 Well, there's a couple of things. Number One, you have 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:34.000 to figure out when people are arriving in your city logistically, 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.320 person of all, and there are some cities. LA County's 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.400 doing this in an amazing passion. They're really handling this 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.720 with ease. When you compare this to New York. You 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:44.840 first have to figure out is there some place that 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.560 you can go to? And if you can go to 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.000 that location, it's much cheaper, even if it's an uber 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.400 ride of one hundred dollars put them in an uber 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.120 for one hundred dollars and send them there. Then have 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.480 them in a shelter or a hotel. That part logistically 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.680 has not been handled very well. So that's the first 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.280 that is identifying are there places people can be sent 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.640 to immediately send them there. I understand that that's the 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.599 drain on the city's resources, but it's a larger drain 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.120 to have shelters at hotels and things of the nagers. 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:25.239 That's number one. Then number two, if people are coming 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.920 to New York and they have no plan of any 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:30.479 kind of where they want to go, so that there's 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.760 nowhere you can transport them to, then that's where what 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:35.800 New York has to do is starts to work with 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.160 ICE in that situation. Because the problem is there's a 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.400 government statue, it's not even a regulations, the statutes that 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.200 says if you apply for asylum, you cannot work for 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.040 one hundred and eighty days. Your case has to be 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.279 tending for at least one hundred and eighty days before 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.480 you can work. And so for those one hundred and 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.760 eighty days, are you really going to be seeing people 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.440 in hotels? The whole point of this one hundred and 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.640 eighty day asylum rule was to prevent what was called 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.560 a magnet where people would come to the US to work. 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.600 But imagine if the magnet now is not only you 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.280 can't work, but you're in a hotel for one hundred 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.800 and eighty days. Well, that's the reverse effect of the 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.800 whole purpose of not letting people work in the first place. Now, 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.600 the problem Adams has is by the administration cannot change 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.920 a statue, and so they're stuck. Everybody's stuck here. Nobody 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.240 can work when they first come to the United States. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.080 And so this is why the solution needs to be 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.800 one much more year towards sending the message to people 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.200 that it will not be tolerated. That people simply come 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.880 here and expect to stay in a hotel. That's not 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.200 going to be something that's tolerated. People will have to 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.760 be an immigration detention unless they have a sponsor that's 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.480 willing to take care of it. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.280 They tried sending leaflets to Texas basically you're not welcome 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:58.160 in New York City. 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.040 That didn't work. Apparently, what should he do? 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:02.560 Right? 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.880 He needs students, coordinate with a Department of Homeland Security 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.600 and get them to be much more active in Texas 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.520 to say to people, do you have a plan and 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.840 a sponsor for remaining in the United States, And if 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.360 they say no, then instead of putting them outside of 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.680 the facility where Texas can then place them on a 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.480 bus and take them to New York, those people get 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.320 placed into ice attention until they can get a work permit, 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.720 and then with the work permit they can be released 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.560 and they can work and pay for themselves. But there 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:36.959 should not be a scenario where people get to be 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:43.000 released from immigration custody in Texas unless they have a 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.240 US sponsor that's willing to take them. And I think 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.599 that's the policy thing that Eric Adams probably needs to 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.800 advocate for now. Whether he does that publicly where he 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:57.880 would get criticism from the immigration advocates or privately doesn't matter. 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.720 But I think that's the only thing that will bring 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.480 temporary release to New York. I don't think billions of 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.400 dollars to New York is fixing anything in terms of 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.800 the larger situation, because I think you have to come 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.000 back this new issue. This is not a long existing phenomenon. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.280 This is a relatively new issue of people coming to 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:24.160 the United States with absolutely nobody that they know of 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.079 any kind saying that they expect to be housed in 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.760 some hotel or facility. That's something completely new, and so 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.280 the government needs to address this so that this doesn't 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.679 become a long standing phenomena. 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.320 Is this helping Texas sending all these people up here? 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.520 From Texas's perspective, this is getting everybody an equal skin 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.199 in the game, so that pressure gets placed on the 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.240 Body administration to adopt the remain in Mexico policy that 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:57.240 Trump has. That's essentially the endgame for Texas is if 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.640 you can then get Eric Odams of set In, the 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.560 mayor of Los Angeles and the mayor of Philadelphia at 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.120 the mayor of Chicago, and they all drew a bider 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.320 and say we give up, do something, and then Biden 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:12.839 has to do remain in Mexico. Then, from Texas's perspective, okay, 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.800 that's a big please, but is not going to happen. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.520 I don't know, but certainly to the extense, that's the 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.600 solution that the cities are offering is give us billions 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.280 of dollars to put people in hotels. I don't know 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.520 that that's the best solution. I think you have to 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.400 put more onus on people coming here to the United 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.680 States to find their own housing solutions, and if they're 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.559 unwilling or unable to find their own housing solutions. That 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.480 was the entire reason the concept of immigration's attention was created. 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.360 Len I want to turn down to DOCA. For the 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.640 second time, a Texas federal judge has declared DOCA illegal. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:54.800 It's a blow to the Biden administration, which issued regulations 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.559 to codify DACA in an effort to preserve the legality 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:02.480 of the program, which the young immigrants known as Dreamers 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:06.920 from deportation, but Texas and eight other Republican led states 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:11.080 continued to challenge DOCA in court. The issue will likely 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.439 be decided by the Supreme Court, the third time the 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.920 program's fate will be before the Court. 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:18.600 Seems like we've. 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.599 Been hearing about DOCA and court rulings for years and 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:27.040 years since it was first launched. Why so many hearings, 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:28.160 Why no resolution? 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.319 Well, this case has gone through several stages, and so 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.719 what happened and this might actually be something that the 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.560 Supreme Court touches upon even when it ends up finally 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:43.560 reviewing DACA is that for many years, the DOCCA program 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.199 itself was actually not challenged by the State of Texas. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.640 The State of Texas only got involved in challenging things 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.600 when there was a second program at the very end 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.240 of the Obama administration called da FAV which would have 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.880 given legal stitus to the parents of undocta ment to children, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.080 and that would have been about a four million person 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.720 legal status program. That's when the State of Texas gets 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.800 involved and they end up in joining the program. The 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.679 Obama administration ends, that's the end of it, and then 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.880 the question happens, well, what about dot CO, And this 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.880 is where Jeff Session and the Trump administration tries to 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:26.040 get the State of Texas to SEO to actually eliminate 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.560 doc CO, because the State of Texas actually wasn't interested 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:32.839 in eliminating DOCA because of the sympathetic nature of the 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:36.400 population and a lot of the problems that DOCTA faults. 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:40.160 But nevertheless, Attorney General Jet Sessions that's design convinces the 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:44.040 State of Texas to su and the Attorney General Jet 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:47.559 Sessions also tries to eliminate DACA on his own. The 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.560 Supreme Court says that the way he did it was illegal, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.520 so it gets kicked back to the Department of Homeland Security. 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.560 In the meantime, this lawsuit then restarts because they were 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.959 waiting for the report to do their decision on what 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:08.439 Jeff Sessions had done. And this lawsuit restarts. But the 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:12.000 Trump administration then ends, which brings in the body of 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.880 the Administration, which brings in a new DOCTA rule. And 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:21.480 so now we're finally in September fourteen, twenty twenty three, 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.559 at the culmination of all of this, where we're now 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.120 at a direct shot to the Supreme Court about the 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:33.080 final choices nobody has ever analyzed, which is it DOCA 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.000 legal tell us. 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:40.640 About these Homeland Security Department regulations that the Buying administration 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.240 issued last year. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.960 Sure, so here's the issue. So when DOCA was announced 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:51.000 originally in twenty twelve, it was done by a memo. 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.800 It was not a big long government regulation where there's 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.280 a notice of proposed rulemaking, there are sixty days of comment, 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.360 there's a lot of analysis. It wasn't done that way. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.920 It was done as a memo, and that memo nobody 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.600 bothered it for many years. But then the Obama administration 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.400 did something called DAPA, which is what I just talked about, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.520 and they did that by a memo also, and so 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.719 in the state of Texas food they said, hey, you 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.400 didn't do this by notice in comment rulemaking, and the 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.360 courts agreed, and that was the main reason that the 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.560 DAPPA program failed. So the idea was, well, if DAPPA 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.600 and DACA are essentially the same programs, just yeared toward 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.800 different people, then this needed to also be done by 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.520 a rule which had notice in comment rulemaking. And so 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:41.760 the Biden administration fixes this argument. So now there is 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.680 no more of an argument that DOACA is illegal because 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.720 there was no regulation with notice in comment rulemaking, because 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.600 in fact, there was a regulation issued by the Biden 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:58.600 administration on October thirty first, twenty twenty two, with notice 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.800 and comment and all the official rulemaking. But the question 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.760 then became for the court, well is that regulation doing 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.920 something but legal? And years where the Court comes down 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.680 and says, no, this regulation is not doing something that's legal, 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:18.680 because you cannot create a program for people who don't 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:23.040 have status and give them status, especially authorizations at work. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.000 And so that's the issue that's left to be decided 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:28.080 by the Supreme Court. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.680 The judge said the creation adoption of the final rule 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.760 took no steps to avoid any of the substantive pitfalls 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.880 that have been pointed out, perhaps because DHS did not 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.120 want to or perhaps because it was not possible to 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.480 do so and retain the DOCA program as currently constituted. 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.920 Do you think that either of those is true? 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.160 Well, I think it actually is true in the sense 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.920 that there are two parts to the backup program. The 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.680 first part is having a set of criteria for people 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.920 who cannot be deported, and that part is very important, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.480 but it's not the only part, and it's not a 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.640 program that people would be happy with if that was 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.080 all that was led. So there's a second step to 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.080 the program, which is saying, once we've designated this group 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.240 that cannot be deported, this group also can work while 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:20.920 they're here legally in the United States. And so this 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.240 is the part that jo Jaanen really takes with saying, look, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.720 you never get around the thing that these people can't work, 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.760 and so the fact that they can work is the 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:35.560 main problem I had with the program, and this is 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.640 what doesn't get fixed in the regulation. Nor is it 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.280 fair to say that DASS would want a program where 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:46.760 those pumps cannot work, because the whole sort of brilliance 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.520 of the doctor program visa VI that people in it 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.240 is that they can live a normal life. They have 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.120 this work permit. This work permit allows them to get 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.800 a driver's life, It allows them to get a Social 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.960 Security number, It allows them to get a bank account, 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.720 allows them to go to school, it allows them to work. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.520 And so if you took away that and just said 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.879 this is a program of non deportation, it seems us 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.680 to be DACA as the docas young people know it 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:13.800 and experience it. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.480 It. We've talked before about the executive branch and immigration. 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.199 Isn't this an executive branch function? 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.879 So that's what the court is going to have to decide. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.040 They're going to have to decide to do components of it. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.280 The first component, can you pick a group not to deport? 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.920 The Supreme Court has basically already decided this issue last 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.639 year in a case called Biden versus Texas about the 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.119 prosecutorial discretion guideline, where the Court said the State of 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:44.440 Texas doesn't have standing to look at these prosecutorial discretion guidelines. 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.560 And so that first part of DACA looks very very safe. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:53.200 The second part about whether the people who are subjective 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.680 to non prosecution can then be given the ability to 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.600 work in the United States. That's really what the Court 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.440 is going to be looking at here, And so that's 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.480 just going to come down to one of two statues, 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.639 picking which one do you like. Do you like the 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:14.680 statue that says that if someone is undocumented, there's no 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.840 choice that the administration has other than encountering them and 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.639 removing them from the United States, Or do you like 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:25.560 the statutes that says that the Secretary of Homeland Security 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:30.840 has regulatory authorities for anyone work in the United States, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:36.399 which would presumably include these young people. So that's the 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:38.960 choice the Supreme Court's going to have to make, is 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.920 which of those statues actually makes more sense in this 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:48.080 fact pattern. Can the Secretary of Homeland Security take a 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.680 slice of undocumented people and actually just out of thin 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.320 air or in this case of regulation, but nevertheless thin 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.359 air makes them legal enough so to seek they can 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:01.679 work in the United States. 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.520 Is the Supreme Court likely to take this case? 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.520 They don't have to take the case, but then that 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:13.119 would leave a nationwide injunction on new DOCA cases that 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.239 will be in place. Now what's fascinating is if they 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.680 then don't end up taking the case at all, then 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.960 that nationwide injunction expands to ending the program entirely, so 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:28.040 they can't be crafty and just say, well, we can 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.400 not take the case, and then only new cases won't 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.920 get taken. The way Judge Haynen's injunction is written is 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.960 until the Supreme Court does something, we will allow all 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.640 the people in the existing program to remain and keep 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.840 renewing their status, but we won't let any new people in. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:47.480 But if the Supreme Court doesn't do anything, then the 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:52.480 nationwide injunction becomes permanent and doesn't allow anybody to even 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.440 renew their status. So whenever somebody's status expires, that's it 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.160 can't be renewed, and the DACA program ends gradually over 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:01.120 a course of years. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.040 That Supreme Court case last year involving Texas that you 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.960 were talking about was kind of a surprise coming from 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.399 this Supreme Court. Do you have any inkling about the 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:13.200 Justice's feelings toward DACA. 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.000 Well, I mean, at the end of the day, we 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.800 know that there are three justices that are not going 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.240 to be on board in any way, shape or forb 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.760 with the program continuing, which is Alito, Thomas, and Gorss. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.400 We know that from the prior cases. What we don't 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.560 know is Amy, Tony Barrett, and Tavanaughkavanaugh was trying to 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:39.280 read some compromise in the prior daca's decision, and by 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.040 the way, Roberts contains his mind also, so we don't know. 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.200 I mean, Roberts was pro keeping DACA the last time 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.680 around when the Trump administration tries to eliminate it. But 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.320 the real swing boat is going to be Tony Bears. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.080 She has not opigned yet on where she is in DAKA, 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.160 and so maybe she will be sympathetic towards this group 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.200 and want to keep it in place. Some compromise will 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.680 be reached. What I'm hoping for where they miraculously say, hey, 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.520 look why did Texas state six years to file a 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.800 lawsuit on this, so many reliance interests came in place. 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.480 They don't get the right to food anymore, which is 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.480 what happened, And I would love for that to be 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.639 the decision here, because Texas originally didn't care about DACA 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:22.760 for so long and only came in when Jeff Sessions 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.520 forced them food. So to me, from that perspective, that 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.600 would be a wonderful way to end this. But it's 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:31.880 hard to know. Where she will ultimately come out. 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.920 Do the States even have standing to challenge. 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.639 DOC that's going to be enough. That's going to be 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.240 another question, because they don't have standing to challenge the 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:45.960 first part of DOCA, which is the prosecutorial decision not 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.080 to support a certain category that's already been decided. What 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.480 Ben Hainan says in this case, and he's correct, is 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.080 that in that decision by the Supreme Court, they specifically 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.520 exented programs that look like DOC not for saying that 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.600 there is standing, just for saying we don't know if 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:09.120 they're standing, get back to us on this. So that's 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.920 where we are right now. And then they literally use 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.800 the words, you know, we do not opign on whether 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:16.879 we have standing on a case where there's not just 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:22.480 proscutorial discression but prosecutorial discression plus the provision of benefits, 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:25.920 which is what happens here. And so that's not a 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.560 yes or no that they check with us later. And 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.680 so J Jayne says, well, that check with us later 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.520 means that there is standing and so we'll see, we'll 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:37.040 see if the Supreme Court agrees with. 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:40.320 That or I mean, should Congress be the one to 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:44.720 provide permanent protections to DACA recipients. 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.440 Well, for sure, that's the only way to actually provide 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:52.040 a country legal status that can't be taken away and 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.159 brought back and taken away and brought back. Absolutely, is 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.800 that going to happen anytime in the near future. Not, 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:01.320 Given what we're seeing on the border, and given what 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.880 that means for how Republicans ammigrates an issue, I find 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:06.879