1 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Strictly Business, the podcast in 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: which we speak with some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: in the media business. Today, I'm Andrew Wallenstein with Variety. 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: I'll start this week with a confession. In fact, two 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: of them, one related to the other. The first, I, 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: as a child was a big fan of the World 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Wrestling Federation from Hulk Ogan on down. The second, I 8 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: had no idea For the first few years I followed 9 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: it at this um sport was totally fake, every move 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: in and outside the ring, completely scripted. Hey, I never 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: said it was a genius. Today I'm going to talk 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: to Brian Gowartz, one of the people who did that 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: script thing and wrote about his experience in his new book. 14 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: He also has a new documentary series about wrestling's early 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: days on Vice TV. We'll be back with Brian in 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: just a minute. And we're back with Brian, author of 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: the new book There's just One Problem. True Tales from 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: the former one time seventh most powerful person in w 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: w E. Thanks for coming on, Brian, Andrew, thank you, 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. So I suppose we should start 21 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: with an explanation of what it even means to script 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: something like wrestling, because I think that's a little subject 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: to interpretation. Are you suggesting each in every move? Are 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: you suggesting each and every word? I would imagine there's 25 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: a lot of improvisation. Yeah, there's many different facets you know, 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: to writing wrestling, and the writers themselves, um, don't have 27 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: the qualifications to write, you know, the moves per se. Um. 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: The wrestlers largely themselves are the ones who who put 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: the matches together. They work with former wrestlers called producers. Um. 30 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: When it comes to the television shows and some of 31 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: the live events, what we do is writers, well we 32 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: would um you know, write the storylines that lead up 33 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: to the matches and propose what the matches are, and 34 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: propose who as they stay in wrestling, goes over in 35 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: the match, which is to win or to lose? Um. 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: And then you know that there are separate people who 37 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: actually you know, construct what is going to happen within 38 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: the ropes. You know, well, will make a suggestion as 39 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: far as like when this person will interfere and it 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: will lead to something next week. UM. But that's you 41 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: know the extent of the in ring action where dangerously 42 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: unqualified you know to uh to actually suggest what happens physically, 43 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: especially because the wrestlers themselves, it's like, yes, it's predetermined 44 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: and it's scripted, um, but the actual you know, there's 45 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: major physicality that's involved and injuries that occur, uh and 46 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: everything else. So that it's it's really important to have 47 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: people who know they're doing, you know, putting that stuff together. 48 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: But the actual storylines and you know, the the in 49 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: ring promos as that we're in terms of like what 50 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: the wrestlers are saying to each other, that's very collaborative 51 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: as well. But that's where the writers really you know, 52 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: have much more involvement in terms of what that is 53 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: and working with the wrestlers and working with you know, 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: and during my tenure Vince McMahon as it would be 55 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: now Triple H Paul evac um in terms of what 56 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: gets approved and everything else. Um. So there's yeah, there's 57 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: there's backstage stuff. There's stuff that takes place outside of 58 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: the arena, um, you know, right, So there's there's lots 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: of different aspects to it. Um. You know, so that 60 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: I really even realized. We'll get to Vincent in just 61 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: a minute, because I'm certainly interested in hearing your opinion 62 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: on where this league is at today. It's certainly an 63 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: interesting time. But still want to know some more about 64 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: the creative process here. What goes into being a great 65 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: creative in the wrestling world. Would imagine it's not necessarily 66 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: the same thing as writing for a sitcom or a 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: talk show. And you've done that kind of stuff as well. Yeah, 68 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: I mean I always you know, my my uncle, Howard 69 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: gowertz Um was a longtime successful show runner and executive producer. 70 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: He wrote on shows like Taxi and Wings and Larry Sanders. Um, 71 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: and it's what I wanted to do, you know, ever 72 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: since I saw you know his name in the credits 73 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: watching Taxi as a kid. Um. So I you know, 74 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to to have written on a 75 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: few sitcoms prior to w w E and w w E. Yeah, 76 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: it's a completely different animal. There's some similarities. Um, it's 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: actually evolved to have more similarities. When I first started, 78 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: and there was not many similarities because it was very 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: run and gun. We'd be writing Tuesday morning, we'd be 80 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: writing the show that would take place Tuesday afternoon. Um, 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: from scratch. Now it's much more prepared ahead of time, 82 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: but nothing like the sitcom world, you know, like I'm 83 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: I'm here in Memphis season three of Young Rock, And 84 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, these like like any other single cam sitcom, 85 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, the scripts are written, that rewritten, their several drafts. 86 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: There's meetings with NBC getting and Universal getting notes and everything, um, 87 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: and you're shooting individual scenes over the course of the week, 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,559 Speaker 1: whereas in w W E, you know, you're preparing during 89 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: the week, but basically the show goes on because it's 90 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: eight o'clock on Monday, not necessarily because it's ready or 91 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: completely you know, prepared, but you gotta do it because 92 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: you're on live television three hours and there's a lot 93 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: of you know, scrambling day of It's it's very it's 94 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: it's friends. It's it's frantic, but it's also the word friends. 95 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: It's it's very uh, it's it's very like adrenaline fueled. 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: You know. There's there's just a special magic, especially for 97 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: the performers, because they have the added bonus that that 98 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: really no one else in scripted television does of performing 99 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: not for a studio audience of a few hundred, but 100 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: of several thousand um and on pay per views that 101 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: could exceed over fifty thousand. Sometimes people who will and 102 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: we're not necessarily, like you know, conditioned to like it, 103 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: just because they're there that they don't like it, they'll 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: let you know, um. And you know it's it's just 105 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: very very um exciting. And when you're feeding off of 106 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: that um, it kind of fuels you to the next 107 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: show you wanna, you want to top yourself. Yeah, you 108 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: really capture that vibe in your book, which was such 109 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: a fun read. And you know, the funny thing is 110 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: the thing that I was struck by reading your book 111 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: was I could have been you. What I mean that 112 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: I too was a small Jewish kid growing up on 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: Long Island who grew up loving what was then known 114 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: as the WWF and it's eighties heyday from the first 115 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: Wrestlmania to Saturday Night main event. And I know you 116 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: sort of came up following it as well. I mean, 117 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: I don't know about you. I have this like Pavlovian 118 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: response to hearing the opening notes of remember that song 119 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: Obsession by an Emotion, which which was what kicked off 120 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: Saturday and I made event I hear those opening notes, 121 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: that my adrenaline shoots out of my body because I 122 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: remembered that was the feeling I felt when I was 123 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: about to watch like the most amazing wrestling extravaganza and 124 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: so funny. By the way, it's sorry interrupt Yeah, the 125 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: fact that you said that. So at one point in 126 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: the mid two thousand's, Saturdaynite's main event came back, um 127 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: or made like there was some version of it that 128 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: came back, and I was so animate about using that song, 129 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: the obsession song by an Emotion um And of course, 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: you know, this was mid two thousand's. They didn't want 131 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: to seem you know, the idea of it being retro was, 132 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, being a step back and this is who 133 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: we are now, and let's have some new metal two 134 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: thousand six song as the whatever it was. But I 135 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: ve and went so far as to like, please just 136 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: just prepare and opening, let's just show Vince what it 137 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: would look like. Uh, And of course I think it was. 138 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: Here comes the Boom was the name of the song 139 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: that they used, and it was edited exactly to the 140 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: you know this physicality on the booms. And then when 141 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: the Animotion version, they just put the song over what 142 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: they had already edited, so nothing SYNCD up. It looked 143 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: completely I feel like I'm being sandbag, but I still 144 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that you know that you love that 145 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: song because I think it's in the whole generation. It 146 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: really does speak to I respect the effort that you made. 147 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: That's that's tremendous. You mentioned Vince we gotta go there 148 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: obviously quite the scandal that we've heard about in recent months, 149 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: which has led to his resignation as the chairman and CEO. 150 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: What is your because you worked with this guy, you 151 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: know him? Well, I'm not, you know, I'm sure you 152 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: can't say you know what you saw if there was 153 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: anything on, you know, in terms of observing what was 154 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: going on. The scandal, I think that sort of happened 155 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: after your time. But can this league function without someone 156 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: so central to what this sport is? Uh? Yeah, I 157 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: mean I think the short answer is yes, and and 158 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: they're proving it right now. Um. You know, Vince was 159 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: the he was you know where the buck stopped um 160 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: at w W E. But he also, you know, spouse 161 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: state philosophy of no one person is bigger than the company. Um, 162 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: and that was certainly the case, you know when talent left, 163 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: uh so called Steve Austin retired when the Rock went 164 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: to Hollywood. Ultimately, when John Cena went to Hollywood. Um, 165 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: there's so many you know, great great wrestlers that were 166 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: the focal point of the show that ultimately stopped wrestling. 167 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: And the company went on and it went through peaks 168 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: and valleys, but it still was on the air every 169 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: single week. And from a company in a business standpoint, 170 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think Vince always employed the same philosophy 171 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: that like, you know, when he groomed people Triple H, 172 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: Paul avec included um, you know, and his daughter Stephanie McMahon, um, 173 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: and several you know executives as well, to put it 174 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: in and be in a position to succeed. You know. 175 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: My whole reason for being at w w E came 176 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: about because the two writers that were there at the 177 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: time before I started. Um, they you know through and 178 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: they have their reasons and everything, but they left the 179 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 1: company w w E to go to the rival w CW, 180 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: and that left w w WE with zero writers. Um, 181 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: and that's one of the main reasons why I was hired. Um, 182 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: they needed someone, and they needed someone right now. But 183 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: Vince you know, learned from that. He's like, I'm never 184 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: gonna put myself in a position where like I am 185 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: all of a sudden without a writing staff because one 186 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: or two people decided to leave. Um And I think 187 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: that just general philosophy permeates. So now you have people 188 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: being put in a position um to you know, essentially 189 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: prove their worth when its too all these you know, 190 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: talent relations, creative writing, live events, all these aspects of 191 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: the company that ran through Vince. But he had people 192 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, in in place there. Um And I think 193 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, Paula Veck and Stephanie McMahon um and Nick 194 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: con as well. I mean Paul and Stephanie obviously went 195 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: through the rigors of w w E and that culture. 196 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: It's embedded in their lives. They've been in the company. 197 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: You know, Triple H started wrestling, I believe, um and 198 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: and has always been. He didn't just all of a 199 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: sudden graduate two behind the scenes role after you know, 200 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: Vince stepped down. You know, he had been an executive 201 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: in the company, you know, for years before that. Even 202 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: as a wrestler. He was always in the production meetings 203 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: at television. Um, you know, sitting in the front row, observing, learning, 204 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: you know, absorbing everything. Stephanie too was you know, Vince 205 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: didn't put her in a position of power immediately. She 206 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: interned essentially at the New York sales office. At the 207 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: beginning of her tenure, she followed and tracked Vince backstage 208 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: before she took any sort of position. UM. So I 209 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: think they're well versed and and Nick con of course 210 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: is you know someone who's well raging from C A 211 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: A who now runs the business there. Yeah, and on 212 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: that business side as WWS evolving and needs someone just 213 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: like him who knows these fields so well. And it's 214 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: not in a wrestling bubble as we call it. Um. 215 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: You know, I think that that triumphant um. I'm saying 216 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: a lot of words today that I'm not I hope 217 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: these are actual words that they are. UM. I think 218 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: they've been put in a position where it's not like 219 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: Vince is gone and all of a sudden, it's the 220 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: scene from airplanes. Anyone had to fly a plane and 221 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: there's just mass pine waving their arms and screaming. It's 222 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: like they're there put in a position, um to now 223 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: show their worth. And I think know, if there's any 224 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: indication of the past month or two, you know, they're 225 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: doing just that. I wonder though, and I think there's 226 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: been a lot of speculation that has propped up the 227 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: stock that the company may finally get sold. Uh could 228 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: you imagine that happening? Um? Look, anything is is possible, 229 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: you know. UM. And I think you know, I wouldn't 230 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: know exactly, but I would say when w w E 231 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: Network first started, UM, I had always you know, thought like, Okay, 232 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: this is going to be something that w w E 233 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: strongly feels is going to be its own streaming service. 234 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: And I can't imagine if this existing in any form um. 235 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: And it's you know, no one is going to know 236 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: how to do this better than us and all of 237 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: that stuff and all their archival footage and everything else. Um. 238 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, now it's on Peacock 239 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: and it's not its own streaming form anymore. And I 240 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: was just like, huh, I did not see that coming. Um. 241 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's kind of like, you know, that's 242 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: a good parallel because they're a business. Um, it's fiercely 243 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: and with much pride, you know, a family owned business, 244 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: even though it's a publicly traded company. But the McMahon's 245 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: obviously own the majority of the stock and everything. UM. 246 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: But yeah, the Vince has always been you know, his philosophy, 247 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: and it trickles on down is Um, there's more than 248 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: one right way to do something, and you know, if 249 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: an opportunity comes along, they'll always do. It's funny because 250 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: Triple h And and Stephanie McMahon as television characters, they 251 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: got a lot of heat as authority authority figures by 252 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: saying we're gonna do what's best for business, and on 253 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: television that translated to putting the good guys, the baby 254 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: faces and precarious positions. Um, but it's best for business. 255 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: But now it actually is paralleling in real life. Um, 256 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: they'll do what's best for business. And whether that means 257 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: one day selling the company, that could be, whether it 258 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: means keeping the company forever and evolving. You know, with 259 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: the times, I could easily see that too. We'll be 260 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: back in just a moment with more with Brian Gwertz. 261 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: Stick around. We're back with Brian Gowertz, author of the 262 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: new book There's Just One Problem, True tales from the 263 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: former one time seventh most powerful person in the w 264 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: w E. So, Brian, you have since left the w 265 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: w E. You now work with seven Bucks Production, which 266 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: happens to be Dwayne the Rock Johnson's production company. What 267 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: was your relationship with him, like you talk about this 268 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: in the book, when you were both in the same league, 269 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: and how did it sort of graduate to this whole 270 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: new place. Yeah, we had um for two people who 271 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: were certainly physically extraordinarily different. Um, you know, we we 272 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: were we kind of had the same UM. Well, we 273 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: definitely did not have the same path to get the 274 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: BW but there are similarities in the sense that we're 275 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: essentially one year apart um, you know, age wise, so 276 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: we kind of have that same um you know, gen 277 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: x sensibilities in terms of hitting a sweet spot age 278 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: when Star Wars and Indiana Jones and like all those 279 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: things came out, uh and be having similar tastes and fans, 280 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, sense of humor, that kind of thing. UM 281 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: to be able to relate as far as pop culture 282 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: and movies and sports as well. UM. You know, he 283 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: famously UM And I didn't realize that at the time, 284 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: but as a member of the Miami Hurricanes, he'd come 285 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: to Syracuse where I went, UM and they beat our 286 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: asses pretty good in football, and I remember booing what 287 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: turned out to be him and all his teammates off 288 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: the field has rated after a you know, decisive, heartbreaking victory. UM. 289 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: But he always you know, his philosophy, wh's the same 290 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: now as it was then, has always been show me 291 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: what you got I don't have. You know, there a 292 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,120 Speaker 1: lot of wrestlers who had these fair but you know, 293 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: preconceived notions of like what can someone five eight from 294 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: Long Island who doesn't look like they can crack an 295 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: egg with a punch possibly tell me about how I 296 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: as a wrestler, I'm supposed to either trash talk or 297 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: or promote a match and sell tickets and that kind 298 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: of thing, um, which I get. But his philosophy is 299 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: always like, yeah, what do you If you can help me, great, 300 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: and if you can't help me, I'll still be fine. 301 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: So let's see what you can do. And that's what 302 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: kind of you know, and I write about in the book. 303 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's when I met him at MTV doing 304 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: these specials. UM. He was impressed with what I had written. 305 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: He's like, wow, you really captured my voice well in 306 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: these promos. Um, have you ever considered working for w 307 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: w E, which I hadn't um, And And that led 308 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: to me eventually getting hired. UM. And we always work 309 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: together on stuff at w w E. It was always 310 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: kind of like, let's bounce ideas off each other. Um. 311 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 1: And it was very very carefully craft did it wouldn't 312 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: be you know, he his philosophy wasn't like, yeah, I'll 313 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: just go out and I'll do my stick and then 314 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: we'll go to the back. It's like, how can we creatively? Yes, 315 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: there was a lot of catchphrases that people knew and stuff, 316 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: but getting into it and and the stories that he 317 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: was telling. Uh, he always had a very very you know, 318 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: carefully crafted, fine eye towards what it was he was 319 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: going to say and to who and how he was 320 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: going to do it. Especially then when he turned Heel 321 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: Bad Guy in two thousand three, and that's sort of 322 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: like was a brand new character, even though it was 323 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: the same person. UM. And that extended to television, you know. 324 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: I he took me along the ride. He hosted m 325 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: the World Stunt Awards, the Tourist Stunt Awards, which was 326 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: an award show for stuntmen and women on the Paramount 327 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: Lot two years or in a row, early early early 328 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: this was probably like two thousand four two thousand five 329 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: or something like that, and he was like, yeah, come 330 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: on board, I'll get you hired as a writer. Let's 331 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: do it. Um. And we always kept in touch even 332 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: when he was doing his movies. UM. And when it 333 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: was time for him and Danny Garcia's business partner ex 334 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: wife business partner to start their own production company, uh 335 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: seven Bucks, he was like, yeah, hey, listen, we'd love 336 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: to have you if you want to come. And I was, 337 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen years in w W E like, yeah, 338 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: I was ready transition. While it's like, you know, I'm 339 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: still in my forties. There's still a lot of you know, 340 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: work to be done and experiences to have. So let's 341 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: do it. That's great, And you know you've gone on 342 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: to do things like you know, the Young Rock sitcom 343 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: which is returning to NBC. And what I mean is 344 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: basically anything that the Rock does out of seven Bucks, 345 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: you've got your fingerprints in it. Is that how it 346 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: works well on the television side, um, because we obviously 347 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: we have television, there's movies, there's you know, all the business, um, 348 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 1: you know expenditures. He's again, I'm saying words that I 349 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: feel I'm trying. I can confer where they were Riety podcast, Um, 350 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: you know, but between Terramana and you know, his tequila 351 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: company and under Armour project Rock Zoe, there's there's there's 352 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: all these you know business ventures, um that all of 353 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: us you know, within seven Bucks are always involved in, 354 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, writing, you know copy for um, 355 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, a campaign and ad campaign or at least 356 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: contributing to it. On the movie side, you know, I'm 357 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: not on set on any of the movies and listen, 358 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: just visiting to say hi. But we all have you know, 359 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: meetings where we're discussing what projects we're all working on. 360 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: We'll all be able to read the scripts and give feedback. 361 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: On the television side though, you know, that's a you know, 362 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: that's that's more obviously my my lane and everything that 363 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: you know we do on the television side, I'm involved with. 364 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: But also it's certainly not a one person operation. You know, 365 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: we have other members of the team on the TV side, 366 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: other executives, and obviously we are in touch with Dwayne 367 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: to get his feedback opinion. He is not a movie 368 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: star with a production company, hands off producer. You know, 369 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: anything that comes out of seven Bucks is going to 370 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: be associated with him, So he wants to know what 371 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: it is and and obviously wants to have some sort 372 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: of connectivity to it, um, which we always try to do, 373 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: even if it's on a surface level. You know, you 374 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't associate with the rock, but you know, there there's 375 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: always a way in terms of like you know, he 376 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: watches documentaries all the time, uh, you know, in his 377 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: two seconds of free time that he has. So we're developing, 378 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: you know, a docuseries right now, um that hopefully will 379 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: be you know and be able to be announced soon. Um. 380 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: He minored in criminology at University of Miami. You know, 381 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: that opens up a whole, you know, another level of projects, 382 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: dramas unscripted that we can do. But any but anything 383 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: that even if just a member of the team, even 384 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: if it's not Dwayne himself, has a passion for He 385 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: encourages us to pursue it, and you know, want to 386 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: see it through because if you don't have you know, 387 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: if you're just gonna like stamp your name on something 388 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: and you know that's and then hopefully it gets sells. 389 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's that's fine maybe to a certain extent, 390 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: but it really doesn't work on the seven buck side, 391 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: because you really need to have somebody on the team 392 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: have a strong passion and connectivity to any project for 393 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: it to really you know shine. Well, one of the 394 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: projects you guys have worked on is this new Vice 395 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: TV docuseries that starts today the day that this podcast 396 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: comes out, called Tales from the Territories, which goes deep 397 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: on what wrestling was like in the seventies and eighties 398 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: of very different business than um, you know, it's funny. 399 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: I also sort of related to my own experience. I 400 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: grew up in the eighties just watching WWF and then 401 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: I remember transitioning at some point to seeing magazines about 402 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: the wrestling world and lo and behold, discovering there's all 403 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: these other leagues out there like n w A and 404 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: u WF, and the wrestling there was so much gorri 405 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: er with like barbed wire matches and buckets of blood. 406 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: Like I assume that's the kind of stuff this documentary 407 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: gets into the wild wooly early days. Well yeah, we 408 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: we really it's funny. We we have the same exact 409 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: you know, fan experience as as kids, you know, as 410 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: I grew up in the eighties as well, and I 411 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: remember the Pro Wrestling illustrated magazines and seeing you know, 412 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: all these other all these other companies and territories essentially 413 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: um and I remember seeing this picture of this wild, 414 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: blonde haired, long haired guy drinking Jack Daniels and bleeding 415 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: and thinking, oh my god, look at that that person. 416 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: It's like a maniac. And that was Michael ps He. 417 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: So I ended up working with the w w EE 418 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: for a decade and a half. Um. You know, it 419 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: is kind of funny how it came around, but yeah, 420 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: the were you know, Vince McMahon, you know, kind of 421 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: nationalized um wrestling, you know, with with Cable and WrestleMania 422 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: and you know, in turner to an extent to with 423 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: w CW. But before that, you know, the wrestling world 424 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: was was essentially territorial, like every region in America and 425 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: outside of America too, in Canada, Mexico, they all had 426 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: their own territories and wrestlers would come and go out 427 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: of the territories, um, and it would you know, they'd 428 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: have local TV and it would be a really huge deal. Um, 429 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 1: you know, whether it was in Memphis, whether it was 430 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: in Texas with World Class up in Portland, Calgary and 431 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: Stampede mid Atlantic. There there's so many different territories and stories. 432 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: And this was during a time when you know, fans 433 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: we're not as you know, tuned into the backstage workings 434 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: of the business. You know, they treated it as real, 435 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: um and much real lawyer than you know fans you know, 436 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: view the product today. So there's a lot of passion 437 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of wrestlers, bad guys getting 438 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: attacked by fans. And you know, you if you were 439 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: a good guy and you or even if you were 440 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: a bad guy and you were in a bar and 441 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: you lost a fight to a quote unquote regular person, 442 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: you'd be in big trouble because that's you know that 443 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 1: you're you're essentially the illusion is being shattered. Um. So 444 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: there are these and obviously two on Dwayne side. His dad, 445 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: Rocky Johnson wrestled in the territories, as did his grandfather 446 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: Hig Chief Peter my idea. So this is something you know, 447 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,719 Speaker 1: and he that's one of the reasons, it's it's one 448 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: of the foundations of young Rock the reason why he 449 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: lives in so many different towns and cities between Hawaii, 450 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: between Memphis, between you know, in real life. Um, you know, 451 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: he he's lived everywhere. He's lived in Texas, he's living 452 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: in Connecticut, he's lived in New Zealand. You know, Um, 453 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,479 Speaker 1: it's because of the territories, because his dad is bouncing 454 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: around from territory to territory. So we were able to 455 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: work with the vice and creators the Dark Side of 456 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: the Ring they're successful wrestling show. Um, to to get 457 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: the real life people who experienced them, who lived during 458 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: these times and tell these stories and shoot recreations of 459 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: these stories so you're seeing these stories come to life. 460 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: Um and and yeah, it was one of those things 461 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: where like the dark side of the business has been 462 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: you know well told, Uh, especially with Dark Side of 463 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: the Ring being such a big success over advice, how 464 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: can we you know, tell the story of these basically wild, 465 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: crazy anything can happen, just needs to be seen to 466 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: be believed type stories. And that was the you know, 467 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: the foundation of tales from the territories that yeah, we're 468 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: super excited about, you know coming out. Um, you know today, 469 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: what what was it like to get footage and and 470 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: find sort of the historical record there because this this 471 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: was far these territories were far from a polished product, 472 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: was it was? There a lot of effort that went 473 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: into digging that all opera. Was it there for the taking? Yeah, 474 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: I mean there's archival footage and there's stills and stuff 475 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: like that, you know, But the the good thing is 476 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: is that the story isn't really relying on footage footage 477 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: because almost all of these stories m are what takes 478 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: place outside of the ring um and whether it wouldn't 479 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: be footage anyway. So that's why we're shooting these recreations 480 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: while you know, hearing from the people directly involved or 481 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: at least one step removed from the people directly involved, 482 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: whether there was a story told to them or whether 483 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: it was something that they lived themselves. So we could 484 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: supplement that with footage of um the people the principles, 485 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: But in terms of the actual stories of what went 486 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: what went down, that's something that we just shoot ourselves 487 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: and are able to kind of seamlessly insert it as 488 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: these legends are are telling their first person accounts and 489 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: what led show up in this stock. So there's like, 490 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, it was so much fun, you know, and 491 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: that's part of my job as a producer, was reaching 492 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: out um to Breath the hit Man Heart, reaching out 493 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: to Jerry the King Lawler, reaching out to Jimmy Mouth 494 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: and the South Heart, Jeff Jarrett, Jerry Jarrett, his father, 495 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: um and and you know between my relationships and Evan 496 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: Huntsey and Jason Eisner Dark Side of the Ring, you know, 497 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: to be able to have Kevin von Erik, to be 498 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: able to have Dr d David Schultz and a lot 499 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: of people who haven't really spoken a ton on you know, 500 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: these subjects. I'm Duel of the Butcher is on our show. 501 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 1: I remember that guy. Yeah, that's the guy that you'd 502 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: read in the the old you know magazine. Oh my god, 503 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: that a fork coming out of his head exactly. You know, 504 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: it's it's so cool. It's so cool to you know, 505 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: be able to see them in person. I was at 506 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: a couple of the tapings, um and see them tell 507 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: their tales. Do you remember, by the way, from these magazines. 508 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: I just had a memory. They would there was some 509 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: company that would advertise you could create your own wrestler 510 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: and make up moves, make up a wrestler, and you'd 511 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: like hand in like I don't know, three dollars a month, 512 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: and then they'd come back to you was like, oh yeah, 513 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: you're wrestler. Beat that wrestler and it was this whole 514 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: like three page print out of everything going on in 515 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: the league. And I'm sure it was a total scam, 516 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: but I still loved it. I I remember advertisements like that. 517 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: I never had the I was the sucker, did it? Uh? Yeah? 518 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: I mean and to this day, as you know, unfortunately, 519 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, when you grow up a wrestling fan, you 520 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: you know hundreds of different performers, and it feels like 521 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: nowadays so many of these guys, like every month goes 522 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: by you here one of them dying, and it's like 523 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: a little piece of your childhood being peeled away one 524 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: by one, where there are people that you wanted in 525 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: this doct that you didn't hear from just because as 526 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: they were no longer with us. Well you know, yeah, 527 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, it would be in a in a perfect world, 528 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: you know. I mean. Summer of two thousand fifteen for 529 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: me was very rough because you know, Dusty Rhodes the 530 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: American Dream and Roddy piper Um two of my favorites. 531 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: Roddy was my favorite as a kid. Dusty became my 532 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: favorite when I had the opportunity to work with him 533 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: backstage at w w E. Otherwise I had you know, 534 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: like seen you know, as a as a w w 535 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: F fan growing up. Of course we saw the polka 536 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: dot laden Dusty Rhodes, you know, when he was in 537 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: w w E. But you know, it was a while 538 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: other than the magazines actually for me at least other 539 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: people had probably a different experience to see him in action. 540 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: And he was so magnetic and such a force of nature. Truly, 541 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: no one liked Dusty Rhodes the American Dream And you know, 542 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: I got to work with two of his sons, Dustin 543 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: Rhodes gold Dust and Cody Rhodes. Um. And you know, 544 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: but just being able to work with Dusty, Dusty would 545 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: have had a field day on this show. Um, he 546 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: would have been. He's such a great storyteller and such 547 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: a great presence. Um. The same with Roddy, although Roddy 548 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: you know, again two very very different people. But you know, 549 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: again Roddy did he did one man show with all 550 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: his stories and everything. Um. And yeah, I mean there's 551 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: there's a lot of legends, um that would have been 552 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: great to have on. But there you know, there's still 553 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: i think in some cases mentioned in some of these 554 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: stories and being able to you know, take them and 555 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: you know have their uh, the legacy you know continue. Um, 556 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: it was very very cool. Well that's the beauty of 557 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: the wrestling BIS. Lots of great stories and you tell 558 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: plenty of them in your new book. There's just one problem. 559 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: True tales from the former one time seventh most powerful 560 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: person in w W W E. Brian, thank you for joining 561 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: me today, Andrew, thank you. This was This was a 562 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: lot of fun. Um. I expanded my vocabulary somewhat, I think, uh, 563 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: and it was well done out. Thank you. I'm very 564 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: proud of myself. This has been another episode of Strictly Business. 565 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Tune in next week for another helping of scintillating conversation 566 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: with media movers and shakers, and please make sure you 567 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast to hear future episodes. Also leave 568 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: a review in Apple Podcasts and let us know how 569 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: we're doing.