WEBVTT - Former WWE Insider Sees Life After Vince McMahon 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.800 Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.080 which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.720 in the media business. Today, I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.480 I'll start this week with a confession. In fact, two 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.639 of them, one related to the other. The first, I, 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:27.240 as a child was a big fan of the World 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:31.920 Wrestling Federation from Hulk Ogan on down. The second, I 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.159 had no idea For the first few years I followed 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.720 it at this um sport was totally fake, every move 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:42.239 in and outside the ring, completely scripted. Hey, I never 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.960 said it was a genius. Today I'm going to talk 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.519 to Brian Gowartz, one of the people who did that 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:50.360 script thing and wrote about his experience in his new book. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.040 He also has a new documentary series about wrestling's early 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.720 days on Vice TV. We'll be back with Brian in 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:08.920 just a minute. And we're back with Brian, author of 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.319 the new book There's just One Problem. True Tales from 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:16.160 the former one time seventh most powerful person in w 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.400 w E. Thanks for coming on, Brian, Andrew, thank you, 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:23.120 thanks for having me. So I suppose we should start 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.200 with an explanation of what it even means to script 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.760 something like wrestling, because I think that's a little subject 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.880 to interpretation. Are you suggesting each in every move? Are 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.520 you suggesting each and every word? I would imagine there's 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:41.319 a lot of improvisation. Yeah, there's many different facets you know, 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:47.920 to writing wrestling, and the writers themselves, um, don't have 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:53.160 the qualifications to write, you know, the moves per se. Um. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:56.880 The wrestlers largely themselves are the ones who who put 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:01.240 the matches together. They work with former wrestlers called producers. Um. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.560 When it comes to the television shows and some of 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:06.480 the live events, what we do is writers, well we 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.040 would um you know, write the storylines that lead up 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.720 to the matches and propose what the matches are, and 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.760 propose who as they stay in wrestling, goes over in 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.880 the match, which is to win or to lose? Um. 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.480 And then you know that there are separate people who 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.239 actually you know, construct what is going to happen within 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.320 the ropes. You know, well, will make a suggestion as 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.040 far as like when this person will interfere and it 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.600 will lead to something next week. UM. But that's you 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.520 know the extent of the in ring action where dangerously 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.519 unqualified you know to uh to actually suggest what happens physically, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.520 especially because the wrestlers themselves, it's like, yes, it's predetermined 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.200 and it's scripted, um, but the actual you know, there's 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.400 major physicality that's involved and injuries that occur, uh and 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.400 everything else. So that it's it's really important to have 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.000 people who know they're doing, you know, putting that stuff together. 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:06.480 But the actual storylines and you know, the the in 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:09.600 ring promos as that we're in terms of like what 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.320 the wrestlers are saying to each other, that's very collaborative 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.960 as well. But that's where the writers really you know, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.960 have much more involvement in terms of what that is 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.640 and working with the wrestlers and working with you know, 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.440 and during my tenure Vince McMahon as it would be 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.680 now Triple H Paul evac um in terms of what 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.880 gets approved and everything else. Um. So there's yeah, there's 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.840 there's backstage stuff. There's stuff that takes place outside of 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.720 the arena, um, you know, right, So there's there's lots 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:41.440 of different aspects to it. Um. You know, so that 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.920 I really even realized. We'll get to Vincent in just 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.560 a minute, because I'm certainly interested in hearing your opinion 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.880 on where this league is at today. It's certainly an 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.920 interesting time. But still want to know some more about 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:57.400 the creative process here. What goes into being a great 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.560 creative in the wrestling world. Would imagine it's not necessarily 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:05.360 the same thing as writing for a sitcom or a 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:09.680 talk show. And you've done that kind of stuff as well. Yeah, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.280 I mean I always you know, my my uncle, Howard 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:18.400 gowertz Um was a longtime successful show runner and executive producer. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:22.360 He wrote on shows like Taxi and Wings and Larry Sanders. Um, 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.480 and it's what I wanted to do, you know, ever 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.760 since I saw you know his name in the credits 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.080 watching Taxi as a kid. Um. So I you know, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.200 I was fortunate enough to to have written on a 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:37.160 few sitcoms prior to w w E and w w E. Yeah, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.240 it's a completely different animal. There's some similarities. Um, it's 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.799 actually evolved to have more similarities. When I first started, 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.720 and there was not many similarities because it was very 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:53.039 run and gun. We'd be writing Tuesday morning, we'd be 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.160 writing the show that would take place Tuesday afternoon. Um, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.760 from scratch. Now it's much more prepared ahead of time, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.400 but nothing like the sitcom world, you know, like I'm 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.839 I'm here in Memphis season three of Young Rock, And 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.000 you know, these like like any other single cam sitcom, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.240 you know, the scripts are written, that rewritten, their several drafts. 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:18.560 There's meetings with NBC getting and Universal getting notes and everything, um, 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.400 and you're shooting individual scenes over the course of the week, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.559 whereas in w W E, you know, you're preparing during 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.920 the week, but basically the show goes on because it's 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.599 eight o'clock on Monday, not necessarily because it's ready or 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.400 completely you know, prepared, but you gotta do it because 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.720 you're on live television three hours and there's a lot 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.880 of you know, scrambling day of It's it's very it's 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.680 it's friends. It's it's frantic, but it's also the word friends. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.800 It's it's very uh, it's it's very like adrenaline fueled. 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.440 You know. There's there's just a special magic, especially for 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.839 the performers, because they have the added bonus that that 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.440 really no one else in scripted television does of performing 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.680 not for a studio audience of a few hundred, but 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.440 of several thousand um and on pay per views that 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.240 could exceed over fifty thousand. Sometimes people who will and 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.720 we're not necessarily, like you know, conditioned to like it, 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.920 just because they're there that they don't like it, they'll 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.640 let you know, um. And you know it's it's just 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:28.720 very very um exciting. And when you're feeding off of 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.320 that um, it kind of fuels you to the next 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.640 show you wanna, you want to top yourself. Yeah, you 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.520 really capture that vibe in your book, which was such 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.599 a fun read. And you know, the funny thing is 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.839 the thing that I was struck by reading your book 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.960 was I could have been you. What I mean that 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.400 I too was a small Jewish kid growing up on 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.560 Long Island who grew up loving what was then known 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.320 as the WWF and it's eighties heyday from the first 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.200 Wrestlmania to Saturday Night main event. And I know you 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.120 sort of came up following it as well. I mean, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.839 I don't know about you. I have this like Pavlovian 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.280 response to hearing the opening notes of remember that song 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:11.520 Obsession by an Emotion, which which was what kicked off 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.760 Saturday and I made event I hear those opening notes, 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:16.560 that my adrenaline shoots out of my body because I 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.000 remembered that was the feeling I felt when I was 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:23.120 about to watch like the most amazing wrestling extravaganza and 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.400 so funny. By the way, it's sorry interrupt Yeah, the 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.280 fact that you said that. So at one point in 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:33.400 the mid two thousand's, Saturdaynite's main event came back, um 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.160 or made like there was some version of it that 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.400 came back, and I was so animate about using that song, 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:45.520 the obsession song by an Emotion um And of course, 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:47.480 you know, this was mid two thousand's. They didn't want 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.240 to seem you know, the idea of it being retro was, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.920 you know, being a step back and this is who 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:56.080 we are now, and let's have some new metal two 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.720 thousand six song as the whatever it was. But I 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:01.920 ve and went so far as to like, please just 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.440 just prepare and opening, let's just show Vince what it 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.200 would look like. Uh, And of course I think it was. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.360 Here comes the Boom was the name of the song 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.680 that they used, and it was edited exactly to the 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:16.560 you know this physicality on the booms. And then when 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.400 the Animotion version, they just put the song over what 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.360 they had already edited, so nothing SYNCD up. It looked 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.560 completely I feel like I'm being sandbag, but I still 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.960 appreciate the fact that you know that you love that 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.280 song because I think it's in the whole generation. It 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:34.439 really does speak to I respect the effort that you made. 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:38.120 That's that's tremendous. You mentioned Vince we gotta go there 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.760 obviously quite the scandal that we've heard about in recent months, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:47.559 which has led to his resignation as the chairman and CEO. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.400 What is your because you worked with this guy, you 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.800 know him? Well, I'm not, you know, I'm sure you 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.839 can't say you know what you saw if there was 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:59.560 anything on, you know, in terms of observing what was 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.720 going on. The scandal, I think that sort of happened 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:06.920 after your time. But can this league function without someone 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:13.160 so central to what this sport is? Uh? Yeah, I 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:14.840 mean I think the short answer is yes, and and 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.040 they're proving it right now. Um. You know, Vince was 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.760 the he was you know where the buck stopped um 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:26.160 at w W E. But he also, you know, spouse 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.160 state philosophy of no one person is bigger than the company. Um, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.120 and that was certainly the case, you know when talent left, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:36.160 uh so called Steve Austin retired when the Rock went 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.840 to Hollywood. Ultimately, when John Cena went to Hollywood. Um, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.760 there's so many you know, great great wrestlers that were 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:48.320 the focal point of the show that ultimately stopped wrestling. 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.000 And the company went on and it went through peaks 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.600 and valleys, but it still was on the air every 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.959 single week. And from a company in a business standpoint, 0:09:57.400 --> 0:09:59.760 you know, I think Vince always employed the same philosophy 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.440 that like, you know, when he groomed people Triple H, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:08.920 Paul avec included um, you know, and his daughter Stephanie McMahon, um, 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.480 and several you know executives as well, to put it 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.720 in and be in a position to succeed. You know. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.040 My whole reason for being at w w E came 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.120 about because the two writers that were there at the 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.640 time before I started. Um, they you know through and 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.000 they have their reasons and everything, but they left the 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.719 company w w E to go to the rival w CW, 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.120 and that left w w WE with zero writers. Um, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.320 and that's one of the main reasons why I was hired. Um, 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.720 they needed someone, and they needed someone right now. But 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.280 Vince you know, learned from that. He's like, I'm never 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:45.240 gonna put myself in a position where like I am 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.480 all of a sudden without a writing staff because one 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.480 or two people decided to leave. Um And I think 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.400 that just general philosophy permeates. So now you have people 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.199 being put in a position um to you know, essentially 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.880 prove their worth when its too all these you know, 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.680 talent relations, creative writing, live events, all these aspects of 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.079 the company that ran through Vince. But he had people 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.280 you know, in in place there. Um And I think 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.040 you know, Paula Veck and Stephanie McMahon um and Nick 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:20.880 con as well. I mean Paul and Stephanie obviously went 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.760 through the rigors of w w E and that culture. 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:28.400 It's embedded in their lives. They've been in the company. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:34.920 You know, Triple H started wrestling, I believe, um and 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.160 and has always been. He didn't just all of a 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.840 sudden graduate two behind the scenes role after you know, 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.800 Vince stepped down. You know, he had been an executive 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.320 in the company, you know, for years before that. Even 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.640 as a wrestler. He was always in the production meetings 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.600 at television. Um, you know, sitting in the front row, observing, learning, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.319 you know, absorbing everything. Stephanie too was you know, Vince 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.960 didn't put her in a position of power immediately. She 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.079 interned essentially at the New York sales office. At the 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:09.680 beginning of her tenure, she followed and tracked Vince backstage 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.920 before she took any sort of position. UM. So I 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:15.680 think they're well versed and and Nick con of course 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:19.880 is you know someone who's well raging from C A 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.960 A who now runs the business there. Yeah, and on 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:26.280 that business side as WWS evolving and needs someone just 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.880 like him who knows these fields so well. And it's 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.120 not in a wrestling bubble as we call it. Um. 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:38.000 You know, I think that that triumphant um. I'm saying 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.840 a lot of words today that I'm not I hope 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:44.120 these are actual words that they are. UM. I think 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.280 they've been put in a position where it's not like 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.880 Vince is gone and all of a sudden, it's the 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.120 scene from airplanes. Anyone had to fly a plane and 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.600 there's just mass pine waving their arms and screaming. It's 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.439 like they're there put in a position, um to now 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:00.720 show their worth. And I think know, if there's any 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.000 indication of the past month or two, you know, they're 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.600 doing just that. I wonder though, and I think there's 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.040 been a lot of speculation that has propped up the 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:13.600 stock that the company may finally get sold. Uh could 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:18.839 you imagine that happening? Um? Look, anything is is possible, 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.280 you know. UM. And I think you know, I wouldn't 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.000 know exactly, but I would say when w w E 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.880 Network first started, UM, I had always you know, thought like, Okay, 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.079 this is going to be something that w w E 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.319 strongly feels is going to be its own streaming service. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.760 And I can't imagine if this existing in any form um. 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.240 And it's you know, no one is going to know 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.400 how to do this better than us and all of 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.559 that stuff and all their archival footage and everything else. Um. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.240 And then all of a sudden, now it's on Peacock 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.680 and it's not its own streaming form anymore. And I 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:56.720 was just like, huh, I did not see that coming. Um. 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.400 And I think it's kind of like, you know, that's 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.800 a good parallel because they're a business. Um, it's fiercely 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.840 and with much pride, you know, a family owned business, 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.280 even though it's a publicly traded company. But the McMahon's 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.360 obviously own the majority of the stock and everything. UM. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.960 But yeah, the Vince has always been you know, his philosophy, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.640 and it trickles on down is Um, there's more than 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.080 one right way to do something, and you know, if 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.680 an opportunity comes along, they'll always do. It's funny because 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.240 Triple h And and Stephanie McMahon as television characters, they 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.480 got a lot of heat as authority authority figures by 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.880 saying we're gonna do what's best for business, and on 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:39.280 television that translated to putting the good guys, the baby 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.920 faces and precarious positions. Um, but it's best for business. 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.120 But now it actually is paralleling in real life. Um, 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.440 they'll do what's best for business. And whether that means 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.560 one day selling the company, that could be, whether it 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.760 means keeping the company forever and evolving. You know, with 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:59.560 the times, I could easily see that too. We'll be 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.640 back in just a moment with more with Brian Gwertz. 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:14.840 Stick around. We're back with Brian Gowertz, author of the 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.000 new book There's Just One Problem, True tales from the 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.520 former one time seventh most powerful person in the w 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.520 w E. So, Brian, you have since left the w 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.960 w E. You now work with seven Bucks Production, which 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.400 happens to be Dwayne the Rock Johnson's production company. What 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.640 was your relationship with him, like you talk about this 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.560 in the book, when you were both in the same league, 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.840 and how did it sort of graduate to this whole 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.680 new place. Yeah, we had um for two people who 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:53.280 were certainly physically extraordinarily different. Um, you know, we we 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.720 were we kind of had the same UM. Well, we 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.920 definitely did not have the same path to get the 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.320 BW but there are similarities in the sense that we're 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:07.640 essentially one year apart um, you know, age wise, so 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.880 we kind of have that same um you know, gen 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:14.480 x sensibilities in terms of hitting a sweet spot age 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.640 when Star Wars and Indiana Jones and like all those 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.240 things came out, uh and be having similar tastes and fans, 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.840 you know, sense of humor, that kind of thing. UM 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.800 to be able to relate as far as pop culture 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.560 and movies and sports as well. UM. You know, he 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.480 famously UM And I didn't realize that at the time, 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.000 but as a member of the Miami Hurricanes, he'd come 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:39.200 to Syracuse where I went, UM and they beat our 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.800 asses pretty good in football, and I remember booing what 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.600 turned out to be him and all his teammates off 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:52.040 the field has rated after a you know, decisive, heartbreaking victory. UM. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.400 But he always you know, his philosophy, wh's the same 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.840 now as it was then, has always been show me 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.400 what you got I don't have. You know, there a 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:05.120 lot of wrestlers who had these fair but you know, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.240 preconceived notions of like what can someone five eight from 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.280 Long Island who doesn't look like they can crack an 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.080 egg with a punch possibly tell me about how I 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.800 as a wrestler, I'm supposed to either trash talk or 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.360 or promote a match and sell tickets and that kind 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.879 of thing, um, which I get. But his philosophy is 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.000 always like, yeah, what do you If you can help me, great, 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.280 and if you can't help me, I'll still be fine. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.240 So let's see what you can do. And that's what 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:35.920 kind of you know, and I write about in the book. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.280 I mean that's when I met him at MTV doing 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.320 these specials. UM. He was impressed with what I had written. 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.080 He's like, wow, you really captured my voice well in 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.920 these promos. Um, have you ever considered working for w 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.240 w E, which I hadn't um, And And that led 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.360 to me eventually getting hired. UM. And we always work 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.040 together on stuff at w w E. It was always 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.640 kind of like, let's bounce ideas off each other. Um. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.639 And it was very very carefully craft did it wouldn't 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.480 be you know, he his philosophy wasn't like, yeah, I'll 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.800 just go out and I'll do my stick and then 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.240 we'll go to the back. It's like, how can we creatively? Yes, 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.760 there was a lot of catchphrases that people knew and stuff, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:15.159 but getting into it and and the stories that he 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.240 was telling. Uh, he always had a very very you know, 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.199 carefully crafted, fine eye towards what it was he was 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.159 going to say and to who and how he was 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.840 going to do it. Especially then when he turned Heel 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.240 Bad Guy in two thousand three, and that's sort of 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.119 like was a brand new character, even though it was 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:34.560 the same person. UM. And that extended to television, you know. 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.520 I he took me along the ride. He hosted m 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.600 the World Stunt Awards, the Tourist Stunt Awards, which was 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.760 an award show for stuntmen and women on the Paramount 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.320 Lot two years or in a row, early early early 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.680 this was probably like two thousand four two thousand five 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.360 or something like that, and he was like, yeah, come 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.720 on board, I'll get you hired as a writer. Let's 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.440 do it. Um. And we always kept in touch even 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.800 when he was doing his movies. UM. And when it 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.240 was time for him and Danny Garcia's business partner ex 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.480 wife business partner to start their own production company, uh 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.000 seven Bucks, he was like, yeah, hey, listen, we'd love 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:12.840 to have you if you want to come. And I was, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.120 you know, fifteen years in w W E like, yeah, 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.439 I was ready transition. While it's like, you know, I'm 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.359 still in my forties. There's still a lot of you know, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.080 work to be done and experiences to have. So let's 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:30.080 do it. That's great, And you know you've gone on 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:33.400 to do things like you know, the Young Rock sitcom 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.520 which is returning to NBC. And what I mean is 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.520 basically anything that the Rock does out of seven Bucks, 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.720 you've got your fingerprints in it. Is that how it 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.159 works well on the television side, um, because we obviously 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:52.320 we have television, there's movies, there's you know, all the business, um, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.959 you know expenditures. He's again, I'm saying words that I 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:01.679 feel I'm trying. I can confer where they were Riety podcast, Um, 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.359 you know, but between Terramana and you know, his tequila 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:09.720 company and under Armour project Rock Zoe, there's there's there's 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:13.119 all these you know business ventures, um that all of 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.679 us you know, within seven Bucks are always involved in, 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:21.600 whether it's you know, writing, you know copy for um, 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.200 you know, a campaign and ad campaign or at least 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.800 contributing to it. On the movie side, you know, I'm 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:29.800 not on set on any of the movies and listen, 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.679 just visiting to say hi. But we all have you know, 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.760 meetings where we're discussing what projects we're all working on. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.200 We'll all be able to read the scripts and give feedback. 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.879 On the television side though, you know, that's a you know, 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.320 that's that's more obviously my my lane and everything that 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.800 you know we do on the television side, I'm involved with. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.520 But also it's certainly not a one person operation. You know, 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.440 we have other members of the team on the TV side, 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:01.120 other executives, and obviously we are in touch with Dwayne 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.920 to get his feedback opinion. He is not a movie 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.119 star with a production company, hands off producer. You know, 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:10.280 anything that comes out of seven Bucks is going to 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:13.680 be associated with him, So he wants to know what 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.520 it is and and obviously wants to have some sort 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.560 of connectivity to it, um, which we always try to do, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.679 even if it's on a surface level. You know, you 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.040 wouldn't associate with the rock, but you know, there there's 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.760 always a way in terms of like you know, he 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.720 watches documentaries all the time, uh, you know, in his 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.960 two seconds of free time that he has. So we're developing, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:40.080 you know, a docuseries right now, um that hopefully will 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.840 be you know and be able to be announced soon. Um. 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:46.159 He minored in criminology at University of Miami. You know, 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:49.840 that opens up a whole, you know, another level of projects, 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.920 dramas unscripted that we can do. But any but anything 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:55.960 that even if just a member of the team, even 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.800 if it's not Dwayne himself, has a passion for He 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:02.000 encourages us to pursue it, and you know, want to 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.520 see it through because if you don't have you know, 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.679 if you're just gonna like stamp your name on something 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.439 and you know that's and then hopefully it gets sells. 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.480 I mean that's that's that's fine maybe to a certain extent, 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:16.359 but it really doesn't work on the seven buck side, 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.080 because you really need to have somebody on the team 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.480 have a strong passion and connectivity to any project for 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.000 it to really you know shine. Well, one of the 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.880 projects you guys have worked on is this new Vice 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:35.080 TV docuseries that starts today the day that this podcast 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:40.119 comes out, called Tales from the Territories, which goes deep 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.040 on what wrestling was like in the seventies and eighties 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:47.200 of very different business than um, you know, it's funny. 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.840 I also sort of related to my own experience. I 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:54.120 grew up in the eighties just watching WWF and then 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:59.359