WEBVTT - Part Two: Roger Stone: Evil Genius or Sad, Broken Boy? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:08.160 M It's me Robert with the show Evans Behind the Bastards. 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:10.159 This is the podcast that this is where we talk 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.960 about the bad people. Sophie, you look very confused. Uh, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.840 they can't all be what's cracking life? Have us? You 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.239 know we're not all They're not all going to be perfect. 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:23.639 I am Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, the 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.599 show we tell you everything you don't know about the 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.760 very worst people in all the history. My guest for 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:31.400 part two, as with part one is Tamma Kaitany. What 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.200 are you doing. I'm doing great. I'm enjoying the conversation. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:36.240 Are you ready to learn a little bit more about 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.720 Roger Stone. I'm ready to learn more and ready to 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.280 sleep less easy. Yeah, well that is the Roger Stone guarantee. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.120 So one of the reasons I might believe the claim 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.520 that Roger Stone was a major influence on Trump's mind 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:49.599 is the fact that he and Donald Trump really do 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.920 have quite a long history of working together. Despite Donald 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.160 Trump's two twelve comments that Stone was a stone cold loser, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.160 he was happy to continue to work with the ban 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.120 after his reform part the candidacy failed in two thousand. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.440 While he was helping George W. Bush and Florida. Roger 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:06.399 Stone also took time to help Donald Trump with a 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.000 new pet project, a grassroots anti gambling campaign. It was 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.680 targeted at the Mohawk Nation. The tribe had opened a 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:14.840 casino on their land in New York State and planned 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:17.640 to open another casino in the Catskills. At the time, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.840 Donald Trump owned three casinos in Atlantic City, the Northeast 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.560 traditional gambling hup. Clearly, the Mohawk Nation represented a threat 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.040 to this earnings of Donald Trump. The ad Stone designed 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:31.200 arm pretty on the edge as far as racism goes. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:32.680 I've got a clip of one of them here which 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.200 will have up on the side behind the Bastards dot com. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.360 It says, in big letters, drug dealing at Monticello or 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.640 Monticello whatever, Thomas Jefferson's creepy house. And it's got like 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.000 a picture of like a needle and lines of cocaine 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.959 and like a baggy of drugs. And then it says, quote, 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.920 the St. Regis Mohawk Indian tribe proposes to open a 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.880 gambling casino at the Monticello Racetrack in Sullivan County. How 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.000 much do you really know about the St. Regis Mohawk Indians. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.160 According to The New York Times, US and Canadian law 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.280 enforcement officials broke up the biggest cocaine trafficking ring in 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.280 northern New York, operating on the fourteen thousand acres St. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.800 Regis Mohawk Reservation. Twenty six people were arrested. Police also 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.680 confiscated nineteen shotguns and handguns. And it goes on like 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.880 this saying Indians are criminals, that's the and fear among 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.160 their just like the border crossing where they use pictures 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.040 of people crossing the border in Spain. Yeah, it just 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.760 lies about women being duct taped and stuff. Now, this 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:30.680 this ad, which is pretty offensive, is noted on the 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.480 bottom as a project of the New York Institute for 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.680 Law and Society. Have you ever heard of the New 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.040 York Institute for Law in Society. Nope? Well, it claimed 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.640 to be a grassroots organization made up of twelve thousand 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.080 pro family donors who just you know, they don't like 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.640 gambling and they just don't one any more casinos in 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.480 their neighborhood. The reality is that you could probably have 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.600 counted the actual number of donors using one hand. Donald 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.440 Trump put up virtually all of the money somewhere around 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.600 one point five million dollars. Trump signed off on the 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.760 ads and the language used in them, and paid the 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.760 bills for the private eyes Stone hired to surveill the tribe. 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.359 The whole operation was Roger's plan because this organization violated 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:10.960 New York laws on lobbying, because you're not allowed to 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.720 pretend that something has a bunch of funders when it's 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:15.799 just one guy who's doing it so that his own 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.320 casinos don't have competition. You're not supposed to do that. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.880 So the state investigated. They wound up sitting down with 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.680 Roger Stone and interviewing him. Here's the l A Times quote. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.560 Stone told state investigators that he thought the public might 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.280 pay attention to a pro family group, but not to Trump, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.079 allowed and longtime critic of Native American gambling, who was 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.320 trying to stay off competition for his three casinos in 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.480 Atlantic City. You could hide Trump's actions from the public. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.160 The investigators grilled Stone, And you did that over and 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.880 over again, yes, Stone answered each time, finally adding nothing 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.440 is wrong with that. By the way, there actually was 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.440 something wrong with that. Trump and or Stone were fined 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.800 two and fifty thousand dollars for breaking the law and 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.280 required to pay more than thirty dollars to run statements 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:58.960 in Albany area newspapers. Yeah, it's just nothing for them. Yeah, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.720 this is the the text of the statement. Donald Trump, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.480 Roger Stone, and Thomas Hunter apologize if anyone was misled 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.240 concerning the production and funding of the lobbying effort. They 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.760 did not apologize for the ads content. Now, over the 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.960 next fifteen years there were dozens and probably hundreds of 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.000 other stories like that. Roger Stone developed a special hatred 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.920 for Elliot Spitzer, Attorney General of New York from thousand 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:22.320 and six and then governor of the state and two 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.279 thousand seven. Now, Elliott was born rich like a shocking 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.080 number of US politicians, and his father had pumped millions 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.080 of dollars into his career. Back in the mid nineties, 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:33.120 right around the time Elliott was elected governor, he threatened 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.040 to release records about Republican Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.599 There was basically like a rumor that Bruno had been 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.560 using state aircraft to aid in his re election campaign, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.160 and Spitzer was going to like release records that would 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.960 prove that or not. And I think Bruno was eventually 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.440 found not guilty of that, I'm not sure, but he 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.760 was also later found taking a bribe and then got 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.040 off on like a technicality, but totally received like four 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.880 hundred thousand dollars from some guy anyway. So so Joe Bruno, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.120 Republican Senate majority a leader of New York, did not 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.560 like Elliot Spitzer. These guys were at each other's throats, 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.000 and in order to get back at his political enemy 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.560 and to distract from his own corruption charges, Joe Bruno 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.279 called up Roger Stone and offered him twenty thousand dollars 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:16.000 a month to end Elliot Spitzer's career. Roger gleefully dove 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.240 into this effort to destroy another person. One June morning 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.600 in two thousand seven, Eliot's eighty three year old father, Bernard, 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.599 who suffered from Parkinson's, woke up to find this message 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.360 on his answering machine. This is a message for Bernard Spitzer. 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.520 You will be subpoena to testify before the Senate Committee 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.919 on Investigations on your shady campaign loans. You will be 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.120 compelled by the Senate Sergeant at Arms. If you resist 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.760 the subpoena, you will be arrested and brought to Albany, 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.240 And there's not a goddamn thing your phony psycho piece 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.239 of ships son can do about it. Bernie, your phony 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.240 loans are about to catch up with you. You will 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.720 be forced to tell the truth, and the fact that 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.719 your son is a pathological liar will be known to all. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.760 So uh yeah, by the way, that is when I 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.159 quoted in the first episode Donald Trump calling him a 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.200 loser and saying he's a liar and everything, that's why 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.560 because actually Donald Trump liked Elliot Spitzer's dad, and it 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.640 was like, actually, like Donald Trump was morally offended by 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.200 this message. It's just that's a hard line to him, 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.120 and it's pretty gnarly to an eighty three year old man. Yeah, 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.880 an ill who is the father of the guy you 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.120 don't like and attack him that way? Who you got 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.280 paid tonight? You know, Like, yeah, he didn't like him, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.279 but it's like his job getting paid to destroy his son, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.840 not his dad. Like, how does that help you deal 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.960 with Elliot Spitzer? He's just a gross person. Now Roger 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:53.920 claims that that's not him. We're gonna dig into that 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.599 a lot of here. That's as much his suits are him. 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:00.400 That's a pinstriped voice. I will let you know. Um well, 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:02.680 we'll put in a link to that particular audio clip 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:06.440 on the side it. It includes, after the voicemail, several 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:10.000 clips of just Roger talking for yourself. That's fucking Roger Stone. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:13.480 But like Bernard Spitzer hired a p I who traced 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:15.720 the call back to Roger's apartment and stuff like, it's 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:20.520 it's definitely Roger Stone unless you're Roger Stone. Now, Roger 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.800 has always denied making that call. He has in some 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:27.120 recent interviews quately said it does sound a lot like me, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.680 but he blamed it at the time on former stand 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.280 up comedian and radio host Randy Cretico. Now we're gonna 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.400 be talking about Randy Cretico a little bit later today 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.280 to yeah, ready, Credico was like a comedian. He was 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.320 on like Leno sometimes he did like improv and he 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:46.480 Stone was basically like, he's so good at doing fake voices. 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.360 He pretended to be this guy and this guy it's 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.800 clearly him pretending to be me. And Credico was like, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.720 I haven't even talked to Roger in years. Why would 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.080 I do this like which? And why would you do 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.480 something so mean? And even like a comic it be 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.160 one thing to be like, maybe this comedian called up 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.080 the governor of New York to leave him a shitty 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.640 messages someone else. Okay, I can imagine that happening, like 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:11.360 Obie and Anthony did ship, but his dad like why 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.240 and there was no There's no value in it at all. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:19.640 It's just cruelty. Yeah. Now, Stone and Credico had met 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.440 back in two thousand three, and Randy had introduced Roger 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.960 to Al Sharpton. Sharpton had hired Stone to help with 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.880 his two thousand four presidential run, probably in the hope 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.600 that Sharpton's campaign would take votes away from John Kerry. 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.520 Roger would later tell the Washington Post quote credit co 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:35.800 became convinced that he should get paid for introducing me 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.959 to Sharpton. He refused to do so. Stone continues because 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.199 while Credico is a cocaine addict, and Stone knew that 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:43.120 any money he gave to the guy would go quote 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:47.240 up his nose. So Roger Stone leaves this really gross message. 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:49.960 It's obviously him. He blames it on a friend of 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:51.680 his that he hasn't talked to in years, and also 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.840 says the guy's a coke addict. Now This may sound 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:59.480 a little bit familiar to Well, but also Roger Stone, 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.720 when it came out that he had been putting up 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.520 sex ads in his magazine, is like, no, it's my housekeeper. 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.559 Like and Trump thrown his own his own son in 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.880 law under the bus. No one's sake. No one is safe. Yeah, 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.920 it's a gross way to live, it really is. And 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.720 the only way you can live that way is if 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.679 you have more money than God. You know what kills 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:19.719 me is all my life. I've grown up watching these 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.520 Hollywood films and I always just a sense of justice 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.640 is what kept me happy. Yeah, believing in things like karma, 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:28.800 believing that things come around. This is a movie where 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.600 the bad guy win is winning so far, and like, 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.079 why is this movie so long? Why? Why is this 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.200 movie my entire life? Is he going to get it? Man? 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.360 But I've ever seen a guy in the middle of 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.959 a horror movie. It's such a jerky like I can't 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.280 wait till he dies because I know it's going to 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:47.920 be something horrific. The Paul Manafort story has been there 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.880 for me because just like seeing him denied to wear 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:55.160 a suit recently, and like ill and clearly not healthy, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.239 and just like yeah, die in prison, Paul. I'm violently 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:03.080 angry about a man off it. I spent time in Ukraine, Yeah, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.400 and I saw a lot like Roger Stone's a piece 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.400 of ship. But like, maybe this makes the episode weaker, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.280 but no one will ever match the hate that we 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.600 do on this show that I have for Paul Manafort. It. 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:17.600 I mean, look how many millions He's literally responsible for 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.720 millions of millions of death Yeah, I mean millions of deaths, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.720 made a civil war go on for a decade longer 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.000 than Yeah. Yeah, conservatively five or six hundred thousand deaths 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.680 in that conflict alone. And for money, Yeah, for money, 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.240 for money he didn't need, and he had all the 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.559 money you need, you need it already. I could talk 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.719 about Paul no, no, no, I mean I get I 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.040 get really worked up when we talk about Manafort. But 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.360 it's also worth noting that, like there's almost a way 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:42.520 you could say Roger Stone is even grosser, because at 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.280 least Paul Manafort was getting involved, was in the trenches 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.880 dealing with those people, Roger Stone was just cashing their 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.280 checks just like, yeah, I don't give a ship where 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.280 this money comes from, So you couldn't say that's grosser. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.880 You could say that's grosser. Maybe it is now. Randy 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:58.880 Credico was going to come back into this story a 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.000 little bit later. But what's important right now is that 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.120 Bruno fired Stone after this voicemail came out. You know, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:09.040 but Elliott's bits are wind up going down anyway. It's 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:10.640 kind of debatable as to whether or not it was 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.280 Roger's dirty tricks that were responsible of it. There was 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.520 a federal wire tap in a New York Times report 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.000 about him that revealed he'd been spending tens of thousands 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.360 of dollars in high priced prostitutes, and his big thing was, 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.720 like he sleeps with prostitutes while wearing his socks. That's 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.560 Roger Stone. That's a Stone detail. Roger Stone repeated that 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.960 detail to every newspaper in the goddamn world for months. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.720 It's very pet, but it's very He has a really 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.240 subtle understanding of how humanity works. Yeah, that's something that like, 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.000 even if I was that sort of a person, I 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.960 wouldn't think that that detail would matter. He knew that, 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.120 it totally did. Yeah, and we don't even know him. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.520 Maybe he made that detail up. Maybe he just knew 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.240 of That's something that will stick in their heads. But 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.000 I could also see that one being true, because Eliot's 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.800 bits are undoubtedly was hanging out with a lot of prostitutes, um, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.480 which I wouldn't have an issue with if he hadn't 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.360 been in a turn any general and thus responsible for 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.360 prosecuting prostitution in New York. Um. But it's debatable. You'll 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.920 hear people say that Stone dropped the dime on Spitzer 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.040 to the FBI, and that's why there was the investigation, 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:14.960 and that's where everything came out that he did bus 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.079 Spitzer this way. I haven't found hard proof of that. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.280 There was definitely a federal wire tap and a New 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.160 York Times report about him. It's entirely possible that Roger 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.199 Stone that his main contribution was dropping that story about 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.480 the socks and then like he just sort of like, oh, 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.880 this is a happy accent. I really don't know, but 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.720 it seems pretty likely that he had a significant role 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:39.120 in Spitzer's political downfall. That that does seem likely. Um. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.560 All the tales of Roger Stone's crapulence over the years 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.679 prompted The New Yorker to write a profile of him 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.200 in two thousand eight. I think that article is the 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:49.120 first place, at least the first major outlet where Roger 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:54.480 started talking about what he called stones rules. These include 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.760 such chunks of political wisdom as he who speaks first 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:03.720 loses attack, attack a hack, never defend, admit nothing, deny everything, 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.360 launch counter attack. And when I hear the word culture, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:11.839 I reached from my revolver. Wow. So there was another one. 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:14.400 That there's a lot, there's an endless number of The 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.720 one that makes my skin crawl is that hate is 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.760 a greater motivator than love. And that's the one that 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.320 makes my skin crawl because that is the Trump campaign. Yeah, 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.480 and every campaign he's been involved. I mean, that's fascism, man, Like, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.240 that's the core ideological not that I don't think Donald 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:33.080 Trump is an ideological anything, but that is the core 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.040 of that political philosophy. Is that hate and fear a 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.360 hell of a lot more powerful than love. Yeah, although 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.120 Hitler would have said, no, it's the love of the 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.160 vulcan or whatever that is that I don't know. I'm 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:46.080 not gonna argue with dead Hitler here. Um, reasonable men 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:53.520 and Hitler can disagree. I'll let you win against dead Hitler. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.760 We all went against death. We do here here we're 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.840 still stupid. Suck on that Hitler. Yeah, with your baby mustache, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.840 you freak stupid mustache. I don't know, Like part of 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.760 me wonders like, if Hitler hadn't ever been a Hitler, 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.640 would that mustache be around, would like we all have 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:12.320 a friend with I think it would be back in 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.160 East Hollywood for sure. I feel like people dip their 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:17.559 toes with the Hitler youth haircause they dip their toes. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.360 I mean that that's shaved on the sides, look as 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.480 nice it can, it can work, looks nice come back. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.960 But yeah, it's baby mustache, a Jason. It's baby mustache Adjason. 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:28.720 I don't know. It's one of those things where like 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.800 at the time it was like this, we're way off topic, 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.200 but that was considered like a working man's mustache. You 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.360 don't have to groom it or anything. That's an honest 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.720 man's mustache. And so that's kind of like what Hitler 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.920 was repping to everyone. It's like, I'm just a normal 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.800 working joe like you. Ye see. I think that's the 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.160 thing that he sees the way like a great athlete 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.280 or a great chef or a great artist can see 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.000 things that normal people can't see. I think he sees 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.560 these subtleties. He sees like a naked man wearing socks 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.560 and goes, that's not presidential. Yeah, that's ridiculous. That's that 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.080 can hurt him. No one will take him seriously having 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.920 this in their mind, I should shave my mustache so 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.680 they look at me and say I'm one of them, 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.520 Like he's got that kind of I And if we're 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.560 looking at what is there some aspect of what I have? 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.440 Part of me believes that anyone is prominent, is someone 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.320 like Roger Stone has become there is an aspect of 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.760 genius at play, just like there is. You have to 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.880 Alex Jones. You have to otherwise they become too powerful. Yeah, 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:26.160 you have to allow yourself to have a level of 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:28.480 respect so you can figure out how to deconstruct them. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.480 And I think you've I didn't really figure out when 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:32.920 I was writing this, but I think you've nailed what 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.200 it is that his geniuses is recognizing those It's not 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.120 the actual tricks he plays. It's knowing how to present 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:41.480 things in a way that leave an indelible image in 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.280 people's heads. And I think the Spitzer thing, like really 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.880 focusing on those socks that he's wearing all these fucking 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.400 these call girls. I think that nails it. I think 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.920 that's like what he's good at. Yeah, and that will 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:54.880 actually be talking about some more stuff like that a 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.960 little bit later. Uh so. Yeah. Roger Stone starts in 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.440 like the early two thousand, is talking about Stones Rules 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.920 all the time. Every interview he does, so drop the rules, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:05.080 you know, this is my rule here, this is my 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.200 rule here. This is trying to brand himself. Here's a 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.320 quote from The New Yorker. His outfit comported with two 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.400 of the rules in his book Stones Rules for War, Politics, Food, 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.040 Fashion and Living, which he hopes to publish soon. Never 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.160 wear a double breasted suit in a button down collar 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:21.320 and white. I just love the idea that it's It's 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.160 like such a Michael Scott thing to do is have 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.000 the name of a book that you haven't written, that 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:32.320 you talked to an interview zing. Yeah, Michael Scarn. It's 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.800 just like because I started looking up that book and 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:36.480 I was like, oh, he hadn't written that. When this 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.000 came out, I was just trying to make it a thing. 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.880 I am proud to say on behalf of Roger that 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.120 he did eventually right, kind of that book. It wasn't 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.520 the same title, but you can buy it, you know, 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.320 Stones Rules, How to Win It, Politics, Business and Style 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.640 from the Info War store right now. Yeah, it currently 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.480 has twelve reviews, so you could really be on the 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.640 ground floor. This is the copy or the And he's 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.040 covering his weird bird lips. Yeah, he's covering his weird 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.520 bird lips like his guy like his hand at his 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.080 at his lips or something. Yeah, he's he really I 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.440 think he's trying to cover those jowels or something. Interesting 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.440 choice that he would cover up half his face. Such 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.480 an arrogant man. It shows you he's simultaneously arrogant and insecure. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.320 Nobody who's that obsessed with fashion can be secure in there. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.320 But yeah, I agree, nobody who fucking worries about what 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.560 their suspenders are called secure in their physical form. He's 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.480 the opposite of the cat that stars in the mirror 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.760 that sees a lion. He's a lion that stars in 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.240 a mirror and sees a cat, a little baby kitten. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.240 He's so weak, that's what all this peacocking is. Like 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.320 an old lady that used to be really sexy and 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.040 wears a miniskirt, and you're like, that's not you. This 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.320 guys sixty six. And he still calls himself a quote 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.440 unquote tough guy. Well, and it's like he also needs 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.960 to be attached to some bigger man. He doesn't do 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:56.480 anything on his own because he's he's the kitten. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:58.760 whether or not it's Alex Jones or Donald Trump, he's 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:03.320 always attached to somebody exactly. He's the sidekick. Yeah, he's 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:08.520 kind of like a chronic, sleazy sidekick of right wing firebrands. Weird, 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:10.560 like if Darth Vader had a talk show, he'd be 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:15.840 evil Ed McMahon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Now. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.080 That two thousand eight New Yorker interview also revealed that 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:20.639 Roger Stone had in two thousand seven gotten a photo 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.160 accurate back tattoo of the head of his hero Richard Nixon. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.480 The article also noted that Stone tan's twelve months a 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.840 year and drinks four triple espressos every day. Stone talked 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.320 about his recent move to Miami, saying it's a sunny 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:38.720 place for shady people. Yeah, that's a good quote. He's something. 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.680 The man could turn a phrase every Now, you really 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:42.439 can't that was That's a good one. It is a 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.320 good one. And you know, he was an actor for 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.679 a while in high school. No, I didn't even run across. 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.080 He's an He was an actor for a short time 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.440 in high school. And when he got into politics, he 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.480 said this, he said, I then realized that acting in 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.800 politics were the same. Oh see, like a lot of 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.680 had that experience. Now more than ever with the transparency 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:07.359 the Internet is creating. I mean, fucking Ronald Reagan. Yeah, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.399 it's very true. Road bedtime for Bonzo right to the 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.800 Oval office. Let's just make a stop before the rock. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.000 That's all I want. You know what, again, not the 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:22.560 worst case scenario anymore. Sure, I've had not provert. Why not? 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.800 Can you smell what the president just cocoon? I can't 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.919 take that. Wouldn't it be soothing to just have a 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.160 nice person in there? Yeah? I mean maybe the I'm 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.280 sure the climate will continue it's unheated acceleration and do 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.520 in sustainable like like greenhouse nightmare. But at least the 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.520 president could be friendly. I just I think that should 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.480 be the minimum requirement. We should have someone whose character 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.679 is at a level that we just go, Okay, this 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.639 is a decent human being who is at least trying 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.359 for the good of the country, like Jimmy Carter and 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.679 actually like no one else, but like Jimmy Carter, well 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.000 at least he's a nice person, had a great president. 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:06.480 But well, okay, so we are going to uh continue 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:11.000 talking about Roger Stone and get into his uh downfall. 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.439