WEBVTT - Denis McDade

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<v Speaker 1>It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to

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<v Speaker 1>you every Wednesday. This week's guests Dennis McDade. I was

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<v Speaker 1>down in Australia a couple of weeks ago and got

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<v Speaker 1>to spend some time with Dennis. He's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>best golf instructors on the planet on the advisory board

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<v Speaker 1>at the Titleist Performance Institute. But I think he's most

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<v Speaker 1>known currently right now is he's the coach for Mark Leishman.

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<v Speaker 1>He's done a great job with his golf swing, but

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<v Speaker 1>he to me is at the forefront of junior golf

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<v Speaker 1>development and that is a lot of what this pod

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<v Speaker 1>this week is about. Having an opportunity to sit down

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<v Speaker 1>with Dennis and pick his brain about junior golf, junior

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<v Speaker 1>golf development, how he works with juniors. He has been

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<v Speaker 1>at the forefront of junior golf development, helped the guys

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<v Speaker 1>at the Titleist Performance Institute, doctor Greg Rose and Dave Phillips.

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<v Speaker 1>Dave's been on the pod as well numerous times, but

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<v Speaker 1>really helped kind of redesign their team junior program and

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<v Speaker 1>it was a game changer for me. It's completely changed

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<v Speaker 1>the way that I teach juniors. We get into how

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<v Speaker 1>to teach juniors what to look for. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>cool things about getting to travel is you sometimes run

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<v Speaker 1>into people that you don't see on a regular basis.

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<v Speaker 1>Dennis lives down in Australia, so I see him a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of times a year. But being down in all's

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<v Speaker 1>got to sit down, take a deep dive into junior

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<v Speaker 1>golf development, junior golf instruction. So if you're a junior golfer,

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<v Speaker 1>if you have junior golfers in your life as coach

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<v Speaker 1>or as a parent, and if you're a junior listening,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a great one. And Dennis, like I said,

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<v Speaker 1>he is at the forefront of junior golf development. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think everyone's going to get a lot out of this.

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<v Speaker 1>Sit back and enjoy listening to Dennis McDade, Dennis Year

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<v Speaker 1>and I've known each other a long time. For those

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<v Speaker 1>listening that don't kind of know your background, obviously, coach

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Leishman, you've worked with a ton of players. You're

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<v Speaker 1>on the your senior advise reboard at the Titless Performance Institute.

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<v Speaker 1>We had d Phillips on a couple of weeks ago

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<v Speaker 1>after John Rahm winning. Definitely want to get into that.

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<v Speaker 1>But for everyone listening kind of tell your background and

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<v Speaker 1>how you got into golf and golf instruction.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I was. I was when I was a

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<v Speaker 2>much younger person human. I was a competitive swimmer. So

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<v Speaker 2>between the age and yeah, there you go. So between

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<v Speaker 2>the age and I'm going to say eight and thirteen

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<v Speaker 2>to fourteen, I was a competitive swimmer. Was it was

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<v Speaker 2>an outdoor pool, so we'd trained sort of spring through

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<v Speaker 2>summer and autumn and then winter there was there was

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<v Speaker 2>no swimming. It was an outdoor pool. And to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>back there, I got to the stage where it was

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<v Speaker 2>really hard to jump in the cold pool at the

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<v Speaker 2>start and the end of the season. So so Dad,

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<v Speaker 2>who was a Scott, played a bit of golf and

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<v Speaker 2>then during winter I started going out with him and

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<v Speaker 2>just at the local un civil course and got the bug.

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<v Speaker 1>And you like about golf at an early age, what

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<v Speaker 1>I really liked was just the interaction with the other juniors.

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<v Speaker 2>So where I was in Victoria, which is in the

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<v Speaker 2>south of Australia, juniors at a golf well, first of all,

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<v Speaker 2>you could join as a junior. Secondly, could plane competitions

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<v Speaker 2>even on weekends. You could plane club championships, but every

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<v Speaker 2>school holiday, my dad was a construction form and he

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<v Speaker 2>dropped me off at the course on the way, dropped

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<v Speaker 2>me off at the course on the way to work,

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<v Speaker 2>and he picked me up on the way home. So

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<v Speaker 2>I just spent my holidays at the golf course with

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<v Speaker 2>my buddies. And I really that really appealed to me,

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<v Speaker 2>that that social side of things, and you know, being

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<v Speaker 2>able to play in practice with people my own age.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the actual game. The actual game got me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and from a young age, I knew what

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to do. I wanted to be a tour player,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like I was all right. And obviously the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that I'm sitting here talking about coaching says that

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a foil player, But no, that was the the

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<v Speaker 2>start of me. It just golf hooked me really really quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like for all people, it was frustrating, but

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<v Speaker 2>it hooked me really quickly, and I just ended up

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<v Speaker 2>devoting my life to trying to be a player. And

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<v Speaker 2>then one of the things that I'm thankful for is

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<v Speaker 2>is the PJA professionals who I served my traineeship under.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they call it assistance in the US, assistance.

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<v Speaker 2>They were both. They both so it was Bruce Grant

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<v Speaker 2>Row Melbourne and Bob Spencer at keys Mcgolfer, the two

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<v Speaker 2>guys that I worked under. They both encouraged me to coach.

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<v Speaker 2>They said, hey, this is definitely part of being a

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<v Speaker 2>PG professional. You need to know how to repair a

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<v Speaker 2>golf club. Remember how to repair a golf club. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what I think for Simon.

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<v Speaker 1>Heads to know was, you know, sanded them down, learned

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<v Speaker 1>how to rewheip the shaft. Those are by gone days.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, explain to my son not that long ago what

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<v Speaker 2>it meant, because I still say I got it out

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<v Speaker 2>of the screws because they had.

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<v Speaker 1>We're also Jennis, we're also dating ourselves. So everybody listener

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<v Speaker 1>going down those guys are really all wooden golf clubs.

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<v Speaker 1>And you didn't just go by them and get shafts.

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<v Speaker 2>And no, and you didn't you didn't change your driver

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<v Speaker 2>every year and that sort of thing. But anyhow, so

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<v Speaker 2>so both my my bosses were great. They encouraged me

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<v Speaker 2>to coach and and and I knew before I finished

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<v Speaker 2>my traineeship that if things didn't work out as a player,

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to be a coach because I really

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<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the social interaction of that as well, like it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's a real relationship sort of thing. So so when

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<v Speaker 2>I played in Australia for probably three years or so

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<v Speaker 2>and then started to go down the path of coaching,

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<v Speaker 2>and my first coaching job I taught golfers hitting balls

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<v Speaker 2>into a net at a pitch and put course. That's

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<v Speaker 2>where I where I started out. And Goody's going to

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<v Speaker 2>start somewhere, that's right. That's so there were yes, it

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<v Speaker 2>was that was my start and and I think one

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<v Speaker 2>of the things I realized pretty quickly is I had

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<v Speaker 2>an idea what I was doing. So I went and

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<v Speaker 2>bought some equipment. So back in those days, it was

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<v Speaker 2>the big camera, like it had no shut of speed,

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<v Speaker 2>but big camera took the full VHS tape in the

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<v Speaker 2>side pack and out of the VHS recorder and TV

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<v Speaker 2>and I used to draw lines and I figured out

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<v Speaker 2>I still didn't know what I was doing. So it

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<v Speaker 2>was that point I went and started spending time with

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<v Speaker 2>some of the better known coaches around Melbourne to try

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<v Speaker 2>to learn some more. So I'd booked time with them

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<v Speaker 2>and I'd literally take my tapes along and just go, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>can I talked about some of the clients that I've

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<v Speaker 2>been working with and get your opinion on what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>doing and that sort of thing. So that's where I

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<v Speaker 2>started off with a fairly broad sort of stroke with

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<v Speaker 2>that people have spent time with and then gradually sort

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<v Speaker 2>of whittled that down to the to the people that

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<v Speaker 2>I was really getting some what I thought was really

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<v Speaker 2>good information from. So those people Dale Lynch, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Dale Lynch was one of those. Dale coached me a

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<v Speaker 2>bit when I was playing. Stephen Bahm spent some time

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<v Speaker 2>with you. I intrigues like a lot of different people

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<v Speaker 2>that I that I whose opinion I sought, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was sort of the start of me starting to get

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<v Speaker 2>a bit more of an idea of what not just

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<v Speaker 2>the technical aspects of coaching were, but the approach and

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<v Speaker 2>that sort of stuff. And then anyhow so I sort

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<v Speaker 2>of I sort of progressed and was coaching full time,

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<v Speaker 2>and to cut along story short, I ended up I

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<v Speaker 2>won a coaching scholarship to what was the then Australian

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<v Speaker 2>Institute of Sport Golf program. I was by this time,

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<v Speaker 2>I was in Queensland up on the Sunshine Coach Coast,

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<v Speaker 2>coaching a couple of places, and I got a coaching

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<v Speaker 2>scholarship with with the AIS program, and the head coach,

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunately passed away at quite a young age, was Ross Herbert.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was my first taste of elite, a proper

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<v Speaker 2>elite development program. And I thought I was pretty good coach.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I got into that program. I thought, wow,

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't even sort of scratched the service here yet,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And to spend time watching someone who was

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<v Speaker 2>so skilled not only coached the plays, but how he

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<v Speaker 2>structured the program. And then to see like that was

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<v Speaker 2>back in so I did ninety five, nineteen ninety five,

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<v Speaker 2>nine ninety six. I am dating myself there a bit,

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<v Speaker 2>but to see the marriage of the high performance coaching

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<v Speaker 2>but also the sports science and the sports medicine how

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<v Speaker 2>that all interacted. And then from there Steve Manadelnch with

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<v Speaker 2>the head coach and the assistant coach of the VIS program.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Victorians the sport which was you know, to

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<v Speaker 1>me is one of it is a legendary you know program,

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<v Speaker 1>it's to me, it's one of the seminal programs of golf,

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<v Speaker 1>of modern golf development. You guys kind of were at

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<v Speaker 1>the forefront coming from Australia, you know, not so much

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<v Speaker 1>doing it out of the limelight, but because this is

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<v Speaker 1>so far away. But what you guys were doing was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of groundbreaking stuff and it was kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>precursor to what I believe a lot of the US

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<v Speaker 1>college system does now.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, there's no doubt in my mind that that the

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<v Speaker 2>model that the that the VICE program was back then

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<v Speaker 2>and was carried through for quite some time was one

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<v Speaker 2>that was used as a template around the world for

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<v Speaker 2>pipe performance development of golfers. There's no doubt.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Badley, Jeff Ogilby, Stuart Appleby, well, all of kind

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<v Speaker 1>of that the last generation, the kind of pre Adam

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<v Speaker 1>Scott generation came out of the vis What was the

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<v Speaker 1>what was the goal of the of the v I

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<v Speaker 1>S Golf's program? What did you if you had to

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<v Speaker 1>like sum it up, what would you say? The goal was, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the goal.

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<v Speaker 2>Was to produce players who would achieve it international amateur

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<v Speaker 2>and especially professional levels. So the goal was to produce

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<v Speaker 2>top hundred players in the world or top fifty players

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<v Speaker 2>in the world. And ultimately, once you get to that stage,

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<v Speaker 2>you're now in that realm where you can produce major winners.

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<v Speaker 2>As well once you get to that level. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was very clearly a goal was to develop to develop

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<v Speaker 2>these young athletes into world class players who are winning

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<v Speaker 2>at the highest level. That was clearly the goal. And

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<v Speaker 2>when you've got a goal like that, you can actually

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<v Speaker 2>structure a program that's meeting those needs. It's not about

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<v Speaker 2>trying to make them play good for the next Ameur

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<v Speaker 2>event or an event in three months. The whole mindset

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<v Speaker 2>is around is okay, well we've got this let's say

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen year old male coming into the program. It's like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what do we want them to look like in their

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<v Speaker 2>mid twenties? And everything was structured working back from being

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<v Speaker 2>a world class an international players.

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<v Speaker 1>So kind of what the Olympic development does in other countries.

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<v Speaker 1>It just had never really been done in golf before, right,

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<v Speaker 1>really hadn't been golf and golf instruction and golf development

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't really been treated like you know, the Russian gymnastics system,

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<v Speaker 1>what they do in China and what they do at

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<v Speaker 1>all of these elite performance centers exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So from from our point of view at the at

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<v Speaker 2>the at the v I S, if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>just the numbers that would be coming through the state

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<v Speaker 2>if you like, you know, the number of like, our

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<v Speaker 2>numbers are smaller than say in the US, So we

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<v Speaker 2>structured a program going, well, we're only going to have

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<v Speaker 2>a finite number of players come through our system. We

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<v Speaker 2>need to put a program in place that helps every

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<v Speaker 2>single one of them achieve the highest level possible. So

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<v Speaker 2>it was it was a it was a very high

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<v Speaker 2>performance development focused program with that goal in mind that

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<v Speaker 2>we want these juniors and well so much juniors, but

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<v Speaker 2>these male and female athletes coming through the program to

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<v Speaker 2>win on PGA Tour, to win majors. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>as I said that, that was very clearly the goal

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<v Speaker 2>of the program.

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<v Speaker 1>Cut to the chase. You're on the advisory board at

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<v Speaker 1>the Titleist Performance Institute. I've had Dave Phillips on the

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<v Speaker 1>on the podcast number of times junior golf development. In

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<v Speaker 1>my opinion, you're at the forefront, and I think the

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<v Speaker 1>things that you did for junior golf development, it was

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<v Speaker 1>really kind of changed everybody's way of thinking. And I

0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.840
<v Speaker 1>think one of the amazing things, and I know you

0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:40.080
<v Speaker 1>said this, once junior golfers were tended to be taught

0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.760
<v Speaker 1>by the lowest person on the totem pole at the club,

0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.120
<v Speaker 1>an assistant golf pro who was a trainee. He didn't

0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:51.360
<v Speaker 1>know anything. He basically has a bunch of kids. They

0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.559
<v Speaker 1>don't know anything. So I remember at a TPI junior

0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 1>seminar once you said, what has happened in the past

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.560
<v Speaker 1>is amateurs teaching amateurs how to play golf?

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rookies coaching rookies.

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:09.200
<v Speaker 1>Rookies coaching rookies, and that that was so obvious that

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.359
<v Speaker 1>that was the wrong route to go to produce golfers

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 1>and try and get them in. But that's what happened

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.520
<v Speaker 1>for years and years and years.

0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 2>It was a real it was a real afterthought. And

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>when you think about I know, you've been very closely

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.000
<v Speaker 2>linked with TPI and all the work we've done. Once

0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:30.280
<v Speaker 2>you understand what needs to be done from you know,

0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.000
<v Speaker 2>let's say the age of you know, five through to

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 2>twenty years of age, you understand just how important it

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:41.440
<v Speaker 2>is for our coaches to be highly trained, Like there's

0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.960
<v Speaker 2>a huge market around the world to be a highly

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.319
<v Speaker 2>skilled junior coach. But that was certainly something that was

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.079
<v Speaker 2>missing in the air. I suppose when when I was

0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>learning to play golf, it was actually hard to get

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.520
<v Speaker 2>an experienced coach to give you a golf lesson, and

0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 2>it was just rookies coaching rookies, and it was just

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 2>if you sort of was deep en theory, right, throw

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.440
<v Speaker 2>them all in the deep end. Whoever swims, you survive,

0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.880
<v Speaker 2>you know. So I think that a big part of

0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.559
<v Speaker 2>what we've done at TPI. And I can't take credit

0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.960
<v Speaker 2>for all of it, you know, I'm one of an

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.400
<v Speaker 2>amazing advisory board. Is we basically stood back and just said, okay, well,

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.040
<v Speaker 2>with what we know about human growth and development from

0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 2>childhood through to adulthood, and what we know about how

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:31.120
<v Speaker 2>I suppose you should structure a golfer or a young

0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.760
<v Speaker 2>athlete who athlete, I'm sorry, who comes into your program

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 2>with no skill? How do you actually turn them into

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.840
<v Speaker 2>an athletic golfer? And that was the genesis of the

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:43.240
<v Speaker 2>whole TPI junior program. And I think the other thing

0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 2>that really has changed too, and it's kind of forced

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.480
<v Speaker 2>to rethink on the way we coached is I started

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.720
<v Speaker 2>playing golf when I was eleven. How old were you

0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>when you started? Probably younger?

0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean, listen, I didn't really play a lot

0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 1>of golf, but my background was I just like to

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.880
<v Speaker 1>watch my dad golf lessons, so I was trying to

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.760
<v Speaker 1>figure out the instruction side of it and that piece

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 1>of the puzzle. I mean, I've said this numerous times,

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 1>and for a long time I was embarrassed to say this,

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>but I'm not now. I was never a golfer at

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 1>any level. I didn't play junior golf. I didn't play

0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>high schol golf. I didn't play college golf. I didn't

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>play amateur golf. Golf wasn't cool. And I think this

0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 1>leads into what I was going to talk about with

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 1>junior golf. Golf when I was growing up, I'm fifty

0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>four in about a week's time. My dad was a

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.280
<v Speaker 1>golf instructor. He wasn't the person he is today. Golf

0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>wasn't cool when I was growing up, even though my

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 1>grandfather won the Masters in nineteen forty eight. But in

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 1>the eighties and nineties, golf wasn't what it was now,

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.000
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't seen as a sport. It wasn't seen

0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:45.400
<v Speaker 1>as athletic.

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 2>So if you look at that component what you've just

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.560
<v Speaker 2>said there, so if you look at golfers now, I

0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 2>think I used to call it an emergent demographic. It's

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>now demographic, and that's like the five to ten year

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.960
<v Speaker 2>old junior golf. Like they just weren't around when I

0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 2>was a kid. No one played golf when they were

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 2>six or seven or whatever. You'd play whatever the summer

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 2>and winter sports work. But we now we've got to

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.640
<v Speaker 2>a stage where I feel I get emails and phone

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 2>calls going, hey, I've got a three year old, when

0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.640
<v Speaker 2>can we sign up for the program. So it's like, well,

0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:19.480
<v Speaker 2>you need to be ready for that because you might

0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 2>not have a three year old in the program, but

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.320
<v Speaker 2>you can provide advice around what you do with that

0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 2>with that category of like that age I should say,

0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 2>of junior golfer. But to come back to your point

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.040
<v Speaker 2>around not being cool and not being athletic, we have

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 2>this this demographic of junior golfer and their sedentary so

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 2>they're not not as active. Like when I got home

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 2>from school when I was a kid, like I'd unlock

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the door, I'd throw the school bag inside the door,

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.120
<v Speaker 2>pull the door shut before mom could tell me to

0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 2>come to my homework, and they didn't see me till

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.560
<v Speaker 2>dark and I'd be playing cricket in the streets or

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 2>footy or soccer or whatever it was, and that was

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 2>our athletic development.

0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:02.640
<v Speaker 1>One of the things in going to all the junior

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 1>seminars that I've gone to and listened to you and

0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.959
<v Speaker 1>Greg and Dave talk, kids don't play anymore, right. They

0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:13.520
<v Speaker 1>don't climb trees, they don't play kick the can, they

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.720
<v Speaker 1>don't ride bikes, they get driven everywhere, they sit in chairs,

0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 1>they're on their phones all the time. And one of

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>the TPI mantras from a junior standpoint has been to

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 1>create athletes first, golfer. Second, we all teach regular people

0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.159
<v Speaker 1>to play golf. Right, you have a fifty five sixty

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.920
<v Speaker 1>year old person who's been playing golf their entire life.

0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>They're a business person, they don't really do anything athletic.

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:45.359
<v Speaker 1>It's very hard to train a non athlete to play golf.

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.439
<v Speaker 1>And I think one of the things that was just

0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 1>mind blowing to me, And again it seems it was

0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.199
<v Speaker 1>groundbreaking when you guys came up with it, but it

0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>was like, yeah, it's much easy. It's easy for me

0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 1>and you to work with tour players because they're skilled athletes. Right.

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 1>You can tell them to do things, you can get

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 1>them to do things they can do what you ask

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 1>them to do from an athletic physical scamper the technical

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.919
<v Speaker 1>side of things, that's something different. But having an athlete first,

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>and you know, if you get a golfer that comes

0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.040
<v Speaker 1>in and he's in his forties and he's played multiple

0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.280
<v Speaker 1>sports his whole life, he's in the gym, he's active

0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.800
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, they're much easier to coach and train and

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.719
<v Speaker 1>help improve than if they have no athletic ability.

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't agree more so. I think if they're and

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there aren't like any golf coach could relate

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 2>to this. You have like a I don't know, an

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.920
<v Speaker 2>eight or a nine year old boy or girl walking

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.119
<v Speaker 2>to your academy. They've never picked up a golf club.

0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 2>You show them how to hold a club and straight

0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.760
<v Speaker 2>away they go whosh, and you just go, my god,

0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 2>I've got a superstar in my hands because you're looking

0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.399
<v Speaker 2>at athletic expression and they're able to pick up a

0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.600
<v Speaker 2>golf club and apply that really quickly. But what a

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of people fail to realize is what's happened before

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 2>they've walked into your academy. Right, they're probably from the

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 2>age of since they can walk they've sampled all these

0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 2>different sports. They're a good or round athlete, and then

0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:15.800
<v Speaker 2>they can just express that when they hold a golf

0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 2>club and try to hit a golf ball, and if

0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.200
<v Speaker 2>you look at the other side of that, you get

0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.120
<v Speaker 2>that sentry child that we were just talking about, who

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.720
<v Speaker 2>come in and you go, my god, I'm going to

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.360
<v Speaker 2>have them work cut out here, And at least now

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.680
<v Speaker 2>we know rather than going, my god, how am I

0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:31.880
<v Speaker 2>going to teach them to play? Like? My mind set

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.760
<v Speaker 2>is straight away, I've got to turn them into a

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 2>better athlete, because if I can turn them into a

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.919
<v Speaker 2>better athlete, it makes it so much easier for me

0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 2>to teach them how to become a golfer. And one

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 2>of the things, and you've heard us talk about this,

0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.720
<v Speaker 2>the five reasons kids do sport right. Number one, it's

0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.320
<v Speaker 2>got to be fun. Number two, we've got to make

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 2>they've got to be able to do it with their

0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.879
<v Speaker 2>friends or make friends. Number three, they've got to feel welcome,

0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 2>so we want to talk about some of the country

0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.120
<v Speaker 2>clubs and what happens around the world. Number four, it's

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.040
<v Speaker 2>got to feel too, feel good to do. And the

0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:02.479
<v Speaker 2>other one is they've got to be good at it.

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.080
<v Speaker 2>So if you get a young junior coming to the

0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.199
<v Speaker 2>program they've got no athletic ability and they suck at golf,

0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.040
<v Speaker 2>they're probably not going to hang around too long. Right.

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 2>So our job is to actually as coaches, is to

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 2>is to recognize that assess them. We always assess. Don't

0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 2>guess right, We assess and we just go, hey, Jimmy

0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 2>or Jane, there's a couple of holes in your athletic

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.280
<v Speaker 2>development here. Golf can be a difficult game until we

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 2>get those, you know, sorted out.

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:32.160
<v Speaker 1>But don't worry.

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 2>You hang with us. We're going to sort those out.

0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:35.440
<v Speaker 2>You're going to be a good player, you know, eventually,

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 2>whatever approach you want to take. But being able to

0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.000
<v Speaker 2>understand that, you're not seeing lack of commitment or ability,

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>you're seeing a lack of athletic development, which makes it

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:47.440
<v Speaker 2>tough as coaches. Right.

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.320
<v Speaker 1>One of the things my grandfather said, and he passed

0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>it on to my father, and my father passed on

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.920
<v Speaker 1>to me. My dad used to always say, it's our

0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.959
<v Speaker 1>job to teach people to play golf, not teach golf

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.239
<v Speaker 1>to people. And I think a lot of what we

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.400
<v Speaker 1>used to do with juniors is we'd have these lessons

0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.119
<v Speaker 1>with a six seven year old, and we'd be trying

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.879
<v Speaker 1>to give them golf lessons like we give someone who's

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>been playing golf twenty years. Work on your grip, posture,

0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.600
<v Speaker 1>stance alignment. One of the things that was groundbreaking to

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:21.320
<v Speaker 1>me when I watched you all at TPI when you

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 1>developed your Junior Golf Cyclone. And I'd love for you

0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:29.800
<v Speaker 1>to talk about that. You guys were working with juniors

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 1>for an hour and kids that have never really they've

0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:35.720
<v Speaker 1>got a golf club in their hand for less than

0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>five to ten minutes of them. Talk about the Junior

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Golf Cyclone and how it came about. Because I know

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 1>part of that came about with you, because I've seen

0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 1>the videos and I've watched how you raised your children

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.359
<v Speaker 1>and the crazy things that your children were doing on

0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 1>jungle gym's where ives and I remember once saying, it's

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.560
<v Speaker 1>a good thing you don't live in America because someone

0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:00.439
<v Speaker 1>would sue you for allowing your children to play like that,

0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.320
<v Speaker 1>because kids don't do that anymore. But the Junior Golf Cyclone.

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Talk to me about what that is.

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:10.320
<v Speaker 2>So the Junior Golf Cyclone that basically aligns with the

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:15.480
<v Speaker 2>fundamentals phase in LTAD long Term Athlete Development, and basically

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 2>our philosophy there is we want to hook these kids

0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:18.800
<v Speaker 2>on golf.

0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.680
<v Speaker 2>So, but if you had a I don't know, a

0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 2>six year old boy and you had him hit balls

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:27.480
<v Speaker 2>for an hour and he's not very good, he's probably

0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:29.119
<v Speaker 2>going to get see a golf pretty quick, right, He's

0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:30.800
<v Speaker 2>going to end up really not enjoying himself.

0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Again, that's teaching golf to people. This is golf, this

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 1>is how you have to learn it, and if you

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.040
<v Speaker 1>can't learn it like that, well then golf just isn't

0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:40.280
<v Speaker 1>for you.

0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.119
<v Speaker 1>And that's I did that. I think everybody that's an

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:46.640
<v Speaker 1>instructor at some point that's listening to this. If you're

0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 1>an instructor, you did that. At some point you were saying, hey,

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:51.879
<v Speaker 1>this is golf. We're going to teach it to you,

0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and if you can't absorb it or do it, then

0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:56.560
<v Speaker 1>you need to find another sport.

0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.399
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So basically exactly right. So basically with the psyche plone,

0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.960
<v Speaker 2>our we get together. If I explain what happens, we

0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.600
<v Speaker 2>get together. We have some warm ups which are like

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>it's all age appropriate, right, So it's an age appropriate

0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 2>warm up. It's a bit of fun, but there is

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.400
<v Speaker 2>an intent behind that and it's developing what we call

0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>fundamental movement skills. So four categories of that. There's locomotion,

0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:24.879
<v Speaker 2>anything used to get from A to B, the ABC's agility, balance, coordination, speed,

0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:28.520
<v Speaker 2>object control, kicking, throwing, striking, punching.

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's another thing that's huge, hugely important in

0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.280
<v Speaker 1>junior golf development is the ability to kick, the ability

0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:40.520
<v Speaker 1>to throw, the ability to punch. One of the things

0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:44.879
<v Speaker 1>that I know that you guys at TPI came up

0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:50.080
<v Speaker 1>with that girls versus boys catching patterns, the ability to

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:55.080
<v Speaker 1>catch an object. It's very different in young boys versus

0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 1>young girls, but that is a fundamental pattern of trying

0:23:59.119 --> 0:24:02.720
<v Speaker 1>to find your in space, how to grasp an object.

0:24:02.760 --> 0:24:05.280
<v Speaker 1>There are so many things that you're asking someone to

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 1>do when they throw you a ball, but if you

0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:09.800
<v Speaker 1>don't know how to catch a ball and do that,

0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 1>it's very difficult to progress.

0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Correct, So you can, like with what we're talking

0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.159
<v Speaker 2>about here with the athletic development, I'll get back to

0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.560
<v Speaker 2>the cyclone at the moment you actually need a child,

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:27.359
<v Speaker 2>oh I think anyway, a child athletic development specialist. So

0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 2>the perfect. The perfect analogy I would give here with

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 2>this category of junior, with this early age junior is

0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 2>like the primary school in Australia, I think, do you

0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:41.400
<v Speaker 2>call it elementary school like elementary school in the US.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Like the sports teacher from the elementary school or from

0:24:45.000 --> 0:24:47.760
<v Speaker 2>primary school is perfect for this program because that's what

0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 2>that says, special jump rope. That s yes, specialty Ryan

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 2>is in developing that. So our cyclone basically we have

0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:58.879
<v Speaker 2>a warm up which and again it's not just warming up,

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:02.560
<v Speaker 2>there's an intent to that. Then we take our juniors

0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:06.640
<v Speaker 2>through a number of stations, okay, and it's all around

0:25:06.760 --> 0:25:09.480
<v Speaker 2>athletic development, and it's a golf program, so there's some

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:15.119
<v Speaker 2>golf stations. So in our cyclone program there are four

0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 2>athletic development stations if you like, and two golf stations.

0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:22.080
<v Speaker 2>So when I'm talking about a station, there will be

0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.480
<v Speaker 2>an activity in each one of those stations. So it

0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:28.959
<v Speaker 2>might be, hey, there's a target over the Volco target

0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.080
<v Speaker 2>over there. You've got to pick up one of those

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 2>balls and you've got to throw it at the target.

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Keep score if you like. Whatever. That's just an example, right,

0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:37.600
<v Speaker 2>and what we do in each one of those stations.

0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Because juniors have different juniors are at different stages of development.

0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 2>We can grade the difficulty, provide a little more challenge,

0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.480
<v Speaker 2>back off on the challenge a little bit, and then

0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:51.080
<v Speaker 2>the instructor is in there a bit like you spoke

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>about with coaching before. The instructors in there providing some

0:25:55.160 --> 0:25:59.359
<v Speaker 2>really age appropriate coaching if you like, around how to

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:01.640
<v Speaker 2>throw a better, or how to how to you know,

0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.080
<v Speaker 2>jump better, or whatever it is. And then there'll be

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 2>a couple of golf stations as well. And each one

0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 2>of those golf stations. By the way, it doesn't look

0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:11.760
<v Speaker 2>like you and I coaching an adult like there is

0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:16.479
<v Speaker 2>an outcome based activity. It's it's very much game based.

0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:19.560
<v Speaker 2>There might be one point of instruction, so I would

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:24.000
<v Speaker 2>use example that well. I always say this development sequential.

0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:26.280
<v Speaker 2>You can't start with calculus if you're learning maths, right,

0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:28.119
<v Speaker 2>You've got to start with with all the basics. So

0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 2>we do that in our program and just on that

0:26:32.760 --> 0:26:35.120
<v Speaker 2>haven't spoken about it yet. One of the great things

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:39.200
<v Speaker 2>that the advisory board did when we're having the discussions

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:41.439
<v Speaker 2>around this, and you've got you've got the likes of

0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.879
<v Speaker 2>Dr Ernstwick, who's a you know, who's a specialist in

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:47.920
<v Speaker 2>growth and maturation. Now what a man is Mile O'Bryant,

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:52.639
<v Speaker 2>Greg Rose, Istvan Bali. You know all of these these guys,

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:56.480
<v Speaker 2>and we've just said, hey, what's the best what's the

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.880
<v Speaker 2>best structure for learning in the world. We've just gone

0:26:58.880 --> 0:26:59.399
<v Speaker 2>all to school.

0:26:59.480 --> 0:26:59.680
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:02.680
<v Speaker 2>So, if you've got a young child and you take

0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:05.119
<v Speaker 2>them along to grade one, there's an expectation as a

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:06.879
<v Speaker 2>parent that when they come out at the end of

0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:09.080
<v Speaker 2>grade one, they're going to have certain they're going to

0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:10.679
<v Speaker 2>have been exposed to certain skills.

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Certain skills to allow them to go to grade two. Correct.

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>And that was our philosophy around structuring the program for

0:27:17.119 --> 0:27:19.919
<v Speaker 2>the cyclone and from there was two was going, right, well,

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:21.560
<v Speaker 2>what's grade one? What do we have in grade one?

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:23.680
<v Speaker 2>What do we having grade one from a golf point

0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 2>of view? What do we have in grade one from

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:27.720
<v Speaker 2>an athletic development point of view? How do we make

0:27:27.760 --> 0:27:31.119
<v Speaker 2>it fun, age appropriate and have them actually learn something?

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>Because what we want is we want our We want

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:36.520
<v Speaker 2>them coming back because we know we need them for

0:27:36.720 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 2>like ten years, right, we know that it's a minimum

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 2>of ten years. We need them four to turn them

0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:46.000
<v Speaker 2>into highly competent golfers. So that's where we so the

0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.439
<v Speaker 2>cyclone again sort of going backward and forwards. We start

0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.280
<v Speaker 2>with a warm up, we run through the stations. The

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>stations run from maximum of about four and a half

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to five minutes, so there's no getting stuck in a

0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:00.880
<v Speaker 2>station for twenty thirty minutes because when we're.

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Dealing with young kids, the retention span. But again, we

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:08.879
<v Speaker 1>used to expect a six year old kid to be

0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:12.480
<v Speaker 1>able to focus in a golf lesson teaching them golf

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:15.479
<v Speaker 1>stuff that you would be teaching to a forty five

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:19.600
<v Speaker 1>year old fifteen handicapper, and we would get as instructors,

0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>you get frustrated because the kid's not listening. But it

0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:26.280
<v Speaker 1>all now seems so simple in the way that you

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.000
<v Speaker 1>teach logically, the way you would do everything else.

0:28:31.600 --> 0:28:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly right. And that's the thing we were talking

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:39.800
<v Speaker 2>about rookies coaching rookies before. I think with what we

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 2>know now, when I look for a new junior golf coach,

0:28:45.840 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 2>I have one criteria and one criteria only, and that

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:52.800
<v Speaker 2>is you want to coach juniors. You're absolutely that's all

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:54.520
<v Speaker 2>you want to do is coach juniors. Because I feel

0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:57.800
<v Speaker 2>like I can give you everything else you need. Everything

0:28:57.800 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 2>else you need to be a great junior coach. I

0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:03.720
<v Speaker 2>have to have for teaching junior two cook story. I

0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.280
<v Speaker 2>moved from a facility. This is going back twelve years ago.

0:29:06.360 --> 0:29:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I moved from a facility where I built up a

0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>big junior program to the other side of town. It

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:15.760
<v Speaker 2>was like twenty five miles away, and we were starting

0:29:15.760 --> 0:29:19.840
<v Speaker 2>from scratch, and so we ran a school holiday program.

0:29:19.840 --> 0:29:24.760
<v Speaker 2>So we advertised around all the local elementary schools program schools,

0:29:25.400 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 2>and we had a whole bunch of juniors arrived and

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I said to the coach as I said, right, who

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 2>wants to be junior coach? And they all put the

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:34.720
<v Speaker 2>hand up and I thought, okay, well I'll give you

0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 2>a run. And anyhow, we ran this junior golf school,

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>and what I was really interested in is what the

0:29:41.920 --> 0:29:47.240
<v Speaker 2>coaches did in the breaks. So so I kind of

0:29:47.280 --> 0:29:48.600
<v Speaker 2>I kind of kept a bit of an eye on

0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:51.920
<v Speaker 2>what they were doing, and you know, they kind of

0:29:51.920 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 2>had a bit of an idea or not, and that

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>wasn't important to me. But there was one coach who

0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 2>in the break, like just about every kid in the

0:29:58.280 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>program was following around. He kind of looked at I'm

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 2>showing them away, and I've just gone, that's my junior

0:30:02.680 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 2>coach because the kids are gravitating to him. And kids

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 2>are very perceptive. Right, if you don't pass a sniff that,

0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>if you don't pass a sniff test with the kids,

0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.560
<v Speaker 2>you're done right. And out of all the coaches, they

0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:15.640
<v Speaker 2>just hung around him, and I just said, hey, you've

0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 2>got the makings of a junior coach. He said, he said,

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:19.720
<v Speaker 2>do you think really said, I didn't think I knew

0:30:19.760 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 2>what I was doing. I said, yeah, but the kid

0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 2>love you. And that was it. So he's actually still

0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 2>running my junior program out at Yarraban Public Course. He's

0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:30.200
<v Speaker 2>just done that ever since. And he's a great junior coach.

0:30:30.240 --> 0:30:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, give me Dennis for I know it's a generalization,

0:30:33.360 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 1>but for junior golfers and for junior golf parents, one

0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:41.600
<v Speaker 1>of the things that we know the worst case, and

0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I know this is the worst case for you. The

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 1>thirteen year old child whose parents took them out of

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>all other sports at six years old, and for the

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 1>last six years old, the twelve year old has done

0:30:56.200 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>nothing other than play golf. He's got a beautiful golf swing,

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 1>has no real athletic talent, has no real athletic development.

0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:07.520
<v Speaker 1>He just plays golf. You get those, I get those

0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 1>I hear all the time. No, No, my son just

0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:13.560
<v Speaker 1>focused on golf. Just focus on golf. My daughter should

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:16.520
<v Speaker 1>just focus on golf. What are the pitfalls that you

0:31:16.880 --> 0:31:21.520
<v Speaker 1>feel that that can cause with junior golfers and how

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>it can inhibit their development?

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:30.200
<v Speaker 2>So the first thing I would say is an moving

0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:33.040
<v Speaker 2>just as an extension of what we spoke about before

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.959
<v Speaker 2>and the structure of the cyclone program from an LTD.

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>From an lt a D point of view, there's a

0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 2>window that needs to be hit. Okay, and I didn't

0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 2>mention this when we were talking about cyclone. There's an

0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:49.440
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to build speed, right, So there are windows of

0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:54.320
<v Speaker 2>opportunity from the maturation from childhood to adulthood that you

0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.240
<v Speaker 2>and the easiest way to explain them for those parents

0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>who might be listening is there are times in that

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:05.200
<v Speaker 2>period from childhood to adulthood where the body is particularly

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 2>trainable for certain athletic attributes. So we talk about speed, strength, stamina, skill,

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:19.040
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. So, so what happens when there's been a

0:32:19.160 --> 0:32:22.440
<v Speaker 2>focus on golf early you will develop some of those

0:32:22.560 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 2>athletic attributes, but you won't develop all of them. And

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 2>as we know nowadays, like people are always talking about

0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 2>speed and there are two speed windows. Like if you've

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.320
<v Speaker 2>focused solely on golf from a young age and that's

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:37.760
<v Speaker 2>all you've done, you've probably missed that window, and that

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.960
<v Speaker 2>will put a ceiling on how fast you can be

0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:43.400
<v Speaker 2>if you like, when you're an adult.

0:32:43.480 --> 0:32:44.920
<v Speaker 1>What are those speed windows?

0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Speed windows now different for boys and girls? And you're

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>going to You've put me right on the spot here.

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say the first speed window for girls

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 2>is four to seven years of age biological aide. Second

0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:59.320
<v Speaker 2>speed window, sorry, first speed window for boys is six

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to nine years of age and biological age, not chronological

0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:05.320
<v Speaker 2>age because they all grow at different speeds. And then

0:33:05.480 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 2>the second window is that take off when they go

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>through the growth spurt. And I'll get this wrong, but

0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say it's thirteen to fifteen for boys,

0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and I think eleven to fourteen for girls. It's like that,

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.920
<v Speaker 2>it's like when they start growing fast, you train them fast, right,

0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:23.960
<v Speaker 2>That's how I thing. When they're growing fast, train them fast.

0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.720
<v Speaker 2>But that would be roughly correct. There'll be a few

0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>LTAD people just sort of look skywards when I said that,

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:33.920
<v Speaker 2>but it's basically there and I think that. Sorry, just

0:33:33.920 --> 0:33:37.160
<v Speaker 2>to answer your question, I think the danger with developing

0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:41.440
<v Speaker 2>skills only you get that illusion of success. So if

0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 2>you've got a skilled coach training a junior in all

0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:47.360
<v Speaker 2>the technical aspects of golf, they can go out there

0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>and perform at quite a high level as a junior,

0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:53.040
<v Speaker 2>but they're going to get overtaken by the athletes who

0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:57.000
<v Speaker 2>also develop their technical attributes along the same time. At

0:33:57.040 --> 0:33:59.280
<v Speaker 2>some stage they're going to get overtaken. So they might

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 2>be the ones who are, you know, winning the trophies

0:34:01.800 --> 0:34:04.360
<v Speaker 2>at a young age, but often they get overtaken. So

0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:09.279
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, we use the some of our

0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.080
<v Speaker 2>research suggests that I think it was three to four

0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:16.680
<v Speaker 2>percent of age division winners, junior age division winners around

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.520
<v Speaker 2>the world go on to achieve at professional level. So

0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 2>in my mind, it's like, I don't want to what's

0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:26.520
<v Speaker 2>there's no rushes shouldn't be focused on winning at those

0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:30.200
<v Speaker 2>age levels. There should be a focus on development, like

0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 2>even right through to sort of nearly college level. Right.

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that could be the reason why, Dennis

0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:39.239
<v Speaker 1>that I guess this is a generalization, but I see

0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.000
<v Speaker 1>more juniors that are better when they're fifteen and sixteen

0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:46.840
<v Speaker 1>than they are when they're twenty. Right, and the world beaters,

0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean they're winning. There are prolific golfers, and that

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:58.359
<v Speaker 1>jump from level to level to level. And you know,

0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:00.920
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of people playing golf at a

0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:04.120
<v Speaker 1>very very high level that are superstars that weren't necessarily

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:07.160
<v Speaker 1>great juniors. They weren't the best junior in their city,

0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:09.719
<v Speaker 1>they weren't the best junior in their state, their country,

0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:12.360
<v Speaker 1>and then you have these other kids. You know, I

0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:15.480
<v Speaker 1>always ask tour players, hey, when you were growing up,

0:35:16.719 --> 0:35:19.840
<v Speaker 1>was who was the g right? Who was the best player?

0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:23.839
<v Speaker 1>And who are you surprised that didn't make it? And

0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 1>every tour player will go, man, when I was when

0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:28.560
<v Speaker 1>I was a junior, when I was in high school,

0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:31.759
<v Speaker 1>even when I was in college, this kid was a

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.400
<v Speaker 1>absolute world beater stud and they just never made it.

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Why do you think that is? That's just such a

0:35:40.960 --> 0:35:43.440
<v Speaker 2>sad scenario where they've played the best golfer, They laugh

0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 2>between fifteen and seven eight, all right, like that says,

0:35:46.560 --> 0:35:49.520
<v Speaker 2>what the hell did we do wrong? You know? But

0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:53.759
<v Speaker 2>I look at that situation. I've seen it a lot

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:57.000
<v Speaker 2>if you look at So if you take that example

0:35:57.040 --> 0:35:59.960
<v Speaker 2>of the years before of someone who's focused solely on golf,

0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:04.200
<v Speaker 2>let's say, and they're developing those golf specific skills, and

0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:07.319
<v Speaker 2>then they get their growth spurt before everyone else. So

0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>now that not only have they got golf skill, they've

0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:13.120
<v Speaker 2>got the advantage of some early strength and size, right,

0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that they're better athletes. And at that stage

0:36:17.480 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 2>you've got golf specific skill that's been developed with the

0:36:20.600 --> 0:36:24.760
<v Speaker 2>addition of some length. And that growth spurt affects everyone differently.

0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 2>Some people, some juniors, hit the growth spurt and they

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 2>lose their they lose their skill. It's not unusual, and

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:33.759
<v Speaker 2>some don't. It's just it affects everyone differently. But I

0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:37.799
<v Speaker 2>think you know what happens is a lot of the

0:36:37.960 --> 0:36:40.480
<v Speaker 2>late bloomers. So if we talk about LTA D that

0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:44.440
<v Speaker 2>the ones that hit their growth spurt late, they spend

0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:47.680
<v Speaker 2>more time in skills phase. So after our cyclone program,

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:52.239
<v Speaker 2>we have our smash program, which is the easiest way

0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:54.759
<v Speaker 2>to put it, is like late elementary school age. We

0:36:54.800 --> 0:36:56.640
<v Speaker 2>always talk biological age, but I'm just trying to give

0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:58.479
<v Speaker 2>one a bit of an idea around it. And that's

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.160
<v Speaker 2>from an LTA D point of view, that skills phase, right,

0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:07.040
<v Speaker 2>So if you hit your growth spurt later, you can

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.640
<v Speaker 2>have an extra year developing or two developing your skills

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.400
<v Speaker 2>before you hit your growth spurt. Okay, so just remember

0:37:13.440 --> 0:37:16.800
<v Speaker 2>in our program, although I call it skills phase, you're

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 2>developing skills around all of your athletic hat reviews as well.

0:37:20.200 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 2>So now once those kids get or those juniors get

0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:30.640
<v Speaker 2>through the growth spurt and whatever challenges that's presented, they're

0:37:30.680 --> 0:37:34.560
<v Speaker 2>better athletes. They're as skilled, if not more skilled, because

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:37.719
<v Speaker 2>they spent more time in skills phase and they overtake

0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:44.280
<v Speaker 2>those juniors a lot of them anyway, that were early

0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:47.760
<v Speaker 2>bloomers and skills specific if you like, just focus solely

0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 2>on skill now some of them make it now, they

0:37:50.040 --> 0:37:54.120
<v Speaker 2>don't all fail. But with the way the game is nowadays,

0:37:54.160 --> 0:37:56.000
<v Speaker 2>like we know how much the game's changed over the

0:37:56.040 --> 0:37:59.600
<v Speaker 2>last sort of twenty to thirty years. Yeah, just lends

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:03.680
<v Speaker 2>itself to the ones that are as we say, athletes first,

0:38:03.719 --> 0:38:05.600
<v Speaker 2>golf sag and love for the game A lot build

0:38:05.640 --> 0:38:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a love for the game along the way.

0:38:06.800 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 1>What are some sports for junior golfers outside of golf

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:16.160
<v Speaker 1>that you think are really really important but also can

0:38:16.320 --> 0:38:18.880
<v Speaker 1>help develop golfers.

0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:22.160
<v Speaker 2>That's a great question because you can spend a lot

0:38:22.200 --> 0:38:25.200
<v Speaker 2>of time being a multi sport athlete and play all

0:38:25.239 --> 0:38:27.640
<v Speaker 2>the sports that really don't help golf much. Right, So

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:35.960
<v Speaker 2>I think the best sports, like golf's a ballistic rotary movement. Right.

0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:39.040
<v Speaker 2>So I look at any of the field sports, Olympic

0:38:39.120 --> 0:38:44.040
<v Speaker 2>field sports like you know, shot put, discus, hammer, any javelin,

0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.160
<v Speaker 2>any of that stuff, I'm just going, yeap, giddy up,

0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:48.520
<v Speaker 2>let's get in there. That's that's really going to help rotation.

0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 2>That's rotation. I think things like table tennis is really good,

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:57.399
<v Speaker 2>like starting to understand spin reaction, that sort of thing.

0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:03.919
<v Speaker 2>I really like volleyball for vertical jump and obviously there's

0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:08.000
<v Speaker 2>a rotation in spiking that sort of thing. And bad minton.

0:39:08.040 --> 0:39:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I really like bad minton as well for similar reasons.

0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Jam Plenty of one of the old world long drive guys.

0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:17.960
<v Speaker 1>He was a he was a competition badminton player. He

0:39:18.120 --> 0:39:20.440
<v Speaker 1>and everybody said, you know, here's a kid. He was

0:39:20.480 --> 0:39:22.960
<v Speaker 1>like one of the early long drive guys. But he

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 1>wasn't big, he wasn't a body builder, but he was

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:28.880
<v Speaker 1>able to create that kind of speed. One of the

0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:31.400
<v Speaker 1>other ones I know that that that you and Greg

0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:35.120
<v Speaker 1>and Davi at TPI talked about martial arts big for golf.

0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:37.680
<v Speaker 2>So if we yes, so, I would think if you

0:39:37.760 --> 0:39:41.000
<v Speaker 2>go backwards just a little bit, saying into a slightly

0:39:41.040 --> 0:39:46.760
<v Speaker 2>younger age, say even pre cyclone cyclone, I think martial

0:39:46.840 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 2>arts are great because it's training both sides of the body.

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Like when you work up and down the jojo, you're

0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:53.719
<v Speaker 2>using both sides of the body. That's the first day

0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:56.440
<v Speaker 2>you get there. That's trained right. And there's all sorts

0:39:56.440 --> 0:40:01.960
<v Speaker 2>of movements where you have to move, you know, stabilize, rotate, throw, kickstrup.

0:40:02.080 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole bunch of stuff there. And then the

0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:10.839
<v Speaker 2>other thing is gymnastics, like peewee gymnastics and that sort

0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of thing that's totaling yep.

0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:14.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean one of the things that I know that

0:40:14.760 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 1>you all do with a lot of juniors, and again

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:20.200
<v Speaker 1>you do this in front of pack. I've actually and

0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I implement now this with junior golfers that are in

0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:31.560
<v Speaker 1>high school. Hopping, skipping, rolling patterns massive for learning how

0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to control your body in space, learning how to accelerate decelerate,

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:41.359
<v Speaker 1>but you'd be surprised. I mean, you'll watch it and

0:40:41.400 --> 0:40:43.640
<v Speaker 1>I do this. Now. I'll watch a kid and he's

0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.319
<v Speaker 1>trying to play golf. The parents have taken him out

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.160
<v Speaker 1>all the other sports. You can see that his coordination

0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:52.959
<v Speaker 1>and his ability to control the club face isn't really great.

0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:54.760
<v Speaker 1>And I remember you all doing this at a TPI

0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 1>junior conference once. We got a kind of a ladder

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:01.200
<v Speaker 1>that you put on the ground where you have to

0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:05.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, just boxes you have to hop, skip and

0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:08.400
<v Speaker 1>learn how to control. It's amazing to watch kids that

0:41:08.440 --> 0:41:12.719
<v Speaker 1>are trying to play competitive golf that have no ability

0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:16.720
<v Speaker 1>to hop from one box to the next box. Today.

0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Things that you did is kids when I was growing up,

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:25.040
<v Speaker 1>you hop scotch. Nobody plays those sports. Nobody does that anymore.

0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Those patterns, the running, skipping, jumping, learning how to jump

0:41:30.719 --> 0:41:35.600
<v Speaker 1>rope all things that we used to do as children

0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:38.760
<v Speaker 1>and that children don't do today, but are massively important

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 1>for you as a human being to be able to

0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.280
<v Speaker 1>learn how to control your body correct.

0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and to some extent, everything you've just spoken about

0:41:48.600 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>there is what we've put back into our junior program

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 2>because are just so critical to like that's the athletic

0:41:57.200 --> 0:42:00.920
<v Speaker 2>foundation that our juniors need to to begin to become

0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:05.200
<v Speaker 2>decent players. And we look at we're very specific with

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:07.960
<v Speaker 2>what we do. So in our cyclone, for example, we

0:42:08.040 --> 0:42:11.520
<v Speaker 2>teach them how to sprint, like just shortbursts. Everything's fast, right,

0:42:11.560 --> 0:42:14.239
<v Speaker 2>because that speed windows open. But the movements we have,

0:42:14.360 --> 0:42:19.719
<v Speaker 2>we do skipping because skipping teachers dissociation hip association. So

0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:24.839
<v Speaker 2>we have exercises that are in our athletic stations and

0:42:24.880 --> 0:42:27.879
<v Speaker 2>in our golf stations that teach transition without them holding

0:42:27.920 --> 0:42:30.400
<v Speaker 2>onto a golf club, Like, how do you teach transition

0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:32.839
<v Speaker 2>and the movement you want to a five year old

0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:34.239
<v Speaker 2>where you better not have a golf club in the

0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:35.759
<v Speaker 2>hand to be talking about, Hey, what I want you

0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 2>to do? As you get near the top? I want

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:39.680
<v Speaker 2>you to start yell ower, body firing this like you

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.359
<v Speaker 2>need a game and an activity where they don't even

0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 2>know that you're teaching it, right, So we have activities.

0:42:45.440 --> 0:42:48.640
<v Speaker 2>We have skipping in there, we have hopping and of

0:42:48.640 --> 0:42:51.719
<v Speaker 2>course you know the ability to jump and stabilize in

0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:53.280
<v Speaker 2>a leg Hay, I think that's in a golf swing

0:42:53.320 --> 0:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>and then sliding side to side where you're transferring weight

0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:59.600
<v Speaker 2>having to stabilize, go back the other way, stabilize like

0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:03.000
<v Speaker 2>they're all like, it's interesting. Sometimes you get parents go hey,

0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:04.799
<v Speaker 2>why are you doing this, And I'll just say, hey,

0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.000
<v Speaker 2>in the golf swing, you gotta do this, and they go, oh,

0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:07.919
<v Speaker 2>I get it. Cool.

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:09.840
<v Speaker 1>That's great because one of the things that you do

0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 1>that I've seen you guys doing. We did this as

0:43:11.920 --> 0:43:14.760
<v Speaker 1>well in our junior program that we have in Dubai.

0:43:16.480 --> 0:43:20.920
<v Speaker 1>Having a young child, say listen, swing this tennis racket,

0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:25.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, do this for ten reps. Now take a

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 1>ball and throw the ball right. Do that ten times.

0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:31.919
<v Speaker 1>Now kick a soccer ball. Do that ten times, and

0:43:32.560 --> 0:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>both sides of the body, both sides of the body.

0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:36.680
<v Speaker 1>And then say, all right, remember what you were doing

0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:38.319
<v Speaker 1>when you had the tennis racket in your hand. Now

0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:39.839
<v Speaker 1>we're going to put a golf club in your hand.

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:43.320
<v Speaker 1>It's basically the same type of and I think because

0:43:43.360 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>golf has always been taught as is, but I think

0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:48.919
<v Speaker 1>back in the day, golf was taught in a way

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:53.239
<v Speaker 1>that it was golf specific, right. These were golf specific

0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:56.200
<v Speaker 1>movement patterns that didn't really have anything to do with

0:43:56.239 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 1>the wider athletic movement that you would make another and

0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:04.120
<v Speaker 1>every other sport, right. So I don't think most people

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.160
<v Speaker 1>that are trying to play golf realize how much you

0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:11.440
<v Speaker 1>are asking your body to do in a dynamic movement

0:44:11.480 --> 0:44:15.200
<v Speaker 1>pattern that's over in one point five to two seconds.

0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:19.280
<v Speaker 1>We're asking you and you've got two feet, two legs,

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:21.920
<v Speaker 1>two arms, two hands, You've got all of these body

0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:25.360
<v Speaker 1>parts that you're trying to coordinate in a very very

0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:29.359
<v Speaker 1>small window, and we're asking you to do that from

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:33.239
<v Speaker 1>a completely static position. I gave a golf lesson once

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:35.880
<v Speaker 1>to a guy that had sold his semiconductor company to

0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:39.520
<v Speaker 1>the US government and was now a I mean a captain,

0:44:39.560 --> 0:44:43.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean just made stupid money. And when I tell you, Dennis,

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:45.560
<v Speaker 1>he had no athletic ability. He was a scientist, he's

0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:48.400
<v Speaker 1>a buffin right. He just had no athletic ability at all.

0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>And he wanted to learn how to play golf. And

0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 1>it was just like pulling teeth. It was brutal, and

0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:55.480
<v Speaker 1>he's sweating and I'll never forget this, he said. You

0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.600
<v Speaker 1>know the hardest part about this sport for me is

0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I have to start the move movement from zero energy.

0:45:01.520 --> 0:45:04.880
<v Speaker 1>And I just went, what the hell did you just say? It?

0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Just blew my mind. I'm like, yeah, because every other

0:45:07.600 --> 0:45:11.120
<v Speaker 1>sport that you play, you're running to where the opponent

0:45:11.239 --> 0:45:14.400
<v Speaker 1>is you think is going, or is going. You're throwing

0:45:14.480 --> 0:45:16.920
<v Speaker 1>the ball to where the So it's all about but

0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.880
<v Speaker 1>in golf, we put you in this static position, the

0:45:19.920 --> 0:45:22.040
<v Speaker 1>balls on the ground, you're to the side of it.

0:45:22.560 --> 0:45:25.240
<v Speaker 1>You've got to hold a golf club with two hands,

0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:27.880
<v Speaker 1>but there's only one golf club. And now we go, okay,

0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:33.000
<v Speaker 1>now you start the movement from no movement and figure

0:45:33.000 --> 0:45:34.960
<v Speaker 1>out a way to control that. And so I think

0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:36.759
<v Speaker 1>all of the things that you're talking about that you

0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:39.799
<v Speaker 1>guys do in these junior golf cyclones are all about

0:45:39.840 --> 0:45:42.680
<v Speaker 1>trying to get people to understand that golf is just

0:45:42.880 --> 0:45:46.640
<v Speaker 1>like every other sport you play that's really a road

0:45:46.719 --> 0:45:49.080
<v Speaker 1>or re sport. You're going to get your body to

0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:54.080
<v Speaker 1>move in a pattern and throwing, kitching, kicking, punching, striking

0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:58.960
<v Speaker 1>patterns are hugely important for motor skill development.

0:45:59.320 --> 0:46:02.520
<v Speaker 2>And they have at one hundred percent true and they

0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:06.359
<v Speaker 2>have a very direct correlation to a golf swing. Is

0:46:06.880 --> 0:46:08.799
<v Speaker 2>like we've said it a couple of times already, but

0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:13.520
<v Speaker 2>there's a great transfer of learning into into a golf swing,

0:46:13.920 --> 0:46:15.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know a lot of the stuff around club

0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:18.799
<v Speaker 2>phase control that can be done at a younger age.

0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:20.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, you've heard us say the seminars all the time.

0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Our goal in the cyclone program is speed, Like we

0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:28.480
<v Speaker 2>could care less where it goes, because let's create some speed. Hey,

0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:30.920
<v Speaker 2>when we're in skills phase, we'll start to teach a

0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 2>little more around some of that control. Remembering that the

0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:37.320
<v Speaker 2>junior boys and girls who are in our cyclone program

0:46:37.719 --> 0:46:40.400
<v Speaker 2>like to some extent, it's the larger muscles that are

0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:45.600
<v Speaker 2>wired that that that brain development and the smaller you know,

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 2>fine control over the smaller muscles happens later in the

0:46:50.200 --> 0:46:54.360
<v Speaker 2>maturation cycle. So why are we trying to teach like

0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:58.359
<v Speaker 2>awesome club face control here where they haven't actually got

0:46:58.360 --> 0:47:00.160
<v Speaker 2>control over the bodies yet. It's kind of like what

0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:02.560
<v Speaker 2>you just said before. You know, it's that that static

0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:05.040
<v Speaker 2>movement having to control all these things. Well, that they're

0:47:05.040 --> 0:47:08.120
<v Speaker 2>still learning to feel their body let alone, and not

0:47:08.200 --> 0:47:10.719
<v Speaker 2>all the muscles are wide beautifully yet you know that

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:13.439
<v Speaker 2>that happens in that in that next phase right with

0:47:13.440 --> 0:47:18.560
<v Speaker 2>with with with brain development, start laying milin down. You know,

0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.000
<v Speaker 2>all the different pathways and.

0:47:20.280 --> 0:47:21.359
<v Speaker 1>I've got a really good friend.

0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Sorry getting it off track there.

0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I've got a really good friend that used to play

0:47:24.280 --> 0:47:28.200
<v Speaker 1>professional football soccer in the UK, Irish god named Stephen Grant.

0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:31.000
<v Speaker 1>And after he started playing after he quit playing golf,

0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:33.600
<v Speaker 1>he decided, or after he quit playing football, he decided

0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:35.640
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to be a professional golfer. He's made it

0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 1>the second stage in Europe and the US a couple

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.480
<v Speaker 1>of times. One of Roy McElroy's really really good friends.

0:47:41.680 --> 0:47:43.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, he's got kind of a unique golf swing.

0:47:43.719 --> 0:47:46.000
<v Speaker 1>But the guy's short game is as good as savvy

0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:49.200
<v Speaker 1>bi asteros, because the way that he would kick a football,

0:47:49.520 --> 0:47:51.720
<v Speaker 1>the way that he would move his foot to spin

0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:54.560
<v Speaker 1>the ball in different directions, and he's like a savant

0:47:54.680 --> 0:47:56.840
<v Speaker 1>with short game, and tour guys play with him and

0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.040
<v Speaker 1>they're like, bro, your short game is unbelievable. But it

0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:03.359
<v Speaker 1>all came from his ability to kick a football and

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:05.840
<v Speaker 1>to have it move in a certain pattern in a

0:48:05.880 --> 0:48:09.320
<v Speaker 1>certain way, and to spin the ball in a certain

0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:11.799
<v Speaker 1>way with his foot. He took the exact same thing

0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:14.160
<v Speaker 1>that he did with his feet and just applied it.

0:48:14.480 --> 0:48:16.160
<v Speaker 2>They are swinging shots.

0:48:16.200 --> 0:48:18.279
<v Speaker 1>He's a great shaper of the golf ball too. He

0:48:18.360 --> 0:48:20.560
<v Speaker 1>can move the golf ball a lot of different He

0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 1>was never really the longest player, but his ability to

0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 1>control the flight of the golf.

0:48:26.280 --> 0:48:28.319
<v Speaker 2>Ball, and he would he would I mentioned, he would

0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:29.080
<v Speaker 2>see it.

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:34.040
<v Speaker 1>And his short game was devoid of technique. Like I

0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 1>taught him for a long time and he would go,

0:48:36.160 --> 0:48:37.879
<v Speaker 1>let's go work on your short game. And I'm like, mate,

0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:40.960
<v Speaker 1>your short game is you don't need to work on that.

0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:42.800
<v Speaker 1>And he's like, yeah, but I feel like my technique

0:48:42.840 --> 0:48:46.120
<v Speaker 1>isn't good. I was like, your technique is unbelievable because

0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:47.920
<v Speaker 1>it works. He's like, yeah, but I don't like the

0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:50.560
<v Speaker 1>way it looks. I said, who cares how it looks.

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:56.160
<v Speaker 1>It's so unbelievably functional. But that all came from the

0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:58.880
<v Speaker 1>way that he was trained. I've been lucky enough to

0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:02.680
<v Speaker 1>meet some of the the polo guys, the Pierra's Boys

0:49:02.760 --> 0:49:06.399
<v Speaker 1>from Argentina. The things that they can do with golf

0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:09.719
<v Speaker 1>clubs as a result of the way that they are

0:49:09.760 --> 0:49:13.720
<v Speaker 1>on horses, their eye hand coordination in riding a horse

0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:16.759
<v Speaker 1>but also using a polo mallet. When I watched them

0:49:16.840 --> 0:49:21.640
<v Speaker 1>play golf again, their short games are beyond belief because

0:49:21.640 --> 0:49:23.880
<v Speaker 1>they're riding on a horse at twenty five miles an

0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:26.560
<v Speaker 1>hour and they've got to nudge this ball at full

0:49:26.640 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 1>speed hanging off this horse, and they've got amazing short games.

0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:35.760
<v Speaker 1>It's fascinating to watch that kind of crossover from other sports.

0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Dennis, that was a little bit sorry, just that was

0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:40.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit like I spoke about, like table tennis,

0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:44.000
<v Speaker 2>so like the spins and figuring out what you do

0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:45.359
<v Speaker 2>with a racket and your wrist to get the.

0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Ball to move and risk kind of development.

0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Like how many of these guys are here this way?

0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.200
<v Speaker 2>If you took them on a table tennis, they just

0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:54.759
<v Speaker 2>wipe you off the the table, right They just.

0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:02.520
<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty three, Denis. Obviously the athletes are playing golf.

0:50:03.520 --> 0:50:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you think we've reached I mean, Dave, when I

0:50:05.640 --> 0:50:07.400
<v Speaker 1>had Dave phil Phillips on the podcast a couple of

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:09.440
<v Speaker 1>weeks ago, we were talking about speed and you know,

0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:12.560
<v Speaker 1>this new rollback of the golf ball, everybody's saying, everybody's

0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:14.600
<v Speaker 1>going to be hitting the golf ball at you know,

0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:18.080
<v Speaker 1>two hundred mile an hour, you know, plus club hit

0:50:18.120 --> 0:50:22.839
<v Speaker 1>our ball speed. Dave thinks that there's a ceiling that

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:25.800
<v Speaker 1>you can compete with speed.

0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:31.200
<v Speaker 1>I think the governing bodies and the wider public just say, Okay,

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:35.520
<v Speaker 1>speed is killing golf, but the long drive guys, they're

0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.200
<v Speaker 1>not winning golf trumps. Yes, Bryson went on that run,

0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:41.320
<v Speaker 1>but Bryson is even scaled back what he's done to

0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Where do you think we are in twenty twenty three

0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:47.440
<v Speaker 1>from an athletic standpoint? But where do you think? What's

0:50:47.480 --> 0:50:52.600
<v Speaker 1>the ceiling on? How athletic this sport, as golf, as golfers,

0:50:53.040 --> 0:50:55.200
<v Speaker 1>how athletic can it become?

0:50:56.600 --> 0:50:59.759
<v Speaker 2>It's a really interesting question. So it wasn't that long

0:50:59.840 --> 0:51:01.480
<v Speaker 2>ago we thought no one would ever break the four

0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:05.560
<v Speaker 2>minute mile, and now college students do it. I think

0:51:05.640 --> 0:51:11.160
<v Speaker 2>that the way golfers are trained has changed, and they're

0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:14.640
<v Speaker 2>all athletes. I don't know whether I would talk about

0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:19.600
<v Speaker 2>a ceiling, but what I would say is that since

0:51:19.760 --> 0:51:24.160
<v Speaker 2>we always talk about speed but not so much about efficiency,

0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 2>because I think you can actually get a golf ball

0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:33.080
<v Speaker 2>going further with moderate increases in speed by moving more efficiently,

0:51:33.560 --> 0:51:37.040
<v Speaker 2>like knowing musculature, how it all interacts, how you need

0:51:37.080 --> 0:51:41.920
<v Speaker 2>to move to create a really efficient sequence. And then

0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:45.160
<v Speaker 2>if you make that faster, I think ball's going to

0:51:45.160 --> 0:51:50.319
<v Speaker 2>go even further up. So around that, I think that

0:51:52.480 --> 0:51:54.360
<v Speaker 2>we probably don't need to open the can of worms

0:51:54.400 --> 0:51:56.719
<v Speaker 2>around how far the ball goes and golf courses and

0:51:57.120 --> 0:51:59.239
<v Speaker 2>what we're having to do. But I would think that

0:51:59.880 --> 0:52:03.320
<v Speaker 2>the sports fundamentally changed. I don't see it going back.

0:52:03.920 --> 0:52:09.560
<v Speaker 2>I think I think the other thing that we need

0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:12.080
<v Speaker 2>to look at here is speed is one thing, but

0:52:12.160 --> 0:52:15.520
<v Speaker 2>it's still a game. There's still an art involved here.

0:52:16.200 --> 0:52:19.120
<v Speaker 2>And I look at the best players, and yes, they've

0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:22.520
<v Speaker 2>they're they're probably within a certain bandwidth of speed, but

0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:25.759
<v Speaker 2>they've got great control as well. And that's that's where

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:29.320
<v Speaker 2>I see it. It's like, you know, speed without control

0:52:29.400 --> 0:52:33.239
<v Speaker 2>or efficiency ain't gonna work out here unless there's some

0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.759
<v Speaker 2>sort of advancement in equipment that I sort of can't

0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 2>see just around the corner. So I think there's a

0:52:39.040 --> 0:52:40.879
<v Speaker 2>there's a job for all of us to do as

0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.480
<v Speaker 2>a as a you know, is working around these players

0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:47.400
<v Speaker 2>and these developmental players, you know, the sports science community

0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:49.919
<v Speaker 2>and the sports medicine community, and coaches, you know, high

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:55.240
<v Speaker 2>performance coaches around finding that blend of for this player,

0:52:55.320 --> 0:52:58.600
<v Speaker 2>how does this player need to move? You know, what

0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:00.600
<v Speaker 2>does the how does that what is their body needs

0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:05.239
<v Speaker 2>to look like in five years time, how with their physiology,

0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:08.879
<v Speaker 2>what's the most efficient way for them to move? And

0:53:08.920 --> 0:53:13.120
<v Speaker 2>then how fast can they move that way without breaking

0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:16.560
<v Speaker 2>down physically or injury wise, and have the control they

0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:19.800
<v Speaker 2>need over the ball golf ball? And can we also

0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:23.399
<v Speaker 2>teach them like your analogy before with the guy who

0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:27.080
<v Speaker 2>the footy guy, can they actually have some control over

0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 2>that as well? Like how much control do they need

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:32.480
<v Speaker 2>in the modern game with equipments. That's a whole nother discussion, right,

0:53:33.080 --> 0:53:36.440
<v Speaker 2>But that would be the way I would see this

0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:39.840
<v Speaker 2>is just finding what's optimum for each player, because for

0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:42.200
<v Speaker 2>some of them anyway, I'm probably just going to go

0:53:42.239 --> 0:53:44.480
<v Speaker 2>over what I just said, But that's probably more the way.

0:53:45.040 --> 0:53:47.840
<v Speaker 2>The way I see things is we'll get to the

0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:53.719
<v Speaker 2>stage where we'll just go right, how close well I

0:53:53.800 --> 0:53:56.160
<v Speaker 2>know this, if you look at look at some of

0:53:56.200 --> 0:54:00.400
<v Speaker 2>my players, they'll just go right, what's my man acts?

0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Where does the ball going when I'm going at max?

0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:05.399
<v Speaker 2>And how do I feel? How far back from that

0:54:05.560 --> 0:54:09.040
<v Speaker 2>do I back off to get within that bandwidth of

0:54:09.560 --> 0:54:11.520
<v Speaker 2>distance and control that I want. That's going to be

0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:13.960
<v Speaker 2>different for every play and every player's program is going

0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:16.000
<v Speaker 2>to be different, right, but that's kind of the way

0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:18.439
<v Speaker 2>I see it. With my background and the people I'm

0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:21.279
<v Speaker 2>fortunate enough to work with or smarter than me, it's

0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:24.279
<v Speaker 2>just going right for this person with their physiology, this

0:54:24.360 --> 0:54:26.400
<v Speaker 2>is their most efficient movement. We can prove that on

0:54:26.480 --> 0:54:29.680
<v Speaker 2>three D. We can see it in the flight, the

0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:34.759
<v Speaker 2>players talking about the control they've got, the strike, my

0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:36.960
<v Speaker 2>good shots, it feels like my good shots going where

0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:39.440
<v Speaker 2>it should go. The bad shot it should be going there.

0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:42.479
<v Speaker 2>And then just figure, as I said, figuring out what's

0:54:42.520 --> 0:54:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the what's that cruising speed? Where I get that? And

0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:49.360
<v Speaker 2>that'll be interesting to see whether that bell curve changes

0:54:49.400 --> 0:54:51.440
<v Speaker 2>over time, right, because I think that's where we're getting

0:54:51.440 --> 0:54:55.040
<v Speaker 2>to as a community of coaches and sports science and

0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:58.080
<v Speaker 2>sports medicine people, is we're just going can we shift

0:54:58.080 --> 0:55:00.319
<v Speaker 2>this more this way? Now? They might roll the golf

0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:01.840
<v Speaker 2>ball back a bit, but that's not going to stop

0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:06.600
<v Speaker 2>that progression. And I think importantly seeking to progress, like

0:55:06.640 --> 0:55:08.160
<v Speaker 2>we're not all going to go, well, well they've died

0:55:08.160 --> 0:55:08.799
<v Speaker 2>the golf ball back.

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Let's just let's just stare where we go.

0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Let's just say where we.

0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Are we want to Adaptah.

0:55:12.520 --> 0:55:14.399
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing too, is is if you look

0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:18.239
<v Speaker 2>at you look at you know, through history, like I

0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:22.359
<v Speaker 2>look at Nicholas, when you know when Nicholas came out

0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:25.400
<v Speaker 2>what an athlete? Oh is unbelievable. Man, it's just so

0:55:25.480 --> 0:55:26.480
<v Speaker 2>much further than everybody else.

0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:26.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:55:27.040 --> 0:55:30.359
<v Speaker 2>So it's not like the game, it's not like all

0:55:30.360 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden we've got you know, better athletes. Is

0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:38.360
<v Speaker 2>not the word that the game has always had great athletes.

0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:40.560
<v Speaker 2>It's just know, we know more about how to create them,

0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:42.680
<v Speaker 2>I think, and there's more of them, and I think

0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the equipment, the way the equipment is, it's no doubt

0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:47.960
<v Speaker 2>it's more forgiving that lends itself to sort of pushing

0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that envelope and trying to move that bell curve a

0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.759
<v Speaker 2>little bit, but ultimately coming down the stretch, it's the

0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:56.799
<v Speaker 2>guys that can that have got the ultimate control and

0:55:56.840 --> 0:55:58.840
<v Speaker 2>that art and finesse. There's still an art and finesse

0:55:58.880 --> 0:56:01.000
<v Speaker 2>in the game right in all aspects of the game,

0:56:01.200 --> 0:56:03.279
<v Speaker 2>and as coaches, we can't forget that because we live

0:56:03.320 --> 0:56:08.480
<v Speaker 2>in a very data focused, objective, objective world.

0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Lastly, Dennis in twenty twenty three, what do you like

0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:15.879
<v Speaker 1>about golf instruction and the direction it's going and what

0:56:16.040 --> 0:56:19.600
<v Speaker 1>don't you like or what do you just give what

0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:21.280
<v Speaker 1>what are some things that kind of give you pause

0:56:21.320 --> 0:56:23.359
<v Speaker 1>and go h. I don't know about that.

0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:28.080
<v Speaker 2>It's a really good question. So when I first started

0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:32.440
<v Speaker 2>playing as a junior, no one had even a video camera,

0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:35.919
<v Speaker 2>like I think I was nineteen when I saw swing

0:56:36.000 --> 0:56:37.719
<v Speaker 2>for the first time. I was horrified by the way

0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:41.120
<v Speaker 2>because I thought I was a mix of Nicholas Ballistos

0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and Watson and found out that I was nothing like that.

0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:47.719
<v Speaker 2>But I think I think back in the day, the

0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:51.919
<v Speaker 2>best coaches they could look at a ballflight, they could

0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:54.279
<v Speaker 2>look at the way you were moving, and they could

0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:57.560
<v Speaker 2>explain to you what was causing that that there weren't

0:56:57.560 --> 0:56:59.360
<v Speaker 2>many there weren't. I don't think there were a whole

0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:01.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of those type of guys around. I think a

0:57:01.600 --> 0:57:03.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of them would go, well, we just we'll change

0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:05.200
<v Speaker 2>your grip a bit, or we'll change your ball position,

0:57:05.280 --> 0:57:06.560
<v Speaker 2>or we'll get you to turn more, or we'll get

0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:08.839
<v Speaker 2>you to change this. But I think there were some

0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:12.799
<v Speaker 2>really skilled coaches who could without the use of tech,

0:57:12.960 --> 0:57:16.240
<v Speaker 2>without the assistance of technology, could work backwards and just

0:57:16.280 --> 0:57:19.919
<v Speaker 2>go right, that's what's causing that, you need to do this,

0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and the way they went, I think, well, I've certainly

0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:28.439
<v Speaker 2>lived through an error and as a coach where there

0:57:28.440 --> 0:57:34.640
<v Speaker 2>are more and more and more, you know, equipment now

0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:39.400
<v Speaker 2>that will provide information around what's happened.

0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Data collection, data collection.

0:57:41.320 --> 0:57:44.680
<v Speaker 2>So I see a lot of data collection from a

0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:50.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of different pieces of machinery. But what I'm not sure,

0:57:50.720 --> 0:57:53.800
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not seeing a lot of This is a

0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:58.280
<v Speaker 2>shocking general generalization, right, But I don't know too many

0:57:58.320 --> 0:58:00.640
<v Speaker 2>people who can gather all of that information to do

0:58:00.760 --> 0:58:03.320
<v Speaker 2>something with it and analyze it. So we live we've

0:58:03.440 --> 0:58:05.760
<v Speaker 2>lived in it in an era where there's been an

0:58:05.760 --> 0:58:09.880
<v Speaker 2>explosion in technology and assistance. But I'm not but there's

0:58:09.920 --> 0:58:10.560
<v Speaker 2>not a lot.

0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:12.320
<v Speaker 1>Of really, really really good.

0:58:12.200 --> 0:58:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Data analysts who can like process all of that and

0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:20.640
<v Speaker 2>come up with a coaching coaching information, and then you've

0:58:20.640 --> 0:58:23.400
<v Speaker 2>got to come up with how you're going to express

0:58:23.440 --> 0:58:26.480
<v Speaker 2>that to the players. So it's if I use my

0:58:26.520 --> 0:58:29.640
<v Speaker 2>own experience around that just to sort of define that

0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:33.320
<v Speaker 2>not just blanket you know, not just a blanket comment.

0:58:33.920 --> 0:58:37.600
<v Speaker 2>When for example, three D first came out, I was like,

0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:39.800
<v Speaker 2>I've got to be an expert in three D.

0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:42.840
<v Speaker 1>We've got we've got a twelve cents a well, I

0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:46.360
<v Speaker 1>bought one as well, and I'm not a biomechanas.

0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Whereas now whereas now I go, you know, what all

0:58:47.920 --> 0:58:53.959
<v Speaker 2>I need is someone who can look at that, see

0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:55.880
<v Speaker 2>all of that in their mind and go, right, here's

0:58:55.880 --> 0:58:59.360
<v Speaker 2>what's happening before those different parts. So the onus on

0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:01.680
<v Speaker 2>on my on my part is to make sure that

0:59:01.760 --> 0:59:04.400
<v Speaker 2>I can have a conversation with someone whose world is

0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:06.720
<v Speaker 2>looking at that sort of thing, right, and their job

0:59:06.760 --> 0:59:09.000
<v Speaker 2>is to understand that I'm just a golf pro and

0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:10.640
<v Speaker 2>they need to dumb it down a little bit so

0:59:10.720 --> 0:59:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that I understand it. So that was I think I've

0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:18.520
<v Speaker 2>lived through an era where we had launch moditors. Now

0:59:18.520 --> 0:59:21.240
<v Speaker 2>it's like, wow, now I've got to understand launch monitors.

0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:24.160
<v Speaker 2>And then there are people around who can simplify that.

0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:28.520
<v Speaker 2>So you can get all of that information and come

0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:33.720
<v Speaker 2>up with a really complicated scenario of what's going on,

0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:38.000
<v Speaker 2>or you can have someone who helps you understand exactly

0:59:38.080 --> 0:59:41.520
<v Speaker 2>what's going on, so you can express something that's complex

0:59:41.880 --> 0:59:46.120
<v Speaker 2>quite simply to that's sorry, turn something that's quite complex

0:59:46.160 --> 0:59:48.000
<v Speaker 2>into something quite simple, because then you need to be

0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:50.400
<v Speaker 2>able to communicate with a player, because at the end

0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:52.240
<v Speaker 2>of the day, if you hook a player up with

0:59:52.280 --> 0:59:54.240
<v Speaker 2>three D or you've got a track man running or

0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.280
<v Speaker 2>force plates or whatever. The play's just going to go, well, right,

0:59:57.320 --> 1:00:01.080
<v Speaker 2>a coach, what are we going to do? So you

1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:03.760
<v Speaker 2>can have all the information coming in, but ultimately you've

1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:05.960
<v Speaker 2>got to come up with there's got to be an

1:00:05.960 --> 1:00:08.240
<v Speaker 2>output from that. And I think for me as a coach,

1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:10.560
<v Speaker 2>that's been the challenge. I think I went as I said,

1:00:10.560 --> 1:00:12.600
<v Speaker 2>I went through the whole thing of going, holy crap,

1:00:12.600 --> 1:00:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I've got to be an expert in this, this and this,

1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:16.200
<v Speaker 2>and I've got to totally understand it all because I've

1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:17.680
<v Speaker 2>got to be able to talk to my player about it.

1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:19.520
<v Speaker 2>And I think I've got to the stage now when

1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:24.880
<v Speaker 2>there's an emerging technology, i'ld call so the guy I use,

1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Lumston based here in Adelaide. We'll have a conversation

1:00:28.040 --> 1:00:30.280
<v Speaker 2>around this new technology coming out and it's like, what

1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>do you think is it going to be useful? Is

1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:33.520
<v Speaker 2>it going to be a coaching result from.

1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:37.440
<v Speaker 1>He's effectively doing. He's the research guy. He's immersed in

1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the details, and what you're trying to say is listen,

1:00:40.360 --> 1:00:41.880
<v Speaker 1>what do you think about this new concept?

1:00:41.920 --> 1:00:45.640
<v Speaker 2>And he'll go and police formally educated and.

1:00:45.600 --> 1:00:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Then you said, Okay, now, how can I apply that

1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:50.840
<v Speaker 1>in the real world? And I think that's the important

1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:55.080
<v Speaker 1>thing that as golf instruction becomes more data driven and

1:00:55.200 --> 1:01:00.760
<v Speaker 1>more technology driven, you have to be able to do

1:01:00.840 --> 1:01:06.520
<v Speaker 1>something to affect change with the information that you're getting. Yeah,

1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:10.280
<v Speaker 1>I agree, Otherwise you're just getting him. I've always said that,

1:01:10.320 --> 1:01:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I think we're probably now I think two generations in

1:01:14.160 --> 1:01:17.600
<v Speaker 1>of just my worry is that we're just creating generations

1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:20.960
<v Speaker 1>of data collectors and they're just data money and you're like, okay,

1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:23.920
<v Speaker 1>and they're saying to students, listen, this is I've got

1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.600
<v Speaker 1>one hundred thousand dollars worth of technology. This is what

1:01:26.600 --> 1:01:29.880
<v Speaker 1>you're doing. The student's going okay, I didn't know now what, Yeah,

1:01:29.880 --> 1:01:31.960
<v Speaker 1>but this is what you're doing. The technology tells me

1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:34.240
<v Speaker 1>this is what you're doing. But the students sitting there

1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:36.840
<v Speaker 1>going Okay, what the hell do we do now? Because

1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.280
<v Speaker 1>anybody can look at the data and say, hey, you're

1:01:39.280 --> 1:01:41.320
<v Speaker 1>doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, this is

1:01:41.320 --> 1:01:44.480
<v Speaker 1>what's happening. Okay, now what and how do I get

1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:46.920
<v Speaker 1>better as a golfer with all of this information?

1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Correct? And that's and if you look at the best

1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:53.920
<v Speaker 2>teams around, the best players in the world, they're able

1:01:53.960 --> 1:02:00.280
<v Speaker 2>to not only gather data, that to effectively analyze data

1:02:00.680 --> 1:02:03.880
<v Speaker 2>and have a discussion and come up with a way forward.

1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:08.840
<v Speaker 2>And typically by the time that's process you digested, processed,

1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:13.880
<v Speaker 2>and spat out, it's a fairly simple piece of information

1:02:14.000 --> 1:02:17.720
<v Speaker 2>for the player. But for example, the fella I spoke

1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:21.600
<v Speaker 2>about before, Ryan Lumsden, he's been working on programs that

1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:27.320
<v Speaker 2>gathered data from from different technologies and he's able to

1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:30.680
<v Speaker 2>he's getting the stage where he's filtering down the importance

1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:33.400
<v Speaker 2>for each player he's in the matrix. He's yeah, So

1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:36.400
<v Speaker 2>he's a very clever man. And as I said, that's like,

1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:39.640
<v Speaker 2>that's something I could but I'm not unashamed to say

1:02:39.720 --> 1:02:43.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm not smart enough to do that. But as if

1:02:43.080 --> 1:02:45.640
<v Speaker 2>I dial this right back to the to the vis

1:02:45.440 --> 1:02:48.920
<v Speaker 2>the CEO of the vis A great man by the

1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:51.440
<v Speaker 2>name of doctor Frank Pike, who sadly passed away a

1:02:51.520 --> 1:02:55.120
<v Speaker 2>number of years ago. When I got the assistant coach

1:02:55.200 --> 1:02:58.200
<v Speaker 2>position at the Institute of Sports, so Dale Intwit's head coach,

1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:00.560
<v Speaker 2>I was assistant coach. He came and sat me down

1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:03.120
<v Speaker 2>and he said, look, he said, there's only two things

1:03:03.160 --> 1:03:05.080
<v Speaker 2>you really need to do in this job. He said,

1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:06.520
<v Speaker 2>when you get up in the morning, he said, you

1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:09.160
<v Speaker 2>need to think about, Okay, well, what can I do

1:03:09.200 --> 1:03:12.320
<v Speaker 2>for my athletes today to help them get better? And

1:03:12.360 --> 1:03:14.320
<v Speaker 2>he said the second thing I'll say is you've got

1:03:14.320 --> 1:03:16.680
<v Speaker 2>to surround people who You've got to surround yourself with

1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:18.640
<v Speaker 2>people who are smarter than you and leave your ego

1:03:18.680 --> 1:03:21.000
<v Speaker 2>at the door. And they are two things that I've

1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:25.160
<v Speaker 2>that I've tried to do my whole coaching life, and

1:03:25.560 --> 1:03:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it served me pretty well. At the time,

1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:28.760
<v Speaker 2>I kind of thought he might have been having a

1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:30.400
<v Speaker 2>bit of crack, a bit of a crack at me, going,

1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:32.240
<v Speaker 2>you need to surround yourself with people who are smarter

1:03:32.240 --> 1:03:36.760
<v Speaker 2>than me. Yeah, right, So anyhow, Yeah.

1:03:36.600 --> 1:03:39.439
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think you're one of you know you, Greg Dave,

1:03:39.840 --> 1:03:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the guys at TPI, you're some of the smartest people

1:03:41.880 --> 1:03:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I know. And I don't think you guys get nearly

1:03:44.760 --> 1:03:49.360
<v Speaker 1>enough credit from people like us because you have fundamentally

1:03:49.800 --> 1:03:52.240
<v Speaker 1>the work that certainly the work that you've done Dennis

1:03:52.440 --> 1:03:57.000
<v Speaker 1>in junior golf development. When I first was exposed to it,

1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:01.000
<v Speaker 1>it literally changed everything for me. And it is shaped

1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:04.760
<v Speaker 1>everything that I have done since then, So I can't

1:04:04.760 --> 1:04:07.440
<v Speaker 1>thank you enough. And it's great to be down here

1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:09.160
<v Speaker 1>in Australia to get a chance to spend some time

1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:12.200
<v Speaker 1>with you. And we could literally do five hours of

1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:14.680
<v Speaker 1>this and just go straight down the rabbit hole. We'll

1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:17.720
<v Speaker 1>get together again soon and do it again. But congrats

1:04:17.720 --> 1:04:20.240
<v Speaker 1>on all your success and keep doing what you're doing,

1:04:20.240 --> 1:04:24.000
<v Speaker 1>because you are one of the good ones, and you're

1:04:24.040 --> 1:04:25.080
<v Speaker 1>one of the best in the world at.

1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:28.200
<v Speaker 2>What you do. I will say this justin is just

1:04:28.240 --> 1:04:32.160
<v Speaker 2>as a final comment or just a final comment, is

1:04:32.480 --> 1:04:39.320
<v Speaker 2>I've been extremely fortunate in my coaching life to have

1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:43.800
<v Speaker 2>come across some people who have been just amazing mentors.

1:04:43.960 --> 1:04:46.320
<v Speaker 2>Is just like you can. I think there's a certain

1:04:46.320 --> 1:04:48.240
<v Speaker 2>amount of coaching that you dig out of the ground

1:04:48.240 --> 1:04:51.280
<v Speaker 2>through trial and error. And I've been extremely fortunate from

1:04:51.280 --> 1:04:54.120
<v Speaker 2>the moment I started coaching, not only to have great

1:04:54.160 --> 1:04:56.760
<v Speaker 2>mentors from all around the world, but great mentors who

1:04:56.760 --> 1:05:00.280
<v Speaker 2>are happy to share and part of that mentoring being

1:05:00.360 --> 1:05:03.520
<v Speaker 2>challenged by people around the way you think too, right,

1:05:04.240 --> 1:05:06.880
<v Speaker 2>And I've been extremely fortunate, and i'd count to you

1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:09.920
<v Speaker 2>amongst those people, Claude, and thanks very much for inviting

1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:11.520
<v Speaker 2>me to speak, has been a's been terrific.

1:05:11.560 --> 1:05:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, we I'll see you again soon, all right, buddy.

1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:20.560
<v Speaker 1>So what a cool opportunity I had to get to

1:05:20.640 --> 1:05:22.400
<v Speaker 1>spend some time with Dennis. I hope everybody got a

1:05:22.440 --> 1:05:25.040
<v Speaker 1>lot out of that. Listen, the way we teach junior

1:05:25.080 --> 1:05:28.160
<v Speaker 1>golfers today versus the way that they were taught, you know, fifteen, twenty,

1:05:28.160 --> 1:05:33.000
<v Speaker 1>even thirty years ago, is so dramatically different. And when

1:05:33.000 --> 1:05:35.080
<v Speaker 1>I first met Dennis and I saw the work that

1:05:35.120 --> 1:05:38.640
<v Speaker 1>he was doing with Greg and Dave at TPI and

1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:43.360
<v Speaker 1>went to their junior golf certifications. I think the first

1:05:43.400 --> 1:05:46.400
<v Speaker 1>one I went to was in Madrid in probably two

1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:50.720
<v Speaker 1>thousand and maybe nine, maybe I think two thousand and nine,

1:05:50.760 --> 1:05:55.760
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten. And everybody that works with me, that works

1:05:55.760 --> 1:05:59.640
<v Speaker 1>for me, has all gone through the TPI Junior Development series.

1:05:59.680 --> 1:06:01.560
<v Speaker 1>We have one hundred and eighty kids in our junior

1:06:02.000 --> 1:06:06.680
<v Speaker 1>program in Dubai and out of Dubai, small little golf market,

1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:09.880
<v Speaker 1>but in the last ten eleven years, I think we've

1:06:09.920 --> 1:06:13.560
<v Speaker 1>sent thirty kids to play college golf in the United States.

1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Dubai is a big, big city on the world stage,

1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:18.680
<v Speaker 1>but as a golf market is a very small small

1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:22.480
<v Speaker 1>golf market, so for us to find over thirty kids,

1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:25.640
<v Speaker 1>some of have gone on to play for University of Florida,

1:06:26.200 --> 1:06:30.160
<v Speaker 1>Ohio State, some excuse me, Oklahoma State, some big, big

1:06:30.200 --> 1:06:33.840
<v Speaker 1>programs and we're really proud of that. And it wouldn't

1:06:33.840 --> 1:06:37.040
<v Speaker 1>be if it wasn't for the work that Dennis has

1:06:37.080 --> 1:06:40.520
<v Speaker 1>done in junior golf development. Certainly wouldn't have been able

1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:43.040
<v Speaker 1>to do the stuff we did. So thanks for Dennis

1:06:43.320 --> 1:06:45.720
<v Speaker 1>to talking to us and to me, it was a

1:06:45.760 --> 1:06:49.680
<v Speaker 1>really really good one junior golf development. If you haven't

1:06:50.080 --> 1:06:52.920
<v Speaker 1>thought about it in the way that Dennis talked about it,

1:06:52.960 --> 1:06:57.040
<v Speaker 1>you definitely should. Can't thank everybody enough for listening, Rate, review,

1:06:57.080 --> 1:07:00.360
<v Speaker 1>subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You guys know the

1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:02.400
<v Speaker 1>drill son of a butch comes to you every Wednesday.

1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:03.760
<v Speaker 1>We will see you next week.