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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Other Dish of the Giants TOTO podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by citizens Official Bank of the Giants.

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Speaker 1: I'm John Schmilch. Welcome to Carl Banks Ringovano. Remember two

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Speaker 1: time Super Bowl champion Voice of the Giants on the

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Speaker 1: radio with Bob Popa, our analyst. Carl, we're at the

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Speaker 1: quarter season mark here and the Giants are one and three.

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Speaker 1: Giants were one and three last year, and you just

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Speaker 1: finished talking to Brian Dable for our TV show over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, and I thought you asked a great question.

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Speaker 1: You said, there are no moral victories. One and three

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Speaker 1: is one and three, and we will get to that too.

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Speaker 1: But doesn't this one in three heading into week five

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Speaker 1: this year feel a lot different than last year's one

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Speaker 1: in three heading into week five? Yeah, Bob, you go ahead.

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Speaker 1: It's Carl. It's five for through it. I think that's hilarious.

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Speaker 1: Roll through it. Go ahead, Man, that's great. I love it. Yeah. John.

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Speaker 2: When you look at this team in a vacuum and

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Speaker 2: you just say, Okay, are they better this year than

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Speaker 2: last year? You say yes, because you look at categories, right,

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Speaker 2: you look at where they are in sacks, giving up

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Speaker 2: where they are in sacks taken right, and they are

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Speaker 2: ranked relatively high. They were last in the league at

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Speaker 2: this point last year with sacks given up by an

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Speaker 2: offense and by sacks generated by a defense, and they're

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Speaker 2: in the top five right now. So you say, okay,

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Speaker 2: that's an area of improvement. But the difference is or

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Speaker 2: the thing that stays the same is the record. Right,

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Speaker 2: so you can you can look at your own improvement internally,

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Speaker 2: and you still have to figure out how to win games, right,

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Speaker 2: because again there are no moral victories. But you can

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Speaker 2: feel better about the competitiveness of this team at this stage,

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Speaker 2: and you can see that this team is getting closer, right.

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Speaker 2: But the thing about getting closer, you've got to somehow

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Speaker 2: break through. You gotta find that ugly win, right, that

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Speaker 2: ugly win, so that you can say, Okay, this effort

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Speaker 2: is paying off. I don't think the team will get demoralized.

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Speaker 2: I think there's strong character in the locker room. But

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Speaker 2: you gotta just figure out that one extra something that'll

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Speaker 2: get you a victory.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think this is it's almost a

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Speaker 1: more frustrating one and three then last year. It's less demoralizing,

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Speaker 1: but it's more frustrating, right, because you're sitting here and

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Speaker 1: you're like, all right, well, if Gonoda doesn't pop his

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Speaker 1: hamstring in week two, or Neighbors catches a fourth down play,

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Speaker 1: and then against the Cowboys in the Cowboys game, if

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Speaker 1: one though Robinson or Gariu Bin or whoever catches balls, whatever, whatever,

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Speaker 1: any one of those plays, you know, jonesit's one or

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Speaker 1: two of the deep balls in the first half. There's

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Speaker 1: gold be a million different moments in that game that

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Speaker 1: changes it. You could easily be sitting at three and

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Speaker 1: one and feeling really good about where you are. So

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Speaker 1: now it's like the conversation has changed, where now your

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Speaker 1: team's good enough and it's playing well off the but

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Speaker 1: now you actually to figure out a way to win,

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Speaker 1: which is almost a different challenge.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it is, And that can be frustrating, right

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Speaker 2: because you know that for three of the four games

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Speaker 2: you should have found a way to win them.

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Speaker 1: You were there, especially since and as you beating yourself,

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Speaker 1: it's not the other team out classing you, which is

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Speaker 1: a killer.

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Speaker 2: You know, you take the first game and you say, okay,

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Speaker 2: they they just got the doors blown off, right, They like,

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Speaker 2: he's whoop them the next three games you look at

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Speaker 2: you're like, these should be victories, right, But they weren't.

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Speaker 2: And the schedule doesn't stop and wait for you to

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Speaker 2: get better. You've got to be better. You've got to

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Speaker 2: do the little things to get those ugly victories. And

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Speaker 2: you know I've been saying this all seasons since the

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Speaker 2: Minnesota game, is that your best players have to be

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Speaker 2: your best players every game. You know, they can't pick

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Speaker 2: and choose when they want to be best. They've got

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Speaker 2: to be best no matter who they're going against. Your

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Speaker 2: role players are the guys that have to pay attention

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Speaker 2: to detail. And you're starting to see some of those

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Speaker 2: role players stack back to back performances. You know, especially

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Speaker 2: in the young defensive backfield, and when we speak even

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Speaker 2: the young defensive backfield, the margin of error right is

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Speaker 2: very slim. Case in point to Ceedee Lamb touchdown, it

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Speaker 2: would have been a big play, but as a result

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Speaker 2: of a bad angle by a young defensive back, it

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Speaker 2: went for a touchdown. He knew what he was supposed

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Speaker 2: to do, right, he was over the top, but he

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Speaker 2: just overran it. So those are fixable things. You want

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Speaker 2: to get those fixed in Like I said, in one

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Speaker 2: of those ugly victories, but you know you have it now.

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Speaker 2: Each week is a different challenge, right, He's going to

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Speaker 2: have to always stay locked in. All of these young

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Speaker 2: defensive backs stay locked into their assignments. But then there's

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Speaker 2: the football aspect of it, called tackling right and called

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Speaker 2: intercepting Deontay Banks with the exception of a red zone

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Speaker 2: play by Amari Cooper where he just gave him a

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Speaker 2: two way go. Every one of the vertical balls he's covering,

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Speaker 2: he's in position, he's in phase, and he's got either

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Speaker 2: intercept or knocked the ball down.

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Speaker 1: You took the words out of my mouth, Gold, because

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Speaker 1: when you brough up the defensive backs and details, I

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Speaker 1: was going to go right to Deontay Banks because I

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Speaker 1: think his coverage just actually staying in phase and neuring

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Speaker 1: has been good. Now. He did on that CD lamp play.

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Speaker 1: I think he did kind of let him go a

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Speaker 1: little bit when he should have lost a little bit

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Speaker 1: of focus.

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Speaker 2: But he had he had a safety over the top.

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Speaker 1: He did have a safety over the That is true.

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Speaker 1: That's just one of those guys, and I think a

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Speaker 1: perfect example of the young guys having to lock in

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Speaker 1: on some of these finer details that make the difference

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Speaker 1: between playing not a play, and there's another play too

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Speaker 1: in that game, and we can go back to the

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Speaker 1: defensive back. I thought this was a good example, Malik Naghbors,

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Speaker 1: who's been fantastic, we'll talk about them. On the play

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Speaker 1: right before the field goal on the fourth and goal

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Speaker 1: from the three first shot of the third quarter. You know,

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Speaker 1: they run that little swing route to Wander Robinson and

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Speaker 1: Overshow and comes shooting out of the cannon tackles by

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Speaker 1: the sideline. Well, Neighbors runs a stop route. He's supposed

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Speaker 1: to set like a little rub on Overshow, and he

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Speaker 1: sets it a little bit too shallow. Overshow still has

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Speaker 1: an angle to get out the Robinson. It's like little

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Speaker 1: details like that that are the difference between scores and

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Speaker 1: no scores.

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Speaker 2: And in the other aspect of this, when we talk

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Speaker 2: about those little attention to detailed things, you have to

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Speaker 2: be complimentary on offense and on defense. You have to

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Speaker 2: defense have to compliment the offense and vice versa. But

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Speaker 2: also plays like you just said, that's complimentary football where

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Speaker 2: Neighbors has to get the right depth. He has to

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Speaker 2: make sure that that play is executed on his end.

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Speaker 2: So that Robinson get the ball and get some yards,

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Speaker 2: So that's complimentary, right, and then the usage rate of

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Speaker 2: someone like Malikue Neighbors, you could you know, they're feeding them, right,

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Speaker 2: But those off plays where someone else has an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to make a play, those receivers have to make sure

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Speaker 2: that they catch footballs and do what they're supposed to do.

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Speaker 2: Because at the rate Neighbors is getting targeted, it's pulling

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Speaker 2: resources from the defense. So those other guys have got

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Speaker 2: to be able to make the plays that are there

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Speaker 2: for them to make as well.

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Speaker 1: Why don't we stick on the offense and so you

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Speaker 1: end it on Neighbors, then we'll rotate back over to

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Speaker 1: the defense. Daniel Jones, how do you think he's played

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Speaker 1: these first four weeks? I went through some averaging last

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Speaker 1: three games. It's two hundred and forty something yards per game,

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Speaker 1: ninety five quarterback right, four touchdowns, one pick, only been

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Speaker 1: sacked four times. I think he's doing a good job

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Speaker 1: of recognizing some of the Butitzer's a getting the ball out.

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Speaker 1: But there's also been a lot of missed opportunities there,

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Speaker 1: especially on balls down the field. So your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: what we see from Daniel the last three weeks.

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Speaker 2: So in terms of running the offense again, with the

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Speaker 2: exception of the first game of the season, he's been

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Speaker 2: in total command of the offense. He's made great decisions

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Speaker 2: with the football and I think from a short to

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Speaker 2: mid range game he's got it.

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Speaker 1: Down in yep, I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: Long range verticals and deep balls. He hasn't had to

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Speaker 2: calibrate it yet. It's not a matter and you know,

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Speaker 2: I've heard a lot of different theories of all ever

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Speaker 2: since the next surgeries. He doesn't have the arm strength, well,

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Speaker 2: I would say you may have a point, except for

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Speaker 2: he's got his fair share of overthrows.

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Speaker 1: The first three weeks it was all overthrows, Carl, they were.

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Speaker 2: All overthrows, right. So it's not a matter of arm strength,

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Speaker 2: it's just calibrating it. It's like and you're you're a

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Speaker 2: basketball player. You know how you know how it feels

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Speaker 2: when you start to drain the deep ones, right, but

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Speaker 2: you got to calibrate it in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but when they're not falling, everything is either a

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Speaker 1: little long or a little short. You can't quite get

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Speaker 1: it right.

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Speaker 2: And in football you do have a little bit more margin.

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Speaker 2: Fair you just got to get it in the neighborhood, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: if you can hit the rim as a quarterback, the

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Speaker 2: ball is going to be caught and you know, but

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Speaker 2: in basketball, you get the ram is gonna clank. But

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Speaker 2: it's just a.

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Speaker 1: Matter of I think, great way to put it.

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Speaker 2: He has to calibrate that long ball. It's just as

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Speaker 2: simple as that, because he's had him overthrown. He's had

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Speaker 2: him underthrown, and the one to Elak neighbors where he

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Speaker 2: was wide open, it looks like he just tried to touch it,

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Speaker 2: so he didn't overthrow it, right.

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Speaker 1: Though he definitely he was like, he's so open, I'm

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Speaker 1: not missing I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not missing him. So I'm just gonna just kind of

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Speaker 2: make sure he gets it and instead of just laying

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Speaker 2: it out there and letting them run under it. But

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Speaker 2: you know, there's to say that in saying he needs

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Speaker 2: to get a calibrated, I think the more technical way

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Speaker 2: of saying it is he's got to trust his.

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Speaker 1: Mechanics and just let it go, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just trust the mechanics, do what you do right,

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Speaker 2: and trust it and it'll work out the way it's

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Speaker 2: supposed to. Because it's not like you can't make the throws.

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Speaker 1: off the Top. You mentioned the offensive line, and that

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Speaker 1: I think has been a source of a ton of

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Speaker 1: the improvement this team has shown. Crawl, I just mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: Last three games, just four sacks allowed the pass protection.

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Speaker 1: Are they a top five line? Maybe not, But Daniel

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Speaker 1: Jones has had room to operate the offense and Brian

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Speaker 1: Damon more importantly, I think now was forging to call

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Speaker 1: whatever play he wants correct. He doesn't have to adjust

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Speaker 1: his play calls based on the play of the offensive line.

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Speaker 1: So let's start the pass protection part of it first.

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Speaker 1: I think you have to be really happy with what

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Speaker 1: we've seen so far this year.

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Speaker 2: I am. And the thing that's so noticeable, John, is

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Speaker 2: that this offensive line is connected, right, So when you

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Speaker 2: see the stunts, you don't have like stare steps where

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Speaker 2: one guy's here and the other guy is behind him.

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Speaker 2: In just these natural creases.

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Speaker 1: They're building a wall.

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Speaker 2: They're building a wall, and they're communicating and passing things off. Right,

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Speaker 2: even when it comes to the speed rush. Right with

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Speaker 2: the job that Andrew Thomas did versus Michael Parsons, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's had two unicorns back to back weeks.

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Speaker 2: He had Miles Garrett and he had Michael Parsons, two

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Speaker 2: basically different types of guys, but just unicorns and what

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Speaker 2: they can do. And he fared well. You know, I

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Speaker 2: don't think when the folks at these places that give

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Speaker 2: you the analytic breakdowns in his score against Miles Garrett

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Speaker 2: say he had his worst game, but his quarterback was clean.

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Speaker 1: Well, and by the way, you're having your worst game

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Speaker 1: agains Miles Garret shouldn't be a surprised by the way.

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Speaker 2: Right, But you keep your quarterback clean for the most

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Speaker 2: part of the game, right, you keep him off of

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Speaker 2: the quarterback. Yeah, I mean you're gonna struggle a little

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Speaker 2: bit against those guys. That's the way it's.

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Speaker 1: Opposed to Garrett's that to everybody, Right.

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Speaker 2: But then he comes back this week or this past week,

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Speaker 2: and he puts a really good performance together versus Lawrence

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Speaker 2: and Michael Parsons.

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Speaker 1: And then by the way, they're doing it without a

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Speaker 1: ton of help, like they're not leaving, they're not leaving

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys in. Like they're doing a pretty

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Speaker 1: nice job one on one here. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this, this offensive line from a past pro perspective,

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Speaker 2: has been really good. Run game. We haven't seen what

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Speaker 2: I think will be their best. And I spoke about

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Speaker 2: being complimentary. Your running back has to be complimentary to

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Speaker 2: his offensive line and vice versa. Right, the offensive line

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Speaker 2: needs to make sure that they sustain blocks. But also

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Speaker 2: Singletary has to stay in his character in that he

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Speaker 2: is a patient and disciplined runner. Right, Allow some of

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Speaker 2: these things to develop unless there's a player that flashes

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Speaker 2: through the line of scrimmage. Give your offensive line a

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Speaker 2: chance to move some things because it opens up late.

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Speaker 2: And you know, in the Dallas game, it just seemed

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Speaker 2: like he did not stay in that that character of

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Speaker 2: who he was. You know, he's a disciplined runner, right,

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Speaker 2: He's a patient and disciplined runner. In the Dallas game,

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Speaker 2: it just seemed like he was trying too hard to

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Speaker 2: make something happen and dismiss some opportunities.

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Speaker 1: Final question on the offense before we jump over the defense.

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Speaker 1: I've gotten this question from a million fans, so I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna throw it at you, Carl. Are you okay

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Speaker 1: with the distribution of targets on offense? One? With Malie

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Speaker 1: getting all these targets I have a problem with. He's

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Speaker 1: your best player, get them the damn ball. And then

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Speaker 1: is there a way to get Hiatt more involved? Even

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Speaker 1: though it's pretty clear right now that they have more

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Speaker 1: trust in Robinson and Slayton as the second and third

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Speaker 1: guys in whatever order we want to put him in,

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Speaker 1: is there a way to try to get him more

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Speaker 1: involved to take advantage of some of his speed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's going to come, and I would

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Speaker 2: encourage Hyatt to stay patient, do not have rabbit ears,

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Speaker 2: because both he and Bellinger both are guys that we

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Speaker 2: know are guys that can contribute big plays to this offense.

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Speaker 2: And I think in time that's going to happen. Sooner

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Speaker 2: than later. You know, you just got to get your matchups,

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Speaker 2: and you know, quite frankly, as they start to execute

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Speaker 2: better and get into a rhythm offensively, then the personnel

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Speaker 2: really becomes an issue for defenses. But when they're dropping

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Speaker 2: footballs on key downs, it just messes up the rhythm.

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Speaker 2: So now your play caller has to go back to

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Speaker 2: the drawing board and go to you know whatever that

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Speaker 2: next down and distance is. Whereas if these plays are executed,

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Speaker 2: they're in a rhythm, and now you can just start

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Speaker 2: subbing your personnel and he can dial up the type

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Speaker 2: of plays he wants to dial up. There's no disputing

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Speaker 2: in my opinion that Hyatt has some of the best

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Speaker 2: hands in ball skills that's in this group of receivers.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think that's lost on anybody, and I

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Speaker 2: just think he just has to stay locked in. And

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Speaker 2: you know, every receiver they like to have a football

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Speaker 2: thrown to them, or they at least want the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: And right now, he's you know, gets two or three

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Speaker 2: plays a game, and most of them are go routes.

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Speaker 2: Right he gets overthrown on one in Cleveland, but just

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Speaker 2: stay ready. I just think he's a weapon that is

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Speaker 2: going to come in handy and he's going to be

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Speaker 2: used more frequently moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Johns tottle brought to you by Citizen's Official Bank of

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Speaker 1: the Giant Citizens will doing eight, seven hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: for all that life brings? Defense? Girl, the run defense,

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Speaker 1: I think we all know that has to be better.

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Speaker 1: Even though the Cowboys numbers last week Warren spectacle in

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Speaker 1: the second half, they had a couple of drives or

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Speaker 1: they are able to sustain them by just pounding the football.

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Speaker 1: And that's a run game that has really struggled so

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Speaker 1: far this year. So, as a guy who was frankly

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Speaker 1: one of the best run defending linebackers in the history

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Speaker 1: of the league, when you look at this run defense,

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Speaker 1: where do you see the points where like, all right,

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Speaker 1: this can get better, ABC and D.

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Speaker 2: It really comes down to tackling. You know, at the

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Speaker 2: point of attack, you have the right players on the field,

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Speaker 2: and you miss tackles at the point of attack, and

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Speaker 2: this is it, I would say at this point, John,

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Speaker 2: they've just been inconsistent because there's some games they tackle

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Speaker 2: really well, other games they haven't. And then understanding situational

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Speaker 2: football that's the other part. But the defensive backs, the

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Speaker 2: young defensive backs are being challenged. They're tackling better. Your

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Speaker 2: guys up front have got to continue to, you know,

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Speaker 2: play good gap responsible football, but they've got to make tackles.

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Speaker 2: That's really what it comes down to. In the run game.

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Speaker 2: If you can play your responsibility, there's going to be

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Speaker 2: somebody at the point of attack. You got to make

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Speaker 2: the tackle. But tackling is a team effort too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, guys have got to get off the ball

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Speaker 2: so that one guy is not the only guy that

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Speaker 2: has to make the tackle.

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Speaker 1: All right, two more questions, Carl the pass rush, sojority

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Speaker 1: such on the defensive backs. We're not going to go

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Speaker 1: there again. We've seen it in Spurts, right. Thibodeau had

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Speaker 1: a really good game against the Cowboys. Burns had the

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Speaker 1: big time game against the Browns. Dexter was quite against

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Speaker 1: Dallas because they double team every time. But he was

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Speaker 1: really good the first three weeks. When you look at

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Speaker 1: this pass rush. How close do you see the Voltron

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Speaker 1: coming together? But it seems like they're still kind of

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Speaker 1: fighting separately and they haven't brought it all together on

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Speaker 1: one game quite yet.

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Speaker 2: I just think individually, like I said, your best players

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Speaker 2: have to be your best players every game. Now, the

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Speaker 2: other guys get paid too, So if they want to

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Speaker 2: put three hats on Dexter or two hats on Dexter,

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Speaker 2: your other two guys have got to be those players.

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Speaker 2: And then you also have to factor in how Shane

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Speaker 2: Bowen is calling his defenses because he's kind of broken

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Speaker 2: whatever they thought his trend was in terms of not

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Speaker 2: being a blitzing coordinator. He's They're getting sacks, right, So

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Speaker 2: you just have to accept the fact that schematically sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's meant for somebody else. I mean, you got safeties

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Speaker 2: in the Washington game, they had most of the sacks.

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Speaker 1: They did, right, It was Pinnock and Drew Phillips at

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Speaker 1: three of the five sacks. I think, yeah it was.

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Speaker 2: And then in the Cleveland game, Brian Burns was back

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Speaker 2: there frequently, right, So you just have to watch it

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Speaker 2: all come together as a unit and those individual guys,

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Speaker 2: And that's the thing about sacks. They come in bunches.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not concerned with Brian Burns, especially when you

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Speaker 2: see the effort and you can see him beating guys.

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Speaker 2: And look again, the other team gets paid too. So

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Speaker 2: if they say, Dak Prescott, we're not letting you hold

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Speaker 2: the ball, We're getting the ball out of your hands

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Speaker 2: before this guy can get to you.

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Speaker 1: And that's that.

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Speaker 2: And they did that. But that's where the word complimentary

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Speaker 2: comes in. Your defensive back's got to play tighter coverage,

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Speaker 2: make him pull that first look down and then your

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Speaker 2: past rush will start to get there.

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Speaker 1: I know. Fans is a quick follow up. They were like,

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Speaker 1: it blitzed all these times against the Browns and you

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Speaker 1: don't blitz as much against Dallas. And I'm like, guys,

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Speaker 1: there's a difference between blitzing Deshaun Watson and Dak Prescott.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and there's there's a big difference. Just put it

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Speaker 2: that way. Dak can get he will gut you if

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Speaker 2: he sees your blitz, and.

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Speaker 1: He will throw the sea land every single time.

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Speaker 2: He will gut you. And Deshaun Watson they're not in sync.

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Speaker 2: So confusion for him versus Dak is two different games.

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Speaker 1: All right, Finally, game plan against the Seahawks on offense

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Speaker 1: and defense. We literally we're going this on Tuesday. We

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Speaker 1: both of us watched the game last night. They've looked

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Speaker 1: great on offense, run game, pass games, Gino look terrifically,

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Speaker 1: but then on defense he couldn't stop anybody. So your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on what you saw from Seattle on what the

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Speaker 1: Giants need to do on both sides of the ball

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Speaker 1: to win the game on a Sunday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Well, offensively, Seattle is just as complete a team as

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Speaker 2: you can get in terms of complimenting run pass. If

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Speaker 2: we just want to look at the run game, they've

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Speaker 2: got three good runners. Kenneth Walker, when he's in the game,

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Speaker 2: every gap on the line of scrimmage is the point

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Speaker 2: of attack. I mean, because where he starts and where

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Speaker 2: he ends can be a totally dynamics dynamically opposite right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he can hit going left and make this

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Speaker 2: cut and it's very dynamic, and I mean he's gone,

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Speaker 2: He's got great contact balance. Right, They've got good speed

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Speaker 2: at the other running back, and then Geno Smith just like,

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Speaker 2: let's just blur out who he's throwing to right now.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that he makes decisions, he can extend plays,

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Speaker 2: he's athletic, and he's confident. This is a different This

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Speaker 2: is a different Geno Smith. Now it's been this way

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Speaker 2: for the last three seasons, but he's off to another

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Speaker 2: really good start. Now you bring into focus who he's

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Speaker 2: throwing to. He's got one of the most unstoppable receivers

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Speaker 2: in football, Dk Metcalf. Anything contestants, it belongs to him.

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Speaker 2: He believes right. He's got speed, he's a good runner,

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Speaker 2: but he's physical. Locket the young wide receiver and all

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Speaker 2: these guys are great weapons. And you have a quarterback

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Speaker 2: who can get it to them, who will always look

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Speaker 2: even when he's moving around in the pocket. He's moving

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Speaker 2: around to find an open guy, and he's got a

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Speaker 2: cannon that could get it there.

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Speaker 1: It's funny when you give quarterbacks a chance to develop.

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Speaker 1: They think they get better as they get older. It's

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Speaker 1: funny how that works, isn't Yeah? Good stuff, friend, I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it. Giants Little podcast brought to you by a

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Speaker 1: citizens Official Bank of the Giants for Call Banks, I'm JOHNH. Malt.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next time.

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Speaker 1: Everybody