1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Emocarplay and thenroud Otto with the Bloomberg 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: Business App. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: The big news in the world of politics, complete and 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: total endorsement for speaker Mike Johnson that, according to Donald Trump, 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: taking the truth social and changing the course of the day. 9 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: Here we started the day by wondering if Mike Johnson 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: had the votes to keep the gavel on Friday when 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: the new Congress begins. It appears we may have an 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: answer to that question now, and with us at the 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: table none other than Denver Riggleman, the former Republican congressman 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 2: from Virginia, with us in person. 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 3: Always a treat to see you. 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: Hope your holidays are well, Oh great, you're a happy 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: guy because you're not doing this anymore, right. 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 4: It's absolutely a bulliant that a word, yeah, but a 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 4: billion yeah, I'm a billion. 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: Yes, Well, I like that. It's a nice place to start. 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: I suspect that Mike Johnson is kind of feeling that 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: way as well, Jim Comer just this morning was calling 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: around the twenty people who helped to dispatch Kevin McCarthy 24 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 2: to say, hey, you got to get on board with 25 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: Mike Johnson. 26 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: I guess the job's been done. 27 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 4: I don't think so. I didn't work out for McCarthy 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 4: that well. And you know, when you think about it, 29 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 4: and also when you look at people like the chip Roys, 30 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 4: the Tom Massey's, the Andy Harris's, they drink their own bathwater. 31 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 4: You know they don't really drink Trump's bath water. Don't 32 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 4: sound good, No, it doesn't. But I think you know 33 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 4: a lot of people call the Freedom Caucus the Trump 34 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 4: Protection Caucus, but in reality, there are people there that 35 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 4: are very idealistic right their ideologues, and they also going 36 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 4: to do their own thing, and their districts are relatively safe. 37 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 4: So as we get closer to the mid terms, if 38 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 4: things aren't tracking the way they want based on their ideology, 39 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 4: based on what they're looking at. As far as the 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 4: deaf sit in the debt, you could see some issues 41 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 4: and I think there are going to be some arguments. 42 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 4: I don't think it guarantees Mike Johnson the speakership at all. 43 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 4: I think you're gonna I think, you know, if you 44 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,919 Speaker 4: look at Chip roy people forget Chip Royce certified the election, 45 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 4: you know, and Chip you know, his Freedom Caucus, and 46 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 4: he went against most of the Freedom Caucus to do that. 47 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 4: So I think again people need to realize, yes, Trump 48 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 4: does control the party almost completely, but you do have 49 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 4: people like the chip Roys and the Thomas Massis that 50 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 4: are going to do what they're going to do well. 51 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 2: So if there's no guarantee that Mike Johnson is the speaker, 52 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: then the Congress cannot begin, right. You have to have 53 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: the speaker to swear in the Congress, then the lawmakers. 54 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: There's also this thing coming down the pike called the 55 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: inauguration that's happening. Yeah, there's also going to be a 56 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: former president lying in state on January Not can any 57 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: of that happen if we don't have a speaker. 58 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 4: I think as far as with the former president, I 59 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: think that absolutely does happen. But as far as you know, 60 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 4: the multiple rounds of a speaker right at the beginning 61 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 4: of the Congress, I think it would be interesting because 62 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 4: what is the how many Republicans are going to be 63 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 4: sitting two nineteen or two twenty. So say you have 64 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 4: three or four, they're like, we don't want to do 65 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 4: this right now. We're going to demand some things. 66 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: Then you Democrats, there's not gonna be one Democrat that 67 00:02:58,919 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: votes from Mike Johnson first. 68 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 3: That's what Hockey Jeffrey. 69 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 4: Says, not one, not one, not one. It's not going 70 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 4: to happen. And I think that at this point when 71 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 4: we see what's already happening, what they called the magasivil 72 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 4: War and things like that is happening right now, it's 73 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: going to be very interesting to see how that does. 74 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: But you know what the first day of Congress is like, 75 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 2: you've done this. They bring the kids, they're singing songs together, right, 76 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 2: the big swear if it is raw raw, everyone feels great. 77 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: That's supposed to be the one day you feel good 78 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 2: about your job. And watch, well, what's it going to 79 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: be like this? 80 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: It's going to be miserable. 81 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 4: You know when I when miserable, miserable when I swore in. 82 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 4: You know, it was that long four to five hour wait. 83 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 4: Remember it was coming over from the Republican to the 84 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 4: Democratic Congress. When I came in, it was a long, 85 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 4: miserable day for me. It wasn't really a brilliant so 86 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 4: but I think it's going to be a miserable day. 87 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 4: I think you're going to have a lot of votes, 88 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: and I think it's. 89 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: Going to be many rounds either way. 90 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 4: I think it might be, but it depends on again, 91 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 4: if Comer can convince people. I hope he does a 92 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 4: better job than convince people in the Oversight Committee. But 93 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 4: if he, if he does a you know, a halfway 94 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 4: decent job in convincing people, maybe it's easy. But I 95 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 4: think I think they actually have to ramp up their 96 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 4: lobbying efforts pretty hard to get everybody on. 97 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: Board just to elect a speaker. 98 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: Not even passive piece of legs still elect a speaker. 99 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: A letislation is going to be a shit show. I mean, 100 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 3: it's well, you can't say that, No, it's all sorry. 101 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: Let me let me ask you about something else coming 102 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: January sixth. This is of personal import to you because 103 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: you were an advisor on the January sixth committee. 104 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: You also lived through that madness. 105 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: I just wonder what you make of the fact that 106 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: no one's talking about it. It is, you know, it's 107 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: it's something you know four years later, you would think 108 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: this would be. 109 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 3: A big deal. 110 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 4: This should be the biggest deal is what happened on 111 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 4: January sixth. I honestly don't foresee hair supporters storming the capitol, 112 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 4: you know, coming in for January sixth. But this should 113 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 4: be a huge deal. And I think part of it, 114 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: you know, I wonder a little bit. And I'm not 115 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 4: trying to be self deprecating or humble bragg everything. If 116 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 4: I haven't done enough based on the data that we saw, 117 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 4: and we still knew that, you know, years, you know, 118 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 4: two to three years after we really thought we'd see 119 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 4: more in action. When it came to action criminal, I 120 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 4: would say charges against certain individuals. You know, we had 121 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 4: phone records, we had text records. Those are at the 122 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 4: archives or wherever they're nested right now. But I have 123 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 4: to tell you, to me, it's the most important thing. 124 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 4: It's the way that I voted was because of January sixth. 125 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 4: It's what I've seen. It's why I wrote my book, 126 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 4: it's why I started my new company. Everything had to 127 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 4: do with what I saw was the lack of resourcing, 128 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 4: lack of technology, you know, the fact we couldn't get 129 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 4: what we needed to get. But the other good side 130 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 4: of that was we had enough to do to identify 131 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: some of the real bad actors at the command and 132 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 4: control level. But I have to tell you, I think 133 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 4: people want to forget, and I think it should be 134 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 4: something we remember every January sixth. But again, it's a 135 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 4: little surprising to me because for me, it's one of 136 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 4: the most important things to happen in American Pastor. 137 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 3: People want to forget. 138 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting whether you are fond of what happened 139 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: that day or not. Did Democrats want to forget that 140 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: because it's a difficult memory. 141 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: I think it was hard for them to run on it. 142 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: I don't think they could actually verbalize specifically why January 143 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: six was so important, which shocked me because for me, 144 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 4: relize it pretty easily. As you know, we've we've talked 145 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 4: about it before. But I wonder if America is on 146 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 4: the psychiatric couch right and are like, do you remember that, 147 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 4: like January sixth, twenty five one? What happened that day? 148 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: You know? 149 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 4: But it is really incredible to me. I think we 150 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 4: need to actually bring that more to the forefront, and 151 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 4: I think we need to revisit why that happened. The 152 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 4: disinformation right and the fact that you know, one in 153 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 4: five Americans have, don't you know, read below the sixth 154 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 4: grade level. I believe that's correct, and we have to 155 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 4: look at education and things that happened. But why did 156 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 4: people sack the capital based on fantasy? 157 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: It's not going to happen again this time around, not 158 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 3: that I see. 159 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 2: I just legislation would also prevent this from being Yeah, 160 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: matter of the vice president. 161 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's correct, that's right. Correct. 162 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: So what happens when all of the January sixth offenders 163 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 2: are pardoned? Is that something Donald Trump does? 164 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 4: I absolutely, I think in the outset, you know, I 165 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 4: think they'll say they'll go case by case, but I 166 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: think they're going to pardon I would say majority of 167 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 4: the January sixth, those who are convicted. I wonder about 168 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: those who actually beat law enforce. But it's going to 169 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: be very difficult. I think when you do these type 170 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 4: of pardons, how do you actually explain away those that 171 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: you pardon it actually you know, physically assaulted Capitol police. 172 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 4: You know, I know them many that were there, and 173 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 4: I do wonder how that's going to pan out. 174 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: It's been suggested that he leaves the biggest offenders right 175 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: where they are, just wouldn't be a blanket pardon. Do 176 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: you believe they go case by case through this matter? 177 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: We're talking about a lot of people here Denver. 178 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 4: I think they're going to I think they're going to 179 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 4: set a minimum threshold, and they're not going to go 180 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 4: case by case on that threshold. If it was people 181 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 4: just trespassed, I think they'll just pardon them. Yeah, you know, 182 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: carte blanche. And you know, for those who did the 183 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 4: more serious things, it does bother me if they do 184 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 4: get out. And I'm not for any partons on the 185 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 4: JA six individuals, but it's very difficult because it seems 186 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 4: every president pardons people that I never would. 187 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 3: Let's talk of preemptive pardons. Joe Biden. 188 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: I always hear the name Liz Cheney, then you hear 189 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: Adam Kinzinger, how about Denver Riggleman. 190 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, I've certainly had some threats 191 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 4: and I and you know, there's a possibil I'm subpoenad. Right, 192 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 4: as we saw Barry Loudermilks one hundred and twenty eight 193 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 4: page report, which I actually read. I know, people, I 194 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 4: know it's crazy, I read it, but it's ludicrous, right, 195 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 4: and Barry had you know, I know Barry, they have 196 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 4: some I guess they made some points on the defense 197 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 4: of the Capitol and some of those breakdowns they were correct. 198 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 4: But going after Liz Cheneys saying somehow she was meddling 199 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 4: that way is just ludicrous. It's it's absolutely what Donald 200 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 4: Trump wanted the committee to do. 201 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: But I so. 202 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: But I think as far as a preemptive partner, I 203 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 4: don't want one. 204 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 3: You don't, I don't. 205 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 4: I'd rather fight whine because I think I think people 206 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 4: need to stand up and you know, if you want 207 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 4: and I know there's some people who I would say, 208 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 4: you know, with Liz and and even with Adam, you know, 209 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 4: maybe a part pardon works in their favorites up to 210 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: them to have that. But for me, I'd rather the 211 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 4: bar fight right now. 212 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 3: The bar fight, Yeah, I'd rather that. 213 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 4: I mean, it's how I was raised. 214 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 3: You know, I didn't have a political career to run 215 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 3: a distillery. 216 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: I do run a distillery. We do make whiskey, and 217 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 4: I do have an AI company too, and so I 218 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 4: also pretty good with data. So if they want somebody 219 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 4: who makes whiskey and goes after bad people with data 220 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 4: up in Congress, who's a former congressman. 221 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: I'm happy to ablage. 222 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 4: You're going to get lunch with Elon to talk about this? Oh, 223 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 4: you don't you know what I would have lunch with Elon. 224 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 4: You know, I would tell him to stop posting you know, gobshite, right, 225 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: and you know, and I think a lot of that 226 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 4: has to do with, you know, the things that he's doing. 227 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: But yeah, i'd have lunch with Elon until what I thought, 228 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: what's going on with Elon Musk here? 229 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: We're already seeing a little bit of a breakdown over 230 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 2: the H one B situation. Yeah, the Maga versus Musk 231 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: situation seems tenuous. Well, a year or two from now, 232 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: will he still have the president's year? 233 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 3: No? 234 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: No, No, I mean the thing about H one b's 235 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 4: what's interesting. You know, he's going against some really big 236 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: packs on the far right, like Numbers USA and things 237 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 4: like that. But for me, I'm an H one B 238 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: H two A, an H two B supporter based on 239 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 4: our district's very rural, but we also have a lot 240 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 4: of technology in Virginia and the Commonwealth. And I mean 241 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 4: that's why I'm starting an exploratory committee to run for 242 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 4: state wide office. Is because of those type of issues. 243 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 4: So you know, those are the type of things you 244 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 4: know that excite me. 245 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: Well, hold on because I always reserve the last minute 246 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: or two of our conversations to ask you that last 247 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: thing that you know you may or may not want 248 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: to answer, because whether you've get a pardon or not, 249 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: will you have. 250 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: A political future? 251 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 4: You know, I didn't have one before when I want accidentally, so, 252 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 4: but I. 253 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: Think would you like to have a political future. 254 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 4: I think I would rather try to change the dynamic 255 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 4: of the two party system that seems to you know, 256 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 4: I would you know, Rain as a Republican. I got 257 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 4: to be behind the door with Trump. I was Republicans 258 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 4: for Harris and the things that I saw, you know, 259 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 4: on either side, which a lot of people say, actually 260 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 4: frighten me based on special interest. It always has when 261 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 4: I got into politics, not to the age of about 262 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 4: forty six forty seven. So yeah, I have a lot 263 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 4: of issues because I have individuals. I say a lot 264 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 4: of issues. There's probably going to be the sound by 265 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: people like but you know, but you know, I have 266 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 4: a lot of responsibilities, right, fiduciary responsibilities for my companies. 267 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 4: But that's why we start an exploratory committee, because I 268 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 4: think there needs to be somebody who's willing to drag 269 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 4: the acts and tell the truth, regardless if there's an 270 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 4: RD behind people's names. And that's why we're looking at 271 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 4: There's a lot of people, you know, who've asked me. 272 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 4: They don't have to force me. Nobody's going to force 273 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: me to do anything. But it was interesting to see 274 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 4: the amount of support I had just for an exploratory committee. 275 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 4: Tennant governor, well maybe Dad or who knows state wide. 276 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: Officer run the state of Virginia. 277 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 4: I don't know if I could with That's why we're 278 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 4: looking at conflicts of interests and stuff like that, but 279 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 4: lieutenant governor's absolutely a possibility. 280 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: There you have it from Denver Riggleman. Fascinating. 281 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 2: It would not be running as a Republican though right now, 282 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: or a Ridge Party or a Democrat storry running as 283 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: Denver frickin' Riggleman. The gentlemen from Virginia. It's always great 284 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: to see you here at the table. Happy New Year, 285 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for coming on New Year. 286 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: Thanks you're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast 287 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: kens Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and 288 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: then royd Oro with a Bloomberg Business app. You can 289 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New 290 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 291 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. We did hear from Joe Biden. 292 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 2: He's in Saint Croix, of course for the holidays. Address 293 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: the nation upon the news of Jimmy Carter's death. 294 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 5: Let's listen America in the world, have view lost a 295 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 5: remarkable leader? Well, I find extraordinary about Jimmy Carter, though 296 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,679 Speaker 5: millions of people all around. 297 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: The world, all over the world. 298 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 5: Feel they lost a friend as well, even though they 299 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 5: never met him. And that's because Jimmy Carter lived a 300 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 5: life measured not by words but by his deeds. 301 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: I want to add the voice of Honra Gillespie, Associate 302 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: professor of political science at Emory University, a frequent voice 303 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: on this program. Professor, it's great to see you. Welcome 304 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: back to Bloomberg TV and Radio. There are so many 305 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: comparisons We've been hearing them since before Jimmy Carter went 306 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 2: into hospice, to the Biden administration, Donald Trump himself, who 307 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: today had some nicer things to say about Jimmy Carter 308 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: constantly making that comparison. 309 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 3: Was it fair? 310 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 6: You know, I think in some ways people are going 311 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 6: to sort of use them as parallels because of their 312 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 6: relatively short terms. But Jimmy Carter and Joe Biden have 313 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 6: different things. When Joe Biden became President of the United States, 314 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 6: he came with decades of Washington experience, and I think 315 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 6: as we look to see what the legislative impact of 316 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 6: his policy agenda was, it's going to look different, though 317 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 6: it's going to be substantial as was President Carter's. You know, 318 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 6: President Carter came in as an outsider. He's coming in 319 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 6: off the heels of Watergate. He came in to set 320 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 6: a new tone, to try to help to restore trust 321 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 6: in American institutions that had been ravaged by mistakes that 322 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 6: President Nixon had made. And I think, you know, the 323 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 6: thing that's really going to distinguish President Carter from President 324 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 6: Biden is his post presidency. So, you know, looking at 325 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 6: the actuarial tables, Joe Biden isn't going to have the 326 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 6: type of post presidency that Jimmy Carter had. But Jimmy 327 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 6: Carter was able to build upon the record that I 328 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 6: think was unheralded while he served in office, but he 329 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 6: was able to build on that record to have, you know, 330 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 6: the gold standard for post presidencies. And you know, part 331 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 6: of that was because he was voted out of office. 332 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 6: He was in his mid fifties, and he had a 333 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 6: long life, and so he had a long time to 334 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 6: be able to cultivate a legacy around the world of 335 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 6: helping to promote democracy, eradicate disease, promote peace. 336 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: The longest lived former president in American history, he certainly 337 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: used the time. To your point, professor, how has that 338 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: changed the way we look at his actual presidency Because 339 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: everything you hear today, including the statement from Donald Trump, 340 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: well I didn't agree with this or I didn't think 341 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: he'd made the right decision here as president, but he 342 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: went on to convince me that he was a great 343 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 2: patriot and that he was to be trusted. 344 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 345 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 6: I mean, I think that was very gracious of incoming 346 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 6: President Trump. But it's also just the consistency and the 347 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 6: integrity with which he lived his life. I think that 348 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 6: that's probably going to be his greatest legacy. I think 349 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 6: people forget that in nineteen seventy six, people were still 350 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 6: reeling from Watergate, there were concerns, you know, about corruption. 351 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 6: Jimmy Carter presenting himself as a Baptist school teacher and 352 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 6: a born again Christian, and you know, even though it 353 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 6: was maligned at the time, the type of person who 354 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 6: really did try to live out his faith was something 355 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 6: that was supposed to be a refreshing reversal of course 356 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 6: for the United States. You know, when he was in office, 357 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 6: he was often accused of hectoring. So when we talk 358 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 6: about the energy crisis, his admonitions to Americans to turn 359 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 6: down thermostat and put on her sweater were not necessarily 360 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 6: particularly well worthy. But you know, when we think, you 361 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 6: know about what he was saying, he was saying this 362 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 6: all in good faith. And you know, even though he 363 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 6: was voted out of office in nineteen eighty, when he's 364 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 6: continuing to live that life and to live it consistently 365 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 6: and to try to do live out his faith as 366 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 6: best as he could, I think people saw the genuineness. 367 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 6: And you know, and that also manifested itself in terms 368 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 6: of the causes that they took up, so looking for 369 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 6: diseases that people weren't thinking about that affected people in 370 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 6: the developing world, going after the most vulnerable, helping to 371 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 6: amplify the efforts of habitat for humanity. This is a 372 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 6: person who kind of, you know, really tried to walk 373 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 6: the talk and to live out his faith in a 374 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 6: really exceptional way. And I think that that's part of 375 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 6: the reason why so many people had so much respect 376 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 6: for him. 377 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: The Camp David Accords, I think would be considered a 378 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: pretty remarkable success for any presidency, even if that was 379 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 2: the only thing he had to show for it. But 380 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 2: of course he had the Iranian hostage crisis that so 381 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: many people remember just as strongly, in fact more in 382 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: some cases. Here he said in twenty fifteen, I was 383 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 2: really taken by this professor one of the big regrets. 384 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 3: He had in his life. When asked if he had. 385 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: Any he said, quote, I wished I'd sent one more 386 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: helicopter to get the hostages. We would have rescued them, 387 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 2: and I would have been reelected. 388 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 3: Is that true? 389 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 6: So I would lead that up to my diplomatic historians 390 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 6: to say that. But I think you always think of 391 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 6: what you could do to help ease suffering for people, 392 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 6: and that certainly was a hallmark of President Carter's life. 393 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 7: You know, The truth is. 394 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 6: Is that there is sort of the symbol of the 395 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 6: hostages coming home as Ronald Reagan is being inaugurated into office, 396 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 6: and so there certainly is a certain centering in symbolism 397 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 6: there that one wish she could have avoided. And certainly 398 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 6: the inability to be able to get the hostages home 399 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 6: sort of contributed to this perception in some instances. And 400 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 6: I think, you know, in hindsight, was undeserved that President 401 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 6: Carter was feckless, and so that contributing to you know, 402 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 6: the stagnating economy at the time and the energy crisis certainly, 403 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 6: you know, made people feel a certain type of malaise 404 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 6: that I think we're familiar with today. And I think 405 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 6: the lesson of Carter, perhaps twenty years from now, the 406 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 6: lesson of Joe Biden, is we shouldn't necessarily make decisions 407 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 6: about presidents based on how we feel in the moment 408 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 6: or based on short term calculations. 409 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: Well, boy, that's a professor talking, if there ever was one. 410 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: You're talking to a journalist here, be careful, Udra Gillespie. 411 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 2: You know, can we remind our listeners and viewers by 412 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 2: the way that he never used the word malaise in 413 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: the so called malaise speech. 414 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 3: How did that happen? 415 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 6: So I defer to the historians about that, but it's 416 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 6: not certainly the first time that a word kind of 417 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 6: captures the zeitgeist, even if it wasn't directly said by you. 418 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 2: Know, gets back to the first draft of history, though, 419 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 2: doesn't it You don't always believe the analysis or don't 420 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: always fully invest yourself in the analysis that you're hearing 421 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 2: in real time. I think is the point that you're making, 422 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: and I'll try to underscore here in our remaining two moments. 423 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 3: Professor, talk to me about. 424 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: The relationship that Jimmy Carter had with Atlanta, the fact 425 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: that he went back the way that he did, and 426 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: then of course staged a post presidency that reinvented the 427 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: mall in his hometown. 428 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 6: Well, this is something that I've certainly benefited from. So 429 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 6: he you know, lived in Plains, but he set up 430 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 6: his presidential library at the Carter Center, which has a 431 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 6: connection to Emory University, where I work. President Carter was 432 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 6: on the faculty. So every year, as long as he 433 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 6: was physically able to do so, he gave a convocation 434 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 6: to all of our freshman students. It was certainly a 435 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 6: treat to be able to attend one of those events 436 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 6: all the freshmen had to attend. President Carter made himself 437 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 6: available to faculty. He would invite you to lunch. He 438 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 6: would also inform you if he was going to teach 439 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 6: your class. And so I remember getting that email one 440 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 6: year telling me President Carter's coming to your classes such 441 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 6: and such a day. And you know, my one regret 442 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 6: from that, I learned from a colleague who had to 443 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 6: happen to her a couple of years later, is that 444 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 6: I didn't video record that lecture. But the things that 445 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 6: he said in that lecture in my class I still 446 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 6: repeat to my students, you know, even more than a 447 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 6: decade later. 448 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: That's really wonderful. I'm glad you could share that memory 449 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 2: with us. Sondrick Gillespie, thank you so much, professor. It's 450 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: good to see you from Emory University. Of course in Atlanta. 451 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 452 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on AMO car Play 453 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: and then Froud. 454 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 3: Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. 455 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 456 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 457 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 3: Thanks for being with us. 458 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: On a Monday edition of Balance of Power, as we 459 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: had the voice of Ashley Davis, the Republican strategist, of 460 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: course you've heard from many times on this program, with 461 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: a slightly different take on things today as we consider 462 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 2: the legacy of a democratic president. She's of course founding 463 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: partner Westfront Strategies. Great to see Ashley. I hope you're 464 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: having a great holiday season, and we'll get to Jimmy Carter. 465 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: I just wonder your thoughts on what's going on in 466 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: the house here. Did Mike Johnson just close the deal? 467 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 2: Is he a made man? 468 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 4: Well? 469 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 8: First of all, Happy New Year, and I wish I 470 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 8: was with you in person. I'm in cold weather right now. 471 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 8: But I actually think it helps him a lot. Obviously, 472 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 8: the President elect understands that if he wants to get 473 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 8: his agenda done, or actually get anything done in the 474 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 8: first hundred days of his administration, that we have to 475 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 8: have a house in place right away. And Speaker Johnson 476 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 8: is the one that would do the best job in 477 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 8: regards to not having chaos of an election. And I mean, 478 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 8: how many times was did it take for McCarthy to 479 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 8: get first time? Eleven or thirteen? I forget the number 480 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 8: right now. But the only other name is Stephanie was saying, 481 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 8: names do pop up. The only other name that I 482 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 8: think would kind of appease some of these conservatives on 483 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 8: the right, which there aren't that many, but you don't 484 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 8: need that many to upend his speakership is Jim Jordan, 485 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 8: and he has said several times that he is not 486 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 8: going to run against Speaker Johnson. So I do think 487 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 8: that President Trump coming out today was a huge win 488 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 8: for them, But I also think it's self serving because 489 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 8: it's not going to help President Trump to have chaos 490 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 8: going into his new administration. 491 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 3: Well, Mike Lawler agrees with you. The Republican from New. 492 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: York was on ABC this week asked about this very matter, Ashley. 493 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 3: Here's what he said. 494 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 9: Mike Johnson inherited a disaster when Matt Gates and several 495 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 9: of my colleagues teamed up with two hundred and eight 496 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 9: Democrats to remove Kevin McCarthy, which will go down as 497 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 9: the single stupidest thing I've ever seen in politics. With 498 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 9: that said, Mike Johnson would equally be as stupid. 499 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 3: That's quite a statement, I have to admit, Ashley. Do 500 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 3: you agree with it? 501 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 8: Yeah, I would probably not use as extreme words, but 502 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 8: it wasn't smart, and it's not going to be smart again. 503 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 8: I mean, and if you look at this, this is 504 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 8: like Chip Roy, this is I'll be interesting to hear 505 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 8: what congress In Fleischmann says to you. You said he's 506 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 8: coming up next, because he's obviously considered a conservative member, 507 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 8: but not a destructionist, so I'm assuming he thinks it's 508 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 8: a good idea. Moving forward to Speaker Johnson thing in place. 509 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 3: Not a destructionist. Fascinating use of that word, Ashley. 510 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the big debate that's 511 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 2: broken out over immigration here, and I'm not referring to 512 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: border security. I'm referring to actual legal immigration. People who 513 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: watch this program know that you have a long history 514 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 2: in the national security space and helped to bring about 515 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: the Department of Homeland Security, and this idea of H 516 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: one B versus suddenly being extremely controversial as a component 517 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: of this border issue is really interesting. Elon Musk of course, 518 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 2: suggesting that we lift the cap on these H one 519 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 2: b's bring in foreign based talent to help us, particularly 520 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: in high tech, but that runs counter to what a 521 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: lot of the MAGA world thinks. A ought to be 522 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: happening when it comes to the border in America. First, 523 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: how do you square this from where you're. 524 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 8: Sitting, Yeah, I think that this is totally getting combined 525 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 8: into one conversation that really shouldn't be because the visas 526 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 8: that Elon and the Vager speaking about the HB one, 527 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 8: they're actually legal visas that are sponsored by companies and 528 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 8: corporations to bring talent in. And the MAGA side of 529 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 8: the party, that and many others not just MAGA that 530 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 8: are concerned about border security, in my mind, are people 531 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 8: that are coming over here illegally. So I really think 532 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 8: it's important to split the topic up because it's one 533 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 8: does not have anything to do with the other one. 534 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 8: You have sixty five thousand available HB one visas every 535 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 8: year to apply to and you get a three year 536 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 8: That visa last three years, and you have actually one 537 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 8: more chance to extend it another three years. But otherwise, 538 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 8: it's not that people are coming across the border illegally, 539 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 8: staying here and not being able to be found. Obviously 540 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 8: the ones that commit crimes that are here as well, 541 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 8: So it's a different program. So I agree with Elon 542 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 8: and Vivek on this, and I guess the President. 543 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: Noted duly noted. 544 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: But now that Elon Musk and the vike Ramaswami have 545 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 2: kicked the nest on this, we have an active debate 546 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: going on over work visas, whether they're skilled or not. 547 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 2: And Donald Trump was talking about dreamers in the only 548 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: interview he's done since being elected, is something that he 549 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 2: would work with Democrats on. So it sounds to me 550 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 2: actually like just shutting down the border is not enough. 551 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: Is the answer not comprehensive imag reform. 552 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 8: I think the comprehensive immigration reform, I mean, in two 553 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 8: thousand and seven was the closest that that ever was 554 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 8: becoming true to reality when when Senator Kennedy then President 555 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 8: Bush almost did strike a deal. I think that a 556 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 8: win for President Trump is in this first year right away, 557 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 8: which is why I think reconciliation will happen. I think 558 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 8: there's two buckets that will happen. Per your earlier conversation 559 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 8: with Stephanie, I think they'll do border first, along with energy. 560 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 8: But the reason why is if you get the million 561 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 8: illegal immigrants that are in this country out of the 562 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 8: country the first year that have committed a crime or 563 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 8: have completely exhausted the appealed process. That's a million people 564 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 8: that can go out right away, which is a huge 565 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 8: win for Trump. So if he does that and then 566 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 8: work slowly over the next three years trying to find 567 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 8: and round up all these other people that have come 568 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 8: over here illegally, I think that's going to be phase two. 569 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 8: But if you deal with eight be one visas, or 570 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 8: if you deal with Dreamers, I mean, that's a whole 571 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 8: that's in my mind is stage three, four five. You've 572 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 8: got to get rid of these top ones first and 573 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 8: second that have committed crimes in this country. 574 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: Rick Davis's ears are burning after I said comprehensive immigration reform. 575 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 2: As we spend time with Ashley Davis, I haven't asked 576 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 2: you about Jimmy Carter. Ashley, what do you make of 577 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 2: the constant comparisons, by the way, not just today, but 578 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: for the balance of Joe Biden's administration being compared to 579 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter. 580 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 3: Is that fair? 581 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: Now? 582 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 8: I think listen, and I said this before in my 583 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,160 Speaker 8: show President Bush. My boss used to always say, let 584 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 8: history make this decision on what I've done. And I 585 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 8: think that Jimmy Carter will go down in history as 586 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 8: do and even today yesterday when he passed away. There's 587 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 8: many people that believe in many things that he did. 588 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 8: I think during the campaign, when people were criticizing President Biden, 589 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 8: they were giving him, obviously an insult saying that President 590 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 8: Carter never did anything to this country. What you said 591 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 8: earlier in what Stephanie said in regards to President Trump 592 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 8: giving his condolences, being part of this club is a 593 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 8: very lonely club, and I think that there are many 594 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 8: country that do respect this. You see that the funeral 595 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 8: will be on January ninth. Obviously the stock market will 596 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 8: be closed. Does that mean you get off on the ninth, 597 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 8: Joe Mark. 598 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 3: I don't think so. We're going to call you to join. 599 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 8: Us, actually, but I think that it was more of 600 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 8: an insult to President Biden than it was, to go 601 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 8: back to your question, than it actually was about Jimmy Carter. 602 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 8: He'll go down in history of maybe making some mistakes, 603 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 8: but also doing some good things. 604 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 3: Huh. 605 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 2: Do you think that Trump's statement about Jimmy Carter was 606 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: more of an insult to Joe Biden? 607 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying during. 608 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 8: The campaign when he was being when he was being 609 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 8: compared to Jimmy Carter, the statement that he made yesterday 610 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 8: I thought was very appropriate. 611 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 3: Well, so what's the lesson here? 612 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 2: And you know, I always saved the easy question for 613 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 2: last when we're out of time, Ashley. But I keep 614 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 2: hearing from people Democrats and Republicans who say, you know what, 615 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: the lasting impression is that he had dignity, that people 616 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 2: trusted his word, that he was a nice guy. 617 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 3: What am I supposed to take from that in this 618 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: age in Washington? 619 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 8: Well, I mean, obviously there's lots of criticism, but I'm 620 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 8: reading this book right now actually talking about all the 621 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 8: various presidents that have gone down and saying there was 622 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 8: an integrity or there wasn't they weren't patriotic enough. I mean, 623 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 8: how many people hated Ronald Reagan that now the entire 624 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 8: Republican Party runs on being Ronald Reagan? 625 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 3: Asked? 626 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 8: So I think again, this to me goes back on time. 627 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 8: Heals a lot of wounds and a lot of memories 628 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 8: are short. 629 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 3: How true? 630 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 2: Joining us live from the Matterhorn Ashley Davis, founding partner 631 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 2: West Front Strategies. It's great to see you, Ashley. Happy 632 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 2: New Year, and we'll see you in twenty twenty five 633 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: because we're going to have a lot to talk about. 634 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast kens 635 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern CarPlay and then Roudoo 636 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live 637 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Jo 638 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 639 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where we do have breaking 640 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 2: news on the new Congress, or so we think we do. 641 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: In any other world this would be a deal closer, 642 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 2: and it may well be in this case. As the 643 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 2: President elect, Donald Trump throws his complete, I believe, total 644 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 2: and complete, as he termed it, endorsement behind Mike Johnson 645 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: and his bid to be the Speaker of the House 646 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 2: in the new Congress, something we want to discuss, among 647 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: other issues with the gentleman from Tennessee. Republican Congressman Chuck 648 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: Fleischman is with us right now live on Bloomberg TV 649 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: and Radio as he prepares to make tracks back to 650 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: the nation's capital. Congressman, it's good to see you. I 651 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: hope you had a great Christmas, and I hope you're 652 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: on the threshold of a great New Year's. 653 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 3: In the meantime, we have some business to talk about here. 654 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: Is this a deal closer for Mike Johnson to carry 655 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: the gavel in this new Congress. 656 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 7: I feel so good about President Trump's strong and unequivocal endorsement. 657 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: I did the same thing this morning, right before him. 658 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 7: So I like to I send out a little tweet 659 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 7: to Mike Johnson, thanking him and saying, look, the great 660 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 7: news is is the president elect. President Trump and I 661 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 7: are on the same page once again. The reality is 662 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 7: we're going to have a one seat majority after the 663 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 7: three leave. It's going to be a tough Congress. Really, 664 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 7: this should be Mike Johnson's He's earned the job, he's 665 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 7: earned our trust, he's got my full support. But candidly, 666 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 7: getting Donald Trump's support is going to really really help 667 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 7: close this deal. It's a deal maker Without that endorsement. 668 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 7: I was a little bit concerned for Mike Johnson. Now 669 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 7: I feel very good about January third. 670 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting. 671 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: I don't think you're suggesting it was your idea here 672 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump to make that post of the time, 673 00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: I had. 674 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 3: An interest in Congressman, but yeah, you're not the only one. 675 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 2: Though, a lot of people were trying to get to 676 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. A lot of folks were trying to say 677 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 2: good things about Mike Johnson within the conference, including Jim Comer, 678 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 2: and you can finish your statement if you want here. 679 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: But Comer said, just as recently as yesterday, we have 680 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: five Republicans that won't commit to voting for Mike Johnson. 681 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 3: Does Donald Trump bring them over? 682 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 7: I think he is so persuasive, and if he doesn't 683 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 7: bring them all, I think ultimately he'll bring most of them. 684 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 7: You have to look at the situation say, if not 685 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,720 Speaker 7: Mike Johnson, who or whom? And then that big blank 686 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 7: is out there who can get to that magic number? 687 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 7: And it's not going to be easy, So we don't 688 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 7: want to go fifteen rounds. I was very active in 689 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 7: the fifteen round fight to get McCarthy made speaker, actually 690 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 7: helped him in that. In fact, I was one of 691 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 7: the last people to go and speak with Matt Gates 692 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 7: and plead with him and actually went well at that time, 693 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 7: didn't go so well later. But the reality is we 694 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 7: need a strong, unified message because candidly, the way it works, 695 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 7: the Democrats are watching on the other side of the aisle. 696 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 7: If they perceive weakness, they will take advantage of that, 697 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 7: and we don't need that. In order for President Trump 698 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 7: to have his strong agenda carried out, the House is 699 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 7: going to have to be that first step. 700 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 3: Getting Mike Johnson elected a. 701 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 7: Speaker I think will clearly clearly get that done. And then 702 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 7: of course in the Senate, I think sledding will be 703 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 7: much easier with that fifty three seed majority. 704 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about the agenda for a moment. 705 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: Then. 706 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 2: I know that Donald Trump and Mike Johnson were talking 707 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: about it at the Army Navy Game. I don't know 708 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: that anything has been hammered out for sure. Will Republicans 709 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 2: try to get their arms around the border first, Trump, 710 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 2: tax cut second, or both at the same time. 711 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 7: I think you start now. Of course President Trump will 712 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 7: choose his back order, but I think it's smart to 713 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 7: start with the easier tasks first. The border is easy 714 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 7: because Joe Biden in this administration have done such a 715 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 7: terrible job. It's porous, it's open. We've had millions and 716 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 7: millions of illegals come in. We have got to fix it. 717 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 7: And you've got the vast support of the vast majority 718 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 7: of the American people. Big cities, rural areas, we have 719 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 7: got to deal with this. It's a national security crisis. 720 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 7: Getting that done. I think the second thing should be 721 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 7: foreign policy. I think Trump is going to be very 722 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 7: strong in bringing peace to Ukraine and Russia. I think 723 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 7: he will have great credibility with both Putin and with Stelensky, 724 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 7: so I think that could be another early win. The 725 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 7: Middle East is another story. It's a very tumultuous region. 726 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 7: But Trump can take his best shot at that. I 727 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 7: think he'll do well there. Taxes is going to be 728 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 7: something else. It's going to be difficult. It's cumbersome. Our 729 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 7: tax code is cumbersome in and of itsa. We need 730 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 7: to preserve these Trump tax cuts that I actually voted 731 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 7: for in his first term. I think it's critically important 732 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 7: for our economy. But I think we will take these 733 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 7: in progression. We will test the waters, we will work 734 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 7: through the process, and hopefully have a good, strong first 735 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 7: one hundred days for President Trump. 736 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 2: There's a question about how wide to go on the 737 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: matter of immigration. Congressman, We've been dealing with the idea 738 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 2: of border security and a vacuum until Elon Musk brought 739 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 2: up the matter of H one B visus. These are, 740 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: of course the work visas that bring skilled talent from 741 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 2: other countries. I talked to your colleague, Haley Stevens, Democrat 742 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 2: from Michigan about this. 743 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 3: Here's what she said. 744 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 10: I'd say that Elon Musk maybe knows a thing or 745 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 10: two about it, given his immigration history, and given his 746 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 10: employment base, and given frankly, the role that his companies 747 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 10: are playing not just here in the United States of America, 748 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 10: but but across the world, and so we need access 749 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 10: to that talent. I think that could be very interesting. 750 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 10: It maybe be a smart move of the Republican governing 751 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 10: majority if they could do something for high skilled workers. 752 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: Is she write, Congressman, and should work visas be part 753 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 2: of this debate? 754 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 7: I have worked for work visas back when I was 755 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 7: the ranking member highest Republican on Homeland security appropriations. This 756 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 7: is something We've got a great talent pool that sometimes 757 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 7: we are educating in this country and then forcing a way. 758 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 7: I think Elon Musk is right on this. More importantly, 759 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 7: President Trump backed him up on this. We've got a 760 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 7: great talent pool. Let's face it, we are a nation 761 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 7: of immigrants. We wanted to be done legally, we wanted 762 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 7: to be done correctly, but We sure don't want to 763 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 7: educate a great talent pool and then send them back 764 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 7: to China or to India or anywhere else in the 765 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 7: world where they can glean the benefits of our great 766 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 7: educational system. So it is a process. Interestingly enough, the 767 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 7: pushback we originally got was not from Republicans, was from 768 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 7: pro labor Democrats who actually tanked a lot of what 769 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 7: Miss Stevens was talking about in those hearings. So we 770 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 7: took it right up to the edge many times and 771 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 7: tried to get it done. It was labor Democrats who 772 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 7: scuttled it. 773 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 3: It was not Republicans right up to the edge. Isn't 774 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 3: that the truth? Congressmen. 775 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 2: We're spending a lot of time this week on Bloomberg 776 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 2: talking about. 777 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 3: Winners and losers from the year. 778 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 2: On Wall Street, and among the biggest gainers, we saw 779 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: our companies, you know a little bit about Constellation Vistra 780 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: nuclear power providers that are suddenly in high demand because 781 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 2: of data centers, because of the need for clean renewable 782 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: energy to run data centers that are apparently going to 783 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: help pioneer the way forward when it comes to AI. 784 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: This is something I know is close to your heart 785 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 2: and you've worked closely on when it comes to utilities 786 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 2: and nuclear power specifically, what will this new Congress do 787 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 2: to make good on any bets that Wall Street is 788 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 2: making that growth is coming. 789 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,879 Speaker 7: Yes, I'm excited. So our listeners know what I do. 790 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 7: I'm the chairman of the Energy and Water Subcommittee of 791 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 7: Appropriations that funds the Department of Energy, funds all of 792 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 7: the nuclear power and new nuclear technologies. This is what 793 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 7: I do in Congress. I've had the privilege of speaking 794 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 7: with Elon Musk about this. I've spoken with other folks. 795 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 7: I've had one on one conversations with President Trump in 796 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 7: his first administration, actually even on Air Force one about 797 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 7: this and wrote a paper for him. Chris Wright, the 798 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 7: new incoming Secretary of Energy, very bright, very capable, very 799 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 7: solicitous of nuclear. He has previously sat on the board 800 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 7: of some nuclear companies. So I am bush on new nuclear. 801 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 7: But what does that mean? That means, Joe, we have 802 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 7: got to get it right. There's a lot of designs 803 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 7: out there, there are a lot of dollars out there. 804 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 7: If you look at the fiscal twenty twenty five bill 805 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 7: that I wrote, I structured it on appropriations to basically 806 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 7: we continue to fund new nuclear about nine billion dollars 807 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 7: eight point nine billion dollars specifically. Specifically for that, we've 808 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 7: got to make a delineation. Though we need big new 809 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 7: nuclear like the Vocal plant, we need to build big plants, 810 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 7: we need to build smaller plants, and we're looking at microreactors. 811 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 7: The bottom line is American technology in this area is superior. 812 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 7: Our adversaries are moving ahead in this meaning Russia and China, 813 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 7: but our friends are as well, the French, the South Koreans. 814 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 7: They are moving into this sector and doing a good job. 815 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 7: The bottom line is I think we need public profit partnerships. 816 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 7: We need to invest in that. I do think the 817 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 7: markets will respond to that. We have just got to 818 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 7: make sure we picked the right technologies. If we pick 819 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 7: the wrong ones, we will lose. 820 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good answer, Congressman, I've got less than 821 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 2: a minute. Is Donald Trump on board with nuclear? 822 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 7: I think so. Donald Trump is great, He's on all 823 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 7: of the above. When I'm going to do is create 824 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 7: an additional an eighth energy caucus. I've got several in Congress. 825 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 7: I'm going to call this the American Dominance in Energy Caucus. 826 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 7: It's designed to parallel Donald Trump's Energy Council that Governor 827 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,960 Speaker 7: Burgham is going to chair. The reason we want to 828 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 7: do that is make sure that all of the above 829 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 7: means all of the above. 830 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 831 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 832 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 833 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 834 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.