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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to take it happen here show about things falling

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Speaker 3: apart and how to put them back together again. I

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Speaker 3: am your host, Na Wong for another It's both episode,

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Speaker 3: and what I say both, I mean we are talking

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Speaker 3: about something that we've been covering kind of some extent

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Speaker 3: in a bunch of different cities, which is a bunch

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Speaker 3: of hospitals incredibly cowardly decision to not provide trans youth

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Speaker 3: with gender firming care that they need out of a

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Speaker 3: combination of fear, greed, and malice. And with me to

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Speaker 3: talk about one of the places this has been happening

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Speaker 3: and how people have been trying to resist it, and

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Speaker 3: this in this case is the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center,

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Speaker 3: And so we're talking to two people who have been

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Speaker 3: fighting back against they're just hideous cowardice. One is Selena Binnock,

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Speaker 3: who is a therapist at UPMC, and then also Dena Staley,

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Speaker 3: who's the executive director and founder of trans Uniting. Both

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Speaker 3: of you two, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having us, Thank you, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And thank you for doing this genuinely really critical work

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Speaker 3: to try to get this hospital to not severely harm

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Speaker 3: their translations.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Good lord, you know we'd be fighting this battle right right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, Okay, I guess the place I want to

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Speaker 3: start is, can you explain sort of the exact situation

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Speaker 3: of what happened after their sort of recent Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: ruling and what the hospital decided to do and not do.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So, from our understanding, what's been going on with

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Speaker 6: UPMC or the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center is they've

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Speaker 6: decided to end all gender firming care. This includes puberty

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Speaker 6: blockers hormone therapy surgeries for people under nineteen. And this

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Speaker 6: is in response to an executive order that was put

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Speaker 6: out in the spring by the Trump administration saying that

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Speaker 6: providers who continued to prescribe these medically necessary treatments would

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Speaker 6: be at risk of felony charges and that providers who

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Speaker 6: supported accessing the type of care could also be in

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Speaker 6: trouble as far as getting felony charges for aiding and

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Speaker 6: a bedding. So that's the way that the hospital system

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Speaker 6: is interpreting this executive order. So there has been a

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Speaker 6: lot of pushback from multiple providers people throughout UPMC, and

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Speaker 6: the biggest issue is that they created a deadline line

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Speaker 6: of making these changes starting June thirtieth. This is an

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Speaker 6: arbitrary date that they decided within the hospital system. The

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Speaker 6: state was not given to them by any kind of

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Speaker 6: federal proceeding or legal mandate. And after that time they're

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Speaker 6: no longer going to be prescribing these medications. So, starting

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Speaker 6: in April, UPMC stopped taking any new clients who are

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Speaker 6: under nineteen who were looking for hormone replacement therapy or

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Speaker 6: any kind of gender firming care, and starting June thirtieth,

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Speaker 6: they are slowly tapering off all clients from their puberty

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Speaker 6: blockers or hormone therapy over the course of three to

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Speaker 6: six months, depending on what their current medication course is.

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Speaker 6: So what is happening and the thing that I think

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Speaker 6: a lot of people aren't saying out loud, is that

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Speaker 6: they're forcing these teens and young adults to de transition

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Speaker 6: or to or reverse their gender transition, which the fear

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Speaker 6: is that they will start seeking non medically advised care

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Speaker 6: to obtain and get the treatment that they're seeking for.

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Speaker 6: So that is kind of our understanding it's been going

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Speaker 6: on behind the scenes with EPMC.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I also just want to say, like I've had

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Speaker 3: like insurance bullshit, where like I've been taken off of

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Speaker 3: my stuff for like a month.

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Speaker 7: And a half and it sucks. It is awful.

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Speaker 3: It is psychologically painful in ways that are like difficult

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Speaker 3: to describe.

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Speaker 7: It really sucks.

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Speaker 6: Right from a physical standpoint, You're going to get side effects,

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Speaker 6: you have issues, we're coming off these vacations. But from

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Speaker 6: a mental standpoint, right, it's these people who are not

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Speaker 6: your doctors are determining what your care is and it's

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Speaker 6: incredibly harmful.

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Speaker 4: In both the physical and the mental aspect of it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and again we're just talking about healthcare pertrans you

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Speaker 8: at the end of the day, and a lot of them,

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Speaker 8: well puberty bloster and just a therapy are that they're

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Speaker 8: taken away any persons over eighteen years old.

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Speaker 9: They're legally, you.

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Speaker 8: Know, able to vote, should be able to make their

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Speaker 8: own decisions that they want to with their health care.

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Speaker 8: So it's really discussing and disheartening what is happening. And

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Speaker 8: here in Pennsylvania, UPMC was the first large health provider,

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Speaker 8: which is one of the largest in the state, to

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Speaker 8: start this domino effect of stopping care for transit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean it creates this hiteous situation where

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Speaker 3: just like because of a combination of like some gender

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Speaker 3: bureaucrat at the White House was like, I get to

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Speaker 3: decide what your gender is now, and I get to

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Speaker 3: decide what your healthcare is because of that, and then

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Speaker 3: you have this like cascading effect of like some like

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Speaker 3: hospital admin was like, well, I don't know, I think

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Speaker 3: it would be easier for like me personally if you

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Speaker 3: didn't have health care. It just like it's cascading through

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Speaker 3: the hospital system. It's horrible.

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Speaker 6: It's horrible, And I appreciate that data makes that point

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Speaker 6: of we use this phrase gender affirming care to specify

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Speaker 6: what's going on, but it's healthcare. It's you know, not

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Speaker 6: that different from someone being forced to come off diabetes

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Speaker 6: medication or medication for our heart problem. You know, this

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Speaker 6: medication that makes people be able to function in their

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Speaker 6: life and feel safe and physically, well, that's what's being

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Speaker 6: forced out of their lives. So it is healthcare absolutely.

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Speaker 8: And one into spaces that are affirming for them, you know,

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Speaker 8: as kids. You know, so now that they don't have

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Speaker 8: this affirming space have to go into spaces that are

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Speaker 8: not affirming, they will further damage they're ment to you know,

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Speaker 8: when are going to spaces being this gender and all

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Speaker 8: of the other things that have you know, this is

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Speaker 8: what we're talking about, just a safe, affirming place where

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Speaker 8: you can access safe for farming health here.

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Speaker 3: I think it's worth expanding on that a little bit

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Speaker 3: in the sense that like a space that's not affirming

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Speaker 3: isn't like a neutral space. It's one that's actively hostile

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely that also.

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Speaker 7: Just sucks like it's hideous.

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Speaker 3: So it's just like they decided to inflict this on

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Speaker 3: a bunch of children because they're mildly afraid, right.

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Speaker 6: They're afraid, and they're afraid of losing money. And there's

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Speaker 6: no way to say that it's a neutral space, right,

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Speaker 6: It's you're affirming or hostile, and that's the rest great.

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Speaker 6: Kids can't come the doctor and feel safe at this point,

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Speaker 6: and it's.

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Speaker 3: Like cascading issues too.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: We've been talking about this a lot in like the

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Speaker 3: context of someone like the Medicaid cuts, but it's like

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Speaker 3: anything that deters people from going to the doctor, prevents

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Speaker 3: them from going in for like other stuff that you

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Speaker 3: know could be treated pretty easily. But then suddenly if

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Speaker 3: it's like okay, well my hospitals now hostile space, people

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Speaker 3: just like stop going in all together until something really

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Speaker 3: serious happens. I could have been prevented. The hospital wasn't

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Speaker 3: paying assholes to them, like.

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Speaker 6: You know, I think the fear is what we're going

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Speaker 6: to see as the side effects or the consequences of this.

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Speaker 6: You know, we've been told by our supervisors or management

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Speaker 6: at UPMC that we should expect an influx of suicidal

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Speaker 6: teenagers or young adults. Teenagers were struggling with greater symptoms

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Speaker 6: of depression or even psychosis, like acute psychotic symptoms are

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Speaker 6: a studied side effect of abruptly.

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Speaker 4: Coming off your hormone.

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Speaker 6: So not only do you now have these teens inting

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Speaker 6: all who will be scared to access their care feel

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Speaker 6: like they can't use their name, their pronouns, get the

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Speaker 6: care that they need, but they're struggling with mental health

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Speaker 6: crises that are due to the changes that we're seeing

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Speaker 6: due to the withdrawal of their health care.

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Speaker 4: So you're seeing this in so.

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Speaker 6: Many different aspects hitting them and then the providers in

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Speaker 6: this hospital system, and I'm sure we're seeing this all

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Speaker 6: over the country. The providers are here to pick up

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Speaker 6: what's happening. That's a decision based on administrative opinions. And

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Speaker 6: like we said before, fear.

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Speaker 7: So that was shure.

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Speaker 3: A hospital admin told you that that was what was

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Speaker 3: going to happen.

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Speaker 6: So basically after this went into place, I work in

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Speaker 6: a suicide prevention clinic, so we were told by the

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Speaker 6: people that we work with to be ready and stad

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Speaker 6: start having meetings and having discussions around how to better

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Speaker 6: support these kids, knowing that through research we've found that

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Speaker 6: coming off of hormones can cause.

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Speaker 4: Increased risk of suicial thought, psychosis, and depression.

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Speaker 7: Sure as fuck does that.

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Speaker 6: Yes, And so it's like physical side effects, but also

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Speaker 6: if you're forced to detransition, you're going to be physically

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Speaker 6: unsafe in a space where you're no longer maybe passing

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Speaker 6: or you're no longer able to be yourself, so you're

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Speaker 6: a greater risk of harassment and bullying, which then in

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Speaker 6: turn can cause higher risks of suicidal thoughts.

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Speaker 3: It's just like so hideous that there's people like you

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Speaker 3: in the hospital system who can just tell them that

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Speaker 3: this is going to happen, and they're doing it anyways.

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Speaker 6: It's hard because it's coming down so many layers, right,

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Speaker 6: So we're hearing it maybe from our direct management, whose

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Speaker 6: hearts are in the best place. They didn't make these decisions,

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Speaker 6: but where they're being told to follow upper management who

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Speaker 6: are making these decisions. And yes, because they work in

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Speaker 6: the hospital, they know the implications of it. But the

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Speaker 6: fear is outweighing the risks, and that's what we're trying

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Speaker 6: to fight against.

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Speaker 3: The lightest possible response that I have to this as

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about that Lord Farquott line from Shrek where

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Speaker 3: he goes, some of you may die, but that's a

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Speaker 3: sacrifice I'm willing to make.

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Speaker 10: It's like these house relignments are literally doing that.

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Speaker 3: They're like, yeah, no, some of these kids may die,

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Speaker 3: but like whatever, that's fine. I don't have to deal

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Speaker 3: with like maybe a lawsuit in like three years.

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Speaker 8: But they will absolutely still have to deal with lawsuits.

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Speaker 7: Yep, yep.

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Speaker 8: At the end of the day, these are people's basic

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Speaker 8: human rights at the hundred of the times, So there

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Speaker 8: will be lawsuits that happened because of that. Again, what

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Speaker 8: the president did was not flaw at all, what somever.

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Speaker 8: It was just directed to say, hey, this is something

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Speaker 8: that we should do. This is not nothing that he

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Speaker 8: can actually put into law. So what they're doing is

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Speaker 8: off the end of the fans are sufficient to see

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Speaker 8: what they can't get away with and what they can't

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Speaker 8: get away with. This is all about having an autonomy

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Speaker 8: of our healthcare and off all at the end of

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Speaker 8: the day. And they're starting with the most vulnerable population

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Speaker 8: of people, which are trends youth.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they're just testing, right, This is a test to

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Speaker 6: see what else they can get away with.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, this is the test, and they're failing miserably. And

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Speaker 8: instead of fighting them back, you want to fight us back.

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Speaker 8: Instead of standing up and saying we're not going to

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Speaker 8: do this, because it's not going to stop transcape this

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Speaker 8: and never stop with transpit at all whatsoever.

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Speaker 9: It starts with transit.

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Speaker 6: And DTA makes a good point I mean, I know, Mia,

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Speaker 6: you aren't based out of Pennsylvania, but in Pennsylvania, gender

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Speaker 6: farming care remains legal from a state level, and the

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Speaker 6: city of Pittsburgh, which we are located in, has been

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Speaker 6: working really hard to protect trans youth. So the executive

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Speaker 6: order that was put in place by Trump one is

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Speaker 6: not a federal law and two is not at all

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Speaker 6: supported by state or citywide laws.

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Speaker 4: So from a legal standpoint, you know.

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Speaker 6: Which we've learned from consulting with people like Dana who

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Speaker 6: have been doing this work much longer than we have.

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Speaker 6: We've talked with our local ACLU and other government organizations

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Speaker 6: that this would not hold up in court. So you know,

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Speaker 6: that's why the fight I think is starting here and

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Speaker 6: hoping to get bigger.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of the way this administration does stuff

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Speaker 3: is just by like writing it down on paper and

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Speaker 3: then hoping that they can just sort of shock and

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Speaker 3: awe terror people into complying. But like, if you don't comply,

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Speaker 3: they can't make you like it's you know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is only so this is only you've seen across

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Speaker 3: issue areas, right, Like if people don't comply with ice agents,

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Speaker 3: it suddenly becomes incredibly hard for them to just like

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Speaker 3: carry on massy rotations. If people don't comply with their

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Speaker 3: hospital crackdowns, it's actually really hard for them to stop

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Speaker 3: kids and getting gender affirming care.

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Speaker 7: But if you give up, then yeah, it's really easy.

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Speaker 6: Right right, there's giving up before the fight really starts. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: at some level of this, this is what they want.

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Speaker 6: They're okay with it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 8: The dogs don't really matter, Like, no, it doesn't matter

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Speaker 8: which way it goes. Did we really want to fight

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Speaker 8: it now? We don't want to, mister slog. Group of

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Speaker 8: people's we're not able to fight it. And if they

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Speaker 8: fight it and they win, then we'll give it back

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Speaker 8: whatever I can add. Armies of lawyers you can see,

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Speaker 8: has armies of lawyers that can really go.

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Speaker 9: And really attack this from all different angles.

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Speaker 8: Bring in community ad kids, bring together all these you

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Speaker 8: know the one that's lot project atm you all these

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Speaker 8: different folks that come in with them and really hammer

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Speaker 8: it to this administration. But they choose to not do

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Speaker 8: that and choose to be complicit in the bull crap.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Okay, So we unfortunately need to

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Speaker 3: go to ads. When we come back, we will talk

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Speaker 3: about how we're going to fight back. Yeah, it'll be great.

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Speaker 3: We are back so remarkably quickly after this stuff all started.

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Speaker 3: There's a pretty large protest, like outside of the hospital

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Speaker 3: to get them to stop doing this. Can you talk

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Speaker 3: about how this all sort of started to come together

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Speaker 3: and how these efforts got organized.

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Speaker 8: So I started hearing rumbles about this in December and

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Speaker 8: in January. You know, once we got it into office

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Speaker 8: and things, you know, immediately he's signed DI exxective or

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Speaker 8: I think like a little bit after that, and by

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Speaker 8: April we started activating and figuring out what we wanted

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Speaker 8: to do because UPMC had made that first directive to

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Speaker 8: not accept anymore on trans youth at all, whatsoever you

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Speaker 8: think young adults, anyone under the age of nineteen.

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Speaker 9: So we did our first action in April.

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Speaker 8: May start following up getting information out to disseminate their

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Speaker 8: right information out to community members, and doing all of

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Speaker 8: the behind the scenes work connecting folks to the necessary

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Speaker 8: resources that they need, so we could, you know, start

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Speaker 8: fighting back at UPMC.

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Speaker 11: Loan behold to us.

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Speaker 6: DINA and Trans Uniting have been doing a lot of

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Speaker 6: work to kind of set the stage for us to

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Speaker 6: get involved, which is really awesome. We were made aware

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Speaker 6: of what's going on with UPMC well after you know,

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Speaker 6: DNA and some of the community members have been so

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Speaker 6: I believe.

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Speaker 4: It was earlier June, maybe end of May.

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Speaker 6: Some of my really amazing coworkers and I decided, you know,

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Speaker 6: we can't really just sit back and do nothing. And

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Speaker 6: I think at the clinic I work in, there was

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Speaker 6: a big feeling of helplessness.

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Speaker 4: You know, what can we do?

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Speaker 6: How do we fight back on our bosses? You know,

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Speaker 6: we were feeling stuck, and we are a suicide prevention clinic.

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Speaker 6: We're not specifically a gender clinic, but because we know

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Speaker 6: that there's a hard proportion of trains and gay youth

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Speaker 6: who are at risk of suicide in the general population,

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Speaker 6: we work with a lot of trans youth. So we

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Speaker 6: were seeing this impact us directly in the sense of

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Speaker 6: the work that we do. So some of my coworkers

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Speaker 6: wrote a letter to UPMC explaining the way that we're

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Speaker 6: feeling about this, asking them to reverse this decision. The

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Speaker 6: letter discussed several local laws and state laws that would

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Speaker 6: protect them as well as hit them where they hurt,

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Speaker 6: as far as discussing the money that they have and

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Speaker 6: the available funds they have to fight this. The letter

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Speaker 6: was incredibly assigned by almost four hundred actually think at

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Speaker 6: this point over four hundred staff at the hospital system.

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Speaker 4: We work it.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and while this letter was being drafted, some of

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Speaker 6: my coworks met with consultants through the ACLU and other

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Speaker 6: local organizations to one make sure what we were doing

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Speaker 6: was okay, that we were not jeopardizing too much of

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Speaker 6: our own safety as far as employment goes, but also

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Speaker 6: to get their opinions and start to rally organizations. So

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Speaker 6: the ACLU is to put us in touch with Dina

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Speaker 6: and Transuniting, and Dina jumped on it. In less than

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Speaker 6: two weeks, she and her coworkers had created and built

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Speaker 6: up a rally for us, which we had outside of

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Speaker 6: the UPMC building downtown just a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 6: and we had local lawmakers speak. I spoke along with

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Speaker 6: my coworkers who helped write the letter. Dina spoke in, Dina,

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Speaker 6: if you want to speak more of that rally, I

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Speaker 6: think that'd be awesome.

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Speaker 8: Sure, I just want to say this is what aw

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Speaker 8: I shouldst like, you know, acomplases in the fight against

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Speaker 8: this you know, heinous crime, because this is exactly what

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Speaker 8: it is.

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Speaker 9: You know, it's been attack on trans labs.

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Speaker 8: But we broke a lot of folks together, community members, politicians,

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Speaker 8: and workers from the UPMC all together. We had about

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Speaker 8: three hundred and some folks that showed up when we

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Speaker 8: were on the steps of UPMC's headquarters in downtown Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 8: And we also coordinated with some state wif folks that

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Speaker 8: are actually doing a couple of actions throughout this month,

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Speaker 8: but there were two actions that happened that same day

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Speaker 8: as well, and you know, what is happening is not right,

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Speaker 8: So we had to make sure that the community is

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Speaker 8: being educated and we're activating community members. At the same time,

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Speaker 8: you know, also wanted them to know about this fund

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Speaker 8: that we were launching to help the kiddos in this

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Speaker 8: situation because folks are still going to need to you know,

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Speaker 8: be able to access some type of healthcare, so you know,

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Speaker 8: making sure that they are aware of their options and

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Speaker 8: making sure they're able to have funds to do so,

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Speaker 8: because you know, with everything happening, they are probably going

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Speaker 8: to get cut off of their health care insurance as well,

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Speaker 8: you know, and that is a real scare.

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Speaker 9: And that happens then what meana?

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Speaker 8: So that was kind of what happened with that situation,

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Speaker 8: and it was amazing, you know, everybody was amazing.

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Speaker 9: But I just you know, definitely want to shout out to.

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Speaker 8: Lena and the whole team because listen, we need more

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Speaker 8: accomplices like that, and it's by you know, we are

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Speaker 8: a small but mighty community, and we will not be

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Speaker 8: able to get the things done that needs to be

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Speaker 8: done to protect not just us, but all of us

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Speaker 8: if we're not all united.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, Dan, I mean, we couldn't do it.

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Speaker 6: I thought you guys and the power you've got and

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Speaker 6: the beautiful voices that you bring to the fight, it's

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Speaker 6: truly awesome.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the things that we're seeing from this,

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Speaker 3: and you know that we've seen from all of the

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Speaker 3: anti trans repression is that like, on the one hand, yeah,

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Speaker 3: trans people are like one and a half percent of

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Speaker 3: the population, and we're disproportionately like the most broke and

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Speaker 3: fucked up percentage of that population.

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Speaker 10: And also we are significantly better organizers like prison for

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Speaker 10: person than all of the people fighting us. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 10: like they have unbelievable amounts of resources, however, Comma, we

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Speaker 10: are really good at like this specific.

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Speaker 3: Thing of organizing and fighting back.

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Speaker 6: And yeah, well sadly, like trans people have had to

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Speaker 6: fight for so long learned to do it, and their

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Speaker 6: loved ones man, like they were there when we were

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Speaker 6: at the rally a couple of weeks ago, I had

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Speaker 6: parents of trans kids hugging me, you know, like they

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Speaker 6: show up and they fight for their people, and it's

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Speaker 6: really empowering.

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Speaker 8: We don't have that cholice fun to do that, you know,

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Speaker 8: we don't have that cholices about the show. We don't

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Speaker 8: have that cholice about to fight because we had to

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Speaker 8: all of our lives in order to you know, continue

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Speaker 8: to walk in our true you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And like I mean, you know, I could talk

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Speaker 3: about sort of the structural factors that make that true,

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Speaker 3: but there's also just if you're going to be trends,

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Speaker 3: at some point you have to choose to accept it,

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Speaker 3: and like the fact that it's an identity that like

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Speaker 3: you have to make a choice to be like I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna fucking do this and like, Okay, I am this

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Speaker 3: person that I've always known that I am, etcetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: I think they're also just like it selects for like

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Speaker 3: a small extent for people who are willing to just

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Speaker 3: like fuck it, let's go. And I don't know, that's

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Speaker 3: been the thing I've always like appreciated about the way

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Speaker 3: that like these kind of organizing efforts unfold areria. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so let's talk about what the reaction has been to

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Speaker 3: the protest, to the actions, both from the hospital and

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Speaker 3: from the community at large.

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Speaker 6: Looking at both of those things, I guess one of

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Speaker 6: the coolest reactions we're seeing is a lot of people

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Speaker 6: coming out in solidarity who work at the hospital system,

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Speaker 6: So the people who originally wrote the letter, who were

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Speaker 6: part of this rally. We are trying to organize more

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Speaker 6: community meetings, more town halls, contacting people through email, and

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Speaker 6: Dina has been very involved in that along with side

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Speaker 6: other local organizations. But the word is spreading and we're

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Speaker 6: getting in touch with a lot of people in a

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Speaker 6: lot of different departments throughout.

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Speaker 4: The hospital who are here and want to show up.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're seeing.

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Speaker 6: Physicians, social workers UPMC is also, of course a massive

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Speaker 6: insurance conglomerate, and we're seeing people who work in the

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Speaker 6: insurance side of things come out to support this so

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Speaker 6: that's been really amazing as far as what things are

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Speaker 6: looking like. As administration feedback, we are being told the

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Speaker 6: same response repeatedly that UPMC is doing what they have

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Speaker 6: to do to quote unquote abide with the law, and

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Speaker 6: they're making the decisions that they are making because of

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Speaker 6: the quote unquote law, and they will continue to offer

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Speaker 6: behavioral health support to trans youth and young adults to

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Speaker 6: support them through this crisis. So, you know, we are

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Speaker 6: trying to meet together and talk a lot about what

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Speaker 6: that means.

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Speaker 4: Of course, there is some fear of will that be

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Speaker 4: stripped away.

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Speaker 6: You know, we actually saw not that long ago, I

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Speaker 6: think was only last week that you know, Ohio they

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00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 6: built into their state budget that Medicaid can no longer

443
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 6: cover quote unquote transffirming therapy.

444
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 7: So this isn't.

445
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 6: Even puberty blockers, it's not hormones, it's talk therapy.

446
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 4: And what will that mean?

447
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 6: You know, we hope that we're protected here in Pennsylvania,

448
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 6: but there's always resks that this can come into place

449
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 6: at a federal level. So these talking points that they're

450
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 6: sticking to, it's not too black and white as they're

451
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 6: presenting it. You know, they're not abiding with any certain law.

452
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 6: We don't know that therapy is protected, but that's what's

453
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 6: kind of they're sticking to.

454
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 4: And that's just what's repeatedly being.

455
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 6: Stated throughout various press contacts that are being made through

456
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:36,840
Speaker 6: the hospital.

457
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 9: They're doing whatever the fuck they want to do.

458
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, to put it lightly, yes, yeah, this.

459
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 8: Is what's happening, and we just have to continue to

460
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 8: fight because they want to take us back to the

461
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 8: nineteen fifties and that's not going to happen.

462
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 9: That's not going to happen.

463
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 8: And alsoever, it's Saint nineteen fifty, this is twenty twenty five,

464
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 8: and you can.

465
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 9: Take away all you want to. We're going to fight

466
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 9: and we're going to put it back at place.

467
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 8: A lot of times it is so much harder to

468
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 8: take things away and try to get them back. But

469
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 8: you know, unfortunately we're here and a lot of Americans

470
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 8: didn't think that we would be in this predicament and

471
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 8: it's not going to get nothing but worse. So hopefully

472
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 8: it opens up people's eyes and we have to unite

473
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 8: as a people.

474
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:24,719
Speaker 9: That's it. That's it.

475
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 8: That's all around all of these issues. There's so much happening,

476
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 8: so much being thrown on us at one time. But

477
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 8: we have to unite as minority people or we will

478
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 8: be in a place like nineteen fifties, because I mean

479
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 8: we're abought to be in a great depression.

480
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 9: By January, we will be in a great depression. Everybody,

481
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 9: get ready? Hope you got your CAG good?

482
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 7: Yeah?

483
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: Well, And I think there's there's another element of this too,

484
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 3: which is like you can look at them doing a like, oh,

485
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 3: we're just following orders thing, but there's no actual orders,

486
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 3: which makes it even more pathetic than like the original

487
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 3: words just following orders people, which again, and I want

488
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: to note this, just following orders did not prevent you

489
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: from being tried at Nuremberg, Like that was found to

490
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: not be a defense, so like right, remembering of where

491
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 3: that went down. His shit. But the second thing too,

492
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 3: is like in terms of like there being so many

493
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: different things where like everyone needs to sort of pull

494
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: together and fight this the other advantage that we have

495
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 3: that's different from like thirties Nazi Germany, right, like this

496
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: stuff is all really unpopular, Like everyone hates it, Everyone

497
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: hates Trump is approve of ratings are terrible, the proof

498
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: ratings for everything he's doing across the bord are just

499
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 3: really bad.

500
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 7: The thing about the Nazis was that, like Nazi Germany,

501
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 7: people wanted.

502
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 9: They were imutified.

503
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, like at least to something extent. They were able

504
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 3: to smash, like, you know, they were able to sort

505
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 3: of wipe out everyone who was opposing them, but like

506
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: significant portions of the population wanted all of that shit

507
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 3: to happen. And then it's just not true here, right,

508
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 3: And you know, our job is to make sure that

509
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: like the fact that nobody wants the shit to happen

510
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: actually turns into it not happening instead of just you know,

511
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: this unhinged autocratic like you're king is like writing decrees

512
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: on a piece of paper and suddenly hospitals are following

513
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: them even though there's just nothing else.

514
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 8: Nothing, nothing, bugle crap. But again, we just have to

515
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 8: band together. I think folks still in a sense they're

516
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 8: in that mind frame of twenty twenty four. It's like

517
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 8: this is not twenty twenty four at all whatsoever. And

518
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 8: if you don't get with it, I don't know. Yeah,

519
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 8: but we're going to continue to fight. That's not going

520
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 8: to stop. We're going to continue to you know, make

521
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 8: waves and activate educate people about their rights, and you know,

522
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 8: create spaces or transit to be and be safe as

523
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 8: much as possible and do it all.

524
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 9: But as much as we can do, we will do.

525
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

526
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 3: And I think that also raises a question for people

527
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,479
Speaker 3: listening to the show, which is that what can people

528
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: do to put pressure on this hospital or their local

529
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: hospital to do this and how can people sort of

530
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 3: help the effort to get UPMC to fucking give kids

531
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: their health care?

532
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 8: Absolutely, So what they can do is they can go

533
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 8: visit trends upg dot org. They can sign a petition

534
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 8: that we have up, you can donate to the fund

535
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 8: that we have gone currently. Locally, what they can do is,

536
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 8: you know, work with their borough or city councils to

537
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 8: create legislation to protect trans kids and use young adults

538
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 8: and on state wild levels as well. But what we

539
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 8: have to do is we have to put pressure from

540
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 8: the top and from the bottom, you know, on the

541
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 8: government to you know, the state governments to make these

542
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 8: changes because again there are no.

543
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 9: Laws in place at all whatsoever.

544
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 8: So now we have to take that and we have

545
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 8: to make laws in each state protect not just trans

546
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 8: you think of adults, blood trans individuals and any minority

547
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 8: groups that are being attacked by this Orange Man's regime.

548
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a lot of railing together and I think

549
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 6: what we've seen here is amazingly we were all able

550
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 6: to come together as a community and fight, and I

551
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 6: think reaching out to your local organizations. I mean, if

552
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 6: every city had a Dina Stanley, they would be in

553
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 6: a much better position to fight this fight. But you know,

554
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 6: working together with the people who know how to organize

555
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 6: and fight, but also not be afraid to get your

556
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 6: feet wet in that act of organizing. You know, we

557
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: have been working with Action Network to open up letter

558
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 6: writing to our community so that you don't have to

559
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 6: be a UPMC staff to let UPMC know how you're feeling.

560
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 6: We're trying to host more town halls and community meetings.

561
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 6: We hit Instagram. We have an account Club Providers for

562
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 6: Trans Justice, where we're trying to get the work out

563
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 6: so we can rally more together. I think in big pieces,

564
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 6: if you're able to contribute financially, Transuniting has their Youth

565
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 6: Healing Fund. I believe Tina, that's what it's called, where

566
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 6: people can financially support trans youth who are having trouble

567
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 6: accessing their care, and especially knowing what we know what's

568
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 6: going to happen with Medicaid, this is even more important. So,

569
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 6: I mean, if you want to support us in our

570
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 6: fight against UPMC.

571
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 4: I think it's be loud. It's not stop.

572
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 6: I believe that hospital is just waiting for everybody to

573
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 6: quiet down. But we're only going to get louder because

574
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 6: these taper plans just started for the youth, teens and

575
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 6: young adults. They're still on their medications, and the further

576
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 6: way that gets, the louder we're going to be because the

577
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 6: risk is really going to increase as the months go on.

578
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 8: Absolutely, so don't stop. Be loud all the time. The

579
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 8: accomplices in this fite because no matter what, and know

580
00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 8: that your next, so you can either join in, you

581
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 8: can wait for your turn, and by that time maybe

582
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 8: too late and there won't be no one to be

583
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 8: able to stand up the light.

584
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I thing I've been saying on the show

585
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: a lot is it's not even just that after they

586
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: come for us, they're going to come for you. It's

587
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: that in order to come for us, they are going

588
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: through you first. Like that's what this whole administration has been.

589
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: They are willing to destroy the entire global economy. They're

590
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 3: willing to turn the US into a police state. They

591
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: are willing to again just grab people off the street

592
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: in order to destroy very very small groups of people.

593
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: They are willing to a miserate the lives of every

594
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 3: single person in this country. And the good news is

595
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 3: that means that because we're all targets, we all have

596
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: the capacity to resist together and to beat them, and

597
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 3: we're going to.

598
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 8: It's just that people have to understand that. You know

599
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 8: that we are targets, and I understand what is actually happening. Right,

600
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 8: These are tacked on trans folks. It's not about trans individuals.

601
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 8: It's about autonomy of a women's body. The tacks over immigrants,

602
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 8: it's not about the immigrants. It's about citizens ships for

603
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,959
Speaker 8: black and brown people that have it, you know what

604
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 8: I mean. So this is again, it's just about having

605
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 8: control over folks period. And as soon as people understand

606
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 8: that and know that, you will, you know, be a

607
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 8: slave of this country and in a way that you've

608
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 8: never been, because we all are but a slave of

609
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 8: this country like you've never been before. You better get

610
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 8: with it and open your eyes up and stand up

611
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 8: and fight back, or you will be in a situation

612
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 8: that you would just be sitting there thinking like I

613
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 8: should have could.

614
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 9: Have what you did?

615
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 6: The stand up now, the fight we're having with UPNC,

616
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 6: I mean, of course it's important. It's this is my employer,

617
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 6: this is where I live. But it is just a

618
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 6: small fight in the broader scheme of the fights we have.

619
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 6: And you know, this brings up a good point of

620
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 6: we fight for trans use because of what might come next,

621
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 6: but it's already coming.

622
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 5: Right.

623
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 6: We have a lot of people of color who are

624
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 6: already schedule leave the country because they don't know if

625
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 6: they'll be allowed back in with their passports.

626
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 9: At US.

627
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 6: We have you know, women who are no longer able

628
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 6: to access abortion care or reproductive care in many places

629
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 6: in this country. I mean, it's not if it's going

630
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 6: to happen, it's when, and it already is. So the

631
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 6: more we fight in the louder we can be for

632
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 6: the people who are hit the most, the more likely

633
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 6: that this fight will drag on and hit them, so

634
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 6: less fights can start in the future.

635
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 4: But it's happening. We're seeing it everywhere.

636
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's an amazing place to end. Thank

637
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: you to both so much for coming on and for

638
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: fighting this fight.

639
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: Absolutely, thank you for having us.

640
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 6: I think it's really awesome to get the platform to

641
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 6: show what we're doing and hope people, hopefully people will

642
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 6: feel less scared. Right, there's power in numbers, There's power

643
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 6: and solidarity. The more people we have fighting along us,

644
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 6: the easier it gets to fight.

645
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 9: The power is the people, and we are the people.

646
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 3: I am incredibly looking forward to talking to you, to

647
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: you again, will be fucking win this.

648
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 9: So I love everybody.

649
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: That's gonna be great.

650
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 12: Champagne over the microphone.

651
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 13: Oh this is it could happen here A show about

652
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 13: things falling apart.

653
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 7: I'm Garrison Davis.

654
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 13: Today we're talking about movies, one of my favorite topics

655
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 13: that I never get to talk about on the show.

656
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 13: But I'm able to talk about it this week because

657
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 13: I've found a way to talk about how movies are

658
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 13: covering the death of woke and to help me in

659
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 13: this doomed endeavor, I have recruited artists and designer Bailey

660
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 13: new poster Welcome.

661
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 11: Hi, It's lovely to be here.

662
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 13: Bailey also is behind the new Top Cup City show

663
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 13: Art which will eventually go public, maybe in a few

664
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 13: weeks whenever I finally finished that episode, so keep pounding

665
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 13: me about it. So we're going to talk about two

666
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 13: films that came out this past July, Superman and Eddington,

667
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 13: which I think are actually very closely related despite being

668
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 13: very different from each other. I believe they're kind of

669
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 13: equal and opposite films. And I realized this after I

670
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 13: saw Eddington at a theater in Brooklyn and walked outside

671
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 13: to the posters for Superman and editing being right next

672
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 13: to each other, which are very different, and then I

673
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 13: realized this is actually kind of the same movie but

674
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 13: doing like or they're very related films. Right now, I

675
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 13: think they really are like the equal and opposite of

676
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 13: each other. Both are like uber contemporary, They're very online.

677
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 7: They have a.

678
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 13: Sort of like gestural politics, and I think they're both

679
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 13: reactions to a conflicting view of American decline. Both have

680
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 13: surprised Tucker Carlson appearances, and both have failed cancer relations.

681
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 13: There's a lot of overlap in some of the plot

682
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 13: points of this film, and I think what they're actually

683
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 13: kind of saying about current American culture, current American politics,

684
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 13: and how it relates to social media. I think we

685
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 13: should first talk about Superman to get over that, so

686
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 13: we can I discuss Eddington because I need to discuss

687
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 13: Eddington in relation to Superman in some ways. So I

688
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 13: guess people have been enjoying this film. I think a

689
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 13: big part of why is how the film tackles geopolitics.

690
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 13: Oddly enough, the geopolitical conflict in the film was most

691
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 13: likely based on what it was written trying to pull from,

692
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 13: like Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But because the film took

693
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 13: a long time to write, by the time they shot

694
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 13: the film, there was a whole other geopolitical conflict happening,

695
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 13: which influenced at the very least the visual language of

696
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 13: the film, which which pulls from Israel and Palestine.

697
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 14: It's nice to see it like represented, I guess on

698
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 14: on a blockbuster film, like that's what it feels like.

699
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 11: It felt like nice to see it.

700
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 13: You know, it's like an acknowledgment of the atrocities happening. Yes,

701
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 13: Like essentially a Benjamin net and Yaho stand in is

702
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 13: basically like the secondary villain of the film. And at

703
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 13: this point, I guess we'll just have to talk about

704
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 13: hashtag spoilers. If you haven't seen these and you want to,

705
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 13: you can. You can go see them. If you're okay

706
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 13: with hearing us talk about it, and that might make

707
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 13: you want to see them more, then feel free. I

708
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 13: don't think spoilers actually ruin a movie, but yeah, like

709
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 13: Net and Yaho dying in the film gets like a massive,

710
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 13: a massive crowd reaction at least when I saw it

711
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 13: opening night, and people definitely feel a degree of like

712
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 13: catharsists like watching you know, superheroes stop the IDF from

713
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 13: massacring you know, civilians who are you were like, you know,

714
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 13: like like Arab civilians, Like it's it's it's at that

715
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 13: point they transcend like the Russia Ukraine aspect, and it's

716
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 13: like very very clear what they're visually pulling from.

717
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think the falafel car guy is the one. Yeah,

718
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 11: that's crazy.

719
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 13: Les Luthor executes a falafel card owner. And I'll talk

720
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 13: about more about how the film like riffs on Palestine

721
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 13: in a bed. There's other aspects I think of how

722
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 13: Superman is reacting to what James Gunn sees as like

723
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 13: American decline, because I think Superman as a film is

724
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 13: kind of a partially vapid take on like the corruption

725
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 13: of sincere positive futures and like the loss of hope.

726
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 13: It honestly feels very like Biden twenty twenty. It's like

727
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 13: a battle for the soul of America type thing. And

728
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 13: I also see this as like a reaction to the

729
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 13: victory of toxic masculinity, especially among like the twitch streamer

730
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 13: class and like manfluencers like Andrew Tait, and instead you

731
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 13: have Superman as this like Goodie two shoes boy Scout

732
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 13: the way he like he should be. And this is

733
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 13: the aspect of the film I think works. The best is,

734
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 13: honestly is their characterization of Superman. The cast is phenomenal.

735
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 13: David Kornsweat does a really good job. And I do

736
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 13: like this version of masculinity. It's it's it's it's still

737
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 13: funny to see like post online of people being like, Wow,

738
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 13: I'm actually gonna try, you know, being nice to my

739
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 13: neighbors now that I saw Superman, Like what the fuck?

740
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 14: I want to pick up my girlfriend today and be

741
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 14: happy when I'm around her.

742
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 13: Yeah, So that feels a little odd, but like, I

743
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 13: guess it's good that people can feel like Superman when

744
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 13: they're doing good things, helping an old lady cross the

745
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 13: street or whatever. I think that aspect of like decline.

746
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 13: I sympathize with this, this like loss of like positive masculinity,

747
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 13: and I think a Superman can be as simple for

748
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 13: that for for new people who are addicted to watching

749
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 13: like sneak O or whatever. Yeah, I think that's probably good.

750
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 13: And in some ways, I think this film, honestly, like

751
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 13: the exact same film would have been received a lot

752
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 13: worse if Kamala Harris was president. I think that the

753
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 13: fact that everyone feels so hopeless, like depress, hopeless and

754
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 13: defeated because of Trump, I think this actually contributes to

755
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 13: the positive reception the film is take. And myself and

756
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 13: a few other people kind of even predicted this, like

757
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 13: back in November, trying to like forecast like the reception

758
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 13: of Superman and like Fantastic Four, and like all these

759
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 13: companies were trying to like save the superhero genre from

760
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 13: like eating itself right now. Yeah, but for me at least,

761
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 13: there is a more insidious aspect of Superman that I

762
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 13: do not see being discussed as much beyond you know,

763
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 13: James Gunn still still obviously upset that he got canceled

764
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 13: and is making that a core plot point in this

765
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 13: film is he's actually super bad and he shouldn't have

766
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 13: been canceled.

767
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 14: He shouldn't be canceled, and the people canceling him were

768
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 14: monkeys at typewriters.

769
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 13: And which way, honestly that that part is true. Yeah,

770
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 13: people try to cancel James Gun were monkeys and gone typewriters.

771
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 11: I thought that bit was great.

772
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 14: I thought that bit was very I was like, that's

773
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 14: very like one panel gag in a comic, which is,

774
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 14: you know, wonderful.

775
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 11: Very The movie felt very great.

776
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 13: Morrison, Totally, those are the aspects that I really like.

777
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 11: Yeah, totally.

778
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 14: Staying on the political subject, I think you could draw

779
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 14: a very good analogy between this and or Not.

780
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 11: Just this feels like this year's Barbie, if that makes sense.

781
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 14: Sure, like the kind of like corporate political not girls

782
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 14: get it done this time. Obviously, this is like more

783
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 14: of like anti not even anti toxic masculinity. I think

784
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 14: it's just pro this form of masculinity, which I think

785
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 14: is more productive. Yeah, but I also think, yeah, there's

786
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 14: like neolib stuff going on. And also the fact that

787
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 14: the movie, because it's a blockbuster can't properly handle anything

788
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 14: like it kind of has to just leave everything at

789
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 14: the road.

790
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 11: Yeah, on the side of the road by the end

791
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 11: of it. Yeah, I don't know.

792
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 13: This is very much similar to Barbie, in which I

793
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 13: kind of had the same reaction to. It's like they're

794
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 13: like o K movies, But I find the political posturing

795
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 13: actually slightly insulting in a certain way based on how

796
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 13: shallow it is. And I'm gonna I'm going to actually

797
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 13: get into that more on Superman here, I've seen people

798
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 13: talking about how like emotional they got during the scenes,

799
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 13: like very evocative of the palestinding a genocide, like the

800
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 13: people like, you know, crying and tearing up and feeling

801
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 13: so seen. And again, on one hand, that's good, but

802
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 13: that also gives me a bit of an icky feeling.

803
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 13: And someone else expressed this very well, the co host

804
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 13: of the Hit Factory podcast at Deep Impact Crier on tweeter.

805
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 13: She's the host of the podcast Hit Factory. Wich was

806
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 13: about nineties to cinema. I think her name is Carly,

807
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 13: and she expressed this kind of soft disgust that was

808
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 13: growing in me. But both kind of during some of

809
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 13: these scenes and frankly watching people's reaction to it, She said,

810
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 13: quote that's the point, isn't it, To immerse you in

811
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 13: a fantasy where civilian life matters, to distract you from

812
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 13: the reality where civilian life does not matter, To offer

813
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 13: you abstractions of already abstracted images of imperial violence so

814
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 13: that you can experience catharsis, escape and absolution. A movie

815
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 13: like Superman exists to take the literal spectacle of genocide

816
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,760
Speaker 13: filling our feed for two years, and further mediate, slash,

817
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 13: abstract the spectacle so it can be transposed onto another

818
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 13: product of empire and strategic interpassivity to keep us ideologically

819
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 13: and emotionally confined to its order. Any empathetic impulse engendered

820
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 13: by forms and aesthetics of imperial violence and memetic rhythms

821
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 13: of technology it trades in confines us to the limits

822
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 13: of the language of empire.

823
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 7: It keeps us.

824
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 13: Operating on its terms. We need cinema that ruptures familiar

825
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 13: imperial forms and its rhythms. So movies like Superman and

826
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 13: the way that they depict atrocities actually like make us

827
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 13: more indebted to the imperial system, because the imperial system

828
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 13: can give us a product to make us feel Catharsis

829
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 13: about the violence that the empire actually does, and that

830
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 13: Catharsis keeps us going, like that's what allows us to

831
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 13: not like fucking destroy everything around us, because we get

832
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 13: enough of that Catharsis that it makes us able to

833
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 13: keep living. And that's in the end, what products like

834
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 13: Superman are kind of doing. They're making us feel just

835
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 13: good enough by expressing the displeasure we have at what

836
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 13: our government is doing, but still making us like fully

837
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 13: married to the existence of that empire, like we can't

838
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 13: live without it because of the comfort it provides us,

839
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 13: including this cathartic comfort watching fucking Guy Gardner stop the

840
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 13: Palestindian genocide, which if you told me that sentence like

841
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 13: five years ago, I would have not believed you. I

842
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 13: would have not believed that a cinematic depiction of Guy

843
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 13: Gardner is going to stop the Palestinian genocide, that that

844
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 13: Hawk girl is gonna is gonna kill Netanyahu. I would

845
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 13: have not believed you for a single second. And that

846
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 13: kind of shows the level of absurdity that we're kind

847
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 13: of dealing with, and that aspect, I think is what

848
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 13: makes what Superman is doing actually far more insidious than

849
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 13: any of the controversial politics in something like Eddington.

850
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 14: I also think that the whole like indended to empire thing.

851
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 14: I think this is like the case in point example

852
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 14: of that considering Superman is literally a symbol of American values.

853
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 13: Or certainly has like become that, and like, yeah, you know,

854
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 13: had a more positive version of that in some ways

855
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 13: during his like birth in World War Two as a

856
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 13: way as like a symbol of like Nazi resistance, but

857
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 13: now is you know, very much turned into like truth

858
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 13: justice in the American way, to the point where a

859
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 13: lot of his you know, like immigrant aspects have been

860
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 13: have been kind of undercut in the in the past,

861
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 13: in the past few years.

862
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 14: Yeah, I saw an article I didn't actually end up

863
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 14: fully reading because it was on the I forgot what

864
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 14: it was then the Washington Post or maybe it was

865
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 14: the New York Times where it was it was like

866
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 14: blocked or.

867
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 7: Something, one of the big two. Yeah.

868
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 14: Yeah, it was an author who I think was an immigrant,

869
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 14: and it was like talking about how Superman undercuts the

870
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 14: the immigrant experience and that he is like literally born

871
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 14: on the planet anyway, so it's not really like an

872
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 14: it's not necessarily and he doesn't go through any like

873
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 14: cultural conflict.

874
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 7: I guess, you know, totally.

875
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 14: I also wondered about, well, you know, I g I

876
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 14: guess it doesn't.

877
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 11: I guess it doesn't.

878
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 14: I was gonna I was gonna think about the taking

879
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 14: the immigrant aspect and then talking about one of the

880
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 14: main parts of the movie, which was his parents are

881
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 14: like you need to go and make a harem on

882
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 14: Earth or whatever, is sort of interesting.

883
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 13: Yes, the aspect that his immigrant background has been very

884
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 13: corrupted in this film, Like there's like a certainly like

885
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 13: foreign evilness associating with Superman.

886
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 14: Now, yeah, you're an immigrant, and like that's good, and

887
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 14: that's great and very American, but you shouldn't be what

888
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 14: your parents were, your like foreign parents because they wanted

889
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 14: a harem of lovers and to like conquer the West

890
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 14: or whatever. Yeah, which, you know, considering the fact that

891
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 14: this was written during the Russia Ukraine thing and not

892
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 14: mainly during the Israel Palestine thing, I don't know if

893
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 14: that's like because that's in the movie.

894
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 11: I have to think about it, you know.

895
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, I don't think James Gunn was conceptualizing of that

896
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 13: when he wrote it.

897
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 14: I think it's an unfortunate product of what happened aesthetically,

898
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 14: but it's not that big of a deal, but it

899
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 14: is weird, like it's something to think about.

900
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 13: That effect did not bother me as much as it

901
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 13: did like for some other people. For my overall thoughts

902
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 13: in the film, I think it's basically as good as

903
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 13: every other James Gun film, which frankly just is not

904
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 13: my cup of tea. I've never really loved the Guardians films.

905
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 13: I don't think James Gun's a very compelling filmmaker. I

906
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 13: thought it was just fine. It definitely felt like episode

907
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 13: thirteen of a TV show that doesn't exist, which as

908
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 13: a comic book appreciator I like. As a film appreciator

909
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 13: I don't like, But certainly the more campy aspects I

910
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 13: enjoyed a lot. I think now is time to go

911
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 13: on a quick break, and then we will return to

912
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 13: discuss the anti woke cinematic masterpiece of the twenty twenties Eddington.

913
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 11: All right, we're back, So I.

914
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,959
Speaker 13: Would like to now talk about Eddington for the rest

915
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 13: of the episode. Essentially, But like I said before, Eddington

916
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 13: is the equal and opposite of Superman. Both are both

917
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 13: are very contemporary, very online. Both their politics, gesture and

918
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 13: I think they're they're reactionary, but they're specifically reactionary in

919
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 13: very different ways. I think they're they're reacting to two

920
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 13: very different types of decline in America, or like perceived

921
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 13: decline in America. So Eddington is directed by Ariastor, who

922
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 13: made Hereditary, Midsummer and Both Afraid. I'll talk more about

923
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 13: my thoughts on ari Astor at the end in a

924
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 13: conversation with Jennie Danger. But I think Eddington is not

925
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 13: anti woke. Actually I was lying. I think Anything is

926
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 13: a post woke expression of kind of scared nihilism, or

927
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 13: like like a depiction of the nihilism inherent to American

928
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 13: politics right now, like everything as a conspiracy theory, there's

929
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 13: this specter of cancelation around the corner, and like speaking specters,

930
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 13: I think so so much of both Superman and Eddington

931
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 13: for me, is like there's this specter of wokeism that's

932
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 13: haunting America, and both films are trying to deal with

933
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 13: that specter. I think Superman partially mourns that wokeness, and

934
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 13: Eddington deals with its more like actual and like haunting

935
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 13: and like in like a ghostly quality. Some of its

936
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 13: more like uncanny qualities. Sometimes more than anything, Eddington digs

937
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 13: into how we have created a profoundly anti social culture,

938
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 13: which even leftists contribute to and in some cases actually

939
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 13: conceptualize that as a form of like based process, and

940
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 13: how we've all become just reflections of our Internet feeds

941
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 13: and used politics as a justification for personal cruelty, or

942
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 13: the very least, used politics as an outlet to channel

943
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 13: anti social behavior in a way that you can self

944
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,399
Speaker 13: perceive as being morally good. And I think the left

945
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 13: and the right do this obviously, Like the right does

946
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 13: this with their like pedophile crusader shit. Never mind the

947
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 13: whole Epstein thing, just just ignore that, ignore all of

948
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 13: the actual right wing pedophiles.

949
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 11: But well, it's entirely about aesthetics.

950
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 14: It's about absolutely yeah, who looks like a pedophile to me?

951
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 11: And it's the gay person.

952
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 13: Ascetisize politics rights, which is huge on I think political

953
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 13: extremism in general, politics start developing more aestheticized forms. You know,

954
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 13: this is true among anarchists, and I think fascism more

955
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 13: more purely, I think is actually like politics asceticize to

956
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 13: the point we're aesthetisizing, you know, like like people and

957
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 13: like culture and like race, right, Like that is a

958
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 13: whole a way different version than you know, like crust

959
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 13: punks or like yeah, like like you know black Bloc.

960
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 14: Did you see the uh? I don't remember what the

961
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 14: account was. There was like something of defense tweeted like

962
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 14: some AI like from one of those like mill military

963
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 14: fiction like accounts or something. And it was like a

964
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 14: picture of like a white dude holding like a fucked

965
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 14: up looking m for because it was AI generated and

966
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 14: he's got like a bald eagle.

967
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:04,479
Speaker 7: On his head.

968
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 13: No, but that sounds great.

969
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 11: It got tweeted today.

970
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 14: It's like the fucking lamest thing I've ever seen, and

971
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 14: like I just don't even know, like not only the

972
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 14: fact that he's like obviously he's using a photo of

973
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 14: somebody else, but it's not even a real picture of anybody.

974
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 11: It's like a fake image of somebody that somebody.

975
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 14: Else made, like that he got off of like one

976
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 14: of those like gun larp aesthetic accounts.

977
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 11: I just found that very interesting.

978
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 7: I don't know, Bailey, what did you think of Eddington?

979
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 11: I adored it. I loved it.

980
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 14: The moment that I knew that I was going to

981
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 14: enjoy it was probably where it's revealed the energy plant

982
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 14: is called perfect Gold, Magic carp or whatever, which is

983
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 14: like so funny, like all those AI guys making all

984
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 14: their products, like they're calling it Sourn's Eye or whatever.

985
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:57,959
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so good.

986
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 14: But I adored it. I think I think that Waking

987
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 14: Phoenix is wonderful in it. He's a great actor. I

988
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 14: think Ari Astor is like one of the few directors

989
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 14: that can perfectly slot him into this like just neurotic,

990
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 14: impotent man role, you.

991
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 7: Know, very impotent. Ye.

992
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 9: Yes.

993
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 14: So the scene that I really like that I think

994
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 14: about probably the most, or the character I think of

995
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 14: probably the most, is the homeless guy. Yeah, the homeless

996
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 14: guy who wanders into the film and is the you know,

997
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 14: he's this a stranger walks into a strange town like

998
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 14: opening of the film, and then all of the scenes

999
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 14: where he's like he kind of bothers everybody, like he's

1000
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 14: you know, like in Gavin Newsom's like anti homeless policies.

1001
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 14: You know, it's a it's a very bipartisan. We have

1002
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 14: a bipartisan anti homeless thing going on, obviously. And he

1003
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 14: is also like even when his character like snaps and

1004
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 14: kills somebody, he like kills the homeless guy first, which

1005
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 14: I found very interesting.

1006
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 13: Yes, I think this is really crucial that when when

1007
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 13: the sheriff starts his murder rampage, the first expression of

1008
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 13: violence that he feels personally justified in doing or feels

1009
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 13: Catharsis isn't doing, isn't isn't like the fake woke mayor.

1010
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 13: It's not Antifa. It's the homeless guy that is the

1011
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:22,760
Speaker 13: first target of acceptable violence in the mind of the sheriff.

1012
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 13: And I think that is a very accurate look at

1013
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 13: American politics, and that's not something I've seen discussed very

1014
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 13: much in relation to the film.

1015
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 14: No, and I in a way, he's still impotent after that,

1016
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 14: He's like he's he's not even enacting.

1017
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 11: I wouldn't even label that as political violence.

1018
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 14: I just labeled that as violence, right, Like earlier in

1019
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 14: the movie, all the like teen woke protesters are like

1020
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 14: sitting out in the street, and the homeless guy's kind

1021
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 14: of just standing and like he's like, hey, man, I

1022
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 14: don't have any money. Like he's not even asking for anything. Yeah,

1023
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 14: he's just kind of standing there and making them all uncomfortable.

1024
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 11: You know.

1025
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 14: He is he is the specter of the other wandering

1026
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 14: into this town and then everybody has to like and

1027
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 14: he's like the you know, the beginning of conflict. You know, yeah,

1028
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 14: they're they're like the easiest group to other is the

1029
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 14: homeless and the mentally unwell.

1030
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 4: No.

1031
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 13: I think that that part of the film works really well.

1032
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 13: And I guess this film has received a mixed reaction,

1033
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 13: which I talk a little bit about with with Jane,

1034
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 13: which you'll you'll hear in a sec. And I guess

1035
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 13: I'll start by talking about how I believe Eddington works

1036
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 13: as a as a piece of post woke cinema. And

1037
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 13: I was talking about this with someone and they asked

1038
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 13: me what post woke was, and I was a little confused,

1039
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 13: because that's a term that I feel like I understand

1040
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 13: really well, but then I failed to accurately describe it

1041
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 13: to them. And I think it relates to this whole

1042
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 13: cultural moment that we're in now, especially after the twenty

1043
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 13: twenty four election, where we're facing this larger cultural backlash

1044
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 13: against you know, woke TM and how that highlights like

1045
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 13: the limits of diversity representation and complicated language to explain

1046
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 13: topics that might actually be you know, reasonable, but by

1047
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 13: expressing them you sound very unreasonable, and I think what

1048
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 13: post woke is and the reason why Eddington is post

1049
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 13: woke and is not anti woke, Like Eddington's not a

1050
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 13: centrist movie. I think it actually is fairly political, but

1051
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 13: it's post woke in such that it is a continuation

1052
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 13: of radical politics which incorporates critiques of the woke era,

1053
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 13: what critics would describe as an overreach or excessive focus

1054
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 13: on language or singular identity, trading inaccessible education in favor

1055
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 13: of in group signaling to prove personal political purity. I

1056
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 13: think post woke shoes a shallow performative politics adopted to

1057
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 13: provide social capital, and instead may deliberately flaunt humor, camp,

1058
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 13: or irreverence in ways that may have been labeled problematic

1059
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 13: or taboo during the peak of twenty tens online activism,

1060
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 13: but often in a way that signals both curate awareness

1061
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 13: of social issues as well as an exhaustion with or

1062
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 13: a playful rebellion against socially alienating language and ideas. And

1063
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 13: this can include using irony, parity, and camp to engage

1064
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 13: with social issues without the existential gravity or earnestness of

1065
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 13: prior education focused eras there may now be jokes themes

1066
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 13: or performances that skirt or playfully violate previous norms of

1067
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 13: cultural sensitivity, but not out of ignorance, but as a

1068
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 13: conscious reversal or escalation, while actually emphasizing material support over

1069
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 13: linguistic gestures and systematic pressure over individual personal action. So

1070
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 13: that's what I mean by post woke. I had to

1071
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 13: workshop this definition with a friend earlier this morning, But

1072
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 13: I think that works for both, Like what Eddington is doing,

1073
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 13: I think that works for what events like Twins Versus

1074
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 13: Dolls is doing. How's it's not anti woke but and

1075
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 13: it's not purely reactionary against woke it is it is

1076
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,359
Speaker 13: actually a continuous and an escalation while adapting to fit

1077
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 13: the current political climate and still like reflecting on some

1078
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 13: of the shortcomings of the quote unquote Wolke era, which

1079
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 13: we see throughout Eddington a lot in the form of like,

1080
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 13: you know, performative politics, especially that like one like Zoomer

1081
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 13: Guy character, Oh yeah, you know, goes on that whole

1082
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 13: rant about like abolishing whiteness to his parents based on

1083
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 13: like googling these concepts like thirty minutes ago, and now

1084
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 13: feels like he has like an academic level understanding of

1085
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 13: whiteness as a concept.

1086
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 14: The intro to him, I guess it's the second it's

1087
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 14: the second time you see him. But he's at the

1088
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 14: he's at the party or whatever.

1089
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 11: Uh, and like he.

1090
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 14: Gives kind of an opinion to this girl that he

1091
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 14: has a crush on. They're talking about like, you know,

1092
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 14: whiteness and like privilege and stuff like that, and he class. Yeah,

1093
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 14: and class is the really like because clearly he I

1094
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 14: think I think he's supposed to kind of be like

1095
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 14: a lower class like character that then yeah, jumps up

1096
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 14: the ranks through political opportunism, right yeah, but yeah, he

1097
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 14: brings up class and is immediately shut down.

1098
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 13: And Google's Angela Davis seconds before, but only but only

1099
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 13: so that he can flirt with a girl more effectively,

1100
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 13: which is very funny.

1101
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 11: Incredible, It's so good.

1102
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 13: Other small bits like that. I really enjoyed that. The

1103
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 13: like fake woke Mayor who's actually just like a tech

1104
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 13: company shill has he him pronouns on his zoom profile.

1105
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 7: Ye, very very funny to me.

1106
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 11: There are so many little things in this movie.

1107
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 13: It's a lot of little stuff. Yeah, and like very

1108
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 13: obviously this was a film that Ariasta wrote well, like

1109
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 13: way too online during twenty twenty, like he was in

1110
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,319
Speaker 13: specifically Twitter, right, this is an extremely Twitter movie, which

1111
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 13: is both works for the movie and sometimes works against

1112
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 13: the movie. I have no idea how this film is

1113
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 13: gonna age. Maybe it'll age very well because we'll use

1114
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 13: it as like a cultural artifact to like look back

1115
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 13: on and be like, yeah, that's kind of what twenty

1116
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 13: twenty felt like.

1117
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 14: In a couple of years, we're all going to be

1118
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 14: looking back on it and saying, how dare they made

1119
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 14: fun of our new currency, crypto, our new bitcoins.

1120
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 11: Everybody has bitcoins.

1121
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 13: All of the bitcoin stuff is really good, like I do.

1122
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 14: Also, I like that they gave the I don't remember

1123
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 14: his name, the black police officer, who's like kind of

1124
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 14: another like main through line for the movie. Yeah, but

1125
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 14: he his only other thing is that he's really into crypto.

1126
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 11: He's so funny, so good.

1127
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 13: If anything, I think Eddington is really good at showcasing

1128
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 13: types of guy. There's so many like type of guys

1129
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 13: in this film, and I think that's one of the

1130
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 13: real highlights. And at least for me, Like I'm obviously

1131
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 13: been very politically aware and engaged since you know, twenty

1132
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 13: eighteen or so especially starting in twenty twenty, So like

1133
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 13: knowing this film is set in twenty twenty and knowing

1134
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 13: it kind of gets into what that year was, like,

1135
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 13: I actually was able to get go into the film

1136
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 13: pretty pretty blind, and I was able to start calling

1137
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 13: shots really fast as soon as as soon as I realized,

1138
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 13: like what what Ari was doing. So like the film

1139
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 13: starts off as this like political satire on like the

1140
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 13: absurdity of COVID Lockdown America, and then we get into

1141
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 13: this like crime thriller genre. Then it concludes with this

1142
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 13: action genre. But at the very start of the film,

1143
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 13: when it's just like this kind of kind of quaint

1144
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,600
Speaker 13: like like like parody of Lockdown America, I was like, okay,

1145
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 13: so at like forty five minute mark, we're gonna get

1146
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 13: George Floyd. Right at at one hour in there's gonna

1147
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 13: be riots our you know, hour fifteen, there's gonna be

1148
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 13: some like Antifa type situation. And I called so many things.

1149
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 13: They just started happening like exactly what I thought they

1150
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 13: were going to. So I was not really surprised by

1151
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 13: anything in this film necessarily. I saw everything it was

1152
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 13: doing like I saw it coming because I, you know,

1153
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 13: lived that for so much of a twenty twenty, especially

1154
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 13: like the twenty twenty protests in Portland, but also my

1155
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 13: familiarity with it was also I was also able to

1156
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 13: then like diagnose how the film was subtly like diverting

1157
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 13: from reality and just showcasing what twenty twenty felt like

1158
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 13: and like what twenty twenty was in the minds of

1159
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 13: like people who believed in conspiracy theories more so than

1160
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 13: the actual reality of twenty twenty, which I will also

1161
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 13: discuss more with Jennie Danger later. But I think specifically

1162
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 13: like the genre switching and then setting up all of

1163
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 13: these like twenty twenty hallmarks, I think the film does

1164
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 13: really well doing like pretty solid foreshadowing and hitting all

1165
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 13: the points you're going to have to hit if you're

1166
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 13: gonna make a film about twenty twenty.

1167
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, we have the wayfarar pedophile closets.

1168
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 13: Totally Q went on cults, child trafficking.

1169
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 14: Yeah, So I watched the movie Network like for four

1170
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 14: days before.

1171
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 11: I watched this.

1172
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,480
Speaker 13: I need to see networks. Oh my god, Robert's been

1173
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 13: trying to get me to watch it for years. I

1174
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 13: just have never found the time. I guess I don't

1175
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 13: know ari.

1176
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 14: Astro like explicitly brought up Network and staid like he

1177
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 14: was thinking about it while making this movie, but that he.

1178
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:58,959
Speaker 11: Wanted it to be more.

1179
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 14: The Network is definitely more like it tells you what

1180
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 14: it means, sure kind of thing, and like what it

1181
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 14: thinks is the right way to do things.

1182
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 13: And this film purposely does not get into that too much.

1183
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 13: It lets its own depiction tell you.

1184
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 11: It doesn't.

1185
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 13: It doesn't like stop you and explain whatever, like you know,

1186
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 13: like what its politics are. I think the movie does

1187
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 13: the politics.

1188
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 14: Yes, but I also I thought in comparing it to Network,

1189
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 14: which I will try my hard it's not to spoil

1190
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 14: the Network, but there is definitely a theme in this

1191
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 14: and in the Network of like forces above, this movie

1192
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 14: is about political puppets about like non political actors, right

1193
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 14: walkin Phoenix's character talks about how like he's not for

1194
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 14: the government, he's for the people kind of thing. So

1195
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 14: he's clearly doing like a populist thing. And then by

1196
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 14: the end of the movie he's all the more like

1197
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 14: he's literally a puppet, right Like, he's like just a

1198
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 14: sack of meat that is like it has to watch

1199
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 14: his mom is not even his mom in law.

1200
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 13: His mother in law, mother in law, ex mother in law.

1201
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 14: It's just incredible, one of the most horrifying concepts. But

1202
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 14: this movie is about like, yeah, a bunch of stuff happens,

1203
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 14: like stuff that's like they're trying to kind of throw

1204
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 14: off the balance.

1205
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 13: Yeah, people are trying to make political change while dealing

1206
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 13: with this problem that politics is both very real, it's physical,

1207
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 13: it determines almost everything about our lives, but it's also

1208
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 13: very vague and nebulous and removed. So like, how do

1209
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 13: you exert agency over something that is both real and

1210
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 13: non real? To be a political actor, do you have

1211
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 13: to literally be like an astroturfed paid actor. The people

1212
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 13: that seemingly have the most political agency aren't even acting

1213
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 13: on any personal agency but instead of just furthering the

1214
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 13: interests of other entities.

1215
01:01:57,080 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 14: Yeah, but the corporation's the big money people whoever's like

1216
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 14: in the background, right the the plane with the giant

1217
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 14: hand holding the globe.

1218
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 11: And the Antifa globe jet.

1219
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,760
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, the the So Okay, here's a question because

1220
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 14: because when I watched it, I thought that it was

1221
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 14: it's like paid actors, right, Like they're paid like a

1222
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 14: paid Colson group.

1223
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 11: That's what that's what I write it as.

1224
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 13: I think it's left for audience interpretation whether whether or

1225
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 13: not this is like the George Soros funded Antifa, like

1226
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 13: Specop's crew, who are genuine about their beliefs, or if

1227
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 13: they're like a false flag crew who's just going around

1228
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 13: so in chaos to promote like political discord, but not

1229
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 13: for like ideological reasons, like just just through like false

1230
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 13: flag attacks. I think it's intentionally left up to the audience,

1231
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 13: and I think it's it's depicting that because of all

1232
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 13: of like the Antifa conspiracy theories going around in twenty twenty,

1233
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 13: and I view that as like a it's like a

1234
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 13: manifestation of how the right wing viewed this concept of Antifa,

1235
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 13: even though Antifa is actually teenagers wearing black hoodies. Yeah,

1236
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 13: but they treated it as if it was this like

1237
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 13: organized group going around doing push ups.

1238
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 14: On their private chat, smoking big cigars, getting air dropped

1239
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 14: into into small towns to go exactly blow things up.

1240
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 7: Is like exactly, so funny of Antifa are coming in.

1241
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 14: Yeah, And then that leads into what I think is

1242
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 14: the best joke in the movie, the TikTok zoomer guy

1243
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 14: shooting while holding his phone and then like it cuts

1244
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 14: immediately into like a now this uh like TikTok about

1245
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 14: the antifas.

1246
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 11: Like militia time is and then.

1247
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 14: He's like a hype guy and he's got like a

1248
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 14: podcast where he's talking about if Michelle Obama's gonna run

1249
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 14: for president or whatever, like so good, what do you

1250
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 14: what do you think of kind of the the semi

1251
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 14: cliffhanger conclusion of some of the threads.

1252
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 11: I guess, hmmm, because and.

1253
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:03,919
Speaker 14: I'm only thinking about this as a cliffhanger because he's

1254
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 14: talked about it him making a sequel, if that makes sense, Yeah.

1255
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,160
Speaker 13: Like a like a loose sequel, Yeah.

1256
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, with like some of the same characters.

1257
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 9: I guess.

1258
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 7: I don't know.

1259
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 13: I have felt pretty satisfied with how this wrapped up,

1260
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,960
Speaker 13: because I mean, twenty twenty did not have a real ending.

1261
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 13: We are still living in the shadow of twenty twenty.

1262
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 13: There's still is loose threads, like COVID still is a

1263
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 13: thing that exists. We're still living with, like the way

1264
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 13: political violence escalated and never fully went away with, especially

1265
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 13: like January sixth, and how even the concept of pedophilia

1266
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 13: still runs almost all of politics. Like this is what

1267
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 13: politics is about. Is like deciding who is and isn't

1268
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 13: a pedophile. Yeah, like the whole conspiracy theory angle. More

1269
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:48,800
Speaker 13: people are conspiracy theorists now than I think they were

1270
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty, including like liberals, Oh yeah, no, the

1271
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 13: whole like blue and on conspiracy theories, the alt National Park,

1272
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 13: Blue Sky accounts, the Trump assassination was stayed, like all

1273
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 13: of that kind of stuff is like, this has just

1274
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 13: become all of what politics is.

1275
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 11: It's what your mom does.

1276
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 14: It's what like your mom, or like your every one

1277
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:11,280
Speaker 14: of your parents.

1278
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 13: Does, and not just your right wing mom. Now, like

1279
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:14,560
Speaker 13: this is like everybody's mom.

1280
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:14,919
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1281
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,240
Speaker 13: And I think that's the sort of American decline that

1282
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 13: ori Astra is depicting, as opposed to the type that

1283
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 13: James Gut is depicting. I think it's much more accurate,

1284
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 13: I agree, And it's much more holistic.

1285
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 11: Yes, I don't think you could.

1286
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 14: I obviously, I don't think you could kind of really

1287
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 14: hold the schizophrenia that the post twenty twenty post lockdown

1288
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 14: political schizophrenia that we exist and currently I agree, where

1289
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:40,280
Speaker 14: like everything is ungrounded.

1290
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 11: You know, you can't do a superhero story like that.

1291
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 11: I don't think there's like no way to do that.

1292
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 13: No, unless you use my favorite superhero, the question Yes,

1293
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 13: in which you could do that and James Gutt if

1294
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 13: you're listening, I will write to a question film and

1295
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 13: it will be crazy. But like in terms of like

1296
01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 13: like filmmaking, I think I think post woke as like

1297
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 13: a filmmaking style, and like what our aster is doing

1298
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 13: here is a reaction to the past, like ten years

1299
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 13: of liberal self aggrandizing movies as content slop right, which

1300
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 13: tries to get points for like diversity casting without having

1301
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 13: any actual like substance of politics or will like gesture

1302
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 13: to things relating to class, even though it's made by

1303
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 13: these big, you know, multi billion dollar corporations. And I

1304
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 13: think I think that whole era produced this sort of

1305
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 13: schizophrenia because everything feels so paradoxical and self contradictory. And

1306
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 13: I think part of the feelings that evokes is what

1307
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 13: Eddington is trying to pull on and depicting those feelings

1308
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 13: as a subject itself, not just as like a background

1309
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 13: thing that we try to either like acknowledge sort of

1310
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 13: or try to like not acknowledge and like ignore. I

1311
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 13: think viewing that that cultural schizophrenia as a subject. If anything,

1312
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 13: that's like the main character of Eddington, and I think

1313
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 13: that's the part that that worked the most for me.

1314
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 14: Yeah, I think structure wise, a lot of people were

1315
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 14: talking about like it feels like too scattered of a movie.

1316
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 14: I think I saw that a lot, and like the

1317
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,080
Speaker 14: critiques of it, and I think, like, sure, if we're

1318
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:14,960
Speaker 14: talking about like just you know, does it become a

1319
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 14: little confusing to follow. Maybe, but it's like that's the point,

1320
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,520
Speaker 14: like and not to say like that's the point, so

1321
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 14: it watches that away. But like, I don't think you can.

1322
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 14: I don't think you can make a movie accurately.

1323
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 13: You can't make a movie about that era without it

1324
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 13: feeling scattered like that.

1325
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's why I really respect ori Astor.

1326
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 14: I think I was talking to my partner yesterday about

1327
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 14: who's the guy that made like.

1328
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 11: Nosferatu and all those movies. Robert Eggers.

1329
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 14: Robert Eggers very good filmmaker, but he's explicitly talked about

1330
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 14: how he doesn't.

1331
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 13: Ever want to do modern films.

1332
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, a modern film, I guess. I haven't seen The Crouds,

1333
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 14: but I've heard very good things about it.

1334
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 7: Me neither me neither.

1335
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, I want to see that movie.

1336
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 14: Because I think Cronenberg is another one who's like I

1337
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 14: also want. I watched so great lineup for this movie.

1338
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 14: I watched Corningberg's What's the Video Drome?

1339
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 7: Recently?

1340
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 13: That did I can definitely see Eddington kind of being

1341
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 13: a grandchild of video drone in some ways.

1342
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 14: I would also recommend. I've also I've been reading Mark

1343
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:18,040
Speaker 14: Fisher's Flat Line Constructs.

1344
01:08:18,280 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 7: This is a very Fisher movie.

1345
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 11: Yeah, very Fisher.

1346
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1347
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 14: I literally I listened to the stupid Russell Brand audio

1348
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 14: Book of Capitalists.

1349
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 7: No, oh, that sucks.

1350
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 14: I know Russell Brand sucks, but I was at work

1351
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 14: and I just needed something to listen to. So I

1352
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 14: didn't like blow my head off, and it didn't end

1353
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 14: up working out actually because I was working my shitty

1354
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 14: job and listening.

1355
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:47,919
Speaker 13: To capitalist Brandy Russell Brand, Russell Brands Capitalist Realism.

1356
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:49,759
Speaker 11: Oh God, what a bummer.

1357
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, truly, Mark Fisher is only l Yeah.

1358
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 14: It is unbearable to have to listen to his voice,

1359
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 14: but it's a great book. I would definitely recommend reading

1360
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 14: that if he want to go into Eddington even more

1361
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,559
Speaker 14: like Locked In, I guess, but this is a very

1362
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 14: like yeah, like you know, capital can convert anything into

1363
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 14: the image of something else. There was one shot that

1364
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 14: I really I found very evocative, which was the shot

1365
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 14: of like him walking Phoenix's characters having his haircut by

1366
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 14: his whatever stepmom ex stepmom, and she's talking about like

1367
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 14: conspiracy theory while filming it. That's good for TikTok, And

1368
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 14: it's like this is so perfect and so morbid, and.

1369
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 13: Like, yeah, no, there's there's a little bit of like

1370
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 13: Butdriard's book on America here, there's certainly a lot of

1371
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 13: ged Aboard in this, and I think that also was

1372
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,600
Speaker 13: part of what relates it to me to Superman is

1373
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 13: how much like Superman is accidentally doing geed aboard regarding

1374
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 13: the genocide and Palestine, and how much I think that

1375
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,439
Speaker 13: critique is actually built into Eddington.

1376
01:09:58,840 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 9: No.

1377
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 14: Absolutely, yeah, I I Superman is such an an interesting

1378
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 14: movie to take on that subject because obviously, in a

1379
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 14: way you're kind of like, well, good for James Gunn

1380
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 14: for doing something daring.

1381
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 11: I guess daring, I say with air quotes.

1382
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 14: But it's also like you have the Israel Palestine stuff

1383
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 14: placed right after a scene where Superman saves a green

1384
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 14: baby from a river of like cosmic sludge.

1385
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 7: Of like CGI squares.

1386
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, which, by the way, I'm sure I don't know

1387
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 14: if this is the general consensus, but I thought that

1388
01:10:33,120 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 14: that scene was ugliest sin and I kind of hated it.

1389
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 13: Also, I hated the whole Pocket dimension. Yeah, aspect. I

1390
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 13: don't know why they didn't do a quick like ten

1391
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:45,800
Speaker 13: minute interlude into the phantom zone keep hit that. But no,

1392
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 13: I think that that whole Pocket Dimension like forty minutes

1393
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 13: like derailed and stagnated a lot of the film for

1394
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 13: me and did not look very good.

1395
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 14: He's doing like Lex Luthor's Peter Thiel, Lex Luthor is

1396
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 14: Elon Musk Lex Luthor's, which could work. Yeah, yeah, which

1397
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 14: I think. I think I found it funny at least

1398
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 14: I said, like totally. I watched it and I thought like, oh,

1399
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 14: I know what he's doing. You know that he's Peter Thiel,

1400
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 14: shut down Gawker or.

1401
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 7: Whatever, crying men baby.

1402
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1403
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 14: Yeah, so it's like I get it, But I also,

1404
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 14: I mean, it's been done before, kind of thing, like

1405
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 14: I don't find it, you know that I don't know,

1406
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 14: but he Hey, his performance is great, But then the

1407
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 14: whole Palestine stuff is also capped off with a scene

1408
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 14: where lesh Luthor gets like bullied by a dog. You know,

1409
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 14: it's sandwiched between two things that are just like I

1410
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 14: don't know if you can do this or if you

1411
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 14: should do this, Like I don't know, No.

1412
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 9: It is.

1413
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 13: I think it's it's part of that sort of cultural

1414
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 13: schizophrenia that I think that Eddington is pulling on. Yeah

1415
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 13: is moments like that in the David Zaslov Winner Brothers, Discovery,

1416
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:52,799
Speaker 13: Superman twenty twenty five.

1417
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 11: And Eddington just is.

1418
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,639
Speaker 14: You know, it's a film that is like its entire

1419
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,280
Speaker 14: thesis is that is the yeah is, the jumping around

1420
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 14: the just ret like his car is covered in shit

1421
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 14: for the entire movie.

1422
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 11: I love it so funny.

1423
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 14: All the all the slogans are like kind of like

1424
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 14: they're all trying to put in their own little thing,

1425
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,839
Speaker 14: you know, Like he's like, can we make it about bitcoin?

1426
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 11: Can we make it about.

1427
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 13: It's like a twenty twenty conservative Facebook feed brought to life.

1428
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 14: Yes, Yes, it's a great movie. I love Eddingson. I

1429
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,679
Speaker 14: think that this movie will age very well.

1430
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 13: Well, what would you like to plug Bailey new poster?

1431
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 14: I think you should follow me If you have an

1432
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 14: X you should follow me.

1433
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,960
Speaker 11: On at what is it called at New Poster two

1434
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:41,720
Speaker 11: on x.

1435
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 14: If you're on Instagram, you should follow me at postalytical Bling,

1436
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 14: which is a terrible username, but I made.

1437
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 11: It's my writing user name, like ages ago, I think.

1438
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 14: And then on Blue Sky, if you use that, you

1439
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 14: should follow me it what even is michaelue Sky?

1440
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 11: I don't even use I'm gonna be honest, I don't

1441
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:00,200
Speaker 11: use blues guy.

1442
01:13:00,320 --> 01:13:02,639
Speaker 13: But if you if we got to fix the vibes

1443
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 13: on there, baby, we we got it, we got we

1444
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 13: got we got to get more like crazy crazy unhinged

1445
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:08,639
Speaker 13: art on Blue Start all.

1446
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:13,040
Speaker 14: Right, Uh, it's it's New Poster Dot, Bluesky dot social

1447
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 14: or whatever.

1448
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 11: So there you go if you need that. There, there's

1449
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 11: the there's the plugs.

1450
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 13: Well, thank you for coming on to talk about Eddington

1451
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:21,639
Speaker 13: and Superman.

1452
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:24,639
Speaker 11: Thank you so much for inviting me. This has been wonderful.

1453
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,560
Speaker 14: I love Eddington, I enjoyed Superman, so this is a

1454
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 14: good talk.

1455
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 13: There you go, Lovely Lovely. For the last segment of

1456
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 13: our post Woke Cinema episode, I'm gonna play a conversation

1457
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 13: I had with Atlanta musician Janey Danger, who we talk

1458
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 13: about her thoughts on the film Eddington and the way

1459
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 13: it manifests twenty twenties hyperreality.

1460
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 11: A little background.

1461
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 15: I guess, like I really like ariost I remember talking

1462
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:06,719
Speaker 15: with you about Bo's Afraid a while ago.

1463
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,599
Speaker 11: I remember you weren't a huge fan of it.

1464
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 7: Not so hot.

1465
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 13: I'm Bo's Afraid. I'm Afraid. I wanted to like it too,

1466
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 13: because whenever people talk about this like like like off putting,

1467
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 13: long slow cinema about like anxiety, like I want to

1468
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 13: like that, Like Illa Dumpayer is one of the best films. Ever,

1469
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 13: there's other other other films that do is that that

1470
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 13: that also tackle its not just like David Lynch. Yeah,

1471
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 13: and like the rest of ari Astor, I was always

1472
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 13: like lukewarm to kind of positive on Like, I don't

1473
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 13: hate him as a filmmaker. I don't have that as

1474
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 13: part of my personality way some people do. Yeah, I

1475
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 13: think his movies are just fine. I think he does

1476
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 13: dabble in or. I guess he like overlies on a

1477
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 13: degree of shalk value, which you could even see in

1478
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:51,800
Speaker 13: his earlier like student films. Yeah, I think are like

1479
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:56,599
Speaker 13: very juvenile and not interesting. I think Hereditary's fine. So

1480
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:59,160
Speaker 13: aria Aster has always been there but I've never been

1481
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:00,839
Speaker 13: like a a story in Bio.

1482
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 15: I think he's kind of cool to hate now, Like

1483
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 15: I think with he's very cool to hate now people

1484
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 15: really like hating him.

1485
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 13: But Eddington I think has done him a lot of

1486
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 13: favors though among the people who used to hate him.

1487
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 15: I've kind of noticed that it seems like with Hereditary

1488
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 15: in Midsummer, those were generally like very well received by

1489
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 15: like the A twenty four crowd, and it was kind

1490
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 15: of like, I guess the cool opinion would be to

1491
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:26,840
Speaker 15: be like those movies are mid and then like Bo

1492
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:28,799
Speaker 15: Was Afraid as a masterpiece or whatever.

1493
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 11: I like his horror movies.

1494
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 15: I think they're slick, well made films with good stories.

1495
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 15: I love bo Was Afraid though, I think it's incredible,

1496
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 15: but it is not the kind of it's the kind

1497
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 15: of movie that, like, as much as I love it,

1498
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 15: as much as it means to me, as seen as

1499
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 15: I feel by that film, it's not the kind of

1500
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 15: thing that like, if you don't like it, I'm not

1501
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 15: gonna like convince you, you know, like there's probably like

1502
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 15: if you told me you didn't like Maholland Drive, like

1503
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 15: I'd be like, you're fucking stupid and wrong.

1504
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 7: You're dumb if you tell me you don't like was.

1505
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,600
Speaker 15: Afraid, It's like fair enough, It's it's sure certainly the

1506
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 15: kind of thing that's not for everyone. I bring it

1507
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 15: up mostly because I think with bo and Eddington, it's

1508
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 15: a very interesting thing he does that is kind of

1509
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 15: I guess I compared to maybe like French new wave directors,

1510
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 15: maybe like something like Selene and Julie go Boding, where

1511
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 15: the like protagonists are living in like a fake insane reality,

1512
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 15: where in other directors, like most other films, like you'd

1513
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 15: have someone who's like going insane and hallucinating and like

1514
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:41,719
Speaker 15: everyone's trying to kill them, et cetera.

1515
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,520
Speaker 11: And then maybe there would be like a cut.

1516
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:46,000
Speaker 7: Which is kind of what happens to bow Is Afraid.

1517
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, but in other movies there would maybe be like

1518
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 15: a cut away for someone else where they see like

1519
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:54,400
Speaker 15: the character like arguing to a shadow like.

1520
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 13: The quote unquote real perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1521
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 15: And I think that bo Is Afraid it's like it's no,

1522
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,519
Speaker 15: this is real, And I think Eddington does a very

1523
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 15: similar thing where the beliefs of the characters are real,

1524
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 15: and that's why like you know, all the conservatives, Like

1525
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:16,679
Speaker 15: I mean, if you remember twenty twenty, they're like there's

1526
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,759
Speaker 15: Antipho super soldiers that are going out and doing terrorism.

1527
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,839
Speaker 15: It's like so in this world, in the Eddington universe,

1528
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,759
Speaker 15: it's like what if that was real?

1529
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 11: Like what if Fox.

1530
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:29,599
Speaker 15: News was actually in motion here? And I think that's

1531
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 15: very interesting.

1532
01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:32,600
Speaker 13: The approach that he does in Eddington, I think is

1533
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 13: a little bit more subtle than the way there's in

1534
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 13: bos Afraid, because you start the film way way more

1535
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,799
Speaker 13: as like a as like you know, a political satire

1536
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 13: on the absurdity of like pandemic era America, and then

1537
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:49,760
Speaker 13: the reality starts diverting from what we can agree as

1538
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:52,080
Speaker 13: like as like a shared consensus reality. Yeah, and then

1539
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,920
Speaker 13: it it diverts from that the same way reality diverted

1540
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 13: away from that in twenty twenty for people, and we

1541
01:17:57,160 --> 01:17:59,839
Speaker 13: created this like yeah, massive like reality fracture.

1542
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1543
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 13: Like the first time I noticed this in the filmmaking

1544
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 13: was there was like a news clip about like a

1545
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 13: Portland riot in twenty twenty, and it had people like

1546
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 13: exchanging gunfire on rooftops and it was played next to

1547
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 13: actual news clips of like the Third Precinct burning down,

1548
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 13: like it was played off as like a real, legitimate

1549
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 13: news clip. Yeah, and like I was, I lived in

1550
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 13: Portland in twenty twenty. I know that's not real. But

1551
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 13: to many people viewing, they might not catch that. That

1552
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,200
Speaker 13: might just be like, that might just go into the background.

1553
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,599
Speaker 13: So at that point I realized that actually the way

1554
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 13: that reality is getting diverted in the film is way

1555
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 13: more subtle. And then of course you get like the

1556
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 13: Antifa super soldier private jet later and it's more obvious

1557
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 13: like what he's doing. But even like small things like that,

1558
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 13: I started to really appreciate you, Like, no, you're like

1559
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 13: getting into the mind of people who believe these things,

1560
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 13: and that's what we're that's what's being depicted, Like the

1561
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 13: feelings of twenty twenty are more important than the reality

1562
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 13: of twenty twenty, and that is what he's trying to show.

1563
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,360
Speaker 15: That's even kind of like a meta in a sense,

1564
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 15: because it's like if you watch that that scene of

1565
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:07,160
Speaker 15: like the footage of the Portland like shooting and stuff,

1566
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 15: and you as the audience or like questioning if that

1567
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 15: was real, then it's like your consensus reality is also

1568
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 15: diverging from the regular consensus reality. It's like it kind

1569
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 15: of makes you a cipher for the characters, which which

1570
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 15: also leads me to something something else. So something I

1571
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 15: don't see a lot of people talking about. But the

1572
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 15: vagrant character that that starts the film where he comes

1573
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 15: in and he's just like mumbling like messages. And if

1574
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 15: you've ever been around like a you know, like a

1575
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:43,799
Speaker 15: homeless person on a bus or something, they like to mumble.

1576
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 15: And it's I read that as someone who's like just

1577
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:54,559
Speaker 15: essentially doing what everyone else in this movie eventually comes

1578
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 15: to do totally, yes, which is just taking all of

1579
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:02,920
Speaker 15: your like internalized like messages, traumas, like things you've heard,

1580
01:20:03,080 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 15: things you believe, and just like grumbling it, spitting it out.

1581
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 15: And so anyone who talks to you, you just incessantly

1582
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 15: just like messages, messages, messages.

1583
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 13: Dissimilarity of that character to like the Mom character, who

1584
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 13: does the same thing but is seen in a very

1585
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 13: different way. Yeah, because of a house, she has like

1586
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 13: a home to live in and has like family.

1587
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 15: Yeah, absolutely, And there's no there's no place for a

1588
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,880
Speaker 15: person like the vagrant in this world, but there is

1589
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 15: a place for all these other types of insane people.

1590
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:37,560
Speaker 15: And they're all able to find their little little niches

1591
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,640
Speaker 15: and such, when maybe in a world before that and

1592
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 15: a world before it was so easy to find such niches,

1593
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 15: maybe like you would I don't know, go to therapy,

1594
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 15: maybe like maybe your.

1595
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 11: Family would would be concerned.

1596
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 15: It is very interesting because people very are are very

1597
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,800
Speaker 15: prone now, and it's like that's because they're able to

1598
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 15: like get pulled into these cults. They find their own

1599
01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 15: kind of Austin Butler figure who's able to talk to

1600
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:11,839
Speaker 15: them directly and be like, no, come with me, you're okay,

1601
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,680
Speaker 15: and just to go back to the point of like

1602
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 15: messages and stuff. I think that the uh, the Joaquin

1603
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 15: Phoenix character. I think he starts out as a very

1604
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 15: like uh like Hank Hill, like very I mean he

1605
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 15: doesn't he doesn't want to wear a mask. He's obviously

1606
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,840
Speaker 15: leans a bit conservative, but.

1607
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 13: But he's like trying to kind of be like a

1608
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 13: reasonable guy.

1609
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 15: Right, And I see him as someone who's trying to

1610
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 15: like avoid the messaging from everyone. Like even when people

1611
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 15: tell him about like certain news stories and stuff, he's like,

1612
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 15: I don't know, like he just doesn't know. And yeah,

1613
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,439
Speaker 15: in the process of him like avoiding all these messages,

1614
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 15: what does he do. He buys a truck and covers

1615
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 15: it in fucking messages.

1616
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,759
Speaker 13: In messages he starts broadcasting his reality to everyone around

1617
01:21:58,840 --> 01:21:59,640
Speaker 13: him exactly.

1618
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,120
Speaker 15: It's like, I don't know, I think that normally, normally

1619
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 15: I would call it bad writing for like every character

1620
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 15: to be like a cipher. But I think what he

1621
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,519
Speaker 15: does in this is is really really interesting. Like I

1622
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 15: think it's a I don't know, I guess, like one

1623
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:17,559
Speaker 15: more thing that I really like, do want to say,

1624
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 15: is like Ari Astor did an interview with Will Minker

1625
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 15: and Hesse of like Chapo, and he said that he

1626
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,839
Speaker 15: kind of wanted to make this movie like a Rorshack

1627
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:36,800
Speaker 15: test of sorts, and I think he maybe overly succeeded

1628
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,480
Speaker 15: in that definitely. And in fact, if I had one criticism,

1629
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 15: it's that maybe I wish there was like a few

1630
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 15: things like tied together that and I just wish Austin

1631
01:22:46,640 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 15: Butler and emm A.

1632
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 11: Stone got a little more meat to do things.

1633
01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 15: But aside from that, one of the biggest criticisms that

1634
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 15: I'm honestly just going to dismiss outright as people saying

1635
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:59,520
Speaker 15: that this is like a centrist movie totally, or comparing

1636
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,720
Speaker 15: this to South Park or something like that. And if

1637
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 15: you view this as a centrist movie, I mean, the

1638
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 15: liberals in this are like kind of annoying and effectual.

1639
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 11: A lot of them don't really believe what they do.

1640
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 11: Some of them do.

1641
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 15: I think the girl character is very sympathetic, but like

1642
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 15: the younger girl. But Joaquin Phoenix, the ostensible, like you know,

1643
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 15: right wing version of this, kills a child, like he

1644
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,520
Speaker 15: kills three people, including like a teenager.

1645
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:30,840
Speaker 13: Like the woke characters engage with politics in a that

1646
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 13: but and self serving way to mask their own insecurities

1647
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,000
Speaker 13: and shortcomings and for their own personal benefit. The right

1648
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 13: wing characters murder and have rape cults, and.

1649
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 15: Yeah, right, Like I don't I don't see how you

1650
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,439
Speaker 15: could look at the actions of the characters in this

1651
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 15: film and just be like, yeah, I guess everyone is stupid.

1652
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 15: I guess everyone is wrong because it's like no, like

1653
01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 15: I mean, I guess everyone is a little stupid and

1654
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 15: everyone is kind of wrong about things. But like, that's

1655
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 15: not like what it's getting across. I think that's a

1656
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 15: very shallow read of the film.

1657
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,680
Speaker 13: This is what people outside of the Brooklyn theater were

1658
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 13: complaining about when I eavesdropped for like nearly forty five

1659
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 13: minutes after the film, just to hear what people were

1660
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 13: talking about. I love eavesdropping, I love snooping, So I

1661
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 13: was really feasting out there. And Yeah, a lot of

1662
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:24,639
Speaker 13: people upset at how quote unquote little this film had

1663
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 13: to say. It's just it's just depicting these things but

1664
01:24:27,240 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 13: doesn't have the audacity to actually like say anything about

1665
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:33,920
Speaker 13: them or like take a quote unquote stance, and like, yeah,

1666
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:36,920
Speaker 13: that's so not what the film is trying to do.

1667
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,599
Speaker 13: That the film is pointing out, like the social media

1668
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 13: style engagement with politics is it's incredibly self serving thing,

1669
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:46,639
Speaker 13: and it's this performance that we put on for other

1670
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 13: people and sometimes put on even for ourselves. And twenty

1671
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,719
Speaker 13: twenty was away because of the conditions of the lockdown,

1672
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:56,880
Speaker 13: the Internet and real life combined in a way more

1673
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,800
Speaker 13: like totalistically than they have ever before. And then that

1674
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 13: combination grew pressure and shot outwards into physical reality in

1675
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:08,120
Speaker 13: a very bombastic way, both for the twenty twenty protests

1676
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 13: and eventually something like January sixth, right, both these things, Yeah,

1677
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 13: I think you can you can look at a similar

1678
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 13: like a political pressure like building and manifesting, and it's

1679
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 13: not saying these things are like equal. It's not the

1680
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:22,160
Speaker 13: centrist I'm better than thou for you look at all

1681
01:25:22,160 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 13: these crazy guys. But it's it's talking about how we

1682
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,200
Speaker 13: as a culture associate with politics now, and like how

1683
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 13: as like American culture we associate with politics now, and

1684
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 13: maybe that's kind of troubling and kind of scary. That's

1685
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:37,960
Speaker 13: like the horror of the film is ye, the way

1686
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,839
Speaker 13: that we associate with social media politics now is really frightening.

1687
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 13: Which isn't like a revolutionary thing to say, right. This

1688
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 13: isn't like, you know, breaking new ground here, but he

1689
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:48,680
Speaker 13: is expressing something that everyone I think has felt at

1690
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:52,600
Speaker 13: a certain point. Sure, but it's it's it's presented in

1691
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,200
Speaker 13: a way that I think is it very much is

1692
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:56,679
Speaker 13: a Rorscha act test for a lot of people.

1693
01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 15: I think a lot of people are uncomfortable. I think

1694
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 15: some people just see too much of themselves, and like

1695
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 15: I was speaking specifically to like liberal audiences, I think

1696
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:08,880
Speaker 15: a lot of them are seeing something of themselves and

1697
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 15: they feel like they're being made fun of and they

1698
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,640
Speaker 15: don't appreciate that. I'll just say I was I was

1699
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,640
Speaker 15: at the Black Lives Matter protests and stuff. I was

1700
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 15: there and I don't feel that way. No, I don't

1701
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 15: think I was being made fun of. Yeah, I don't

1702
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:25,679
Speaker 15: like Like I think that like that's kind of on

1703
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 15: you as a viewer for like expecting a movie to

1704
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 15: like look directly in the camera and be like, I

1705
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,800
Speaker 15: believe the same things you believe, you know, because that's

1706
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 15: I mean, that's bad filmmaking, that's bad writing.

1707
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 13: Explains the exact type of communist that I am.

1708
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,120
Speaker 11: Right, Yes, I'm the exact kind of leftist you are.

1709
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:46,160
Speaker 15: We are on the same side and we're all laughing

1710
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:47,519
Speaker 15: at the same things together.

1711
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 13: It's like, no, and if if your engagement with like

1712
01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 13: social justice and anti police brutality protests is shallow enough

1713
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 13: to feel called out in a film like this, I

1714
01:26:57,520 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 13: think that is cause more for self reflection and for

1715
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:01,679
Speaker 13: while you participated in those things.

1716
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 11: Yeah, I agree.

1717
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,680
Speaker 13: Not a fault of the film where it's not the

1718
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:09,200
Speaker 13: film taking a stance against those things. I think it's

1719
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 13: it's showing there's certain types of people who who participated

1720
01:27:12,560 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 13: in an extremely performative and like self serving manner, and

1721
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 13: like specifically the way that like the main like like

1722
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 13: like zoomer guy character who in the end becomes a

1723
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:27,440
Speaker 13: right wing grifter. It's like it's I think this manifests

1724
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:31,400
Speaker 13: this like like like perfectly, like I think his his character,

1725
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 13: I think is one of the funniest characters in the film.

1726
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:37,120
Speaker 13: One of one of the best jokes is just him

1727
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:37,800
Speaker 13: like liking a.

1728
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:39,879
Speaker 11: Tweet googling Angela Davos.

1729
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 13: So I think that kind of stuff is more what

1730
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 13: it's talking about. And when you have those types of

1731
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,320
Speaker 13: people being some of the most vocal people at these events,

1732
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 13: it contributes to this like kind of psychosis and that

1733
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:56,800
Speaker 13: I think that's what the film is is specifically saying.

1734
01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 15: I mean, did we forget that people like Sean King

1735
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 15: were like popular in twenty twenty. Look, if you see

1736
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:07,639
Speaker 15: this and like the portrayal of like these liberal characters

1737
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,000
Speaker 15: doesn't apply to you, I don't know why you're mad.

1738
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 15: I don't know why you would like look at that

1739
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 15: and be like, oh, they're making fun of me and everything.

1740
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:18,880
Speaker 15: I believe because if it doesn't apply to you, then

1741
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 15: it doesn't apply to you. And that was how I

1742
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 15: watched the film, Like I didn't feel like any of

1743
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 15: these characters applied to me.

1744
01:28:26,560 --> 01:28:28,479
Speaker 11: So I don't really care.

1745
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 15: And I guess a final point is like I haven't

1746
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 15: heard anyone else say this, but like Sheriff Joe at

1747
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 15: the end of the film is I feel like it's

1748
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 15: very unsubtle symbolism to say that he's lobotomized.

1749
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 11: With if Ice stabbed in the in the head with

1750
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:48,639
Speaker 11: a knife.

1751
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 13: That's what's happened to all of us in a way.

1752
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:54,479
Speaker 15: And I mean, it's funny that Ariastra avoided a lot

1753
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 15: of mother related trauma up until the very very end

1754
01:28:58,439 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 15: of the movie.

1755
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 13: The very last he had to squeezed it in there.

1756
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 15: I know, I know which it was, I know, and

1757
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 15: he's being like raised in the bed and this kind

1758
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:11,840
Speaker 15: of like angelic like ascension kind of thing.

1759
01:29:12,479 --> 01:29:12,960
Speaker 11: I don't know.

1760
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:17,120
Speaker 15: I think that it's I think it's a pretty unsubtle

1761
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:20,880
Speaker 15: and funny way of saying that, like there's really for

1762
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:25,640
Speaker 15: some people after going fully there in like being insane,

1763
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 15: after like just plunging yourself into the heart of all

1764
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 15: of this like chaos and unreality, that the only thing

1765
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 15: that is going to save you is a lobotomy, if

1766
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:43,160
Speaker 15: nothing else. I think that's very funny. So yeah, I

1767
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 15: enjoyed it a lot. I've wondered after about a week

1768
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 15: after I saw it, I was kicking it around in

1769
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,640
Speaker 15: my head more and I was wondering, like, will this

1770
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 15: grow on me?

1771
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:54,439
Speaker 11: Will this age well?

1772
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:56,800
Speaker 15: And I think it definitely has grown on me the

1773
01:29:57,439 --> 01:29:58,639
Speaker 15: more I've thought about it.

1774
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 13: Same it has also grown me more over time. Once

1775
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:02,720
Speaker 13: I got out of the theater, I was storting through

1776
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 13: a lot of different feelings about what I just saw

1777
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 13: and it has definitely grown me over time. Where can

1778
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,120
Speaker 13: people find you and your work?

1779
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,639
Speaker 15: Yeah, so I'm a musician. You can go to Janie

1780
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:17,599
Speaker 15: Danger dot com and find most of my links and stuff.

1781
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:20,519
Speaker 15: I have a new song and video out. I'm working

1782
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 15: on a new album that should come out later this year.

1783
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:26,040
Speaker 15: And if you're in the Atlanta area, I'm playing a

1784
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,680
Speaker 15: show at the end of August at Bogs Social and

1785
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:35,200
Speaker 15: the Mainline Music Festival in September. But if you follow

1786
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 15: me on like Instagram or whatever, you should have all

1787
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 15: your updates there and you can follow me on letterbox

1788
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 15: at Janey Danger.

1789
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 11: So yeah, thanks for having me.

1790
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 7: Thank you Jane.

1791
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:47,880
Speaker 13: That does it for us at it could happen here.

1792
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:51,360
Speaker 13: Thanks once again to Jane Danger and Bailey new Poster.

1793
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 13: Follow them both online. They do great work. If you

1794
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 13: want some good music, listen to Jane. If you want

1795
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 13: some cool art, look up a Bailey new poster.

1796
01:30:59,640 --> 01:30:59,800
Speaker 4: Hope.

1797
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 13: I guess I will hopefully see you on the other

1798
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 13: side of this post Woke Nightmare, Bye Bye, Welcome to

1799
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 13: It could happen here a show about things falling apart,

1800
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,200
Speaker 13: and today the thing falling apart is the Internet. And

1801
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:41,639
Speaker 13: today we have a special guest episode with Bridget Todd.

1802
01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 16: Hello Bridget, So Garrett, it's kind of funny that we

1803
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 16: are talking just a few days after the Trump administration

1804
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:51,719
Speaker 16: put out there Woke AI executive Order.

1805
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 13: Yes, I have not read this yet. I have to

1806
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 13: for next week's executive Disorder. I'm not looking forward to it.

1807
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,800
Speaker 16: I liked that the Cool Zone team kind of sections

1808
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:06,040
Speaker 16: off all the Trump federal nonsense so you don't have

1809
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 16: to be mired in it all the goddamn time.

1810
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 13: I still kind of am. I just schedule it throughout

1811
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,479
Speaker 13: my week. I guess there's certain days where I have

1812
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 13: to do it.

1813
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, you gotta pepper it in. You've got to pepper

1814
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:16,160
Speaker 7: it in.

1815
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 16: Well, yeah, not to give you a spoiler for when

1816
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,640
Speaker 16: you dive into it yourself, but it's all nonsense. Basically,

1817
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 16: the Trump administration is saying that right now, the biggest

1818
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,959
Speaker 16: threat regarding AI is it being too woke and essentially

1819
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 16: telling folks who make AI tech leaders essentially to be

1820
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 16: more like Elon Musk and Grock and make sure that

1821
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,800
Speaker 16: your AI models, the only AI models that we will

1822
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:44,160
Speaker 16: accept in this country are the non woke ones, ones

1823
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 16: that don't incorporate DEI would love to know more about

1824
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:49,280
Speaker 16: what he thinks that means, but that's a little preview

1825
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:49,639
Speaker 16: for you.

1826
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 13: Fantastic, you know, seems like the most important issue facing

1827
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:53,960
Speaker 13: our nationent right now.

1828
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:55,920
Speaker 7: Definitely, definitely.

1829
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,839
Speaker 16: And so it's funny that we're talking about AI because

1830
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 16: I don't know if you're on TikTok, but there have

1831
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 16: been these kind of shockingly racist AI generated videos all

1832
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 16: over TikTok, to the point where I would say that

1833
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:15,719
Speaker 16: we are witnessing the revival of the Minstrel Show using

1834
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 16: AI on social media. This is not a claim I

1835
01:33:18,080 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 16: used lightly. That is how extreme some of this content is.

1836
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:24,200
Speaker 13: I'm not on TikTok, but I think I've seen some

1837
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:30,440
Speaker 13: of this content permeate across platforms, certainly on like Instagram

1838
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:34,040
Speaker 13: reels and even even bits of X the everything app

1839
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,200
Speaker 13: I love that you call it that that's the full name.

1840
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 16: So for folks who don't know, I want to scround

1841
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 16: the conversation in what a minstrel show is. So the

1842
01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:48,719
Speaker 16: minstrel show was a incredibly popular form of American theater

1843
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,719
Speaker 16: and entertainment in the nineteenth century, where mostly but not all,

1844
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:56,599
Speaker 16: white performers would wear black face makeup to make themselves

1845
01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:01,080
Speaker 16: look like These exaggerated racist versions of black people and

1846
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:06,600
Speaker 16: essentially portray very racist stereotypes of black folks being lazy buffoons.

1847
01:34:06,640 --> 01:34:10,799
Speaker 16: And a common trope in these skits was black people

1848
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 16: trying and failing to gain American citizenship because at the time,

1849
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 16: black Americans did not have full citizenship, and so a

1850
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 16: big plotline would be like, Oh, we had to take

1851
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 16: a test for citizenship, but we were too stupid to

1852
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 16: figure it out. Are we spaced the data and overslept

1853
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 16: because we're very lazy. When these shows would depict black women,

1854
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:30,920
Speaker 16: we were often shown as what you might think up

1855
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 16: as like a sapphire caricature, which is rude, loud, malicious, stubborn,

1856
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 16: and overbearing, kind of like the angry black woman trope

1857
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,200
Speaker 16: that you probably are familiar with in media today. So

1858
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:48,040
Speaker 16: these skits were incredibly popular entertainment, but they also served

1859
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 16: the purpose of reaffirming political and social ideologies.

1860
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 7: And so, you know, the dominant.

1861
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 16: Way that people consumed media regarding Black people showed us

1862
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:01,880
Speaker 16: as lazy, stupid, angry, loud, and important, not really able

1863
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 16: to conform to the dominant culture of like mainstream, hardworking

1864
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:10,280
Speaker 16: white Americans. That is obviously an incredibly powerful tool to

1865
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,960
Speaker 16: uphold and reaffirm the idea that black folks should not

1866
01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:16,800
Speaker 16: be given full citizenship, should not be given full rights,

1867
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 16: cannot be you know, integrated into polite white society. And

1868
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,000
Speaker 16: it almost kind of became this for their own good

1869
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:28,640
Speaker 16: attitude that provided like a polite justification for things like segregation.

1870
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 7: Well like, oh, well, you know.

1871
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,599
Speaker 16: I've seen in minstrel shows that black folks are very

1872
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 16: lazy and stupid, So it's an as for their own

1873
01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 16: good that we treat them like shit in society, do

1874
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:38,680
Speaker 16: you feel me?

1875
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:42,520
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a sort of like infantilization exactly.

1876
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 16: And so even though the minstrel show did die out,

1877
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 16: I would argue that we are kind of seeing a

1878
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 16: little bit of a comeback using AI in the digital realm,

1879
01:35:52,160 --> 01:35:55,120
Speaker 16: and just like the minstrual shows of yesteryear were used

1880
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 16: to affirm political and social ideologies under the guise of

1881
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:01,800
Speaker 16: just being in a payment or just being jokes or

1882
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,520
Speaker 16: just being funny. I really think it's not a coincidence

1883
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:08,439
Speaker 16: that we're also seeing the rise of digital blackface, where

1884
01:36:08,479 --> 01:36:11,839
Speaker 16: non black creators are using AI to create these viral

1885
01:36:12,120 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 16: racist skits that are steeped in black stereotypes, and that

1886
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 16: they're really taking off all over social media today.

1887
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,439
Speaker 13: That sounds not fun to hear about, but I'm excited

1888
01:36:21,479 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 13: for you to explain it to me.

1889
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:28,240
Speaker 16: Yes, So I will say, initially, the first iteration of

1890
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:31,559
Speaker 16: one of these videos that I saw was not really racist.

1891
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:34,320
Speaker 16: It was made by a black creator, I think, trying

1892
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 16: to use AI to create sort of humorous skits. But

1893
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 16: when that first video took off, people on TikTok started

1894
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:44,280
Speaker 16: using AI to create more and more extreme, more and

1895
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:47,960
Speaker 16: more racist iterations of these kinds of videos, which is

1896
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:50,799
Speaker 16: what we're seeing today. So I will play a little

1897
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,479
Speaker 16: snippet of an example for you. What's up, bitch, is

1898
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 16: this bigfoot one hand the baddest bitch in the woods?

1899
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 7: Part time cryptic, full time problem. Don't follow me if

1900
01:36:57,560 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 7: you scared a please.

1901
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,479
Speaker 16: So, but this is a TikTok that got over two

1902
01:37:02,479 --> 01:37:05,879
Speaker 16: million views, and it basically it uses AI to generate

1903
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 16: this black woman stereotypical version of Bigfoot, and this account

1904
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 16: is so popular that has generated so many copycats, Like

1905
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:19,639
Speaker 16: this is a format that has really hit with TikTok.

1906
01:37:20,240 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 7: There also is another kind of bucket of these.

1907
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:27,040
Speaker 16: That people call slave talk, where it uses AI to

1908
01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 16: sort of reimagine enslaved people on plantations if they had

1909
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,599
Speaker 16: social media and we're doing vlogs and so a lot

1910
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 16: of those videos were taken down by TikTok, which is

1911
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:41,040
Speaker 16: I think good, but essentially it would reimagine these AI

1912
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 16: in generated enslaved people basically saying like, oh, well, yeah,

1913
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 16: I do have to work out here in the cotton fields,

1914
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:49,679
Speaker 16: but at least I'm going to get meals. At least

1915
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,000
Speaker 16: I have a roof over my head, essentially really affirming

1916
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:55,679
Speaker 16: the idea that, like slavery, wasn't that bad.

1917
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:58,200
Speaker 11: One of the more heinous.

1918
01:37:57,880 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 16: Examples that I saw of these that was removed from

1919
01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 16: TikTok was a TikTok shop sponsored video that showed an

1920
01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 16: AI generated enslaved person working in the fields wearing a

1921
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 16: solar powered hat with a sand in it, and basically

1922
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 16: he was like, Oh, this work in the field would

1923
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 16: be so horrible if I did not have this hat.

1924
01:38:16,760 --> 01:38:17,920
Speaker 7: And then there's a little.

1925
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:20,040
Speaker 16: Link to the TikTok shop and you can buy the

1926
01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:23,759
Speaker 16: actual hat, which is just some really dystopian awful shit.

1927
01:38:24,240 --> 01:38:27,320
Speaker 13: No, that is like quite literally, it's like evocative of

1928
01:38:27,400 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 13: like cyberpunk tropes that people I would assume would not

1929
01:38:30,760 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 13: want to use it due to fears of insensitivity, but

1930
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 13: it's just on your phone, like as like a real thing.

1931
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, I completely agree, and I love that comparison.

1932
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:43,160
Speaker 16: And I think, like I would imagine if I were

1933
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:45,600
Speaker 16: running a TikTok shop that using.

1934
01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:47,160
Speaker 11: The AI generated image of.

1935
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 16: An enslaved person, I would think like, oh, well, this

1936
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,120
Speaker 16: is certainly not something that I would use to like

1937
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 16: sell some cheap fan hat.

1938
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 7: But I mean, I think it is exactly what you're

1939
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:56,880
Speaker 7: saying that.

1940
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 16: I think that the extreme quality of these videos, people

1941
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 16: are just like, well, it'll get views and then I'll

1942
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:06,439
Speaker 16: get more eyeballs on my TikTok shop.

1943
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,040
Speaker 11: I don't think there's any kind of sure.

1944
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:11,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, no, it's a very gross way of doing like

1945
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 13: outrage farming. For engagement, I guess, like because surely they

1946
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:18,240
Speaker 13: know that these are not going to like go over

1947
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:20,720
Speaker 13: easy like. I think a part of part of this

1948
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:24,439
Speaker 13: is generating some degree of like attention based on it

1949
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:28,320
Speaker 13: being offensive or extremely gross and knowing that people will

1950
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:31,960
Speaker 13: like comment things of that nature exactly.

1951
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 16: And it's funny that you mentioned that, because the AI

1952
01:39:35,800 --> 01:39:38,160
Speaker 16: component of this is sort of what makes this novel

1953
01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:39,519
Speaker 16: and new. But that kind of thing has been all

1954
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 16: over social media for the longest time. Sure I remember

1955
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:47,000
Speaker 16: how big stuff like skit culture was on TikTok. And

1956
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:50,200
Speaker 16: I don't mean skits like Saturday Night Live or Portlandia.

1957
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:52,439
Speaker 16: I mean skits where they are trying to get you

1958
01:39:52,479 --> 01:39:55,200
Speaker 16: to think this is somebody's cell phone footage of something

1959
01:39:55,240 --> 01:39:57,360
Speaker 16: that happened, but really it's like, well that those are

1960
01:39:57,360 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 16: two actors. And there there was a type of these

1961
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:03,080
Speaker 16: skits that would really tick off on TikTok where it

1962
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:06,760
Speaker 16: was purporting to be oh, this is a parent who

1963
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 16: is going off on a trans teacher for trying to

1964
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,160
Speaker 16: indoctrinate their kid, and all the comments would be like

1965
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 16: good for them, good for that mom, and then the

1966
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:16,120
Speaker 16: screen flips and it's like, oh, well, the woman you

1967
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:18,759
Speaker 16: were just telling me is the trans teacher, Now she's

1968
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:19,760
Speaker 16: the mom.

1969
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:22,759
Speaker 7: Who was the next video? Yes, exactly, exactly.

1970
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 13: No, I like the ones that are set on airplanes

1971
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:27,680
Speaker 13: where they all use the same airplane set. Yes, and

1972
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:31,960
Speaker 13: they get into like fake fights on airplanes using the

1973
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,120
Speaker 13: same like five actors playing different roles.

1974
01:40:34,280 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, and then if you look carefully in the background,

1975
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:41,080
Speaker 16: you start thinking, well, airplanes don't have those strip led

1976
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 16: lights that you can buy on Amazon.

1977
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 7: Does not actually the.

1978
01:40:45,120 --> 01:40:47,799
Speaker 13: TikTok lights and the hallways like five feet wide.

1979
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 16: Yeah, exactly, And listen, I am not above getting taken

1980
01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:56,720
Speaker 16: in by those kinds of skits. And I guess I

1981
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,639
Speaker 16: don't love the idea that someone would be dedicating energy

1982
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:02,640
Speaker 16: and brain space to getting upset about a set of

1983
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:04,320
Speaker 16: circumstances that never really happened.

1984
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:06,960
Speaker 13: But it's the Internet. Come on, that's that's like, that's

1985
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:07,879
Speaker 13: half of the Internet.

1986
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:11,040
Speaker 7: Yes, Like, you know, I don't love it.

1987
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 16: But when the stakes so, like when the stakes are

1988
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:15,879
Speaker 16: low and it's just like a random fight on an airplane, fine,

1989
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:18,320
Speaker 16: when the stakes are higher and it's like, this is

1990
01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 16: a skit meant to like attack or demonize trans people,

1991
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:24,920
Speaker 16: queer people, black people, that's where I'm like, well, what

1992
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 16: are we really doing here?

1993
01:41:36,240 --> 01:41:38,160
Speaker 7: I think whether or not this.

1994
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 16: Kind of content, like when it's AI generated, we're looking

1995
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:44,400
Speaker 16: at things that never actually happened. Even though these these

1996
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 16: circumstances in these situations never really happened, they still very

1997
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:51,680
Speaker 16: much affirm the worldview of the people who are consuming it, right,

1998
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,799
Speaker 16: And so if you are consuming a skit in involving

1999
01:41:54,960 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 16: whether it's human actors or AI generated black people, if

2000
01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:03,679
Speaker 16: that skit reaffirms your worldview that these people cannot be trusted,

2001
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 16: these people are bad in some way, it kind of

2002
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:07,479
Speaker 16: doesn't matter if it's real.

2003
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:09,719
Speaker 13: Or not, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, yeah, totally.

2004
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:14,280
Speaker 13: That's like the concept of like hyperreality, where you're trying

2005
01:42:14,280 --> 01:42:17,559
Speaker 13: to like blend the Internet's exaggerated version of reality with

2006
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:21,720
Speaker 13: our physical, lived existence, and how these things start combining

2007
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:24,280
Speaker 13: into each other to create this idea of reality in

2008
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:26,040
Speaker 13: our heads that's more real than it actually is, to

2009
01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 13: the point where we take things on the screen to

2010
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:30,960
Speaker 13: be more accurately reflective of what's going on in the

2011
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 13: world than what we actually experience in our day to

2012
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:35,080
Speaker 13: day lives. And so much of that concept is what

2013
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:39,120
Speaker 13: drives like American like reactionary politics exactly.

2014
01:42:39,240 --> 01:42:42,680
Speaker 16: And when you actually go into the comments of these videos,

2015
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:46,640
Speaker 16: which in my opinion are very clearly AI generated.

2016
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 7: People are in the comments.

2017
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:52,599
Speaker 13: Well, I mean that easy for you to say. Someone

2018
01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:55,800
Speaker 13: who spends their time like researching what's going on and

2019
01:42:55,880 --> 01:42:58,280
Speaker 13: on the internet. I'm not sure if Mema and pop

2020
01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:01,040
Speaker 13: are finding these videos to be like, well, this one's

2021
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:02,560
Speaker 13: obviously AI generated.

2022
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:05,479
Speaker 16: No, And that's my point is like I don't even

2023
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 16: think they're thinking about it that way, and I don't

2024
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:09,559
Speaker 16: think they care that it's not real. In the comments

2025
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:12,599
Speaker 16: of these videos, it'll be a video, an AI generated

2026
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:16,280
Speaker 16: video of a black woman behaving in this very stereotypical

2027
01:43:16,360 --> 01:43:19,880
Speaker 16: racist way, and the comments will say they're all like that,

2028
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 16: and it kind of misses the point of like, well,

2029
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 16: there's there's no they in this video because it's AI generated.

2030
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 13: This is just a computer puppet. This isn't real.

2031
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:31,200
Speaker 16: Like, yeah, I completely agree, But I think when you

2032
01:43:31,360 --> 01:43:34,760
Speaker 16: see something online, whether it's obviously AI generated or not,

2033
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:38,200
Speaker 16: if it reaffirms your worldview, it kind of doesn't matter.

2034
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:40,880
Speaker 7: It's the same reason why when there's like.

2035
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:44,559
Speaker 16: Four legged veterans in AI slop holding a sign that

2036
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 16: says everyone forgot about me, wish me happy birthday.

2037
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:50,439
Speaker 13: Three billion likes on Facebook.

2038
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 16: I mean, what do you think is going on there?

2039
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:55,520
Speaker 16: I find that so fascinating.

2040
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:56,439
Speaker 3: Oh.

2041
01:43:56,520 --> 01:44:00,600
Speaker 13: I mean, I'm not a psychologist, but I don't know.

2042
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:03,759
Speaker 13: I think it isn't just the simple reaffirming of someone's

2043
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:06,519
Speaker 13: previously held view people are very receptive to. And we

2044
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 13: even see this with like you know, with like fake

2045
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:11,720
Speaker 13: news headlines, right, and people might point out that this

2046
01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:15,160
Speaker 13: story isn't isn't actually real. And when people are confronted

2047
01:44:15,320 --> 01:44:18,280
Speaker 13: with this idea of that they've been tricked by unreality,

2048
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:21,360
Speaker 13: they'll be like, no, maybe this one isn't real, but

2049
01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:23,800
Speaker 13: it could be real. And that's and that's what really

2050
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 13: matters is that this this feels true, not that it

2051
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 13: is true, but the fact that I feel it resonating

2052
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 13: is actually more important than any kind of physical trueness

2053
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:37,120
Speaker 13: out inside, like the flesh world like that. That that

2054
01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:40,080
Speaker 13: is honestly that that matters far less than how it

2055
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:43,240
Speaker 13: impacts how I feel and how how it reflects the

2056
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:44,120
Speaker 13: world as I see it.

2057
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 16: So I did an episode of my podcast or oar

2058
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,759
Speaker 16: Norgles on the Internet all about the sort of weird

2059
01:44:49,920 --> 01:44:55,800
Speaker 16: economy of AI generated disinformation, essentially fan fiction that came

2060
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:57,360
Speaker 16: out of the trial of Sean P.

2061
01:44:57,479 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 7: Didy co.

2062
01:44:58,160 --> 01:44:58,360
Speaker 5: Oh.

2063
01:44:58,479 --> 01:45:00,519
Speaker 7: That sounds incredibly upsetting.

2064
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:02,840
Speaker 16: It was so upsetting, And the reason I looked into

2065
01:45:02,920 --> 01:45:05,160
Speaker 16: it is because I have to be honest and say,

2066
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 16: one of these AI generated videos got me.

2067
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:08,240
Speaker 7: Right.

2068
01:45:08,280 --> 01:45:11,679
Speaker 16: It was a video that claimed that the late musician

2069
01:45:11,960 --> 01:45:15,559
Speaker 16: Prince was able to testify in Ditty's trial from the

2070
01:45:15,720 --> 01:45:18,360
Speaker 16: Beyond the Grave, and that they played a video that

2071
01:45:18,439 --> 01:45:21,960
Speaker 16: Prince made warning everybody that didty is this bad guy? Right?

2072
01:45:22,240 --> 01:45:24,439
Speaker 16: I am probably the world's biggest Prince fans. Well, I

2073
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:27,000
Speaker 16: was like Prince always like. It got me and it

2074
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,800
Speaker 16: totally affirmed what I want to be true.

2075
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 7: But it was all a lie.

2076
01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:34,040
Speaker 13: It's compelling, it's trying to like, it's trying to impact

2077
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:36,720
Speaker 13: you emotionally, especially for people who who like Prince, who

2078
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:40,599
Speaker 13: who miss miss Prince. This could be emotionally compelling, and like,

2079
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:43,599
Speaker 13: that's that's what they're like intentionally going after. I think

2080
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 13: that's that's why something like that could work so well.

2081
01:45:46,360 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 7: It got me.

2082
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:50,480
Speaker 16: And when I looked into kind of how these videos

2083
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:54,760
Speaker 16: are cranked out on YouTube, so basically any celebrity that

2084
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 16: you can imagine. There is an AI generated video on

2085
01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:00,800
Speaker 16: YouTube saying that they were some how involved in the

2086
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,679
Speaker 16: Didty trial. And what's so interesting is in the comments

2087
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:06,879
Speaker 16: of these videos that are again pretty obviously AI generated

2088
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:09,320
Speaker 16: or not real, and even the description of the YouTube

2089
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:11,799
Speaker 16: account will say this is just for entertainment.

2090
01:46:11,880 --> 01:46:13,720
Speaker 7: Nothing here is supposed to be true. People won't read

2091
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 7: that part.

2092
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:18,639
Speaker 16: Basically, if you've ever had a bad feeling about a celebrity,

2093
01:46:18,640 --> 01:46:21,600
Speaker 16: which who haven't totally see, there's a video that that

2094
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:23,720
Speaker 16: affirms with that worldview that is like, well, did you

2095
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:25,679
Speaker 16: know they were involved in the ditty frea comps?

2096
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:26,960
Speaker 7: And everybody's like, I knew it.

2097
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 13: That person always gave me the ac can Fine, I

2098
01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:32,080
Speaker 13: knew it. I was smart enough to pick it up.

2099
01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:35,240
Speaker 13: Not everyone else was smart enough, but I was. And

2100
01:46:35,320 --> 01:46:38,080
Speaker 13: that's that's a whole other emotional feeling that it's being

2101
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:41,519
Speaker 13: targeted by these like AI slop creators where they're trying

2102
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 13: to yeah, like affirm people's like like narcissism about their

2103
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,600
Speaker 13: ability to judge the moral character of strangers.

2104
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 16: That is so it because the people that celebrities they choose,

2105
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 16: it's people that maybe you would have like, I have

2106
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:56,839
Speaker 16: no real reason for this, but I hate Kevin Hart

2107
01:46:57,040 --> 01:46:59,519
Speaker 16: and so in the videos, don't even.

2108
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:00,960
Speaker 7: Ask me why. I don't even have a real reason.

2109
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 7: I just don't like him. Well, he is short.

2110
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:03,280
Speaker 2: He is short.

2111
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 13: There you go love to my short kings.

2112
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:07,280
Speaker 7: One of the reasons I don't like him.

2113
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:09,479
Speaker 16: This is just me speckel, Like, he just does a

2114
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:11,599
Speaker 16: lot of ads and you can't get on social media

2115
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:14,479
Speaker 16: without his cryptocurrency ad, his draft kings ad.

2116
01:47:14,479 --> 01:47:17,920
Speaker 7: I just like hate seeing it. Sure in the AI.

2117
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:20,000
Speaker 16: Generated video claiming that he was mixed up in the

2118
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:22,920
Speaker 16: Diddy Trials, every comment is like I knew it. I

2119
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:26,640
Speaker 16: always hated him, And that's affirming. People like feeling like

2120
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 16: they knew something that other people didn't see, and they

2121
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 16: knew it early on.

2122
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:32,559
Speaker 13: Well, And I think what's something that's similar to this

2123
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 13: that's happening right now is there's a massive media campaign

2124
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:40,240
Speaker 13: right now against Pedro Pascal with with AI generated videos

2125
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:43,559
Speaker 13: of him like touching his female co stars. And these

2126
01:47:43,720 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 13: these videos have been have been digitally altered, and it's

2127
01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:50,200
Speaker 13: in service of this this big harassment campaign against someone

2128
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:54,320
Speaker 13: who's like very vocally Protrance writes, there's other possible reasons

2129
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:58,120
Speaker 13: for why he's he's being targeted by these videos. But no, Similarly,

2130
01:47:58,160 --> 01:48:01,120
Speaker 13: it's trying to create this like ick around Petro Pascal

2131
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 13: using a altern media and it's gaining a lot of

2132
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:06,880
Speaker 13: traction right now, and it's something people need to be

2133
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:09,640
Speaker 13: like very very cautious of. But yeah, it's trying to

2134
01:48:09,640 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 13: affirm whatever. Maybe you, for some reason have never liked

2135
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:14,800
Speaker 13: Paedro Pascal. I can't imagine why. But if you find

2136
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 13: a video like this talking about how he's using a

2137
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 13: social anxiety diagnosis to inappropriately touch his co stars, do

2138
01:48:22,240 --> 01:48:23,080
Speaker 13: you like I knew it.

2139
01:48:23,200 --> 01:48:23,840
Speaker 7: I knew it.

2140
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:27,160
Speaker 13: I never trusted Pedro Pascal, and I don't like it.

2141
01:48:27,280 --> 01:48:29,360
Speaker 13: He's pro trans writes, and you're like, there you go.

2142
01:48:29,439 --> 01:48:32,040
Speaker 13: They've completely got you. They've been able to like automate

2143
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:36,599
Speaker 13: and monetize internet hate campaigns against people that you don't know.

2144
01:48:37,240 --> 01:48:41,000
Speaker 16: Garrett, Literally, right before you and I got on this episode,

2145
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:43,880
Speaker 16: I saw a video on Reddit and it's a scene

2146
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:46,240
Speaker 16: from an episode of Always Sunny where one of the

2147
01:48:46,320 --> 01:48:50,439
Speaker 16: guys is like essentially lifting d the female lead up

2148
01:48:50,479 --> 01:48:54,040
Speaker 16: by her crotch, and the caption was Pedro Pascal when

2149
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:56,479
Speaker 16: he feels anxiety. Next to me you got a co star,

2150
01:48:56,600 --> 01:48:58,639
Speaker 16: And I remember thinking, like, this is such a weird

2151
01:48:58,680 --> 01:48:59,320
Speaker 16: fucking video.

2152
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 7: But what order of the Internet have I wandered into?

2153
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:04,960
Speaker 7: But I didn't. I did not know that there are

2154
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:07,800
Speaker 7: horses trying to make me get the ick about Pedro.

2155
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 16: Pascal Coincidentally, he is someone who speaks up for LGBTQ rights,

2156
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:13,559
Speaker 16: you know, progressive causes.

2157
01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:17,000
Speaker 13: Of course, yeah, no, it's it's it's a it's a

2158
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:18,880
Speaker 13: it's a huge thing sweeping the internet right now.

2159
01:49:19,240 --> 01:49:22,680
Speaker 16: And I think it really goes to show how kind

2160
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:26,240
Speaker 16: of easily we can be manipulated using digital content, whether

2161
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:29,479
Speaker 16: it's AI generated or AI manipulated or not. Like our

2162
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:34,200
Speaker 16: understandings of the sort of general temperature of what's going

2163
01:49:34,240 --> 01:49:36,720
Speaker 16: on are so so much more tenuous than we think,

2164
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:39,120
Speaker 16: and so much more easily manipulated than we realize.

2165
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:42,439
Speaker 13: No, absolutely, no one is immune to propaganda. That is

2166
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:43,880
Speaker 13: a great way of putting it.

2167
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:58,400
Speaker 16: I'm happy that you used the word propaganda, because that's

2168
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 16: what I really do think the AI generated essentially menstrual

2169
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 16: show videos are. I think it's not a surprise that

2170
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,400
Speaker 16: we are seeing them the same way that back in

2171
01:50:10,439 --> 01:50:13,479
Speaker 16: the day menstrel shows were very popular at a time

2172
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 16: when there was an active campaign of attacking black folks

2173
01:50:17,400 --> 01:50:19,400
Speaker 16: and saying they weren't smart enough and did not deserve

2174
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:21,920
Speaker 16: full citizenship, did not deserve rights, all of that.

2175
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:24,639
Speaker 7: I think we're basically seeing the same thing today.

2176
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:27,439
Speaker 16: I think the rise of popularity of this kind of

2177
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:31,040
Speaker 16: content is against the backdrop of a very real attack

2178
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:34,600
Speaker 16: on marginalized people from this administration. You know, there was

2179
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:38,320
Speaker 16: just this very medipiece in Republica about how Trump and

2180
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:44,160
Speaker 16: Musk their goage stuff really was an attack on black women, specifically,

2181
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 16: like black women with stable federal jobs totally, and that

2182
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:49,600
Speaker 16: these attacks essentially it was like you were able to

2183
01:50:49,640 --> 01:50:53,240
Speaker 16: smear black women career civil servants as you know, they

2184
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:56,599
Speaker 16: were DEI hires, they were undeserving of these jobs, they

2185
01:50:56,640 --> 01:51:00,200
Speaker 16: really just deserve to be fired. And you know, really

2186
01:51:00,640 --> 01:51:04,080
Speaker 16: black women just became these easy targets for an administration

2187
01:51:04,280 --> 01:51:06,720
Speaker 16: hostile to marginal life people. So if we have all

2188
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 16: of that happening against the rise of this form of

2189
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:13,560
Speaker 16: digital media that is using AI to reaffirm these stereotypes

2190
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:16,200
Speaker 16: about black women, that we aren't able to behave ourselves

2191
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:18,639
Speaker 16: in polite society, cannot figure out a way to solve

2192
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:21,840
Speaker 16: conflicts without resorting to violence, are loud and obnoxious. Then

2193
01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:25,040
Speaker 16: when you hear about real life human black women getting

2194
01:51:25,080 --> 01:51:27,640
Speaker 16: pushed out of their employment or attacked by this administration,

2195
01:51:28,040 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 16: you might think, well, maybe it's for the best, because

2196
01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:32,800
Speaker 16: they're not suited for that work anyway. Because the kind

2197
01:51:32,840 --> 01:51:35,439
Speaker 16: of content that I have been consuming on TikTok and

2198
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:38,519
Speaker 16: I think it just reaffirms this world of view that

2199
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 16: real life human black folks are not self actualized human beings.

2200
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:46,440
Speaker 16: We're just a collection of tropes and stereotypes and caricatures.

2201
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:51,040
Speaker 13: I don't know what to say there, but I agree, yes.

2202
01:51:51,240 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 16: And I do think there's a kind of platform accountability

2203
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:56,719
Speaker 16: question and all this.

2204
01:51:56,720 --> 01:51:58,200
Speaker 13: Because oh, most certainly.

2205
01:51:58,360 --> 01:51:58,719
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2206
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,880
Speaker 16: Like, the reason why we're seeing the rise of these

2207
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 16: videos is because of the recent introduction of Google's vo

2208
01:52:05,120 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 16: three creator. It came out about a month ago and

2209
01:52:07,320 --> 01:52:11,280
Speaker 16: it's Google's latest AI video generation model, and essentially it's

2210
01:52:11,280 --> 01:52:14,839
Speaker 16: designed to create these realistic looking videos from text prompts.

2211
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:17,000
Speaker 16: And the thing that kind of makes it a step

2212
01:52:17,040 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 16: above is that you can incorporate things like synchronized audio, dialogue,

2213
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:25,120
Speaker 16: sound effect music. It is really taken off with creators

2214
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 16: online who are using this tool to create everything from

2215
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:32,000
Speaker 16: these AI skits to AI influencers to AI muckbangs you

2216
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:33,759
Speaker 16: know where people eat tons and tons of food.

2217
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:35,560
Speaker 11: Oh, this is so upsetting.

2218
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:36,960
Speaker 7: It is.

2219
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:40,080
Speaker 16: And then like another kind of offshoot of this is

2220
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:44,080
Speaker 16: you have people who use VO three to make content

2221
01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:46,599
Speaker 16: like this and they get tons of us and then

2222
01:52:46,640 --> 01:52:48,880
Speaker 16: they're like, oh, if you want to learn how to

2223
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:52,040
Speaker 16: make this yourself, pay me and I'll teach you how

2224
01:52:52,040 --> 01:52:52,639
Speaker 16: to do it too.

2225
01:52:52,680 --> 01:52:55,000
Speaker 7: So it's like there's always a weird.

2226
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:58,080
Speaker 13: Like MLM grift in there somewhere that is the content

2227
01:52:58,120 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 13: creator classic is like a mid tier influencer. We're not

2228
01:53:01,439 --> 01:53:03,719
Speaker 13: like that good at what they do, but is able

2229
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:07,320
Speaker 13: to supplement their income by offering courses to people to

2230
01:53:07,439 --> 01:53:11,680
Speaker 13: teach them how to make similarly some subpar content. And

2231
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,719
Speaker 13: it's interesting that we've reached the full AI automation aspect

2232
01:53:14,720 --> 01:53:16,240
Speaker 13: of this, right. This used to be a big thing

2233
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,240
Speaker 13: among like YouTubers. I was not aware that this is

2234
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:23,479
Speaker 13: now a thing among like AI TikTok influencers, but that

2235
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:25,919
Speaker 13: makes sense because this is like the easiest thing to automate,

2236
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:28,040
Speaker 13: So of course there's going to be like an influx

2237
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 13: of people trying to make a quick buck on racist

2238
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:32,599
Speaker 13: AI slop.

2239
01:53:33,160 --> 01:53:36,519
Speaker 16: It makes me so sad, And I do think I

2240
01:53:36,560 --> 01:53:41,400
Speaker 16: mean when I guess I would be curious how Google

2241
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:43,720
Speaker 16: feels about the fact that, like, this is what their

2242
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:45,400
Speaker 16: tool is being used for.

2243
01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:45,840
Speaker 9: Right.

2244
01:53:46,439 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 16: I wonder like if leaders have a sense that this

2245
01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:51,280
Speaker 16: is harmful, not just harmful to black women like me

2246
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:53,679
Speaker 16: who are depicted in this kind of content, but harmful

2247
01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,160
Speaker 16: for the Internet as a whole. It makes the Internet

2248
01:53:56,200 --> 01:54:00,040
Speaker 16: experience worse for everybody. And I guess, I guess I

2249
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 16: would imagine that like Google probably doesn't care that this

2250
01:54:03,479 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 16: is what their their technology is being used for. Like

2251
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:07,800
Speaker 16: if I had a direct line to some darpachi, the

2252
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:10,040
Speaker 16: head of Google, I would show him these clips and say, like,

2253
01:54:10,200 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 16: is this what you had in mind for VO three

2254
01:54:13,120 --> 01:54:14,840
Speaker 16: or is this a misuse of this tool that you

2255
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:16,719
Speaker 16: just put out and unleashed on all of us?

2256
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,839
Speaker 13: Yeah, And are you going to dedicate some like millions

2257
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 13: of dollars of research into stopping this from happening? No,

2258
01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:26,600
Speaker 13: of course not, Like they're not going to build comprehensive

2259
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:29,320
Speaker 13: tools that prevent platform abuse like this, Like that's not

2260
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:31,800
Speaker 13: going to happen as long as people are using it,

2261
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:34,200
Speaker 13: and then people are hearing about it and it's spreading,

2262
01:54:34,280 --> 01:54:36,480
Speaker 13: like that's that's what they want. If if there happens

2263
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:38,760
Speaker 13: to be offensive use cases of it, if anything, that's

2264
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:40,000
Speaker 13: good because that drives engagement.

2265
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:41,280
Speaker 7: It gets people to know about the product.

2266
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:43,760
Speaker 16: And I think that's another one of the reasons why

2267
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:48,160
Speaker 16: Trump's you know, executive orders on AI.

2268
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 13: That we saw early AIY.

2269
01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:52,280
Speaker 16: I mean, like, I will be the first person to

2270
01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:55,640
Speaker 16: admit that we have very deep problems when it comes

2271
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:59,280
Speaker 16: to AI. Anybody who listens to Better offline knows this,

2272
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:00,839
Speaker 16: Like the is not a secret.

2273
01:55:01,160 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 7: AI is often biased.

2274
01:55:02,480 --> 01:55:05,280
Speaker 16: AI is often wrong because it is trained on us

2275
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:07,680
Speaker 16: humans the bias little bucks that we are right, and

2276
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,640
Speaker 16: so that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. I also

2277
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:13,040
Speaker 16: will say, like, some of the solutions of how we

2278
01:55:13,120 --> 01:55:15,960
Speaker 16: fix that are complex and not super simple.

2279
01:55:16,120 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 7: But what Trump's executive order, he.

2280
01:55:18,040 --> 01:55:22,080
Speaker 16: Basically is signing an order saying all AI must be objective.

2281
01:55:22,120 --> 01:55:22,880
Speaker 7: It must it must.

2282
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:26,320
Speaker 16: Adhere to the objective truth of the United States. And

2283
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:27,440
Speaker 16: it's like, well, who determines that?

2284
01:55:27,680 --> 01:55:31,879
Speaker 13: Who who determines the objective truth of the United States?

2285
01:55:32,160 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 13: The President?

2286
01:55:33,320 --> 01:55:36,400
Speaker 16: I mean, if you ask Trump, yes, him and I

2287
01:55:36,400 --> 01:55:39,280
Speaker 16: guess that's the thing that pisses me off, is that

2288
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:43,720
Speaker 16: there actually are complex issues and problems when it comes

2289
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:47,600
Speaker 16: to AI, but this executive order just is like, Oh,

2290
01:55:47,680 --> 01:55:49,720
Speaker 16: the problem is is that it's woke. The solution is

2291
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:52,600
Speaker 16: me signing an executive order saying no woke in AI,

2292
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:56,080
Speaker 16: and rather than getting any kind of actual solution or

2293
01:55:56,120 --> 01:55:58,760
Speaker 16: having the conversation, we just get fucking nonsense.

2294
01:55:59,640 --> 01:55:59,680
Speaker 5: You.

2295
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:02,840
Speaker 13: No, it is worrying for multiple levels, including the fact

2296
01:56:02,920 --> 01:56:06,880
Speaker 13: that the president thinks he's the orbiter of objective truth

2297
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:09,600
Speaker 13: and it thinks he can legislate that or thinks he

2298
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:14,640
Speaker 13: can executive order that into being by either benefiting or

2299
01:56:14,680 --> 01:56:17,880
Speaker 13: punishing tech companies who follow his policies.

2300
01:56:18,160 --> 01:56:21,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean spoiler alert for that executive order. That's

2301
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:22,560
Speaker 7: exactly what he's saying.

2302
01:56:23,360 --> 01:56:27,320
Speaker 16: And you used the word propaganda earlier, and that really

2303
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:29,360
Speaker 16: is if there was like a thesis statement of what

2304
01:56:29,400 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 16: I wanted to say in this episode, is that that

2305
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 16: is exactly what I think is going on here. It

2306
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:36,520
Speaker 16: really does remind me of minstrel shows because even though

2307
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 16: minstrel shows back in the nineteenth century were this popular

2308
01:56:39,840 --> 01:56:44,040
Speaker 16: form of entertainment, it also was an entire manufacturing enterprise

2309
01:56:44,040 --> 01:56:48,080
Speaker 16: where people made very good money selling racist blackface figurines

2310
01:56:48,120 --> 01:56:50,920
Speaker 16: as novelties and all of that. David Pilgrim, the founder

2311
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:53,560
Speaker 16: of the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia at Farris

2312
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:56,160
Speaker 16: State University in Michigan, put it like this. They were

2313
01:56:56,200 --> 01:57:00,320
Speaker 16: everyday objects which portrayed black people as ugly different and

2314
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:03,200
Speaker 16: fun to laugh at. They were, in a word, propaganda,

2315
01:57:03,560 --> 01:57:05,760
Speaker 16: And I think that's exactly what's going on here.

2316
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:06,560
Speaker 9: Like people like.

2317
01:57:06,480 --> 01:57:08,760
Speaker 16: To think about racism as if it's just this thing

2318
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:10,960
Speaker 16: that hangs in the air, as opposed to a system

2319
01:57:11,160 --> 01:57:15,240
Speaker 16: that specific people are personally and intentionally perpetuating because they

2320
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:17,400
Speaker 16: are cashing in on it. I don't feel Google letting

2321
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 16: creators use their tools to create content like this is

2322
01:57:20,760 --> 01:57:23,560
Speaker 16: any different, Like no, yeah, it's that is exactly what's

2323
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:24,400
Speaker 16: going on in my book.

2324
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:27,440
Speaker 13: That's flatly like that's just like one to one, Like

2325
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:32,160
Speaker 13: you're using tech to create like unreal depictions of racist

2326
01:57:32,240 --> 01:57:37,440
Speaker 13: chricatures to please audiences, to reaffirm their own their own biases,

2327
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:40,560
Speaker 13: to reform their own racism, and you're monetizing it and

2328
01:57:40,560 --> 01:57:44,480
Speaker 13: you're automating it to create hashtag viral moments like it's

2329
01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 13: it's the most explicit and like gross, blatant form of

2330
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:51,400
Speaker 13: this that I've seen. Like I think Robert a few

2331
01:57:51,440 --> 01:57:54,080
Speaker 13: years ago reported on people using AI to like make

2332
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 13: like you like true crime videos of like like like

2333
01:57:56,720 --> 01:58:00,680
Speaker 13: animating like victims of crimes or like murder victims and

2334
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:03,080
Speaker 13: talking about how they were killed or something, which is

2335
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:07,520
Speaker 13: very gross and very very disgusting. But this sort of

2336
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:11,160
Speaker 13: like organized like like racist video propaganda stuff can lead

2337
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:14,440
Speaker 13: to a lot more like actual, like real world damage.

2338
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:17,520
Speaker 16: I completely agree. I mean those true crime videos, I

2339
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:21,360
Speaker 16: remember that. Imagine if your kid was murdered and then.

2340
01:58:21,320 --> 01:58:21,960
Speaker 7: No, it's so gross.

2341
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:23,840
Speaker 16: Twenty years later someone is like, oh, I've made an

2342
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:27,040
Speaker 16: AI depiction of your murdered child telling their story.

2343
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:30,800
Speaker 13: No, yeah, it's it's it's it's evil. But I think

2344
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:32,839
Speaker 13: the damage that can do is is kind of limited.

2345
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:37,240
Speaker 13: The damage that this whole altered reality where racism can

2346
01:58:37,280 --> 01:58:40,400
Speaker 13: get affirmed leads to I think a lot more actual,

2347
01:58:40,440 --> 01:58:42,360
Speaker 13: like political and personal consequences.

2348
01:58:42,600 --> 01:58:46,080
Speaker 16: Completely agree, And I also think just taking a step

2349
01:58:46,120 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 16: back in the conversation about AI, we're all being told

2350
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:52,360
Speaker 16: how the proliferation of AI is going to be the

2351
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 16: lynchpin of our economy.

2352
01:58:53,640 --> 01:58:55,880
Speaker 7: It's so important, it's going to change everything. And then

2353
01:58:55,920 --> 01:58:56,760
Speaker 7: you actually.

2354
01:58:56,520 --> 01:58:58,080
Speaker 16: Look at some of these use cases that are taking

2355
01:58:58,120 --> 01:58:59,600
Speaker 16: off and it's like, well, was this really worth all

2356
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:03,800
Speaker 16: the fucking climate degradation to make this racist AI version

2357
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:05,480
Speaker 16: of a Bigfoot that.

2358
01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:06,360
Speaker 7: Looks like a black woman.

2359
01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:09,600
Speaker 13: No more rainforest, but at least we get racist Bigfoot.

2360
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:11,920
Speaker 11: So, oh my god.

2361
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:13,880
Speaker 16: It Well, Garrett, I think that's a good place to end.

2362
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:16,320
Speaker 16: Thank you so much for letting me rant at you

2363
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:18,040
Speaker 16: about this. I really appreciate it.

2364
01:59:18,520 --> 01:59:20,880
Speaker 7: Where else can people find your work? Bridget Well?

2365
01:59:20,880 --> 01:59:23,040
Speaker 16: You can listen to my podcast There Are No Girls

2366
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:25,040
Speaker 16: on the Internet. You can listen to my other podcasts

2367
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 16: with Mozilla Foundation about ethics in AI called IRL, and.

2368
01:59:28,240 --> 01:59:30,480
Speaker 7: You can find me on Instagram at Bridge at Marine.

2369
01:59:30,360 --> 01:59:33,600
Speaker 13: DC fantastic, Oh the Internet.

2370
01:59:54,320 --> 01:59:57,840
Speaker 17: Hi everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here, a

2371
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:01,320
Speaker 17: very special edition of a Could Happen Here, in which

2372
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:04,680
Speaker 17: we are very lucky to be joined by Inland from

2373
02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,040
Speaker 17: Live that the World is Dying and what will be

2374
02:00:07,040 --> 02:00:12,000
Speaker 17: the first of many crossover episodes where the folks from

2375
02:00:12,240 --> 02:00:14,680
Speaker 17: Strange Hit Tangled Woodenness are going to share with us

2376
02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:17,839
Speaker 17: some of their preparedness Advice.

2377
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:20,160
Speaker 7: Welcome to the show. Would you like to introduce yourself?

2378
02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, James, I'm in

2379
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:28,120
Speaker 1: man Marowin and I use say them pronouns. And I'm

2380
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:30,400
Speaker 1: one of the hosts of Love Like the World Is Dying,

2381
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:33,240
Speaker 1: your podcast for What Feels Like the End Times, which

2382
02:00:33,320 --> 02:00:38,600
Speaker 1: is a lefty prepper podcast about community and individual preparedness

2383
02:00:38,640 --> 02:00:43,200
Speaker 1: for disasters of all kinds. And really excited to be

2384
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:46,760
Speaker 1: on the show with you. Yeah, on a different show,

2385
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:49,280
Speaker 1: because you're on that show with me sometimes, which is great.

2386
02:00:49,400 --> 02:00:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2387
02:00:50,480 --> 02:00:55,200
Speaker 17: Yeah, I'm bringing together the two like I'm sure there's

2388
02:00:55,200 --> 02:00:57,480
Speaker 17: a superhero reference I could make here, but I don't

2389
02:00:57,480 --> 02:01:01,040
Speaker 17: really understand that world, so I don't either.

2390
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:02,080
Speaker 5: No.

2391
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 17: Great, Okay, two people talking about a thing they don't understand.

2392
02:01:05,480 --> 02:01:09,560
Speaker 17: That is what pubcasts saw sometimes, but not today.

2393
02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 7: What are we going to talk about today?

2394
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:15,520
Speaker 1: Well, what I'm really excited to talk about today is

2395
02:01:16,200 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 1: preparedness in general, how community preparedness differs from some more

2396
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:24,760
Speaker 1: conventional modalities and being really nice with that phrase.

2397
02:01:25,640 --> 02:01:27,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's one way of saying it.

2398
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:32,840
Speaker 1: How individual preparedness fits into community preparedness, and kind of

2399
02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:38,120
Speaker 1: about my own journey into prepper stuff or preparedness, which

2400
02:01:38,160 --> 02:01:39,800
Speaker 1: might be a new term for some people.

2401
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:40,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2402
02:01:40,520 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 1: I like to call it preparedness over like prepping as

2403
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:47,240
Speaker 1: a term sort of because like, I don't know, Like,

2404
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:49,720
Speaker 1: if I say I'm into prepping, then people start to

2405
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:52,000
Speaker 1: give me funny looks and think, I want to live

2406
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:55,240
Speaker 1: in a bunker with a thousand cans of beans and

2407
02:01:55,400 --> 02:01:57,440
Speaker 1: more guns than I know what to do with. Yeah,

2408
02:01:57,600 --> 02:02:01,000
Speaker 1: But if I say I'm into preparedness, people are like, oh,

2409
02:02:01,360 --> 02:02:03,400
Speaker 1: I know who to call if I need help with

2410
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:08,080
Speaker 1: something or get in a jam, you know. Yeah, Yeah,

2411
02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:11,240
Speaker 1: And it's kind of exactly that sentiment that I want

2412
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:14,320
Speaker 1: listeners to think of when they think of preparedness is

2413
02:02:14,960 --> 02:02:18,680
Speaker 1: what connections and resources we have for when things go wrong,

2414
02:02:19,560 --> 02:02:22,720
Speaker 1: and how we are going to respond to disasters of

2415
02:02:22,760 --> 02:02:26,280
Speaker 1: all kinds when we're faced with them, because having a

2416
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:29,800
Speaker 1: plan kind of makes things less scary, you know.

2417
02:02:30,480 --> 02:02:36,560
Speaker 17: Yeah, Definitely, I feel safe for approaching bad things because

2418
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:39,080
Speaker 17: I've approached bad things with my friends and we have

2419
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:40,760
Speaker 17: gone through them and we've.

2420
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:41,760
Speaker 7: Helped other people get through them.

2421
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:42,520
Speaker 11: Yeah.

2422
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:46,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also think a lot of people engage in

2423
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:50,480
Speaker 1: preparedness without really realizing this. I feel like i'd ask

2424
02:02:50,600 --> 02:02:53,200
Speaker 1: these questions to you on a less rhetorical basis if

2425
02:02:53,240 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know them to be true. But for instance, listener,

2426
02:02:57,960 --> 02:03:01,480
Speaker 1: do you keep tools and your car in case you

2427
02:03:01,520 --> 02:03:04,760
Speaker 1: break down on the side of the road or if

2428
02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:06,720
Speaker 1: your car won't start? Do you have a friend that

2429
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 1: will take a look at it for you and help

2430
02:03:08,680 --> 02:03:13,240
Speaker 1: you fix it. If so, then congratulations, you're into preparedness

2431
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:17,480
Speaker 1: for a very specific kind of disaster. And now we

2432
02:03:17,600 --> 02:03:19,600
Speaker 1: just have to figure out how to apply that to

2433
02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:24,360
Speaker 1: other disasters, whether it's your car breaking down, the climate

2434
02:03:24,400 --> 02:03:27,040
Speaker 1: breaking down, or the world as we know it breaking down,

2435
02:03:27,720 --> 02:03:31,440
Speaker 1: because unfortunately, with the world as it is right now,

2436
02:03:31,840 --> 02:03:36,839
Speaker 1: as Margaret has said before, we're all preppers now. Yeah,

2437
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's something that makes thinking about disaster

2438
02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:44,760
Speaker 1: just less scary. And I think that's ultimately kind of

2439
02:03:44,760 --> 02:03:48,680
Speaker 1: one of the best reasons of like why we should

2440
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:53,120
Speaker 1: get into preparedness is because it makes things less scary.

2441
02:03:54,000 --> 02:03:57,360
Speaker 17: Yeah, definitely, And I think it gives you if you're

2442
02:03:57,360 --> 02:03:59,080
Speaker 17: doing it right, And I think this is something we

2443
02:03:59,080 --> 02:04:02,240
Speaker 17: can get into. You realize how much your community can

2444
02:04:02,240 --> 02:04:04,760
Speaker 17: get through if you will have each other rather than

2445
02:04:05,360 --> 02:04:08,520
Speaker 17: necessarily the alternative that the other modality that you talked

2446
02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:11,680
Speaker 17: about is theoretically thinking how much you could get through

2447
02:04:11,720 --> 02:04:12,960
Speaker 17: whilst never helping anyone.

2448
02:04:13,080 --> 02:04:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's very different things. Yeah, yeah, totally, And

2449
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,280
Speaker 1: I don't know listeners. We're talking about kind of more

2450
02:04:20,440 --> 02:04:26,000
Speaker 1: traditional like bunker mentality prepping, which we'll get into yeah, yeah,

2451
02:04:26,080 --> 02:04:28,400
Speaker 1: a little bit later, but that is my euphemism so

2452
02:04:28,520 --> 02:04:30,840
Speaker 1: far as more conventional modality.

2453
02:04:31,400 --> 02:04:33,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, certainly.

2454
02:04:33,960 --> 02:04:36,240
Speaker 17: Can you give some ideas of like why people might

2455
02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:38,680
Speaker 17: want to get into preparedness, what they might want to

2456
02:04:38,680 --> 02:04:39,640
Speaker 17: be prepared for?

2457
02:04:40,680 --> 02:04:45,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, so many things. The list is kind of endless,

2458
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:49,400
Speaker 1: which is yeah, which is unfortunate, and I don't want

2459
02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:53,200
Speaker 1: to overwhelm overwhelm people, but there's just a lot of things,

2460
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:57,400
Speaker 1: and new things are emerging every day. But the first

2461
02:04:57,440 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: step of preparedness is kind of identify ying what your

2462
02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:05,160
Speaker 1: threat model is, or really just asking yourself, you know,

2463
02:05:05,240 --> 02:05:10,240
Speaker 1: like what are you personally worried about for yourself or

2464
02:05:10,280 --> 02:05:14,680
Speaker 1: for your community and some kind of like larger categories

2465
02:05:14,680 --> 02:05:18,000
Speaker 1: that we can lump that stuff into. Is I feel

2466
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 1: like what comes to mind for people immediately probably is

2467
02:05:20,880 --> 02:05:25,040
Speaker 1: natural disasters. They're ever more frequent, they're growing in intensity

2468
02:05:25,200 --> 02:05:29,280
Speaker 1: and happening in more places. People who never thought they

2469
02:05:29,280 --> 02:05:34,040
Speaker 1: would become climate refugees are now becoming climate refugees. I

2470
02:05:34,160 --> 02:05:36,120
Speaker 1: still live on a chunk of land, and like we

2471
02:05:36,160 --> 02:05:38,800
Speaker 1: got flooded out. We lived in a hundred year floodplain,

2472
02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:42,000
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, I know it's not once every hundred years,

2473
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:44,640
Speaker 1: that's not how it works, but like our time.

2474
02:05:44,440 --> 02:05:48,600
Speaker 13: Came and we got flooded out. Yeah, there's migration.

2475
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:54,400
Speaker 1: This could be due to climate change, political upheaval, economic reasons,

2476
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:58,760
Speaker 1: family bigotry. Yeah, and obvious tie into this right now

2477
02:05:58,840 --> 02:06:01,760
Speaker 1: is everything going on with ice raids where a lot

2478
02:06:01,840 --> 02:06:05,760
Speaker 1: of people are being displaced and either trying to return

2479
02:06:05,840 --> 02:06:09,480
Speaker 1: to their homes or find new ones. And there's also,

2480
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:11,200
Speaker 1: like I don't know, there's like a lot of people,

2481
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 1: like in more conservative states in the US who for instance,

2482
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:20,040
Speaker 1: are trans or have trans people that are in their

2483
02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:23,440
Speaker 1: family or in their close friend group and are deciding

2484
02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:27,080
Speaker 1: whether they need to move somewhere else or at least

2485
02:06:27,080 --> 02:06:30,320
Speaker 1: come up with an escape plan if things get worse

2486
02:06:30,360 --> 02:06:33,240
Speaker 1: where they are. Yeah, And the same is true for like,

2487
02:06:33,400 --> 02:06:37,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, maintaining access to abortion. Everything is very

2488
02:06:37,680 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 1: different in very different places or very close spaces. Even

2489
02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:43,920
Speaker 1: in the United States, And so I think a lot

2490
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,760
Speaker 1: of people who never thought they'd need to think about

2491
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:49,000
Speaker 1: migration are now thinking about it.

2492
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:50,160
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2493
02:06:50,320 --> 02:06:52,800
Speaker 17: A big problem with how migration is reported on in

2494
02:06:52,840 --> 02:06:55,480
Speaker 17: America is that like people who migrants have seen as

2495
02:06:55,560 --> 02:06:59,280
Speaker 17: like some kind of subcategory of humans, you know, totally. Yeah,

2496
02:06:59,520 --> 02:07:02,360
Speaker 17: if you were a person who can get pregnant, and

2497
02:07:02,440 --> 02:07:08,959
Speaker 17: you're a person who might consider, in whatever circumstances, accessing abortion,

2498
02:07:09,880 --> 02:07:12,960
Speaker 17: then in some states you need to be prepared to

2499
02:07:13,280 --> 02:07:17,920
Speaker 17: become a migrant, like a yeah, relatively very short notice. Right,

2500
02:07:19,120 --> 02:07:21,600
Speaker 17: It's something that we're all closer to you than we think.

2501
02:07:22,160 --> 02:07:22,520
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2502
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:29,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Another big one is kind of like larger economic, social,

2503
02:07:29,160 --> 02:07:33,480
Speaker 1: or political collapse, you know, simply meaning that like the

2504
02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:36,520
Speaker 1: structures of the world no longer mean what they used

2505
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:40,160
Speaker 1: to mean. This could mean the collapse of capitalism or

2506
02:07:40,640 --> 02:07:45,280
Speaker 1: capitalism turning more into like literal corporate feudalism. Another big

2507
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:48,040
Speaker 1: one is, I'm just have this broad category of war.

2508
02:07:48,560 --> 02:07:51,480
Speaker 1: This could be an invasion, a civil war, a revolution,

2509
02:07:52,360 --> 02:07:56,160
Speaker 1: a rise in right wing militias, another rise in right

2510
02:07:56,160 --> 02:08:00,400
Speaker 1: wing militias, whatever. I'm kind of neglecting. Some more fantastastical

2511
02:08:00,440 --> 02:08:03,360
Speaker 1: apocalypses that I'm sure we can all imagine, but there

2512
02:08:03,400 --> 02:08:06,760
Speaker 1: are those we might wake up as fungus, you know

2513
02:08:06,800 --> 02:08:12,800
Speaker 1: who can say. And then lastly, there's the current disaster

2514
02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:16,120
Speaker 1: that is late stage capitalism. And this one is the

2515
02:08:16,120 --> 02:08:18,360
Speaker 1: one that I spend the most time thinking about because

2516
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:20,919
Speaker 1: it's the one that's ever present in our lives currently

2517
02:08:21,440 --> 02:08:24,600
Speaker 1: and kind of informs and maybe creates a lot of

2518
02:08:24,600 --> 02:08:28,839
Speaker 1: the other larger threats I just mentioned, Yeah, except becoming fungus.

2519
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:32,600
Speaker 17: Well yet yeah, maybe, Yeah, we're doing a lot with

2520
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:36,760
Speaker 17: the the old whatever. Rfk's in charge of Ministry of Health.

2521
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:40,480
Speaker 17: It's not called that health and Human Services. Yeah, I

2522
02:08:40,520 --> 02:08:42,000
Speaker 17: think this is the one that, like, this is a

2523
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:45,360
Speaker 17: disaster that people don't often like see because it's slow.

2524
02:08:45,480 --> 02:08:46,080
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2525
02:08:46,200 --> 02:08:49,200
Speaker 1: It kills us slowly rather than quick and it kills

2526
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:49,720
Speaker 1: us quickly.

2527
02:08:49,920 --> 02:08:55,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, talking of killing us slowly in it, my obligation

2528
02:08:55,400 --> 02:08:58,840
Speaker 17: to pivot to adverts is slowly killing my soul that

2529
02:08:59,160 --> 02:09:01,000
Speaker 17: I have to do any Yeah.

2530
02:09:01,400 --> 02:09:02,160
Speaker 11: This is new for me.

2531
02:09:02,200 --> 02:09:03,720
Speaker 1: We don't have these on a little like the world

2532
02:09:03,840 --> 02:09:04,240
Speaker 1: is dying.

2533
02:09:04,800 --> 02:09:06,840
Speaker 17: Yeah, I know, I thought i'd take the first time.

2534
02:09:06,840 --> 02:09:07,919
Speaker 17: I'm going to leave the second.

2535
02:09:07,720 --> 02:09:09,520
Speaker 1: One up to you.

2536
02:09:09,520 --> 02:09:23,880
Speaker 17: You can have a swing at it. All right, thank

2537
02:09:23,920 --> 02:09:27,720
Speaker 17: you Products and Services for supporting this show.

2538
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:29,440
Speaker 7: We are back.

2539
02:09:30,560 --> 02:09:32,760
Speaker 17: I mean, let's break it down for people in like

2540
02:09:32,800 --> 02:09:36,840
Speaker 17: a very basic sense. So that's okay, how do we

2541
02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:40,200
Speaker 17: start being more prepared? Like I imagine the first step

2542
02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:43,800
Speaker 17: would be to immediately go to a federal firearms license.

2543
02:09:43,840 --> 02:09:45,040
Speaker 7: Se is that right?

2544
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:47,240
Speaker 3: Yes?

2545
02:09:47,440 --> 02:09:50,280
Speaker 1: That is that is the first step. It is to

2546
02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:54,320
Speaker 1: fill your bunker with guns. No, that's that's not the

2547
02:09:54,320 --> 02:09:57,880
Speaker 1: first time because you can eat them. Yes, and now

2548
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:02,160
Speaker 1: jokes aside. So the first step we just talked about

2549
02:10:02,200 --> 02:10:05,520
Speaker 1: it before that break is determine your threat. You know,

2550
02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:09,520
Speaker 1: in the case of let's use earthquakes as an example,

2551
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: if you live somewhere with earthquakes, then your threat model

2552
02:10:12,560 --> 02:10:16,720
Speaker 1: should probably include earthquakes. You might prepare for earthquakes more

2553
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:20,200
Speaker 1: than you might prepare for wildfires too. The second step

2554
02:10:20,280 --> 02:10:23,320
Speaker 1: is make a plan, which means, like, when there's an earthquake,

2555
02:10:23,360 --> 02:10:25,480
Speaker 1: you're going to do X and Y and meet so

2556
02:10:25,520 --> 02:10:29,720
Speaker 1: and so at blank. You can also include not living

2557
02:10:29,720 --> 02:10:32,680
Speaker 1: somewhere with earthquakes anymore as part of your make a plan,

2558
02:10:32,960 --> 02:10:35,760
Speaker 1: because maybe that's just the one thing you don't want

2559
02:10:35,800 --> 02:10:39,080
Speaker 1: to deal with. The next part is acquire the parts

2560
02:10:39,080 --> 02:10:42,800
Speaker 1: of the plan, and so like, if your plan includes resources,

2561
02:10:42,880 --> 02:10:47,200
Speaker 1: which everyone's plan should include a go bag, an escape route,

2562
02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:50,080
Speaker 1: and any kind of equipment that you need. And at

2563
02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:53,839
Speaker 1: this point you're mostly ready, I maybe would add to

2564
02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:59,080
Speaker 1: collaborate with others, and then this step gets missed a lot.

2565
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:02,800
Speaker 1: But at this point, since you're mostly ready, hopefully you

2566
02:11:02,840 --> 02:11:06,120
Speaker 1: can let go of some anxiety and despair. You've done

2567
02:11:06,160 --> 02:11:11,080
Speaker 1: the hardest part, which is to get started, and hopefully

2568
02:11:11,120 --> 02:11:13,360
Speaker 1: you can. We can feel comfort in that if we

2569
02:11:13,400 --> 02:11:16,480
Speaker 1: can't forestall a disaster, that we can at least be

2570
02:11:16,520 --> 02:11:20,160
Speaker 1: ready for it, and then act on the plan, do

2571
02:11:20,320 --> 02:11:24,600
Speaker 1: the thing, and assess what you can do better next time. Yeah,

2572
02:11:24,880 --> 02:11:28,240
Speaker 1: those are my basic steps. Yeah, it is makes it

2573
02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:29,160
Speaker 1: seem also simple.

2574
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:30,720
Speaker 11: It's so simple.

2575
02:11:31,600 --> 02:11:34,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, obviously we will spend a lot of time in

2576
02:11:34,560 --> 02:11:36,680
Speaker 17: the next few months breaking down each of those steps

2577
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:38,040
Speaker 17: and explaining them for people.

2578
02:11:38,440 --> 02:11:38,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2579
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:42,040
Speaker 17: But yeah, like, I live in a place where wildfires

2580
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:44,080
Speaker 17: are common. In my time living in California, I've been

2581
02:11:44,080 --> 02:11:47,120
Speaker 17: evacuated for a couple of fires. I've had an earthquake,

2582
02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:50,760
Speaker 17: you know, I've had a fewer than natural disasters. Of course,

2583
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:53,480
Speaker 17: earthquake channels have become fires. It did in San Francisco.

2584
02:11:53,600 --> 02:11:56,280
Speaker 17: But yeah, it would not make sense if you live

2585
02:11:56,400 --> 02:11:57,600
Speaker 17: where I live to.

2586
02:11:57,720 --> 02:12:02,600
Speaker 1: Not have a plan. Yeah for that being naive. Yeah,

2587
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:03,240
Speaker 1: it's like.

2588
02:12:03,240 --> 02:12:04,800
Speaker 17: A story like that for you, Like is there a

2589
02:12:04,840 --> 02:12:08,520
Speaker 17: thing did you, like, you know, have to evacuate for

2590
02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:11,600
Speaker 17: a wildfire and you couldn't find your shoes?

2591
02:12:11,720 --> 02:12:12,080
Speaker 7: Like what?

2592
02:12:12,680 --> 02:12:14,800
Speaker 1: So one of my funny things was living on this

2593
02:12:14,920 --> 02:12:18,480
Speaker 1: land project and like we were we were experiencing a flood.

2594
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:21,240
Speaker 1: We were experiencing what could have very easily been a

2595
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:25,520
Speaker 1: flash flood, and I was trying to just convince people

2596
02:12:25,560 --> 02:12:29,680
Speaker 1: to leave, and I had a hard time convincing people

2597
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:32,320
Speaker 1: to leave. Yeah, like there was like water up to

2598
02:12:32,360 --> 02:12:36,240
Speaker 1: our chests. And this is my answer now. But my

2599
02:12:36,520 --> 02:12:41,040
Speaker 1: answer that I wrote about for this episode is so

2600
02:12:42,040 --> 02:12:44,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of preliad. In the first episode of

2601
02:12:44,080 --> 02:12:46,760
Speaker 1: Live Like the World Is Dying, Margaret talks with Kitty

2602
02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:51,600
Speaker 1: Striker about anarchist prepping, and Margaret talks about the possibilities

2603
02:12:51,600 --> 02:12:54,880
Speaker 1: that she's preparing for, which she identifies as kind of

2604
02:12:55,080 --> 02:12:58,480
Speaker 1: these four possibilities, living like the world is going to end,

2605
02:12:58,600 --> 02:13:01,040
Speaker 1: and that we might not survive. Living like the world

2606
02:13:01,160 --> 02:13:03,440
Speaker 1: is going to end, and we can try to survive,

2607
02:13:04,040 --> 02:13:06,520
Speaker 1: living like we can prevent the end of the world,

2608
02:13:06,640 --> 02:13:10,520
Speaker 1: and then maybe trying to live like the world isn't

2609
02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:16,600
Speaker 1: going to end after all. And I got into preparedness

2610
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:19,760
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons, some of which evolved over time.

2611
02:13:20,080 --> 02:13:22,640
Speaker 1: It went from something that felt scary to something that

2612
02:13:22,640 --> 02:13:26,480
Speaker 1: feels comforting, and I hope that it can become comforting

2613
02:13:26,480 --> 02:13:28,440
Speaker 1: for other people. I hope that's where a lot of

2614
02:13:28,440 --> 02:13:30,840
Speaker 1: you can land who are listening, who are either new

2615
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:33,160
Speaker 1: to the concept or think that prepping is only for

2616
02:13:33,200 --> 02:13:36,480
Speaker 1: people who expect to need to survive for thirty years

2617
02:13:36,520 --> 02:13:41,480
Speaker 1: in a bunker after a nuclear, zombie, bio apokarev or whatever,

2618
02:13:41,720 --> 02:13:45,360
Speaker 1: eating canned beans. I'm really harping on this image because

2619
02:13:45,400 --> 02:13:47,200
Speaker 1: I think it's what a lot of people think of

2620
02:13:47,240 --> 02:13:50,240
Speaker 1: when they think of prepping. You know, beans, bunker, a

2621
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:55,320
Speaker 1: little battie and the fourth maybe lesser known one billionaires

2622
02:13:55,440 --> 02:13:58,560
Speaker 1: or the four bees of the apocalypse, as I want

2623
02:13:58,560 --> 02:14:02,160
Speaker 1: to think about them. To kind of confront this as

2624
02:14:02,240 --> 02:14:06,000
Speaker 1: like a word, this like apocalypse. There's a lot of

2625
02:14:06,040 --> 02:14:09,200
Speaker 1: different kinds of apocalypses, and whether we like it or not,

2626
02:14:09,400 --> 02:14:13,000
Speaker 1: if it isn't already here. It's coming, and for some

2627
02:14:13,040 --> 02:14:16,800
Speaker 1: people it's coming swiftly, for others it's slowly, but it

2628
02:14:16,840 --> 02:14:20,600
Speaker 1: is coming, and billionaires are preparing for it. Even if

2629
02:14:20,640 --> 02:14:22,920
Speaker 1: they want us to think their tech will save the world.

2630
02:14:23,240 --> 02:14:25,760
Speaker 1: They have all the money and resources, and they are

2631
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:29,320
Speaker 1: still worried. And while they'll try to use their money

2632
02:14:29,320 --> 02:14:32,440
Speaker 1: in power to kind of escape the consequences becoming a

2633
02:14:32,480 --> 02:14:35,480
Speaker 1: billionaire has had on the world. Most people probably don't

2634
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:38,840
Speaker 1: have access to those kinds of resources. But what we

2635
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:41,480
Speaker 1: all do have access to our social and community ties,

2636
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:44,920
Speaker 1: even if it might not seem like that now. And oddly,

2637
02:14:44,960 --> 02:14:48,120
Speaker 1: these social ties are things that billionaires often lack, or

2638
02:14:48,320 --> 02:14:52,640
Speaker 1: doubt the authenticity of, or just can't comprehend. There's this

2639
02:14:52,800 --> 02:14:57,040
Speaker 1: article by Douglas Ruscoff. This tech consultant who gets flown

2640
02:14:57,080 --> 02:14:59,640
Speaker 1: out to the desert to talk to rich people about collapse,

2641
02:15:00,600 --> 02:15:03,600
Speaker 1: surprised because they don't really ask him about tech stuff.

2642
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:07,040
Speaker 1: They ask him about like maintaining social control over the

2643
02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:10,240
Speaker 1: people that work for them when money no longer means anything.

2644
02:15:10,760 --> 02:15:13,400
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't know, do maybe make like

2645
02:15:13,520 --> 02:15:14,840
Speaker 1: more authentic friendships?

2646
02:15:14,960 --> 02:15:15,160
Speaker 2: You know?

2647
02:15:15,760 --> 02:15:19,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe don't rely on having people so

2648
02:15:19,320 --> 02:15:22,920
Speaker 17: subservient to you. Yeah, but I think this kind of

2649
02:15:23,080 --> 02:15:26,080
Speaker 17: air quotes conundrum speaks a lot to people's fears about

2650
02:15:26,080 --> 02:15:30,520
Speaker 17: collapse and is what gets people into a bunker mentality.

2651
02:15:30,840 --> 02:15:33,680
Speaker 17: You know, everyone's worried about roving bands of armed people

2652
02:15:33,800 --> 02:15:37,840
Speaker 17: taking what they've prepared for their own survival, and I

2653
02:15:37,920 --> 02:15:40,800
Speaker 17: think that is a fantasy that we don't really see

2654
02:15:40,840 --> 02:15:44,800
Speaker 17: happen in real life as often as we might think. Yeah,

2655
02:15:45,400 --> 02:15:49,840
Speaker 17: I've reported from plenty of natural and human creative disasters.

2656
02:15:50,240 --> 02:15:54,640
Speaker 17: Actually it is the opposite of that. Like, we can

2657
02:15:54,680 --> 02:15:57,320
Speaker 17: talk about this another time, but it's one of the

2658
02:15:57,360 --> 02:16:00,640
Speaker 17: reasons I can keep doing it. Like, despite being huge mutumatic,

2659
02:16:00,840 --> 02:16:04,800
Speaker 17: is it's touchingly incredible how much people will go out

2660
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:07,200
Speaker 17: of their way when they're thoroughly miserable to help other

2661
02:16:07,240 --> 02:16:09,000
Speaker 17: people who they see is needing help.

2662
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:10,240
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2663
02:16:10,480 --> 02:16:13,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing.

2664
02:16:14,080 --> 02:16:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2665
02:16:14,480 --> 02:16:17,160
Speaker 1: To be a little bit of a word nerd real quick.

2666
02:16:17,360 --> 02:16:19,960
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone who talks about prepping has talked

2667
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:23,160
Speaker 1: about the etymological origins of the word apocalypse. But it

2668
02:16:23,240 --> 02:16:26,520
Speaker 1: is very interesting and I think it's relevant, which is like, Okay,

2669
02:16:26,600 --> 02:16:30,080
Speaker 1: it's from these two Greek words apo, and collectine, which

2670
02:16:30,120 --> 02:16:33,400
Speaker 1: means like often to conceal and so like a more

2671
02:16:33,440 --> 02:16:37,400
Speaker 1: literal translation of it is a revealing And I think

2672
02:16:37,520 --> 02:16:42,480
Speaker 1: that disaster really reveals things. It reveals the ways that

2673
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:47,440
Speaker 1: society has really like bailed. It reveals the consequences of

2674
02:16:47,959 --> 02:16:51,879
Speaker 1: what living in a corporate oligarchy looks like. And it

2675
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:57,800
Speaker 1: also reveals like what beautiful and powerful things people have

2676
02:16:58,040 --> 02:17:02,200
Speaker 1: built as communities and prepare it for to give like

2677
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:05,600
Speaker 1: a little bit of a positive spin on a grim,

2678
02:17:05,760 --> 02:17:06,800
Speaker 1: grim grim word.

2679
02:17:07,520 --> 02:17:10,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, No, Like when I think about that, I think

2680
02:17:10,400 --> 02:17:12,520
Speaker 17: about like two years ago, I was in the Marshal Islands,

2681
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:16,760
Speaker 17: right where like the apocalypse has come, right, the atomic

2682
02:17:16,800 --> 02:17:19,200
Speaker 17: bomb has dropped on the Marshal Islands, the United States.

2683
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:22,440
Speaker 17: We did that, and the sea levels a rising such

2684
02:17:22,440 --> 02:17:24,959
Speaker 17: that like children born there today won't die there, right,

2685
02:17:25,240 --> 02:17:27,440
Speaker 17: they probably won't even have their own children there, you know,

2686
02:17:27,480 --> 02:17:31,520
Speaker 17: twenty thirty forty years left. And I didn't see like

2687
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:35,119
Speaker 17: people fighting each other for the highest point of land. Yeah,

2688
02:17:35,520 --> 02:17:39,119
Speaker 17: I saw people taking care of one another, thinking about

2689
02:17:39,160 --> 02:17:41,960
Speaker 17: how like not just like their individual you know, they

2690
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:45,400
Speaker 17: could maintain their assets, but how their community could survive,

2691
02:17:45,480 --> 02:17:48,240
Speaker 17: how their culture could survive, and how they could keep

2692
02:17:48,280 --> 02:17:52,120
Speaker 17: the things, the incredible hospitality that's so special to them,

2693
02:17:52,200 --> 02:17:55,160
Speaker 17: which I thought was like very revealing compared to this

2694
02:17:55,240 --> 02:18:00,200
Speaker 17: sort of mindset that you see more conventionally in like preppers.

2695
02:18:00,840 --> 02:18:01,400
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2696
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:05,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And to finally get to my own kind of

2697
02:18:05,280 --> 02:18:09,279
Speaker 1: little journey into preparedness. Yeah, I wasn't a prepper until

2698
02:18:09,320 --> 02:18:11,240
Speaker 1: like not that long ago. Really.

2699
02:18:12,040 --> 02:18:12,640
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2700
02:18:12,680 --> 02:18:15,400
Speaker 1: When I first heard Live Like the World Is Dying,

2701
02:18:15,600 --> 02:18:18,960
Speaker 1: it was twenty twenty. COVID was still new. There was

2702
02:18:19,000 --> 02:18:21,920
Speaker 1: like extreme civil unrest because there was an uprising going on,

2703
02:18:22,720 --> 02:18:26,039
Speaker 1: and the same fascist that's our sitting president now was

2704
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:28,800
Speaker 1: our president then, and he was backed up by people

2705
02:18:28,840 --> 02:18:32,439
Speaker 1: like Kyle Rittenhouse who were gunning people down in streets

2706
02:18:32,440 --> 02:18:36,000
Speaker 1: for protesting a racist murder. Where I lived in entire

2707
02:18:36,080 --> 02:18:40,080
Speaker 1: Mountain Range was also on fire. Yeah, and the idea

2708
02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:43,000
Speaker 1: that it was the coolest summer I might ever remember

2709
02:18:43,120 --> 02:18:45,800
Speaker 1: was still setting in. And then I heard about Margaret

2710
02:18:45,800 --> 02:18:48,480
Speaker 1: doing Live Like the World Is Dying, and I actually

2711
02:18:48,520 --> 02:18:51,160
Speaker 1: refused to listen to it because I knew with every

2712
02:18:51,160 --> 02:18:55,160
Speaker 1: fiber of my body that things were irrevocably different, and

2713
02:18:55,240 --> 02:18:57,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to stick my head in the sand, you know,

2714
02:18:57,959 --> 02:19:02,400
Speaker 1: like not because I was scared, but because getting prepared

2715
02:19:02,440 --> 02:19:05,160
Speaker 1: is overwhelming, and I didn't have any clue where to begin.

2716
02:19:06,000 --> 02:19:08,480
Speaker 1: Like I was a scrappy punk I didn't have like

2717
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:13,840
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars to spend on gear and stockpiling food

2718
02:19:14,080 --> 02:19:17,800
Speaker 1: and guns and shit, you know. Yeah, And so it

2719
02:19:17,959 --> 02:19:20,240
Speaker 1: felt for a while like preparedness was only for people

2720
02:19:20,240 --> 02:19:23,800
Speaker 1: who had a lot of money, and that I'd be

2721
02:19:24,160 --> 02:19:26,920
Speaker 1: left behind. But I did eventually listen to the show

2722
02:19:27,440 --> 02:19:29,959
Speaker 1: because Margaret's my friend and I trusted she had good

2723
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:33,199
Speaker 1: things to say, and because it was a show about

2724
02:19:33,360 --> 02:19:36,920
Speaker 1: beginnings and I needed one. And so as I listened,

2725
02:19:36,959 --> 02:19:39,320
Speaker 1: I slowly started to warm up to the idea that

2726
02:19:39,959 --> 02:19:43,240
Speaker 1: preparedness wasn't just necessary, but that it was also very

2727
02:19:43,320 --> 02:19:48,959
Speaker 1: much within my reach, especially in the framework of community preparedness. Yeah,

2728
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:50,840
Speaker 1: and you know who can tell you a lot about

2729
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:56,720
Speaker 1: community preparedness. Who's said, I think these lovely sponsors or

2730
02:19:56,760 --> 02:20:00,080
Speaker 1: advertisements or products that were about to hear about.

2731
02:20:00,720 --> 02:20:12,520
Speaker 7: I sure, hope, so we are back.

2732
02:20:12,560 --> 02:20:16,640
Speaker 17: That was a fantastic ad transition, first of many. Hopefully

2733
02:20:16,680 --> 02:20:19,200
Speaker 17: it wasn't like apparently beginning ads for like some kind

2734
02:20:19,200 --> 02:20:22,400
Speaker 17: of gold company that is also sanctioned by God, God,

2735
02:20:23,320 --> 02:20:25,360
Speaker 17: that that is just just to be clear, not the

2736
02:20:25,440 --> 02:20:30,560
Speaker 17: way to go trans the community preparedness that precious metals route.

2737
02:20:30,640 --> 02:20:34,760
Speaker 17: This one we're not advising here. Can you like explain

2738
02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:38,959
Speaker 17: the difference between those two modalities, because I think, yeah,

2739
02:20:39,120 --> 02:20:42,360
Speaker 17: like I still when Margaret was asking me if I

2740
02:20:42,400 --> 02:20:43,920
Speaker 17: wanted to do live like the world is dying, she

2741
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:45,960
Speaker 17: was like, oh, because James is like when we did

2742
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:47,720
Speaker 17: an episode together and go back, She's like, oh, yeah,

2743
02:20:47,760 --> 02:20:51,000
Speaker 17: James's a big like like at lefty Prepper a community

2744
02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:53,640
Speaker 17: prepared And I was like, whoa, that's not me.

2745
02:20:53,840 --> 02:20:55,520
Speaker 7: I'm not going to be on.

2746
02:20:55,640 --> 02:20:57,959
Speaker 17: The Discovery Channel show, you know, like where the people

2747
02:20:58,600 --> 02:20:59,879
Speaker 17: shoot themselves on camera.

2748
02:21:00,120 --> 02:21:00,720
Speaker 7: Back then they.

2749
02:21:00,680 --> 02:21:04,720
Speaker 17: Didn't too kill themselves and they handle their firearms in

2750
02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:07,879
Speaker 17: an unsafe manner and hurt themselves totally. So let's explain, like,

2751
02:21:07,959 --> 02:21:10,320
Speaker 17: let's break down the good and the bad.

2752
02:21:10,560 --> 02:21:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's kind of a tension between them, yeah,

2753
02:21:14,200 --> 02:21:17,640
Speaker 1: and between like what i'll call community preparedness and like

2754
02:21:18,120 --> 02:21:19,640
Speaker 1: bunker syndrome prepping.

2755
02:21:20,000 --> 02:21:20,720
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2756
02:21:20,840 --> 02:21:23,160
Speaker 1: So the image that prepping brings to mind for a

2757
02:21:23,160 --> 02:21:26,160
Speaker 1: lot of people is like a right wing alpha dude

2758
02:21:26,160 --> 02:21:29,200
Speaker 1: in a bunker with a dragon horde of preserved food

2759
02:21:29,320 --> 02:21:31,959
Speaker 1: and more guns than anyone could ever use. It's like

2760
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:35,280
Speaker 1: an image of one person against the world. And I'm

2761
02:21:35,360 --> 02:21:39,160
Speaker 1: kind of like, Okay, your fantasy apocalypse happens. You survive

2762
02:21:39,480 --> 02:21:43,800
Speaker 1: the nuclear apocalypse, Armed gangs rove the wastelands, food is

2763
02:21:43,840 --> 02:21:47,400
Speaker 1: hoarded and fought over, and you're protecting your bunker. And

2764
02:21:47,440 --> 02:21:50,280
Speaker 1: then what, you know, what happens next? How do you

2765
02:21:50,400 --> 02:21:53,879
Speaker 1: build back a world alone? What is the world if

2766
02:21:53,879 --> 02:21:57,080
Speaker 1: you're alone? Yea, And not only like we've talked about that,

2767
02:21:57,120 --> 02:21:59,120
Speaker 1: we mentioned this earlier, but like, I don't I think

2768
02:21:59,160 --> 02:22:03,440
Speaker 1: this is not only like a fantasy, but it's not

2769
02:22:03,520 --> 02:22:08,040
Speaker 1: what happens I think historically in disasters and the way

2770
02:22:08,040 --> 02:22:10,400
Speaker 1: that we can make it through disasters, I think is

2771
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:12,959
Speaker 1: not based on how many resources we have hoarded, but

2772
02:22:13,120 --> 02:22:16,680
Speaker 1: based on our abilities to make and maintain community, friendship

2773
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:21,760
Speaker 1: and connections. You know, it's a trope, but the real

2774
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:25,520
Speaker 1: horde in the bunker was the friendship all along, you know.

2775
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:28,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, but you know, we do need

2776
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:31,400
Speaker 1: to learn how to produce and preserve food and build stuff.

2777
02:22:31,680 --> 02:22:34,360
Speaker 1: We just don't have to do it alone. In a disaster.

2778
02:22:34,480 --> 02:22:37,039
Speaker 1: Our greatest resource is help from people that we care

2779
02:22:37,080 --> 02:22:40,400
Speaker 1: about in potential new friends. And it's sort of the

2780
02:22:40,440 --> 02:22:43,320
Speaker 1: overwhelming amount of skills that come with the bunker syndrome

2781
02:22:43,640 --> 02:22:45,760
Speaker 1: that I think causes a lot of people to become

2782
02:22:45,879 --> 02:22:50,119
Speaker 1: overwhelmed by starting to prepare and the traditional preppery community.

2783
02:22:50,160 --> 02:22:54,040
Speaker 1: It's very right wing conservative, and it really makes it

2784
02:22:54,160 --> 02:22:57,200
Speaker 1: seem like every single person has to learn every skill

2785
02:22:57,600 --> 02:23:01,480
Speaker 1: they could possibly need in order to get for heard. Yeah,

2786
02:23:01,560 --> 02:23:04,920
Speaker 1: And I think part of that kind of bunker syndrome

2787
02:23:05,000 --> 02:23:07,280
Speaker 1: is also maybe that you have to learn all that

2788
02:23:07,320 --> 02:23:09,680
Speaker 1: stuff on your own because you low key think that

2789
02:23:09,720 --> 02:23:12,800
Speaker 1: everyone you know is going to turn on you, you know.

2790
02:23:13,520 --> 02:23:16,080
Speaker 17: Right, Yeah, because you've been an odious piece of shit

2791
02:23:16,240 --> 02:23:17,280
Speaker 17: for your entire life.

2792
02:23:17,400 --> 02:23:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again make better friends, you know. Yeah.

2793
02:23:21,840 --> 02:23:24,160
Speaker 17: Like I used to think that like preparedness was a

2794
02:23:24,160 --> 02:23:27,119
Speaker 17: lot of people who'd never really experienced genuine hardship wondering

2795
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:30,760
Speaker 17: what it might be like probably is, yeah, a lot

2796
02:23:30,760 --> 02:23:34,120
Speaker 17: of it is, right because like if you've been just

2797
02:23:34,240 --> 02:23:39,560
Speaker 17: like poor or otherwise facing like like trans folks right now,

2798
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:44,640
Speaker 17: right even like anyone really in their LGBTQAA area, Like

2799
02:23:45,520 --> 02:23:47,600
Speaker 17: it's scary right now, and you've probably found that the

2800
02:23:47,640 --> 02:23:50,360
Speaker 17: things are keeping you going are other people, yeah, and

2801
02:23:50,800 --> 02:23:54,480
Speaker 17: not your pile of beans. And like I certainly have

2802
02:23:55,000 --> 02:23:58,119
Speaker 17: not experienced what transfers are experiencing, but like I've had

2803
02:23:58,120 --> 02:24:00,960
Speaker 17: some difficult times and I've been poor, and like it's

2804
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:03,480
Speaker 17: always been like other people who have come through for me,

2805
02:24:03,760 --> 02:24:08,000
Speaker 17: not stuff I had or even skills I have. Really Yeah,

2806
02:24:08,040 --> 02:24:11,119
Speaker 17: And I think there's this real divide between like there's

2807
02:24:11,440 --> 02:24:14,480
Speaker 17: people who are in fantasy bunker land, and then there's

2808
02:24:14,520 --> 02:24:17,600
Speaker 17: people who are like either too afraid to think about

2809
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:20,760
Speaker 17: preparedness or feel too overwhelmed to think about it, or

2810
02:24:20,840 --> 02:24:26,199
Speaker 17: think that yeah, they can't possibly do it because it's

2811
02:24:26,320 --> 02:24:30,920
Speaker 17: too far gone already. And I think preparedness is for everyone,

2812
02:24:30,959 --> 02:24:34,920
Speaker 17: you know, like we say start small, put food away

2813
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:37,240
Speaker 17: every week, start to get your go back together.

2814
02:24:37,800 --> 02:24:38,279
Speaker 1: Just start.

2815
02:24:38,840 --> 02:24:39,480
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2816
02:24:39,720 --> 02:24:43,080
Speaker 1: And so to maybe now to find like what community

2817
02:24:43,080 --> 02:24:46,720
Speaker 1: preparedness is is, I think that it's what we get

2818
02:24:46,760 --> 02:24:48,920
Speaker 1: when we take a lot of different principles and mash

2819
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:52,199
Speaker 1: them together. You know, there's like it's like part mutual aid,

2820
02:24:52,200 --> 02:24:56,920
Speaker 1: it's part individual preparedness. It's principles of autonomy, solidarity, direct action,

2821
02:24:57,080 --> 02:25:01,440
Speaker 1: and collective decision making, and it's all synthesized into a

2822
02:25:01,520 --> 02:25:03,119
Speaker 1: kind of a beautiful little alchemy.

2823
02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:03,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2824
02:25:03,920 --> 02:25:06,959
Speaker 1: It's kind of the most like anarchistic thing you can do,

2825
02:25:07,160 --> 02:25:09,400
Speaker 1: which is really fun to me. Yeah, and I think

2826
02:25:09,400 --> 02:25:11,760
Speaker 1: it really means investing in the people around you so

2827
02:25:11,800 --> 02:25:15,800
Speaker 1: that you can all invest in collective survival. I know

2828
02:25:16,200 --> 02:25:18,560
Speaker 1: we mentioned this earlier, but like there's this thing that

2829
02:25:18,760 --> 02:25:23,879
Speaker 1: happens during disasters that gets referred to as disaster communism. Yeah,

2830
02:25:24,000 --> 02:25:25,280
Speaker 1: have you heard that one?

2831
02:25:25,440 --> 02:25:25,640
Speaker 8: Yeah?

2832
02:25:25,720 --> 02:25:26,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2833
02:25:26,280 --> 02:25:28,480
Speaker 17: It doesn't mean that like Lenin emerges and leads a

2834
02:25:28,560 --> 02:25:32,320
Speaker 17: vanguard group to show you where the Pupercachen's at.

2835
02:25:32,879 --> 02:25:33,600
Speaker 7: No, no, no.

2836
02:25:33,680 --> 02:25:36,920
Speaker 1: No, It means that the logic of capital is kind

2837
02:25:36,920 --> 02:25:41,160
Speaker 1: of temporarily suspended, and people just help each other for free,

2838
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:44,600
Speaker 1: not even for barter, for free, and like people like

2839
02:25:44,680 --> 02:25:47,439
Speaker 1: go out and just give out stuff they haven't excess,

2840
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:49,840
Speaker 1: even if they purchased it, and even if they're like,

2841
02:25:50,600 --> 02:25:52,720
Speaker 1: you don't look like the kind of people I like,

2842
02:25:53,520 --> 02:25:54,000
Speaker 1: just give.

2843
02:25:53,879 --> 02:25:55,400
Speaker 7: It out, Yeah, one hundred percent.

2844
02:25:55,520 --> 02:25:58,480
Speaker 17: Like, yeah, I think, like I can think of a few,

2845
02:25:58,480 --> 02:26:01,400
Speaker 17: Like I can remember when those of people were being

2846
02:26:02,280 --> 02:26:05,200
Speaker 17: housed outside in the cold and wet at the border.

2847
02:26:05,360 --> 02:26:07,840
Speaker 17: House is not the word I would use peralte In

2848
02:26:07,879 --> 02:26:10,240
Speaker 17: the desert. I was out there with my friends and

2849
02:26:10,280 --> 02:26:14,160
Speaker 17: like we look like dirty crusspunk people, right, Like we're

2850
02:26:14,240 --> 02:26:17,280
Speaker 17: not like clean and well put together in that sense, right,

2851
02:26:17,320 --> 02:26:20,360
Speaker 17: Like we just scruffed and that's fine, and I like

2852
02:26:20,400 --> 02:26:20,920
Speaker 17: being scrubbed.

2853
02:26:20,959 --> 02:26:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah that's nice.

2854
02:26:22,640 --> 02:26:26,040
Speaker 17: But like, yeah, it was amazing to see like folks

2855
02:26:26,040 --> 02:26:28,920
Speaker 17: who one hundred percent do not have the same politics

2856
02:26:28,920 --> 02:26:33,400
Speaker 17: as me, like roll out and whatever, like setups you

2857
02:26:33,400 --> 02:26:35,720
Speaker 17: know they had and like be like, yo, this is

2858
02:26:35,760 --> 02:26:38,760
Speaker 17: fucked luckily, Like I have some stuff that I was

2859
02:26:38,760 --> 02:26:40,720
Speaker 17: going to use for a barbecue next week. Some will

2860
02:26:40,800 --> 02:26:43,080
Speaker 17: drag my barbecue out here and cook for people, or

2861
02:26:43,120 --> 02:26:46,800
Speaker 17: like yeah, you know people who cook for their church's

2862
02:26:47,160 --> 02:26:49,440
Speaker 17: bake sale, being like yeah, I have a giant ass pot,

2863
02:26:49,520 --> 02:26:51,720
Speaker 17: Like let me make some beans for you guys. You know,

2864
02:26:51,879 --> 02:26:54,600
Speaker 17: Like yeah, I think people would be so surprised, and

2865
02:26:54,640 --> 02:26:58,039
Speaker 17: it's great that people have not experienced that, like because

2866
02:26:58,080 --> 02:27:00,160
Speaker 17: I think it's quite a traumatic thing to experience, Like

2867
02:27:00,600 --> 02:27:03,600
Speaker 17: you'd be so surprised how how much or like I

2868
02:27:03,600 --> 02:27:07,640
Speaker 17: remember one time just building shelters with a bunch of people,

2869
02:27:07,920 --> 02:27:11,640
Speaker 17: and like everyone was pretty miserable rates of cold and windy,

2870
02:27:11,680 --> 02:27:14,400
Speaker 17: and like there were some Kourdish guys and respect guys,

2871
02:27:14,400 --> 02:27:16,880
Speaker 17: some Chinese guys, and we're building these shelters together, and

2872
02:27:16,959 --> 02:27:19,280
Speaker 17: like all of these people who didn't even share a

2873
02:27:19,360 --> 02:27:21,520
Speaker 17: language and we're going through very difficult times. We're just

2874
02:27:21,560 --> 02:27:26,280
Speaker 17: like nerding out on knots together rare and just helping

2875
02:27:26,320 --> 02:27:28,240
Speaker 17: each other and then not doing that so they could

2876
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:30,640
Speaker 17: sleep inside, doing that so little children wouldn't have to

2877
02:27:30,680 --> 02:27:31,440
Speaker 17: sleep in the cold.

2878
02:27:31,760 --> 02:27:34,599
Speaker 7: But yeah, it's that. It's the way humans behave.

2879
02:27:34,400 --> 02:27:39,120
Speaker 17: In these situations, and capitalism or YouTube might have convinced

2880
02:27:39,160 --> 02:27:40,840
Speaker 17: you it's not, but it is.

2881
02:27:41,160 --> 02:27:44,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like more traditional preppers really like

2882
02:27:45,000 --> 02:27:47,160
Speaker 1: get into it too, Like they'll show up they're like

2883
02:27:47,440 --> 02:27:51,000
Speaker 1: I got forty chainsaws or like like it's like every

2884
02:27:51,240 --> 02:27:55,080
Speaker 1: like chud Truck's time to shine to like Halloway Repigeon,

2885
02:27:55,320 --> 02:27:57,320
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, you know, it's like I'm making

2886
02:27:57,360 --> 02:28:01,160
Speaker 1: it sound exciting, but what's exciting is when people collaborate

2887
02:28:01,240 --> 02:28:05,720
Speaker 1: autonomously and collectively for like more good than their own.

2888
02:28:06,560 --> 02:28:09,480
Speaker 1: And then kind of the problem is that like capitalism

2889
02:28:09,560 --> 02:28:14,720
Speaker 1: comes back in the initial fallout fades from sight, and yeah,

2890
02:28:14,760 --> 02:28:18,440
Speaker 1: just because the disaster kind of fades doesn't mean it's gone,

2891
02:28:19,040 --> 02:28:21,960
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of people who kind of still

2892
02:28:21,959 --> 02:28:25,040
Speaker 1: have to deal with it for potentially ever. Yeah, and

2893
02:28:25,080 --> 02:28:28,080
Speaker 1: that's kind of like the disaster of light stage capitalism

2894
02:28:28,200 --> 02:28:32,720
Speaker 1: is similar. We have people who are constantly invisibilized even

2895
02:28:32,760 --> 02:28:35,680
Speaker 1: though it's part of their regular lives.

2896
02:28:36,000 --> 02:28:36,680
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2897
02:28:36,959 --> 02:28:39,080
Speaker 1: Can I maybe break down some of these terms that

2898
02:28:39,120 --> 02:28:41,240
Speaker 1: are maybe it can be good for people? Yeah, yeah,

2899
02:28:41,760 --> 02:28:44,920
Speaker 1: because I think they get thrown around a lot, right, totally. So,

2900
02:28:45,680 --> 02:28:48,600
Speaker 1: Mutual aid is knowing that any help that we give

2901
02:28:48,640 --> 02:28:52,519
Speaker 1: our community helps us by strengthening our strengthening our community.

2902
02:28:53,120 --> 02:28:56,440
Speaker 1: Autonomy is deciding what's best for us based on what

2903
02:28:56,520 --> 02:29:00,720
Speaker 1: we know about ourselves and our needs. Solidarity is unity

2904
02:29:00,760 --> 02:29:04,560
Speaker 1: through action and knowing that. Like it's like the you know,

2905
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:07,320
Speaker 1: I got your back even if you don't got mine.

2906
02:29:07,480 --> 02:29:07,680
Speaker 4: You know.

2907
02:29:08,879 --> 02:29:12,080
Speaker 1: Direct action is working directly to achieve our goals instead

2908
02:29:12,080 --> 02:29:13,520
Speaker 1: of waiting for someone else to do it.

2909
02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:13,920
Speaker 4: You know.

2910
02:29:14,160 --> 02:29:16,800
Speaker 1: We see this in disasters like don't wait for FEMA.

2911
02:29:16,840 --> 02:29:18,600
Speaker 1: There's like so many people who are just out there

2912
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:23,480
Speaker 1: doing autonomous relief efforts and it's incredible collective decision making,

2913
02:29:24,160 --> 02:29:26,959
Speaker 1: finding ways to make decisions together in ways where power

2914
02:29:27,000 --> 02:29:33,000
Speaker 1: isn't being like abused or accumulated. And then there's individual preparedness,

2915
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:35,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of the last little thing I want

2916
02:29:35,480 --> 02:29:38,240
Speaker 1: to talk about. So individual preparedness is kind of like

2917
02:29:38,280 --> 02:29:41,800
Speaker 1: the ways that we prepare individually so that when a

2918
02:29:41,840 --> 02:29:46,640
Speaker 1: disaster strikes, we have our basic needs met and you know,

2919
02:29:46,680 --> 02:29:49,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot to learn. So it's like we it's

2920
02:29:49,160 --> 02:29:53,920
Speaker 1: easy to get lost back in that overwhelm mentality. Yeah,

2921
02:29:53,959 --> 02:29:56,039
Speaker 1: but I think we can really think about it in

2922
02:29:56,120 --> 02:29:58,680
Speaker 1: terms of disaster since we're on that track. Like, if

2923
02:29:58,720 --> 02:30:01,640
Speaker 1: there's a disaster d and power goes out, then the

2924
02:30:01,720 --> 02:30:05,200
Speaker 1: roads are less traversible. If you have all of your

2925
02:30:05,240 --> 02:30:08,160
Speaker 1: needs met through individual preparedness, then you're in a really

2926
02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:11,280
Speaker 1: good position to go help others. And if everyone in

2927
02:30:11,320 --> 02:30:15,480
Speaker 1: your community already has prepared for their basic needs, then

2928
02:30:15,520 --> 02:30:17,800
Speaker 1: your whole community is prepared to take kind of the

2929
02:30:17,840 --> 02:30:21,880
Speaker 1: next step towards recovery. And it means that your community

2930
02:30:21,920 --> 02:30:25,360
Speaker 1: can now help other communities that were less prepared or

2931
02:30:25,879 --> 02:30:30,080
Speaker 1: more impacted by a disaster, even if they thought they

2932
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:34,039
Speaker 1: were prepared. Community preparedness is like what happens when we

2933
02:30:34,200 --> 02:30:37,960
Speaker 1: kind of mash all of these ideas together and start

2934
02:30:38,000 --> 02:30:40,879
Speaker 1: doing it, not just as an individual, but as a community,

2935
02:30:41,200 --> 02:30:44,720
Speaker 1: and this can look small or it can look big,

2936
02:30:45,000 --> 02:30:47,240
Speaker 1: you know, And I think a lot of people's biggest

2937
02:30:47,280 --> 02:30:51,400
Speaker 1: hurdle is just like kind of making a plan, and like,

2938
02:30:51,480 --> 02:30:54,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, your disaster plan might include you and

2939
02:30:54,800 --> 02:30:57,320
Speaker 1: the people you live with, It might include you and

2940
02:30:57,360 --> 02:31:00,320
Speaker 1: your polycule. It might include you and your whole block,

2941
02:31:00,680 --> 02:31:03,760
Speaker 1: and it might include your whole neighborhood. And I think

2942
02:31:03,800 --> 02:31:08,000
Speaker 1: there's just this like big, beautiful spectrum and to kind

2943
02:31:08,000 --> 02:31:10,879
Speaker 1: of carry an example through, like some interviews that we've

2944
02:31:10,879 --> 02:31:13,840
Speaker 1: done on a livef the world is dying. Someone's measure

2945
02:31:13,959 --> 02:31:18,760
Speaker 1: of individual preparedness might include having a radio when cell

2946
02:31:18,800 --> 02:31:24,160
Speaker 1: networks go down, and anothers might include building communication infrastructure

2947
02:31:24,200 --> 02:31:29,160
Speaker 1: that they can distribute. And another maybe smaller groups idea

2948
02:31:29,640 --> 02:31:33,160
Speaker 1: might be agreeing on a place to meet up because

2949
02:31:33,800 --> 02:31:37,119
Speaker 1: they don't have radios, can't afford them, don't know how

2950
02:31:37,120 --> 02:31:40,760
Speaker 1: they work, and they've just said when shit hits the fan,

2951
02:31:41,080 --> 02:31:43,320
Speaker 1: we're meeting at the library.

2952
02:31:43,920 --> 02:31:44,320
Speaker 11: Yeah.

2953
02:31:44,520 --> 02:31:48,400
Speaker 7: That's still a whole lot better than like dashing around

2954
02:31:48,400 --> 02:31:49,880
Speaker 7: town wondering what the people you love.

2955
02:31:50,360 --> 02:31:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it's that easy. You know, we get

2956
02:31:52,800 --> 02:31:57,200
Speaker 1: overwhelmed by tech, but there's so many low tech solutions

2957
02:31:57,320 --> 02:31:59,240
Speaker 1: to a lot of these problems.

2958
02:31:59,560 --> 02:31:59,760
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2959
02:32:00,080 --> 02:32:03,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's why we're doing an episode on carry a pigeon. Yeah,

2960
02:32:03,400 --> 02:32:08,000
Speaker 17: carrier pigeons, aren't they extinct? That's passenger pigeons, different pigeons,

2961
02:32:08,000 --> 02:32:09,000
Speaker 17: passenger visions.

2962
02:32:09,080 --> 02:32:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2963
02:32:09,400 --> 02:32:12,920
Speaker 17: Yeah, So, like, what are some basic ways we can

2964
02:32:13,080 --> 02:32:15,440
Speaker 17: we can think about preparedness And we're going to cover

2965
02:32:15,480 --> 02:32:17,600
Speaker 17: these in more detail, right, we'll do episodes on each

2966
02:32:17,640 --> 02:32:20,760
Speaker 17: of these. But maybe someone's like, well, shit, I would

2967
02:32:20,840 --> 02:32:24,240
Speaker 17: like to get on that. What are some things people

2968
02:32:24,280 --> 02:32:24,880
Speaker 17: can work on?

2969
02:32:25,400 --> 02:32:25,959
Speaker 7: Yeah?

2970
02:32:26,200 --> 02:32:29,960
Speaker 1: I think it does start with kind of individual preparedness.

2971
02:32:30,040 --> 02:32:32,920
Speaker 1: And when I say individual, I mean, like, you know,

2972
02:32:33,000 --> 02:32:37,039
Speaker 1: for ourselves. But that doesn't mean we can't do individual

2973
02:32:37,080 --> 02:32:41,240
Speaker 1: preparedness parallel and like with other people. So don't think

2974
02:32:41,280 --> 02:32:44,840
Speaker 1: of individual as being alone. It's just we're thinking about

2975
02:32:45,560 --> 02:32:50,959
Speaker 1: your specific basic needs. And so here's kind of a

2976
02:32:51,040 --> 02:32:55,040
Speaker 1: checklist that we put out in a zine for strangers

2977
02:32:55,080 --> 02:32:59,720
Speaker 1: in a Tangled Wilderness called Ready for Anything. There's documentation

2978
02:33:00,120 --> 02:33:06,280
Speaker 1: you know, get or renewed documentation like passports, DOCA, other

2979
02:33:06,360 --> 02:33:10,080
Speaker 1: status cards whatever. Get a driver's license from your state

2980
02:33:10,160 --> 02:33:13,440
Speaker 1: if you are undocumented, if you have other kind of

2981
02:33:13,440 --> 02:33:17,720
Speaker 1: permits like concealed carry permits, or medical documentation for you

2982
02:33:17,760 --> 02:33:20,920
Speaker 1: and your pets. Get all of those together, and you

2983
02:33:20,959 --> 02:33:25,040
Speaker 1: want to think about having both physical and digital backups

2984
02:33:25,080 --> 02:33:30,920
Speaker 1: of those things. Yeah, because digital might not work. You

2985
02:33:31,000 --> 02:33:34,959
Speaker 1: want to do some kind of basic just supply preparedness,

2986
02:33:35,440 --> 02:33:39,480
Speaker 1: which is store three days or three weeks of food,

2987
02:33:39,920 --> 02:33:43,600
Speaker 1: store three days or three weeks of water, Store enough

2988
02:33:43,680 --> 02:33:46,840
Speaker 1: portable power to keep your phone and other essentials charged

2989
02:33:46,920 --> 02:33:50,680
Speaker 1: for three days or three weeks. Build yourself a go bag,

2990
02:33:51,000 --> 02:33:55,120
Speaker 1: stockpile prescription medication you need, keep your vehicle in good

2991
02:33:55,160 --> 02:33:57,720
Speaker 1: running condition with at least half a tank of gas,

2992
02:33:58,200 --> 02:34:00,680
Speaker 1: and get kind of any equipment stone that you might

2993
02:34:00,760 --> 02:34:04,840
Speaker 1: want now because it's going to be wildly unavailable when

2994
02:34:04,879 --> 02:34:05,960
Speaker 1: a disaster does come.

2995
02:34:06,440 --> 02:34:06,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2996
02:34:07,520 --> 02:34:12,080
Speaker 1: And then on the community side, get to know your neighbors,

2997
02:34:12,440 --> 02:34:18,119
Speaker 1: plan with them, help them with documentation and preparedness components.

2998
02:34:19,000 --> 02:34:22,320
Speaker 1: Make sure vulnerable neighbors know that you are a potential resource.

2999
02:34:22,879 --> 02:34:27,400
Speaker 1: Connect with activist groups locally. Build an affinity group. Maybe

3000
02:34:27,440 --> 02:34:31,240
Speaker 1: you and your friends are really into communication infrastructure, and

3001
02:34:31,400 --> 02:34:34,800
Speaker 1: when a disaster does strike, you just have that ready

3002
02:34:34,840 --> 02:34:37,879
Speaker 1: to go, while you know some other affinity group is

3003
02:34:38,320 --> 02:34:42,240
Speaker 1: making sure that everyone's fed Yeah, divide and conquer. I

3004
02:34:42,240 --> 02:34:45,879
Speaker 1: don't like that phrase, but it works, right Now, make

3005
02:34:45,920 --> 02:34:49,920
Speaker 1: a plan for securely communicating, and make plans for meeting

3006
02:34:50,040 --> 02:34:53,760
Speaker 1: up when things go wrong, and even when things kind

3007
02:34:53,800 --> 02:34:56,640
Speaker 1: of go wrong with your plan, you know, have a

3008
02:34:56,640 --> 02:34:57,560
Speaker 1: backup plan.

3009
02:34:57,760 --> 02:35:02,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, primary, alternate, contingency and emergency plan if you want

3010
02:35:02,520 --> 02:35:04,960
Speaker 7: to use the cringe military acronym.

3011
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:08,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then these are some kind of questions that

3012
02:35:08,920 --> 02:35:11,760
Speaker 1: I think you can ask your community when you're trying

3013
02:35:11,760 --> 02:35:15,480
Speaker 1: to think about building resiliency. What disasters are dangerous do

3014
02:35:15,520 --> 02:35:17,680
Speaker 1: you feel like you're likely to face? How can you

3015
02:35:17,720 --> 02:35:21,360
Speaker 1: maintain access to food, water, and communication? How will you

3016
02:35:21,480 --> 02:35:25,039
Speaker 1: interact with other groups? What skills do you currently have?

3017
02:35:25,240 --> 02:35:28,160
Speaker 1: What skills do you wish you had? Can you learn

3018
02:35:28,240 --> 02:35:32,119
Speaker 1: those skills? How will you foster care and address specific

3019
02:35:32,160 --> 02:35:35,760
Speaker 1: needs of individuals in your community? How will your community

3020
02:35:35,800 --> 02:35:39,840
Speaker 1: defend itself? And how can we resist despair and maintain

3021
02:35:39,879 --> 02:35:42,840
Speaker 1: access to joy? Which I think that last one really

3022
02:35:43,320 --> 02:35:44,880
Speaker 1: gets lost a lot.

3023
02:35:45,600 --> 02:35:48,280
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, people forget about that one, but it's important

3024
02:35:48,959 --> 02:35:53,480
Speaker 17: even in like really dark places, like I've attended civil wars, right, Like,

3025
02:35:54,360 --> 02:35:56,840
Speaker 17: maintaining access to joy is important, Like I've sat with

3026
02:35:56,879 --> 02:36:00,720
Speaker 17: people in Kurdistan and sung songs and played hambled, which

3027
02:36:00,760 --> 02:36:03,080
Speaker 17: is like I think the English word is ood, it's

3028
02:36:03,120 --> 02:36:06,600
Speaker 17: an instrument, and wild drones were vombit and so we

3029
02:36:06,640 --> 02:36:09,160
Speaker 17: didn't want to go outside at night. Golly, And like,

3030
02:36:09,680 --> 02:36:11,000
Speaker 17: let me tell you, it's a lot better if you

3031
02:36:11,040 --> 02:36:13,600
Speaker 17: have people to sing songs with and sitting on your own.

3032
02:36:14,280 --> 02:36:17,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm putting a songbook in my go bag now

3033
02:36:17,400 --> 02:36:18,640
Speaker 1: that's that's happening.

3034
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:22,360
Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah, these people had a folder like they came

3035
02:36:22,400 --> 02:36:26,800
Speaker 7: equipped with like laminated shit, like they were ready to rock.

3036
02:36:27,120 --> 02:36:27,480
Speaker 11: Golly.

3037
02:36:28,040 --> 02:36:31,560
Speaker 17: Yeah, that's kind of what I got, you know. Yeah,

3038
02:36:31,720 --> 02:36:34,360
Speaker 17: that's a great place for people to start. We're going

3039
02:36:34,400 --> 02:36:35,920
Speaker 17: to be covering a lot more of this stuff, so

3040
02:36:36,160 --> 02:36:39,600
Speaker 17: like you will hear more about water and food and

3041
02:36:39,640 --> 02:36:40,959
Speaker 17: all the other things.

3042
02:36:40,680 --> 02:36:41,640
Speaker 7: That we spoke about.

3043
02:36:42,160 --> 02:36:44,080
Speaker 17: Will try and do at least one of these episodes

3044
02:36:44,120 --> 02:36:46,280
Speaker 17: a month, and mean, where can people find you if

3045
02:36:46,280 --> 02:36:49,840
Speaker 17: they have questions, if they want to listen to other episodes.

3046
02:36:49,879 --> 02:36:51,960
Speaker 7: Maybe you've Live That the World Is Dying or otherwise

3047
02:36:52,000 --> 02:36:52,440
Speaker 7: reach out.

3048
02:36:53,040 --> 02:36:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to hear more about anything that

3049
02:36:56,480 --> 02:36:59,640
Speaker 1: I've talked about, then you can listen to Live Like

3050
02:36:59,680 --> 02:37:03,160
Speaker 1: the World is Dying. Wherever you get podcasts, where an

3051
02:37:03,320 --> 02:37:07,800
Speaker 1: entirely listener supported podcast with zero ad breaks. And you

3052
02:37:08,200 --> 02:37:10,840
Speaker 1: can find more of what our publishers, Strangers in a

3053
02:37:10,879 --> 02:37:14,840
Speaker 1: Tangled Wilderness does, including books and other podcasts we put

3054
02:37:14,840 --> 02:37:17,760
Speaker 1: out at Tangled Wilderness dot org, or you can support

3055
02:37:17,840 --> 02:37:21,320
Speaker 1: us on Patreon dot com slash Strangers and a Tangled Wilderness.

3056
02:37:21,800 --> 02:37:24,400
Speaker 1: And if you want to ask me personally about things,

3057
02:37:24,400 --> 02:37:28,240
Speaker 1: you can find me on Instagram at Shadowtale Artificery, where

3058
02:37:28,240 --> 02:37:31,160
Speaker 1: you can see other stuff that I do. That isn't

3059
02:37:31,200 --> 02:37:32,560
Speaker 1: this beautiful?

3060
02:37:32,800 --> 02:37:33,160
Speaker 7: Thank you?

3061
02:37:33,400 --> 02:37:33,600
Speaker 8: Yeah?

3062
02:37:33,680 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 3: Thanks?

3063
02:37:56,240 --> 02:38:02,200
Speaker 2: Holy balls, it's executive dysfunction. We call this right, right,

3064
02:38:02,959 --> 02:38:05,800
Speaker 2: executive disorder, a rectile dysfunction?

3065
02:38:06,080 --> 02:38:06,240
Speaker 5: Right?

3066
02:38:06,840 --> 02:38:07,360
Speaker 7: What do we do?

3067
02:38:07,640 --> 02:38:08,200
Speaker 2: Who are we?

3068
02:38:08,720 --> 02:38:09,039
Speaker 5: This is?

3069
02:38:09,240 --> 02:38:10,000
Speaker 7: It could happen here.

3070
02:38:10,160 --> 02:38:14,840
Speaker 13: Executive Disorder our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the

3071
02:38:14,879 --> 02:38:17,240
Speaker 13: White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you.

3072
02:38:17,879 --> 02:38:19,440
Speaker 13: Robert Evans, I'm.

3073
02:38:19,320 --> 02:38:22,200
Speaker 2: Sorry, Garrison. I thought we were anarchists, and being an

3074
02:38:22,240 --> 02:38:25,320
Speaker 2: anarchist means never knowing what you're doing or why.

3075
02:38:25,480 --> 02:38:30,800
Speaker 13: Yeskank of Phim, I'm Garrison Davis, joined by James Stout

3076
02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:33,039
Speaker 13: and Robert Evans and Sophie Lichterman.

3077
02:38:33,200 --> 02:38:35,560
Speaker 4: I wasn't planning on being in mic but it was very.

3078
02:38:35,400 --> 02:38:37,640
Speaker 13: Ap well, it happens very able.

3079
02:38:38,440 --> 02:38:42,119
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't plan for shit, Sophie.

3080
02:38:42,640 --> 02:38:43,880
Speaker 1: It's always chaos here.

3081
02:38:44,240 --> 02:38:47,760
Speaker 13: This week we are covering the week of July twenty

3082
02:38:47,800 --> 02:38:49,000
Speaker 13: third to July thirtieth.

3083
02:38:49,520 --> 02:38:51,120
Speaker 7: Robert Evans, how are you doing?

3084
02:38:51,680 --> 02:38:52,160
Speaker 11: You know what?

3085
02:38:52,440 --> 02:38:55,560
Speaker 2: I'm chillin' like Gillan. I'm not because I am not

3086
02:38:55,680 --> 02:38:59,879
Speaker 2: in a security prison in Tallahassee, Florida, a federal prison.

3087
02:39:00,040 --> 02:39:03,280
Speaker 2: It's actually not maximum security. So let's let's talk about

3088
02:39:03,400 --> 02:39:06,680
Speaker 2: friend of the pod Gilan Maxwell. We all love Gillan,

3089
02:39:07,040 --> 02:39:07,400
Speaker 2: you know.

3090
02:39:07,480 --> 02:39:08,440
Speaker 1: You speak for yourself.

3091
02:39:08,920 --> 02:39:11,959
Speaker 2: You love her. I lover her. Jeffrey Epstein loved her.

3092
02:39:12,400 --> 02:39:14,119
Speaker 11: Oh but I don't love her.

3093
02:39:14,480 --> 02:39:18,080
Speaker 2: So Gilan Maxwell is the daughter of a guy named

3094
02:39:18,200 --> 02:39:20,879
Speaker 2: Robert Maxwell. We've done it behind the bastards on him.

3095
02:39:20,920 --> 02:39:21,760
Speaker 4: It was a fun one.

3096
02:39:22,160 --> 02:39:26,320
Speaker 2: Bartley amazing character, basically a guy who in his early

3097
02:39:26,400 --> 02:39:30,400
Speaker 2: life was a character from inglorious bastards, like a Jewish

3098
02:39:30,440 --> 02:39:33,760
Speaker 2: refugee who signed up to fight the Nazis for the

3099
02:39:33,800 --> 02:39:37,359
Speaker 2: Brits and killed his way across Western Europe, murdering dozens

3100
02:39:37,360 --> 02:39:40,440
Speaker 2: of ss men and then after the war he became

3101
02:39:40,520 --> 02:39:44,840
Speaker 2: a financier and destroyed scientific publishing, and also tried to

3102
02:39:45,520 --> 02:39:48,320
Speaker 2: ignite a rivalry with Rupert Murdoch and failed so badly

3103
02:39:48,360 --> 02:39:50,200
Speaker 2: at it that he stole a billion dollars from his

3104
02:39:50,200 --> 02:39:53,360
Speaker 2: company's own pensions funds and then killed himself when all

3105
02:39:53,360 --> 02:39:54,440
Speaker 2: of that was coming out.

3106
02:39:54,520 --> 02:39:57,600
Speaker 13: So he really is like the average Quentin Tarantino character.

3107
02:39:57,640 --> 02:40:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I would describe him as if Quintin for

3108
02:40:00,640 --> 02:40:03,160
Speaker 2: some reason did a sequel to Inglorious Bastards and it

3109
02:40:03,280 --> 02:40:06,959
Speaker 2: was just based on Brad Pitt's character becoming like a

3110
02:40:07,040 --> 02:40:09,599
Speaker 2: crooked finance executive in the seventies.

3111
02:40:09,200 --> 02:40:11,320
Speaker 7: Coming like the Wolf of Wall Street type guy.

3112
02:40:11,560 --> 02:40:15,200
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly like that. That's his backstory. Did you use

3113
02:40:15,240 --> 02:40:18,200
Speaker 2: to murder Nazis? Yeah, but now I'm like foreclosing a

3114
02:40:18,280 --> 02:40:19,200
Speaker 2: children's hospital.

3115
02:40:20,280 --> 02:40:22,879
Speaker 13: Anyways, So Gillan.

3116
02:40:22,640 --> 02:40:25,800
Speaker 2: Had a rough upbringing because like her older brother had

3117
02:40:25,840 --> 02:40:27,640
Speaker 2: a car accident when she was very young, and he

3118
02:40:27,720 --> 02:40:31,320
Speaker 2: was in a coma for years. Her mom basically spent

3119
02:40:31,360 --> 02:40:33,400
Speaker 2: a whole year just at the hospital with him. She

3120
02:40:33,560 --> 02:40:36,840
Speaker 2: was ignored for a period of time, and then her

3121
02:40:36,879 --> 02:40:41,520
Speaker 2: parents tried to overcompensate and massively. Anyway, she has the

3122
02:40:41,600 --> 02:40:44,160
Speaker 2: kind of upbringing you would kind of expect for a

3123
02:40:44,200 --> 02:40:48,280
Speaker 2: socialite who winds up both poor as a young adult

3124
02:40:48,280 --> 02:40:51,119
Speaker 2: when her dad dies. Not real person poor, but rich

3125
02:40:51,160 --> 02:40:53,480
Speaker 2: person poor. When her dad dies and the family is

3126
02:40:53,520 --> 02:40:56,080
Speaker 2: disgraced and all their businesses fail, and she flees to

3127
02:40:56,120 --> 02:40:57,959
Speaker 2: New York to try to start a new life, and

3128
02:40:58,000 --> 02:40:59,760
Speaker 2: the thing that makes sense to her, based on her

3129
02:40:59,720 --> 02:41:01,959
Speaker 2: back ground, being the kind of person that she is,

3130
02:41:01,959 --> 02:41:06,119
Speaker 2: is to find a rich man and cling to him.

3131
02:41:06,600 --> 02:41:08,760
Speaker 2: And that rich man happens to be Jeffrey Epstein, who

3132
02:41:08,800 --> 02:41:11,280
Speaker 2: starts off by kind of renting her a luxury apartment.

3133
02:41:11,920 --> 02:41:15,120
Speaker 2: They begin dating. At some point they stop dating. It's

3134
02:41:15,200 --> 02:41:18,840
Speaker 2: unclear to me how they would have defined their relationship

3135
02:41:18,920 --> 02:41:21,800
Speaker 2: at any point internally. The way they would always say

3136
02:41:21,840 --> 02:41:24,879
Speaker 2: it is they dated for a while, and then Jeffrey

3137
02:41:24,879 --> 02:41:26,680
Speaker 2: had a thing where he would say, like he never

3138
02:41:26,959 --> 02:41:29,960
Speaker 2: he doesn't have exes. He promotes his exes to friends,

3139
02:41:30,120 --> 02:41:34,120
Speaker 2: right and Gilan Maxwell was like his best friend and

3140
02:41:34,440 --> 02:41:38,200
Speaker 2: his business partner. She helped him run not his actual

3141
02:41:38,280 --> 02:41:42,480
Speaker 2: businesses that made money, the finance stuff, but his life

3142
02:41:42,760 --> 02:41:45,920
Speaker 2: right like she ordered his houses, she managed his housekeepers,

3143
02:41:46,280 --> 02:41:50,480
Speaker 2: and she helped recruit girls and women because they recruited

3144
02:41:50,520 --> 02:41:53,400
Speaker 2: both for the stuff that Jeffrey is famous for, right,

3145
02:41:53,440 --> 02:41:57,039
Speaker 2: both to give him massages and in the context of Epstein,

3146
02:41:57,040 --> 02:42:00,560
Speaker 2: the massage always means sex. And also recruit the girls

3147
02:42:00,560 --> 02:42:03,720
Speaker 2: that they flew around on the Lilita Express and you know,

3148
02:42:03,800 --> 02:42:07,000
Speaker 2: handed off to different prominent men who wanted to have

3149
02:42:07,080 --> 02:42:09,320
Speaker 2: sex with teenagers or very young women.

3150
02:42:09,480 --> 02:42:09,640
Speaker 8: Right.

3151
02:42:10,040 --> 02:42:14,200
Speaker 2: Gillan was intimately involved in all of this. She was

3152
02:42:14,520 --> 02:42:19,840
Speaker 2: convicted in twenty twenty two after Epstein's suicide and sentenced

3153
02:42:19,840 --> 02:42:22,640
Speaker 2: to twenty years in prison for all of you know,

3154
02:42:22,840 --> 02:42:25,879
Speaker 2: the sex crimes that she had a part in. She

3155
02:42:26,040 --> 02:42:30,200
Speaker 2: was transferred to a federal prison in Tallahassee, Florida in

3156
02:42:30,280 --> 02:42:33,680
Speaker 2: July of twenty twenty two. She was initially held in

3157
02:42:33,959 --> 02:42:38,920
Speaker 2: the normal dorm like in general population, right, and the

3158
02:42:39,720 --> 02:42:41,680
Speaker 2: prison wing that she was in is was kind of

3159
02:42:41,680 --> 02:42:44,960
Speaker 2: colloquially known as the snake pit because it was a

3160
02:42:45,080 --> 02:42:47,800
Speaker 2: very nasty place with quite a lot of violence. To

3161
02:42:47,879 --> 02:42:51,279
Speaker 2: quote from an article in the Tallahassee Democrat quote, Maxwell

3162
02:42:51,360 --> 02:42:54,160
Speaker 2: created a ruckus when she had a falling out with

3163
02:42:54,200 --> 02:42:57,080
Speaker 2: several women. After Maxwell reported two other inmates known as

3164
02:42:57,120 --> 02:43:00,120
Speaker 2: Los Cubanas for trying to extort her Epstein's partner and

3165
02:43:00,160 --> 02:43:02,640
Speaker 2: crime refused to use the shower stalls, where violent attacks

3166
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:04,800
Speaker 2: are more common, and was escorted by a guard to

3167
02:43:04,920 --> 02:43:08,320
Speaker 2: and from her prison library job. So she has a

3168
02:43:08,520 --> 02:43:11,520
Speaker 2: kind of rough early time in prison because she's in

3169
02:43:11,600 --> 02:43:15,760
Speaker 2: general pop. She rolls on these other inmates, and that

3170
02:43:15,959 --> 02:43:19,560
Speaker 2: starts the process of her getting special treatment. She has

3171
02:43:19,640 --> 02:43:23,160
Speaker 2: since been moved because of her good behavior to an

3172
02:43:23,240 --> 02:43:26,760
Speaker 2: honor dorm, where there are thirty or forty quarters for

3173
02:43:26,879 --> 02:43:30,200
Speaker 2: the best behaved inmates. She's we don't really know for sure,

3174
02:43:30,200 --> 02:43:32,520
Speaker 2: but it's very likely that she has a private room

3175
02:43:32,640 --> 02:43:37,400
Speaker 2: with storage. She's teaching yoga classes at the prison. She

3176
02:43:37,480 --> 02:43:40,760
Speaker 2: has at some period of time volunteered at the library.

3177
02:43:41,200 --> 02:43:44,600
Speaker 2: She also teaches etiquette classes. And I want to make

3178
02:43:44,600 --> 02:43:46,200
Speaker 2: it clear I don't have an issue actually with the

3179
02:43:46,200 --> 02:43:48,560
Speaker 2: fact that she's teaching yoga or doing etiquette classes. I

3180
02:43:48,560 --> 02:43:50,680
Speaker 2: think if we're going to have prisons, prisoners should have

3181
02:43:50,760 --> 02:43:53,480
Speaker 2: access to stuff like that. I think that's all perfectly fine.

3182
02:43:53,680 --> 02:43:56,600
Speaker 2: I think her getting special treatment for good behavior I

3183
02:43:56,640 --> 02:43:59,240
Speaker 2: don't really love. But I also don't think we should

3184
02:43:59,240 --> 02:44:01,360
Speaker 2: have prisons that can be described as a snake pit.

3185
02:44:01,520 --> 02:44:04,360
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of on the mixed end here. Another

3186
02:44:04,360 --> 02:44:05,879
Speaker 2: thing that's kind of come out during her time in

3187
02:44:05,920 --> 02:44:09,200
Speaker 2: prison is that she has become a vegan. She was

3188
02:44:09,240 --> 02:44:11,039
Speaker 2: not for most of her life, but she did when

3189
02:44:11,040 --> 02:44:12,920
Speaker 2: she came to prison. She's complained a lot about the

3190
02:44:13,000 --> 02:44:15,879
Speaker 2: quality of the food, which is never spiced and it's

3191
02:44:15,920 --> 02:44:19,080
Speaker 2: just kind of like unflavored tofu, and Peta has advocated

3192
02:44:19,080 --> 02:44:22,320
Speaker 2: on her behalf, which is pretty consistent for Peta. She's

3193
02:44:22,360 --> 02:44:26,640
Speaker 2: also said, and there's significant evidence that this prison regularly

3194
02:44:26,680 --> 02:44:30,320
Speaker 2: serves rotten food that is bad for inmate health. It

3195
02:44:30,440 --> 02:44:33,240
Speaker 2: is a Florida prison. When Gillan talks about it, she

3196
02:44:33,280 --> 02:44:36,119
Speaker 2: has in several interviews the bad conditions in her prison.

3197
02:44:36,480 --> 02:44:41,360
Speaker 2: She's not lying or whining. These prisons are not acceptable quality, right,

3198
02:44:41,480 --> 02:44:44,760
Speaker 2: Like the Florida Department of Corrections and the Federal Department

3199
02:44:44,800 --> 02:44:47,920
Speaker 2: of Corrections are horrible and they're doing a horrible job

3200
02:44:47,959 --> 02:44:50,640
Speaker 2: of running these places. The fact that I don't feel

3201
02:44:50,640 --> 02:44:53,959
Speaker 2: specifically compassion for Gilan Maxwell doesn't mean I want to

3202
02:44:54,040 --> 02:44:57,840
Speaker 2: like minimize the reality of the conditions in these prisons,

3203
02:44:58,040 --> 02:45:02,240
Speaker 2: because most of the prisoners there not massive sex child

3204
02:45:02,320 --> 02:45:07,280
Speaker 2: sex traffickers, you know, yeah, sure, so anyway, FCI Tallahassee,

3205
02:45:07,320 --> 02:45:10,199
Speaker 2: which is where she's at. She's now in the prison's

3206
02:45:10,280 --> 02:45:13,880
Speaker 2: honor dorm and is still trying to get out of prison.

3207
02:45:14,160 --> 02:45:17,000
Speaker 2: So she's made a couple of claims prior to the

3208
02:45:17,000 --> 02:45:18,720
Speaker 2: most recent stuff that is in the news right now

3209
02:45:18,760 --> 02:45:20,880
Speaker 2: that we're talking about. One of the things she's tried

3210
02:45:20,920 --> 02:45:24,000
Speaker 2: to argue is that the terms of Jeffrey Epstein's when

3211
02:45:24,040 --> 02:45:26,640
Speaker 2: he was initially prosecuted back in like two thousand and seven,

3212
02:45:26,680 --> 02:45:29,240
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, the terms of his plea bargain

3213
02:45:29,800 --> 02:45:34,160
Speaker 2: should apply to her basically like she was included in that,

3214
02:45:34,400 --> 02:45:36,640
Speaker 2: and so she shouldn't be liable for the things that

3215
02:45:36,680 --> 02:45:40,440
Speaker 2: she got sentenced for more recently, I am not familiar

3216
02:45:40,480 --> 02:45:43,000
Speaker 2: with the exact legal ease her lawyer is using to

3217
02:45:43,040 --> 02:45:44,959
Speaker 2: make that argument, but that is the gist of the

3218
02:45:45,080 --> 02:45:48,039
Speaker 2: argument her lawyer is trying to make. It's not going

3219
02:45:48,080 --> 02:45:51,560
Speaker 2: to work. What might work is her getting a pardon.

3220
02:45:52,200 --> 02:45:54,920
Speaker 2: So that's probably the thing you've seen about Gillan in

3221
02:45:54,920 --> 02:45:59,080
Speaker 2: the news most recently is that she is basically asking Congress,

3222
02:45:59,120 --> 02:46:01,680
Speaker 2: if you want me to tell testify about Epstein and

3223
02:46:01,720 --> 02:46:05,199
Speaker 2: about the client list and everything. I can't talk openly

3224
02:46:05,520 --> 02:46:08,360
Speaker 2: if I'm in prison, and there's a degree to which, like, again,

3225
02:46:08,440 --> 02:46:11,520
Speaker 2: I don't support this at all, but she's not wrong

3226
02:46:11,560 --> 02:46:14,920
Speaker 2: that like, well, yeah, you really couldn't talk total Like

3227
02:46:15,080 --> 02:46:18,240
Speaker 2: it really isn't reasonable, unreasonable to say, yeah, someone's probably

3228
02:46:18,240 --> 02:46:20,160
Speaker 2: not going to be able to talk openly about all

3229
02:46:20,200 --> 02:46:23,119
Speaker 2: of the wealthy, powerful people they saw committing sex crimes

3230
02:46:23,360 --> 02:46:26,920
Speaker 2: while they're locked up in prison. Right, Not that Prayinger

3231
02:46:27,000 --> 02:46:28,760
Speaker 2: is the right thing to do either. I'm just like, yeah,

3232
02:46:28,800 --> 02:46:30,959
Speaker 2: I mean, I bet someone could have you killed. I

3233
02:46:31,000 --> 02:46:32,920
Speaker 2: bet there are people that you have dirt on that

3234
02:46:32,959 --> 02:46:34,520
Speaker 2: could have you killed in that prison.

3235
02:46:34,800 --> 02:46:35,160
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3236
02:46:35,240 --> 02:46:38,160
Speaker 7: Well, and she's currently appealing her conviction to this room court,

3237
02:46:38,200 --> 02:46:41,000
Speaker 7: and she's arguing, yes, that if she were to testifying

3238
02:46:41,000 --> 02:46:44,400
Speaker 7: for Congress, she would need immunity for anything that she says.

3239
02:46:44,680 --> 02:46:47,920
Speaker 2: Right, So that's what she's asking for now. That said,

3240
02:46:48,240 --> 02:46:51,400
Speaker 2: she has already very recently been talking with the Department

3241
02:46:51,440 --> 02:46:52,120
Speaker 2: of Justice.

3242
02:46:52,680 --> 02:46:55,599
Speaker 13: Yes, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blank.

3243
02:46:55,640 --> 02:46:58,880
Speaker 2: Todd Blanche had nine hours of meetings over two days.

3244
02:46:59,000 --> 02:46:59,240
Speaker 18: Wow.

3245
02:46:59,360 --> 02:47:00,120
Speaker 7: Okay.

3246
02:47:00,480 --> 02:47:04,320
Speaker 2: Now there are no public statements about what she said

3247
02:47:04,560 --> 02:47:07,560
Speaker 2: during this. We don't know what this was about. We

3248
02:47:07,680 --> 02:47:10,959
Speaker 2: do know there was some sort of immunity agreement.

3249
02:47:10,760 --> 02:47:13,840
Speaker 13: A limited immunity agreement for those meetings, and what she

3250
02:47:13,959 --> 02:47:15,800
Speaker 13: was saying in those meetings, okay.

3251
02:47:15,480 --> 02:47:18,720
Speaker 2: And we don't know precisely what it covered, but it

3252
02:47:18,760 --> 02:47:22,080
Speaker 2: probably means that basically, you're already in for twenty years.

3253
02:47:22,240 --> 02:47:24,680
Speaker 2: If you talk to us about stuff that may implicate

3254
02:47:24,720 --> 02:47:28,840
Speaker 2: you in crimes you haven't been charged for yet, you

3255
02:47:28,920 --> 02:47:31,520
Speaker 2: get immunity on That is what I would guess, right,

3256
02:47:32,040 --> 02:47:36,080
Speaker 2: but we don't actually know precisely, like what was happening here,

3257
02:47:36,160 --> 02:47:40,160
Speaker 2: and yeah, there's Barrett Berger, a former federal prosecutor in

3258
02:47:40,200 --> 02:47:43,640
Speaker 2: New York, told NBC News that he thinks that the

3259
02:47:43,640 --> 02:47:47,120
Speaker 2: interviews Blanche did were probably performative. Quote, it may just

3260
02:47:47,160 --> 02:47:48,560
Speaker 2: be a way of being able to say, look, we

3261
02:47:48,640 --> 02:47:51,600
Speaker 2: dotted every eye and crossed every t There's value in

3262
02:47:51,680 --> 02:47:53,440
Speaker 2: being able to say that we've tried to speak to

3263
02:47:53,560 --> 02:47:56,720
Speaker 2: everyone that we possibly could, including the co defendant. Right.

3264
02:47:57,040 --> 02:48:01,120
Speaker 2: So that's her argument is basically, yeah, Blanche met with

3265
02:48:01,200 --> 02:48:03,360
Speaker 2: Gillan so that they could say they're talking with her

3266
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:05,560
Speaker 2: because she's not going to talk to Congress and they're

3267
02:48:05,600 --> 02:48:07,720
Speaker 2: probably not going to offer her immunity.

3268
02:48:08,200 --> 02:48:11,200
Speaker 13: And it's hard to imagine that. Like Donald Trump's own

3269
02:48:11,240 --> 02:48:15,160
Speaker 13: Department of Justice is going to be investigating Donald Trump's

3270
02:48:15,200 --> 02:48:19,560
Speaker 13: connection to Jeffrey Epstein. So whatever comes of these meetings,

3271
02:48:19,879 --> 02:48:23,440
Speaker 13: I do not think that through these meetings she's going

3272
02:48:23,520 --> 02:48:26,160
Speaker 13: to incriminate Donald Trump and that's going to be handled

3273
02:48:26,160 --> 02:48:29,920
Speaker 13: in any serious way. If anything, something like the opposite

3274
02:48:29,959 --> 02:48:32,600
Speaker 13: is happening, where she's talking about people who are not

3275
02:48:32,720 --> 02:48:35,959
Speaker 13: Donald Trump, Yes, and in doing so trying to gain

3276
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:40,000
Speaker 13: some sort of favor with the President. As Trump has said,

3277
02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:44,640
Speaker 13: like last week, that he's quote unquote allowed to pardon her,

3278
02:48:45,440 --> 02:48:47,520
Speaker 13: not saying that he will, not saying that he plans to,

3279
02:48:47,920 --> 02:48:51,240
Speaker 13: but that he's allowed to. I can play that clip

3280
02:48:51,280 --> 02:48:52,160
Speaker 13: here for the audience.

3281
02:48:52,400 --> 02:48:53,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that.

3282
02:48:53,400 --> 02:48:54,520
Speaker 1: Would you consider a.

3283
02:48:54,440 --> 02:48:58,039
Speaker 2: Pardon or a commutation for Kelan Maxwell if you love something?

3284
02:48:58,120 --> 02:49:01,200
Speaker 7: I haven't thought about that really recommending that someone.

3285
02:49:01,200 --> 02:49:03,280
Speaker 5: I'm allowed to do it, but it's something I have.

3286
02:49:03,360 --> 02:49:03,880
Speaker 7: Not thought of it.

3287
02:49:04,000 --> 02:49:06,920
Speaker 2: I wouldn't rule it out to her and why. And

3288
02:49:07,040 --> 02:49:09,400
Speaker 2: in addition to that, he's made a couple of weird

3289
02:49:09,560 --> 02:49:13,199
Speaker 2: comments about Gillan over the years. When he's asked about

3290
02:49:13,320 --> 02:49:17,520
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Now, he's pretty negative about him. He tends to

3291
02:49:17,520 --> 02:49:19,840
Speaker 2: be like, look, we knew for a while, like we

3292
02:49:19,840 --> 02:49:22,360
Speaker 2: were never close and you know, we had a falling out.

3293
02:49:22,680 --> 02:49:25,400
Speaker 2: He's a bad guy, right, that's what he said. More recently,

3294
02:49:25,800 --> 02:49:30,320
Speaker 2: He's never really been negative about Gillan. More recently, the

3295
02:49:30,440 --> 02:49:33,280
Speaker 2: thing that I recall him saying is that, like he

3296
02:49:33,360 --> 02:49:36,800
Speaker 2: wishes her well when she was sentenced, Yeah, which is

3297
02:49:36,879 --> 02:49:39,520
Speaker 2: kind of weird, right, And I don't know if it's

3298
02:49:40,320 --> 02:49:43,760
Speaker 2: kind of a result of the fact that she has

3299
02:49:43,920 --> 02:49:48,240
Speaker 2: something on him and he's trying to you know, I

3300
02:49:48,240 --> 02:49:50,160
Speaker 2: don't know. That seems unlikely. That seems less likely to

3301
02:49:50,160 --> 02:49:52,400
Speaker 2: me than like maybe he actually just kind of liked

3302
02:49:52,440 --> 02:49:56,280
Speaker 2: Gilan Maxwell. But I don't actually know. And anyway, that's

3303
02:49:56,320 --> 02:49:59,000
Speaker 2: the situation. We don't know. Is Trump going to pardon her.

3304
02:49:59,440 --> 02:50:01,920
Speaker 2: He hasn't said he's going to. But as Garrison noted,

3305
02:50:02,120 --> 02:50:04,240
Speaker 2: it's weird of him to insist that he has the

3306
02:50:04,360 --> 02:50:07,320
Speaker 2: right to just kind of randomly, Yeah, why would you

3307
02:50:07,400 --> 02:50:09,040
Speaker 2: do that if you weren't thinking about it.

3308
02:50:09,480 --> 02:50:12,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, you can just say no, Like you can just say.

3309
02:50:11,879 --> 02:50:14,800
Speaker 2: No, I'm not gonna like, I'm not going to pardon her.

3310
02:50:15,000 --> 02:50:15,480
Speaker 17: Yeah.

3311
02:50:15,520 --> 02:50:19,360
Speaker 13: Well, and Trump has continued to make weird comments about

3312
02:50:19,400 --> 02:50:22,200
Speaker 13: like Epstein and has elaborated on his falling out with

3313
02:50:22,200 --> 02:50:25,720
Speaker 13: Epstein the past week, first stating that they broke up

3314
02:50:25,720 --> 02:50:29,560
Speaker 13: their friendship because Epstein was just poaching hotel staff, which

3315
02:50:29,640 --> 02:50:33,320
Speaker 13: contradicts Yeah, earlier state was Trump made. And then on

3316
02:50:33,480 --> 02:50:38,680
Speaker 13: July twenty ninth, he had this much more elaborate conversation

3317
02:50:38,920 --> 02:50:44,519
Speaker 13: on Air Force one about how Epstein was taking employees

3318
02:50:44,600 --> 02:50:48,760
Speaker 13: from his spa and specifically like naming known victims of

3319
02:50:49,200 --> 02:50:50,000
Speaker 13: sex trafficking.

3320
02:50:50,560 --> 02:50:54,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, he specifically named Virginia Jeffrey fairly recently too when

3321
02:50:54,520 --> 02:50:55,640
Speaker 2: talking about like people.

3322
02:50:55,800 --> 02:50:58,120
Speaker 17: It was yeah on the twenty nine Yeah, I think

3323
02:50:58,160 --> 02:51:00,400
Speaker 17: a reporter asked if he was one of the people,

3324
02:51:00,440 --> 02:51:04,160
Speaker 17: and he said, yes, I believe she was, right, Yeah.

3325
02:51:03,879 --> 02:51:06,920
Speaker 13: He says, I think so he stole her as the quote.

3326
02:51:07,000 --> 02:51:09,520
Speaker 17: Ye, Yeah, there was a reporter who introduced the name

3327
02:51:09,560 --> 02:51:11,119
Speaker 17: into the conversation to sweet clear.

3328
02:51:11,800 --> 02:51:16,200
Speaker 2: So, you know, do I think she's going to get pardoned?

3329
02:51:16,720 --> 02:51:19,600
Speaker 2: It seems really unlikely to me. And it seems really

3330
02:51:19,640 --> 02:51:23,400
Speaker 2: unlikely to me in part because how would that Like,

3331
02:51:23,520 --> 02:51:27,080
Speaker 2: I have trouble imagining even that not causing huge problems

3332
02:51:27,080 --> 02:51:29,280
Speaker 2: for him. Right, I'm not one of these This is

3333
02:51:30,040 --> 02:51:33,400
Speaker 2: guys who's constantly like, ah, Trump's Trump's finally, you know,

3334
02:51:33,440 --> 02:51:34,760
Speaker 2: we've got Donnie on.

3335
02:51:34,760 --> 02:51:38,039
Speaker 13: The road, finally got But this is this is.

3336
02:51:38,000 --> 02:51:40,160
Speaker 2: A big one, right, this is a big one to

3337
02:51:40,280 --> 02:51:44,400
Speaker 2: his followers, to just Americans in general. Something like seventy

3338
02:51:44,400 --> 02:51:47,200
Speaker 2: percent of the country or more is following this story

3339
02:51:47,400 --> 02:51:50,400
Speaker 2: actively and has a strong opinion on it, and there's

3340
02:51:50,680 --> 02:51:55,560
Speaker 2: zero electoral gain and pardoning Gillan fucking Maxwell right like

3341
02:51:55,640 --> 02:51:58,680
Speaker 2: it's a it's a it. It strikes me as unlikely

3342
02:51:58,760 --> 02:52:01,320
Speaker 2: because it seems like a serious damaging risk.

3343
02:52:01,840 --> 02:52:04,280
Speaker 13: The only thing they might try to do is if

3344
02:52:04,280 --> 02:52:06,600
Speaker 13: they try to paint like her herself as like a

3345
02:52:06,680 --> 02:52:07,800
Speaker 13: victim of Epstein.

3346
02:52:08,320 --> 02:52:08,720
Speaker 2: Right there.

3347
02:52:08,840 --> 02:52:11,880
Speaker 13: There's been like a Newsmax segment trying to argue this,

3348
02:52:12,040 --> 02:52:14,160
Speaker 13: so like you can see some sectors of the right

3349
02:52:14,160 --> 02:52:17,240
Speaker 13: who are trying to like create room for Trump to

3350
02:52:17,280 --> 02:52:20,120
Speaker 13: maneuver here. But I don't know if that will be

3351
02:52:20,600 --> 02:52:22,480
Speaker 13: a compelling narrative nationwise.

3352
02:52:22,560 --> 02:52:24,160
Speaker 7: He's got to lose some people if he does that.

3353
02:52:24,400 --> 02:52:29,000
Speaker 13: It seems unlikely, And I don't know. He seems annoyed

3354
02:52:29,120 --> 02:52:31,880
Speaker 13: that this is still a news story. He had this

3355
02:52:31,920 --> 02:52:35,400
Speaker 13: little Scotland vacation to finish a trade deal with the EU,

3356
02:52:35,440 --> 02:52:38,119
Speaker 13: which we'll talk more about next week, But throughout this

3357
02:52:38,680 --> 02:52:43,920
Speaker 13: Scotland vacation, he was quite upset that reporters there were

3358
02:52:44,120 --> 02:52:46,600
Speaker 13: still asking him about one Jeffrey Epstein.

3359
02:52:46,879 --> 02:52:52,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, oldn's normal Jeffreys story.

3360
02:52:53,160 --> 02:52:53,600
Speaker 16: Kid with.

3361
02:52:55,440 --> 02:52:57,600
Speaker 5: No had nothing to do with it. Only you would

3362
02:52:57,600 --> 02:53:00,439
Speaker 5: think that not had nothing to do with it.

3363
02:53:00,600 --> 02:53:02,280
Speaker 4: That is that why he cheated at golf?

3364
02:53:02,440 --> 02:53:04,520
Speaker 13: You know, that's a good a good call, Sophie. Maybe

3365
02:53:04,520 --> 02:53:06,760
Speaker 13: he was off his game because of all of these

3366
02:53:06,800 --> 02:53:09,080
Speaker 13: Epstein questions and that's the only reason why he cheated

3367
02:53:09,080 --> 02:53:12,120
Speaker 13: at golf this one time and definitely no other times ever,

3368
02:53:13,000 --> 02:53:15,240
Speaker 13: truly his most heinous crime.

3369
02:53:15,760 --> 02:53:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's kind of where we end off.

3370
02:53:18,760 --> 02:53:21,000
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say he wouldn't, right. I'll never say

3371
02:53:21,000 --> 02:53:23,520
Speaker 2: there's no way Gilan Maxwell gets pardoned because this is

3372
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:27,280
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five and be crazy. It's like, there's there's

3373
02:53:27,440 --> 02:53:30,200
Speaker 2: credible evidence that he is considering a pardon for fucking

3374
02:53:30,280 --> 02:53:30,800
Speaker 2: p Diddy.

3375
02:53:31,320 --> 02:53:31,520
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3376
02:53:31,680 --> 02:53:34,360
Speaker 11: Deadlin reported that yesterday.

3377
02:53:34,480 --> 02:53:37,440
Speaker 2: And again, if it is right, it's if he does.

3378
02:53:37,959 --> 02:53:40,600
Speaker 2: We know why. It's because p Diddy probably has some

3379
02:53:40,600 --> 02:53:42,879
Speaker 2: shit on Trump, right, and p Diddy has the kind

3380
02:53:42,879 --> 02:53:45,680
Speaker 2: of resources that he could have like a a dead

3381
02:53:45,720 --> 02:53:48,400
Speaker 2: fall system set up right that like if something happens

3382
02:53:48,440 --> 02:53:50,680
Speaker 2: to him, the info gets out like he that that

3383
02:53:50,760 --> 02:53:54,280
Speaker 2: is not beyond the kind of guy that P. Diddy is,

3384
02:53:54,480 --> 02:53:57,160
Speaker 2: Whereas I don't know that Epstein ever really prepared for

3385
02:53:57,200 --> 02:53:58,119
Speaker 2: that eventuality.

3386
02:53:58,440 --> 02:54:02,600
Speaker 13: No, I don't think so like Mark Epstein, Jeffrey's brother

3387
02:54:03,200 --> 02:54:08,120
Speaker 13: was interviewed by the BBC last week and mentioned how

3388
02:54:08,200 --> 02:54:12,199
Speaker 13: Jeffrey was talking about like possible information he has regarding

3389
02:54:12,240 --> 02:54:15,680
Speaker 13: to the twenty sixteen election. But it does not sound

3390
02:54:15,720 --> 02:54:17,879
Speaker 13: like there was any kind of like system for this

3391
02:54:17,959 --> 02:54:21,080
Speaker 13: information or that even any other people knew besides Jeffrey.

3392
02:54:21,120 --> 02:54:22,480
Speaker 13: I can play that clip here too.

3393
02:54:23,080 --> 02:54:27,080
Speaker 7: Did he tell you who he knew things about it? Well?

3394
02:54:27,120 --> 02:54:31,080
Speaker 19: In the twenty sixteen election, we were talking about the election,

3395
02:54:31,360 --> 02:54:33,840
Speaker 19: and Jeffrey told me that if he said what he

3396
02:54:33,920 --> 02:54:36,520
Speaker 19: knew about the candidates, they would have to cancel the election.

3397
02:54:36,840 --> 02:54:38,039
Speaker 7: That's a quote, It's.

3398
02:54:37,920 --> 02:54:38,800
Speaker 9: Exactly what he told me.

3399
02:54:38,879 --> 02:54:41,199
Speaker 19: He said, if I said what I knew about the candidates,

3400
02:54:41,440 --> 02:54:42,760
Speaker 19: they'd have to cancel the election.

3401
02:54:42,959 --> 02:54:45,280
Speaker 11: He didn't tell any what he knew, but that's what

3402
02:54:45,320 --> 02:54:45,879
Speaker 11: he said.

3403
02:54:46,800 --> 02:54:50,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, in general election, was like a very compartmentalized guy.

3404
02:54:50,400 --> 02:54:54,840
Speaker 2: And I don't know we'll see what happens with all

3405
02:54:54,879 --> 02:54:57,400
Speaker 2: of these cases. It's going to be worth following. But

3406
02:54:57,440 --> 02:54:59,920
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem to be going away the way that

3407
02:55:00,080 --> 02:55:03,480
Speaker 2: a lot of Trump stuff does, because I mean, it's Epstein, right,

3408
02:55:03,520 --> 02:55:05,600
Speaker 2: You've gotten too much of your base hooked on this

3409
02:55:05,680 --> 02:55:08,480
Speaker 2: story for them to just give it up because it's

3410
02:55:08,560 --> 02:55:11,440
Speaker 2: inconvenient now. So I don't know what's gonna happen, but

3411
02:55:11,640 --> 02:55:16,439
Speaker 2: we'll keep watching and you keep listening to these ads. Beautiful,

3412
02:55:28,879 --> 02:55:33,119
Speaker 2: Oh my god, those ads were so good. I feel

3413
02:55:33,160 --> 02:55:36,640
Speaker 2: like that picture of Bill Clinton getting a back massage

3414
02:55:36,760 --> 02:55:38,680
Speaker 2: from Nope, I.

3415
02:55:38,640 --> 02:55:40,600
Speaker 13: Don't know if we should do that in this episode.

3416
02:55:41,320 --> 02:55:45,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Anyway, what's next? What do we talk about next?

3417
02:55:45,720 --> 02:55:49,560
Speaker 13: Speaking of pardons and Epstein, I'm gonna I'm gonna play

3418
02:55:49,600 --> 02:55:54,800
Speaker 13: one other clip from Trump's Scotland vacation where he's trying

3419
02:55:54,800 --> 02:55:58,520
Speaker 13: to reiterate his whole Epstein hoax narrative and in doing

3420
02:55:58,560 --> 02:56:02,359
Speaker 13: so invokes something thing that relates to our next topic.

3421
02:56:02,440 --> 02:56:04,320
Speaker 13: But I'll play this clip here.

3422
02:56:04,680 --> 02:56:07,879
Speaker 5: So hoax that's been built up way beyond proportion. I

3423
02:56:07,879 --> 02:56:10,840
Speaker 5: can say this. Those files were run by the worst

3424
02:56:10,879 --> 02:56:16,240
Speaker 5: come on earth. They were run by Komi. They were

3425
02:56:16,320 --> 02:56:20,080
Speaker 5: run by Garland. They were run by Biden and all

3426
02:56:20,120 --> 02:56:24,480
Speaker 5: of the people that actually ran the government, including the autopen.

3427
02:56:25,480 --> 02:56:29,320
Speaker 5: Those files were run for four years by those people.

3428
02:56:29,560 --> 02:56:31,840
Speaker 5: If they had anything, I assumed they would have released it.

3429
02:56:32,400 --> 02:56:35,480
Speaker 7: The whole thing is a hoax. They ran the files.

3430
02:56:36,120 --> 02:56:40,320
Speaker 5: I was running against somebody that ran the files.

3431
02:56:40,440 --> 02:56:43,600
Speaker 13: The autopen. That's going to be our first mini mini

3432
02:56:43,680 --> 02:56:47,480
Speaker 13: story this episode. So, the autopen is this tool that

3433
02:56:47,600 --> 02:56:51,440
Speaker 13: helps with the signing of documents. It automates the process

3434
02:56:51,680 --> 02:56:55,240
Speaker 13: by replicating a signature. And this is a machine long

3435
02:56:55,440 --> 02:56:58,920
Speaker 13: used in the White House. It's for like hundreds of years.

3436
02:56:59,360 --> 02:57:01,280
Speaker 13: Barack Obama the first one to officially use it to

3437
02:57:01,280 --> 02:57:06,280
Speaker 13: sign led legislation. But this is a regular tool, right

3438
02:57:06,480 --> 02:57:09,080
Speaker 13: And the past few months, Trump has been increasingly obsessed

3439
02:57:09,120 --> 02:57:14,200
Speaker 13: with the autopen in trying to attack Biden's administration and

3440
02:57:14,560 --> 02:57:17,240
Speaker 13: somehow like take some of the blame away from Biden

3441
02:57:17,240 --> 02:57:21,680
Speaker 13: and onto the people who Biden was surrounded by. In June,

3442
02:57:21,720 --> 02:57:24,840
Speaker 13: Trump ordered an investigation into Biden's alleged use of the

3443
02:57:24,879 --> 02:57:28,280
Speaker 13: autopen and if other figures in Biden's White House were

3444
02:57:28,400 --> 02:57:32,720
Speaker 13: using the autopen without Biden's knowledge. Acting as shadow president.

3445
02:57:33,440 --> 02:57:36,920
Speaker 13: I'm going to play a clip here from Fox News

3446
02:57:37,000 --> 02:57:40,560
Speaker 13: discussing the possible ramifications of the autopen's use.

3447
02:57:40,959 --> 02:57:43,039
Speaker 20: Mister Chairman, you mentioned that you're looking at some of

3448
02:57:43,080 --> 02:57:45,920
Speaker 20: the pardons that were done under President Biden and the

3449
02:57:46,000 --> 02:57:48,920
Speaker 20: use of the AUTOPEN, doctor Fauci being one of them,

3450
02:57:49,160 --> 02:57:51,320
Speaker 20: talking about whether they were legitimate or not. Are you

3451
02:57:51,440 --> 02:57:54,440
Speaker 20: also looking into Biden's judicial appointments as well.

3452
02:57:56,440 --> 02:58:00,200
Speaker 21: Absolutely everything that was signed with the AUTOPEN, especially in

3453
02:58:00,280 --> 02:58:03,600
Speaker 21: the last year of the Biden presidency. This is when

3454
02:58:04,280 --> 02:58:07,119
Speaker 21: all the books that are being written, all the tell

3455
02:58:07,160 --> 02:58:11,480
Speaker 21: all interviews that are being recorded from his former disgruntled

3456
02:58:11,560 --> 02:58:15,199
Speaker 21: staffers and staffers who are trying to preserve the reputation

3457
02:58:15,720 --> 02:58:19,200
Speaker 21: for future employment. They're all saying that Joe Biden was

3458
02:58:19,240 --> 02:58:23,520
Speaker 21: in a deep mental decline. This raises an issue whether

3459
02:58:23,600 --> 02:58:28,160
Speaker 21: these pardons, whether these judicial appointments, and whether these executive.

3460
02:58:27,760 --> 02:58:28,960
Speaker 9: Orders are legal.

3461
02:58:29,280 --> 02:58:32,120
Speaker 21: I believe that if this investigation keeps going in the

3462
02:58:32,160 --> 02:58:35,040
Speaker 21: way that it's going, that's going to very serious concerns

3463
02:58:35,080 --> 02:58:38,240
Speaker 21: about whether or not Joe Biden even what was going

3464
02:58:38,280 --> 02:58:41,560
Speaker 21: on around him, much less whether he authorized the use

3465
02:58:41,840 --> 02:58:43,959
Speaker 21: of his signature on all of this stuff. I think

3466
02:58:44,040 --> 02:58:46,960
Speaker 21: all of these are in jeopardy of being declared null

3467
02:58:47,080 --> 02:58:49,120
Speaker 21: and void in a court of law. And that's a

3468
02:58:49,120 --> 02:58:51,360
Speaker 21: big deal for the Trump administration because so much of

3469
02:58:51,400 --> 02:58:54,800
Speaker 21: what Trump is up against in court now with these

3470
02:58:55,440 --> 02:58:59,119
Speaker 21: liberal biased Biden appointed judges is the fact that they're

3471
02:58:59,280 --> 02:59:03,520
Speaker 21: using and citing some of these executive orders as reason

3472
02:59:03,959 --> 02:59:08,119
Speaker 21: to to to throw out President Trump's agenda and President

3473
02:59:08,160 --> 02:59:09,480
Speaker 21: Trump's executive orders.

3474
02:59:09,680 --> 02:59:12,360
Speaker 13: So that gets into this the scope of things that

3475
02:59:12,400 --> 02:59:15,400
Speaker 13: we're dealing with here. It's it's it's not just pardons.

3476
02:59:15,800 --> 02:59:18,600
Speaker 13: This this started by talking about Biden's pardons this past

3477
02:59:18,720 --> 02:59:22,360
Speaker 13: March on a on a truth on Truth social Trump

3478
02:59:22,520 --> 02:59:25,240
Speaker 13: claimed that Biden's preemptive partons and members of the January

3479
02:59:25,240 --> 02:59:30,080
Speaker 13: sixth Investigation House Committee are quote hereby declared void, vacant,

3480
02:59:30,160 --> 02:59:33,360
Speaker 13: and of no further force of effect because of the

3481
02:59:33,400 --> 02:59:36,680
Speaker 13: fact that they were done by auto pen unquote, And

3482
02:59:36,760 --> 02:59:39,160
Speaker 13: like this just isn't true that there there is no

3483
02:59:39,320 --> 02:59:43,280
Speaker 13: constitutional requirement that pardons even be signed. He cannot void

3484
02:59:43,320 --> 02:59:45,840
Speaker 13: pardons like this allegedly, right, who knows what they'll try

3485
02:59:45,879 --> 02:59:49,480
Speaker 13: to like do by like enforcement. But according to like

3486
02:59:49,520 --> 02:59:53,560
Speaker 13: the legal the legal systems currently in place, this this

3487
02:59:53,720 --> 02:59:56,879
Speaker 13: like isn't real. But if they do try to legitimately

3488
02:59:56,920 --> 02:59:59,400
Speaker 13: go after like judicial appointments and try to create this

3489
02:59:59,480 --> 03:00:02,320
Speaker 13: conspiracy see of this like shadow cabinet that was secretly

3490
03:00:02,360 --> 03:00:05,280
Speaker 13: running the government. I will be interested to see where

3491
03:00:05,320 --> 03:00:07,760
Speaker 13: that goes and the extent to which they think they

3492
03:00:07,800 --> 03:00:09,800
Speaker 13: can pull that off, especially as a way to like

3493
03:00:09,879 --> 03:00:14,720
Speaker 13: bypass judges who are blocking various Trump policies from being

3494
03:00:14,720 --> 03:00:15,560
Speaker 13: put into effect.

3495
03:00:15,760 --> 03:00:16,360
Speaker 11: Yeah.

3496
03:00:16,440 --> 03:00:18,360
Speaker 2: I mean, I've just always been of the opinion that

3497
03:00:18,360 --> 03:00:20,760
Speaker 2: we shouldn't even be allowing these people to use pins,

3498
03:00:20,879 --> 03:00:25,280
Speaker 2: you know, niform. We already had the perfect way of

3499
03:00:25,800 --> 03:00:28,240
Speaker 2: putting law on the books, and we need to go back.

3500
03:00:28,280 --> 03:00:29,000
Speaker 2: We need to return.

3501
03:00:29,280 --> 03:00:31,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, then to books exists in or is it all

3502
03:00:31,320 --> 03:00:33,520
Speaker 7: in the clay tablets? As God in.

3503
03:00:33,920 --> 03:00:37,360
Speaker 2: All clay tablets, James, We've got him, robber the whole

3504
03:00:37,360 --> 03:00:38,720
Speaker 2: internet clay tablets.

3505
03:00:38,760 --> 03:00:42,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, because none of these laws are actually written on clay,

3506
03:00:42,480 --> 03:00:44,680
Speaker 17: and therefore, I for one belief that they do not

3507
03:00:44,680 --> 03:00:45,240
Speaker 17: apply to me.

3508
03:00:45,360 --> 03:00:47,760
Speaker 2: That they're not valid. You know, you've heard of e

3509
03:00:47,920 --> 03:00:49,520
Speaker 2: ink screens. We need eat clay.

3510
03:00:50,040 --> 03:00:52,760
Speaker 17: That is the only way that a law could be

3511
03:00:52,800 --> 03:00:56,240
Speaker 17: passed in these United States. Otherwise I retain my sovereignty as.

3512
03:00:56,120 --> 03:00:58,279
Speaker 2: A citizens that's what it's about.

3513
03:00:58,640 --> 03:01:02,600
Speaker 13: Trump does pride himself on always using the pen to

3514
03:01:02,640 --> 03:01:05,680
Speaker 13: sign things himself, except for like fan mail and like

3515
03:01:05,720 --> 03:01:07,960
Speaker 13: thank you cards, and which he gets his staff to

3516
03:01:08,000 --> 03:01:11,760
Speaker 13: use the auto pen to sign those toilup orders. But

3517
03:01:12,160 --> 03:01:15,199
Speaker 13: for all serious matters he prides himself on only using

3518
03:01:15,240 --> 03:01:15,720
Speaker 13: the pen.

3519
03:01:16,160 --> 03:01:17,600
Speaker 7: Not just the pen Garrison.

3520
03:01:18,000 --> 03:01:20,360
Speaker 17: I believe he has a special Trump edition shoppie has

3521
03:01:20,400 --> 03:01:21,760
Speaker 17: a big bucket of them on his desk.

3522
03:01:21,800 --> 03:01:24,720
Speaker 7: If a call correctly that he then did, they sell

3523
03:01:24,760 --> 03:01:26,959
Speaker 7: them off off to it my mistake.

3524
03:01:27,120 --> 03:01:31,160
Speaker 13: Uses his special sharpie to sign all documents, including the

3525
03:01:31,160 --> 03:01:35,160
Speaker 13: next two topics, which are some executive orders.

3526
03:01:35,280 --> 03:01:35,560
Speaker 9: Shit.

3527
03:01:35,800 --> 03:01:38,160
Speaker 13: So there's been a number of executive orders in the

3528
03:01:38,200 --> 03:01:42,400
Speaker 13: past few weeks that are forming what's what the White

3529
03:01:42,400 --> 03:01:46,600
Speaker 13: House is calling the AI Action Plan, which largely seeks

3530
03:01:46,600 --> 03:01:50,000
Speaker 13: to loosen restrictions and regulations on AI and accelerate the

3531
03:01:50,000 --> 03:01:52,520
Speaker 13: building of data centers to power AI training so that

3532
03:01:52,600 --> 03:01:56,959
Speaker 13: American companies can better compete in the global market. But

3533
03:01:57,840 --> 03:02:00,760
Speaker 13: there was another AI executive order signed to last week

3534
03:02:00,800 --> 03:02:06,320
Speaker 13: on July twenty third, which is titled preventing Woke AI

3535
03:02:06,640 --> 03:02:11,280
Speaker 13: in the Federal Government. Wow, incredible. I'm going to read

3536
03:02:11,720 --> 03:02:16,080
Speaker 13: the first two sentences, which are which are long sentences

3537
03:02:16,640 --> 03:02:21,320
Speaker 13: of the AI Executive Order on woke AI quote. In

3538
03:02:21,480 --> 03:02:26,040
Speaker 13: the AI context, DEI includes the suppression or distortion of

3539
03:02:26,120 --> 03:02:29,600
Speaker 13: factual information about race or sex, manipulation of racial or

3540
03:02:29,600 --> 03:02:33,760
Speaker 13: sexual representation in model outputs, incorporation of concepts like critical

3541
03:02:33,840 --> 03:02:39,440
Speaker 13: race theory, transgenderism, unconscious bias, intersectionality, and systemic racism, and

3542
03:02:39,520 --> 03:02:44,560
Speaker 13: discrimination on the basis of race or sex. DEI displaces

3543
03:02:44,560 --> 03:02:47,480
Speaker 13: a commitment to truth in favor of preferred outcomes, and,

3544
03:02:47,840 --> 03:02:52,680
Speaker 13: as recent history illustrates, poses an existential threat to reliable AI.

3545
03:02:53,760 --> 03:02:57,560
Speaker 13: For example, one major AI model changed the race or

3546
03:02:57,640 --> 03:03:01,560
Speaker 13: sex of historical figures, including the Pope, the Founding Fathers,

3547
03:03:01,600 --> 03:03:05,160
Speaker 13: and vikings when prompted for images because it was trained

3548
03:03:05,160 --> 03:03:08,800
Speaker 13: to prioritize DEI requirements at the cost of accuracy. Another

3549
03:03:08,879 --> 03:03:11,959
Speaker 13: AI model refused to produce images celebrating the achievements of

3550
03:03:12,080 --> 03:03:16,039
Speaker 13: white people, even while complying in the same request for

3551
03:03:16,120 --> 03:03:19,480
Speaker 13: people of other races. And yet another case, an AI

3552
03:03:19,520 --> 03:03:22,680
Speaker 13: model asserted that a user should not quote unquote misgender

3553
03:03:23,040 --> 03:03:26,080
Speaker 13: another person, even if necessary to stop a new killar

3554
03:03:26,160 --> 03:03:31,400
Speaker 13: apocaly Official White House Executive Order.

3555
03:03:31,320 --> 03:03:34,040
Speaker 17: Documentary The last one is one of the fucking funniest

3556
03:03:34,040 --> 03:03:35,160
Speaker 17: things I've ever heard.

3557
03:03:35,440 --> 03:03:37,640
Speaker 13: Would you suck off one hundred apes to save one

3558
03:03:37,720 --> 03:03:38,280
Speaker 13: human life?

3559
03:03:38,520 --> 03:03:42,680
Speaker 2: Well that absolutely not absolutely happens, but I would do

3560
03:03:42,760 --> 03:03:43,360
Speaker 2: the reverse.

3561
03:03:44,480 --> 03:03:47,480
Speaker 13: This is this is like this is crazy stuff, right,

3562
03:03:47,560 --> 03:03:49,680
Speaker 13: This this is stuff that you would see like daily

3563
03:03:49,720 --> 03:03:52,640
Speaker 13: wire posters talking about like four years ago.

3564
03:03:53,040 --> 03:03:56,680
Speaker 7: This is like debate me bro like blue tick twitter stuff.

3565
03:03:56,680 --> 03:03:56,880
Speaker 1: Now.

3566
03:03:57,000 --> 03:03:59,800
Speaker 13: Yeah, but even even talking about you know, like how

3567
03:03:59,879 --> 03:04:04,280
Speaker 13: like things like unconscious bias and systemic racism cannot be mentioned, right,

3568
03:04:04,879 --> 03:04:08,119
Speaker 13: those are things that specifically Ben Shapiro has like led

3569
03:04:08,160 --> 03:04:11,680
Speaker 13: their charge on attacking in mainstream in mainstream like political

3570
03:04:11,680 --> 03:04:14,720
Speaker 13: disagreement for a while now like arguing that systemic racism

3571
03:04:15,120 --> 03:04:18,119
Speaker 13: is not a thing. Yeah, and now you have orders

3572
03:04:18,160 --> 03:04:23,160
Speaker 13: specifically targeting systemic racism being used in AI outputs. So

3573
03:04:23,720 --> 03:04:26,880
Speaker 13: part of what this executive order actually seeks to do

3574
03:04:27,680 --> 03:04:30,000
Speaker 13: is make it so that the government can only use

3575
03:04:30,120 --> 03:04:32,680
Speaker 13: large language models that are developed with the principles of

3576
03:04:32,760 --> 03:04:39,119
Speaker 13: quote unquote truth seeking and ideological neutrality, requiring that these

3577
03:04:39,160 --> 03:04:43,359
Speaker 13: are nonpartisan tools that do not manipulate responses in favor

3578
03:04:43,400 --> 03:04:49,400
Speaker 13: of ideological dogmas such as DEEI. In effect, the order

3579
03:04:49,440 --> 03:04:53,760
Speaker 13: seeks to use government contracts as bribes to make companies

3580
03:04:54,720 --> 03:04:57,800
Speaker 13: ensure that their AIS are not woke, with the Trump

3581
03:04:57,840 --> 03:05:01,160
Speaker 13: administration serving as the judge of what is and isn't

3582
03:05:01,200 --> 03:05:04,840
Speaker 13: woke and threatening to pull contracts and force companies to

3583
03:05:04,840 --> 03:05:09,560
Speaker 13: pay cancelation fees if their AI language model is deemed

3584
03:05:09,600 --> 03:05:10,800
Speaker 13: to be too woke.

3585
03:05:11,360 --> 03:05:13,400
Speaker 4: I never want to hear the word woke again.

3586
03:05:14,160 --> 03:05:15,360
Speaker 2: I'm so fucking tired.

3587
03:05:15,760 --> 03:05:16,680
Speaker 11: That's exhausting.

3588
03:05:17,040 --> 03:05:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Jim Crow for the for the computer these

3589
03:05:19,879 --> 03:05:20,400
Speaker 1: ways what.

3590
03:05:20,320 --> 03:05:23,760
Speaker 13: This is like as a part of this AI action plan,

3591
03:05:24,520 --> 03:05:27,160
Speaker 13: Like they're like third or fourth main principle is quote

3592
03:05:27,200 --> 03:05:31,960
Speaker 13: unquote upholding free speech in frontier models. Updating federal procurement

3593
03:05:31,959 --> 03:05:34,879
Speaker 13: guidelines to ensure that the government only contracts with frontier

3594
03:05:35,080 --> 03:05:37,720
Speaker 13: large language model developers who ensure that their systems are

3595
03:05:37,760 --> 03:05:41,680
Speaker 13: objective and free from top down ideological bias. That's the

3596
03:05:41,720 --> 03:05:46,080
Speaker 13: opposite of free speech. Yeah, what do you We will

3597
03:05:46,240 --> 03:05:48,840
Speaker 13: like make sure that they only do the specific thing

3598
03:05:48,879 --> 03:05:51,800
Speaker 13: that we want, and we're calling that upholding free speech.

3599
03:05:51,959 --> 03:05:55,879
Speaker 1: Just say you want Mecca Hitler Rock just just.

3600
03:05:55,400 --> 03:05:59,039
Speaker 2: Just say he has Grock has indeed said.

3601
03:05:58,840 --> 03:06:00,000
Speaker 4: That I know.

3602
03:06:00,160 --> 03:06:03,480
Speaker 13: Oh, so that's the first executive order that I want

3603
03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:07,000
Speaker 13: to talk about. The next one is less brain roddy

3604
03:06:07,200 --> 03:06:11,240
Speaker 13: and more perrific, actually scary. Like I'm sure the WOKEI

3605
03:06:11,280 --> 03:06:14,360
Speaker 13: one will turn out to be bad, but this next

3606
03:06:14,360 --> 03:06:18,959
Speaker 13: one is like extremely extremely fascistic, and I don't use

3607
03:06:19,000 --> 03:06:24,000
Speaker 13: that word lightly. This order is titled ending Crime and

3608
03:06:24,080 --> 03:06:29,240
Speaker 13: Disorder on America's Streets. I'll start by quoting one paragraph quote,

3609
03:06:29,560 --> 03:06:35,400
Speaker 13: Endemic vagrancy, disorderly behavior, sudden confrontations, and violent attacks have

3610
03:06:35,480 --> 03:06:40,800
Speaker 13: made our cities unsafe. Shifting homeless individuals into long term

3611
03:06:40,920 --> 03:06:44,680
Speaker 13: institutional settings for humane treatment through the appropriate use of

3612
03:06:44,720 --> 03:06:49,520
Speaker 13: civil commitment, will restore public order. The Attorney General shall

3613
03:06:49,560 --> 03:06:54,080
Speaker 13: prioritize available funding to support the expansion of drug courts

3614
03:06:54,080 --> 03:06:58,840
Speaker 13: and mental health courts for individuals for which such diversion

3615
03:06:59,280 --> 03:07:01,119
Speaker 13: serves public safety.

3616
03:07:02,320 --> 03:07:06,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, this is bad, This is yeah some yeah again,

3617
03:07:06,320 --> 03:07:08,880
Speaker 17: people like to like to use fascism a lot, but yeah,

3618
03:07:08,879 --> 03:07:11,840
Speaker 17: this is some Nazi shit like this, this is.

3619
03:07:11,840 --> 03:07:14,320
Speaker 7: A thing that the Nazis did.

3620
03:07:14,640 --> 03:07:18,400
Speaker 13: Yep, let's get more into what this order outlines. So

3621
03:07:18,879 --> 03:07:21,720
Speaker 13: this executive order directs the Attorney General to reverse quote

3622
03:07:21,760 --> 03:07:27,760
Speaker 13: unquote judicial precedents prohibiting involuntary institutionalization and to seek the

3623
03:07:27,840 --> 03:07:31,800
Speaker 13: quote termination of consent decrees that impede the United States

3624
03:07:31,840 --> 03:07:35,120
Speaker 13: policy of encouraging the civil commitment of individuals with mental

3625
03:07:35,160 --> 03:07:40,080
Speaker 13: illnesses who pose risks to themselves or the public, or

3626
03:07:40,600 --> 03:07:45,120
Speaker 13: or are living on the streets. It starts by, you know,

3627
03:07:45,120 --> 03:07:47,480
Speaker 13: if someone's at risk to themselves, and then expands that

3628
03:07:47,760 --> 03:07:50,600
Speaker 13: to just include everybody if they're deemed to be at

3629
03:07:50,680 --> 03:07:54,039
Speaker 13: risk to the public or just happen to be living outside. Yeah,

3630
03:07:54,080 --> 03:07:58,440
Speaker 13: you can now get put in what is essentially Trump's

3631
03:07:58,480 --> 03:08:00,920
Speaker 13: new version of a seen asylums.

3632
03:08:01,080 --> 03:08:03,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really scary.

3633
03:08:03,959 --> 03:08:09,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think like we shouldn't not mention that a

3634
03:08:09,800 --> 03:08:14,040
Speaker 17: lot of this shit it's directly downstream from democratic mass

3635
03:08:14,120 --> 03:08:17,360
Speaker 17: in large cities and especially in California, pushing forrint voluntary

3636
03:08:17,360 --> 03:08:18,280
Speaker 17: commitment of vunt House.

3637
03:08:18,400 --> 03:08:21,040
Speaker 7: No, this is like Gavin Newsom's wet dream. Yes, yeah,

3638
03:08:21,080 --> 03:08:22,440
Speaker 7: this is Todd Gloria shit.

3639
03:08:22,800 --> 03:08:25,840
Speaker 2: Honestly, this is unfortunately very bipartisan when we are at

3640
03:08:25,879 --> 03:08:28,280
Speaker 2: least talk about the political elite, and to a sizable extent,

3641
03:08:28,320 --> 03:08:29,600
Speaker 2: when we're talking about the electorate.

3642
03:08:29,720 --> 03:08:29,879
Speaker 14: Right.

3643
03:08:30,000 --> 03:08:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an issue on which the left has

3644
03:08:33,120 --> 03:08:37,560
Speaker 2: catastrophically lost just like immigration. Unlike immigration, it is not

3645
03:08:37,640 --> 03:08:40,240
Speaker 2: an issue in which we're starting to see the pendulum

3646
03:08:40,320 --> 03:08:43,880
Speaker 2: swing back. Because yeah, number one, I mean, I guess

3647
03:08:43,959 --> 03:08:47,360
Speaker 2: we have not yet seen the kind of violence deployed

3648
03:08:47,360 --> 03:08:51,080
Speaker 2: against the houseless by agents of the state at scale

3649
03:08:51,200 --> 03:08:53,959
Speaker 2: in public that we're seeing right now on migrants. Right Like,

3650
03:08:54,000 --> 03:08:57,760
Speaker 2: there's not a federal agency going to war on the houseless.

3651
03:08:57,760 --> 03:09:01,000
Speaker 2: It's the same kind of violence that's existed previs But

3652
03:09:01,160 --> 03:09:04,400
Speaker 2: also like there's a huge amount of propaganda against this,

3653
03:09:04,560 --> 03:09:09,520
Speaker 2: Like every city business association you know, is constantly complaint

3654
03:09:09,520 --> 03:09:11,280
Speaker 2: because they see this as like, oh, this is why

3655
03:09:11,720 --> 03:09:14,520
Speaker 2: people don't want to come into stores anymore. It's the houseless,

3656
03:09:14,560 --> 03:09:16,600
Speaker 2: you know, it's not fucking Amazon or whatever.

3657
03:09:16,959 --> 03:09:18,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's absolute bullshit.

3658
03:09:19,000 --> 03:09:21,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean some of that might change, though, because

3659
03:09:22,000 --> 03:09:26,520
Speaker 13: Trump is seeking to mobilize federal resources to start doing enforcement. Yes,

3660
03:09:26,840 --> 03:09:30,320
Speaker 13: the order direction Trump's cabinet to be giving grants to

3661
03:09:30,480 --> 03:09:33,280
Speaker 13: state and local governments to help enact civil commitment and

3662
03:09:33,320 --> 03:09:37,320
Speaker 13: institutional treatment, with the priority of grants being directed to

3663
03:09:37,320 --> 03:09:41,080
Speaker 13: states and municipalities that already have and enforce strong anti

3664
03:09:41,120 --> 03:09:45,600
Speaker 13: homeless policies. The order allows for emergency federal law enforcement

3665
03:09:45,640 --> 03:09:48,879
Speaker 13: assistance funds to be used for encampment removal, and directs

3666
03:09:48,879 --> 03:09:50,920
Speaker 13: the Secretary of Health and Human Services to remove federal

3667
03:09:51,000 --> 03:09:55,320
Speaker 13: funding from quote unquote harm reduction or quote unquote safe

3668
03:09:55,400 --> 03:09:59,959
Speaker 13: consumption programs, as well as quote ending support for how

3669
03:10:00,080 --> 03:10:05,480
Speaker 13: using first policies that deprioritize accountability and fail to promote treatment, recovery,

3670
03:10:05,520 --> 03:10:08,760
Speaker 13: and self sufficiency. So not only are they increasing LA

3671
03:10:08,800 --> 03:10:13,120
Speaker 13: enforcement capacity to apprehend mentally ill or houses people and

3672
03:10:13,200 --> 03:10:17,039
Speaker 13: put them into institutional facilities, but they are cutting all

3673
03:10:17,080 --> 03:10:19,960
Speaker 13: federal funds from programs that are deemed to be harm

3674
03:10:20,000 --> 03:10:23,320
Speaker 13: reduction or safe consumption, which are programs that have been

3675
03:10:23,360 --> 03:10:27,120
Speaker 13: shown to work across the globe, as well as ending

3676
03:10:27,280 --> 03:10:31,720
Speaker 13: housing first policies, which is what most homeless advocates actually

3677
03:10:31,840 --> 03:10:34,160
Speaker 13: push for as a way to solve homelessness.

3678
03:10:34,400 --> 03:10:36,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, because there're evidence based and they work.

3679
03:10:36,959 --> 03:10:39,760
Speaker 13: The order also requires that recipients of federal housing and

3680
03:10:39,879 --> 03:10:44,720
Speaker 13: homelessness assistants to force participants who suffer from substance abuse, disorder,

3681
03:10:44,800 --> 03:10:49,560
Speaker 13: or serious mental illnesses into quote unquote treatment or mental

3682
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:54,320
Speaker 13: health services as a condition of participation unquote, and that

3683
03:10:54,320 --> 03:10:56,720
Speaker 13: the recipients of these federal funds are now required to

3684
03:10:56,800 --> 03:11:01,000
Speaker 13: collect quote unquote health related information from everyone who has

3685
03:11:01,040 --> 03:11:04,000
Speaker 13: provided assistance and is required to share that data with

3686
03:11:04,160 --> 03:11:07,920
Speaker 13: law enforcement quote in circumstances permitted by law.

3687
03:11:08,240 --> 03:11:09,600
Speaker 4: Don't love that. That's horrible.

3688
03:11:09,760 --> 03:11:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really just not align we went across. That's

3689
03:11:12,959 --> 03:11:14,199
Speaker 1: so scary, yep.

3690
03:11:14,360 --> 03:11:19,080
Speaker 13: The weaponization of health data for law enforcement, yes services, Yeah.

3691
03:11:19,160 --> 03:11:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And unfortunately it's exactly the thing that like for

3692
03:11:22,560 --> 03:11:26,360
Speaker 2: years advocates for mental health care have been trying to

3693
03:11:26,680 --> 03:11:30,200
Speaker 2: get across, like, hey, it's okay to go in to

3694
03:11:30,280 --> 03:11:32,640
Speaker 2: seek treatment, like this is stuff, isn't going to be

3695
03:11:32,680 --> 03:11:33,680
Speaker 2: weaponized against you.

3696
03:11:33,879 --> 03:11:35,160
Speaker 7: And that's not true anymore.

3697
03:11:35,200 --> 03:11:37,800
Speaker 2: Like the degree to which, outside of the actual danger

3698
03:11:37,920 --> 03:11:40,680
Speaker 2: of law enforcement getting this data and using it, the

3699
03:11:41,320 --> 03:11:45,840
Speaker 2: setback to mental health care to people feeling having any

3700
03:11:45,920 --> 03:11:49,680
Speaker 2: chance of feeling safe to pursue it is like incomprehensible,

3701
03:11:49,760 --> 03:11:51,080
Speaker 2: Like it's it's so bad.

3702
03:11:51,360 --> 03:11:55,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, And not only are they seeking to go after users,

3703
03:11:55,840 --> 03:12:00,840
Speaker 13: the recipients of federal Housing and Homelessness assistance that operate

3704
03:12:01,080 --> 03:12:04,320
Speaker 13: drug injection sites or quote unquote safe conception sites will

3705
03:12:04,320 --> 03:12:07,400
Speaker 13: be reviewed by the Attorney General for violation of federal

3706
03:12:07,480 --> 03:12:11,800
Speaker 13: law and bring civil or criminal action in appropriate cases,

3707
03:12:12,160 --> 03:12:15,879
Speaker 13: literally going after people who try to create environments where

3708
03:12:16,000 --> 03:12:17,920
Speaker 13: people who use drugs can do so in a method

3709
03:12:18,000 --> 03:12:19,199
Speaker 13: that will not kill them.

3710
03:12:19,400 --> 03:12:19,640
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3711
03:12:19,760 --> 03:12:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, people who are handing out clean needles, you know,

3712
03:12:22,360 --> 03:12:24,520
Speaker 2: safe injection sites, that sort of thing, any kind of

3713
03:12:24,520 --> 03:12:25,640
Speaker 2: harm reduction.

3714
03:12:25,560 --> 03:12:27,640
Speaker 13: Which will now be under investigation by the Attorney General.

3715
03:12:28,200 --> 03:12:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, which is going to get people killed, as

3716
03:12:31,200 --> 03:12:34,360
Speaker 2: going to imprison people who have been doing nothing but

3717
03:12:34,440 --> 03:12:37,760
Speaker 2: helping other people. Like, it's just comprehensively a nightmare.

3718
03:12:38,040 --> 03:12:41,840
Speaker 17: It's going to lead to more communicable diseases spreading that

3719
03:12:42,000 --> 03:12:44,920
Speaker 17: we don't like. Some of these safe injection sites have

3720
03:12:44,959 --> 03:12:48,039
Speaker 17: prevented spreading, right, needle exchanges have prevented When we combine

3721
03:12:48,040 --> 03:12:50,000
Speaker 17: it with our f case stuff like, this is going

3722
03:12:50,040 --> 03:12:52,000
Speaker 17: to be a major public health issue on top of

3723
03:12:52,080 --> 03:12:52,800
Speaker 17: everything else.

3724
03:12:53,600 --> 03:12:56,959
Speaker 13: So on top of expanding drug courts and mental health courts.

3725
03:12:57,840 --> 03:13:00,920
Speaker 13: I will will end with one final quote the order quote.

3726
03:13:01,200 --> 03:13:05,080
Speaker 13: They will ensure that homeless individuals arrested for federal crimes

3727
03:13:05,080 --> 03:13:09,320
Speaker 13: are evaluated to determine whether they are sexually dangerous persons

3728
03:13:09,959 --> 03:13:14,520
Speaker 13: and certified accordingly for civil commitment. And finally, Trump's cabinet

3729
03:13:14,640 --> 03:13:18,800
Speaker 13: is directed to quote assess federal resources to determine whether

3730
03:13:18,879 --> 03:13:21,720
Speaker 13: they may be directed towards ensuring that detainees with serious

3731
03:13:21,760 --> 03:13:24,040
Speaker 13: mental illnesses are not released into the public because of

3732
03:13:24,080 --> 03:13:27,840
Speaker 13: the lack of forensic bed capacity at appropriate local, state,

3733
03:13:28,280 --> 03:13:32,640
Speaker 13: and federal jails or hospitals unquote. It remains to be

3734
03:13:32,680 --> 03:13:35,680
Speaker 13: seen the scale in which this will be implemented. Usually

3735
03:13:35,680 --> 03:13:39,480
Speaker 13: these orders have a series of months in which the

3736
03:13:39,520 --> 03:13:44,040
Speaker 13: cabinet members will then propose actual implementation policies that then

3737
03:13:44,120 --> 03:13:48,400
Speaker 13: can be implemented across the country. But certainly what is

3738
03:13:48,440 --> 03:13:51,320
Speaker 13: in the order itself is incredibly worrying.

3739
03:13:51,959 --> 03:13:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, we probably shouldn't let this guy become president again.

3740
03:13:56,360 --> 03:13:56,600
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3741
03:13:57,400 --> 03:14:00,120
Speaker 13: Oh, well, do you know what we should do right now? Oh?

3742
03:14:00,200 --> 03:14:03,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, ads, discoda, ads, sure have fun with that.

3743
03:14:04,240 --> 03:14:22,080
Speaker 18: Everyone talking of shouldn't have let that guy become president again.

3744
03:14:22,360 --> 03:14:24,879
Speaker 18: One of the reasons that I did become president again

3745
03:14:25,040 --> 03:14:28,720
Speaker 18: is because the Democrats were incapable of fielding a candidate

3746
03:14:28,720 --> 03:14:31,199
Speaker 18: who could say genocide bad.

3747
03:14:31,680 --> 03:14:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. That might have helped.

3748
03:14:33,280 --> 03:14:36,080
Speaker 7: I mean, it's a fucking low bar and they failed

3749
03:14:36,080 --> 03:14:36,600
Speaker 7: to clear it.

3750
03:14:36,600 --> 03:14:37,400
Speaker 2: It might have helped.

3751
03:14:37,600 --> 03:14:41,360
Speaker 13: It might have helped. According to new data from New York,

3752
03:14:41,480 --> 03:14:45,000
Speaker 13: where two thirds or more of New York Democratic primary

3753
03:14:45,040 --> 03:14:48,880
Speaker 13: voters agree with Zora Mondonney's positions on Israel and arresting

3754
03:14:48,959 --> 03:14:52,039
Speaker 13: Benjamina Yahoo and the fifty seven percent say that they

3755
03:14:52,120 --> 03:14:55,000
Speaker 13: might oppost Democrats who do not endorse Mandanni for mayor. Yeah,

3756
03:14:55,000 --> 03:14:58,600
Speaker 13: because so it seems like, yeah, maybe the Democrats should

3757
03:14:58,600 --> 03:15:00,520
Speaker 13: have done something about that. It seems like the majority

3758
03:15:00,560 --> 03:15:01,720
Speaker 13: of their base wants that.

3759
03:15:02,240 --> 03:15:04,000
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not one of those. I always hate it

3760
03:15:04,000 --> 03:15:07,160
Speaker 2: when people like try to reduce the loss to one thing,

3761
03:15:07,240 --> 03:15:11,320
Speaker 2: because there's a number of but like one like Michigan.

3762
03:15:11,400 --> 03:15:17,000
Speaker 2: We can probably blame the loss of Michigan on Pamala's

3763
03:15:17,080 --> 03:15:20,160
Speaker 2: failures to call Gaza a genocide or to take any

3764
03:15:20,240 --> 03:15:23,600
Speaker 2: kind of a stance separating her from Biden on that matter. Right, Like,

3765
03:15:23,640 --> 03:15:26,280
Speaker 2: there's a decent amount of evidence to suggest that maybe

3766
03:15:26,320 --> 03:15:29,520
Speaker 2: other states, you know, other things went wrong, but like this,

3767
03:15:29,760 --> 03:15:33,120
Speaker 2: that was a significant reason why the Democrats failed.

3768
03:15:33,320 --> 03:15:33,520
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3769
03:15:33,600 --> 03:15:36,080
Speaker 17: Look at the way, if we're about to discuss how

3770
03:15:36,160 --> 03:15:39,279
Speaker 17: the entirety of Canada while we have been recording this

3771
03:15:39,320 --> 03:15:41,800
Speaker 17: is announced that it is joining the UK and France

3772
03:15:41,879 --> 03:15:46,400
Speaker 17: and plans to conditionally recognize a Palestinian state. Yeah, and

3773
03:15:46,560 --> 03:15:49,840
Speaker 17: the reason that is happening is because Israel's genocide in

3774
03:15:49,879 --> 03:15:54,480
Speaker 17: Gaza is continuing. Yeah, July has been the deadliest month

3775
03:15:54,600 --> 03:15:57,280
Speaker 17: for the past year and a half. One person who's

3776
03:15:57,320 --> 03:16:00,199
Speaker 17: died every twelve minutes. One hundred and ninety nine people

3777
03:16:00,200 --> 03:16:02,320
Speaker 17: have died every day, four hundred and one of them

3778
03:16:02,560 --> 03:16:07,119
Speaker 17: have been injured. We saw this week nineteen people died

3779
03:16:07,160 --> 03:16:10,440
Speaker 17: of starvation. None of these people are dying because of

3780
03:16:10,480 --> 03:16:12,640
Speaker 17: a famine that's caused by the weather or some other

3781
03:16:12,720 --> 03:16:16,080
Speaker 17: natural cause. Right, this is entirely a choice, and it's

3782
03:16:16,240 --> 03:16:19,320
Speaker 17: made by people in the Israeli state, very chiefly by

3783
03:16:19,400 --> 03:16:23,800
Speaker 17: Benjamin net Yahoo to quote Netyaho. Israel has been forced

3784
03:16:24,040 --> 03:16:27,160
Speaker 17: to allow some aid into the Strip, but only a

3785
03:16:27,360 --> 03:16:29,960
Speaker 17: tiny fraction of the required aid has made its way in.

3786
03:16:30,840 --> 03:16:34,359
Speaker 17: One in five children in Gaza is suffering from acute maultnutrition.

3787
03:16:34,920 --> 03:16:38,520
Speaker 17: That figure has tripled since last month, according to the

3788
03:16:38,560 --> 03:16:41,600
Speaker 17: World Health Organization. Not only is there not enough food,

3789
03:16:41,720 --> 03:16:44,400
Speaker 17: but there are also not enough medical supplies to treat

3790
03:16:44,480 --> 03:16:48,320
Speaker 17: people with acute malnutrition. Right when somebody is acutely malnourished,

3791
03:16:48,320 --> 03:16:50,959
Speaker 17: you can't just like hand them a sandwich and fix

3792
03:16:51,000 --> 03:16:51,600
Speaker 17: a problem.

3793
03:16:52,240 --> 03:16:55,840
Speaker 2: This was a major problem when liberating the concentration camps

3794
03:16:55,840 --> 03:16:58,320
Speaker 2: at the end of World War Two, American soldiers would

3795
03:16:58,360 --> 03:17:02,120
Speaker 2: see these peall who were just as I mean, can

3796
03:17:02,240 --> 03:17:06,120
Speaker 2: you've seen pictures of Auschwitz survivors and stuff and just

3797
03:17:06,240 --> 03:17:10,160
Speaker 2: act with immediate human compassion and give them whatever they wanted, right,

3798
03:17:10,560 --> 03:17:14,199
Speaker 2: And then people got sick and died because you literally can't.

3799
03:17:14,280 --> 03:17:14,680
Speaker 7: You have to.

3800
03:17:14,760 --> 03:17:17,520
Speaker 2: There's a very specific way when someone is that far

3801
03:17:17,560 --> 03:17:21,120
Speaker 2: gone that you have to slowly renourish them whatever.

3802
03:17:21,240 --> 03:17:26,400
Speaker 17: Yeah, refeed them, ensure that they are maintaining adequate hydration levels, right,

3803
03:17:26,760 --> 03:17:31,359
Speaker 17: therapeutic formula for babies that are malnourished.

3804
03:17:31,360 --> 03:17:34,279
Speaker 2: It's more, it's I think there's this like mystic understanding

3805
03:17:34,320 --> 03:17:36,000
Speaker 2: that like, oh, starving people are just hungry, so you

3806
03:17:36,040 --> 03:17:37,760
Speaker 2: just feed them, and like past a certain point, No,

3807
03:17:37,800 --> 03:17:40,360
Speaker 2: they're not just hungry. Something else is going.

3808
03:17:40,560 --> 03:17:44,280
Speaker 17: Their bodies are failing and beginning to die, and that

3809
03:17:44,320 --> 03:17:47,120
Speaker 17: requires medical attention because they have a very serious medical condition.

3810
03:17:47,680 --> 03:17:52,440
Speaker 17: Those medical supplies are not getting into Gaza. The Integrated

3811
03:17:52,520 --> 03:17:56,160
Speaker 17: Food Security Phase Classification, generally referred to as the IPC

3812
03:17:56,920 --> 03:17:59,680
Speaker 17: stud an alert for what it calls, quote the worst

3813
03:17:59,720 --> 03:18:03,600
Speaker 17: case scenario of famine in Gaza this week. In their alert,

3814
03:18:03,680 --> 03:18:06,760
Speaker 17: they said, quote, Over twenty thousand children have been admitted

3815
03:18:06,760 --> 03:18:09,520
Speaker 17: for treatment for acute malnutrition between April and mid July,

3816
03:18:09,920 --> 03:18:14,160
Speaker 17: with more than three thousand severely malnourished. Hospitals have reported

3817
03:18:14,200 --> 03:18:16,760
Speaker 17: a rapid increase in hunger related deaths of children at

3818
03:18:16,760 --> 03:18:19,520
Speaker 17: a five years of age, with at least sixteen reported

3819
03:18:19,560 --> 03:18:23,160
Speaker 17: deaths since the seventeenth of July. That's not really much

3820
03:18:23,720 --> 03:18:25,080
Speaker 17: that I think we can say about this other than

3821
03:18:25,320 --> 03:18:31,879
Speaker 17: it's absolutely despicable and disgusting as a result of Israel

3822
03:18:32,560 --> 03:18:36,039
Speaker 17: carrying out genocide in the open. The UK, France, and

3823
03:18:36,080 --> 03:18:39,039
Speaker 17: Canada have indicated, as I said, they're willingness recognize a

3824
03:18:39,120 --> 03:18:41,480
Speaker 17: Palestine new state with some conditions.

3825
03:18:42,560 --> 03:18:43,720
Speaker 7: Statehood will not.

3826
03:18:43,840 --> 03:18:47,360
Speaker 17: Feed these children, rightly, these people will be dead long

3827
03:18:47,440 --> 03:18:50,840
Speaker 17: before the state is recognized in US. Something changes.

3828
03:18:51,440 --> 03:18:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, The whole recognizing statehood for me is less meaningful

3829
03:18:56,720 --> 03:18:59,840
Speaker 2: because I care about states, than it is as a

3830
03:18:59,879 --> 03:19:03,240
Speaker 2: symbol of the fact that France, you know, and the

3831
03:19:03,360 --> 03:19:06,920
Speaker 2: UK and an increasing number of nations who were not

3832
03:19:07,520 --> 03:19:11,119
Speaker 2: like imagining them ten years ago, like taking the sense

3833
03:19:11,160 --> 03:19:14,320
Speaker 2: of being as critical of Israel as they are, would

3834
03:19:14,320 --> 03:19:16,480
Speaker 2: have been a stretch, right, would have been difficult to

3835
03:19:16,560 --> 03:19:20,959
Speaker 2: comprehend and I think what it really does showcase is

3836
03:19:21,120 --> 03:19:28,959
Speaker 2: how rapidly international opinion has changed and the very dangerous

3837
03:19:29,000 --> 03:19:32,520
Speaker 2: situation Israel has gotten itself into. Where I don't think

3838
03:19:32,560 --> 03:19:34,960
Speaker 2: it is a matter of immediate danger because the weapons

3839
03:19:35,000 --> 03:19:37,039
Speaker 2: aren't going to stop flowing and no one is going

3840
03:19:37,040 --> 03:19:42,680
Speaker 2: to stop them militarily, but they are sabotaging the ground

3841
03:19:42,840 --> 03:19:48,400
Speaker 2: underneath themselves, and I do think I mean, maybe this

3842
03:19:48,520 --> 03:19:52,760
Speaker 2: is me being unreasonably hopeful here, but yeah, like this

3843
03:19:52,920 --> 03:19:56,000
Speaker 2: is I think they're setting up their own downfall here,

3844
03:19:56,160 --> 03:19:58,879
Speaker 2: you know, not quick enough to save any of these lives,

3845
03:19:58,959 --> 03:20:02,640
Speaker 2: but like this is not a good position for them

3846
03:20:02,680 --> 03:20:05,840
Speaker 2: to be in a country that's this dependent upon foreign trade,

3847
03:20:06,040 --> 03:20:10,360
Speaker 2: upon foreign weapons, upon foreign support for its survival. Like

3848
03:20:10,800 --> 03:20:12,560
Speaker 2: they're sabotaging themselves.

3849
03:20:12,640 --> 03:20:16,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, they're becoming a parias state, far too slowly given

3850
03:20:16,560 --> 03:20:19,160
Speaker 17: what's happened over the last couple of years, but it's happening.

3851
03:20:19,720 --> 03:20:21,800
Speaker 17: I'll just finish, I guess by saying that Israel has

3852
03:20:21,840 --> 03:20:25,120
Speaker 17: agreed to make tactical pauses, which is I don't know

3853
03:20:25,120 --> 03:20:27,959
Speaker 17: what that really means to allow AID to enter The

3854
03:20:28,080 --> 03:20:32,720
Speaker 17: IPC report suggesting media actions to protect life, but it

3855
03:20:32,760 --> 03:20:35,879
Speaker 17: concludes a quote, none of this is possible unless there

3856
03:20:35,920 --> 03:20:39,160
Speaker 17: is a ceasefire, and there is no sign of that

3857
03:20:39,440 --> 03:20:44,560
Speaker 17: immediate future. Let's talk about immigration, shall we something something

3858
03:20:44,600 --> 03:20:47,440
Speaker 17: that is also pretty much a downer. I guess the

3859
03:20:47,440 --> 03:20:50,959
Speaker 17: State Department is rolled back it's visa interview waiver. This

3860
03:20:51,080 --> 03:20:53,280
Speaker 17: was a pandemic era thing right that people didn't have

3861
03:20:53,320 --> 03:20:56,480
Speaker 17: to come into the consulate and actually do an interview

3862
03:20:56,520 --> 03:20:59,720
Speaker 17: with a physical human for their visa. This will result

3863
03:20:59,720 --> 03:21:03,200
Speaker 17: in assive delays at consulates around the world and will

3864
03:21:03,240 --> 03:21:06,600
Speaker 17: mean that visas are inaccessible for some people entirely right,

3865
03:21:06,879 --> 03:21:10,960
Speaker 17: because getting to a consulate alone is a barrier for them.

3866
03:21:11,040 --> 03:21:14,600
Speaker 17: Rate or another expense, and it's a risky expense if

3867
03:21:14,640 --> 03:21:18,240
Speaker 17: you think you might be turned down. The government has

3868
03:21:18,280 --> 03:21:22,320
Speaker 17: been canceling hearings, according to NBC Miami, of people in

3869
03:21:22,320 --> 03:21:27,000
Speaker 17: the Everglades Detention Facility aka Alligator Alcatraz, right, it makes

3870
03:21:27,000 --> 03:21:30,240
Speaker 17: are also being denied the right to meet with their attorneys.

3871
03:21:30,840 --> 03:21:34,640
Speaker 17: The government asserted that everyone there has a final removal order. However,

3872
03:21:34,879 --> 03:21:37,440
Speaker 17: at least one attorney with two clients there the NBC

3873
03:21:37,480 --> 03:21:39,640
Speaker 17: Miami spoke to said that this was not the case

3874
03:21:39,640 --> 03:21:42,240
Speaker 17: for their clients. They don't have final removal orders, but

3875
03:21:42,320 --> 03:21:44,560
Speaker 17: nonetheless they are not able.

3876
03:21:44,320 --> 03:21:46,440
Speaker 7: To access their due process rights.

3877
03:21:46,920 --> 03:21:50,199
Speaker 17: There is a lawsuit challenging this and many other issues

3878
03:21:50,200 --> 03:21:51,920
Speaker 17: at the detention center that will be held on the

3879
03:21:52,000 --> 03:21:57,680
Speaker 17: eighteenth of August. Talking of removals, we are beginning to

3880
03:21:57,800 --> 03:22:01,400
Speaker 17: see first hand accounts from the Venas Whalen people who

3881
03:22:01,400 --> 03:22:05,680
Speaker 17: were detained as Scott two hundred and thirty Venezuelan detainees

3882
03:22:05,720 --> 03:22:09,920
Speaker 17: there were traded with Venezuela in a three way trade

3883
03:22:10,440 --> 03:22:13,000
Speaker 17: for the US citizen ents detained in Venezuela.

3884
03:22:13,120 --> 03:22:15,119
Speaker 1: Right, three way trade, I.

3885
03:22:15,080 --> 03:22:18,400
Speaker 17: Mean very clearly the people in Seccot were really under

3886
03:22:18,560 --> 03:22:22,760
Speaker 17: US custard, yes, right, so it's just a workaround for

3887
03:22:22,800 --> 03:22:23,800
Speaker 17: a direct trade.

3888
03:22:24,120 --> 03:22:26,800
Speaker 2: Well, or at least I mean they were under the

3889
03:22:26,800 --> 03:22:29,959
Speaker 2: custody of a US contractor, right, Like, that's I think

3890
03:22:30,000 --> 03:22:32,800
Speaker 2: the accurate way to describe this. Yeah, yes, I think

3891
03:22:32,840 --> 03:22:33,600
Speaker 2: that's probably yeah.

3892
03:22:33,680 --> 03:22:36,760
Speaker 17: Yeah, Like the US had control over their comings and goings,

3893
03:22:37,120 --> 03:22:39,440
Speaker 17: as it's demonstrated by this prisoner exchange.

3894
03:22:39,520 --> 03:22:39,800
Speaker 5: Right.

3895
03:22:39,959 --> 03:22:42,760
Speaker 17: These reports indicate that the plane landed and immediately Salvatory

3896
03:22:42,800 --> 03:22:45,520
Speaker 17: and police entered and beat the men so severely that

3897
03:22:45,600 --> 03:22:48,880
Speaker 17: flight attendants on the plane cried, an ice agent told

3898
03:22:48,920 --> 03:22:51,800
Speaker 17: them in Spanish quote, this would teach you to enter

3899
03:22:51,879 --> 03:22:54,760
Speaker 17: our country illegally. Many of the menahed to point out

3900
03:22:54,760 --> 03:22:57,400
Speaker 17: did not enter the country between ports of entry or

3901
03:22:57,440 --> 03:23:01,600
Speaker 17: without inspection. They entered via CBP, the only legal way

3902
03:23:01,600 --> 03:23:04,000
Speaker 17: for them to claim asylum at that time. The men

3903
03:23:04,040 --> 03:23:07,200
Speaker 17: said they were beaten, kicked, and shot with rubber pellets.

3904
03:23:07,640 --> 03:23:10,920
Speaker 17: They were never allowed outside, and guards would mock them

3905
03:23:10,920 --> 03:23:13,480
Speaker 17: and refuse to tell them the time when they asked.

3906
03:23:14,040 --> 03:23:17,800
Speaker 17: Several of them mentioned a fellow detainee who began cutting himself,

3907
03:23:18,360 --> 03:23:20,920
Speaker 17: writing messages on the wall in his own blood.

3908
03:23:21,320 --> 03:23:23,080
Speaker 7: Those messages include.

3909
03:23:22,959 --> 03:23:26,840
Speaker 17: Stop hitting us, we are fathers, we are brothers, we

3910
03:23:26,879 --> 03:23:30,200
Speaker 17: are innocent people. Shortly before their release, they say they

3911
03:23:30,240 --> 03:23:33,920
Speaker 17: were treated better, allowed to shower and shave, and given medicine.

3912
03:23:34,400 --> 03:23:36,560
Speaker 17: When one of the men returned, his neighbors clapped together

3913
03:23:36,640 --> 03:23:39,640
Speaker 17: to raise twenty bucks for his mother to decorate the

3914
03:23:39,640 --> 03:23:42,279
Speaker 17: house and make him a meal of chicken, rice and plantains.

3915
03:23:42,920 --> 03:23:44,800
Speaker 17: That one was particularly hard for me to read for

3916
03:23:44,840 --> 03:23:47,400
Speaker 17: some reason, because that specific meal is one I've eaten

3917
03:23:47,440 --> 03:23:49,960
Speaker 17: with the people I live with in Kakas, the people

3918
03:23:50,000 --> 03:23:51,480
Speaker 17: I was with and at Bari and gap.

3919
03:23:52,640 --> 03:23:53,959
Speaker 7: It just seemed very personal to me.

3920
03:23:54,560 --> 03:23:56,879
Speaker 17: They also noted that many of the men were detained,

3921
03:23:56,920 --> 03:24:00,320
Speaker 17: paryed and read the Bible. They used food packaging and

3922
03:24:00,400 --> 03:24:03,720
Speaker 17: even food to make dice and playing cards to play games.

3923
03:24:04,600 --> 03:24:06,320
Speaker 17: The things that I read in this are actually, like,

3924
03:24:06,360 --> 03:24:09,760
Speaker 17: really heartbreaking, because I've seen folks from Venezuela go through

3925
03:24:09,879 --> 03:24:13,560
Speaker 17: really horrific things. Right, they were in the Daryan Gap

3926
03:24:13,560 --> 03:24:15,120
Speaker 17: when I was in a Daryan gap. I've seen him

3927
03:24:15,120 --> 03:24:19,720
Speaker 17: in outdoor attention. I've also spent time living in Venezuela

3928
03:24:20,120 --> 03:24:23,240
Speaker 17: and throughout that like people, Venezuelan people have shown an

3929
03:24:23,280 --> 03:24:26,560
Speaker 17: incredible capacity to continue to smile and have joy and

3930
03:24:26,600 --> 03:24:29,080
Speaker 17: have a joke and have a laugh. So like seeing

3931
03:24:29,080 --> 03:24:33,080
Speaker 17: these men, though thoroughly beaten down by the Salvadarrian state

3932
03:24:33,440 --> 03:24:37,000
Speaker 17: is really hard. I'd encourage you all to read the

3933
03:24:37,040 --> 03:24:40,279
Speaker 17: pro public apiece, which I will link in the show notes.

3934
03:24:40,600 --> 03:24:43,879
Speaker 17: But yeah, it's yeah, it's as bad as we expected

3935
03:24:43,879 --> 03:24:45,920
Speaker 17: it to be. Right Like, I don't think for a

3936
03:24:46,000 --> 03:24:48,800
Speaker 17: minute that else Albert or expected them to leave. So

3937
03:24:48,800 --> 03:24:51,320
Speaker 17: it treated them like I'm sure it treats everybody else there.

3938
03:24:51,600 --> 03:24:54,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, right like that, that's what you have to assume,

3939
03:24:54,240 --> 03:24:59,480
Speaker 2: and that's why it's important not to limit the discussion

3940
03:24:59,720 --> 03:25:04,320
Speaker 2: or the anger to the case of you know, the

3941
03:25:04,400 --> 03:25:06,959
Speaker 2: Garcia and you know this couple of people who are

3942
03:25:07,120 --> 03:25:09,520
Speaker 2: quote unquote obviously.

3943
03:25:08,959 --> 03:25:10,680
Speaker 7: In essence individual people.

3944
03:25:10,800 --> 03:25:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, like nobody should be in Seacot and quite frankly,

3945
03:25:15,080 --> 03:25:18,480
Speaker 2: Hunter Biden's right, you know we should we should invade

3946
03:25:18,480 --> 03:25:20,400
Speaker 2: El Salvador if that's what it takes to close this

3947
03:25:20,520 --> 03:25:25,400
Speaker 2: place down. Yeah, like fuck them, like it's it's I mean,

3948
03:25:25,760 --> 03:25:28,280
Speaker 2: or someone should invade us. I don't fucking know whatever

3949
03:25:28,320 --> 03:25:30,720
Speaker 2: it takes to stop this shit, but like it's unacceptable.

3950
03:25:30,800 --> 03:25:33,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's inhumane. Like a world where this exists is

3951
03:25:33,400 --> 03:25:34,360
Speaker 7: not a world we should want.

3952
03:25:34,560 --> 03:25:34,640
Speaker 5: No.

3953
03:25:35,360 --> 03:25:38,840
Speaker 17: I guess maybe I'll end with some good news and

3954
03:25:38,879 --> 03:25:39,720
Speaker 17: a little fundraiser.

3955
03:25:39,760 --> 03:25:41,400
Speaker 7: I people want to donate. Good news?

3956
03:25:41,480 --> 03:25:41,640
Speaker 9: Is it?

3957
03:25:41,680 --> 03:25:45,160
Speaker 17: A judge has ordered the release of kilmar Abrego. I

3958
03:25:45,160 --> 03:25:47,480
Speaker 17: guess he prefers to just use the first part of

3959
03:25:47,520 --> 03:25:50,960
Speaker 17: his last name, right, Spanish last names come from your

3960
03:25:51,000 --> 03:25:51,600
Speaker 17: mother and father.

3961
03:25:51,720 --> 03:25:52,440
Speaker 7: Some people used both.

3962
03:25:53,000 --> 03:25:55,640
Speaker 2: Want Oh I hadn't caught that actually, Thank you, James.

3963
03:25:55,440 --> 03:25:56,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, you are welcome.

3964
03:25:57,360 --> 03:26:00,120
Speaker 17: Judge Genie ordered that he'd be returned to Mary and

3965
03:26:00,720 --> 03:26:03,920
Speaker 17: not be immediately detained by ICE on his release, and

3966
03:26:03,959 --> 03:26:06,280
Speaker 17: the seventy two hours notice be given if they try

3967
03:26:06,320 --> 03:26:10,080
Speaker 17: to remove him. I have seen reporting that says she

3968
03:26:10,160 --> 03:26:11,720
Speaker 17: has ordered that he can't be deported.

3969
03:26:11,760 --> 03:26:12,800
Speaker 7: That's not true.

3970
03:26:13,360 --> 03:26:16,120
Speaker 17: She ordered that he have his due process rights if

3971
03:26:16,120 --> 03:26:19,480
Speaker 17: they attempt to remove him right. I've also seen reporting

3972
03:26:19,480 --> 03:26:21,080
Speaker 17: that he is like out and about on the street.

3973
03:26:21,560 --> 03:26:25,160
Speaker 17: That is not true. A Tennessee judge did deny the

3974
03:26:25,200 --> 03:26:28,279
Speaker 17: government's attempts to detain him while he awaits criminal trial,

3975
03:26:28,560 --> 03:26:30,560
Speaker 17: but at the request of his legal team, his release

3976
03:26:30,600 --> 03:26:33,960
Speaker 17: has been stayed by thirty days. I believe this is

3977
03:26:34,000 --> 03:26:37,040
Speaker 17: to prevent ICE grabbing him and deporting him immediately when

3978
03:26:37,080 --> 03:26:40,080
Speaker 17: he's released or thereafter, right until they've got their clarification

3979
03:26:40,080 --> 03:26:40,560
Speaker 17: from judges.

3980
03:26:40,680 --> 03:26:40,920
Speaker 7: Enis.

3981
03:26:41,360 --> 03:26:44,680
Speaker 17: This comes after Trump administration or the DOJ has failed

3982
03:26:44,720 --> 03:26:47,000
Speaker 17: to persuade any of for federal judges that he was

3983
03:26:47,040 --> 03:26:50,800
Speaker 17: a leader of MS thirteen. His lawyers have also asked

3984
03:26:50,800 --> 03:26:54,480
Speaker 17: a judge to stop DHS posting about this and prejudicing

3985
03:26:54,520 --> 03:26:59,440
Speaker 17: a potential jury pool. So, at least in this one case,

3986
03:27:00,040 --> 03:27:02,199
Speaker 17: and it is moving closer to being back with his family,

3987
03:27:02,840 --> 03:27:07,120
Speaker 17: Let's talk about a fundraiser and then we can finish up. Yeah,

3988
03:27:07,400 --> 03:27:09,959
Speaker 17: So I want to talk about Hose Jiron and I

3989
03:27:10,000 --> 03:27:12,760
Speaker 17: will just read here from the fundraiser page. Jose was

3990
03:27:12,800 --> 03:27:15,600
Speaker 17: taken from his family and detained O Ti Meser Detention

3991
03:27:15,720 --> 03:27:19,680
Speaker 17: Center over thirteen months ago. Like many friends, parents and

3992
03:27:19,720 --> 03:27:23,800
Speaker 17: siblings in prison at OMDC, Josse has received no medical

3993
03:27:23,840 --> 03:27:28,360
Speaker 17: care despite having concerning symptoms for colon cancer. Visibly in

3994
03:27:28,480 --> 03:27:32,000
Speaker 17: pain during his previous hearing, Jose showed the judge Ajar

3995
03:27:32,240 --> 03:27:34,600
Speaker 17: with one point five to two inches of blood that

3996
03:27:34,680 --> 03:27:37,160
Speaker 17: he reported had come out of his rectum. No one

3997
03:27:37,200 --> 03:27:40,280
Speaker 17: should have to supper these indignities. If you would like

3998
03:27:40,360 --> 03:27:44,080
Speaker 17: to support Josse, you can go to give butter dot

3999
03:27:44,080 --> 03:27:50,680
Speaker 17: com slash free Horse Jiron. That's fie Jo S E

4000
03:27:51,120 --> 03:27:53,440
Speaker 17: G I R O N.

4001
03:27:54,760 --> 03:27:58,160
Speaker 7: I think that's all for us. We reported the news.

4002
03:27:58,640 --> 03:28:00,480
Speaker 2: Goodbye, we report the news.

4003
03:28:05,600 --> 03:28:05,760
Speaker 5: Hey.

4004
03:28:05,920 --> 03:28:09,040
Speaker 2: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from

4005
03:28:09,040 --> 03:28:10,760
Speaker 2: now until the heat death of the universe.

4006
03:28:11,480 --> 03:28:12,080
Speaker 7: It could happen.

4007
03:28:12,120 --> 03:28:14,520
Speaker 13: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more

4008
03:28:14,560 --> 03:28:18,840
Speaker 13: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonmedia dot com,

4009
03:28:19,000 --> 03:28:22,080
Speaker 13: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

4010
03:28:22,160 --> 03:28:25,000
Speaker 13: or wherever you listen to podcasts you can now find

4011
03:28:25,040 --> 03:28:28,040
Speaker 13: sources for it could happen here. Listened directly in episode descriptions.

4012
03:28:28,400 --> 03:28:29,200
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening,