1 00:00:15,526 --> 00:00:15,926 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:22,876 --> 00:00:25,056 Speaker 2: When I was in college, which I feel compelled to 3 00:00:25,196 --> 00:00:28,116 Speaker 2: add does not feel that long ago, we were taught 4 00:00:28,156 --> 00:00:30,496 Speaker 2: that people were pretty much born with all the brain 5 00:00:30,536 --> 00:00:33,306 Speaker 2: cells they would ever have. Back then, it was assumed 6 00:00:33,326 --> 00:00:35,346 Speaker 2: that you start life with a certain number of neurons, 7 00:00:35,526 --> 00:00:38,206 Speaker 2: and that's pretty much it. The brain cells you were 8 00:00:38,246 --> 00:00:40,746 Speaker 2: born with get shaped as you develop, and neurons that 9 00:00:40,766 --> 00:00:43,746 Speaker 2: you don't use just die off. Under this old view, 10 00:00:44,166 --> 00:00:46,706 Speaker 2: once you reach adulthood, the architecture of your brain is 11 00:00:46,786 --> 00:00:50,126 Speaker 2: largely fixed. The door to your identity is locked, so 12 00:00:50,166 --> 00:00:53,236 Speaker 2: to speak. But just around the start of the current century, 13 00:00:53,606 --> 00:00:58,136 Speaker 2: scientists discovered something astounding. Our brains actually generate new cells 14 00:00:58,336 --> 00:01:01,436 Speaker 2: all the time. I was in graduate school when this 15 00:01:01,496 --> 00:01:04,436 Speaker 2: new research was coming out, and I can't emphasize enough 16 00:01:04,596 --> 00:01:07,436 Speaker 2: just how much of a neuroscientific game changer this was. 17 00:01:08,416 --> 00:01:10,696 Speaker 2: Many of the limitations we had placed on the adult 18 00:01:10,716 --> 00:01:14,096 Speaker 2: brain were simply out the window. brain development was just 19 00:01:14,196 --> 00:01:19,376 Speaker 2: way more dynamic than scientists originally realized. This remarkable capacity 20 00:01:19,416 --> 00:01:22,876 Speaker 2: for change is what scientists refer to as neuroplasticity. 21 00:01:23,876 --> 00:01:25,576 Speaker 3: One of the things that I often say is that 22 00:01:25,636 --> 00:01:29,626 Speaker 3: neuroplasticity happens wittingly or unwittingly. 23 00:01:30,126 --> 00:01:33,606 Speaker 2: This is University of Wisconsin-Madison neuroscientist Dr. 24 00:01:33,666 --> 00:01:34,526 Speaker 1: Richie Davidson. 25 00:01:35,346 --> 00:01:39,426 Speaker 3: And most of the time neuroplasticity happens unwittingly. Most of 26 00:01:39,486 --> 00:01:42,956 Speaker 3: the time we're thoroughly unaware. of the forces around us 27 00:01:43,016 --> 00:01:44,196 Speaker 3: that are shaping our brain. 28 00:01:44,656 --> 00:01:46,896 Speaker 2: Tell me about the London cab driver study, because I 29 00:01:46,936 --> 00:01:49,776 Speaker 2: think this one's just so telling of what experience can 30 00:01:49,796 --> 00:01:50,816 Speaker 2: do to shape the brain. 31 00:01:51,476 --> 00:01:54,496 Speaker 3: I mean, this was in the days before GPS. I 32 00:01:54,536 --> 00:01:58,786 Speaker 3: know for some viewers it's difficult to imagine, but there 33 00:01:58,816 --> 00:02:02,706 Speaker 3: was a time when we didn't have these maps on 34 00:02:02,766 --> 00:02:06,266 Speaker 3: our phones that enabled us to figure out where to go. 35 00:02:06,866 --> 00:02:09,366 Speaker 3: And for those of you who've been to London, it's 36 00:02:09,406 --> 00:02:14,326 Speaker 3: a complicated city. And cab drivers prior to GPS had 37 00:02:14,386 --> 00:02:19,586 Speaker 3: to learn the map of London to do their job. 38 00:02:20,086 --> 00:02:23,446 Speaker 3: And there was actually an exam that these drivers took. 39 00:02:24,186 --> 00:02:28,366 Speaker 3: And so there've been a number of famous studies in 40 00:02:28,406 --> 00:02:34,106 Speaker 3: this genre, but the first one demonstrated that cab drivers 41 00:02:34,286 --> 00:02:41,086 Speaker 3: in London who successfully completed their qualifying exam actually had 42 00:02:41,526 --> 00:02:46,756 Speaker 3: structural differences in their hippocampus. The hippocampus is an important 43 00:02:47,456 --> 00:02:52,176 Speaker 3: brain region for memory, for navigation, and the size of 44 00:02:52,196 --> 00:02:57,196 Speaker 3: their hippocampus was actually larger in certain regions. And so 45 00:02:57,436 --> 00:03:01,576 Speaker 3: this was a very powerful demonstration that the brain is 46 00:03:01,656 --> 00:03:05,146 Speaker 3: indeed plastic and showed this at the human level. You know, 47 00:03:05,166 --> 00:03:07,566 Speaker 3: it takes a long time to learn the streets of London, 48 00:03:07,606 --> 00:03:10,966 Speaker 3: but there have been studies of very short-term training. For example, 49 00:03:11,446 --> 00:03:15,566 Speaker 3: scientists have found structural differences in the brain due to 50 00:03:15,646 --> 00:03:19,406 Speaker 3: learning to juggle. And so this is just indicative that 51 00:03:19,726 --> 00:03:23,126 Speaker 3: the brain is highly sensitive to this kind of training 52 00:03:23,466 --> 00:03:27,666 Speaker 3: and will show physical signs of plasticity very quickly. 53 00:03:28,826 --> 00:03:31,026 Speaker 2: And so that's all great when we're learning to juggle 54 00:03:31,086 --> 00:03:33,126 Speaker 2: and learning, you know, the streets of London. It might 55 00:03:33,166 --> 00:03:36,106 Speaker 2: not be so great given all the negative training forces 56 00:03:36,166 --> 00:03:37,526 Speaker 2: that are around us all the time. 57 00:03:38,006 --> 00:03:42,276 Speaker 3: Right. I frequently say that we're all part of a 58 00:03:42,616 --> 00:03:45,636 Speaker 3: grand experiment for which none of us have provided our 59 00:03:45,696 --> 00:03:51,026 Speaker 3: informed consent. And that, of course, is exposure to the Internet, 60 00:03:51,086 --> 00:03:55,576 Speaker 3: exposure to social media. to media in general, and that 61 00:03:55,906 --> 00:04:00,476 Speaker 3: is very difficult to buffer ourselves from. We're barraged by 62 00:04:00,596 --> 00:04:04,076 Speaker 3: that kind of input, and that is really shaping our brain. 63 00:04:04,096 --> 00:04:08,496 Speaker 3: And so it's important to recognize that neuroplasticity is neutral 64 00:04:09,016 --> 00:04:13,616 Speaker 3: with respect to its potential impact. If we are exposed 65 00:04:13,716 --> 00:04:19,436 Speaker 3: to toxic influences, the presence of neuroplasticity will actually make 66 00:04:19,496 --> 00:04:22,846 Speaker 3: things worse because we're We're going to be shaping our 67 00:04:22,906 --> 00:04:26,676 Speaker 3: brains with all of this negative input. And this is 68 00:04:26,716 --> 00:04:31,316 Speaker 3: an invitation to take more responsibility for shaping our own 69 00:04:31,376 --> 00:04:35,576 Speaker 3: brains in ways that promote wholesome qualities. 70 00:04:36,666 --> 00:04:40,186 Speaker 2: Everything your brain encounters affects it. Tiny moments from your 71 00:04:40,266 --> 00:04:43,266 Speaker 2: everyday life will change your mind in the most literal sense. 72 00:04:43,966 --> 00:04:46,506 Speaker 2: So how can you take advantage of your brain's plastic 73 00:04:46,546 --> 00:04:49,706 Speaker 2: nature to become the person you want to be? Well, 74 00:04:49,826 --> 00:04:52,446 Speaker 2: Richie breaks all of this down in his incredible new book, 75 00:04:52,766 --> 00:04:56,986 Speaker 2: Born to Flourish, which he co-authored with fellow neuroscientist Cortland Dahl. 76 00:04:57,586 --> 00:04:59,566 Speaker 2: And in this episode of our Back to School series, 77 00:04:59,966 --> 00:05:02,586 Speaker 2: Richie will break down all the basic steps so that 78 00:05:02,626 --> 00:05:04,926 Speaker 2: we can learn how to harness our brain's capacity for 79 00:05:05,006 --> 00:05:09,096 Speaker 2: change and start shaping it for greater resilience, focus, and well-being. 80 00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:10,016 Speaker 3: Stay tuned. 81 00:05:13,536 --> 00:05:15,256 Speaker 2: Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to 82 00:05:15,296 --> 00:05:17,936 Speaker 2: be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What 83 00:05:17,956 --> 00:05:20,356 Speaker 2: if our minds are lying to us, leading us away 84 00:05:20,396 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 2: from what will really make us happy? The good news 85 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:25,176 Speaker 2: is that understanding the science of the mind can point 86 00:05:25,216 --> 00:05:26,776 Speaker 2: us all back in the right direction. 87 00:05:27,436 --> 00:05:30,616 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Happiness Lab with me, Dr. Laurie Santos. 88 00:05:36,636 --> 00:05:40,526 Speaker 3: I was extremely nervous. I was told to sit, to wait, 89 00:05:41,086 --> 00:05:44,346 Speaker 3: and I began to really just tremble. 90 00:05:44,776 --> 00:05:47,746 Speaker 2: In the early 1990s, Ritchie had an encounter that not 91 00:05:47,806 --> 00:05:50,706 Speaker 2: only changed his life, but also helped to reshape the 92 00:05:50,746 --> 00:05:52,746 Speaker 2: scientific study of well-being as a whole. 93 00:05:52,766 --> 00:05:56,086 Speaker 3: You know, I would regard myself as someone very average 94 00:05:56,226 --> 00:05:58,376 Speaker 3: in terms of anxiety, sort of in the middle of 95 00:05:58,416 --> 00:06:00,856 Speaker 3: the bell curve. But for the first time in my 96 00:06:00,916 --> 00:06:03,216 Speaker 3: life and the only time in my life, I nearly 97 00:06:03,256 --> 00:06:04,356 Speaker 3: had a panic attack. 98 00:06:04,636 --> 00:06:07,536 Speaker 2: You see, for the entirety of his career, Ritchie's work 99 00:06:07,576 --> 00:06:09,666 Speaker 2: has focused on one singular question. 100 00:06:10,206 --> 00:06:14,356 Speaker 3: Why is it that some people are more vulnerable to 101 00:06:14,556 --> 00:06:17,906 Speaker 3: life's slings and arrows, and why are others more resilient? 102 00:06:18,426 --> 00:06:20,466 Speaker 2: And his approach to that research looked a lot like 103 00:06:20,526 --> 00:06:22,326 Speaker 2: the cutting-edge neuroscience of the time. 104 00:06:22,346 --> 00:06:25,466 Speaker 3: I focused a lot on the adversity side of the 105 00:06:25,506 --> 00:06:30,606 Speaker 3: equation and studied the brain mechanisms that were associated with 106 00:06:30,646 --> 00:06:35,216 Speaker 3: vulnerability to anxiety and depression and stress-related disorders. 107 00:06:35,676 --> 00:06:38,856 Speaker 2: That is, until his research attracted the attention of someone 108 00:06:38,976 --> 00:06:39,856 Speaker 2: pretty unexpected. 109 00:06:41,486 --> 00:06:44,866 Speaker 3: Everything changed in 1992, which was when I first met 110 00:06:44,906 --> 00:06:45,746 Speaker 3: the Dalai Lama. 111 00:06:46,206 --> 00:06:46,646 Speaker 1: That's right. 112 00:06:46,846 --> 00:06:50,116 Speaker 2: The Dalai Lama, the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, had 113 00:06:50,156 --> 00:06:53,316 Speaker 2: heard of Richie's work and requested that they meet. And 114 00:06:53,356 --> 00:06:56,256 Speaker 2: Richie was, to put it lightly, a complete nervous wreck. 115 00:06:56,996 --> 00:06:59,696 Speaker 3: But then once I was with him in the first 116 00:06:59,696 --> 00:07:04,586 Speaker 3: 15 seconds of that encounter, all my anxiety was completely 117 00:07:04,646 --> 00:07:07,386 Speaker 3: dissipated and I felt very much at home. 118 00:07:08,116 --> 00:07:11,896 Speaker 2: Turns out the Dalai Lama, big neuroscience nerd. But he 119 00:07:11,936 --> 00:07:14,296 Speaker 2: had a question about what researchers at the time were 120 00:07:14,336 --> 00:07:15,096 Speaker 2: choosing to study. 121 00:07:15,536 --> 00:07:19,136 Speaker 3: He asked me very innocently, why can't we use the 122 00:07:19,176 --> 00:07:22,706 Speaker 3: same tools of modern science that we were using to 123 00:07:22,746 --> 00:07:26,866 Speaker 3: study depression and stress and anxiety and apply those tools 124 00:07:26,966 --> 00:07:30,726 Speaker 3: to the study of qualities like kindness and like compassion? 125 00:07:31,226 --> 00:07:36,846 Speaker 3: He was interested in encouraging research on meditation and the 126 00:07:37,146 --> 00:07:43,596 Speaker 3: qualities that were said to result from these practices. And 127 00:07:43,616 --> 00:07:46,616 Speaker 3: that was a wake-up call for me. You know, when 128 00:07:46,656 --> 00:07:49,296 Speaker 3: I went to school, I was trained to look at 129 00:07:49,356 --> 00:07:51,436 Speaker 3: people and try to figure out what's wrong with them. 130 00:07:51,456 --> 00:07:54,636 Speaker 3: And this was an invitation to look at people and 131 00:07:54,676 --> 00:07:58,596 Speaker 3: try to figure out what's right with them. Very different orientations. 132 00:07:59,206 --> 00:08:03,006 Speaker 2: That conversation set Richie on a new path, using cutting-edge 133 00:08:03,066 --> 00:08:06,946 Speaker 2: neuroscientific tools to study the effects of mindfulness and meditation 134 00:08:07,326 --> 00:08:09,786 Speaker 2: on the human brain. In your early work, you set 135 00:08:09,806 --> 00:08:12,466 Speaker 2: about to test this with the London cab drivers of 136 00:08:12,526 --> 00:08:16,396 Speaker 2: contemplative practice, the expert monk meditators. How did you get 137 00:08:16,456 --> 00:08:18,596 Speaker 2: connected with this population, and what did you notice when 138 00:08:18,616 --> 00:08:19,576 Speaker 2: you started to work with them? 139 00:08:20,556 --> 00:08:23,256 Speaker 3: Well, I got connected with this population really through the 140 00:08:23,316 --> 00:08:27,456 Speaker 3: Dalai Lama. He was really urging us to take this 141 00:08:27,496 --> 00:08:31,116 Speaker 3: seriously and to start this research. And he had the 142 00:08:31,276 --> 00:08:36,276 Speaker 3: early intuition, given that science was an important currency in 143 00:08:36,316 --> 00:08:40,986 Speaker 3: the West, that if we began to study this scientifically, 144 00:08:41,366 --> 00:08:45,166 Speaker 3: and if we found that it was beneficial from the 145 00:08:45,226 --> 00:08:49,426 Speaker 3: scientific findings, that would actually help people to take this 146 00:08:49,506 --> 00:08:53,686 Speaker 3: kind of practice more seriously. And at that meeting was 147 00:08:53,706 --> 00:08:58,136 Speaker 3: a French professor Buddhist monk by the name of Mathieu Ricard. 148 00:08:58,716 --> 00:09:03,376 Speaker 3: But Mathieu also has a PhD in molecular biology from 149 00:09:03,416 --> 00:09:07,466 Speaker 3: the Pasteur Institute, where he worked with François Jacob, the 150 00:09:07,526 --> 00:09:10,726 Speaker 3: Nobel laureate. And Mathieu raised his hand and said, I'll 151 00:09:10,746 --> 00:09:13,946 Speaker 3: be the first guinea pig. He had been meditating for 152 00:09:14,026 --> 00:09:20,286 Speaker 3: years in the Himalayan regions. He was our first long-term practitioner. 153 00:09:20,866 --> 00:09:25,526 Speaker 3: We began that study in 2001. And the very first 154 00:09:25,626 --> 00:09:30,026 Speaker 3: paper on that work was published in 2004. And if 155 00:09:30,086 --> 00:09:35,306 Speaker 3: you look at the number of neuroscientific publications on meditation, 156 00:09:35,346 --> 00:09:40,066 Speaker 3: you see an inflection point right around 2004 and 2005. 157 00:09:40,066 --> 00:09:42,626 Speaker 3: And at least in part, I would like to believe 158 00:09:42,686 --> 00:09:45,746 Speaker 3: that that early work that we did helped to stimulate 159 00:09:46,296 --> 00:09:49,056 Speaker 3: this field and showed that there was really a there there. 160 00:09:49,076 --> 00:09:51,696 Speaker 2: And so what did you find when you looked at 161 00:09:51,876 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 2: their brains? 162 00:09:53,376 --> 00:09:56,866 Speaker 3: Well, we looked with both brain electrical measures as well 163 00:09:56,896 --> 00:10:00,466 Speaker 3: as with MRI, and we found several things. First, with 164 00:10:00,546 --> 00:10:06,046 Speaker 3: the brain electrical activity, we saw very high amplitude gamma oscillations. 165 00:10:06,186 --> 00:10:10,756 Speaker 3: Gamma is a brain oscillation. that is seen in ordinary 166 00:10:10,816 --> 00:10:13,916 Speaker 3: people like you and I, but when it's seen in 167 00:10:13,976 --> 00:10:17,726 Speaker 3: ordinary people, it's typically seen for really brief periods of time, 168 00:10:18,206 --> 00:10:22,226 Speaker 3: typically less than one second. And it's seen during moments 169 00:10:22,346 --> 00:10:26,776 Speaker 3: of insight where you have a flash of a for example, 170 00:10:26,826 --> 00:10:30,506 Speaker 3: a solution to a problem. If you're doing a crossword 171 00:10:30,566 --> 00:10:35,026 Speaker 3: puzzle and you suddenly recognize the right word that fits 172 00:10:35,146 --> 00:10:39,486 Speaker 3: within a certain column or row, there's a moment of insight. 173 00:10:39,566 --> 00:10:42,766 Speaker 3: It's very brief. It's very fleeting. And in those moments, 174 00:10:42,826 --> 00:10:46,456 Speaker 3: you typically see this burst of gamma oscillations. What we 175 00:10:46,496 --> 00:10:50,876 Speaker 3: saw in these long-term meditators is gamma oscillations that were 176 00:10:51,396 --> 00:10:54,176 Speaker 3: present for very long periods of time. For the entire 177 00:10:54,236 --> 00:10:57,376 Speaker 3: duration of the meditation period, And in fact, we saw 178 00:10:57,616 --> 00:11:02,256 Speaker 3: that there was significantly higher prevalence of gamma during the 179 00:11:02,296 --> 00:11:04,496 Speaker 3: resting baseline when they weren't meditating. 180 00:11:05,596 --> 00:11:07,216 Speaker 2: So what does that mean? I mean, their brains are 181 00:11:07,236 --> 00:11:10,296 Speaker 2: completely different than what we're seeing in normals. How did 182 00:11:10,316 --> 00:11:11,036 Speaker 2: you interpret that? 183 00:11:11,716 --> 00:11:14,326 Speaker 3: Well, it was exciting to us because we saw that 184 00:11:14,386 --> 00:11:18,606 Speaker 3: there were indeed these dramatic differences. In many cases, we 185 00:11:18,666 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 3: found associations between their lifetime duration of practice and the 186 00:11:25,756 --> 00:11:30,636 Speaker 3: magnitude of effect in these different brain metrics. And by 187 00:11:30,676 --> 00:11:34,396 Speaker 3: the way, for this first study with long-term practitioners, the 188 00:11:34,556 --> 00:11:39,536 Speaker 3: average lifetime hours of practice in this group was 34,000 hours. 189 00:11:40,036 --> 00:11:42,516 Speaker 3: And viewers can go do the arithmetic at home, but 190 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:46,466 Speaker 3: 34,000 hours is a huge number. They spent a lot 191 00:11:46,496 --> 00:11:48,346 Speaker 3: of time in formal meditations. 192 00:11:49,706 --> 00:11:52,046 Speaker 2: So if you're a Buddhist monk and an expert meditator, 193 00:11:52,316 --> 00:11:54,296 Speaker 2: this sort of practice can change your brain in a 194 00:11:54,336 --> 00:11:57,196 Speaker 2: way that gives you an extended state of insight. But 195 00:11:57,396 --> 00:11:59,236 Speaker 2: what about the rest of us who don't have 34,000 196 00:11:59,236 --> 00:12:02,786 Speaker 2: hours to devote to this sort of thing? Those of 197 00:12:02,846 --> 00:12:05,046 Speaker 2: us who spend most of our days amidst the chaos 198 00:12:05,086 --> 00:12:07,746 Speaker 2: of work life and home life, rather than the Zen 199 00:12:07,766 --> 00:12:11,586 Speaker 2: life of a monastery. That's the focus of Richie's new book, 200 00:12:11,846 --> 00:12:14,846 Speaker 2: Born to Flourish, which explores what it really takes for 201 00:12:14,986 --> 00:12:18,216 Speaker 2: everyday people to rewrite their brains in order to thrive 202 00:12:18,336 --> 00:12:21,936 Speaker 2: in the midst of life's challenges. We'll explore what Richie's 203 00:12:21,956 --> 00:12:25,076 Speaker 2: book says when the Happiness Lab returns from this quick break. 204 00:12:33,456 --> 00:12:35,856 Speaker 2: The book is really all about this idea of flourishing. 205 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:37,656 Speaker 2: I'm curious how you define flourishing. 206 00:12:38,406 --> 00:12:44,366 Speaker 3: Flourishing, the way we define it, is having four key qualities. 207 00:12:45,146 --> 00:12:50,446 Speaker 3: One is being fully present. The second is being totally connected, 208 00:12:50,666 --> 00:12:54,386 Speaker 3: connected to others and to one sense of place. The 209 00:12:54,546 --> 00:13:00,546 Speaker 3: third is having a deep understanding of how our thoughts 210 00:13:00,736 --> 00:13:05,156 Speaker 3: and beliefs and expectations shape our experience of the world. 211 00:13:05,966 --> 00:13:09,866 Speaker 3: And the fourth is having a sense of purpose, really 212 00:13:09,906 --> 00:13:14,786 Speaker 3: being motivated. And when all four are operating, that's when 213 00:13:14,826 --> 00:13:19,316 Speaker 3: we're flourishing. And so flourishing is not happiness. And I 214 00:13:19,356 --> 00:13:22,756 Speaker 3: think it's important to say on this podcast, because we 215 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:28,256 Speaker 3: can flourish when we're sad. There's a story told in 216 00:13:28,296 --> 00:13:30,416 Speaker 3: the book about a very dear friend of mine, a 217 00:13:30,636 --> 00:13:34,986 Speaker 3: very famous sociologist who was dying recently. I was with 218 00:13:35,026 --> 00:13:38,436 Speaker 3: him the day before he was dying and he wasn't happy, 219 00:13:38,596 --> 00:13:39,596 Speaker 3: but he was flourishing. 220 00:13:39,616 --> 00:13:42,436 Speaker 2: We're also starting to see that we can build some 221 00:13:42,456 --> 00:13:45,416 Speaker 2: of these skills with way less hours a day. Give 222 00:13:45,456 --> 00:13:46,996 Speaker 2: me an example of what some of the research is 223 00:13:47,016 --> 00:13:49,396 Speaker 2: showing for these shorter term contemplative practices. 224 00:13:50,196 --> 00:13:53,226 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's one of the things that we talk 225 00:13:53,266 --> 00:13:55,706 Speaker 3: a lot about in this new book and what is 226 00:13:55,766 --> 00:14:00,246 Speaker 3: so exciting to us. So one of my passions these days, 227 00:14:00,346 --> 00:14:03,696 Speaker 3: in fact, it's really my central passion is to figure 228 00:14:03,776 --> 00:14:07,216 Speaker 3: out how to scale human flourishing. I think most viewers 229 00:14:07,256 --> 00:14:11,236 Speaker 3: would agree that the world is really in desperate need 230 00:14:11,456 --> 00:14:16,786 Speaker 3: of increased flourishing and the skills that we associate with flourishing. 231 00:14:17,486 --> 00:14:22,266 Speaker 3: And so how can we increase these qualities, even among 232 00:14:22,326 --> 00:14:24,906 Speaker 3: people who are never going to spend a lot of 233 00:14:24,946 --> 00:14:30,176 Speaker 3: time meditating? Ordinary people who are totally stressed in their work. 234 00:14:30,396 --> 00:14:34,276 Speaker 3: And one of the groups that we've explored are school teachers, 235 00:14:34,816 --> 00:14:39,816 Speaker 3: public school teachers who are reporting very high levels of stress. 236 00:14:39,856 --> 00:14:44,096 Speaker 3: They're abandoning the profession at higher rates than people are 237 00:14:44,236 --> 00:14:47,956 Speaker 3: entering it. It's really a crisis in the U.S. right now. 238 00:14:48,136 --> 00:14:50,416 Speaker 3: And so that's one group we've worked with. And we 239 00:14:50,496 --> 00:14:54,776 Speaker 3: have deployed digital strategies so that we can really scale 240 00:14:54,816 --> 00:14:58,266 Speaker 3: this And one of the things we found when we 241 00:14:58,346 --> 00:15:03,146 Speaker 3: did this, which initially was incredibly disappointing to us, is 242 00:15:03,186 --> 00:15:06,436 Speaker 3: we found that they were practicing around five minutes a day. 243 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:09,956 Speaker 3: We wanted them to practice more. We offered them the 244 00:15:10,016 --> 00:15:13,916 Speaker 3: opportunity to practice more, but on average, they were practicing less. 245 00:15:14,286 --> 00:15:17,846 Speaker 3: about five minutes a day. And then we actually looked 246 00:15:17,906 --> 00:15:20,786 Speaker 3: at the data to see if this made any difference. 247 00:15:21,186 --> 00:15:23,106 Speaker 3: And it turns out if you do it every day, 248 00:15:23,646 --> 00:15:28,026 Speaker 3: five minutes a day actually produces real change. It produces 249 00:15:28,126 --> 00:15:32,116 Speaker 3: change in our experience and it even produces change in 250 00:15:32,176 --> 00:15:38,216 Speaker 3: our biology. And so one of the important messages here 251 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:41,556 Speaker 3: is that consistency is really important. 252 00:15:42,216 --> 00:15:45,216 Speaker 2: So you defined flourishing for us earlier with having these 253 00:15:45,276 --> 00:15:46,976 Speaker 2: four pillars. And so now I want to kind of 254 00:15:47,036 --> 00:15:49,436 Speaker 2: dive into each of the pillars, first starting with this 255 00:15:49,496 --> 00:15:51,956 Speaker 2: idea of awareness. How do you define awareness? 256 00:15:53,176 --> 00:15:59,236 Speaker 3: Awareness is the faculty of knowing, being fully present. And 257 00:15:59,316 --> 00:16:04,076 Speaker 3: there are different components of awareness. One component is self-awareness. 258 00:16:04,136 --> 00:16:08,736 Speaker 3: So that would be awareness of sensations in our body, 259 00:16:09,196 --> 00:16:14,166 Speaker 3: awareness of our thoughts and emotions, in our mind, and 260 00:16:14,386 --> 00:16:17,956 Speaker 3: it really is the sense of being present. And I 261 00:16:18,036 --> 00:16:22,096 Speaker 3: think all of us have experience, particularly with its opposite. 262 00:16:22,416 --> 00:16:25,856 Speaker 3: How many listeners have had the experience of reading a 263 00:16:25,936 --> 00:16:28,756 Speaker 3: book where they might be reading each word on the page, 264 00:16:28,796 --> 00:16:30,956 Speaker 3: and after a few minutes, they have no idea what 265 00:16:30,976 --> 00:16:34,576 Speaker 3: they've just read. Their mind is somewhere else. That's an 266 00:16:34,656 --> 00:16:39,146 Speaker 3: experience of not knowing what our mind is doing. And meta-awareness, 267 00:16:39,186 --> 00:16:43,016 Speaker 3: which is knowing that we're knowing, is really important. If 268 00:16:43,056 --> 00:16:45,856 Speaker 3: we don't know what's happening in our own mind, it's 269 00:16:45,896 --> 00:16:49,736 Speaker 3: very difficult to change it. So this is really a 270 00:16:49,876 --> 00:16:55,706 Speaker 3: quality that we think is necessary for all other forms 271 00:16:55,766 --> 00:17:00,126 Speaker 3: of human transformation. And if there's one thing we've learned 272 00:17:00,166 --> 00:17:03,686 Speaker 3: from the scientific literature on meditation, it's that this is 273 00:17:03,746 --> 00:17:06,056 Speaker 3: something that really can be strengthened. 274 00:17:06,566 --> 00:17:08,166 Speaker 2: One of the things I was struck by is when 275 00:17:08,206 --> 00:17:11,496 Speaker 2: what we're aware of is something that's pretty bad. For example, 276 00:17:11,546 --> 00:17:14,296 Speaker 2: like our own experience of bodily pain. What did you 277 00:17:14,356 --> 00:17:17,396 Speaker 2: find when people were experiencing pain but attending to that 278 00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:18,516 Speaker 2: pain using awareness? 279 00:17:19,596 --> 00:17:22,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is really one of the areas where there's, 280 00:17:23,096 --> 00:17:28,056 Speaker 3: I think, real practical import of these practices and clinical relevance. 281 00:17:28,576 --> 00:17:33,786 Speaker 3: We've studied pain extensively in the scanner field. And what 282 00:17:33,826 --> 00:17:38,286 Speaker 3: we find is this. When a person is experiencing pain, 283 00:17:38,866 --> 00:17:42,086 Speaker 3: there's a network in the brain that's activated directly by 284 00:17:42,126 --> 00:17:46,776 Speaker 3: the pain itself. But then we also have emotional reactions 285 00:17:46,836 --> 00:17:47,396 Speaker 3: to the pain. 286 00:17:47,536 --> 00:17:47,716 Speaker 4: Yeah. 287 00:17:47,816 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 1: We're thinking, this sucks. I can't handle this. I want 288 00:17:50,056 --> 00:17:51,876 Speaker 1: this to stop. I hate this. I hate this. 289 00:17:52,516 --> 00:17:58,676 Speaker 3: Exactly. And that secondary emotional reaction, which is associated with 290 00:17:58,716 --> 00:18:01,936 Speaker 3: a very distinct brain network, This is something that's been 291 00:18:01,996 --> 00:18:07,536 Speaker 3: studied extensively by neuroscientists. We found that that network in 292 00:18:07,596 --> 00:18:13,746 Speaker 3: particular can be altered by training in these simple awareness 293 00:18:13,806 --> 00:18:19,246 Speaker 3: meditation practices. And when you decrease the activation in that 294 00:18:19,366 --> 00:18:26,236 Speaker 3: emotion-related network, you significantly decrease the distress involved. that we 295 00:18:26,316 --> 00:18:30,316 Speaker 3: experience in response to physical pain. We still know that 296 00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:34,426 Speaker 3: there's something painful happening, but it just doesn't bother us 297 00:18:34,516 --> 00:18:37,466 Speaker 3: as much. And we're able to cope with it much 298 00:18:37,526 --> 00:18:38,326 Speaker 3: more effectively. 299 00:18:38,346 --> 00:18:41,826 Speaker 2: I mean, this seems to be this interesting paradox of awareness, right? 300 00:18:41,866 --> 00:18:45,326 Speaker 2: Which is this idea that challenging situations become less challenging 301 00:18:45,926 --> 00:18:47,946 Speaker 2: when we sit with them, when we're aware of them, 302 00:18:48,006 --> 00:18:50,386 Speaker 2: when we're present in the horrible experience. That seems to 303 00:18:50,426 --> 00:18:52,586 Speaker 2: be a very strange thing about brains, but a really 304 00:18:52,636 --> 00:18:55,236 Speaker 2: powerful thing that contemplative practices can help us with. 305 00:18:56,126 --> 00:19:00,496 Speaker 3: That's absolutely true. There's a lot of emotional energy, if 306 00:19:00,536 --> 00:19:05,206 Speaker 3: you will, that's put into pushing these negative experiences away. 307 00:19:05,746 --> 00:19:09,286 Speaker 3: And that turns out to be a significant source of distress. 308 00:19:09,986 --> 00:19:13,676 Speaker 3: And so when we're able to accept them, when we're 309 00:19:13,736 --> 00:19:16,416 Speaker 3: able to look at them for what they are, it 310 00:19:16,476 --> 00:19:21,476 Speaker 3: turns out that they're much more porous. And that really 311 00:19:21,776 --> 00:19:24,776 Speaker 3: is extremely helpful. For example, is there any part of 312 00:19:24,836 --> 00:19:27,526 Speaker 3: me that's not in pain? Any little morsel of me? 313 00:19:28,006 --> 00:19:30,166 Speaker 3: Is there any place in my body that I can 314 00:19:30,666 --> 00:19:34,806 Speaker 3: become aware of that's not experiencing pain? And that kind 315 00:19:34,946 --> 00:19:38,996 Speaker 3: of opening really is helpful. in allowing us to sit 316 00:19:39,056 --> 00:19:42,416 Speaker 3: with it and see its differentiated nature. 317 00:19:43,376 --> 00:19:46,746 Speaker 2: We can also engage in these awareness practices formally, like 318 00:19:46,766 --> 00:19:48,726 Speaker 2: kind of sitting down to do meditation. But you in 319 00:19:48,766 --> 00:19:50,966 Speaker 2: the book talk about all these times when you engage 320 00:19:51,006 --> 00:19:53,926 Speaker 2: in awareness practices in your own life during these almost informal, 321 00:19:53,966 --> 00:19:56,666 Speaker 2: maybe more mundane ways. Tell me some examples where you've 322 00:19:56,686 --> 00:19:59,086 Speaker 2: tried to become more aware in your own life. 323 00:19:59,936 --> 00:20:00,976 Speaker 3: I'm doing it right now. 324 00:20:00,996 --> 00:20:04,356 Speaker 1: I could tell you're very chill. 325 00:20:04,396 --> 00:20:07,856 Speaker 3: You can do it anywhere, anytime. Or another way to 326 00:20:07,876 --> 00:20:09,996 Speaker 3: say it is you can do it everywhere all the time. 327 00:20:10,596 --> 00:20:14,216 Speaker 3: It's really a matter of how we intentionally deploy our mind. 328 00:20:14,276 --> 00:20:17,616 Speaker 3: And in fact, one of the really cool things is 329 00:20:17,856 --> 00:20:21,266 Speaker 3: in this app that we have developed called the Healthy 330 00:20:21,326 --> 00:20:25,156 Speaker 3: Minds Program. We give people the option of doing these 331 00:20:25,256 --> 00:20:30,976 Speaker 3: practices as formal meditation practices or doing it actively while 332 00:20:31,016 --> 00:20:35,106 Speaker 3: you're engaged in other activities of daily living. For example, 333 00:20:35,186 --> 00:20:41,046 Speaker 3: commuting or doing your laundry, washing the dishes, doing physical exercise. 334 00:20:41,546 --> 00:20:44,416 Speaker 3: We actually have collected data on this and it turns 335 00:20:44,656 --> 00:20:49,746 Speaker 3: out that the benefit of these practices is equal. There's 336 00:20:49,806 --> 00:20:53,086 Speaker 3: no significant difference in the benefit when it's done as 337 00:20:53,146 --> 00:20:57,466 Speaker 3: a formal meditation or as an active practice as you're 338 00:20:57,506 --> 00:21:01,886 Speaker 3: engaged in other activities of daily living. So that's really 339 00:21:01,966 --> 00:21:05,366 Speaker 3: great news. And we can honestly say you don't have 340 00:21:05,406 --> 00:21:08,006 Speaker 3: to take any extra time out of your day. You 341 00:21:08,066 --> 00:21:10,006 Speaker 3: can do it as you're doing other things. 342 00:21:10,916 --> 00:21:12,876 Speaker 2: I love this finding because often when I talk to 343 00:21:12,896 --> 00:21:15,356 Speaker 2: people about the benefits of meditation, I'm thinking specifically of 344 00:21:15,396 --> 00:21:16,116 Speaker 2: my Yale students. 345 00:21:16,656 --> 00:21:18,236 Speaker 1: They'll kind of sigh and be like, oh my gosh, 346 00:21:18,256 --> 00:21:19,256 Speaker 1: I have so much on my plate. 347 00:21:19,276 --> 00:21:21,016 Speaker 2: I don't have another 20 minutes a day that I'm 348 00:21:21,036 --> 00:21:22,936 Speaker 2: going to not sleep or not do my homework to 349 00:21:22,956 --> 00:21:26,076 Speaker 2: do meditation. But it's like, wait, you can meditate while 350 00:21:26,096 --> 00:21:27,776 Speaker 2: you're doing your homework or you can engage in an 351 00:21:27,816 --> 00:21:30,116 Speaker 2: awareness practice when you're doing your homework. You can engage 352 00:21:30,156 --> 00:21:32,426 Speaker 2: in an awareness practice when you're doing your laundry, walking 353 00:21:32,446 --> 00:21:34,426 Speaker 2: to class and so on. And so I think that's 354 00:21:34,446 --> 00:21:37,186 Speaker 2: really freeing because sometimes when people hear about these practices, 355 00:21:37,206 --> 00:21:39,466 Speaker 2: I think we mistakenly assume that we have to go 356 00:21:39,986 --> 00:21:41,726 Speaker 2: hardcore monk style to engage in them. 357 00:21:42,246 --> 00:21:43,226 Speaker 3: Right, not at all. 358 00:21:44,286 --> 00:21:46,056 Speaker 2: I want to emphasize this point because I find it 359 00:21:46,196 --> 00:21:48,936 Speaker 2: so powerful. You don't have to do any sort of 360 00:21:49,016 --> 00:21:51,996 Speaker 2: formal meditation in order to experience the benefits of an 361 00:21:52,036 --> 00:21:55,516 Speaker 2: awareness practice. You can get similar results by just being 362 00:21:55,556 --> 00:21:58,386 Speaker 2: a little more mindful when you're running errands or doing 363 00:21:58,406 --> 00:22:02,226 Speaker 2: your housework. Instead of doing your chores on autopilot, try 364 00:22:02,246 --> 00:22:05,086 Speaker 2: to consciously pay attention to the sounds around you and 365 00:22:05,106 --> 00:22:08,846 Speaker 2: the feelings in your body. Regularly shifting your attention during 366 00:22:08,876 --> 00:22:11,396 Speaker 2: these everyday moments can help you train your brain to 367 00:22:11,436 --> 00:22:15,616 Speaker 2: better manage thoughts and emotions when bigger challenges arise. Okay, 368 00:22:15,776 --> 00:22:19,196 Speaker 2: so that's awareness, Richie's first pillar of flourishing. But we 369 00:22:19,236 --> 00:22:22,056 Speaker 2: still have three more to go. We'll tackle those when 370 00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:33,466 Speaker 2: the Happiness Lab returns from the break. I'm speaking with 371 00:22:33,526 --> 00:22:37,486 Speaker 2: neuroscientist Dr. Richie Davidson about his new book, Born to Flourish, 372 00:22:37,906 --> 00:22:41,426 Speaker 2: which explores four foundational skills that humans need to thrive. 373 00:22:41,886 --> 00:22:44,186 Speaker 2: Before the break, Richie and I touched on the practice 374 00:22:44,226 --> 00:22:47,266 Speaker 2: of awareness. But the second pillar he and his co-authors 375 00:22:47,346 --> 00:22:51,046 Speaker 2: emphasize is connection. I asked Richie to define this idea 376 00:22:51,106 --> 00:22:53,496 Speaker 2: for me, since connection is something we hear about a 377 00:22:53,546 --> 00:22:56,976 Speaker 2: lot these days, especially in light of the loneliness epidemic. 378 00:22:57,516 --> 00:23:00,696 Speaker 3: It's really a sense of being connected to others. It's 379 00:23:00,756 --> 00:23:06,796 Speaker 3: not the physical presence of others necessarily. It's really about 380 00:23:06,896 --> 00:23:11,466 Speaker 3: qualities that are important for healthy social relationships, qualities like 381 00:23:11,546 --> 00:23:17,486 Speaker 3: appreciation and gratitude and kindness and compassion. It's a subjective 382 00:23:17,586 --> 00:23:20,926 Speaker 3: sense and it doesn't necessarily require that we have this 383 00:23:21,006 --> 00:23:24,826 Speaker 3: large circle of friends. And one of the ways that 384 00:23:24,926 --> 00:23:29,106 Speaker 3: we find it very accessible is to reflect on appreciation. 385 00:23:29,166 --> 00:23:31,046 Speaker 3: Think of a person in your life who has been 386 00:23:31,086 --> 00:23:35,496 Speaker 3: helpful to you in whatever way, and just allow this 387 00:23:35,576 --> 00:23:40,256 Speaker 3: natural sense of appreciation to arise. And that's something that 388 00:23:40,316 --> 00:23:45,726 Speaker 3: you also can do anywhere, anytime. And it really changes 389 00:23:45,736 --> 00:23:48,146 Speaker 3: the coloring of how you see the world. 390 00:23:49,016 --> 00:23:51,516 Speaker 2: You talked about a practice that you do before a 391 00:23:51,556 --> 00:23:54,196 Speaker 2: particularly busy day. As someone who has busy days a lot, 392 00:23:54,216 --> 00:23:56,336 Speaker 2: this is something that I could resonate with, where you 393 00:23:56,476 --> 00:23:58,736 Speaker 2: use the power of connection to get more grounded and 394 00:23:58,856 --> 00:24:01,296 Speaker 2: feel more appreciative of the people who are making up 395 00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:03,266 Speaker 2: your busy day. Tell me more about what you did there. 396 00:24:04,186 --> 00:24:07,826 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I meditate every morning. And after I meditate 397 00:24:08,226 --> 00:24:11,336 Speaker 3: on weekdays, I... Take out my calendar. I did it 398 00:24:11,396 --> 00:24:14,516 Speaker 3: this morning and you were in my practice, Laurie. And 399 00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:17,806 Speaker 3: I just, it takes me about 60 seconds. I just 400 00:24:17,866 --> 00:24:22,586 Speaker 3: scan my day, see what meetings I have. And I 401 00:24:22,726 --> 00:24:25,666 Speaker 3: bring the people I'm going to be meeting with into 402 00:24:25,726 --> 00:24:29,446 Speaker 3: my mind and my heart. And I just reflect on 403 00:24:29,786 --> 00:24:33,026 Speaker 3: something positive about them, even if I don't know them. 404 00:24:33,766 --> 00:24:37,106 Speaker 3: And it doesn't take much. And it really just helps 405 00:24:37,206 --> 00:24:41,166 Speaker 3: me develop this kind of vitality. for the day. And 406 00:24:41,326 --> 00:24:43,346 Speaker 3: I can have a day where I have 10 hours 407 00:24:43,376 --> 00:24:46,276 Speaker 3: of back-to-back meetings and come out the other side and 408 00:24:46,336 --> 00:24:51,296 Speaker 3: feel totally refreshed. I really attribute at least in part 409 00:24:51,776 --> 00:24:53,996 Speaker 3: the vitality to this simple practice. 410 00:24:54,956 --> 00:24:56,716 Speaker 2: And this was the kind of thing that you tested 411 00:24:56,896 --> 00:25:00,796 Speaker 2: in teachers during a really difficult time during the COVID-19 pandemic. 412 00:25:00,836 --> 00:25:03,456 Speaker 2: What kinds of benefits from these types of connection practices 413 00:25:03,496 --> 00:25:04,706 Speaker 2: did you find with your teachers? 414 00:25:05,996 --> 00:25:08,536 Speaker 3: So we've been doing a bunch of work with public 415 00:25:08,596 --> 00:25:12,096 Speaker 3: school teachers in the U.S., as well as in other countries, 416 00:25:12,176 --> 00:25:17,626 Speaker 3: but primarily in the U.S. And we found that these practices, 417 00:25:17,856 --> 00:25:21,346 Speaker 3: and again, on average, about five minutes a day, are 418 00:25:21,786 --> 00:25:26,746 Speaker 3: just enormously beneficial. If a teacher shows up in his 419 00:25:26,806 --> 00:25:30,756 Speaker 3: or her classroom and is really present and is connected 420 00:25:30,836 --> 00:25:31,496 Speaker 3: to the kids. 421 00:25:32,226 --> 00:25:33,666 Speaker 1: this really. 422 00:25:33,526 --> 00:25:37,126 Speaker 3: Can be so powerful. And one of the things that 423 00:25:37,166 --> 00:25:42,466 Speaker 3: we found that we attribute to connection practices in particular 424 00:25:43,026 --> 00:25:49,026 Speaker 3: is we found reductions in measures of implicit bias, implicit 425 00:25:49,086 --> 00:25:52,536 Speaker 3: racial bias. And we found that teachers who are randomly 426 00:25:52,596 --> 00:25:57,276 Speaker 3: assigned to a group that received this training showed significant 427 00:25:57,336 --> 00:26:01,316 Speaker 3: reductions on this behavioral measure of implicit bias And that 428 00:26:01,376 --> 00:26:05,676 Speaker 3: reduction in bias persisted at the six-month follow-up period. And 429 00:26:05,776 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 3: so there are real consequences to doing this that we 430 00:26:09,076 --> 00:26:11,366 Speaker 3: think are enormously beneficial. 431 00:26:12,826 --> 00:26:15,226 Speaker 2: And so that's the connection practice. Now I want to 432 00:26:15,266 --> 00:26:18,026 Speaker 2: jump to insight, starting with an interesting thing about the 433 00:26:18,066 --> 00:26:21,506 Speaker 2: human mind, which is that we constantly get caught up 434 00:26:21,806 --> 00:26:24,516 Speaker 2: in our own narratives. Give me a sense of what 435 00:26:24,536 --> 00:26:26,596 Speaker 2: it looks like to be kind of stuck with a 436 00:26:26,636 --> 00:26:28,916 Speaker 2: lack of insight, stuck with our own inner narratives. 437 00:26:29,886 --> 00:26:35,246 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, insight is having a deep understanding of 438 00:26:35,366 --> 00:26:41,006 Speaker 3: how our thoughts and beliefs and expectations shape our experience 439 00:26:41,046 --> 00:26:46,266 Speaker 3: of the world. There are folks who have very negative narratives. 440 00:26:46,436 --> 00:26:51,436 Speaker 3: They have low expectations of themselves. They may have negative 441 00:26:51,516 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 3: beliefs about themselves. And of course, that is a prescription 442 00:26:55,596 --> 00:27:00,046 Speaker 3: for depressions. And what's really important for well-being, we think, 443 00:27:00,196 --> 00:27:03,396 Speaker 3: is not so much changing the narrative, at least initially, 444 00:27:03,856 --> 00:27:07,056 Speaker 3: but it's changing our relationship to the narrative so that 445 00:27:07,096 --> 00:27:09,336 Speaker 3: we see the narrative for what it is, which is 446 00:27:09,436 --> 00:27:15,236 Speaker 3: simply a constellation of beliefs and thoughts and expectations. And 447 00:27:15,396 --> 00:27:18,436 Speaker 3: if we can see that, it gives us some distance 448 00:27:19,116 --> 00:27:22,586 Speaker 3: from them. It really helps for us not to be 449 00:27:22,666 --> 00:27:28,086 Speaker 3: completely fused with these beliefs and expectations. Many people are 450 00:27:28,126 --> 00:27:30,986 Speaker 3: not even aware that they have a narrative, let alone 451 00:27:31,626 --> 00:27:35,126 Speaker 3: what the narrative might be. They just operate so automatically. 452 00:27:35,666 --> 00:27:38,916 Speaker 3: One simple practice that we do to help people become 453 00:27:38,976 --> 00:27:41,896 Speaker 3: aware of this is if you're having some challenge in 454 00:27:41,936 --> 00:27:46,076 Speaker 3: your life, just imagine what another person who comes from 455 00:27:46,116 --> 00:27:50,786 Speaker 3: a different perspective, how they might view the situation to 456 00:27:50,866 --> 00:27:53,156 Speaker 3: see if they might view it any differently than you. 457 00:27:54,046 --> 00:27:57,106 Speaker 3: And that can really help loosen the grip of this 458 00:27:57,186 --> 00:27:58,066 Speaker 3: kind of narrative. 459 00:27:58,986 --> 00:28:00,666 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it seems like this idea that you're 460 00:28:00,686 --> 00:28:02,846 Speaker 2: talking about with insight, it's really just all about getting 461 00:28:02,906 --> 00:28:05,806 Speaker 2: curious about our inner narrative and just bringing that curiosity 462 00:28:05,846 --> 00:28:07,346 Speaker 2: seems to have a whole host of benefits. 463 00:28:08,066 --> 00:28:13,606 Speaker 3: Exactly. Curiosity is really key. And activating that curiosity to 464 00:28:14,196 --> 00:28:19,496 Speaker 3: really try to work with your own mind is extremely helpful. 465 00:28:20,316 --> 00:28:21,856 Speaker 2: Another thing we do when we loosen the grip of 466 00:28:21,896 --> 00:28:23,756 Speaker 2: the narrative, as you talk about in your book, is 467 00:28:23,796 --> 00:28:26,056 Speaker 2: that we can start to use the bad stuff, maybe 468 00:28:26,096 --> 00:28:27,726 Speaker 2: our inner demons, as teachers. 469 00:28:28,046 --> 00:28:29,346 Speaker 1: How does insight help us do that? 470 00:28:30,766 --> 00:28:36,206 Speaker 3: Well, insight helps us to recognize that, first of all, 471 00:28:36,266 --> 00:28:40,166 Speaker 3: some of the bad stuff that we do is motivated 472 00:28:40,286 --> 00:28:46,796 Speaker 3: by qualities that are actually good qualities. So For example, 473 00:28:46,816 --> 00:28:52,996 Speaker 3: addiction is one case. We might become addicted to looking 474 00:28:53,056 --> 00:28:57,376 Speaker 3: at the news or we might become addicted to exercise 475 00:28:57,476 --> 00:29:02,356 Speaker 3: in a way that becomes maladaptive. The initial motivation, the 476 00:29:02,386 --> 00:29:06,486 Speaker 3: initial spark for our interest in a particular activity may 477 00:29:06,546 --> 00:29:09,766 Speaker 3: be wholesome. You know, we may want to know what's 478 00:29:09,786 --> 00:29:12,426 Speaker 3: going on in the world to be a better informed citizen. 479 00:29:12,926 --> 00:29:16,456 Speaker 3: We do exercise. because we recognize that it's good for 480 00:29:16,536 --> 00:29:19,316 Speaker 3: our health. But then it takes on a kind of 481 00:29:19,376 --> 00:29:24,516 Speaker 3: pathological extreme. But when we have insight, we can recognize 482 00:29:25,036 --> 00:29:29,466 Speaker 3: that the initial seed might actually be a wholesome seed 483 00:29:29,546 --> 00:29:32,926 Speaker 3: and we can honor that. And that helps us to 484 00:29:32,986 --> 00:29:34,726 Speaker 3: begin to make these changes. 485 00:29:35,966 --> 00:29:38,586 Speaker 2: So that was pillar number three, insight. Now we turn 486 00:29:38,626 --> 00:29:40,766 Speaker 2: to the final pillar that we need to flourish, which 487 00:29:40,846 --> 00:29:43,506 Speaker 2: is purpose. How do you personally define purpose? 488 00:29:44,856 --> 00:29:47,886 Speaker 3: When we use purpose, we're not thinking about trying to 489 00:29:47,946 --> 00:29:52,076 Speaker 3: find something big and grand and more purposeful for you 490 00:29:52,096 --> 00:29:54,416 Speaker 3: to do with your life. But how can we find 491 00:29:54,476 --> 00:29:58,306 Speaker 3: meaning and purpose in our everyday activities, even in the 492 00:29:58,366 --> 00:30:01,986 Speaker 3: pedestrian activities that we do in our life? Can taking 493 00:30:02,046 --> 00:30:05,646 Speaker 3: out the garbage be connected to our sense of purpose? 494 00:30:06,286 --> 00:30:08,306 Speaker 3: And of course it could be, it just requires a 495 00:30:08,346 --> 00:30:12,066 Speaker 3: little bit of reframing, a little mindset shift. And so 496 00:30:12,286 --> 00:30:17,676 Speaker 3: if we can connect our activities with core values that 497 00:30:17,696 --> 00:30:21,316 Speaker 3: are important for us, then it just opens up a 498 00:30:21,436 --> 00:30:25,386 Speaker 3: whole range of possibility. And so if one of our 499 00:30:25,446 --> 00:30:28,606 Speaker 3: core values, for example, is being kind to our family, 500 00:30:28,986 --> 00:30:31,726 Speaker 3: to the people we live with, taking out the garbage 501 00:30:31,906 --> 00:30:35,776 Speaker 3: is not just taking out the garbage, but it's actually 502 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:41,256 Speaker 3: an act of generosity. So we can reframe simple activities 503 00:30:41,406 --> 00:30:45,946 Speaker 3: of that sort. And in that way, we really can 504 00:30:46,466 --> 00:30:50,066 Speaker 3: change our experience. In the work we did with school teachers, 505 00:30:50,266 --> 00:30:53,196 Speaker 3: purpose turned out to be one of the most important pillars. 506 00:30:53,586 --> 00:30:56,916 Speaker 3: We did a simple practice where we invited them to 507 00:30:56,976 --> 00:31:00,036 Speaker 3: reflect on their sense of purpose in becoming a school teacher. 508 00:31:00,856 --> 00:31:04,096 Speaker 3: And this was just like an elixir for their soul. 509 00:31:04,816 --> 00:31:07,856 Speaker 3: And many reported that it reminded them of why they 510 00:31:07,896 --> 00:31:11,096 Speaker 3: became a teacher in the first place. And that was 511 00:31:11,396 --> 00:31:12,376 Speaker 3: really beneficial. 512 00:31:13,396 --> 00:31:15,736 Speaker 2: So that's purpose in the small things in life. You've 513 00:31:15,756 --> 00:31:18,376 Speaker 2: also talked about how we can use this pillar of 514 00:31:18,416 --> 00:31:21,896 Speaker 2: purpose when big, even more challenging things come up. And 515 00:31:21,916 --> 00:31:23,836 Speaker 2: I know in your book, you talked about your experience 516 00:31:23,856 --> 00:31:26,616 Speaker 2: of shepherding your son through a difficult situation. If you're 517 00:31:26,636 --> 00:31:28,336 Speaker 2: comfortable with it, I'd love if you could share the 518 00:31:28,476 --> 00:31:30,726 Speaker 2: lesson that you learned while doing that about purpose. 519 00:31:31,826 --> 00:31:35,346 Speaker 3: So he had a very challenging adolescence at a certain 520 00:31:35,406 --> 00:31:38,386 Speaker 3: point in time when he was 16. We never thought 521 00:31:38,426 --> 00:31:41,306 Speaker 3: he would go to college. We gave up many of 522 00:31:41,766 --> 00:31:46,436 Speaker 3: our expectations for him. We were just trying to keep 523 00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:51,616 Speaker 3: him alive and healthy. And so that sense of purpose 524 00:31:51,776 --> 00:31:55,336 Speaker 3: really became a defining value for us at that time. 525 00:31:55,356 --> 00:32:01,146 Speaker 3: It really just helped us focus and refocus and recalibrate 526 00:32:01,646 --> 00:32:06,156 Speaker 3: and really helped us through this very challenging period. He's 527 00:32:06,236 --> 00:32:10,756 Speaker 3: now in his 30s. He's an amazing father. He's become 528 00:32:10,796 --> 00:32:14,836 Speaker 3: a school psychologist and helping kids very much like him. 529 00:32:14,996 --> 00:32:17,996 Speaker 3: So I often think of him as a poster child 530 00:32:18,036 --> 00:32:18,996 Speaker 3: for plasticity. 531 00:32:19,556 --> 00:32:22,306 Speaker 2: And so we've heard about all of these different pillars. 532 00:32:22,506 --> 00:32:25,846 Speaker 2: We need these practices to get there. Any specific practices 533 00:32:25,866 --> 00:32:28,146 Speaker 2: you want to leave our listeners with that they should 534 00:32:28,166 --> 00:32:30,486 Speaker 2: be thinking about if they want to build these things up? 535 00:32:31,496 --> 00:32:35,426 Speaker 3: Well, Laurie, an important question, which I really haven't answered yet, 536 00:32:35,866 --> 00:32:38,046 Speaker 3: even if it's just five minutes a day, how do 537 00:32:38,066 --> 00:32:40,526 Speaker 3: we actually do that? How do we remember to do that? 538 00:32:40,986 --> 00:32:43,046 Speaker 3: And one of the things that we talk about in 539 00:32:43,066 --> 00:32:47,226 Speaker 3: the book is how to build a conscious habit, which 540 00:32:47,326 --> 00:32:51,146 Speaker 3: in many ways is an oxymoron because often habits are 541 00:32:51,206 --> 00:32:54,846 Speaker 3: thought of as unconscious. We do them quite automatically, but 542 00:32:54,916 --> 00:32:58,436 Speaker 3: what we're talking about is really building a conscious habit. 543 00:32:58,576 --> 00:33:03,676 Speaker 3: And what we invite people readers to contemplate is to 544 00:33:03,836 --> 00:33:08,726 Speaker 3: piggyback this on to activities of daily living that are 545 00:33:08,806 --> 00:33:11,466 Speaker 3: regular activities. So one of the things that humans do 546 00:33:11,526 --> 00:33:15,346 Speaker 3: every day is we eat. You know, that's a great opportunity. 547 00:33:15,826 --> 00:33:19,286 Speaker 3: If we take even just one minute before we eat, 548 00:33:19,346 --> 00:33:21,426 Speaker 3: we can even do this as we're eating. So it 549 00:33:21,486 --> 00:33:24,526 Speaker 3: doesn't take any extra time. But just to reflect on 550 00:33:24,996 --> 00:33:28,176 Speaker 3: all the people it took to bring food, food on 551 00:33:28,236 --> 00:33:31,536 Speaker 3: your plate. When you think about it, There really is 552 00:33:31,596 --> 00:33:35,556 Speaker 3: an enormous number of people that were required. And it 553 00:33:35,636 --> 00:33:39,436 Speaker 3: gives you, first of all, an understanding of interdependence. We're 554 00:33:39,496 --> 00:33:44,746 Speaker 3: not isolated creatures, but rather we critically depend on this 555 00:33:45,286 --> 00:33:50,646 Speaker 3: interconnected web for survival. And secondly, it allows a sense 556 00:33:50,686 --> 00:33:55,596 Speaker 3: of appreciation. So you can do these simple practices around 557 00:33:55,966 --> 00:33:59,806 Speaker 3: these regular activities of daily living. Before you go into 558 00:33:59,946 --> 00:34:03,516 Speaker 3: any important meeting, you can reflect on the people you're 559 00:34:03,536 --> 00:34:06,956 Speaker 3: meeting with and think of something positive about them. When 560 00:34:07,156 --> 00:34:11,656 Speaker 3: you're walking outside... That's an opportunity for an awareness practice. 561 00:34:11,696 --> 00:34:14,766 Speaker 3: Just bring your awareness to your body. See how it 562 00:34:14,846 --> 00:34:18,806 Speaker 3: feels to walk. And again, there's nothing to change, nothing 563 00:34:18,866 --> 00:34:22,246 Speaker 3: to fix. And in many ways, it's shifting from a 564 00:34:22,306 --> 00:34:26,396 Speaker 3: mode of doing to a mode of simply being. Our 565 00:34:26,496 --> 00:34:30,976 Speaker 3: lives are just replete with opportunities if we just harness 566 00:34:31,176 --> 00:34:32,116 Speaker 3: these situations. 567 00:34:33,476 --> 00:34:35,436 Speaker 2: I love this insight and it's given me such a 568 00:34:35,496 --> 00:34:38,476 Speaker 2: shift in how I relate to these mundane different tasks. 569 00:34:38,746 --> 00:34:41,856 Speaker 2: A big one for me was your inspiration of your schedule. Normally, 570 00:34:41,876 --> 00:34:43,216 Speaker 2: I would pull out my schedule and look in and 571 00:34:43,236 --> 00:34:45,936 Speaker 2: be like, oh, gosh, the day. And I was like, wait, 572 00:34:46,016 --> 00:34:46,636 Speaker 2: four pillars. 573 00:34:46,776 --> 00:34:47,256 Speaker 1: Connection. 574 00:34:47,296 --> 00:34:49,676 Speaker 2: I'm having these meetings with interesting people like you, Richie, 575 00:34:49,696 --> 00:34:51,546 Speaker 2: who I get to talk to. And it's so fun. 576 00:34:51,646 --> 00:34:54,006 Speaker 2: Or I get a sense of purpose from what I'm doing. 577 00:34:54,366 --> 00:34:57,706 Speaker 2: It's also been this moment of kind of just awareness 578 00:34:57,746 --> 00:35:00,286 Speaker 2: of noticing of like, oh, that's a sense of overwhelm. 579 00:35:00,306 --> 00:35:03,246 Speaker 2: Maybe tomorrow I shouldn't have as many meetings on my schedule. 580 00:35:03,326 --> 00:35:05,566 Speaker 2: That's just like a two minute period. But I'm bringing 581 00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:08,196 Speaker 2: in so many of these different pillars to notice what's 582 00:35:08,236 --> 00:35:10,556 Speaker 2: going on. And I really think it's having just a 583 00:35:10,596 --> 00:35:12,516 Speaker 2: big effect on how I treat the day and how 584 00:35:12,576 --> 00:35:13,616 Speaker 2: I feel during the day. 585 00:35:14,756 --> 00:35:17,876 Speaker 3: That's great. I love that. Thank you for all you're doing, Laurie, 586 00:35:17,976 --> 00:35:20,626 Speaker 3: to bring these ideas to the world. 587 00:35:21,666 --> 00:35:25,146 Speaker 2: If you're interested in learning more about how to cultivate awareness, connection, insight, 588 00:35:25,166 --> 00:35:27,726 Speaker 2: and purpose, then be sure to check out Richie's new book, 589 00:35:28,066 --> 00:35:31,036 Speaker 2: Born to Flourish, which is available now. And if you 590 00:35:31,056 --> 00:35:34,316 Speaker 2: want even more practical tips for putting these ideas into practice, 591 00:35:34,676 --> 00:35:38,736 Speaker 2: you can also download Richie's freely available award-winning app, Healthy 592 00:35:38,776 --> 00:35:42,886 Speaker 2: Minds Program. Next week, we'll continue our fall book series 593 00:35:43,026 --> 00:35:46,586 Speaker 2: with a conversation with podcaster Eric Zimmer. We'll hear what 594 00:35:46,626 --> 00:35:50,146 Speaker 2: his battle with heroin addiction taught him about personal transformation 595 00:35:50,346 --> 00:35:53,626 Speaker 2: and building wiser habits. All ideas that he explores in 596 00:35:53,666 --> 00:35:55,806 Speaker 2: his new book, How a Little Becomes a Lot. 597 00:35:56,206 --> 00:35:58,166 Speaker 4: If I handed you a trombone and you picked it 598 00:35:58,206 --> 00:36:00,696 Speaker 4: up and started playing, it would sound terrible. We wouldn't 599 00:36:00,796 --> 00:36:01,656 Speaker 4: conclude that. 600 00:36:01,596 --> 00:36:02,796 Speaker 3: You were a bad person. 601 00:36:03,336 --> 00:36:05,796 Speaker 4: We just conclude you don't know how to play the trombone. 602 00:36:06,536 --> 00:36:08,936 Speaker 4: But when it comes to our own behaviors and our 603 00:36:08,996 --> 00:36:11,176 Speaker 4: own emotions, we take it very personally. 604 00:36:11,476 --> 00:36:13,636 Speaker 3: And we think it tells a story about us. 605 00:36:14,016 --> 00:36:16,506 Speaker 4: And I think it's incredibly important that we flip that 606 00:36:16,606 --> 00:36:20,306 Speaker 4: story and we say, OK, we can learn to change. 607 00:36:20,906 --> 00:36:23,836 Speaker 2: All that's next week on the Happiness Lab with me, Dr. 608 00:36:23,876 --> 00:36:24,596 Speaker 2: Laurie Santos.