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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, this is Lee Claskal when We're Talking Transports.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Logistics Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts

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Speaker 1: and strategists around the globe. A quick public service announcement

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Speaker 1: before we dive in. Your support is instrumental to keep

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Speaker 1: bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and

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Speaker 1: we need your support. So please, if you enjoy this podcast,

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Speaker 1: share it, like it and leave a comment. Also, if

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Speaker 1: you've got ideas, feedback, or just want to talk transports,

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Speaker 1: I'm always happy to connect. You can find me on

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, on LinkedIn, or on x at Logistics. Lee,

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited to have with us today. Spencer Teddy.

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Speaker 1: He is the president and CEO of Tenny Group, a

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Speaker 1: firm that has specialized in transportation, logistics and supply chain

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Speaker 1: M and A advisory since nineteen seventy three. He also

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Speaker 1: hosts the industry Leading M and A podcast in the

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Speaker 1: hot Seat, where he interviews top executives, investors, and innovators

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Speaker 1: shaping the future of supply chain. Welcome to Talking Transport, Spencer, Lee.

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Speaker 2: Good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: So I guess we're podcast competitors.

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Speaker 2: I went, we're all chasing you, Lee. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know about that, sir.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well flattery, we'll get you everywhere. So the Tenny group,

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Speaker 1: you know, within trucking, it is the household name. Outside

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Speaker 1: of trucking, people might not be too familiar with it.

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Speaker 1: So why don't you talk a little bit about your company? Right?

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Speaker 2: So I won't regurgitate the bio there, but it's just

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Speaker 2: a great passion of ours. My family goes back in

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Speaker 2: the transportation space three generations. My grandfather was actually yeah,

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Speaker 2: he drove a beer truck in a taxi out of Dallas, Texas.

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Speaker 2: And so I think my dad tried to do everything

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Speaker 2: he could to stay out of this industry, as did I.

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Speaker 2: But you know how that goes. And so we actually,

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Speaker 2: my dad was very successful owning multiple transportation companies out

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Speaker 2: of the Dallas area, and then, like a lot of things,

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Speaker 2: it just kind of some happy accidents found ourselves advising

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Speaker 2: and helping other companies that wanted to create value and

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Speaker 2: ultimately exit. And so since nineteen seventy three. That's that's

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Speaker 2: been our specialty, so kind of starting off theory in

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Speaker 2: humble ways, but you know, over the course of the

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Speaker 2: last fifty plus years, we find ourselves helping business owners

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Speaker 2: go toe to toe with you know, the biggest brands

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Speaker 2: and the most acquisitive companies in our industry, whether it's

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Speaker 2: Trimac or Ashley Furniture or Forward Are we need logistics.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've transacted with all of them. I think

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Speaker 2: part of what we're trying to do is to help

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Speaker 2: folks that have kind of spent twenty thirty years building

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Speaker 2: something special, just making sure that they have leverage and

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Speaker 2: uncommon influence over what that transition of ownership is going

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Speaker 2: to look like. And then you know that probably makes

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Speaker 2: up eighty percent of our practice and the other twenty

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Speaker 2: percent is helping folks solve problems on the buy side.

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Speaker 2: And you know, whether most recently helping out Brookfield Asset

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Speaker 2: Management kind of fill some holes and what they're trying

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Speaker 2: to do to kind of fill out some of their

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Speaker 2: infrastructure capabilities across the supply chain or what have you.

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Speaker 2: But it's just a great delight for us to be

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Speaker 2: a part of literally what makes America and what makes

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Speaker 2: the world go in serving business owners that make it happen.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we do and trying to get a

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Speaker 2: little bit better out of each day.

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Speaker 1: So are most of your transactions that you work on,

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Speaker 1: are they trucking or there's pretty much across supply chains.

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Speaker 2: It's everything across the supply chain between you know, truckload,

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Speaker 2: freight brokerage, freight tech and transloading, intermodal, warehousing, anything that

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Speaker 2: touches the supply chain, we're involved in it.

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Speaker 1: So how is the m and a market right now?

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Speaker 1: Are there some sub segments that are higher than others?

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Speaker 2: They're very much so, I mean as a whole, I

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Speaker 2: mean it's a mixed bag. I mean as a whole,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty muted right now. But with the exception of

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Speaker 2: some pockets that generally have some specialization or insulation from

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Speaker 2: some of the challenges in the marketplace, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of iminate activity that is being pushed forward into twenty

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Speaker 2: six and twenty seven. But you know, we're actually having

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Speaker 2: a pretty good year. But in large parts where it's

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Speaker 2: in the pockets, it's in areas that have some kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, they're just not affected by what's going

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Speaker 2: on in the rest of the of the the frame market.

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Speaker 2: But you know, we see drive in, you see you know,

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Speaker 2: reef for some of these other things. It's just even

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Speaker 2: freight brokers, I mean extreme decline and overall in the

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Speaker 2: activity in those sectors.

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Speaker 1: So without naming names if you can, so what is

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Speaker 1: a sub segment that's not affected by the craziness that

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Speaker 1: that has been the freight markets over the last three years.

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Speaker 2: Well, anything dry bulk or liquid bulk right now has

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Speaker 2: been you know, kind of phenomenal. And you see some

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Speaker 2: of the most inquisitive plays right there. And I'll kind

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Speaker 2: of like frame it this way. In the last call

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Speaker 2: it sixty seventy days, we've done two transactions. One was

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Speaker 2: helping a refrigerated company out of bankruptcy through a three

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Speaker 2: sixty three sale. So that's kind of like one end

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Speaker 2: of the spectrum of characterizes what's happening in the M

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Speaker 2: and A market. And then we had, you know, a

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Speaker 2: very uncharacteristic platform investment from an agnostic private equity group

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Speaker 2: coming into truckload, which is very rare, but this is

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Speaker 2: two road partners out of New York City making a

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Speaker 2: platform investment in an amazing liquid bulk carrier petro hauler

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Speaker 2: Texas Trans Eastern and to me, it's like one of

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Speaker 2: the more interesting stories of the last ninety and eighty

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Speaker 2: days in our space because of how rare private equity

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Speaker 2: invests in asset heavy type platform investments. I mean, private

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Speaker 2: equity will be all over asset light, but pure asset

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Speaker 2: heavy it's less common. And so for us, that was

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Speaker 2: an extremely interesting story, great win for our client, but

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Speaker 2: also perhaps a trend. What I think we're going to

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Speaker 2: see some more of it, especially as technolog continues to

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Speaker 2: influence the rationale about why deals are getting done. You

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Speaker 2: don't need trucks, You're gonna need assets to fully capitalize

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Speaker 2: on that technology, and I think that's where you're going

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Speaker 2: to see more private equity involved in deals.

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Speaker 1: So, so you used some jargon earlier that some people

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Speaker 1: might not be familiar with. Me included so you said,

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Speaker 1: a three sixty three sale, what is that?

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's something that a lot of folks don't

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Speaker 2: realize that they're I mean, it's it's a it's a four.

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Speaker 2: It's it's managed by the bankruptcy court. They oversee it.

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Speaker 2: But it allows a seller to kind of manage that

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Speaker 2: bankruptcy process in a way that gives them more influence

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Speaker 2: over the financial outcome and over the selection over the

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Speaker 2: selection of who's going to buy those assets. Okay, and

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Speaker 2: so in that situation, we're able to help our client

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Speaker 2: land you know, in the firm is financial fitting. They

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Speaker 2: possibly could given the circumstances, and they also had some

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Speaker 2: influence over who's going to take over their company which

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Speaker 2: come out of bankruptcy. That's I mean, you know, beggars

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Speaker 2: can be choosers, but that's a pretty that's a pretty

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Speaker 2: good situation to kind of be in versus the alternate

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Speaker 2: of having no options.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned private equity, how like you know, they

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Speaker 1: kind of prefer the non asset and so that that

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Speaker 1: asset deal was with something of interest to you. I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming valuations are kind of low in truckload. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that could spur more private equity into the space.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, probably not. I think that I don't

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Speaker 2: see low valuation historically being a big enough carrot to

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Speaker 2: get into space. And the reason why they don't like

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Speaker 2: it they don't like the cap X. It doesn't fit

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Speaker 2: with their thesis and how they want to scale companies

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Speaker 2: and deliver returns to their funds. I think what's been

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Speaker 2: true in the past what will continue to be true

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Speaker 2: in the future, is that private equity is always interested

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Speaker 2: in exceptional companies, and that was the case in this

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Speaker 2: Texas transition deal. They were far superior to anybody in

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Speaker 2: that region from a pure performance standpoint. So at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, you know, winning dictates investment, and

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Speaker 2: I think that specifically for like you know, private equity

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Speaker 2: platform type investment. So short answer, no, I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's going to affect the way they do it. I

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Speaker 2: think that private aqu we's going to be attuned to

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Speaker 2: some of the opportunities in this space, but they're always

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Speaker 2: going to try to focus their investment energy around the

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Speaker 2: best possible companies in the most sizable companies at the

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Speaker 2: same time.

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Speaker 1: Right, and you know you mentioned earlier that some of

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Speaker 1: the tech investments or deals might get pushed out into

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, twenty seven. What's what's driving that delay

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Speaker 1: because obviously, you know, when when the companies that I

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Speaker 1: cover are talking about AI, you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of hype around it, but it actually seems to be

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Speaker 1: doing good things. Like when you look at H. Robinson

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Speaker 1: and the productivity that they've been able to get. So

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Speaker 1: why are those kind of investments getting or those kind

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Speaker 1: of deals getting pushed out into the latter years.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, there's two things, and maybe I didn't communicate

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Speaker 2: that very clearly. I think what the technology is fascinating,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's fascinating enough that it will attract

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Speaker 2: private equity investment to come invest in not just asset

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Speaker 2: light but asset heavy business models because most of the data.

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Speaker 2: In order to I mean that the money's in the data,

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Speaker 2: and in order to control the data, you have to

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Speaker 2: invest in the assets, be the tractors or the trailers.

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Speaker 2: So I think that I think that that's what will

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Speaker 2: be interesting moving forward, and how private equity thinks about

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Speaker 2: transportational logistics and how they can create value. So so

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Speaker 2: I think you're gonna need assets or you're gonna need scale.

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Speaker 2: To your point, there's there's plenty of asset lights that

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Speaker 2: are companies that are currently capturing and capitalizing on you know,

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Speaker 2: AI automation of a variety of different things. I think

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Speaker 2: that's very true on the freight brokerage side, I think

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Speaker 2: the challenge is for the actual freight tech companies like,

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Speaker 2: how are they going to create value based on the

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Speaker 2: fact that their products are potentially becoming obsolete every you know,

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Speaker 2: twelve to eighteen months, and so I think that that

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Speaker 2: that's the issue. From from my standpoint, I think that's

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Speaker 2: what where the real market risks. The greatest beneficiaries are

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Speaker 2: not the tech companies themselves. I think it's the the

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Speaker 2: people that are using the technology and you know, can

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Speaker 2: you know, shift from from one product to the next

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Speaker 2: as necessary without resolving themselves to any one platform, gotcha?

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how much you look at

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Speaker 1: the LTL space, but there's been some consolidating there with

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Speaker 1: with larger players like night Swift. From your vantage point

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Speaker 1: on the smaller regionals, are you seeing I guess more

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Speaker 1: players thinking oh, we have to get bigger to better

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Speaker 1: compete against these larger national networks.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's how they think. I think

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Speaker 2: so many folks, I mean, I mean, you think about this, Leo.

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Speaker 2: The last five years, we've not had two consecutive normal

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Speaker 2: FRAY markets. I mean, it's been literally like whip whiplash

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Speaker 2: the last five years in a row. And there's so

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Speaker 2: many folks that we're counting on twenty twenty five to

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Speaker 2: be the year that would be a major market, and

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Speaker 2: so many folks just to keep the lights on. They

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Speaker 2: have you know, emptied their operational reserves, and for a

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Speaker 2: lot of these folks, they don't they don't have a

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Speaker 2: lot of options, and so I don't think any of

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Speaker 2: them are thinking about, like we need to go compete

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Speaker 2: or we're going to go acquire, although that I think

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Speaker 2: that's a if that was the conclusion, I think that

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Speaker 2: would make sense to try to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: acquire some competitors or merge. I think the majority energy

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Speaker 2: is to figure out how to you know, how to

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Speaker 2: survive presently until until they get some help from a

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Speaker 2: from a freight market. I mean, there are some things

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Speaker 2: is coming at ATA. I think there are some signs

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Speaker 2: that help is on the way. But not to not

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Speaker 2: to be a downer here, but I mean, I don't

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Speaker 2: think that we're going to see near fast enough correction

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Speaker 2: for a lot of these folks to meaningfully feel that

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Speaker 2: on a P and L.

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Speaker 1: Right, So when you're talking, I guess on the truckload side,

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Speaker 1: what motivates a small to mid sized company wanting to

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Speaker 1: sell itself? Is it just the fact that they can't survive.

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Speaker 1: Is it like it's a family business. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about the motivation to sell several things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of it is just it could be

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Speaker 2: a multi generational company and there's just no successor nobody

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Speaker 2: in the next generation has the interest or the ability

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Speaker 2: to take the company to the next level. And so

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Speaker 2: I think some of it's just the writings on the

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Speaker 2: wall and they realize that ninety percent of their personal

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Speaker 2: networks tied up in a in an asset that's not liquid.

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Speaker 2: So that's a problem for a lot of people that

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Speaker 2: need financial security at this season of their life. So

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Speaker 2: that's part of it. I think some of it. I've

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Speaker 2: heard some interesting comments of the last six months where

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Speaker 2: a lot of folks look at this and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: I think this is going to be the most exciting

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Speaker 2: period in the history of you know, the freight industry

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Speaker 2: over the next five years, and I want to be

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Speaker 2: a part of it. I just don't want to get

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Speaker 2: my teeth kicked in the whole time while I'm doing it,

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Speaker 2: or you know, bear the weight of all of the

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Speaker 2: stress of being a small and mid sized operator. When

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Speaker 2: you know, they see the writing on the wall, the

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Speaker 2: saying this is not going to be an industry that

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Speaker 2: is going to cater too small and mid sized companies.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be brutal on them. And so I

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Speaker 2: think that what I'm hearing is a lot of folks

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Speaker 2: want they love this industry, they want to be a

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Speaker 2: part of it, but this is going to be their

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Speaker 2: stepping off point to create that liquidity, stay involved in

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Speaker 2: it in some way, work with the you know, with

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Speaker 2: the buyer, play a meaningful role in something that they

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Speaker 2: really care about. But it's just extremely difficult for a

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Speaker 2: company without scale to address the uh, you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: relentless increasing and increases in operational costs.

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Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, We've seen huge increases and insurance costs, equipment costs,

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Speaker 1: people costs. It's been been a very tough business for

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Speaker 1: a lot of carr especially given the depressed rate environment.

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Speaker 1: So are there certain I guess technologies out there that

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Speaker 1: you know that come across your desk that you're you're

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Speaker 1: kind of excited about in terms of what it can

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Speaker 1: do for uh, supply chains and transportation in general.

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Speaker 2: That there's a there's a handful, I mean to me,

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Speaker 2: I mean, quite honestly, it's a little overwhelming, and I

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Speaker 2: can understand why. The folks that have the opportunity. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's there's literally some product for every problem within a

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Speaker 2: truckload carrier or a freight brokerage right now. I mean

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Speaker 2: anything that you could imagine, there's there's a potential way

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Speaker 2: to use an AI agent to reduce ah, you know,

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Speaker 2: full time equivalent or more. And we're seeing it across

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Speaker 2: the board. Which what's interesting is that as we continue

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Speaker 2: to see these things, which are pretty phenomenal, you get

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Speaker 2: one of these freight agents that's AI sounds just like

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Speaker 2: a human. They're negotiating better than humans to get rates

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Speaker 2: where they need to be.

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Speaker 1: We're actually two AI agents people. We just don't know

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Speaker 1: that yet.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, So I think that I've shadowed some

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Speaker 2: of these calls. They're phenomenal of what the technology can

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Speaker 2: actually do. What's so discouraging is that some of these

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Speaker 2: folks have there, they have deployed this technology and it's

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Speaker 2: fully implemented. They've reduced headcount by forty percent, yet they're

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Speaker 2: still kind of break even from a profitability standpoint, which

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Speaker 2: is which is crazy. And so I think what's kind

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Speaker 2: of proliferated. A lot of this AI us is I

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Speaker 2: don't think that the actual folks that have the technology

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Speaker 2: that are selling it, I don't think they're selling it

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Speaker 2: at a profitle rate. At some point they're going to

294
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Speaker 2: raise the rates they have to because they can't sustain themselves.

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Speaker 2: And so what it will be interesting is that which

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Speaker 2: kind of wean folks off these kind of free or

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Speaker 2: entry level products, like when they actually have to pay

298
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Speaker 2: for them, Like, what's going to be the impact at

299
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Speaker 2: that point? And that's kind of what I have my

300
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Speaker 2: eye on. Ultimately, the folks that I see doing the

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Speaker 2: best have either partnered with some type of AI specialists

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Speaker 2: that can create capabilities on the fly, versus buying product

303
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Speaker 2: after product which you're just kind of married to that

304
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Speaker 2: product at that point. I think that in the interim

305
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Speaker 2: period where everyone's still trying to figure this out, I

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Speaker 2: think the magic is going to be, you know, trying

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Speaker 2: to partner with groups that can give you more and

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Speaker 2: more agile approach to the available technologies. And and did

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Speaker 2: you change when something else becomes more effective?

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Speaker 1: Do you think freight brokers that don't lean into tech,

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Speaker 1: whether it's AI or just you know, because AI has

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Speaker 1: a lot of meetings. But you know, assuming it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's not if they're not leaning into tech, are they

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Speaker 1: going to be able to compete in five years? You

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Speaker 1: know that the freight broker with the rolodex, a phone

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Speaker 1: and a pack of cigarettes, you know, like that kind

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Speaker 1: of an old school broker, Like can they can they

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Speaker 1: compete against now?

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Speaker 2: I don't think they canpet the next eighteen monthsly, quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: I mean I think that kind of a dead man

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Speaker 2: walkin right now. They're probably still you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: dipping into PPP money that was you know, dolled out

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Speaker 2: four years ago and still have a little bit left

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Speaker 2: to kind of you know, bridge cash flow gaps. But no,

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Speaker 2: I don't think that's gonna happen at all. I think

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Speaker 2: it's going to get even more advanced. So there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks right now. I saw Craig Fuller talk about,

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Speaker 2: you know, a multiple different freight brokerages probably gonna you know,

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Speaker 2: self elect out or go bankrupt or do whatever in

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Speaker 2: the next six to twelve months. I do think that

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Speaker 2: there's some truth in that, but you know, and that

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Speaker 2: the vast majority of folks who will be in that

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Speaker 2: group are folks that have not integrated or adapted to

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Speaker 2: the realities of where we're at in the industry right now.

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Speaker 1: So are those the kind of folks that are you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you're sending you an email and saying, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: we're looking to sell because you know, if if you

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Speaker 1: can take maybe their book of business and bring it

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Speaker 1: into a company that has leaned into the tech, you

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Speaker 1: know that that could really create.

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Speaker 2: Some value potentially. I think that that that's part of

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Speaker 2: the case I think right now, so much of this

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Speaker 2: is driven about what makes the revenue sticky, what makes

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Speaker 2: the customer sticky, and the technology is not a major

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Speaker 2: factor what's driving M and A presently, because I think

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Speaker 2: everyone else is still trying to figure this out. What

347
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Speaker 2: people want. They want new revenue and they want it

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Speaker 2: to be sticky. So where we see deals getting done

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Speaker 2: in the freight brokerage, it usually has something that is

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Speaker 2: very complex, very clunky, and and something that a lot

351
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Speaker 2: of people don't want to do because of the complexity

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Speaker 2: of the move. It's those types of deals you know

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Speaker 2: that you can if you have those types of relationships.

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Speaker 2: Those are those are characteristicalistics that if they're involved in

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Speaker 2: a company, a deal can get done because you know,

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Speaker 2: somebody can't just show up and take that business away.

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Speaker 2: There's a relationship there, there's some depth and so you know,

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Speaker 2: those are the main characteristics that we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 2: Or if there's barrier to entry or what have you.

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Speaker 2: But you know, good customer relationships or it could be

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Speaker 2: access to a new customer that perhaps the buyer could

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Speaker 2: expand that relationship. Those are those are the main things

363
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Speaker 2: versus you know tech.

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Speaker 1: But can you give us an example of something that

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Speaker 1: that's sticky, like a type of a move that that

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Speaker 1: that that is hard or difficult.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we did a deal with Third Coast Logistics.

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Speaker 2: This is a freight broke which out of Austin, and

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Speaker 2: you know they had some they were doing these types

370
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Speaker 2: of moves where they would go to elementary schools and

371
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Speaker 2: they would unload you know that we get there, they'd

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Speaker 2: have to hand unload various materials, take it into the school.

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Speaker 2: Very cumbersome, labor intensive, and you know, for a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks, there's you know, there's safety.

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Speaker 1: Elements to that.

376
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Speaker 2: There's there's there's kind of like some protocol all they

377
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,959
Speaker 2: have to do. So there's just multiple reasons why if

378
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 2: someone's just trying to turn and burn freight like that, like, well,

379
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that. That's too much. I

380
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. But in doing so, the

381
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 2: people that are actually willing to do it, they can

382
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 2: have more influence over the pricing of that work, have

383
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 2: more profitability, and over time, once that relationship's in place,

384
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 2: the customer is not going to shop that and try

385
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 2: to beat them up on price. So, you know, like

386
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 2: like anything else, like the you know, the the cost

387
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: to retain the customers about eleven percent of what it

388
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 2: is to create a new customer. And so I think

389
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 2: that's the main thing that when people are trying to

390
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 2: value these these customers and when they look at these

391
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 2: stickiness or the complexity of these moves. You know, the

392
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Speaker 2: more complex, the more clunky in any cases, the better.

393
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, we we we get. You know,

394
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Speaker 1: we hear a lot about like health care logistics, how

395
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: that is an area suspect the specialty that's needed to

396
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 1: do that? Is that an area where you're seeing more

397
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,920
Speaker 1: m and a activity.

398
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I mean that that's a big a

399
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 2: focus area. And you think about it too, just from

400
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: a growth standpoint, you look at the demographics of the

401
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 2: United States and how many aging baby boomers that we have.

402
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: When they start looking at the need to move more freight,

403
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 2: that matches that criteria, that has some barriers to entry

404
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: in terms of who's qualified to move it and who isn't,

405
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,639
Speaker 2: makes it very, very attractive from an investment standpoint to

406
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 2: try to get that. There's not a ton I mean

407
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: from an inventory standpoint, they don't. There's a there's not

408
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: a ton of folks who who who do that at

409
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 2: a highlight, who do it at scale and do it

410
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Speaker 2: very well. And so when those are opportunities come up,

411
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 2: they usually attract a lot of attention from an m

412
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 2: and a standpoint.

413
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Speaker 1: So when you're when you're talking to your clients and perspective,

414
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Speaker 1: clients and and and I know all our crystal balls

415
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: are pretty buggy right now. You know what, what are

416
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: they telling you about twenty twenty six? You know, as

417
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: or either when it comes to rates or supply, you know,

418
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: do they seem more optimistic or you know, what is

419
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: the mood going into twenty twenty six, Because we're almost

420
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 1: there to be in a blink of an eye, we're

421
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Speaker 1: gonna we're going to be celebrating New Years.

422
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Speaker 2: You know, I mentioned, you know, these five very unique

423
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: freight periods between twenty one and twenty twenty five, And

424
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Speaker 2: right now, I think I'm seeing that, you know, probably

425
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,200
Speaker 2: the most the kinder and gentler version of business owners

426
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: that I've seen in a while. And I think folks,

427
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 2: you're recognizing that they may get some help. Even if

428
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 2: they do, it may not be a lot. So I

429
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 2: think the expectations are I'd really like to be able

430
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 2: to select who buys this company, have some influence over that,

431
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 2: and I just need conditions to get better than where

432
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: they are right now, just to make sure that we

433
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: don't leave money on table. So I I those are

434
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: some of the main things on the freight brokeer side.

435
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: I mean, they need a major uptick for some of

436
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: that to make sense. I mean a lot of these

437
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: folks trailing to even large companies trailing twelve months ebidas,

438
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: you know, break even in some case negative for some

439
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: of these folks, and you know that doesn't and that

440
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 2: doesn't represent the quality of their company. That's just the

441
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: realities of the on a macro level. So for some

442
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 2: of these folks, some of them don't want to sell.

443
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: It's just it's very empowering when they know that if

444
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: they want, if they wanted to, they could. So that's

445
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 2: kind of what I'm hearing is like, over the next

446
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: twelve months, macro conditions should improve in a way that

447
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 2: where I'm going to have much better strategic options than

448
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: I had in twenty twenty five. So it's more of

449
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 2: a sense of relief that if I decide to exit,

450
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: I'm probably going to be able to in a way

451
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: that's satisfactory. But even if I don't, it's going to

452
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: be wonderful to get back to a place where, you know,

453
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: just that they feel like that they have more control

454
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: over what they've been you know, what they've built in

455
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 2: their companies and how they've invested in it.

456
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: And can you just talk broadly about valuations. I don't

457
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: know if it makes more sense to talk about it

458
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: per sub segment, but like kind of like where where

459
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: are we versus where we've been? You know, you don't

460
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 1: have to give like you know, were we twenty percent

461
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: off the peak or fifty percent off the peak? And

462
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: when was the peak? And you know, so something like that.

463
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that for context here is

464
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 2: that most people are like when when they talk about

465
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: the peak, well, what made the peak? I mean, we

466
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: had COVID, which we had, you know, we kind of

467
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: pushed forward three years worth of demand on goods. I

468
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 2: think I heard Derrek Leathers talking about this on your podcast.

469
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: Uh he had a great explanation of it. I'll just

470
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 2: I'll just direct you to go have him explain it.

471
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: I think he did a really good job of kind

472
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 2: of explaining you know, how we push pushed all of

473
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: this freight movement forward and then it kind of just

474
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: dried up. But at the same time, we also effectively

475
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 2: had free debt. So all of that in terms of

476
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: kind of created this wild wild West situation that to

477
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 2: me offers no relevance whatsoever as a reference point for

478
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: anything like to make sense of. But I think what's

479
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: encouraging moving forward is that, you know, we were getting

480
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 2: signals from the fad that we're going to have We

481
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: just had interest rate reduction, possibly another four things are

482
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: going to stabilize. I think that's going to help. But

483
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: the reality is right now, you know, anything that is

484
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 2: you know, commoditized freight, it's very difficult to trade at all.

485
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: You know, unless you're like four or five hundred trucks.

486
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 2: The deal that I mentioned with the Texas transition, that

487
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 2: was a very healthy multiple on that deal. Other deals

488
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: that are specialized, I think they're getting healthy multiples. Freight broke,

489
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: which is probably the one that across the board where

490
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: I would say is probably struggling the most because I

491
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 2: think there is the market was traumatized a little bit

492
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 2: because they went the guy a little bit too crazy

493
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: between twenty two twenty three. So I do I do

494
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: think that there has been a specific muting on valuations

495
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 2: for that specific category, and I think that that's probably

496
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: good and and I and I also think it's it

497
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: reflects the the uncertainty about the relevance of that business

498
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: model frankly over the next five years, like how is

499
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 2: it going to evolve and can you bank on it

500
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: from a from a value standpoint in the way that

501
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 2: you have in the past, particularly if you don't have scale.

502
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: And so.

503
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: With the emergence of so much technology in that space,

504
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: I think rightfully so, folks are a little bit concerned

505
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: about how how much to spend and how much to invest,

506
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 2: how high to value those companies.

507
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: So when you're working on a merger or you know,

508
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: an acquisition, and it's not like you know, a financial buyer,

509
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a strategic buyer or something. What

510
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: what do you find that a deal has to have

511
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: for it to work, because obviously, you know you do

512
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: a post more of them a year later, it could

513
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: have been a good deal and it could have been

514
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: a bad deal. So like, what what makes a good deal?

515
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: The one characteristic where I think has the highest core

516
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 2: or the greatest correlation to post transaction success, if that's

517
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: what you're asking, Yeah, is the strength of the target

518
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: company's management team. And what I mean by that?

519
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: And we did a deal with.

520
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: Blue Jay Capital and triedent private equity group for large

521
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: courier company out of Minneapolis, And in my podcast is

522
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: interviewed in Pierre Matthew and he talks about this is

523
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 2: like when you know, when private equity is viewing an investment,

524
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: the number one thing is the strength of the management team.

525
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: But also what is the capability. It's not not their

526
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: strength in today, it's what is their capacity to grow

527
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: the business two three to four x. And I think

528
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: that's where a lot of folks when they're acquiring, particularly

529
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 2: if it's a platform investment. They overestimate that management team's

530
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: ability to scale the company moving forward, and so you know,

531
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: you know what ends up happening is they end up

532
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: having to plug and play year two. They have to

533
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 2: get new leadership, and that is very disruptive and it

534
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: puts the overall return at risk on the on the investment.

535
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: So that I would say, without question, the highest correlation,

536
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: the factor that correlates to the greatest success is that

537
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 2: you just have an all star management team that has

538
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: presently the ability to go three to four x that

539
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: that company without having a lot of additional cap They

540
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: just have the ability, they have the knowledge. They't that

541
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: maybe they've done it before in a different organization. But

542
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: that's probably the most valuable way, the most valuable thing

543
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: to creating value, and it's also the surest way to

544
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,959
Speaker 2: de risk that transition of ownership gotcha.

545
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of action obviously Washington that

546
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: have impacted supply chains, good and bad. You know, when

547
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: we're looking at capacity in the trucking market, which you

548
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: know obviously there needs to be flushed out a little bit.

549
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: There's some things going on, whether it's the English language

550
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: proficiency enforcement non domicile cd ls or or you know,

551
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: cracking down on cabotage. What what what do you think

552
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: that's do you think that's gonna really make a mark

553
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: on trucking because some some folks have been pretty, uh

554
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: extremely bullish on on you know, what could happen uh

555
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: to rates because of that, and some people have been

556
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: a little more cautious. I guess where do you where

557
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: do you Where do you come in on that?

558
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: I think where I come in is that, you know,

559
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: I think these things kind of become a political issue,

560
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: which I'm just like, Hey, usually when our government, our

561
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 2: government enforces the laws that are designed to protect people

562
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: and companies, we're generally more healthy and we perform better.

563
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 2: So to me, it's just like I don't I don't

564
00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: have like a like this is going to be this

565
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: silver bullet. But but yes, absolutely this this will help

566
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: in the short and long term.

567
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: But there's.

568
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: You know, to me, when you've got demand down or

569
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: volumes down eighteen percent, that the demand is the main issue.

570
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: Like we like, there's got to be more demand in

571
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: the space to actually affect you know, freight rates presently.

572
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: So so to me, like there's a disproportionate amount of

573
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: attention on this. I think it's I don't think there

574
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: should be any conversation that this should be happening. It's

575
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: from a safety standpoint and for all just you know,

576
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: credibility for government enforced laws. But I think I'm a

577
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: little bit more conservative on what I think it's actually

578
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: going to do.

579
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: And so you mentioned so it's so you view it

580
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: as more on the demand side. What has to happen

581
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: for that demand to pick up? I mean, is it

582
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: just like, let's hope these interest rate cuts spur a

583
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: little more economic growth because you know, GDP expectations are

584
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: pretty mild for the next two years.

585
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of this is has already

586
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 2: put in motion. You know, the one big beautiful bill

587
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: which we talked about at length that the American Truck

588
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: Association was on a panel with Rant Thornton in a

589
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: variety of other folks talking about the impact of this.

590
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: This is going to unlock tremendous investment in the United States.

591
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: It's going to be helpful, but we still need stability

592
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: in the marketplace. There's still some trade deals that need

593
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: to get done. There's still some stability that has to

594
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: take place, and I think we're probably six to twelve

595
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: months away from from that really happening, from us being

596
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: able to fully benefit from the intent of the one

597
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: bit you know, all the factors in the one big

598
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: beautiful bill. So I do believe all those things in

599
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 2: combination will be significant. It's it's just going to take

600
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 2: a little bit more.

601
00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: Time, gotcha. So I remember I read in your bio

602
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: that you're you come from music before you got into

603
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: investment banking. That did I read that?

604
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, well that was one of the things I

605
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 2: was trying to do to avoid getting into the transportation industry.

606
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was a music guy and another life

607
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: of the songwriter had a music publishing company.

608
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: Okay, And and you're you're based in outside of Nashville,

609
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: So like are you was it country music?

610
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: Country?

611
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah?

612
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: Country music? You know, I I uh, I came out

613
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: here and you know, I met some of the most

614
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: amazing people, some of the most talented people in the world,

615
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: quite frankly, and uh, pretty remarkable experience, and you know,

616
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: blessed to call a lot of those folks friends to

617
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: this day. My greatest victory in music, though, was meeting

618
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: my wife, who was a songwriter as well. And so

619
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 2: once I got once I got that locked down, Lee,

620
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, all those years learning how to

621
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: play guitar finally paid off and so uh so that so.

622
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: It all worked out pretty well good. I'm glad. And

623
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: so have you written any any songs about trucking or

624
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: transports that have been published or recorded?

625
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 2: No, I don't, I don't think so. I wrote a

626
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: song a long time ago. I.

627
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: Uh, we have this.

628
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: We have this truck in our family. I bought it

629
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 2: when I was fifteen years old. Okay, we have passed

630
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: it or I sold it to my brother, he sold

631
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: it back to me. I sold it to my dad.

632
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 2: It's a seventy nine for pickup truck. And so a

633
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: long time ago we wrote a song about that truck

634
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: called Old Brown and so that that was kind of fun,

635
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 2: but that that's probably my one trucking song.

636
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: All right, great, I'm assuming you still strum the guitar,

637
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: you know, and you're not doing deals.

638
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: Well yeah, you know. I still get the isg from

639
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: time to timely for sure.

640
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: Okay, and so you know, I do like to ask

641
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: people how they got into freight transportation. But you mentioned

642
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: at the top of the show that you know, you're

643
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: it's really in your blood. When did you realize that

644
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: this is something that you wanted to do? You know,

645
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: it kind of like drew you back into I guess

646
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: the family business, if you will.

647
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: When I got back in and I was just like,

648
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: you know, coming out of the gypsy life and I

649
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 2: just needed to just needed to make some money. Yeah,

650
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: but I remember watching my dad support a handful of

651
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: business owners and guided them through, you know, the largest

652
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: financial event of their lifetime, and then having a front

653
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 2: row seat to watch those guys use that liquidity event,

654
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: bless their communities, bless their neighbors, do all kinds of

655
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 2: remarkable things. And because I don't know, I just think

656
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: our industry attracts super generous people that are other centered,

657
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you've met a ton of them. But

658
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: and so for me, like when you get a little

659
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: taste of that, you're like, man, this is pretty special

660
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: thing to be a part of. And then I just

661
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: kind of fell in love with it and just the

662
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: idea that you know, may I've got a unique calling

663
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: to help these these folks create value and advance of

664
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: a sale and then you know, help them navigate something

665
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: that you know, they may know trucking and may be

666
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: the very best the best, but they've probably never done this,

667
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: and so it's it really is a great privilege to

668
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: help them navigate that and then, like I said, have

669
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: that front row seat to see what they do in

670
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: it in the next chapter of lives.

671
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: Gotcha, yep. And then I also like to ask this

672
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: question of most of my guests towards the end, is

673
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,959
Speaker 1: there like a do you have like a favorite book

674
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: on transportation or leadership or finance for that matter. You know,

675
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people that listen to the

676
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: podcast or are generalists and they would like to learn more,

677
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: whether it's about the trucking industry or transportation or even

678
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: you know, you know, h M and a activity.

679
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: Well a couple I would say. I read a great

680
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: book book a while back called Door to Door and

681
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: this is probably it's a little dated. It's it might

682
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: be ten year years old now. It was just a

683
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: fascinating way to think about kind of the future of transportation,

684
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: why we do things the way that we do. That

685
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 2: was one that was pretty interesting. I'm always looking at

686
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 2: leadership books. A couple of things I've been working on

687
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 2: right now one is the power of full engagement. I'm

688
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 2: getting a lot of value from that. About to wrap

689
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: that book up, it's just talking about managing energy over time,

690
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: and I think that you know, when leaders within transportation logistics,

691
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,399
Speaker 2: they don't have any more time available, so figuring out

692
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 2: how to manage energy is a more effective way to

693
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: think about production. And then lastly, my wife turned me

694
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: on this book a long time ago called Boundaries. It's

695
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: psychologist doctor Henry Cloud, and it really just talks about

696
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: having really healthy relationships. And if you think about it

697
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: from a leadership standpoint, if you can figure out how

698
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: to have extremely healthy relationships that are boundaried that you

699
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: can speak authentically what's true and and in a loving

700
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 2: way with the people that are the twelve people that

701
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: are that are closest to you, there's a pretty chance

702
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: that pretty much everything and you know beyond that, it's

703
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: going to work out pretty well. And so I would

704
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 2: highly recommend that to the people in a leadership position

705
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: because I think it does have some amazing concepts to

706
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 2: help you know, marriages, relationships with your boss, with your coworkers.

707
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 2: Very impactful for me for sure.

708
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: All right, great, well, Spencer, I really want to thank

709
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: you for your time and insights today. I really appreciated

710
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: your time and I really enjoyed the conversation, so thank

711
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: you so much. Likewisely, and I want to thank you

712
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: for tuning in. If you liked the episode, please subscribe

713
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: and leave a review. We've lined up a number of

714
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: great guests for the podcast, so please check back to

715
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: your conversations with these executives, shippers, regulators, and decision makers

716
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: within the freight markets. Also, if you want to learn

717
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: more about the freight transportation markets, check out our work

718
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Terminal, at b I Go and on

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Speaker 1: social media. This is Lee Glasgow signing up. Thanks for

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00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 1: talking transports with me. Speak to you soon. Bye bye,