1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: August twenty six, twenty twelve, started off as a relatively 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: normal night. Terrell Barrows was at Monet Lounge in Providence, 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Rhode Island, with Stephan Boden and some other friends, and 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: disagreement ensued between Stephan and two other clubgoers, Rokeem Henley 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: and Jamal Cruz, but the tension didn't boil over until 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: later in the parking lot. See Stephan Boden wanted his 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: cigarettes and he would ask Torell for his car keys 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: because that's where they were, so he left ahead of 9 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: the group, and as fate would have it, who was 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: parked right next to Terrell, but Jamal and Rokeem, who 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: were now ominously approaching. Terrell and the rest of his 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: friends though, were just arriving on the scene and trying 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: to avoid the drama, so Terrell made for the driver's 14 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: side door, and then gunshots. Terrell quickly ducked into the 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: driver's seat and Stephan bod jumped into the passenger side. 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: Seconds later, the cops were at the car and they 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: saw Stephan trying to hide the gun. Stephen confessed on 18 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: the spot to the shooting as both men were cuffed. 19 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: An intoxicated and mortally wounded. Jamal Cruz had put his 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: head down when shown Terrell, a far cry from an identification, 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: but that didn't stop a detective from testifying a trial 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: about a quote unquote dying declaration. The state even ignored 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Stefan Boden's immediate and uncoerced confession, forging blindly ahead to 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: ultimately send Torell to prison, where he remains to this day, 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: serving two consecutive life sentences plus thirty years. This is 26 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction 27 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: with Jason Flamm. Today we're going to be discussing the 28 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: really troubling case of Terrell Barrows, who was awfully convicted 29 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: of a shooting in which one person was killed and 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: another was badly injured. And with us today we have 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: a student at Georgetown who's been doing incredible work investigating 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: his case under the leadership of my friend, Professor Mark Howard. 33 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: So Nurgena Hendy, Welcome. 34 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 2: To the show, Thank you, Jason. 35 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: The Georgetown class that Nurgenna is a student in is 36 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: taught by Mark Howard and a name that you'll recognize 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: from being on our show more than once. Marty Tankleff, 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: and of course, this class was directly responsible for the 39 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: exoneration of Valentino Dixon. If you haven't heard his episode, 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: please go back and listen to it. It's extraordinary. So 41 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: we hope to be hearing from Terrell Barrows very soon. 42 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: Of course, in this COVID time that we're in, it's 43 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: very hard to get to the phones in prison, but 44 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: we will be discussing his case and hopefully hearing from 45 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: him as the podcast progresses. So let's go back to 46 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: two twelve. 47 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 3: Back in August of twenty twelve, Terrell Barrows and a 48 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 3: group of friends headed out to Monet Lounge in Providence, 49 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: Rhode Island. While they're in the club, there's some sort 50 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: of verbal altercation between Terrell's group and a couple of 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 3: members of another group, including the two that got shot. 52 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 3: One was Rokim Henley, who got shot in the leg 53 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 3: and who I spoke with a couple of times over 54 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: the past few months, and then Jamal Cruz who ended 55 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: up dying that night. But Terrell wasn't a part of 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: that verbal altercation. It was Stephanboden who was and so 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: a name was called someone's hat got tapped off their 58 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: head and then no one really stays. 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: There's not a physical altercation at all. 60 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: Later on in the night, Stefan Boden asked Terrell, he goes, hey, 61 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: let me get the tack to go get your car keys. 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: So as he's heading over, there is another car that 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: is parked bumper to bumper with Terrell's car, and it 64 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 3: just happens to be the car of Jamal Cruz. Stephen 65 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: thought that Jamal and Roekeim were coming to cause problems 66 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 3: when reality they were just walking to their car. Stefan 67 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 3: grabs the gun and you know, witnesses say he told 68 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 3: them don't come any closer. And at this point Terrell 69 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: starts heading over to his car with his group of friends. 70 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 3: Terrell is about ten to fifteen feet away from Steffan 71 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 3: Bowden and Jamal Cruz, which is where all eyewitnesses placed 72 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 3: him as well, and he's actually walking to get to 73 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: the other side of his car to hop in the 74 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 3: driver's seat because he knows that there's trouble about to 75 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: happen he doesn't want to be a part of it. 76 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 3: He hears two gun shots, he jumps into the driver's 77 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 3: seat and almost immediately Stephan jumps into the passenger seat, 78 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 3: and the cops are there to arrest them. 79 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: And there's more to this too, because when Stephan jumped 80 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: into the passenger seat, he had it sort of a 81 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: moment of self awareness right where he started apologizing to 82 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: Terrell for sort of involving him in this. 83 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. 84 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 3: At this point, the arresting officers are on either side 85 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: and the gun is still with Stephan Bowden. He is 86 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: caught concealing the gun in the passenger side door, and 87 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: Stepan actually confesses on the scene. 88 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 2: He said it's me. It's all me, It's all mine. 89 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 3: Yet they are both arrested, taken to a paddy wagon, 90 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 3: and then there's a show up that is done. Now 91 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: they spoke with a couple of jury members who told 92 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: me this is what caused us to believe Terrell is guilty. 93 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 3: So in the show ups, they bring Stephan over to Jamal, 94 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: who was in critical condition on the floor, extremely intoxicated, 95 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 3: and they say, is this the man that shot you? 96 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 3: And Jamal looks away. Apparently when they bring over Terrell, 97 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: Detective Matrasia says, Jamal. 98 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: Nods, that's what they say he did. It doesn't matter 99 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: if he nodded or not. He was in no position 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: to make any identification of anyone, and we still don't 101 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: know if he did. It's not like he stuck his 102 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 1: finger out and went, yeah, that's the guy who shot me, 103 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: and he's out right, that's not what happened. 104 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: They actually did not even do a show up identification 105 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: with the other guy, Rokeim Henley, who was shot and 106 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: he was not in critical condition. 107 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: They also didn't bother to swab the hands of either 108 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: Terrell or Stephan, right, that would be so critical to 109 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: figuring out who did or did not commit this horrible crime. 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 3: And Jason, I think it was clear to arresting officers 111 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: this had to have been Stephan. It was in his hand, 112 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 3: he confesses. That's probably why they didn't even swab their hands. 113 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 3: And then you know, somehow the story gets twisted and 114 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: it's now in Terrell because of what they call a 115 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 3: dying declaration. 116 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: Terrell Owis says, he goes, there were two. 117 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: Lives lost that night, Mine and Jamal Cruz, and I 118 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: feel bad because Jamal Cruz didn't get justice. 119 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 4: This is a free call from Roe and inmate at 120 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 4: Maximum Security facility. Thank you for using securists. You may 121 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 4: start the conversation. Now. 122 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: I love Heyterrell, thanks for calling in. I know we 123 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: have limited time, so let would get right to it. 124 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: Can you take us back to the awful night of 125 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: this crime and give us your perspective having lived through 126 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: this night, mayor yourself. 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 5: Well, back at that night, the two dudes approached. You know, 128 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 5: we're talking to Stephan about something. The problem wasn't with me, 129 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 5: so you went outside in the front of the club. 130 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 5: Stephanim one of my keys to go get it a cigarettes. 131 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 5: So when we go to the PA, the two dudes approaching. 132 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 5: So I see them two dudes. Oh my god, man, 133 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 5: here we go. So I turned around to go with 134 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 5: jobside and the car, and I hear shots. So I 135 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 5: just run into my car, just got run to my pa. 136 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 5: Pop is like he had the gun on me, and 137 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 5: put your hands on stading wheel. I put my hands 138 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 5: on stading whil and he keeps on saying it but 139 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 5: he's talking to stuff, and so he puts his hands 140 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 5: on the standing wheel and he's like, yo, I'm sorry, 141 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I love you, I love you. The police 142 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 5: officers hot and up and he's like, oh yo, the passions. 143 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 5: He's got the gun. So as soon as he opens 144 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 5: up the door, Stephan says, it's me. It's all me, 145 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 5: It's all mine. He's like it's shoot. He's like, yeah, 146 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 5: it's me. So when he took him out, he's already 147 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 5: han't come from the other cop that had the gun 148 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 5: on us. He comes, he flashed the cuffs on the wrist, 149 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 5: my wrists and slings me on the floor. Brings it 150 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 5: back to the paddy wagon. There's a guy that was shot. 151 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 5: I didn't know no one was shot. I could see 152 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 5: blood every this dude's hurt. So this dude shot in 153 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 5: the chest, and this dude's like doing a show up 154 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 5: with this guy shot in the chest, asking him this 155 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 5: shin the sin the shim. The guy just looked at 156 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 5: me and puts his head down. He ain't saying nothing. 157 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 5: He didn't do nothing. He ain't saying nothing. He just 158 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 5: put his head down. So then they had put me 159 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 5: back into paddy wagon. They bring me back to the station. 160 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 5: When they bring back to the station, you know they 161 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 5: do the mob shot the fingerprints. Whether they got me 162 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 5: to a room with two detectives. I asked for my 163 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 5: lawyer to touch his Angelo Levon was the lead to 164 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 5: He was the one that questioned me the first time 165 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 5: in the first night. So he's like, oh, you know 166 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 5: he wants cigarette. You want a cigarett. 167 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm like no. 168 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 5: He's like, you want water. I'm like no, and he 169 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 5: catched on, chya talk to me, and I'm like, I 170 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 5: want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. I want my lawyer. 171 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 5: So he leaves the room and he comes back and 172 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 5: he brings back to holding himself. So it's one of 173 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 5: the times I'm like, yo, I'm banging on the door. 174 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 5: Cop comes. He's like, what you're banging on. I'm like, 175 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 5: I want my phone call. He's like phone call. I'm 176 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 5: like yeah, He's like, are you getting plenty phone calls? 177 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 5: Were aure going. I'm like, where am I going. He's like, 178 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 5: you're gonna chill? What the hell? They bring me in 179 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 5: the bus. They chanceport me there and I find out 180 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 5: Monday the raiment that I'm getting charged with murder. I 181 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 5: go up into the court room, had to split up. 182 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 5: Stephan was on the west sides on the right side. 183 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 5: So they reach Steff in his charges seventh bolroom possessing 184 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 5: a firearm and that was that and he goes with 185 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 5: Terrell Barrows first degree heard them, Paul showing everything I love. 186 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 5: I did not do it. He admitted it on the 187 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 5: scene for the p that's the power. I don't understand. 188 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: I don't understand it either, because it should have been 189 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: over right then and there, throw the phone, Okay. 190 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 4: The caller has hung up. 191 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: I have never and may never again hear of a 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: case in which the actual shooter skates on the charges 193 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: after confessing on the scene. Right, I mean, at that point, 194 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: this should be a very short podcast. That should be 195 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: the end of it. I mean, this would be funny, 196 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: except it's so freaking serious, right, And this is this 197 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: is the system that we all rely on day in 198 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: and day out. I'd like to believe that we have 199 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: people who are doing the job that they're paid to do. 200 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: But in this case, it's absolutely true. It failed society, 201 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: it failed the victim, It failed to rell, and that's 202 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: what we're here to talk about. And then it gets 203 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: weirder because then you start with the eyewitness. The only 204 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: eyewitness is a guy named Gregory's or Obedient, and he 205 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: initially claims he didn't see the shooting, and then changed 206 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: his testimony six days before the trial to say he 207 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: saw Torell do it. We have a document signed by 208 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: the assist Attorney General promising not to charge him for 209 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 1: perjury should he alter his testimony. That's maybe just a 210 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: little bit of a red flag there. Now get this, Okay, 211 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: this Gregory's or obedient guy had, well, let's just call 212 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: it an extensive criminal history. But that might not even 213 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: be doing a justice. So his rap sheet went back 214 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: thirty years. It included convictions not arrest, convictions for living 215 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: off the earnings of a prostitute, grand larson, d ui 216 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: causing death, cocaine possession, burglary, theft, escape, and that's just 217 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: the beginning. So do we think that after doing all 218 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: these other things he's done, he might be willing to 219 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: lie in exchange for a deal. I would say that's 220 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: a pretty good likelihood. And then let's get to Detective 221 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: Charles Mtrasia. Do you want to take that one, Jenna. 222 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 3: He was actually the one who claims that he saw 223 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: Jamal cruz Nod. When they brought over Terrell, I asked herra, 224 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: I said, yo, were you watching Jamal? He said yeah, 225 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 3: I was watching him. I said, did he not? He 226 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 3: said no, he didn't do anything. So whether he did 227 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 3: or did not is another story. But again, Jamal Cruz 228 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 3: was under the influence of alcohol. He had a BAC 229 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: of point one six', two which seems like a lot 230 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 3: until we look At, rokin who had to. 231 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: Actually HIRE bac as. 232 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 3: Well and then Both Stephan andterrell were wearing WHITE t 233 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 3: shirts and darker. Pants out of the group That terrell was, 234 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 3: in he was not the only one with two long black. 235 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: Braids he just. Wasn't it was a. Style if you 236 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: look at the pictures. 237 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: Of his friend, group he's not the only one with 238 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: two long black. Braids and so out of a group 239 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: of people wearing white, shirts dark, pants two long black, 240 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 3: braids you're dying on the. Floor And Detective matrasia, says, 241 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: yeah he nodded when we brought Over. TERRELL i, mean 242 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 3: how unreal could that? Be and so now we're moving 243 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 3: INTO gsr. 244 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: TESTING gsr stands for gunshot, residue. 245 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: Yep and there are three particles of gunshot residue that 246 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 3: they test for when they're looking at. Clothing so When 247 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: Stephan andterrell were initially, Arrested stefan was pulled out of 248 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: the car and he was slammed against the side of the. 249 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 3: Car When terrell was, arrested he was pulled out of 250 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 3: the car and slammed to the, ground so he actually had. 251 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: Some dirt on his white shirt in a specific. 252 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 3: Area what they initially test was the chest area of 253 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: Both terrell and Of stephan because the theory is if 254 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: someone is a shooter and they hold the gun right, 255 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: ahead that the gunshot residue will recoil and hit them 256 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: in the chest. Area so they talk about stuff and they, go, 257 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 3: well we found lead on stuffan and they, say, well 258 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 3: you also found lead On. Terrell So terrell whispers to 259 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: his attorney ask if they happened to find. 260 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: The lead where my shirt was. 261 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: Dirty they said, Yes so it makes sense that that's 262 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 3: the only place on his clothing where they found. Lead 263 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: so this is all the information they had in terms 264 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: OF gsr at, trial but there is MORE gsr evidence to, 265 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: come which is part of what we are motioning for 266 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 3: with the new hearing coming. 267 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: Up, well we're on, initials, Right we'll go FROM gsr TO, 268 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: dna and THE dna report Excluded terrell from having held the. 269 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: Gun so let's touch for a second on THE dna 270 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: expert for the, state who we know was, WELL i, 271 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: mean most, unfortunately quote unquote experts are pro. Prosecution in, 272 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: fact the whole system is pro. Prosecution over eighty percent 273 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: of judges are former. Prosecutors so throughout the process there's 274 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: a tilt towards, prosecution and the experts that you're seeing 275 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: may not be objective at. All and this is one 276 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: of those cases WHERE i think that there's a strong 277 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: argument to that. Effect, So, ujena can you talk about? 278 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: That, Yeah Kara lupino gave extremely pro prosecution. Testimony in 279 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: the way that she had presented. It the attorney would 280 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: ask a question the, prosecutor she would respond and say, 281 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: yes And torell was. Included and then you all of 282 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 3: a sudden get to the very very very end and 283 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 3: they really quickly sneak in a couple of lines Of 284 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 3: terrell was excluded And Stefan BODEN'S dna could not be. 285 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: Excluded so When i'm talking to the, juror she, GOES 286 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 3: i don't even really remember him being. Excluded it was so. 287 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: Confusing there were a lot of numbers thrown. Out terrell 288 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: seemed to be included in almost every mixture that they're talking. 289 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: About it's absolutely, insane and IF i was in the, 290 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 3: JURY i would have thought the same. 291 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: Thing the state's witness essentially muddy the waters of what 292 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: was a pretty cut and DRY dna report that Excluded 293 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: torell from having ever held the. Gun but then There's Rokeem, 294 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: henley the other guy who got shot that. Night his, 295 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: testimony along with the ballistic evidence known at the time of, 296 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: trial make it an actual impossibility That terrell could have 297 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: been the. 298 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: Shooter he does, testify and WHEN i asked him the 299 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 3: same question WHEN i met with, him he, said the 300 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 3: only person standing close To Jamal cruz Was Stefan. 301 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: Bodden SO i, said here's the. 302 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 3: Discrepancy did you see who shot? 303 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: You he said. 304 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: NO i, said, okay, well ballistic evidence proves that the 305 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 3: shot was made from near contact to eighteen inches, away 306 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: and you are telling me that the only person standing 307 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: near contact to eighteen inches away From Jamal cruz Was Stefan. 308 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: Bodden he, said, yes BUT i didn't see him shoot the. 309 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 3: Gun it's kind of a confusing. Testimony you don't see 310 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 3: stuff and do, it but you also claim you did 311 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 3: not See terrell. Outside you don't know Who terrell. Is 312 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: the only time he Saw terrell was at. Trial so 313 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 3: if rokeeem had never Seen terrell and the shot was 314 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 3: made from near contact to eighteen inches, away it is 315 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 3: impossible That terrell was the. 316 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: Shooter, nevertheless the incentivized, witness the MUDDY dna, report and 317 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: of course the testimony Of Detective matrasia with too much to, 318 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: overcome And terrell was sentenced to two life sentences plus thirty. 319 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 4: Years this is a free call from true an inmate 320 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 4: at maximum security. Facility thank you for using. Securists you 321 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: may start the conversation, Now. 322 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: Okay the investigators in your, Case, terrell it Was Detective 323 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 1: matrasha And Detective, angelo, right. 324 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, angelo though he was the leader of the, Case 325 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 5: matasha was the one that lied About, jamal saying it 326 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 5: was me at the show. Up so WHAT i was 327 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 5: told was this from a lot of, lawyers and they 328 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 5: all gave me the same. Answer you're in this. Situation 329 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 5: they tend this on. You it's because you asked for your. 330 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 5: LAWYER i asked for my. Way that's not, Right they, said, 331 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 5: yeah but you didn't tell them what they wanted to, 332 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 5: hear and they threw it on. You jamal ain't, here 333 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 5: so you could put any words in that man's mouth 334 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 5: you want because you can't put him on a stand 335 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 5: and cross examine. Him so what the cops. Do they 336 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 5: go on the stand and they, think, no they, know 337 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 5: they know that the jury look at them as. Superheroes 338 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 5: the jury don't think that the cops are going to 339 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 5: go on to stand and, lie and that's what they. 340 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 5: Did And jamal ain't. Here now this is before this 341 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 5: even going on With George. Floyd this was in like twenty, 342 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 5: twelve twenty, thirteen so around that time that climate was, 343 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 5: like oh, no the police ain't gonna lie on this, Kid. 344 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: Torell you've gone through this insane. Nightmare everything that could 345 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: go wrong has gone wrong so. Far but then comes 346 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: the moment where the jury goes out and they come back. 347 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: In did you think that they were going to find you? 348 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: Innocent tell us about that. 349 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 5: Moment they bring me down and the elevator to the court. 350 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 5: Room they can just feel like the tension in the 351 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 5: courtroom and the jury will come. In their faces are. 352 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 5: Funny they SAID i was, guilty and then, everybody just my, 353 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 5: family everybody was just, Like, noah he's. Innocent like they 354 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 5: just went. Crazy i'm just sitting there like and. Shocked 355 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 5: i'm in, shocked like everybody's standing. Up i'm the only 356 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 5: one sitting down and what got me out of the 357 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 5: chance As i've Seen Detective Angelo leva. Laughing SO i, said, 358 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 5: yo what do you think this is? Funny they just 359 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 5: looked at me AND i looked At jamaal's family AND 360 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 5: i turned around some AND i, SAID i didn't do 361 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 5: this to your. SON i promise. YOU i promise. YOU 362 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 5: i did not do this to your. SON i did 363 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 5: not do. This they didn't get justice for your. Son 364 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 5: they're lying to you and they're just looking at me 365 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 5: like in a. Shock everyone's going. Crazy so they're in that. 366 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 5: Commotion i've seen the prosecutor like hugged the brother like 367 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 5: like they want a Super, bowl smacking his back like, yeah, 368 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 5: yeah we got. Him And i'm just looking at him 369 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 5: like ye're lying into this family like this is a big, 370 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 5: lie like you just known an innocent kid guilty for 371 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 5: a time. Again do they just want a big? CONVICTION 372 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 5: i know they don't know WHY i didn't do, it 373 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 5: because the, prosecutors you, know when you see bogus, charges 374 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 5: but you still go forward with it because you want a. 375 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 5: Conviction they don't care. 376 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: Yet What i'm. Say, yeah they're thinking about their, future their, 377 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,719 Speaker 1: aspirations the way they can be, successful and they know 378 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: that's by having a good conviction rate by in. Large 379 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: but it's like it's some sort of six scoreboard and they're. 380 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: Decent oscar's out. There there are some really good ones, 381 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: Too but the ones that are willing to ignore evidence 382 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: of innocence and prosecute clearly bogus cases like yours just 383 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: to get another notch on their, belt just to move 384 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: up the, ladder Are they're a disgrace and they're actually 385 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: a menace to public. 386 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 5: Safety they used on that they went off family to 387 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 5: make this. Family, yeah. 388 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: Like and as if this case couldn't get worse or. 389 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: Weirder Stephan bowden put out a. SONG i guess he 390 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: was trying to rid himself of the guilt of skating 391 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: on the murder rap and allowing his friend to rotten. Prison. 392 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: Right he wrote this song Called letter To. 393 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 3: Terrel it's really more of a guilt, trip saying things 394 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: like we should have never went out to the club that. 395 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 3: Night it's painful that you're in that. Cell it's painful 396 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 3: on my, mother And i'm sorry that you. 397 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: Win that gym's painful on my, Mother BUT i think 398 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: about you every day IN. Nfe how is he? Out 399 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: interrell's in. 400 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 3: Prison Stefan boden is now. Dead he was shot in 401 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 3: a car shooting in twenty. 402 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: Seventeen it's too. MUCH i, mean the good news is 403 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 1: He's the only good news HERE i guess is that 404 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: he's got a fantastic. Team now we've got some. Momentum 405 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: can you talk about that new, evidence talk about his 406 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: new lawyer and what lays. 407 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 3: Ahead the original theory was if you hold a gun 408 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 3: straight out in front of, you THE gsr or gun 409 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: shot residue will fly back and hit the chest, area 410 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 3: AS i mentioned. Before, However Bob, Cando terrell's newer, attorney 411 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 3: went ahead and looked at the trajectory of the bullets 412 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 3: and he had a couple of questions about where the 413 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: shot was actually made. From how is it possible That 414 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 3: rakim didn't see the. Shooter how is it possible that 415 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 3: If jamal gave a dying, declaration then he gave it 416 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: to the wrong. Person and how is it possible that 417 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: If stefan's the real, shooter we find only lead on. 418 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: Him where are the other particles OF. 419 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 3: Gsr So Bob kando goes ahead and puts in a 420 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: request for other areas Of boden's clothing to be, analyzed 421 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 3: including his crotch and belt. Area lo and, behold they 422 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 3: come back with more particles OF, gsr which ends up 423 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: being huge. News putting together trajectory of the. Bullets putting TOGETHER, 424 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 3: Gsr Stefan boden actually took the shots. 425 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 2: From right next to his. Belt he actually did not 426 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 2: hold the gun straight. 427 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 3: Ahead so if that were to, happen someone who's extremely 428 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 3: intoxicated wouldn't be able to see the. Gun and WHEN 429 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: i actually ended up speaking To rakeem, later IF i, said, 430 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: well you, know the new evidence really says that the 431 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 3: gun was next to him was, sponsor he, goes, oh 432 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 3: that might explain. It so that might explain Why rokein 433 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 3: didn't see That stefan shot. Him so that's very. Exciting 434 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 3: and with this new, evidence with the new affidavit that 435 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 3: we have, written new eyewitnesses who are coming, forward family 436 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 3: members Of stephan Bod and who are coming forward and 437 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 3: SAYING i Know stefan did. It he told me multiple. 438 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 3: Times we are taking all of this And bob is 439 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: pushing for a hearing In september with emotion for a new, 440 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: trial and we're hoping that we can Get terrell home very. 441 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: Soon and that leads to what happens now and what 442 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: can people? 443 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 3: DO a mini documentary came out About Terrell. Barrows please 444 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 3: check it. Out the title of it is on. YouTube 445 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 3: it's Called making An exonerary twenty twenty dash The story 446 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 3: Of Terrell. Barrows and then that you'll really see everything 447 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 3: that we outlined throughout this entire, podcast as well as 448 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 3: getting to hear from people who heard From steffan himself 449 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 3: that he did. It and then there's also a change 450 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 3: dot org petition that sends a letter to the, governor 451 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 3: who has been pretty vocal about THE blm movement and 452 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 3: everything that's happening right, now so we're hoping that she'll 453 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 3: also hop onto this change dot org slash Free. Terrellbarrow 454 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: so it's change dot org Slash Free Terrell. 455 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: Barrows our wonderful producers have put the link in the 456 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: podcast description so you can just scroll down on whatever 457 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: platform you're listening. To please share it on social. Media 458 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: tell people listen to the, episode watch the video content 459 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,120 Speaker 1: that's out. There we can win. This so now this 460 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: is the part WHERE i get to thank our guests 461 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: in this, case and, There Jenna, handy thank you for being, 462 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: here and of Course Terrell, Barrows we're here for. You 463 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: i'm going to fight for, you and thank you as 464 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: well for sharing your thoughts with. Us Now i'm going 465 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: to turn off my, microphone pick back in my chair 466 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: and Let Noorgena handy share her final thoughts in the 467 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: segment we call closing. 468 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: Arguments terrelle is an amazing. 469 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 3: MAN i could go on and on about who he 470 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 3: is as a, person the character that he, has and 471 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 3: the change that he will make when he is brought. 472 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: Home and it has been such an honor to be 473 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: in his, life to be in his mother's, life to 474 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 3: be in his attorney's. Life And i'm hoping that we 475 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 3: can Prove terrell's innocence and bring him home to his, 476 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: mom to his, family and to society where he belongs 477 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 3: and WHERE i am one thousand percent sure that he 478 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 3: is going to make a. Difference this is not the, 479 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 3: end and it's definitely not the. Beginning this story With 480 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 3: terrell has happened many times in the past and unfortunately 481 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 3: will continue to happen unless people like, me like You, 482 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 3: jason come together and Bring terrell. 483 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: Home and now over to You torel, again thank you 484 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: for being here and thank you for your courage and your. 485 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: Spirit hang in. There we're all out here rooting for 486 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: you and more importantly fighting for. You so now over 487 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: to you for closing. 488 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 5: ARGUMENTS i just want to thank everybody for, listening AND 489 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 5: i want to start off while, Thinking Jason form for 490 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 5: give me this platform to explain my. Situation we need 491 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 5: people Like Jason Mock, Poward Madi, tank with The georgetown, 492 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 5: students the Genre Leo. Caroline they are fighting so hard for. 493 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 5: Me my, Attorney Robert, kando just want to thank him 494 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 5: for being there for me and really really fighting for 495 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 5: me because he Knows i'm really, innocent you. Know AND 496 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 5: i also got to thank the two main women in my, 497 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 5: wife my mother And Ann. Lisa if it wasn't For 498 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 5: An lisa reaching out to my out with, that none 499 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 5: of this right, now this, interview the, documentary the, petition 500 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 5: none of this would be going on right now because 501 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 5: it wasn't for. HER i want to thank my mother 502 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 5: for always being there for. Me her strength is WHERE 503 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 5: i get it. From, well right, Here i'm innocent and 504 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 5: she told me to, fight, fight fight UNTIL i get my. 505 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 5: Freedom but the post convincing am't coming. Up And i'm 506 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 5: fighting for a new child And i'm fighting for. FREEDOM 507 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 5: i need your. HELP i just need as much people 508 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 5: to sign this. 509 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 4: Petition you have one minute. LEFT i spread the. 510 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 5: Word we need. Allies there's a lot of us in 511 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 5: here that are, voiceless AND i am blessed to have the. 512 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 5: FAMILY i have to have this voice to speak because 513 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 5: it's given me a platform to speak for the. Voiceless 514 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 5: in this, PRESENT i feel like people are playing in 515 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 5: my life for a. REASON i know That i'm going 516 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 5: to get out of jail AND i gotta fight on 517 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 5: the front line for people get innocent in present because 518 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 5: it has to. Stop these pos needs to be held. 519 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 5: Appounable they're not just killing us in the. Streets they're 520 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 5: killing us in these courts and there's no consequences when 521 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 5: they do. It they need to be. Accomplished too many 522 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 5: people in the prisons system what their life took me, 523 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 5: fact it has to. 524 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: Stop don't forget to give us a fantastic review wherever 525 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,239 Speaker 1: you get your. Podcasts it really. Helps And i'm a 526 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: proud donor to The Innocence, project AND i really hope 527 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: you'll join me in supporting this very important cause and 528 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go To Innocence project 529 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: dot org to learn how to donate and get. Involved 530 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall And Kevin. 531 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: Wartis the music in the show is by three Time 532 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,239 Speaker 1: Oscar nominade Composed Jay. Ralph be sure to follow us 533 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: On instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook At Wrongful Conviction. 534 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flam is a production Of 535 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts and association With Signal Company number 536 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: one