1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: Good evenings and a landmark ruling. The Supreme Court today 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: legalized abortions to majority and to raise the dignity of 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: woman and give her freedom of choice in this area 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: is an extraordinary event. Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric, and 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: this is Abortion the Body Politic Part three. Today we 6 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: explored that historic nineteen seventy three decision and it's unraveling 7 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: in the five decades that followed. But let's begin where 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: we left off. When someone doesn't really know who I 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: am and have heard that I'm a lawyer, but they 10 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: don't know how much about me? When I'd say, well, 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of the case of roversus Wade? 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: And then they're usually stunned, because I mean, it's aten 13 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: still described as the most one of the most well 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: known cases in favor of shouldn't that there is? My 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: name is Linda Nelling. Coffee and Iron, my late friend 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: Sarah Weddington were the two women did that pursued the 17 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: case of Roe versus Wade. It's impossible to talk about 18 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: the abortion rights movement without first talking to Linda. Linda 19 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: is the last living Road prosecutor after Sarah Weddington died 20 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: on December Linda knows the case intimately, and at eighty 21 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: she's witnessed the decades long fight to chip away at Row. 22 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: She spoke to us from a studio not far from 23 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: her home, which she shares with her longtime partner Becky Hart. 24 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: I had the distinct honor of having a blind day 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: with Lee Cogan December night three, and over the course 26 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: of a whole evening, she said that she had worked 27 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: with Sarah Winnington on this Ruby Wade case. I said, well, no, 28 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: if that can't be, I'm a Dallas side. It was 29 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: a Dallas attorney named Linda Coffee, and her face fell 30 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: because she's that introverted. So for thirty eight years we've 31 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: been together, She's done mostly bankruptcy law, and I've done 32 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: different jobs and things. Linda is a lifelong Texan and 33 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: lives in a small town about eighty five miles east 34 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: of Dallas. She was born in Houston, graduated from Rice University, 35 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: and went on to law school. I went to University 36 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: of Texas at Austin and there were only about including me, 37 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: there was only about six women into the class that 38 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: that I started with, and we all would talk together 39 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: in the one place we usually could talk and and 40 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: not have to worry about anyone overhearing us was in 41 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: the the women's restroom, which was on the first floor 42 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: of the building. We were coming up at a time 43 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: when things were changing quickly for women. That was really 44 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: excited to think about helping women prepared to gain higher 45 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: positions and to seek a way of continuing their education 46 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: and not be compromised or having to worry about being 47 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: fired if they became pregnant or had someone decided they 48 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: had to meet children and they might not continue to 49 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: do a good job. After graduating from law school with 50 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: honors in getting the second highest score on the state 51 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: bar exam, Linda earned a coveted clerkship with Judge Sarah Hughes, 52 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: Texas is first female federal judge who was best known 53 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: for swearing and Lyndon B. Johnson aboard Air Force one 54 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: after President Kennedy was assassinated in nineteen sixty three that 55 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: I was thankfully once again, here's Becky Hart. It's hard 56 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: to get a clerk job for the judges. You have 57 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: to be intelligent and do very well in law school. Succinctly, 58 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: Linda's scores were so high that she applied for that job, 59 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: and she got it. It's an honor, and that's what 60 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: set the whole ball in motion on abortion rights. The 61 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: first case that I was aware of was the case 62 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: out in California in nineteen sixty seven. California Governor Ronald 63 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: Reagan was among the first to liberalize abortion laws, extending 64 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: exceptions for therapeutic abortions. But the case Linda's talking about 65 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: came two years later in nineteen sixty nine, the People 66 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: Versus Bellis. The four to three decision from the state 67 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: Supreme Court declared California's eighteen fifty criminal abortion law unconstitutional. 68 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: The ruling helped repeal a conviction of Dr Leon P. Bellis, 69 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: who helped a woman get an abortion. It was a big, 70 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: big news deal. So I've just read about the case 71 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: just in the Dallas Morning News, and then I knew 72 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: there were some other cases that then followed, like there 73 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: was a case in Wisconsin, and then there was a 74 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: case in New York. So that's why I thought that 75 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: there would be a decent chance to win the case 76 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: if we filed in Texas. I still kept in contact 77 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: with some of the with Sarah what Eaton and some 78 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: of the other women that that I knew in my 79 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: class that it graduated. One of the things I did 80 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: when I decided that I had a sufficient basis was 81 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: I wrote to Sarah because I had heard she was 82 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: plady to follow them suit against the Texas abortion Law. 83 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: So I wrote her a letter and said to see 84 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: if she was interested in and enjoining me in that suit. 85 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: They teamed up and on March third, nineteen seventy, Linda 86 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: filed a suit in Dallas on behalf of their client, 87 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: Norman McCorvey, using the pseudonym Jane Rowe. The hearing before 88 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: the three judge Corey in Dallas went went pretty smoothly. 89 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: The lower court unanimously ruled in Jane Roe's favor, finding 90 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: the Texas abortion law unconstitutional because it violated the right 91 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 1: to privacy. But when the district Attorney Henry Wade yes 92 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: that Wade announced he would continue to pursue abortion cases, 93 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: Linda was able to file a repeal directly to the 94 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Oral arguments were set for December thirteenth, nineteen 95 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: seventy one. We here arguments number eighteen against whenever you're ready, 96 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: Mr Chief Justice, and may have pleased the court. The 97 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: instant case is a direct appeal from a decision of 98 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,679 Speaker 1: the United States District Court of the Northern District of Texas, 99 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: and then again on October eleventh, nine first eighteen to 100 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: roll against Wade Yes Lyndon. Sarah had to reargue the case, 101 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: a rare occurrence because there were only seven justices present 102 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: the first time. Weddington, you may proceed when here you're ready, 103 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Mr Chief Justice, and may have placed the court. We 104 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: are once again before this Court to ask relief against 105 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: the continued enforcement of the Texas Abortion Statute, and asked 106 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: that you affirm the ruling of the three judge court below, 107 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: which held our statute unconstitutional for two reasons, the first 108 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: that it was vague and the second that it interfered 109 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: with the Night Amendment right of a woman to determine 110 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: whether or not she would continue or terminate a pregnancy. 111 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: As you will recall there are Linda recalls a few 112 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: details that stand out about her Supreme Court experience. The 113 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: closest restroom to where the Supreme Court held their arguments 114 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: was three three big staircases below. People would probably notice 115 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: that if they were women, but not not men. And 116 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: at one of the arguments, some of the justices wives 117 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: were sitting in the courtroom. I wouldn't have recognized the wives, 118 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: but I just told us we were walking in that 119 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: several of the wives of the Supreme Court were there. 120 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: So I just assumed that that probably meant from people 121 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: that had been around more Supreme Court arguments than I had, 122 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: that that was probably a good sign that that wasn't 123 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: considered important by the court. While Linda and Sarah split 124 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: the oral arguments and the lower court, it was Sarah 125 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: who presented and the Supreme Court. Linda took notes. She spoke, 126 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: and I thought she did very well, and uh, it 127 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 1: was kind of hard to write everything down, so I 128 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: tried to just write down the questions because I figured 129 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: i'd remember the the answers. I think I was probably 130 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: more nervous that time. I wasn't that nervous before the 131 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 1: three judge court in Dallas, but to get it when 132 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: you're really going for the highest court in the land. Curiously, 133 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: the original Road decision was leaked to a Supreme Court 134 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: clerk shared the court ruling on background to a Time 135 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: magazine reporter, But when the decision was delayed slightly and 136 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: Time a weekly ran the story anyway, it appeared in 137 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: print the day before the actual decision was handed down. 138 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: I first read the Time magazine that said the Supreme 139 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: Court was ready to overrule the Texas abortion law and 140 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: it was going to be about a serace of seven 141 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: to vote. So I had read about it, I think 142 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: the day before it came out. And Sarah said she 143 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: found out about it when she heard the decision that 144 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: was rendered the next day, and that's when she started 145 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: getting her phone was calling and and at first she 146 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: wasn't sure what it was, and they were they were 147 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: saying that we had won, and that was just that 148 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: was just great because the phones were calling and everything 149 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: was mostly mostly on the only the people that called 150 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: were very positive about it. I really thought that was 151 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: gonna be it after the first Supreme Court victory. But 152 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: the afternoon after the decision in Roe versus Way came out, 153 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: L b J died. The senior partner in the firm 154 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: that I was with came in and said, well, you've 155 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: been knocked off the front page because L b J died, 156 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: And and that's what was the headline and the Dallas 157 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: Morning News and then our story I think it was 158 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: below what they called below the fold. Here's abortion legal 159 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: scholar Mary Ziggler to help explain the details of the decision. 160 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: Gen the Supreme Court voted seven to two in nineteen 161 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: seventy three that that law was unconstitutional and that it 162 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: violated a constitutional right to privacy that the Court had 163 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: recognized in earlier rulings on things like marriage and contraception. 164 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: The Court held that right to privacy was broad enough 165 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: to encompass the decision about whether to have an abortion, 166 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: and the Court laid out what at the time was 167 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: called the trimester frameworks that would be used to determine 168 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: if abortion laws were constitutional. The Court also rejected a 169 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: lot of key anti abortion arguments, like the argument that 170 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: the Constitution recognized fetal personhood, which would have made abortion 171 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: unconstitutional nationwide. So, coming out of Row, um, you know, 172 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: the majority of state laws that were then on the 173 00:11:49,520 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: books were rendered unconstitutional. We'll be right back. Well, I 174 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: think it depends on where you stand and who you are, 175 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: whether you think that Row was successful or unsuccessful. Historian 176 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: Ricky Solinger. When feminists and other women experienced the Roe v. 177 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: Wade decision in they expected that a nationalization of the 178 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: right to abortion would lead to a number of transformative 179 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: experiences for women in the United States. They expected marriages 180 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: that were more equal, They were possessors of their own sexuality, 181 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: that they could have premarital sex without the fear of 182 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: unwed pregnancy and the shames that that had carried for 183 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: several decades. They felt much safer embracing their own sexuality 184 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 1: and pursuing it. Then, of course, there were the economic 185 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: expectations that if you can control your fertility, you have 186 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: a much better chance of being able to pursue the 187 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: educational programs that you said before, yourself, making professional choices, 188 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: being able to get a job, that you can time 189 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: your maternity according to your professional growth, that you can 190 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 1: stay or go where you can be an equal to 191 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: your husband and also be economically independent, changes the landscape 192 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: so profoundly that you're hardly the same person anymore that 193 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 1: that has enormous repercussions for what woman means. Other women 194 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: have been very clear eyed about the limits of the 195 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: impact of legalization. As Black women, we knew that role 196 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: was going to be inadequate to protect us from the 197 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: intersectional oppression. Activists. Academic and one of the founders of 198 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: the reproductive justice movement, Loretta Ross, the National Council of 199 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: Negro Women wrote a statement about that in nine three 200 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: in response to ROW, when they talked about how role 201 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: will become just another way to deny Black women are 202 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: full human rights, are full right to self determination. And 203 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: the reason we know that, or knew that well because 204 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: there were so many way other ways that we had 205 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: already experienced where Black women's parenting and reproductive options were 206 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: being threatened, like with sterilization abuse, but more gregious and 207 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: more obvious. Was at any time Black women became civically 208 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: active around voting rights or housing rights or trying to 209 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: fight violence that was technical any of that time, the 210 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: first thing the government would do would be to threaten 211 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: to take our children away, you know, and fighting well 212 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: abortion rights didn't address that. We always knew that even 213 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: if we had fully funded abortion services that were totally 214 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: safe and totally accessible, we still suffer from a racialized 215 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: gender oppression that we had to fight. The leaders of 216 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: Reproductive Justice point out regularly that abortion has been legal 217 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:07,479 Speaker 1: for fifty years, but how accessible has it been two 218 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: women without resources to be adequate consumers. So we know 219 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: that Within two years of ROW, the Congress worked very 220 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: hard to pass the High Amendment, which by the by 221 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: the was complete, which said no federal funding for abortion 222 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: the one medical prostidure that was singled out to be 223 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: excluded from federal funding um under the Medicaid Act, and 224 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: that meant that poor women were poor choicemakers. The pro 225 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: choice framework assumed that you have choices, it's a marketplace idea, 226 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: when actually the marketplace doesn't work well for people who 227 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: don't have you know, the currency or the privileged as 228 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: a marketplace doesn't the same way the SBA. The Texas 229 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: abortion ban is not gonna fall most heavily on women 230 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: with the means to go to another state. It's gonna 231 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: fall it was heavily on the people who are trapped, 232 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,719 Speaker 1: who can't go anywhere. The Norman G. Mccorby's of the world, 233 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: the original Rose who idonically was from Texas. Loretta understands 234 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: this all too well. She's the survivor of sexual violence 235 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: and sterilization. You might recall some of Loretta's story from 236 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: episode two, but how a university while I was a 237 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: student there, I accepted implantation of the i U D 238 00:17:55,119 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: called the Dalkon shield in despite her i U causing 239 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: acute pelvic inflammatory disease. A doctor refused to take out 240 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: the device and her fallopian tubes burst. I didn't enter 241 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: this movement fighting for abortion rights. I was into the 242 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: movement fighting for the right to have children. And it 243 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: wasn't until I got into the work that I saw 244 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: that they were two sides of the same coin, and 245 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: it's all about denying women the right to con to 246 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: make our own reproductive decisions, whether to have a child 247 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: or not to have a child. And then when you 248 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: intersect the sexual violence I had been through, then I 249 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: knew that we needed a larger framework than what the 250 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: current discussions were paralyzed by that pro life pro choice dichotomy, 251 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: which was so inadequate for describing my lived experiences. And 252 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: so how reproductive justice developed was at a conference organized 253 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: by the Illinois Pro Choice Alliance in June in Chicago. 254 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: On the first day of the conference, we heard a 255 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: presentation by representative of the Clinton administration. Hillary Clinton had 256 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: been put in charge of the Clinton administration effort to 257 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: do health care reform, but this representative said that they 258 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: knew was going to be a fight to get healthcare 259 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: reform past the Republicans, and so they conceptualized that if 260 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: they omitted or at least reduced all references to reproductive healthcare, 261 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: that that would increase his chances of passage. There were 262 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: twelvels black women who were at this conference. The prefer 263 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: might have been even more but able. Mabel Thomas, who 264 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: was a Georgia state representative at the time, called us 265 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: together in her hotel room that night after we heard 266 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: this presentation, and she's like, this doesn't make any sense. 267 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: Why would they come to a feminist conference, a pro 268 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: choice conference asked us to endorse a healthcare plan that 269 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: omitsreproductive healthcare. That's like the most male centric health care 270 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: plan you could think of, because reproductive healthcare is what 271 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: drives women to the doctor. That was the night in 272 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: which we conceptualize to reproductive justice because the other thing 273 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: that we realized was that we were dissatisfied with how 274 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: abortion was always isolated from social justice issues, and that 275 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: isolation wasn't doing us any good. Are representing what black 276 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: women went through because any time a woman is pregnant, 277 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: oh well, let's put it this way, she doesn't even 278 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: have to be pregnant. Any time her period is just late, 279 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: she has what we call all these oh my God conversations, 280 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: Oh my God, am I pregnant? Oh my God? What 281 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: am I gonna tell my mom? Or what am I 282 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: gonna tell my partner? Am I gonna keep my job? 283 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: Or can I stay in school? Or do even I'm 284 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: in bedroom to put this child in. So she's got 285 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: good answers to the oh my God questions, This is 286 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: gonna turn an unplanned pregnancy into a wanted child. But 287 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: if she has bad answers to the oh my God question, 288 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: she may even turn a planned pregnancy into an abortion. 289 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: And so for the pro life movement and the pro 290 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: choice we with the both start with the pregnancy is 291 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: starting too far downstream in our opinion. If you really 292 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: want to quote reduce the need for abortion, really talk 293 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: about how actual human beings make decisions and address those 294 00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: things that discourage people from becoming parents. And so we 295 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: spliced together social justice and reproductive rights to create the 296 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: term reproductive justice. We define reproductive justice as the right 297 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: to have a child, the right not to have a child, 298 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: and the right to raise your children in safe and 299 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: healthy environments. And then that was how we articulated in 300 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: a but by two thousand and four, a new generation 301 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: of activists were coming up Black women in particular, who 302 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 1: are arguing that the original three tenants didn't include gender 303 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: not conforming in LGBT people, and so they added a 304 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 1: fourth tenant to talk about the right to gender identity, 305 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: sexual pleasure, and self determination in terms of one's reproductive 306 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: options and choices. I'm pleased to say that even though 307 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: we didn't intend it to move so successfully from the 308 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: margins to the center, it has done that, and it 309 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: is supplanted how people talk about reproductive politics moving up 310 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: beyond that pro choice, pro life. Binary people have realized 311 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: that that framework, that limited framework, has outlived it's useful this. 312 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: My name is Laurada Lee Wallace, and I am a 313 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: organizer based in othern California, and I am work with 314 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: our statewid abortion front here in California called Access Reproductive Justice. 315 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: So my first abortion, the pregnancy test came back positive, 316 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: and before I could even get off the toilet with 317 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: the pregnancy test in my hand, I had messaged one 318 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: of my friends who I knew was very active in 319 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: the reprosidais and was also on the board of our 320 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: abortion from back home, who was also like my supervisor 321 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: at the time at the Reproductive dresses order that I 322 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: was working with. Um, it was like, Hey, I'm pregnant, 323 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: don't want to be what do I do? Like verbatim, 324 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: And she was like, perfect, you came to the right place. 325 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: We'll get you squared away. Like what do you need? 326 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I can't afford an abortion. First and foremost, 327 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: I was a Medicaid recipient, and we know because of 328 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: the High Ammendment that you can't medicate recipients, can't you know, 329 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: use their Medicaid to provide to cover abortion costs. It 330 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: was also a full time student at the time a 331 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: couple of years emancipated from the foster care system. So 332 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: I was essentially like on my own, um, and I 333 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: have messaged her and asked her like, I don't know, 334 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: I don't really know what I need right now, um, 335 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: but I just need the money. UM. So I was 336 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: able to pledge maybe like a hundred dollars to my 337 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: abortion at the time, but that was all I could 338 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: do and the Abortion Fund covered the rest. But as 339 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: I was in the clinic, I was like watching a 340 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: bunch of news coverage around the murders of Brianna Taylor 341 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,880 Speaker 1: in the mad Aubrey as I'm sitting in this abortion 342 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: clinic as I'm also thinking, like I hope I don't 343 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: get COVID, and also as my support people can't come 344 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: in with me to the clinic because of COVID. So 345 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: I'm like sitting here in this clinic for like I 346 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: have like three appointments, like two and a half three 347 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: hours at a time, um if like peak covid. Um So, 348 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: I was able to get my abortion medication. But I 349 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: had my appointment on a Friday, and because the clinic 350 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: wasn't open on Saturday or Sunday, and there's that twenty 351 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: four hour waiting period. Even though I had had them 352 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: my ultrasound and like everything was good to go, I 353 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: had to wait until that following Monday to then get 354 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: my medication. But then I had to wait another two 355 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: and a half hours after the doctor got done seeing 356 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: everybody to just to get my medication. UM So I 357 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: was able to get you know, my medication and go 358 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: home and you know, finish my abortion and went back 359 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: a few weeks later to make sure that um I 360 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: didn't have like any retain products um of the pregnancy, 361 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: and I didn't, so I was fine. Um but I 362 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: did like the cart was outside of the abortion clinic. 363 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: Was so happy that it was finally over because I 364 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: knew immediately when I was pregnant that I wanted to 365 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: have an abortion. There was also no shame in it. 366 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: I was actually also very empowered that for the first 367 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: time in my life and realizing, you know that this 368 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: is a decision that I'm making for me and historically, 369 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, black women and them have not been able 370 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: to make their own reproductive decisions. And also as someone 371 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: who has essentially been a word of the state, you know, 372 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: being owned, you know, by the state as a foster, 373 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: as the foster care youth, it made all the difference 374 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: for me because I'm like, Wow, this is like one 375 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: of the biggest decisions for me, um in my life 376 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: that I'm going to going to make or to not 377 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: make right regardless of what happens, is going to impact 378 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: the trajectory of my life forever. So being able to 379 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: make that decision as a black person first and foremost 380 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: um and also for myself made all the difference for me. 381 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: When we come back how abortion got politicized before Roe v. Wade, 382 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: the pro life movement was not partisan. Daniel Williams is 383 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: a historian and author of Defenders of the Unborn. The 384 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: pro life movement before Roe v. Wade, if one had 385 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: to describe it as associated with a particular ideology rather 386 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 1: than the other, it would be more accurate to describe 387 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: it as a liberal political movement than a conservative one, 388 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: because the majority of pro life activists before Row were 389 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: for the most part Democrats who believed in the principles 390 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: of an expanded social welfare state. The pro life movement 391 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: was overwhelmingly Catholic before Roe v. Wade, and most Northeastern 392 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: and Midwestern Catholics had in the nineteen sixties and early 393 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,479 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies been shaped to at least a certain extent 394 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: by the assumptions of of New Deal liberalism, the assumptions 395 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: that the state had an obligation to care for the 396 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: less fortunate. A number of pro life activists in the 397 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies were also hosted 398 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: Vietnam War. The number were very liberal Democrats. UH number 399 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: head concerns about capital punishment. UH and some of the 400 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: pro life organizations at the time advocated expanded a maternal 401 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: health insurance, subsidized daycare, other ways to to encourage women 402 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: to not have abortions and to empower them to make 403 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: the decisions not to have abortions. What I call the 404 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: abortion myth is the fiction that the religious right galvanized 405 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: as a political movement in response to the Roe v. 406 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: Wage decision of January twenty two, nineteen seventy three. I'm 407 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: Randall Balmer, John Phillips, Professor in Religion at Dartmouth College, 408 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: and my most recent book is Bad Faith, Race and 409 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: the Rise of the Religious Right. To understand the context, 410 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 1: you have to understand that for roughly fifty years before 411 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: that moment, evangelicals were not engaged politically, certainly not in 412 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: an organized way. Many were not even register devote, and 413 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: so there emergence as a political force in the nineteen 414 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: seventies was a major event, and as we see now, 415 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: it really began the reshaping of the American political landscape 416 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: on the subject of abortion, and eventually row evangelicals were 417 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: actually supportive in Christianity. Today magazine, which is the flagship 418 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: magazine of evangelicalism, conducted a conference with the Christian Medical Society. 419 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: Twenty three heavyweight theologians from the evangelical world showed up 420 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: and over several days debated the morality of abortion. At 421 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: the conclusion of that meeting, they issued a statement saying, 422 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: we can't decide whether or not abortion is a moral issue, 423 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: but we think it should be available. In seventy one, 424 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: the Southern Baptist Convention, not known as the redubt of Liberalism, 425 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: passed the resolution calling for the legalization of abortion, which 426 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: they reaffirmed in nineteen seventy four, the year after Roe v. Wade, 427 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: and again in nineteen seventy six when the Roe v. 428 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: Wade ruling was handed down. Several evangelical leaders praised the 429 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade decision. The mobilization of evangelicals as a 430 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 1: political movement did start with a court ruling, but it 431 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: wasn't row. It was a ruling on segregated private schools 432 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: that came out of a district court in Washington, d c. 433 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: And on June thirty nine, seventy one, the district court 434 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: ruled that and the organization that engages in racial segregation 435 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: or racial discrimination is not, by definition a charitable institution, 436 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: and therefore it has no claims on tax exempt status. 437 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: As the Internal Revenue Service began to enforce that ruling 438 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: over the course that I seventies. It got the attention 439 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: of places like Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, 440 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: a fundamental school that had segregation virtually written into its charter, 441 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: as well as people like Jerry Folwell, who had started 442 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: his own segregation academy in Lynchburg, Virginia in nineteen sixty seven. 443 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: It's time now for the Old Time Gospel Hour with 444 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: Jerry Folwell, master of the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia. 445 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: We are not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. That 446 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: is what proved to be the catalyst for the organizing 447 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: surrounding the religious way. So how did the evangelical movement 448 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: go from supporting school segregation to the powerful conservative force 449 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: in American politics that it is today. The answer a 450 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: man named Paul Wyrick. Wyrick was clever enough to realize 451 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: that organizing a political movement to defend racial segregation was 452 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: not likely to generate a huge grassroots audience, so he 453 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: made two moves. The first move he made was to say, no, 454 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,719 Speaker 1: we're not defending racial segregation. We are defending religious freedom, 455 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: which is writing a page from the current current religious 456 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: right Republican Party playbook his second move really fell into 457 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: his lap, and that was the abortion issue, and that happened. 458 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: In the midterm elections. Wyck determined, according to his own account, 459 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: to go out at elect some improbable people in He 460 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: focused on four Senate races, and in all four of 461 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: those elections. The final weekend, pro lifers leafletted church parking lots, 462 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: and two days later all four favored Democratic candidates lost 463 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: to anti abortion Republicans. He finally had found the issue 464 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: that he could use to mobilize grassroots evangelicals. Abortion is 465 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 1: a very fairly low cost political issue. The fetus does 466 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: not demand healthcare, a fetus does not demand an education, 467 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: and so the adoption of abortion as the central plank 468 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: of the religious right early in the nineties really it 469 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: didn't didn't cost them much in terms of a political price. 470 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: In the ninety six presidential election, evangelicals voted for one 471 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: of their own, Jimmy Carter, a proud born again Christian. 472 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: But ahead of the nineteen eighty election, evangelical leaders openly 473 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: targeted the Democrat and sought to find a candidate who 474 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: would do more for their cause. They began sort of 475 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:22,320 Speaker 1: canvassing the Republican field, looking for a challenger two, Jimmy Carter, 476 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: and finally, of course, they settled on Ronald Reagan, an 477 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: unlikely choice because here you had governor of California, Hollywood actor. 478 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: Hollywood was not exactly known as a province of piety 479 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,240 Speaker 1: to many evangelicals, and somebody who had been divorced and remarried, 480 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: who in nineteen sixty seven had signed into law of 481 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: the most liberal abortion bill in the country. And nevertheless, 482 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 1: the religious right decided that Reagan was going to be 483 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: their political messiah. In night, I came across a memorandum 484 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: from within the Reagan Bush campaign, and I don't remember 485 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: the precise state, but I believe September of nine, and 486 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: the internal memorandum said, we're in trouble here. Uh, we're 487 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: not pulling away from Carter. We have to somehow rejig 488 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: our message. And one of the recommendations was to start 489 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: talking about abortion. If there's even a question about when 490 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: human life begins, isn't it our duty to err on 491 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: the side of life. We must not rest. And I 492 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: a pledge to you that I will not rest until 493 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: a human life amendment becomes a part of our constitution. 494 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: With a so called pro Life President in the White House. 495 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: Thanks to his evangelical base, the anti abortion movement gets 496 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: to work once again. Legal scholar Mary Ziggler. Initially, the 497 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: anti abortion movement focused its attentions on a constitutional amendment 498 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: that would have not just overturned Robe, but banned abortion 499 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: coast to coast. By the early eighties, it was becoming 500 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: increasingly clear that that just wasn't going to happen. So 501 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: then the movement kind of changed its focus, and its 502 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: inspiration in part came from Supreme Court decision where Ronald 503 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: Reagan's first nominee, Sandra Day O'Connor writes this descent, essentially 504 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: suggesting that Rod doesn't make a lot of sense. And 505 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: so the anti abortion movement looks at this descent and says, 506 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, more people like Sandra Day O'Connor on the court. 507 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: We might not be able to get abortion banned nationwide, 508 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,879 Speaker 1: but we could at least get real overturned for groups life. 509 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: The National Right to Life Committee overturning Roe v. Wade 510 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: has become the Holy Grail, has has become the race 511 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: on detra of the pro life movement, which it never 512 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: originally was. Again Daniel Williams and once the strategy shifted 513 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 1: to that as the goal, then it became very difficult 514 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: for any pro life activists to imagine supporting Democratic presidents 515 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: or Democratic senators who would not want to see the 516 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court shifted to the right on this particular issue, 517 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: And similarly, with the Republican Party, became more and more 518 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: difficult for most pro choice Republicans who care strongly about 519 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: the issue to imagine staying in a party that was 520 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: moving so decisively toward making Row a thing of the past. 521 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: If the goal is to appoint particular Supreme Court justices, 522 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: then the situation that we're in today is one where 523 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: Republican presidents are going to make sure that the justice 524 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: that they appoint is going to likely vote overturn Row, 525 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: and Democratic presidents, on the other hand, are always going 526 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,399 Speaker 1: to try to appoint a justice who supp courts abortion rights, 527 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: who wants to leave the parameters of route intact. It 528 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: was not clear until the early at least that Supreme 529 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: Court appointments would decide the fate of Row. The Supreme Court, 530 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: it's what it's all about. The justices that I'm going 531 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: to a point will be pro life. They will have 532 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: a conservative bent. I think the case that most people 533 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,760 Speaker 1: are thinking about right now, in the case that every 534 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: nominee gets asked about, Role v. Wade, Can you tell 535 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: me whether Roe was decided correctly? Center Again, I would 536 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: tell you that Roe versus Wade decided in seventy three 537 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: as a president United States Supreme Court, it has been 538 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: reaffirmed well as a general proposition. I understand the importance 539 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: of the precedent set forth in Roe v. Wade. But again, 540 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: I can't pre commit or say yes, I'm going in 541 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: with some agenda because I'm not. I don't have any agenda. 542 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: I have no agenda to try to overrule casey um. 543 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: I have an agenda to stick to the rule of 544 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: law and decide cases as they come. We'll be right back. 545 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: Even if evangelicals didn't rally around the anti abortion movement 546 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: until the late nineteen seventies, the anti agitation started almost 547 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: immediately after row Here's sociologists Carol Joffey Roll versus Wade 548 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,799 Speaker 1: was decided in January nineteen seventy three. Literally four days 549 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: later in Congress Um there's a resolution introduced the so 550 00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: called Church Amendment, named after Senator Frank church A, that 551 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,200 Speaker 1: no entity would lose any phones if they refused to 552 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: perform abortion. So it was clear to me that this 553 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: was going to be an issue that was very divisive. 554 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: They called me and they said, would you be willing 555 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 1: to help but start UH an outpatient abortion clinic in Boulder, 556 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,839 Speaker 1: And I said, yes, I think that would be an 557 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: important thing to do, because I thought that that we 558 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: mean implementing the roll versus way decision, which wouldn't mean 559 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: anything unless doctors were doing abortions. Dr Warren Hern is 560 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: a physician and director of the Boulder Abortion Clinic in Boulder, Colorado. 561 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: He specializes in abortions that are harder to get, the 562 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 1: ones later in pregnancy. He's been doing this work for 563 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: more than fifty years. I thought I would do this 564 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: for a year or two then go back to school. 565 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: I helped start this clinic. I was the founding medical director. 566 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: I set up the clinic, I got the ments in 567 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: the equipment, I wrote the protocols, I devised the whole system, 568 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: and then I was performing all the abortions there. And 569 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: by the end of that first year, it was clear 570 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: to me that the performing abortions was the most important 571 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: thing that I could do in my medical career. Immediately, 572 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: I became the target of very vicious attacks by the 573 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: anti abortion people. I started getting obscene death threats in 574 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the night two weeks after we opened 575 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: the office. There was a lot of hostility among in 576 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: the medical community. There were some doctors who supported what 577 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: we were doing, but it was very tense and very difficult. 578 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: It became clear to me that the resistance of this 579 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: was really fanatic, but the anti abortion people were really frightening. 580 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: They were threatening me and other people, and I couldn't 581 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: understand why this was so controversial because we were helping women. 582 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,800 Speaker 1: There were five shots fir the front windows of my office. 583 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,760 Speaker 1: One of the bullets just missed a member of my staff. 584 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: I had just walked through the front room. I really expect, 585 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: have expected for all this time to be assassinated at 586 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 1: any time, So when I'm leaving my office, I checked 587 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: the perimeter to see if they're out there. I cannot 588 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: use the front door of my office when the anti 589 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: abortion people who are demonstrated are out there, because I 590 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: have to assume that they're armed and they will kill 591 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: me at the first opportunity. Five of my medical colleagues 592 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,719 Speaker 1: have been assassinated several at point blank range. I have 593 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 1: received letters from the anti abortion fanatics saying, don't bother 594 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: wearing a bullet proof vest. We're gonna go for a 595 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 1: head shot. And that's what they did to Dr Tiller. 596 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: One of the nation's most well known late term abortion doctors, 597 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: Dr George Tiller, was and killed in church yesterday on 598 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: me the thirty first, two thousand nine. Doctor George Tiller 599 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,359 Speaker 1: was was an usher for his Lutheran church in his 600 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: wife was singing in the choir. Dr Tiller was in 601 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: the foyer of the church. Uh Scott Rhodor walked up 602 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: to Dr Tiller and shot him in the head, assassinating him. 603 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: To the abortion providing community, Dr Tiller was a saint, 604 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean, and they literally referred to him as Saint George. 605 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: To the anti abortion community, he was this egregious murderer. 606 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: Once again, Carol Joffe. There's only a handful of clinics 607 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: in the United States where people can get later abortions 608 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: later here, meaning post twenty four weeks. Doctor Hearne for 609 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: many years, has been one of them. He's been targeted 610 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: for years. Dr Tiller in Wichita, who was a very 611 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: close friend of of Dr Hearne. He for years was targeted. 612 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: Um Bill O'Reilly when he had his Fox News show 613 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: repeatedly referred to him as Tiller the killer. Later that week, 614 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: the week that Dr Tiller was assassinated, I was invited 615 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: to speak at the Temple Manuel in Denver by the 616 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: rabbi and the head of the religious Coalition for Abortion Rights. 617 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: I was there taking there in an armored car by 618 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: the the US Federal Marshals. My family was not allowed 619 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,720 Speaker 1: to be with me. They got there by other means, 620 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: and there was a large group of people in the temple. 621 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 1: It was a very very emotional situation to talking about 622 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: my friend who had been assassinated. And and so we're 623 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,879 Speaker 1: surrounded by armed officers. And at one point our son 624 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: said to his mom, Mommy, are we the good ones? 625 00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 1: Are the bad ones? On several occasions when Dr Tyler 626 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,240 Speaker 1: was assassinated, I was put under the twenty four protection 627 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: of US Federal Morrison, who were heavily armed. And one 628 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: of the things they said, you may not sit with 629 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 1: your back to the window. So when I'm out with 630 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 1: friends or my family, you know I'm in a wresting, 631 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 1: I I don't sit with my back to window at home, 632 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: we will not leave the window shades up at night. 633 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,799 Speaker 1: We closed the window shades. Where else an American medicine 634 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,319 Speaker 1: would we tolerate. This very important concept for me in 635 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 1: my work on abortion and trying to understand it is 636 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: the idea of abortion exceptionalism and the idea that abortion 637 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,560 Speaker 1: is treated like no other aspect of of the health 638 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: care system in America. It's a common procedure. Uh Women 639 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: who have babies at different time in their lives have abortions, 640 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,320 Speaker 1: um Sometimes they have babies first and then an abortion. 641 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: Sometimes have an abortion and then have babies when they're 642 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: more ready to have children. A very common procedure. But 643 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,399 Speaker 1: where else do we see pickets? Do we see blockades? 644 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: Do we see shootings? Do we see regulation that that exists? No? 645 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: Nowhere else? I mean the state legislators over a thousand 646 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: restrictions passed over the years. I mean, just regulating in 647 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: ways that are inappropriate. I will never forget the young 648 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 1: woman who was a teenager in high school from northern 649 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: state and she looked at me said thank you for 650 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: giving me back my life. Well, you know, nothing takes 651 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,879 Speaker 1: the place of that another young woman. The first year 652 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: I was doing this told me how she felt. It 653 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,879 Speaker 1: makes me choke up every time I think about it, 654 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: and and she said, he's going ever stopped doing this, 655 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: So you know this, This moves me fifty years later, okay, 656 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: to think about it. So I think that it's very 657 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: important to concentrate on this human interaction, this human process 658 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: of one person helping another person. That's what the practice 659 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: of medicine is. To be an abortion doctor then and 660 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: now takes a particular type of person. We wanted to 661 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: learn more about the people going into this profession in 662 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: the midst of all this controversy. I think I was 663 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: attuned to the need to fight free to reproductive freedom 664 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: because I was born at home and home birth is 665 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,560 Speaker 1: also very controversial, so when I was born in Connecticut, 666 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't legal. So I feel like I came into 667 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: this world being like, Yeah, you need to fight for 668 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: your bodily autonomy and for your reproductive experience. I'm Caitlin 669 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: Gregory Davis, and I am a medical student at UVM 670 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,680 Speaker 1: Larner College of Medicine from a fourth year and I'm 671 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: going into O b G I N at Brown. So 672 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 1: I really always wanted to be a midwife. That was 673 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: what I wanted to do when I was younger, and 674 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,040 Speaker 1: so to get involved UM, I first became a duela UM, 675 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: which is, you know, a non medical labor and pregnancy 676 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: support person. I got trained with the DULA Project of 677 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: New York City, which is actually an organization that does 678 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,360 Speaker 1: birth dualer services, but it also does abortion dualer services, 679 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,240 Speaker 1: and I ended up absolutely loving my abortion dealer shifts UM. 680 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,400 Speaker 1: I would go into the Planned Parenthood and up in 681 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: the Bronx and also in Brooklyn UM and would just 682 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,280 Speaker 1: be with people through their abortion. And so from there 683 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,760 Speaker 1: I decided that I wanted to be an abortion provider UM, 684 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: which kind of steered me into a different path than 685 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,440 Speaker 1: midwif free UM in part just because you know, nurse 686 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: midwives can do abortions in some states, but it's a 687 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: little bit limited. And yeah, I didn't want to be 688 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,399 Speaker 1: limited by anything, and I knew that, like politically, things 689 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,080 Speaker 1: could always change, and so I felt like I needed 690 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 1: to get a degree that would be the most likely 691 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,359 Speaker 1: UM for these procedures to be accessible to me. So, 692 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: in terms of abortion training, I think there are a 693 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: lot of places, and especially now as laws are going 694 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,920 Speaker 1: to change, if a hospital is not able to do abortions, 695 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,600 Speaker 1: then like nobody can get trained, right, Like there needs 696 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,360 Speaker 1: to be the procedures in order to train the next generation. 697 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,840 Speaker 1: So if a hospital or a state UM decides that 698 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: it's illegal, then like no students in that state are 699 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 1: going to be able to get trained. I think it's 700 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: probably already happening. I know it's been a big issue 701 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: in Texas UM since SP eight, and that has had 702 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: a big effect on where I applied to residency UM. 703 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: So I was applying in this this past fall. UM. 704 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,320 Speaker 1: You know, sp A was under way, and I pretty 705 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 1: much did not apply or at least an't interview UM 706 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,400 Speaker 1: at any states where I felt like if Roe v. 707 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: Wade was overturned, abortion would become illegal. I came to 708 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,799 Speaker 1: medical school so that I could do this work. I 709 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,520 Speaker 1: didn't come to medical school to like be an m 710 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: D so that I could deliver babies all the time, 711 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:30,279 Speaker 1: although that's great UM, and so I have had the 712 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: thought like, oh my gosh, what if this becomes like 713 00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: entirely illegal, And then I went to medical school and 714 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: can't do the thing that I wanted to do UM 715 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,319 Speaker 1: and so that feels really kind of like an uncertain future. UM. 716 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: But it also just inspires me to do everything I 717 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,200 Speaker 1: can to keep this accessible and also to get all 718 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: the training that I can get. My name is Dr 719 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: Bob and Kumar use he him pronouns, and I'm a 720 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: family medicine physician working at Plant Parenthood, so I provide 721 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,280 Speaker 1: abortion care here. I'm also the medical director for Primary 722 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 1: and trans Care, so provide some primary care and gender 723 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: care as well. Um and I've been in Texas for 724 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 1: about seven years now. For me growing up in Corsicana, 725 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,239 Speaker 1: being we were undocumented at the time, and then being 726 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: you know, brown skinned, gay, and then experiencing UH in 727 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:30,839 Speaker 1: that town and the over racism and really recognizing what 728 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,720 Speaker 1: life is like for people like me compared to other people. 729 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: And then once I was in medical school, I was 730 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 1: pro choice, had no sense of, you know, wanting to 731 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: become an abortion provider, but then learned about how safe 732 00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,919 Speaker 1: it is, how common it is, how few providers there are, 733 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,239 Speaker 1: and what a drastic difference it makes. Recognize that there's 734 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 1: a concentration of abortion access among folks of color, that 735 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,560 Speaker 1: most people are low income or poor, and it just 736 00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,759 Speaker 1: was like, you know, of course, if I want to 737 00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: help people like me, even though I can never become pregnant, 738 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,800 Speaker 1: then the best thing I can do is the doctors 739 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: to provide abortion care. The abortion care that Dr Kumar 740 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: had wanted to provide has been severely restricted since September 741 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:20,359 Speaker 1: when Texas enacted Senate Bill eight, which effectively prohibits abortions 742 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,400 Speaker 1: after six weeks. So we went from providing care up 743 00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 1: to um twenty weeks of conception, which we were able 744 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: to see the vast majority of folks. Now with Senate 745 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: Bill eight, I would say we're seeing about a third 746 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 1: two a half of the patients that come into our 747 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,720 Speaker 1: clinics and providing an abortion for them, and the rest 748 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,640 Speaker 1: of the patients or folks that we're seeing where instead 749 00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,760 Speaker 1: helping them figure out how to get out of state 750 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,680 Speaker 1: so that means travel, um taking time off of work. 751 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: About sixty folks that access abortion in the country already 752 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:56,359 Speaker 1: had children at home. We're spending a lot of time 753 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,799 Speaker 1: navigating that. There is a lot of anxiety stress that 754 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: is new and different from what I've experienced in the 755 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 1: last seven years providing abortion care among people and also staff, 756 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: because I think for me and the staff that I 757 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: work with, we all show up to help people. They're pregnant, 758 00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,319 Speaker 1: they know that they can't be pregnant. We can make 759 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,359 Speaker 1: them feel better, we can help them with that. That's 760 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,719 Speaker 1: what our job is, and that's been taken away from us. 761 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: And now we're in crisis with our patients and they're 762 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: asking us, am I going to get there? What if 763 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,560 Speaker 1: the clinic closes, what if I don't make it, what 764 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: if my car doesn't make all of these questions, and 765 00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,560 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we can't help you when we feel 766 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 1: their stress. So it is I think even as I'm talking, 767 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: I'm feeling the stress of my neck was like, because 768 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,800 Speaker 1: it is every single day for the last eight months 769 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,919 Speaker 1: of seeing so many patients that we're not able to help, 770 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,200 Speaker 1: it is just very very heavy and traumatic, I think 771 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 1: for all of us. So last summer, my husband and 772 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,880 Speaker 1: I found out we were pregnant with our first child 773 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 1: um and after being cautiously optimistic through the first trimester, 774 00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:07,080 Speaker 1: doing a variety of testing and sonograms, we believe we're 775 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,839 Speaker 1: in the clear and began to share the news with 776 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 1: our friends and our family, and at around thirteen weeks 777 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,240 Speaker 1: we had a routine sonogram where the doctor suddenly saw 778 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: a thickened band behind the baby's neck, flagging us to 779 00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,959 Speaker 1: go get additional imaging by kind of assuring us that 780 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,359 Speaker 1: it was probably nothing to worry about. A week later, 781 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: the fetal medicine sonographer was able to get a clear 782 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,400 Speaker 1: picture and see a variety of health issues with our baby. 783 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: And following that sonogram, we went and sat in this 784 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: room and heard a group of doctors and geneticists explain 785 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: the findings and let us know that it was unlikely 786 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,360 Speaker 1: that our baby would survive past birth, and their recommendation 787 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,439 Speaker 1: was to do a CBS test that day to try 788 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,760 Speaker 1: to define what exactly it was which they were thinking 789 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,399 Speaker 1: was likely chromosomal, and unfortunately the results of this test 790 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,919 Speaker 1: can take weeks to get back. So we went home 791 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: that day knowing that our pregnancy likely would need to 792 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,359 Speaker 1: be terminated, but with no real clear answer on when 793 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,839 Speaker 1: we would know exactly what was causing the issue. So 794 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: over the next several days we deliberated over what to do. 795 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:26,560 Speaker 1: And with something like medical termination, the doctor cannot explicitly 796 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,400 Speaker 1: tell you what to do. But with nothing but the 797 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,960 Speaker 1: sonogram findings, that's all we really had to go off of. 798 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: And so you know, I spent a lot of time 799 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 1: talking about what our options were, and I just couldn't 800 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,920 Speaker 1: bear holding our baby for weeks as my belly began 801 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: to grow, knowing that it was only really a matter 802 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,840 Speaker 1: of time until we would have to end the pregnancy, 803 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: and so we ultimately decided to end the pregnancy with 804 00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: a DNA procedure, which is UM a surgery that it's 805 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,279 Speaker 1: done when you're in your second trimester, so it's a 806 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,400 Speaker 1: little bit more involved. And so as soon as we 807 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 1: made the decision, it quickly became very cut and dry, UM, 808 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: and it was it was pretty void of emotional support 809 00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: from that point on, and my doctor or the doctor 810 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,759 Speaker 1: who was performing the surgery actually had to meet with 811 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,920 Speaker 1: me UM to confirm that I understood what this decision 812 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: meant UM, and that this was something that I wanted 813 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,040 Speaker 1: to do UM, which you know, obviously this was the 814 00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,040 Speaker 1: furthest thing from what I wanted to do. I was 815 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: given medicine a few hours in advance of the surgery 816 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,400 Speaker 1: to begin the process, and as I drove to the 817 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,920 Speaker 1: hospital with my husband, I you know, started to experience 818 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:53,680 Speaker 1: tremendous physical pain as the process slowly was starting, and 819 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,080 Speaker 1: prior to the surgery, as I led in the hospital 820 00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,560 Speaker 1: bed waiting to be wheeled off. I was asked countless 821 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,560 Speaker 1: time what I was there for, forcing me to repeat 822 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,640 Speaker 1: over and over that I was there for d n 823 00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:10,960 Speaker 1: me to end my pregnancy. The physical emotional pain of 824 00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:15,120 Speaker 1: this day, these weeks, and the pain that I continue 825 00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:19,000 Speaker 1: to carry from this experience will stay with me forever, 826 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,200 Speaker 1: and they continue to have lasting impacts on so many 827 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: parts of my life. And so I just think that 828 00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,280 Speaker 1: until you've gone through something like this, you can't not 829 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:37,760 Speaker 1: imagine the trauma and sadness of these moments that I'm describing. UM. 830 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: And you know, this was such an isolating experience, UM 831 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 1: more than I ever imagined it would be. Yet the 832 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 1: more I speak about it, the more I realize how 833 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,760 Speaker 1: I'm not alone. UM. As I've shared my stories are 834 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,240 Speaker 1: looked for support. I have found people that have gone 835 00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 1: through what I've gone through and realized that while we 836 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 1: are a very small percentage UM, there is a community 837 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,400 Speaker 1: of us out there. I wanted, and I still want 838 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,000 Speaker 1: nothing more than to have a baby, and so terminating 839 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: this pregnancy was the hardest decision of my life, and 840 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,520 Speaker 1: it was not something I could have ever imagined or wanted. 841 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: And I feel thankful that I live in a city 842 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:29,280 Speaker 1: where I did have access to incredible health care that 843 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:34,160 Speaker 1: would allow me and only me, to ultimately make this 844 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:46,600 Speaker 1: decision abortion. The Body Politic is executive produced by me 845 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,040 Speaker 1: Katie Couric and was created by small team led by 846 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:56,640 Speaker 1: our intrepid supervising producer Lauren Hansen. Editing and sound designed 847 00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:01,240 Speaker 1: by Derrick Clements and Jessica Crime Chick, Production help from 848 00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:06,120 Speaker 1: Julia Weaver, researched by Nina Perlman, and a special thanks 849 00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,560 Speaker 1: to Case and producers Courtney Litz and Adriana Fasio