WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 193 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.160 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.880 Welcome to take it happen here show about things falling 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:32.839 apart and how to put them back together again. I 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:36.440 am your host, Na Wong for another It's both episode, 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.160 and what I say both, I mean we are talking 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.480 about something that we've been covering kind of some extent 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.400 in a bunch of different cities, which is a bunch 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:50.960 of hospitals incredibly cowardly decision to not provide trans youth 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.800 with gender firming care that they need out of a 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:57.960 combination of fear, greed, and malice. And with me to 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:01.080 talk about one of the places this has been happening 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:05.080 and how people have been trying to resist it, and 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.440 this in this case is the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:10.720 And so we're talking to two people who have been 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:15.840 fighting back against they're just hideous cowardice. One is Selena Binnock, 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:20.040 who is a therapist at UPMC, and then also Dena Staley, 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:23.320 who's the executive director and founder of trans Uniting. Both 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:24.600 of you two, welcome to the show. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.920 Thank you for having us, Thank you, yeah. 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.319 And thank you for doing this genuinely really critical work 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:37.319 to try to get this hospital to not severely harm 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.319 their translations. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:41.400 Yeah. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.280 Good lord, you know we'd be fighting this battle right right. 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.240 Yeah. So, Okay, I guess the place I want to 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.800 start is, can you explain sort of the exact situation 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.480 of what happened after their sort of recent Supreme Court 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:02.560 ruling and what the hospital decided to do and not do. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.320 Yeah, So, from our understanding, what's been going on with 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.040 UPMC or the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center is they've 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.120 decided to end all gender firming care. This includes puberty 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:20.839 blockers hormone therapy surgeries for people under nineteen. And this 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.440 is in response to an executive order that was put 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:27.799 out in the spring by the Trump administration saying that 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:34.280 providers who continued to prescribe these medically necessary treatments would 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.880 be at risk of felony charges and that providers who 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:42.120 supported accessing the type of care could also be in 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.359 trouble as far as getting felony charges for aiding and 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:46.280 a bedding. So that's the way that the hospital system 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.000 is interpreting this executive order. So there has been a 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.799 lot of pushback from multiple providers people throughout UPMC, and 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.240 the biggest issue is that they created a deadline line 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.160 of making these changes starting June thirtieth. This is an 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.600 arbitrary date that they decided within the hospital system. The 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.880 state was not given to them by any kind of 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:13.720 federal proceeding or legal mandate. And after that time they're 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.360 no longer going to be prescribing these medications. So, starting 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.720 in April, UPMC stopped taking any new clients who are 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.400 under nineteen who were looking for hormone replacement therapy or 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.639 any kind of gender firming care, and starting June thirtieth, 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.959 they are slowly tapering off all clients from their puberty 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.920 blockers or hormone therapy over the course of three to 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.480 six months, depending on what their current medication course is. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.360 So what is happening and the thing that I think 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.920 a lot of people aren't saying out loud, is that 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.400 they're forcing these teens and young adults to de transition 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:51.160 or to or reverse their gender transition, which the fear 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.040 is that they will start seeking non medically advised care 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.160 to obtain and get the treatment that they're seeking for. 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.480 So that is kind of our understanding it's been going 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:01.760 on behind the scenes with EPMC. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.240 Yeah, I also just want to say, like I've had 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.040 like insurance bullshit, where like I've been taken off of 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:08.760 my stuff for like a month. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.040 And a half and it sucks. It is awful. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.799 It is psychologically painful in ways that are like difficult 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:17.560 to describe. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.640 It really sucks. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.200 Right from a physical standpoint, You're going to get side effects, 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.040 you have issues, we're coming off these vacations. But from 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.320 a mental standpoint, right, it's these people who are not 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.000 your doctors are determining what your care is and it's 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:33.799 incredibly harmful. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.880 In both the physical and the mental aspect of it. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.920 Yeah, and again we're just talking about healthcare pertrans you 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:42.479 at the end of the day, and a lot of them, 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.479 well puberty bloster and just a therapy are that they're 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.599 taken away any persons over eighteen years old. 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:50.960 They're legally, you. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.960 Know, able to vote, should be able to make their 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.880 own decisions that they want to with their health care. 0:04:56.320 --> 0:05:00.200 So it's really discussing and disheartening what is happening. And 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.920 here in Pennsylvania, UPMC was the first large health provider, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.359 which is one of the largest in the state, to 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:12.120 start this domino effect of stopping care for transit. 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:15.000 Yeah, and I mean it creates this hiteous situation where 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:19.719 just like because of a combination of like some gender 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.760 bureaucrat at the White House was like, I get to 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.800 decide what your gender is now, and I get to 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.640 decide what your healthcare is because of that, and then 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.359 you have this like cascading effect of like some like 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:32.280 hospital admin was like, well, I don't know, I think 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.720 it would be easier for like me personally if you 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.240 didn't have health care. It just like it's cascading through 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:39.799 the hospital system. It's horrible. 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.280 It's horrible, And I appreciate that data makes that point 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.440 of we use this phrase gender affirming care to specify 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.640 what's going on, but it's healthcare. It's you know, not 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.920 that different from someone being forced to come off diabetes 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.359 medication or medication for our heart problem. You know, this 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.320 medication that makes people be able to function in their 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.719 life and feel safe and physically, well, that's what's being 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.240 forced out of their lives. So it is healthcare absolutely. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.920 And one into spaces that are affirming for them, you know, 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.599 as kids. You know, so now that they don't have 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.160 this affirming space have to go into spaces that are 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:17.680 not affirming, they will further damage they're ment to you know, 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.960 when are going to spaces being this gender and all 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.320 of the other things that have you know, this is 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.120 what we're talking about, just a safe, affirming place where 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.760 you can access safe for farming health here. 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.000 I think it's worth expanding on that a little bit 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.160 in the sense that like a space that's not affirming 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.080 isn't like a neutral space. It's one that's actively hostile 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:39.640 to you. 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:41.919 Absolutely that also. 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.359 Just sucks like it's hideous. 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.760 So it's just like they decided to inflict this on 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.960 a bunch of children because they're mildly afraid, right. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.280 They're afraid, and they're afraid of losing money. And there's 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.520 no way to say that it's a neutral space, right, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.480 It's you're affirming or hostile, and that's the rest great. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.200 Kids can't come the doctor and feel safe at this point, 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:03.120 and it's. 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:04.400 Like cascading issues too. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:04.720 Right. 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:06.880 We've been talking about this a lot in like the 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.880 context of someone like the Medicaid cuts, but it's like 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:11.679 anything that deters people from going to the doctor, prevents 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.640 them from going in for like other stuff that you 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.200 know could be treated pretty easily. But then suddenly if 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.920 it's like okay, well my hospitals now hostile space, people 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.840 just like stop going in all together until something really 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.800 serious happens. I could have been prevented. The hospital wasn't 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.280 paying assholes to them, like. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.240 You know, I think the fear is what we're going 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.200 to see as the side effects or the consequences of this. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:40.840 You know, we've been told by our supervisors or management 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.280 at UPMC that we should expect an influx of suicidal 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:49.200 teenagers or young adults. Teenagers were struggling with greater symptoms 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.800 of depression or even psychosis, like acute psychotic symptoms are 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.760 a studied side effect of abruptly. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:57.640 Coming off your hormone. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.680 So not only do you now have these teens inting 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.880 all who will be scared to access their care feel 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.600 like they can't use their name, their pronouns, get the 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.720 care that they need, but they're struggling with mental health 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.520 crises that are due to the changes that we're seeing 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.240 due to the withdrawal of their health care. 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:15.720 So you're seeing this in so. 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.920 Many different aspects hitting them and then the providers in 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.120 this hospital system, and I'm sure we're seeing this all 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.800 over the country. The providers are here to pick up 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.760 what's happening. That's a decision based on administrative opinions. And 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:30.320 like we said before, fear. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:32.160 So that was shure. 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.120 A hospital admin told you that that was what was 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:34.840 going to happen. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.760 So basically after this went into place, I work in 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.400 a suicide prevention clinic, so we were told by the 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.720 people that we work with to be ready and stad 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.280 start having meetings and having discussions around how to better 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.560 support these kids, knowing that through research we've found that 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.280 coming off of hormones can cause. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.400 Increased risk of suicial thought, psychosis, and depression. 0:08:58.200 --> 0:08:59.720 Sure as fuck does that. 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:02.680 Yes, And so it's like physical side effects, but also 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.200 if you're forced to detransition, you're going to be physically 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.840 unsafe in a space where you're no longer maybe passing 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:10.719 or you're no longer able to be yourself, so you're 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.280 a greater risk of harassment and bullying, which then in 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.840 turn can cause higher risks of suicidal thoughts. 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:19.400 It's just like so hideous that there's people like you 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.080 in the hospital system who can just tell them that 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:24.400 this is going to happen, and they're doing it anyways. 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.199 It's hard because it's coming down so many layers, right, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.439 So we're hearing it maybe from our direct management, whose 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.559 hearts are in the best place. They didn't make these decisions, 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.480 but where they're being told to follow upper management who 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:36.920 are making these decisions. And yes, because they work in 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.520 the hospital, they know the implications of it. But the 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.120 fear is outweighing the risks, and that's what we're trying 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:42.880 to fight against. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.800 The lightest possible response that I have to this as 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.840 I'm thinking about that Lord Farquott line from Shrek where 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.680 he goes, some of you may die, but that's a 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:51.880 sacrifice I'm willing to make. 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.240 It's like these house relignments are literally doing that. 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:56.760 They're like, yeah, no, some of these kids may die, 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.160 but like whatever, that's fine. I don't have to deal 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.000 with like maybe a lawsuit in like three years. 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.320 But they will absolutely still have to deal with lawsuits. 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:07.920 Yep, yep. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.640 At the end of the day, these are people's basic 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.520 human rights at the hundred of the times, So there 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:17.839 will be lawsuits that happened because of that. Again, what 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.040 the president did was not flaw at all, what somever. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.720 It was just directed to say, hey, this is something 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.240 that we should do. This is not nothing that he 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.120 can actually put into law. So what they're doing is 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.160 off the end of the fans are sufficient to see 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.160 what they can't get away with and what they can't 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.199 get away with. This is all about having an autonomy 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.920 of our healthcare and off all at the end of 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:43.480 the day. And they're starting with the most vulnerable population 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.400 of people, which are trends youth. 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.760 Yeah, they're just testing, right, This is a test to 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.040 see what else they can get away with. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.000 Absolutely, this is the test, and they're failing miserably. And 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.240 instead of fighting them back, you want to fight us back. 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.480 Instead of standing up and saying we're not going to 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.200 do this, because it's not going to stop transcape this 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.679 and never stop with transpit at all whatsoever. 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:06.520 It starts with transit. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.760 And DTA makes a good point I mean, I know, Mia, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.559 you aren't based out of Pennsylvania, but in Pennsylvania, gender 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.080 farming care remains legal from a state level, and the 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:18.199 city of Pittsburgh, which we are located in, has been 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.760 working really hard to protect trans youth. So the executive 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.080 order that was put in place by Trump one is 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.920 not a federal law and two is not at all 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.120 supported by state or citywide laws. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.880 So from a legal standpoint, you know. 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.600 Which we've learned from consulting with people like Dana who 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.400 have been doing this work much longer than we have. 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.960 We've talked with our local ACLU and other government organizations 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:42.840 that this would not hold up in court. So you know, 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:44.840 that's why the fight I think is starting here and 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:45.840 hoping to get bigger. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.880 Yeah, a lot of the way this administration does stuff 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.520 is just by like writing it down on paper and 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.920 then hoping that they can just sort of shock and 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:59.920 awe terror people into complying. But like, if you don't comply, 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.960 they can't make you like it's you know, I mean, 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:05.640 this is only so this is only you've seen across 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.720 issue areas, right, Like if people don't comply with ice agents, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.679 it suddenly becomes incredibly hard for them to just like 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.640 carry on massy rotations. If people don't comply with their 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.280 hospital crackdowns, it's actually really hard for them to stop 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:17.800 kids and getting gender affirming care. 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.920 But if you give up, then yeah, it's really easy. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:28.400 Right right, there's giving up before the fight really starts. Yeah, 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.800 at some level of this, this is what they want. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:31.840 They're okay with it. 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:32.559 You know. 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.240 The dogs don't really matter, Like, no, it doesn't matter 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:37.400 which way it goes. Did we really want to fight 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.000 it now? We don't want to, mister slog. Group of 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.120 people's we're not able to fight it. And if they 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.440 fight it and they win, then we'll give it back 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.640 whatever I can add. Armies of lawyers you can see, 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.320 has armies of lawyers that can really go. 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.280 And really attack this from all different angles. 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.560 Bring in community ad kids, bring together all these you 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.320 know the one that's lot project atm you all these 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.480 different folks that come in with them and really hammer 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.800 it to this administration. But they choose to not do 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.640 that and choose to be complicit in the bull crap. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.800 Yeah, one hundred percent. Okay, So we unfortunately need to 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.000 go to ads. When we come back, we will talk 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.280 about how we're going to fight back. Yeah, it'll be great. 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:37.199 We are back so remarkably quickly after this stuff all started. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.720 There's a pretty large protest, like outside of the hospital 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.640 to get them to stop doing this. Can you talk 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.960 about how this all sort of started to come together 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:48.960 and how these efforts got organized. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.920 So I started hearing rumbles about this in December and 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.360 in January. You know, once we got it into office 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.120 and things, you know, immediately he's signed DI exxective or 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.640 I think like a little bit after that, and by 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.920 April we started activating and figuring out what we wanted 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.520 to do because UPMC had made that first directive to 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.319 not accept anymore on trans youth at all, whatsoever you 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.800 think young adults, anyone under the age of nineteen. 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.040 So we did our first action in April. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.880 May start following up getting information out to disseminate their 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.840 right information out to community members, and doing all of 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.320 the behind the scenes work connecting folks to the necessary 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.240 resources that they need, so we could, you know, start 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.120 fighting back at UPMC. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:40.600 Loan behold to us. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.720 DINA and Trans Uniting have been doing a lot of 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.280 work to kind of set the stage for us to 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.680 get involved, which is really awesome. We were made aware 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.520 of what's going on with UPMC well after you know, 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:53.840 DNA and some of the community members have been so 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:55.520 I believe. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:56.880 It was earlier June, maybe end of May. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.200 Some of my really amazing coworkers and I decided, you know, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.400 we can't really just sit back and do nothing. And 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.040 I think at the clinic I work in, there was 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:06.840 a big feeling of helplessness. 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:07.840 You know, what can we do? 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.240 How do we fight back on our bosses? You know, 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.920 we were feeling stuck, and we are a suicide prevention clinic. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:17.640 We're not specifically a gender clinic, but because we know 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.760 that there's a hard proportion of trains and gay youth 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.920 who are at risk of suicide in the general population, 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.240 we work with a lot of trans youth. So we 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.400 were seeing this impact us directly in the sense of 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.320 the work that we do. So some of my coworkers 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.560 wrote a letter to UPMC explaining the way that we're 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.960 feeling about this, asking them to reverse this decision. The 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.200 letter discussed several local laws and state laws that would 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.880 protect them as well as hit them where they hurt, 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.080 as far as discussing the money that they have and 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.600 the available funds they have to fight this. The letter 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.920 was incredibly assigned by almost four hundred actually think at 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.760 this point over four hundred staff at the hospital system. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:55.000 We work it. 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:55.480 It's amazing. 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:56.240 It's amazing. 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.520 Yes, and while this letter was being drafted, some of 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.600 my coworks met with consultants through the ACLU and other 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.040 local organizations to one make sure what we were doing 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.480 was okay, that we were not jeopardizing too much of 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.800 our own safety as far as employment goes, but also 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.640 to get their opinions and start to rally organizations. So 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.360 the ACLU is to put us in touch with Dina 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.320 and Transuniting, and Dina jumped on it. In less than 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.880 two weeks, she and her coworkers had created and built 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.400 up a rally for us, which we had outside of 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.680 the UPMC building downtown just a couple of weeks ago, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.320 and we had local lawmakers speak. I spoke along with 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.960 my coworkers who helped write the letter. Dina spoke in, Dina, 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:42.400 if you want to speak more of that rally, I 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:43.200 think that'd be awesome. 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.440 Sure, I just want to say this is what aw 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.920 I shouldst like, you know, acomplases in the fight against 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.720 this you know, heinous crime, because this is exactly what 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:52.200 it is. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.880 You know, it's been attack on trans labs. 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:59.560 But we broke a lot of folks together, community members, politicians, 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.080 and workers from the UPMC all together. We had about 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.679 three hundred and some folks that showed up when we 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.639 were on the steps of UPMC's headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.800 And we also coordinated with some state wif folks that 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.600 are actually doing a couple of actions throughout this month, 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.040 but there were two actions that happened that same day 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.480 as well, and you know, what is happening is not right, 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.240 So we had to make sure that the community is 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.560 being educated and we're activating community members. At the same time, 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.960 you know, also wanted them to know about this fund 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.199 that we were launching to help the kiddos in this 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.600 situation because folks are still going to need to you know, 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.399 be able to access some type of healthcare, so you know, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.199 making sure that they are aware of their options and 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.159 making sure they're able to have funds to do so, 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.399 because you know, with everything happening, they are probably going 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.440 to get cut off of their health care insurance as well, 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.040 you know, and that is a real scare. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.680 And that happens then what meana? 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.800 So that was kind of what happened with that situation, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.479 and it was amazing, you know, everybody was amazing. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.400 But I just you know, definitely want to shout out to. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.520 Lena and the whole team because listen, we need more 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.119 accomplices like that, and it's by you know, we are 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.119 a small but mighty community, and we will not be 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.800 able to get the things done that needs to be 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.360 done to protect not just us, but all of us 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:26.680 if we're not all united. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.600 Yeah, thank you, Dan, I mean, we couldn't do it. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.800 I thought you guys and the power you've got and 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.440 the beautiful voices that you bring to the fight, it's 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:35.159 truly awesome. 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:37.919 I think one of the things that we're seeing from this, 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:40.720 and you know that we've seen from all of the 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.520 anti trans repression is that like, on the one hand, yeah, 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.760 trans people are like one and a half percent of 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:51.199 the population, and we're disproportionately like the most broke and 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.159 fucked up percentage of that population. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.920 And also we are significantly better organizers like prison for 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:01.199 person than all of the people fighting us. It's like, yeah, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.520 like they have unbelievable amounts of resources, however, Comma, we 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.440 are really good at like this specific. 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:09.760 Thing of organizing and fighting back. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.560 And yeah, well sadly, like trans people have had to 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:16.360 fight for so long learned to do it, and their 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.119 loved ones man, like they were there when we were 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.720 at the rally a couple of weeks ago, I had 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.400 parents of trans kids hugging me, you know, like they 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.200 show up and they fight for their people, and it's 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:26.240 really empowering. 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.439 We don't have that cholice fun to do that, you know, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.280 we don't have that cholices about the show. We don't 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.520 have that cholice about to fight because we had to 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:36.800 all of our lives in order to you know, continue 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:38.840 to walk in our true you know. 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:41.479 Yeah, And like I mean, you know, I could talk 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.520 about sort of the structural factors that make that true, 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.720 but there's also just if you're going to be trends, 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.560 at some point you have to choose to accept it, 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.040 and like the fact that it's an identity that like 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.400 you have to make a choice to be like I'm 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.800 gonna fucking do this and like, Okay, I am this 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.200 person that I've always known that I am, etcetera, et cetera. 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.000 I think they're also just like it selects for like 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.040 a small extent for people who are willing to just 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:11.480 like fuck it, let's go. And I don't know, that's 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.040 been the thing I've always like appreciated about the way 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:30.080 that like these kind of organizing efforts unfold areria. Okay, 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.080 so let's talk about what the reaction has been to 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.480 the protest, to the actions, both from the hospital and 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:37.760 from the community at large. 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.080 Looking at both of those things, I guess one of 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.679 the coolest reactions we're seeing is a lot of people 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.080 coming out in solidarity who work at the hospital system, 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.000 So the people who originally wrote the letter, who were 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:53.920 part of this rally. We are trying to organize more 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:58.080 community meetings, more town halls, contacting people through email, and 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.000 Dina has been very involved in that along with side 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.680 other local organizations. But the word is spreading and we're 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:05.840 getting in touch with a lot of people in a 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.400 lot of different departments throughout. 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.239 The hospital who are here and want to show up. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:11.240 You know, we're seeing. 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.480 Physicians, social workers UPMC is also, of course a massive 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.119 insurance conglomerate, and we're seeing people who work in the 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.879 insurance side of things come out to support this so 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.640 that's been really amazing as far as what things are 0:21:24.680 --> 0:21:29.879 looking like. As administration feedback, we are being told the 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.480 same response repeatedly that UPMC is doing what they have 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.919 to do to quote unquote abide with the law, and 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.720 they're making the decisions that they are making because of 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.280 the quote unquote law, and they will continue to offer 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.480 behavioral health support to trans youth and young adults to 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.280 support them through this crisis. So, you know, we are 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:52.879 trying to meet together and talk a lot about what 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:53.560 that means. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.119 Of course, there is some fear of will that be 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:56.840 stripped away. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.800 You know, we actually saw not that long ago, I 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:03.000 think was only last week that you know, Ohio they 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.639 built into their state budget that Medicaid can no longer 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:07.840 cover quote unquote transffirming therapy. 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:09.400 So this isn't. 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.520 Even puberty blockers, it's not hormones, it's talk therapy. 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:13.800 And what will that mean? 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:16.280 You know, we hope that we're protected here in Pennsylvania, 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.320 but there's always resks that this can come into place 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.240 at a federal level. So these talking points that they're 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.120 sticking to, it's not too black and white as they're 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.760 presenting it. You know, they're not abiding with any certain law. 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.440 We don't know that therapy is protected, but that's what's 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:30.439 kind of they're sticking to. 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.440 And that's just what's repeatedly being. 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.240 Stated throughout various press contacts that are being made through 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:36.840 the hospital. 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:39.879 They're doing whatever the fuck they want to do. 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:43.639 Yeah, to put it lightly, yes, yeah, this. 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:46.919 Is what's happening, and we just have to continue to 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.439 fight because they want to take us back to the 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.399 nineteen fifties and that's not going to happen. 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:53.800 That's not going to happen. 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:58.359 And alsoever, it's Saint nineteen fifty, this is twenty twenty five, 0:22:58.440 --> 0:22:59.040 and you can. 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.240 Take away all you want to. We're going to fight 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:03.560 and we're going to put it back at place. 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:06.080 A lot of times it is so much harder to 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.760 take things away and try to get them back. But 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:13.080 you know, unfortunately we're here and a lot of Americans 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:17.080 didn't think that we would be in this predicament and 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.679 it's not going to get nothing but worse. So hopefully 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:22.919 it opens up people's eyes and we have to unite 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:23.440 as a people. 0:23:23.480 --> 0:23:24.719 That's it. That's it. 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.240 That's all around all of these issues. There's so much happening, 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:31.000 so much being thrown on us at one time. But 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:36.320 we have to unite as minority people or we will 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:40.520 be in a place like nineteen fifties, because I mean 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:42.040 we're abought to be in a great depression. 0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:45.080 By January, we will be in a great depression. Everybody, 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.000 get ready? Hope you got your CAG good? 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.520 Yeah? 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.560 Well, And I think there's there's another element of this too, 0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.880 which is like you can look at them doing a like, oh, 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:57.440 we're just following orders thing, but there's no actual orders, 0:23:57.440 --> 0:23:59.680 which makes it even more pathetic than like the original 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.440 words just following orders people, which again, and I want 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.679 to note this, just following orders did not prevent you 0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.080 from being tried at Nuremberg, Like that was found to 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.080 not be a defense, so like right, remembering of where 0:24:13.080 --> 0:24:14.680 that went down. His shit. But the second thing too, 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:16.720 is like in terms of like there being so many 0:24:16.720 --> 0:24:18.600 different things where like everyone needs to sort of pull 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.720 together and fight this the other advantage that we have 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.439 that's different from like thirties Nazi Germany, right, like this 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.359 stuff is all really unpopular, Like everyone hates it, Everyone 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:31.760 hates Trump is approve of ratings are terrible, the proof 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:33.800 ratings for everything he's doing across the bord are just 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:34.439 really bad. 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:39.840 The thing about the Nazis was that, like Nazi Germany, 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:41.480 people wanted. 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:42.600 They were imutified. 0:24:43.280 --> 0:24:44.880 Yeah, like at least to something extent. They were able 0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:46.320 to smash, like, you know, they were able to sort 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:48.199 of wipe out everyone who was opposing them, but like 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.840 significant portions of the population wanted all of that shit 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:53.280 to happen. And then it's just not true here, right, 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:55.520 And you know, our job is to make sure that 0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:57.359 like the fact that nobody wants the shit to happen 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:01.400 actually turns into it not happening instead of just you know, 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:06.840 this unhinged autocratic like you're king is like writing decrees 0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:09.320 on a piece of paper and suddenly hospitals are following 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:11.000 them even though there's just nothing else. 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.720 Nothing, nothing, bugle crap. But again, we just have to 0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:19.639 band together. I think folks still in a sense they're 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:23.000 in that mind frame of twenty twenty four. It's like 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.520 this is not twenty twenty four at all whatsoever. And 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:30.199 if you don't get with it, I don't know. Yeah, 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:32.280 but we're going to continue to fight. That's not going 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:34.920 to stop. We're going to continue to you know, make 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:40.440 waves and activate educate people about their rights, and you know, 0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:45.320 create spaces or transit to be and be safe as 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:47.600 much as possible and do it all. 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:50.000 But as much as we can do, we will do. 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:51.080 Yeah. 0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:54.440 And I think that also raises a question for people 0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.479 listening to the show, which is that what can people 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:01.840 do to put pressure on this hospital or their local 0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:05.280 hospital to do this and how can people sort of 0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:10.800 help the effort to get UPMC to fucking give kids 0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:11.639 their health care? 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:16.040 Absolutely, So what they can do is they can go 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.960 visit trends upg dot org. They can sign a petition 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:23.639 that we have up, you can donate to the fund 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:28.480 that we have gone currently. Locally, what they can do is, 0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:33.520 you know, work with their borough or city councils to 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:38.480 create legislation to protect trans kids and use young adults 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:41.359 and on state wild levels as well. But what we 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.440 have to do is we have to put pressure from 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.159 the top and from the bottom, you know, on the 0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:51.400 government to you know, the state governments to make these 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:53.320 changes because again there are no. 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:54.960 Laws in place at all whatsoever. 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.359 So now we have to take that and we have 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:04.240 to make laws in each state protect not just trans 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:07.480 you think of adults, blood trans individuals and any minority 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:11.840 groups that are being attacked by this Orange Man's regime. 0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:15.960 Yeah, it's a lot of railing together and I think 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:20.680 what we've seen here is amazingly we were all able 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.600 to come together as a community and fight, and I 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.520 think reaching out to your local organizations. I mean, if 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.199 every city had a Dina Stanley, they would be in 0:27:29.240 --> 0:27:32.720 a much better position to fight this fight. But you know, 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:36.080 working together with the people who know how to organize 0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.159 and fight, but also not be afraid to get your 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:41.000 feet wet in that act of organizing. You know, we 0:27:41.200 --> 0:27:44.320 have been working with Action Network to open up letter 0:27:44.320 --> 0:27:46.399 writing to our community so that you don't have to 0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:49.480 be a UPMC staff to let UPMC know how you're feeling. 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:53.320 We're trying to host more town halls and community meetings. 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:57.040 We hit Instagram. We have an account Club Providers for 0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.360 Trans Justice, where we're trying to get the work out 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.040 so we can rally more together. I think in big pieces, 0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:07.240 if you're able to contribute financially, Transuniting has their Youth 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:09.880 Healing Fund. I believe Tina, that's what it's called, where 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:14.600 people can financially support trans youth who are having trouble 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:18.280 accessing their care, and especially knowing what we know what's 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:21.520 going to happen with Medicaid, this is even more important. So, 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:24.199 I mean, if you want to support us in our 0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:25.680 fight against UPMC. 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:27.479 I think it's be loud. It's not stop. 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.000 I believe that hospital is just waiting for everybody to 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.200 quiet down. But we're only going to get louder because 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:35.879 these taper plans just started for the youth, teens and 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.360 young adults. They're still on their medications, and the further 0:28:39.400 --> 0:28:41.120 way that gets, the louder we're going to be because the 0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.480 risk is really going to increase as the months go on. 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:51.720 Absolutely, so don't stop. Be loud all the time. The 0:28:51.840 --> 0:28:56.320 accomplices in this fite because no matter what, and know 0:28:56.440 --> 0:29:00.080 that your next, so you can either join in, you 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:02.960 can wait for your turn, and by that time maybe 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:05.320 too late and there won't be no one to be 0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:06.680 able to stand up the light. 0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:08.920 Yeah. And I thing I've been saying on the show 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:11.920 a lot is it's not even just that after they 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:13.400 come for us, they're going to come for you. It's 0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:16.400 that in order to come for us, they are going 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:19.560 through you first. Like that's what this whole administration has been. 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:22.120 They are willing to destroy the entire global economy. They're 0:29:22.160 --> 0:29:24.120 willing to turn the US into a police state. They 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:27.720 are willing to again just grab people off the street 0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:30.320 in order to destroy very very small groups of people. 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:32.280 They are willing to a miserate the lives of every 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:35.800 single person in this country. And the good news is 0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:38.600 that means that because we're all targets, we all have 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.640 the capacity to resist together and to beat them, and 0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:42.760 we're going to. 0:29:43.200 --> 0:29:45.840 It's just that people have to understand that. You know 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:49.680 that we are targets, and I understand what is actually happening. Right, 0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:53.280 These are tacked on trans folks. It's not about trans individuals. 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:56.880 It's about autonomy of a women's body. The tacks over immigrants, 0:29:57.240 --> 0:30:00.400 it's not about the immigrants. It's about citizens ships for 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:02.959 black and brown people that have it, you know what 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:05.560 I mean. So this is again, it's just about having 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:09.640 control over folks period. And as soon as people understand 0:30:09.680 --> 0:30:12.560 that and know that, you will, you know, be a 0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:15.440 slave of this country and in a way that you've 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:18.719 never been, because we all are but a slave of 0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:22.080 this country like you've never been before. You better get 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.760 with it and open your eyes up and stand up 0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:28.280 and fight back, or you will be in a situation 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:31.240 that you would just be sitting there thinking like I 0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:32.080 should have could. 0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:33.880 Have what you did? 0:30:34.200 --> 0:30:37.240 The stand up now, the fight we're having with UPNC, 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:40.600 I mean, of course it's important. It's this is my employer, 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.080 this is where I live. But it is just a 0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.480 small fight in the broader scheme of the fights we have. 0:30:44.640 --> 0:30:46.920 And you know, this brings up a good point of 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.400 we fight for trans use because of what might come next, 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:52.320 but it's already coming. 0:30:52.440 --> 0:30:52.600 Right. 0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:54.920 We have a lot of people of color who are 0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:56.840 already schedule leave the country because they don't know if 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.000 they'll be allowed back in with their passports. 0:30:59.000 --> 0:30:59.320 At US. 0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:01.760 We have you know, women who are no longer able 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:05.120 to access abortion care or reproductive care in many places 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.360 in this country. I mean, it's not if it's going 0:31:07.400 --> 0:31:10.280 to happen, it's when, and it already is. So the 0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:12.360 more we fight in the louder we can be for 0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:15.760 the people who are hit the most, the more likely 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:17.960 that this fight will drag on and hit them, so 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:19.960 less fights can start in the future. 0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:22.280 But it's happening. We're seeing it everywhere. 0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.240 Yeah, I think that's an amazing place to end. Thank 0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:28.240 you to both so much for coming on and for 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:29.080 fighting this fight. 0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:32.640 Absolutely, thank you for having us. 0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:35.320 I think it's really awesome to get the platform to 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:38.840 show what we're doing and hope people, hopefully people will 0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:41.240 feel less scared. Right, there's power in numbers, There's power 0:31:41.320 --> 0:31:44.240 and solidarity. The more people we have fighting along us, 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:45.840 the easier it gets to fight. 0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:48.840 The power is the people, and we are the people. 0:31:49.040 --> 0:31:51.040 I am incredibly looking forward to talking to you, to 0:31:51.080 --> 0:31:52.440 you again, will be fucking win this. 0:31:52.920 --> 0:31:54.240 So I love everybody. 0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:56.640 That's gonna be great. 0:31:58.800 --> 0:32:16.520 Champagne over the microphone. 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:25.160 Oh this is it could happen here A show about 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:26.120 things falling apart. 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:27.240 I'm Garrison Davis. 0:32:27.800 --> 0:32:31.240 Today we're talking about movies, one of my favorite topics 0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:32.880 that I never get to talk about on the show. 0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.120 But I'm able to talk about it this week because 0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.760 I've found a way to talk about how movies are 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:41.280 covering the death of woke and to help me in 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:45.800 this doomed endeavor, I have recruited artists and designer Bailey 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.240 new poster Welcome. 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.040 Hi, It's lovely to be here. 0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:54.160 Bailey also is behind the new Top Cup City show 0:32:54.240 --> 0:32:57.480 Art which will eventually go public, maybe in a few 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.320 weeks whenever I finally finished that episode, so keep pounding 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:05.120 me about it. So we're going to talk about two 0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:09.200 films that came out this past July, Superman and Eddington, 0:33:10.080 --> 0:33:13.960 which I think are actually very closely related despite being 0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:17.600 very different from each other. I believe they're kind of 0:33:17.640 --> 0:33:21.480 equal and opposite films. And I realized this after I 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:25.720 saw Eddington at a theater in Brooklyn and walked outside 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.760 to the posters for Superman and editing being right next 0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:30.880 to each other, which are very different, and then I 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.440 realized this is actually kind of the same movie but 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:39.640 doing like or they're very related films. Right now, I 0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:41.600 think they really are like the equal and opposite of 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:45.960 each other. Both are like uber contemporary, They're very online. 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:46.560 They have a. 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:50.000 Sort of like gestural politics, and I think they're both 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:56.160 reactions to a conflicting view of American decline. Both have 0:33:56.320 --> 0:34:00.600 surprised Tucker Carlson appearances, and both have failed cancer relations. 0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:05.280 There's a lot of overlap in some of the plot 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.240 points of this film, and I think what they're actually 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:12.440 kind of saying about current American culture, current American politics, 0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:15.279 and how it relates to social media. I think we 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:19.480 should first talk about Superman to get over that, so 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.800 we can I discuss Eddington because I need to discuss 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:25.759 Eddington in relation to Superman in some ways. So I 0:34:25.800 --> 0:34:28.480 guess people have been enjoying this film. I think a 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:33.160 big part of why is how the film tackles geopolitics. 0:34:33.160 --> 0:34:37.160 Oddly enough, the geopolitical conflict in the film was most 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.040 likely based on what it was written trying to pull from, 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.359 like Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But because the film took 0:34:44.400 --> 0:34:46.920 a long time to write, by the time they shot 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:50.560 the film, there was a whole other geopolitical conflict happening, 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.360 which influenced at the very least the visual language of 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:55.920 the film, which which pulls from Israel and Palestine. 0:34:56.800 --> 0:35:00.320 It's nice to see it like represented, I guess on 0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:02.520 on a blockbuster film, like that's what it feels like. 0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:04.439 It felt like nice to see it. 0:35:04.520 --> 0:35:09.000 You know, it's like an acknowledgment of the atrocities happening. Yes, 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:12.920 Like essentially a Benjamin net and Yaho stand in is 0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:17.359 basically like the secondary villain of the film. And at 0:35:17.360 --> 0:35:19.640 this point, I guess we'll just have to talk about 0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:22.920 hashtag spoilers. If you haven't seen these and you want to, 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:25.560 you can. You can go see them. If you're okay 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:27.239 with hearing us talk about it, and that might make 0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:29.279 you want to see them more, then feel free. I 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:32.279 don't think spoilers actually ruin a movie, but yeah, like 0:35:32.520 --> 0:35:35.720 Net and Yaho dying in the film gets like a massive, 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:38.440 a massive crowd reaction at least when I saw it 0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.719 opening night, and people definitely feel a degree of like 0:35:41.800 --> 0:35:46.080 catharsists like watching you know, superheroes stop the IDF from 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:49.480 massacring you know, civilians who are you were like, you know, 0:35:49.520 --> 0:35:51.719 like like Arab civilians, Like it's it's it's at that 0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:54.919 point they transcend like the Russia Ukraine aspect, and it's 0:35:54.920 --> 0:35:57.680 like very very clear what they're visually pulling from. 0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:02.680 Yeah, I think the falafel car guy is the one. Yeah, 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:03.920 that's crazy. 0:36:04.239 --> 0:36:07.839 Les Luthor executes a falafel card owner. And I'll talk 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:11.920 about more about how the film like riffs on Palestine 0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:14.440 in a bed. There's other aspects I think of how 0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:17.719 Superman is reacting to what James Gunn sees as like 0:36:17.760 --> 0:36:21.719 American decline, because I think Superman as a film is 0:36:21.840 --> 0:36:25.160 kind of a partially vapid take on like the corruption 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:28.840 of sincere positive futures and like the loss of hope. 0:36:28.920 --> 0:36:32.400 It honestly feels very like Biden twenty twenty. It's like 0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:36.000 a battle for the soul of America type thing. And 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:39.920 I also see this as like a reaction to the 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:43.680 victory of toxic masculinity, especially among like the twitch streamer 0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:47.360 class and like manfluencers like Andrew Tait, and instead you 0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.840 have Superman as this like Goodie two shoes boy Scout 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:52.719 the way he like he should be. And this is 0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:54.480 the aspect of the film I think works. The best is, 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:58.160 honestly is their characterization of Superman. The cast is phenomenal. 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:01.399 David Kornsweat does a really good job. And I do 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:03.759 like this version of masculinity. It's it's it's it's still 0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:06.759 funny to see like post online of people being like, Wow, 0:37:06.760 --> 0:37:09.200 I'm actually gonna try, you know, being nice to my 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:12.480 neighbors now that I saw Superman, Like what the fuck? 0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:15.319 I want to pick up my girlfriend today and be 0:37:16.080 --> 0:37:17.319 happy when I'm around her. 0:37:18.920 --> 0:37:21.319 Yeah, So that feels a little odd, but like, I 0:37:21.360 --> 0:37:24.520 guess it's good that people can feel like Superman when 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:27.000 they're doing good things, helping an old lady cross the 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:30.080 street or whatever. I think that aspect of like decline. 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:34.000 I sympathize with this, this like loss of like positive masculinity, 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:36.080 and I think a Superman can be as simple for 0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.600 that for for new people who are addicted to watching 0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:42.239 like sneak O or whatever. Yeah, I think that's probably good. 0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:45.600 And in some ways, I think this film, honestly, like 0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:48.440 the exact same film would have been received a lot 0:37:48.480 --> 0:37:51.799 worse if Kamala Harris was president. I think that the 0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:56.440 fact that everyone feels so hopeless, like depress, hopeless and 0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:58.719 defeated because of Trump, I think this actually contributes to 0:37:58.719 --> 0:38:01.759 the positive reception the film is take. And myself and 0:38:01.760 --> 0:38:03.920 a few other people kind of even predicted this, like 0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:06.800 back in November, trying to like forecast like the reception 0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:09.279 of Superman and like Fantastic Four, and like all these 0:38:09.280 --> 0:38:11.799 companies were trying to like save the superhero genre from 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:15.200 like eating itself right now. Yeah, but for me at least, 0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:19.319 there is a more insidious aspect of Superman that I 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:22.840 do not see being discussed as much beyond you know, 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:27.360 James Gunn still still obviously upset that he got canceled 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:30.719 and is making that a core plot point in this 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:33.480 film is he's actually super bad and he shouldn't have 0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:34.200 been canceled. 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:38.480 He shouldn't be canceled, and the people canceling him were 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:40.440 monkeys at typewriters. 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:44.640 And which way, honestly that that part is true. Yeah, 0:38:44.680 --> 0:38:48.399 people try to cancel James Gun were monkeys and gone typewriters. 0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:50.160 I thought that bit was great. 0:38:50.280 --> 0:38:52.360 I thought that bit was very I was like, that's 0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:55.400 very like one panel gag in a comic, which is, 0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:56.480 you know, wonderful. 0:38:56.760 --> 0:38:59.160 Very The movie felt very great. 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:02.000 Morrison, Totally, those are the aspects that I really like. 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:03.120 Yeah, totally. 0:39:03.320 --> 0:39:06.399 Staying on the political subject, I think you could draw 0:39:07.000 --> 0:39:10.279 a very good analogy between this and or Not. 0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:15.000 Just this feels like this year's Barbie, if that makes sense. 0:39:15.160 --> 0:39:18.720 Sure, like the kind of like corporate political not girls 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:20.719 get it done this time. Obviously, this is like more 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:24.440 of like anti not even anti toxic masculinity. I think 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:27.520 it's just pro this form of masculinity, which I think 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:30.440 is more productive. Yeah, but I also think, yeah, there's 0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:34.200 like neolib stuff going on. And also the fact that 0:39:34.239 --> 0:39:37.880 the movie, because it's a blockbuster can't properly handle anything 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.120 like it kind of has to just leave everything at 0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:40.479 the road. 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:42.239 Yeah, on the side of the road by the end 0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:43.400 of it. Yeah, I don't know. 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:47.640 This is very much similar to Barbie, in which I 0:39:47.719 --> 0:39:49.520 kind of had the same reaction to. It's like they're 0:39:49.560 --> 0:39:53.480 like o K movies, But I find the political posturing 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:57.479 actually slightly insulting in a certain way based on how 0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:01.120 shallow it is. And I'm gonna I'm going to actually 0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:03.760 get into that more on Superman here, I've seen people 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:06.360 talking about how like emotional they got during the scenes, 0:40:06.400 --> 0:40:09.120 like very evocative of the palestinding a genocide, like the 0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:12.680 people like, you know, crying and tearing up and feeling 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:16.680 so seen. And again, on one hand, that's good, but 0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:20.920 that also gives me a bit of an icky feeling. 0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:25.680 And someone else expressed this very well, the co host 0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:31.720 of the Hit Factory podcast at Deep Impact Crier on tweeter. 0:40:32.440 --> 0:40:34.840 She's the host of the podcast Hit Factory. Wich was 0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:37.560 about nineties to cinema. I think her name is Carly, 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:41.920 and she expressed this kind of soft disgust that was 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:44.279 growing in me. But both kind of during some of 0:40:44.320 --> 0:40:47.640 these scenes and frankly watching people's reaction to it, She said, 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:51.279 quote that's the point, isn't it, To immerse you in 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.440 a fantasy where civilian life matters, to distract you from 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:57.480 the reality where civilian life does not matter, To offer 0:40:57.520 --> 0:41:01.360 you abstractions of already abstracted images of imperial violence so 0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.799 that you can experience catharsis, escape and absolution. A movie 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:07.400 like Superman exists to take the literal spectacle of genocide 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.760 filling our feed for two years, and further mediate, slash, 0:41:10.800 --> 0:41:13.880 abstract the spectacle so it can be transposed onto another 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:18.960 product of empire and strategic interpassivity to keep us ideologically 0:41:19.000 --> 0:41:23.839 and emotionally confined to its order. Any empathetic impulse engendered 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:27.280 by forms and aesthetics of imperial violence and memetic rhythms 0:41:27.280 --> 0:41:29.920 of technology it trades in confines us to the limits 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:31.240 of the language of empire. 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:32.040 It keeps us. 0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:36.160 Operating on its terms. We need cinema that ruptures familiar 0:41:36.200 --> 0:41:40.719 imperial forms and its rhythms. So movies like Superman and 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:44.319 the way that they depict atrocities actually like make us 0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:48.400 more indebted to the imperial system, because the imperial system 0:41:48.400 --> 0:41:50.640 can give us a product to make us feel Catharsis 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:54.239 about the violence that the empire actually does, and that 0:41:54.239 --> 0:41:58.040 Catharsis keeps us going, like that's what allows us to 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:01.759 not like fucking destroy everything around us, because we get 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.000 enough of that Catharsis that it makes us able to 0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:07.120 keep living. And that's in the end, what products like 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.920 Superman are kind of doing. They're making us feel just 0:42:10.040 --> 0:42:13.520 good enough by expressing the displeasure we have at what 0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:17.400 our government is doing, but still making us like fully 0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:21.280 married to the existence of that empire, like we can't 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.080 live without it because of the comfort it provides us, 0:42:24.120 --> 0:42:28.880 including this cathartic comfort watching fucking Guy Gardner stop the 0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:33.440 Palestindian genocide, which if you told me that sentence like 0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:36.440 five years ago, I would have not believed you. I 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:38.640 would have not believed that a cinematic depiction of Guy 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:42.759 Gardner is going to stop the Palestinian genocide, that that 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:46.160 Hawk girl is gonna is gonna kill Netanyahu. I would 0:42:46.160 --> 0:42:48.799 have not believed you for a single second. And that 0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:51.040 kind of shows the level of absurdity that we're kind 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:53.000 of dealing with, and that aspect, I think is what 0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:56.799 makes what Superman is doing actually far more insidious than 0:42:56.840 --> 0:43:00.520 any of the controversial politics in something like Eddington. 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:04.279 I also think that the whole like indended to empire thing. 0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:07.440 I think this is like the case in point example 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:12.640 of that considering Superman is literally a symbol of American values. 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.279 Or certainly has like become that, and like, yeah, you know, 0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:17.600 had a more positive version of that in some ways 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:20.360 during his like birth in World War Two as a 0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:23.080 way as like a symbol of like Nazi resistance, but 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:25.480 now is you know, very much turned into like truth 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:27.640 justice in the American way, to the point where a 0:43:27.640 --> 0:43:29.719 lot of his you know, like immigrant aspects have been 0:43:29.880 --> 0:43:32.680 have been kind of undercut in the in the past, 0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:33.600 in the past few years. 0:43:33.800 --> 0:43:36.520 Yeah, I saw an article I didn't actually end up 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:38.319 fully reading because it was on the I forgot what 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:40.600 it was then the Washington Post or maybe it was 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:42.440 the New York Times where it was it was like 0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:43.200 blocked or. 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:44.960 Something, one of the big two. Yeah. 0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:47.880 Yeah, it was an author who I think was an immigrant, 0:43:48.000 --> 0:43:51.799 and it was like talking about how Superman undercuts the 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:56.080 the immigrant experience and that he is like literally born 0:43:56.200 --> 0:43:58.680 on the planet anyway, so it's not really like an 0:43:59.000 --> 0:44:01.279 it's not necessarily and he doesn't go through any like 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:03.120 cultural conflict. 0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:05.400 I guess, you know, totally. 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.000 I also wondered about, well, you know, I g I 0:44:09.000 --> 0:44:09.640 guess it doesn't. 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:10.320 I guess it doesn't. 0:44:10.680 --> 0:44:13.760 I was gonna I was gonna think about the taking 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:17.080 the immigrant aspect and then talking about one of the 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:20.759 main parts of the movie, which was his parents are 0:44:20.800 --> 0:44:22.680 like you need to go and make a harem on 0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:25.520 Earth or whatever, is sort of interesting. 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:30.239 Yes, the aspect that his immigrant background has been very 0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:32.759 corrupted in this film, Like there's like a certainly like 0:44:32.920 --> 0:44:35.280 foreign evilness associating with Superman. 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:38.480 Now, yeah, you're an immigrant, and like that's good, and 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:41.920 that's great and very American, but you shouldn't be what 0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:45.680 your parents were, your like foreign parents because they wanted 0:44:45.680 --> 0:44:49.320 a harem of lovers and to like conquer the West 0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:53.000 or whatever. Yeah, which, you know, considering the fact that 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:55.920 this was written during the Russia Ukraine thing and not 0:44:56.320 --> 0:45:00.480 mainly during the Israel Palestine thing, I don't know if 0:45:00.480 --> 0:45:02.880 that's like because that's in the movie. 0:45:02.920 --> 0:45:04.279 I have to think about it, you know. 0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:06.880 Yeah, I don't think James Gunn was conceptualizing of that 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:08.080 when he wrote it. 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:11.880 I think it's an unfortunate product of what happened aesthetically, 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:14.080 but it's not that big of a deal, but it 0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:16.160 is weird, like it's something to think about. 0:45:16.400 --> 0:45:17.960 That effect did not bother me as much as it 0:45:17.960 --> 0:45:20.799 did like for some other people. For my overall thoughts 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:22.640 in the film, I think it's basically as good as 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:24.799 every other James Gun film, which frankly just is not 0:45:24.880 --> 0:45:27.080 my cup of tea. I've never really loved the Guardians films. 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:29.560 I don't think James Gun's a very compelling filmmaker. I 0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:32.160 thought it was just fine. It definitely felt like episode 0:45:32.200 --> 0:45:35.040 thirteen of a TV show that doesn't exist, which as 0:45:35.080 --> 0:45:39.359 a comic book appreciator I like. As a film appreciator 0:45:39.400 --> 0:45:43.319 I don't like, But certainly the more campy aspects I 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:45.839 enjoyed a lot. I think now is time to go 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.719 on a quick break, and then we will return to 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:55.160 discuss the anti woke cinematic masterpiece of the twenty twenties Eddington. 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:08.480 All right, we're back, So I. 0:46:08.400 --> 0:46:10.959 Would like to now talk about Eddington for the rest 0:46:11.000 --> 0:46:15.000 of the episode. Essentially, But like I said before, Eddington 0:46:15.080 --> 0:46:18.120 is the equal and opposite of Superman. Both are both 0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:22.040 are very contemporary, very online. Both their politics, gesture and 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.680 I think they're they're reactionary, but they're specifically reactionary in 0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:27.960 very different ways. I think they're they're reacting to two 0:46:28.080 --> 0:46:32.120 very different types of decline in America, or like perceived 0:46:32.160 --> 0:46:36.680 decline in America. So Eddington is directed by Ariastor, who 0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:41.520 made Hereditary, Midsummer and Both Afraid. I'll talk more about 0:46:41.560 --> 0:46:43.840 my thoughts on ari Astor at the end in a 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:47.960 conversation with Jennie Danger. But I think Eddington is not 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:52.680 anti woke. Actually I was lying. I think Anything is 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:57.480 a post woke expression of kind of scared nihilism, or 0:46:57.520 --> 0:47:00.400 like like a depiction of the nihilism inherent to American 0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:04.359 politics right now, like everything as a conspiracy theory, there's 0:47:04.520 --> 0:47:09.960 this specter of cancelation around the corner, and like speaking specters, 0:47:10.000 --> 0:47:13.200 I think so so much of both Superman and Eddington 0:47:13.280 --> 0:47:16.520 for me, is like there's this specter of wokeism that's 0:47:16.600 --> 0:47:19.960 haunting America, and both films are trying to deal with 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:23.840 that specter. I think Superman partially mourns that wokeness, and 0:47:24.400 --> 0:47:27.640 Eddington deals with its more like actual and like haunting 0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:30.279 and like in like a ghostly quality. Some of its 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:34.280 more like uncanny qualities. Sometimes more than anything, Eddington digs 0:47:34.320 --> 0:47:37.880 into how we have created a profoundly anti social culture, 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:41.600 which even leftists contribute to and in some cases actually 0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:45.960 conceptualize that as a form of like based process, and 0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:48.680 how we've all become just reflections of our Internet feeds 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:52.560 and used politics as a justification for personal cruelty, or 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:55.160 the very least, used politics as an outlet to channel 0:47:55.160 --> 0:47:58.080 anti social behavior in a way that you can self 0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:00.399 perceive as being morally good. And I think the left 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:02.279 and the right do this obviously, Like the right does 0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:05.279 this with their like pedophile crusader shit. Never mind the 0:48:05.280 --> 0:48:08.000 whole Epstein thing, just just ignore that, ignore all of 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:10.160 the actual right wing pedophiles. 0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:12.799 But well, it's entirely about aesthetics. 0:48:12.840 --> 0:48:16.360 It's about absolutely yeah, who looks like a pedophile to me? 0:48:16.560 --> 0:48:18.400 And it's the gay person. 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:21.880 Ascetisize politics rights, which is huge on I think political 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:26.520 extremism in general, politics start developing more aestheticized forms. You know, 0:48:26.680 --> 0:48:29.600 this is true among anarchists, and I think fascism more 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:32.920 more purely, I think is actually like politics asceticize to 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:35.520 the point we're aesthetisizing, you know, like like people and 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:38.440 like culture and like race, right, Like that is a 0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:41.800 whole a way different version than you know, like crust 0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:45.120 punks or like yeah, like like you know black Bloc. 0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:47.840 Did you see the uh? I don't remember what the 0:48:47.840 --> 0:48:50.839 account was. There was like something of defense tweeted like 0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.799 some AI like from one of those like mill military 0:48:54.960 --> 0:48:57.719 fiction like accounts or something. And it was like a 0:48:57.760 --> 0:49:00.400 picture of like a white dude holding like a fucked 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:02.759 up looking m for because it was AI generated and 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:04.200 he's got like a bald eagle. 0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:04.479 On his head. 0:49:05.239 --> 0:49:06.720 No, but that sounds great. 0:49:07.080 --> 0:49:08.240 It got tweeted today. 0:49:08.360 --> 0:49:11.239 It's like the fucking lamest thing I've ever seen, and 0:49:11.320 --> 0:49:14.359 like I just don't even know, like not only the 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:17.640 fact that he's like obviously he's using a photo of 0:49:17.719 --> 0:49:21.320 somebody else, but it's not even a real picture of anybody. 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:24.200 It's like a fake image of somebody that somebody. 0:49:23.800 --> 0:49:26.520 Else made, like that he got off of like one 0:49:26.560 --> 0:49:29.280 of those like gun larp aesthetic accounts. 0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:31.880 I just found that very interesting. 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:35.840 I don't know, Bailey, what did you think of Eddington? 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:38.359 I adored it. I loved it. 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.560 The moment that I knew that I was going to 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:44.880 enjoy it was probably where it's revealed the energy plant 0:49:44.960 --> 0:49:48.319 is called perfect Gold, Magic carp or whatever, which is 0:49:48.440 --> 0:49:52.120 like so funny, like all those AI guys making all 0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:55.760 their products, like they're calling it Sourn's Eye or whatever. 0:49:56.160 --> 0:49:57.959 Yeah, yeah, yeah, so good. 0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:01.560 But I adored it. I think I think that Waking 0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:04.480 Phoenix is wonderful in it. He's a great actor. I 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:07.120 think Ari Astor is like one of the few directors 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:11.040 that can perfectly slot him into this like just neurotic, 0:50:11.360 --> 0:50:13.680 impotent man role, you. 0:50:13.600 --> 0:50:14.719 Know, very impotent. Ye. 0:50:14.960 --> 0:50:15.240 Yes. 0:50:16.000 --> 0:50:19.040 So the scene that I really like that I think 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:21.360 about probably the most, or the character I think of 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.640 probably the most, is the homeless guy. Yeah, the homeless 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:28.640 guy who wanders into the film and is the you know, 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:31.759 he's this a stranger walks into a strange town like 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:34.960 opening of the film, and then all of the scenes 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:39.080 where he's like he kind of bothers everybody, like he's 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:42.799 you know, like in Gavin Newsom's like anti homeless policies. 0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:46.360 You know, it's a it's a very bipartisan. We have 0:50:46.400 --> 0:50:51.399 a bipartisan anti homeless thing going on, obviously. And he 0:50:51.640 --> 0:50:56.000 is also like even when his character like snaps and 0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:59.680 kills somebody, he like kills the homeless guy first, which 0:50:59.719 --> 0:51:00.880 I found very interesting. 0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.880 Yes, I think this is really crucial that when when 0:51:03.920 --> 0:51:07.600 the sheriff starts his murder rampage, the first expression of 0:51:07.640 --> 0:51:10.520 violence that he feels personally justified in doing or feels 0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:14.000 Catharsis isn't doing, isn't isn't like the fake woke mayor. 0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:17.600 It's not Antifa. It's the homeless guy that is the 0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:22.760 first target of acceptable violence in the mind of the sheriff. 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:26.480 And I think that is a very accurate look at 0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:30.080 American politics, and that's not something I've seen discussed very 0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:31.680 much in relation to the film. 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:35.879 No, and I in a way, he's still impotent after that, 0:51:36.000 --> 0:51:37.880 He's like he's he's not even enacting. 0:51:38.000 --> 0:51:40.160 I wouldn't even label that as political violence. 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:43.400 I just labeled that as violence, right, Like earlier in 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:46.880 the movie, all the like teen woke protesters are like 0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:49.319 sitting out in the street, and the homeless guy's kind 0:51:49.360 --> 0:51:51.520 of just standing and like he's like, hey, man, I 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:54.120 don't have any money. Like he's not even asking for anything. Yeah, 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:56.560 he's just kind of standing there and making them all uncomfortable. 0:51:56.880 --> 0:51:57.120 You know. 0:51:57.239 --> 0:52:01.480 He is he is the specter of the other wandering 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:03.960 into this town and then everybody has to like and 0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:07.680 he's like the you know, the beginning of conflict. You know, yeah, 0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:10.480 they're they're like the easiest group to other is the 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:12.160 homeless and the mentally unwell. 0:52:12.520 --> 0:52:12.600 No. 0:52:12.680 --> 0:52:15.480 I think that that part of the film works really well. 0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:20.080 And I guess this film has received a mixed reaction, 0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.799 which I talk a little bit about with with Jane, 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:26.239 which you'll you'll hear in a sec. And I guess 0:52:26.239 --> 0:52:30.840 I'll start by talking about how I believe Eddington works 0:52:30.880 --> 0:52:34.239 as a as a piece of post woke cinema. And 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:36.279 I was talking about this with someone and they asked 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:39.719 me what post woke was, and I was a little confused, 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:42.440 because that's a term that I feel like I understand 0:52:42.440 --> 0:52:45.319 really well, but then I failed to accurately describe it 0:52:45.360 --> 0:52:47.160 to them. And I think it relates to this whole 0:52:47.160 --> 0:52:49.239 cultural moment that we're in now, especially after the twenty 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:54.239 twenty four election, where we're facing this larger cultural backlash 0:52:54.280 --> 0:52:57.759 against you know, woke TM and how that highlights like 0:52:57.800 --> 0:53:03.680 the limits of diversity representation and complicated language to explain 0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:08.160 topics that might actually be you know, reasonable, but by 0:53:08.320 --> 0:53:12.160 expressing them you sound very unreasonable, and I think what 0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:14.920 post woke is and the reason why Eddington is post 0:53:14.960 --> 0:53:18.120 woke and is not anti woke, Like Eddington's not a 0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:20.560 centrist movie. I think it actually is fairly political, but 0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:24.120 it's post woke in such that it is a continuation 0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:28.719 of radical politics which incorporates critiques of the woke era, 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:32.640 what critics would describe as an overreach or excessive focus 0:53:32.680 --> 0:53:37.560 on language or singular identity, trading inaccessible education in favor 0:53:37.560 --> 0:53:41.680 of in group signaling to prove personal political purity. I 0:53:41.680 --> 0:53:46.400 think post woke shoes a shallow performative politics adopted to 0:53:46.400 --> 0:53:50.480 provide social capital, and instead may deliberately flaunt humor, camp, 0:53:50.600 --> 0:53:53.680 or irreverence in ways that may have been labeled problematic 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:57.400 or taboo during the peak of twenty tens online activism, 0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:00.880 but often in a way that signals both curate awareness 0:54:00.920 --> 0:54:03.080 of social issues as well as an exhaustion with or 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:08.200 a playful rebellion against socially alienating language and ideas. And 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:11.640 this can include using irony, parity, and camp to engage 0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:15.719 with social issues without the existential gravity or earnestness of 0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:21.040 prior education focused eras there may now be jokes themes 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:24.560 or performances that skirt or playfully violate previous norms of 0:54:24.600 --> 0:54:27.719 cultural sensitivity, but not out of ignorance, but as a 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:33.080 conscious reversal or escalation, while actually emphasizing material support over 0:54:33.280 --> 0:54:38.960 linguistic gestures and systematic pressure over individual personal action. So 0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:41.480 that's what I mean by post woke. I had to 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:45.640 workshop this definition with a friend earlier this morning, But 0:54:45.920 --> 0:54:49.040 I think that works for both, Like what Eddington is doing, 0:54:49.080 --> 0:54:51.920 I think that works for what events like Twins Versus 0:54:51.920 --> 0:54:55.719 Dolls is doing. How's it's not anti woke but and 0:54:55.760 --> 0:54:58.960 it's not purely reactionary against woke it is it is 0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:03.359 actually a continuous and an escalation while adapting to fit 0:55:03.440 --> 0:55:06.880 the current political climate and still like reflecting on some 0:55:06.920 --> 0:55:09.600 of the shortcomings of the quote unquote Wolke era, which 0:55:09.640 --> 0:55:12.480 we see throughout Eddington a lot in the form of like, 0:55:12.600 --> 0:55:15.880 you know, performative politics, especially that like one like Zoomer 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:18.799 Guy character, Oh yeah, you know, goes on that whole 0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:23.040 rant about like abolishing whiteness to his parents based on 0:55:23.160 --> 0:55:25.839 like googling these concepts like thirty minutes ago, and now 0:55:25.880 --> 0:55:28.520 feels like he has like an academic level understanding of 0:55:28.600 --> 0:55:29.920 whiteness as a concept. 0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:32.839 The intro to him, I guess it's the second it's 0:55:32.840 --> 0:55:34.319 the second time you see him. But he's at the 0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:36.520 he's at the party or whatever. 0:55:36.800 --> 0:55:38.600 Uh, and like he. 0:55:38.600 --> 0:55:41.360 Gives kind of an opinion to this girl that he 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:43.759 has a crush on. They're talking about like, you know, 0:55:44.040 --> 0:55:47.919 whiteness and like privilege and stuff like that, and he class. Yeah, 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:52.399 and class is the really like because clearly he I 0:55:52.440 --> 0:55:55.000 think I think he's supposed to kind of be like 0:55:55.040 --> 0:55:58.680 a lower class like character that then yeah, jumps up 0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:02.319 the ranks through political opportunism, right yeah, but yeah, he 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:04.680 brings up class and is immediately shut down. 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:08.960 And Google's Angela Davis seconds before, but only but only 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:11.440 so that he can flirt with a girl more effectively, 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:13.960 which is very funny. 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:15.359 Incredible, It's so good. 0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:19.279 Other small bits like that. I really enjoyed that. The 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:21.759 like fake woke Mayor who's actually just like a tech 0:56:21.800 --> 0:56:25.480 company shill has he him pronouns on his zoom profile. 0:56:25.719 --> 0:56:27.759 Ye, very very funny to me. 0:56:29.000 --> 0:56:31.840 There are so many little things in this movie. 0:56:32.040 --> 0:56:34.960 It's a lot of little stuff. Yeah, and like very 0:56:34.960 --> 0:56:38.080 obviously this was a film that Ariasta wrote well, like 0:56:38.239 --> 0:56:40.719 way too online during twenty twenty, like he was in 0:56:40.880 --> 0:56:44.319 specifically Twitter, right, this is an extremely Twitter movie, which 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:47.080 is both works for the movie and sometimes works against 0:56:47.080 --> 0:56:49.120 the movie. I have no idea how this film is 0:56:49.120 --> 0:56:51.640 gonna age. Maybe it'll age very well because we'll use 0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:53.759 it as like a cultural artifact to like look back 0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:55.800 on and be like, yeah, that's kind of what twenty 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:56.560 twenty felt like. 0:56:59.080 --> 0:57:00.600 In a couple of years, we're all going to be 0:57:00.640 --> 0:57:02.640 looking back on it and saying, how dare they made 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:06.120 fun of our new currency, crypto, our new bitcoins. 0:57:06.200 --> 0:57:07.440 Everybody has bitcoins. 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:11.560 All of the bitcoin stuff is really good, like I do. 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:15.240 Also, I like that they gave the I don't remember 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:18.560 his name, the black police officer, who's like kind of 0:57:18.920 --> 0:57:21.520 another like main through line for the movie. Yeah, but 0:57:21.800 --> 0:57:25.520 he his only other thing is that he's really into crypto. 0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:27.840 He's so funny, so good. 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:34.040 If anything, I think Eddington is really good at showcasing 0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:37.480 types of guy. There's so many like type of guys 0:57:37.520 --> 0:57:39.960 in this film, and I think that's one of the 0:57:40.040 --> 0:57:42.880 real highlights. And at least for me, Like I'm obviously 0:57:43.000 --> 0:57:47.520 been very politically aware and engaged since you know, twenty 0:57:47.880 --> 0:57:52.240 eighteen or so especially starting in twenty twenty, So like 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:55.240 knowing this film is set in twenty twenty and knowing 0:57:55.280 --> 0:57:58.080 it kind of gets into what that year was, like, 0:57:58.520 --> 0:58:00.280 I actually was able to get go into the film 0:58:00.280 --> 0:58:03.840 pretty pretty blind, and I was able to start calling 0:58:03.880 --> 0:58:07.480 shots really fast as soon as as soon as I realized, 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:10.640 like what what Ari was doing. So like the film 0:58:10.640 --> 0:58:12.920 starts off as this like political satire on like the 0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:17.040 absurdity of COVID Lockdown America, and then we get into 0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:20.520 this like crime thriller genre. Then it concludes with this 0:58:20.560 --> 0:58:23.120 action genre. But at the very start of the film, 0:58:23.120 --> 0:58:25.280 when it's just like this kind of kind of quaint 0:58:25.320 --> 0:58:28.600 like like like parody of Lockdown America, I was like, okay, 0:58:28.720 --> 0:58:31.480 so at like forty five minute mark, we're gonna get 0:58:31.480 --> 0:58:34.240 George Floyd. Right at at one hour in there's gonna 0:58:34.280 --> 0:58:37.360 be riots our you know, hour fifteen, there's gonna be 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:41.760 some like Antifa type situation. And I called so many things. 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:44.240 They just started happening like exactly what I thought they 0:58:44.280 --> 0:58:46.920 were going to. So I was not really surprised by 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:50.160 anything in this film necessarily. I saw everything it was 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:53.680 doing like I saw it coming because I, you know, 0:58:53.800 --> 0:58:56.600 lived that for so much of a twenty twenty, especially 0:58:56.640 --> 0:58:59.480 like the twenty twenty protests in Portland, but also my 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:01.760 familiarity with it was also I was also able to 0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:05.000 then like diagnose how the film was subtly like diverting 0:59:05.000 --> 0:59:08.320 from reality and just showcasing what twenty twenty felt like 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:10.200 and like what twenty twenty was in the minds of 0:59:10.240 --> 0:59:12.960 like people who believed in conspiracy theories more so than 0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:15.040 the actual reality of twenty twenty, which I will also 0:59:15.040 --> 0:59:18.320 discuss more with Jennie Danger later. But I think specifically 0:59:18.360 --> 0:59:21.920 like the genre switching and then setting up all of 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.240 these like twenty twenty hallmarks, I think the film does 0:59:24.280 --> 0:59:27.760 really well doing like pretty solid foreshadowing and hitting all 0:59:27.800 --> 0:59:29.320 the points you're going to have to hit if you're 0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:30.760 gonna make a film about twenty twenty. 0:59:31.080 --> 0:59:36.720 Yeah, yeah, we have the wayfarar pedophile closets. 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:39.240 Totally Q went on cults, child trafficking. 0:59:39.400 --> 0:59:43.040 Yeah, So I watched the movie Network like for four 0:59:43.120 --> 0:59:44.000 days before. 0:59:43.720 --> 0:59:44.280 I watched this. 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:48.480 I need to see networks. Oh my god, Robert's been 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:49.800 trying to get me to watch it for years. I 0:59:49.840 --> 0:59:51.680 just have never found the time. I guess I don't 0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:52.400 know ari. 0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:55.040 Astro like explicitly brought up Network and staid like he 0:59:55.720 --> 0:59:57.760 was thinking about it while making this movie, but that he. 0:59:57.800 --> 0:59:58.959 Wanted it to be more. 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:02.360 The Network is definitely more like it tells you what 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:04.560 it means, sure kind of thing, and like what it 1:00:04.560 --> 1:00:06.240 thinks is the right way to do things. 1:00:06.480 --> 1:00:09.760 And this film purposely does not get into that too much. 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:12.440 It lets its own depiction tell you. 1:00:12.960 --> 1:00:13.320 It doesn't. 1:00:13.360 --> 1:00:16.680 It doesn't like stop you and explain whatever, like you know, 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:19.840 like what its politics are. I think the movie does 1:00:19.880 --> 1:00:21.200 the politics. 1:00:20.880 --> 1:00:25.280 Yes, but I also I thought in comparing it to Network, 1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:27.440 which I will try my hard it's not to spoil 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:32.400 the Network, but there is definitely a theme in this 1:00:32.560 --> 1:00:37.000 and in the Network of like forces above, this movie 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:41.680 is about political puppets about like non political actors, right 1:00:42.200 --> 1:00:45.240 walkin Phoenix's character talks about how like he's not for 1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:47.280 the government, he's for the people kind of thing. So 1:00:47.280 --> 1:00:50.880 he's clearly doing like a populist thing. And then by 1:00:50.880 --> 1:00:54.040 the end of the movie he's all the more like 1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:57.760 he's literally a puppet, right Like, he's like just a 1:00:57.800 --> 1:01:00.920 sack of meat that is like it has to watch 1:01:01.160 --> 1:01:03.920 his mom is not even his mom in law. 1:01:03.880 --> 1:01:07.760 His mother in law, mother in law, ex mother in law. 1:01:07.920 --> 1:01:12.600 It's just incredible, one of the most horrifying concepts. But 1:01:13.080 --> 1:01:16.200 this movie is about like, yeah, a bunch of stuff happens, 1:01:16.560 --> 1:01:18.840 like stuff that's like they're trying to kind of throw 1:01:18.880 --> 1:01:19.680 off the balance. 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:23.720 Yeah, people are trying to make political change while dealing 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:28.200 with this problem that politics is both very real, it's physical, 1:01:28.320 --> 1:01:31.520 it determines almost everything about our lives, but it's also 1:01:32.200 --> 1:01:36.160 very vague and nebulous and removed. So like, how do 1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:39.480 you exert agency over something that is both real and 1:01:39.720 --> 1:01:42.800 non real? To be a political actor, do you have 1:01:42.840 --> 1:01:47.280 to literally be like an astroturfed paid actor. The people 1:01:47.280 --> 1:01:50.920 that seemingly have the most political agency aren't even acting 1:01:50.960 --> 1:01:54.520 on any personal agency but instead of just furthering the 1:01:54.520 --> 1:01:56.760 interests of other entities. 1:01:57.080 --> 1:02:01.480 Yeah, but the corporation's the big money people whoever's like 1:02:01.600 --> 1:02:05.120 in the background, right the the plane with the giant 1:02:05.160 --> 1:02:06.960 hand holding the globe. 1:02:07.720 --> 1:02:10.080 And the Antifa globe jet. 1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:13.760 Yeah, yeah, the the So Okay, here's a question because 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:16.440 because when I watched it, I thought that it was 1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:20.240 it's like paid actors, right, Like they're paid like a 1:02:20.320 --> 1:02:21.320 paid Colson group. 1:02:21.600 --> 1:02:23.120 That's what that's what I write it as. 1:02:23.320 --> 1:02:26.440 I think it's left for audience interpretation whether whether or 1:02:26.480 --> 1:02:29.880 not this is like the George Soros funded Antifa, like 1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:33.360 Specop's crew, who are genuine about their beliefs, or if 1:02:33.360 --> 1:02:35.760 they're like a false flag crew who's just going around 1:02:36.120 --> 1:02:39.880 so in chaos to promote like political discord, but not 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:42.800 for like ideological reasons, like just just through like false 1:02:42.800 --> 1:02:45.840 flag attacks. I think it's intentionally left up to the audience, 1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:48.280 and I think it's it's depicting that because of all 1:02:48.280 --> 1:02:51.560 of like the Antifa conspiracy theories going around in twenty twenty, 1:02:52.080 --> 1:02:53.360 and I view that as like a it's like a 1:02:53.400 --> 1:02:58.640 manifestation of how the right wing viewed this concept of Antifa, 1:02:58.680 --> 1:03:02.040 even though Antifa is actually teenagers wearing black hoodies. Yeah, 1:03:02.200 --> 1:03:04.000 but they treated it as if it was this like 1:03:04.200 --> 1:03:07.600 organized group going around doing push ups. 1:03:07.480 --> 1:03:13.880 On their private chat, smoking big cigars, getting air dropped 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:17.640 into into small towns to go exactly blow things up. 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:22.400 Is like exactly, so funny of Antifa are coming in. 1:03:22.680 --> 1:03:26.800 Yeah, And then that leads into what I think is 1:03:26.800 --> 1:03:30.000 the best joke in the movie, the TikTok zoomer guy 1:03:30.600 --> 1:03:34.160 shooting while holding his phone and then like it cuts 1:03:34.320 --> 1:03:38.480 immediately into like a now this uh like TikTok about 1:03:38.600 --> 1:03:40.280 the antifas. 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:42.800 Like militia time is and then. 1:03:42.720 --> 1:03:44.760 He's like a hype guy and he's got like a 1:03:44.800 --> 1:03:47.680 podcast where he's talking about if Michelle Obama's gonna run 1:03:47.720 --> 1:03:52.040 for president or whatever, like so good, what do you 1:03:52.120 --> 1:03:55.480 what do you think of kind of the the semi 1:03:55.600 --> 1:03:59.280 cliffhanger conclusion of some of the threads. 1:03:59.400 --> 1:04:01.520 I guess, hmmm, because and. 1:04:01.480 --> 1:04:03.919 I'm only thinking about this as a cliffhanger because he's 1:04:03.960 --> 1:04:08.640 talked about it him making a sequel, if that makes sense, Yeah. 1:04:08.440 --> 1:04:11.160 Like a like a loose sequel, Yeah. 1:04:10.920 --> 1:04:13.400 Yeah, with like some of the same characters. 1:04:13.400 --> 1:04:14.000 I guess. 1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:14.800 I don't know. 1:04:14.800 --> 1:04:17.200 I have felt pretty satisfied with how this wrapped up, 1:04:17.240 --> 1:04:20.960 because I mean, twenty twenty did not have a real ending. 1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:23.040 We are still living in the shadow of twenty twenty. 1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:26.240 There's still is loose threads, like COVID still is a 1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:29.520 thing that exists. We're still living with, like the way 1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:33.120 political violence escalated and never fully went away with, especially 1:04:33.240 --> 1:04:37.920 like January sixth, and how even the concept of pedophilia 1:04:37.960 --> 1:04:41.000 still runs almost all of politics. Like this is what 1:04:41.040 --> 1:04:43.600 politics is about. Is like deciding who is and isn't 1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:47.080 a pedophile. Yeah, like the whole conspiracy theory angle. More 1:04:47.080 --> 1:04:48.800 people are conspiracy theorists now than I think they were 1:04:48.800 --> 1:04:51.360 in twenty twenty, including like liberals, Oh yeah, no, the 1:04:51.400 --> 1:04:56.280 whole like blue and on conspiracy theories, the alt National Park, 1:04:56.680 --> 1:05:00.720 Blue Sky accounts, the Trump assassination was stayed, like all 1:05:00.760 --> 1:05:03.040 of that kind of stuff is like, this has just 1:05:03.160 --> 1:05:05.760 become all of what politics is. 1:05:05.920 --> 1:05:06.960 It's what your mom does. 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:10.200 It's what like your mom, or like your every one 1:05:10.200 --> 1:05:11.280 of your parents. 1:05:10.880 --> 1:05:13.120 Does, and not just your right wing mom. Now, like 1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:14.560 this is like everybody's mom. 1:05:14.680 --> 1:05:14.919 Yeah. 1:05:14.960 --> 1:05:17.240 And I think that's the sort of American decline that 1:05:17.600 --> 1:05:19.800 ori Astra is depicting, as opposed to the type that 1:05:19.880 --> 1:05:22.160 James Gut is depicting. I think it's much more accurate, 1:05:22.240 --> 1:05:24.160 I agree, And it's much more holistic. 1:05:24.440 --> 1:05:25.800 Yes, I don't think you could. 1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:28.760 I obviously, I don't think you could kind of really 1:05:28.800 --> 1:05:34.160 hold the schizophrenia that the post twenty twenty post lockdown 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:38.320 political schizophrenia that we exist and currently I agree, where 1:05:38.360 --> 1:05:40.280 like everything is ungrounded. 1:05:40.680 --> 1:05:42.920 You know, you can't do a superhero story like that. 1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:44.760 I don't think there's like no way to do that. 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:49.400 No, unless you use my favorite superhero, the question Yes, 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:52.680 in which you could do that and James Gutt if 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:54.880 you're listening, I will write to a question film and 1:05:54.920 --> 1:05:59.880 it will be crazy. But like in terms of like 1:05:59.880 --> 1:06:02.920 like filmmaking, I think I think post woke as like 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:05.000 a filmmaking style, and like what our aster is doing 1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:08.080 here is a reaction to the past, like ten years 1:06:08.120 --> 1:06:13.720 of liberal self aggrandizing movies as content slop right, which 1:06:13.760 --> 1:06:17.280 tries to get points for like diversity casting without having 1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:20.640 any actual like substance of politics or will like gesture 1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:23.240 to things relating to class, even though it's made by 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.800 these big, you know, multi billion dollar corporations. And I 1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:28.840 think I think that whole era produced this sort of 1:06:28.880 --> 1:06:33.440 schizophrenia because everything feels so paradoxical and self contradictory. And 1:06:33.480 --> 1:06:36.400 I think part of the feelings that evokes is what 1:06:36.520 --> 1:06:40.160 Eddington is trying to pull on and depicting those feelings 1:06:40.200 --> 1:06:42.800 as a subject itself, not just as like a background 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:45.760 thing that we try to either like acknowledge sort of 1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:48.880 or try to like not acknowledge and like ignore. I 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:53.480 think viewing that that cultural schizophrenia as a subject. If anything, 1:06:53.600 --> 1:06:56.880 that's like the main character of Eddington, and I think 1:06:56.920 --> 1:06:59.000 that's the part that that worked the most for me. 1:07:00.040 --> 1:07:02.920 Yeah, I think structure wise, a lot of people were 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:06.000 talking about like it feels like too scattered of a movie. 1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:07.640 I think I saw that a lot, and like the 1:07:07.680 --> 1:07:11.080 critiques of it, and I think, like, sure, if we're 1:07:11.120 --> 1:07:14.960 talking about like just you know, does it become a 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:18.080 little confusing to follow. Maybe, but it's like that's the point, 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:20.520 like and not to say like that's the point, so 1:07:20.560 --> 1:07:22.600 it watches that away. But like, I don't think you can. 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:25.440 I don't think you can make a movie accurately. 1:07:25.680 --> 1:07:27.840 You can't make a movie about that era without it 1:07:27.920 --> 1:07:29.040 feeling scattered like that. 1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.040 Yeah, that's why I really respect ori Astor. 1:07:32.280 --> 1:07:36.120 I think I was talking to my partner yesterday about 1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:37.680 who's the guy that made like. 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:41.040 Nosferatu and all those movies. Robert Eggers. 1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:45.640 Robert Eggers very good filmmaker, but he's explicitly talked about 1:07:45.760 --> 1:07:46.760 how he doesn't. 1:07:46.520 --> 1:07:48.440 Ever want to do modern films. 1:07:48.520 --> 1:07:51.720 Yeah, a modern film, I guess. I haven't seen The Crouds, 1:07:52.000 --> 1:07:53.560 but I've heard very good things about it. 1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:54.600 Me neither me neither. 1:07:54.960 --> 1:07:56.320 Yeah, I want to see that movie. 1:07:56.120 --> 1:07:58.280 Because I think Cronenberg is another one who's like I 1:07:58.680 --> 1:08:01.240 also want. I watched so great lineup for this movie. 1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.880 I watched Corningberg's What's the Video Drome? 1:08:05.840 --> 1:08:06.160 Recently? 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:09.600 That did I can definitely see Eddington kind of being 1:08:10.200 --> 1:08:12.960 a grandchild of video drone in some ways. 1:08:13.080 --> 1:08:16.160 I would also recommend. I've also I've been reading Mark 1:08:16.200 --> 1:08:18.040 Fisher's Flat Line Constructs. 1:08:18.280 --> 1:08:19.639 This is a very Fisher movie. 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:20.960 Yeah, very Fisher. 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:21.519 Yeah. 1:08:21.520 --> 1:08:25.360 I literally I listened to the stupid Russell Brand audio 1:08:25.400 --> 1:08:27.360 Book of Capitalists. 1:08:28.080 --> 1:08:30.160 No, oh, that sucks. 1:08:30.280 --> 1:08:33.559 I know Russell Brand sucks, but I was at work 1:08:33.600 --> 1:08:35.680 and I just needed something to listen to. So I 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:38.040 didn't like blow my head off, and it didn't end 1:08:38.160 --> 1:08:40.920 up working out actually because I was working my shitty 1:08:41.000 --> 1:08:42.240 job and listening. 1:08:41.880 --> 1:08:47.919 To capitalist Brandy Russell Brand, Russell Brands Capitalist Realism. 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:49.759 Oh God, what a bummer. 1:08:50.040 --> 1:08:54.360 Yeah, truly, Mark Fisher is only l Yeah. 1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:55.960 It is unbearable to have to listen to his voice, 1:08:56.000 --> 1:08:58.599 but it's a great book. I would definitely recommend reading 1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:02.000 that if he want to go into Eddington even more 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:05.559 like Locked In, I guess, but this is a very 1:09:05.640 --> 1:09:10.080 like yeah, like you know, capital can convert anything into 1:09:10.479 --> 1:09:14.200 the image of something else. There was one shot that 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:17.679 I really I found very evocative, which was the shot 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:22.000 of like him walking Phoenix's characters having his haircut by 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:27.760 his whatever stepmom ex stepmom, and she's talking about like 1:09:27.800 --> 1:09:31.559 conspiracy theory while filming it. That's good for TikTok, And 1:09:31.600 --> 1:09:35.519 it's like this is so perfect and so morbid, and. 1:09:35.400 --> 1:09:37.880 Like, yeah, no, there's there's a little bit of like 1:09:38.600 --> 1:09:42.760 Butdriard's book on America here, there's certainly a lot of 1:09:42.800 --> 1:09:44.840 ged Aboard in this, and I think that also was 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.600 part of what relates it to me to Superman is 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:51.800 how much like Superman is accidentally doing geed aboard regarding 1:09:52.160 --> 1:09:55.240 the genocide and Palestine, and how much I think that 1:09:55.320 --> 1:09:57.439 critique is actually built into Eddington. 1:09:58.840 --> 1:09:59.000 No. 1:09:59.120 --> 1:10:03.320 Absolutely, yeah, I I Superman is such an an interesting 1:10:04.439 --> 1:10:07.120 movie to take on that subject because obviously, in a 1:10:07.160 --> 1:10:09.400 way you're kind of like, well, good for James Gunn 1:10:09.720 --> 1:10:11.639 for doing something daring. 1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:13.880 I guess daring, I say with air quotes. 1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:17.679 But it's also like you have the Israel Palestine stuff 1:10:17.880 --> 1:10:20.840 placed right after a scene where Superman saves a green 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:25.599 baby from a river of like cosmic sludge. 1:10:25.280 --> 1:10:27.040 Of like CGI squares. 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:30.720 Yeah, which, by the way, I'm sure I don't know 1:10:30.760 --> 1:10:33.120 if this is the general consensus, but I thought that 1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:35.880 that scene was ugliest sin and I kind of hated it. 1:10:36.520 --> 1:10:39.920 Also, I hated the whole Pocket dimension. Yeah, aspect. I 1:10:40.280 --> 1:10:42.160 don't know why they didn't do a quick like ten 1:10:42.200 --> 1:10:45.800 minute interlude into the phantom zone keep hit that. But no, 1:10:45.960 --> 1:10:49.280 I think that that whole Pocket Dimension like forty minutes 1:10:49.560 --> 1:10:51.600 like derailed and stagnated a lot of the film for 1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:53.880 me and did not look very good. 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:57.200 He's doing like Lex Luthor's Peter Thiel, Lex Luthor is 1:10:57.240 --> 1:11:01.320 Elon Musk Lex Luthor's, which could work. Yeah, yeah, which 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:03.280 I think. I think I found it funny at least 1:11:03.320 --> 1:11:05.960 I said, like totally. I watched it and I thought like, oh, 1:11:06.000 --> 1:11:08.800 I know what he's doing. You know that he's Peter Thiel, 1:11:08.880 --> 1:11:09.920 shut down Gawker or. 1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:11.719 Whatever, crying men baby. 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:12.280 Yeah. 1:11:12.439 --> 1:11:15.639 Yeah, so it's like I get it, But I also, 1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:18.200 I mean, it's been done before, kind of thing, like 1:11:18.280 --> 1:11:21.360 I don't find it, you know that I don't know, 1:11:21.439 --> 1:11:24.080 but he Hey, his performance is great, But then the 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:26.760 whole Palestine stuff is also capped off with a scene 1:11:26.800 --> 1:11:29.800 where lesh Luthor gets like bullied by a dog. You know, 1:11:30.320 --> 1:11:32.920 it's sandwiched between two things that are just like I 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:35.439 don't know if you can do this or if you 1:11:35.439 --> 1:11:38.760 should do this, Like I don't know, No. 1:11:38.840 --> 1:11:39.160 It is. 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:41.599 I think it's it's part of that sort of cultural 1:11:41.600 --> 1:11:45.280 schizophrenia that I think that Eddington is pulling on. Yeah 1:11:45.640 --> 1:11:50.600 is moments like that in the David Zaslov Winner Brothers, Discovery, 1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:52.799 Superman twenty twenty five. 1:11:53.960 --> 1:11:55.200 And Eddington just is. 1:11:55.720 --> 1:11:57.639 You know, it's a film that is like its entire 1:11:57.720 --> 1:12:01.280 thesis is that is the yeah is, the jumping around 1:12:01.840 --> 1:12:05.000 the just ret like his car is covered in shit 1:12:05.439 --> 1:12:06.240 for the entire movie. 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:08.360 I love it so funny. 1:12:08.560 --> 1:12:10.960 All the all the slogans are like kind of like 1:12:11.000 --> 1:12:13.400 they're all trying to put in their own little thing, 1:12:13.680 --> 1:12:15.839 you know, Like he's like, can we make it about bitcoin? 1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:17.400 Can we make it about. 1:12:17.280 --> 1:12:20.840 It's like a twenty twenty conservative Facebook feed brought to life. 1:12:20.960 --> 1:12:24.519 Yes, Yes, it's a great movie. I love Eddingson. I 1:12:24.560 --> 1:12:26.679 think that this movie will age very well. 1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:31.120 Well, what would you like to plug Bailey new poster? 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:35.200 I think you should follow me If you have an 1:12:35.439 --> 1:12:36.760 X you should follow me. 1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:40.960 On at what is it called at New Poster two 1:12:41.200 --> 1:12:41.720 on x. 1:12:42.520 --> 1:12:46.599 If you're on Instagram, you should follow me at postalytical Bling, 1:12:46.880 --> 1:12:48.760 which is a terrible username, but I made. 1:12:49.320 --> 1:12:51.559 It's my writing user name, like ages ago, I think. 1:12:52.240 --> 1:12:55.360 And then on Blue Sky, if you use that, you 1:12:55.360 --> 1:12:57.920 should follow me it what even is michaelue Sky? 1:12:57.920 --> 1:12:59.559 I don't even use I'm gonna be honest, I don't 1:12:59.600 --> 1:13:00.200 use blues guy. 1:13:00.320 --> 1:13:02.639 But if you if we got to fix the vibes 1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:04.280 on there, baby, we we got it, we got we 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:07.519 got we got to get more like crazy crazy unhinged 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:08.639 art on Blue Start all. 1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:13.040 Right, Uh, it's it's New Poster Dot, Bluesky dot social 1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:13.559 or whatever. 1:13:14.000 --> 1:13:17.240 So there you go if you need that. There, there's 1:13:17.360 --> 1:13:18.760 the there's the plugs. 1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:20.759 Well, thank you for coming on to talk about Eddington 1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:21.639 and Superman. 1:13:21.880 --> 1:13:24.639 Thank you so much for inviting me. This has been wonderful. 1:13:24.800 --> 1:13:27.560 I love Eddington, I enjoyed Superman, so this is a 1:13:28.360 --> 1:13:29.040 good talk. 1:13:29.560 --> 1:13:43.160 There you go, Lovely Lovely. For the last segment of 1:13:43.200 --> 1:13:47.000 our post Woke Cinema episode, I'm gonna play a conversation 1:13:47.080 --> 1:13:51.320 I had with Atlanta musician Janey Danger, who we talk 1:13:51.400 --> 1:13:55.240 about her thoughts on the film Eddington and the way 1:13:55.320 --> 1:13:59.760 it manifests twenty twenties hyperreality. 1:14:00.240 --> 1:14:01.160 A little background. 1:14:01.360 --> 1:14:05.000 I guess, like I really like ariost I remember talking 1:14:05.000 --> 1:14:06.719 with you about Bo's Afraid a while ago. 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:09.599 I remember you weren't a huge fan of it. 1:14:10.040 --> 1:14:10.639 Not so hot. 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:13.639 I'm Bo's Afraid. I'm Afraid. I wanted to like it too, 1:14:14.040 --> 1:14:17.559 because whenever people talk about this like like like off putting, 1:14:17.720 --> 1:14:21.640 long slow cinema about like anxiety, like I want to 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:25.519 like that, Like Illa Dumpayer is one of the best films. Ever, 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:27.960 there's other other other films that do is that that 1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:31.320 that also tackle its not just like David Lynch. Yeah, 1:14:31.360 --> 1:14:34.080 and like the rest of ari Astor, I was always 1:14:34.120 --> 1:14:36.800 like lukewarm to kind of positive on Like, I don't 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:40.000 hate him as a filmmaker. I don't have that as 1:14:40.040 --> 1:14:43.400 part of my personality way some people do. Yeah, I 1:14:43.400 --> 1:14:45.400 think his movies are just fine. I think he does 1:14:45.520 --> 1:14:48.000 dabble in or. I guess he like overlies on a 1:14:48.000 --> 1:14:49.519 degree of shalk value, which you could even see in 1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:51.800 his earlier like student films. Yeah, I think are like 1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:56.599 very juvenile and not interesting. I think Hereditary's fine. So 1:14:56.920 --> 1:14:59.160 aria Aster has always been there but I've never been 1:14:59.240 --> 1:15:00.839 like a a story in Bio. 1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:03.479 I think he's kind of cool to hate now, Like 1:15:03.520 --> 1:15:06.800 I think with he's very cool to hate now people 1:15:06.880 --> 1:15:07.720 really like hating him. 1:15:07.800 --> 1:15:09.479 But Eddington I think has done him a lot of 1:15:09.600 --> 1:15:11.920 favors though among the people who used to hate him. 1:15:12.000 --> 1:15:15.120 I've kind of noticed that it seems like with Hereditary 1:15:15.160 --> 1:15:18.800 in Midsummer, those were generally like very well received by 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:21.880 like the A twenty four crowd, and it was kind 1:15:21.920 --> 1:15:24.000 of like, I guess the cool opinion would be to 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:26.840 be like those movies are mid and then like Bo 1:15:26.960 --> 1:15:28.799 Was Afraid as a masterpiece or whatever. 1:15:29.320 --> 1:15:31.200 I like his horror movies. 1:15:31.240 --> 1:15:34.439 I think they're slick, well made films with good stories. 1:15:35.080 --> 1:15:38.560 I love bo Was Afraid though, I think it's incredible, 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:40.800 but it is not the kind of it's the kind 1:15:40.800 --> 1:15:42.559 of movie that, like, as much as I love it, 1:15:42.600 --> 1:15:45.760 as much as it means to me, as seen as 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:47.960 I feel by that film, it's not the kind of 1:15:47.960 --> 1:15:50.519 thing that like, if you don't like it, I'm not 1:15:50.560 --> 1:15:53.720 gonna like convince you, you know, like there's probably like 1:15:53.800 --> 1:15:55.760 if you told me you didn't like Maholland Drive, like 1:15:55.800 --> 1:15:58.040 I'd be like, you're fucking stupid and wrong. 1:15:58.400 --> 1:16:00.200 You're dumb if you tell me you don't like was. 1:16:00.200 --> 1:16:03.600 Afraid, It's like fair enough, It's it's sure certainly the 1:16:03.680 --> 1:16:06.439 kind of thing that's not for everyone. I bring it 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:11.479 up mostly because I think with bo and Eddington, it's 1:16:11.520 --> 1:16:15.320 a very interesting thing he does that is kind of 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:19.000 I guess I compared to maybe like French new wave directors, 1:16:19.000 --> 1:16:22.479 maybe like something like Selene and Julie go Boding, where 1:16:23.320 --> 1:16:30.320 the like protagonists are living in like a fake insane reality, 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:35.160 where in other directors, like most other films, like you'd 1:16:35.200 --> 1:16:39.680 have someone who's like going insane and hallucinating and like 1:16:39.960 --> 1:16:41.719 everyone's trying to kill them, et cetera. 1:16:42.120 --> 1:16:44.520 And then maybe there would be like a cut. 1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:46.000 Which is kind of what happens to bow Is Afraid. 1:16:46.120 --> 1:16:48.800 Yeah, but in other movies there would maybe be like 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:51.920 a cut away for someone else where they see like 1:16:51.960 --> 1:16:54.400 the character like arguing to a shadow like. 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:57.280 The quote unquote real perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 1:16:57.720 --> 1:17:00.280 And I think that bo Is Afraid it's like it's no, 1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:04.519 this is real, And I think Eddington does a very 1:17:04.520 --> 1:17:10.160 similar thing where the beliefs of the characters are real, 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:14.800 and that's why like you know, all the conservatives, Like 1:17:14.840 --> 1:17:16.679 I mean, if you remember twenty twenty, they're like there's 1:17:16.720 --> 1:17:19.759 Antipho super soldiers that are going out and doing terrorism. 1:17:19.880 --> 1:17:22.839 It's like so in this world, in the Eddington universe, 1:17:22.880 --> 1:17:24.759 it's like what if that was real? 1:17:24.920 --> 1:17:26.320 Like what if Fox. 1:17:26.040 --> 1:17:29.599 News was actually in motion here? And I think that's 1:17:29.680 --> 1:17:30.400 very interesting. 1:17:31.080 --> 1:17:32.600 The approach that he does in Eddington, I think is 1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:33.960 a little bit more subtle than the way there's in 1:17:34.000 --> 1:17:37.280 bos Afraid, because you start the film way way more 1:17:37.360 --> 1:17:39.799 as like a as like you know, a political satire 1:17:39.880 --> 1:17:44.280 on the absurdity of like pandemic era America, and then 1:17:44.600 --> 1:17:49.760 the reality starts diverting from what we can agree as 1:17:49.840 --> 1:17:52.080 like as like a shared consensus reality. Yeah, and then 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:54.920 it it diverts from that the same way reality diverted 1:17:54.920 --> 1:17:57.080 away from that in twenty twenty for people, and we 1:17:57.160 --> 1:17:59.839 created this like yeah, massive like reality fracture. 1:18:00.560 --> 1:18:01.080 Yeah. 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:03.760 Like the first time I noticed this in the filmmaking 1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:07.000 was there was like a news clip about like a 1:18:07.120 --> 1:18:09.680 Portland riot in twenty twenty, and it had people like 1:18:09.720 --> 1:18:13.960 exchanging gunfire on rooftops and it was played next to 1:18:14.200 --> 1:18:16.519 actual news clips of like the Third Precinct burning down, 1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:18.479 like it was played off as like a real, legitimate 1:18:18.479 --> 1:18:20.720 news clip. Yeah, and like I was, I lived in 1:18:20.760 --> 1:18:22.720 Portland in twenty twenty. I know that's not real. But 1:18:22.800 --> 1:18:25.680 to many people viewing, they might not catch that. That 1:18:25.760 --> 1:18:28.200 might just be like, that might just go into the background. 1:18:28.360 --> 1:18:30.599 So at that point I realized that actually the way 1:18:30.640 --> 1:18:33.040 that reality is getting diverted in the film is way 1:18:33.080 --> 1:18:34.840 more subtle. And then of course you get like the 1:18:34.920 --> 1:18:37.719 Antifa super soldier private jet later and it's more obvious 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:42.000 like what he's doing. But even like small things like that, 1:18:42.120 --> 1:18:44.320 I started to really appreciate you, Like, no, you're like 1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:47.200 getting into the mind of people who believe these things, 1:18:47.720 --> 1:18:50.400 and that's what we're that's what's being depicted, Like the 1:18:50.439 --> 1:18:53.160 feelings of twenty twenty are more important than the reality 1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:57.080 of twenty twenty, and that is what he's trying to show. 1:18:57.600 --> 1:19:00.360 That's even kind of like a meta in a sense, 1:19:00.439 --> 1:19:03.519 because it's like if you watch that that scene of 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:07.160 like the footage of the Portland like shooting and stuff, 1:19:07.520 --> 1:19:10.160 and you as the audience or like questioning if that 1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:14.320 was real, then it's like your consensus reality is also 1:19:15.080 --> 1:19:19.040 diverging from the regular consensus reality. It's like it kind 1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:22.760 of makes you a cipher for the characters, which which 1:19:22.800 --> 1:19:26.559 also leads me to something something else. So something I 1:19:26.560 --> 1:19:28.280 don't see a lot of people talking about. But the 1:19:29.640 --> 1:19:34.040 vagrant character that that starts the film where he comes 1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:37.320 in and he's just like mumbling like messages. And if 1:19:37.320 --> 1:19:40.080 you've ever been around like a you know, like a 1:19:40.120 --> 1:19:43.799 homeless person on a bus or something, they like to mumble. 1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:48.960 And it's I read that as someone who's like just 1:19:49.640 --> 1:19:54.559 essentially doing what everyone else in this movie eventually comes 1:19:54.600 --> 1:19:58.000 to do totally, yes, which is just taking all of 1:19:58.040 --> 1:20:02.920 your like internalized like messages, traumas, like things you've heard, 1:20:03.080 --> 1:20:07.200 things you believe, and just like grumbling it, spitting it out. 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:09.760 And so anyone who talks to you, you just incessantly 1:20:10.000 --> 1:20:12.360 just like messages, messages, messages. 1:20:12.840 --> 1:20:16.599 Dissimilarity of that character to like the Mom character, who 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:18.760 does the same thing but is seen in a very 1:20:18.760 --> 1:20:21.360 different way. Yeah, because of a house, she has like 1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:23.080 a home to live in and has like family. 1:20:23.240 --> 1:20:26.920 Yeah, absolutely, And there's no there's no place for a 1:20:26.960 --> 1:20:29.880 person like the vagrant in this world, but there is 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:32.960 a place for all these other types of insane people. 1:20:33.600 --> 1:20:37.560 And they're all able to find their little little niches 1:20:37.880 --> 1:20:41.640 and such, when maybe in a world before that and 1:20:41.680 --> 1:20:46.400 a world before it was so easy to find such niches, 1:20:47.439 --> 1:20:50.120 maybe like you would I don't know, go to therapy, 1:20:50.560 --> 1:20:51.639 maybe like maybe your. 1:20:51.560 --> 1:20:53.760 Family would would be concerned. 1:20:54.680 --> 1:20:58.479 It is very interesting because people very are are very 1:20:58.520 --> 1:21:01.800 prone now, and it's like that's because they're able to 1:21:01.920 --> 1:21:04.800 like get pulled into these cults. They find their own 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:08.720 kind of Austin Butler figure who's able to talk to 1:21:08.760 --> 1:21:11.839 them directly and be like, no, come with me, you're okay, 1:21:12.680 --> 1:21:15.680 and just to go back to the point of like 1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:19.280 messages and stuff. I think that the uh, the Joaquin 1:21:19.320 --> 1:21:22.240 Phoenix character. I think he starts out as a very 1:21:22.360 --> 1:21:25.479 like uh like Hank Hill, like very I mean he 1:21:25.520 --> 1:21:27.559 doesn't he doesn't want to wear a mask. He's obviously 1:21:27.640 --> 1:21:29.840 leans a bit conservative, but. 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:31.200 But he's like trying to kind of be like a 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:32.240 reasonable guy. 1:21:32.320 --> 1:21:35.439 Right, And I see him as someone who's trying to 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:39.639 like avoid the messaging from everyone. Like even when people 1:21:39.680 --> 1:21:42.840 tell him about like certain news stories and stuff, he's like, 1:21:42.880 --> 1:21:46.840 I don't know, like he just doesn't know. And yeah, 1:21:47.400 --> 1:21:50.439 in the process of him like avoiding all these messages, 1:21:50.479 --> 1:21:54.000 what does he do. He buys a truck and covers 1:21:54.040 --> 1:21:55.400 it in fucking messages. 1:21:55.560 --> 1:21:58.759 In messages he starts broadcasting his reality to everyone around 1:21:58.840 --> 1:21:59.640 him exactly. 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:03.120 It's like, I don't know, I think that normally, normally 1:22:03.120 --> 1:22:05.479 I would call it bad writing for like every character 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:08.599 to be like a cipher. But I think what he 1:22:08.640 --> 1:22:11.519 does in this is is really really interesting. Like I 1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:15.040 think it's a I don't know, I guess, like one 1:22:15.080 --> 1:22:17.559 more thing that I really like, do want to say, 1:22:17.680 --> 1:22:21.280 is like Ari Astor did an interview with Will Minker 1:22:21.360 --> 1:22:27.080 and Hesse of like Chapo, and he said that he 1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:29.839 kind of wanted to make this movie like a Rorshack 1:22:29.960 --> 1:22:36.800 test of sorts, and I think he maybe overly succeeded 1:22:36.840 --> 1:22:40.480 in that definitely. And in fact, if I had one criticism, 1:22:40.520 --> 1:22:44.000 it's that maybe I wish there was like a few 1:22:44.040 --> 1:22:46.599 things like tied together that and I just wish Austin 1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:47.240 Butler and emm A. 1:22:47.280 --> 1:22:49.439 Stone got a little more meat to do things. 1:22:49.439 --> 1:22:52.320 But aside from that, one of the biggest criticisms that 1:22:52.400 --> 1:22:55.599 I'm honestly just going to dismiss outright as people saying 1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:59.520 that this is like a centrist movie totally, or comparing 1:22:59.520 --> 1:23:02.720 this to South Park or something like that. And if 1:23:02.720 --> 1:23:05.840 you view this as a centrist movie, I mean, the 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:09.720 liberals in this are like kind of annoying and effectual. 1:23:10.280 --> 1:23:12.040 A lot of them don't really believe what they do. 1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:12.800 Some of them do. 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:15.680 I think the girl character is very sympathetic, but like 1:23:15.760 --> 1:23:19.439 the younger girl. But Joaquin Phoenix, the ostensible, like you know, 1:23:19.640 --> 1:23:23.760 right wing version of this, kills a child, like he 1:23:23.920 --> 1:23:26.520 kills three people, including like a teenager. 1:23:26.920 --> 1:23:30.840 Like the woke characters engage with politics in a that 1:23:31.040 --> 1:23:34.680 but and self serving way to mask their own insecurities 1:23:34.720 --> 1:23:38.000 and shortcomings and for their own personal benefit. The right 1:23:38.000 --> 1:23:42.400 wing characters murder and have rape cults, and. 1:23:42.640 --> 1:23:45.960 Yeah, right, Like I don't I don't see how you 1:23:46.000 --> 1:23:49.439 could look at the actions of the characters in this 1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:53.400 film and just be like, yeah, I guess everyone is stupid. 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:56.760 I guess everyone is wrong because it's like no, like 1:23:57.160 --> 1:23:59.439 I mean, I guess everyone is a little stupid and 1:23:59.479 --> 1:24:02.080 everyone is kind of wrong about things. But like, that's 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:04.479 not like what it's getting across. I think that's a 1:24:04.560 --> 1:24:06.880 very shallow read of the film. 1:24:07.360 --> 1:24:10.680 This is what people outside of the Brooklyn theater were 1:24:10.720 --> 1:24:14.080 complaining about when I eavesdropped for like nearly forty five 1:24:14.120 --> 1:24:16.160 minutes after the film, just to hear what people were 1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:19.519 talking about. I love eavesdropping, I love snooping, So I 1:24:19.600 --> 1:24:21.519 was really feasting out there. And Yeah, a lot of 1:24:21.520 --> 1:24:24.639 people upset at how quote unquote little this film had 1:24:24.680 --> 1:24:26.960 to say. It's just it's just depicting these things but 1:24:27.240 --> 1:24:31.479 doesn't have the audacity to actually like say anything about 1:24:31.479 --> 1:24:33.920 them or like take a quote unquote stance, and like, yeah, 1:24:33.960 --> 1:24:36.920 that's so not what the film is trying to do. 1:24:37.320 --> 1:24:40.599 That the film is pointing out, like the social media 1:24:40.680 --> 1:24:44.599 style engagement with politics is it's incredibly self serving thing, 1:24:44.720 --> 1:24:46.639 and it's this performance that we put on for other 1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:50.200 people and sometimes put on even for ourselves. And twenty 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:53.719 twenty was away because of the conditions of the lockdown, 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:56.880 the Internet and real life combined in a way more 1:24:57.000 --> 1:24:59.800 like totalistically than they have ever before. And then that 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:05.320 combination grew pressure and shot outwards into physical reality in 1:25:05.360 --> 1:25:08.120 a very bombastic way, both for the twenty twenty protests 1:25:08.120 --> 1:25:10.720 and eventually something like January sixth, right, both these things, Yeah, 1:25:10.840 --> 1:25:12.400 I think you can you can look at a similar 1:25:12.800 --> 1:25:17.080 like a political pressure like building and manifesting, and it's 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:19.160 not saying these things are like equal. It's not the 1:25:19.240 --> 1:25:22.160 centrist I'm better than thou for you look at all 1:25:22.160 --> 1:25:26.720 these crazy guys. But it's it's talking about how we 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:29.200 as a culture associate with politics now, and like how 1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:32.840 as like American culture we associate with politics now, and 1:25:33.200 --> 1:25:36.040 maybe that's kind of troubling and kind of scary. That's 1:25:36.080 --> 1:25:37.960 like the horror of the film is ye, the way 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:40.839 that we associate with social media politics now is really frightening. 1:25:40.840 --> 1:25:43.400 Which isn't like a revolutionary thing to say, right. This 1:25:43.479 --> 1:25:46.000 isn't like, you know, breaking new ground here, but he 1:25:46.080 --> 1:25:48.680 is expressing something that everyone I think has felt at 1:25:48.720 --> 1:25:52.600 a certain point. Sure, but it's it's it's presented in 1:25:52.640 --> 1:25:55.200 a way that I think is it very much is 1:25:55.200 --> 1:25:56.679 a Rorscha act test for a lot of people. 1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:00.240 I think a lot of people are uncomfortable. I think 1:26:00.280 --> 1:26:03.240 some people just see too much of themselves, and like 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:06.360 I was speaking specifically to like liberal audiences, I think 1:26:06.680 --> 1:26:08.880 a lot of them are seeing something of themselves and 1:26:08.920 --> 1:26:10.720 they feel like they're being made fun of and they 1:26:10.720 --> 1:26:13.640 don't appreciate that. I'll just say I was I was 1:26:13.680 --> 1:26:16.640 at the Black Lives Matter protests and stuff. I was 1:26:16.680 --> 1:26:19.840 there and I don't feel that way. No, I don't 1:26:19.880 --> 1:26:23.000 think I was being made fun of. Yeah, I don't 1:26:23.040 --> 1:26:25.679 like Like I think that like that's kind of on 1:26:25.800 --> 1:26:28.400 you as a viewer for like expecting a movie to 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:32.040 like look directly in the camera and be like, I 1:26:32.160 --> 1:26:35.800 believe the same things you believe, you know, because that's 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:38.439 I mean, that's bad filmmaking, that's bad writing. 1:26:38.680 --> 1:26:41.439 Explains the exact type of communist that I am. 1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:44.120 Right, Yes, I'm the exact kind of leftist you are. 1:26:44.240 --> 1:26:46.160 We are on the same side and we're all laughing 1:26:46.240 --> 1:26:47.519 at the same things together. 1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:50.680 It's like, no, and if if your engagement with like 1:26:50.960 --> 1:26:54.519 social justice and anti police brutality protests is shallow enough 1:26:54.560 --> 1:26:57.479 to feel called out in a film like this, I 1:26:57.520 --> 1:27:00.200 think that is cause more for self reflection and for 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:01.679 while you participated in those things. 1:27:01.800 --> 1:27:02.840 Yeah, I agree. 1:27:03.280 --> 1:27:05.680 Not a fault of the film where it's not the 1:27:05.720 --> 1:27:09.200 film taking a stance against those things. I think it's 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:12.240 it's showing there's certain types of people who who participated 1:27:12.560 --> 1:27:17.160 in an extremely performative and like self serving manner, and 1:27:17.200 --> 1:27:20.200 like specifically the way that like the main like like 1:27:20.200 --> 1:27:23.360 like zoomer guy character who in the end becomes a 1:27:23.439 --> 1:27:27.440 right wing grifter. It's like it's I think this manifests 1:27:27.520 --> 1:27:31.400 this like like like perfectly, like I think his his character, 1:27:31.840 --> 1:27:34.760 I think is one of the funniest characters in the film. 1:27:35.560 --> 1:27:37.120 One of one of the best jokes is just him 1:27:37.200 --> 1:27:37.800 like liking a. 1:27:37.760 --> 1:27:39.879 Tweet googling Angela Davos. 1:27:41.640 --> 1:27:44.120 So I think that kind of stuff is more what 1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:46.200 it's talking about. And when you have those types of 1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:49.320 people being some of the most vocal people at these events, 1:27:49.560 --> 1:27:53.960 it contributes to this like kind of psychosis and that 1:27:54.160 --> 1:27:56.800 I think that's what the film is is specifically saying. 1:27:57.240 --> 1:27:59.720 I mean, did we forget that people like Sean King 1:27:59.760 --> 1:28:03.400 were like popular in twenty twenty. Look, if you see 1:28:03.439 --> 1:28:07.639 this and like the portrayal of like these liberal characters 1:28:07.640 --> 1:28:10.000 doesn't apply to you, I don't know why you're mad. 1:28:10.520 --> 1:28:13.000 I don't know why you would like look at that 1:28:13.040 --> 1:28:15.639 and be like, oh, they're making fun of me and everything. 1:28:15.640 --> 1:28:18.880 I believe because if it doesn't apply to you, then 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:22.040 it doesn't apply to you. And that was how I 1:28:22.120 --> 1:28:24.280 watched the film, Like I didn't feel like any of 1:28:24.320 --> 1:28:26.240 these characters applied to me. 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:28.479 So I don't really care. 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:32.880 And I guess a final point is like I haven't 1:28:33.080 --> 1:28:36.519 heard anyone else say this, but like Sheriff Joe at 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:39.639 the end of the film is I feel like it's 1:28:39.840 --> 1:28:45.240 very unsubtle symbolism to say that he's lobotomized. 1:28:45.960 --> 1:28:48.080 With if Ice stabbed in the in the head with 1:28:48.160 --> 1:28:48.639 a knife. 1:28:48.760 --> 1:28:50.280 That's what's happened to all of us in a way. 1:28:50.560 --> 1:28:54.479 And I mean, it's funny that Ariastra avoided a lot 1:28:54.520 --> 1:28:58.360 of mother related trauma up until the very very end 1:28:58.439 --> 1:28:59.320 of the movie. 1:28:59.120 --> 1:29:02.040 The very last he had to squeezed it in there. 1:29:02.640 --> 1:29:05.240 I know, I know which it was, I know, and 1:29:05.400 --> 1:29:08.920 he's being like raised in the bed and this kind 1:29:08.960 --> 1:29:11.840 of like angelic like ascension kind of thing. 1:29:12.479 --> 1:29:12.960 I don't know. 1:29:13.080 --> 1:29:17.120 I think that it's I think it's a pretty unsubtle 1:29:17.200 --> 1:29:20.880 and funny way of saying that, like there's really for 1:29:21.040 --> 1:29:25.640 some people after going fully there in like being insane, 1:29:26.200 --> 1:29:30.200 after like just plunging yourself into the heart of all 1:29:30.240 --> 1:29:35.719 of this like chaos and unreality, that the only thing 1:29:36.040 --> 1:29:39.360 that is going to save you is a lobotomy, if 1:29:39.400 --> 1:29:43.160 nothing else. I think that's very funny. So yeah, I 1:29:43.680 --> 1:29:47.439 enjoyed it a lot. I've wondered after about a week 1:29:47.520 --> 1:29:49.960 after I saw it, I was kicking it around in 1:29:49.960 --> 1:29:52.640 my head more and I was wondering, like, will this 1:29:52.720 --> 1:29:53.240 grow on me? 1:29:53.400 --> 1:29:54.439 Will this age well? 1:29:54.479 --> 1:29:56.800 And I think it definitely has grown on me the 1:29:57.439 --> 1:29:58.639 more I've thought about it. 1:29:58.720 --> 1:30:00.680 Same it has also grown me more over time. Once 1:30:00.720 --> 1:30:02.720 I got out of the theater, I was storting through 1:30:02.720 --> 1:30:04.400 a lot of different feelings about what I just saw 1:30:04.840 --> 1:30:08.439 and it has definitely grown me over time. Where can 1:30:08.560 --> 1:30:11.120 people find you and your work? 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:14.639 Yeah, so I'm a musician. You can go to Janie 1:30:14.680 --> 1:30:17.599 Danger dot com and find most of my links and stuff. 1:30:18.040 --> 1:30:20.519 I have a new song and video out. I'm working 1:30:20.600 --> 1:30:22.160 on a new album that should come out later this year. 1:30:22.200 --> 1:30:26.040 And if you're in the Atlanta area, I'm playing a 1:30:26.120 --> 1:30:29.680 show at the end of August at Bogs Social and 1:30:29.880 --> 1:30:35.200 the Mainline Music Festival in September. But if you follow 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:38.720 me on like Instagram or whatever, you should have all 1:30:38.800 --> 1:30:41.160 your updates there and you can follow me on letterbox 1:30:41.160 --> 1:30:41.920 at Janey Danger. 1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:43.880 So yeah, thanks for having me. 1:30:44.439 --> 1:30:44.960 Thank you Jane. 1:30:46.000 --> 1:30:47.880 That does it for us at it could happen here. 1:30:47.960 --> 1:30:51.360 Thanks once again to Jane Danger and Bailey new Poster. 1:30:51.520 --> 1:30:54.200 Follow them both online. They do great work. If you 1:30:54.240 --> 1:30:56.320 want some good music, listen to Jane. If you want 1:30:56.400 --> 1:30:58.800 some cool art, look up a Bailey new poster. 1:30:59.640 --> 1:30:59.800 Hope. 1:31:00.520 --> 1:31:03.200 I guess I will hopefully see you on the other 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:29.760 side of this post Woke Nightmare, Bye Bye, Welcome to 1:31:29.920 --> 1:31:33.040 It could happen here a show about things falling apart, 1:31:33.120 --> 1:31:37.200 and today the thing falling apart is the Internet. And 1:31:37.360 --> 1:31:41.639 today we have a special guest episode with Bridget Todd. 1:31:41.760 --> 1:31:44.840 Hello Bridget, So Garrett, it's kind of funny that we 1:31:44.880 --> 1:31:48.280 are talking just a few days after the Trump administration 1:31:48.360 --> 1:31:51.719 put out there Woke AI executive Order. 1:31:51.960 --> 1:31:54.160 Yes, I have not read this yet. I have to 1:31:54.280 --> 1:31:57.800 for next week's executive Disorder. I'm not looking forward to it. 1:31:58.920 --> 1:32:02.800 I liked that the Cool Zone team kind of sections 1:32:02.880 --> 1:32:06.040 off all the Trump federal nonsense so you don't have 1:32:06.080 --> 1:32:08.000 to be mired in it all the goddamn time. 1:32:08.520 --> 1:32:10.800 I still kind of am. I just schedule it throughout 1:32:10.800 --> 1:32:13.479 my week. I guess there's certain days where I have 1:32:13.560 --> 1:32:14.000 to do it. 1:32:14.320 --> 1:32:15.960 Yeah, you gotta pepper it in. You've got to pepper 1:32:15.960 --> 1:32:16.160 it in. 1:32:16.200 --> 1:32:19.479 Well, yeah, not to give you a spoiler for when 1:32:19.520 --> 1:32:23.640 you dive into it yourself, but it's all nonsense. Basically, 1:32:23.880 --> 1:32:27.240 the Trump administration is saying that right now, the biggest 1:32:27.280 --> 1:32:30.959 threat regarding AI is it being too woke and essentially 1:32:31.400 --> 1:32:35.280 telling folks who make AI tech leaders essentially to be 1:32:35.360 --> 1:32:38.080 more like Elon Musk and Grock and make sure that 1:32:38.160 --> 1:32:40.800 your AI models, the only AI models that we will 1:32:40.800 --> 1:32:44.160 accept in this country are the non woke ones, ones 1:32:44.200 --> 1:32:47.160 that don't incorporate DEI would love to know more about 1:32:47.200 --> 1:32:49.280 what he thinks that means, but that's a little preview 1:32:49.320 --> 1:32:49.639 for you. 1:32:49.960 --> 1:32:53.040 Fantastic, you know, seems like the most important issue facing 1:32:53.040 --> 1:32:53.960 our nationent right now. 1:32:54.640 --> 1:32:55.920 Definitely, definitely. 1:32:56.000 --> 1:32:59.839 And so it's funny that we're talking about AI because 1:33:00.560 --> 1:33:02.880 I don't know if you're on TikTok, but there have 1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:09.080 been these kind of shockingly racist AI generated videos all 1:33:09.120 --> 1:33:11.840 over TikTok, to the point where I would say that 1:33:11.840 --> 1:33:15.719 we are witnessing the revival of the Minstrel Show using 1:33:15.760 --> 1:33:18.000 AI on social media. This is not a claim I 1:33:18.080 --> 1:33:21.000 used lightly. That is how extreme some of this content is. 1:33:22.080 --> 1:33:24.200 I'm not on TikTok, but I think I've seen some 1:33:24.280 --> 1:33:30.440 of this content permeate across platforms, certainly on like Instagram 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:34.040 reels and even even bits of X the everything app 1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:38.200 I love that you call it that that's the full name. 1:33:40.080 --> 1:33:42.400 So for folks who don't know, I want to scround 1:33:42.439 --> 1:33:44.960 the conversation in what a minstrel show is. So the 1:33:44.960 --> 1:33:48.719 minstrel show was a incredibly popular form of American theater 1:33:48.840 --> 1:33:52.719 and entertainment in the nineteenth century, where mostly but not all, 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:56.599 white performers would wear black face makeup to make themselves 1:33:56.640 --> 1:34:01.080 look like These exaggerated racist versions of black people and 1:34:01.280 --> 1:34:06.600 essentially portray very racist stereotypes of black folks being lazy buffoons. 1:34:06.640 --> 1:34:10.799 And a common trope in these skits was black people 1:34:11.240 --> 1:34:14.800 trying and failing to gain American citizenship because at the time, 1:34:14.800 --> 1:34:18.040 black Americans did not have full citizenship, and so a 1:34:18.040 --> 1:34:20.920 big plotline would be like, Oh, we had to take 1:34:20.920 --> 1:34:23.200 a test for citizenship, but we were too stupid to 1:34:23.200 --> 1:34:25.240 figure it out. Are we spaced the data and overslept 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:28.840 because we're very lazy. When these shows would depict black women, 1:34:28.960 --> 1:34:30.920 we were often shown as what you might think up 1:34:30.960 --> 1:34:35.639 as like a sapphire caricature, which is rude, loud, malicious, stubborn, 1:34:35.680 --> 1:34:39.000 and overbearing, kind of like the angry black woman trope 1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:42.200 that you probably are familiar with in media today. So 1:34:42.680 --> 1:34:48.040 these skits were incredibly popular entertainment, but they also served 1:34:48.400 --> 1:34:52.000 the purpose of reaffirming political and social ideologies. 1:34:52.040 --> 1:34:54.120 And so, you know, the dominant. 1:34:53.640 --> 1:34:57.080 Way that people consumed media regarding Black people showed us 1:34:57.120 --> 1:35:01.880 as lazy, stupid, angry, loud, and important, not really able 1:35:01.920 --> 1:35:05.960 to conform to the dominant culture of like mainstream, hardworking 1:35:06.000 --> 1:35:10.280 white Americans. That is obviously an incredibly powerful tool to 1:35:10.600 --> 1:35:13.960 uphold and reaffirm the idea that black folks should not 1:35:14.000 --> 1:35:16.800 be given full citizenship, should not be given full rights, 1:35:17.000 --> 1:35:20.880 cannot be you know, integrated into polite white society. And 1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:24.000 it almost kind of became this for their own good 1:35:24.160 --> 1:35:28.640 attitude that provided like a polite justification for things like segregation. 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:30.400 Well like, oh, well, you know. 1:35:30.400 --> 1:35:32.599 I've seen in minstrel shows that black folks are very 1:35:32.720 --> 1:35:35.400 lazy and stupid, So it's an as for their own 1:35:35.479 --> 1:35:38.080 good that we treat them like shit in society, do 1:35:38.200 --> 1:35:38.680 you feel me? 1:35:38.880 --> 1:35:42.520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a sort of like infantilization exactly. 1:35:43.120 --> 1:35:45.840 And so even though the minstrel show did die out, 1:35:46.120 --> 1:35:48.240 I would argue that we are kind of seeing a 1:35:48.280 --> 1:35:52.000 little bit of a comeback using AI in the digital realm, 1:35:52.160 --> 1:35:55.120 and just like the minstrual shows of yesteryear were used 1:35:55.160 --> 1:35:59.120 to affirm political and social ideologies under the guise of 1:35:59.280 --> 1:36:01.800 just being in a payment or just being jokes or 1:36:01.840 --> 1:36:04.520 just being funny. I really think it's not a coincidence 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:08.439 that we're also seeing the rise of digital blackface, where 1:36:08.479 --> 1:36:11.839 non black creators are using AI to create these viral 1:36:12.120 --> 1:36:15.519 racist skits that are steeped in black stereotypes, and that 1:36:15.560 --> 1:36:18.320 they're really taking off all over social media today. 1:36:18.760 --> 1:36:21.439 That sounds not fun to hear about, but I'm excited 1:36:21.479 --> 1:36:23.160 for you to explain it to me. 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:28.240 Yes, So I will say, initially, the first iteration of 1:36:28.240 --> 1:36:31.559 one of these videos that I saw was not really racist. 1:36:31.600 --> 1:36:34.320 It was made by a black creator, I think, trying 1:36:34.360 --> 1:36:37.280 to use AI to create sort of humorous skits. But 1:36:37.400 --> 1:36:40.960 when that first video took off, people on TikTok started 1:36:41.040 --> 1:36:44.280 using AI to create more and more extreme, more and 1:36:44.360 --> 1:36:47.960 more racist iterations of these kinds of videos, which is 1:36:47.960 --> 1:36:50.799 what we're seeing today. So I will play a little 1:36:50.840 --> 1:36:53.479 snippet of an example for you. What's up, bitch, is 1:36:53.479 --> 1:36:55.400 this bigfoot one hand the baddest bitch in the woods? 1:36:55.400 --> 1:36:57.559 Part time cryptic, full time problem. Don't follow me if 1:36:57.560 --> 1:36:58.760 you scared a please. 1:36:59.600 --> 1:37:02.479 So, but this is a TikTok that got over two 1:37:02.479 --> 1:37:05.879 million views, and it basically it uses AI to generate 1:37:05.920 --> 1:37:13.000 this black woman stereotypical version of Bigfoot, and this account 1:37:13.080 --> 1:37:16.479 is so popular that has generated so many copycats, Like 1:37:16.560 --> 1:37:19.639 this is a format that has really hit with TikTok. 1:37:20.240 --> 1:37:23.320 There also is another kind of bucket of these. 1:37:23.120 --> 1:37:27.040 That people call slave talk, where it uses AI to 1:37:27.120 --> 1:37:31.479 sort of reimagine enslaved people on plantations if they had 1:37:31.760 --> 1:37:34.599 social media and we're doing vlogs and so a lot 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:37.760 of those videos were taken down by TikTok, which is 1:37:37.840 --> 1:37:41.040 I think good, but essentially it would reimagine these AI 1:37:41.080 --> 1:37:45.840 in generated enslaved people basically saying like, oh, well, yeah, 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:47.840 I do have to work out here in the cotton fields, 1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:49.679 but at least I'm going to get meals. At least 1:37:49.680 --> 1:37:53.000 I have a roof over my head, essentially really affirming 1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:55.679 the idea that, like slavery, wasn't that bad. 1:37:56.240 --> 1:37:58.200 One of the more heinous. 1:37:57.880 --> 1:38:00.479 Examples that I saw of these that was removed from 1:38:00.479 --> 1:38:04.960 TikTok was a TikTok shop sponsored video that showed an 1:38:04.960 --> 1:38:08.280 AI generated enslaved person working in the fields wearing a 1:38:08.320 --> 1:38:11.599 solar powered hat with a sand in it, and basically 1:38:11.640 --> 1:38:14.160 he was like, Oh, this work in the field would 1:38:14.200 --> 1:38:16.519 be so horrible if I did not have this hat. 1:38:16.760 --> 1:38:17.920 And then there's a little. 1:38:17.640 --> 1:38:20.040 Link to the TikTok shop and you can buy the 1:38:20.080 --> 1:38:23.759 actual hat, which is just some really dystopian awful shit. 1:38:24.240 --> 1:38:27.320 No, that is like quite literally, it's like evocative of 1:38:27.400 --> 1:38:30.680 like cyberpunk tropes that people I would assume would not 1:38:30.760 --> 1:38:34.000 want to use it due to fears of insensitivity, but 1:38:34.200 --> 1:38:37.160 it's just on your phone, like as like a real thing. 1:38:37.680 --> 1:38:40.240 Yeah, I completely agree, and I love that comparison. 1:38:40.600 --> 1:38:43.160 And I think, like I would imagine if I were 1:38:43.240 --> 1:38:45.600 running a TikTok shop that using. 1:38:45.360 --> 1:38:47.160 The AI generated image of. 1:38:47.160 --> 1:38:49.800 An enslaved person, I would think like, oh, well, this 1:38:49.880 --> 1:38:52.120 is certainly not something that I would use to like 1:38:52.280 --> 1:38:54.120 sell some cheap fan hat. 1:38:54.560 --> 1:38:56.280 But I mean, I think it is exactly what you're 1:38:56.320 --> 1:38:56.880 saying that. 1:38:57.360 --> 1:39:01.679 I think that the extreme quality of these videos, people 1:39:01.680 --> 1:39:04.240 are just like, well, it'll get views and then I'll 1:39:04.240 --> 1:39:06.439 get more eyeballs on my TikTok shop. 1:39:06.600 --> 1:39:08.040 I don't think there's any kind of sure. 1:39:08.160 --> 1:39:11.360 Yeah, no, it's a very gross way of doing like 1:39:11.600 --> 1:39:16.360 outrage farming. For engagement, I guess, like because surely they 1:39:16.400 --> 1:39:18.240 know that these are not going to like go over 1:39:18.680 --> 1:39:20.720 easy like. I think a part of part of this 1:39:20.880 --> 1:39:24.439 is generating some degree of like attention based on it 1:39:24.520 --> 1:39:28.320 being offensive or extremely gross and knowing that people will 1:39:28.320 --> 1:39:31.960 like comment things of that nature exactly. 1:39:32.040 --> 1:39:35.160 And it's funny that you mentioned that, because the AI 1:39:35.800 --> 1:39:38.160 component of this is sort of what makes this novel 1:39:38.200 --> 1:39:39.519 and new. But that kind of thing has been all 1:39:39.560 --> 1:39:42.599 over social media for the longest time. Sure I remember 1:39:43.040 --> 1:39:47.000 how big stuff like skit culture was on TikTok. And 1:39:47.479 --> 1:39:50.200 I don't mean skits like Saturday Night Live or Portlandia. 1:39:50.280 --> 1:39:52.439 I mean skits where they are trying to get you 1:39:52.479 --> 1:39:55.200 to think this is somebody's cell phone footage of something 1:39:55.240 --> 1:39:57.360 that happened, but really it's like, well that those are 1:39:57.360 --> 1:40:00.000 two actors. And there there was a type of these 1:40:00.040 --> 1:40:03.080 skits that would really tick off on TikTok where it 1:40:03.200 --> 1:40:06.760 was purporting to be oh, this is a parent who 1:40:06.840 --> 1:40:09.559 is going off on a trans teacher for trying to 1:40:09.600 --> 1:40:12.160 indoctrinate their kid, and all the comments would be like 1:40:12.200 --> 1:40:14.320 good for them, good for that mom, and then the 1:40:14.320 --> 1:40:16.120 screen flips and it's like, oh, well, the woman you 1:40:16.160 --> 1:40:18.759 were just telling me is the trans teacher, Now she's 1:40:18.960 --> 1:40:19.760 the mom. 1:40:19.600 --> 1:40:22.759 Who was the next video? Yes, exactly, exactly. 1:40:23.200 --> 1:40:25.439 No, I like the ones that are set on airplanes 1:40:25.479 --> 1:40:27.680 where they all use the same airplane set. Yes, and 1:40:27.720 --> 1:40:31.960 they get into like fake fights on airplanes using the 1:40:32.000 --> 1:40:34.120 same like five actors playing different roles. 1:40:34.280 --> 1:40:36.840 Yeah, and then if you look carefully in the background, 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:41.080 you start thinking, well, airplanes don't have those strip led 1:40:41.280 --> 1:40:42.920 lights that you can buy on Amazon. 1:40:43.360 --> 1:40:45.120 Does not actually the. 1:40:45.120 --> 1:40:47.799 TikTok lights and the hallways like five feet wide. 1:40:48.880 --> 1:40:53.439 Yeah, exactly, And listen, I am not above getting taken 1:40:53.479 --> 1:40:56.720 in by those kinds of skits. And I guess I 1:40:56.760 --> 1:40:59.639 don't love the idea that someone would be dedicating energy 1:40:59.680 --> 1:41:02.640 and brain space to getting upset about a set of 1:41:02.640 --> 1:41:04.320 circumstances that never really happened. 1:41:04.400 --> 1:41:06.960 But it's the Internet. Come on, that's that's like, that's 1:41:06.960 --> 1:41:07.879 half of the Internet. 1:41:08.040 --> 1:41:11.040 Yes, Like, you know, I don't love it. 1:41:11.080 --> 1:41:12.960 But when the stakes so, like when the stakes are 1:41:13.040 --> 1:41:15.879 low and it's just like a random fight on an airplane, fine, 1:41:15.960 --> 1:41:18.320 when the stakes are higher and it's like, this is 1:41:18.320 --> 1:41:22.599 a skit meant to like attack or demonize trans people, 1:41:22.680 --> 1:41:24.920 queer people, black people, that's where I'm like, well, what 1:41:24.960 --> 1:41:26.000 are we really doing here? 1:41:36.240 --> 1:41:38.160 I think whether or not this. 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:41.160 Kind of content, like when it's AI generated, we're looking 1:41:41.200 --> 1:41:44.400 at things that never actually happened. Even though these these 1:41:44.439 --> 1:41:48.120 circumstances in these situations never really happened, they still very 1:41:48.200 --> 1:41:51.680 much affirm the worldview of the people who are consuming it, right, 1:41:51.760 --> 1:41:54.799 And so if you are consuming a skit in involving 1:41:54.960 --> 1:41:59.360 whether it's human actors or AI generated black people, if 1:41:59.400 --> 1:42:03.679 that skit reaffirms your worldview that these people cannot be trusted, 1:42:03.880 --> 1:42:06.200 these people are bad in some way, it kind of 1:42:06.200 --> 1:42:07.479 doesn't matter if it's real. 1:42:07.400 --> 1:42:09.719 Or not, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, totally. 1:42:10.200 --> 1:42:14.280 That's like the concept of like hyperreality, where you're trying 1:42:14.280 --> 1:42:17.559 to like blend the Internet's exaggerated version of reality with 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:21.720 our physical, lived existence, and how these things start combining 1:42:21.800 --> 1:42:24.280 into each other to create this idea of reality in 1:42:24.280 --> 1:42:26.040 our heads that's more real than it actually is, to 1:42:26.040 --> 1:42:28.080 the point where we take things on the screen to 1:42:28.120 --> 1:42:30.960 be more accurately reflective of what's going on in the 1:42:31.000 --> 1:42:33.040 world than what we actually experience in our day to 1:42:33.080 --> 1:42:35.080 day lives. And so much of that concept is what 1:42:35.240 --> 1:42:39.120 drives like American like reactionary politics exactly. 1:42:39.240 --> 1:42:42.680 And when you actually go into the comments of these videos, 1:42:42.920 --> 1:42:46.640 which in my opinion are very clearly AI generated. 1:42:46.400 --> 1:42:48.280 People are in the comments. 1:42:47.680 --> 1:42:52.599 Well, I mean that easy for you to say. Someone 1:42:52.600 --> 1:42:55.800 who spends their time like researching what's going on and 1:42:55.880 --> 1:42:58.280 on the internet. I'm not sure if Mema and pop 1:42:58.320 --> 1:43:01.040 are finding these videos to be like, well, this one's 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:02.560 obviously AI generated. 1:43:03.040 --> 1:43:05.479 No, And that's my point is like I don't even 1:43:05.520 --> 1:43:07.160 think they're thinking about it that way, and I don't 1:43:07.200 --> 1:43:09.559 think they care that it's not real. In the comments 1:43:09.600 --> 1:43:12.599 of these videos, it'll be a video, an AI generated 1:43:12.680 --> 1:43:16.280 video of a black woman behaving in this very stereotypical 1:43:16.360 --> 1:43:19.880 racist way, and the comments will say they're all like that, 1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:21.920 and it kind of misses the point of like, well, 1:43:21.960 --> 1:43:25.120 there's there's no they in this video because it's AI generated. 1:43:25.200 --> 1:43:27.360 This is just a computer puppet. This isn't real. 1:43:27.640 --> 1:43:31.200 Like, yeah, I completely agree, But I think when you 1:43:31.360 --> 1:43:34.760 see something online, whether it's obviously AI generated or not, 1:43:35.240 --> 1:43:38.200 if it reaffirms your worldview, it kind of doesn't matter. 1:43:38.240 --> 1:43:40.880 It's the same reason why when there's like. 1:43:40.920 --> 1:43:44.559 Four legged veterans in AI slop holding a sign that 1:43:44.600 --> 1:43:48.360 says everyone forgot about me, wish me happy birthday. 1:43:48.280 --> 1:43:50.439 Three billion likes on Facebook. 1:43:52.000 --> 1:43:54.000 I mean, what do you think is going on there? 1:43:54.040 --> 1:43:55.520 I find that so fascinating. 1:43:56.040 --> 1:43:56.439 Oh. 1:43:56.520 --> 1:44:00.600 I mean, I'm not a psychologist, but I don't know. 1:44:00.720 --> 1:44:03.759 I think it isn't just the simple reaffirming of someone's 1:44:03.760 --> 1:44:06.519 previously held view people are very receptive to. And we 1:44:06.560 --> 1:44:08.320 even see this with like you know, with like fake 1:44:08.400 --> 1:44:11.720 news headlines, right, and people might point out that this 1:44:11.760 --> 1:44:15.160 story isn't isn't actually real. And when people are confronted 1:44:15.320 --> 1:44:18.280 with this idea of that they've been tricked by unreality, 1:44:18.280 --> 1:44:21.360 they'll be like, no, maybe this one isn't real, but 1:44:21.479 --> 1:44:23.800 it could be real. And that's and that's what really 1:44:23.880 --> 1:44:27.200 matters is that this this feels true, not that it 1:44:27.280 --> 1:44:30.000 is true, but the fact that I feel it resonating 1:44:30.200 --> 1:44:33.880 is actually more important than any kind of physical trueness 1:44:34.040 --> 1:44:37.120 out inside, like the flesh world like that. That that 1:44:37.360 --> 1:44:40.080 is honestly that that matters far less than how it 1:44:40.160 --> 1:44:43.240 impacts how I feel and how how it reflects the 1:44:43.240 --> 1:44:44.120 world as I see it. 1:44:44.560 --> 1:44:47.000 So I did an episode of my podcast or oar 1:44:47.040 --> 1:44:49.759 Norgles on the Internet all about the sort of weird 1:44:49.920 --> 1:44:55.800 economy of AI generated disinformation, essentially fan fiction that came 1:44:55.840 --> 1:44:57.360 out of the trial of Sean P. 1:44:57.479 --> 1:44:57.960 Didy co. 1:44:58.160 --> 1:44:58.360 Oh. 1:44:58.479 --> 1:45:00.519 That sounds incredibly upsetting. 1:45:00.840 --> 1:45:02.840 It was so upsetting, And the reason I looked into 1:45:02.920 --> 1:45:05.160 it is because I have to be honest and say, 1:45:05.720 --> 1:45:07.920 one of these AI generated videos got me. 1:45:08.080 --> 1:45:08.240 Right. 1:45:08.280 --> 1:45:11.679 It was a video that claimed that the late musician 1:45:11.960 --> 1:45:15.559 Prince was able to testify in Ditty's trial from the 1:45:15.720 --> 1:45:18.360 Beyond the Grave, and that they played a video that 1:45:18.439 --> 1:45:21.960 Prince made warning everybody that didty is this bad guy? Right? 1:45:22.240 --> 1:45:24.439 I am probably the world's biggest Prince fans. Well, I 1:45:24.479 --> 1:45:27.000 was like Prince always like. It got me and it 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:29.800 totally affirmed what I want to be true. 1:45:30.000 --> 1:45:30.960 But it was all a lie. 1:45:31.560 --> 1:45:34.040 It's compelling, it's trying to like, it's trying to impact 1:45:34.040 --> 1:45:36.720 you emotionally, especially for people who who like Prince, who 1:45:36.760 --> 1:45:40.599 who miss miss Prince. This could be emotionally compelling, and like, 1:45:40.600 --> 1:45:43.599 that's that's what they're like intentionally going after. I think 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:46.040 that's that's why something like that could work so well. 1:45:46.360 --> 1:45:46.960 It got me. 1:45:47.280 --> 1:45:50.480 And when I looked into kind of how these videos 1:45:50.560 --> 1:45:54.760 are cranked out on YouTube, so basically any celebrity that 1:45:54.800 --> 1:45:58.360 you can imagine. There is an AI generated video on 1:45:58.439 --> 1:46:00.800 YouTube saying that they were some how involved in the 1:46:00.840 --> 1:46:03.679 Didty trial. And what's so interesting is in the comments 1:46:03.680 --> 1:46:06.879 of these videos that are again pretty obviously AI generated 1:46:06.960 --> 1:46:09.320 or not real, and even the description of the YouTube 1:46:09.360 --> 1:46:11.799 account will say this is just for entertainment. 1:46:11.880 --> 1:46:13.720 Nothing here is supposed to be true. People won't read 1:46:13.800 --> 1:46:14.120 that part. 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:18.639 Basically, if you've ever had a bad feeling about a celebrity, 1:46:18.640 --> 1:46:21.600 which who haven't totally see, there's a video that that 1:46:21.680 --> 1:46:23.720 affirms with that worldview that is like, well, did you 1:46:23.760 --> 1:46:25.679 know they were involved in the ditty frea comps? 1:46:25.720 --> 1:46:26.960 And everybody's like, I knew it. 1:46:27.280 --> 1:46:29.840 That person always gave me the ac can Fine, I 1:46:29.920 --> 1:46:32.080 knew it. I was smart enough to pick it up. 1:46:32.120 --> 1:46:35.240 Not everyone else was smart enough, but I was. And 1:46:35.320 --> 1:46:38.080 that's that's a whole other emotional feeling that it's being 1:46:38.080 --> 1:46:41.519 targeted by these like AI slop creators where they're trying 1:46:41.520 --> 1:46:44.960 to yeah, like affirm people's like like narcissism about their 1:46:45.000 --> 1:46:47.600 ability to judge the moral character of strangers. 1:46:48.040 --> 1:46:51.920 That is so it because the people that celebrities they choose, 1:46:52.240 --> 1:46:54.720 it's people that maybe you would have like, I have 1:46:54.760 --> 1:46:56.839 no real reason for this, but I hate Kevin Hart 1:46:57.040 --> 1:46:59.519 and so in the videos, don't even. 1:46:59.400 --> 1:47:00.960 Ask me why. I don't even have a real reason. 1:47:00.960 --> 1:47:02.479 I just don't like him. Well, he is short. 1:47:02.640 --> 1:47:03.280 He is short. 1:47:03.600 --> 1:47:06.120 There you go love to my short kings. 1:47:06.160 --> 1:47:07.280 One of the reasons I don't like him. 1:47:07.280 --> 1:47:09.479 This is just me speckel, Like, he just does a 1:47:09.520 --> 1:47:11.599 lot of ads and you can't get on social media 1:47:11.600 --> 1:47:14.479 without his cryptocurrency ad, his draft kings ad. 1:47:14.479 --> 1:47:17.920 I just like hate seeing it. Sure in the AI. 1:47:17.760 --> 1:47:20.000 Generated video claiming that he was mixed up in the 1:47:20.040 --> 1:47:22.920 Diddy Trials, every comment is like I knew it. I 1:47:23.000 --> 1:47:26.640 always hated him, And that's affirming. People like feeling like 1:47:26.680 --> 1:47:29.040 they knew something that other people didn't see, and they 1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:29.920 knew it early on. 1:47:30.400 --> 1:47:32.559 Well, And I think what's something that's similar to this 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:35.559 that's happening right now is there's a massive media campaign 1:47:35.720 --> 1:47:40.240 right now against Pedro Pascal with with AI generated videos 1:47:40.240 --> 1:47:43.559 of him like touching his female co stars. And these 1:47:43.720 --> 1:47:47.120 these videos have been have been digitally altered, and it's 1:47:47.160 --> 1:47:50.200 in service of this this big harassment campaign against someone 1:47:50.200 --> 1:47:54.320 who's like very vocally Protrance writes, there's other possible reasons 1:47:54.320 --> 1:47:58.120 for why he's he's being targeted by these videos. But no, Similarly, 1:47:58.160 --> 1:48:01.120 it's trying to create this like ick around Petro Pascal 1:48:01.560 --> 1:48:04.200 using a altern media and it's gaining a lot of 1:48:04.240 --> 1:48:06.880 traction right now, and it's something people need to be 1:48:07.000 --> 1:48:09.640 like very very cautious of. But yeah, it's trying to 1:48:09.640 --> 1:48:12.160 affirm whatever. Maybe you, for some reason have never liked 1:48:12.160 --> 1:48:14.800 Paedro Pascal. I can't imagine why. But if you find 1:48:14.800 --> 1:48:18.000 a video like this talking about how he's using a 1:48:18.000 --> 1:48:22.200 social anxiety diagnosis to inappropriately touch his co stars, do 1:48:22.240 --> 1:48:23.080 you like I knew it. 1:48:23.200 --> 1:48:23.840 I knew it. 1:48:23.920 --> 1:48:27.160 I never trusted Pedro Pascal, and I don't like it. 1:48:27.280 --> 1:48:29.360 He's pro trans writes, and you're like, there you go. 1:48:29.439 --> 1:48:32.040 They've completely got you. They've been able to like automate 1:48:32.080 --> 1:48:36.599 and monetize internet hate campaigns against people that you don't know. 1:48:37.240 --> 1:48:41.000 Garrett, Literally, right before you and I got on this episode, 1:48:41.280 --> 1:48:43.880 I saw a video on Reddit and it's a scene 1:48:43.880 --> 1:48:46.240 from an episode of Always Sunny where one of the 1:48:46.320 --> 1:48:50.439 guys is like essentially lifting d the female lead up 1:48:50.479 --> 1:48:54.040 by her crotch, and the caption was Pedro Pascal when 1:48:54.040 --> 1:48:56.479 he feels anxiety. Next to me you got a co star, 1:48:56.600 --> 1:48:58.639 And I remember thinking, like, this is such a weird 1:48:58.680 --> 1:48:59.320 fucking video. 1:48:59.360 --> 1:49:02.160 But what order of the Internet have I wandered into? 1:49:02.360 --> 1:49:04.960 But I didn't. I did not know that there are 1:49:05.000 --> 1:49:07.800 horses trying to make me get the ick about Pedro. 1:49:07.560 --> 1:49:12.000 Pascal Coincidentally, he is someone who speaks up for LGBTQ rights, 1:49:12.320 --> 1:49:13.559 you know, progressive causes. 1:49:14.160 --> 1:49:17.000 Of course, yeah, no, it's it's it's a it's a 1:49:17.040 --> 1:49:18.880 it's a huge thing sweeping the internet right now. 1:49:19.240 --> 1:49:22.680 And I think it really goes to show how kind 1:49:22.720 --> 1:49:26.240 of easily we can be manipulated using digital content, whether 1:49:26.280 --> 1:49:29.479 it's AI generated or AI manipulated or not. Like our 1:49:30.320 --> 1:49:34.200 understandings of the sort of general temperature of what's going 1:49:34.240 --> 1:49:36.720 on are so so much more tenuous than we think, 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:39.120 and so much more easily manipulated than we realize. 1:49:39.439 --> 1:49:42.439 No, absolutely, no one is immune to propaganda. That is 1:49:42.479 --> 1:49:43.880 a great way of putting it. 1:49:54.600 --> 1:49:58.400 I'm happy that you used the word propaganda, because that's 1:49:58.400 --> 1:50:03.280 what I really do think the AI generated essentially menstrual 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:07.200 show videos are. I think it's not a surprise that 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:10.400 we are seeing them the same way that back in 1:50:10.439 --> 1:50:13.479 the day menstrel shows were very popular at a time 1:50:13.479 --> 1:50:17.400 when there was an active campaign of attacking black folks 1:50:17.400 --> 1:50:19.400 and saying they weren't smart enough and did not deserve 1:50:19.439 --> 1:50:21.920 full citizenship, did not deserve rights, all of that. 1:50:22.120 --> 1:50:24.639 I think we're basically seeing the same thing today. 1:50:25.040 --> 1:50:27.439 I think the rise of popularity of this kind of 1:50:27.439 --> 1:50:31.040 content is against the backdrop of a very real attack 1:50:31.160 --> 1:50:34.600 on marginalized people from this administration. You know, there was 1:50:34.680 --> 1:50:38.320 just this very medipiece in Republica about how Trump and 1:50:38.479 --> 1:50:44.160 Musk their goage stuff really was an attack on black women, specifically, 1:50:44.200 --> 1:50:47.160 like black women with stable federal jobs totally, and that 1:50:47.360 --> 1:50:49.600 these attacks essentially it was like you were able to 1:50:49.640 --> 1:50:53.240 smear black women career civil servants as you know, they 1:50:53.240 --> 1:50:56.599 were DEI hires, they were undeserving of these jobs, they 1:50:56.640 --> 1:51:00.200 really just deserve to be fired. And you know, really 1:51:00.640 --> 1:51:04.080 black women just became these easy targets for an administration 1:51:04.280 --> 1:51:06.720 hostile to marginal life people. So if we have all 1:51:06.760 --> 1:51:09.840 of that happening against the rise of this form of 1:51:09.880 --> 1:51:13.560 digital media that is using AI to reaffirm these stereotypes 1:51:13.560 --> 1:51:16.200 about black women, that we aren't able to behave ourselves 1:51:16.200 --> 1:51:18.639 in polite society, cannot figure out a way to solve 1:51:18.680 --> 1:51:21.840 conflicts without resorting to violence, are loud and obnoxious. Then 1:51:21.880 --> 1:51:25.040 when you hear about real life human black women getting 1:51:25.080 --> 1:51:27.640 pushed out of their employment or attacked by this administration, 1:51:28.040 --> 1:51:30.479 you might think, well, maybe it's for the best, because 1:51:30.479 --> 1:51:32.800 they're not suited for that work anyway. Because the kind 1:51:32.840 --> 1:51:35.439 of content that I have been consuming on TikTok and 1:51:35.520 --> 1:51:38.519 I think it just reaffirms this world of view that 1:51:38.680 --> 1:51:43.360 real life human black folks are not self actualized human beings. 1:51:43.360 --> 1:51:46.440 We're just a collection of tropes and stereotypes and caricatures. 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:51.040 I don't know what to say there, but I agree, yes. 1:51:51.240 --> 1:51:55.760 And I do think there's a kind of platform accountability 1:51:55.840 --> 1:51:56.719 question and all this. 1:51:56.720 --> 1:51:58.200 Because oh, most certainly. 1:51:58.360 --> 1:51:58.719 Yeah. 1:51:58.760 --> 1:52:01.880 Like, the reason why we're seeing the rise of these 1:52:01.960 --> 1:52:05.120 videos is because of the recent introduction of Google's vo 1:52:05.120 --> 1:52:07.240 three creator. It came out about a month ago and 1:52:07.320 --> 1:52:11.280 it's Google's latest AI video generation model, and essentially it's 1:52:11.280 --> 1:52:14.839 designed to create these realistic looking videos from text prompts. 1:52:15.160 --> 1:52:17.000 And the thing that kind of makes it a step 1:52:17.040 --> 1:52:21.240 above is that you can incorporate things like synchronized audio, dialogue, 1:52:21.280 --> 1:52:25.120 sound effect music. It is really taken off with creators 1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:27.760 online who are using this tool to create everything from 1:52:28.000 --> 1:52:32.000 these AI skits to AI influencers to AI muckbangs you 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:33.759 know where people eat tons and tons of food. 1:52:33.960 --> 1:52:35.560 Oh, this is so upsetting. 1:52:36.280 --> 1:52:36.960 It is. 1:52:37.160 --> 1:52:40.080 And then like another kind of offshoot of this is 1:52:40.360 --> 1:52:44.080 you have people who use VO three to make content 1:52:44.240 --> 1:52:46.599 like this and they get tons of us and then 1:52:46.640 --> 1:52:48.880 they're like, oh, if you want to learn how to 1:52:49.000 --> 1:52:52.040 make this yourself, pay me and I'll teach you how 1:52:52.040 --> 1:52:52.639 to do it too. 1:52:52.680 --> 1:52:55.000 So it's like there's always a weird. 1:52:54.800 --> 1:52:58.080 Like MLM grift in there somewhere that is the content 1:52:58.120 --> 1:53:01.400 creator classic is like a mid tier influencer. We're not 1:53:01.439 --> 1:53:03.719 like that good at what they do, but is able 1:53:03.760 --> 1:53:07.320 to supplement their income by offering courses to people to 1:53:07.439 --> 1:53:11.680 teach them how to make similarly some subpar content. And 1:53:11.760 --> 1:53:14.719 it's interesting that we've reached the full AI automation aspect 1:53:14.720 --> 1:53:16.240 of this, right. This used to be a big thing 1:53:16.280 --> 1:53:19.240 among like YouTubers. I was not aware that this is 1:53:19.240 --> 1:53:23.479 now a thing among like AI TikTok influencers, but that 1:53:23.520 --> 1:53:25.919 makes sense because this is like the easiest thing to automate, 1:53:26.000 --> 1:53:28.040 So of course there's going to be like an influx 1:53:28.080 --> 1:53:31.639 of people trying to make a quick buck on racist 1:53:31.680 --> 1:53:32.599 AI slop. 1:53:33.160 --> 1:53:36.519 It makes me so sad, And I do think I 1:53:36.560 --> 1:53:41.400 mean when I guess I would be curious how Google 1:53:41.560 --> 1:53:43.720 feels about the fact that, like, this is what their 1:53:44.240 --> 1:53:45.400 tool is being used for. 1:53:45.640 --> 1:53:45.840 Right. 1:53:46.439 --> 1:53:49.160 I wonder like if leaders have a sense that this 1:53:49.240 --> 1:53:51.280 is harmful, not just harmful to black women like me 1:53:51.479 --> 1:53:53.679 who are depicted in this kind of content, but harmful 1:53:53.720 --> 1:53:56.160 for the Internet as a whole. It makes the Internet 1:53:56.200 --> 1:54:00.040 experience worse for everybody. And I guess, I guess I 1:54:00.040 --> 1:54:03.360 would imagine that like Google probably doesn't care that this 1:54:03.479 --> 1:54:05.880 is what their their technology is being used for. Like 1:54:05.880 --> 1:54:07.800 if I had a direct line to some darpachi, the 1:54:07.800 --> 1:54:10.040 head of Google, I would show him these clips and say, like, 1:54:10.200 --> 1:54:12.920 is this what you had in mind for VO three 1:54:13.120 --> 1:54:14.840 or is this a misuse of this tool that you 1:54:15.000 --> 1:54:16.719 just put out and unleashed on all of us? 1:54:17.000 --> 1:54:19.839 Yeah, And are you going to dedicate some like millions 1:54:19.840 --> 1:54:23.880 of dollars of research into stopping this from happening? No, 1:54:24.280 --> 1:54:26.600 of course not, Like they're not going to build comprehensive 1:54:26.640 --> 1:54:29.320 tools that prevent platform abuse like this, Like that's not 1:54:29.360 --> 1:54:31.800 going to happen as long as people are using it, 1:54:32.240 --> 1:54:34.200 and then people are hearing about it and it's spreading, 1:54:34.280 --> 1:54:36.480 like that's that's what they want. If if there happens 1:54:36.520 --> 1:54:38.760 to be offensive use cases of it, if anything, that's 1:54:38.800 --> 1:54:40.000 good because that drives engagement. 1:54:40.000 --> 1:54:41.280 It gets people to know about the product. 1:54:41.560 --> 1:54:43.760 And I think that's another one of the reasons why 1:54:44.320 --> 1:54:48.160 Trump's you know, executive orders on AI. 1:54:48.040 --> 1:54:50.000 That we saw early AIY. 1:54:50.200 --> 1:54:52.280 I mean, like, I will be the first person to 1:54:52.320 --> 1:54:55.640 admit that we have very deep problems when it comes 1:54:55.680 --> 1:54:59.280 to AI. Anybody who listens to Better offline knows this, 1:54:59.440 --> 1:55:00.839 Like the is not a secret. 1:55:01.160 --> 1:55:02.480 AI is often biased. 1:55:02.480 --> 1:55:05.280 AI is often wrong because it is trained on us 1:55:05.400 --> 1:55:07.680 humans the bias little bucks that we are right, and 1:55:07.720 --> 1:55:10.640 so that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. I also 1:55:11.240 --> 1:55:13.040 will say, like, some of the solutions of how we 1:55:13.120 --> 1:55:15.960 fix that are complex and not super simple. 1:55:16.120 --> 1:55:18.040 But what Trump's executive order, he. 1:55:18.040 --> 1:55:22.080 Basically is signing an order saying all AI must be objective. 1:55:22.120 --> 1:55:22.880 It must it must. 1:55:22.720 --> 1:55:26.320 Adhere to the objective truth of the United States. And 1:55:26.360 --> 1:55:27.440 it's like, well, who determines that? 1:55:27.680 --> 1:55:31.879 Who who determines the objective truth of the United States? 1:55:32.160 --> 1:55:32.880 The President? 1:55:33.320 --> 1:55:36.400 I mean, if you ask Trump, yes, him and I 1:55:36.400 --> 1:55:39.280 guess that's the thing that pisses me off, is that 1:55:39.480 --> 1:55:43.720 there actually are complex issues and problems when it comes 1:55:43.760 --> 1:55:47.600 to AI, but this executive order just is like, Oh, 1:55:47.680 --> 1:55:49.720 the problem is is that it's woke. The solution is 1:55:49.800 --> 1:55:52.600 me signing an executive order saying no woke in AI, 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:56.080 and rather than getting any kind of actual solution or 1:55:56.120 --> 1:55:58.760 having the conversation, we just get fucking nonsense. 1:55:59.640 --> 1:55:59.680 You. 1:55:59.800 --> 1:56:02.840 No, it is worrying for multiple levels, including the fact 1:56:02.920 --> 1:56:06.880 that the president thinks he's the orbiter of objective truth 1:56:07.320 --> 1:56:09.600 and it thinks he can legislate that or thinks he 1:56:09.680 --> 1:56:14.640 can executive order that into being by either benefiting or 1:56:14.680 --> 1:56:17.880 punishing tech companies who follow his policies. 1:56:18.160 --> 1:56:21.040 Yeah, I mean spoiler alert for that executive order. That's 1:56:21.080 --> 1:56:22.560 exactly what he's saying. 1:56:23.360 --> 1:56:27.320 And you used the word propaganda earlier, and that really 1:56:27.440 --> 1:56:29.360 is if there was like a thesis statement of what 1:56:29.400 --> 1:56:31.880 I wanted to say in this episode, is that that 1:56:32.000 --> 1:56:33.680 is exactly what I think is going on here. It 1:56:33.720 --> 1:56:36.520 really does remind me of minstrel shows because even though 1:56:36.520 --> 1:56:39.800 minstrel shows back in the nineteenth century were this popular 1:56:39.840 --> 1:56:44.040 form of entertainment, it also was an entire manufacturing enterprise 1:56:44.040 --> 1:56:48.080 where people made very good money selling racist blackface figurines 1:56:48.120 --> 1:56:50.920 as novelties and all of that. David Pilgrim, the founder 1:56:50.960 --> 1:56:53.560 of the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia at Farris 1:56:53.560 --> 1:56:56.160 State University in Michigan, put it like this. They were 1:56:56.200 --> 1:57:00.320 everyday objects which portrayed black people as ugly different and 1:57:00.400 --> 1:57:03.200 fun to laugh at. They were, in a word, propaganda, 1:57:03.560 --> 1:57:05.760 And I think that's exactly what's going on here. 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:06.560 Like people like. 1:57:06.480 --> 1:57:08.760 To think about racism as if it's just this thing 1:57:08.800 --> 1:57:10.960 that hangs in the air, as opposed to a system 1:57:11.160 --> 1:57:15.240 that specific people are personally and intentionally perpetuating because they 1:57:15.240 --> 1:57:17.400 are cashing in on it. I don't feel Google letting 1:57:17.520 --> 1:57:20.720 creators use their tools to create content like this is 1:57:20.760 --> 1:57:23.560 any different, Like no, yeah, it's that is exactly what's 1:57:23.600 --> 1:57:24.400 going on in my book. 1:57:24.600 --> 1:57:27.440 That's flatly like that's just like one to one, Like 1:57:27.960 --> 1:57:32.160 you're using tech to create like unreal depictions of racist 1:57:32.240 --> 1:57:37.440 chricatures to please audiences, to reaffirm their own their own biases, 1:57:37.480 --> 1:57:40.560 to reform their own racism, and you're monetizing it and 1:57:40.560 --> 1:57:44.480 you're automating it to create hashtag viral moments like it's 1:57:44.520 --> 1:57:48.600 it's the most explicit and like gross, blatant form of 1:57:48.640 --> 1:57:51.400 this that I've seen. Like I think Robert a few 1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:54.080 years ago reported on people using AI to like make 1:57:54.120 --> 1:57:56.600 like you like true crime videos of like like like 1:57:56.720 --> 1:58:00.680 animating like victims of crimes or like murder victims and 1:58:00.720 --> 1:58:03.080 talking about how they were killed or something, which is 1:58:03.720 --> 1:58:07.520 very gross and very very disgusting. But this sort of 1:58:07.560 --> 1:58:11.160 like organized like like racist video propaganda stuff can lead 1:58:11.200 --> 1:58:14.440 to a lot more like actual, like real world damage. 1:58:14.720 --> 1:58:17.520 I completely agree. I mean those true crime videos, I 1:58:17.560 --> 1:58:21.360 remember that. Imagine if your kid was murdered and then. 1:58:21.320 --> 1:58:21.960 No, it's so gross. 1:58:22.000 --> 1:58:23.840 Twenty years later someone is like, oh, I've made an 1:58:23.880 --> 1:58:27.040 AI depiction of your murdered child telling their story. 1:58:27.800 --> 1:58:30.800 No, yeah, it's it's it's it's evil. But I think 1:58:30.800 --> 1:58:32.839 the damage that can do is is kind of limited. 1:58:33.280 --> 1:58:37.240 The damage that this whole altered reality where racism can 1:58:37.280 --> 1:58:40.400 get affirmed leads to I think a lot more actual, 1:58:40.440 --> 1:58:42.360 like political and personal consequences. 1:58:42.600 --> 1:58:46.080 Completely agree, And I also think just taking a step 1:58:46.120 --> 1:58:49.360 back in the conversation about AI, we're all being told 1:58:49.480 --> 1:58:52.360 how the proliferation of AI is going to be the 1:58:52.440 --> 1:58:53.640 lynchpin of our economy. 1:58:53.640 --> 1:58:55.880 It's so important, it's going to change everything. And then 1:58:55.920 --> 1:58:56.760 you actually. 1:58:56.520 --> 1:58:58.080 Look at some of these use cases that are taking 1:58:58.120 --> 1:58:59.600 off and it's like, well, was this really worth all 1:58:59.600 --> 1:59:03.800 the fucking climate degradation to make this racist AI version 1:59:04.000 --> 1:59:05.480 of a Bigfoot that. 1:59:05.360 --> 1:59:06.360 Looks like a black woman. 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:09.600 No more rainforest, but at least we get racist Bigfoot. 1:59:09.800 --> 1:59:11.920 So, oh my god. 1:59:11.920 --> 1:59:13.880 It Well, Garrett, I think that's a good place to end. 1:59:14.000 --> 1:59:16.320 Thank you so much for letting me rant at you 1:59:16.360 --> 1:59:18.040 about this. I really appreciate it. 1:59:18.520 --> 1:59:20.880 Where else can people find your work? Bridget Well? 1:59:20.880 --> 1:59:23.040 You can listen to my podcast There Are No Girls 1:59:23.040 --> 1:59:25.040 on the Internet. You can listen to my other podcasts 1:59:25.040 --> 1:59:28.320 with Mozilla Foundation about ethics in AI called IRL, and. 1:59:28.240 --> 1:59:30.480 You can find me on Instagram at Bridge at Marine. 1:59:30.360 --> 1:59:33.600 DC fantastic, Oh the Internet. 1:59:54.320 --> 1:59:57.840 Hi everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here, a 1:59:57.960 --> 2:00:01.320 very special edition of a Could Happen Here, in which 2:00:01.480 --> 2:00:04.680 we are very lucky to be joined by Inland from 2:00:04.920 --> 2:00:07.040 Live that the World is Dying and what will be 2:00:07.040 --> 2:00:12.000 the first of many crossover episodes where the folks from 2:00:12.240 --> 2:00:14.680 Strange Hit Tangled Woodenness are going to share with us 2:00:14.720 --> 2:00:17.839 some of their preparedness Advice. 2:00:18.120 --> 2:00:20.160 Welcome to the show. Would you like to introduce yourself? 2:00:20.520 --> 2:00:23.920 Yeah, thanks so much for having me, James, I'm in 2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:28.120 man Marowin and I use say them pronouns. And I'm 2:00:28.160 --> 2:00:30.400 one of the hosts of Love Like the World Is Dying, 2:00:30.520 --> 2:00:33.240 your podcast for What Feels Like the End Times, which 2:00:33.320 --> 2:00:38.600 is a lefty prepper podcast about community and individual preparedness 2:00:38.640 --> 2:00:43.200 for disasters of all kinds. And really excited to be 2:00:43.360 --> 2:00:46.760 on the show with you. Yeah, on a different show, 2:00:46.800 --> 2:00:49.280 because you're on that show with me sometimes, which is great. 2:00:49.400 --> 2:00:49.840 I don't know. 2:00:50.480 --> 2:00:55.200 Yeah, I'm bringing together the two like I'm sure there's 2:00:55.200 --> 2:00:57.480 a superhero reference I could make here, but I don't 2:00:57.480 --> 2:01:01.040 really understand that world, so I don't either. 2:01:01.920 --> 2:01:02.080 No. 2:01:02.320 --> 2:01:05.400 Great, Okay, two people talking about a thing they don't understand. 2:01:05.480 --> 2:01:09.560 That is what pubcasts saw sometimes, but not today. 2:01:10.240 --> 2:01:12.240 What are we going to talk about today? 2:01:12.560 --> 2:01:15.520 Well, what I'm really excited to talk about today is 2:01:16.200 --> 2:01:20.840 preparedness in general, how community preparedness differs from some more 2:01:20.920 --> 2:01:24.760 conventional modalities and being really nice with that phrase. 2:01:25.640 --> 2:01:27.120 Yeah, that's one way of saying it. 2:01:28.400 --> 2:01:32.840 How individual preparedness fits into community preparedness, and kind of 2:01:32.880 --> 2:01:38.120 about my own journey into prepper stuff or preparedness, which 2:01:38.160 --> 2:01:39.800 might be a new term for some people. 2:01:40.080 --> 2:01:40.360 Yeah. 2:01:40.520 --> 2:01:44.560 I like to call it preparedness over like prepping as 2:01:44.600 --> 2:01:47.240 a term sort of because like, I don't know, Like, 2:01:47.240 --> 2:01:49.720 if I say I'm into prepping, then people start to 2:01:49.760 --> 2:01:52.000 give me funny looks and think, I want to live 2:01:52.000 --> 2:01:55.240 in a bunker with a thousand cans of beans and 2:01:55.400 --> 2:01:57.440 more guns than I know what to do with. Yeah, 2:01:57.600 --> 2:02:01.000 But if I say I'm into preparedness, people are like, oh, 2:02:01.360 --> 2:02:03.400 I know who to call if I need help with 2:02:03.440 --> 2:02:08.080 something or get in a jam, you know. Yeah, Yeah, 2:02:08.120 --> 2:02:11.240 And it's kind of exactly that sentiment that I want 2:02:11.440 --> 2:02:14.320 listeners to think of when they think of preparedness is 2:02:14.960 --> 2:02:18.680 what connections and resources we have for when things go wrong, 2:02:19.560 --> 2:02:22.720 and how we are going to respond to disasters of 2:02:22.760 --> 2:02:26.280 all kinds when we're faced with them, because having a 2:02:26.600 --> 2:02:29.800 plan kind of makes things less scary, you know. 2:02:30.480 --> 2:02:36.560 Yeah, Definitely, I feel safe for approaching bad things because 2:02:36.560 --> 2:02:39.080 I've approached bad things with my friends and we have 2:02:39.160 --> 2:02:40.760 gone through them and we've. 2:02:40.560 --> 2:02:41.760 Helped other people get through them. 2:02:41.960 --> 2:02:42.520 Yeah. 2:02:42.640 --> 2:02:46.120 Yeah. I also think a lot of people engage in 2:02:46.240 --> 2:02:50.480 preparedness without really realizing this. I feel like i'd ask 2:02:50.600 --> 2:02:53.200 these questions to you on a less rhetorical basis if 2:02:53.240 --> 2:02:57.600 I didn't know them to be true. But for instance, listener, 2:02:57.960 --> 2:03:01.480 do you keep tools and your car in case you 2:03:01.520 --> 2:03:04.760 break down on the side of the road or if 2:03:04.800 --> 2:03:06.720 your car won't start? Do you have a friend that 2:03:06.760 --> 2:03:08.680 will take a look at it for you and help 2:03:08.680 --> 2:03:13.240 you fix it. If so, then congratulations, you're into preparedness 2:03:13.240 --> 2:03:17.480 for a very specific kind of disaster. And now we 2:03:17.600 --> 2:03:19.600 just have to figure out how to apply that to 2:03:20.360 --> 2:03:24.360 other disasters, whether it's your car breaking down, the climate 2:03:24.400 --> 2:03:27.040 breaking down, or the world as we know it breaking down, 2:03:27.720 --> 2:03:31.440 because unfortunately, with the world as it is right now, 2:03:31.840 --> 2:03:36.839 as Margaret has said before, we're all preppers now. Yeah, 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:40.640 I don't know. It's something that makes thinking about disaster 2:03:41.360 --> 2:03:44.760 just less scary. And I think that's ultimately kind of 2:03:44.760 --> 2:03:48.680 one of the best reasons of like why we should 2:03:49.440 --> 2:03:53.120 get into preparedness is because it makes things less scary. 2:03:54.000 --> 2:03:57.360 Yeah, definitely, And I think it gives you if you're 2:03:57.360 --> 2:03:59.080 doing it right, And I think this is something we 2:03:59.080 --> 2:04:02.240 can get into. You realize how much your community can 2:04:02.240 --> 2:04:04.760 get through if you will have each other rather than 2:04:05.360 --> 2:04:08.520 necessarily the alternative that the other modality that you talked 2:04:08.520 --> 2:04:11.680 about is theoretically thinking how much you could get through 2:04:11.720 --> 2:04:12.960 whilst never helping anyone. 2:04:13.080 --> 2:04:17.600 Yeah, and that's very different things. Yeah, yeah, totally, And 2:04:17.880 --> 2:04:20.280 I don't know listeners. We're talking about kind of more 2:04:20.440 --> 2:04:26.000 traditional like bunker mentality prepping, which we'll get into yeah, yeah, 2:04:26.080 --> 2:04:28.400 a little bit later, but that is my euphemism so 2:04:28.520 --> 2:04:30.840 far as more conventional modality. 2:04:31.400 --> 2:04:33.040 Yeah, certainly. 2:04:33.960 --> 2:04:36.240 Can you give some ideas of like why people might 2:04:36.320 --> 2:04:38.680 want to get into preparedness, what they might want to 2:04:38.680 --> 2:04:39.640 be prepared for? 2:04:40.680 --> 2:04:45.200 Yeah, absolutely, so many things. The list is kind of endless, 2:04:45.520 --> 2:04:49.400 which is yeah, which is unfortunate, and I don't want 2:04:49.440 --> 2:04:53.200 to overwhelm overwhelm people, but there's just a lot of things, 2:04:53.360 --> 2:04:57.400 and new things are emerging every day. But the first 2:04:57.440 --> 2:05:00.960 step of preparedness is kind of identify ying what your 2:05:01.440 --> 2:05:05.160 threat model is, or really just asking yourself, you know, 2:05:05.240 --> 2:05:10.240 like what are you personally worried about for yourself or 2:05:10.280 --> 2:05:14.680 for your community and some kind of like larger categories 2:05:14.680 --> 2:05:18.000 that we can lump that stuff into. Is I feel 2:05:18.040 --> 2:05:20.760 like what comes to mind for people immediately probably is 2:05:20.880 --> 2:05:25.040 natural disasters. They're ever more frequent, they're growing in intensity 2:05:25.200 --> 2:05:29.280 and happening in more places. People who never thought they 2:05:29.280 --> 2:05:34.040 would become climate refugees are now becoming climate refugees. I 2:05:34.160 --> 2:05:36.120 still live on a chunk of land, and like we 2:05:36.160 --> 2:05:38.800 got flooded out. We lived in a hundred year floodplain, 2:05:38.920 --> 2:05:42.000 and like, yeah, I know it's not once every hundred years, 2:05:42.000 --> 2:05:44.640 that's not how it works, but like our time. 2:05:44.440 --> 2:05:48.600 Came and we got flooded out. Yeah, there's migration. 2:05:49.120 --> 2:05:54.400 This could be due to climate change, political upheaval, economic reasons, 2:05:54.560 --> 2:05:58.760 family bigotry. Yeah, and obvious tie into this right now 2:05:58.840 --> 2:06:01.760 is everything going on with ice raids where a lot 2:06:01.840 --> 2:06:05.760 of people are being displaced and either trying to return 2:06:05.840 --> 2:06:09.480 to their homes or find new ones. And there's also, 2:06:09.640 --> 2:06:11.200 like I don't know, there's like a lot of people, 2:06:11.280 --> 2:06:16.320 like in more conservative states in the US who for instance, 2:06:16.400 --> 2:06:20.040 are trans or have trans people that are in their 2:06:20.040 --> 2:06:23.440 family or in their close friend group and are deciding 2:06:24.040 --> 2:06:27.080 whether they need to move somewhere else or at least 2:06:27.080 --> 2:06:30.320 come up with an escape plan if things get worse 2:06:30.360 --> 2:06:33.240 where they are. Yeah, And the same is true for like, 2:06:33.400 --> 2:06:37.640 I don't know, maintaining access to abortion. Everything is very 2:06:37.680 --> 2:06:41.600 different in very different places or very close spaces. Even 2:06:41.640 --> 2:06:43.920 in the United States, And so I think a lot 2:06:43.960 --> 2:06:46.760 of people who never thought they'd need to think about 2:06:46.760 --> 2:06:49.000 migration are now thinking about it. 2:06:49.520 --> 2:06:50.160 Yeah. 2:06:50.320 --> 2:06:52.800 A big problem with how migration is reported on in 2:06:52.840 --> 2:06:55.480 America is that like people who migrants have seen as 2:06:55.560 --> 2:06:59.280 like some kind of subcategory of humans, you know, totally. Yeah, 2:06:59.520 --> 2:07:02.360 if you were a person who can get pregnant, and 2:07:02.440 --> 2:07:08.959 you're a person who might consider, in whatever circumstances, accessing abortion, 2:07:09.880 --> 2:07:12.960 then in some states you need to be prepared to 2:07:13.280 --> 2:07:17.920 become a migrant, like a yeah, relatively very short notice. Right, 2:07:19.120 --> 2:07:21.600 It's something that we're all closer to you than we think. 2:07:22.160 --> 2:07:22.520 Yeah. 2:07:22.680 --> 2:07:29.040 Absolutely. Another big one is kind of like larger economic, social, 2:07:29.160 --> 2:07:33.480 or political collapse, you know, simply meaning that like the 2:07:33.520 --> 2:07:36.520 structures of the world no longer mean what they used 2:07:36.560 --> 2:07:40.160 to mean. This could mean the collapse of capitalism or 2:07:40.640 --> 2:07:45.280 capitalism turning more into like literal corporate feudalism. Another big 2:07:45.280 --> 2:07:48.040 one is, I'm just have this broad category of war. 2:07:48.560 --> 2:07:51.480 This could be an invasion, a civil war, a revolution, 2:07:52.360 --> 2:07:56.160 a rise in right wing militias, another rise in right 2:07:56.160 --> 2:08:00.400 wing militias, whatever. I'm kind of neglecting. Some more fantastastical 2:08:00.440 --> 2:08:03.360 apocalypses that I'm sure we can all imagine, but there 2:08:03.400 --> 2:08:06.760 are those we might wake up as fungus, you know 2:08:06.800 --> 2:08:12.800 who can say. And then lastly, there's the current disaster 2:08:12.960 --> 2:08:16.120 that is late stage capitalism. And this one is the 2:08:16.120 --> 2:08:18.360 one that I spend the most time thinking about because 2:08:18.400 --> 2:08:20.919 it's the one that's ever present in our lives currently 2:08:21.440 --> 2:08:24.600 and kind of informs and maybe creates a lot of 2:08:24.600 --> 2:08:28.839 the other larger threats I just mentioned, Yeah, except becoming fungus. 2:08:29.040 --> 2:08:32.600 Well yet yeah, maybe, Yeah, we're doing a lot with 2:08:32.680 --> 2:08:36.760 the the old whatever. Rfk's in charge of Ministry of Health. 2:08:36.800 --> 2:08:40.480 It's not called that health and Human Services. Yeah, I 2:08:40.520 --> 2:08:42.000 think this is the one that, like, this is a 2:08:42.040 --> 2:08:45.360 disaster that people don't often like see because it's slow. 2:08:45.480 --> 2:08:46.080 Yeah. 2:08:46.200 --> 2:08:49.200 It kills us slowly rather than quick and it kills 2:08:49.280 --> 2:08:49.720 us quickly. 2:08:49.920 --> 2:08:55.240 Yeah, talking of killing us slowly in it, my obligation 2:08:55.400 --> 2:08:58.840 to pivot to adverts is slowly killing my soul that 2:08:59.160 --> 2:09:01.000 I have to do any Yeah. 2:09:01.400 --> 2:09:02.160 This is new for me. 2:09:02.200 --> 2:09:03.720 We don't have these on a little like the world 2:09:03.840 --> 2:09:04.240 is dying. 2:09:04.800 --> 2:09:06.840 Yeah, I know, I thought i'd take the first time. 2:09:06.840 --> 2:09:07.919 I'm going to leave the second. 2:09:07.720 --> 2:09:09.520 One up to you. 2:09:09.520 --> 2:09:23.880 You can have a swing at it. All right, thank 2:09:23.920 --> 2:09:27.720 you Products and Services for supporting this show. 2:09:27.920 --> 2:09:29.440 We are back. 2:09:30.560 --> 2:09:32.760 I mean, let's break it down for people in like 2:09:32.800 --> 2:09:36.840 a very basic sense. So that's okay, how do we 2:09:37.560 --> 2:09:40.200 start being more prepared? Like I imagine the first step 2:09:40.200 --> 2:09:43.800 would be to immediately go to a federal firearms license. 2:09:43.840 --> 2:09:45.040 Se is that right? 2:09:47.000 --> 2:09:47.240 Yes? 2:09:47.440 --> 2:09:50.280 That is that is the first step. It is to 2:09:50.680 --> 2:09:54.320 fill your bunker with guns. No, that's that's not the 2:09:54.320 --> 2:09:57.880 first time because you can eat them. Yes, and now 2:09:58.400 --> 2:10:02.160 jokes aside. So the first step we just talked about 2:10:02.200 --> 2:10:05.520 it before that break is determine your threat. You know, 2:10:06.560 --> 2:10:09.520 in the case of let's use earthquakes as an example, 2:10:09.840 --> 2:10:12.560 if you live somewhere with earthquakes, then your threat model 2:10:12.560 --> 2:10:16.720 should probably include earthquakes. You might prepare for earthquakes more 2:10:16.760 --> 2:10:20.200 than you might prepare for wildfires too. The second step 2:10:20.280 --> 2:10:23.320 is make a plan, which means, like, when there's an earthquake, 2:10:23.360 --> 2:10:25.480 you're going to do X and Y and meet so 2:10:25.520 --> 2:10:29.720 and so at blank. You can also include not living 2:10:29.720 --> 2:10:32.680 somewhere with earthquakes anymore as part of your make a plan, 2:10:32.960 --> 2:10:35.760 because maybe that's just the one thing you don't want 2:10:35.800 --> 2:10:39.080 to deal with. The next part is acquire the parts 2:10:39.080 --> 2:10:42.800 of the plan, and so like, if your plan includes resources, 2:10:42.880 --> 2:10:47.200 which everyone's plan should include a go bag, an escape route, 2:10:47.560 --> 2:10:50.080 and any kind of equipment that you need. And at 2:10:50.080 --> 2:10:53.839 this point you're mostly ready, I maybe would add to 2:10:53.920 --> 2:10:59.080 collaborate with others, and then this step gets missed a lot. 2:10:59.240 --> 2:11:02.800 But at this point, since you're mostly ready, hopefully you 2:11:02.840 --> 2:11:06.120 can let go of some anxiety and despair. You've done 2:11:06.160 --> 2:11:11.080 the hardest part, which is to get started, and hopefully 2:11:11.120 --> 2:11:13.360 you can. We can feel comfort in that if we 2:11:13.400 --> 2:11:16.480 can't forestall a disaster, that we can at least be 2:11:16.520 --> 2:11:20.160 ready for it, and then act on the plan, do 2:11:20.320 --> 2:11:24.600 the thing, and assess what you can do better next time. Yeah, 2:11:24.880 --> 2:11:28.240 those are my basic steps. Yeah, it is makes it 2:11:28.240 --> 2:11:29.160 seem also simple. 2:11:29.840 --> 2:11:30.720 It's so simple. 2:11:31.600 --> 2:11:34.520 Yeah, obviously we will spend a lot of time in 2:11:34.560 --> 2:11:36.680 the next few months breaking down each of those steps 2:11:36.720 --> 2:11:38.040 and explaining them for people. 2:11:38.440 --> 2:11:38.839 Yeah. 2:11:38.920 --> 2:11:42.040 But yeah, like, I live in a place where wildfires 2:11:42.080 --> 2:11:44.080 are common. In my time living in California, I've been 2:11:44.080 --> 2:11:47.120 evacuated for a couple of fires. I've had an earthquake, 2:11:47.920 --> 2:11:50.760 you know, I've had a fewer than natural disasters. Of course, 2:11:50.880 --> 2:11:53.480 earthquake channels have become fires. It did in San Francisco. 2:11:53.600 --> 2:11:56.280 But yeah, it would not make sense if you live 2:11:56.400 --> 2:11:57.600 where I live to. 2:11:57.720 --> 2:12:02.600 Not have a plan. Yeah for that being naive. Yeah, 2:12:02.720 --> 2:12:03.240 it's like. 2:12:03.240 --> 2:12:04.800 A story like that for you, Like is there a 2:12:04.840 --> 2:12:08.520 thing did you, like, you know, have to evacuate for 2:12:08.960 --> 2:12:11.600 a wildfire and you couldn't find your shoes? 2:12:11.720 --> 2:12:12.080 Like what? 2:12:12.680 --> 2:12:14.800 So one of my funny things was living on this 2:12:14.920 --> 2:12:18.480 land project and like we were we were experiencing a flood. 2:12:18.600 --> 2:12:21.240 We were experiencing what could have very easily been a 2:12:21.240 --> 2:12:25.520 flash flood, and I was trying to just convince people 2:12:25.560 --> 2:12:29.680 to leave, and I had a hard time convincing people 2:12:29.720 --> 2:12:32.320 to leave. Yeah, like there was like water up to 2:12:32.360 --> 2:12:36.240 our chests. And this is my answer now. But my 2:12:36.520 --> 2:12:41.040 answer that I wrote about for this episode is so 2:12:42.040 --> 2:12:44.040 a little bit of preliad. In the first episode of 2:12:44.080 --> 2:12:46.760 Live Like the World Is Dying, Margaret talks with Kitty 2:12:46.800 --> 2:12:51.600 Striker about anarchist prepping, and Margaret talks about the possibilities 2:12:51.600 --> 2:12:54.880 that she's preparing for, which she identifies as kind of 2:12:55.080 --> 2:12:58.480 these four possibilities, living like the world is going to end, 2:12:58.600 --> 2:13:01.040 and that we might not survive. Living like the world 2:13:01.160 --> 2:13:03.440 is going to end, and we can try to survive, 2:13:04.040 --> 2:13:06.520 living like we can prevent the end of the world, 2:13:06.640 --> 2:13:10.520 and then maybe trying to live like the world isn't 2:13:10.800 --> 2:13:16.600 going to end after all. And I got into preparedness 2:13:16.600 --> 2:13:19.760 for a lot of reasons, some of which evolved over time. 2:13:20.080 --> 2:13:22.640 It went from something that felt scary to something that 2:13:22.640 --> 2:13:26.480 feels comforting, and I hope that it can become comforting 2:13:26.480 --> 2:13:28.440 for other people. I hope that's where a lot of 2:13:28.440 --> 2:13:30.840 you can land who are listening, who are either new 2:13:30.880 --> 2:13:33.160 to the concept or think that prepping is only for 2:13:33.200 --> 2:13:36.480 people who expect to need to survive for thirty years 2:13:36.520 --> 2:13:41.480 in a bunker after a nuclear, zombie, bio apokarev or whatever, 2:13:41.720 --> 2:13:45.360 eating canned beans. I'm really harping on this image because 2:13:45.400 --> 2:13:47.200 I think it's what a lot of people think of 2:13:47.240 --> 2:13:50.240 when they think of prepping. You know, beans, bunker, a 2:13:50.240 --> 2:13:55.320 little battie and the fourth maybe lesser known one billionaires 2:13:55.440 --> 2:13:58.560 or the four bees of the apocalypse, as I want 2:13:58.560 --> 2:14:02.160 to think about them. To kind of confront this as 2:14:02.240 --> 2:14:06.000 like a word, this like apocalypse. There's a lot of 2:14:06.040 --> 2:14:09.200 different kinds of apocalypses, and whether we like it or not, 2:14:09.400 --> 2:14:13.000 if it isn't already here. It's coming, and for some 2:14:13.040 --> 2:14:16.800 people it's coming swiftly, for others it's slowly, but it 2:14:16.840 --> 2:14:20.600 is coming, and billionaires are preparing for it. Even if 2:14:20.640 --> 2:14:22.920 they want us to think their tech will save the world. 2:14:23.240 --> 2:14:25.760 They have all the money and resources, and they are 2:14:25.840 --> 2:14:29.320 still worried. And while they'll try to use their money 2:14:29.320 --> 2:14:32.440 in power to kind of escape the consequences becoming a 2:14:32.480 --> 2:14:35.480 billionaire has had on the world. Most people probably don't 2:14:35.480 --> 2:14:38.840 have access to those kinds of resources. But what we 2:14:38.880 --> 2:14:41.480 all do have access to our social and community ties, 2:14:41.560 --> 2:14:44.920 even if it might not seem like that now. And oddly, 2:14:44.960 --> 2:14:48.120 these social ties are things that billionaires often lack, or 2:14:48.320 --> 2:14:52.640 doubt the authenticity of, or just can't comprehend. There's this 2:14:52.800 --> 2:14:57.040 article by Douglas Ruscoff. This tech consultant who gets flown 2:14:57.080 --> 2:14:59.640 out to the desert to talk to rich people about collapse, 2:15:00.600 --> 2:15:03.600 surprised because they don't really ask him about tech stuff. 2:15:03.600 --> 2:15:07.040 They ask him about like maintaining social control over the 2:15:07.040 --> 2:15:10.240 people that work for them when money no longer means anything. 2:15:10.760 --> 2:15:13.400 And I'm like, I don't know, do maybe make like 2:15:13.520 --> 2:15:14.840 more authentic friendships? 2:15:14.960 --> 2:15:15.160 You know? 2:15:15.760 --> 2:15:19.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe don't rely on having people so 2:15:19.320 --> 2:15:22.920 subservient to you. Yeah, but I think this kind of 2:15:23.080 --> 2:15:26.080 air quotes conundrum speaks a lot to people's fears about 2:15:26.080 --> 2:15:30.520 collapse and is what gets people into a bunker mentality. 2:15:30.840 --> 2:15:33.680 You know, everyone's worried about roving bands of armed people 2:15:33.800 --> 2:15:37.840 taking what they've prepared for their own survival, and I 2:15:37.920 --> 2:15:40.800 think that is a fantasy that we don't really see 2:15:40.840 --> 2:15:44.800 happen in real life as often as we might think. Yeah, 2:15:45.400 --> 2:15:49.840 I've reported from plenty of natural and human creative disasters. 2:15:50.240 --> 2:15:54.640 Actually it is the opposite of that. Like, we can 2:15:54.680 --> 2:15:57.320 talk about this another time, but it's one of the 2:15:57.360 --> 2:16:00.640 reasons I can keep doing it. Like, despite being huge mutumatic, 2:16:00.840 --> 2:16:04.800 is it's touchingly incredible how much people will go out 2:16:04.800 --> 2:16:07.200 of their way when they're thoroughly miserable to help other 2:16:07.240 --> 2:16:09.000 people who they see is needing help. 2:16:09.520 --> 2:16:10.240 Yeah. 2:16:10.480 --> 2:16:13.480 Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing. 2:16:14.080 --> 2:16:14.360 Yeah. 2:16:14.480 --> 2:16:17.160 To be a little bit of a word nerd real quick. 2:16:17.360 --> 2:16:19.960 I feel like everyone who talks about prepping has talked 2:16:19.960 --> 2:16:23.160 about the etymological origins of the word apocalypse. But it 2:16:23.240 --> 2:16:26.520 is very interesting and I think it's relevant, which is like, Okay, 2:16:26.600 --> 2:16:30.080 it's from these two Greek words apo, and collectine, which 2:16:30.120 --> 2:16:33.400 means like often to conceal and so like a more 2:16:33.440 --> 2:16:37.400 literal translation of it is a revealing And I think 2:16:37.520 --> 2:16:42.480 that disaster really reveals things. It reveals the ways that 2:16:42.920 --> 2:16:47.440 society has really like bailed. It reveals the consequences of 2:16:47.959 --> 2:16:51.879 what living in a corporate oligarchy looks like. And it 2:16:52.000 --> 2:16:57.800 also reveals like what beautiful and powerful things people have 2:16:58.040 --> 2:17:02.200 built as communities and prepare it for to give like 2:17:02.280 --> 2:17:05.600 a little bit of a positive spin on a grim, 2:17:05.760 --> 2:17:06.800 grim grim word. 2:17:07.520 --> 2:17:10.400 Yeah, No, Like when I think about that, I think 2:17:10.400 --> 2:17:12.520 about like two years ago, I was in the Marshal Islands, 2:17:12.600 --> 2:17:16.760 right where like the apocalypse has come, right, the atomic 2:17:16.800 --> 2:17:19.200 bomb has dropped on the Marshal Islands, the United States. 2:17:19.200 --> 2:17:22.440 We did that, and the sea levels a rising such 2:17:22.440 --> 2:17:24.959 that like children born there today won't die there, right, 2:17:25.240 --> 2:17:27.440 they probably won't even have their own children there, you know, 2:17:27.480 --> 2:17:31.520 twenty thirty forty years left. And I didn't see like 2:17:31.680 --> 2:17:35.119 people fighting each other for the highest point of land. Yeah, 2:17:35.520 --> 2:17:39.119 I saw people taking care of one another, thinking about 2:17:39.160 --> 2:17:41.960 how like not just like their individual you know, they 2:17:41.959 --> 2:17:45.400 could maintain their assets, but how their community could survive, 2:17:45.480 --> 2:17:48.240 how their culture could survive, and how they could keep 2:17:48.280 --> 2:17:52.120 the things, the incredible hospitality that's so special to them, 2:17:52.200 --> 2:17:55.160 which I thought was like very revealing compared to this 2:17:55.240 --> 2:18:00.200 sort of mindset that you see more conventionally in like preppers. 2:18:00.840 --> 2:18:01.400 Yeah. 2:18:01.440 --> 2:18:05.240 Absolutely, And to finally get to my own kind of 2:18:05.280 --> 2:18:09.279 little journey into preparedness. Yeah, I wasn't a prepper until 2:18:09.320 --> 2:18:11.240 like not that long ago. Really. 2:18:12.040 --> 2:18:12.640 Yeah. 2:18:12.680 --> 2:18:15.400 When I first heard Live Like the World Is Dying, 2:18:15.600 --> 2:18:18.960 it was twenty twenty. COVID was still new. There was 2:18:19.000 --> 2:18:21.920 like extreme civil unrest because there was an uprising going on, 2:18:22.720 --> 2:18:26.039 and the same fascist that's our sitting president now was 2:18:26.080 --> 2:18:28.800 our president then, and he was backed up by people 2:18:28.840 --> 2:18:32.439 like Kyle Rittenhouse who were gunning people down in streets 2:18:32.440 --> 2:18:36.000 for protesting a racist murder. Where I lived in entire 2:18:36.080 --> 2:18:40.080 Mountain Range was also on fire. Yeah, and the idea 2:18:40.120 --> 2:18:43.000 that it was the coolest summer I might ever remember 2:18:43.120 --> 2:18:45.800 was still setting in. And then I heard about Margaret 2:18:45.800 --> 2:18:48.480 doing Live Like the World Is Dying, and I actually 2:18:48.520 --> 2:18:51.160 refused to listen to it because I knew with every 2:18:51.160 --> 2:18:55.160 fiber of my body that things were irrevocably different, and 2:18:55.240 --> 2:18:57.600 I wanted to stick my head in the sand, you know, 2:18:57.959 --> 2:19:02.400 like not because I was scared, but because getting prepared 2:19:02.440 --> 2:19:05.160 is overwhelming, and I didn't have any clue where to begin. 2:19:06.000 --> 2:19:08.480 Like I was a scrappy punk I didn't have like 2:19:08.600 --> 2:19:13.840 thousands of dollars to spend on gear and stockpiling food 2:19:14.080 --> 2:19:17.800 and guns and shit, you know. Yeah, And so it 2:19:17.959 --> 2:19:20.240 felt for a while like preparedness was only for people 2:19:20.240 --> 2:19:23.800 who had a lot of money, and that I'd be 2:19:24.160 --> 2:19:26.920 left behind. But I did eventually listen to the show 2:19:27.440 --> 2:19:29.959 because Margaret's my friend and I trusted she had good 2:19:30.000 --> 2:19:33.199 things to say, and because it was a show about 2:19:33.360 --> 2:19:36.920 beginnings and I needed one. And so as I listened, 2:19:36.959 --> 2:19:39.320 I slowly started to warm up to the idea that 2:19:39.959 --> 2:19:43.240 preparedness wasn't just necessary, but that it was also very 2:19:43.320 --> 2:19:48.959 much within my reach, especially in the framework of community preparedness. Yeah, 2:19:49.280 --> 2:19:50.840 and you know who can tell you a lot about 2:19:50.879 --> 2:19:56.720 community preparedness. Who's said, I think these lovely sponsors or 2:19:56.760 --> 2:20:00.080 advertisements or products that were about to hear about. 2:20:00.720 --> 2:20:12.520 I sure, hope, so we are back. 2:20:12.560 --> 2:20:16.640 That was a fantastic ad transition, first of many. Hopefully 2:20:16.680 --> 2:20:19.200 it wasn't like apparently beginning ads for like some kind 2:20:19.200 --> 2:20:22.400 of gold company that is also sanctioned by God, God, 2:20:23.320 --> 2:20:25.360 that that is just just to be clear, not the 2:20:25.440 --> 2:20:30.560 way to go trans the community preparedness that precious metals route. 2:20:30.640 --> 2:20:34.760 This one we're not advising here. Can you like explain 2:20:35.760 --> 2:20:38.959 the difference between those two modalities, because I think, yeah, 2:20:39.120 --> 2:20:42.360 like I still when Margaret was asking me if I 2:20:42.400 --> 2:20:43.920 wanted to do live like the world is dying, she 2:20:44.000 --> 2:20:45.960 was like, oh, because James is like when we did 2:20:46.000 --> 2:20:47.720 an episode together and go back, She's like, oh, yeah, 2:20:47.760 --> 2:20:51.000 James's a big like like at lefty Prepper a community 2:20:51.000 --> 2:20:53.640 prepared And I was like, whoa, that's not me. 2:20:53.840 --> 2:20:55.520 I'm not going to be on. 2:20:55.640 --> 2:20:57.959 The Discovery Channel show, you know, like where the people 2:20:58.600 --> 2:20:59.879 shoot themselves on camera. 2:21:00.120 --> 2:21:00.720 Back then they. 2:21:00.680 --> 2:21:04.720 Didn't too kill themselves and they handle their firearms in 2:21:04.720 --> 2:21:07.879 an unsafe manner and hurt themselves totally. So let's explain, like, 2:21:07.959 --> 2:21:10.320 let's break down the good and the bad. 2:21:10.560 --> 2:21:14.160 Yeah, and there's kind of a tension between them, yeah, 2:21:14.200 --> 2:21:17.640 and between like what i'll call community preparedness and like 2:21:18.120 --> 2:21:19.640 bunker syndrome prepping. 2:21:20.000 --> 2:21:20.720 Yeah. 2:21:20.840 --> 2:21:23.160 So the image that prepping brings to mind for a 2:21:23.160 --> 2:21:26.160 lot of people is like a right wing alpha dude 2:21:26.160 --> 2:21:29.200 in a bunker with a dragon horde of preserved food 2:21:29.320 --> 2:21:31.959 and more guns than anyone could ever use. It's like 2:21:32.000 --> 2:21:35.280 an image of one person against the world. And I'm 2:21:35.360 --> 2:21:39.160 kind of like, Okay, your fantasy apocalypse happens. You survive 2:21:39.480 --> 2:21:43.800 the nuclear apocalypse, Armed gangs rove the wastelands, food is 2:21:43.840 --> 2:21:47.400 hoarded and fought over, and you're protecting your bunker. And 2:21:47.440 --> 2:21:50.280 then what, you know, what happens next? How do you 2:21:50.400 --> 2:21:53.879 build back a world alone? What is the world if 2:21:53.879 --> 2:21:57.080 you're alone? Yea, And not only like we've talked about that, 2:21:57.120 --> 2:21:59.120 we mentioned this earlier, but like, I don't I think 2:21:59.160 --> 2:22:03.440 this is not only like a fantasy, but it's not 2:22:03.520 --> 2:22:08.040 what happens I think historically in disasters and the way 2:22:08.040 --> 2:22:10.400 that we can make it through disasters, I think is 2:22:10.440 --> 2:22:12.959 not based on how many resources we have hoarded, but 2:22:13.120 --> 2:22:16.680 based on our abilities to make and maintain community, friendship 2:22:16.760 --> 2:22:21.760 and connections. You know, it's a trope, but the real 2:22:21.840 --> 2:22:25.520 horde in the bunker was the friendship all along, you know. 2:22:26.000 --> 2:22:28.520 I don't know, Yeah, but you know, we do need 2:22:28.560 --> 2:22:31.400 to learn how to produce and preserve food and build stuff. 2:22:31.680 --> 2:22:34.360 We just don't have to do it alone. In a disaster. 2:22:34.480 --> 2:22:37.039 Our greatest resource is help from people that we care 2:22:37.080 --> 2:22:40.400 about in potential new friends. And it's sort of the 2:22:40.440 --> 2:22:43.320 overwhelming amount of skills that come with the bunker syndrome 2:22:43.640 --> 2:22:45.760 that I think causes a lot of people to become 2:22:45.879 --> 2:22:50.119 overwhelmed by starting to prepare and the traditional preppery community. 2:22:50.160 --> 2:22:54.040 It's very right wing conservative, and it really makes it 2:22:54.160 --> 2:22:57.200 seem like every single person has to learn every skill 2:22:57.600 --> 2:23:01.480 they could possibly need in order to get for heard. Yeah, 2:23:01.560 --> 2:23:04.920 And I think part of that kind of bunker syndrome 2:23:05.000 --> 2:23:07.280 is also maybe that you have to learn all that 2:23:07.320 --> 2:23:09.680 stuff on your own because you low key think that 2:23:09.720 --> 2:23:12.800 everyone you know is going to turn on you, you know. 2:23:13.520 --> 2:23:16.080 Right, Yeah, because you've been an odious piece of shit 2:23:16.240 --> 2:23:17.280 for your entire life. 2:23:17.400 --> 2:23:21.800 Yeah, and again make better friends, you know. Yeah. 2:23:21.840 --> 2:23:24.160 Like I used to think that like preparedness was a 2:23:24.160 --> 2:23:27.119 lot of people who'd never really experienced genuine hardship wondering 2:23:27.120 --> 2:23:30.760 what it might be like probably is, yeah, a lot 2:23:30.760 --> 2:23:34.120 of it is, right because like if you've been just 2:23:34.240 --> 2:23:39.560 like poor or otherwise facing like like trans folks right now, 2:23:39.760 --> 2:23:44.640 right even like anyone really in their LGBTQAA area, Like 2:23:45.520 --> 2:23:47.600 it's scary right now, and you've probably found that the 2:23:47.640 --> 2:23:50.360 things are keeping you going are other people, yeah, and 2:23:50.800 --> 2:23:54.480 not your pile of beans. And like I certainly have 2:23:55.000 --> 2:23:58.119 not experienced what transfers are experiencing, but like I've had 2:23:58.120 --> 2:24:00.960 some difficult times and I've been poor, and like it's 2:24:01.000 --> 2:24:03.480 always been like other people who have come through for me, 2:24:03.760 --> 2:24:08.000 not stuff I had or even skills I have. Really Yeah, 2:24:08.040 --> 2:24:11.119 And I think there's this real divide between like there's 2:24:11.440 --> 2:24:14.480 people who are in fantasy bunker land, and then there's 2:24:14.520 --> 2:24:17.600 people who are like either too afraid to think about 2:24:17.600 --> 2:24:20.760 preparedness or feel too overwhelmed to think about it, or 2:24:20.840 --> 2:24:26.199 think that yeah, they can't possibly do it because it's 2:24:26.320 --> 2:24:30.920 too far gone already. And I think preparedness is for everyone, 2:24:30.959 --> 2:24:34.920 you know, like we say start small, put food away 2:24:34.920 --> 2:24:37.240 every week, start to get your go back together. 2:24:37.800 --> 2:24:38.279 Just start. 2:24:38.840 --> 2:24:39.480 Yeah. 2:24:39.720 --> 2:24:43.080 And so to maybe now to find like what community 2:24:43.080 --> 2:24:46.720 preparedness is is, I think that it's what we get 2:24:46.760 --> 2:24:48.920 when we take a lot of different principles and mash 2:24:49.000 --> 2:24:52.199 them together. You know, there's like it's like part mutual aid, 2:24:52.200 --> 2:24:56.920 it's part individual preparedness. It's principles of autonomy, solidarity, direct action, 2:24:57.080 --> 2:25:01.440 and collective decision making, and it's all synthesized into a 2:25:01.520 --> 2:25:03.119 kind of a beautiful little alchemy. 2:25:03.600 --> 2:25:03.880 Yeah. 2:25:03.920 --> 2:25:06.959 It's kind of the most like anarchistic thing you can do, 2:25:07.160 --> 2:25:09.400 which is really fun to me. Yeah, and I think 2:25:09.400 --> 2:25:11.760 it really means investing in the people around you so 2:25:11.800 --> 2:25:15.800 that you can all invest in collective survival. I know 2:25:16.200 --> 2:25:18.560 we mentioned this earlier, but like there's this thing that 2:25:18.760 --> 2:25:23.879 happens during disasters that gets referred to as disaster communism. Yeah, 2:25:24.000 --> 2:25:25.280 have you heard that one? 2:25:25.440 --> 2:25:25.640 Yeah? 2:25:25.720 --> 2:25:26.240 Yeah. 2:25:26.280 --> 2:25:28.480 It doesn't mean that like Lenin emerges and leads a 2:25:28.560 --> 2:25:32.320 vanguard group to show you where the Pupercachen's at. 2:25:32.879 --> 2:25:33.600 No, no, no. 2:25:33.680 --> 2:25:36.920 No, It means that the logic of capital is kind 2:25:36.920 --> 2:25:41.160 of temporarily suspended, and people just help each other for free, 2:25:41.520 --> 2:25:44.600 not even for barter, for free, and like people like 2:25:44.680 --> 2:25:47.439 go out and just give out stuff they haven't excess, 2:25:47.760 --> 2:25:49.840 even if they purchased it, and even if they're like, 2:25:50.600 --> 2:25:52.720 you don't look like the kind of people I like, 2:25:53.520 --> 2:25:54.000 just give. 2:25:53.879 --> 2:25:55.400 It out, Yeah, one hundred percent. 2:25:55.520 --> 2:25:58.480 Like, yeah, I think, like I can think of a few, 2:25:58.480 --> 2:26:01.400 Like I can remember when those of people were being 2:26:02.280 --> 2:26:05.200 housed outside in the cold and wet at the border. 2:26:05.360 --> 2:26:07.840 House is not the word I would use peralte In 2:26:07.879 --> 2:26:10.240 the desert. I was out there with my friends and 2:26:10.280 --> 2:26:14.160 like we look like dirty crusspunk people, right, Like we're 2:26:14.240 --> 2:26:17.280 not like clean and well put together in that sense, right, 2:26:17.320 --> 2:26:20.360 Like we just scruffed and that's fine, and I like 2:26:20.400 --> 2:26:20.920 being scrubbed. 2:26:20.959 --> 2:26:22.480 Yeah that's nice. 2:26:22.640 --> 2:26:26.040 But like, yeah, it was amazing to see like folks 2:26:26.040 --> 2:26:28.920 who one hundred percent do not have the same politics 2:26:28.920 --> 2:26:33.400 as me, like roll out and whatever, like setups you 2:26:33.400 --> 2:26:35.720 know they had and like be like, yo, this is 2:26:35.760 --> 2:26:38.760 fucked luckily, Like I have some stuff that I was 2:26:38.760 --> 2:26:40.720 going to use for a barbecue next week. Some will 2:26:40.800 --> 2:26:43.080 drag my barbecue out here and cook for people, or 2:26:43.120 --> 2:26:46.800 like yeah, you know people who cook for their church's 2:26:47.160 --> 2:26:49.440 bake sale, being like yeah, I have a giant ass pot, 2:26:49.520 --> 2:26:51.720 Like let me make some beans for you guys. You know, 2:26:51.879 --> 2:26:54.600 Like yeah, I think people would be so surprised, and 2:26:54.640 --> 2:26:58.039 it's great that people have not experienced that, like because 2:26:58.080 --> 2:27:00.160 I think it's quite a traumatic thing to experience, Like 2:27:00.600 --> 2:27:03.600 you'd be so surprised how how much or like I 2:27:03.600 --> 2:27:07.640 remember one time just building shelters with a bunch of people, 2:27:07.920 --> 2:27:11.640 and like everyone was pretty miserable rates of cold and windy, 2:27:11.680 --> 2:27:14.400 and like there were some Kourdish guys and respect guys, 2:27:14.400 --> 2:27:16.880 some Chinese guys, and we're building these shelters together, and 2:27:16.959 --> 2:27:19.280 like all of these people who didn't even share a 2:27:19.360 --> 2:27:21.520 language and we're going through very difficult times. We're just 2:27:21.560 --> 2:27:26.280 like nerding out on knots together rare and just helping 2:27:26.320 --> 2:27:28.240 each other and then not doing that so they could 2:27:28.280 --> 2:27:30.640 sleep inside, doing that so little children wouldn't have to 2:27:30.680 --> 2:27:31.440 sleep in the cold. 2:27:31.760 --> 2:27:34.599 But yeah, it's that. It's the way humans behave. 2:27:34.400 --> 2:27:39.120 In these situations, and capitalism or YouTube might have convinced 2:27:39.160 --> 2:27:40.840 you it's not, but it is. 2:27:41.160 --> 2:27:44.879 Yeah, And I think like more traditional preppers really like 2:27:45.000 --> 2:27:47.160 get into it too, Like they'll show up they're like 2:27:47.440 --> 2:27:51.000 I got forty chainsaws or like like it's like every 2:27:51.240 --> 2:27:55.080 like chud Truck's time to shine to like Halloway Repigeon, 2:27:55.320 --> 2:27:57.320 Like I don't know, you know, it's like I'm making 2:27:57.360 --> 2:28:01.160 it sound exciting, but what's exciting is when people collaborate 2:28:01.240 --> 2:28:05.720 autonomously and collectively for like more good than their own. 2:28:06.560 --> 2:28:09.480 And then kind of the problem is that like capitalism 2:28:09.560 --> 2:28:14.720 comes back in the initial fallout fades from sight, and yeah, 2:28:14.760 --> 2:28:18.440 just because the disaster kind of fades doesn't mean it's gone, 2:28:19.040 --> 2:28:21.960 and there's a lot of people who kind of still 2:28:21.959 --> 2:28:25.040 have to deal with it for potentially ever. Yeah, and 2:28:25.080 --> 2:28:28.080 that's kind of like the disaster of light stage capitalism 2:28:28.200 --> 2:28:32.720 is similar. We have people who are constantly invisibilized even 2:28:32.760 --> 2:28:35.680 though it's part of their regular lives. 2:28:36.000 --> 2:28:36.680 Yeah. 2:28:36.959 --> 2:28:39.080 Can I maybe break down some of these terms that 2:28:39.120 --> 2:28:41.240 are maybe it can be good for people? Yeah, yeah, 2:28:41.760 --> 2:28:44.920 because I think they get thrown around a lot, right, totally. So, 2:28:45.680 --> 2:28:48.600 Mutual aid is knowing that any help that we give 2:28:48.640 --> 2:28:52.519 our community helps us by strengthening our strengthening our community. 2:28:53.120 --> 2:28:56.440 Autonomy is deciding what's best for us based on what 2:28:56.520 --> 2:29:00.720 we know about ourselves and our needs. Solidarity is unity 2:29:00.760 --> 2:29:04.560 through action and knowing that. Like it's like the you know, 2:29:04.640 --> 2:29:07.320 I got your back even if you don't got mine. 2:29:07.480 --> 2:29:07.680 You know. 2:29:08.879 --> 2:29:12.080 Direct action is working directly to achieve our goals instead 2:29:12.080 --> 2:29:13.520 of waiting for someone else to do it. 2:29:13.680 --> 2:29:13.920 You know. 2:29:14.160 --> 2:29:16.800 We see this in disasters like don't wait for FEMA. 2:29:16.840 --> 2:29:18.600 There's like so many people who are just out there 2:29:18.640 --> 2:29:23.480 doing autonomous relief efforts and it's incredible collective decision making, 2:29:24.160 --> 2:29:26.959 finding ways to make decisions together in ways where power 2:29:27.000 --> 2:29:33.000 isn't being like abused or accumulated. And then there's individual preparedness, 2:29:33.040 --> 2:29:35.480 which is kind of the last little thing I want 2:29:35.480 --> 2:29:38.240 to talk about. So individual preparedness is kind of like 2:29:38.280 --> 2:29:41.800 the ways that we prepare individually so that when a 2:29:41.840 --> 2:29:46.640 disaster strikes, we have our basic needs met and you know, 2:29:46.680 --> 2:29:49.120 there's a lot to learn. So it's like we it's 2:29:49.160 --> 2:29:53.920 easy to get lost back in that overwhelm mentality. Yeah, 2:29:53.959 --> 2:29:56.039 but I think we can really think about it in 2:29:56.120 --> 2:29:58.680 terms of disaster since we're on that track. Like, if 2:29:58.720 --> 2:30:01.640 there's a disaster d and power goes out, then the 2:30:01.720 --> 2:30:05.200 roads are less traversible. If you have all of your 2:30:05.240 --> 2:30:08.160 needs met through individual preparedness, then you're in a really 2:30:08.200 --> 2:30:11.280 good position to go help others. And if everyone in 2:30:11.320 --> 2:30:15.480 your community already has prepared for their basic needs, then 2:30:15.520 --> 2:30:17.800 your whole community is prepared to take kind of the 2:30:17.840 --> 2:30:21.880 next step towards recovery. And it means that your community 2:30:21.920 --> 2:30:25.360 can now help other communities that were less prepared or 2:30:25.879 --> 2:30:30.080 more impacted by a disaster, even if they thought they 2:30:30.080 --> 2:30:34.039 were prepared. Community preparedness is like what happens when we 2:30:34.200 --> 2:30:37.960 kind of mash all of these ideas together and start 2:30:38.000 --> 2:30:40.879 doing it, not just as an individual, but as a community, 2:30:41.200 --> 2:30:44.720 and this can look small or it can look big, 2:30:45.000 --> 2:30:47.240 you know, And I think a lot of people's biggest 2:30:47.280 --> 2:30:51.400 hurdle is just like kind of making a plan, and like, 2:30:51.480 --> 2:30:54.720 I don't know, your disaster plan might include you and 2:30:54.800 --> 2:30:57.320 the people you live with, It might include you and 2:30:57.360 --> 2:31:00.320 your polycule. It might include you and your whole block, 2:31:00.680 --> 2:31:03.760 and it might include your whole neighborhood. And I think 2:31:03.800 --> 2:31:08.000 there's just this like big, beautiful spectrum and to kind 2:31:08.000 --> 2:31:10.879 of carry an example through, like some interviews that we've 2:31:10.879 --> 2:31:13.840 done on a livef the world is dying. Someone's measure 2:31:13.959 --> 2:31:18.760 of individual preparedness might include having a radio when cell 2:31:18.800 --> 2:31:24.160 networks go down, and anothers might include building communication infrastructure 2:31:24.200 --> 2:31:29.160 that they can distribute. And another maybe smaller groups idea 2:31:29.640 --> 2:31:33.160 might be agreeing on a place to meet up because 2:31:33.800 --> 2:31:37.119 they don't have radios, can't afford them, don't know how 2:31:37.120 --> 2:31:40.760 they work, and they've just said when shit hits the fan, 2:31:41.080 --> 2:31:43.320 we're meeting at the library. 2:31:43.920 --> 2:31:44.320 Yeah. 2:31:44.520 --> 2:31:48.400 That's still a whole lot better than like dashing around 2:31:48.400 --> 2:31:49.880 town wondering what the people you love. 2:31:50.360 --> 2:31:52.760 Yeah, yeah, and it's that easy. You know, we get 2:31:52.800 --> 2:31:57.200 overwhelmed by tech, but there's so many low tech solutions 2:31:57.320 --> 2:31:59.240 to a lot of these problems. 2:31:59.560 --> 2:31:59.760 Yeah. 2:32:00.080 --> 2:32:03.240 Yeah, that's why we're doing an episode on carry a pigeon. Yeah, 2:32:03.400 --> 2:32:08.000 carrier pigeons, aren't they extinct? That's passenger pigeons, different pigeons, 2:32:08.000 --> 2:32:09.000 passenger visions. 2:32:09.080 --> 2:32:09.320 Yeah. 2:32:09.400 --> 2:32:12.920 Yeah, So, like, what are some basic ways we can 2:32:13.080 --> 2:32:15.440 we can think about preparedness And we're going to cover 2:32:15.480 --> 2:32:17.600 these in more detail, right, we'll do episodes on each 2:32:17.640 --> 2:32:20.760 of these. But maybe someone's like, well, shit, I would 2:32:20.840 --> 2:32:24.240 like to get on that. What are some things people 2:32:24.280 --> 2:32:24.880 can work on? 2:32:25.400 --> 2:32:25.959 Yeah? 2:32:26.200 --> 2:32:29.960 I think it does start with kind of individual preparedness. 2:32:30.040 --> 2:32:32.920 And when I say individual, I mean, like, you know, 2:32:33.000 --> 2:32:37.039 for ourselves. But that doesn't mean we can't do individual 2:32:37.080 --> 2:32:41.240 preparedness parallel and like with other people. So don't think 2:32:41.280 --> 2:32:44.840 of individual as being alone. It's just we're thinking about 2:32:45.560 --> 2:32:50.959 your specific basic needs. And so here's kind of a 2:32:51.040 --> 2:32:55.040 checklist that we put out in a zine for strangers 2:32:55.080 --> 2:32:59.720 in a Tangled Wilderness called Ready for Anything. There's documentation 2:33:00.120 --> 2:33:06.280 you know, get or renewed documentation like passports, DOCA, other 2:33:06.360 --> 2:33:10.080 status cards whatever. Get a driver's license from your state 2:33:10.160 --> 2:33:13.440 if you are undocumented, if you have other kind of 2:33:13.440 --> 2:33:17.720 permits like concealed carry permits, or medical documentation for you 2:33:17.760 --> 2:33:20.920 and your pets. Get all of those together, and you 2:33:20.959 --> 2:33:25.040 want to think about having both physical and digital backups 2:33:25.080 --> 2:33:30.920 of those things. Yeah, because digital might not work. You 2:33:31.000 --> 2:33:34.959 want to do some kind of basic just supply preparedness, 2:33:35.440 --> 2:33:39.480 which is store three days or three weeks of food, 2:33:39.920 --> 2:33:43.600 store three days or three weeks of water, Store enough 2:33:43.680 --> 2:33:46.840 portable power to keep your phone and other essentials charged 2:33:46.920 --> 2:33:50.680 for three days or three weeks. Build yourself a go bag, 2:33:51.000 --> 2:33:55.120 stockpile prescription medication you need, keep your vehicle in good 2:33:55.160 --> 2:33:57.720 running condition with at least half a tank of gas, 2:33:58.200 --> 2:34:00.680 and get kind of any equipment stone that you might 2:34:00.760 --> 2:34:04.840 want now because it's going to be wildly unavailable when 2:34:04.879 --> 2:34:05.960 a disaster does come. 2:34:06.440 --> 2:34:06.760 Yeah. 2:34:07.520 --> 2:34:12.080 And then on the community side, get to know your neighbors, 2:34:12.440 --> 2:34:18.119 plan with them, help them with documentation and preparedness components. 2:34:19.000 --> 2:34:22.320 Make sure vulnerable neighbors know that you are a potential resource. 2:34:22.879 --> 2:34:27.400 Connect with activist groups locally. Build an affinity group. Maybe 2:34:27.440 --> 2:34:31.240 you and your friends are really into communication infrastructure, and 2:34:31.400 --> 2:34:34.800 when a disaster does strike, you just have that ready 2:34:34.840 --> 2:34:37.879 to go, while you know some other affinity group is 2:34:38.320 --> 2:34:42.240 making sure that everyone's fed Yeah, divide and conquer. I 2:34:42.240 --> 2:34:45.879 don't like that phrase, but it works, right Now, make 2:34:45.920 --> 2:34:49.920 a plan for securely communicating, and make plans for meeting 2:34:50.040 --> 2:34:53.760 up when things go wrong, and even when things kind 2:34:53.800 --> 2:34:56.640 of go wrong with your plan, you know, have a 2:34:56.640 --> 2:34:57.560 backup plan. 2:34:57.760 --> 2:35:02.520 Yeah, primary, alternate, contingency and emergency plan if you want 2:35:02.520 --> 2:35:04.960 to use the cringe military acronym. 2:35:05.200 --> 2:35:08.920 Yeah. And then these are some kind of questions that 2:35:08.920 --> 2:35:11.760 I think you can ask your community when you're trying 2:35:11.760 --> 2:35:15.480 to think about building resiliency. What disasters are dangerous do 2:35:15.520 --> 2:35:17.680 you feel like you're likely to face? How can you 2:35:17.720 --> 2:35:21.360 maintain access to food, water, and communication? How will you 2:35:21.480 --> 2:35:25.039 interact with other groups? What skills do you currently have? 2:35:25.240 --> 2:35:28.160 What skills do you wish you had? Can you learn 2:35:28.240 --> 2:35:32.119 those skills? How will you foster care and address specific 2:35:32.160 --> 2:35:35.760 needs of individuals in your community? How will your community 2:35:35.800 --> 2:35:39.840 defend itself? And how can we resist despair and maintain 2:35:39.879 --> 2:35:42.840 access to joy? Which I think that last one really 2:35:43.320 --> 2:35:44.880 gets lost a lot. 2:35:45.600 --> 2:35:48.280 Yeah, yeah, people forget about that one, but it's important 2:35:48.959 --> 2:35:53.480 even in like really dark places, like I've attended civil wars, right, Like, 2:35:54.360 --> 2:35:56.840 maintaining access to joy is important, Like I've sat with 2:35:56.879 --> 2:36:00.720 people in Kurdistan and sung songs and played hambled, which 2:36:00.760 --> 2:36:03.080 is like I think the English word is ood, it's 2:36:03.120 --> 2:36:06.600 an instrument, and wild drones were vombit and so we 2:36:06.640 --> 2:36:09.160 didn't want to go outside at night. Golly, And like, 2:36:09.680 --> 2:36:11.000 let me tell you, it's a lot better if you 2:36:11.040 --> 2:36:13.600 have people to sing songs with and sitting on your own. 2:36:14.280 --> 2:36:17.240 Yeah, I'm putting a songbook in my go bag now 2:36:17.400 --> 2:36:18.640 that's that's happening. 2:36:19.000 --> 2:36:22.360 Yeah. Yeah, these people had a folder like they came 2:36:22.400 --> 2:36:26.800 equipped with like laminated shit, like they were ready to rock. 2:36:27.120 --> 2:36:27.480 Golly. 2:36:28.040 --> 2:36:31.560 Yeah, that's kind of what I got, you know. Yeah, 2:36:31.720 --> 2:36:34.360 that's a great place for people to start. We're going 2:36:34.400 --> 2:36:35.920 to be covering a lot more of this stuff, so 2:36:36.160 --> 2:36:39.600 like you will hear more about water and food and 2:36:39.640 --> 2:36:40.959 all the other things. 2:36:40.680 --> 2:36:41.640 That we spoke about. 2:36:42.160 --> 2:36:44.080 Will try and do at least one of these episodes 2:36:44.120 --> 2:36:46.280 a month, and mean, where can people find you if 2:36:46.280 --> 2:36:49.840 they have questions, if they want to listen to other episodes. 2:36:49.879 --> 2:36:51.960 Maybe you've Live That the World Is Dying or otherwise 2:36:52.000 --> 2:36:52.440 reach out. 2:36:53.040 --> 2:36:56.320 Yeah, if you want to hear more about anything that 2:36:56.480 --> 2:36:59.640 I've talked about, then you can listen to Live Like 2:36:59.680 --> 2:37:03.160 the World is Dying. Wherever you get podcasts, where an 2:37:03.320 --> 2:37:07.800 entirely listener supported podcast with zero ad breaks. And you 2:37:08.200 --> 2:37:10.840 can find more of what our publishers, Strangers in a 2:37:10.879 --> 2:37:14.840 Tangled Wilderness does, including books and other podcasts we put 2:37:14.840 --> 2:37:17.760 out at Tangled Wilderness dot org, or you can support 2:37:17.840 --> 2:37:21.320 us on Patreon dot com slash Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness. 2:37:21.800 --> 2:37:24.400 And if you want to ask me personally about things, 2:37:24.400 --> 2:37:28.240 you can find me on Instagram at Shadowtale Artificery, where 2:37:28.240 --> 2:37:31.160 you can see other stuff that I do. That isn't 2:37:31.200 --> 2:37:32.560 this beautiful? 2:37:32.800 --> 2:37:33.160 Thank you? 2:37:33.400 --> 2:37:33.600 Yeah? 2:37:33.680 --> 2:37:34.000 Thanks? 2:37:56.240 --> 2:38:02.200 Holy balls, it's executive dysfunction. We call this right, right, 2:38:02.959 --> 2:38:05.800 executive disorder, a rectile dysfunction? 2:38:06.080 --> 2:38:06.240 Right? 2:38:06.840 --> 2:38:07.360 What do we do? 2:38:07.640 --> 2:38:08.200 Who are we? 2:38:08.720 --> 2:38:09.039 This is? 2:38:09.240 --> 2:38:10.000 It could happen here. 2:38:10.160 --> 2:38:14.840 Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the 2:38:14.879 --> 2:38:17.240 White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. 2:38:17.879 --> 2:38:19.440 Robert Evans, I'm. 2:38:19.320 --> 2:38:22.200 Sorry, Garrison. I thought we were anarchists, and being an 2:38:22.240 --> 2:38:25.320 anarchist means never knowing what you're doing or why. 2:38:25.480 --> 2:38:30.800 Yeskank of Phim, I'm Garrison Davis, joined by James Stout 2:38:30.840 --> 2:38:33.039 and Robert Evans and Sophie Lichterman. 2:38:33.200 --> 2:38:35.560 I wasn't planning on being in mic but it was very. 2:38:35.400 --> 2:38:37.640 Ap well, it happens very able. 2:38:38.440 --> 2:38:42.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't plan for shit, Sophie. 2:38:42.640 --> 2:38:43.880 It's always chaos here. 2:38:44.240 --> 2:38:47.760 This week we are covering the week of July twenty 2:38:47.800 --> 2:38:49.000 third to July thirtieth. 2:38:49.520 --> 2:38:51.120 Robert Evans, how are you doing? 2:38:51.680 --> 2:38:52.160 You know what? 2:38:52.440 --> 2:38:55.560 I'm chillin' like Gillan. I'm not because I am not 2:38:55.680 --> 2:38:59.879 in a security prison in Tallahassee, Florida, a federal prison. 2:39:00.040 --> 2:39:03.280 It's actually not maximum security. So let's let's talk about 2:39:03.400 --> 2:39:06.680 friend of the pod Gilan Maxwell. We all love Gillan, 2:39:07.040 --> 2:39:07.400 you know. 2:39:07.480 --> 2:39:08.440 You speak for yourself. 2:39:08.920 --> 2:39:11.959 You love her. I lover her. Jeffrey Epstein loved her. 2:39:12.400 --> 2:39:14.119 Oh but I don't love her. 2:39:14.480 --> 2:39:18.080 So Gilan Maxwell is the daughter of a guy named 2:39:18.200 --> 2:39:20.879 Robert Maxwell. We've done it behind the bastards on him. 2:39:20.920 --> 2:39:21.760 It was a fun one. 2:39:22.160 --> 2:39:26.320 Bartley amazing character, basically a guy who in his early 2:39:26.400 --> 2:39:30.400 life was a character from inglorious bastards, like a Jewish 2:39:30.440 --> 2:39:33.760 refugee who signed up to fight the Nazis for the 2:39:33.800 --> 2:39:37.359 Brits and killed his way across Western Europe, murdering dozens 2:39:37.360 --> 2:39:40.440 of ss men and then after the war he became 2:39:40.520 --> 2:39:44.840 a financier and destroyed scientific publishing, and also tried to 2:39:45.520 --> 2:39:48.320 ignite a rivalry with Rupert Murdoch and failed so badly 2:39:48.360 --> 2:39:50.200 at it that he stole a billion dollars from his 2:39:50.200 --> 2:39:53.360 company's own pensions funds and then killed himself when all 2:39:53.360 --> 2:39:54.440 of that was coming out. 2:39:54.520 --> 2:39:57.600 So he really is like the average Quentin Tarantino character. 2:39:57.640 --> 2:40:00.600 Yeah, what I would describe him as if Quintin for 2:40:00.640 --> 2:40:03.160 some reason did a sequel to Inglorious Bastards and it 2:40:03.280 --> 2:40:06.959 was just based on Brad Pitt's character becoming like a 2:40:07.040 --> 2:40:09.599 crooked finance executive in the seventies. 2:40:09.200 --> 2:40:11.320 Coming like the Wolf of Wall Street type guy. 2:40:11.560 --> 2:40:15.200 Yes, exactly like that. That's his backstory. Did you use 2:40:15.240 --> 2:40:18.200 to murder Nazis? Yeah, but now I'm like foreclosing a 2:40:18.280 --> 2:40:19.200 children's hospital. 2:40:20.280 --> 2:40:22.879 Anyways, So Gillan. 2:40:22.640 --> 2:40:25.800 Had a rough upbringing because like her older brother had 2:40:25.840 --> 2:40:27.640 a car accident when she was very young, and he 2:40:27.720 --> 2:40:31.320 was in a coma for years. Her mom basically spent 2:40:31.360 --> 2:40:33.400 a whole year just at the hospital with him. She 2:40:33.560 --> 2:40:36.840 was ignored for a period of time, and then her 2:40:36.879 --> 2:40:41.520 parents tried to overcompensate and massively. Anyway, she has the 2:40:41.600 --> 2:40:44.160 kind of upbringing you would kind of expect for a 2:40:44.200 --> 2:40:48.280 socialite who winds up both poor as a young adult 2:40:48.280 --> 2:40:51.119 when her dad dies. Not real person poor, but rich 2:40:51.160 --> 2:40:53.480 person poor. When her dad dies and the family is 2:40:53.520 --> 2:40:56.080 disgraced and all their businesses fail, and she flees to 2:40:56.120 --> 2:40:57.959 New York to try to start a new life, and 2:40:58.000 --> 2:40:59.760 the thing that makes sense to her, based on her 2:40:59.720 --> 2:41:01.959 back ground, being the kind of person that she is, 2:41:01.959 --> 2:41:06.119 is to find a rich man and cling to him. 2:41:06.600 --> 2:41:08.760 And that rich man happens to be Jeffrey Epstein, who 2:41:08.800 --> 2:41:11.280 starts off by kind of renting her a luxury apartment. 2:41:11.920 --> 2:41:15.120 They begin dating. At some point they stop dating. It's 2:41:15.200 --> 2:41:18.840 unclear to me how they would have defined their relationship 2:41:18.920 --> 2:41:21.800 at any point internally. The way they would always say 2:41:21.840 --> 2:41:24.879 it is they dated for a while, and then Jeffrey 2:41:24.879 --> 2:41:26.680 had a thing where he would say, like he never 2:41:26.959 --> 2:41:29.960 he doesn't have exes. He promotes his exes to friends, 2:41:30.120 --> 2:41:34.120 right and Gilan Maxwell was like his best friend and 2:41:34.440 --> 2:41:38.200 his business partner. She helped him run not his actual 2:41:38.280 --> 2:41:42.480 businesses that made money, the finance stuff, but his life 2:41:42.760 --> 2:41:45.920 right like she ordered his houses, she managed his housekeepers, 2:41:46.280 --> 2:41:50.480 and she helped recruit girls and women because they recruited 2:41:50.520 --> 2:41:53.400 both for the stuff that Jeffrey is famous for, right, 2:41:53.440 --> 2:41:57.039 both to give him massages and in the context of Epstein, 2:41:57.040 --> 2:42:00.560 the massage always means sex. And also recruit the girls 2:42:00.560 --> 2:42:03.720 that they flew around on the Lilita Express and you know, 2:42:03.800 --> 2:42:07.000 handed off to different prominent men who wanted to have 2:42:07.080 --> 2:42:09.320 sex with teenagers or very young women. 2:42:09.480 --> 2:42:09.640 Right. 2:42:10.040 --> 2:42:14.200 Gillan was intimately involved in all of this. She was 2:42:14.520 --> 2:42:19.840 convicted in twenty twenty two after Epstein's suicide and sentenced 2:42:19.840 --> 2:42:22.640 to twenty years in prison for all of you know, 2:42:22.840 --> 2:42:25.879 the sex crimes that she had a part in. She 2:42:26.040 --> 2:42:30.200 was transferred to a federal prison in Tallahassee, Florida in 2:42:30.280 --> 2:42:33.680 July of twenty twenty two. She was initially held in 2:42:33.959 --> 2:42:38.920 the normal dorm like in general population, right, and the 2:42:39.720 --> 2:42:41.680 prison wing that she was in is was kind of 2:42:41.680 --> 2:42:44.960 colloquially known as the snake pit because it was a 2:42:45.080 --> 2:42:47.800 very nasty place with quite a lot of violence. To 2:42:47.879 --> 2:42:51.279 quote from an article in the Tallahassee Democrat quote, Maxwell 2:42:51.360 --> 2:42:54.160 created a ruckus when she had a falling out with 2:42:54.200 --> 2:42:57.080 several women. After Maxwell reported two other inmates known as 2:42:57.120 --> 2:43:00.120 Los Cubanas for trying to extort her Epstein's partner and 2:43:00.160 --> 2:43:02.640 crime refused to use the shower stalls, where violent attacks 2:43:02.640 --> 2:43:04.800 are more common, and was escorted by a guard to 2:43:04.920 --> 2:43:08.320 and from her prison library job. So she has a 2:43:08.520 --> 2:43:11.520 kind of rough early time in prison because she's in 2:43:11.600 --> 2:43:15.760 general pop. She rolls on these other inmates, and that 2:43:15.959 --> 2:43:19.560 starts the process of her getting special treatment. She has 2:43:19.640 --> 2:43:23.160 since been moved because of her good behavior to an 2:43:23.240 --> 2:43:26.760 honor dorm, where there are thirty or forty quarters for 2:43:26.879 --> 2:43:30.200 the best behaved inmates. She's we don't really know for sure, 2:43:30.200 --> 2:43:32.520 but it's very likely that she has a private room 2:43:32.640 --> 2:43:37.400 with storage. She's teaching yoga classes at the prison. She 2:43:37.480 --> 2:43:40.760 has at some period of time volunteered at the library. 2:43:41.200 --> 2:43:44.600 She also teaches etiquette classes. And I want to make 2:43:44.600 --> 2:43:46.200 it clear I don't have an issue actually with the 2:43:46.200 --> 2:43:48.560 fact that she's teaching yoga or doing etiquette classes. I 2:43:48.560 --> 2:43:50.680 think if we're going to have prisons, prisoners should have 2:43:50.760 --> 2:43:53.480 access to stuff like that. I think that's all perfectly fine. 2:43:53.680 --> 2:43:56.600 I think her getting special treatment for good behavior I 2:43:56.640 --> 2:43:59.240 don't really love. But I also don't think we should 2:43:59.240 --> 2:44:01.360 have prisons that can be described as a snake pit. 2:44:01.520 --> 2:44:04.360 So I'm kind of on the mixed end here. Another 2:44:04.360 --> 2:44:05.879 thing that's kind of come out during her time in 2:44:05.920 --> 2:44:09.200 prison is that she has become a vegan. She was 2:44:09.240 --> 2:44:11.039 not for most of her life, but she did when 2:44:11.040 --> 2:44:12.920 she came to prison. She's complained a lot about the 2:44:13.000 --> 2:44:15.879 quality of the food, which is never spiced and it's 2:44:15.920 --> 2:44:19.080 just kind of like unflavored tofu, and Peta has advocated 2:44:19.080 --> 2:44:22.320 on her behalf, which is pretty consistent for Peta. She's 2:44:22.360 --> 2:44:26.640 also said, and there's significant evidence that this prison regularly 2:44:26.680 --> 2:44:30.320 serves rotten food that is bad for inmate health. It 2:44:30.440 --> 2:44:33.240 is a Florida prison. When Gillan talks about it, she 2:44:33.280 --> 2:44:36.119 has in several interviews the bad conditions in her prison. 2:44:36.480 --> 2:44:41.360 She's not lying or whining. These prisons are not acceptable quality, right, 2:44:41.480 --> 2:44:44.760 Like the Florida Department of Corrections and the Federal Department 2:44:44.800 --> 2:44:47.920 of Corrections are horrible and they're doing a horrible job 2:44:47.959 --> 2:44:50.640 of running these places. The fact that I don't feel 2:44:50.640 --> 2:44:53.959 specifically compassion for Gilan Maxwell doesn't mean I want to 2:44:54.040 --> 2:44:57.840 like minimize the reality of the conditions in these prisons, 2:44:58.040 --> 2:45:02.240 because most of the prisoners there not massive sex child 2:45:02.320 --> 2:45:07.280 sex traffickers, you know, yeah, sure, so anyway, FCI Tallahassee, 2:45:07.320 --> 2:45:10.199 which is where she's at. She's now in the prison's 2:45:10.280 --> 2:45:13.880 honor dorm and is still trying to get out of prison. 2:45:14.160 --> 2:45:17.000 So she's made a couple of claims prior to the 2:45:17.000 --> 2:45:18.720 most recent stuff that is in the news right now 2:45:18.760 --> 2:45:20.880 that we're talking about. One of the things she's tried 2:45:20.920 --> 2:45:24.000 to argue is that the terms of Jeffrey Epstein's when 2:45:24.040 --> 2:45:26.640 he was initially prosecuted back in like two thousand and seven, 2:45:26.680 --> 2:45:29.240 two thousand and eight, the terms of his plea bargain 2:45:29.800 --> 2:45:34.160 should apply to her basically like she was included in that, 2:45:34.400 --> 2:45:36.640 and so she shouldn't be liable for the things that 2:45:36.680 --> 2:45:40.440 she got sentenced for more recently, I am not familiar 2:45:40.480 --> 2:45:43.000 with the exact legal ease her lawyer is using to 2:45:43.040 --> 2:45:44.959 make that argument, but that is the gist of the 2:45:45.080 --> 2:45:48.039 argument her lawyer is trying to make. It's not going 2:45:48.080 --> 2:45:51.560 to work. What might work is her getting a pardon. 2:45:52.200 --> 2:45:54.920 So that's probably the thing you've seen about Gillan in 2:45:54.920 --> 2:45:59.080 the news most recently is that she is basically asking Congress, 2:45:59.120 --> 2:46:01.680 if you want me to tell testify about Epstein and 2:46:01.720 --> 2:46:05.199 about the client list and everything. I can't talk openly 2:46:05.520 --> 2:46:08.360 if I'm in prison, and there's a degree to which, like, again, 2:46:08.440 --> 2:46:11.520 I don't support this at all, but she's not wrong 2:46:11.560 --> 2:46:14.920 that like, well, yeah, you really couldn't talk total Like 2:46:15.080 --> 2:46:18.240 it really isn't reasonable, unreasonable to say, yeah, someone's probably 2:46:18.240 --> 2:46:20.160 not going to be able to talk openly about all 2:46:20.200 --> 2:46:23.119 of the wealthy, powerful people they saw committing sex crimes 2:46:23.360 --> 2:46:26.920 while they're locked up in prison. Right, Not that Prayinger 2:46:27.000 --> 2:46:28.760 is the right thing to do either. I'm just like, yeah, 2:46:28.800 --> 2:46:30.959 I mean, I bet someone could have you killed. I 2:46:31.000 --> 2:46:32.920 bet there are people that you have dirt on that 2:46:32.959 --> 2:46:34.520 could have you killed in that prison. 2:46:34.800 --> 2:46:35.160 Yeah. 2:46:35.240 --> 2:46:38.160 Well, and she's currently appealing her conviction to this room court, 2:46:38.200 --> 2:46:41.000 and she's arguing, yes, that if she were to testifying 2:46:41.000 --> 2:46:44.400 for Congress, she would need immunity for anything that she says. 2:46:44.680 --> 2:46:47.920 Right, So that's what she's asking for now. That said, 2:46:48.240 --> 2:46:51.400 she has already very recently been talking with the Department 2:46:51.440 --> 2:46:52.120 of Justice. 2:46:52.680 --> 2:46:55.599 Yes, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blank. 2:46:55.640 --> 2:46:58.880 Todd Blanche had nine hours of meetings over two days. 2:46:59.000 --> 2:46:59.240 Wow. 2:46:59.360 --> 2:47:00.120 Okay. 2:47:00.480 --> 2:47:04.320 Now there are no public statements about what she said 2:47:04.560 --> 2:47:07.560 during this. We don't know what this was about. We 2:47:07.680 --> 2:47:10.959 do know there was some sort of immunity agreement. 2:47:10.760 --> 2:47:13.840 A limited immunity agreement for those meetings, and what she 2:47:13.959 --> 2:47:15.800 was saying in those meetings, okay. 2:47:15.480 --> 2:47:18.720 And we don't know precisely what it covered, but it 2:47:18.760 --> 2:47:22.080 probably means that basically, you're already in for twenty years. 2:47:22.240 --> 2:47:24.680 If you talk to us about stuff that may implicate 2:47:24.720 --> 2:47:28.840 you in crimes you haven't been charged for yet, you 2:47:28.920 --> 2:47:31.520 get immunity on That is what I would guess, right, 2:47:32.040 --> 2:47:36.080 but we don't actually know precisely, like what was happening here, 2:47:36.160 --> 2:47:40.160 and yeah, there's Barrett Berger, a former federal prosecutor in 2:47:40.200 --> 2:47:43.640 New York, told NBC News that he thinks that the 2:47:43.640 --> 2:47:47.120 interviews Blanche did were probably performative. Quote, it may just 2:47:47.160 --> 2:47:48.560 be a way of being able to say, look, we 2:47:48.640 --> 2:47:51.600 dotted every eye and crossed every t There's value in 2:47:51.680 --> 2:47:53.440 being able to say that we've tried to speak to 2:47:53.560 --> 2:47:56.720 everyone that we possibly could, including the co defendant. Right. 2:47:57.040 --> 2:48:01.120 So that's her argument is basically, yeah, Blanche met with 2:48:01.200 --> 2:48:03.360 Gillan so that they could say they're talking with her 2:48:03.400 --> 2:48:05.560 because she's not going to talk to Congress and they're 2:48:05.600 --> 2:48:07.720 probably not going to offer her immunity. 2:48:08.200 --> 2:48:11.200 And it's hard to imagine that. Like Donald Trump's own 2:48:11.240 --> 2:48:15.160 Department of Justice is going to be investigating Donald Trump's 2:48:15.200 --> 2:48:19.560 connection to Jeffrey Epstein. So whatever comes of these meetings, 2:48:19.879 --> 2:48:23.440 I do not think that through these meetings she's going 2:48:23.520 --> 2:48:26.160 to incriminate Donald Trump and that's going to be handled 2:48:26.160 --> 2:48:29.920 in any serious way. If anything, something like the opposite 2:48:29.959 --> 2:48:32.600 is happening, where she's talking about people who are not 2:48:32.720 --> 2:48:35.959 Donald Trump, Yes, and in doing so trying to gain 2:48:36.000 --> 2:48:40.000 some sort of favor with the President. As Trump has said, 2:48:40.640 --> 2:48:44.640 like last week, that he's quote unquote allowed to pardon her, 2:48:45.440 --> 2:48:47.520 not saying that he will, not saying that he plans to, 2:48:47.920 --> 2:48:51.240 but that he's allowed to. I can play that clip 2:48:51.280 --> 2:48:52.160 here for the audience. 2:48:52.400 --> 2:48:53.280 Yeah, let's do that. 2:48:53.400 --> 2:48:54.520 Would you consider a. 2:48:54.440 --> 2:48:58.039 Pardon or a commutation for Kelan Maxwell if you love something? 2:48:58.120 --> 2:49:01.200 I haven't thought about that really recommending that someone. 2:49:01.200 --> 2:49:03.280 I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have. 2:49:03.360 --> 2:49:03.880 Not thought of it. 2:49:04.000 --> 2:49:06.920 I wouldn't rule it out to her and why. And 2:49:07.040 --> 2:49:09.400 in addition to that, he's made a couple of weird 2:49:09.560 --> 2:49:13.199 comments about Gillan over the years. When he's asked about 2:49:13.320 --> 2:49:17.520 Jeffrey Now, he's pretty negative about him. He tends to 2:49:17.520 --> 2:49:19.840 be like, look, we knew for a while, like we 2:49:19.840 --> 2:49:22.360 were never close and you know, we had a falling out. 2:49:22.680 --> 2:49:25.400 He's a bad guy, right, that's what he said. More recently, 2:49:25.800 --> 2:49:30.320 He's never really been negative about Gillan. More recently, the 2:49:30.440 --> 2:49:33.280 thing that I recall him saying is that, like he 2:49:33.360 --> 2:49:36.800 wishes her well when she was sentenced, Yeah, which is 2:49:36.879 --> 2:49:39.520 kind of weird, right, And I don't know if it's 2:49:40.320 --> 2:49:43.760 kind of a result of the fact that she has 2:49:43.920 --> 2:49:48.240 something on him and he's trying to you know, I 2:49:48.240 --> 2:49:50.160 don't know. That seems unlikely. That seems less likely to 2:49:50.160 --> 2:49:52.400 me than like maybe he actually just kind of liked 2:49:52.440 --> 2:49:56.280 Gilan Maxwell. But I don't actually know. And anyway, that's 2:49:56.320 --> 2:49:59.000 the situation. We don't know. Is Trump going to pardon her. 2:49:59.440 --> 2:50:01.920 He hasn't said he's going to. But as Garrison noted, 2:50:02.120 --> 2:50:04.240 it's weird of him to insist that he has the 2:50:04.360 --> 2:50:07.320 right to just kind of randomly, Yeah, why would you 2:50:07.400 --> 2:50:09.040 do that if you weren't thinking about it. 2:50:09.480 --> 2:50:12.039 Yeah, you can just say no, Like you can just say. 2:50:11.879 --> 2:50:14.800 No, I'm not gonna like, I'm not going to pardon her. 2:50:15.000 --> 2:50:15.480 Yeah. 2:50:15.520 --> 2:50:19.360 Well, and Trump has continued to make weird comments about 2:50:19.400 --> 2:50:22.200 like Epstein and has elaborated on his falling out with 2:50:22.200 --> 2:50:25.720 Epstein the past week, first stating that they broke up 2:50:25.720 --> 2:50:29.560 their friendship because Epstein was just poaching hotel staff, which 2:50:29.640 --> 2:50:33.320 contradicts Yeah, earlier state was Trump made. And then on 2:50:33.480 --> 2:50:38.680 July twenty ninth, he had this much more elaborate conversation 2:50:38.920 --> 2:50:44.519 on Air Force one about how Epstein was taking employees 2:50:44.600 --> 2:50:48.760 from his spa and specifically like naming known victims of 2:50:49.200 --> 2:50:50.000 sex trafficking. 2:50:50.560 --> 2:50:54.480 Yeah, he specifically named Virginia Jeffrey fairly recently too when 2:50:54.520 --> 2:50:55.640 talking about like people. 2:50:55.800 --> 2:50:58.120 It was yeah on the twenty nine Yeah, I think 2:50:58.160 --> 2:51:00.400 a reporter asked if he was one of the people, 2:51:00.440 --> 2:51:04.160 and he said, yes, I believe she was, right, Yeah. 2:51:03.879 --> 2:51:06.920 He says, I think so he stole her as the quote. 2:51:07.000 --> 2:51:09.520 Ye, Yeah, there was a reporter who introduced the name 2:51:09.560 --> 2:51:11.119 into the conversation to sweet clear. 2:51:11.800 --> 2:51:16.200 So, you know, do I think she's going to get pardoned? 2:51:16.720 --> 2:51:19.600 It seems really unlikely to me. And it seems really 2:51:19.640 --> 2:51:23.400 unlikely to me in part because how would that Like, 2:51:23.520 --> 2:51:27.080 I have trouble imagining even that not causing huge problems 2:51:27.080 --> 2:51:29.280 for him. Right, I'm not one of these This is 2:51:30.040 --> 2:51:33.400 guys who's constantly like, ah, Trump's Trump's finally, you know, 2:51:33.440 --> 2:51:34.760 we've got Donnie on. 2:51:34.760 --> 2:51:38.039 The road, finally got But this is this is. 2:51:38.000 --> 2:51:40.160 A big one, right, this is a big one to 2:51:40.280 --> 2:51:44.400 his followers, to just Americans in general. Something like seventy 2:51:44.400 --> 2:51:47.200 percent of the country or more is following this story 2:51:47.400 --> 2:51:50.400 actively and has a strong opinion on it, and there's 2:51:50.680 --> 2:51:55.560 zero electoral gain and pardoning Gillan fucking Maxwell right like 2:51:55.640 --> 2:51:58.680 it's a it's a it. It strikes me as unlikely 2:51:58.760 --> 2:52:01.320 because it seems like a serious damaging risk. 2:52:01.840 --> 2:52:04.280 The only thing they might try to do is if 2:52:04.280 --> 2:52:06.600 they try to paint like her herself as like a 2:52:06.680 --> 2:52:07.800 victim of Epstein. 2:52:08.320 --> 2:52:08.720 Right there. 2:52:08.840 --> 2:52:11.880 There's been like a Newsmax segment trying to argue this, 2:52:12.040 --> 2:52:14.160 so like you can see some sectors of the right 2:52:14.160 --> 2:52:17.240 who are trying to like create room for Trump to 2:52:17.280 --> 2:52:20.120 maneuver here. But I don't know if that will be 2:52:20.600 --> 2:52:22.480 a compelling narrative nationwise. 2:52:22.560 --> 2:52:24.160 He's got to lose some people if he does that. 2:52:24.400 --> 2:52:29.000 It seems unlikely, And I don't know. He seems annoyed 2:52:29.120 --> 2:52:31.880 that this is still a news story. He had this 2:52:31.920 --> 2:52:35.400 little Scotland vacation to finish a trade deal with the EU, 2:52:35.440 --> 2:52:38.119 which we'll talk more about next week, But throughout this 2:52:38.680 --> 2:52:43.920 Scotland vacation, he was quite upset that reporters there were 2:52:44.120 --> 2:52:46.600 still asking him about one Jeffrey Epstein. 2:52:46.879 --> 2:52:52.240 Yeah, oldn's normal Jeffreys story. 2:52:53.160 --> 2:52:53.600 Kid with. 2:52:55.440 --> 2:52:57.600 No had nothing to do with it. Only you would 2:52:57.600 --> 2:53:00.439 think that not had nothing to do with it. 2:53:00.600 --> 2:53:02.280 That is that why he cheated at golf? 2:53:02.440 --> 2:53:04.520 You know, that's a good a good call, Sophie. Maybe 2:53:04.520 --> 2:53:06.760 he was off his game because of all of these 2:53:06.800 --> 2:53:09.080 Epstein questions and that's the only reason why he cheated 2:53:09.080 --> 2:53:12.120 at golf this one time and definitely no other times ever, 2:53:13.000 --> 2:53:15.240 truly his most heinous crime. 2:53:15.760 --> 2:53:18.480 Yeah, I guess that's kind of where we end off. 2:53:18.760 --> 2:53:21.000 I'm not gonna say he wouldn't, right. I'll never say 2:53:21.000 --> 2:53:23.520 there's no way Gilan Maxwell gets pardoned because this is 2:53:23.600 --> 2:53:27.280 twenty twenty five and be crazy. It's like, there's there's 2:53:27.440 --> 2:53:30.200 credible evidence that he is considering a pardon for fucking 2:53:30.280 --> 2:53:30.800 p Diddy. 2:53:31.320 --> 2:53:31.520 Yeah. 2:53:31.680 --> 2:53:34.360 Deadlin reported that yesterday. 2:53:34.480 --> 2:53:37.440 And again, if it is right, it's if he does. 2:53:37.959 --> 2:53:40.600 We know why. It's because p Diddy probably has some 2:53:40.600 --> 2:53:42.879 shit on Trump, right, and p Diddy has the kind 2:53:42.879 --> 2:53:45.680 of resources that he could have like a a dead 2:53:45.720 --> 2:53:48.400 fall system set up right that like if something happens 2:53:48.440 --> 2:53:50.680 to him, the info gets out like he that that 2:53:50.760 --> 2:53:54.280 is not beyond the kind of guy that P. Diddy is, 2:53:54.480 --> 2:53:57.160 Whereas I don't know that Epstein ever really prepared for 2:53:57.200 --> 2:53:58.119 that eventuality. 2:53:58.440 --> 2:54:02.600 No, I don't think so like Mark Epstein, Jeffrey's brother 2:54:03.200 --> 2:54:08.120 was interviewed by the BBC last week and mentioned how 2:54:08.200 --> 2:54:12.199 Jeffrey was talking about like possible information he has regarding 2:54:12.240 --> 2:54:15.680 to the twenty sixteen election. But it does not sound 2:54:15.720 --> 2:54:17.879 like there was any kind of like system for this 2:54:17.959 --> 2:54:21.080 information or that even any other people knew besides Jeffrey. 2:54:21.120 --> 2:54:22.480 I can play that clip here too. 2:54:23.080 --> 2:54:27.080 Did he tell you who he knew things about it? Well? 2:54:27.120 --> 2:54:31.080 In the twenty sixteen election, we were talking about the election, 2:54:31.360 --> 2:54:33.840 and Jeffrey told me that if he said what he 2:54:33.920 --> 2:54:36.520 knew about the candidates, they would have to cancel the election. 2:54:36.840 --> 2:54:38.039 That's a quote, It's. 2:54:37.920 --> 2:54:38.800 Exactly what he told me. 2:54:38.879 --> 2:54:41.199 He said, if I said what I knew about the candidates, 2:54:41.440 --> 2:54:42.760 they'd have to cancel the election. 2:54:42.959 --> 2:54:45.280 He didn't tell any what he knew, but that's what 2:54:45.320 --> 2:54:45.879 he said. 2:54:46.800 --> 2:54:50.160 Yeah, in general election, was like a very compartmentalized guy. 2:54:50.400 --> 2:54:54.840 And I don't know we'll see what happens with all 2:54:54.879 --> 2:54:57.400 of these cases. It's going to be worth following. But 2:54:57.440 --> 2:54:59.920 it doesn't seem to be going away the way that 2:55:00.080 --> 2:55:03.480 a lot of Trump stuff does, because I mean, it's Epstein, right, 2:55:03.520 --> 2:55:05.600 You've gotten too much of your base hooked on this 2:55:05.680 --> 2:55:08.480 story for them to just give it up because it's 2:55:08.560 --> 2:55:11.440 inconvenient now. So I don't know what's gonna happen, but 2:55:11.640 --> 2:55:16.439 we'll keep watching and you keep listening to these ads. Beautiful, 2:55:28.879 --> 2:55:33.119 Oh my god, those ads were so good. I feel 2:55:33.160 --> 2:55:36.640 like that picture of Bill Clinton getting a back massage 2:55:36.760 --> 2:55:38.680 from Nope, I. 2:55:38.640 --> 2:55:40.600 Don't know if we should do that in this episode. 2:55:41.320 --> 2:55:45.440 Yeah, yeah, Anyway, what's next? What do we talk about next? 2:55:45.720 --> 2:55:49.560 Speaking of pardons and Epstein, I'm gonna I'm gonna play 2:55:49.600 --> 2:55:54.800 one other clip from Trump's Scotland vacation where he's trying 2:55:54.800 --> 2:55:58.520 to reiterate his whole Epstein hoax narrative and in doing 2:55:58.560 --> 2:56:02.359 so invokes something thing that relates to our next topic. 2:56:02.440 --> 2:56:04.320 But I'll play this clip here. 2:56:04.680 --> 2:56:07.879 So hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion. I 2:56:07.879 --> 2:56:10.840 can say this. Those files were run by the worst 2:56:10.879 --> 2:56:16.240 come on earth. They were run by Komi. They were 2:56:16.320 --> 2:56:20.080 run by Garland. They were run by Biden and all 2:56:20.120 --> 2:56:24.480 of the people that actually ran the government, including the autopen. 2:56:25.480 --> 2:56:29.320 Those files were run for four years by those people. 2:56:29.560 --> 2:56:31.840 If they had anything, I assumed they would have released it. 2:56:32.400 --> 2:56:35.480 The whole thing is a hoax. They ran the files. 2:56:36.120 --> 2:56:40.320 I was running against somebody that ran the files. 2:56:40.440 --> 2:56:43.600 The autopen. That's going to be our first mini mini 2:56:43.680 --> 2:56:47.480 story this episode. So, the autopen is this tool that 2:56:47.600 --> 2:56:51.440 helps with the signing of documents. It automates the process 2:56:51.680 --> 2:56:55.240 by replicating a signature. And this is a machine long 2:56:55.440 --> 2:56:58.920 used in the White House. It's for like hundreds of years. 2:56:59.360 --> 2:57:01.280 Barack Obama the first one to officially use it to 2:57:01.280 --> 2:57:06.280 sign led legislation. But this is a regular tool, right 2:57:06.480 --> 2:57:09.080 And the past few months, Trump has been increasingly obsessed 2:57:09.120 --> 2:57:14.200 with the autopen in trying to attack Biden's administration and 2:57:14.560 --> 2:57:17.240 somehow like take some of the blame away from Biden 2:57:17.240 --> 2:57:21.680 and onto the people who Biden was surrounded by. In June, 2:57:21.720 --> 2:57:24.840 Trump ordered an investigation into Biden's alleged use of the 2:57:24.879 --> 2:57:28.280 autopen and if other figures in Biden's White House were 2:57:28.400 --> 2:57:32.720 using the autopen without Biden's knowledge. Acting as shadow president. 2:57:33.440 --> 2:57:36.920 I'm going to play a clip here from Fox News 2:57:37.000 --> 2:57:40.560 discussing the possible ramifications of the autopen's use. 2:57:40.959 --> 2:57:43.039 Mister Chairman, you mentioned that you're looking at some of 2:57:43.080 --> 2:57:45.920 the pardons that were done under President Biden and the 2:57:46.000 --> 2:57:48.920 use of the AUTOPEN, doctor Fauci being one of them, 2:57:49.160 --> 2:57:51.320 talking about whether they were legitimate or not. Are you 2:57:51.440 --> 2:57:54.440 also looking into Biden's judicial appointments as well. 2:57:56.440 --> 2:58:00.200 Absolutely everything that was signed with the AUTOPEN, especially in 2:58:00.280 --> 2:58:03.600 the last year of the Biden presidency. This is when 2:58:04.280 --> 2:58:07.119 all the books that are being written, all the tell 2:58:07.160 --> 2:58:11.480 all interviews that are being recorded from his former disgruntled 2:58:11.560 --> 2:58:15.199 staffers and staffers who are trying to preserve the reputation 2:58:15.720 --> 2:58:19.200 for future employment. They're all saying that Joe Biden was 2:58:19.240 --> 2:58:23.520 in a deep mental decline. This raises an issue whether 2:58:23.600 --> 2:58:28.160 these pardons, whether these judicial appointments, and whether these executive. 2:58:27.760 --> 2:58:28.960 Orders are legal. 2:58:29.280 --> 2:58:32.120 I believe that if this investigation keeps going in the 2:58:32.160 --> 2:58:35.040 way that it's going, that's going to very serious concerns 2:58:35.080 --> 2:58:38.240 about whether or not Joe Biden even what was going 2:58:38.280 --> 2:58:41.560 on around him, much less whether he authorized the use 2:58:41.840 --> 2:58:43.959 of his signature on all of this stuff. I think 2:58:44.040 --> 2:58:46.960 all of these are in jeopardy of being declared null 2:58:47.080 --> 2:58:49.120 and void in a court of law. And that's a 2:58:49.120 --> 2:58:51.360 big deal for the Trump administration because so much of 2:58:51.400 --> 2:58:54.800 what Trump is up against in court now with these 2:58:55.440 --> 2:58:59.119 liberal biased Biden appointed judges is the fact that they're 2:58:59.280 --> 2:59:03.520 using and citing some of these executive orders as reason 2:59:03.959 --> 2:59:08.119 to to to throw out President Trump's agenda and President 2:59:08.160 --> 2:59:09.480 Trump's executive orders. 2:59:09.680 --> 2:59:12.360 So that gets into this the scope of things that 2:59:12.400 --> 2:59:15.400 we're dealing with here. It's it's it's not just pardons. 2:59:15.800 --> 2:59:18.600 This this started by talking about Biden's pardons this past 2:59:18.720 --> 2:59:22.360 March on a on a truth on Truth social Trump 2:59:22.520 --> 2:59:25.240 claimed that Biden's preemptive partons and members of the January 2:59:25.240 --> 2:59:30.080 sixth Investigation House Committee are quote hereby declared void, vacant, 2:59:30.160 --> 2:59:33.360 and of no further force of effect because of the 2:59:33.400 --> 2:59:36.680 fact that they were done by auto pen unquote, And 2:59:36.760 --> 2:59:39.160 like this just isn't true that there there is no 2:59:39.320 --> 2:59:43.280 constitutional requirement that pardons even be signed. He cannot void 2:59:43.320 --> 2:59:45.840 pardons like this allegedly, right, who knows what they'll try 2:59:45.879 --> 2:59:49.480 to like do by like enforcement. But according to like 2:59:49.520 --> 2:59:53.560 the legal the legal systems currently in place, this this 2:59:53.720 --> 2:59:56.879 like isn't real. But if they do try to legitimately 2:59:56.920 --> 2:59:59.400 go after like judicial appointments and try to create this 2:59:59.480 --> 3:00:02.320 conspiracy see of this like shadow cabinet that was secretly 3:00:02.360 --> 3:00:05.280 running the government. I will be interested to see where 3:00:05.320 --> 3:00:07.760 that goes and the extent to which they think they 3:00:07.800 --> 3:00:09.800 can pull that off, especially as a way to like 3:00:09.879 --> 3:00:14.720 bypass judges who are blocking various Trump policies from being 3:00:14.720 --> 3:00:15.560 put into effect. 3:00:15.760 --> 3:00:16.360 Yeah. 3:00:16.440 --> 3:00:18.360 I mean, I've just always been of the opinion that 3:00:18.360 --> 3:00:20.760 we shouldn't even be allowing these people to use pins, 3:00:20.879 --> 3:00:25.280 you know, niform. We already had the perfect way of 3:00:25.800 --> 3:00:28.240 putting law on the books, and we need to go back. 3:00:28.280 --> 3:00:29.000 We need to return. 3:00:29.280 --> 3:00:31.280 Yeah, then to books exists in or is it all 3:00:31.320 --> 3:00:33.520 in the clay tablets? As God in. 3:00:33.920 --> 3:00:37.360 All clay tablets, James, We've got him, robber the whole 3:00:37.360 --> 3:00:38.720 internet clay tablets. 3:00:38.760 --> 3:00:42.400 Yeah, because none of these laws are actually written on clay, 3:00:42.480 --> 3:00:44.680 and therefore, I for one belief that they do not 3:00:44.680 --> 3:00:45.240 apply to me. 3:00:45.360 --> 3:00:47.760 That they're not valid. You know, you've heard of e 3:00:47.920 --> 3:00:49.520 ink screens. We need eat clay. 3:00:50.040 --> 3:00:52.760 That is the only way that a law could be 3:00:52.800 --> 3:00:56.240 passed in these United States. Otherwise I retain my sovereignty as. 3:00:56.120 --> 3:00:58.279 A citizens that's what it's about. 3:00:58.640 --> 3:01:02.600 Trump does pride himself on always using the pen to 3:01:02.640 --> 3:01:05.680 sign things himself, except for like fan mail and like 3:01:05.720 --> 3:01:07.960 thank you cards, and which he gets his staff to 3:01:08.000 --> 3:01:11.760 use the auto pen to sign those toilup orders. But 3:01:12.160 --> 3:01:15.199 for all serious matters he prides himself on only using 3:01:15.240 --> 3:01:15.720 the pen. 3:01:16.160 --> 3:01:17.600 Not just the pen Garrison. 3:01:18.000 --> 3:01:20.360 I believe he has a special Trump edition shoppie has 3:01:20.400 --> 3:01:21.760 a big bucket of them on his desk. 3:01:21.800 --> 3:01:24.720 If a call correctly that he then did, they sell 3:01:24.760 --> 3:01:26.959 them off off to it my mistake. 3:01:27.120 --> 3:01:31.160 Uses his special sharpie to sign all documents, including the 3:01:31.160 --> 3:01:35.160 next two topics, which are some executive orders. 3:01:35.280 --> 3:01:35.560 Shit. 3:01:35.800 --> 3:01:38.160 So there's been a number of executive orders in the 3:01:38.200 --> 3:01:42.400 past few weeks that are forming what's what the White 3:01:42.400 --> 3:01:46.600 House is calling the AI Action Plan, which largely seeks 3:01:46.600 --> 3:01:50.000 to loosen restrictions and regulations on AI and accelerate the 3:01:50.000 --> 3:01:52.520 building of data centers to power AI training so that 3:01:52.600 --> 3:01:56.959 American companies can better compete in the global market. But 3:01:57.840 --> 3:02:00.760 there was another AI executive order signed to last week 3:02:00.800 --> 3:02:06.320 on July twenty third, which is titled preventing Woke AI 3:02:06.640 --> 3:02:11.280 in the Federal Government. Wow, incredible. I'm going to read 3:02:11.720 --> 3:02:16.080 the first two sentences, which are which are long sentences 3:02:16.640 --> 3:02:21.320 of the AI Executive Order on woke AI quote. In 3:02:21.480 --> 3:02:26.040 the AI context, DEI includes the suppression or distortion of 3:02:26.120 --> 3:02:29.600 factual information about race or sex, manipulation of racial or 3:02:29.600 --> 3:02:33.760 sexual representation in model outputs, incorporation of concepts like critical 3:02:33.840 --> 3:02:39.440 race theory, transgenderism, unconscious bias, intersectionality, and systemic racism, and 3:02:39.520 --> 3:02:44.560 discrimination on the basis of race or sex. DEI displaces 3:02:44.560 --> 3:02:47.480 a commitment to truth in favor of preferred outcomes, and, 3:02:47.840 --> 3:02:52.680 as recent history illustrates, poses an existential threat to reliable AI. 3:02:53.760 --> 3:02:57.560 For example, one major AI model changed the race or 3:02:57.640 --> 3:03:01.560 sex of historical figures, including the Pope, the Founding Fathers, 3:03:01.600 --> 3:03:05.160 and vikings when prompted for images because it was trained 3:03:05.160 --> 3:03:08.800 to prioritize DEI requirements at the cost of accuracy. Another 3:03:08.879 --> 3:03:11.959 AI model refused to produce images celebrating the achievements of 3:03:12.080 --> 3:03:16.039 white people, even while complying in the same request for 3:03:16.120 --> 3:03:19.480 people of other races. And yet another case, an AI 3:03:19.520 --> 3:03:22.680 model asserted that a user should not quote unquote misgender 3:03:23.040 --> 3:03:26.080 another person, even if necessary to stop a new killar 3:03:26.160 --> 3:03:31.400 apocaly Official White House Executive Order. 3:03:31.320 --> 3:03:34.040 Documentary The last one is one of the fucking funniest 3:03:34.040 --> 3:03:35.160 things I've ever heard. 3:03:35.440 --> 3:03:37.640 Would you suck off one hundred apes to save one 3:03:37.720 --> 3:03:38.280 human life? 3:03:38.520 --> 3:03:42.680 Well that absolutely not absolutely happens, but I would do 3:03:42.760 --> 3:03:43.360 the reverse. 3:03:44.480 --> 3:03:47.480 This is this is like this is crazy stuff, right, 3:03:47.560 --> 3:03:49.680 This this is stuff that you would see like daily 3:03:49.720 --> 3:03:52.640 wire posters talking about like four years ago. 3:03:53.040 --> 3:03:56.680 This is like debate me bro like blue tick twitter stuff. 3:03:56.680 --> 3:03:56.880 Now. 3:03:57.000 --> 3:03:59.800 Yeah, but even even talking about you know, like how 3:03:59.879 --> 3:04:04.280 like things like unconscious bias and systemic racism cannot be mentioned, right, 3:04:04.879 --> 3:04:08.119 those are things that specifically Ben Shapiro has like led 3:04:08.160 --> 3:04:11.680 their charge on attacking in mainstream in mainstream like political 3:04:11.680 --> 3:04:14.720 disagreement for a while now like arguing that systemic racism 3:04:15.120 --> 3:04:18.119 is not a thing. Yeah, and now you have orders 3:04:18.160 --> 3:04:23.160 specifically targeting systemic racism being used in AI outputs. So 3:04:23.720 --> 3:04:26.880 part of what this executive order actually seeks to do 3:04:27.680 --> 3:04:30.000 is make it so that the government can only use 3:04:30.120 --> 3:04:32.680 large language models that are developed with the principles of 3:04:32.760 --> 3:04:39.119 quote unquote truth seeking and ideological neutrality, requiring that these 3:04:39.160 --> 3:04:43.359 are nonpartisan tools that do not manipulate responses in favor 3:04:43.400 --> 3:04:49.400 of ideological dogmas such as DEEI. In effect, the order 3:04:49.440 --> 3:04:53.760 seeks to use government contracts as bribes to make companies 3:04:54.720 --> 3:04:57.800 ensure that their AIS are not woke, with the Trump 3:04:57.840 --> 3:05:01.160 administration serving as the judge of what is and isn't 3:05:01.200 --> 3:05:04.840 woke and threatening to pull contracts and force companies to 3:05:04.840 --> 3:05:09.560 pay cancelation fees if their AI language model is deemed 3:05:09.600 --> 3:05:10.800 to be too woke. 3:05:11.360 --> 3:05:13.400 I never want to hear the word woke again. 3:05:14.160 --> 3:05:15.360 I'm so fucking tired. 3:05:15.760 --> 3:05:16.680 That's exhausting. 3:05:17.040 --> 3:05:19.840 Yeah, it's Jim Crow for the for the computer these 3:05:19.879 --> 3:05:20.400 ways what. 3:05:20.320 --> 3:05:23.760 This is like as a part of this AI action plan, 3:05:24.520 --> 3:05:27.160 Like they're like third or fourth main principle is quote 3:05:27.200 --> 3:05:31.960 unquote upholding free speech in frontier models. Updating federal procurement 3:05:31.959 --> 3:05:34.879 guidelines to ensure that the government only contracts with frontier 3:05:35.080 --> 3:05:37.720 large language model developers who ensure that their systems are 3:05:37.760 --> 3:05:41.680 objective and free from top down ideological bias. That's the 3:05:41.720 --> 3:05:46.080 opposite of free speech. Yeah, what do you We will 3:05:46.240 --> 3:05:48.840 like make sure that they only do the specific thing 3:05:48.879 --> 3:05:51.800 that we want, and we're calling that upholding free speech. 3:05:51.959 --> 3:05:55.879 Just say you want Mecca Hitler Rock just just. 3:05:55.400 --> 3:05:59.039 Just say he has Grock has indeed said. 3:05:58.840 --> 3:06:00.000 That I know. 3:06:00.160 --> 3:06:03.480 Oh, so that's the first executive order that I want 3:06:03.520 --> 3:06:07.000 to talk about. The next one is less brain roddy 3:06:07.200 --> 3:06:11.240 and more perrific, actually scary. Like I'm sure the WOKEI 3:06:11.280 --> 3:06:14.360 one will turn out to be bad, but this next 3:06:14.360 --> 3:06:18.959 one is like extremely extremely fascistic, and I don't use 3:06:19.000 --> 3:06:24.000 that word lightly. This order is titled ending Crime and 3:06:24.080 --> 3:06:29.240 Disorder on America's Streets. I'll start by quoting one paragraph quote, 3:06:29.560 --> 3:06:35.400 Endemic vagrancy, disorderly behavior, sudden confrontations, and violent attacks have 3:06:35.480 --> 3:06:40.800 made our cities unsafe. Shifting homeless individuals into long term 3:06:40.920 --> 3:06:44.680 institutional settings for humane treatment through the appropriate use of 3:06:44.720 --> 3:06:49.520 civil commitment, will restore public order. The Attorney General shall 3:06:49.560 --> 3:06:54.080 prioritize available funding to support the expansion of drug courts 3:06:54.080 --> 3:06:58.840 and mental health courts for individuals for which such diversion 3:06:59.280 --> 3:07:01.119 serves public safety. 3:07:02.320 --> 3:07:06.240 Yeah, this is bad, This is yeah some yeah again, 3:07:06.320 --> 3:07:08.880 people like to like to use fascism a lot, but yeah, 3:07:08.879 --> 3:07:11.840 this is some Nazi shit like this, this is. 3:07:11.840 --> 3:07:14.320 A thing that the Nazis did. 3:07:14.640 --> 3:07:18.400 Yep, let's get more into what this order outlines. So 3:07:18.879 --> 3:07:21.720 this executive order directs the Attorney General to reverse quote 3:07:21.760 --> 3:07:27.760 unquote judicial precedents prohibiting involuntary institutionalization and to seek the 3:07:27.840 --> 3:07:31.800 quote termination of consent decrees that impede the United States 3:07:31.840 --> 3:07:35.120 policy of encouraging the civil commitment of individuals with mental 3:07:35.160 --> 3:07:40.080 illnesses who pose risks to themselves or the public, or 3:07:40.600 --> 3:07:45.120 or are living on the streets. It starts by, you know, 3:07:45.120 --> 3:07:47.480 if someone's at risk to themselves, and then expands that 3:07:47.760 --> 3:07:50.600 to just include everybody if they're deemed to be at 3:07:50.680 --> 3:07:54.039 risk to the public or just happen to be living outside. Yeah, 3:07:54.080 --> 3:07:58.440 you can now get put in what is essentially Trump's 3:07:58.480 --> 3:08:00.920 new version of a seen asylums. 3:08:01.080 --> 3:08:03.400 Yeah, that's really scary. 3:08:03.959 --> 3:08:09.760 Yeah, I think like we shouldn't not mention that a 3:08:09.800 --> 3:08:14.040 lot of this shit it's directly downstream from democratic mass 3:08:14.120 --> 3:08:17.360 in large cities and especially in California, pushing forrint voluntary 3:08:17.360 --> 3:08:18.280 commitment of vunt House. 3:08:18.400 --> 3:08:21.040 No, this is like Gavin Newsom's wet dream. Yes, yeah, 3:08:21.080 --> 3:08:22.440 this is Todd Gloria shit. 3:08:22.800 --> 3:08:25.840 Honestly, this is unfortunately very bipartisan when we are at 3:08:25.879 --> 3:08:28.280 least talk about the political elite, and to a sizable extent, 3:08:28.320 --> 3:08:29.600 when we're talking about the electorate. 3:08:29.720 --> 3:08:29.879 Right. 3:08:30.000 --> 3:08:32.720 Yeah, this is an issue on which the left has 3:08:33.120 --> 3:08:37.560 catastrophically lost just like immigration. Unlike immigration, it is not 3:08:37.640 --> 3:08:40.240 an issue in which we're starting to see the pendulum 3:08:40.320 --> 3:08:43.880 swing back. Because yeah, number one, I mean, I guess 3:08:43.959 --> 3:08:47.360 we have not yet seen the kind of violence deployed 3:08:47.360 --> 3:08:51.080 against the houseless by agents of the state at scale 3:08:51.200 --> 3:08:53.959 in public that we're seeing right now on migrants. Right Like, 3:08:54.000 --> 3:08:57.760 there's not a federal agency going to war on the houseless. 3:08:57.760 --> 3:09:01.000 It's the same kind of violence that's existed previs But 3:09:01.160 --> 3:09:04.400 also like there's a huge amount of propaganda against this, 3:09:04.560 --> 3:09:09.520 Like every city business association you know, is constantly complaint 3:09:09.520 --> 3:09:11.280 because they see this as like, oh, this is why 3:09:11.720 --> 3:09:14.520 people don't want to come into stores anymore. It's the houseless, 3:09:14.560 --> 3:09:16.600 you know, it's not fucking Amazon or whatever. 3:09:16.959 --> 3:09:18.720 Yeah, it's absolute bullshit. 3:09:19.000 --> 3:09:21.960 Yeah, I mean some of that might change, though, because 3:09:22.000 --> 3:09:26.520 Trump is seeking to mobilize federal resources to start doing enforcement. Yes, 3:09:26.840 --> 3:09:30.320 the order direction Trump's cabinet to be giving grants to 3:09:30.480 --> 3:09:33.280 state and local governments to help enact civil commitment and 3:09:33.320 --> 3:09:37.320 institutional treatment, with the priority of grants being directed to 3:09:37.320 --> 3:09:41.080 states and municipalities that already have and enforce strong anti 3:09:41.120 --> 3:09:45.600 homeless policies. The order allows for emergency federal law enforcement 3:09:45.640 --> 3:09:48.879 assistance funds to be used for encampment removal, and directs 3:09:48.879 --> 3:09:50.920 the Secretary of Health and Human Services to remove federal 3:09:51.000 --> 3:09:55.320 funding from quote unquote harm reduction or quote unquote safe 3:09:55.400 --> 3:09:59.959 consumption programs, as well as quote ending support for how 3:10:00.080 --> 3:10:05.480 using first policies that deprioritize accountability and fail to promote treatment, recovery, 3:10:05.520 --> 3:10:08.760 and self sufficiency. So not only are they increasing LA 3:10:08.800 --> 3:10:13.120 enforcement capacity to apprehend mentally ill or houses people and 3:10:13.200 --> 3:10:17.039 put them into institutional facilities, but they are cutting all 3:10:17.080 --> 3:10:19.960 federal funds from programs that are deemed to be harm 3:10:20.000 --> 3:10:23.320 reduction or safe consumption, which are programs that have been 3:10:23.360 --> 3:10:27.120 shown to work across the globe, as well as ending 3:10:27.280 --> 3:10:31.720 housing first policies, which is what most homeless advocates actually 3:10:31.840 --> 3:10:34.160 push for as a way to solve homelessness. 3:10:34.400 --> 3:10:36.480 Yeah, because there're evidence based and they work. 3:10:36.959 --> 3:10:39.760 The order also requires that recipients of federal housing and 3:10:39.879 --> 3:10:44.720 homelessness assistants to force participants who suffer from substance abuse, disorder, 3:10:44.800 --> 3:10:49.560 or serious mental illnesses into quote unquote treatment or mental 3:10:49.600 --> 3:10:54.320 health services as a condition of participation unquote, and that 3:10:54.320 --> 3:10:56.720 the recipients of these federal funds are now required to 3:10:56.800 --> 3:11:01.000 collect quote unquote health related information from everyone who has 3:11:01.040 --> 3:11:04.000 provided assistance and is required to share that data with 3:11:04.160 --> 3:11:07.920 law enforcement quote in circumstances permitted by law. 3:11:08.240 --> 3:11:09.600 Don't love that. That's horrible. 3:11:09.760 --> 3:11:12.840 Yeah, that's really just not align we went across. That's 3:11:12.959 --> 3:11:14.199 so scary, yep. 3:11:14.360 --> 3:11:19.080 The weaponization of health data for law enforcement, yes services, Yeah. 3:11:19.160 --> 3:11:22.240 Yeah, And unfortunately it's exactly the thing that like for 3:11:22.560 --> 3:11:26.360 years advocates for mental health care have been trying to 3:11:26.680 --> 3:11:30.200 get across, like, hey, it's okay to go in to 3:11:30.280 --> 3:11:32.640 seek treatment, like this is stuff, isn't going to be 3:11:32.680 --> 3:11:33.680 weaponized against you. 3:11:33.879 --> 3:11:35.160 And that's not true anymore. 3:11:35.200 --> 3:11:37.800 Like the degree to which, outside of the actual danger 3:11:37.920 --> 3:11:40.680 of law enforcement getting this data and using it, the 3:11:41.320 --> 3:11:45.840 setback to mental health care to people feeling having any 3:11:45.920 --> 3:11:49.680 chance of feeling safe to pursue it is like incomprehensible, 3:11:49.760 --> 3:11:51.080 Like it's it's so bad. 3:11:51.360 --> 3:11:55.280 Yeah, And not only are they seeking to go after users, 3:11:55.840 --> 3:12:00.840 the recipients of federal Housing and Homelessness assistance that operate 3:12:01.080 --> 3:12:04.320 drug injection sites or quote unquote safe conception sites will 3:12:04.320 --> 3:12:07.400 be reviewed by the Attorney General for violation of federal 3:12:07.480 --> 3:12:11.800 law and bring civil or criminal action in appropriate cases, 3:12:12.160 --> 3:12:15.879 literally going after people who try to create environments where 3:12:16.000 --> 3:12:17.920 people who use drugs can do so in a method 3:12:18.000 --> 3:12:19.199 that will not kill them. 3:12:19.400 --> 3:12:19.640 Yeah. 3:12:19.760 --> 3:12:22.280 Yeah, people who are handing out clean needles, you know, 3:12:22.360 --> 3:12:24.520 safe injection sites, that sort of thing, any kind of 3:12:24.520 --> 3:12:25.640 harm reduction. 3:12:25.560 --> 3:12:27.640 Which will now be under investigation by the Attorney General. 3:12:28.200 --> 3:12:31.160 Yeah yeah, which is going to get people killed, as 3:12:31.200 --> 3:12:34.360 going to imprison people who have been doing nothing but 3:12:34.440 --> 3:12:37.760 helping other people. Like, it's just comprehensively a nightmare. 3:12:38.040 --> 3:12:41.840 It's going to lead to more communicable diseases spreading that 3:12:42.000 --> 3:12:44.920 we don't like. Some of these safe injection sites have 3:12:44.959 --> 3:12:48.039 prevented spreading, right, needle exchanges have prevented When we combine 3:12:48.040 --> 3:12:50.000 it with our f case stuff like, this is going 3:12:50.040 --> 3:12:52.000 to be a major public health issue on top of 3:12:52.080 --> 3:12:52.800 everything else. 3:12:53.600 --> 3:12:56.959 So on top of expanding drug courts and mental health courts. 3:12:57.840 --> 3:13:00.920 I will will end with one final quote the order quote. 3:13:01.200 --> 3:13:05.080 They will ensure that homeless individuals arrested for federal crimes 3:13:05.080 --> 3:13:09.320 are evaluated to determine whether they are sexually dangerous persons 3:13:09.959 --> 3:13:14.520 and certified accordingly for civil commitment. And finally, Trump's cabinet 3:13:14.640 --> 3:13:18.800 is directed to quote assess federal resources to determine whether 3:13:18.879 --> 3:13:21.720 they may be directed towards ensuring that detainees with serious 3:13:21.760 --> 3:13:24.040 mental illnesses are not released into the public because of 3:13:24.080 --> 3:13:27.840 the lack of forensic bed capacity at appropriate local, state, 3:13:28.280 --> 3:13:32.640 and federal jails or hospitals unquote. It remains to be 3:13:32.680 --> 3:13:35.680 seen the scale in which this will be implemented. Usually 3:13:35.680 --> 3:13:39.480 these orders have a series of months in which the 3:13:39.520 --> 3:13:44.040 cabinet members will then propose actual implementation policies that then 3:13:44.120 --> 3:13:48.400 can be implemented across the country. But certainly what is 3:13:48.440 --> 3:13:51.320 in the order itself is incredibly worrying. 3:13:51.959 --> 3:13:56.000 Yeah, yep, we probably shouldn't let this guy become president again. 3:13:56.360 --> 3:13:56.600 Yeah. 3:13:57.400 --> 3:14:00.120 Oh, well, do you know what we should do right now? Oh? 3:14:00.200 --> 3:14:03.959 Yeah, yeah, ads, discoda, ads, sure have fun with that. 3:14:04.240 --> 3:14:22.080 Everyone talking of shouldn't have let that guy become president again. 3:14:22.360 --> 3:14:24.879 One of the reasons that I did become president again 3:14:25.040 --> 3:14:28.720 is because the Democrats were incapable of fielding a candidate 3:14:28.720 --> 3:14:31.199 who could say genocide bad. 3:14:31.680 --> 3:14:33.279 Yeah. That might have helped. 3:14:33.280 --> 3:14:36.080 I mean, it's a fucking low bar and they failed 3:14:36.080 --> 3:14:36.600 to clear it. 3:14:36.600 --> 3:14:37.400 It might have helped. 3:14:37.600 --> 3:14:41.360 It might have helped. According to new data from New York, 3:14:41.480 --> 3:14:45.000 where two thirds or more of New York Democratic primary 3:14:45.040 --> 3:14:48.880 voters agree with Zora Mondonney's positions on Israel and arresting 3:14:48.959 --> 3:14:52.039 Benjamina Yahoo and the fifty seven percent say that they 3:14:52.120 --> 3:14:55.000 might oppost Democrats who do not endorse Mandanni for mayor. Yeah, 3:14:55.000 --> 3:14:58.600 because so it seems like, yeah, maybe the Democrats should 3:14:58.600 --> 3:15:00.520 have done something about that. It seems like the majority 3:15:00.560 --> 3:15:01.720 of their base wants that. 3:15:02.240 --> 3:15:04.000 Well, I'm not one of those. I always hate it 3:15:04.000 --> 3:15:07.160 when people like try to reduce the loss to one thing, 3:15:07.240 --> 3:15:11.320 because there's a number of but like one like Michigan. 3:15:11.400 --> 3:15:17.000 We can probably blame the loss of Michigan on Pamala's 3:15:17.080 --> 3:15:20.160 failures to call Gaza a genocide or to take any 3:15:20.240 --> 3:15:23.600 kind of a stance separating her from Biden on that matter. Right, Like, 3:15:23.640 --> 3:15:26.280 there's a decent amount of evidence to suggest that maybe 3:15:26.320 --> 3:15:29.520 other states, you know, other things went wrong, but like this, 3:15:29.760 --> 3:15:33.120 that was a significant reason why the Democrats failed. 3:15:33.320 --> 3:15:33.520 Yeah. 3:15:33.600 --> 3:15:36.080 Look at the way, if we're about to discuss how 3:15:36.160 --> 3:15:39.279 the entirety of Canada while we have been recording this 3:15:39.320 --> 3:15:41.800 is announced that it is joining the UK and France 3:15:41.879 --> 3:15:46.400 and plans to conditionally recognize a Palestinian state. Yeah, and 3:15:46.560 --> 3:15:49.840 the reason that is happening is because Israel's genocide in 3:15:49.879 --> 3:15:54.480 Gaza is continuing. Yeah, July has been the deadliest month 3:15:54.600 --> 3:15:57.280 for the past year and a half. One person who's 3:15:57.320 --> 3:16:00.199 died every twelve minutes. One hundred and ninety nine people 3:16:00.200 --> 3:16:02.320 have died every day, four hundred and one of them 3:16:02.560 --> 3:16:07.119 have been injured. We saw this week nineteen people died 3:16:07.160 --> 3:16:10.440 of starvation. None of these people are dying because of 3:16:10.480 --> 3:16:12.640 a famine that's caused by the weather or some other 3:16:12.720 --> 3:16:16.080 natural cause. Right, this is entirely a choice, and it's 3:16:16.240 --> 3:16:19.320 made by people in the Israeli state, very chiefly by 3:16:19.400 --> 3:16:23.800 Benjamin net Yahoo to quote Netyaho. Israel has been forced 3:16:24.040 --> 3:16:27.160 to allow some aid into the Strip, but only a 3:16:27.360 --> 3:16:29.960 tiny fraction of the required aid has made its way in. 3:16:30.840 --> 3:16:34.359 One in five children in Gaza is suffering from acute maultnutrition. 3:16:34.920 --> 3:16:38.520 That figure has tripled since last month, according to the 3:16:38.560 --> 3:16:41.600 World Health Organization. Not only is there not enough food, 3:16:41.720 --> 3:16:44.400 but there are also not enough medical supplies to treat 3:16:44.480 --> 3:16:48.320 people with acute malnutrition. Right when somebody is acutely malnourished, 3:16:48.320 --> 3:16:50.959 you can't just like hand them a sandwich and fix 3:16:51.000 --> 3:16:51.600 a problem. 3:16:52.240 --> 3:16:55.840 This was a major problem when liberating the concentration camps 3:16:55.840 --> 3:16:58.320 at the end of World War Two, American soldiers would 3:16:58.360 --> 3:17:02.120 see these peall who were just as I mean, can 3:17:02.240 --> 3:17:06.120 you've seen pictures of Auschwitz survivors and stuff and just 3:17:06.240 --> 3:17:10.160 act with immediate human compassion and give them whatever they wanted, right, 3:17:10.560 --> 3:17:14.199 And then people got sick and died because you literally can't. 3:17:14.280 --> 3:17:14.680 You have to. 3:17:14.760 --> 3:17:17.520 There's a very specific way when someone is that far 3:17:17.560 --> 3:17:21.120 gone that you have to slowly renourish them whatever. 3:17:21.240 --> 3:17:26.400 Yeah, refeed them, ensure that they are maintaining adequate hydration levels, right, 3:17:26.760 --> 3:17:31.359 therapeutic formula for babies that are malnourished. 3:17:31.360 --> 3:17:34.279 It's more, it's I think there's this like mystic understanding 3:17:34.320 --> 3:17:36.000 that like, oh, starving people are just hungry, so you 3:17:36.040 --> 3:17:37.760 just feed them, and like past a certain point, No, 3:17:37.800 --> 3:17:40.360 they're not just hungry. Something else is going. 3:17:40.560 --> 3:17:44.280 Their bodies are failing and beginning to die, and that 3:17:44.320 --> 3:17:47.120 requires medical attention because they have a very serious medical condition. 3:17:47.680 --> 3:17:52.440 Those medical supplies are not getting into Gaza. The Integrated 3:17:52.520 --> 3:17:56.160 Food Security Phase Classification, generally referred to as the IPC 3:17:56.920 --> 3:17:59.680 stud an alert for what it calls, quote the worst 3:17:59.720 --> 3:18:03.600 case scenario of famine in Gaza this week. In their alert, 3:18:03.680 --> 3:18:06.760 they said, quote, Over twenty thousand children have been admitted 3:18:06.760 --> 3:18:09.520 for treatment for acute malnutrition between April and mid July, 3:18:09.920 --> 3:18:14.160 with more than three thousand severely malnourished. Hospitals have reported 3:18:14.200 --> 3:18:16.760 a rapid increase in hunger related deaths of children at 3:18:16.760 --> 3:18:19.520 a five years of age, with at least sixteen reported 3:18:19.560 --> 3:18:23.160 deaths since the seventeenth of July. That's not really much 3:18:23.720 --> 3:18:25.080 that I think we can say about this other than 3:18:25.320 --> 3:18:31.879 it's absolutely despicable and disgusting as a result of Israel 3:18:32.560 --> 3:18:36.039 carrying out genocide in the open. The UK, France, and 3:18:36.080 --> 3:18:39.039 Canada have indicated, as I said, they're willingness recognize a 3:18:39.120 --> 3:18:41.480 Palestine new state with some conditions. 3:18:42.560 --> 3:18:43.720 Statehood will not. 3:18:43.840 --> 3:18:47.360 Feed these children, rightly, these people will be dead long 3:18:47.440 --> 3:18:50.840 before the state is recognized in US. Something changes. 3:18:51.440 --> 3:18:56.240 Yeah, The whole recognizing statehood for me is less meaningful 3:18:56.720 --> 3:18:59.840 because I care about states, than it is as a 3:18:59.879 --> 3:19:03.240 symbol of the fact that France, you know, and the 3:19:03.360 --> 3:19:06.920 UK and an increasing number of nations who were not 3:19:07.520 --> 3:19:11.119 like imagining them ten years ago, like taking the sense 3:19:11.160 --> 3:19:14.320 of being as critical of Israel as they are, would 3:19:14.320 --> 3:19:16.480 have been a stretch, right, would have been difficult to 3:19:16.560 --> 3:19:20.959 comprehend and I think what it really does showcase is 3:19:21.120 --> 3:19:28.959 how rapidly international opinion has changed and the very dangerous 3:19:29.000 --> 3:19:32.520 situation Israel has gotten itself into. Where I don't think 3:19:32.560 --> 3:19:34.960 it is a matter of immediate danger because the weapons 3:19:35.000 --> 3:19:37.039 aren't going to stop flowing and no one is going 3:19:37.040 --> 3:19:42.680 to stop them militarily, but they are sabotaging the ground 3:19:42.840 --> 3:19:48.400 underneath themselves, and I do think I mean, maybe this 3:19:48.520 --> 3:19:52.760 is me being unreasonably hopeful here, but yeah, like this 3:19:52.920 --> 3:19:56.000 is I think they're setting up their own downfall here, 3:19:56.160 --> 3:19:58.879 you know, not quick enough to save any of these lives, 3:19:58.959 --> 3:20:02.640 but like this is not a good position for them 3:20:02.680 --> 3:20:05.840 to be in a country that's this dependent upon foreign trade, 3:20:06.040 --> 3:20:10.360 upon foreign weapons, upon foreign support for its survival. Like 3:20:10.800 --> 3:20:12.560 they're sabotaging themselves. 3:20:12.640 --> 3:20:16.520 Yeah, they're becoming a parias state, far too slowly given 3:20:16.560 --> 3:20:19.160 what's happened over the last couple of years, but it's happening. 3:20:19.720 --> 3:20:21.800 I'll just finish, I guess by saying that Israel has 3:20:21.840 --> 3:20:25.120 agreed to make tactical pauses, which is I don't know 3:20:25.120 --> 3:20:27.959 what that really means to allow AID to enter The 3:20:28.080 --> 3:20:32.720 IPC report suggesting media actions to protect life, but it 3:20:32.760 --> 3:20:35.879 concludes a quote, none of this is possible unless there 3:20:35.920 --> 3:20:39.160 is a ceasefire, and there is no sign of that 3:20:39.440 --> 3:20:44.560 immediate future. Let's talk about immigration, shall we something something 3:20:44.600 --> 3:20:47.440 that is also pretty much a downer. I guess the 3:20:47.440 --> 3:20:50.959 State Department is rolled back it's visa interview waiver. This 3:20:51.080 --> 3:20:53.280 was a pandemic era thing right that people didn't have 3:20:53.320 --> 3:20:56.480 to come into the consulate and actually do an interview 3:20:56.520 --> 3:20:59.720 with a physical human for their visa. This will result 3:20:59.720 --> 3:21:03.200 in assive delays at consulates around the world and will 3:21:03.240 --> 3:21:06.600 mean that visas are inaccessible for some people entirely right, 3:21:06.879 --> 3:21:10.960 because getting to a consulate alone is a barrier for them. 3:21:11.040 --> 3:21:14.600 Rate or another expense, and it's a risky expense if 3:21:14.640 --> 3:21:18.240 you think you might be turned down. The government has 3:21:18.280 --> 3:21:22.320 been canceling hearings, according to NBC Miami, of people in 3:21:22.320 --> 3:21:27.000 the Everglades Detention Facility aka Alligator Alcatraz, right, it makes 3:21:27.000 --> 3:21:30.240 are also being denied the right to meet with their attorneys. 3:21:30.840 --> 3:21:34.640 The government asserted that everyone there has a final removal order. However, 3:21:34.879 --> 3:21:37.440 at least one attorney with two clients there the NBC 3:21:37.480 --> 3:21:39.640 Miami spoke to said that this was not the case 3:21:39.640 --> 3:21:42.240 for their clients. They don't have final removal orders, but 3:21:42.320 --> 3:21:44.560 nonetheless they are not able. 3:21:44.320 --> 3:21:46.440 To access their due process rights. 3:21:46.920 --> 3:21:50.199 There is a lawsuit challenging this and many other issues 3:21:50.200 --> 3:21:51.920 at the detention center that will be held on the 3:21:52.000 --> 3:21:57.680 eighteenth of August. Talking of removals, we are beginning to 3:21:57.800 --> 3:22:01.400 see first hand accounts from the Venas Whalen people who 3:22:01.400 --> 3:22:05.680 were detained as Scott two hundred and thirty Venezuelan detainees 3:22:05.720 --> 3:22:09.920 there were traded with Venezuela in a three way trade 3:22:10.440 --> 3:22:13.000 for the US citizen ents detained in Venezuela. 3:22:13.120 --> 3:22:15.119 Right, three way trade, I. 3:22:15.080 --> 3:22:18.400 Mean very clearly the people in Seccot were really under 3:22:18.560 --> 3:22:22.760 US custard, yes, right, so it's just a workaround for 3:22:22.800 --> 3:22:23.800 a direct trade. 3:22:24.120 --> 3:22:26.800 Well, or at least I mean they were under the 3:22:26.800 --> 3:22:29.959 custody of a US contractor, right, Like, that's I think 3:22:30.000 --> 3:22:32.800 the accurate way to describe this. Yeah, yes, I think 3:22:32.840 --> 3:22:33.600 that's probably yeah. 3:22:33.680 --> 3:22:36.760 Yeah, Like the US had control over their comings and goings, 3:22:37.120 --> 3:22:39.440 as it's demonstrated by this prisoner exchange. 3:22:39.520 --> 3:22:39.800 Right. 3:22:39.959 --> 3:22:42.760 These reports indicate that the plane landed and immediately Salvatory 3:22:42.800 --> 3:22:45.520 and police entered and beat the men so severely that 3:22:45.600 --> 3:22:48.880 flight attendants on the plane cried, an ice agent told 3:22:48.920 --> 3:22:51.800 them in Spanish quote, this would teach you to enter 3:22:51.879 --> 3:22:54.760 our country illegally. Many of the menahed to point out 3:22:54.760 --> 3:22:57.400 did not enter the country between ports of entry or 3:22:57.440 --> 3:23:01.600 without inspection. They entered via CBP, the only legal way 3:23:01.600 --> 3:23:04.000 for them to claim asylum at that time. The men 3:23:04.040 --> 3:23:07.200 said they were beaten, kicked, and shot with rubber pellets. 3:23:07.640 --> 3:23:10.920 They were never allowed outside, and guards would mock them 3:23:10.920 --> 3:23:13.480 and refuse to tell them the time when they asked. 3:23:14.040 --> 3:23:17.800 Several of them mentioned a fellow detainee who began cutting himself, 3:23:18.360 --> 3:23:20.920 writing messages on the wall in his own blood. 3:23:21.320 --> 3:23:23.080 Those messages include. 3:23:22.959 --> 3:23:26.840 Stop hitting us, we are fathers, we are brothers, we 3:23:26.879 --> 3:23:30.200 are innocent people. Shortly before their release, they say they 3:23:30.240 --> 3:23:33.920 were treated better, allowed to shower and shave, and given medicine. 3:23:34.400 --> 3:23:36.560 When one of the men returned, his neighbors clapped together 3:23:36.640 --> 3:23:39.640 to raise twenty bucks for his mother to decorate the 3:23:39.640 --> 3:23:42.279 house and make him a meal of chicken, rice and plantains. 3:23:42.920 --> 3:23:44.800 That one was particularly hard for me to read for 3:23:44.840 --> 3:23:47.400 some reason, because that specific meal is one I've eaten 3:23:47.440 --> 3:23:49.960 with the people I live with in Kakas, the people 3:23:50.000 --> 3:23:51.480 I was with and at Bari and gap. 3:23:52.640 --> 3:23:53.959 It just seemed very personal to me. 3:23:54.560 --> 3:23:56.879 They also noted that many of the men were detained, 3:23:56.920 --> 3:24:00.320 paryed and read the Bible. They used food packaging and 3:24:00.400 --> 3:24:03.720 even food to make dice and playing cards to play games. 3:24:04.600 --> 3:24:06.320 The things that I read in this are actually, like, 3:24:06.360 --> 3:24:09.760 really heartbreaking, because I've seen folks from Venezuela go through 3:24:09.879 --> 3:24:13.560 really horrific things. Right, they were in the Daryan Gap 3:24:13.560 --> 3:24:15.120 when I was in a Daryan gap. I've seen him 3:24:15.120 --> 3:24:19.720 in outdoor attention. I've also spent time living in Venezuela 3:24:20.120 --> 3:24:23.240 and throughout that like people, Venezuelan people have shown an 3:24:23.280 --> 3:24:26.560 incredible capacity to continue to smile and have joy and 3:24:26.600 --> 3:24:29.080 have a joke and have a laugh. So like seeing 3:24:29.080 --> 3:24:33.080 these men, though thoroughly beaten down by the Salvadarrian state 3:24:33.440 --> 3:24:37.000 is really hard. I'd encourage you all to read the 3:24:37.040 --> 3:24:40.279 pro public apiece, which I will link in the show notes. 3:24:40.600 --> 3:24:43.879 But yeah, it's yeah, it's as bad as we expected 3:24:43.879 --> 3:24:45.920 it to be. Right Like, I don't think for a 3:24:46.000 --> 3:24:48.800 minute that else Albert or expected them to leave. So 3:24:48.800 --> 3:24:51.320 it treated them like I'm sure it treats everybody else there. 3:24:51.600 --> 3:24:54.160 Yeah, right like that, that's what you have to assume, 3:24:54.240 --> 3:24:59.480 and that's why it's important not to limit the discussion 3:24:59.720 --> 3:25:04.320 or the anger to the case of you know, the 3:25:04.400 --> 3:25:06.959 Garcia and you know this couple of people who are 3:25:07.120 --> 3:25:09.520 quote unquote obviously. 3:25:08.959 --> 3:25:10.680 In essence individual people. 3:25:10.800 --> 3:25:15.000 Yeah, like nobody should be in Seacot and quite frankly, 3:25:15.080 --> 3:25:18.480 Hunter Biden's right, you know we should we should invade 3:25:18.480 --> 3:25:20.400 El Salvador if that's what it takes to close this 3:25:20.520 --> 3:25:25.400 place down. Yeah, like fuck them, like it's it's I mean, 3:25:25.760 --> 3:25:28.280 or someone should invade us. I don't fucking know whatever 3:25:28.320 --> 3:25:30.720 it takes to stop this shit, but like it's unacceptable. 3:25:30.800 --> 3:25:33.360 Yeah, it's inhumane. Like a world where this exists is 3:25:33.400 --> 3:25:34.360 not a world we should want. 3:25:34.560 --> 3:25:34.640 No. 3:25:35.360 --> 3:25:38.840 I guess maybe I'll end with some good news and 3:25:38.879 --> 3:25:39.720 a little fundraiser. 3:25:39.760 --> 3:25:41.400 I people want to donate. Good news? 3:25:41.480 --> 3:25:41.640 Is it? 3:25:41.680 --> 3:25:45.160 A judge has ordered the release of kilmar Abrego. I 3:25:45.160 --> 3:25:47.480 guess he prefers to just use the first part of 3:25:47.520 --> 3:25:50.960 his last name, right, Spanish last names come from your 3:25:51.000 --> 3:25:51.600 mother and father. 3:25:51.720 --> 3:25:52.440 Some people used both. 3:25:53.000 --> 3:25:55.640 Want Oh I hadn't caught that actually, Thank you, James. 3:25:55.440 --> 3:25:56.960 Yeah, you are welcome. 3:25:57.360 --> 3:26:00.120 Judge Genie ordered that he'd be returned to Mary and 3:26:00.720 --> 3:26:03.920 not be immediately detained by ICE on his release, and 3:26:03.959 --> 3:26:06.280 the seventy two hours notice be given if they try 3:26:06.320 --> 3:26:10.080 to remove him. I have seen reporting that says she 3:26:10.160 --> 3:26:11.720 has ordered that he can't be deported. 3:26:11.760 --> 3:26:12.800 That's not true. 3:26:13.360 --> 3:26:16.120 She ordered that he have his due process rights if 3:26:16.120 --> 3:26:19.480 they attempt to remove him right. I've also seen reporting 3:26:19.480 --> 3:26:21.080 that he is like out and about on the street. 3:26:21.560 --> 3:26:25.160 That is not true. A Tennessee judge did deny the 3:26:25.200 --> 3:26:28.279 government's attempts to detain him while he awaits criminal trial, 3:26:28.560 --> 3:26:30.560 but at the request of his legal team, his release 3:26:30.600 --> 3:26:33.960 has been stayed by thirty days. I believe this is 3:26:34.000 --> 3:26:37.040 to prevent ICE grabbing him and deporting him immediately when 3:26:37.080 --> 3:26:40.080 he's released or thereafter, right until they've got their clarification 3:26:40.080 --> 3:26:40.560 from judges. 3:26:40.680 --> 3:26:40.920 Enis. 3:26:41.360 --> 3:26:44.680 This comes after Trump administration or the DOJ has failed 3:26:44.720 --> 3:26:47.000 to persuade any of for federal judges that he was 3:26:47.040 --> 3:26:50.800 a leader of MS thirteen. His lawyers have also asked 3:26:50.800 --> 3:26:54.480 a judge to stop DHS posting about this and prejudicing 3:26:54.520 --> 3:26:59.440 a potential jury pool. So, at least in this one case, 3:27:00.040 --> 3:27:02.199 and it is moving closer to being back with his family, 3:27:02.840 --> 3:27:07.120 Let's talk about a fundraiser and then we can finish up. Yeah, 3:27:07.400 --> 3:27:09.959 So I want to talk about Hose Jiron and I 3:27:10.000 --> 3:27:12.760 will just read here from the fundraiser page. Jose was 3:27:12.800 --> 3:27:15.600 taken from his family and detained O Ti Meser Detention 3:27:15.720 --> 3:27:19.680 Center over thirteen months ago. Like many friends, parents and 3:27:19.720 --> 3:27:23.800 siblings in prison at OMDC, Josse has received no medical 3:27:23.840 --> 3:27:28.360 care despite having concerning symptoms for colon cancer. Visibly in 3:27:28.480 --> 3:27:32.000 pain during his previous hearing, Jose showed the judge Ajar 3:27:32.240 --> 3:27:34.600 with one point five to two inches of blood that 3:27:34.680 --> 3:27:37.160 he reported had come out of his rectum. No one 3:27:37.200 --> 3:27:40.280 should have to supper these indignities. If you would like 3:27:40.360 --> 3:27:44.080 to support Josse, you can go to give butter dot 3:27:44.080 --> 3:27:50.680 com slash free Horse Jiron. That's fie Jo S E 3:27:51.120 --> 3:27:53.440 G I R O N. 3:27:54.760 --> 3:27:58.160 I think that's all for us. We reported the news. 3:27:58.640 --> 3:28:00.480 Goodbye, we report the news. 3:28:05.600 --> 3:28:05.760 Hey. 3:28:05.920 --> 3:28:09.040 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 3:28:09.040 --> 3:28:10.760 now until the heat death of the universe. 3:28:11.480 --> 3:28:12.080 It could happen. 3:28:12.120 --> 3:28:14.520 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more 3:28:14.560 --> 3:28:18.840 podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, 3:28:19.000 --> 3:28:22.080 or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 3:28:22.160 --> 3:28:25.000 or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find 3:28:25.040 --> 3:28:28.040 sources for it could happen here. Listened directly in episode descriptions. 3:28:28.400 --> 3:28:29.200 Thanks for listening,