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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, George Nore you with you, Steve Gorham with us, Steve.

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Speaker 2: Microsoft is going to spend the billions of dollars on

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Speaker 2: data centers to run artificial intelligence. Is there going to

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Speaker 2: be a tie in with green energy?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, tremendous impact, George. In addition to what mister Trump

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Speaker 3: is doing, there are a number of other factors in

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Speaker 3: the markets that are going to impact green energy in

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Speaker 3: a big way. And one is the rising demand for

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Speaker 3: electric power. In the United States, electric power has been

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Speaker 3: pretty flat for the last two decades, about four point

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Speaker 3: one million gigawatt hours. But now we have a number

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Speaker 3: of forces just driving a huge new demand. A couple

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Speaker 3: of those are green. There's a push to switch to

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Speaker 3: electric vehicles, and there's also as a push to get

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Speaker 3: away from death to appliances and adopt heat pumps. But

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Speaker 3: much bigger than all of those is this drive for

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Speaker 3: artificial intelligence. And we have. What's going on is that

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Speaker 3: all the big guys Microsoft and Meta and Google and

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Speaker 3: Amazon are now building new data centers and upgrading data

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Speaker 3: centers to run to run AI. And we used to

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Speaker 3: data centers usually have been just for a cloud storage

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Speaker 3: and running the Internet, but now they're upgrading these servers,

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Speaker 3: and these servers run weeks on end, twenty four hours

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Speaker 3: a day to try and make machines THINGQI like humans

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Speaker 3: solve these AI problems. And so at the start of

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, data centers are using about four percent

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Speaker 3: of US electricity. It's now estimated within ten years that

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Speaker 3: data centers are going to use twenty percent of all

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Speaker 3: electrical power in the country. Just a massive change, and

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Speaker 3: the grid operators were just taken by surprise by this thing.

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Speaker 3: For example, Texas last year had a record load of

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Speaker 3: of about eighty five gigawatts. It's now projected that within

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Speaker 3: five years they're going to need one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: gigawatts of power, almost at doubling. And here's a quote

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Speaker 3: from Texas Lieutenant Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. We want data centers,

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Speaker 3: but it can't be the wild wild West of data

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Speaker 3: centers and crypto miners crashing our grid and turning the

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Speaker 3: lights off. And what this is going to do is

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Speaker 3: this is going to impact green energy because the green

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Speaker 3: movement wants to retire coal and gas power plants, on.

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Speaker 3: No way we're going to be able to retire anymore plants. Instead,

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Speaker 3: we have to have them for AI. And we're already

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Speaker 3: seeing coal plants being extended in a number of states.

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Speaker 3: There are headlines about nuclear plants being restarted to get

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Speaker 3: enough power, and so this is just a tremendous thing

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Speaker 3: that's going to stop the green movement in its tracks.

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Speaker 3: And we're already seeing a lot of whaling and gnashing

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Speaker 3: of teeth from the environmental movement about this demand for

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Speaker 3: artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 2: Are we building any more nuke plants?

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Speaker 3: Well, the thing about new plants, I don't think there

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Speaker 3: are any new ones being built. The light had We

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Speaker 3: just built a couple in Georgia that went online last year.

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Speaker 3: But they're restarting a nuclear plant in Michigan, the Palisades

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Speaker 3: that was shut down in twenty twenty two. They've extended

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Speaker 3: the Diablo Canyon plant, the last nuclear plant in California,

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Speaker 3: to twenty thirty that was supposed to shut down this year.

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Speaker 3: And Microsoft has contracted to restart one of the three

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Speaker 3: Mile Island plants in West Pennsylvania. That's not the one

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Speaker 3: that had the problem with the meltdown, but it's the

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Speaker 3: other plants. But these have been big headlines and they

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Speaker 3: need this power to run artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 2: California has mandated by twenty thirty five to have no

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Speaker 2: more new gasoline powered cars on the road. What's that

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Speaker 2: going to do?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: We don't have enough power plants for plug in centers.

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Speaker 2: What's going to And electric car sales Tesla sales are

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Speaker 2: plummeting right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: That's the third big factor. We have Trump, We have

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Speaker 3: the demand for electricity, and then electric car sales are

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Speaker 3: having troubles. They had allows a year in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: US share was up a little bit but not much.

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Speaker 3: EB pickup trucks have been a failure. They only have

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Speaker 3: one percent share of the US auto market. In Europe,

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Speaker 3: we had EV sales that fell and the share declined

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Speaker 3: fifteen percent. And as you say, Tesla sales fell for

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Speaker 3: the first time since twenty twelve. Also this month in January,

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Speaker 3: EV sales in China are down about fifty percent. China

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Speaker 3: has been holding up the world markets, so we is

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Speaker 3: problem with EV's And then mister Trump has said he's

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Speaker 3: going to try and get rid of the seventy five

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Speaker 3: hundred tax credit for new electric vehicle sales. He's also

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Speaker 3: stopped funding for the charging and fueling infrastructure, the discretionary

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Speaker 3: Grant program, there was two and a half billion dollars there,

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Speaker 3: and he stopped funding for the five billion National Electric

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Speaker 3: Vehicle Infrastructure Formula program. These were all going to build

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Speaker 3: EV charging stations, which don't make any money. There isn't

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Speaker 3: an EV charging company that's breaking even. They're all relying

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Speaker 3: on government and state money, and mister Trump's going to

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Speaker 3: shut that off. So the EV market is facing a

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Speaker 3: real tough time going forward. And that's another big impact

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Speaker 3: to green energy.

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Speaker 2: You wrote an article for the Wall Street Joureral on

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Speaker 2: let them battery fires. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. A corollary to this green movement is we have

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Speaker 3: governments pushing everybody use lithium batteries for cars and for

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Speaker 3: grid scale and for all sorts of issues. And now

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Speaker 3: we have a worldwide lithium fire epidemic. Many many examples.

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Speaker 3: A Mercedes Benz car that was produced in China a

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Speaker 3: few months ago was sitting, wasn't even charging, sitting in

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Speaker 3: a parking garage in Korea. It exploded and it burned

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Speaker 3: up one hundred and forty vehicles. We just had a

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Speaker 3: fire three weeks ago in Wilbraham, Massachusetts. They got five

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Speaker 3: new ev buses. These things hadn't even been put into

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Speaker 3: service yet. They were just sitting outside. One of them

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Speaker 3: exploded and it burned up. For those buses never in service.

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Speaker 2: What would make it explode like that.

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Speaker 3: Well, these electric batteries have very high energy density, and

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Speaker 3: if they get wet or they have some other problem,

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Speaker 3: they can self ignite and you can't put them out.

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Speaker 3: They produce their own oxygen when they're burning, so they

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Speaker 3: just let these things. In Massachusetts, for example, they just

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Speaker 3: let them burn out. They didn't even try to put

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Speaker 3: water on them. But a question for your audience, what's

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Speaker 3: the biggest source of fires in New York City right now?

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Speaker 3: And the answer is e bike battery fires? Lithium batteries

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Speaker 3: from e bikes. They had two hundred and sixteen fires

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Speaker 3: last year and they've become the biggest source of fires

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Speaker 3: in New York City and Toronto they had more than

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Speaker 3: fifty fires. In Australia last year they had ten thousand

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Speaker 3: lithium battery fires. They're getting over ten thousand fires a year,

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Speaker 3: So this is a worldwide epidemic. And again it's part

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Speaker 3: of the thing is the governments are pushing everybody use

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Speaker 3: these battery cars and other applications, and it is just

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Speaker 3: causing big problems.

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Speaker 2: They ignite that easily.

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Speaker 3: Well, they do, and and you know, if they get wet,

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Speaker 3: they will ignite, or if there's some sort of a

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Speaker 3: problem with how they were designed, or in the case

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Speaker 3: of an a bike battery, even if you have a

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Speaker 3: very good quality battery, if it's damaged at all, if

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Speaker 3: you bump something when you're when you're you're riding it,

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Speaker 3: or if you put it on a lousy charger, it

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Speaker 3: can also ignite. And when these things ignite, they explode.

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Speaker 3: And they've had many apartments in New York now where

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Speaker 3: they've had an e bike in a storage or in

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Speaker 3: the basement and the thing exploded and burned up the building.

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Speaker 3: So I've we have a condo in Virginia Beach and

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Speaker 3: I told my property manager, we don't want e bikes.

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Speaker 3: No e bikes at our at our when we're running

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Speaker 3: to people.

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Speaker 2: Steve, what's your take on the spate of fires in

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Speaker 2: California over the past month.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there was just a well you know, there were

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Speaker 3: there were a bunch of fres that were caused by

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Speaker 3: the Santa Ana winds coming out of Nevada, and well

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Speaker 3: what started the fire, Well, it's really a test. Well,

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Speaker 3: it could be many, many things that started the fire.

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Speaker 3: Some have said, you know, it's it's even homeless people

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Speaker 3: with flames. But once there's a fire and these tremendous

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Speaker 3: winds get a hold of it, it can get very

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Speaker 3: very big. And the other problem with California is for

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Speaker 3: years they have not taken care of their forests. They

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Speaker 3: have and a study called the Little Hoover Commission did

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Speaker 3: a study in twenty eighteen and said there had been

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Speaker 3: one hundred years of fire suppression in California and it

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Speaker 3: pointed out that fires there's something that forests need to

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Speaker 3: stay healthy. That same year in twenty eighteen, the US

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Speaker 3: Forest Service, so there were one hundred and forty seven

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Speaker 3: million dead trees in California. And so there's so much

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Speaker 3: brush and there's so much fuel in these forests, and

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Speaker 3: then if you add the Santa Ana winds, once get started,

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Speaker 3: it's very difficult to put out. So they really need

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Speaker 3: and governition has complained about climate change all the time

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Speaker 3: starting fires, but he really should be working on forest management.

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Speaker 3: That's the key, not stopping climate change.

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Speaker 2: Steve, what would you grade our energy policy right now

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Speaker 2: on all.

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Speaker 3: It's a mix. You know, We've had a lot of

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Speaker 3: people have said that we lost our energy when during

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Speaker 3: the Biden administration, but actually both our natural gas output

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Speaker 3: and our petroleum output grew. We're the biggest producer in

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Speaker 3: the world of natural gas and petroleum. We have been

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Speaker 3: for a number of years, despite the Biden administration efforts

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Speaker 3: to restrict licenses those sorts of things. We have the

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Speaker 3: lowest cost energy in the world. Really, our electricity prices

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Speaker 3: are half or a third of Europe's price, and we're

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Speaker 3: shipping natural gas all over the world. We kept the

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Speaker 3: lights on in Europe when Russia cut off the supplies

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Speaker 3: by shipping natural gas to Europe. So we're very strong.

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Speaker 3: But mister Trump wants to make it stronger, and you know, drill,

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Speaker 3: baby drill, and all those sorts of things which are

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Speaker 3: part of his executive orders.

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Speaker 2: I've been an advocate for more than twenty years to

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Speaker 2: protecting our power grid from solar flares or EMP attacks. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we haven't gotten anybody to fix them yet.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we've been putting an intermittent wind and solar,

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Speaker 3: and we're getting very close to the edge and many

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Speaker 3: of these places the margins are going down. And then

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Speaker 3: we've got this tremendous ai demand. I mean, it really

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Speaker 3: is astonishing what's going on. And a bunch of cities, Atlanta,

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Speaker 3: for example, it has banned new data centers within the

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Speaker 3: city limits.

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Speaker 1: Why but so.

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Speaker 3: They're building them in the counties all around Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: That's where the jobs are going.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they are in many ways. So there's a tremendous

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Speaker 3: demand for electricity. Hopefully we won't have a big EMP

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Speaker 3: thing or a big solar thing that knocks out some

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Speaker 3: of the some of the power.

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Speaker 2: If you had a magic wand Steven and you could

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Speaker 2: waive it to fix our energy policy, what would you

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Speaker 2: do well.

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Speaker 3: I think mister Trump is doing a pretty good job.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, he has done some things like

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Speaker 3: he's closed he canceled five Biden executive orders. He's closed

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Speaker 3: the Climate Change Support Office, and these are what his

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Speaker 3: executive orders say. He's closed the American Climate Core, He's

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Speaker 3: closed the Working Group on the Social Cost of greenhouse Gases.

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Speaker 3: He has stopped funding coming from the Inflation Reduction Act,

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Speaker 3: and from the Infrastructure Investment in Jobs Act. He's doing

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Speaker 3: a thing they're called impoundment.

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Speaker 2: And he's done it all in a week.

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Speaker 3: He's done it all in a week. Now he's going

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Speaker 3: to get some pushback in the courts, and I think

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Speaker 3: eventually he's going to have to go to Congress to

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Speaker 3: get a bunch of these things to try and reduce

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Speaker 3: some of those acts. But we have whole industries that

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Speaker 3: are getting money that really shouldn't exist. Even vehicle charging,

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Speaker 3: nobody can make money on that. We have all these

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Speaker 3: carbon dioxide capture programs, green hydrogen programs, carbon dioxide pipelines.

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Speaker 3: There are just many of these things that would not

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Speaker 3: exist without all this federal money. There's no economic basis

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Speaker 3: for them. So he's going to remove a bunch of that.

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Speaker 3: We're going to see a lot of companies that are

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Speaker 3: going to go out of business.

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Speaker 2: Steve Gorm's website is his name. His books, as he mentioned,

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Speaker 2: are available through his website, which we have linked up

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Speaker 2: for you at coastocostam dot com. Do you see electric

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Speaker 2: power gaining any ground at all?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think so. As I said, they're going to

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Speaker 3: stop closing these plants and maybe a big winner is

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Speaker 3: going to be natural gas. You know, the thing about

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Speaker 3: the nuclear is it takes about ten years to build

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Speaker 3: a nuclear plant, and it's four or five times as

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Speaker 3: expensive as a natural gas plant.

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Speaker 2: And by that time it's outmodeled. Right, So you can.

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Speaker 3: Build a gas plant in three years and it's cheaper.

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Speaker 3: And there are two hundred natural gas plants that are

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Speaker 3: being planned or constructed in the United States right now.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't get much headlined, but that's that's really the

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Speaker 3: thing that is going to fill in a lot of

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Speaker 3: the need.

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Speaker 2: Two hundred yep, what's the investment on something.

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Speaker 3: Like that, Well, it's very very high. I don't have

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Speaker 3: a number for that, but we actually closed in the

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Speaker 3: last two decades, we closed two hundred coal fired power plants,

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Speaker 3: so we still have about two hundred remaining, but those

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Speaker 3: are going to be extended. But the other thing is

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Speaker 3: mister Trump called an energy emergency, which a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are reacting to in kind of a crazy way.

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Speaker 3: But I think what he really wants to do is

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Speaker 3: eliminate a lot of the roadblocks to constructing a pipeline

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Speaker 3: or constructing a new power plant. That's what he wants

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Speaker 3: to do. He wants to be able to construct those faster,

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Speaker 3: and that's the purpose for his executive order on an

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Speaker 3: energy emergency, not some other factor.

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Speaker 2: Do you still see the gasoline powered car to stick around?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's going to be a mix in

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Speaker 3: the future. And hey, I'm not against electric cars. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you want to cool tesla, or if you're going

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Speaker 3: a short distance or you live in the South where

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Speaker 3: the cold weather doesn't affect them, that's great. The problem

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Speaker 3: is that we have twenty two states now that are

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Speaker 3: trying to force all sales of gasoline cars to be

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Speaker 3: over by twenty thirty five, and mister Trump his executive

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Speaker 3: orders are attacking those rules. He's going to push back

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Speaker 3: on those. Let's give people a choice to choose the

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Speaker 3: car that they want and quit thinking that. You know,

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Speaker 3: we can make the storms less severe if we all

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Speaker 3: drive an electric car.

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Speaker 2: And what would you do with all the gasoline stations

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Speaker 2: shut them down?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: One of the things about electric cars is people like

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Speaker 3: to charge at home, So eighty percent of charging is

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Speaker 3: done at home, which means there isn't much business for

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Speaker 3: all these these ev charging area stations. They want to

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Speaker 3: put in you could imagine with gasoline, if you if

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Speaker 3: you took away eighty percent of a gas station's business,

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Speaker 3: could they Could they still exist? Probably not. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: we've got to get back into a balance with energy

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Speaker 3: policy and let the market roll out things that it

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Speaker 3: wants that people want to buy.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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