WEBVTT - Fight Fire with Fire

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff

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<v Speaker 1>works dot com. Hey guys, and welcome to the podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Alison Madamer like the science Center at how

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<v Speaker 1>stuff wriks dot com. And this is Robert Lamb Signs

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<v Speaker 1>writer at how stuff works dot com. Hey Allison, Hey Robert.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think of when you hear the phrase

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<v Speaker 1>fight fire with fire? Well, I think of a song

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<v Speaker 1>and it goes a little something like this, do others

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<v Speaker 1>as they do? Do you? So on and so on.

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<v Speaker 1>It's fight fire with fire, Yes, the classic fight fire

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<v Speaker 1>with Fire from the Metallica album Ride the Lightning. Indeed,

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<v Speaker 1>Metallica is a fine man. Yeah, at one point I

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<v Speaker 1>was really into him. Back in college, I think, what

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<v Speaker 1>do you think of well? When well, Also, when I

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<v Speaker 1>was in college, I took a bunch of Shakespeare classes,

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<v Speaker 1>So I remember a certain line from the Life and

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<v Speaker 1>Death of King John which went a little something like

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<v Speaker 1>this be stirring as the time be fire with fire threatened,

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<v Speaker 1>the threatening and outface the brow of bragging horror. So

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<v Speaker 1>this phrase has clearly been around the black. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>Shakespeare is invoking it, and talk has been invoking it exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's you know, it's pretty simple. Meet violence with violence.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, an eye for and eye, if you prefer

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<v Speaker 1>the biblical one. He sends one of yours to the hospital,

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<v Speaker 1>you send one of his to the morgue, the Chicago

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<v Speaker 1>way exactly. But does it make any literal sense? That's

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<v Speaker 1>the question, right, Can you really fight fire with fire? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you hurl a ball of flames out of fire?

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<v Speaker 1>And is that going to do any good? Um? It

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<v Speaker 1>might be entertaining, Um, that kind of thing might fly

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<v Speaker 1>burning man, but it's it's not really gonna actually fight

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<v Speaker 1>a fire. It's a lot less exciting than that, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But to a to a certain extent, yes, firefighters do

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<v Speaker 1>fight fire with fire. They use fire um as a

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<v Speaker 1>means of either preventing or um hall thing or just

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<v Speaker 1>redirecting the course of wildfires and forest fires. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>let's review it for a second. I know, you guys

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<v Speaker 1>know what fire is. Of course, it's a chemical reaction.

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<v Speaker 1>It requires oxygen and fuel, and if you take one

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<v Speaker 1>or the other away, your fire is going to die

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<v Speaker 1>out right, right. So one way people have done this

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<v Speaker 1>in the past, um, you know, to throw some water

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<v Speaker 1>on it. Hey, that's yeah, basically robbing him. But if

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<v Speaker 1>it's robbing the fire of its oxygen and the same

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<v Speaker 1>deal if you've ever seen like an old John Wayne

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<v Speaker 1>movie or there will be blood. You have an oil

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<v Speaker 1>rig fire, you know, you have just a limitless or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe not limitless, but you have a um this constant

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<v Speaker 1>flow of of combustible material coming out of the ground

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<v Speaker 1>and the fires just raging and raging. Then they throw

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<v Speaker 1>in a stick of dynamite. It's a big explosion, and

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<v Speaker 1>then all you have is just the oil going up.

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<v Speaker 1>So you still have plenty of fuel for the fire,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's no more fire because you took away the

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<v Speaker 1>oxygen with the blast, right, So this sounds like kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a dangerous way to to fight a fire. It

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<v Speaker 1>makes me a little uncomfortable. But it has worked in

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<v Speaker 1>the past, and there are actually some pretty cool stories

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<v Speaker 1>about this. One guy who specialized in fighting oil wil fires.

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<v Speaker 1>I read a really need article on Time about it,

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<v Speaker 1>and he would go around and this was his job.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds extraordinarily dangerous to me. I think I prefer

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<v Speaker 1>the life of an editor. Oh yes, well, well you

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<v Speaker 1>also have to put out fires as an editor. But

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<v Speaker 1>but this is already guy you're talking about. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think you'd really do that great of a job against

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<v Speaker 1>a forest fire or wildfire, because that's going to take

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of dynamite to put out, say you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a square acre of flame. Um, So yeah, you really

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<v Speaker 1>can't um take away the oxygen for it for that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a fire, but you can take away, um,

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<v Speaker 1>it's fuel. And that's where fighting fire with fire really

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<v Speaker 1>comes into its own right. So they're two basic strategies

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<v Speaker 1>with fighting fire with fire. You have the preemptive let's

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<v Speaker 1>let's take care of this beforehand. Let's get all the

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<v Speaker 1>fuel out of here. Let's look around my my home

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<v Speaker 1>site and gee, that pile would leaning up against the

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<v Speaker 1>house really isn't such a good idea. Yeah, It's like

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<v Speaker 1>if you live in say New York or London, and

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<v Speaker 1>you see the signs that say please don't feed the rats,

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<v Speaker 1>don't leave food out. You know, I don't want rats

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<v Speaker 1>in my house, so I shouldn't leave a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of junk food laying in the floor or throw it

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<v Speaker 1>down in the street. You know, it's a preemptive move

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<v Speaker 1>to remove the substance that the enemy will consume to

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<v Speaker 1>put Another great analogy that we're talking about is the

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<v Speaker 1>uh the war analogy. This is a when you institute

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<v Speaker 1>a control burn and remove the fuel through a control burn,

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<v Speaker 1>you are it's it's like going out and digging a

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<v Speaker 1>moat to keep an advancing army from getting to you. Okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I see that. I will say that I feel obligated

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<v Speaker 1>to throw this in. Occasionally you have controlled burns that

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<v Speaker 1>do get out of control, like I read about one

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<v Speaker 1>in back in two thousand UM in New Mexico where

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<v Speaker 1>the National Park Service set a controlled burn um and

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<v Speaker 1>end up consuming something like two hundred homes. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not that's not the ideal. Yeah, the the the idea,

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<v Speaker 1>of course is you're gonna you're gonna set the fire

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<v Speaker 1>under control circumstances, you're gonna watch it, you're gonna have

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<v Speaker 1>you know, water on hand, etcetera. UM, and you're just

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<v Speaker 1>going to go ahead and let nature take its course

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<v Speaker 1>to a certain extent under control circumstances. Because it's easy

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<v Speaker 1>to forget this um since fire is such a hindrance

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<v Speaker 1>to human endeavor and in human uh um, you know, settlements, etcetera.

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<v Speaker 1>That as farest fire or wildfire is really part of

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<v Speaker 1>the natural process. In many ecosystems, right, absolutely, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>just like you can live in a flood zone or

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<v Speaker 1>you can live in a fire zone, and vegetations dependent

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<v Speaker 1>on it. Um. You know, it's the way that the

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<v Speaker 1>canopy and the trees might be controlled, you know, so

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<v Speaker 1>that there was an excessive growth, sequoias actually depend on fire. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this square seeds actually remain dormant until the fire breaks

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<v Speaker 1>down the outer coating, and a number of other plants

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<v Speaker 1>have grown, if not to depend upon the fire, um

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<v Speaker 1>to at least whether the storm of regular wildfires. So

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<v Speaker 1>so when you see something, if you happen to see

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<v Speaker 1>somebody performing a control burn, you know, don't feel sorry

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<v Speaker 1>for the vegetation because there's a good chance. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>this is this is something they've evolved to deal with, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the ultimate goal of the control of burns

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<v Speaker 1>a firebreak. It's a gap, that's what you're really looking

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<v Speaker 1>at there. Yeah, it's just it's leg. We're saying, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a moat to keep the advancing army the flame from

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<v Speaker 1>reaching um, you know, your fortress, all right, So let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the armies a little closer. They're they're encroaching

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<v Speaker 1>upon our moat. Yeah, yeah, This is where the analogy

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<v Speaker 1>would would be more if you go out and say,

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<v Speaker 1>destroy the bridge to keep the to keep the army

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<v Speaker 1>from advancing. Right, the wildfires rampaging at this point, right,

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<v Speaker 1>the rats are closing in and the only thing you

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<v Speaker 1>can do is just get rid of all the food.

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<v Speaker 1>So so yeah, this is this is backfiring. You just

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<v Speaker 1>go out and um and they start instituting a control burn, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>so as to either to cut off the flames or

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<v Speaker 1>to redirect them. So backfires ultimately may not stop the fire,

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<v Speaker 1>but they may divert it, right, they'll, yeah, they'll at

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<v Speaker 1>least you know, the idea is to divert the flames

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<v Speaker 1>away from a settlement or or another area that's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>laden with fuel. Yeah, and that's where you get those

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<v Speaker 1>cool tools like fire torches and propean torches or drip torches. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>The drip torches are the ones you really see a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of. And this this kind of looks like a

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<v Speaker 1>little handheld canister. It's just dripping flaming liquid. Um. And

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<v Speaker 1>the ideas they just go out there and then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you can start doing basically a line of flame on

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<v Speaker 1>the ground. It's not a flamethrower, but it's uh, it

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<v Speaker 1>is an implement that drips flame. A propane torches are

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<v Speaker 1>a little more flame there were like, but but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're those are the key implemency see used and

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<v Speaker 1>the of course the proplane torches particularly interesting. That well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's because when we were researching this, I found um

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<v Speaker 1>an ad for one on a gardening website and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>it just has tons of uses just around around the house.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, sure, you want to burn some weeds, because

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<v Speaker 1>I love how this ad points out that you can

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<v Speaker 1>have more fun this way. Pulling weeds that's kind of boring,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you can set fire to them. Imagine we're

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<v Speaker 1>not advocating this, but so this this appeals to the

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<v Speaker 1>pyromaniac and the gardener lake right, yeah, and apparently you

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<v Speaker 1>can use it to like you need to use the

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<v Speaker 1>driveway needs to be de iced, You don't need salt

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<v Speaker 1>or de icing agent. You need a propane torch. Good lord.

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<v Speaker 1>You can sterilize bird and animal cages, etcetera. Anyway, that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's a whole tangent. So that's how you fight fire

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<v Speaker 1>with fire. So do you feel feel a little better

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<v Speaker 1>about the flames now fire has wildfires, I will say

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<v Speaker 1>I feel a little better about wildfires. Um, However, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't feel all that good about leaving my curling irons on. Still,

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<v Speaker 1>I still might be a little I'm nervous about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe the toaster, I'm still gonna plug it. I think

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<v Speaker 1>good call. I'm gonna go home and check on my

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<v Speaker 1>coaster too. So if you want to learn more about

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<v Speaker 1>anything from toasters to fire breathing, to firefighters to weather,

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<v Speaker 1>an iPod can set your pants on fire, head on

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<v Speaker 1>over to how stuff works dot com or check out

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<v Speaker 1>the blogs that blogs dot how stuff works dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening for more on this and thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>other topics because at how stuff works dot com. Want

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