00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel. 00:00:02 Speaker 2: I'm Matt. 00:00:02 Speaker 1: Today we're talking guilt-ridden spending, sneaking socialism, and home-buying help. 00:00:14 Speaker 2: We're going to get to all of those topics and more today on our Friday Flight, Joel, where we talk about the stories we want to talk about. Some of them are in pop culture, and a lot of folks are talking about them. And some of these topics nobody else is talking about. And that's why you're here at How to Money, to hear about what we want to talk about. 00:00:34 Speaker 1: We're covering it, and that's why you're listening, because hopefully, one, you like us, and two, you like the information that we're delivering. And if you don't like us and you just like the information, that's okay, too. Matt, before we get into all the stories, I wanted to mention something really quickly. I like your shirt, by the way. It looks like you have on one of my shirts. I feel like I stole it from you, but yours would be too tight on me. You wear a smaller size. 00:00:55 Speaker 2: Wait, you wear a medium slim? Yeah. That's what I wear. 00:00:58 Speaker 1: I thought you were a small. 00:01:00 Speaker 2: No. 00:01:00 Speaker 1: No, not with all your like, I guess now with all your crossfit and your jacked up muscles, you need a bigger size. 00:01:05 Speaker 2: Don't you short sell me? Isn't that what you said when I mentioned the 6'4? I thought you were 6'3, Joel, or whatever I said. 00:01:13 Speaker 1: Anyway. Yeah, don't do that. 00:01:14 Speaker 2: That's messed up. I'm not as small as I used to be, buddy. 00:01:18 Speaker 1: No, that's true. 00:01:19 Speaker 2: That's true. 00:01:19 Speaker 1: I see the trapezoid shining through in the YouTube video right now. 00:01:22 Speaker 2: You're like Goldberg. No, no. Like an old school wrestler. If you're watching on YouTube, you can, in fact, see that Joel is telling a lie. Just regular old Matt over here in. 00:01:33 Speaker 1: His white t-shirt. Okay, here's what I'm sorry to interrupt. 00:01:36 Speaker 2: Go ahead. 00:01:36 Speaker 1: Not lying about is the kind of gas you put in your car matters. And the truth is there are different standards of gas. And I'm not talking about going with the more expensive gas when you're actually at the BP, the Exxon, the Amoco, wherever you are. 00:01:54 Speaker 2: I was going to say, are you going to start shilling for Chevron with Tecron? No. 00:01:57 Speaker 1: What I'm shilling for is some gas stations go with gas that's top tier gas. So this has extra detergents, extra cleaning ability. It's better for your engine parts. And I am not, In mechanic, I'm mostly a buffoon, but I know that this is a good thing. And you can look it up on Top Tier's website. I believe it's Top Tier Gas. 00:02:21 Speaker 2: But I was here. 00:02:22 Speaker 1: They have something new, Matt, Top Tier Plus. So it's like an extra, extra level of top tier. I'm showing, I took this picture the other day. I'm holding it up for our YouTube viewers. Wait, where did you take that picture? At the gas station. This was just this past weekend. I think Amoco and BP in particular- are the first two gas stations that are rolling out top tier plus. And this is specifically, I don't think it helps as much for old engines like mine, old school cars. Apparently it's specifically an updated standard for more modern cars that use something called gasoline direct injection. Don't ask me to explain that. All I'm going to say is I think regular top tier or top tier plus, if you see that sticker that I just held up, it's a green and white sticker if you're just listening. That is what you want to see at your gas station. And you want to go to a gas station that sells that kind of gas because you will have fewer issues over time. You know, when you go to advanced auto parts or whatever, and they sell those $ 5 things that you can drop in your gas tank. This is kind of like that, but it's going in the gas that you buy. And typically you don't pay anything extra for top tier gas. Costco's have top tier gas. 00:03:35 Speaker 2: And guess what? 00:03:35 Speaker 1: Gas is cheaper at Costco 98% of the time than it is anywhere nearby. 00:03:40 Speaker 2: When it's open. Have you been there recently? Is it open yet? 00:03:44 Speaker 1: No, I think our Costco is remodeling. They're adding. 00:03:49 Speaker 2: new, uh, more gas tanks to adding that third, that third, uh, whatever, third row of tanks. Yeah. Third row. Yeah. 00:03:57 Speaker 1: And so right now it's closed. I think it opens in a month and a half. Uh, not that I'm counting the days or anything like that, but, um, yeah, the top tier gas and top tier plus just know, know that it exists and know that it can make a difference and that you don't have to pay extra money to get. 00:04:10 Speaker 2: Better gas for your car. Yeah. Uh, you know, you don't have to worry about that. If you're only looking at the price per kilowatt hour, which is what this guy is doing, dude, I'll, I'll be honest. It's just look at the, I mean, I don't like that. We're at war and, and oil is getting shut down in the middle East, of course. But, um, I do feel very lucky and fortunate that we are, we've only filled up the van one time. Uh, basically almost in the, gosh, I guess it's been three weeks anyway. 00:04:39 Speaker 1: Humble brag, I have an EV alert. 00:04:42 Speaker 2: Dude, it's 100% a humble brag. Although I was just talking with you how we had the electrician over because we screwed up on the circuitry that goes to the charger. Maybe we'll save that for some other time. Yeah. Because that is probably going to end up costing us. But what I was going to say regarding the top tier gas. 00:04:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:04:59 Speaker 2: Is that one of the ways I found that's an easy rule of thumb, because I remember thinking, oh, I don't want to have to go to the separate website and the website's like, janky, um, to identify which gas stations had like the nicer, the nicer stuff. And what I found for the most part were that at least in our area, almost all gas stations have top tier, except for the two most popular gas stations, which are a quick trip and what's Raceway. Racetrack. Okay. So it's those two that have the nicer pumps and they got the nicer little convenience store, nicer food. 00:05:38 Speaker 1: Inferior gas. 00:05:40 Speaker 2: But they've got the inferior gas. And so they charge just as much as some of the other gas stations, like your BP's, your Amico's, your Texaco's. And so I don't know if this is across the board, but certainly where we live, when I really dug into it, because I was just looking for a good rule of thumb. How can I know Generally speaking, what gas stations it is. And that's when I realized, oh, it's the fancy convenience store gas stations that have all the bells and whistles. They've actually got the crappier gas. And so for the most part, I just try to avoid those when we are filling up the van. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:06:11 Speaker 2: And instead shoot for something like, yeah, hopefully, dude, I want to see that Costco back open. Because the one time we did have to fill a van up, I was pushing 80 bucks and it wasn't even a full gallon gas. And that's because today's AAA national average gas price is around $ 4. 00:06:30 Speaker 1: 36. 00:06:30 Speaker 2: It's higher than ever. Yeah, I mean, no bueno. 00:06:36 Speaker 1: It's crippling people's lifestyles. 00:06:38 Speaker 2: And we've talked about cars and stuff a lot lately on the show, but EVs, especially those older, cheaper EVs, if it works for your lifestyle, the way you drive, and the range, those, man, if you buy a $ 4, 000 Nissan Leaf just to save on gas, I don't know, man, it could work out for you. Like I'm thinking about it more and more. Absolutely. Just to be able to kick around town a little bit. All right, let's keep moving. Let's talk about doing fun stuff, Joel. There is an article in the Times that was talking about, the writer was specifically writing about how she has started to spend more and more of her dollars on things that light her up. Essentially things that make her feel alive. 00:07:21 Speaker 1: And based on the way the headline was written, this could have been, I think, the ludicrous headline of the week. It was an advocation to spend all of your disposable income on stuff that makes you feel alive. 00:07:33 Speaker 2: That's true. Kind of YOLO vibes. Yeah, it was to kind of, I think, grab folks' attention. But yeah, on one hand, it feels like a recipe just for reckless spending, right? Yeah. But if you actually read the article, I see the author's point, right? Like given specifically the lack of connection and the lack of community, the lack of like face-to-face interactions that we tend to have with folks, she was advocating for what she called, I'll write it down because it was collective effervescence is what she called it. Essentially, when people get to- That's such a New York Times phrase. Yeah. Who says that in real life? And then they cited some other professor. 00:08:10 Speaker 1: Only the gray lady. 00:08:12 Speaker 2: It was a way to identify the feeling that you get when you're around a bunch of other people. A lot of times it's at concerts. A lot of times it's at sporting events. You are rooting for your team. You're singing at the top of your lungs. Your emotions are heightened, and you're also feeding off of the emotions of the people around you, and it's just a ton of fun. I don't know. There's a part of me that can really get behind this, can get behind the idea of spending your time entertainment dollars, your disposable income in ways that bring us together, right? Where we have sort of like the shared humanity as opposed to buying junk or chop skis, right? Like that's definitely not what I want to see people doing. 00:08:53 Speaker 1: I agree. I feel two ways about this. I think there's a lot of truth to that and that we buy stuff instead of funneling money towards experiences that are going to one, produce that anticipation on the front end and to the memories on the back end, I think that's a really worthwhile expense. I've talked about how I'm spending more on concert tickets, even though they're more expensive, that's becoming a crappier equivalent again, just bought four tickets to see my favorite artist in February. So like, there are all sorts of there's all sorts of truth to this. I think a couple of things that it's worth combating is one, if you don't have the money, you can't afford it. Like do not put it on the credit card and pay even more because You want the experience that makes you feel alive. And so don't go into debt. Do not spend money you don't have for the experience, even if you read this article and you're like, I understand. Yes, I want the experience. If you don't have the money, you can't afford it. And the other thing is there are lots of experiences that make you feel alive that don't cost very much. I was talking to a friend the other day. It was her birthday. And she was like, I'm getting getting my favorite people together. We're playing board games. And like, that is collective effervescence too. She was so stoked. I asked her about it after the fact, she's like, it was the best day. All my friends were there and we played some of my favorite games. Apparently King of Tokyo is a good one. I haven't played that one yet. 00:10:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. I've never even heard of that one. 00:10:12 Speaker 1: Put it on the list, right? We got to play that soon. 00:10:14 Speaker 2: Oh, interesting. 00:10:15 Speaker 1: So these are the kind of things, or a hike with a crew of friends. There are just all sorts of amazing things you can do that don't cost very much. So just don't feel like, oh, well, to make my spending effective and to feel alive, I got to buy the playoff baseball tickets, I guess that's not too far down the road coming up. 00:10:35 Speaker 2: You don't. 00:10:36 Speaker 1: And it might just be getting all your friends together at your house and buying a couple six-packs. And that is the collective effervescence you need. Do the collective effervescence, but on your budget. 00:10:45 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of budgets, there's an ally survey that talked about how a lot of folks still feel just guilty when they spend money on things that bring them joy or, you know, just on fun things. Basically, 72% of folks feel guilty. And Oh, man. Like, when I see stats like that, it makes me think that people still just haven't gotten used to where prices are now, right? And, like, yes, you can go for a hike. I love doing that. Like, there are all sorts of things you can do. But at the same time, if you know that there are things that light you up, in particular, I will say, like, It is fun to sit with a bunch of friends and play a game, but that's still different than cheering on. Dude, Joseph Moore, you were talking with him, his craft beer equivalent, going to see Caitlin Clark with his daughters. You are not able to recreate that feeling, like that elation, if that's what you're really into, even with friends, even in a more social environment. You can get close, I think. And so there's just, it was interesting though, just as far as the guilt surrounding some of the spending. And I think some of it has to do with the fact that we're so locked into 2019 prices still, right? Like that wasn't that long ago. And how much have we seen prices increase since then, right? The amount of inflation that we've seen. And I think some of it is just sort of, yes, people probably aren't saving and investing like they should. But I think there's a part of it where we just have to recalibrate what we're used to spending on things because we're thinking six years ago and thinking, oh, well, I remember what it used to cost this much. And we're still getting used to how much things cost, even though they might be our craft beer equivalent. 00:12:28 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I think the other, why the craft beer equivalent is so helpful in this conundrum to help you not feel guilty about spending money on the things you care about is because you purposely have identified a few things and you have ruthlessly cut back in other areas. You've said, No, I care so much about going to these like eight concerts a year that I have identified as a priority that I have. shop my cell phone service, my home internet service. I'm not spending extra on fancy meats for my smoker because this is the thing I care about. And when you identify two or three of those things in your life, it makes it so much easier to say no to a bunch of other stuff. And most people haven't made that identification and there's something really powerful about it. And one of the side effects is that it assuages some of that guilt you tend to feel when for spending in ways that light you up. Because it can feel guilty. It can feel like there's other financial priorities you should be tackling before spending money on this event with your friends. But if you are getting the match, you've got the emergency fund, and you have identified your craft beer equivalent, and that's one of them, you shouldn't feel guilty. You have allocated your money well, and it should relieve the guilt that you might feel. You should just be able to enjoy spending that money and not feel bad about it. 00:13:44 Speaker 2: If... You have done all those things, right? I think that's a big part of it. And I do want to acknowledge the fact that, yes, likely folks feel some guilt because they know they should be doing something a little bit smarter with their money, but they haven't. Why do you feel guilty if you come home from work and you sit down and you eat the rest of the cake or you eat the pie or you make an affogato? 00:14:07 Speaker 1: Sounds like you're speaking from personal experience here. 00:14:10 Speaker 2: If you do that, well, it's because you know that you should be eating the things that are better for you, right? The things that are going to actually aid in better recovery and cellular health and nutrients, you know, like all this stuff. You feel a little guilty because that's taking the place. And when it's like an either or sort of situation, I think that's when the guilt kicks in because you know you should be doing something a little more, I don't know, a little more prudent. Beneficial. Yeah. 00:14:37 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it makes me, there's this article in the Washington Post about emotions and how they get the best of us when it comes to spending. And I think this is also just a total, complete reality of our time that what do people tend to do in bed? They're scrolling, whether that's through videos or whether that's through shopping sites. And I think people are looking sometimes, we live in a dopamine hit kind of culture and a quick scroll, a quick purchase can often make us feel a little bit better, help us go to sleep, right? But Often that's, we buy stuff that we don't need in that period of time, Matt, and we end up harming our finances in the process. And I think the key to this is we have to develop different habits. And I think experts have identified that being on your phone before bed is really bad for you anyway, right? The blue light, the mental stimulation, it doesn't help you get good sleep. At the same time, if we're buying stuff, right, whether it's something served up to us through Instagram or Or through the newsletter to one of our favorite sites that has 20% off, even though we don't really need to buy anything right now, we go ahead and we jump on it. And so we might need different habits, whether that's leaving the phone out of the bedroom or at least at minimum having some sort of 24-hour delay. We stick it in the cart, but we don't click purchase. And we come back tomorrow in the morning with a fresh set of eyes to see whether or not we actually want to buy that item. I think there are lots of ways that we can reduce the role that emotion plays. in a purchase, even if we're not trying to become stoic robots. 00:16:07 Speaker 2: I think for you, it's, I'm guessing you don't have like a dopamine hit when you buy something for you. It's like getting the deal, you know, like. Yeah, no, you're right. 00:16:16 Speaker 1: I mean, it is like, if I get a great deal on something, even if I don't need that thing. 00:16:21 Speaker 2: That's what makes you feel warm and cuddly inside. 00:16:24 Speaker 1: And that's why I have, Emily can wrap me out on this. I'll wrap myself out though. That's probably why I have seven pair, like boxes of fresh running shoes. At the top of my closet, because I got the $ 150 pair of shoes for 50 bucks, thanks to a combo of a discounted gift card. 00:16:40 Speaker 2: That's a good deal. And the sale. 00:16:41 Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm going to use them at some point, so might as well load up now. But I probably need to stop for now until I put some miles on those shoes. 00:16:50 Speaker 2: We'll save this for an AMA at some point in the future. Who's got more pairs of shoes in the closet, Joel or Emily? That's me, for sure. Yeah. 00:16:59 Speaker 1: And it's all just extra boxes of running shoes, just waiting. waiting for me to get to it. 00:17:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say something that stood out to me in that Washington Post article as well is they talked about, and I don't think many folks are going to do this, but I really like this idea. I really like the strategy, which was to write down anything that you buy, basically anything, but then write down how you were feeling before that, what you purchased, and then write down how you feel after the fact as well. Uh, and essentially, cause, cause they're talking about, it's not necessarily just feeling sad where you need a quick pick me up. They're like, sometimes people like when they're feeling happy, like that's when they're purchasing things. And so I, I, it was just a great way for folks. If this is something that you're struggling with to identify the emotions that you're feeling and what the sort of default actions might be, what your behaviors might be, especially when it comes to purchasing, um, That stood out to me as well as talking about creating a dopamine menu, which I was just like, this is awesome. I've never, and I guess we've kind of talked about this at some point in the past, but essentially creating a list, a very easily accessible list of things that you can do when you feel those urges, right? Like when you are feeling a little down, normally you go shopping. Well, instead you call a friend. Or instead, you go for a hike or you go for a run. Or instead, you clean out one of the drawers in your desk because you're going to have a similar sort of like, oh, I checked something. Oh, you know, I'm making progress. In a similar way, when it comes to food, I was kind of talking about cake and apple pie and stuff like that earlier. But like, this is why, like, it's, if you don't want to eat chips, don't buy the chips. Because if you're hungry, what's really easy to do? Grab the chips, open that bag. Crunchy, salty. Amazing, right? As opposed to grabbing a piece of fruit or something like that. So there's these external sort of controls that we can put on ourselves that can limit the kind of behaviors that we want to see limited as well. I love that. 00:19:06 Speaker 1: I love that having kind of different options on the menu when we're feeling something. I think it's easier than ever. We're being pulled on constantly to make purchases. And if we want to be able to afford those things that we have we have designated as higher quality purchases for us. We have to avoid the pull of the mindless BS stuff that isn't actually what we want. We're just doing it in a moment of emotional weakness. And so, yeah, identifying other things, other outlets. Maybe you paint a picture. Maybe you like to draw. Get a little canvas out. 00:19:43 Speaker 2: And even if you're not good at it, maybe that's your outlet instead of feeling like you have to slap your credit card down to buy something. 00:19:50 Speaker 1: Totally. 00:19:51 Speaker 2: Joel, can we talk about college? Because there's an article over in Yahoo. Even though I haven't logged into my Yahoo email address in over 20 years, normally that makes me kind of discount Yahoo. But they got this right. Yahoo. Yahoo. i'm assuming you had a yahoo email address right like everyone had yahoo. 00:20:10 Speaker 1: I think i skipped yahoo i think i went maybe straight from aol to gmail. 00:20:15 Speaker 2: Oh really look at you um yeah first it was aol slash aim because of course young people they don't know about the glories of aol you were sending the instant messages uh Messages over. So yeah, AIM, Yahoo. 00:20:30 Speaker 1: I bet if they brought back AOLS and Messenger now, people would choose it over like Snapchat. I think it'd be a little retro vibe. I'd sign back up. 00:20:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see something happening. Anyway, Yahoo, they got it right. There's an article talking about how people need to stop over-prioritizing saving for your kid's college, right? Folks need to stop prioritizing 529s and instead they need to be looking towards retirement accounts. Were you happy to see this? Yes. 00:20:58 Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with that advice. And like there was a stat in there that I found. I totally understand this compulsion. It said that something like nearly nine in 10 parents say that their own student debt motivates them to save in advance to help their kids with with their. So they avoid that same fate. And I understand that like that. And just seeing the headlines to loan debt, seeing the stories about it. I want my kids to avoid student loan debt, too. But there's a reason, Matt, that we put saving, investing for your child's college way down the line in money gear number seven. That's our last money gear. There's so many other more important things to take care of before you get there. So just it's, I mean, the same analogy, Matt, that we've used before, putting the oxygen mask on yourself before you put it on somebody else. If you pass out on the airplane while you're attempting to put it on your child, like you can't help the next kid. So you really do need to take care of yourself. It's not a selfish thing to do. The 529 plan is a great thing to be able to save for your child's future, but only if you have been saving and investing wisely for years and you've got the emergency fund built up. And then you can have, I think, the comfort level to start funding the 529 as well. Yeah. 00:22:14 Speaker 2: It's not about not helping out your kids. It's just about getting things in the right order. right? It is all about that. And to that end, I would say that folks should probably start sooner than you think, not saving for your kid's college, but for your own retirement, right? Like, I think about the situation that I think a lot of folks find themselves in. And like, they're like, oh, it's my 20s and my 30s. I just want to have fun. Like, who needs to start saving for retirement? But when you get that ball rolling and you start and you initiate that magic of compounding, Well, by the time you're in your 30s and 40s and you've got kids and you're starting to look off and you're starting to think, oh, man, we need to start saving for college. Like there's less stress. You've got a little more margin. Why? Because you have started already saving for your own retirement, right? 00:23:02 Speaker 1: The snowball is already going downhill. 00:23:04 Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah. So I am all for folks wanting to do that. It's just... It's basically, it's what it is, is saying no to yourself more earlier on, right? Yeah. Instead of doing all the fun stuff in your 20s and 30s, it's just like, let's, I don't know, maybe we can, there's a way you can, you know, have your craft beer equivalents, but like, let's get that ball rolling, prioritize retirement, have time on our side, then we can prioritize kids' college. And then by the time You've basically got that under wraps. You've got much more margin to have fun. And you can do that without guilt, like we were just saying. And you can do that very intentionally in a way that's not going to set you back when it comes to your ability to reach financial independence and your ability to retire. 00:23:48 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great goal. It's a great endeavor, but only if done in the right order. And for some people, it might not even make the top 10 list, you know, but for other people, it might it. it might be fifth or sixth down the list of importance, right? And so 529s can be a great way to save for your kids, but only if you save and invest it for yourself first. Let's talk about socialism for a second, Matt. Can we do that? 00:24:13 Speaker 2: Sure. Okay. 00:24:15 Speaker 1: So usually you and I. 00:24:16 Speaker 2: How's this going to go? 00:24:18 Speaker 1: Well, we try to avoid political topics, but socialism I feel like is... There's something it's something that's being talked about as a society more and more. You and I have talked about economic systems before we've talked about capitalism, free markets. And and there is, I think, kind of like a backlash right now against capitalism, free markets. And it's interesting when you look at the surveys. Part of it depends on how the question is asked. People tend to dislike capitalism more. a lot more than they dislike free markets. They actually tend to like the term free markets, right? And so does capitalism just have a branding problem? 00:24:55 Speaker 2: Is that what's going on? There's part of that. 00:24:56 Speaker 1: There's part of that. But I think there's also, and there was a response to an article in the Wall Street Journal from a reader that they published, and I thought this was actually really good, parsing out some of these details. I think there's frustration from both sides. And the thing that this younger writer was getting at was how older Americans, they talk about how much they dislike socialism. But then if you talk about cutting government entitlement programs, they get really upset about it. Right. And so what this younger reader is saying is that the older generation of Americans have kind of used redistribution to their advantage, potentially harming younger generations. And I do think there's some truth to that. And so, uh, I think in some ways, it's not surprising, it's not shocking to me that when the economy isn't working as well for everyone, people turn to these sorts of beliefs, even if they're not necessarily the. 00:25:55 Speaker 2: Best way forward. Yeah. To me, this feels less like, I mean, this is less a socialism versus free markets or capitalism kind of argument. To me, this has everything to do with government spending, right? Because if you talk to young folks in any survey out there, Like, where are we seeing the highest prices? Where are we seeing unaffordability? We're seeing it in college, right? We were just talking about that. You see it in housing. You see it in healthcare. It's the three H's. In every single one of those instances, that is where the government has gotten involved and has completely distorted the market, right? And so I think this is more of an argument for less government spending, which then... sticks future generations. So that's your younger people part of the conversation with the bill while also, yes. Uh, that their parents ran up essentially. 00:26:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:26:49 Speaker 2: Yeah. And while there are still entitlements being, being paid out. So I don't know, man, it's, to me, it feels more like people wanting to have their cake and eat it too. Uh, and not being willing to kind of austerity, right? Like cutting back a little bit, just tightening the belt, uh, in a way that's, that's responsible and, uh, Our government certainly hasn't been very responsible when it comes to how much we've been spending. 00:27:16 Speaker 1: We're also using terms in different– like a term like socialism gets used in a bunch of different ways that it's almost lost some meaning. And I think in some way– what some people mean is government owning more businesses or something like that, which is happening actually right now under our current administration. You typically associate it with more left-leaning politics. But the other thing, what I think people mean even more of is greater levels of redistribution from the top to the bottom, which I think is not necessarily– that's not just tied up in the phrase socialism. There's a lot more– it's doing a lot more heavy lifting in that regard. So I don't know that we have a solution. I think I understand why people are frustrated. And part of the frustration, like what– part of the resolution for this is– our government getting its fiscal house in order. And there doesn't seem to be any real political. 00:28:12 Speaker 2: Will to make that happen. Yeah. As opposed to continuing. And again, we see this on both sides of the aisle, being willing to say that we're just going to open up the cash hose and just, you know, flood everyone's accounts with money, which is not the path we need to take in order to get our financial house in order. 00:28:31 Speaker 1: We got more to get to though, Matt. Let's get to the ludicrous headline of the week. There's more that you're mad about. I know it. People want to hear it. They want to hear you rant and rage. We'll get to that. And we'll talk about tax advantage ways to save for a down payment for a home. We'll get to that and more right after this. All right, buddy. 00:28:57 Speaker 2: We are back from the break. It is now time for the Ludicrous Headline of the Week, which comes from The Journal. And the headline reads, It's getting harder to return things, and it's making shoppers mad. I think you might get a little more fired up about this one personally. 00:29:14 Speaker 1: So, I am personally mad about this, Matt. 00:29:15 Speaker 2: Are you? Okay, good. 00:29:17 Speaker 1: There was a shirt I bought the other day, and it... I initiated the return process. 00:29:23 Speaker 2: Man, shirts, shoes. I know. Joel's on his fashion kick. 00:29:28 Speaker 1: Got to look good, baby. All right? We're on YouTube now. So I initiated a return and didn't get the return slip. And I was like, what's going on? So I sent an email. 00:29:38 Speaker 2: And they said, oh, that process. 00:29:40 Speaker 1: Was on sale. We don't accept returns on sale items. And typically when you buy something, it says final sale, right? And you know that that means no returns. Even then, you got to be careful because that really sucks. Like to not have the ability to take it back if it's even just the wrong size. 00:29:56 Speaker 2: Where'd you buy it? This, okay. 00:29:58 Speaker 1: So it was this small... small business out in California. It was like a skater, skating, skateboard company that sold a brand that I like. And I'm not like Tony Hawk or anything, but I like to wear cool duds. And so I emailed them and they responded quickly and they were really nice about it, but they were like, sorry, we don't take returns on sale items. And I was like, dude, what? It didn't say that anywhere. Yeah, if I click through to the fine print on the returns, but you're not expecting that on the front end. 00:30:29 Speaker 2: Right. 00:30:30 Speaker 1: That that they won't take a sale product unless it says final sale. So I think, yes, this is becoming a pain point more and more. If it whether it's they're kind of upfront about it or not, not taking stuff back that you've bought. And when we're buying more and more stuff online, it's a thorn in people's side. 00:30:47 Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like the sub headline for this article could have been this is why we can't have nice things, Joel, because the article is also talking about just the enormous cost. that retailers bear when people are taking advantage of the system right like when you're actually abusing it makes me think back to costco and the people bringing back tires mattresses uh the article kind of they highlighted how they're trying to crack down on people who are essentially using return policies as a way to rent seasonal clothing even right like where you wear it for for a season and you're like all right uh winter's over i'm switching over to summer right like this is why we can't have nice things. And so historically, as online shopping has ramped up, what that has meant is that people have the ability to easily return things, typically, free of charge, very generous return policies. And that leaves retailers in a bind, right? So they got one of two options. They either take the overall cost and kind of impose it on everyone, where you just kind of have higher prices all around, or you take the other path, And you say something like, you know, $ 8 restocking fee or just a more limited return policy. And so I guess the question I've got for you, what would you rather see? Would you rather it be easy and simple, straightforward across the board for everyone? Or do you want to see the people who are making the returns? They're the ones that get hit with the $ 8 surcharge at a minimum. 00:32:13 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think probably the latter and I'm okay with more draconian restrictions on returns because yes, the cost is high to the retailers. I just don't like the opaque nature of it. So just make it very clear as to what the policy is. Yeah. And don't say that it was buried somewhere in the terms of service that I neglected to read because I don't read the terms of service and the return policy for every single retailer before I make a purchase. And so that was what was frustrating to me. And if they had said under the listing of the item I was buying, no returns accepted, I might not have made the purchase in the first place because I wasn't 100% sure, but I definitely would have thought twice about it. And I wouldn't have felt like a complete idiot when I tried to make the return and wasn't able to. So yeah, more draconian or higher charges on returns are fine with me, but retailers just need to make it clear on the front end so that you can make a wise decision. 00:33:11 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a part of the problem is just how we've been trained to shop, right? We've gotten used to the free returns. It makes me think about shipping too. We've gotten used to stuff showing up so quickly. I saw that Walmart says now that 60% of US households, they can get something to them within 30 minutes or less, which is just like completely mind blowing to me. I don't understand. Well, you think about it. Some of it's like fun with stats, right? Where it's just like, well, that's because 90% of the US population lives in these metropolitan areas or whatever. But even still, it's very impressive. And it just points to just, I don't know, how accessible the online world is when it comes to the goods that we can purchase. We get used to something that's really nice like that. And initially it's free, but then they start charging for it, right? It's tough to put the thing back in the, you know, it's tough to close Pandora's box. I used to say this about sliding doors on the vans. Once you go automatic sliding, it's really tough to not want to have automatic sliding doors on the minivan, right? If you've got kids. So we get used to certain luxuries and this is. 00:34:17 Speaker 1: One of them. 00:34:18 Speaker 2: Exactly. 00:34:19 Speaker 1: It's very similar to car upgrades, right? And once you have automatic windows, going back to the roll crank windows, you ain't going to do that, right? I hope more people will with this new slate truck, but I don't know. 00:34:32 Speaker 2: We'll see. 00:34:33 Speaker 1: But I think the same is true of the genies out of the bottle when it comes to faster delivery. But faster delivery also costs more money. And so we have to be okay with higher prices across the board. Same thing with getting things delivered to your home, whether it's food or groceries. Cool that it exists. The more you partake in it, the more it's going to increase your costs. And maybe there's higher profit margins for retailers. But if you're worried about your bottom line, you need to take a different route. Be okay with the slower shipping PO. 00:35:02 Speaker 2: Like. 00:35:02 Speaker 1: be okay going to get your own groceries, at least curbside pickup or whatever. Those are the kind of trade-offs we have to make. But I think as a society, when we're focused on shipping in under an hour or two hours, then it's going to result to increased costs for all of us. Listen to Joel talking about at least do the curbside pickup. 00:35:21 Speaker 2: I remember the episode where you're talking about going into the store and you're just like, I like to pick out each individual apple or something. 00:35:28 Speaker 1: I do like, yeah, I do like individual apples. I don't want that. I don't want the mealy apples. I don't want the, I want the ones with that perfect color, like not overly red, but not under red. 00:35:37 Speaker 2: You know, I feel like color. Perfect honey crisp apple is a blessing and a wonder. Color is less of a indicator of, uh, a good, good apple or not. Like it, it all comes down to the, the different, the varieties that they've make now. Like you mentioned honey crisp, but cosmic crisps are also, also really good. Like everyone, yeah, nobody wants that mealy apple. Everyone wants the, uh, The ones that crunch. Hey, so earlier, before the break, we were talking about saving for college. We were talking about 529 plans. Basically, Nebraska has created a 529 account, but for housing, right? 00:36:14 Speaker 1: The Cornhusker State. 00:36:16 Speaker 2: Yes. So this is a tax-advantaged account that allows, it's first-time homebuyers, right? That's right. I didn't have time to pour through all the details of this bill. But it's, yeah, it's incredible. 00:36:28 Speaker 1: It's similar to the 529. For people who want to buy a home, but they're like, it's slow going over here. Down payment money for your first home purchase in the state of Nebraska. Is there a tax advantaged way that I can put money into a specific account that allows me to invest and grow that money without getting massively taxed on the growth? And yeah, Nebraska has launched this. I think it launches next year. It's this incentivized It incentivizes people towards medium-term investment goals, which I think is awesome. There's been talk about doing something like this at the federal level. It hasn't come to pass. I think there's been a couple of proposals. But when there are tax advantage ways for a lot of people buying a house, let's say you're 23, 24, 25 starting out. This is one of those things where if over the course of the next four, six years, eight years, You can start putting money, let's say, I think in Nebraska, $ 3, 000 or $ 4, 000 contribution limit. But over the course of six years, you have $ 24, 000 plus the returns. So you might have $ 38, 000 or something like that, $ 35, 000 hanging out in that account. And it's been just through slow, methodical, putting money aside, letting it grow in the market, and then it's ready for you to plunk down on the house when you're ready for it. 00:37:52 Speaker 2: I think this is awesome. Yeah. I like it too, because the ability for states to act as their own little laboratories here and try something like this out at a state level, see if it's going to work. But it makes sense too, because you want to incentivize folks to live in your state, right? It's not just like state pride, but just the ability to grow the population, incentivize people and therefore business to also move to that state. That's why states offer those scholarship programs, by the way, because they want to retain... talent. 00:38:24 Speaker 1: And they say, if you stay in state and you go to school here, you're more likely to get a job here, to plant roots here, to have a family here, to stay around and pay taxes here. And so it's almost like a state investment in the overall economic health of the state moving forward into the future. 00:38:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel like we got to touch on just given where rates have been, given where mortgage rates are. We got to touch on housing a little bit here from a financing standpoint as well. Makes me think about Years ago, was it 22, maybe 23, when the marry the house, date the rate sort of meme was going around. That was a lot of realtors' favorite. 00:39:04 Speaker 1: You can always refinance later, and then you'll lower your housing costs. 00:39:07 Speaker 2: Well, given the way things have been going, I don't see anybody refinancing anytime soon, man. It's not looking good. And this is just a great, I don't know, not to be like, whoa, we told you so. But And you kind of share this story often too, just where like somebody, like when your dad was younger, he was just like, hey, expect the best essentially is what is the advice that he was given, right? When it comes to being able to afford certain things or just planning ahead. I think a lot of folks. 00:39:40 Speaker 1: Buy the nicer house, you'll get a raise. 00:39:42 Speaker 2: You're going to get a raise. 00:39:43 Speaker 1: And then it'll be easy to afford it, you know? 00:39:44 Speaker 2: You're on that track. Yeah. Right. In a similar way, I think a lot of folks did that when it came to housing now, where it's just like, you know what? That actually is outside of what we feel comfortable with. But yeah, we're going to be able to refinance. And when you're talking about the largest line item on everyone's budget, housing, man, you're playing with fire. If you enter into a purchase like that, where you're forced to pay out more that allows you to hit some of your other financial goals, man. I hate seeing folks in a financial position where they're just, where they're thinking about this more than they should be, right? Like this shouldn't be something that's on their mind. They should be focused on other things. They should be working on getting ahead at work, on innovating, on being a better spouse, being a better partner, trying to being a better father, ways to make your community better, right? Like these are all the things that we need to focus on. And it's tough to do that when you feel cash strats because you find yourself locked in at, gosh, I mean, we're over 7% now on 30-year rates. 00:40:47 Speaker 1: Close to it. Close to the threshold. And obviously shopping around, the discrepancy can be significant. So it's even more important right now to do the shopping, to look. 00:40:54 Speaker 2: At the headline rates. Yeah. 00:40:56 Speaker 1: I hate it. 00:40:56 Speaker 2: I don't like it. 00:40:58 Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's one of those things where we said this at the time, 3% rates are the anomaly. And this is, do not expect rates to go back down to this level or even to, well, they're going to go back down at least to like 5%, right? Maybe, maybe not. And you can't plan on hopes. You can hope that that happens, but only if you can currently afford the mortgage now. And then if refinancing means that, hey, I got even more money freed up in my life. But you have to go in eyes wide open realizing- there's a chance that rates never dip back below 6%, 6% on average. But I mean, they could, it's hard to know. We're in a very uncertain economic environment. Similar, Matt, think about apartment rents. They've been like for a minute, hot minute during COVID, we were hearing from listeners who were like, I cannot afford the increase in rent. What is happening? And now we have seen the opposite taking place. Rent's plunging in some parts of the country, remaining steady in many parts. And as mortgage rates go up, I think that is actually going to, that's going to change too. I have a feeling that apartment rents, and Connor Sen, who writes for Bloomberg and has a sub stack, wrote about this the other day, and I think he's right, that apartment rents are likely to go up, right? As people say, housing became unaffordable, again, rates are too high, along with prices. Guess I'll stay put in my apartment or single family home that I'm renting. And for a lot of people, I think prices are likely to go up on that front, maybe not nearly as high of a clip as we saw during the heart of kind of the COVID hikes. But I do think we're going to start seeing prices on rents go up. 00:42:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I think folks were hoping and given politically where things were going that we would see rates decrease. And with that, more of an ability to purchase a home. But as things deteriorate, As inflation has not yet been tamed and we're seeing high prices, right? We're seeing rates continue to go up. 00:43:02 Speaker 1: Actionable advice on that, by the way, is to lock in rent with your landlord if you're so inclined. If you like where you're at and you think the price is good, to go to your landlord proactively. I literally had a tenant reach out the other day and they're like, hey, we're interested in renewing for next year. This is a perfect time for that tenant, if they're listening, I don't know if they are, to say, hey, I'd like to sign a lease for two years at the current rate. That makes the landlord feel good. They're not going to have to worry about vacancy. It kind of settles some of their potential issues. It locks in a lower rate for you. This is a good time before rents go up, but it looks like they might in the coming years to kind of lock in that low rate if you like your place. 00:43:44 Speaker 2: So while we're talking about housing, man, I feel like we should talk about how different cities... are incentivizing folks. I feel like, again, during the pandemic, this was blowing up because I feel like everyone was moving to certain parts of the country. Folks were moving out of the cities. Certain cities in, I don't know, in the heartland were trying to incentivize folks to, hey, consider Texarkana, right? 00:44:09 Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's somewhere right around the Texas-Arkansas border. 00:44:12 Speaker 2: Is that how you say it? Texarkana? Texarkana? Um, so this website, it's make my move.com. Uh, it's so fascinating. And, uh, basically they have combined all of the different programs that exist all over the country, um, in certain areas. And it's, it's just really interesting. Some of them, there is straight up like cash money. So there's Texarkana one I was looking at. Uh, they've got $ 5, 000 straight up for cash, uh, cash for relocation. Um, But that being said, the bottom line number is 18,900. And so you see that and you think, wait a minute, why? Why am I not considering? Wait, where is this place? We should move there. But then you look at it. It's really funny because it's like breakfast with Texarkana's key community leaders. A Texarkana welcome basket. Yeah. 50% off yoga membership, CrossFit membership. There's all these things. It makes me think of like the credit card benefits that you get, right? Where it's just like, hey, make this massive purchase. It's not a purchase, but in essence it is, right? When you're talking about annual fees and you're going to receive all of these benefits. In some cases, yes, you might receive a lot of it. And certainly if you were already thinking about moving to that area, right? Essentially what we're talking about here is cost of living. As folks are trying to find a way to reduce their overall cost of living, moving from higher cost of living areas to places that are a little more affordable, you got to take some of these incentives into account. But at the same time, man, yeah, you don't want the Texarkana tax incentive, tax incentive, you know, you don't want that incentive to wag the dog here. But it's still fascinating. I think if I was in a different stage of life, I would be a bit more open to it. 00:46:07 Speaker 1: I was surprised at how many places in Indiana want folks to move there. And the other biggest, the biggest number I saw that I thought was news you can use on that on makemymove.com was that the average person who moves to one of these more rural destinations and takes advantage of these perks and potentially free cash deployed to them for moving. is they save $ 20, 000 in their first year of moving there because the reason they're moving in part is to get out of a higher cost of living area, to get into a lower cost of living spot. That has an even more dramatic impact than the five grand. It's the fact that you pay less money in rent or to buy a home. And for a lot of people in the era of work from home, although that's lessening to a degree, those people have the ability to keep their job, keep their pay the same, and just reduce their cost of living and maybe find a little community to nestle in that's good for them. So I don't think this is for most people, but I do think it is for some people. And especially if you say, it's really expensive to live where I live. Well, it's not like that across all of the United States. There are some places that are much cheaper to live. And you can still live in this country and hopefully be close enough to an airport to go visit friends and family where you used to live and you could potentially save a ton of money by, by moving somewhere that wasn't necessarily on your radar before. 00:47:27 Speaker 2: Yep. Yep. That's worth considering. I'm curious to see, I would love to hear from any listeners actually, if this is something you've taken advantage of, because we've talked about this when these were blowing up a few years ago, like during the pandemic. Yeah. We talked about Arkansas. 00:47:40 Speaker 1: There was some, some places in Arkansas that had like killer trails and mountain bike trails. 00:47:45 Speaker 2: Yes. I specifically remember talking about that free mountain bike or something to move that part of Arkansas. 00:47:49 Speaker 1: I was like, that's kind of cool. 00:47:51 Speaker 2: You're like, wow, I can't believe I'm about to move my whole family for a mountain bike, but I think I'm going to do it, Joel. I do like a deal, Matt. Yeah. All right. That's going to be it for this Friday flight. We hope everyone has a fantastic weekend. We'll see you back here on Monday. Head over to the How to Money Pod channel over on YouTube. Check us out over there if you have not yet already done that. But buddy, until next time. I look particularly good today as well. 00:48:16 Speaker 1: Best friends out. 00:48:17 Speaker 2: Best friends out.