Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in
Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working
Speaker 1: in the media business. Today, I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety.
Speaker 1: I'll start this week with a confession. In fact, two
Speaker 1: of them, one related to the other. The first, I,
Speaker 1: as a child was a big fan of the World
Speaker 1: Wrestling Federation from Hulk Ogan on down. The second, I
Speaker 1: had no idea For the first few years I followed
Speaker 1: it at this um sport was totally fake, every move
Speaker 1: in and outside the ring, completely scripted. Hey, I never
Speaker 1: said it was a genius. Today I'm going to talk
Speaker 1: to Brian Gowartz, one of the people who did that
Speaker 1: script thing and wrote about his experience in his new book.
Speaker 1: He also has a new documentary series about wrestling's early
Speaker 1: days on Vice TV. We'll be back with Brian in
Speaker 1: just a minute. And we're back with Brian, author of
Speaker 1: the new book There's just One Problem. True Tales from
Speaker 1: the former one time seventh most powerful person in w
Speaker 1: w E. Thanks for coming on, Brian, Andrew, thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. So I suppose we should start
Speaker 1: with an explanation of what it even means to script
Speaker 1: something like wrestling, because I think that's a little subject
Speaker 1: to interpretation. Are you suggesting each in every move? Are
Speaker 1: you suggesting each and every word? I would imagine there's
Speaker 1: a lot of improvisation. Yeah, there's many different facets you know,
Speaker 1: to writing wrestling, and the writers themselves, um, don't have
Speaker 1: the qualifications to write, you know, the moves per se. Um.
Speaker 1: The wrestlers largely themselves are the ones who who put
Speaker 1: the matches together. They work with former wrestlers called producers. Um.
Speaker 1: When it comes to the television shows and some of
Speaker 1: the live events, what we do is writers, well we
Speaker 1: would um you know, write the storylines that lead up
Speaker 1: to the matches and propose what the matches are, and
Speaker 1: propose who as they stay in wrestling, goes over in
Speaker 1: the match, which is to win or to lose? Um.
Speaker 1: And then you know that there are separate people who
Speaker 1: actually you know, construct what is going to happen within
Speaker 1: the ropes. You know, well, will make a suggestion as
Speaker 1: far as like when this person will interfere and it
Speaker 1: will lead to something next week. UM. But that's you
Speaker 1: know the extent of the in ring action where dangerously
Speaker 1: unqualified you know to uh to actually suggest what happens physically,
Speaker 1: especially because the wrestlers themselves, it's like, yes, it's predetermined
Speaker 1: and it's scripted, um, but the actual you know, there's
Speaker 1: major physicality that's involved and injuries that occur, uh and
Speaker 1: everything else. So that it's it's really important to have
Speaker 1: people who know they're doing, you know, putting that stuff together.
Speaker 1: But the actual storylines and you know, the the in
Speaker 1: ring promos as that we're in terms of like what
Speaker 1: the wrestlers are saying to each other, that's very collaborative
Speaker 1: as well. But that's where the writers really you know,
Speaker 1: have much more involvement in terms of what that is
Speaker 1: and working with the wrestlers and working with you know,
Speaker 1: and during my tenure Vince McMahon as it would be
Speaker 1: now Triple H Paul evac um in terms of what
Speaker 1: gets approved and everything else. Um. So there's yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's backstage stuff. There's stuff that takes place outside of
Speaker 1: the arena, um, you know, right, So there's there's lots
Speaker 1: of different aspects to it. Um. You know, so that
Speaker 1: I really even realized. We'll get to Vincent in just
Speaker 1: a minute, because I'm certainly interested in hearing your opinion
Speaker 1: on where this league is at today. It's certainly an
Speaker 1: interesting time. But still want to know some more about
Speaker 1: the creative process here. What goes into being a great
Speaker 1: creative in the wrestling world. Would imagine it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: the same thing as writing for a sitcom or a
Speaker 1: talk show. And you've done that kind of stuff as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I always you know, my my uncle, Howard
Speaker 1: gowertz Um was a longtime successful show runner and executive producer.
Speaker 1: He wrote on shows like Taxi and Wings and Larry Sanders. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's what I wanted to do, you know, ever
Speaker 1: since I saw you know his name in the credits
Speaker 1: watching Taxi as a kid. Um. So I you know,
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to to have written on a
Speaker 1: few sitcoms prior to w w E and w w E. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a completely different animal. There's some similarities. Um, it's
Speaker 1: actually evolved to have more similarities. When I first started,
Speaker 1: and there was not many similarities because it was very
Speaker 1: run and gun. We'd be writing Tuesday morning, we'd be
Speaker 1: writing the show that would take place Tuesday afternoon. Um,
Speaker 1: from scratch. Now it's much more prepared ahead of time,
Speaker 1: but nothing like the sitcom world, you know, like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm here in Memphis season three of Young Rock, And
Speaker 1: you know, these like like any other single cam sitcom,
Speaker 1: you know, the scripts are written, that rewritten, their several drafts.
Speaker 1: There's meetings with NBC getting and Universal getting notes and everything, um,
Speaker 1: and you're shooting individual scenes over the course of the week,
Speaker 1: whereas in w W E, you know, you're preparing during
Speaker 1: the week, but basically the show goes on because it's
Speaker 1: eight o'clock on Monday, not necessarily because it's ready or
Speaker 1: completely you know, prepared, but you gotta do it because
Speaker 1: you're on live television three hours and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, scrambling day of It's it's very it's
Speaker 1: it's friends. It's it's frantic, but it's also the word friends.
Speaker 1: It's it's very uh, it's it's very like adrenaline fueled.
Speaker 1: You know. There's there's just a special magic, especially for
Speaker 1: the performers, because they have the added bonus that that
Speaker 1: really no one else in scripted television does of performing
Speaker 1: not for a studio audience of a few hundred, but
Speaker 1: of several thousand um and on pay per views that
Speaker 1: could exceed over fifty thousand. Sometimes people who will and
Speaker 1: we're not necessarily, like you know, conditioned to like it,
Speaker 1: just because they're there that they don't like it, they'll
Speaker 1: let you know, um. And you know it's it's just
Speaker 1: very very um exciting. And when you're feeding off of
Speaker 1: that um, it kind of fuels you to the next
Speaker 1: show you wanna, you want to top yourself. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: really capture that vibe in your book, which was such
Speaker 1: a fun read. And you know, the funny thing is
Speaker 1: the thing that I was struck by reading your book
Speaker 1: was I could have been you. What I mean that
Speaker 1: I too was a small Jewish kid growing up on
Speaker 1: Long Island who grew up loving what was then known
Speaker 1: as the WWF and it's eighties heyday from the first
Speaker 1: Wrestlmania to Saturday Night main event. And I know you
Speaker 1: sort of came up following it as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I have this like Pavlovian
Speaker 1: response to hearing the opening notes of remember that song
Speaker 1: Obsession by an Emotion, which which was what kicked off
Speaker 1: Saturday and I made event I hear those opening notes,
Speaker 1: that my adrenaline shoots out of my body because I
Speaker 1: remembered that was the feeling I felt when I was
Speaker 1: about to watch like the most amazing wrestling extravaganza and
Speaker 1: so funny. By the way, it's sorry interrupt Yeah, the
Speaker 1: fact that you said that. So at one point in
Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, Saturdaynite's main event came back, um
Speaker 1: or made like there was some version of it that
Speaker 1: came back, and I was so animate about using that song,
Speaker 1: the obsession song by an Emotion um And of course,
Speaker 1: you know, this was mid two thousand's. They didn't want
Speaker 1: to seem you know, the idea of it being retro was,
Speaker 1: you know, being a step back and this is who
Speaker 1: we are now, and let's have some new metal two
Speaker 1: thousand six song as the whatever it was. But I
Speaker 1: ve and went so far as to like, please just
Speaker 1: just prepare and opening, let's just show Vince what it
Speaker 1: would look like. Uh, And of course I think it was.
Speaker 1: Here comes the Boom was the name of the song
Speaker 1: that they used, and it was edited exactly to the
Speaker 1: you know this physicality on the booms. And then when
Speaker 1: the Animotion version, they just put the song over what
Speaker 1: they had already edited, so nothing SYNCD up. It looked
Speaker 1: completely I feel like I'm being sandbag, but I still
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that you know that you love that
Speaker 1: song because I think it's in the whole generation. It
Speaker 1: really does speak to I respect the effort that you made.
Speaker 1: That's that's tremendous. You mentioned Vince we gotta go there
Speaker 1: obviously quite the scandal that we've heard about in recent months,
Speaker 1: which has led to his resignation as the chairman and CEO.
Speaker 1: What is your because you worked with this guy, you
Speaker 1: know him? Well, I'm not, you know, I'm sure you
Speaker 1: can't say you know what you saw if there was
Speaker 1: anything on, you know, in terms of observing what was
Speaker 1: going on. The scandal, I think that sort of happened
Speaker 1: after your time. But can this league function without someone
Speaker 1: so central to what this sport is? Uh? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think the short answer is yes, and and
Speaker 1: they're proving it right now. Um. You know, Vince was
Speaker 1: the he was you know where the buck stopped um
Speaker 1: at w W E. But he also, you know, spouse
Speaker 1: state philosophy of no one person is bigger than the company. Um,
Speaker 1: and that was certainly the case, you know when talent left,
Speaker 1: uh so called Steve Austin retired when the Rock went
Speaker 1: to Hollywood. Ultimately, when John Cena went to Hollywood. Um,
Speaker 1: there's so many you know, great great wrestlers that were
Speaker 1: the focal point of the show that ultimately stopped wrestling.
Speaker 1: And the company went on and it went through peaks
Speaker 1: and valleys, but it still was on the air every
Speaker 1: single week. And from a company in a business standpoint,
Speaker 1: you know, I think Vince always employed the same philosophy
Speaker 1: that like, you know, when he groomed people Triple H,
Speaker 1: Paul avec included um, you know, and his daughter Stephanie McMahon, um,
Speaker 1: and several you know executives as well, to put it
Speaker 1: in and be in a position to succeed. You know.
Speaker 1: My whole reason for being at w w E came
Speaker 1: about because the two writers that were there at the
Speaker 1: time before I started. Um, they you know through and
Speaker 1: they have their reasons and everything, but they left the
Speaker 1: company w w E to go to the rival w CW,
Speaker 1: and that left w w WE with zero writers. Um,
Speaker 1: and that's one of the main reasons why I was hired. Um,
Speaker 1: they needed someone, and they needed someone right now. But
Speaker 1: Vince you know, learned from that. He's like, I'm never
Speaker 1: gonna put myself in a position where like I am
Speaker 1: all of a sudden without a writing staff because one
Speaker 1: or two people decided to leave. Um And I think
Speaker 1: that just general philosophy permeates. So now you have people
Speaker 1: being put in a position um to you know, essentially
Speaker 1: prove their worth when its too all these you know,
Speaker 1: talent relations, creative writing, live events, all these aspects of
Speaker 1: the company that ran through Vince. But he had people
Speaker 1: you know, in in place there. Um And I think
Speaker 1: you know, Paula Veck and Stephanie McMahon um and Nick
Speaker 1: con as well. I mean Paul and Stephanie obviously went
Speaker 1: through the rigors of w w E and that culture.
Speaker 1: It's embedded in their lives. They've been in the company.
Speaker 1: You know, Triple H started wrestling, I believe, um and
Speaker 1: and has always been. He didn't just all of a
Speaker 1: sudden graduate two behind the scenes role after you know,
Speaker 1: Vince stepped down. You know, he had been an executive
Speaker 1: in the company, you know, for years before that. Even
Speaker 1: as a wrestler. He was always in the production meetings
Speaker 1: at television. Um, you know, sitting in the front row, observing, learning,
Speaker 1: you know, absorbing everything. Stephanie too was you know, Vince
Speaker 1: didn't put her in a position of power immediately. She
Speaker 1: interned essentially at the New York sales office. At the
Speaker 1: beginning of her tenure, she followed and tracked Vince backstage
Speaker 1: before she took any sort of position. UM. So I
Speaker 1: think they're well versed and and Nick con of course
Speaker 1: is you know someone who's well raging from C A
Speaker 1: A who now runs the business there. Yeah, and on
Speaker 1: that business side as WWS evolving and needs someone just
Speaker 1: like him who knows these fields so well. And it's
Speaker 1: not in a wrestling bubble as we call it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that that triumphant um. I'm saying
Speaker 1: a lot of words today that I'm not I hope
Speaker 1: these are actual words that they are. UM. I think
Speaker 1: they've been put in a position where it's not like
Speaker 1: Vince is gone and all of a sudden, it's the
Speaker 1: scene from airplanes. Anyone had to fly a plane and
Speaker 1: there's just mass pine waving their arms and screaming. It's
Speaker 1: like they're there put in a position, um to now
Speaker 1: show their worth. And I think know, if there's any
Speaker 1: indication of the past month or two, you know, they're
Speaker 1: doing just that. I wonder though, and I think there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of speculation that has propped up the
Speaker 1: stock that the company may finally get sold. Uh could
Speaker 1: you imagine that happening? Um? Look, anything is is possible,
Speaker 1: you know. UM. And I think you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: know exactly, but I would say when w w E
Speaker 1: Network first started, UM, I had always you know, thought like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is going to be something that w w E
Speaker 1: strongly feels is going to be its own streaming service.
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine if this existing in any form um.
Speaker 1: And it's you know, no one is going to know
Speaker 1: how to do this better than us and all of
Speaker 1: that stuff and all their archival footage and everything else. Um.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, now it's on Peacock
Speaker 1: and it's not its own streaming form anymore. And I
Speaker 1: was just like, huh, I did not see that coming. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think it's kind of like, you know, that's
Speaker 1: a good parallel because they're a business. Um, it's fiercely
Speaker 1: and with much pride, you know, a family owned business,
Speaker 1: even though it's a publicly traded company. But the McMahon's
Speaker 1: obviously own the majority of the stock and everything. UM.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the Vince has always been you know, his philosophy,
Speaker 1: and it trickles on down is Um, there's more than
Speaker 1: one right way to do something, and you know, if
Speaker 1: an opportunity comes along, they'll always do. It's funny because
Speaker 1: Triple h And and Stephanie McMahon as television characters, they
Speaker 1: got a lot of heat as authority authority figures by
Speaker 1: saying we're gonna do what's best for business, and on
Speaker 1: television that translated to putting the good guys, the baby
Speaker 1: faces and precarious positions. Um, but it's best for business.
Speaker 1: But now it actually is paralleling in real life. Um,
Speaker 1: they'll do what's best for business. And whether that means
Speaker 1: one day selling the company, that could be, whether it
Speaker 1: means keeping the company forever and evolving. You know, with
Speaker 1: the times, I could easily see that too. We'll be
Speaker 1: back in just a moment with more with Brian Gwertz.
Speaker 1: Stick around. We're back with Brian Gowertz, author of the
Speaker 1: new book There's Just One Problem, True tales from the
Speaker 1: former one time seventh most powerful person in the w
Speaker 1: w E. So, Brian, you have since left the w
Speaker 1: w E. You now work with seven Bucks Production, which
Speaker 1: happens to be Dwayne the Rock Johnson's production company. What
Speaker 1: was your relationship with him, like you talk about this
Speaker 1: in the book, when you were both in the same league,
Speaker 1: and how did it sort of graduate to this whole
Speaker 1: new place. Yeah, we had um for two people who
Speaker 1: were certainly physically extraordinarily different. Um, you know, we we
Speaker 1: were we kind of had the same UM. Well, we
Speaker 1: definitely did not have the same path to get the
Speaker 1: BW but there are similarities in the sense that we're
Speaker 1: essentially one year apart um, you know, age wise, so
Speaker 1: we kind of have that same um you know, gen
Speaker 1: x sensibilities in terms of hitting a sweet spot age
Speaker 1: when Star Wars and Indiana Jones and like all those
Speaker 1: things came out, uh and be having similar tastes and fans,
Speaker 1: you know, sense of humor, that kind of thing. UM
Speaker 1: to be able to relate as far as pop culture
Speaker 1: and movies and sports as well. UM. You know, he
Speaker 1: famously UM And I didn't realize that at the time,
Speaker 1: but as a member of the Miami Hurricanes, he'd come
Speaker 1: to Syracuse where I went, UM and they beat our
Speaker 1: asses pretty good in football, and I remember booing what
Speaker 1: turned out to be him and all his teammates off
Speaker 1: the field has rated after a you know, decisive, heartbreaking victory. UM.
Speaker 1: But he always you know, his philosophy, wh's the same
Speaker 1: now as it was then, has always been show me
Speaker 1: what you got I don't have. You know, there a
Speaker 1: lot of wrestlers who had these fair but you know,
Speaker 1: preconceived notions of like what can someone five eight from
Speaker 1: Long Island who doesn't look like they can crack an
Speaker 1: egg with a punch possibly tell me about how I
Speaker 1: as a wrestler, I'm supposed to either trash talk or
Speaker 1: or promote a match and sell tickets and that kind
Speaker 1: of thing, um, which I get. But his philosophy is
Speaker 1: always like, yeah, what do you If you can help me, great,
Speaker 1: and if you can't help me, I'll still be fine.
Speaker 1: So let's see what you can do. And that's what
Speaker 1: kind of you know, and I write about in the book.
Speaker 1: I mean that's when I met him at MTV doing
Speaker 1: these specials. UM. He was impressed with what I had written.
Speaker 1: He's like, wow, you really captured my voice well in
Speaker 1: these promos. Um, have you ever considered working for w
Speaker 1: w E, which I hadn't um, And And that led
Speaker 1: to me eventually getting hired. UM. And we always work
Speaker 1: together on stuff at w w E. It was always
Speaker 1: kind of like, let's bounce ideas off each other. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was very very carefully craft did it wouldn't
Speaker 1: be you know, he his philosophy wasn't like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: just go out and I'll do my stick and then
Speaker 1: we'll go to the back. It's like, how can we creatively? Yes,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of catchphrases that people knew and stuff,
Speaker 1: but getting into it and and the stories that he
Speaker 1: was telling. Uh, he always had a very very you know,
Speaker 1: carefully crafted, fine eye towards what it was he was
Speaker 1: going to say and to who and how he was
Speaker 1: going to do it. Especially then when he turned Heel
Speaker 1: Bad Guy in two thousand three, and that's sort of
Speaker 1: like was a brand new character, even though it was
Speaker 1: the same person. UM. And that extended to television, you know.
Speaker 1: I he took me along the ride. He hosted m
Speaker 1: the World Stunt Awards, the Tourist Stunt Awards, which was
Speaker 1: an award show for stuntmen and women on the Paramount
Speaker 1: Lot two years or in a row, early early early
Speaker 1: this was probably like two thousand four two thousand five
Speaker 1: or something like that, and he was like, yeah, come
Speaker 1: on board, I'll get you hired as a writer. Let's
Speaker 1: do it. Um. And we always kept in touch even
Speaker 1: when he was doing his movies. UM. And when it
Speaker 1: was time for him and Danny Garcia's business partner ex
Speaker 1: wife business partner to start their own production company, uh
Speaker 1: seven Bucks, he was like, yeah, hey, listen, we'd love
Speaker 1: to have you if you want to come. And I was,
Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years in w W E like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was ready transition. While it's like, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: still in my forties. There's still a lot of you know,
Speaker 1: work to be done and experiences to have. So let's
Speaker 1: do it. That's great, And you know you've gone on
Speaker 1: to do things like you know, the Young Rock sitcom
Speaker 1: which is returning to NBC. And what I mean is
Speaker 1: basically anything that the Rock does out of seven Bucks,
Speaker 1: you've got your fingerprints in it. Is that how it
Speaker 1: works well on the television side, um, because we obviously
Speaker 1: we have television, there's movies, there's you know, all the business, um,
Speaker 1: you know expenditures. He's again, I'm saying words that I
Speaker 1: feel I'm trying. I can confer where they were Riety podcast, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, but between Terramana and you know, his tequila
Speaker 1: company and under Armour project Rock Zoe, there's there's there's
Speaker 1: all these you know business ventures, um that all of
Speaker 1: us you know, within seven Bucks are always involved in,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, writing, you know copy for um,
Speaker 1: you know, a campaign and ad campaign or at least
Speaker 1: contributing to it. On the movie side, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not on set on any of the movies and listen,
Speaker 1: just visiting to say hi. But we all have you know,
Speaker 1: meetings where we're discussing what projects we're all working on.
Speaker 1: We'll all be able to read the scripts and give feedback.
Speaker 1: On the television side though, you know, that's a you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's more obviously my my lane and everything that
Speaker 1: you know we do on the television side, I'm involved with.
Speaker 1: But also it's certainly not a one person operation. You know,
Speaker 1: we have other members of the team on the TV side,
Speaker 1: other executives, and obviously we are in touch with Dwayne
Speaker 1: to get his feedback opinion. He is not a movie
Speaker 1: star with a production company, hands off producer. You know,
Speaker 1: anything that comes out of seven Bucks is going to
Speaker 1: be associated with him, So he wants to know what
Speaker 1: it is and and obviously wants to have some sort
Speaker 1: of connectivity to it, um, which we always try to do,
Speaker 1: even if it's on a surface level. You know, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't associate with the rock, but you know, there there's
Speaker 1: always a way in terms of like you know, he
Speaker 1: watches documentaries all the time, uh, you know, in his
Speaker 1: two seconds of free time that he has. So we're developing,
Speaker 1: you know, a docuseries right now, um that hopefully will
Speaker 1: be you know and be able to be announced soon. Um.
Speaker 1: He minored in criminology at University of Miami. You know,
Speaker 1: that opens up a whole, you know, another level of projects,
Speaker 1: dramas unscripted that we can do. But any but anything
Speaker 1: that even if just a member of the team, even
Speaker 1: if it's not Dwayne himself, has a passion for He
Speaker 1: encourages us to pursue it, and you know, want to
Speaker 1: see it through because if you don't have you know,
Speaker 1: if you're just gonna like stamp your name on something
Speaker 1: and you know that's and then hopefully it gets sells.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's that's fine maybe to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: but it really doesn't work on the seven buck side,
Speaker 1: because you really need to have somebody on the team
Speaker 1: have a strong passion and connectivity to any project for
Speaker 1: it to really you know shine. Well, one of the
Speaker 1: projects you guys have worked on is this new Vice
Speaker 1: TV docuseries that starts today the day that this podcast
Speaker 1: comes out, called Tales from the Territories, which goes deep
Speaker 1: on what wrestling was like in the seventies and eighties
Speaker 1: of very different business than um, you know, it's funny.
Speaker 1: I also sort of related to my own experience. I
Speaker 1: grew up in the eighties just watching WWF and then
Speaker 1: I remember transitioning at some point to seeing magazines about
Speaker 1: the wrestling world and lo and behold, discovering there's all
Speaker 1: these other leagues out there like n w A and
Speaker 1: u WF, and the wrestling there was so much gorri
Speaker 1: er with like barbed wire matches and buckets of blood.
Speaker 1: Like I assume that's the kind of stuff this documentary
Speaker 1: gets into the wild wooly early days. Well yeah, we
Speaker 1: we really it's funny. We we have the same exact
Speaker 1: you know, fan experience as as kids, you know, as
Speaker 1: I grew up in the eighties as well, and I
Speaker 1: remember the Pro Wrestling illustrated magazines and seeing you know,
Speaker 1: all these other all these other companies and territories essentially
Speaker 1: um and I remember seeing this picture of this wild,
Speaker 1: blonde haired, long haired guy drinking Jack Daniels and bleeding
Speaker 1: and thinking, oh my god, look at that that person.
Speaker 1: It's like a maniac. And that was Michael ps He.
Speaker 1: So I ended up working with the w w EE
Speaker 1: for a decade and a half. Um. You know, it
Speaker 1: is kind of funny how it came around, but yeah,
Speaker 1: the were you know, Vince McMahon, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: nationalized um wrestling, you know, with with Cable and WrestleMania
Speaker 1: and you know, in turner to an extent to with
Speaker 1: w CW. But before that, you know, the wrestling world
Speaker 1: was was essentially territorial, like every region in America and
Speaker 1: outside of America too, in Canada, Mexico, they all had
Speaker 1: their own territories and wrestlers would come and go out
Speaker 1: of the territories, um, and it would you know, they'd
Speaker 1: have local TV and it would be a really huge deal. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was in Memphis, whether it was
Speaker 1: in Texas with World Class up in Portland, Calgary and
Speaker 1: Stampede mid Atlantic. There there's so many different territories and stories.
Speaker 1: And this was during a time when you know, fans
Speaker 1: we're not as you know, tuned into the backstage workings
Speaker 1: of the business. You know, they treated it as real,
Speaker 1: um and much real lawyer than you know fans you know,
Speaker 1: view the product today. So there's a lot of passion
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of wrestlers, bad guys getting
Speaker 1: attacked by fans. And you know, you if you were
Speaker 1: a good guy and you or even if you were
Speaker 1: a bad guy and you were in a bar and
Speaker 1: you lost a fight to a quote unquote regular person,
Speaker 1: you'd be in big trouble because that's you know that
Speaker 1: you're you're essentially the illusion is being shattered. Um. So
Speaker 1: there are these and obviously two on Dwayne side. His dad,
Speaker 1: Rocky Johnson wrestled in the territories, as did his grandfather
Speaker 1: Hig Chief Peter my idea. So this is something you know,
Speaker 1: and he that's one of the reasons, it's it's one
Speaker 1: of the foundations of young Rock the reason why he
Speaker 1: lives in so many different towns and cities between Hawaii,
Speaker 1: between Memphis, between you know, in real life. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: he he's lived everywhere. He's lived in Texas, he's living
Speaker 1: in Connecticut, he's lived in New Zealand. You know, Um,
Speaker 1: it's because of the territories, because his dad is bouncing
Speaker 1: around from territory to territory. So we were able to
Speaker 1: work with the vice and creators the Dark Side of
Speaker 1: the Ring they're successful wrestling show. Um, to to get
Speaker 1: the real life people who experienced them, who lived during
Speaker 1: these times and tell these stories and shoot recreations of
Speaker 1: these stories so you're seeing these stories come to life.
Speaker 1: Um and and yeah, it was one of those things
Speaker 1: where like the dark side of the business has been
Speaker 1: you know well told, Uh, especially with Dark Side of
Speaker 1: the Ring being such a big success over advice, how
Speaker 1: can we you know, tell the story of these basically wild,
Speaker 1: crazy anything can happen, just needs to be seen to
Speaker 1: be believed type stories. And that was the you know,
Speaker 1: the foundation of tales from the territories that yeah, we're
Speaker 1: super excited about, you know coming out. Um, you know today,
Speaker 1: what what was it like to get footage and and
Speaker 1: find sort of the historical record there because this this
Speaker 1: was far these territories were far from a polished product,
Speaker 1: was it was? There a lot of effort that went
Speaker 1: into digging that all opera. Was it there for the taking? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean there's archival footage and there's stills and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, you know, But the the good thing is
Speaker 1: is that the story isn't really relying on footage footage
Speaker 1: because almost all of these stories m are what takes
Speaker 1: place outside of the ring um and whether it wouldn't
Speaker 1: be footage anyway. So that's why we're shooting these recreations
Speaker 1: while you know, hearing from the people directly involved or
Speaker 1: at least one step removed from the people directly involved,
Speaker 1: whether there was a story told to them or whether
Speaker 1: it was something that they lived themselves. So we could
Speaker 1: supplement that with footage of um the people the principles,
Speaker 1: But in terms of the actual stories of what went
Speaker 1: what went down, that's something that we just shoot ourselves
Speaker 1: and are able to kind of seamlessly insert it as
Speaker 1: these legends are are telling their first person accounts and
Speaker 1: what led show up in this stock. So there's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it was so much fun, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's part of my job as a producer, was reaching
Speaker 1: out um to Breath the hit Man Heart, reaching out
Speaker 1: to Jerry the King Lawler, reaching out to Jimmy Mouth
Speaker 1: and the South Heart, Jeff Jarrett, Jerry Jarrett, his father,
Speaker 1: um and and you know between my relationships and Evan
Speaker 1: Huntsey and Jason Eisner Dark Side of the Ring, you know,
Speaker 1: to be able to have Kevin von Erik, to be
Speaker 1: able to have Dr d David Schultz and a lot
Speaker 1: of people who haven't really spoken a ton on you know,
Speaker 1: these subjects. I'm Duel of the Butcher is on our show.
Speaker 1: I remember that guy. Yeah, that's the guy that you'd
Speaker 1: read in the the old you know magazine. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that a fork coming out of his head exactly. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's so cool. It's so cool to you know,
Speaker 1: be able to see them in person. I was at
Speaker 1: a couple of the tapings, um and see them tell
Speaker 1: their tales. Do you remember, by the way, from these magazines.
Speaker 1: I just had a memory. They would there was some
Speaker 1: company that would advertise you could create your own wrestler
Speaker 1: and make up moves, make up a wrestler, and you'd
Speaker 1: like hand in like I don't know, three dollars a month,
Speaker 1: and then they'd come back to you was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you're wrestler. Beat that wrestler and it was this whole
Speaker 1: like three page print out of everything going on in
Speaker 1: the league. And I'm sure it was a total scam,
Speaker 1: but I still loved it. I I remember advertisements like that.
Speaker 1: I never had the I was the sucker, did it? Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean and to this day, as you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you know, when you grow up a wrestling fan, you
Speaker 1: you know hundreds of different performers, and it feels like
Speaker 1: nowadays so many of these guys, like every month goes
Speaker 1: by you here one of them dying, and it's like
Speaker 1: a little piece of your childhood being peeled away one
Speaker 1: by one, where there are people that you wanted in
Speaker 1: this doct that you didn't hear from just because as
Speaker 1: they were no longer with us. Well you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it would be in a in a perfect world,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean. Summer of two thousand fifteen for
Speaker 1: me was very rough because you know, Dusty Rhodes the
Speaker 1: American Dream and Roddy piper Um two of my favorites.
Speaker 1: Roddy was my favorite as a kid. Dusty became my
Speaker 1: favorite when I had the opportunity to work with him
Speaker 1: backstage at w w E. Otherwise I had you know,
Speaker 1: like seen you know, as a as a w w
Speaker 1: F fan growing up. Of course we saw the polka
Speaker 1: dot laden Dusty Rhodes, you know, when he was in
Speaker 1: w w E. But you know, it was a while
Speaker 1: other than the magazines actually for me at least other
Speaker 1: people had probably a different experience to see him in action.
Speaker 1: And he was so magnetic and such a force of nature. Truly,
Speaker 1: no one liked Dusty Rhodes the American Dream And you know,
Speaker 1: I got to work with two of his sons, Dustin
Speaker 1: Rhodes gold Dust and Cody Rhodes. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: but just being able to work with Dusty, Dusty would
Speaker 1: have had a field day on this show. Um, he
Speaker 1: would have been. He's such a great storyteller and such
Speaker 1: a great presence. Um. The same with Roddy, although Roddy
Speaker 1: you know, again two very very different people. But you know,
Speaker 1: again Roddy did he did one man show with all
Speaker 1: his stories and everything. Um. And yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of legends, um that would have been
Speaker 1: great to have on. But there you know, there's still
Speaker 1: i think in some cases mentioned in some of these
Speaker 1: stories and being able to you know, take them and
Speaker 1: you know have their uh, the legacy you know continue. Um,
Speaker 1: it was very very cool. Well that's the beauty of
Speaker 1: the wrestling BIS. Lots of great stories and you tell
Speaker 1: plenty of them in your new book. There's just one problem.
Speaker 1: True tales from the former one time seventh most powerful
Speaker 1: person in w W W E. Brian, thank you for joining
Speaker 1: me today, Andrew, thank you. This was This was a
Speaker 1: lot of fun. Um. I expanded my vocabulary somewhat, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: and it was well done out. Thank you. I'm very
Speaker 1: proud of myself. This has been another episode of Strictly Business.
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation
Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you
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Speaker 1: we're doing.