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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: nor with your doctor David Shorter with us. We'll take

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Speaker 1: calls with David the next hour here on Coast to Coast. David,

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Speaker 1: your grandmother had a influence on you as well, didn't she. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my father was traveling kind of Monday through Friday. I

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Speaker 1: didn't really see him because he would come home sullly,

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Speaker 1: or his hours weren't particable. Oftentimes he had to be

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Speaker 1: out on the missile range in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: night for testing, and so because of that, they just

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Speaker 1: sort of thought of the best if I lived with

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Speaker 1: someone who was home twenty four to seven. And I

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Speaker 1: was very lucky to have a great grandmother. Of course,

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Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you don't really know the difference.

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Speaker 1: To me, she was just my grandmother, and she had

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Speaker 1: people come to her house and she would, you might

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Speaker 1: want to say, work with them on their dreams. She

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Speaker 1: had a garden where she had plants and would make

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Speaker 1: them teas and poltices. She was what in Spanish would

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Speaker 1: say the coudondata or a healer, and so I mean

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to believe that my father's possibly

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Speaker 1: doing top secret UFO research and I'm spending Monday's Friday

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Speaker 1: with a woman who's healing people to the Mexican tradition.

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Speaker 1: You could imagine. When I got to college, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was really weird. Absolutely, and then this influence on

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Speaker 1: you must have been outstanding for you to carry this

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Speaker 1: with you now where you've met a career out of it. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean when I go to mediums and psychics and

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Speaker 1: I ask if I can interview, then if I can

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Speaker 1: record what they're doing, and then interview some of their

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Speaker 1: clients and report some of their clients. I think one

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Speaker 1: of the things that has shocked me the most is

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Speaker 1: that inside those conversations I've had, some of the better

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Speaker 1: mediums or psychics have said, oh, yeah, absolutely, your grandmother

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Speaker 1: made this possible for you to show up today, or

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Speaker 1: they were just sort of like name now, I sort

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Speaker 1: of know grandmother the trope in the psychic medium world.

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Speaker 1: They dropped out a lot like you have an Indian

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Speaker 1: grandmothers and like that. But in this case I always

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Speaker 1: find it very interesting because in some ways they are

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Speaker 1: the modern contemporary version of what my Grandma was probably

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Speaker 1: doing back then. Is your class Alien Psychics and Ghosts

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Speaker 1: at UCLA credited course? It is not only credited, it's

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Speaker 1: actually one of the few writing two courses. So a

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Speaker 1: student cannot graduate from UCLA without taking writing one and

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Speaker 1: writing two. An Alien Psychic and ghost is a writing

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Speaker 1: two class, which means that it's one of the required

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Speaker 1: It's one of the category of required courses that you

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Speaker 1: actually have to have something from that category. I would

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Speaker 1: guess it's wildly popular, isn't it. It feels up in

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Speaker 1: about seven seconds from the moment that registration opens and

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Speaker 1: the wait list is in the hundreds. What are some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you discovered as a professor as

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Speaker 1: a student about the paranormal that just boggles your mind? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that I think our contemporary political moment is

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Speaker 1: one of those moments where there's just a huge chazard

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Speaker 1: between what people say is real and what it's true,

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Speaker 1: and then the real life experience of so many other people. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, you know, I frequently have Whitley Straber into

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Speaker 1: my class to talk. Yeah, Whitley and I had a

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Speaker 1: really great relationship for many years, and he would commently

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Speaker 1: talk to the students, or I would have healers, I

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Speaker 1: would have energy workers, I would have witches. I would

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Speaker 1: have mediums come and do psychic readings for the class, right,

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Speaker 1: or I would have I would play John Edward, who

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Speaker 1: had who used to have this TV show called Crossing Over,

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Speaker 1: and we would like we would sort of study him,

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Speaker 1: you know, to the second, pausing the video and seeing

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Speaker 1: what he's doing with his eyes and how the honence's agalisim.

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Speaker 1: And in that process you could have one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty students and it's just really crazy. You'll have fifty

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Speaker 1: who are one hundred percent convinced and a hundred who

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Speaker 1: would not believe it no matter what you show them.

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Speaker 1: It's as if evidence will not speak to certain people.

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Speaker 1: And I guess in some ways when you say what

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Speaker 1: surprises me about to study the paranormal is that it's

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Speaker 1: a reflection of our political contemporary moment where some people

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Speaker 1: are unconvinceable. It doesn't really matter what you show them.

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Speaker 1: They've already made up their mind and they're not going

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Speaker 1: to really change it no matter what you do. What years, David,

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Speaker 1: if you had the spect light, was your father involved

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Speaker 1: with this within the government, Well, he moved up the

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Speaker 1: ranks so that his actual job changed in nineteen I

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Speaker 1: can point us off a benchmark because of a fairly

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Speaker 1: good memory as a child. In nineteen seventy nine, he's

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Speaker 1: still working. So he had started this job in the

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Speaker 1: mid sixties. By the mid to late seventies, he's still

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Speaker 1: looking at objects that they're bringing to him. He's been

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Speaker 1: he's traveling to crash site. He's sort of on an

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Speaker 1: investigative team, like in helicopters that are flying to where

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Speaker 1: there was a crash site. They're the first to be there.

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Speaker 1: They're sort of looking at where the landing paths are

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Speaker 1: to look for bodies. He sometimes sent in the seventies

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Speaker 1: and eighties early eighties to go interview people. He talked

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Speaker 1: to nurses who saw alien bodies brought in. He interviewed them.

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Speaker 1: He introduced me to one of them so that I

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Speaker 1: could record her. You know, there were all these sort

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Speaker 1: of things you might want to say that you might

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Speaker 1: want to say on the front line, they're sort of

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Speaker 1: doing on the ground research. But you fast to like

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Speaker 1: the two thousands, and I'm already at that point a

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Speaker 1: graduate student. He's not doing that sort of stuff. He's

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Speaker 1: managing facilities to make sure that toxic wastes disposed of properly.

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Speaker 1: So his position changed, But I would say the nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven to I'd say two thousand and two were

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Speaker 1: the main you might want to say decades that he

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Speaker 1: was very active in those programs. Project Blue Book ended

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, at least publicly, so there was

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Speaker 1: a little overlap. He might have been aware of that.

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Speaker 1: What do you think he knew one percent about that?

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Speaker 1: In fact, he thought, yeah, I mean, I haven't said

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Speaker 1: a lot of this publicly yet, but he knew. He

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Speaker 1: knew those people. He knew which parts he would say

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Speaker 1: to me were outright lies. He knew which parts of

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Speaker 1: it were perhaps hinting at the closest that we'll ever

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Speaker 1: get to the truth, particularly about certain Air Force spaces

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Speaker 1: and what they had in their possession that was extraterrestrial,

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Speaker 1: which extraterrestrial based technologies had been gone on to be

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Speaker 1: part of what we now consider our defense industry, what

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Speaker 1: those sort of those sort of engineering big questions. He

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Speaker 1: knew about those, and he had thought that the Project's

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Speaker 1: Blue Book was the best possible public face the government

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Speaker 1: could have at the time. He must have known doctor J. L. Hinek.

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Speaker 1: Then he actually he actually did know doctor Hinek. And

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting because my father they separated when I

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Speaker 1: was nine, even though he remained close to him and

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Speaker 1: my mom. And it's what's really interesting is that he

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Speaker 1: had this life where he felt very watched, He felt

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Speaker 1: very insecure. He had been told many times you could

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Speaker 1: just disappear if you ever tell anybody anything. He was

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Speaker 1: one confident that there were men in black and that

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Speaker 1: they were watching him. He raised a kid who went

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Speaker 1: on to get a PhD and become a professor, who

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Speaker 1: is very funny. You can sort of like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: like my dad at all, But then when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, I'm actually wrestling with the same question. Did

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Speaker 1: he ever talk about the Roswell Crash of forty seven

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Speaker 1: many times. We actually had good friends in Roswell who

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Speaker 1: my father knew through his work, So we talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about the Roswell Crash. We talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: the Choral crash, and then later on we talked a

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Speaker 1: lot about the Crapporate, Texas sightings and the Mexico City sightings.

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Speaker 1: He phoned in to several you might want to say

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Speaker 1: sightings as the key moments when things changed. What do

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Speaker 1: you what do you think about Roswell? David, Roswell's a

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Speaker 1: dangling set of keys to get your attention to look

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Speaker 1: at it so that you don't look at something else.

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Speaker 1: That's that's remember I said early in the conversation he

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Speaker 1: thought a lot of what people looked at in terms

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Speaker 1: of upology were sort of chasing some chasing ghosts to

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Speaker 1: make my metaphors. He thought Roswell was a means by

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Speaker 1: which the the government allowed people to believe in things

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Speaker 1: like little green men and let it turn into a

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Speaker 1: sort of tourist circus shide so because then it keeps

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Speaker 1: the public sort of laughy and entertainment, and that's a

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Speaker 1: much better, you might want to say, perspective for the

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Speaker 1: public to have than an investigative, scurious one. But was

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Speaker 1: it realm There was a real crash and it did

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Speaker 1: have bodies. You sound like you sound like you're you're

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Speaker 1: holding back for a reason, are you well? I think

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Speaker 1: that my father was worried for a real for a

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Speaker 1: real reason, which is that he thinks that the information

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Speaker 1: that is the truth as he saw it, would actually

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Speaker 1: be incredibly damaging to the public. Face of the US government.

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Speaker 1: If the if people knew that in the deserts of

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Speaker 1: New Mexico, the US government or US government contract groups

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Speaker 1: were putting up in maneuverable drone like planes, humans who

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Speaker 1: were perhaps on the spectrum or disabled functionally in some way,

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Speaker 1: and knowing that that person was going to risk life

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Speaker 1: for this experiment. I think in hindsight, we'd not look

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Speaker 1: very favorably on our own government, and that sort of

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Speaker 1: information would of course lead for people to want to

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Speaker 1: shut him up. I think that's what my dad's view was.

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Speaker 1: So are you saying that your father has told you

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Speaker 1: that Roswell was a real event, but it was created

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Speaker 1: by us. These were our craft, These were our little

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Speaker 1: so called alien people. Yes, that's what my dad felt.

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Speaker 1: My dad felt that. Could he have been wrong, Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: everyone could be wrong. My dad could have been wrong.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about a person who knew that missile range

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Speaker 1: like the back of his hand, like maybe less than

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Speaker 1: another dozen people did. He did not read u ethology,

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Speaker 1: he did not watch, you know, ancient aliens. He was

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Speaker 1: not engaged in the popular consumption of uthology stuff. When

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Speaker 1: I would say to him, oh, you mean, it's like

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Speaker 1: the Nick Redford book. He didn't know who that was,

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Speaker 1: He didn't know what that book was about. But he

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Speaker 1: was telling a story about scientists who were Germans who

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Speaker 1: were living in old ranchers homes that were taken by

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Speaker 1: Eminent Domain, and that they were living on the range

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Speaker 1: and using the same technology that they had been working

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Speaker 1: on in Germany and in Brazil and in Japan about

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Speaker 1: manless space flight, and the technology did not enable them

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Speaker 1: to do certain things you might want to say, by

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Speaker 1: remote control, So you needed someone in that vehicle who

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Speaker 1: could at most press a button or two or change

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Speaker 1: the course through some sort of joystick like feature, but

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Speaker 1: in the end that that vehicle might not be coming

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Speaker 1: down safely, if in fact there was a means to

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Speaker 1: come down safely at all, because the point was to

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Speaker 1: test something like speed, velocity, altitude, and landing was not

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Speaker 1: really a big concern for the people who were doing

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Speaker 1: the science. What did he tell you, David about the Socorol,

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Speaker 1: New Mexico case. You've brought that up a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: and that, of course was the witness was a police officer,

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Speaker 1: Lonnie Zamora, who was no longer with us. It was

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Speaker 1: that case that convinced doctor j Ellen Heineck that there

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Speaker 1: was some reality behind all of this. But what did

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Speaker 1: your dad tell you? Well, that is the actual nurse

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Speaker 1: that my dad took me to meet an interview. Wow,

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Speaker 1: she didn't speak English, she only spoke Spanish. She told

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Speaker 1: me a story where she was like literally while she's

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Speaker 1: telling me the story, crying and running a rosary through

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Speaker 1: her hands, and she's literally on the verge of breaking

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Speaker 1: down while telling me the story. That she was working

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Speaker 1: that night and she worked in Skoro at the medical

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Speaker 1: hospital there, and they brought in two bodies and her

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Speaker 1: and her friend. You know, at this time in New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: you probably had had a atmost two year degree or

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Speaker 1: possibly even just secondary education with a lot of training

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Speaker 1: to be a nurse. If you have to realize at

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Speaker 1: this time in New Mexico, which my generation goes my

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Speaker 1: family goes back cool generations by no rule in the

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Speaker 1: New Mexico, really well, at this time you could have

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Speaker 1: had like an eighth grade education but been a midwife

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Speaker 1: or been a rancher's nurse, hand or wet nurse for

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Speaker 1: a while and then ended up being a triage nurse,

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Speaker 1: which she was, and bodies were brought in and they

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Speaker 1: were smaller than what she said, normal humans bodies or

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Speaker 1: they seemed to have a type of asiatic or Asian eyelid.

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Speaker 1: They had large foreheads, they were and this is when

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Speaker 1: she started crying a little. They were breathing, and she said,

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Speaker 1: several times, they're breathing. They were breathing. You have to

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Speaker 1: realize they were breathing. And there were cuts all over them,

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Speaker 1: and there was white stuff coming out of them, but

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Speaker 1: it wasn't read and that was really shocking to her

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Speaker 1: and her coworker. And they had called for a doctor

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Speaker 1: to get to the hospital as soon as possible. And

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Speaker 1: while they were on the phone trying to get someone

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Speaker 1: there or trying to call someone to get there, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know at that time whether that meant getting

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Speaker 1: in the car to go get him or what. But

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Speaker 1: during that time, a truck pulled up with a flatbed

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Speaker 1: and two men came out in military gear and they

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Speaker 1: had in their hand bags and they unzipped the bags

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Speaker 1: and they shoved the bodies into them and then flung

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Speaker 1: them over their shoulder and then flung them harshly or

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Speaker 1: hardly onto the back of the truck and drove away,

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Speaker 1: and she was crying and halfway doing this rosary and

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Speaker 1: telling the story that she was so sad that they

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Speaker 1: were breathing. Don't we understand they were breathing. That's like

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Speaker 1: she was still really stuck on that they're probably weren't

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Speaker 1: breathing after that episode though, exactly and exactly, And you know,

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Speaker 1: here's this woman who's like when I'm talking, when I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing this story to, you know, I'm looking to it

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Speaker 1: in Lauschuss, New Mexico, that's where I met her. I'm

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Speaker 1: recording it, and I'm at the time, I think I'm

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Speaker 1: thirty two, and I'm just blown away that I'm getting

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Speaker 1: this first hand. And she's you know, telling the story

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Speaker 1: and probably trying to reconcile Catholic worldviews and Jesus and

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Speaker 1: aliens and you a military. And so I think that

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like in my Alien Seconds from Ghost Class,

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Speaker 1: when we look at all the cases of abduction around

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Speaker 1: the world, when we look at you know, Carol and Alice,

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Speaker 1: when we look at the CBB Brian book, when we

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Speaker 1: look at the testimonies from Brazil or of people who

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Speaker 1: had been taken up in Florida back in the late sixties.

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Speaker 1: These are real lives, These are these are the sort

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Speaker 1: of testimonies that would win a court case. And yet

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Speaker 1: in so many ways we just pushed them aside, like

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Speaker 1: they can't be real, and there's no way that anything

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Speaker 1: about them can it all be true? And if I

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Speaker 1: dare assert that they might be true, I won't be

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Speaker 1: listened to by anyone at SETI ever again. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern,

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Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast am dot com for

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Speaker 1: more