1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: cult or a high control group. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power 4 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: that you'd like to share. 5 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three 6 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: four seven eight six Trust. 7 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight. 8 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com. 9 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 3: Trust me. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 4: Trust me. 11 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 5: I'm like a swat person. 12 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 6: I've never lived. To you, I've never had a live. 13 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers, 14 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 2: don't ho ho ho. 15 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 6: Welcome to trust Me. 16 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: The podcast about cults extreme belief in manipulation from two 17 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: mini mouses who've actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc and 18 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: I'm making Elizabeth. Today is part one of our interview 19 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 2: with friends Thomas and Micah, one a former Mormon, the 20 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: other a child of Evandelica missionaries teaching a doctrine called 21 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: accelerated Christian Education. Both were closeted gay men who were 22 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: too indoctrinated by the shame of their respective religious upbringings 23 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: to come out when they live together's roommates, and today 24 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: we'll talk about their religion. How they met working at Disneyland, 25 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: which was kind of a cult unto itself, and the 26 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: personalized Book of Mormon that Thomas bought for Micah. 27 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: Oh. We'll also talk about masturbation, oh and what it 28 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: was like developing sexually in two religious cultures that stigmatize 29 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: homosexuality and bugayas as a sin. And in part two 30 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: next week we'll get into what it was like for 31 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: Thomas being on a mission as a young gay man 32 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: and how they both came out. 33 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 6: And so much more. I love them. 34 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 7: Oh they're my favorite. 35 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: This is a nice holiday two parter. I would say, yeah, 36 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: me too. I just want to be with them all 37 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: the time. 38 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 6: I know, well you actually get to because you're friends. 39 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: Well have new friends, So yeah, I mean I don't 40 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a stalker quite yet. 41 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 2: Okay, Well we'll get there before before we dive in, Megan, 42 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 2: can you tell me your cultest thing of the week? 43 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 7: I surely can. Okay. 44 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: So there is a beauty pageant in France. Have you 45 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: heard about this yet? 46 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: No? 47 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: The woman who won the Miss France contest is named 48 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: Evjel and she's all over the news because people are 49 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: very upset because she has a pixie haircut. 50 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 6: Uh uh huh. 51 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 7: And so you. 52 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: Think about women's hair being controlled as being a part 53 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: of cults mostly, but this conversation has gone as far. 54 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,839 Speaker 7: I'm reading an article about it in the Financial. 55 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: Times, like should a woman's beauty contestant be allowed to 56 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: have short hair? 57 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 5: Yes? 58 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 6: Stupidest should have ever heard. 59 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: People are so angry and are like, the only reason 60 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: she won is because she entered some woke agenda and like, 61 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: beauty queen should have long hair? 62 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 6: Are you kidding me? I have to say a picture 63 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 6: of her now, excuse me. 64 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: She's gorgeous, and of course she fits the exact like 65 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: beauty queen standard of just some wayfish beautiful girl. 66 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 7: And it's like she just has a pixie cut. 67 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 2: She's skinny, she has giant eyes and giant lips. It's 68 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: every eurocentric beauty standard that exists. 69 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 6: So what are they talking about? 70 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: This like thing of controlling women's hair. I guess still exists, 71 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: and I find it a little bit cult ty. 72 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, super culty. 73 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: It reminds me of The Bachelor that one season when 74 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: there was a girl with a pixie cut and it 75 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: made headlines for the same reason because no one on 76 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: the Bachelor has ever had short hair prior to this 77 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: girl who is I believe her name was Becca or Oh. 78 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 7: I loved her. She was so beautiful. 79 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: The bachelor short hair yees similar, actually really similar look, 80 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: dark pixie cut. 81 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: That you scared me when you went missing for a 82 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: couple months, but you were really just picking weed up. 83 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 7: On a farm up north. 84 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 6: Wait is that what happened? 85 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 7: Yeah? 86 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: Oh my god. 87 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: She seems to meet the very uh rigid bearded standard. 88 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: She meets every like strict beauty standard except for that 89 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: her hair is short. 90 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 6: That makes zero sense. 91 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if you put it in a bun and 92 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: put a poof on the top, she could join the 93 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: two by twos. 94 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 7: So I don't know, and I'm. 95 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 6: Sure she'd love to. 96 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: I had a pixie cut, and I gotta say it 97 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: looked cute as fuck, but I could not keep it down, 98 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: So I have mad respect it would poof up. 99 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know how anyone makes it 100 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 6: look cute. 101 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 2: Mad respect to anyone who can, who can maintain their 102 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: pixie cut, That's all I'm saying. 103 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's it's a it's a tough look. Maybe 104 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to protect us. From Maybe they're like, 105 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: we don't want you wasting your precious moments on earth 106 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: as a woman trying to tame your pixie cut. 107 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 7: Be free, because. 108 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: Otherwise I look like my dad and that and as 109 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: handsome as my dad is. 110 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 6: I don't want to look like him. 111 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: No, No, I'm just doing a joker reframe. They want 112 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: us all Dad, what about you? What's the couldiest thing 113 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: that happened to you this week? 114 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 6: Listen, so many things, but. 115 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna focus on one and say that lots 116 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: of people going home are the holidays right now, potentially 117 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 2: some difficult family conversations. It's very politically charged time. 118 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 6: I revisited the book. 119 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: Nonviolent Communication this week, and I honestly, I don't think 120 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: I'll be having that many difficult conversations in my family 121 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: at this time, but many of my loved ones and 122 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 2: friends will be. And it's a really helpful like a 123 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: framework for thinking about how to communicate through conflict with people, 124 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: which I know a lot of us are struggling with 125 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: at the moment. Who's It by Marshall Rosenberg. He is 126 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 2: the one who developed this idea of nonviolent communication. He 127 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: was a psychologist, a mediator and an author, and it's 128 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: all about conflict resolution and the basic it's just the 129 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: same shit that you learn in like couples therapy, which 130 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: is like I is like taking responsibility for your feelings 131 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 2: and not using blaming language and saying when you did 132 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: this thing, it made me feel this, here's what I need, 133 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: Here's what I would like from you in the future. Sure, 134 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 2: and like making sure you understand each other before reacting defensively, 135 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: because the truth is like most of us just when 136 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 2: we are in conflict is because we're not feeling understood 137 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: or heard or loved or cared for or scene and 138 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: like it's not actually because the you know, one of 139 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 2: us is a bad person. That's just like not how 140 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: most humans work. Some are exceptions, obviously, as we know 141 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: on this podcast. 142 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 6: But mostly not. So that's my I'm like, listen, you can. 143 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: I love that people can get a little too hardcore 144 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 2: with it and to the point where they're annoying where 145 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: they're it's like, okay, talk like a normal person. But 146 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: generally speaking, I would say, like it's really really helpful. 147 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 2: So I'm in the cult of non miolwent communication. 148 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 7: I love that so much. 149 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 6: So shall we talk to them now? 150 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 7: Let's do it. 151 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: Welcome Thomas and Micah to trust me. Thanks for being 152 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: here in the studio with us today. 153 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy. 154 00:06:58,960 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 7: Was exciting. 155 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 6: We're in a new location. 156 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 4: I was going to say, a beautiful studio. 157 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, you're in this one moment. You're so lucky. 158 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 3: Honestly, though, the vibes here are correct. 159 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: So I pasted all David Lynch curtains behind us. 160 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 6: It's gorgeous. You guys have a funny. 161 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 2: Story to tell us today, and funny deep dar all 162 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 2: of it. 163 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 6: But sure, oh yeah, things. 164 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: A story, check several boxes. 165 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're going to start by I want to 166 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: start by hearing about each of your religious backgrounds. I 167 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: guess Thomas will start with you. What is your religious background? 168 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 8: I grew up Mormon, which is funny because they don't 169 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 8: use that word Anymoreing away from. 170 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: It, I don't know that Wing towards the Church. 171 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 8: Of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints is the. 172 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 9: Official name, as if anyone's going to say that, right 173 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 9: and as a mouthful. 174 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 8: So I was also a missionary, so like I was 175 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 8: like committed. 176 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 6: Oh my god, you were a missionary, like. 177 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 8: Full blown missionary and So anyway, grew up in Temecula 178 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 8: and that's where really I was raised as far as 179 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 8: like being Mormon, because you would have people that were 180 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 8: not Mormon, so like it was even more of and 181 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 8: I don't know what your experience was like being in Utah, 182 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 8: but it's like definitely like either your Mormon or you're 183 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 8: not Mormon. 184 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: There was no in between. 185 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 8: So like I really was indoctrinated and very much was 186 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 8: like this is my identity and this is who I am, 187 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 8: and really kind of like very intense. I guess you 188 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 8: could say Mormon. 189 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 7: Would you tell the kids at school like. 190 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 8: I might kid, there were the kids at school I 191 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 8: would hang out with were Mormon, and we'd spend hours 192 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 8: of like going to seminary in the morning, going to 193 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 8: seminary books seminary. 194 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 7: How early is a seminary. 195 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 3: At six am? 196 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 8: So like you like depending on where you lived, like 197 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 8: you have to like get ready at five and like 198 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 8: before school, before school, and like that's so all for 199 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 8: what all or what? Because my mom's just like I 200 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 8: just want you kids to graduate from seminary and it's like. 201 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 6: No more to know what. 202 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: It just feels like such a waste. 203 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 8: But any rate, so a lot of my friends were Mormon, 204 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 8: and so like that was my it. Really, when I 205 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 8: like reflect back on it, I was indoctrinated in an 206 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 8: inundated what's the word, oh, overwhelmed with just pure Mormonism, 207 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 8: like logging in the amount of hours is overwhelming. So 208 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 8: it's like no surprise that, like I didn't come out 209 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 8: until I was twenty five. I didn't decide that, like 210 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 8: I'm no longer going to do this, like like not 211 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 8: until I was like twenty six, where I was just like, 212 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 8: maybe I'm not going to do this anymore. 213 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and there's I mean, church now is two 214 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: hours instead of three hours. 215 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 6: Yeah right, that's what I'm fair. 216 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 8: But but if you were like leadership, which I like 217 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 8: carried leadership positions, you would go in an hour before 218 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 8: or you'd stay. 219 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 6: After, not kidding, And then and you have like what. 220 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 3: Fire sides or things that would happen in the evening? Yeah, 221 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: fuck Sundays? 222 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 2: What young women and menood Priesthoodt's because. 223 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 6: Only men hold the priest. 224 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,479 Speaker 3: It's like yep, yeah. 225 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: And to just linger a little bit more on the Mormonism, 226 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 2: did you so you were full on Mormon boy? This 227 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: is your identity your baptized, you went on a. 228 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: Mission m hmm to Mississippi. 229 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 8: Oh, if you're from Mississippi though, you would say Mississippi though. 230 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 3: So I went to the Mississippi Jackson Mission. 231 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 5: Where you're needed in the Bible exactly, exactly exactly. 232 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 6: How old were you nineteen? 233 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 7: Okay? 234 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 6: Oh, you're always nineteen. 235 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. 236 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: And had you guys met each other? Yes, okay, so 237 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: we met? Okay, missionary til we. 238 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 7: Okay, I don't know. 239 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: I assumed you would be in your twenties for this story, 240 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: but no, okay, no. 241 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 5: So my bringing so I from like rural Kentucky, but 242 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 5: parents were missionaries in a sense, they helped start Christian schools. 243 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 5: So I my family spent three years in Honduras when 244 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 5: I was like six to nine ish, and then three 245 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 5: years in Paraguay until I was thirteen, and then we 246 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 5: moved back to Kentucky permanently then and you were with them, yes, 247 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 5: But like, I love that you guys are about like 248 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 5: cults and stuff because the people that my parents did 249 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 5: mission work for is like very kind of cultish. It's 250 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 5: called ACE Accelerated Christian Education. 251 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 6: Okay, extremely cultin. 252 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 7: That's not right. 253 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: I just love it. 254 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 5: We all just like look at each other and we're 255 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 5: just like there it is. And you know, it's always 256 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 5: like red flag cult when they have like their own 257 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 5: like terminology and like, you know, So I was looking 258 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 5: up last night because it's it's been a while since 259 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 5: I kind of dive into this. But so this is 260 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 5: their mission statement is part of it is no one 261 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 5: has produced a life changing character package character package like. 262 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 3: That of ACE. 263 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 5: Children's minds developed best in a God centered environment of 264 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 5: absolutes like. 265 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 6: Oh God. 266 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 8: Healthy. 267 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 5: They emerged with a sweet attitude and with a greater 268 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 5: richer concept of God and how he wants them to live. 269 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 5: So I was like kind of diving deep in this 270 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 5: last night, and so, like on the Wikipedia page, it 271 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 5: structured around a literal interpretation of the Bible and which 272 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 5: teaches other academic subjects from a Protestant, fundamentalist or conservative 273 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 5: evangelical standpoint. The ACE curriculum does not meet national and 274 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 5: state standards because it does not support skills for critical 275 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 5: thought and basic scientific literacy. 276 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 6: Okay, this is not on their website. 277 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 5: Wikipedia, although I doubt they're ashamed of this. 278 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 3: They're probably like. 279 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 5: Explicitly denies evolution. Human agency is affecting climate change and 280 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 5: that climate change is occurring. 281 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 4: There was another part I wanted to read. 282 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: I would to deny climate change because climate change is 283 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: the sign of the end times and they want the 284 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 2: end times. 285 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 6: So like, if anything, they should be like more oil 286 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 6: more exactly change, you know. 287 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 5: Okay, So science presented in the ACEE curriculum through the 288 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 5: framework of Young Earth creationism. The existence of the Lockness 289 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 5: monster is presented as a fact and used as a 290 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 5: so called proof against the scientific theory of evolution. 291 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 4: So like dinosaurs still exists. 292 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 3: Basically, that's what they're saying. 293 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: This is the crazy Okay, wait, how many people are 294 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: in this. 295 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 3: Shoot? 296 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 4: I should have gotten that from their. 297 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 7: Well, just uestimate. That's no worries. 298 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 5: AC's website states it is used in over six thousand 299 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 5: schools and one hundred and forty five countries thanks to 300 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 5: my parents. But this is the part that like stood 301 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 5: out to me. Textbooks used in the curriculum assert that 302 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 5: abortion is wrong, evolution is false, homosexuality is a choice. 303 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 5: They teach that wives must be wives must be subservient 304 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 5: to their husbands, women's liberation leads to child neglect, and 305 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 5: that one can avoid aids by being abstinate until marriage. 306 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 7: So wow. 307 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 5: So okay, so that's a good segue to when we met. 308 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 5: So we were both performers at Disneyland. That's how we met. 309 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: Just a little pause, I mean because we can take 310 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: this out, but yeah, Disneyland, very culty, please. 311 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 9: That's Oh I'm so glad that you brought that up, 312 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 9: because the themes of like Mormonism and Disneyland, especially when 313 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 9: it comes to cast members and they're votion tell us 314 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 9: tell so very culty, and so like like I mean, 315 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 9: come on, we're talking about like they celebrated their Disney 316 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 9: one hundred and like everyone revers literally their their latest short. 317 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 8: You know it's you know, yay, we have friends that 318 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 8: worked on it. Yay, So proud of you. But like 319 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 8: there's an element of of Walt Disney being looked at 320 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 8: as like Jesus Christ, where Mickey literally like looks up 321 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 8: to this portrait of of Walt Disney and like looks 322 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 8: and like all crazy stuff happens and suddenly it pauses 323 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 8: and the music slows down and like and he goes like, 324 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 8: oh thanks, you know the Mickey voice, I'm not going 325 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 8: to do it whatever, But like it's you know, it's 326 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 8: just like something like like that where and you're just 327 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 8: like and of course if you love it, you're like yes, 328 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 8: our Lord and Savior Walt Disney, like right right, And 329 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 8: so it's like this like very I mean, we could. 330 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 3: Go off about how like there are certain people where. 331 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 5: That is the relig talk about like Disney Adult it's 332 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 5: yeah riminology, and yeah, yeah. 333 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: Yeah there are I knew a girl who played Mickey. 334 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: She didn't tell me a lot about it, but there's 335 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: like there's like she was very secretive about it and honestly, 336 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: and so I didn't expect y'all to tell us anything 337 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: about it. I told the LA last night, like they're 338 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: probably not going to tell us anything about Disney because 339 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: it's like so. 340 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 7: Secret, is it? 341 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 6: Do you sign anything? 342 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 5: Like are you train sign a shit ton of stuff? 343 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 5: God only knows what we signed. 344 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 3: Well. 345 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 8: I was one of the new hire like orientation people. 346 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 8: They're called traditions facilitators already already see traditions traditions, yeah, 347 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 8: like and so like my job was literally to like 348 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 8: orient new hires. So like this is how we do Disney, 349 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 8: Like you're so lucky, it's so cringe and this is 350 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 8: what it's like and it. 351 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 3: Was borderline like not gonna lie. 352 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 8: It felt like being a missionary, but for Disney because 353 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 8: you tap into the emotional connection with the new hires, 354 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 8: like guest compliments. 355 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 3: Of like read let's read this letter from what right. 356 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 5: Well, well, already, traditions is separate from your job training, 357 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 5: so it's like in conjunction with it. But it's like 358 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 5: traditions is like, here's. 359 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 4: The Disney mission. 360 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 5: Here's how like we treat guests, here's what we're known for, 361 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 5: here's our brand. 362 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 4: That's the tradition. 363 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 5: So it's not like you're going to be sweeping up 364 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 5: leaves like that's the. 365 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 2: Right, right, I mean the corporate side of me, and 366 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 2: not that I have a corporate side, but see her 367 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 2: part of me that's like, well, it's like but you 368 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 2: need to have a company culture and like be able 369 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: to you know, like be clear about religion. 370 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 3: There are good aspects of it. 371 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: I worked at Jamba Jews and like there's a very 372 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: distinct company culture there. 373 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 6: But I loved it. It was so much fun. Tip 374 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 6: tip hooray, you know. 375 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 5: I mean we didn't well, yeah, and utilize like stuff 376 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 5: that I learned from Disney and every job I've ever had, 377 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 5: I think, and I have like high standards on like 378 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 5: customer service and all this stuff that I think came 379 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 5: from Disney. 380 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 3: So yes, there's there's good. 381 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 8: It's like, especially when I think about my Mormonism and 382 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 8: what I'm working on now is like not throwing. 383 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 3: The baby out with the bathwater is like Okay. 384 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 8: That's part of the deception of cults and of like 385 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 8: institutions like these, because there's a lot of valuable skill 386 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 8: sets and things that you develop. So when it comes 387 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 8: to being able to decipher what is good and what 388 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 8: is bad, it gets clouded because things like honesty and 389 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 8: being good and being charitable and being kind are things 390 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 8: that people like, yeah, they're like yeah, we universally those 391 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 8: are great core values. So to be able to say, like, oh, 392 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 8: when does the manipulation start, and when does the emotional 393 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 8: manipulation start and begin, like, that's where it starts to 394 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 8: getting very cloudy and then suddenly like then when it 395 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 8: comes to making certain decisions in certain ways that you 396 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 8: like view things, that's when the like the insidious part. 397 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, it's like there will be a few 398 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 2: good things and that will contribute to this black and 399 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 2: white thinking of of course it's good because it's got 400 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: good things. 401 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 6: There can't there can't be anything bad about it. 402 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: I really think it's important if you are raised in 403 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 1: an environment like this, or if you've worked in an 404 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: environment like this or ended up in an environment like this, 405 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: to just list out, like my traumas. This is after 406 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: you've you've processed a lot and like how they turned 407 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: out somewhat good for me, so that you can use 408 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: it for your advantage. 409 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: I've just yeahs traumatic growth, yea traumatic growth, Yeah, exactly, 410 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 2: think good. 411 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 7: Yeah. 412 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 6: But going back. 413 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: To your childhood, so were you a believer, like, tell 414 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: us about your relationship to religion. 415 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 5: Yes, I think it was harder for me to lose 416 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 5: my religion than it was for me to come to 417 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 5: grasps with being gay, because I did lose my religion first, 418 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 5: that was the first step. But but I was I. 419 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 4: Was older than you. 420 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 5: I mean, I am older than you, but I like, 421 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 5: I think around thirty is when I was finally like, 422 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 5: I don't think I believe any of this, but I 423 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 5: was less involved than he was because it was less structured. 424 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 8: I think, well, because your missionary stuff of being not rooted, right, Yeah. 425 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 5: I think by like my twenties, I was like church 426 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 5: is not for me, but like I want to be 427 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 5: christ Like and I believe the teachings of the Bible, 428 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 5: but I wasn't like reading it right, you know what 429 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 5: I mean? 430 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 9: Yeah? 431 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah. 432 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: So when you were a kid, you were were you 433 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 2: going to church? And you're back from the missionary Kentucky? 434 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 2: Is there a church? Is there a church in Kentucky. 435 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 3: That y'all can yes? 436 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 5: So the way it started was also very cultish, like 437 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 5: it was like a church. Again, rural Kentucky were like 438 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,719 Speaker 5: up on a hill and up on this hill, like 439 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 5: down like a very small all road is like the 440 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 5: church slash school where my dad was like the principal. 441 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 5: My mom was a teacher, and the preacher's house was 442 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 5: like further down the road. Our house was like down 443 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 5: this down the road, but road being like gravel, like 444 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 5: a gravel, right, So it's all like walking distance in 445 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 5: this little like commune. Basic And and that's where accelerated 446 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 5: Christian education comes in because they're like the curriculum. 447 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 3: The way so ace it's like. 448 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 5: Very like like a schoolhouse, like like eighteen hundred's you're 449 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 5: all one one schoolhouse, one room, all ages, and so 450 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 5: everybody has their own books which are called paces, yes, 451 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 5: which I forget the ace is the ace, but the 452 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 5: P and it is like I don't know whatever anyway, 453 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 5: So everybody has their own work books basically, and you're 454 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 5: working on your own speed. 455 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 7: Your own pace. 456 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 5: Yea, yeah, So that's that's how I grew up, was 457 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 5: like in this like one room school house. 458 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 7: So you're seventeen with a third grader, so they. 459 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 6: Don't have an official education pretty much? 460 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 7: Wow? 461 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 4: Pretty much? 462 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 6: And did you ever do more school? 463 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 8: No? 464 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 4: I never went to college. 465 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 5: And also my driver's ed was the first time I 466 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 5: was ever in a like lecture classroom environment. 467 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 6: Wow, what did you learn? 468 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 2: What kind of stuff besides the obvious Bible stuff like 469 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 2: matt science literature? 470 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 6: Like what were you learning? 471 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 4: Can I read you an excerpt? Y? 472 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 5: This was from the Wikipedia again not the official website. 473 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 5: So this is one of the things that they're like 474 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 5: controversial for that they have since removed. 475 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 7: But you got it. You got to experience that before. 476 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 5: Although apartheid appears to allow the unfair treatment of the blacks, 477 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 5: the system has worked well in South Africa. Although white 478 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 5: businessmen and developers are guilty of some unfair treatment of blacks. 479 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 5: They turned South Africa into a modern industrialized nation, which 480 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 5: the poor, uneducated books couldn't have accomplished in several more decades. 481 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 5: If more blacks were suddenly given control of the nation, 482 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 5: its economy and business, as Mandela wished, they would have 483 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 5: destroyed what they have waited and worked so hard for. 484 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 7: Oh my white savior complex. 485 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 6: I mean just straight up the most extreme racism. 486 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, so stuff like that. 487 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 6: When did they take that down? 488 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 4: Does it say it was like two thousands? Let me see, 489 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 4: that's yeah. 490 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 5: That's not great, but I think I mean it was 491 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 5: like two thousand and three or. 492 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 4: Two thousand and seven. 493 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 6: Part I was also not far enough back in history 494 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 6: for that to. 495 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 3: Even be white, you know. 496 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 4: Well. 497 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 5: On top of that, my books were from like probably 498 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 5: mid eighties too, Like this was god only knows what. 499 00:23:59,640 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 4: Wow. 500 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 7: I mean they taught you to read and write. 501 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 3: Yes, I will say. 502 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 5: I will say, like the whole like learning at your 503 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 5: own pace thing like that was probably good for I 504 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 5: feel like I have a learning this disorder and the 505 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 5: same way, and so schools are always very difficult for me, 506 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 5: and so I wonder if that helped or if it 507 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 5: made it worse. 508 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 4: You know. 509 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 6: I mean, I do think. 510 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 2: Tailored education is positive when there's actual education happening, you know. 511 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 5: I mean there was a lot of emphasis on like 512 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 5: the Bible of course, Like there was you know, incentive 513 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 5: to like memorize scripture, and you get merits if you memorize. 514 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 3: Scripture at current act. 515 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 2: So does that skill translate to your memorizing size? 516 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 5: I wonder because I did memorize. It was pretty easy 517 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 5: for me to memorize scripture. 518 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 4: Master. 519 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: Well, you want your merits obviously, exactly what what do 520 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: you get enough merits to like get a prize? 521 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 4: Is like books? 522 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's kind of like a book fair kind of 523 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 5: If you get merits, you could buy like, you know, 524 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 5: pencils or an eraser or something. 525 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 7: I do have to say, I'm jealous. 526 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: I went to normal school where I couldn't learn how 527 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: to read, Like I really could not get the hang 528 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: of it. And so every day this woman would come 529 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: and grab me and two boys and we'd have to 530 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: leave the classroom and go like, wait. 531 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: But you read faster than anyone I've ever yet because 532 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: you had that learning. 533 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 534 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 7: Well, I mean once I got past the hump of 535 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 7: not hump, once. 536 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: I got. 537 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 7: We support them once I got Once I. 538 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Got it, I really got it, and we didn't have television, 539 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: so all I did was I mean, now I'm like, 540 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: if I start a book, it's it's being finished that day. 541 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: But to get there it took me a minute. So anyway, 542 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: I do think learning at my own pace would have 543 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: been way less humiliating than having to leave the passiom. 544 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: But you know, it's a high price to pay for 545 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: what else you had to learn and go through. 546 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 4: So that might they make it very easy. 547 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 5: It feels very kind of pyramid schemey because they're like, 548 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 5: anybody could do this curriculum. 549 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 3: You just have to buy these books. 550 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 5: You don't have to have a venue, you don't. You 551 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 5: don't have to be an accredited teacher like you could. 552 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 4: Anybody could do it. 553 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 5: I mean, I love my parents, but my mom doesn't 554 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 5: have a college degree. 555 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 4: She is my teacher most of my life, right. 556 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: But so so they started it at that church. 557 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 5: It was very insular, like like all of my friends 558 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 5: and relations were either actual relatives or from that church. 559 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 5: I would say there was maybe like thirty of us 560 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 5: and then that's and then they got called to the 561 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 5: mission field to spread these kind of schools. There, which 562 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 5: are kind of it's kind of sold as like we're 563 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 5: going to teach these kids English, which is yeah, which 564 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 5: is to those countries. 565 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 3: That's like. 566 00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 4: Something that's like. 567 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 5: An assets in gold and you can go to US 568 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 5: colleges and all this stuff. 569 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: So so yeah, so that. 570 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 5: Was the mission, was to take it to other schools. 571 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 5: But my parents were like very underpaid. Most of I 572 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 5: think most of it was like funded by our church. 573 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: Like so and these people are. 574 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 5: Just making tons of money and tax free and you 575 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 5: know what I mean, Like I don't know, it feels 576 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 5: very fucked up to me. 577 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 2: So you're in Kentucky, you're into Mecula. 578 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 6: What how old were you guys when you met. 579 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 4: I had just turned twenty three. 580 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 3: I had just probably turned eighteen eighteen, right. 581 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,360 Speaker 2: I think, so you must have met So this all 582 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 2: happened like right before your mission. 583 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 3: Yes, Ok, yeah, like it was just probably maybe a year. 584 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. 585 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 5: We got Disneyland together and then we became roommates, and 586 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 5: then we were roommates for like a year while he 587 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 5: was studying for his mission, and then. 588 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: He left for h So you're just studying in the 589 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: corner and you you know his religious background, are you 590 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: kind of trying to convert him at all, or we're 591 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: asking Thomas, sorry, Thomas, were you trying to convert my 592 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: good at all? 593 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 8: Or you know, I didn't really know too much. I 594 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 8: just knew that like he was Christian in a sense, 595 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 8: but like. 596 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 3: Or stop that. 597 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 8: But like I wasn't sure exactly what denomination he was, 598 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 8: but I knew that like there was some you. 599 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: Know, you knew there was something homeschool about him. 600 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: Honestly. 601 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 6: Did you meet at Disneyland? 602 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? 603 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 8: So, like we met at the audition and like went 604 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 8: through training everything, and like and then we're just like, yeah, 605 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 8: you seem normal, Like let's move. 606 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 5: Out together, Let's let's ridiculous a bit of a drive, Yeah, 607 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 5: too much. 608 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 8: But like I was pretty intense because but before I 609 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 8: left for my mission, I got him a Book of Mormon. 610 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 8: I had the audacity not just give him a Book 611 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 8: of Mormon, but have his name. 612 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: You know how you can get your name in bossed 613 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: with it? 614 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 7: Stop you did not. 615 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 3: Micah Lee on it cover? Not even a soft cover. 616 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 6: Wow, I didn't even have a hardcover. 617 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 7: How much is that? 618 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: You know? 619 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 3: Affordable? 620 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 8: Like it wasn't like it set me back or anything, 621 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 8: but it was like but not only in Boss, but 622 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 8: then like, you know, wrote my testimony in the front page. 623 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 8: Like it was very like here's the seed. 624 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 5: You knowwhile I had been brought up to think that 625 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 5: Mormonism was like a cult and didn't count you. 626 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: Know, Sam, so I was just like okay. 627 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 5: But also I had never even met a Mormon, so 628 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 5: it was like kind of foreign to me. I was like, again, 629 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 5: at this point, I'm like a Christian, but like felt 630 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 5: like I was pretty progressive, and. 631 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't care. 632 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 5: He seems like a nice guy, He's cool whatever, I 633 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 5: don't I'm not worried about it. 634 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 4: And I remember I rented from Netflix, discs. 635 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 5: CBS a PBS documentary about Mormons, just so I could 636 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 5: like have a better but. 637 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so what is this? 638 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 8: Yeah? 639 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah. 640 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 4: He was constantly studying. 641 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 8: Yeah, he was watching Lost at the time, so he 642 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 8: was like, you want to watch Lost? Like he was 643 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 8: getting the season the discs Netflix, and like I would 644 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 8: be like, no, I need I need to know. 645 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 4: He would get studied and then he'd be like I 646 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 4: have to I have to study. 647 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 3: I have to go study. 648 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 6: Can you tell us about the process of prepping for 649 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 6: your mission? 650 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 3: It's a lot. It was a lot. 651 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 8: I mean, I think the very it varies between who 652 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 8: you are as an individual and as a person. For me, 653 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 8: i'd like I was hardcore about it. Like so it 654 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 8: was like Mike I said, studying every single night and 655 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 8: making sure that, like I was familiar. I read through 656 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 8: not just the Book of Mormon, but the Old and 657 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 8: New Testament and the doctrine and covenants and the Pear 658 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 8: Great Price, which are all dedicated than all the scripture, 659 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 8: and then plus all that they have I think they 660 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 8: still use preach my gospel. It's like the big, large, 661 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 8: steady handbook of the lessons that they teach, and like 662 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 8: being completely familiar, highlighting the crap out of that and 663 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 8: just being like really like on top of it, and 664 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 8: then not to mention if there wasn't all that, but 665 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 8: like going to church and going you know, not just 666 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 8: three hours, but like going like for those meetings beforehand 667 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 8: and whatnot. 668 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 4: It was just. 669 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: It was a lot. It was a lot. 670 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: And did you feel like like you have to obviously 671 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 2: be very free of sin and to be worth temple 672 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: worthy and everything. 673 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 9: Did you struggle with any of Absolutely yeah, absolutely impact 674 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 9: In fact, part of the reason why I went on 675 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 9: this mission was because I had sex. 676 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 8: No, yes, and not just sex sex with me. 677 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's. 678 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 6: Clarified with And he didn't get excommunication. 679 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 8: No no, no, I like confessed to my bishop. I 680 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 8: went to the through the repentance process three separate times. 681 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 8: So before I came out to my parents, I came 682 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 8: out to three separate bishops in three separate wards. 683 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 3: Because I was so sure. I was like, let me 684 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: work through this. 685 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 8: With God, like through the proper like it breaks my 686 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 8: heart now because I realized I was like there was 687 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 8: nothing wrong with me at all, but like looking through 688 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 8: like my like childhood journals and even journals of me 689 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 8: as like a teenager and whatnot, I always felt broken. 690 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 8: I always felt like I was not worthy of anything. 691 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 8: And so yeah I would I spoke to the bishop 692 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 8: and so not once, but it's why it's to a 693 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 8: different other bishop, and he helped work through whatever it 694 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 8: is that i'd worked through, which honestly, when we think 695 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 8: about people that aren't accredited and people that aren't really 696 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 8: licensed to be able to deal with some of these things. 697 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 8: One of the things that I had to like make 698 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 8: sure I didn't do was like masturbate. He would like 699 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 8: be checking in on every every week and. 700 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,239 Speaker 3: Like like, how did you do today? Was it's been 701 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 3: a good week? 702 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: Like physically possible for someone not a manumissions. 703 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 8: I guess a lot of wet dreams, a lot of 704 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 8: wet dreams. 705 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 3: But you can do it. 706 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 7: Oh god, I didn't know that. 707 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 6: Poor poor high school boys, poor high school. 708 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 5: When I was in school, I remember my mom saying 709 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 5: masturbation was like a form of abortion, that semen was 710 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 5: going to go to good news anyway, Oh my god. 711 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 2: Okay, Like I also would like masturbation was was a 712 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 2: problem for. 713 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 3: Me, Like it's not like yeah, but it was a problem. 714 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 8: It was. 715 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 2: It was too like I've constantly felt like a bad 716 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 2: person because I didn't know how to stop doing. 717 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 3: As a child, I had, you know, the closet. It 718 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 3: was like this. 719 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 8: It was a closet, closet and like I would tally 720 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 8: like I was in jail or prison in how many 721 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 8: times I did? 722 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 3: So that way if I did have to talk to 723 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 3: a bishop or. 724 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 8: I could be able to be like here are the 725 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 8: many times that I have done this. 726 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 2: And I am saying, you're being completely transparent about it, 727 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 2: and be completely transparent. 728 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 3: And I kept that number like tallied. 729 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 8: And I think it probably got up into like the 730 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 8: twenties or something like that. Not that I need to 731 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 8: put a number into it at all, but like no, 732 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 8: but I really would just every time just like loathe 733 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 8: myself for having done anything that is completely natural and 734 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 8: just like normal for our human bodies. But kind of 735 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 8: going back to circling back to your question, part of 736 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 8: why I went on my mission was not necessarily to 737 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 8: you know, pray the gay away, but to be like, 738 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 8: forgive me of having had gay sex, forgive me for 739 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 8: having done this and allow me, yeah, give me penance, 740 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 8: and so I can make restitution, so that way I 741 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 8: can be clean, I can exist, because I think at 742 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 8: that time I would have been okay being closeted gay 743 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 8: and just being Mormon until that like finally was no 744 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 8: longer a viable thing for me, where I was like, 745 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 8: you know what, am I really going to just sit 746 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 8: here on the sidelines and cheer on all these straight 747 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 8: families and just be like, you know. 748 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 3: Yes, you have fun. I'm gonna be here on this side. 749 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 3: You'd be happy. I'm gonna you know, you enjoy that 750 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,479 Speaker 3: straight sex. I'm just going to be right over here. 751 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 8: You know, like I'm not telling anymore. Like I had 752 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 8: to recognize that there was some cognitive dissonance happening, and 753 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 8: I had to be like, you know what, this isn't 754 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 8: for me anymore. 755 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 7: So does Mormonism allow you to be gay if you 756 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 7: don't act on it? 757 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I feel like I've told the story before. 758 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,359 Speaker 2: But when I was sixteen, close your ears if you're 759 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: related to me, I. 760 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 6: Gave a boy a blowjob. 761 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 7: Who was I was shocked. 762 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 2: I do not remember those getting ready for his mission 763 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 2: and his mission was delayed because it was like such 764 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 2: a big deal the repentance process. So I'm actually shocked 765 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: that you still made it to your mission at age nineteen. Also, 766 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 2: my mom was excommunicated for having post marital sex with 767 00:35:59,040 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 2: her boyfriend. 768 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 769 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 8: The excommunication weighted against women and men is so like unfair, 770 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 8: unfair and fucked up, Like. 771 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 7: So men are like get way more, way more. 772 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 3: It's awful. 773 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, the guy, the guys who tried to fuck her 774 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 2: all the time also never got excommunicated, so of course. 775 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 6: But that's crazy. So you, but you made it through 776 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 6: the repentance process. 777 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 3: I was trouble. 778 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 6: Why didn't tell anyone? But he told, Yeah, but I didn't. 779 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 2: I wouldn't didn't any same church anyway or anything. 780 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,959 Speaker 6: I got in a different place. Cool Jared. 781 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 7: Names Jared. No one knows who Jared is. 782 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 6: Jared doesn't Jared Jared. 783 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 3: Oh my god, No he. 784 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 6: Was a sweetie. 785 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 2: Okay, So but you and how what was your relationship 786 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 2: and now I'm speaking to Micah, what was your relationship 787 00:36:59,040 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: to master? 788 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 7: What was your relationship to jerking off? 789 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 4: I have two older brothers. 790 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 5: I feel like I learned a lot early, but that 791 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 5: not in an incense oh, just in a you know, 792 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 5: telling me, you know what what's up? Guilt for sure, 793 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 5: Like you know, every it was like every time felt 794 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 5: like a betrayal to God or something. Also, I was 795 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 5: just so like deeply closeted and like I'm in touch 796 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 5: with myself that that I was still jerking off to 797 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 5: like Straighthorn. I mean once the internet was like readily available, 798 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 5: you know, but but at the time, like I wasn't even. 799 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 3: Like that in touch with it. 800 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 8: Right. 801 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 4: It's it's funny. 802 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 5: Because like I felt so closeted. Like after it came out, 803 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 5: people are like, oh, who did you have a crush 804 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 5: on it? At Disney or like, who did you want? 805 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 5: I was like, I wasn't. It wasn't even on my 806 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 5: mind about them. 807 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 6: No, did you feel like you liked girls or did 808 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 6: you just feel asexual? Like what did you think? 809 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 5: Well, there's like I feel like being the only exposure 810 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 5: to like gay. I hate using the word gay lifestyle, 811 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 5: but a gay way of life was through like pop 812 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 5: culture and TV and stuff, and I didn't feel like 813 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,319 Speaker 5: I related to that. 814 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 3: You know, it was a caricature to be fair right 815 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 3: right in. 816 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 5: The nineties, right right, So I was like, well, that's 817 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 5: not me, Like, I don't that's that's not who I am. 818 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 5: And I also didn't feel like I was grossed out 819 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 5: by women, So you know, I'm sure I'm on the 820 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 5: spectrum somewhere, but I would never date a girl at 821 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 5: this point. But I did have a couple of girlfriends. 822 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 5: But again, like we were so like chaste and Christian. 823 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 5: The most way ever did was like make out, which, 824 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 5: in retrospect, by the way, my ex girlfriend like after me, 825 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 5: like immediately got pregnant outside of marriage, and I'm like, oh, 826 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 5: so it was just me. 827 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 7: She was not that willing to wait. 828 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, and then another ex girlfriend afterwards we had a conversation, 829 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 5: and she was like, I was surprised that you never 830 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 5: even like tried to touch a boob or anything. And 831 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 5: I was like, why would I do that? And then 832 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 5: as soon as I was with a guy, I was like, Oh, 833 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 5: this is what this is, like the urge that people 834 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 5: talk that's so interesting. 835 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 7: I never even thought about. 836 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean maybe I have, but just how your brain 837 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: can like keep being gay a secret from yourself under 838 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,240 Speaker 1: these rules. 839 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 7: So you're like, yeah, I'm just following the rules. 840 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 5: I feel like I had friends and family that were like, well, 841 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 5: why didn't you tell me? 842 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 4: Why didn't you confide in me? And I'm like, I 843 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 4: didn't even. 844 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 5: Say it out loud to myself at that point, like 845 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 5: I was still you know, it took it took like 846 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,320 Speaker 5: ten years at being at Disney and then essentially having 847 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 5: all gay friends and being like surrounded by it to 848 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 5: be like, well, wait, I'm not judging them at this point. 849 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 5: I'm not thinking that they're wrong, So why am I 850 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 5: denying this about myself? 851 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,959 Speaker 4: Right? It took a long time to like process all. 852 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 6: Of that, all right, and we'll leave it there for now. 853 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 2: Stay tuned, I think not next week but the week 854 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 2: after because you're taking a. 855 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 6: Week off, Megan, let me ask you. 856 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 2: Would you want to be roommates with Micah and Thomas 857 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 2: in their closeted Disneyland face. 858 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 7: More than anything in the world? Yes, sign me? 859 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: And I think I yeah, I think I would love 860 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 1: it to live with them, even when they were off 861 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: the grid sexually. 862 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 7: I think it would just be a delight. 863 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 1: And also add in the Disney stuff they were Pluto 864 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,959 Speaker 1: and Goofy, like. 865 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,959 Speaker 7: Shut the fuck up, I need this. 866 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 6: That's so cute. 867 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 7: It's okay, I know, I know. 868 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 2: I would too, but probably just because I want my 869 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 2: own embossed Book of Mormon, because I haven't had one 870 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 2: of those since I was like fifteen years old. 871 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 7: And well, can we just say, Thomas, what a gesture? 872 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 7: What a what a what a move? 873 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 6: What a move? 874 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 7: I mean, I don't I don't even know what to say. 875 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 7: Who does that? 876 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 2: I think I just want any book that is in 877 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 2: bossed with my name, like it doesn't matter what it is. 878 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 2: I just want my name in those like that, like 879 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: beautiful gold lettering, which you probably aren't familiar with because 880 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 2: you probably haven't seen that many Book of Mormons in 881 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 2: your life, have you. 882 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 7: No, No, I haven't seen one. 883 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 2: Nice nice leather binding and then they have these like 884 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 2: gold block lettering. 885 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:27,760 Speaker 6: Anyway, it's really nice. 886 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 8: Yeah. 887 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 7: I can't say that I've ever had my name on 888 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 7: a book. 889 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 6: Okay, I guess I know what I'm getting you. 890 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 7: For Christmas, The Book of Mormon. 891 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 6: Book of Mormon. 892 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,960 Speaker 1: I feel like our conversation gets even more interesting from here. 893 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: Next week's is going to be great. We're so gratefully. 894 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 7: Listen this week. Please go rate us five stars, Go 895 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,919 Speaker 7: leave a review, Go do whatever you want. We have merch. 896 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 7: You know what, Just have some fun with it. 897 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 2: It's Christmas and Hanakah and whatever other holiday you celebrate. 898 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 7: As always, remember to follow your cut, watch out for. 899 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: Red flags, and never ever Trust me. 900 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and 901 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 2: Steve Delemator. 902 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 7: With special thanks to Stacy Para. 903 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 6: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church. 904 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast, 905 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at trust. 906 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 7: Me Cult Podcast. 907 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter. 908 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Bebraham 909 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter. 910 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 6: Remember to rate and review and spread the word