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Speaker 1: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm

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Speaker 1: Jess Cosavetto, executive producer of the Netflix series Dancing for

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Speaker 1: the Devil the Seven M TikTok Cult. This documentary series

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Speaker 1: explored the story of Robert Schinn, the La based Chakina

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Speaker 1: Church and Seven M Films. Shin founded Chakina Church over

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Speaker 1: two decades ago before establishing seven M Films and is

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Speaker 1: named in a civil lawsuit alleging abuse and cult like behavior.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Kalia Gray, former member of Chicaina Church and

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Speaker 2: seven M Films. So I've been really interested in exploring

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Speaker 2: other high control groups and cults and the people who

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Speaker 2: are at the forefront of these groups. Today, Jess, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to introduce you to a man who went to

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Speaker 2: create a school that applies so many different things into one. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So we have spirituality, martial arts, secret societies, magic, mysticism,

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Speaker 2: pyramid schemes, and djaying and that's just scratching the service.

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Speaker 1: No not dj yes, oh boy, Okay. What is this called.

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Speaker 2: It's called the Modern Mystery School. So the Modern Mystery

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Speaker 2: School describes its mission on its website as quote to

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Speaker 2: create world peace by empowering individuals to find peace within

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Speaker 2: themselves in service to all humanity, to assist in the

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Speaker 2: ascension of the human consciousness on this planet. This is

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Speaker 2: a mission the school and its lineage holders have been

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Speaker 2: working towards for over three thousand years. The purpose of

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Speaker 2: the school is to help people achieve their highest spiritual

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Speaker 2: potential in this physical life while living a life of

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Speaker 2: joy fulfillment and life that sounds fine, right.

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Speaker 1: Sure, all things that we all want us to try for.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right, the things that we want out of life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the origins of this school all begin with a

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Speaker 2: man from Iceland by the name of Goodney Goodninsen. So

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Speaker 2: this school as it exists today is the product of

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Speaker 2: this one man's vision. The school claims to be the

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Speaker 2: continuation of a three thousand year old mystical tradition dating

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Speaker 2: all the way back to King Solomon.

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Speaker 1: I'm buckling up for this one. We're going way back.

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Speaker 2: But there's not a lot of historical evidence to support this.

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Speaker 2: He also claims to also be a descendant of the

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Speaker 2: god Thor.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy. I want to say, like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: this is like so incredibly out there, but then I

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Speaker 1: think about scientology and how this man wrote a sci

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Speaker 1: fi book and then managed to get all these followers

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Speaker 1: to follow along based on theatan's being dropped into a

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Speaker 1: volcano and infiltrating your body. I'm like, sorry, what, so,

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Speaker 1: maybe a descendant of the god Thor is not that

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Speaker 1: crazy when you compare it to like scientology.

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Speaker 2: So okay, just you wait, okay, okay, so let's get

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Speaker 2: deeper into Goodney. Okay. He was born a twin, but

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Speaker 2: he claims that his brother died thirty minutes after birth,

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Speaker 2: and he says especially because of that, he's described his

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Speaker 2: early years in very mystical terms. He claims he spent

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Speaker 2: more time with his twin in a spiritual sense than

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Speaker 2: in his own body. He once stated, my soul was

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Speaker 2: not in my body. He also stated that he was

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Speaker 2: raised by angels and by the age of ten, faced

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Speaker 2: a choice whether to stay in the physical realm or

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Speaker 2: join his brother in the spiritual world. He wrestled with

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Speaker 2: this decision a little bit for about three years, and

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Speaker 2: then claims that at the age of thirteen, he realized

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Speaker 2: he needed to share his knowledge with the physical world.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the thing that doesn't sound so crazy to me,

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Speaker 1: because when you think about twins. People talk about how

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Speaker 1: they have like a deep connection. Like it's weird. Don't

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Speaker 1: get me wrong, it starts to get weird there of

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Speaker 1: what you were saying, But like, we're not deep. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm following. I'm following a descendant of Thorbe.

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Speaker 1: We're I'm still stuck on that one. That one's still

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Speaker 1: I'm still a little bit out there. But I can

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Speaker 1: only imagine where this is going.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So his life, Goodney took many turns. He's claimed

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Speaker 2: to have trained in multiple mystery schools across Tibet, Africa, Transylvania,

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Speaker 2: and Japan. Different online sources describe him as a martial

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Speaker 2: arts master, a doctor of metaphysics, and even a trainer

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Speaker 2: for the Dali Lama's bodyguards. In his twenties, Goodney connected

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Speaker 2: with the Icelandic martial artists Hakor and Jor Hordson. He

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Speaker 2: appeared with them in the nineteen eighty four film When

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Speaker 2: the Raven Flies and later follows them to Sweden, leaving

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Speaker 2: behind his wife and child. He became involved in their

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Speaker 2: performance group and then event branched out on his own,

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Speaker 2: so by nineteen ninety two he was advertising classes in

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Speaker 2: kimiwasa claiming mastery over what he describes as a sixteen

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Speaker 2: hundred year old martial art. The Wholeri Sins, however, insisted

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Speaker 2: that they had invented the discipline themselves just fifteen years prior,

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Speaker 2: and Hakor Horsen later said he was not qualified for

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Speaker 2: that and didn't ask me, So now we know what

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Speaker 2: kind of man he is. And following this he was

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Speaker 2: ordered to stop teaching. Kimi wasa so the two people

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Speaker 2: who he had linked up for this group, they claimed

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Speaker 2: that they had created this martial art fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 2: But here comes good Me saying that no, this is

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Speaker 2: a sixteen hundred year old martial art and begins spreading that,

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Speaker 2: and they ordered him to stop teaching Kimiswa. Still he

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Speaker 2: persisted in promoting his own spiritual and martial arts teaching.

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Speaker 2: He briefly ran a bodyguard school and then a gym

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Speaker 2: offered in crystal healing and energy massage. In Iceland, he

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Speaker 2: was denounced by the National Karate and Judo Associations and

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety five he was suspended for possessing an

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Speaker 2: air rifle. Facing mounting debts and legal troubles, he left

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Speaker 2: Iceland and headed for Can you guess where he's gonna

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Speaker 2: come Utah?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Yes, headed straight for Utah. This is forgive me for

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Speaker 2: I have followed. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now

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Speaker 1: back to our conversation. This is a lot so far.

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Speaker 1: Jim bodyguard school, energy healing with crystals.

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Speaker 2: Creating backstories for martial arts that other people have created.

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Speaker 1: Well, if he's connected into a different spiritual realm, then yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was created back sixteen hundred years ago. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but I'm leaning in. Let's go to Utah.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what let's good?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So Goodney heads to America, goes to Utah, dabbled

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Speaker 2: in bodyguard work and then formed connections with employees of

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Speaker 2: the multi level marketing company Amway. So, if you don't know,

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Speaker 2: Amway is a global multi level marketing or an MLM

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Speaker 2: company that sells a wide range of products including health, beauty,

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Speaker 2: and home care items. The way it works is by

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Speaker 2: recruiting independent distributors who earned commissions based on their sales

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Speaker 2: and the sales made by the distributors that they recruit.

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Speaker 2: This has been around since nineteen fifty eight, so think

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Speaker 2: like Avon, Mary kay rbal life was really big for

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Speaker 2: me when I was coming out of high school. I

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Speaker 2: knew a lot of folks that tapped into the erbal

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Speaker 2: life life.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Avon was big with me growing up. I

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Speaker 1: actually think my mom sold Avon for a little while.

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Speaker 1: It was like a store to door, you know, had

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Speaker 1: these booklets all this like cool stuff. It was almost

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Speaker 1: like when you're on a plane and you get your

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Speaker 1: sky mall the catalog and you're like looking at all

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Speaker 1: those things. So okay, yes, familiar and of course familiar

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Speaker 1: with Mary kay in her life. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So Goodney forms connections with amwayfolk and then goes on

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Speaker 2: to Mary Lurie Secrist, who is a psychic with a

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Speaker 2: very well established business. So they came together and founded

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Speaker 2: the Triolite Foundation, selling products like an Elixir of Life

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Speaker 2: for thirty four and ninety five per month. They also

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Speaker 2: launched the Edge Bodyguard Services, advertising expertise in school security

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Speaker 2: and combat training, and neither of their ventures found much success.

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Speaker 1: Shocker, right, yeah, because I'm like, what is an elixir

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Speaker 1: of life?

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Speaker 2: And it's a monthly elixir?

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Speaker 1: Like what? Interesting?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is where the more paranormal things come into

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Speaker 2: play and the creation of the modern Mystery School as

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Speaker 2: we know it today. So, on May twenty first, nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety eight, Goodney and Laurie, his new wife, claimed to

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Speaker 2: have witnessed an alien ship crashed into a lake. They

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Speaker 2: stated that they were taken abroad and granted knowledge of

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Speaker 2: hidden spiritual technologies. This, they said, formed the foundation of

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Speaker 2: the Mystery School's teachings, particularly a technique known as DNA activation.

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Speaker 2: We got to the aliens. So then in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 2: Goodsin and Secres rebrand their business and the new organization,

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Speaker 2: Rocky Mountain Mystery School was launched.

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Speaker 1: I mean entrepreneur. Entrepreneur, he's always thinking of new ideas.

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Speaker 2: Entrepreneur, you know, multifaceted, multifaceted.

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Speaker 1: What can I sell today? Okay?

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Speaker 2: What can I sell today?

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Speaker 1: Sweat? I'm selling my sweat today from my bodyguard uniform. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So, according to Goodney, humans have twenty four strands of DNA,

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Speaker 2: twelve physical and twelve spiritual, and he a learned how

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Speaker 2: to activate all twenty four of them.

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Speaker 1: Of course he did, okay.

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Speaker 2: Taking the things that he learned from Amway, Goodney structured

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Speaker 2: the school with a heavy emphasis on recruitment. Within three years,

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Speaker 2: it spread beyond Utah. They had chapters forming in Canada, England, Sweden,

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Speaker 2: and by the early two thousands it was a multi

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Speaker 2: million dollar spiritual enterprise with international reach. He really was

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Speaker 2: a master marketer and that helped him grow an idea

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Speaker 2: into something so large and so grand like the school.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I mean he's an idea guy for sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's tried. He tried multiple things failed, but.

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Speaker 2: He picked up and tried again, tried again. In two

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Speaker 2: thousand and six, he and his wife Lori split. She

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Speaker 2: continued running the Triolite Foundation and Goodney rebranded his side

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Speaker 2: of the operation as the Modern Mystery School. So he

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Speaker 2: ended up moving to Tokyo and then married a former student,

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Speaker 2: and he delegated some of the school's expansion to other people. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so that is the backstory of this eclectic and charismatic leader.

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Speaker 2: So let's get into the structure of the school and

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Speaker 2: why it is being called a pyramid scheme by critics.

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Speaker 2: So students have to pay thousands of dollars for each

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Speaker 2: level of initiation at the Modern Mystery School. According to

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Speaker 2: a Vice article, one student, Alice, describes never being paid

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Speaker 2: despite taking on lots of responsibilities, so she would be

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Speaker 2: organizing school events and recruiting hundreds of students and other

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Speaker 2: students have been quoted by saying they were spending upwards

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Speaker 2: of eighty thousand dollars easily to maintain their ranks and certifications.

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Speaker 2: In the modern Mystery school, initiates are encouraged to quit

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Speaker 2: their jobs, recruit new students, and invest everything that they

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Speaker 2: have into the teachings, which is a very common theme

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Speaker 2: that we have seen through multiple of these groups that

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Speaker 2: we've covered on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: And again the Alice describe that Choose was never paid. Yep,

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Speaker 1: all sounding very familiar.

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Speaker 2: It's checking the boxes. So in the modern mystery school,

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Speaker 2: you have two paths, a healer or a warrior, and

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Speaker 2: in these two paths, there are different ranks for people

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Speaker 2: who progress along the school's rankings. Those who ascend the

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Speaker 2: healer path become guides, while those on the warrior path

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Speaker 2: become ritual masters. Each rank requires deeper financial and emotional investment,

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Speaker 2: and there's a series of initiations for these rising up

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Speaker 2: in the ranks, which are ceremonies that indicate the student's

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Speaker 2: progress to a new rank in the hierarchy. Which marks

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Speaker 2: their journey throughout mystery school. And you've guessed it. Each

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Speaker 2: one of these initiations cost money.

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Speaker 1: When we returned, the conclusion of our conversation, this is

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Speaker 1: forgive me for I have followed.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Here's

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Speaker 2: the conclusion of our conversation.

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Speaker 1: This is sounding very reminiscent to scientology. You're taking all

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Speaker 1: of these courses to go clear, but in order to

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Speaker 1: do that, you have to pay quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: money in order to get there. Although when you did

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Speaker 1: first start talking about this, I felt like you were

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Speaker 1: describing the rules to a game, like we just pulled

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Speaker 1: out like Catan or something, and you're like, ohh we've

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Speaker 1: got guides, we've got warriors, when we've got ritual masters,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, where are we going?

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Speaker 2: Okay. So, one former student reported that the school would

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Speaker 2: invalidate students' financial concerns, encouraging them to manifest the money

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Speaker 2: to pay for training. So quote, they'd say, oh, that's

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Speaker 2: your poverty mindset. You have to break through that and

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Speaker 2: spend the money. Unquote. I've heard that before, that concept

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Speaker 2: of like, oh, poverty mindset, it's just the way you're

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Speaker 2: thinking you should be manifesting more money and then you

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Speaker 2: would be getting blessed. So another student confirms this type

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Speaker 2: of mentality and just the general ethos of the school

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Speaker 2: in regards to raising up in the ranks, obviously paying

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Speaker 2: more money at each step of initiation. So the student said, quote,

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Speaker 2: the Mystery School always blamed you. Your ego was in

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Speaker 2: the way. You weren't meditating enough. It was your fault

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Speaker 2: if things didn't work, which we heard a lot also

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Speaker 2: in Chicina, as far as like you're not praying enough,

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Speaker 2: you're not getting close to God enough. If you were

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Speaker 2: doing what you were supposed to be doing behind closed doors,

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Speaker 2: God would be blessing you. So yeah, In a similar way,

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Speaker 2: the school always had more opportunities for students to invest

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Speaker 2: in their path. So students forwarded the Vice reporter emails

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Speaker 2: where they were invited to be part of quote School

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Speaker 2: of the Mage, which costs more than eighty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and consisted of ten weekends of personal teaching with Goodney,

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Speaker 2: and in the emails, Goodney says, quote, it is the

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Speaker 2: highest training of them all, the top of the pyramid train.

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Speaker 2: Even though there's always more to learn.

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Speaker 1: This sounds like those acting coaches that we talked about

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, where they were like encouraging people

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Speaker 1: to go on these retreats and how you can get

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Speaker 1: a deeper understanding of their teachings and spirituality and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. So it's like here we go again.

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Speaker 2: M hmm. Okay. So recruitment is a very key part

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Speaker 2: of the modern mystery school's business model. So guides, remember guides,

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Speaker 2: they were the higher ranking of the modern mystery school

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Speaker 2: path they're told that they have to reach a certain

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Speaker 2: target of recruits. Some students also told Vice that they

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Speaker 2: were required to sign non disclosure agreement in NDA, in

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Speaker 2: which they state that they will always speak in good

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Speaker 2: and positive terms about the school and its teachers. Now

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Speaker 2: pause really quick, just because every time I hear this,

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Speaker 2: I like to remind people that, like, and even if

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Speaker 2: you sign an NDA, if it is criminal activity, you

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Speaker 2: can still report it. NDAs do not absolve from criminal activity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a good reminder because it's a way

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Speaker 1: to try to control the narrative on behalf of people

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Speaker 1: on the inside. But also it's fear mongoling. Really, you're

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Speaker 1: just trying to implement fear that if you do anything

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Speaker 1: and you step out of it, then there's going to

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Speaker 1: be legal action, and that's where you have these litigious

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Speaker 1: people that are just slapped in people with lawsuits the

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Speaker 1: way that Oprah gives way.

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Speaker 2: Keys, right.

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Speaker 1: I think also one of the things that when you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the guides, it kind of brought me back to

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Speaker 1: mentors too, where like you create this like system within

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Speaker 1: that like has people competitive, whether it be with themselves

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Speaker 1: or other people, to try to gain higher status and

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Speaker 1: that growth mentality of like I want to continue growing

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Speaker 1: and I want to get to the top. And in

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Speaker 1: this case they're having people just pay pay, pay, pay,

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Speaker 1: take all these additional courses, so a lot to process.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting. Is this still happening today because that was

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Speaker 1: kind of all from the nineties, right.

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Speaker 2: And early two thousands, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Early two thousands, So are they still around today today?

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Speaker 2: The Modern Mystery School has locations in a lot of

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Speaker 2: different so it has branches in North America, Europe, Asia,

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Speaker 2: and Australia. There are numerous certified instructors and practitioners who

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Speaker 2: teach the school's programs and offer services such as life

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Speaker 2: activation sessions and various different spiritual courses, and there is

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Speaker 2: even allegations of Miley Cyrus and Shawn Mendes being in

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Speaker 2: the mix, all allegedly, but some celebrity endorsements. No, I

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Speaker 2: hope not allegedly. Goodney himself these days is producing films

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Speaker 2: and djaying and working on his spirituality practice, still continuing

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Speaker 2: martial arts of course, and dabbling in fashion as well. Wow,

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Speaker 2: busy man, busy man.

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Speaker 1: I mean it has given me Robert chinbhemems. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna lie where he's like. I'm doing film, I'm also

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Speaker 1: doing management. I'm also a realtor and a broker. Oh

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Speaker 1: and I'm also a pastor.

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Speaker 2: You know what? You what just unlocked for me. Shinn

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Speaker 2: also talked about being a DJ stop. Yes, in his

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Speaker 2: college days. He talked about how he would DJ at

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Speaker 2: the parties because he was just such a cool guy.

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Speaker 2: He's not a regular pastor, he's a cool pastor. I

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Speaker 2: forgot about that until just now.

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Speaker 1: Memory unlocked.

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Speaker 2: Is there a cult leader to like DJ Pipeline or

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Speaker 2: a DJ to cult leader Pipeline.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm just saying that those two things

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Speaker 2: are very coincidental.

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Speaker 1: So it's gonna lead us to intro our next guest DJ.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding, we don't have a guest but crazy okay. Interesting. Also,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry now I just can't like from the dock

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Speaker 1: when Robert is like this pumping on the pulpit and

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Speaker 1: he's dancing, that's like all I can picture him doing

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Speaker 1: if he was a DJ. So anyways, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that's a weird visual. But okay, Goodney over here producing.

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Speaker 2: Djaying, yes, dabbling in fashion.

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Speaker 1: He's dabbling in it all apparently.

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Speaker 2: So nowadays, it's really hard to pinpoint the number of

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Speaker 2: members because they act like a secret society. But the

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Speaker 2: school's reach is broad and reportedly there's thousands of people

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Speaker 2: attending its events and participating in its programs. The school

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Speaker 2: also holds a lot of like really large scale events

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Speaker 2: and retreats and workshops worldwide, which really demonstrates its size

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Speaker 2: and international presence. He is mister Worldwide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I give him the title mister world Wide.

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Speaker 2: That's Pitbul, that's Pitbul.

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Speaker 1: Bad it him too, Okay, So googling this man. Okay,

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Speaker 1: first off, I think there's a picture of him DJing,

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Speaker 1: which is his own. Look. Okay, so here's the deal.

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Speaker 1: Picture Chris Pine in his fifties heading to Coachella, long hair,

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Speaker 1: pulled back, a little bit of a swaggy the retro aufhit.

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Speaker 1: He's a character. He looks like he would play D

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Speaker 1: and D, which is there's nothing wrong with that, my

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Speaker 1: family place. But he really leaned into this descendant of

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Speaker 1: Thor with the long ponytail, and hearing that man talk,

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Speaker 1: I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I know you're a little

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Speaker 1: bit out there. You're a little bit weird and quirky.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he has thousands of people still subscribe

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Speaker 2: to the teachings, I mean, I guess, like you said,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of outlandish ideas out there, a lot.

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Speaker 2: His is just so many, It's so many in one.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this one was out there. Still crossing my fingers,

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Speaker 1: Miley did not get sucked into something so out there. Again.

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Speaker 1: All about people trying to seek ways to better themselves

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Speaker 1: and find a closer connection in spiritual ways, whether that

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Speaker 1: be through God and Christianity or however. But this sounds

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Speaker 1: to me like another person that is taking advantage of

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Speaker 1: people by utilizing these marketing schemes or utilizing I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say with this one.

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Speaker 1: This one's like he's all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Right, And you know, it just just gives a little

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Speaker 2: bit of like potential financial manipulation, because it does feel

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Speaker 2: like eighty thousand dollars for a rank that seems outlandish, yes,

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Speaker 2: and you know it's to me, it's just interesting always

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Speaker 2: how a lot of these groups have the similarities. They

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Speaker 2: have really popular techniques and tactics that work, and so

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Speaker 2: as wild as it's like, man, there's like thousands of

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Speaker 2: people that reportedly attend these events and it's in all

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Speaker 2: over the place. It's international. How is it international? But

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Speaker 2: it's like, you know, these tactics work, they could get widespread,

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Speaker 2: like especially when it's like recruitment is one of the

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Speaker 2: main goals of it. That's that's there. What they're trying

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Speaker 2: to do is go out and recruit more and more people.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like with like the rise of social media,

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Speaker 2: we see it a lot more often today in like

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Speaker 2: subtle ways. Right, So this it's not necessarily a I guess,

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Speaker 2: like a common religious cult, like the ideas seem a

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Speaker 2: little more outlandish. Blending different types of cultures. We have

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Speaker 2: a little bit of thor we have a little bit

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Speaker 2: of crystal healing, and you know it's a good reminder

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Speaker 2: that it's not always just the textbook religion that we're

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Speaker 2: used to when it comes to high control groups and

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Speaker 2: cult like environments.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Kaliah, thank you again for bringing this one. This

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Speaker 1: one was a unique take. But for our listeners, we

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Speaker 1: are coming to the end of our first season, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we felt just as a natural way to close

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Speaker 1: this out, we wanted to bring it back to Chicaina.

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Speaker 1: So in the next couple of weeks you will hear

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Speaker 1: from some ex members one point ohs. So do stay

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Speaker 1: tuned and continue listening. We're so thankful for you all.

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Speaker 1: This is Forgive Me For I Have Followed.

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Speaker 2: Forgive Me For I Have Followed as a production from

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Speaker 2: WV Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael tore podcast Network,

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Speaker 2: hosted by me Khalia Gray.

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Speaker 1: And me Jess Cosovetto.

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Speaker 2: Forgive Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron

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Speaker 2: Burlson and Sophie Spencer Zavos.

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Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself, Wilmer Valderrama, Leo

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Speaker 1: Klem and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.

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Speaker 2: This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original

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Speaker 2: music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts

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Speaker 2: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows. See you next week,

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Speaker 2: See you next week.

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Speaker 1: Hello,