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Speaker 1: M It's me Robert with the show Evans Behind the Bastards.

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Speaker 1: This is the podcast that this is where we talk

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Speaker 1: about the bad people. Sophie, you look very confused. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can't all be what's cracking life? Have us? You

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Speaker 1: know we're not all They're not all going to be perfect.

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Speaker 1: I am Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, the

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Speaker 1: show we tell you everything you don't know about the

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Speaker 1: very worst people in all the history. My guest for

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Speaker 1: part two, as with part one is Tamma Kaitany. What

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Speaker 1: are you doing. I'm doing great. I'm enjoying the conversation.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready to learn a little bit more about

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone. I'm ready to learn more and ready to

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Speaker 1: sleep less easy. Yeah, well that is the Roger Stone guarantee.

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Speaker 1: So one of the reasons I might believe the claim

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Speaker 1: that Roger Stone was a major influence on Trump's mind

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Speaker 1: is the fact that he and Donald Trump really do

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Speaker 1: have quite a long history of working together. Despite Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump's two twelve comments that Stone was a stone cold loser,

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Speaker 1: he was happy to continue to work with the ban

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Speaker 1: after his reform part the candidacy failed in two thousand.

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Speaker 1: While he was helping George W. Bush and Florida. Roger

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Speaker 1: Stone also took time to help Donald Trump with a

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Speaker 1: new pet project, a grassroots anti gambling campaign. It was

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Speaker 1: targeted at the Mohawk Nation. The tribe had opened a

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Speaker 1: casino on their land in New York State and planned

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Speaker 1: to open another casino in the Catskills. At the time,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump owned three casinos in Atlantic City, the Northeast

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Speaker 1: traditional gambling hup. Clearly, the Mohawk Nation represented a threat

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Speaker 1: to this earnings of Donald Trump. The ad Stone designed

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Speaker 1: arm pretty on the edge as far as racism goes.

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Speaker 1: I've got a clip of one of them here which

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Speaker 1: will have up on the side behind the Bastards dot com.

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Speaker 1: It says, in big letters, drug dealing at Monticello or

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Speaker 1: Monticello whatever, Thomas Jefferson's creepy house. And it's got like

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Speaker 1: a picture of like a needle and lines of cocaine

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Speaker 1: and like a baggy of drugs. And then it says, quote,

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Speaker 1: the St. Regis Mohawk Indian tribe proposes to open a

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Speaker 1: gambling casino at the Monticello Racetrack in Sullivan County. How

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Speaker 1: much do you really know about the St. Regis Mohawk Indians.

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Speaker 1: According to The New York Times, US and Canadian law

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Speaker 1: enforcement officials broke up the biggest cocaine trafficking ring in

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Speaker 1: northern New York, operating on the fourteen thousand acres St.

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Speaker 1: Regis Mohawk Reservation. Twenty six people were arrested. Police also

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Speaker 1: confiscated nineteen shotguns and handguns. And it goes on like

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Speaker 1: this saying Indians are criminals, that's the and fear among

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Speaker 1: their just like the border crossing where they use pictures

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Speaker 1: of people crossing the border in Spain. Yeah, it just

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Speaker 1: lies about women being duct taped and stuff. Now, this

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Speaker 1: this ad, which is pretty offensive, is noted on the

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Speaker 1: bottom as a project of the New York Institute for

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Speaker 1: Law and Society. Have you ever heard of the New

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Speaker 1: York Institute for Law in Society. Nope? Well, it claimed

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Speaker 1: to be a grassroots organization made up of twelve thousand

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Speaker 1: pro family donors who just you know, they don't like

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Speaker 1: gambling and they just don't one any more casinos in

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Speaker 1: their neighborhood. The reality is that you could probably have

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Speaker 1: counted the actual number of donors using one hand. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump put up virtually all of the money somewhere around

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Speaker 1: one point five million dollars. Trump signed off on the

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Speaker 1: ads and the language used in them, and paid the

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Speaker 1: bills for the private eyes Stone hired to surveill the tribe.

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Speaker 1: The whole operation was Roger's plan because this organization violated

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Speaker 1: New York laws on lobbying, because you're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: pretend that something has a bunch of funders when it's

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Speaker 1: just one guy who's doing it so that his own

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Speaker 1: casinos don't have competition. You're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 1: So the state investigated. They wound up sitting down with

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone and interviewing him. Here's the l A Times quote.

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Speaker 1: Stone told state investigators that he thought the public might

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Speaker 1: pay attention to a pro family group, but not to Trump,

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Speaker 1: allowed and longtime critic of Native American gambling, who was

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Speaker 1: trying to stay off competition for his three casinos in

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Speaker 1: Atlantic City. You could hide Trump's actions from the public.

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Speaker 1: The investigators grilled Stone, And you did that over and

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Speaker 1: over again, yes, Stone answered each time, finally adding nothing

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Speaker 1: is wrong with that. By the way, there actually was

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Speaker 1: something wrong with that. Trump and or Stone were fined

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Speaker 1: two and fifty thousand dollars for breaking the law and

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Speaker 1: required to pay more than thirty dollars to run statements

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Speaker 1: in Albany area newspapers. Yeah, it's just nothing for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the the text of the statement. Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone, and Thomas Hunter apologize if anyone was misled

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Speaker 1: concerning the production and funding of the lobbying effort. They

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Speaker 1: did not apologize for the ads content. Now, over the

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Speaker 1: next fifteen years there were dozens and probably hundreds of

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Speaker 1: other stories like that. Roger Stone developed a special hatred

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Speaker 1: for Elliot Spitzer, Attorney General of New York from thousand

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Speaker 1: and six and then governor of the state and two

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Speaker 1: thousand seven. Now, Elliott was born rich like a shocking

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Speaker 1: number of US politicians, and his father had pumped millions

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Speaker 1: of dollars into his career. Back in the mid nineties,

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Speaker 1: right around the time Elliott was elected governor, he threatened

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Speaker 1: to release records about Republican Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno.

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Speaker 1: There was basically like a rumor that Bruno had been

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Speaker 1: using state aircraft to aid in his re election campaign,

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Speaker 1: and Spitzer was going to like release records that would

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Speaker 1: prove that or not. And I think Bruno was eventually

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Speaker 1: found not guilty of that, I'm not sure, but he

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Speaker 1: was also later found taking a bribe and then got

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Speaker 1: off on like a technicality, but totally received like four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars from some guy anyway. So so Joe Bruno,

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Speaker 1: Republican Senate majority a leader of New York, did not

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Speaker 1: like Elliot Spitzer. These guys were at each other's throats,

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Speaker 1: and in order to get back at his political enemy

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Speaker 1: and to distract from his own corruption charges, Joe Bruno

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Speaker 1: called up Roger Stone and offered him twenty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a month to end Elliot Spitzer's career. Roger gleefully dove

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Speaker 1: into this effort to destroy another person. One June morning

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Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, Eliot's eighty three year old father, Bernard,

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Speaker 1: who suffered from Parkinson's, woke up to find this message

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Speaker 1: on his answering machine. This is a message for Bernard Spitzer.

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Speaker 1: You will be subpoena to testify before the Senate Committee

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Speaker 1: on Investigations on your shady campaign loans. You will be

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Speaker 1: compelled by the Senate Sergeant at Arms. If you resist

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Speaker 1: the subpoena, you will be arrested and brought to Albany,

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Speaker 1: And there's not a goddamn thing your phony psycho piece

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Speaker 1: of ships son can do about it. Bernie, your phony

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Speaker 1: loans are about to catch up with you. You will

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Speaker 1: be forced to tell the truth, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: your son is a pathological liar will be known to all.

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Speaker 1: So uh yeah, by the way, that is when I

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Speaker 1: quoted in the first episode Donald Trump calling him a

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Speaker 1: loser and saying he's a liar and everything, that's why

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Speaker 1: because actually Donald Trump liked Elliot Spitzer's dad, and it

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Speaker 1: was like, actually, like Donald Trump was morally offended by

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Speaker 1: this message. It's just that's a hard line to him,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty gnarly to an eighty three year old man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: an ill who is the father of the guy you

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Speaker 1: don't like and attack him that way? Who you got

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Speaker 1: paid tonight? You know, Like, yeah, he didn't like him,

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Speaker 1: but it's like his job getting paid to destroy his son,

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Speaker 1: not his dad. Like, how does that help you deal

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Speaker 1: with Elliot Spitzer? He's just a gross person. Now Roger

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Speaker 1: claims that that's not him. We're gonna dig into that

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Speaker 1: a lot of here. That's as much his suits are him.

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Speaker 1: That's a pinstriped voice. I will let you know. Um well,

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Speaker 1: we'll put in a link to that particular audio clip

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Speaker 1: on the side it. It includes, after the voicemail, several

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Speaker 1: clips of just Roger talking for yourself. That's fucking Roger Stone.

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Speaker 1: But like Bernard Spitzer hired a p I who traced

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Speaker 1: the call back to Roger's apartment and stuff like, it's

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Speaker 1: it's definitely Roger Stone unless you're Roger Stone. Now, Roger

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Speaker 1: has always denied making that call. He has in some

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Speaker 1: recent interviews quately said it does sound a lot like me,

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Speaker 1: but he blamed it at the time on former stand

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Speaker 1: up comedian and radio host Randy Cretico. Now we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be talking about Randy Cretico a little bit later today

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Speaker 1: to yeah, ready, Credico was like a comedian. He was

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Speaker 1: on like Leno sometimes he did like improv and he

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Speaker 1: Stone was basically like, he's so good at doing fake voices.

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Speaker 1: He pretended to be this guy and this guy it's

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Speaker 1: clearly him pretending to be me. And Credico was like,

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Speaker 1: I haven't even talked to Roger in years. Why would

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Speaker 1: I do this like which? And why would you do

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Speaker 1: something so mean? And even like a comic it be

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Speaker 1: one thing to be like, maybe this comedian called up

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Speaker 1: the governor of New York to leave him a shitty

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Speaker 1: messages someone else. Okay, I can imagine that happening, like

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Speaker 1: Obie and Anthony did ship, but his dad like why

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Speaker 1: and there was no There's no value in it at all.

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Speaker 1: It's just cruelty. Yeah. Now, Stone and Credico had met

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand three, and Randy had introduced Roger

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Speaker 1: to Al Sharpton. Sharpton had hired Stone to help with

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Speaker 1: his two thousand four presidential run, probably in the hope

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Speaker 1: that Sharpton's campaign would take votes away from John Kerry.

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Speaker 1: Roger would later tell the Washington Post quote credit co

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Speaker 1: became convinced that he should get paid for introducing me

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Speaker 1: to Sharpton. He refused to do so. Stone continues because

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Speaker 1: while Credico is a cocaine addict, and Stone knew that

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Speaker 1: any money he gave to the guy would go quote

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Speaker 1: up his nose. So Roger Stone leaves this really gross message.

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Speaker 1: It's obviously him. He blames it on a friend of

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Speaker 1: his that he hasn't talked to in years, and also

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Speaker 1: says the guy's a coke addict. Now This may sound

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Speaker 1: a little bit familiar to Well, but also Roger Stone,

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Speaker 1: when it came out that he had been putting up

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Speaker 1: sex ads in his magazine, is like, no, it's my housekeeper.

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Speaker 1: Like and Trump thrown his own his own son in

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Speaker 1: law under the bus. No one's sake. No one is safe. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a gross way to live, it really is. And

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Speaker 1: the only way you can live that way is if

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Speaker 1: you have more money than God. You know what kills

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Speaker 1: me is all my life. I've grown up watching these

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Speaker 1: Hollywood films and I always just a sense of justice

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Speaker 1: is what kept me happy. Yeah, believing in things like karma,

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Speaker 1: believing that things come around. This is a movie where

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Speaker 1: the bad guy win is winning so far, and like,

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Speaker 1: why is this movie so long? Why? Why is this

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Speaker 1: movie my entire life? Is he going to get it? Man?

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Speaker 1: But I've ever seen a guy in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a horror movie. It's such a jerky like I can't

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Speaker 1: wait till he dies because I know it's going to

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Speaker 1: be something horrific. The Paul Manafort story has been there

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Speaker 1: for me because just like seeing him denied to wear

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Speaker 1: a suit recently, and like ill and clearly not healthy,

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Speaker 1: and just like yeah, die in prison, Paul. I'm violently

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Speaker 1: angry about a man off it. I spent time in Ukraine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I saw a lot like Roger Stone's a piece

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Speaker 1: of ship. But like, maybe this makes the episode weaker,

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Speaker 1: but no one will ever match the hate that we

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Speaker 1: do on this show that I have for Paul Manafort. It.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look how many millions He's literally responsible for

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Speaker 1: millions of millions of death Yeah, I mean millions of deaths,

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Speaker 1: made a civil war go on for a decade longer

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Speaker 1: than Yeah. Yeah, conservatively five or six hundred thousand deaths

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Speaker 1: in that conflict alone. And for money, Yeah, for money,

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Speaker 1: for money he didn't need, and he had all the

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Speaker 1: money you need, you need it already. I could talk

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Speaker 1: about Paul no, no, no, I mean I get I

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Speaker 1: get really worked up when we talk about Manafort. But

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Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that, like there's almost a way

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Speaker 1: you could say Roger Stone is even grosser, because at

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Speaker 1: least Paul Manafort was getting involved, was in the trenches

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Speaker 1: dealing with those people, Roger Stone was just cashing their

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Speaker 1: checks just like, yeah, I don't give a ship where

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Speaker 1: this money comes from, So you couldn't say that's grosser.

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Speaker 1: You could say that's grosser. Maybe it is now. Randy

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Speaker 1: Credico was going to come back into this story a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. But what's important right now is that

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Speaker 1: Bruno fired Stone after this voicemail came out. You know,

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Speaker 1: but Elliott's bits are wind up going down anyway. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of debatable as to whether or not it was

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Speaker 1: Roger's dirty tricks that were responsible of it. There was

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Speaker 1: a federal wire tap in a New York Times report

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Speaker 1: about him that revealed he'd been spending tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars in high priced prostitutes, and his big thing was,

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Speaker 1: like he sleeps with prostitutes while wearing his socks. That's

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone. That's a Stone detail. Roger Stone repeated that

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Speaker 1: detail to every newspaper in the goddamn world for months.

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Speaker 1: It's very pet, but it's very He has a really

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Speaker 1: subtle understanding of how humanity works. Yeah, that's something that like,

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Speaker 1: even if I was that sort of a person, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't think that that detail would matter. He knew that,

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Speaker 1: it totally did. Yeah, and we don't even know him.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he made that detail up. Maybe he just knew

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Speaker 1: of That's something that will stick in their heads. But

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Speaker 1: I could also see that one being true, because Eliot's

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Speaker 1: bits are undoubtedly was hanging out with a lot of prostitutes, um,

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Speaker 1: which I wouldn't have an issue with if he hadn't

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Speaker 1: been in a turn any general and thus responsible for

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Speaker 1: prosecuting prostitution in New York. Um. But it's debatable. You'll

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Speaker 1: hear people say that Stone dropped the dime on Spitzer

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Speaker 1: to the FBI, and that's why there was the investigation,

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Speaker 1: and that's where everything came out that he did bus

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Speaker 1: Spitzer this way. I haven't found hard proof of that.

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Speaker 1: There was definitely a federal wire tap and a New

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Speaker 1: York Times report about him. It's entirely possible that Roger

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Speaker 1: Stone that his main contribution was dropping that story about

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Speaker 1: the socks and then like he just sort of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a happy accent. I really don't know, but

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Speaker 1: it seems pretty likely that he had a significant role

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Speaker 1: in Spitzer's political downfall. That that does seem likely. Um.

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Speaker 1: All the tales of Roger Stone's crapulence over the years

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Speaker 1: prompted The New Yorker to write a profile of him

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eight. I think that article is the

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Speaker 1: first place, at least the first major outlet where Roger

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Speaker 1: started talking about what he called stones rules. These include

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Speaker 1: such chunks of political wisdom as he who speaks first

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Speaker 1: loses attack, attack a hack, never defend, admit nothing, deny everything,

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Speaker 1: launch counter attack. And when I hear the word culture,

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Speaker 1: I reached from my revolver. Wow. So there was another one.

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Speaker 1: That there's a lot, there's an endless number of The

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Speaker 1: one that makes my skin crawl is that hate is

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Speaker 1: a greater motivator than love. And that's the one that

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Speaker 1: makes my skin crawl because that is the Trump campaign. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and every campaign he's been involved. I mean, that's fascism, man, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's the core ideological not that I don't think Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is an ideological anything, but that is the core

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Speaker 1: of that political philosophy. Is that hate and fear a

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Speaker 1: hell of a lot more powerful than love. Yeah, although

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Speaker 1: Hitler would have said, no, it's the love of the

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Speaker 1: vulcan or whatever that is that I don't know. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna argue with dead Hitler here. Um, reasonable men

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Speaker 1: and Hitler can disagree. I'll let you win against dead Hitler.

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Speaker 1: We all went against death. We do here here we're

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Speaker 1: still stupid. Suck on that Hitler. Yeah, with your baby mustache,

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Speaker 1: you freak stupid mustache. I don't know, Like part of

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Speaker 1: me wonders like, if Hitler hadn't ever been a Hitler,

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Speaker 1: would that mustache be around, would like we all have

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Speaker 1: a friend with I think it would be back in

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Speaker 1: East Hollywood for sure. I feel like people dip their

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Speaker 1: toes with the Hitler youth haircause they dip their toes.

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Speaker 1: I mean that that's shaved on the sides, look as

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Speaker 1: nice it can, it can work, looks nice come back.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's baby mustache, a Jason. It's baby mustache Adjason.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's one of those things where like

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Speaker 1: at the time it was like this, we're way off topic,

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Speaker 1: but that was considered like a working man's mustache. You

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Speaker 1: don't have to groom it or anything. That's an honest

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Speaker 1: man's mustache. And so that's kind of like what Hitler

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Speaker 1: was repping to everyone. It's like, I'm just a normal

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Speaker 1: working joe like you. Ye see. I think that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that he sees the way like a great athlete

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Speaker 1: or a great chef or a great artist can see

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Speaker 1: things that normal people can't see. I think he sees

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Speaker 1: these subtleties. He sees like a naked man wearing socks

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Speaker 1: and goes, that's not presidential. Yeah, that's ridiculous. That's that

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Speaker 1: can hurt him. No one will take him seriously having

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Speaker 1: this in their mind, I should shave my mustache so

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Speaker 1: they look at me and say I'm one of them,

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Speaker 1: Like he's got that kind of I And if we're

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Speaker 1: looking at what is there some aspect of what I have?

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Speaker 1: Part of me believes that anyone is prominent, is someone

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Speaker 1: like Roger Stone has become there is an aspect of

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Speaker 1: genius at play, just like there is. You have to

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones. You have to otherwise they become too powerful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have to allow yourself to have a level of

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Speaker 1: respect so you can figure out how to deconstruct them.

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Speaker 1: And I think you've I didn't really figure out when

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Speaker 1: I was writing this, but I think you've nailed what

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Speaker 1: it is that his geniuses is recognizing those It's not

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Speaker 1: the actual tricks he plays. It's knowing how to present

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Speaker 1: things in a way that leave an indelible image in

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Speaker 1: people's heads. And I think the Spitzer thing, like really

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Speaker 1: focusing on those socks that he's wearing all these fucking

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Speaker 1: these call girls. I think that nails it. I think

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Speaker 1: that's like what he's good at. Yeah, and that will

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Speaker 1: actually be talking about some more stuff like that a

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Speaker 1: little bit later. Uh so. Yeah. Roger Stone starts in

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Speaker 1: like the early two thousand, is talking about Stones Rules

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Speaker 1: all the time. Every interview he does, so drop the rules,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is my rule here, this is my

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Speaker 1: rule here. This is trying to brand himself. Here's a

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Speaker 1: quote from The New Yorker. His outfit comported with two

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Speaker 1: of the rules in his book Stones Rules for War, Politics, Food,

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Speaker 1: Fashion and Living, which he hopes to publish soon. Never

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Speaker 1: wear a double breasted suit in a button down collar

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Speaker 1: and white. I just love the idea that it's It's

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Speaker 1: like such a Michael Scott thing to do is have

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Speaker 1: the name of a book that you haven't written, that

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Speaker 1: you talked to an interview zing. Yeah, Michael Scarn. It's

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Speaker 1: just like because I started looking up that book and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he hadn't written that. When this

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Speaker 1: came out, I was just trying to make it a thing.

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Speaker 1: I am proud to say on behalf of Roger that

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Speaker 1: he did eventually right, kind of that book. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the same title, but you can buy it, you know,

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Speaker 1: Stones Rules, How to Win It, Politics, Business and Style

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Speaker 1: from the Info War store right now. Yeah, it currently

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Speaker 1: has twelve reviews, so you could really be on the

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Speaker 1: ground floor. This is the copy or the And he's

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Speaker 1: covering his weird bird lips. Yeah, he's covering his weird

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Speaker 1: bird lips like his guy like his hand at his

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Speaker 1: at his lips or something. Yeah, he's he really I

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Speaker 1: think he's trying to cover those jowels or something. Interesting

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Speaker 1: choice that he would cover up half his face. Such

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Speaker 1: an arrogant man. It shows you he's simultaneously arrogant and insecure.

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Speaker 1: Nobody who's that obsessed with fashion can be secure in there.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree, nobody who fucking worries about what

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Speaker 1: their suspenders are called secure in their physical form. He's

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Speaker 1: the opposite of the cat that stars in the mirror

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Speaker 1: that sees a lion. He's a lion that stars in

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Speaker 1: a mirror and sees a cat, a little baby kitten.

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Speaker 1: He's so weak, that's what all this peacocking is. Like

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Speaker 1: an old lady that used to be really sexy and

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Speaker 1: wears a miniskirt, and you're like, that's not you. This

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Speaker 1: guys sixty six. And he still calls himself a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote tough guy. Well, and it's like he also needs

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Speaker 1: to be attached to some bigger man. He doesn't do

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Speaker 1: anything on his own because he's he's the kitten. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's Alex Jones or Donald Trump, he's

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Speaker 1: always attached to somebody exactly. He's the sidekick. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of like a chronic, sleazy sidekick of right wing firebrands. Weird,

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Speaker 1: like if Darth Vader had a talk show, he'd be

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Speaker 1: evil Ed McMahon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah. Now.

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Speaker 1: That two thousand eight New Yorker interview also revealed that

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Speaker 1: Roger Stone had in two thousand seven gotten a photo

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Speaker 1: accurate back tattoo of the head of his hero Richard Nixon.

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Speaker 1: The article also noted that Stone tan's twelve months a

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Speaker 1: year and drinks four triple espressos every day. Stone talked

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Speaker 1: about his recent move to Miami, saying it's a sunny

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Speaker 1: place for shady people. Yeah, that's a good quote. He's something.

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Speaker 1: The man could turn a phrase every Now, you really

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Speaker 1: can't that was That's a good one. It is a

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Speaker 1: good one. And you know, he was an actor for

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Speaker 1: a while in high school. No, I didn't even run across.

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Speaker 1: He's an He was an actor for a short time

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Speaker 1: in high school. And when he got into politics, he

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Speaker 1: said this, he said, I then realized that acting in

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Speaker 1: politics were the same. Oh see, like a lot of

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Speaker 1: had that experience. Now more than ever with the transparency

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Speaker 1: the Internet is creating. I mean, fucking Ronald Reagan. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very true. Road bedtime for Bonzo right to the

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Speaker 1: Oval office. Let's just make a stop before the rock.

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Speaker 1: That's all I want. You know what, again, not the

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Speaker 1: worst case scenario anymore. Sure, I've had not provert. Why not?

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Speaker 1: Can you smell what the president just cocoon? I can't

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Speaker 1: take that. Wouldn't it be soothing to just have a

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Speaker 1: nice person in there? Yeah? I mean maybe the I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the climate will continue it's unheated acceleration and do

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Speaker 1: in sustainable like like greenhouse nightmare. But at least the

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Speaker 1: president could be friendly. I just I think that should

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Speaker 1: be the minimum requirement. We should have someone whose character

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Speaker 1: is at a level that we just go, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is a decent human being who is at least trying

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Speaker 1: for the good of the country, like Jimmy Carter and

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Speaker 1: actually like no one else, but like Jimmy Carter, well

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Speaker 1: at least he's a nice person, had a great president.

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Speaker 1: But well, okay, so we are going to uh continue

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Speaker 1: talking about Roger Stone and get into his uh downfall.

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Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say downfall, which is going

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Speaker 1: to be the most satisfying cathartic part of this podcast.

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Speaker 1: But first, you know what's even more cathartic than the

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Speaker 1: downfall of a monster? Tell me. I was just thinking

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Speaker 1: about wonderful services and products that are provided by the

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Speaker 1: advertisements in front of products we're back listeners. While those

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Speaker 1: wonderful ads that you were spending your money on were running.

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Speaker 1: We started to suspect that Roger Stone's greatest crime may

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Speaker 1: in fact have been appropriating the phrase it's a sunny

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Speaker 1: place for shady people from someone else. We found a

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Speaker 1: sunglasses line in a book, although the book came out

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Speaker 1: after that interviewed it, so it's hard to say Roger

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Speaker 1: may have stolen that line from someone. So if he's

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Speaker 1: going to do that research and we'll we'll get back

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Speaker 1: to you or not if nothing interesting comes up, we

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Speaker 1: won't get back to you and pretend this didn't happen anyway. So,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, while he was doing that interview,

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Speaker 1: it was not a great time to be a Republican

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Speaker 1: in politics. You know, Barack Obama had just kind of

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Speaker 1: bum rushed the McCain campaign. You know, it didn't look

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Speaker 1: like the Republicans are going to be back in power

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Speaker 1: for a little while. A white war hero beat a

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Speaker 1: white war hero. Uh and whatever Sarah Palin is and uh,

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Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was looking like a rough time

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Speaker 1: for Republican political operation. And so in that interview, roger

426
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: Stone noted, quote, the left has done a better job

427
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: of dominating the new space. We're weak on the web.

428
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: So a little foreshadowing there. Question about the McCain campaign,

429
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: roger Stone advised, quote an Exonian slash and burn campaign

430
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: against Barack Obama. Obama and his wife are elitists and

431
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: their week they don't share middle class values. Middle class

432
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: Americans are proud out of their country, and they are not.

433
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: He thinks he's going to sit down with Iran and Hamas.

434
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 1: How do you know he's not gonna shake hands with

435
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: a suicide bomber. You can't sit down with people who

436
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: don't want to sit down. All he's gonna do is

437
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: raise taxes, which is going to give the government more money,

438
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 1: but it's not going to create any jobs. Remember Stone

439
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: said politics is not about uniting people, it's about dividing

440
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 1: people and getting your Wow. That's Roger Stone and Paul

441
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: Manafort and motherfucking nutshell. You know what. It might be

442
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: his own thirst for attention, the attention he never got

443
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: from his dad. That's gonna be his downfall because he's

444
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: he can't not speak to the press. He's underestimating people. Yeah,

445
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: he even though he said he said this plenty of

446
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: times that his target audience is not the elite, that

447
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: is not the sophisticate. It's not people who who study

448
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,719
Speaker 1: or read up on politics. But now he's underestimating their

449
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: ability to read things about him and for them to

450
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: still be hypnotized. So here he kind of spinning off

451
00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 1: of that. I'm not sure if it's him underestimating them

452
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: or if say fundamental he can't understand politics is not

453
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: about politics to him, it's about the same thing a

454
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 1: game of monopoly is. When you get into a really

455
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 1: into a game of monopoly, and so he is incapable

456
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: of realizing, Like, no, Roger, the things that you are

457
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 1: doing have are impacting people's lives and horrible negative ways.

458
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: When you give these politicians and they put in these

459
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: these shortsighted policies that funk up and you know, lead

460
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: to all the terrible things that these different politicians you've

461
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: supported over the years have done. Like, when these things

462
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,360
Speaker 1: impact people's lives, they get angry and then they hear

463
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 1: you talking about like dividing people and they're like, I

464
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: can't talk to half my family. We're all screaming at

465
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: each other, and like, you can't understand what it's like

466
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: to be in that situation because none of this means

467
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: that to you. So where the United States of America

468
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: And to hear like a campaign manager or a political

469
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: strategist for the President of the United States of America

470
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: that his tactic was to divide a country whose foundation

471
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: was about uniting. Yeah, it's just so heartbreaking. Well, and

472
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: it's one of those things you couldn't until recently get

473
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: away with. Like you remember when Barack Obama was running

474
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: and he made that comment about people clinging to their

475
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: guns and their bibles, that was a huge I was

476
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: still very much in the right wing media bubble at

477
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: that point in time in my life, and that was

478
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: a huge issue with people being like and he and

479
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: there were there's a good reason to be pissed about

480
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: that if you're if you're a Bible leaving Christian, if

481
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: you're someone who grew up shooting and has done that

482
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 1: your whole life and live in a place where like, yeah,

483
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: that's an offensive thing. And he had he had to

484
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: address that ship and any presidential candidate up until would

485
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: have had to face consequences for a statement like that.

486
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: A guy like Roger Stone has never had to because

487
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: he's not a candidate ever, and it's almost never transparent

488
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: who he's advising, and so he's never had to be

489
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: that careful, which I think we're getting the part of

490
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 1: the story where that bites him in the ass. Yeah. So, uh,

491
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 1: it's worth noting before we move on from the two

492
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: thousand and eight that during that election he formed the

493
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: group Citizens United Not Timid to oppose Hillary Clinton's presidential

494
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: campaign literal acronym KUNT Yeah. Nice guy, Roger. Now in

495
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: two two years into Elliott Spitzer's political exile, Roger Stone

496
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: struck again after being laid off. He'd apparently found another

497
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: set of backers, wealthy Republicans his description, who paid him

498
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: to make sure Spitzer's political career stayed dead. And this

499
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: is where, you know, after Spitzer was already at this

500
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: is where he started talking about the socks like, this

501
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,479
Speaker 1: is where he started spreading that man. And he claims

502
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: that he was like at an adult club and met

503
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 1: a girl who was friends with a girl who'd worked

504
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: with Spitzer, and she told him the story. It's a

505
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: it's like I was talking to my prostitute friend and

506
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: she said, this is how silly. And this is two

507
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: years after Spitzer's out as governor, because he's already been disgraced. Yeah,

508
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: so unbelievable. Yeah, Anyway, Roger Stone seems to have grown

509
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: less cautious and careful in his golden years. Maybe it's

510
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: the corrupting influence of social media, but over the last

511
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: decade he's racked up a pretty horrifying compilation of sexist remarks.

512
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: Here's media Matters. Stone tweeted that New York Times columnist

513
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: Gail Collins is an elitist cunt. MSNBC host Rachel Maddow

514
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: is Rachel the muff diver Fox News is Megan Kelly

515
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: has a nice set of cans, and Representative deVie Wasserman

516
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: Schultz is a jap acronym for Jewish American princess. He

517
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: thought that was going to be one kind of racist,

518
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: but with another who is every man's first wife. He

519
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: also tweeted die bitch at former New York Times executive

520
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: editor Jill Abramson and said he would kill himself if

521
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: he was married to screechy and chill Carly Fiorina. The

522
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 1: Sun Sentinel also reported that Stone called Florida politician Barbara

523
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: Stern a self important nasty kunt on Twitter. So lest

524
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 1: I leave the impression that Roger's bigotry is limited to women,

525
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: Here's a bunch of racist stuff, he said. Stone's tweets

526
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: include attacks like stupid negro, fat negro, arrogant, know at

527
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: all Negro, uncle, Tom man dingo, and house negro. Stone

528
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: tweeted that commenter Roland Martin is a stupid negro and

529
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: a fat negro, commentator Herman Kane is a man dingo,

530
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: and former Representative Alan West is an arrogant, no at

531
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: all negro. He also tweeted that commentator Alsh Arpton, as

532
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: a professional Negro who likes Fried Chicken, asked if former

533
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson was an Uncle Tom and

534
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: referred to himself as an inward with a Nixon tattoo.

535
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: He did not use the phrase in word. It was

536
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: an uncomfortable paragraph to state. But this is all stuff

537
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: roger Stone said, mostly about Republicans. He's just the reed him. Yeah,

538
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: they reject the mainstream instead. Yeah, mainstream Republicans rejected him.

539
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: And he's a tagging. He's he's a hurt man. Yeah,

540
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: he's a he's a hurt man. And uh. In two

541
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, he got his chance to push some pain

542
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 1: back out into the world. That is the year when

543
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: Donald Trump began to execute his campaign run for president. Now,

544
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: roger Stone was reportedly Donald Trump's number one consultant for

545
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 1: the early stages of his bid. According to Joshua Green,

546
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: the author of Devil's Bargain, a book about the election, quote,

547
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: inside Trump's circle, the power of illegal immigration to manipulate

548
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: popular sentiment was readily parent and his advisor's brainstormed methods

549
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: for keeping their attention andled Boss on message. They needed

550
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: a trick an ammonic device. In the summer of two

551
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: thous fourteen, they found one that clicked. According to Sam Nunberg,

552
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: who worked with Trump during this period, Roger Stone and

553
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: I came up with the idea of the wall, and

554
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: we talked to Steve Bannon about it. It was to

555
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: make sure Trump talked about immigration. Initially, Trump seemed indifferent

556
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: to the idea, but in January two fifteen, he tried

557
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: it out at the Iowa Freedom Summit, a presidential cattle

558
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: call put on by David Bossey's group Citizens United. One

559
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: of his pledges was I will build a wall, and

560
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: the place just went nuts. That's what you're talking about.

561
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 1: It's like with the socks. Roger knows that's some little

562
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: stick in people's exactly. You gotta drive that. I think

563
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: that is his major contribution. That's why even when he's fired,

564
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: people keep him so. Roger Stone stole his catchphrase about

565
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: Florida from a nineteen forty one novel, oh M Summerset

566
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: man or mong And I don't know how to pronounce it,

567
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: but I've seen that name before. Yet another crime uncovered.

568
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: You shady son of a bit. You know what's funny too,

569
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: This is almost like when you go to jail and

570
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: you don't want anybody to mess with you, so you

571
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: just throw human poop on you and everyone's scared to

572
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: touch you. I think he plays so dirty and so

573
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: gross that people are like, I know he's doing something legal,

574
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: but I don't want to fight with him because he

575
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: fights like a homeless person. Yeah, he's gonna bite and

576
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: scratch and stab, and he's it's it's so bizarre, how

577
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: broken this guy. I didn't think during this conversation I

578
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: would actually feel sorry for this guy, but that's what

579
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: I do. There's a deep core of sadness too. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

580
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: it becomes clear the more you dig into, like what

581
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: he's done his whole life. I think that's the justice.

582
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: He wants us to think he's strong, even calls himself

583
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: a bodybuilder and and tattoos a man's face on his

584
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: back that he thinks it's strong. And really he's just

585
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: this insecure, weak, broken, broken little boy. Yeah. They all

586
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: are at something. Yeah yeah. Now, Stone's time with the

587
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: Trump campaign did not last all that long. In August

588
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: two fifteen, after a performance in one of the Republican

589
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: primary debates that was wrongly considered to be disastrous for

590
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. You remember that, Yeah, Roger quit or

591
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: was fired. Roger claims he quit. At least Trump says

592
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: that he fired Roger, and Roger says that he quit

593
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: and basically fired Trump from anyway, It's who knows. He

594
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: was getting too much airtime for Trump's taste. It wasn't

595
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: that the hypothesis that might be part of it. And

596
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: it might also be that after that, Roger also thought

597
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: that things were going badly with the campaign and didn't

598
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: want to be attached to it anymore because it looked

599
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: bad back then. For nobody was guessing. Republicans were screaming

600
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: get Trump out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of people

601
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: were angry, so that may have been why that happened.

602
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: He was trying to like anyway, this was not the

603
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: end of the Stone Trump relationship, though, according to one

604
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: version of events, at least Roger Stone was responsible for

605
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: hooking Donald Trump up with Paul Manaford, who at that

606
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: point lived in a Trump Tower but did not actually

607
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: know Donald well. Some people say that Stone is the

608
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: guy who pushed Manafort on Trump basically in order to

609
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: give himself an end with the campaign that he'd probably

610
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: been fired from. If true, this would be an appropriate

611
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: reversal of Roger's agreement to act as Manafort's proxy and

612
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: the Young Republicans so many years before. It's a nice

613
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: little bit of symmetry, and it would be nice if

614
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: the only person either of them is capable of doing

615
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 1: a single altruistic thing for is the other. If like

616
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: the one nice thing Paul Manaford every did was for

617
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: Roger Stone and vice versa. Like it's funny, you know,

618
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: I think when Manafort got hired, I think in the

619
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: documentary it was Stone who quoted his quote when Manafort

620
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: got hired, was back in the saddle again. Yeah, like

621
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm back. He knew that was his way back into

622
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: the campaign. Yeah. And it does seem like and we'll

623
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: see how things go now, but it seems like for

624
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: a while the two were pretty good at being solid

625
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: with each other. You know, the backstab a lot of

626
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: other people, but they were usually on the same side

627
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: of things. Um, when they were both involved in the

628
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: same thing. Some of that maybe that man of for

629
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: it was really more overseas you know, after like the

630
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: eighties particularly, But it's like an episode of Survivor, but

631
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: in d c Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the

632
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: union at everybody else, Yeah, just Roger Stone and Paul

633
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: Manaford against the world. The only smart member of that

634
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: group in the long term turned out to be Black

635
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: who has just got rich and decided not to commit

636
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: more cries. Oh boy. Now, most of what we are

637
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: going to talk about from here on out Roger Stone's

638
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: relationship with Wiki Leaks and the possibly criminal behavior he

639
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: engaged in on behalf of the Trump campaign. All of

640
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: this is very controversial. We don't know exactly what happened yet,

641
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: because obviously the Muller reports not out. There are competing

642
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: versions of events and competing suspicions of how things went down.

643
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: One thing that is crystal clear about this time is

644
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: that Roger Stone was instrumental in bringing Alex Jones and

645
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump together, which again that's why I brought up

646
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: the stuff about conspiracies earlier. He's always had that thing,

647
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: and starting about two and thirteen, he and Alex Jones

648
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: start being buddies and eventually becomes like he's an Info

649
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: Wars employee for like the last three years, so he's

650
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: he's like hosting a show, he's a reporter there he's

651
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: making probably grand a month, and I do want to

652
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: I want to plug quickly here. Knowledge Fight, the podcast

653
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: that talks about Alex Jones shows, just did a fantastic

654
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: episode on all of this. Yeah, if you go to

655
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: Knowledge Fights website and Knowledge Fight, or just look him

656
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: up on on Google. Knowledge Fight the January nineteen episode,

657
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: they're going to do a lot more granular detail about

658
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: this than we're going to because we're kind of covering

659
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: his whole life. They focus more on his shadiness with

660
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: wiki leaks. It's great. I really recommend it. But yeah,

661
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: So it's unclear win exactly Alex and Roger became friends,

662
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: but it's very clear that Roger was the reason that

663
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump sort of got keyed into the fact that

664
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: info Wars existed at all. I don't think I don't

665
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: think Donald Trump was listening to a lot of info

666
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: Wars in the nineties or whenever. Now. In December two fifteen,

667
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: Donald Trump showed up on info Wars and praised Alex

668
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: Jones as having an amazed in reputation. As the two

669
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen election picked up, steam Stone became a

670
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: more frequent guest on Info Wars. On August four, two

671
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, he showed up as a guest on the

672
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: Info Wars radio show. At this point, Alex Jones was

673
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: telling his listeners that Hillary Clinton was about to resign

674
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: as a presidential candidate under the shame of a massive

675
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: criminal indictment. Now, at this point, a number of hacked

676
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: DNC emails had already been released via wiki leaks. Stone

677
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: claimed on air on August four to know about the

678
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: upcoming release of more hacked DNC emails on wiki leaks.

679
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: He also claimed to have spoken with Donald Trump on

680
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: August three. More recent releases as part of the Mueller

681
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: investigation have shown that on the fourth, the same day

682
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: Stone was on Info Wars, he emailed Trump advisor Sam

683
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Nunberg and told him he'd had dinner with Julian Assange

684
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: the night before, which, if you're keeping track, would be

685
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: the same day he claimed to have met with Trump.

686
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: So when we talk about evidence of collusion, there is

687
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: some definitely speaking of collusion. This podcast colludes with a

688
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: number of fantastic sponsors that helped keep the lights on

689
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: and allow us to do this show. So please collude

690
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: with us. You would bringing you this information By colluding

691
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: with capitalism to purchase products. All right, we're back and

692
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 1: uh we are talking about Roger Stone in the election. Now.

693
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: Over the course of two sixteen, Roger Stone repeatedly played

694
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: the role of hype man for Wiki leaks release of

695
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: Democratic campaign documents as well as Clinton advisor John Podesta's emails.

696
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: On Honest one, he tweeted, trust me, it will soon

697
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: be time in the barrel hashtag crooked Hillary. Shortly thereafter,

698
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 1: Wiki Leaks published a cash of John Podesta's leaked emails.

699
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: Roger frequently spoke on info Wars and wrote articles on

700
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: bright Bart, poo pooing the idea that Russia had anything

701
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: to do with all these hacks and pushing the narrative

702
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: that Goose offer two point oh the person behind the

703
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: DNC hacks was an independent activist, a hero in Stone's telling,

704
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: and not an agent of the Russian government. Now. On

705
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: election night two sixteen, Roger Stone celebrated with his good

706
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: buddy Alex Jones. The two drank champagne and saluted the

707
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: dawn of a brave new era. But for Roger and

708
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: probably for Alex, to the end of the fun times

709
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: was finally nigh. Donald Trump's upset victory got a lot

710
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: of people to start looking much more closely on whether

711
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: or not there had been any collusion with Wiki leaks

712
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: or the Russian government within the Trump campaign. It quickly

713
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: became apparent that Goosefer two point oh was in fact

714
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: a Russian operative. He fucked up and gave investigators the

715
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: digital equivalent of DNA evidence that he was a spy,

716
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: and of course, later leaked chat logs revealed that Roger

717
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: Stone had been communicating with him the same thing happened

718
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks. It's again still a little bit unclear

719
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: exactly how all of this maps out. It seems like

720
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: what happened is Roger Stone was communicating with a guy

721
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: named Jerome and Corsi, who was one of the major

722
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: origin points for like the Berther bullshit myth thing and

723
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: who also had connections with wiki leaks, and that was

724
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: his go between, and he was sort of working directly

725
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,919
Speaker 1: with wiki leaks that way, and he definitely there's also

726
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: been reports that he was sort of selling himself to

727
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: the Trump campaign since he had been kicked out as

728
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: an advisor as a liaison to Wiki leaks, and was

729
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: coordinating with the campaign, probably with Steve Bannon. That's what

730
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: it looks like was happening, although again it's not exactly known,

731
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,720
Speaker 1: so it looks like, yeah, Roger Stone was working directly

732
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: with Jerome Corsi as well as communicating with Wiki Leaks

733
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: one on one and communicating with Goose for two point

734
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: oh in order to sort of coordinate the release of

735
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: leaked documents with, you know, the presidential campaign to hurt

736
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton. Now, when all of this became the biggest

737
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: news story in the country, which has been for more

738
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: or less the last two years, Roger suddenly started claiming

739
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: that he had not in fact had direct contact with

740
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: Wiki Leaks or Assance, which, of course multiple times during

741
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: the election he had talked about on like radio shows

742
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: and podcasts talking with Wiki leaks and stuff, but he

743
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 1: had not been consistent about this. But he suddenly started

744
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: lying once the Mueller investigation kicked up, uh, and began

745
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: claiming that rather than talking directly with wick leagues, you're

746
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: communicating and including like through with Jerome Corsi. His contact

747
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks, he hadn't been including with him directly.

748
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: They just had a friend in common, and Stone claimed

749
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: that that friend was Randy Cretico. Now, which again is

750
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: the exact same thing he did when he got caught

751
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: the last time he did something. These characters come back

752
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: around now. Stone testified to the House Intelligence Committee in

753
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: two thousands seventeen that this was the case, and the

754
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: recent indictment handed down by Bob Mueller makes it clear

755
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: that this was yet another lie. Stone was charged with

756
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: witness tampering for telling Credico things like Stone Wallet plead

757
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: the fifth anything to save the plan. That's a Richard

758
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: Nixon quote, by the way, So when you basically Stone

759
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: lies and says that Credico is his source to Wiki leaks,

760
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: and he's telling Credico, keep this lie going when you

761
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: get in front of the House Intelligence Committee, and his

762
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,360
Speaker 1: way to tell him to commit this federal crime is

763
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: to send him a quote of Nixon telling someone to

764
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 1: commit a federal crime. It was one of the things

765
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: that Nixon got caught doing and is why he got impeached.

766
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: It's really funny because he also always says history is prologue. Yeah,

767
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: Shakespeare pas passed his prologue. And in the tempest in

768
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 1: the Shakespeare speech, when the guy was saying the character

769
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: was saying that I remember the character. But when he

770
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: was saying that it was a way to excuse murder.

771
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: M hm. This freaking guy, like his code words are

772
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: like so easy to decipher. Yeah, his coword. And this

773
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: is literally another guy committing the same crime he's committing exactly,

774
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: Like he's such a roger don't use that. Don't commit

775
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: crimes through what's I This is a different jump that

776
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: he's made though than the past. Yeah, and this is

777
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: a lot dumber in the past. He also said things

778
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: like if you turned over anything to the FBI, you're

779
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: a fool. He threatened Credit cost service dog Bianca, saying

780
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 1: he would take that dog away from you. You are

781
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: a rat, a stoolie. You backstab your friends, run your mouth.

782
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: My lawyers are dying to rip you to shreds. I'm

783
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: so ready, let's get it on. Prepared to die expletive now.

784
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that when questioned about this by Mother Jones,

785
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: Roger Stone stated that his words were being taken out

786
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: of context, and when he said prepared to die, motherfucker,

787
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: he ad meant that. You know, Credico was dealing with cancer.

788
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: He's like he should just really bad lives rotching. So

789
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,919
Speaker 1: he says something it's even worse, like, Oh, I don't

790
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: mean I'm gonna kill him and I mean you guys.

791
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm going to remind him of that

792
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: because I'm a prick, but I'll take his dog. Jesus.

793
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: It's so funny too, because at first I went, Okay,

794
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't even like animals, he's a dick. And

795
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: then the very next week when the FBI rated his home,

796
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: he's like, the upset my wife, the upset my dogs.

797
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: He's apparently a dog lover, which you know a lot

798
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: of people are. Um, he didn't say I'll kill your dog,

799
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: so maybe he was just threatening to abductor man's service animal.

800
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: Fair enough. Like, you know what's different now is the

801
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: old campaign was all lie by any means necessary. I'll

802
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: do whatever I need to do to have this side

803
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: of the country win. Now he's like, I don't care

804
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: if it's another country. Yeah, that wants as long as

805
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't get long as I don't get in trouble.

806
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: So before it was like i'll have the conservative side

807
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: versus the liberal side. Now it's like i'll have an

808
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: enemy of the nation. Yeah. This guy's he's gone from

809
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: from a corrupt person to a trader. Yeah, and and

810
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: to a trader who, like in the months leading up

811
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: to this on info Wars, would regularly urge President Trump

812
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 1: to essentially assume dictatorial powers and shut down the FBI

813
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: investigation and stuff. And it's like, that's a line, Roger.

814
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: That's it answers the question for a lot of people

815
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: that are like for an outsider, Trump really knows how

816
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: to play the game. Trump doesn't know how to play

817
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 1: the game. He just knows how to find shady people

818
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: in sunny places who know how to play the game.

819
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: He knows when to listen. And when you're in real estate,

820
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: nobody cares because everyone in the real estate business is

821
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: a criminal um and it's fine. We're fine with that

822
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: for some reason. Not my real and long beach Susie.

823
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: Thanks Susy. Sorry for drying a mustache on your memo

824
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: notepad that I got for free. She's strangling a dog

825
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: right now. Real estate agents hit us up on Twitter.

826
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: Real estate agents, tell us about your favorite crimes that

827
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: you've committed. You're all Nazis. You're all Nazis. All real

828
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: estate agents are Nazis, is the stance of this podcast. Now,

829
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: enough of the claims roger Stone made before Congress were

830
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: proven false. That he has been charged with at least

831
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: five counts of making false statements during his testimony. And

832
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: this is, in fact, other than witness tampering like this,

833
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: that's all of the indictment so far have been like

834
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: you lied and you threatened to somebody who was going

835
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: out like a federal witness, which you can't do. Now.

836
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: It appears that the main downfall for roger Stone that

837
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: got him busted by the FBI was his unjustified trust

838
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: in the program What'sapp. Here's a quote from Ours Technica quote.

839
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,760
Speaker 1: He believed that WhatsApp, which he used as a secure

840
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: phone line and for messaging, would protect his communications from

841
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: the eyes of and instigators forgetting that the people he

842
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 1: was talking to could just show the messages to Mower's

843
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: team and a grand jury. He also left an email

844
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: trail of his alleged misdeeds, seemingly spanning a mile wide.

845
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: After Wiki Leaks released email stolen from the Democratic National

846
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: Committee on July two thous and sixteen, quote, a senior

847
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: Trump campaign official was directed to contact Stone about any

848
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: additional releases and what other damaging information Wiki Leaks had

849
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: regarding the Clinton campaign. The indictment states in return, Stone

850
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: reached out to Multiple Association in an attempt to communicate

851
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: with Wiki Leaks and Julian Assange and obtain further Clinton

852
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: related emails. On July two thousand sixteen, Stone emailed Corsi.

853
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: The subject line was get to Julian Assange. The message read,

854
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: get to Julian Assange at Ecuadorian Embassy in London and

855
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: get depending Wiki Leaks emails they deal with Foundation allegedly, Really, Jed,

856
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: don't leave text evidence of your crimes everywhere, Roger, and

857
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 1: then threatened the people who you have an equal copy

858
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: of all of the evidence of your crimes. Don't do that,

859
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: you know. And I as a kid once I killed

860
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 1: a cockroach and I left his body there for the

861
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: other cockroaches to see. And that's what I want him

862
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, I want him to be that cockroach.

863
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: I want him to be a cautionary tale. I'm glad

864
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: he's getting caught. I want him and man afford, I

865
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 1: want a lot of cockroaches strung up on a lot

866
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: of walls because I'm worried about that. What they're inspiring,

867
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, That's why they've got to

868
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: get and that's why whenever people it's the same reason

869
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: like whenever people are like some ninety six year old

870
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: Nazi gets found out and they're like trying to extra

871
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: out into Germany and people like, well he's nineties six.

872
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, take him to court, let him die

873
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: on a plane, make it, make it miserable, make everyone

874
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: else know this is what happens when you do crimes

875
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: like this, Like, we'll get you eventually. Yeah. Now, this

876
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: is the point at which I think we finally get

877
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: an answer to the running question for this whole episode.

878
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: Is Roger Stone actually a political mastermind and evil genius

879
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: or did he just associate himself with a successful people

880
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: and do a good job of hyping up his BS contributions.

881
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: His behavior in two thousand eighteen was definitely the behavior

882
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: of a cornered man, growing increasingly panicked about coming le

883
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: will smackdowns. His appearances on Info Wars grew more common.

884
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: He would regularly attack the Muller investigation as being part

885
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 1: of a deep state cabal, and frequently begged President Trump

886
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: to make use of extreme executive powers to fire Rod

887
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: Rosenstein and shut the whole thing down. It also seems

888
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: to me, at least, that stones rhetoric grew more apocalyptic

889
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: as the noose tightened. Here's a clip from him in

890
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: late two thousand eighteen. You will have a spasm of

891
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 1: violence in this country, an insurrection like you've never saved.

892
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: No question you think if you go in page like,

893
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: the sides are heavily armed, my friend, Yes, absolutely, this

894
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: is not nineteen seventy four. They the people will not

895
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: stand for impeachment. A politician who votes for it would

896
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: be endangering their own life. There will be violence on

897
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: both sides. Yeah, it's threatening people. He's threatening an apocalyptic

898
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: civil war and saying any politician who voted for it

899
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: would have their lives threatened. Yeah, like it's he's sending.

900
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: Those are dog whistle messages. He's standing. Threats are threats

901
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 1: not even done. It's a fucking pigs e or thrown

902
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: right at like a bunch of I don't know how

903
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: to finish that analogy, but you get my point. Most

904
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: of Stone's media appearances over the last year seemed to

905
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: have been a way for him to advertise his go

906
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: fund me legal defense fund. This fund has raised so

907
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: far about seventy eight thousand dollars in the month that's

908
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: been up. Michael Caputa, a former Trump campaign adviser and

909
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: friend of Roger Stone, actually started the campaign. He claims

910
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: that Stone has lost everything in the ongoing legal battle.

911
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: Politico noted that the month before Stone posted an Instagram

912
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 1: picture of himself on a beach, smoking a cigar and

913
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: wearing designer sunglasses, So probably a lie. Like everything else

914
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: Rogerstone has ever said. One group at least has stuck

915
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: with Roger Stone in the wake of his indictment and arrest,

916
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys. Stone started using them as his personal

917
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: security for events in two thousand seventeen and eventually went

918
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: through what they call their first degree initiation. He just

919
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 1: enco to Maya was the day to do this, and

920
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: their whole initiation is around like claiming that, like, I'm

921
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: not going to apologize for creating the world as a

922
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: Western man. I don't know. I don't think it's a

923
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 1: coincidence that he picked Senco to Mile. I think they're

924
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: anything they can do to be a little bit more racist.

925
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,479
Speaker 1: It's really funny. Even even the idea of a white

926
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: race is a lie. Yeah, there is no white race.

927
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: It was a construct. No such thing. Hang out with

928
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: a Russian, hang with an Irishman. It's not the same thing.

929
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: And the and the Proud Boys are a little smarter

930
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: than talking about the white race. They claimed Western civilization.

931
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: That's their catch all, because then you don't have to

932
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: all be white, but you can still essentially sta welcome

933
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,759
Speaker 1: to them. Then embrace your Middle Eastern side, because that's

934
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: what Iran is. Iran is supposed to be the birthplace

935
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: of the real white people. That's why it sounds like Arian.

936
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: It's Iran. So so get your white loafers out and

937
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: your Capri one hundreds. Yeah, and start calling people my

938
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 1: friend if you really want to be the origin of

939
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: white oh man, and get way better cooking lamb, way

940
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: better at cooking. We cannot cook a goddamn lamb in

941
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: this country to save our lives. It's just it's a trick.

942
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 1: It's all a trick. And it's when a powerful white

943
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: man tells a poor white man that he's just like him,

944
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: it's hypnotizing. Well, that's exactly Roger Stone talks about as

945
00:47:58,680 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: a young man, being like, I'm going to be the

946
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: bridge between working class white people and rich white people.

947
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: That's exactly what he's always been about. Yeah, so of

948
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: course he would like the Proud Boys. One prominent Proud

949
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: Boy is currently selling Roger Stone did Nothing Wrong t shirts.

950
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: When he was arraigned last Monday, several Proud Boys provided

951
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: an escort enchanted their vocal support of the man. We

952
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: even't talked much about Roger stones style obsession in this podcast.

953
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: I just it's not really funny. Like I read a

954
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: bunch of what he wrote. It's just like pretentious stuff

955
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: for people who care about suits and whatnot. Which if

956
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: that's your thing, that's fine. Everybody's got to have a thing. Um,

957
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: But there is a way in which that became a

958
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: source of some shot in freuda for me. Starting I

959
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: think in the Stone became increasingly enamored with ostentatious outfits,

960
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: generally dressing like someone who lives to fight Batman. He

961
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: became the Daily Callers men's style correspondent and also writes

962
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: a ten best and worst dress list every year, and

963
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: most of these columns. Stones header image is a picture

964
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 1: of himself dressed as and wielding a gun like James Bond.

965
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: He clearly views himself as a slick, badass political operator

966
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: and wants others to see him that way too. That

967
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 1: reputation has been punctured by a long series of dumb mistakes,

968
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: many of them in his appearances on info Wars. Mistakes

969
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: like claiming exiled Chinese businessmen Guo Wan Gui had been

970
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: convicted of financial crimes and donated illegally to Hillary Clinton

971
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: and Steve Bannon. None of this was true. Stone and

972
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: Info Wars were sued for a hundred million dollars, and

973
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 1: last year Roger Stone was forced to make an on

974
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: air public apology for having failed to do proper research.

975
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: He's almost seventy. Yeah, that's why I keep reminding myself

976
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: the way he behaves. Yeah, he's a grandfather. He is

977
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: a grandfather. He's almost seventy. And this is how he acts,

978
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: This is how he behaves. This is the philosophy he

979
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: has that he's a spy and a badass and uses

980
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 1: all this tough guy language, and really he's the one

981
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: who sees himself naked and weak and his bones getting

982
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 1: softer and his muscles starting to sag. He can't beat time, No,

983
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: nobody can. Nobody can Patrick Stewart other than Patrick, you know,

984
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: he's really nail time hate. Maybe a greater motivator. But

985
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: love makes your skin look better when you get older. Yeah, man,

986
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 1: he looks so good. He looks great. Yeah. Now, despite

987
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: all of Roger Stone's claims to being a sly badass,

988
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: brilliant Nixonian style political operator, Roger Stone has proven to

989
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: just be a bad criminal who got lucky for a while.

990
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: He's not a badass, He's just bad. In the wake

991
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: of his indictment, Roger Stone has whined incessantly about having

992
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: roughly as much force used against him in his apprehension

993
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: as a small time pot dealer in Texas. Stone complained

994
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: that he wasn't called ahead of time to give him

995
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: a chance to dress up and look his best for

996
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: the cameras. Instead, he was photographed in a simple blue

997
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 1: polo shirt. When he was released later that day, he

998
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: had to give his press conference looking like a normal

999
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: elderly man and not the penguin. It is a moment

1000
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: of great schadenfreude for me, and we are going to

1001
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 1: in the episode by playing the clip of his press conference.

1002
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: Love it and arrested it defined schadenfreude. I'm taking pleasure

1003
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: in the misfortune of others. German like that. Yeah, it's

1004
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: a great word. You here, Thank you well, thank you.

1005
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: As I have always said, the only thing worse than

1006
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: being talked about is not being talked about. Jafter a

1007
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: two year inquisition, the charges today relate in no way

1008
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: to rushing collusion, wicky leaks, collaboration, or any under illegal

1009
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: act and connection for the twixteen campaign. I am falsely

1010
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: accused of making false statements during my testimony to the

1011
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: House Intelligence Committee. That is incorrect. Any any error I

1012
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: made in my testimony would be both immaterial and without intent.

1013
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 1: All right, I want that on my iTunes. Yeah, it's

1014
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: it feels good, Right, it feels good. It's like squeegee

1015
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 1: for your soul. So it makes me believe in God

1016
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 1: and Santa Claus. Lock him up, Lock him Up sounds

1017
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: Oh it's so nice. Oh it's like a pizza after

1018
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: smoking weed. So satisfying. I'm not normally a big fan

1019
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: of chanting as part of a crowd. That would have

1020
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: been a fun crowd to chant as part of and

1021
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 1: believe me as an Arab in America. The only time,

1022
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: the only time I like people chanting Usa, Usa, Usa

1023
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: is during the Olympics. Yeah. Outside of that, I'm like,

1024
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: you're chanting lock him up at Roger Stone. Man. Oh,

1025
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: it's so good. It's like emotional bubble wrap, so pleased

1026
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: to eat it all. Yeah, it does a lead down.

1027
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: Give me the bread to sop up the sauce. Yeah, yeah,

1028
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 1: that tastes good. That tastes good. At the end of

1029
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: this this gross tale Shotenfreudreud. Yeah, taking pleasure, pleasure in

1030
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: the misfortune of others. And like great German word word. Yeah,

1031
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 1: they're they're really great at making single words for things.

1032
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 1: Although this is like the joy of seeing justice. Yeah,

1033
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: there's a little bit like this is justified the beginning

1034
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: of it anyway. Yeah, it's the start of a process

1035
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: of justice that hopefully leads him dying in a cell. Yeah.

1036
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in rehabilitation. But if you're seventy

1037
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: and doing the ship Roger Stone has been doing for

1038
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, I couldn't agree more. Probably

1039
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: not gonna get rehabbed, be not allowed in society anymore,

1040
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: save with Paul Manafort. You know, if you're if your

1041
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: crime is selling drugs or even beating someone, even even

1042
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: accidentally killing an individual, even killing someone in in the

1043
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: in the throes of a sudden rage, I believe in

1044
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: some sort of like rehabilitation for you, but if your

1045
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: crime is conspiring to thwart the liberty of millions of

1046
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: people around the world, I don't believe in rehabilitating that.

1047
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a crazy thing to see someone who came

1048
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: that was like, you know, I came from a dad

1049
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: that was abusive, and he had PTSD from war, and

1050
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: I had a drinking problem. He had everything against him.

1051
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: But I could always look back and say, I understand

1052
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: the dynamics of abuse, so I understand that he was

1053
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: abused to and then the guy that bit him was

1054
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: like a vampire. And then I had to go to

1055
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 1: therapy so I could be like one of the vampires

1056
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: on Twilight, Like there was like, sure there was a cause,

1057
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: there was an origin, and that's why you're great at baseball.

1058
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But with him, you just look at this

1059
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: and I still at the end of it, even if

1060
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: they're satisfaction, I just go, why it's a sad story?

1061
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 1: Is it usually is with these guys? Yah? Yeah, And

1062
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: there's really like it's a man who I don't think

1063
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: ever had anything at the center of himself that he

1064
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: was proud of. So he was proud of his ability

1065
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: to do things for other people he admired whether and

1066
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: at first people who didn't know him, like when he's

1067
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: he's lying about Nixon to so that he can get

1068
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: you know, his class to vote for JFK. And then

1069
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: he gradually gets like the first one of these guys

1070
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: that he works for that he gets any work close

1071
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: to Richard Nixon. He just loves the rest of his

1072
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: life because Nixon spent time with him, Like he wasn't

1073
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: a part of Nixon's staff, but they hung out together

1074
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: and stuff, and so I really do you see he

1075
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: doesn't say a lot about it other than like fawning

1076
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: praise for Nition, But you see pictures of Nixon and

1077
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: Roger Stone, and he very much has that doting son

1078
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: looking and even his office is like like a shrine,

1079
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 1: shrine to Richard Nixon Nixon. It's so crazy. It would

1080
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: even be one thing like a guy like L B. J.

1081
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: Who like killed a lot of people in Vietnam. But

1082
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: you could also be like, well, but then there's the

1083
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,240
Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act, and like, I can see how someone

1084
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: could like, even with this guy's really problematic legacy, I

1085
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: could see how someone who worked for him could be

1086
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: still loyal to that memory Nixon and and some of

1087
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: the stuff and some of the stuff he kept was

1088
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: like neg anti Nixon stuff. That shows he just doesn't

1089
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: care about he just bad about. Yeah, he just wants

1090
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,439
Speaker 1: attention because again his parents whenever. I don't know, there's

1091
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: always a thin line in this show between trying to

1092
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 1: give it a tail history of these people in psychoanalyzing them.

1093
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: You can't avoid it entirely though, when you read quotes

1094
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,280
Speaker 1: like how Roger describes his childhood and then just see

1095
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 1: what his adult life is. I mean, his life couldn't

1096
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: have been easy. He was a child with doll hair.

1097
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: Yeah that is that is a child bodybuilder with a

1098
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:24,399
Speaker 1: Nixon child. I just imagine a shrunk version of him.

1099
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: That's it. He's always been that guy. He was always

1100
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: had that tattoo, and I was back even he was breastfeeding.

1101
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: You know, one of the great forever untold stories of

1102
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: history will be the sheer impact and damage that insecure

1103
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: male egos have had in our society, even in places

1104
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: where you wouldn't expect it. You wouldn't expect Dwight D.

1105
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: Eisenhower didn't give off a lot of impulses of being

1106
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 1: an insecure man. But then you see what he was

1107
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: doodling when we overthrew Guatemala, when he heard that, like

1108
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: he'd successfully instituted a coup in this country, and he

1109
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 1: drew a picture of himself young and swollen, like muscular,

1110
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,959
Speaker 1: next to a battleship flexing, and it's like, yeah, dude,

1111
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 1: you had some issues. That's not normal, that's weird. Our

1112
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: whole lives. We hear how how hard it is for

1113
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: women that they lose their beauty, but we don't talk

1114
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: about fading power. Yeah, you know, like I grew up

1115
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: in a really rough neighborhood. Nice to be a scary

1116
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: looking guy, and I'm sleeved in tattoos, But I'm a

1117
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: nicer person now and I go to go to therapy

1118
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: the But the one thing I miss is when I

1119
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 1: walked down the street, that people move away from me

1120
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: because you're like, you're big and muscular and stuff, And

1121
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: there's something about that. As much as I hated who

1122
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: I was back then, I missed that feeling. Yeah, you know,

1123
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: human pit bull. There's not a lot of training in

1124
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: our society for young men to get used to the

1125
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: fact that they will someday not have the kind of

1126
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: physical power they had. This is something I really admired

1127
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: my grand before. My grandpa was a really big guy

1128
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: six ft five, six ft six something like that, and

1129
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: he was he was military most of his life, fought

1130
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,919
Speaker 1: in Korea. Was like a very big, very imposing man.

1131
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: But the last ten or fifteen years of his life,

1132
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: he was just completely debilitated with Parkinson's, couldn't really move.

1133
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: But I never got never, ever, ever, of all the

1134
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: of the emotions that I saw from him, none of

1135
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: them was anger. None of them was like lashing out

1136
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: at people over the fact that I could tell he

1137
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: was frustrated obviously not being able to control his body anymore.

1138
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: Um And I don't think a guy like Roger Stone

1139
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,960
Speaker 1: or a guy like Dwight D. Eisenhower or whatever, I

1140
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: don't think. I don't think they got that at any point,

1141
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 1: that attitude of like, Okay, you're going to be able

1142
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 1: to control the world around you less as you get older,

1143
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: because that's just life. And that's why we have society

1144
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 1: and civilization. We all work together to take care of

1145
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: each other because when we get weaker, we need more help.

1146
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: You know. They don't get that, And that's where libertarians

1147
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: come from the dangerous language in our society. This is

1148
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 1: a friend of mine reminded me the other night, like

1149
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: boys don't cry? Is it phrase? It turns us in

1150
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: a men that don't talk. It's like women grow up

1151
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: in possible physical standards, but really men grow up with

1152
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: impossible emotional ones. Yeah. And when something bad happens a

1153
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: little boy, if he's not able to talk, can he

1154
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: turn into something evil and dark and twisted and upside down?

1155
00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: If the alternative which is admitting like weakness and uh

1156
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: in pain and a need for help? If that is

1157
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: literally unthinkable because of the society he's been raised in,

1158
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 1: Like yeah, what else does he do but like get violent? Yeah? Yeah,

1159
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: this is like a worldwide problem. I Agreeviously, I agree.

1160
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: I went to college in Sweden and I saw a

1161
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: movie there. It was Judge dread Ship, the original, the original.

1162
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: I was going to college so its class wasn't starting

1163
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: for three weeks, so we went to see Jack Dread

1164
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: and it was rated X and I was like, alone's

1165
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 1: making porn. So then I wasn't going to watch it,

1166
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: but a bunch of people were going in. I'm like, screwed,

1167
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: I'll go in. I go regular movie. Two weeks later,

1168
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: I see a movie with a Swedish friend, a Swedish

1169
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: movie rated PG, and his nephews next to us, and

1170
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: a guy pulls down his pants and his penises out

1171
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: there and he's shaking it around and and I'm in shock,

1172
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: and the little kids just eating Swedish Swedish fish. You know,

1173
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 1: it's just a penis, just a penis. And then my

1174
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: friend goes, oh, I forgot you from America. Yeah, you

1175
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: guys rate your movies by sex. We rate our movies

1176
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: by violence. Yeah, And I just felt like a monkey. No.

1177
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: And it's it makes more sense, Yeah, it really does.

1178
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,439
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of I mean, we could, we could,

1179
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: we could go down this rabbit hole for forever. So

1180
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: we're well off. I mean, don't apologize because it's it's

1181
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: a subject that's never not interesting to me. Um. You know,

1182
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: it's the difference between uh as a little kid, I

1183
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: I started shooting guns when I was six or seven.

1184
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: My uncle came over and he taught me how to shoot,

1185
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: and we we we did some hunting and stuff like that.

1186
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's unhealthy, but I think playing

1187
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: with guns, the way I played with guns as a

1188
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: little kid was unhealthy. I think that's bad for you.

1189
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 1: I think that like fetishization of violence and power and

1190
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: then coming into a world and I think there's this

1191
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: I think video games give it to you too, where

1192
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: you get used to in this one little aspect of

1193
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: your life, this fantasy aspect, having all this control and

1194
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: being able to be the arbiter of who lives and

1195
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 1: dies and all this stuff, and you go into the

1196
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 1: real world where you have none of that control because

1197
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: it's the world and there's other people doing their own

1198
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: things and you can't just be buying. That's where the

1199
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 1: all right comes from. That like dichotomy, that like mental disconnect.

1200
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think people masturbate to the

1201
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: alt right the way people who don't have sex masturbate

1202
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: to porn stars. Yeah, they're behaving in a way and

1203
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 1: doing things that I can't do, but I wish I can. Yeah. Yeah,

1204
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: it's that. That's why these guys focus on Nazis or whatever.

1205
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: Who just guy got rid of all the people they

1206
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: don't like, because all these little kids in their rooms

1207
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 1: just have a bunch of hate for people who won't

1208
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,919
Speaker 1: go away, the way their enemies and the video game.

1209
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Well yeah, And I guess that's why Roger Stone embraced

1210
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys and the Alt Rights so definitively, because

1211
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, he didn't have video

1212
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: games to grow up with. But he is that guy.

1213
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: He is that guy wearing fancy suits and calling his

1214
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 1: suspenders braces so that he can be better than everybody

1215
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 1: and control his world more. We brought it back around.

1216
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: We brought it back around. You're not You're a poet

1217
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: to me. You want to plug your plug doubles. Sure,

1218
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a live comedy with a political bent,

1219
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: you could find all my live shows in and around

1220
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: l A and around the country at tamer Kittan dot com.

1221
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: T A m e r k A t t a

1222
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: n my podcast as they tried to bury us UM.

1223
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: Every week we have a new American origin story from

1224
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: a different immigrant. And I'm tamer Cat on all things

1225
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,480
Speaker 1: social media and you can find me on the twitts,

1226
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: the tweet at I right, okay, that's me on the

1227
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: on the twarts. And you can find this podcast on

1228
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: the internet at Behind the Bastards dot com. You can

1229
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 1: find us on the social meds at at Bastards pod.

1230
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: You can buy a shirt. You can buy a cut

1231
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,640
Speaker 1: very cool shirts by thank You very Great Shirts. You

1232
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: can buy scale models of the spaceship from Aliens, all

1233
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: from t public dot com, all branded with our don't

1234
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 1: tell James Cameron that it's very illegal, but for a

1235
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: limited time, until we get a takedown request, we will

1236
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 1: be selling all of that stuff. James Cameron has sex

1237
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,800
Speaker 1: in bikinies really well, Roger Stone said it. Oh well,

1238
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: I mean then it's gotta be true. It's gotta be true. Well,

1239
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: let's all leave you guys on that, on that absolutely

1240
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 1: true note from from our but you Roger Stone m