1 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Book f Daily with 2 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 3 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: Today's conversation is one that takes a deep dive into 4 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: American history through the lens of Hubert Humphrey. I sit 5 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: down and chat with author Samuel Friedman to discuss his 6 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: new book, Into the Bright Sunshine, Young Hubert Humphrey and 7 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: the Fight for Civil Rights. Why this is really interesting, 8 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: other than the fact that Samuel Friedman is an award 9 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: winning author, journalist, and educator and was a finalist for 10 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: the Pulitzer, is that the time that he outlines, the 11 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: timeline that he outlines in his book very much mirrors 12 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: the time frame that we are living in right now, 13 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: where you are seeing a lot of the rights and 14 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: protections and dissemination of equity that we have been participating 15 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: in over the last fifty years be rescinded, and in 16 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: his book he is looking at how those rights came 17 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: to be and who was pushing back and who was 18 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: upholding white supremacy. And again, what is old is new again. 19 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 1: History oftentimes repeats itself when we don't disrupt the patterns 20 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: of behavior and get to the root and the core 21 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: of the issues. And so in this conversation we talk 22 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: about how public schools came to be, how segregation transpired, 23 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: and what Hubert Humphrey's role was in all of this 24 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: in creating the progressive movement as we know and understand 25 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: it today, That's not the name that it went by 26 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: at that time. But essentially, the people that were pushing 27 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: back against Hubert Humphrey, the people that were wanting to 28 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: institute and did institute Jim Crow and uphold segregation, are 29 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: the same people that are banning books, and that are 30 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: intimidating school teachers, and are racing black culture and are 31 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: overturning affirmative action now right. We love to tell ourselves 32 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: the lies that, oh, well, racism will die out. Well, 33 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: no it doesn't, because the people white Americans who uphold 34 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: a racist ideology give birth to children for whom they 35 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: pass down that information too. And so that's how we 36 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: end up in this cyclical place. What's unfortunate, though, is 37 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: that I'll ask Samuel, you know, what do you see 38 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: different this time? Is there any hopefulness that you see 39 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: in this time that can signal that this may not 40 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: be the end of days how we discuss it, and 41 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: so we get into that conversation. I hope you all 42 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: enjoy this and that you pick up his book if 43 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: you were looking for some historical things to read, which 44 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: I always think is really helpful when we're in such 45 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: a period of upheaval. And again, his book is entitled 46 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: Into the Bright Sunshine, Young Hubert Humphrey and the Fight 47 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: for Civil Rights. Folks, I am very happy to welcome 48 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: to WOKF Daily Samuel G. Friedman, who is an award 49 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: winning author, journalist, and educator and had been a finalist 50 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: for the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book Award and 51 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: has won a National Jewish Book Award and New York 52 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: Public Libraries Helen Bernstein Award in his new book, Into 53 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: the Bright Sunshine and Young Herbert Hubert Humphrey and the 54 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: Fight for Civil Rights. In this book, Samuel, you go 55 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: into it's almost odd that nineteen forty eight, it's almost 56 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: scary that the timeframe that you're covering and the rise 57 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: of Humphrey and the rise of I guess liberal politics 58 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: as we know it, where he was and where we 59 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,279 Speaker 1: are now is almost as if we're looking in a mirror. 60 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: You're You're so right, Danielle. You know, when I started 61 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: working on this book in early twenty fifteen, we're in 62 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: the second Obama presidential term. Marriage equality was a few 63 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: months away from being enshrined by the Supreme Court, and 64 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 2: I thought I was working on a really important work 65 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: of narrative history about this overlooked chapter in civil rights 66 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: history that takes place during the nineteen forties. But then 67 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: once we got past November twenty sixteen and we know 68 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: what happened, I realized that what I was writing about 69 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: was a parallel set of experiences to what we've been 70 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: living with in this country for the last seven years now, 71 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 2: which is this battle between inclusive, interracial, interfaith democracy and 72 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 2: forces of authoritarianism. And that was the same battle Humphrey 73 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: was fighting. And the terms that were applied to his 74 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: foes are the same ones we apply to our foes 75 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: these days, white supremacist, Christian nationalist America firster. And I 76 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 2: don't think that the moral of the story is that 77 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: no progress has ever made. But I think the very 78 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: important moral of the story is that you can't get 79 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: complacent after you've made progress, that battles continue to need 80 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 2: to be fought and that every time there's been a 81 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: period of progress in this country towards progress on inclusive 82 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: democracy and greater social equality, is followed by a backlash, 83 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: and then you have to push back and turn against 84 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: that backlash. 85 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: Can you set the stage of where where we were 86 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: as a country when Humphrey gave his speech with regard 87 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: to the fact that we needed to move into what 88 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: we refer to now as a multiracial democracy. 89 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: Sure, that's a great question, Danielle. The speech you're referring 90 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: to as a speech, Humphrey gives it the Democratic Convention 91 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: July fourteenth, nineteen forty eight, so almost exactly seventy five 92 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: years ago. What really sets the stage for that and 93 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: sets the state for that battle over what a multiracial 94 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 2: democracy is going to be is very much World War 95 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: two actually, and the moral claim that black Gis and 96 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 2: also Jewish Gis have on the conscients of the United States, 97 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: because in that war you have people who were othered 98 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 2: in this country, who are treated as second class citizens 99 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: or worse, who go to war to defeat different forms 100 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: of fascism and racial and religious supremacy in Nazi Germany, 101 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: Imperial Japan, Fascist Italy, and the Black Gis formed this 102 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: term in this concept that they call double V double victory, 103 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: and it means we're going to defeat fascism abroad and 104 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: then we're going to come home and stake our claim 105 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 2: to defeating fascism in the United States. And the Jewish 106 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: Gis didn't have any phrase as eloquent and succinct as 107 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: double V. But they had the same idea that we're 108 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: going to fight on behalf of this country, which, although 109 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: it doesn't clinch us, treats us definitely second class citizens, 110 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: and we're going to come back and demand our equality 111 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: in this country. And so that really led to a 112 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: conversation in the United States during the latter years of 113 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: the war, when it was clear we were going to 114 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 2: win the war, and definitely in a couple of years after, 115 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: of America's unfinished agenda, and how do we make this 116 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: more inclusive society? And the reason it really telescoped into 117 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: the Democratic Party in the Democratic Convention is that at 118 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 2: that time we're coming out of four elections of Franklin D. Roosevelt, 119 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: thirteen years in office until he dies in office and 120 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: Harry Truman takes over. And of course, in many ways 121 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: Roosevelt is the great American liberal president of all time 122 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: because of the New Deal, the social compact that it created. 123 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: But in order at least as FDR saw it, to 124 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: keep getting elected and keep being able to enact New 125 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: Deal legislation, he made what I think was literally a 126 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: devil's bargain with the Southern segregationists in the Democratic Party. 127 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 2: And I know now we look at the Republican Party, 128 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: especially in the South, as being the party of white supremacy, 129 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: but actually back in the forties and for many decades before, 130 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: it was completely reversed the Republican Party because it had 131 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: been the Party of Lincoln and the Union was abhorred 132 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: by Southern bigots, and the Democratic Party was seen as 133 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: the protector of white supremacy. And Jim Crow FDR decided, 134 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: I need the electoral votes from the South to win 135 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: in November. I need the support of these Southern legislators 136 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: in Congress to enact my legislation. And so what I'm 137 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: going to let them do is implement New Deal legislation 138 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: on a segregated basis. And in some cases FDR went 139 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: so far as to have New Deal legislation written and 140 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: signed by him to really enshrine racial inequality. Just one 141 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: quick example. A lot of us are familiar with Social Security, right, 142 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: social Security was written to omit agricultural workers and domestic workers. Well, 143 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 2: guess what ninety percent of the working black citizens in 144 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: the South did agriculture work and domestic work. So that 145 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 2: was clearly a way to carve out black citizens in 146 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 2: the South from the provisions of the New Deal. And 147 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: so that created this unbearable tension within the Democratic Party 148 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: of are we going to continue to do that in 149 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 2: more but supposedly pragmatic system of letting the South have 150 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: segregation and the rest of the party being fairly liberal 151 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: organized labor or been Catholics or been Jews a significant 152 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: number of blacks in the North, although many still voted 153 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: for the Republican Party and the liberal intellectuals. Or are 154 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: we going to call the question and say you can't 155 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 2: have it both ways. You can't say you're the party 156 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: of liberalism and the social Compact and omit millions upon 157 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 2: millions of Black Americans and also tacitly tolerate a great 158 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: deal of anti Semitism as well. And all of that 159 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: comes to boil at the nineteen forty eight Democratic Convention 160 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: because Harry Truman, who has kind of gone back and 161 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: forth on civil rights, sometimes being rather bold and sometimes 162 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: being very timid, is at this moment in his timid phase. 163 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: He just wants a quiet convention, pass a platform that 164 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: has very pallid, ambiguous civil rights playing collect ones for 165 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: FDR always did, and keep the votes of the South. 166 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: And it's impossible. The Southerners already are threatening to mutiny, 167 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: and the liberals, led very much by Hubert Humphrey, are saying, 168 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: as he actually says in this convention speech, it's one 169 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy two years too late to endorse equal 170 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: rights by race. We're way overdue on this. And that's 171 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 2: what comes to play for these four incredible, turbulent, sweltering 172 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: days in Philadelphia. 173 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: You know what's so interesting to me, right, as somebody 174 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: who follows and covers and analyzes current events and our 175 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: current political system, is how much of what is old 176 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: is always new again, right, And the fact being that 177 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: as a country, we have never reckoned with our founding, 178 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: We have never reckoned with the the policies that have 179 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: been applauded like the New Deal right that helped shape 180 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: the middle class, but in so many ways excluded purposefully 181 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: black people, people of color and indigenous people in this country. Right, 182 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: And so we find ourselves in this moment. You know, 183 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: we can go back to you know, pre Trump to 184 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: Obama years where many had said, well, we finally arrived, right, 185 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: we have finally we were actualizing the dream and the 186 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: vision of what this country should have been, right and 187 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: could have been. I often, frankly think about who would 188 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: America be now had Reconstruction been allowed to continue, had 189 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: Reconstruction lasted from when it started until this moment, what 190 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: would America look like? What would our GDP look like? 191 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: You're right, You're absolutely right. And this your point goes 192 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 2: to something I thought about a lot, which is these 193 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:05,479 Speaker 2: repeating cycles in American history of Ussian resistance, emancipation, progress, backlash, 194 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: and that goes, rinse and repeat at various points in 195 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: our history. One you already named Reconstruction, which is cut 196 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: off by white terrorism and political cowardice after about ten years. 197 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 2: The second time is after the period of mass immigration 198 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: from Eastern and Southern Europe, when immigration gets cut off 199 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty four. The third time is after this movement. 200 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: The Freedom movement begins in the nineteen fifties with Montgomery 201 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: bus boycott and Brown versus Board of bed and you 202 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: have the policy in the South of what's called massive resistance. 203 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: And then the fourth is after the election of Barack 204 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: Obama and the sense the naive idea of being post racial, 205 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: which I never bought into, but certainly the idea that 206 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: we're now seeing a rising multiracial coalition which is the 207 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: future of this country. And what we get trump Ism 208 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 2: as the ultimate. 209 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: Backlash, you know. And so here we are, right, all 210 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: of the policies, many of the policies, not all, but 211 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: many of the policies that Humphrey lifted up right are 212 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: being challenged at this very moment. Look, we can look 213 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: at this last session of the Supreme Court and watch 214 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: how the white lash wasn't just one that is based 215 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: purely in politics in terms of an election, but now 216 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: is a judicial backlash based on the fact of who 217 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: was able to see three Supreme Court justices and turn 218 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: and weaponize the Supreme Court of the United States to 219 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: erode the fifty years of progress that were hard to win. 220 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Whether we're looking at abortion or we're looking at affirmative action, 221 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: we're looking at LGBTQ equality and access, and so when 222 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: you look at this moment that we're in, which is 223 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: clearly in the whitelash moment, right, that's clearly where we are. Yes, 224 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: do you see that they is sam an opportunity for 225 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: us to learn from this phase? Or is this like 226 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: are we I guess the question that I'm asking is 227 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: is this rinse and repeat cycle that we have always 228 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: that we continue to go through in America? Is this 229 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: one worse than what we have ever seen? 230 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: That last question is profound. It's hard not to feel 231 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 2: like trump Ism is worse. But that's just because it's 232 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: what we're living through right now. 233 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: Right. 234 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: You know, I was a little too young to have 235 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: firsthand memories of the worst of the church bombings and 236 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: other forms of white terrorism against civil rights workers and 237 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 2: long before I'm born. Is the terrorism that destroys reconstruction 238 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 2: and ushers in Jim Crow. So I don't know how 239 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: one could assess which is worse than the others. They're 240 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: all horrific enough in and of themselves. And there are 241 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 2: a couple of important lessons from Humphrey's example. I should 242 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: say that what happened in forty HS, so your listeners understand, 243 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: is over and against Harriet Truman's desire to avoid the 244 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: civil rights issue, and over and against the Southern segregationist 245 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: threat to leave the party in the convention, which they do. 246 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 2: Humphrey gives this spellbinding speech which convinces the delegates to 247 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: vote in favor of a firm civil rights plank for 248 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: the first time ever. And the famous phrase which I 249 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: use in my book title is he says, it's time 250 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: for the Democratic Party to walk out of the shadow 251 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 2: of states rights and into the bright sunshine of human rights. 252 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: A couple of key takeaways from how he accomplished it. 253 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: This was a case at the forty eight Convention of 254 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: what I call mister inside and mister outside, and the 255 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:54,119 Speaker 2: need for a symbiotic relationship between canny, savvy political maneuvering 256 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: and mass mobilization. Humphrey was mister inside. He and his 257 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: allies were inside the convention mention talking to delegates, getting 258 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 2: their votes in line, obviously making great eloquent case from 259 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: the pulpit, and meanwhile outside, the great labor and civil 260 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 2: rights leader A. Philip Randolph was literally outside the convention 261 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: hall picketing. Because Randolph had been threatening for months a 262 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: campaign of massive black draft resistance if Harry Truman didn't 263 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: desegregate the military. That was one of the key civil 264 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: rights issues of that moment, you know, desegregating the military, 265 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: fair Employment Practices Commission, and anti lynching laws were probably 266 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 2: the three biggest items on the civil rights agenda. And 267 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: Humphrey and people from Randolph's Union, the Brotherhood of Sleeping 268 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 2: car Porters are writing letters back and forth after the 269 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: convention saying, I couldn't have done it without you. So 270 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: they recognized you needed pressure from the outside in the 271 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: form of the prospect of massive black draft resistance, and 272 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: he also needed political acumen and idealism from the inside. 273 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: And I think that's the lesson now, it's not one 274 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: worthy whether you need both. I think another important lesson 275 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 2: of Humphrey in this era when some of us have 276 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: realized there are never trumpers who we never thought would 277 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: be our allies on certain issues but have become vital allies, 278 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 2: is that Humphrey was really adroit at finding people to 279 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 2: ally with on his civil rights agenda, especially when he 280 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: was mayor of Minneapolis, even before becoming a national level politician. 281 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,239 Speaker 2: And he could find people who would disagree with on 282 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: other issues, but a if they had a fundamentally decent soul, 283 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 2: and b if they would agree with him on concrete 284 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 2: elements of civil rights, like fair employment practices and and 285 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 2: restrictive covenants and so forth, he would keep them as 286 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: his allies. He'd have people labor and management, people who'd 287 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: be on literally opposite sides of strikes, but would jointly 288 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 2: be working with him for civil rights. And I think 289 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: that ability to build issue based coalitions when you need 290 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 2: them is another good lesson, and I do think it's 291 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: one that a lot of us have been act really enacting. 292 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 2: And you know, you brought up the demolition of abortion 293 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 2: rights by the Supreme Court. We've looked at a lot 294 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: of women and probably some men too, who in elections 295 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 2: have voted on the basis of those rights being taken away. 296 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 2: And probably a lot of them were moderate Republicans, are independents. 297 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: It wasn't all progressive, but when they realized that the 298 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 2: constitutional right was being stripped away after fifty years, it 299 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 2: changed their thinking. And to some extent, even though I 300 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: think that the queer vote overall, you know, e skews 301 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 2: more progressive on the whold, but it's going to happen 302 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: with some moderate and conservative queers too. Now that you 303 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 2: know you can see where the decision on the three 304 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 2: h three creative cases going. It's going towards further decisions 305 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: in which businesses get to claim a religious exemption not 306 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: to do any business for in this point case LGBTQ. 307 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: But as people pointed out, what if someone says I'm 308 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 2: against interracial marriage. What if someone says my religious beliefs 309 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,719 Speaker 2: are racial inequality? It opens a gigantic Pandora's box. And 310 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 2: I'll just come back to one other thing you said, 311 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 2: because you packed so much great insight into your last comment, 312 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 2: You're right, somebod the achievements Humphrey was part of our 313 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: exactly the ones under assault right now. When Humphrey was 314 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 2: Lyndon Johnson's vice president. One of their great legislative achievements, 315 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: and again with righteous pressure from doctor King and the 316 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: mass movement as well, was the Voting Rights Act. And 317 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: we've seen this court whittle it down, even though they 318 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: threw a bone at it this past term, but overall, 319 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 2: really try to defend a strate the Voting Rights Act 320 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: affirmative action. Lyndon Johnson first really espoused to a firmative 321 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 2: action during the Humphrey Johnson administrative term in a famous 322 00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:00,159 Speaker 2: speech at Howard University. And we see where that's going now. 323 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 2: And so this is what I mean about you make progress, 324 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 2: but you can never be complacent about the marker, always 325 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: staying where it is and never being pushed back, because 326 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: history tells us there's always going to be a pushback. 327 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: Do you think that we are then now being pushed 328 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: back to the beginning right when you are because you 329 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: are a student of history, you are an examiner of history. 330 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: And here we are living in a moment that is 331 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean, if we still have books will be written about, 332 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: if they're not banned, right, will be written about and 333 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: studied for generations and generations to come, if in fact 334 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: we're able to keep democracy in America. My thought, right, 335 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: we are three years away from the two hundred and 336 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: fiftieth anniversary of the founding the quote unquote founding of America, 337 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: and where I see us headed is, you know, back 338 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: to the beginning, right like back to the beginning of time, 339 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: where it is very clear who has power and who doesn't, 340 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: that the laws that were fought during the time that 341 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: you were writing about have all been eroded and erased 342 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: and yet we have more people of color, more young 343 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: people that have access to the ballot than have ever 344 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: before in our history. So for you, what is that 345 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: signal to what the future looks like? 346 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: You're right that it's an existential moment. And for those 347 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: of us who thought that the spectacles of January sixth 348 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: insurrection would be the end of Trump, isn't. Tragically we 349 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 2: found out that isn't the case. So you're right. The 350 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 2: idea of another Trump term, or of a Desantus term, 351 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: raises many of the pillars of democracy into question. And 352 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 2: we're seeing, as you said, book bannings, attempt to censor 353 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 2: school curriculum, all kinds of efforts at voter suppression. So 354 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 2: we're not literally going back to enslaved people, but we're 355 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: going back to a structural inequality that is like a 356 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: national version of Jim Crow. And just to point out 357 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 2: doing which the past does predict the present, kind of 358 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: Trump's evil genius, and this is something he's more skilled 359 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: at than DeSantis and other Trump wanta bees is he 360 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: understands that there's a lot of the white working class 361 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: that wants a safety net. They just want it only 362 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: for certain people. They don't want pure old fashioned republican 363 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 2: free market economics and one of the people Humphrey battled 364 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 2: against Gerald L. K. Smith, who was a minister and 365 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: political figure and created the here's the name America first 366 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: political party and was up there with Father Coughlin, as 367 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 2: you know, one of the most dangerous demagogues in America 368 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: in the thirties and forties. Gerald L. K. Smith had 369 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: this idea that he called Christian economics, and Christian economics 370 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 2: was We're gonna have a social safety net, but basically 371 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 2: only for white Christians. So that is what a lot 372 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: of demagogues and dictators over history, not just in this country, 373 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: have figured out, is you buy off the work, the 374 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 2: you know, working class of whoever tose the German were 375 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 2: the vulk, whoever the true people are, with the social 376 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 2: safety net, and cut it out for everyone else. You know. 377 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: Adolf Hiller had a great social safety net if you 378 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: were a non Jewish German or a non Roma or 379 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 2: a non career German. He did public works building Mussolini. 380 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 2: If you ever go to Rome, the city is filled 381 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: with gigantic public works projects that Mussolini authorized so that 382 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: his supporters would have a social safety net, would have 383 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: good paying work, and that goes right up to you know, 384 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 2: Trump saying, on the one hand, we're going to close 385 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: the borders, we're gonna do voters suppression, We're going to 386 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,360 Speaker 2: ban books on and on A, We're going to destroy 387 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 2: all elements of wolfness, a term I'm in woodwoke. I'm 388 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: not never gonna I'm never going to let that term 389 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 2: get taken away because I remember in the Clinton years 390 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: when Democrats are afraid to say the term liberal and like, 391 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 2: don't be afraid of it. Own it. But anyway, and 392 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 2: Trump combines all that with saying social Security and Medicare 393 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: will be saved. But so that again goes right back 394 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: to the right wing playbook. During Humphrey's zero. 395 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: You know, the last question that I have for you 396 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: because I think again that your book is so extraordinarily timely. 397 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons why we find ourselves 398 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: in the predicament that we're in is because we don't 399 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: understand our past, because it is not it is not studied. Right. 400 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: We are given a bunch of propaganda, which frankly, you know, 401 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: was our public education system. America is great. We are 402 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: the beacon. Everyone wants to come here. So we have to, 403 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, limit access to those gates, but that we 404 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: are the land of aspiration. And I think that what 405 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: we have recognized over the last several decades, particularly with 406 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: the advent of you know, social media and internet and 407 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: access beyond textbooks and you know the five o'clock news, 408 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: is that America is not that great. That America has 409 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: has always had a history that is ripe and dark 410 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: with racism and discrimination, and whether it is towards women, 411 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: towards black people, towards indigenous people, towards queer people, or 412 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: so on and so forth, that it has never lived 413 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: up to its creed. Do you think then that given 414 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: the times that we're in, given the past that we 415 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: have come from, do you see something different, Samuel, in 416 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: this upcoming generation, Generation Z, Generation Alpha, That they are 417 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: more informed, they are more activated, and they're also getting 418 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: into a work and school system that is worse off 419 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: than their parents and grandparents ever were. How do you 420 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: see this generation taking on the issues and the problems 421 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: that we have rinstin repeated over the last two and 422 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: a half centuries. 423 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 2: Well, I hope that they will rise to the occasion. 424 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 2: I'm not a political scientist who has done deep study 425 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 2: of gen Z in the Alphas, and I can certainly 426 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 2: understand on one hand the risk that they are so 427 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 2: pessimistic because imagine coming of age, you know, in the 428 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 2: trump eras and seeing rights taken away and feeling like, 429 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: you know, we're losing some of the key rights we had, 430 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: and the economy feels uncertain. You know, we can't see 431 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 2: point will ever be able to retire. So, you know, 432 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: similarly to the way your generation was so battered by 433 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 2: the Great Recession and you know, traumatized by the endless 434 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 2: wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But the other possibility, which 435 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 2: I hope will win out, is that when you know 436 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 2: what's at stake, you can't say I don't care who 437 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 2: I vote for. Both parties are the same, you know, 438 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: putting aside specific candidates, No one who's at all sensate 439 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: now in any generation can possibly look at the two 440 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 2: parties and say there's no difference which one wins. As 441 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: you were saying, look at the composition of the Supreme Court. 442 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 2: Look at the laws that Ron DeSantis is putting through 443 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: in Florida and Greg Abbott is putting through in Texas. 444 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 2: Look at how many states are trying to criminalize women 445 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: who get abortions, doctors who provide abortions, friends who take 446 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 2: people out of state the states, or abortion is still illegal. 447 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 2: You can't say that it makes no difference who's elected. 448 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 2: So I really hope that that has sunk in. And 449 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 2: the other important thing is the realization that it's these 450 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: down ballot races that matter that I think a lot 451 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 2: of us has progress and Democrats we're very motivated in 452 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 2: presidential races, but the right wing got to give them credit. 453 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: They get their troops out for every little state legislature 454 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: race and now school board races. I used to cover 455 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: schools early in my reporting career. Typically ten percent of 456 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: the registered voters would come out and vote in the 457 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 2: school board election. So it's easy for a mobilized right 458 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: wing minority to take over a school board. So we've 459 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: got to also be fully aware as progressives that every 460 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: race all the way down to ballot has to be 461 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: you know, topic A for us, not just turning out 462 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: because we're exhilarated about you know, Barack Obama running, or 463 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 2: we're so motivated to make sure Trump doesn't win, it 464 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: will turn out in high numbers for Joe Biden. It's 465 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: got to be every race on that ballot. 466 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent, folks. The book is into the 467 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: bright sunshine, young Hubert Humphrey and the fight for civil rights. 468 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: Samuel Freeman, thank you so much for making the time 469 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: join wok app. This is a really exhilarating conversation and 470 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: I appreciate you. 471 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 2: Totally, my pleasure, in my honor, Dan Yellen, keep that 472 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 2: name going. 473 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I will do you do No, not yet but 474 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: I will. 475 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: Okay, email when you've got some merch that I can buy. 476 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you. 477 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: Okay, take good care. Thanks so much. 478 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke 479 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: f as always power to the people and to all 480 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.