1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,720
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal.

2
00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 2: Here, independent media just played a truly massive role in

3
00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 2: this election, and we are so excited about what that

4
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,720
Speaker 2: means for the future of the show.

5
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

6
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

8
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

9
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

10
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,920
Speaker 2: you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and

11
00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

12
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

13
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

14
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 3: dot com.

15
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,959
Speaker 4: All right, speaking of who's going to fill this vacuum,

16
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,480
Speaker 4: let's put this element up on the screen, the first

17
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,400
Speaker 4: of what hopefully will become many co broad lines with

18
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,200
Speaker 4: my colleague Saga and Jetty. This drop site news article

19
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,239
Speaker 4: of headline Trump's and a seed director for Israel and

20
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 4: Iran previously worked for Israeli Ministry of Defense. That headline

21
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,560
Speaker 4: is what it says it is. Well, you're like, wait

22
00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 4: a minute, you can do that. You can work for

23
00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 4: the Israeli Ministry of Defense and then you can work

24
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 4: for the night I said, well, of course you can.

25
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 5: Why did you think that you couldn't.

26
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,759
Speaker 3: Well it's very interesting, isn't it. Ryan, Yeah, let's break

27
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,520
Speaker 3: some of this down for the audience.

28
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: So this is very important.

29
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 3: So, as I explained previously about the NSC, we just

30
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,720
Speaker 3: talked about power vacuum. So not only do we have

31
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,399
Speaker 3: Mike Wallace, who we know advocated for war with Iran

32
00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 3: when the Israelis were here, we now know that he

33
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 3: put in charge of the Israel and the Iran portfolio,

34
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 3: combined that portfolio under this woman, Marav Saren, now Marev

35
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,120
Speaker 3: Saren is the director for Israel and Iran at the NSC. Now,

36
00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,200
Speaker 3: what we know from her own background publicly reported let's

37
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 3: put that up there on the screen, please shall we,

38
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 3: is that she admits quote worked at Israel's Ministry of Defense,

39
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,480
Speaker 3: where she participated in negotiations in the West Bank between

40
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 3: Israel's coordinator for government activities and the territories and palesinating

41
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 3: authority officials. So this is a person, Ryan, who literally

42
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,919
Speaker 3: worked for the Israeli Ministry of Defense.

43
00:01:58,480 --> 00:01:59,840
Speaker 1: Basically we were just talking about the Pentagon.

44
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 3: He Israeli version of the Pentagon who is not working

45
00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 3: in the United States government to develop policy visa VI

46
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 3: that person. I should also mention there that that biography

47
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,680
Speaker 3: comes from the Foundation for Defensive Democracies. What is the

48
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 3: probably single most pro war with Iran organization in the

49
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 3: United States today.

50
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so what was so that was previously known.

51
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 4: What wasn't known is that she's working at the NSC.

52
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,720
Speaker 4: There was ever a public announcement made about that, but

53
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 4: the NSC has confirmed it to us.

54
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 5: We can read this.

55
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 4: NSC spokesperson Brian Hughes says, the following. Morav is a

56
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,519
Speaker 4: patriotic American who has served in the United States government

57
00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,240
Speaker 4: for years, including for President Trump, Senator Ted Cruz, and

58
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 4: Congress and James Comer. We are thrilled to have her

59
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,200
Speaker 4: expertise in the NSC, where she carries out the President's

60
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,880
Speaker 4: agenda on a range of Middle East issues, because I

61
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,160
Speaker 4: had asked, do you have anything set up in place

62
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,080
Speaker 4: to mitigate potential conflicts of interest, because you know, she

63
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 4: is overseeing policy with a country where she previously served

64
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,119
Speaker 4: that country.

65
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 5: And this is why this matters so much.

66
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 4: That country, Israel, is currently trying to blow up our

67
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 4: negotiations with Iran and between Iran and the United States.

68
00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,079
Speaker 4: We are involved, and we're going to talk about those

69
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 4: more in a moment. We're involved in these direct talks

70
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 4: with Iran because the President of the United States has

71
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 4: repeatedly said he believes that negotiations are a better resolution

72
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,680
Speaker 4: solution to our problem with Iran than an attack. Israel

73
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 4: disagrees Israel wants us to attack. Yes, Israel has argued

74
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,200
Speaker 4: internally that it wants us to attack. So the NSC

75
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 4: director for both of those countries previously worked for Israel.

76
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 3: How do you get a security clearance if ver former

77
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:54,880
Speaker 3: employee boggles the mind and inevitably ran, what are we

78
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 3: going to be smeared as anti semi? It's calling in

79
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 3: to question somebody's loyalty. No, I would say this about anyone.

80
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 3: I'm Indian descent.

81
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 5: Religion doesn't matter, this about the country.

82
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 3: If the guy running the NSC India desk is a

83
00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 3: Indian citizen.

84
00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 5: Or who worked for the Indian worked.

85
00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: For the Indian military, I would say absolutely not.

86
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,919
Speaker 3: How can you trust this guy's judgment? And then even worse,

87
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,120
Speaker 3: if you're in charge of the Iran portfolio, that's like

88
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 3: taking a former Indian military official who appens to have

89
00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,040
Speaker 3: US citizen and put him on the Pakistan desk. What

90
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 3: saying the vice versa, you're gonna put somebody in charge

91
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,760
Speaker 3: of the mortal enemy of a government if you used

92
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 3: to work for and by the way, mortal enemy. I'm

93
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,600
Speaker 3: using their language, the Israeli languages. That's so they see them.

94
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I believe that, but that's how.

95
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 1: They view it.

96
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 4: And in fact, the general policy of the US government,

97
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,280
Speaker 4: and I've seen this with friends firsthand, is to not

98
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 4: send somebody of a particular nationality to serve in a

99
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 4: particular country. Let's say you are and I've seen this firsthand.

100
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 4: Let's say you're Iranian American and you're born here in

101
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 4: the United States. You are as American as I am.

102
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 4: They will not have you work on Iran inside the

103
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,360
Speaker 4: CIA or the State Department, even though you might speak

104
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,279
Speaker 4: Persian and know the country.

105
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 5: That it's a little too close.

106
00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 4: It's it's there's some suspicion in orderline racism. If you're

107
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,280
Speaker 4: Pakistani American, you're born here in the United States, they

108
00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,039
Speaker 4: will not have you serving Pakistan. Ecuadorian American, they won't

109
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 4: send you. I think there are exceptions.

110
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 1: I will defend that's actually a good policy.

111
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 5: I think it's fine too.

112
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 4: I get it, like I understand where it's coming from,

113
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 4: because it's like, all right, look, we're all we're all

114
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 4: Americans here, and there's a lot of places we can

115
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 4: send you. We're gonna send you know, we're gonna send

116
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,279
Speaker 4: the Iranian, the ecuador Ecuadorian into Iran. Right, But so

117
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 4: that's there, like it or not. That is the general approach.

118
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 4: You can find exceptions, but that is the general approach

119
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 4: that the American government takes to foreign countries and your

120
00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,200
Speaker 4: place of birth that those are now, those are not

121
00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 4: people who worked for the Iranian Ministry of Defense or

122
00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:02,080
Speaker 4: the Equadorians. Their parents or parents are from there. She

123
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,800
Speaker 4: personally worked for the Israeli Ministry of Defense.

124
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 3: By her own admission again and by the way, at

125
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 3: the FD the Foundation for Defensive Democracies whose chairman Mark

126
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,119
Speaker 3: Dubowitz is the chief opponent right now of any Trump

127
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 3: negotiation with Irani. So you have Trump who wants to

128
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 3: deal with Iran, and then the person running his White

129
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 3: House's Iran desk is a former employee of the organization

130
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,280
Speaker 3: who wants to kill the American organization which wants to

131
00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:29,039
Speaker 3: kill an Iran deal.

132
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: And of a government which also wants to kill that deal.

133
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 3: Truly, do not preach to me about how you can't

134
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 3: say that this is a most obvious conflict of interest,

135
00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 3: And yes, dare I say an accusation of dual loyalty

136
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 3: is in order, because you don't just go work for

137
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,840
Speaker 3: that government if you don't have at least some allegiance

138
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,599
Speaker 3: or something to it, and then to come and work

139
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 3: for our country, shall we?

140
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: You know this is one where they have would be.

141
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 4: Strange if she worked for the Ministry of Defense in

142
00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,720
Speaker 4: Israel and wasn't loyalty of course.

143
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 3: Even weirder So then what what so that the only

144
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,320
Speaker 3: alternative where this somehow works is that she's a US

145
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 3: double agent who was working for secret about that and

146
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 3: then going out in the Yeah, something tells me doesn't

147
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 3: seem to be true, and that, by the way, inevitably

148
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 3: this is going to cause a massive freak out, even

149
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 3: just you and I reporting on this.

150
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 4: For our Washington audience that's watching this and wondering, Uh,

151
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 4: the answer to your question is she related to Omri Sarah? Yes,

152
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 4: that's right, that's her brother.

153
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, omriy is a long time, no long known person

154
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:32,920
Speaker 3: here in Washington works for Senator Ted Cruz, one of

155
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,200
Speaker 3: the most vociferous pro Israel voices probably in the United

156
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 3: States opponent of the around you. That's fine, listen, you know,

157
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,840
Speaker 3: yeah he works her Ted Cruise. That those are tech

158
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 3: Cruises views.

159
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 1: I don't have any problem. I don't know problem.

160
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I have no problem with that. Absolutely, even her

161
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 3: working for Ted Cruise. Yeah, a little weird, you know

162
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 3: previously in my opinion, but you're not running the countries,

163
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 3: you know, foreign policy, and uh, you know, to step

164
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 3: back a little bit again and just for to explain

165
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,440
Speaker 3: some Washington terms. So we're in the middle of this

166
00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 3: Pentagon power vacuum.

167
00:07:59,680 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: Okay.

168
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 3: But the thing is is that the NSC's job is

169
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 3: to develop options.

170
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 1: It's genuinely a staff agency.

171
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 3: So when Donald Trump tells his National security advisor in

172
00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,239
Speaker 3: Mike Waltson says I need options on Israel and run,

173
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,560
Speaker 3: the person Mike Waltz turns to is her. So her

174
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 3: job is to coordinate from all of the different agencies CIA, Pentagon, DIA,

175
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,880
Speaker 3: you know, GEO and Spatial Intelligence Agency whatever, bring them

176
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 3: all together and say we need to prepare strike packages

177
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 3: or whatever. The person who's in charge of that has

178
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 3: an immense amount of power because they're controlling the actual

179
00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 3: stuff that goes to the President's desk. Let's say here

180
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,720
Speaker 3: on the Hooty strikes, things like that, Well, if you

181
00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 3: have this type of ideology and you previously worked for

182
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,559
Speaker 3: this government, what do you think the mindset that you're

183
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,679
Speaker 3: going to bring? And that doesn't even bring into question.

184
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 3: Remember there was this huge story. Do we have that

185
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 3: New York Times story? I have no inside information around this,

186
00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 3: but this says Trump waived off this really strike after

187
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:53,160
Speaker 3: Division's emergency administration. The pro Israel side was adamantly convinced

188
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,959
Speaker 3: right that the America firsters on the NSC are the

189
00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,839
Speaker 3: people who leaked this. I no longer am so sure.

190
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 3: Let's say you're a former employee of the Israeli Mystery

191
00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 3: of Defense, and your former employer didn't get what it wanted,

192
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,560
Speaker 3: and you wanted to make it clear to many people

193
00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,520
Speaker 3: on the outside about what your employer, Donald Trump is

194
00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 3: now currently doing and is stifling some of the ideology

195
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,920
Speaker 3: that you have now pushed for and believed in for

196
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 3: the better part of a decade. Well, I don't know, Ryan,

197
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 3: maybe I would leak it to the New York Times, Yeah,

198
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:24,840
Speaker 3: and wouldn't I.

199
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,200
Speaker 4: And this Times article is fascinating because it includes Tulca Gabbard,

200
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 4: Director of National Intelligence, saying that she is against the

201
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 4: US striking Iran. It includes Jade Vance, the Vice President,

202
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 4: saying that he is against striking Iran. It includes Pete Hegseith,

203
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 4: Secretary of Defense, saying he is against striking Iran.

204
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 5: And in it even Michael Waltz.

205
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 4: Acknowledges in the meeting that the Israeli plans won't work

206
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 4: without US support, and he offers little skepticism. Now, he

207
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 4: and Carrillo, the Stentcom commander, had previously engaged with Israel

208
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,240
Speaker 4: on these war plans, and and they're they're clearly the

209
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 4: most open to it of any of the top administration officials.

210
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:05,839
Speaker 4: And while Sager and I were writing the story, the

211
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 4: editor was like, Okay, in this meeting, like who is

212
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 4: Who's who's taking this support for Israel side and saying

213
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 4: that we should bomb around Because clearly you've got everybody,

214
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 4: the head of the Intelligence Community, head of the Pentagon,

215
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,839
Speaker 4: John Ratcliffe, everybody is saying don't do this. So it's

216
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,839
Speaker 4: a meeting, there's it's a debate. Tell us, who is

217
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,600
Speaker 4: on the yes side, And the ironic answer is Israel,

218
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 4: Like there actually weren't American officials in the meeting. Who

219
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,760
Speaker 4: are as who think that it is in America's interests

220
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 4: to launch this strike? Yet the entire echelon from the

221
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,000
Speaker 4: President across all of his leadership is debating this issue.

222
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:50,960
Speaker 5: Look, who are you debating? Why are you debating?

223
00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,560
Speaker 4: Like, if nobody inside the United States thinks that this

224
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 4: is in the interest of the United States, why.

225
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,680
Speaker 5: Are we even having a meeting about it?

226
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 1: Which is Wow, it's completely nuts.

227
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,800
Speaker 5: And they might get their way, and yet.

228
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 3: I want to be very clear here, they may win.

229
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,199
Speaker 3: In fact, I would not bet against these people.

230
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 5: I wouldn't want to be a run.

231
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're living here and working on this stuff.

232
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,800
Speaker 4: Imagine you're a run in these negotiations and they're like,

233
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,160
Speaker 4: you know, you just met with witcough and now you're

234
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,439
Speaker 4: moving on to the technical side. And you sit down

235
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 4: across the table in your trading paper and you look

236
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 4: up and it's somebody from the Israeli ministries.

237
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,719
Speaker 1: You're like, wait what You're like, you're supposed to be

238
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 1: working for them? How does that work? Yeah? I mean,

239
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,160
Speaker 1: would you be serious?

240
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 3: Would you trust that person to negotiate or develop policy

241
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 3: and good faith, absolutely, especially.

242
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,520
Speaker 5: After we don't have a great track record of sticking

243
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 5: to our deals.

244
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a different things.

245
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 5: It deals with China, deals with Mexico, deals with the run,

246
00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 5: you name it.

247
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 1: And look, that's why Ryan and I wrote the story.

248
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 3: It's important the public needs to know about the people

249
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,640
Speaker 3: who are actually working on this stuff. And there are

250
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 3: a lot of patriots who still work in the United

251
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,439
Speaker 3: States government. There are a lot of patriots who look

252
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,040
Speaker 3: at this and say, I have no idea how you

253
00:11:58,080 --> 00:11:59,760
Speaker 3: can get a security clearance. I can't believe that you

254
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 3: can to work here. That you and your boss, Mike Wallas,

255
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,640
Speaker 3: your boss literally caught including Jeffrey Goldberg, and you get

256
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,440
Speaker 3: to stay right and he gets to continue to be

257
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 3: in the Oval, and you know, push for war with Iran,

258
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 3: and just to show everyone that's the edifice that is

259
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 3: being protected here behind the scenes. America deserves to know.

260
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,559
Speaker 3: I don't want to war. I don't think most people

261
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 3: do either. But people who do, they're in power right

262
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,040
Speaker 3: now and they could win. They could very easily win.

263
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 5: They could absolutely all right.

264
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 1: So with that, let's get over to the Israel section.

265
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 4: The Israeli military is out with its own report on

266
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 4: the massacre of fifteen paramedics in Gaza, which happened on

267
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,439
Speaker 4: March twenty third, shortly after the Israel broke it cease

268
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,839
Speaker 4: fire with Hamas and Gaza. You can put this element

269
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,760
Speaker 4: up on the screen. This is from our drop side

270
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,040
Speaker 4: of news Twitter account which go through goes through kind

271
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,400
Speaker 4: of the full report. I put up E three while

272
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,800
Speaker 4: we're at it. This is the video footage that later

273
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,640
Speaker 4: emerged that kind of forced this report out. So what

274
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 4: we have from the Israeli military report is effectively a

275
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 4: complete whitewashing of the incident. They they they say that

276
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 4: it adds up to accountability because one deputy commander was

277
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 4: removed from his post as a result of the findings

278
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 4: of this. But for those who didn't follow a Hamas,

279
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 4: I'm not sorry, not not Hamas. They claimed it was Hamas. Later,

280
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 4: a Red Crescent medical vehicle was was fired on by

281
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,480
Speaker 4: Israeli forces. We interviewed one of the only the only

282
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,960
Speaker 4: known survivor of that. He said he said that they're

283
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 4: just driving along the road and all of a sudden,

284
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 4: gunshots ring out, and the two people in the front

285
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,080
Speaker 4: of the vehicle killed. He was then he was then grabbed,

286
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 4: dragged out, beaten ruth sleeve for many hours, and then

287
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,560
Speaker 4: he witnessed what happened next which you just saw on

288
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:09,040
Speaker 4: that video, which is the other vehicles coming, medical vehicles

289
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 4: coming to try to figure out what happened to the

290
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 4: ones that they had lost contact with. The Israelis then

291
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,599
Speaker 4: opened fire on all of them, and according to the

292
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 4: Red Crescent, based on autopsies of them, there are a

293
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 4: lot of headshot wounds and wounds to the torso that

294
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 4: indicate that.

295
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,080
Speaker 5: They were executed.

296
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 4: We know then they were buried in a mass grave

297
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 4: and tried to bury the even even the vehicles with them.

298
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 4: So the Israeli report says that they don't have any

299
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 4: evidence that they were shot point blank range, that's one thing,

300
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,480
Speaker 4: but they make that claim without evidence. They criticize the

301
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 4: commanders for burying the ambulance with bulldozers under the sand.

302
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,240
Speaker 4: They say that they said there was no reason to

303
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,560
Speaker 4: do that. They say burying the bodies in a mass

304
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,400
Speaker 4: grave was acceptable.

305
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 5: Now finally at the end, then a UN.

306
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,560
Speaker 4: Vehicle approaches the situation and the Israelis fire on the

307
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 4: UN vehicle as well. That they say was a breach

308
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 4: of protocol. So that is the only thing and everything

309
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,800
Speaker 4: that I've just laid out, other than the burring of

310
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 4: the ambulance by a bulldozer, that the Israelis hear say,

311
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,000
Speaker 4: constituted something that they were at fault for and as

312
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,840
Speaker 4: a result, deputy commander relieved from his responsibilities.

313
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,400
Speaker 5: One thing that hasn't gotten anywhere.

314
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,800
Speaker 4: Near enough attention in the western press coverage of this

315
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 4: is a startling video that Israel's Channel fourteen obtained, and

316
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 4: we can roll some of this here. So the Golani Brigade,

317
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 4: which is known as a fairly reckless brigade in Israel

318
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,880
Speaker 4: even among other Israeli forces, is the one that carried

319
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 4: out this masacre. This is a deputy command. This is

320
00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 4: a commander speaking to the Golani Brigade. He says, go out,

321
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 4: kill a lot of enemy, take a lot of territory.

322
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 4: And that's how up until now we have returned hostages.

323
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,120
Speaker 4: Everyone we meet is an enemy. We identify a figure,

324
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 4: we open fire, eliminate it, we move on. So that

325
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:20,000
Speaker 4: is a commander of the Golani Brigade speaking to Golani

326
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 4: Brigade forces. This is before this incident with the paramedics.

327
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 4: He says to them, everyone we meet is an enemy,

328
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:35,240
Speaker 4: kill them and move on. They then encounter these fifteen paramedics,

329
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 4: they kill them and they move on. Israel's response is

330
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 4: that they are going to remove just one figure.

331
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 5: From this Sagar. This was.

332
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 4: To a global community that is pretty inured to the

333
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 4: violence and the carnage going on. This one broke through

334
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 4: because of its kind of horror film esque nature of

335
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 4: it and because they are targeting people who are just

336
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,840
Speaker 4: out trying to do trying to save people's lives. Israel

337
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 4: immediately came out and claimed that they had killed some

338
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,159
Speaker 4: Hamas fighter.

339
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 5: His body was not found.

340
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 4: They named the Hamas fighter they said was with them,

341
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 4: body was not there.

342
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,560
Speaker 5: That was a lie. Then they said that were well six.

343
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,439
Speaker 4: Of them were Hamas, Like you couldn't tell these were ambulances,

344
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,399
Speaker 4: but you could somehow tell it.

345
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 5: These dead people, well, I think it's were Moss members.

346
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,920
Speaker 3: Ryan for you to break down the chain of how

347
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 3: this all happened. So, if it was not for outlets

348
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 3: like drop Site and independent journalists, I do not believe

349
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 3: that this would have come to life.

350
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 1: Because the legacy press covered it as is.

351
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,680
Speaker 3: They were like Israel says they killed so and so

352
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 3: they didn't even remember you flag this. The New York

353
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 3: Times did not even call up the Red Crest asked

354
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,399
Speaker 3: what actually happened with all this and the fact that

355
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 3: it was on video and you know, literally there's a

356
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,720
Speaker 3: horrible video of the guy who died recording his last

357
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: words to his mother. If it wasn't for that, I

358
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,239
Speaker 3: don't think any of this gets picked up, if no

359
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 3: investigation even happened.

360
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 4: The first Palestine reporter I saw break this was Hin Kaudrey,

361
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,120
Speaker 4: who I don't think we've had her on the program,

362
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 4: but she's a terrific journalist in Gaza who she was

363
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 4: one of those those who kind of blew up on

364
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,239
Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok very very early on, and she has

365
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,880
Speaker 4: a huge kind of global following. And immediately on March

366
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 4: twenty third, she started hearing what had happened, and because

367
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 4: of her, another Palestinian reporter, some of which went on

368
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 4: to report for drops the news about this that version

369
00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 4: was out there. Then the New York Times comes out finally,

370
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 4: like two Times didn't even want to cover it, and

371
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 4: there was an internal fight within the Times about whether

372
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,479
Speaker 4: they should even do an article on it, and they

373
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 4: buried it in one unrelated article, and then when they

374
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 4: finally did cover it, they said, you know, who's to

375
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,200
Speaker 4: say what happened? Because the Israelis said that the ambulances

376
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 4: were quote advancing suspiciously, which is just an absolutely comical

377
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 4: addition to our new lexicon. How does an ambulance advance suspiciously?

378
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 4: The Israelis claimed that there were the sirens and the

379
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 4: lights of the ambulances were not on, and that might

380
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 4: have been the end of the story if one of

381
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 4: the assassinated medics had not filmed his own death. So

382
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 4: he had his phone going as he's as he's going

383
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 4: through this rafa area, and you all of a sudden

384
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 4: and you see, so he's filming the entire thing. You

385
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 4: saw his that was his view, that was his video

386
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 4: that you saw at the top of this segment. You

387
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 4: see that the lights are on, lights are obviously on,

388
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, you hear the gunfire erupt

389
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 4: and you hear him say before he is killed, forgive me, mother,

390
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 4: forgive me. All I wanted to do was help people.

391
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 4: And you can just sense that guilt, the guilt of

392
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 4: a son that is not rational because nobody should feel

393
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 4: guilty for being murdered because you're trying to help people.

394
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 4: But you know that his mother said to him so

395
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,239
Speaker 4: many times, be careful, be careful, and he told her,

396
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 4: don't worry, Mom, I'm gonna be careful.

397
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,879
Speaker 5: I'll be fine. I need to help other people.

398
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 4: And now in his last moments, he's realizing that these

399
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 4: just promised that he made to his mother that he

400
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 4: would be fine and that he would come home. Uh,

401
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 4: he's going to break that promise by being executed at

402
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 4: the hands of these Israeli forces that he hears getting

403
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 4: closer and closer and then finally killing him buried by him,

404
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,679
Speaker 4: burying him in a mass grave, right and if And

405
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 4: then they forgot to steal his phone and destroy it.

406
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 4: And so when he was unearthed a week later, because

407
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 4: the Israelis were blocking the un from going and get

408
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 4: and clearing the scene, uh, they discovered his phone and

409
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 4: fortunately they were able to, I guess get through his

410
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,359
Speaker 4: pass code. And then and they found this video and

411
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, everything Israel said about this was a lie.

412
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 4: The sirens were on, there was no Hamas fighter, nobody's

413
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 4: shooting back.

414
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 5: You killed these people in cold in cold blood.

415
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,640
Speaker 4: And you go back and read the drop site interview

416
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 4: with the only survivor. He watched them bury these people.

417
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 4: He watched them bury the vehicles, which is like what

418
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 4: compels you to take a bulldozer to an ambulance and

419
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 4: try to bury it under sand other than.

420
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 5: Trying to like completely cover up this scene.

421
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 4: And it also shows the scale of the sense of

422
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 4: impunity that is felt by some Israeli forces any other

423
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 4: force on this planet. At this point, if you kill

424
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 4: fifteen paramedics, you know the world is going to know

425
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 4: about this. You're not even like you're cancox some story

426
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 4: about what happened, but you're not going to try to

427
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: cover it up like that, like bur by.

428
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 5: Burying the ambulances.

429
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 4: But there's so much impunity that they have gotten away

430
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 4: with so many things that they thought it was in

431
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 4: the within the realm of possibility that they could get

432
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 4: some bulldozers out there and bury these ambulances under the

433
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 4: sand with the bodies and move on.

434
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 5: At the end, they're correct.

435
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 4: One guy is getting removed from his job and celebrated

436
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 4: in the in their report, and there's really report.

437
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,879
Speaker 5: They celebrate the guy. He had an amazing career, he

438
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 5: was wounded.

439
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 4: But you know, he shouldn't have fired on the They

440
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: shouldn't have allowed them to fire on this one vehicle.

441
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: At the same time, Ryan, we have this story. Let's

442
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,399
Speaker 3: put it up there on the screen. Can you describe

443
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: for us what happened here?

444
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

445
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 4: So Fatma Hosana was who is a photo twenty five

446
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 4: year old photojournalist in Gaza who had also picked up

447
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 4: a lot of international attention for her for her own

448
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 4: kind of charisma and confidence and courage and all also

449
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 4: for her photographs, just absolutely compelling work. She is the

450
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: focal point of a documentary that was just accepted into

451
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 4: Khan So, how you said, a huge achievement in the

452
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 4: world of documentary filmmaking. The day after her film was

453
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 4: accepted into Khan the Film Festival, her homes is hit

454
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 4: with a targeted strike, which kills I believe at this

455
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 4: count ten members of her family.

456
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 5: Of course, they're.

457
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 4: Saying which so they're saying that they were aiming for

458
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 4: some Hamas fighter or something.

459
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 5: Let's say that that's true just for a second.

460
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 4: It means that they're willing to kill ten innocent people

461
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 4: for one Hamas fighter in his home, which is a

462
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: violation of the laws of war, like even if a

463
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 4: person and was previously a combatant, when they go back

464
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 4: to their home, laws of war say you don't attack

465
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 4: somebody in their homes, particularly you don't do it with

466
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: nine of their family members surrounding them. The coincidence to

467
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 4: me is too stark. They have targeted so many people

468
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 4: have who have risen to global celebrity.

469
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 5: That and target we're not talking about.

470
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 4: They hit a huge apartment building and they happen to

471
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 4: be inside the apartment building. Hit her home like a

472
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 4: direct hit on their home, just like they hit when

473
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: they killed the poet ray fat Alarier.

474
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 5: He was in a second floor apartment they hit.

475
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 4: They hit the second floor apartment only with a direct hit,

476
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 4: killed him, a bunch of his family, family members, the

477
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 4: I forget, I forget his name of the Instagram and

478
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 4: TikTok star in the Northern Gaza, who was famous for

479
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 4: as a chef cook just cooking for people and because

480
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 4: of what he was able to do, he developed his

481
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 4: global audience, killed him direct post on Shabot our reporter

482
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 4: killed directly. There's not accidental killings. These are people who

483
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 4: sit around make a decision to target somebody. Send that

484
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 4: up the chain and it is signed off on and

485
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 4: then it is executed yep.

486
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 3: And you know, every once in a while somebody like you,

487
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: somebody like Trey Yanks at Fox News will try and

488
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 3: bring attention to this, but by and large completely ignored.

489
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 4: And they have to now that the director said, they

490
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 4: they're changing the ending now, like not the ending, but

491
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: the end card. The end card said, uh, you know,

492
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 4: Fatma is alive in Gaza and continuing her pursuit of photojournalism.

493
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 4: They now have had to add a new card to

494
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 4: the end of that documentary and there won't be a

495
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 4: dry eye in the house. And when the movie comes out,

496
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 4: you'll have pro Israel forces complaining about it, trying to

497
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 4: shut down theaters that will play it, and then asking

498
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 4: why the world hates them?

499
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, why is the world so against us?

500
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 6: Right?

501
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: No clue, Let's break the Iron deal down? What do

502
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: you got for us on.

503
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 4: That despite all of the obstacles thrown up in their

504
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 4: way direct us around, talks are preceding with some significant momentum.

505
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 4: Let's put this treat of Parsi post on the screen says,

506
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 4: So the teams met in Rome on Saturday, and what

507
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 4: is surprising coming out of this is that they said,

508
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 4: all right, the technical meeting coming out of this will

509
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 4: be in four days, and we're going to meet just

510
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 4: a couple of days after that for political meetings again

511
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 4: and to give people a sense of how these go.

512
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 4: So you get the political people in a room and

513
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 4: they kind of draw the political outline of what the

514
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 4: deal is going to look like, and you don't need

515
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 4: the necessarily the technical experts in there. So in this case,

516
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 4: the big fight between and Israel, as continues to insert

517
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 4: itself into this into these negotiations, they want there to

518
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 4: be zero nuclear program in Iran, no civilian nuclear program

519
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 4: at all, Whereas the US and Iran have said at

520
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 4: this point we're okay with a civilian nuclear program with

521
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: the Atomic Energy Agency monitoring it and you know, verifying

522
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 4: that there is no capacity for a breakout. Israel says,

523
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 4: if you allow them to have that, that gets them

524
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 4: too close to being able to break out to a

525
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 4: bomb if the deal collapses. So that's the political argument.

526
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 4: So by setting up the technical meeting just a few

527
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: days after the political one, suggests that the political meeting

528
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 4: went well, because now you need the technical folks to

529
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 4: come in and say, okay, what does it mean to

530
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 4: have a civilian program that is under this level of

531
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 4: you know, enrichment threshold. And it also means that the

532
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 4: technical details. The fact that they schedule the next political

533
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: meeting soon after the textical one suggests that they think

534
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 4: the technical dealers aren't that complicated. They should be able

535
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 4: to sit down, hash this out and get on with it.

536
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 4: Nikki Haley put up He's six here sees this happening

537
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 4: as well good sign that things are moving apace that

538
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: Nicki Haley is freaked out. She says Obama two point

539
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: zero because she thinks, I think rightly that the only

540
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: reason Trump well, Trump ripped up the Iran deal for

541
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: two reasons. First it was called the Obama Nuclear Deal,

542
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 4: and second, his pro Israel hawks insisted that he ripped

543
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 4: it up. So Sel Madilson didn't like it. And it's

544
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 4: called the Obama Nuclear Deal.

545
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: Day one.

546
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 5: Get it out.

547
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 3: And what we just discussed about this former ID, you know,

548
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: Israeli Ministry of Defense employee, her old boss, Mark Tubowitz.

549
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: Here's I want to be clear about what these people want.

550
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 3: It's not that they object to a deal. Here's what

551
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 3: he had to say, just yesterday. The Islamic Republic is

552
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 3: weaker than ever, hated by most Iranians, hammered by.

553
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: The IDF and mosade that part's true is terror. It's terror.

554
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: Army's air defense's missile production capability are in ruins. Never

555
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: a better time to dismantle its nuke program and finish

556
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: off the regime.

557
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: Will whoa whoa? Hold on a second, So we're not

558
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: talking about the deal.

559
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 5: Do we have the retchers?

560
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

561
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, yeah.

562
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: It's like you're like, oh, so this isn't about the

563
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 3: nuclear program at all. This is about finishing off the regime.

564
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: This is not about Obama. This is about regime change.

565
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: And they finally are being forced to say the quiet

566
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 3: part out loud because they can't even rely on getting

567
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: the whole right wing ecosystem jammed up around Obama. They

568
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 3: have to now counter signal Trump. The way they're doing

569
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 3: it is how Nikki Haley is on, Oh, this is

570
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: all about Obama and all this, but let's not, like,

571
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 3: let's be honest about their goal. They want a straight

572
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: up regime change war. That strike by Israel was not

573
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: about the Iranian nuclear program. That was a pretext to

574
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: suck the United States and into a war of total

575
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: annihilation and regime change in Iran?

576
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: Period? Now, did you sign up for that? Do most

577
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: people want that?

578
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think it would be a

579
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 3: complete disaster. And it's pretty clear the agenda that's happening inside.

580
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: And while I want to hold these up, I just

581
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: don't think you can or you can understate how colossal

582
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: the campaign against this is.

583
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: So for example, let's put this up there on the screen. Please.

584
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: Trump has now appointed Mark Levin from Fox News to

585
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: quote lead the Homeland Security Advisory Council. Now, Mark Levin

586
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: is one of the most anti Iran deal forces in

587
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: the American conservative commentariat. This guy is straight out of

588
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: the FDD playbook. He's somebody wants regime change. He attacks

589
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: anybody who previously is not like Holy subservient to the

590
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: State of Israel, who's been appointed previously to the Pentagon.

591
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: He's actively led that against him. Trump of course respects him.

592
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: Why because he's on television and now he's putting him

593
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: on this advisory council with more access to Trump. Well,

594
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 3: this individual that's a very strong voice. Mark Levin has

595
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: also targeted Tulsi Gabbard. Why because Tulsi Gabbard had the

596
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 3: audacity Ryan to present US intelligence saying if we bomb Iran,

597
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 3: if Israel bombs aren, we're going to be drawn into

598
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: a war. And he said she needs to be fired

599
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: and retract that evidence. This is the Iraq war level shit.

600
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: You know, this is Dick Cheney going to the CIA

601
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: to meddle with the national intelligence estimate about Iraq's nuclear

602
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 3: weapons program. That's what we're dealing with here. And again

603
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm not betting against them.

604
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: I think they're going to win. That's the terrifyable.

605
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: And there was just an intelligence assessment that came out.

606
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 4: And remember when Tulsi and Ratcliffe were testifying before Congress

607
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: recently and the whole hearing devolved into fighting over the

608
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Goldberg signal chat. So the reason that those were

609
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 4: scheduled were actually to talk about the new intelligence assessment

610
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 4: for the annual Intelligence Assessment. The assessment that they presented

611
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 4: to Congress was that Iran has made zero move toward

612
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 4: a militarized nuclear program, and that their intelligence assessment is

613
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 4: that they have zero interest in moving to a military

614
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 4: nuclear program, a weaponized nuclear program, none whatsoever. They did

615
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 4: say that because of all of the bellicost rhetoric from

616
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 4: Israel and from the United States that there were some

617
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: hardline figures in Iran who advocated for a military nuclear

618
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: program in ways that they had not done so before,

619
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 4: so that the politics were changing a tiny bit as

620
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 4: a result of all of the pressure. They said from

621
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: the Ietola and elsewhere, there were no interest at all.

622
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 4: That's that's the American intelligence assessment. And what Dubs is

623
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: saying is, how dare you? I want different facts again?

624
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: This is this literally is out of the Iraq War like.

625
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: It's not a joke, it's it's reality. This is exactly

626
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 3: how it all went down, with the politicization of the

627
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: intelligence and the meddling and making sure that it said

628
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: exactly what they wanted so they could present all this

629
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: bullshit the Congress and the Secretary of State. This is

630
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: the same playbook that's happening right now. I would be

631
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: remiss if I didn't at least give like some good news.

632
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there please on the screen.

633
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: At e eight.

634
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: Adam Boehler, who will all recall, was sidelined for several

635
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: months for having the audacity to what was it again.

636
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: Talk with oh right, that's to say that we're not

637
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: a audacity when.

638
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 3: On television and said we are not a client state

639
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: of Israel, and for that was benched for several months.

640
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: Has now been appointed to an expanded hostage on V

641
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 3: royal role after the Hamas tawks uproar. Allegedly he has

642
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: put in for you know, an application or whatever to

643
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: try and restart some negotiation with Hamas or or continued

644
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: cease fire and you know, hostage release. We wish him

645
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 3: the best of luck, but also if that happened to you, Ryan,

646
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: are you ever going to open your mouth again about

647
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 3: the usum band fines that it is?

648
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: No? Yeah, okay, sorry, so correction right, they are, we

649
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 4: are clients my fault.

650
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, oops, yeah, so you know that.

651
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 3: Look, Steve Wikoff lives, He lives to fight another day,

652
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: Bowler survives. These are all good things, but there's a

653
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: lot of other.

654
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: Bad stuff that's happening.

655
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 5: They have everything.

656
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 3: I think the danger is what they want to do

657
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: is because Trump wants to get this done quickly, and

658
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: Trump also is not paying that much attention. So for example,

659
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: on the Ukraine thing, well he told us to be

660
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: wrapp by day one.

661
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: Okay, well's day ninety whatever.

662
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: Marco Rubio just the other day goes, hey, if Russia

663
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 3: and Ukraine don't sign a deal soon, America will lose interest.

664
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,720
Speaker 3: So they're trying to do bilateral trade negotians with seventy

665
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 3: five countries, wrap up the largest land war in Europe,

666
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 3: and wrap on Irani nuclear all in a three month period.

667
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: Well, if all.

668
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: That happens is it just drags on, right, then the

669
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: more political capital that the pro Iran war caucus has

670
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: to say to them, Hey, we tried negotiations, they're not

671
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 3: coming to the table.

672
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and bomb them. That is the real

673
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: danger here.

674
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, Trump wants an accelerated timeline. Maybe Iran will give

675
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: it to him. I'm not so sure I would. If

676
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: I were there, right, I would. I would have wanted

677
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: a lot of trust and a lot of verification before

678
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 3: hour ever in or something.

679
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 4: The number one thing that iron is asking for is

680
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 4: an ironclad guarantee that they will not rip up this deal. Yes,

681
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 4: and are you gonna You can't really blame them for

682
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 4: doing that, like they they interestingly abided by the terms

683
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 4: of the Iran deal for a significant amount of time

684
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 4: after Trump walked away from it. And remain in the

685
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 4: deal with the Europeans and the Russians because it was this,

686
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 4: you know, there was a large global deal that with

687
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 4: the on. So they're like, just promise us you're not

688
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 4: going to break it this time, and we're like.

689
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 5: I'm not so sure about that, right, that's right?

690
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: Have a hard bard, guys. Yes, you know, not not

691
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: an ideal situation. I'll just put it that way.

692
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 3: But listen, we remain relatively optimistic here, and we'll continue

693
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 3: to track it. Finally, final segment or actually, no, we

694
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: still have to cover the pope too, we'll get that later.

695
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: Let's start with Douglas Murray catches some straits in the

696
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 3: latest Joe Rogan podcast episode.

697
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

698
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 7: Have you been there? Right?

699
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 5: That's a good point.

700
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: Have you even you haven't been?

701
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 7: By the way, how is he and all these wars?

702
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 5: Can I just go to wars?

703
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 7: By the way, how are you let Are you allowed

704
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 7: to just go to wars?

705
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: Can you just go to what to see of going?

706
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 7: Can I just go to wars? Or do I have

707
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 7: to come back and say what people want me to

708
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 7: say about the wars? Can I go to the wars

709
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 7: and have my own opinions or do I have to

710
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 7: have the opinions?

711
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 5: Not if you want to go back.

712
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 7: That's right that it's very interesting this war tourism. How

713
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 7: do I get all this war tourism. I'd like to

714
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 7: go to the Ukraine.

715
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 5: I want to go. I want to go.

716
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 7: I want to go to all this war tourists.

717
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: Do you have any awards that they can melt down

718
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: and make bullets out of?

719
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 7: Joe, think about this. Do I seem like a guy

720
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 7: that has a lot of awards.

721
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 5: Didn't you get one of those.

722
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: YouTube plaques when you hit a hundred thousand?

723
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 5: I don't even know where they send it. I don't

724
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 5: know where.

725
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 7: I don't know where they're sending those YouTube plaques those.

726
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 7: But I like this idea give your tourism. I like

727
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 7: the idea of going to a war and then coming

728
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 7: back having having a very black and white views. I

729
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 7: been there, I get it, and I know and and interesting.

730
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I like that. I like that.

731
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,720
Speaker 5: I love that you feel better than the other people.

732
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,879
Speaker 7: Well, of course there's a lot of people. It gets

733
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 7: very murky. Most people I know that have been to

734
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 7: war have a very murky.

735
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 5: Complex view of things.

736
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 7: But it is good to go to a war and

737
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 7: then come back and be as sure as you were

738
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 7: before you came. You don't have to go for very long.

739
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 5: No, you go for an hour, a couple hours.

740
00:37:58,239 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 7: It's a lunch.

741
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's lunch.

742
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: On flack jacket that says press. That's rough there, Ryan

743
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: for Douglas.

744
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 3: If for anybody who doesn't get the photo reference, let's

745
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: put that one on the screen. Our producer Griffin's been

746
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: dying to show everybody this photo for quite some time now.

747
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: This is the chair where sinwar what was killed by

748
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 3: and Israeli drone And as you could see, Douglas there

749
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: on an IDF sponsored tour with his big press flack jacket,

750
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 3: not really in danger because again he's on a you

751
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 3: know you IDF military sponsored thing. TI Tim actually made

752
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: the best point, and that's something that I immediately texted

753
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 3: Dave about is I was like, dude, he keeps saying,

754
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: you've never been there. The only reason he gets to

755
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: go is because he's a pro war propagandist, and so

756
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 3: the government is allowing him to go. If you or

757
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: I tried to set foot in the crossings, we're done,

758
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 3: all right, We're done. I don't even know if they'll

759
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: let us in the country, all right, And having been

760
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 3: to Israel before before I was ever made any public statement,

761
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: Holy shit, I have never been put through the ringer

762
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 3: any other country in the world.

763
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: Why are you here? What are you doing?

764
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: What is your dad in Muslim? You know it's wild

765
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 3: and that's just a normal visitor to the country that's

766
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 3: not made up those actual questions.

767
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: So nowadays, oh.

768
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: Man, Yeah, if you and I try to set even

769
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 3: one hundred miles foot in Gaza, not gonna happen.

770
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 4: A lot of people who've been come back with a

771
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 4: far worse impression of the situation on the ground than

772
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 4: they have been than they had before.

773
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was.

774
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 4: It was quite strange to hear Murray say it, because

775
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 4: anybody who's casually followed the conflict knows that Israel has

776
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 4: banned Western journalists from getting into Gaza.

777
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 5: So then how on earth did he sneak in?

778
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 6: Oh?

779
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 4: It turns out the IDF, you know, put him in

780
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 4: their own little flat jacket and drove him to this

781
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: scene for this this photo.

782
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: Op.

783
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 4: I don't think you should be able to wear a

784
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 4: press vest in that circumstance. In what way are you

785
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 4: press you're not You're not You're just completely.

786
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: You're just play acting. It's you know, Tim made a

787
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: funny joke about Ukraine.

788
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's the same thing, like what you think

789
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: you are getting anywhere close to these really to the

790
00:39:58,800 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: Ukrainian front line.

791
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: And obviously the same thing about Russia.

792
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: You know, if Russia was like, hey, you want to

793
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 3: come in to it, it's like, no, I'm not being

794
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 3: used by you, you know, to show me what you

795
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: want in your little dog and pony show. And this

796
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 3: is the same for anybody. You know, as you and

797
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: I know covering the Pentagon beat, you only get to

798
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,479
Speaker 3: see what you want, what they want you to see.

799
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 3: You get to ride around with the secretary. Yeah, that

800
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: make you feel important in a humvy or whatever, but

801
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: you're never going off the base. You don't get to

802
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 3: go in bed with troops. Actually, one of the interesting

803
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 3: things is that in the early days of the war,

804
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: during I Rock in Afghanistan, they actually did let journalists

805
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 3: do that, and they started to pull back those you know,

806
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 3: so that you don't have Remember that documentary Ristreppo, I

807
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: mean that changed a lot of people's minds, where that

808
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 3: book generation kill having the guy literally in the front

809
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 3: Humby and people were like, oh, this is a clusterfuck.

810
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 3: I can't believe that this is what's happening. They shrank

811
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 3: that stuff way down. So and it's our military, which

812
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 3: is relatively relatively more open. Now we're talking about the

813
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: Israelian military, Ukrainian and other things. So that was the

814
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: preposterous nature of his argument. But there's also like a

815
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: personal thing happening there where Douglas he opened his segment

816
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 3: with Joe by being openly antagonistic, being like concern trolling

817
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: him over not having enough people.

818
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: Came to the expert there.

819
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: The specific moment that he was challenging Dave Smith about

820
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 4: have you been there? Was about when Dave Smith said

821
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: they're not letting in humanitarian aid. Yes, and he's and

822
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 4: he said, well, have you been been to the crossings?

823
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 4: And what's so insane about that is that Israel has

824
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 4: announced that since March second. I don't know when he

825
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 4: did his little tourist trip there, but Israel announced on

826
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 4: March second that they're not letting in aid. They said

827
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 4: it publicly. They have repeated that many times since then.

828
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 4: They have publicly said they're not letting in aid in

829
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 4: order to put pressure on the Palestinians through starvation to

830
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 4: get them to reach a different deal than the ceasefire

831
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 4: deal they've reached before. All you need is you don't

832
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 4: even need a subscription to new papers. You can just

833
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 4: read the free versions and you can read these quotes

834
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 4: from it. You don't need to go to the crossing.

835
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: In fact, if you go on a an Israeli sponsored

836
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 4: trip to a crossing and you observe anything different than

837
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 4: what they are saying they're doing, then you are being

838
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 4: lied to separately. The idea that you could just stand

839
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 4: at a crossing and look at some trucks and that

840
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: gives you any indication of what the humanitarian condition is

841
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: inside of Gaza is also preposterous. The idea that you

842
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 4: could sit in Sinwar's chair and know what the prices

843
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 4: of eggplants and tomatoes are at the market is absurd.

844
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: The way you find that out is you talk to

845
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 4: Palestinians who go to the markets. There are more than

846
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 4: a million of them. You can talk to them. So

847
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 4: reporting can be done without going inside there. Reporting can

848
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 4: be done by Palestinian journalists who are inside Gaza. But

849
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 4: the notion that you have to be there in order

850
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: to see that is undermined by the fact that what

851
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 4: he was saying that Aid was getting in was a lie.

852
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 5: He was wrong.

853
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: So yes, he's been there, but he's either a liar

854
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 4: or an idiot, exactly right.

855
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: And yet him and Bill Maher had to further concern

856
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: troll together on Bill Maher's show, Let's take a listen.

857
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 6: You were on Joe Rogan a couple of days ago,

858
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 6: a week ago, something like that. I got a lot

859
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 6: of press, and I'm glad you said what you said,

860
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 6: which is I mean, I mean, I like Joe, but

861
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,280
Speaker 6: he has on people who entertain these crazy conspiracy theories

862
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 6: and doesn't really push back on them. It's okay to

863
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 6: have I mean, I'm a free speech absolutist pretty much,

864
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 6: but there seems to be no pushback on this.

865
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 5: The reason I did this pushback, I mean, you just

866
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 5: have to. I mean, you just have to. In my view,

867
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 5: it's basic social hygiene.

868
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 8: If you've got somebody who's coming along who pretends to

869
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 8: be a historian, who then can always do the thing

870
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 8: of saying, oh, I actually don't call myself a historian,

871
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 8: it's just other people I allowed to call me a historian.

872
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 8: I'm not a car mechanic, but if I kept on

873
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 8: being introduced as a car mechanic, I would say, oh no,

874
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 8: you got the wrong guy. So they don't mind it.

875
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 8: They don't mind it. They have this slipout. These people

876
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 8: that are trying to call out on Joe's show, they

877
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 8: are doing things like Hitler wasn't that much of an

878
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 8: anti semi main problem in the twentieth century was Winston Churchill.

879
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 8: Winston Churchill was the warmonger. Adolf Hitler wanted peace, and

880
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 8: I just look, it's a matter of social hygiene. Don't

881
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 8: feed me this shit. What they're watering and what's going

882
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 8: to come up underneath them are going to be people

883
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 8: who believe this Rod and a lot of people you

884
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 8: can clearly see on the right at the moment, are

885
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 8: very happy if you can denigrate the tradition of Winston

886
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 8: Churchill and pretend that Adolf Hitler wasn't so bad, because

887
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 8: then you can do things like Christian nationalism. You can

888
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,240
Speaker 8: do really really tough nationalist stuff.

889
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 6: They basically by Kane album.

890
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 5: That's the lost stage.

891
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 3: So straw maning, he's like equating Dave Smith, Darryl Cooper

892
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: and Ian Carroll all in one. As he showed on

893
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: the show, he did not even really know that much

894
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,959
Speaker 3: about Cooper and nor Ian Carroll whenever he was trying

895
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 3: to denigrate them. But you know, let's just come back

896
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 3: to the final point about having been there and about gatekeeping.

897
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 3: This is a guy who, again when he was in

898
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 3: is what mid twenties wrote neo conservatism and why we

899
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 3: need it in six when the Iraq War was a disaster,

900
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 3: has since written books about migration, about wokeness, and now

901
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 3: about whatever. His latest in Defense of the West book

902
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 3: is he is just as unqualified and as lack of

903
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 3: an expert as any of those individuals, and to be honest,

904
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: actually less informed obviously from you know, his public comments

905
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 3: that are all on the subject.

906
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: They're so reductive.

907
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: And then finally, you know, for these two free speech

908
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: non gatekeepers and all those people bullshit, you're obvious you're

909
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: indicating right there for gatekeeping. And you know, when's the

910
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 3: last time anybody interesting was on Bill marshow be serious, Like,

911
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: let's be honest.

912
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 4: And on the point of him not being informed, he's

913
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 4: really playing weird games with this line where he was

914
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 4: saying that people quote unquote downplay or Hitler's anti semitism.

915
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 4: So apparently, like what he complained about on Rowan, He's like.

916
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: You were going to get into that, we can, but yeah,

917
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: we should just do.

918
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 5: A second because like what he's saying.

919
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 4: So Darryl Cooper and others have said that at various

920
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 4: times throughout Hitler's rise to power, he downplayed his own

921
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 4: anti semitism and his true designs for the Jewish people

922
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 4: in Germany and throughout Europe because those views were unpopular

923
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 4: with the German public and abroad in particular abroad, and

924
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 4: he had to smuggle those views in and then once

925
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 4: he got power, then he carried then he and people say, well,

926
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 4: he wrote my comp Yes. So it feels like this

927
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 4: shouldn't have to be explained to people, but apparently apparently

928
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 4: it does. Politicians often will say something earlier in their

929
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 4: career that is the truth, and then as they rise

930
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 4: through power, they downplay that correct say, I don't really

931
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 4: believe that. You know, I'm not for not for one

932
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty percent tariffs or not for pure free

933
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 4: trade and whatever is that in your interest in the

934
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: political moment, you say that he's not saying that Hitler

935
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 4: was not a thorough anti semi through and through with

936
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: designs on a genocide, a holocaust.

937
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 5: That's not what he's saying.

938
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: Let me just lay this out for people. Chapter one.

939
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 3: I was doing a rereading chapter one, Volume two Ian

940
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:54,320
Speaker 3: Kershaw's Hitler nineteen thirty six to nineteen forty.

941
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: Five, called Nemesis.

942
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 3: There's a citation chapter one about the nineteen thirty six

943
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: Berlin which year was the Olympics, I think it was six, Yeah,

944
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 3: nineteen thirty six Earlian Olympics. They took down all the

945
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 3: anti Semitic signs specifically to do what to make sure

946
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: to downplay the antizis. So this is a matter of empirical.

947
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 5: Fact because they thought it was embarrassing.

948
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: This is a matter of fact fact that they and

949
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: they even admitted it in documents that her Kershaw is

950
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 3: able to review.

951
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: And by the way, Kershaw is about as like. Kershaw

952
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: is not a quote unquote objective biographer. He hates it.

953
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: So he hates and he makes it very quick.

954
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 3: And you know what's funny is he actually does the

955
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 3: same thing in his introduction of his book that Daryl does,

956
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: where he goes I am I detest Hitler.

957
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 1: I find him disgusting.

958
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 3: However, I want to view with an objective, as a

959
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 3: lens as possible as to how this person is ideology

960
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 3: was able to rise in Germany, and with that we

961
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: must have some empathy and to try and to understand

962
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 3: from which this arose so that it may never happen again.

963
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 4: Right, And if you listen to Douglas Murray, ye, then

964
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 4: your view of Hitler is that he always was from

965
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 4: his chest expressing his full anti Semitic viewpoint, and he

966
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 4: came to power anyway. The reason that Douglas Murray's view

967
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 4: is dangerous is because it is wrong, and because it

968
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 4: would lead you then to say, Okay, a future Hitler

969
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 4: who we're going to try to prevent from coming to

970
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 4: power is only someone who was always screaming their anti

971
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 4: semitism from the rooftops, and that if they downplay it

972
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 4: at any point, that's not Hitler, and so we can

973
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 4: then it's okay, Okay, they've toned down some of their rhetoric,

974
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 4: so let's give them a second chance. What the actual

975
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 4: reading of the actual Hitler is is that you have

976
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 4: to figure out what they're going to do on your own,

977
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 4: not just from their own rhetoric. Because if you allow

978
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 4: their rhetoric to control what you think of them, they're

979
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 4: just going to fool you, like Hitler fooled the German public.

980
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 4: So Murray's interpretation, which is a historical and illiterate, is

981
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 4: actually the dangerous one because it could cause people to

982
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 4: then miss the next person totally.

983
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean yeah, I could go.

984
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: On this forever, but it's just ridiculous to me that

985
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: somebody who is supposedly an expert, I mean, this is

986
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 3: you know, what makes them It's funny. I'm talking about

987
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 3: this book as if someone No, I'm reading.

988
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 1: The that's the most possible.

989
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 5: That's the historical that is, like.

990
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like reading Band of Brothers for the first

991
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 3: time about World War Two.

992
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: Okay, that's it.

993
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,479
Speaker 3: That's the research historiography that it takes to be able

994
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: to cite something like this, and he's not even aware

995
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: of a basic reference. Okay, all right, Finally, let's talk

996
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 3: about the Pope, Pope Francis. We'd said at the beginning

997
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 3: with the Pope sadly passed away this morning, eighty eight

998
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: years old. Just yesterday met with Senator jd Vance. I

999
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 3: believe we have a sorry for Vice President JD.

1000
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: Vance.

1001
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 3: A matter of habit, we've got the Vice President, who

1002
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 3: himself is a practicing Catholic, meeting with the Pope. Vance

1003
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 3: put out a statement today about his passing. Let's see

1004
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 3: what he said. He said, I just learned the passing

1005
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 3: of Francis. My heart goes out to the millions of

1006
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: Christians all of the world who loved him. I was

1007
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 3: happy to see him yesterday, who he was obviously very ill.

1008
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 3: I'll always remember him from the below homily he gave

1009
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 3: in the early age of the early days of COVID.

1010
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: It was really quite beautiful. May God rest his soul. So,

1011
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunate timing. Therefore, the Vice president, I think

1012
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: we can say.

1013
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 4: That, well, there were reports that the Pope had snubbed

1014
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 4: him and said, well, now it's obviously he was just

1015
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 4: like sent his deputy out to give him a lecture

1016
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 4: about morality and particularly in the context of the creeping

1017
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 4: authoritarianism and the treatment of migrants. And yeah, so I

1018
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 4: think you can forgive the Pope for not making the

1019
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 4: broader we for our meeting. You know, this was a

1020
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 4: pope who I'm sure from the right people are not

1021
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 4: a big fan of. You know, he came in at

1022
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 4: the beginning of the kind of greater Wokening, the global

1023
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 4: great Awokening did and one of the so he you know,

1024
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 4: he he had a lot of left wing instincts well

1025
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 4: back like that for the you know, support for the poor,

1026
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 4: support for migrants. What really ticks people off is when

1027
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 4: he came in and said nice things about gaining lesbian people,

1028
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 4: and towards the end allowed the Catholic Church to even

1029
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 4: bless you know, gay marriages.

1030
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: Did he? I forget exactly. It's there's always controversy.

1031
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 4: And then uh loosened the loosened the rules for divorced Catholics.

1032
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there were there's a huge debate inside

1033
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 3: of the Catholic By the way, I know non Catholic

1034
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 3: I'm friends with some and they me doing some secondhand,

1035
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: you know, explanations.

1036
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: So if I get this wrong, I'm sorry.

1037
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 3: But I know that there are a lot of fights

1038
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 3: within Catholicism and this we we were talking earlier about

1039
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 3: the show The Young Pope, and there's like a big

1040
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: debate about modernization of Catholicism versus like returning to some

1041
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 3: sort of like Latin service and you know, Vatican two

1042
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 3: and some of the previous edicts that was meant to

1043
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 3: modernize the church and make it more accessible to millions

1044
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 3: of people, like quote unquote meeting people where they are

1045
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 3: as opposed to like sticking to the dogma and to

1046
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,919
Speaker 3: the long held teachings and the structure. Now, I do

1047
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 3: think that the conservatives have been validated in that Catholicism

1048
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 3: remains down. You know, across the world, the number of

1049
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 3: practicing Catholics continues to decline. So the idea of like

1050
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: meeting people where they're at and being more socially transformed

1051
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 3: or whatever has not really worked.

1052
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: Out for them.

1053
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 5: Maybe the decline would be worse.

1054
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 3: It could be worse. It's unfalsifiable. But what I'm saying

1055
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 3: is like, for a lot of the more conservative elopments

1056
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 3: in the church, their belief is that their belief is

1057
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 3: that by trying to modernize, you've both betrayed like the

1058
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 3: base of like practicing conservative Catholicism, while also not even

1059
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:01,280
Speaker 3: preserving what you meant to, which is like the throngs

1060
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 3: of people coming into the church, and also making sure

1061
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 3: that you have more people who are practitioners. Again, this

1062
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 3: is just my like outside analysis, but I do know

1063
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 3: it generally reflects like big fights within it and about

1064
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 3: who gets blessed or who gets cardinalship or whatever. And

1065
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 3: so within that that is the dynamic heading into what

1066
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 3: will inevitably be the next papal conclave and how they

1067
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 3: then respond to kind of the way that this pope

1068
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 3: decided to both guide the church and make himself obviously

1069
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 3: the face you know, as the Holy Father. And so

1070
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: what the policy is that flows from that is actually

1071
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: pretty interesting because it's also a direction that a lot

1072
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 3: of Christian churches in America are grappling with. Right, You've

1073
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: got Methodist Church. I mean, this is a huge schism

1074
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 3: about like BLM and pro gay friendly churches, and some

1075
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 3: people are like this is auretical right, and so there's

1076
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: like big fights and splits within the same argument I'm

1077
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,080
Speaker 3: talking to you about right now, is like liberalization has

1078
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: not increased a more Christian country or any of that.

1079
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: There's fight.

1080
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously it's Protestantism, so they can actually fight

1081
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: about the Word of Jesus. But it is interesting, you know,

1082
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 3: we'll see, I'm curious see which direction they go into.

1083
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 4: And I have a ton of Catholic family members, cousins

1084
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 4: really mostly like Oklahoma, but they've spread out, spread out

1085
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 4: from Oklahoma. Uncle who moved to Oklahoma to be in

1086
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 4: the Air Force converted and and so the Grim, the

1087
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 4: Grim family out in Oklahoma now. And my my, my

1088
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 4: sense of it is that there's more room room to

1089
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 4: move in a liberal direction because the more conservative Catholics

1090
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: they're kind of dug in, like like they're going either way.

1091
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 4: They're gonna grumble about it, but but they're they're sticking

1092
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 4: with it.

1093
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 5: And while we're doing it.

1094
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 4: One of my cousins, Christy, her boyfriend now Garrett, is

1095
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 4: a huge fan of the show Shadow. He like, it

1096
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 4: didn't even believe, No, what that's your cousin because her

1097
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 4: last name is not Grim.

1098
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: That's cool.

1099
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 5: It used to be.

1100
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: I know, it actually didn't used to be so anyway

1101
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:00,879
Speaker 4: out the Garrett.

1102
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we love you guys.

1103
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 5: Okay, Oh one other, one other thing.

1104
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 4: The reason I'm here today and not and Crystal will

1105
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,879
Speaker 4: be in on Wednesday is that my wife is getting

1106
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 4: surgery tomorrow. So I just wanted to say, you know,

1107
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 4: thank you uh to everybody for all the warm wishes,

1108
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,359
Speaker 4: the prayers. Everything is as we've as we've gone through this.

1109
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 4: So her chemo is now all done. The battle is

1110
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 4: going well. Uh, we'll find out more after after the surgery.

1111
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 4: Then there'll be a little bit of radiation. And you know,

1112
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 4: the thing I've learned is like it's obvious, but this

1113
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 4: stuff is hell. And there's a lot of people who

1114
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 4: are going through this as we speak, or have have

1115
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 4: gone through it, and you know, we're we're with you.

1116
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 4: There are setbacks, there's uh, but you know there's there

1117
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 4: are triumphs and you know.

1118
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 5: It's it's helpful to have that that the community and

1119
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 5: so really appreciate it.

1120
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: Dude.

1121
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 3: Everybody is behind you, the team, the audience. It's inspirational,

1122
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 3: your data or mother for fighting cancer.

1123
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tear up even talking about it.

1124
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 3: Having a kid, it's like even thinking about what you

1125
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 3: guys have to go through, it's it's crazy.

1126
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 1: So you're you're an inspiration to me and slush, So

1127
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: thank you, man.

1128
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 5: I'm looking forward to welcoming you into the Land of

1129
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 5: the Father.

1130
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm excited to join. All right, We'll see you

1131
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: guys later.