WEBVTT - #139 Jason Flom with Terrel Barros 0:00:02.000 --> 0:00:05.519 August twenty six, twenty twelve, started off as a relatively 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.360 normal night. Terrell Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence, 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:12.360 Rhode Island, with Stephan Boden and some other friends, and 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.479 disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem Henley 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.880 and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over until 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.520 later in the parking lot. See Stephan Boden wanted his 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.520 cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:30.560 because that's where they were, so he left ahead of 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.519 the group, and as fate would have it, who was 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.200 parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:41.320 were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.800 friends though, were just arriving on the scene and trying 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.519 to avoid the drama, so Terrell made for the driver's 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:51.880 side door, and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.160 driver's seat and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side. 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.279 Seconds later, the cops were at the car and they 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.320 saw Stephan trying to hide the gun. Stephen confessed on 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.240 the spot to the shooting as both men were cuffed. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:10.039 An intoxicated and mortally wounded. Jamal Cruz had put his 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:14.119 head down when shown Terrell, a far cry from an identification, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.800 but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.960 about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:28.760 Stefan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:33.080 ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day, 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:39.120 serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:52.720 Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.320 with Jason Flamm. Today we're going to be discussing the 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.880 really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, who was awfully convicted 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.520 of a shooting in which one person was killed and 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:08.000 another was badly injured. And with us today we have 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.080 a student at Georgetown who's been doing incredible work investigating 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.080 his case under the leadership of my friend, Professor Mark Howard. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.920 So Nurgena Hendy, Welcome. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:19.720 To the show, Thank you, Jason. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.240 The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.359 taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.079 from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff, 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.440 and of course, this class was directly responsible for the 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.760 exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode, 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.160 please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.640 we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.799 Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.440 very hard to get to the phones in prison, but 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.040 we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:59.600 him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:00.800 two twelve. 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:06.040 Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.200 group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.640 Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.200 of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.079 members of another group, including the two that got shot. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:22.679 One was Rokim Henley, who got shot in the leg 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.880 and who I spoke with a couple of times over 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.919 the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.240 up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.120 that verbal altercation. It was Stephanboden who was and so 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.720 a name was called someone's hat got tapped off their 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.520 head and then no one really stays. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.800 There's not a physical altercation at all. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.280 Later on in the night, Stefan Boden asked Terrell, he goes, hey, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.520 let me get the tack to go get your car keys. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:53.040 So as he's heading over, there is another car that 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:57.000 is parked bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.880 just happens to be the car of Jamal Cruz. Stephen 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:06.920 thought that Jamal and Roekeim were coming to cause problems 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.880 when reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.040 grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:17.520 them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.320 starts heading over to his car with his group of friends. 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.279 Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Steffan 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.320 Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.880 him as well, and he's actually walking to get to 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:31.680 the other side of his car to hop in the 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.640 driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.200 happen he doesn't want to be a part of it. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.040 He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.040 seat and almost immediately Stephan jumps into the passenger seat, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.039 and the cops are there to arrest them. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.200 And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.039 into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.240 moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.880 Terrell for sort of involving him in this. 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:01.120 Yeah, you know. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.960 At this point, the arresting officers are on either side 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.560 and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.320 caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:14.880 Stepan actually confesses on the scene. 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.040 He said it's me. It's all me, It's all mine. 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.279 Yet they are both arrested, taken to a paddy wagon, 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.240 and then there's a show up that is done. Now 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.000 they spoke with a couple of jury members who told 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:32.160 me this is what caused us to believe Terrell is guilty. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.200 So in the show ups, they bring Stephan over to Jamal, 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:40.400 who was in critical condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.599 and they say, is this the man that shot you? 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.280 And Jamal looks away. Apparently when they bring over Terrell, 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:50.800 Detective Matrasia says, Jamal. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.200 Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.359 if he nodded or not. He was in no position 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.120 to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.280 know if he did. It's not like he stuck his 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:03.839 finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me, 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:06.560 and he's out right, that's not what happened. 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.320 They actually did not even do a show up identification 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.080 with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:14.760 he was not in critical condition. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.240 They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.359 Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:26.200 figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.279 And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.520 this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand, 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:36.280 he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands. 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.120 And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:42.640 it's now in Terrell because of what they call a 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:43.919 dying declaration. 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:46.880 Terrell Owis says, he goes, there were two. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.680 Lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz, and I 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.240 feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.320 This is a free call from Roe and inmate at 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:06.040 Maximum Security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:07.400 start the conversation. Now. 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.960 I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:16.040 have limited time, so let would get right to it. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.240 Can you take us back to the awful night of 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.200 this crime and give us your perspective having lived through 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:24.400 this night, mayor yourself. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.280 Well, back at that night, the two dudes approached. You know, 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.840 we're talking to Stephan about something. The problem wasn't with me, 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.440 so you went outside in the front of the club. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.960 Stephanim one of my keys to go get it a cigarettes. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.720 So when we go to the PA, the two dudes approaching. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.360 So I see them two dudes. Oh my god, man, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.560 here we go. So I turned around to go with 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.680 jobside and the car, and I hear shots. So I 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.320 just run into my car, just got run to my pa. 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.000 Pop is like he had the gun on me, and 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:56.120 put your hands on stading wheel. I put my hands 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.480 on stading whil and he keeps on saying it but 0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:01.480 he's talking to stuff, and so he puts his hands 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.480 on the standing wheel and he's like, yo, I'm sorry, 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.800 I'm sorry, I love you, I love you. The police 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.600 officers hot and up and he's like, oh yo, the passions. 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:10.880 He's got the gun. So as soon as he opens 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.120 up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me, 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.240 It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah, 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.480 it's me. So when he took him out, he's already 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.080 han't come from the other cop that had the gun 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.120 on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist, 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.760 my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.120 back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot. 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.600 I didn't know no one was shot. I could see 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.719 blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.480 the chest, and this dude's like doing a show up 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.200 with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.559 shin the sin the shim. The guy just looked at 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.040 me and puts his head down. He ain't saying nothing. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.440 He didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:51.200 put his head down. So then they had put me 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.120 back into paddy wagon. They bring me back to the station. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.240 When they bring back to the station, you know they 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.600 do the mob shot the fingerprints. Whether they got me 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.800 to a room with two detectives. I asked for my 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:04.439 lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the lead to 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.800 He was the one that questioned me the first time 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:08.640 in the first night. So he's like, oh, you know 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.120 he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:10.400 I'm like no. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.960 He's like, you want water. I'm like no, and he 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:15.320 catched on, chya talk to me, and I'm like, I 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.280 want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.080 So he leaves the room and he comes back and 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.480 he brings back to holding himself. So it's one of 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.640 the times I'm like, yo, I'm banging on the door. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.360 Cop comes. He's like, what you're banging on. I'm like, 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.679 I want my phone call. He's like phone call. I'm 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.920 like yeah, He's like, are you getting plenty phone calls? 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.560 Were aure going. I'm like, where am I going. He's like, 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:41.480 you're gonna chill? What the hell? They bring me in 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.400 the bus. They chanceport me there and I find out 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.400 Monday the raiment that I'm getting charged with murder. I 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.400 go up into the court room, had to split up. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.240 Stephan was on the west sides on the right side. 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.440 So they reach Steff in his charges seventh bolroom possessing 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.240 a firearm and that was that and he goes with 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:05.120 Terrell Barrows first degree heard them, Paul showing everything I love. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.960 I did not do it. He admitted it on the 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.679 scene for the p that's the power. I don't understand. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.640 I don't understand it either, because it should have been 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:23.040 over right then and there, throw the phone, Okay. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:23.360 The caller has hung up. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:40.080 I have never and may never again hear of a 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:45.440 case in which the actual shooter skates on the charges 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.960 after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean, at that point, 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.120 this should be a very short podcast. That should be 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.000 the end of it. I mean, this would be funny, 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.360 except it's so freaking serious, right, And this is this 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.640 is the system that we all rely on day in 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.800 and day out. I'd like to believe that we have 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:07.000 people who are doing the job that they're paid to do. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.640 But in this case, it's absolutely true. It failed society, 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.120 it failed the victim, It failed to rell, and that's 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:16.920 what we're here to talk about. And then it gets 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.600 weirder because then you start with the eyewitness. The only 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.440 eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient, and he 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.040 initially claims he didn't see the shooting, and then changed 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.960 his testimony six days before the trial to say he 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.240 saw Torell do it. We have a document signed by 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.720 the assist Attorney General promising not to charge him for 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.920 perjury should he alter his testimony. That's maybe just a 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.880 little bit of a red flag there. Now get this, Okay, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:45.920 this Gregory's or obedient guy had, well, let's just call 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.200 it an extensive criminal history. But that might not even 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.360 be doing a justice. So his rap sheet went back 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:57.040 thirty years. It included convictions not arrest, convictions for living 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.120 off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larson, d ui 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:06.960 causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's just 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.400 the beginning. So do we think that after doing all 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:12.480 these other things he's done, he might be willing to 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.720 lie in exchange for a deal. I would say that's 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.480 a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to Detective 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.320 Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Jenna. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.440 He was actually the one who claims that he saw 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:29.400 Jamal cruz Nod. When they brought over Terrell, I asked herra, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.480 I said, yo, were you watching Jamal? He said yeah, 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:32.839 I was watching him. I said, did he not? He 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:34.800 said no, he didn't do anything. So whether he did 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.720 or did not is another story. But again, Jamal Cruz 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.439 was under the influence of alcohol. He had a BAC 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.120 of point one six', two which seems like a lot 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:44.719 until we look At, rokin who had to. 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:46.680 Actually HIRE bac as. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.640 Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.280 shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was, 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.280 in he was not the only one with two long black. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.280 Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:01.400 look at the pictures. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.000 Of his friend, group he's not the only one with 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.280 two long black. Braids and so out of a group 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.800 of people wearing white, shirts dark, pants two long black, 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.880 braids you're dying on the. Floor And Detective matrasia, says, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:16.240 yeah he nodded when we brought Over. TERRELL i, mean 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.520 how unreal could that? Be and so now we're moving 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:20.959 INTO gsr. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.640 TESTING gsr stands for gunshot, residue. 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:27.280 Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:31.160 they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.680 Stephan andterrell were initially, Arrested stefan was pulled out of 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.040 the car and he was slammed against the side of the. 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.800 Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled out of 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.720 the car and slammed to the, ground so he actually had. 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:47.880 Some dirt on his white shirt in a specific. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:52.679 Area what they initially test was the chest area of 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:57.280 Both terrell and Of stephan because the theory is if 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:00.280 someone is a shooter and they hold the gun right, 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.600 ahead that the gunshot residue will recoil and hit them 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.640 in the chest. Area so they talk about stuff and they, go, 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:09.120 well we found lead on stuffan and they, say, well 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.480 you also found lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.600 his attorney ask if they happened to find. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.240 The lead where my shirt was. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.800 Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.240 the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.400 so this is all the information they had in terms 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:30.040 OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence to, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.120 come which is part of what we are motioning for 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:34.800 with the new hearing coming. 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.200 Up, well we're on, initials, Right we'll go FROM gsr TO, 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.360 dna and THE dna report Excluded terrell from having held the. 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.320 Gun so let's touch for a second on THE dna 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.480 expert for the, state who we know was, WELL i, 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.600 mean most, unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro. Prosecution in, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.840 fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over eighty percent 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:01.680 of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the process there's 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.080 a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that you're seeing 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.280 may not be objective at. All and this is one 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.920 of those cases WHERE i think that there's a strong 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:13.760 argument to that. Effect, So, ujena can you talk about? 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:19.000 That, Yeah Kara lupino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.600 the way that she had presented. It the attorney would 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.680 ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and say, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.800 yes And torell was. Included and then you all of 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.640 a sudden get to the very very very end and 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.200 they really quickly sneak in a couple of lines Of 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.480 terrell was excluded And Stefan BODEN'S dna could not be. 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.480 Excluded so When i'm talking to the, juror she, GOES 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:44.600 i don't even really remember him being. Excluded it was so. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.680 Confusing there were a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.880 seemed to be included in almost every mixture that they're talking. 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.960 About it's absolutely, insane and IF i was in the, 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:55.680 JURY i would have thought the same. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:59.760 Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.720 was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:08.640 torell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem, 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.400 henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.120 testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of, 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.720 trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:20.080 been the. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.840 Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.040 same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.520 only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was Stefan. 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.880 Bodden SO i, said here's the. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.320 Discrepancy did you see who shot? 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:37.360 You he said. 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:43.560 NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:48.080 shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.160 and you are telling me that the only person standing 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.840 near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz Was Stefan. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.960 Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see him shoot the. 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.480 Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony you don't see 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.560 stuff and do, it but you also claim you did 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.679 not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell. Is 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.840 the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial so 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.159 if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot was 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.119 made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it is 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:20.879 impossible That terrell was the. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:26.040 Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.800 of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to, 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:35.200 overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:42.160 Years this is a free call from true an inmate 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:47.000 at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:52.000 may start the conversation, Now. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.800 Okay the investigators in your, Case, terrell it Was Detective 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.440 matrasha And Detective, angelo, right. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:02.600 Yeah, angelo though he was the leader of the, Case 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.760 matasha was the one that lied About, jamal saying it 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:08.840 was me at the show. Up so WHAT i was 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:10.760 told was this from a lot of, lawyers and they 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.520 all gave me the same. Answer you're in this. Situation 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:18.360 they tend this on. You it's because you asked for your. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.520 LAWYER i asked for my. Way that's not, Right they, said, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.080 yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to, 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.680 hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, here 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.480 so you could put any words in that man's mouth 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.639 you want because you can't put him on a stand 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.600 and cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.960 go on the stand and they, think, no they, know 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.280 they know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:45.440 the jury don't think that the cops are going to 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.160 go on to stand and, lie and that's what they. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:53.080 Did And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.359 even going on With George. Floyd this was in like twenty, 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:01.320 twelve twenty, thirteen so around that time that climate was, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.840 like oh, no the police ain't gonna lie on this, Kid. 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:10.560 Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.919 go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.400 the moment where the jury goes out and they come back. 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.840 In did you think that they were going to find you? 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:19.360 Innocent tell us about that. 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.080 Moment they bring me down and the elevator to the court. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.480 Room they can just feel like the tension in the 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.159 courtroom and the jury will come. In their faces are. 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:34.480 Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my, 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.600 family everybody was just, Like, noah he's. Innocent like they 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.080 just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and. Shocked 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.080 i'm in, shocked like everybody's standing. Up i'm the only 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:46.639 one sitting down and what got me out of the 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:53.680 chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo leva. Laughing SO i, said, 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.040 yo what do you think this is? Funny they just 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.439 looked at me AND i looked At jamaal's family AND 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.800 i turned around some AND i, SAID i didn't do 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.840 this to your. SON i promise. YOU i promise. YOU 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:07.439 i did not do this to your. SON i did 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.960 not do. This they didn't get justice for your. Son 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.280 they're lying to you and they're just looking at me 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.119 like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy so they're in that. 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.800 Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like hugged the brother like 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:22.120 like they want a Super, bowl smacking his back like, yeah, 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.680 yeah we got. Him And i'm just looking at him 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.360 like ye're lying into this family like this is a big, 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.680 lie like you just known an innocent kid guilty for 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.040 a time. Again do they just want a big? CONVICTION 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:35.800 i know they don't know WHY i didn't do, it 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.840 because the, prosecutors you, know when you see bogus, charges 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.879 but you still go forward with it because you want a. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:44.760 Conviction they don't care. 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:49.040 Yet What i'm. Say, yeah they're thinking about their, future their, 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.719 aspirations the way they can be, successful and they know 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.520 that's by having a good conviction rate by in. Large 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.400 but it's like it's some sort of six scoreboard and they're. 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:01.720 Decent oscar's out. There there are some really good ones, 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.880 Too but the ones that are willing to ignore evidence 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:09.800 of innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:11.840 to get another notch on their, belt just to move 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.480 up the, ladder Are they're a disgrace and they're actually 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:16.359 a menace to public. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:22.000 Safety they used on that they went off family to 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.600 make this. Family, yeah. 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:41.960 Like and as if this case couldn't get worse or. 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:47.080 Weirder Stephan bowden put out a. SONG i guess he 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.080 was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.120 on the murder rap and allowing his friend to rotten. Prison. 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.000 Right he wrote this song Called letter To. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:01.439 Terrel it's really more of a guilt, trip saying things 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:03.600 like we should have never went out to the club that. 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.960 Night it's painful that you're in that. Cell it's painful 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:08.879 on my, mother And i'm sorry that you. 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.640 Win that gym's painful on my, Mother BUT i think 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.040 about you every day IN. Nfe how is he? Out 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:16.080 interrell's in. 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.680 Prison Stefan boden is now. Dead he was shot in 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:21.800