Speaker 1: M It's me Robert with the show Evans Behind the Bastards.
Speaker 1: This is the podcast that this is where we talk
Speaker 1: about the bad people. Sophie, you look very confused. Uh,
Speaker 1: they can't all be what's cracking life? Have us? You
Speaker 1: know we're not all They're not all going to be perfect.
Speaker 1: I am Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, the
Speaker 1: show we tell you everything you don't know about the
Speaker 1: very worst people in all the history. My guest for
Speaker 1: part two, as with part one is Tamma Kaitany. What
Speaker 1: are you doing. I'm doing great. I'm enjoying the conversation.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to learn a little bit more about
Speaker 1: Roger Stone. I'm ready to learn more and ready to
Speaker 1: sleep less easy. Yeah, well that is the Roger Stone guarantee.
Speaker 1: So one of the reasons I might believe the claim
Speaker 1: that Roger Stone was a major influence on Trump's mind
Speaker 1: is the fact that he and Donald Trump really do
Speaker 1: have quite a long history of working together. Despite Donald
Speaker 1: Trump's two twelve comments that Stone was a stone cold loser,
Speaker 1: he was happy to continue to work with the ban
Speaker 1: after his reform part the candidacy failed in two thousand.
Speaker 1: While he was helping George W. Bush and Florida. Roger
Speaker 1: Stone also took time to help Donald Trump with a
Speaker 1: new pet project, a grassroots anti gambling campaign. It was
Speaker 1: targeted at the Mohawk Nation. The tribe had opened a
Speaker 1: casino on their land in New York State and planned
Speaker 1: to open another casino in the Catskills. At the time,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump owned three casinos in Atlantic City, the Northeast
Speaker 1: traditional gambling hup. Clearly, the Mohawk Nation represented a threat
Speaker 1: to this earnings of Donald Trump. The ad Stone designed
Speaker 1: arm pretty on the edge as far as racism goes.
Speaker 1: I've got a clip of one of them here which
Speaker 1: will have up on the side behind the Bastards dot com.
Speaker 1: It says, in big letters, drug dealing at Monticello or
Speaker 1: Monticello whatever, Thomas Jefferson's creepy house. And it's got like
Speaker 1: a picture of like a needle and lines of cocaine
Speaker 1: and like a baggy of drugs. And then it says, quote,
Speaker 1: the St. Regis Mohawk Indian tribe proposes to open a
Speaker 1: gambling casino at the Monticello Racetrack in Sullivan County. How
Speaker 1: much do you really know about the St. Regis Mohawk Indians.
Speaker 1: According to The New York Times, US and Canadian law
Speaker 1: enforcement officials broke up the biggest cocaine trafficking ring in
Speaker 1: northern New York, operating on the fourteen thousand acres St.
Speaker 1: Regis Mohawk Reservation. Twenty six people were arrested. Police also
Speaker 1: confiscated nineteen shotguns and handguns. And it goes on like
Speaker 1: this saying Indians are criminals, that's the and fear among
Speaker 1: their just like the border crossing where they use pictures
Speaker 1: of people crossing the border in Spain. Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: lies about women being duct taped and stuff. Now, this
Speaker 1: this ad, which is pretty offensive, is noted on the
Speaker 1: bottom as a project of the New York Institute for
Speaker 1: Law and Society. Have you ever heard of the New
Speaker 1: York Institute for Law in Society. Nope? Well, it claimed
Speaker 1: to be a grassroots organization made up of twelve thousand
Speaker 1: pro family donors who just you know, they don't like
Speaker 1: gambling and they just don't one any more casinos in
Speaker 1: their neighborhood. The reality is that you could probably have
Speaker 1: counted the actual number of donors using one hand. Donald
Speaker 1: Trump put up virtually all of the money somewhere around
Speaker 1: one point five million dollars. Trump signed off on the
Speaker 1: ads and the language used in them, and paid the
Speaker 1: bills for the private eyes Stone hired to surveill the tribe.
Speaker 1: The whole operation was Roger's plan because this organization violated
Speaker 1: New York laws on lobbying, because you're not allowed to
Speaker 1: pretend that something has a bunch of funders when it's
Speaker 1: just one guy who's doing it so that his own
Speaker 1: casinos don't have competition. You're not supposed to do that.
Speaker 1: So the state investigated. They wound up sitting down with
Speaker 1: Roger Stone and interviewing him. Here's the l A Times quote.
Speaker 1: Stone told state investigators that he thought the public might
Speaker 1: pay attention to a pro family group, but not to Trump,
Speaker 1: allowed and longtime critic of Native American gambling, who was
Speaker 1: trying to stay off competition for his three casinos in
Speaker 1: Atlantic City. You could hide Trump's actions from the public.
Speaker 1: The investigators grilled Stone, And you did that over and
Speaker 1: over again, yes, Stone answered each time, finally adding nothing
Speaker 1: is wrong with that. By the way, there actually was
Speaker 1: something wrong with that. Trump and or Stone were fined
Speaker 1: two and fifty thousand dollars for breaking the law and
Speaker 1: required to pay more than thirty dollars to run statements
Speaker 1: in Albany area newspapers. Yeah, it's just nothing for them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the the text of the statement. Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: Roger Stone, and Thomas Hunter apologize if anyone was misled
Speaker 1: concerning the production and funding of the lobbying effort. They
Speaker 1: did not apologize for the ads content. Now, over the
Speaker 1: next fifteen years there were dozens and probably hundreds of
Speaker 1: other stories like that. Roger Stone developed a special hatred
Speaker 1: for Elliot Spitzer, Attorney General of New York from thousand
Speaker 1: and six and then governor of the state and two
Speaker 1: thousand seven. Now, Elliott was born rich like a shocking
Speaker 1: number of US politicians, and his father had pumped millions
Speaker 1: of dollars into his career. Back in the mid nineties,
Speaker 1: right around the time Elliott was elected governor, he threatened
Speaker 1: to release records about Republican Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno.
Speaker 1: There was basically like a rumor that Bruno had been
Speaker 1: using state aircraft to aid in his re election campaign,
Speaker 1: and Spitzer was going to like release records that would
Speaker 1: prove that or not. And I think Bruno was eventually
Speaker 1: found not guilty of that, I'm not sure, but he
Speaker 1: was also later found taking a bribe and then got
Speaker 1: off on like a technicality, but totally received like four
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars from some guy anyway. So so Joe Bruno,
Speaker 1: Republican Senate majority a leader of New York, did not
Speaker 1: like Elliot Spitzer. These guys were at each other's throats,
Speaker 1: and in order to get back at his political enemy
Speaker 1: and to distract from his own corruption charges, Joe Bruno
Speaker 1: called up Roger Stone and offered him twenty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a month to end Elliot Spitzer's career. Roger gleefully dove
Speaker 1: into this effort to destroy another person. One June morning
Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, Eliot's eighty three year old father, Bernard,
Speaker 1: who suffered from Parkinson's, woke up to find this message
Speaker 1: on his answering machine. This is a message for Bernard Spitzer.
Speaker 1: You will be subpoena to testify before the Senate Committee
Speaker 1: on Investigations on your shady campaign loans. You will be
Speaker 1: compelled by the Senate Sergeant at Arms. If you resist
Speaker 1: the subpoena, you will be arrested and brought to Albany,
Speaker 1: And there's not a goddamn thing your phony psycho piece
Speaker 1: of ships son can do about it. Bernie, your phony
Speaker 1: loans are about to catch up with you. You will
Speaker 1: be forced to tell the truth, and the fact that
Speaker 1: your son is a pathological liar will be known to all.
Speaker 1: So uh yeah, by the way, that is when I
Speaker 1: quoted in the first episode Donald Trump calling him a
Speaker 1: loser and saying he's a liar and everything, that's why
Speaker 1: because actually Donald Trump liked Elliot Spitzer's dad, and it
Speaker 1: was like, actually, like Donald Trump was morally offended by
Speaker 1: this message. It's just that's a hard line to him,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty gnarly to an eighty three year old man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: an ill who is the father of the guy you
Speaker 1: don't like and attack him that way? Who you got
Speaker 1: paid tonight? You know, Like, yeah, he didn't like him,
Speaker 1: but it's like his job getting paid to destroy his son,
Speaker 1: not his dad. Like, how does that help you deal
Speaker 1: with Elliot Spitzer? He's just a gross person. Now Roger
Speaker 1: claims that that's not him. We're gonna dig into that
Speaker 1: a lot of here. That's as much his suits are him.
Speaker 1: That's a pinstriped voice. I will let you know. Um well,
Speaker 1: we'll put in a link to that particular audio clip
Speaker 1: on the side it. It includes, after the voicemail, several
Speaker 1: clips of just Roger talking for yourself. That's fucking Roger Stone.
Speaker 1: But like Bernard Spitzer hired a p I who traced
Speaker 1: the call back to Roger's apartment and stuff like, it's
Speaker 1: it's definitely Roger Stone unless you're Roger Stone. Now, Roger
Speaker 1: has always denied making that call. He has in some
Speaker 1: recent interviews quately said it does sound a lot like me,
Speaker 1: but he blamed it at the time on former stand
Speaker 1: up comedian and radio host Randy Cretico. Now we're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking about Randy Cretico a little bit later today
Speaker 1: to yeah, ready, Credico was like a comedian. He was
Speaker 1: on like Leno sometimes he did like improv and he
Speaker 1: Stone was basically like, he's so good at doing fake voices.
Speaker 1: He pretended to be this guy and this guy it's
Speaker 1: clearly him pretending to be me. And Credico was like,
Speaker 1: I haven't even talked to Roger in years. Why would
Speaker 1: I do this like which? And why would you do
Speaker 1: something so mean? And even like a comic it be
Speaker 1: one thing to be like, maybe this comedian called up
Speaker 1: the governor of New York to leave him a shitty
Speaker 1: messages someone else. Okay, I can imagine that happening, like
Speaker 1: Obie and Anthony did ship, but his dad like why
Speaker 1: and there was no There's no value in it at all.
Speaker 1: It's just cruelty. Yeah. Now, Stone and Credico had met
Speaker 1: back in two thousand three, and Randy had introduced Roger
Speaker 1: to Al Sharpton. Sharpton had hired Stone to help with
Speaker 1: his two thousand four presidential run, probably in the hope
Speaker 1: that Sharpton's campaign would take votes away from John Kerry.
Speaker 1: Roger would later tell the Washington Post quote credit co
Speaker 1: became convinced that he should get paid for introducing me
Speaker 1: to Sharpton. He refused to do so. Stone continues because
Speaker 1: while Credico is a cocaine addict, and Stone knew that
Speaker 1: any money he gave to the guy would go quote
Speaker 1: up his nose. So Roger Stone leaves this really gross message.
Speaker 1: It's obviously him. He blames it on a friend of
Speaker 1: his that he hasn't talked to in years, and also
Speaker 1: says the guy's a coke addict. Now This may sound
Speaker 1: a little bit familiar to Well, but also Roger Stone,
Speaker 1: when it came out that he had been putting up
Speaker 1: sex ads in his magazine, is like, no, it's my housekeeper.
Speaker 1: Like and Trump thrown his own his own son in
Speaker 1: law under the bus. No one's sake. No one is safe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a gross way to live, it really is. And
Speaker 1: the only way you can live that way is if
Speaker 1: you have more money than God. You know what kills
Speaker 1: me is all my life. I've grown up watching these
Speaker 1: Hollywood films and I always just a sense of justice
Speaker 1: is what kept me happy. Yeah, believing in things like karma,
Speaker 1: believing that things come around. This is a movie where
Speaker 1: the bad guy win is winning so far, and like,
Speaker 1: why is this movie so long? Why? Why is this
Speaker 1: movie my entire life? Is he going to get it? Man?
Speaker 1: But I've ever seen a guy in the middle of
Speaker 1: a horror movie. It's such a jerky like I can't
Speaker 1: wait till he dies because I know it's going to
Speaker 1: be something horrific. The Paul Manafort story has been there
Speaker 1: for me because just like seeing him denied to wear
Speaker 1: a suit recently, and like ill and clearly not healthy,
Speaker 1: and just like yeah, die in prison, Paul. I'm violently
Speaker 1: angry about a man off it. I spent time in Ukraine, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I saw a lot like Roger Stone's a piece
Speaker 1: of ship. But like, maybe this makes the episode weaker,
Speaker 1: but no one will ever match the hate that we
Speaker 1: do on this show that I have for Paul Manafort. It.
Speaker 1: I mean, look how many millions He's literally responsible for
Speaker 1: millions of millions of death Yeah, I mean millions of deaths,
Speaker 1: made a civil war go on for a decade longer
Speaker 1: than Yeah. Yeah, conservatively five or six hundred thousand deaths
Speaker 1: in that conflict alone. And for money, Yeah, for money,
Speaker 1: for money he didn't need, and he had all the
Speaker 1: money you need, you need it already. I could talk
Speaker 1: about Paul no, no, no, I mean I get I
Speaker 1: get really worked up when we talk about Manafort. But
Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that, like there's almost a way
Speaker 1: you could say Roger Stone is even grosser, because at
Speaker 1: least Paul Manafort was getting involved, was in the trenches
Speaker 1: dealing with those people, Roger Stone was just cashing their
Speaker 1: checks just like, yeah, I don't give a ship where
Speaker 1: this money comes from, So you couldn't say that's grosser.
Speaker 1: You could say that's grosser. Maybe it is now. Randy
Speaker 1: Credico was going to come back into this story a
Speaker 1: little bit later. But what's important right now is that
Speaker 1: Bruno fired Stone after this voicemail came out. You know,
Speaker 1: but Elliott's bits are wind up going down anyway. It's
Speaker 1: kind of debatable as to whether or not it was
Speaker 1: Roger's dirty tricks that were responsible of it. There was
Speaker 1: a federal wire tap in a New York Times report
Speaker 1: about him that revealed he'd been spending tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of dollars in high priced prostitutes, and his big thing was,
Speaker 1: like he sleeps with prostitutes while wearing his socks. That's
Speaker 1: Roger Stone. That's a Stone detail. Roger Stone repeated that
Speaker 1: detail to every newspaper in the goddamn world for months.
Speaker 1: It's very pet, but it's very He has a really
Speaker 1: subtle understanding of how humanity works. Yeah, that's something that like,
Speaker 1: even if I was that sort of a person, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't think that that detail would matter. He knew that,
Speaker 1: it totally did. Yeah, and we don't even know him.
Speaker 1: Maybe he made that detail up. Maybe he just knew
Speaker 1: of That's something that will stick in their heads. But
Speaker 1: I could also see that one being true, because Eliot's
Speaker 1: bits are undoubtedly was hanging out with a lot of prostitutes, um,
Speaker 1: which I wouldn't have an issue with if he hadn't
Speaker 1: been in a turn any general and thus responsible for
Speaker 1: prosecuting prostitution in New York. Um. But it's debatable. You'll
Speaker 1: hear people say that Stone dropped the dime on Spitzer
Speaker 1: to the FBI, and that's why there was the investigation,
Speaker 1: and that's where everything came out that he did bus
Speaker 1: Spitzer this way. I haven't found hard proof of that.
Speaker 1: There was definitely a federal wire tap and a New
Speaker 1: York Times report about him. It's entirely possible that Roger
Speaker 1: Stone that his main contribution was dropping that story about
Speaker 1: the socks and then like he just sort of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a happy accent. I really don't know, but
Speaker 1: it seems pretty likely that he had a significant role
Speaker 1: in Spitzer's political downfall. That that does seem likely. Um.
Speaker 1: All the tales of Roger Stone's crapulence over the years
Speaker 1: prompted The New Yorker to write a profile of him
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. I think that article is the
Speaker 1: first place, at least the first major outlet where Roger
Speaker 1: started talking about what he called stones rules. These include
Speaker 1: such chunks of political wisdom as he who speaks first
Speaker 1: loses attack, attack a hack, never defend, admit nothing, deny everything,
Speaker 1: launch counter attack. And when I hear the word culture,
Speaker 1: I reached from my revolver. Wow. So there was another one.
Speaker 1: That there's a lot, there's an endless number of The
Speaker 1: one that makes my skin crawl is that hate is
Speaker 1: a greater motivator than love. And that's the one that
Speaker 1: makes my skin crawl because that is the Trump campaign. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and every campaign he's been involved. I mean, that's fascism, man, Like,
Speaker 1: that's the core ideological not that I don't think Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is an ideological anything, but that is the core
Speaker 1: of that political philosophy. Is that hate and fear a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot more powerful than love. Yeah, although
Speaker 1: Hitler would have said, no, it's the love of the
Speaker 1: vulcan or whatever that is that I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna argue with dead Hitler here. Um, reasonable men
Speaker 1: and Hitler can disagree. I'll let you win against dead Hitler.
Speaker 1: We all went against death. We do here here we're
Speaker 1: still stupid. Suck on that Hitler. Yeah, with your baby mustache,
Speaker 1: you freak stupid mustache. I don't know, Like part of
Speaker 1: me wonders like, if Hitler hadn't ever been a Hitler,
Speaker 1: would that mustache be around, would like we all have
Speaker 1: a friend with I think it would be back in
Speaker 1: East Hollywood for sure. I feel like people dip their
Speaker 1: toes with the Hitler youth haircause they dip their toes.
Speaker 1: I mean that that's shaved on the sides, look as
Speaker 1: nice it can, it can work, looks nice come back.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's baby mustache, a Jason. It's baby mustache Adjason.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's one of those things where like
Speaker 1: at the time it was like this, we're way off topic,
Speaker 1: but that was considered like a working man's mustache. You
Speaker 1: don't have to groom it or anything. That's an honest
Speaker 1: man's mustache. And so that's kind of like what Hitler
Speaker 1: was repping to everyone. It's like, I'm just a normal
Speaker 1: working joe like you. Ye see. I think that's the
Speaker 1: thing that he sees the way like a great athlete
Speaker 1: or a great chef or a great artist can see
Speaker 1: things that normal people can't see. I think he sees
Speaker 1: these subtleties. He sees like a naked man wearing socks
Speaker 1: and goes, that's not presidential. Yeah, that's ridiculous. That's that
Speaker 1: can hurt him. No one will take him seriously having
Speaker 1: this in their mind, I should shave my mustache so
Speaker 1: they look at me and say I'm one of them,
Speaker 1: Like he's got that kind of I And if we're
Speaker 1: looking at what is there some aspect of what I have?
Speaker 1: Part of me believes that anyone is prominent, is someone
Speaker 1: like Roger Stone has become there is an aspect of
Speaker 1: genius at play, just like there is. You have to
Speaker 1: Alex Jones. You have to otherwise they become too powerful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to allow yourself to have a level of
Speaker 1: respect so you can figure out how to deconstruct them.
Speaker 1: And I think you've I didn't really figure out when
Speaker 1: I was writing this, but I think you've nailed what
Speaker 1: it is that his geniuses is recognizing those It's not
Speaker 1: the actual tricks he plays. It's knowing how to present
Speaker 1: things in a way that leave an indelible image in
Speaker 1: people's heads. And I think the Spitzer thing, like really
Speaker 1: focusing on those socks that he's wearing all these fucking
Speaker 1: these call girls. I think that nails it. I think
Speaker 1: that's like what he's good at. Yeah, and that will
Speaker 1: actually be talking about some more stuff like that a
Speaker 1: little bit later. Uh so. Yeah. Roger Stone starts in
Speaker 1: like the early two thousand, is talking about Stones Rules
Speaker 1: all the time. Every interview he does, so drop the rules,
Speaker 1: you know, this is my rule here, this is my
Speaker 1: rule here. This is trying to brand himself. Here's a
Speaker 1: quote from The New Yorker. His outfit comported with two
Speaker 1: of the rules in his book Stones Rules for War, Politics, Food,
Speaker 1: Fashion and Living, which he hopes to publish soon. Never
Speaker 1: wear a double breasted suit in a button down collar
Speaker 1: and white. I just love the idea that it's It's
Speaker 1: like such a Michael Scott thing to do is have
Speaker 1: the name of a book that you haven't written, that
Speaker 1: you talked to an interview zing. Yeah, Michael Scarn. It's
Speaker 1: just like because I started looking up that book and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he hadn't written that. When this
Speaker 1: came out, I was just trying to make it a thing.
Speaker 1: I am proud to say on behalf of Roger that
Speaker 1: he did eventually right, kind of that book. It wasn't
Speaker 1: the same title, but you can buy it, you know,
Speaker 1: Stones Rules, How to Win It, Politics, Business and Style
Speaker 1: from the Info War store right now. Yeah, it currently
Speaker 1: has twelve reviews, so you could really be on the
Speaker 1: ground floor. This is the copy or the And he's
Speaker 1: covering his weird bird lips. Yeah, he's covering his weird
Speaker 1: bird lips like his guy like his hand at his
Speaker 1: at his lips or something. Yeah, he's he really I
Speaker 1: think he's trying to cover those jowels or something. Interesting
Speaker 1: choice that he would cover up half his face. Such
Speaker 1: an arrogant man. It shows you he's simultaneously arrogant and insecure.
Speaker 1: Nobody who's that obsessed with fashion can be secure in there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree, nobody who fucking worries about what
Speaker 1: their suspenders are called secure in their physical form. He's
Speaker 1: the opposite of the cat that stars in the mirror
Speaker 1: that sees a lion. He's a lion that stars in
Speaker 1: a mirror and sees a cat, a little baby kitten.
Speaker 1: He's so weak, that's what all this peacocking is. Like
Speaker 1: an old lady that used to be really sexy and
Speaker 1: wears a miniskirt, and you're like, that's not you. This
Speaker 1: guys sixty six. And he still calls himself a quote
Speaker 1: unquote tough guy. Well, and it's like he also needs
Speaker 1: to be attached to some bigger man. He doesn't do
Speaker 1: anything on his own because he's he's the kitten. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: whether or not it's Alex Jones or Donald Trump, he's
Speaker 1: always attached to somebody exactly. He's the sidekick. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: kind of like a chronic, sleazy sidekick of right wing firebrands. Weird,
Speaker 1: like if Darth Vader had a talk show, he'd be
Speaker 1: evil Ed McMahon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Now.
Speaker 1: That two thousand eight New Yorker interview also revealed that
Speaker 1: Roger Stone had in two thousand seven gotten a photo
Speaker 1: accurate back tattoo of the head of his hero Richard Nixon.
Speaker 1: The article also noted that Stone tan's twelve months a
Speaker 1: year and drinks four triple espressos every day. Stone talked
Speaker 1: about his recent move to Miami, saying it's a sunny
Speaker 1: place for shady people. Yeah, that's a good quote. He's something.
Speaker 1: The man could turn a phrase every Now, you really
Speaker 1: can't that was That's a good one. It is a
Speaker 1: good one. And you know, he was an actor for
Speaker 1: a while in high school. No, I didn't even run across.
Speaker 1: He's an He was an actor for a short time
Speaker 1: in high school. And when he got into politics, he
Speaker 1: said this, he said, I then realized that acting in
Speaker 1: politics were the same. Oh see, like a lot of
Speaker 1: had that experience. Now more than ever with the transparency
Speaker 1: the Internet is creating. I mean, fucking Ronald Reagan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very true. Road bedtime for Bonzo right to the
Speaker 1: Oval office. Let's just make a stop before the rock.
Speaker 1: That's all I want. You know what, again, not the
Speaker 1: worst case scenario anymore. Sure, I've had not provert. Why not?
Speaker 1: Can you smell what the president just cocoon? I can't
Speaker 1: take that. Wouldn't it be soothing to just have a
Speaker 1: nice person in there? Yeah? I mean maybe the I'm
Speaker 1: sure the climate will continue it's unheated acceleration and do
Speaker 1: in sustainable like like greenhouse nightmare. But at least the
Speaker 1: president could be friendly. I just I think that should
Speaker 1: be the minimum requirement. We should have someone whose character
Speaker 1: is at a level that we just go, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is a decent human being who is at least trying
Speaker 1: for the good of the country, like Jimmy Carter and
Speaker 1: actually like no one else, but like Jimmy Carter, well
Speaker 1: at least he's a nice person, had a great president.
Speaker 1: But well, okay, so we are going to uh continue
Speaker 1: talking about Roger Stone and get into his uh downfall.
Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say downfall, which is going
Speaker 1: to be the most satisfying cathartic part of this podcast.
Speaker 1: But first, you know what's even more cathartic than the
Speaker 1: downfall of a monster? Tell me. I was just thinking
Speaker 1: about wonderful services and products that are provided by the
Speaker 1: advertisements in front of products we're back listeners. While those
Speaker 1: wonderful ads that you were spending your money on were running.
Speaker 1: We started to suspect that Roger Stone's greatest crime may
Speaker 1: in fact have been appropriating the phrase it's a sunny
Speaker 1: place for shady people from someone else. We found a
Speaker 1: sunglasses line in a book, although the book came out
Speaker 1: after that interviewed it, so it's hard to say Roger
Speaker 1: may have stolen that line from someone. So if he's
Speaker 1: going to do that research and we'll we'll get back
Speaker 1: to you or not if nothing interesting comes up, we
Speaker 1: won't get back to you and pretend this didn't happen anyway. So,
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, while he was doing that interview,
Speaker 1: it was not a great time to be a Republican
Speaker 1: in politics. You know, Barack Obama had just kind of
Speaker 1: bum rushed the McCain campaign. You know, it didn't look
Speaker 1: like the Republicans are going to be back in power
Speaker 1: for a little while. A white war hero beat a
Speaker 1: white war hero. Uh and whatever Sarah Palin is and uh,
Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was looking like a rough time
Speaker 1: for Republican political operation. And so in that interview, roger
Speaker 1: Stone noted, quote, the left has done a better job
Speaker 1: of dominating the new space. We're weak on the web.
Speaker 1: So a little foreshadowing there. Question about the McCain campaign,
Speaker 1: roger Stone advised, quote an Exonian slash and burn campaign
Speaker 1: against Barack Obama. Obama and his wife are elitists and
Speaker 1: their week they don't share middle class values. Middle class
Speaker 1: Americans are proud out of their country, and they are not.
Speaker 1: He thinks he's going to sit down with Iran and Hamas.
Speaker 1: How do you know he's not gonna shake hands with
Speaker 1: a suicide bomber. You can't sit down with people who
Speaker 1: don't want to sit down. All he's gonna do is
Speaker 1: raise taxes, which is going to give the government more money,
Speaker 1: but it's not going to create any jobs. Remember Stone
Speaker 1: said politics is not about uniting people, it's about dividing
Speaker 1: people and getting your Wow. That's Roger Stone and Paul
Speaker 1: Manafort and motherfucking nutshell. You know what. It might be
Speaker 1: his own thirst for attention, the attention he never got
Speaker 1: from his dad. That's gonna be his downfall because he's
Speaker 1: he can't not speak to the press. He's underestimating people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he even though he said he said this plenty of
Speaker 1: times that his target audience is not the elite, that
Speaker 1: is not the sophisticate. It's not people who who study
Speaker 1: or read up on politics. But now he's underestimating their
Speaker 1: ability to read things about him and for them to
Speaker 1: still be hypnotized. So here he kind of spinning off
Speaker 1: of that. I'm not sure if it's him underestimating them
Speaker 1: or if say fundamental he can't understand politics is not
Speaker 1: about politics to him, it's about the same thing a
Speaker 1: game of monopoly is. When you get into a really
Speaker 1: into a game of monopoly, and so he is incapable
Speaker 1: of realizing, Like, no, Roger, the things that you are
Speaker 1: doing have are impacting people's lives and horrible negative ways.
Speaker 1: When you give these politicians and they put in these
Speaker 1: these shortsighted policies that funk up and you know, lead
Speaker 1: to all the terrible things that these different politicians you've
Speaker 1: supported over the years have done. Like, when these things
Speaker 1: impact people's lives, they get angry and then they hear
Speaker 1: you talking about like dividing people and they're like, I
Speaker 1: can't talk to half my family. We're all screaming at
Speaker 1: each other, and like, you can't understand what it's like
Speaker 1: to be in that situation because none of this means
Speaker 1: that to you. So where the United States of America
Speaker 1: And to hear like a campaign manager or a political
Speaker 1: strategist for the President of the United States of America
Speaker 1: that his tactic was to divide a country whose foundation
Speaker 1: was about uniting. Yeah, it's just so heartbreaking. Well, and
Speaker 1: it's one of those things you couldn't until recently get
Speaker 1: away with. Like you remember when Barack Obama was running
Speaker 1: and he made that comment about people clinging to their
Speaker 1: guns and their bibles, that was a huge I was
Speaker 1: still very much in the right wing media bubble at
Speaker 1: that point in time in my life, and that was
Speaker 1: a huge issue with people being like and he and
Speaker 1: there were there's a good reason to be pissed about
Speaker 1: that if you're if you're a Bible leaving Christian, if
Speaker 1: you're someone who grew up shooting and has done that
Speaker 1: your whole life and live in a place where like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's an offensive thing. And he had he had to
Speaker 1: address that ship and any presidential candidate up until would
Speaker 1: have had to face consequences for a statement like that.
Speaker 1: A guy like Roger Stone has never had to because
Speaker 1: he's not a candidate ever, and it's almost never transparent
Speaker 1: who he's advising, and so he's never had to be
Speaker 1: that careful, which I think we're getting the part of
Speaker 1: the story where that bites him in the ass. Yeah. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it's worth noting before we move on from the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight that during that election he formed the
Speaker 1: group Citizens United Not Timid to oppose Hillary Clinton's presidential
Speaker 1: campaign literal acronym KUNT Yeah. Nice guy, Roger. Now in
Speaker 1: two two years into Elliott Spitzer's political exile, Roger Stone
Speaker 1: struck again after being laid off. He'd apparently found another
Speaker 1: set of backers, wealthy Republicans his description, who paid him
Speaker 1: to make sure Spitzer's political career stayed dead. And this
Speaker 1: is where, you know, after Spitzer was already at this
Speaker 1: is where he started talking about the socks like, this
Speaker 1: is where he started spreading that man. And he claims
Speaker 1: that he was like at an adult club and met
Speaker 1: a girl who was friends with a girl who'd worked
Speaker 1: with Spitzer, and she told him the story. It's a
Speaker 1: it's like I was talking to my prostitute friend and
Speaker 1: she said, this is how silly. And this is two
Speaker 1: years after Spitzer's out as governor, because he's already been disgraced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so unbelievable. Yeah, Anyway, Roger Stone seems to have grown
Speaker 1: less cautious and careful in his golden years. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: the corrupting influence of social media, but over the last
Speaker 1: decade he's racked up a pretty horrifying compilation of sexist remarks.
Speaker 1: Here's media Matters. Stone tweeted that New York Times columnist
Speaker 1: Gail Collins is an elitist cunt. MSNBC host Rachel Maddow
Speaker 1: is Rachel the muff diver Fox News is Megan Kelly
Speaker 1: has a nice set of cans, and Representative deVie Wasserman
Speaker 1: Schultz is a jap acronym for Jewish American princess. He
Speaker 1: thought that was going to be one kind of racist,
Speaker 1: but with another who is every man's first wife. He
Speaker 1: also tweeted die bitch at former New York Times executive
Speaker 1: editor Jill Abramson and said he would kill himself if
Speaker 1: he was married to screechy and chill Carly Fiorina. The
Speaker 1: Sun Sentinel also reported that Stone called Florida politician Barbara
Speaker 1: Stern a self important nasty kunt on Twitter. So lest
Speaker 1: I leave the impression that Roger's bigotry is limited to women,
Speaker 1: Here's a bunch of racist stuff, he said. Stone's tweets
Speaker 1: include attacks like stupid negro, fat negro, arrogant, know at
Speaker 1: all Negro, uncle, Tom man dingo, and house negro. Stone
Speaker 1: tweeted that commenter Roland Martin is a stupid negro and
Speaker 1: a fat negro, commentator Herman Kane is a man dingo,
Speaker 1: and former Representative Alan West is an arrogant, no at
Speaker 1: all negro. He also tweeted that commentator Alsh Arpton, as
Speaker 1: a professional Negro who likes Fried Chicken, asked if former
Speaker 1: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson was an Uncle Tom and
Speaker 1: referred to himself as an inward with a Nixon tattoo.
Speaker 1: He did not use the phrase in word. It was
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable paragraph to state. But this is all stuff
Speaker 1: roger Stone said, mostly about Republicans. He's just the reed him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they reject the mainstream instead. Yeah, mainstream Republicans rejected him.
Speaker 1: And he's a tagging. He's he's a hurt man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a hurt man. And uh. In two
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, he got his chance to push some pain
Speaker 1: back out into the world. That is the year when
Speaker 1: Donald Trump began to execute his campaign run for president. Now,
Speaker 1: roger Stone was reportedly Donald Trump's number one consultant for
Speaker 1: the early stages of his bid. According to Joshua Green,
Speaker 1: the author of Devil's Bargain, a book about the election, quote,
Speaker 1: inside Trump's circle, the power of illegal immigration to manipulate
Speaker 1: popular sentiment was readily parent and his advisor's brainstormed methods
Speaker 1: for keeping their attention andled Boss on message. They needed
Speaker 1: a trick an ammonic device. In the summer of two
Speaker 1: thous fourteen, they found one that clicked. According to Sam Nunberg,
Speaker 1: who worked with Trump during this period, Roger Stone and
Speaker 1: I came up with the idea of the wall, and
Speaker 1: we talked to Steve Bannon about it. It was to
Speaker 1: make sure Trump talked about immigration. Initially, Trump seemed indifferent
Speaker 1: to the idea, but in January two fifteen, he tried
Speaker 1: it out at the Iowa Freedom Summit, a presidential cattle
Speaker 1: call put on by David Bossey's group Citizens United. One
Speaker 1: of his pledges was I will build a wall, and
Speaker 1: the place just went nuts. That's what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: It's like with the socks. Roger knows that's some little
Speaker 1: stick in people's exactly. You gotta drive that. I think
Speaker 1: that is his major contribution. That's why even when he's fired,
Speaker 1: people keep him so. Roger Stone stole his catchphrase about
Speaker 1: Florida from a nineteen forty one novel, oh M Summerset
Speaker 1: man or mong And I don't know how to pronounce it,
Speaker 1: but I've seen that name before. Yet another crime uncovered.
Speaker 1: You shady son of a bit. You know what's funny too,
Speaker 1: This is almost like when you go to jail and
Speaker 1: you don't want anybody to mess with you, so you
Speaker 1: just throw human poop on you and everyone's scared to
Speaker 1: touch you. I think he plays so dirty and so
Speaker 1: gross that people are like, I know he's doing something legal,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to fight with him because he
Speaker 1: fights like a homeless person. Yeah, he's gonna bite and
Speaker 1: scratch and stab, and he's it's it's so bizarre, how
Speaker 1: broken this guy. I didn't think during this conversation I
Speaker 1: would actually feel sorry for this guy, but that's what
Speaker 1: I do. There's a deep core of sadness too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it becomes clear the more you dig into, like what
Speaker 1: he's done his whole life. I think that's the justice.
Speaker 1: He wants us to think he's strong, even calls himself
Speaker 1: a bodybuilder and and tattoos a man's face on his
Speaker 1: back that he thinks it's strong. And really he's just
Speaker 1: this insecure, weak, broken, broken little boy. Yeah. They all
Speaker 1: are at something. Yeah yeah. Now, Stone's time with the
Speaker 1: Trump campaign did not last all that long. In August
Speaker 1: two fifteen, after a performance in one of the Republican
Speaker 1: primary debates that was wrongly considered to be disastrous for
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. You remember that, Yeah, Roger quit or
Speaker 1: was fired. Roger claims he quit. At least Trump says
Speaker 1: that he fired Roger, and Roger says that he quit
Speaker 1: and basically fired Trump from anyway, It's who knows. He
Speaker 1: was getting too much airtime for Trump's taste. It wasn't
Speaker 1: that the hypothesis that might be part of it. And
Speaker 1: it might also be that after that, Roger also thought
Speaker 1: that things were going badly with the campaign and didn't
Speaker 1: want to be attached to it anymore because it looked
Speaker 1: bad back then. For nobody was guessing. Republicans were screaming
Speaker 1: get Trump out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of people
Speaker 1: were angry, so that may have been why that happened.
Speaker 1: He was trying to like anyway, this was not the
Speaker 1: end of the Stone Trump relationship, though, according to one
Speaker 1: version of events, at least Roger Stone was responsible for
Speaker 1: hooking Donald Trump up with Paul Manaford, who at that
Speaker 1: point lived in a Trump Tower but did not actually
Speaker 1: know Donald well. Some people say that Stone is the
Speaker 1: guy who pushed Manafort on Trump basically in order to
Speaker 1: give himself an end with the campaign that he'd probably
Speaker 1: been fired from. If true, this would be an appropriate
Speaker 1: reversal of Roger's agreement to act as Manafort's proxy and
Speaker 1: the Young Republicans so many years before. It's a nice
Speaker 1: little bit of symmetry, and it would be nice if
Speaker 1: the only person either of them is capable of doing
Speaker 1: a single altruistic thing for is the other. If like
Speaker 1: the one nice thing Paul Manaford every did was for
Speaker 1: Roger Stone and vice versa. Like it's funny, you know,
Speaker 1: I think when Manafort got hired, I think in the
Speaker 1: documentary it was Stone who quoted his quote when Manafort
Speaker 1: got hired, was back in the saddle again. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I'm back. He knew that was his way back into
Speaker 1: the campaign. Yeah. And it does seem like and we'll
Speaker 1: see how things go now, but it seems like for
Speaker 1: a while the two were pretty good at being solid
Speaker 1: with each other. You know, the backstab a lot of
Speaker 1: other people, but they were usually on the same side
Speaker 1: of things. Um, when they were both involved in the
Speaker 1: same thing. Some of that maybe that man of for
Speaker 1: it was really more overseas you know, after like the
Speaker 1: eighties particularly, But it's like an episode of Survivor, but
Speaker 1: in d c Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the
Speaker 1: union at everybody else, Yeah, just Roger Stone and Paul
Speaker 1: Manaford against the world. The only smart member of that
Speaker 1: group in the long term turned out to be Black
Speaker 1: who has just got rich and decided not to commit
Speaker 1: more cries. Oh boy. Now, most of what we are
Speaker 1: going to talk about from here on out Roger Stone's
Speaker 1: relationship with Wiki Leaks and the possibly criminal behavior he
Speaker 1: engaged in on behalf of the Trump campaign. All of
Speaker 1: this is very controversial. We don't know exactly what happened yet,
Speaker 1: because obviously the Muller reports not out. There are competing
Speaker 1: versions of events and competing suspicions of how things went down.
Speaker 1: One thing that is crystal clear about this time is
Speaker 1: that Roger Stone was instrumental in bringing Alex Jones and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump together, which again that's why I brought up
Speaker 1: the stuff about conspiracies earlier. He's always had that thing,
Speaker 1: and starting about two and thirteen, he and Alex Jones
Speaker 1: start being buddies and eventually becomes like he's an Info
Speaker 1: Wars employee for like the last three years, so he's
Speaker 1: he's like hosting a show, he's a reporter there he's
Speaker 1: making probably grand a month, and I do want to
Speaker 1: I want to plug quickly here. Knowledge Fight, the podcast
Speaker 1: that talks about Alex Jones shows, just did a fantastic
Speaker 1: episode on all of this. Yeah, if you go to
Speaker 1: Knowledge Fights website and Knowledge Fight, or just look him
Speaker 1: up on on Google. Knowledge Fight the January nineteen episode,
Speaker 1: they're going to do a lot more granular detail about
Speaker 1: this than we're going to because we're kind of covering
Speaker 1: his whole life. They focus more on his shadiness with
Speaker 1: wiki leaks. It's great. I really recommend it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's unclear win exactly Alex and Roger became friends,
Speaker 1: but it's very clear that Roger was the reason that
Speaker 1: Donald Trump sort of got keyed into the fact that
Speaker 1: info Wars existed at all. I don't think I don't
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump was listening to a lot of info
Speaker 1: Wars in the nineties or whenever. Now. In December two fifteen,
Speaker 1: Donald Trump showed up on info Wars and praised Alex
Speaker 1: Jones as having an amazed in reputation. As the two
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen election picked up, steam Stone became a
Speaker 1: more frequent guest on Info Wars. On August four, two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, he showed up as a guest on the
Speaker 1: Info Wars radio show. At this point, Alex Jones was
Speaker 1: telling his listeners that Hillary Clinton was about to resign
Speaker 1: as a presidential candidate under the shame of a massive
Speaker 1: criminal indictment. Now, at this point, a number of hacked
Speaker 1: DNC emails had already been released via wiki leaks. Stone
Speaker 1: claimed on air on August four to know about the
Speaker 1: upcoming release of more hacked DNC emails on wiki leaks.
Speaker 1: He also claimed to have spoken with Donald Trump on
Speaker 1: August three. More recent releases as part of the Mueller
Speaker 1: investigation have shown that on the fourth, the same day
Speaker 1: Stone was on Info Wars, he emailed Trump advisor Sam
Speaker 1: Nunberg and told him he'd had dinner with Julian Assange
Speaker 1: the night before, which, if you're keeping track, would be
Speaker 1: the same day he claimed to have met with Trump.
Speaker 1: So when we talk about evidence of collusion, there is
Speaker 1: some definitely speaking of collusion. This podcast colludes with a
Speaker 1: number of fantastic sponsors that helped keep the lights on
Speaker 1: and allow us to do this show. So please collude
Speaker 1: with us. You would bringing you this information By colluding
Speaker 1: with capitalism to purchase products. All right, we're back and
Speaker 1: uh we are talking about Roger Stone in the election. Now.
Speaker 1: Over the course of two sixteen, Roger Stone repeatedly played
Speaker 1: the role of hype man for Wiki leaks release of
Speaker 1: Democratic campaign documents as well as Clinton advisor John Podesta's emails.
Speaker 1: On Honest one, he tweeted, trust me, it will soon
Speaker 1: be time in the barrel hashtag crooked Hillary. Shortly thereafter,
Speaker 1: Wiki Leaks published a cash of John Podesta's leaked emails.
Speaker 1: Roger frequently spoke on info Wars and wrote articles on
Speaker 1: bright Bart, poo pooing the idea that Russia had anything
Speaker 1: to do with all these hacks and pushing the narrative
Speaker 1: that Goose offer two point oh the person behind the
Speaker 1: DNC hacks was an independent activist, a hero in Stone's telling,
Speaker 1: and not an agent of the Russian government. Now. On
Speaker 1: election night two sixteen, Roger Stone celebrated with his good
Speaker 1: buddy Alex Jones. The two drank champagne and saluted the
Speaker 1: dawn of a brave new era. But for Roger and
Speaker 1: probably for Alex, to the end of the fun times
Speaker 1: was finally nigh. Donald Trump's upset victory got a lot
Speaker 1: of people to start looking much more closely on whether
Speaker 1: or not there had been any collusion with Wiki leaks
Speaker 1: or the Russian government within the Trump campaign. It quickly
Speaker 1: became apparent that Goosefer two point oh was in fact
Speaker 1: a Russian operative. He fucked up and gave investigators the
Speaker 1: digital equivalent of DNA evidence that he was a spy,
Speaker 1: and of course, later leaked chat logs revealed that Roger
Speaker 1: Stone had been communicating with him the same thing happened
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks. It's again still a little bit unclear
Speaker 1: exactly how all of this maps out. It seems like
Speaker 1: what happened is Roger Stone was communicating with a guy
Speaker 1: named Jerome and Corsi, who was one of the major
Speaker 1: origin points for like the Berther bullshit myth thing and
Speaker 1: who also had connections with wiki leaks, and that was
Speaker 1: his go between, and he was sort of working directly
Speaker 1: with wiki leaks that way, and he definitely there's also
Speaker 1: been reports that he was sort of selling himself to
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign since he had been kicked out as
Speaker 1: an advisor as a liaison to Wiki leaks, and was
Speaker 1: coordinating with the campaign, probably with Steve Bannon. That's what
Speaker 1: it looks like was happening, although again it's not exactly known,
Speaker 1: so it looks like, yeah, Roger Stone was working directly
Speaker 1: with Jerome Corsi as well as communicating with Wiki Leaks
Speaker 1: one on one and communicating with Goose for two point
Speaker 1: oh in order to sort of coordinate the release of
Speaker 1: leaked documents with, you know, the presidential campaign to hurt
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. Now, when all of this became the biggest
Speaker 1: news story in the country, which has been for more
Speaker 1: or less the last two years, Roger suddenly started claiming
Speaker 1: that he had not in fact had direct contact with
Speaker 1: Wiki Leaks or Assance, which, of course multiple times during
Speaker 1: the election he had talked about on like radio shows
Speaker 1: and podcasts talking with Wiki leaks and stuff, but he
Speaker 1: had not been consistent about this. But he suddenly started
Speaker 1: lying once the Mueller investigation kicked up, uh, and began
Speaker 1: claiming that rather than talking directly with wick leagues, you're
Speaker 1: communicating and including like through with Jerome Corsi. His contact
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks, he hadn't been including with him directly.
Speaker 1: They just had a friend in common, and Stone claimed
Speaker 1: that that friend was Randy Cretico. Now, which again is
Speaker 1: the exact same thing he did when he got caught
Speaker 1: the last time he did something. These characters come back
Speaker 1: around now. Stone testified to the House Intelligence Committee in
Speaker 1: two thousands seventeen that this was the case, and the
Speaker 1: recent indictment handed down by Bob Mueller makes it clear
Speaker 1: that this was yet another lie. Stone was charged with
Speaker 1: witness tampering for telling Credico things like Stone Wallet plead
Speaker 1: the fifth anything to save the plan. That's a Richard
Speaker 1: Nixon quote, by the way, So when you basically Stone
Speaker 1: lies and says that Credico is his source to Wiki leaks,
Speaker 1: and he's telling Credico, keep this lie going when you
Speaker 1: get in front of the House Intelligence Committee, and his
Speaker 1: way to tell him to commit this federal crime is
Speaker 1: to send him a quote of Nixon telling someone to
Speaker 1: commit a federal crime. It was one of the things
Speaker 1: that Nixon got caught doing and is why he got impeached.
Speaker 1: It's really funny because he also always says history is prologue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Shakespeare pas passed his prologue. And in the tempest in
Speaker 1: the Shakespeare speech, when the guy was saying the character
Speaker 1: was saying that I remember the character. But when he
Speaker 1: was saying that it was a way to excuse murder.
Speaker 1: M hm. This freaking guy, like his code words are
Speaker 1: like so easy to decipher. Yeah, his coword. And this
Speaker 1: is literally another guy committing the same crime he's committing exactly,
Speaker 1: Like he's such a roger don't use that. Don't commit
Speaker 1: crimes through what's I This is a different jump that
Speaker 1: he's made though than the past. Yeah, and this is
Speaker 1: a lot dumber in the past. He also said things
Speaker 1: like if you turned over anything to the FBI, you're
Speaker 1: a fool. He threatened Credit cost service dog Bianca, saying
Speaker 1: he would take that dog away from you. You are
Speaker 1: a rat, a stoolie. You backstab your friends, run your mouth.
Speaker 1: My lawyers are dying to rip you to shreds. I'm
Speaker 1: so ready, let's get it on. Prepared to die expletive now.
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that when questioned about this by Mother Jones,
Speaker 1: Roger Stone stated that his words were being taken out
Speaker 1: of context, and when he said prepared to die, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: he ad meant that. You know, Credico was dealing with cancer.
Speaker 1: He's like he should just really bad lives rotching. So
Speaker 1: he says something it's even worse, like, Oh, I don't
Speaker 1: mean I'm gonna kill him and I mean you guys.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm going to remind him of that
Speaker 1: because I'm a prick, but I'll take his dog. Jesus.
Speaker 1: It's so funny too, because at first I went, Okay,
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't even like animals, he's a dick. And
Speaker 1: then the very next week when the FBI rated his home,
Speaker 1: he's like, the upset my wife, the upset my dogs.
Speaker 1: He's apparently a dog lover, which you know a lot
Speaker 1: of people are. Um, he didn't say I'll kill your dog,
Speaker 1: so maybe he was just threatening to abductor man's service animal.
Speaker 1: Fair enough. Like, you know what's different now is the
Speaker 1: old campaign was all lie by any means necessary. I'll
Speaker 1: do whatever I need to do to have this side
Speaker 1: of the country win. Now he's like, I don't care
Speaker 1: if it's another country. Yeah, that wants as long as
Speaker 1: I don't get long as I don't get in trouble.
Speaker 1: So before it was like i'll have the conservative side
Speaker 1: versus the liberal side. Now it's like i'll have an
Speaker 1: enemy of the nation. Yeah. This guy's he's gone from
Speaker 1: from a corrupt person to a trader. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: to a trader who, like in the months leading up
Speaker 1: to this on info Wars, would regularly urge President Trump
Speaker 1: to essentially assume dictatorial powers and shut down the FBI
Speaker 1: investigation and stuff. And it's like, that's a line, Roger.
Speaker 1: That's it answers the question for a lot of people
Speaker 1: that are like for an outsider, Trump really knows how
Speaker 1: to play the game. Trump doesn't know how to play
Speaker 1: the game. He just knows how to find shady people
Speaker 1: in sunny places who know how to play the game.
Speaker 1: He knows when to listen. And when you're in real estate,
Speaker 1: nobody cares because everyone in the real estate business is
Speaker 1: a criminal um and it's fine. We're fine with that
Speaker 1: for some reason. Not my real and long beach Susie.
Speaker 1: Thanks Susy. Sorry for drying a mustache on your memo
Speaker 1: notepad that I got for free. She's strangling a dog
Speaker 1: right now. Real estate agents hit us up on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Real estate agents, tell us about your favorite crimes that
Speaker 1: you've committed. You're all Nazis. You're all Nazis. All real
Speaker 1: estate agents are Nazis, is the stance of this podcast. Now,
Speaker 1: enough of the claims roger Stone made before Congress were
Speaker 1: proven false. That he has been charged with at least
Speaker 1: five counts of making false statements during his testimony. And
Speaker 1: this is, in fact, other than witness tampering like this,
Speaker 1: that's all of the indictment so far have been like
Speaker 1: you lied and you threatened to somebody who was going
Speaker 1: out like a federal witness, which you can't do. Now.
Speaker 1: It appears that the main downfall for roger Stone that
Speaker 1: got him busted by the FBI was his unjustified trust
Speaker 1: in the program What'sapp. Here's a quote from Ours Technica quote.
Speaker 1: He believed that WhatsApp, which he used as a secure
Speaker 1: phone line and for messaging, would protect his communications from
Speaker 1: the eyes of and instigators forgetting that the people he
Speaker 1: was talking to could just show the messages to Mower's
Speaker 1: team and a grand jury. He also left an email
Speaker 1: trail of his alleged misdeeds, seemingly spanning a mile wide.
Speaker 1: After Wiki Leaks released email stolen from the Democratic National
Speaker 1: Committee on July two thous and sixteen, quote, a senior
Speaker 1: Trump campaign official was directed to contact Stone about any
Speaker 1: additional releases and what other damaging information Wiki Leaks had
Speaker 1: regarding the Clinton campaign. The indictment states in return, Stone
Speaker 1: reached out to Multiple Association in an attempt to communicate
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks and Julian Assange and obtain further Clinton
Speaker 1: related emails. On July two thousand sixteen, Stone emailed Corsi.
Speaker 1: The subject line was get to Julian Assange. The message read,
Speaker 1: get to Julian Assange at Ecuadorian Embassy in London and
Speaker 1: get depending Wiki Leaks emails they deal with Foundation allegedly, Really, Jed,
Speaker 1: don't leave text evidence of your crimes everywhere, Roger, and
Speaker 1: then threatened the people who you have an equal copy
Speaker 1: of all of the evidence of your crimes. Don't do that,
Speaker 1: you know. And I as a kid once I killed
Speaker 1: a cockroach and I left his body there for the
Speaker 1: other cockroaches to see. And that's what I want him
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, I want him to be that cockroach.
Speaker 1: I want him to be a cautionary tale. I'm glad
Speaker 1: he's getting caught. I want him and man afford, I
Speaker 1: want a lot of cockroaches strung up on a lot
Speaker 1: of walls because I'm worried about that. What they're inspiring,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, That's why they've got to
Speaker 1: get and that's why whenever people it's the same reason
Speaker 1: like whenever people are like some ninety six year old
Speaker 1: Nazi gets found out and they're like trying to extra
Speaker 1: out into Germany and people like, well he's nineties six.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, take him to court, let him die
Speaker 1: on a plane, make it, make it miserable, make everyone
Speaker 1: else know this is what happens when you do crimes
Speaker 1: like this, Like, we'll get you eventually. Yeah. Now, this
Speaker 1: is the point at which I think we finally get
Speaker 1: an answer to the running question for this whole episode.
Speaker 1: Is Roger Stone actually a political mastermind and evil genius
Speaker 1: or did he just associate himself with a successful people
Speaker 1: and do a good job of hyping up his BS contributions.
Speaker 1: His behavior in two thousand eighteen was definitely the behavior
Speaker 1: of a cornered man, growing increasingly panicked about coming le
Speaker 1: will smackdowns. His appearances on Info Wars grew more common.
Speaker 1: He would regularly attack the Muller investigation as being part
Speaker 1: of a deep state cabal, and frequently begged President Trump
Speaker 1: to make use of extreme executive powers to fire Rod
Speaker 1: Rosenstein and shut the whole thing down. It also seems
Speaker 1: to me, at least, that stones rhetoric grew more apocalyptic
Speaker 1: as the noose tightened. Here's a clip from him in
Speaker 1: late two thousand eighteen. You will have a spasm of
Speaker 1: violence in this country, an insurrection like you've never saved.
Speaker 1: No question you think if you go in page like,
Speaker 1: the sides are heavily armed, my friend, Yes, absolutely, this
Speaker 1: is not nineteen seventy four. They the people will not
Speaker 1: stand for impeachment. A politician who votes for it would
Speaker 1: be endangering their own life. There will be violence on
Speaker 1: both sides. Yeah, it's threatening people. He's threatening an apocalyptic
Speaker 1: civil war and saying any politician who voted for it
Speaker 1: would have their lives threatened. Yeah, like it's he's sending.
Speaker 1: Those are dog whistle messages. He's standing. Threats are threats
Speaker 1: not even done. It's a fucking pigs e or thrown
Speaker 1: right at like a bunch of I don't know how
Speaker 1: to finish that analogy, but you get my point. Most
Speaker 1: of Stone's media appearances over the last year seemed to
Speaker 1: have been a way for him to advertise his go
Speaker 1: fund me legal defense fund. This fund has raised so
Speaker 1: far about seventy eight thousand dollars in the month that's
Speaker 1: been up. Michael Caputa, a former Trump campaign adviser and
Speaker 1: friend of Roger Stone, actually started the campaign. He claims
Speaker 1: that Stone has lost everything in the ongoing legal battle.
Speaker 1: Politico noted that the month before Stone posted an Instagram
Speaker 1: picture of himself on a beach, smoking a cigar and
Speaker 1: wearing designer sunglasses, So probably a lie. Like everything else
Speaker 1: Rogerstone has ever said. One group at least has stuck
Speaker 1: with Roger Stone in the wake of his indictment and arrest,
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys. Stone started using them as his personal
Speaker 1: security for events in two thousand seventeen and eventually went
Speaker 1: through what they call their first degree initiation. He just
Speaker 1: enco to Maya was the day to do this, and
Speaker 1: their whole initiation is around like claiming that, like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to apologize for creating the world as a
Speaker 1: Western man. I don't know. I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: coincidence that he picked Senco to Mile. I think they're
Speaker 1: anything they can do to be a little bit more racist.
Speaker 1: It's really funny. Even even the idea of a white
Speaker 1: race is a lie. Yeah, there is no white race.
Speaker 1: It was a construct. No such thing. Hang out with
Speaker 1: a Russian, hang with an Irishman. It's not the same thing.
Speaker 1: And the and the Proud Boys are a little smarter
Speaker 1: than talking about the white race. They claimed Western civilization.
Speaker 1: That's their catch all, because then you don't have to
Speaker 1: all be white, but you can still essentially sta welcome
Speaker 1: to them. Then embrace your Middle Eastern side, because that's
Speaker 1: what Iran is. Iran is supposed to be the birthplace
Speaker 1: of the real white people. That's why it sounds like Arian.
Speaker 1: It's Iran. So so get your white loafers out and
Speaker 1: your Capri one hundreds. Yeah, and start calling people my
Speaker 1: friend if you really want to be the origin of
Speaker 1: white oh man, and get way better cooking lamb, way
Speaker 1: better at cooking. We cannot cook a goddamn lamb in
Speaker 1: this country to save our lives. It's just it's a trick.
Speaker 1: It's all a trick. And it's when a powerful white
Speaker 1: man tells a poor white man that he's just like him,
Speaker 1: it's hypnotizing. Well, that's exactly Roger Stone talks about as
Speaker 1: a young man, being like, I'm going to be the
Speaker 1: bridge between working class white people and rich white people.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what he's always been about. Yeah, so of
Speaker 1: course he would like the Proud Boys. One prominent Proud
Speaker 1: Boy is currently selling Roger Stone did Nothing Wrong t shirts.
Speaker 1: When he was arraigned last Monday, several Proud Boys provided
Speaker 1: an escort enchanted their vocal support of the man. We
Speaker 1: even't talked much about Roger stones style obsession in this podcast.
Speaker 1: I just it's not really funny. Like I read a
Speaker 1: bunch of what he wrote. It's just like pretentious stuff
Speaker 1: for people who care about suits and whatnot. Which if
Speaker 1: that's your thing, that's fine. Everybody's got to have a thing. Um,
Speaker 1: But there is a way in which that became a
Speaker 1: source of some shot in freuda for me. Starting I
Speaker 1: think in the Stone became increasingly enamored with ostentatious outfits,
Speaker 1: generally dressing like someone who lives to fight Batman. He
Speaker 1: became the Daily Callers men's style correspondent and also writes
Speaker 1: a ten best and worst dress list every year, and
Speaker 1: most of these columns. Stones header image is a picture
Speaker 1: of himself dressed as and wielding a gun like James Bond.
Speaker 1: He clearly views himself as a slick, badass political operator
Speaker 1: and wants others to see him that way too. That
Speaker 1: reputation has been punctured by a long series of dumb mistakes,
Speaker 1: many of them in his appearances on info Wars. Mistakes
Speaker 1: like claiming exiled Chinese businessmen Guo Wan Gui had been
Speaker 1: convicted of financial crimes and donated illegally to Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: and Steve Bannon. None of this was true. Stone and
Speaker 1: Info Wars were sued for a hundred million dollars, and
Speaker 1: last year Roger Stone was forced to make an on
Speaker 1: air public apology for having failed to do proper research.
Speaker 1: He's almost seventy. Yeah, that's why I keep reminding myself
Speaker 1: the way he behaves. Yeah, he's a grandfather. He is
Speaker 1: a grandfather. He's almost seventy. And this is how he acts,
Speaker 1: This is how he behaves. This is the philosophy he
Speaker 1: has that he's a spy and a badass and uses
Speaker 1: all this tough guy language, and really he's the one
Speaker 1: who sees himself naked and weak and his bones getting
Speaker 1: softer and his muscles starting to sag. He can't beat time, No,
Speaker 1: nobody can. Nobody can Patrick Stewart other than Patrick, you know,
Speaker 1: he's really nail time hate. Maybe a greater motivator. But
Speaker 1: love makes your skin look better when you get older. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: he looks so good. He looks great. Yeah. Now, despite
Speaker 1: all of Roger Stone's claims to being a sly badass,
Speaker 1: brilliant Nixonian style political operator, Roger Stone has proven to
Speaker 1: just be a bad criminal who got lucky for a while.
Speaker 1: He's not a badass, He's just bad. In the wake
Speaker 1: of his indictment, Roger Stone has whined incessantly about having
Speaker 1: roughly as much force used against him in his apprehension
Speaker 1: as a small time pot dealer in Texas. Stone complained
Speaker 1: that he wasn't called ahead of time to give him
Speaker 1: a chance to dress up and look his best for
Speaker 1: the cameras. Instead, he was photographed in a simple blue
Speaker 1: polo shirt. When he was released later that day, he
Speaker 1: had to give his press conference looking like a normal
Speaker 1: elderly man and not the penguin. It is a moment
Speaker 1: of great schadenfreude for me, and we are going to
Speaker 1: in the episode by playing the clip of his press conference.
Speaker 1: Love it and arrested it defined schadenfreude. I'm taking pleasure
Speaker 1: in the misfortune of others. German like that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a great word. You here, Thank you well, thank you.
Speaker 1: As I have always said, the only thing worse than
Speaker 1: being talked about is not being talked about. Jafter a
Speaker 1: two year inquisition, the charges today relate in no way
Speaker 1: to rushing collusion, wicky leaks, collaboration, or any under illegal
Speaker 1: act and connection for the twixteen campaign. I am falsely
Speaker 1: accused of making false statements during my testimony to the
Speaker 1: House Intelligence Committee. That is incorrect. Any any error I
Speaker 1: made in my testimony would be both immaterial and without intent.
Speaker 1: All right, I want that on my iTunes. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it feels good, Right, it feels good. It's like squeegee
Speaker 1: for your soul. So it makes me believe in God
Speaker 1: and Santa Claus. Lock him up, Lock him Up sounds
Speaker 1: Oh it's so nice. Oh it's like a pizza after
Speaker 1: smoking weed. So satisfying. I'm not normally a big fan
Speaker 1: of chanting as part of a crowd. That would have
Speaker 1: been a fun crowd to chant as part of and
Speaker 1: believe me as an Arab in America. The only time,
Speaker 1: the only time I like people chanting Usa, Usa, Usa
Speaker 1: is during the Olympics. Yeah. Outside of that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're chanting lock him up at Roger Stone. Man. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's so good. It's like emotional bubble wrap, so pleased
Speaker 1: to eat it all. Yeah, it does a lead down.
Speaker 1: Give me the bread to sop up the sauce. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that tastes good. That tastes good. At the end of
Speaker 1: this this gross tale Shotenfreudreud. Yeah, taking pleasure, pleasure in
Speaker 1: the misfortune of others. And like great German word word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're really great at making single words for things.
Speaker 1: Although this is like the joy of seeing justice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a little bit like this is justified the beginning
Speaker 1: of it anyway. Yeah, it's the start of a process
Speaker 1: of justice that hopefully leads him dying in a cell. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in rehabilitation. But if you're seventy
Speaker 1: and doing the ship Roger Stone has been doing for
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, I couldn't agree more. Probably
Speaker 1: not gonna get rehabbed, be not allowed in society anymore,
Speaker 1: save with Paul Manafort. You know, if you're if your
Speaker 1: crime is selling drugs or even beating someone, even even
Speaker 1: accidentally killing an individual, even killing someone in in the
Speaker 1: in the throes of a sudden rage, I believe in
Speaker 1: some sort of like rehabilitation for you, but if your
Speaker 1: crime is conspiring to thwart the liberty of millions of
Speaker 1: people around the world, I don't believe in rehabilitating that.
Speaker 1: It's it's a crazy thing to see someone who came
Speaker 1: that was like, you know, I came from a dad
Speaker 1: that was abusive, and he had PTSD from war, and
Speaker 1: I had a drinking problem. He had everything against him.
Speaker 1: But I could always look back and say, I understand
Speaker 1: the dynamics of abuse, so I understand that he was
Speaker 1: abused to and then the guy that bit him was
Speaker 1: like a vampire. And then I had to go to
Speaker 1: therapy so I could be like one of the vampires
Speaker 1: on Twilight, Like there was like, sure there was a cause,
Speaker 1: there was an origin, and that's why you're great at baseball.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But with him, you just look at this
Speaker 1: and I still at the end of it, even if
Speaker 1: they're satisfaction, I just go, why it's a sad story?
Speaker 1: Is it usually is with these guys? Yah? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: there's really like it's a man who I don't think
Speaker 1: ever had anything at the center of himself that he
Speaker 1: was proud of. So he was proud of his ability
Speaker 1: to do things for other people he admired whether and
Speaker 1: at first people who didn't know him, like when he's
Speaker 1: he's lying about Nixon to so that he can get
Speaker 1: you know, his class to vote for JFK. And then
Speaker 1: he gradually gets like the first one of these guys
Speaker 1: that he works for that he gets any work close
Speaker 1: to Richard Nixon. He just loves the rest of his
Speaker 1: life because Nixon spent time with him, Like he wasn't
Speaker 1: a part of Nixon's staff, but they hung out together
Speaker 1: and stuff, and so I really do you see he
Speaker 1: doesn't say a lot about it other than like fawning
Speaker 1: praise for Nition, But you see pictures of Nixon and
Speaker 1: Roger Stone, and he very much has that doting son
Speaker 1: looking and even his office is like like a shrine,
Speaker 1: shrine to Richard Nixon Nixon. It's so crazy. It would
Speaker 1: even be one thing like a guy like L B. J.
Speaker 1: Who like killed a lot of people in Vietnam. But
Speaker 1: you could also be like, well, but then there's the
Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act, and like, I can see how someone
Speaker 1: could like, even with this guy's really problematic legacy, I
Speaker 1: could see how someone who worked for him could be
Speaker 1: still loyal to that memory Nixon and and some of
Speaker 1: the stuff and some of the stuff he kept was
Speaker 1: like neg anti Nixon stuff. That shows he just doesn't
Speaker 1: care about he just bad about. Yeah, he just wants
Speaker 1: attention because again his parents whenever. I don't know, there's
Speaker 1: always a thin line in this show between trying to
Speaker 1: give it a tail history of these people in psychoanalyzing them.
Speaker 1: You can't avoid it entirely though, when you read quotes
Speaker 1: like how Roger describes his childhood and then just see
Speaker 1: what his adult life is. I mean, his life couldn't
Speaker 1: have been easy. He was a child with doll hair.
Speaker 1: Yeah that is that is a child bodybuilder with a
Speaker 1: Nixon child. I just imagine a shrunk version of him.
Speaker 1: That's it. He's always been that guy. He was always
Speaker 1: had that tattoo, and I was back even he was breastfeeding.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the great forever untold stories of
Speaker 1: history will be the sheer impact and damage that insecure
Speaker 1: male egos have had in our society, even in places
Speaker 1: where you wouldn't expect it. You wouldn't expect Dwight D.
Speaker 1: Eisenhower didn't give off a lot of impulses of being
Speaker 1: an insecure man. But then you see what he was
Speaker 1: doodling when we overthrew Guatemala, when he heard that, like
Speaker 1: he'd successfully instituted a coup in this country, and he
Speaker 1: drew a picture of himself young and swollen, like muscular,
Speaker 1: next to a battleship flexing, and it's like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: you had some issues. That's not normal, that's weird. Our
Speaker 1: whole lives. We hear how how hard it is for
Speaker 1: women that they lose their beauty, but we don't talk
Speaker 1: about fading power. Yeah, you know, like I grew up
Speaker 1: in a really rough neighborhood. Nice to be a scary
Speaker 1: looking guy, and I'm sleeved in tattoos, But I'm a
Speaker 1: nicer person now and I go to go to therapy
Speaker 1: the But the one thing I miss is when I
Speaker 1: walked down the street, that people move away from me
Speaker 1: because you're like, you're big and muscular and stuff, And
Speaker 1: there's something about that. As much as I hated who
Speaker 1: I was back then, I missed that feeling. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: human pit bull. There's not a lot of training in
Speaker 1: our society for young men to get used to the
Speaker 1: fact that they will someday not have the kind of
Speaker 1: physical power they had. This is something I really admired
Speaker 1: my grand before. My grandpa was a really big guy
Speaker 1: six ft five, six ft six something like that, and
Speaker 1: he was he was military most of his life, fought
Speaker 1: in Korea. Was like a very big, very imposing man.
Speaker 1: But the last ten or fifteen years of his life,
Speaker 1: he was just completely debilitated with Parkinson's, couldn't really move.
Speaker 1: But I never got never, ever, ever, of all the
Speaker 1: of the emotions that I saw from him, none of
Speaker 1: them was anger. None of them was like lashing out
Speaker 1: at people over the fact that I could tell he
Speaker 1: was frustrated obviously not being able to control his body anymore.
Speaker 1: Um And I don't think a guy like Roger Stone
Speaker 1: or a guy like Dwight D. Eisenhower or whatever, I
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think they got that at any point,
Speaker 1: that attitude of like, Okay, you're going to be able
Speaker 1: to control the world around you less as you get older,
Speaker 1: because that's just life. And that's why we have society
Speaker 1: and civilization. We all work together to take care of
Speaker 1: each other because when we get weaker, we need more help.
Speaker 1: You know. They don't get that, And that's where libertarians
Speaker 1: come from the dangerous language in our society. This is
Speaker 1: a friend of mine reminded me the other night, like
Speaker 1: boys don't cry? Is it phrase? It turns us in
Speaker 1: a men that don't talk. It's like women grow up
Speaker 1: in possible physical standards, but really men grow up with
Speaker 1: impossible emotional ones. Yeah. And when something bad happens a
Speaker 1: little boy, if he's not able to talk, can he
Speaker 1: turn into something evil and dark and twisted and upside down?
Speaker 1: If the alternative which is admitting like weakness and uh
Speaker 1: in pain and a need for help? If that is
Speaker 1: literally unthinkable because of the society he's been raised in,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, what else does he do but like get violent? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is like a worldwide problem. I Agreeviously, I agree.
Speaker 1: I went to college in Sweden and I saw a
Speaker 1: movie there. It was Judge dread Ship, the original, the original.
Speaker 1: I was going to college so its class wasn't starting
Speaker 1: for three weeks, so we went to see Jack Dread
Speaker 1: and it was rated X and I was like, alone's
Speaker 1: making porn. So then I wasn't going to watch it,
Speaker 1: but a bunch of people were going in. I'm like, screwed,
Speaker 1: I'll go in. I go regular movie. Two weeks later,
Speaker 1: I see a movie with a Swedish friend, a Swedish
Speaker 1: movie rated PG, and his nephews next to us, and
Speaker 1: a guy pulls down his pants and his penises out
Speaker 1: there and he's shaking it around and and I'm in shock,
Speaker 1: and the little kids just eating Swedish Swedish fish. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just a penis, just a penis. And then my
Speaker 1: friend goes, oh, I forgot you from America. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: guys rate your movies by sex. We rate our movies
Speaker 1: by violence. Yeah, And I just felt like a monkey. No.
Speaker 1: And it's it makes more sense, Yeah, it really does.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of I mean, we could, we could,
Speaker 1: we could go down this rabbit hole for forever. So
Speaker 1: we're well off. I mean, don't apologize because it's it's
Speaker 1: a subject that's never not interesting to me. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's the difference between uh as a little kid, I
Speaker 1: I started shooting guns when I was six or seven.
Speaker 1: My uncle came over and he taught me how to shoot,
Speaker 1: and we we we did some hunting and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's unhealthy, but I think playing
Speaker 1: with guns, the way I played with guns as a
Speaker 1: little kid was unhealthy. I think that's bad for you.
Speaker 1: I think that like fetishization of violence and power and
Speaker 1: then coming into a world and I think there's this
Speaker 1: I think video games give it to you too, where
Speaker 1: you get used to in this one little aspect of
Speaker 1: your life, this fantasy aspect, having all this control and
Speaker 1: being able to be the arbiter of who lives and
Speaker 1: dies and all this stuff, and you go into the
Speaker 1: real world where you have none of that control because
Speaker 1: it's the world and there's other people doing their own
Speaker 1: things and you can't just be buying. That's where the
Speaker 1: all right comes from. That like dichotomy, that like mental disconnect.
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think people masturbate to the
Speaker 1: alt right the way people who don't have sex masturbate
Speaker 1: to porn stars. Yeah, they're behaving in a way and
Speaker 1: doing things that I can't do, but I wish I can. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's that. That's why these guys focus on Nazis or whatever.
Speaker 1: Who just guy got rid of all the people they
Speaker 1: don't like, because all these little kids in their rooms
Speaker 1: just have a bunch of hate for people who won't
Speaker 1: go away, the way their enemies and the video game.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, And I guess that's why Roger Stone embraced
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys and the Alt Rights so definitively, because
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, he didn't have video
Speaker 1: games to grow up with. But he is that guy.
Speaker 1: He is that guy wearing fancy suits and calling his
Speaker 1: suspenders braces so that he can be better than everybody
Speaker 1: and control his world more. We brought it back around.
Speaker 1: We brought it back around. You're not You're a poet
Speaker 1: to me. You want to plug your plug doubles. Sure,
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a live comedy with a political bent,
Speaker 1: you could find all my live shows in and around
Speaker 1: l A and around the country at tamer Kittan dot com.
Speaker 1: T A m e r k A t t a
Speaker 1: n my podcast as they tried to bury us UM.
Speaker 1: Every week we have a new American origin story from
Speaker 1: a different immigrant. And I'm tamer Cat on all things
Speaker 1: social media and you can find me on the twitts,
Speaker 1: the tweet at I right, okay, that's me on the
Speaker 1: on the twarts. And you can find this podcast on
Speaker 1: the internet at Behind the Bastards dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us on the social meds at at Bastards pod.
Speaker 1: You can buy a shirt. You can buy a cut
Speaker 1: very cool shirts by thank You very Great Shirts. You
Speaker 1: can buy scale models of the spaceship from Aliens, all
Speaker 1: from t public dot com, all branded with our don't
Speaker 1: tell James Cameron that it's very illegal, but for a
Speaker 1: limited time, until we get a takedown request, we will
Speaker 1: be selling all of that stuff. James Cameron has sex
Speaker 1: in bikinies really well, Roger Stone said it. Oh well,
Speaker 1: I mean then it's gotta be true. It's gotta be true. Well,
Speaker 1: let's all leave you guys on that, on that absolutely
Speaker 1: true note from from our but you Roger Stone m