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Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to

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Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. This week's guests Dennis McDade. I was

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Speaker 1: down in Australia a couple of weeks ago and got

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Speaker 1: to spend some time with Dennis. He's one of the

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Speaker 1: best golf instructors on the planet on the advisory board

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Speaker 1: at the Titleist Performance Institute. But I think he's most

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Speaker 1: known currently right now is he's the coach for Mark Leishman.

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Speaker 1: He's done a great job with his golf swing, but

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Speaker 1: he to me is at the forefront of junior golf

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Speaker 1: development and that is a lot of what this pod

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Speaker 1: this week is about. Having an opportunity to sit down

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Speaker 1: with Dennis and pick his brain about junior golf, junior

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Speaker 1: golf development, how he works with juniors. He has been

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of junior golf development, helped the guys

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Speaker 1: at the Titleist Performance Institute, doctor Greg Rose and Dave Phillips.

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Speaker 1: Dave's been on the pod as well numerous times, but

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Speaker 1: really helped kind of redesign their team junior program and

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Speaker 1: it was a game changer for me. It's completely changed

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Speaker 1: the way that I teach juniors. We get into how

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Speaker 1: to teach juniors what to look for. One of the

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Speaker 1: cool things about getting to travel is you sometimes run

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Speaker 1: into people that you don't see on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: Dennis lives down in Australia, so I see him a

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Speaker 1: couple of times a year. But being down in all's

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Speaker 1: got to sit down, take a deep dive into junior

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Speaker 1: golf development, junior golf instruction. So if you're a junior golfer,

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Speaker 1: if you have junior golfers in your life as coach

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Speaker 1: or as a parent, and if you're a junior listening,

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Speaker 1: this is a great one. And Dennis, like I said,

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Speaker 1: he is at the forefront of junior golf development. So

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Speaker 1: I think everyone's going to get a lot out of this.

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Speaker 1: Sit back and enjoy listening to Dennis McDade, Dennis Year

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Speaker 1: and I've known each other a long time. For those

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Speaker 1: listening that don't kind of know your background, obviously, coach

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Speaker 1: Mark Leishman, you've worked with a ton of players. You're

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Speaker 1: on the your senior advise reboard at the Titless Performance Institute.

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Speaker 1: We had d Phillips on a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 1: after John Rahm winning. Definitely want to get into that.

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Speaker 1: But for everyone listening kind of tell your background and

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Speaker 1: how you got into golf and golf instruction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was. I was when I was a

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Speaker 2: much younger person human. I was a competitive swimmer. So

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Speaker 2: between the age and yeah, there you go. So between

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Speaker 2: the age and I'm going to say eight and thirteen

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Speaker 2: to fourteen, I was a competitive swimmer. Was it was

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Speaker 2: an outdoor pool, so we'd trained sort of spring through

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Speaker 2: summer and autumn and then winter there was there was

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Speaker 2: no swimming. It was an outdoor pool. And to be honest,

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Speaker 2: back there, I got to the stage where it was

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Speaker 2: really hard to jump in the cold pool at the

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Speaker 2: start and the end of the season. So so Dad,

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Speaker 2: who was a Scott, played a bit of golf and

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Speaker 2: then during winter I started going out with him and

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Speaker 2: just at the local un civil course and got the bug.

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Speaker 1: And you like about golf at an early age, what

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Speaker 1: I really liked was just the interaction with the other juniors.

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Speaker 2: So where I was in Victoria, which is in the

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Speaker 2: south of Australia, juniors at a golf well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: you could join as a junior. Secondly, could plane competitions

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Speaker 2: even on weekends. You could plane club championships, but every

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Speaker 2: school holiday, my dad was a construction form and he

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Speaker 2: dropped me off at the course on the way, dropped

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Speaker 2: me off at the course on the way to work,

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Speaker 2: and he picked me up on the way home. So

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Speaker 2: I just spent my holidays at the golf course with

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Speaker 2: my buddies. And I really that really appealed to me,

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Speaker 2: that that social side of things, and you know, being

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Speaker 2: able to play in practice with people my own age.

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Speaker 2: And then the actual game. The actual game got me,

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Speaker 2: you know, and from a young age, I knew what

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do. I wanted to be a tour player,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I was all right. And obviously the

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Speaker 2: fact that I'm sitting here talking about coaching says that

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Speaker 2: I'm a foil player, But no, that was the the

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Speaker 2: start of me. It just golf hooked me really really quickly.

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Speaker 2: It was like for all people, it was frustrating, but

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Speaker 2: it hooked me really quickly, and I just ended up

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Speaker 2: devoting my life to trying to be a player. And

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Speaker 2: then one of the things that I'm thankful for is

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Speaker 2: is the PJA professionals who I served my traineeship under.

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Speaker 2: I think they call it assistance in the US, assistance.

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Speaker 2: They were both. They both so it was Bruce Grant

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Speaker 2: Row Melbourne and Bob Spencer at keys Mcgolfer, the two

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Speaker 2: guys that I worked under. They both encouraged me to coach.

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Speaker 2: They said, hey, this is definitely part of being a

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Speaker 2: PG professional. You need to know how to repair a

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Speaker 2: golf club. Remember how to repair a golf club. That's

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Speaker 2: what I think for Simon.

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Speaker 1: Heads to know was, you know, sanded them down, learned

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Speaker 1: how to rewheip the shaft. Those are by gone days.

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Speaker 2: Well, explain to my son not that long ago what

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Speaker 2: it meant, because I still say I got it out

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Speaker 2: of the screws because they had.

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Speaker 1: We're also Jennis, we're also dating ourselves. So everybody listener

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Speaker 1: going down those guys are really all wooden golf clubs.

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Speaker 1: And you didn't just go by them and get shafts.

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Speaker 2: And no, and you didn't you didn't change your driver

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Speaker 2: every year and that sort of thing. But anyhow, so

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Speaker 2: so both my my bosses were great. They encouraged me

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Speaker 2: to coach and and and I knew before I finished

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Speaker 2: my traineeship that if things didn't work out as a player,

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Speaker 2: I was going to be a coach because I really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed the social interaction of that as well, like it's

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Speaker 2: it's a real relationship sort of thing. So so when

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Speaker 2: I played in Australia for probably three years or so

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Speaker 2: and then started to go down the path of coaching,

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Speaker 2: and my first coaching job I taught golfers hitting balls

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Speaker 2: into a net at a pitch and put course. That's

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Speaker 2: where I where I started out. And Goody's going to

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Speaker 2: start somewhere, that's right. That's so there were yes, it

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Speaker 2: was that was my start and and I think one

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Speaker 2: of the things I realized pretty quickly is I had

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Speaker 2: an idea what I was doing. So I went and

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Speaker 2: bought some equipment. So back in those days, it was

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Speaker 2: the big camera, like it had no shut of speed,

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Speaker 2: but big camera took the full VHS tape in the

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Speaker 2: side pack and out of the VHS recorder and TV

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Speaker 2: and I used to draw lines and I figured out

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Speaker 2: I still didn't know what I was doing. So it

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Speaker 2: was that point I went and started spending time with

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Speaker 2: some of the better known coaches around Melbourne to try

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Speaker 2: to learn some more. So I'd booked time with them

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Speaker 2: and I'd literally take my tapes along and just go, hey,

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Speaker 2: can I talked about some of the clients that I've

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Speaker 2: been working with and get your opinion on what I'm

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Speaker 2: doing and that sort of thing. So that's where I

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Speaker 2: started off with a fairly broad sort of stroke with

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Speaker 2: that people have spent time with and then gradually sort

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Speaker 2: of whittled that down to the to the people that

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Speaker 2: I was really getting some what I thought was really

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Speaker 2: good information from. So those people Dale Lynch, you know,

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Speaker 2: Dale Lynch was one of those. Dale coached me a

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Speaker 2: bit when I was playing. Stephen Bahm spent some time

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Speaker 2: with you. I intrigues like a lot of different people

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Speaker 2: that I that I whose opinion I sought, and that

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Speaker 2: was sort of the start of me starting to get

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Speaker 2: a bit more of an idea of what not just

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Speaker 2: the technical aspects of coaching were, but the approach and

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Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. And then anyhow so I sort

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Speaker 2: of I sort of progressed and was coaching full time,

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Speaker 2: and to cut along story short, I ended up I

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Speaker 2: won a coaching scholarship to what was the then Australian

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Speaker 2: Institute of Sport Golf program. I was by this time,

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Speaker 2: I was in Queensland up on the Sunshine Coach Coast,

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Speaker 2: coaching a couple of places, and I got a coaching

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Speaker 2: scholarship with with the AIS program, and the head coach,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately passed away at quite a young age, was Ross Herbert.

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Speaker 2: And that was my first taste of elite, a proper

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Speaker 2: elite development program. And I thought I was pretty good coach.

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Speaker 2: And then I got into that program. I thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: I haven't even sort of scratched the service here yet,

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Speaker 2: you know. And to spend time watching someone who was

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Speaker 2: so skilled not only coached the plays, but how he

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Speaker 2: structured the program. And then to see like that was

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Speaker 2: back in so I did ninety five, nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 2: nine ninety six. I am dating myself there a bit,

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Speaker 2: but to see the marriage of the high performance coaching

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Speaker 2: but also the sports science and the sports medicine how

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Speaker 2: that all interacted. And then from there Steve Manadelnch with

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Speaker 2: the head coach and the assistant coach of the VIS program.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the Victorians the sport which was you know, to

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Speaker 1: me is one of it is a legendary you know program,

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Speaker 1: it's to me, it's one of the seminal programs of golf,

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Speaker 1: of modern golf development. You guys kind of were at

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Speaker 1: the forefront coming from Australia, you know, not so much

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Speaker 1: doing it out of the limelight, but because this is

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Speaker 1: so far away. But what you guys were doing was

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Speaker 1: kind of groundbreaking stuff and it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: precursor to what I believe a lot of the US

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Speaker 1: college system does now.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's no doubt in my mind that that the

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Speaker 2: model that the that the VICE program was back then

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Speaker 2: and was carried through for quite some time was one

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Speaker 2: that was used as a template around the world for

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Speaker 2: pipe performance development of golfers. There's no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Badley, Jeff Ogilby, Stuart Appleby, well, all of kind

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Speaker 1: of that the last generation, the kind of pre Adam

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Speaker 1: Scott generation came out of the vis What was the

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Speaker 1: what was the goal of the of the v I

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Speaker 1: S Golf's program? What did you if you had to

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Speaker 1: like sum it up, what would you say? The goal was, Well,

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Speaker 1: the goal.

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Speaker 2: Was to produce players who would achieve it international amateur

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Speaker 2: and especially professional levels. So the goal was to produce

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Speaker 2: top hundred players in the world or top fifty players

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Speaker 2: in the world. And ultimately, once you get to that stage,

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Speaker 2: you're now in that realm where you can produce major winners.

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Speaker 2: As well once you get to that level. So that

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Speaker 2: was very clearly a goal was to develop to develop

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Speaker 2: these young athletes into world class players who are winning

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Speaker 2: at the highest level. That was clearly the goal. And

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Speaker 2: when you've got a goal like that, you can actually

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Speaker 2: structure a program that's meeting those needs. It's not about

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Speaker 2: trying to make them play good for the next Ameur

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Speaker 2: event or an event in three months. The whole mindset

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Speaker 2: is around is okay, well we've got this let's say

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Speaker 2: eighteen year old male coming into the program. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: what do we want them to look like in their

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Speaker 2: mid twenties? And everything was structured working back from being

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Speaker 2: a world class an international players.

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Speaker 1: So kind of what the Olympic development does in other countries.

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Speaker 1: It just had never really been done in golf before, right,

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Speaker 1: really hadn't been golf and golf instruction and golf development

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Speaker 1: hadn't really been treated like you know, the Russian gymnastics system,

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Speaker 1: what they do in China and what they do at

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Speaker 1: all of these elite performance centers exactly.

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Speaker 2: So from from our point of view at the at

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Speaker 2: the at the v I S, if you look at

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Speaker 2: just the numbers that would be coming through the state

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Speaker 2: if you like, you know, the number of like, our

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Speaker 2: numbers are smaller than say in the US, So we

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Speaker 2: structured a program going, well, we're only going to have

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Speaker 2: a finite number of players come through our system. We

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Speaker 2: need to put a program in place that helps every

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Speaker 2: single one of them achieve the highest level possible. So

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Speaker 2: it was it was a it was a very high

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Speaker 2: performance development focused program with that goal in mind that

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Speaker 2: we want these juniors and well so much juniors, but

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Speaker 2: these male and female athletes coming through the program to

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Speaker 2: win on PGA Tour, to win majors. And that was

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Speaker 2: as I said that, that was very clearly the goal

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Speaker 2: of the program.

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Speaker 1: Cut to the chase. You're on the advisory board at

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Speaker 1: the Titleist Performance Institute. I've had Dave Phillips on the

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Speaker 1: on the podcast number of times junior golf development. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, you're at the forefront, and I think the

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Speaker 1: things that you did for junior golf development, it was

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Speaker 1: really kind of changed everybody's way of thinking. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the amazing things, and I know you

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Speaker 1: said this, once junior golfers were tended to be taught

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Speaker 1: by the lowest person on the totem pole at the club,

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Speaker 1: an assistant golf pro who was a trainee. He didn't

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Speaker 1: know anything. He basically has a bunch of kids. They

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Speaker 1: don't know anything. So I remember at a TPI junior

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Speaker 1: seminar once you said, what has happened in the past

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Speaker 1: is amateurs teaching amateurs how to play golf?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, rookies coaching rookies.

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Speaker 1: Rookies coaching rookies, and that that was so obvious that

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Speaker 1: that was the wrong route to go to produce golfers

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Speaker 1: and try and get them in. But that's what happened

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Speaker 1: for years and years and years.

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Speaker 2: It was a real it was a real afterthought. And

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Speaker 2: when you think about I know, you've been very closely

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Speaker 2: linked with TPI and all the work we've done. Once

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Speaker 2: you understand what needs to be done from you know,

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Speaker 2: let's say the age of you know, five through to

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Speaker 2: twenty years of age, you understand just how important it

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Speaker 2: is for our coaches to be highly trained, Like there's

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Speaker 2: a huge market around the world to be a highly

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Speaker 2: skilled junior coach. But that was certainly something that was

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Speaker 2: missing in the air. I suppose when when I was

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Speaker 2: learning to play golf, it was actually hard to get

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Speaker 2: an experienced coach to give you a golf lesson, and

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Speaker 2: it was just rookies coaching rookies, and it was just

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Speaker 2: if you sort of was deep en theory, right, throw

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Speaker 2: them all in the deep end. Whoever swims, you survive,

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Speaker 2: you know. So I think that a big part of

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Speaker 2: what we've done at TPI. And I can't take credit

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Speaker 2: for all of it, you know, I'm one of an

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Speaker 2: amazing advisory board. Is we basically stood back and just said, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: with what we know about human growth and development from

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Speaker 2: childhood through to adulthood, and what we know about how

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Speaker 2: I suppose you should structure a golfer or a young

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Speaker 2: athlete who athlete, I'm sorry, who comes into your program

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Speaker 2: with no skill? How do you actually turn them into

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Speaker 2: an athletic golfer? And that was the genesis of the

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Speaker 2: whole TPI junior program. And I think the other thing

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Speaker 2: that really has changed too, and it's kind of forced

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Speaker 2: to rethink on the way we coached is I started

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Speaker 2: playing golf when I was eleven. How old were you

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Speaker 2: when you started? Probably younger?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean, listen, I didn't really play a lot

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Speaker 1: of golf, but my background was I just like to

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Speaker 1: watch my dad golf lessons, so I was trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out the instruction side of it and that piece

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Speaker 1: of the puzzle. I mean, I've said this numerous times,

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Speaker 1: and for a long time I was embarrassed to say this,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not now. I was never a golfer at

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Speaker 1: any level. I didn't play junior golf. I didn't play

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Speaker 1: high schol golf. I didn't play college golf. I didn't

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Speaker 1: play amateur golf. Golf wasn't cool. And I think this

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Speaker 1: leads into what I was going to talk about with

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Speaker 1: junior golf. Golf when I was growing up, I'm fifty

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Speaker 1: four in about a week's time. My dad was a

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Speaker 1: golf instructor. He wasn't the person he is today. Golf

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Speaker 1: wasn't cool when I was growing up, even though my

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Speaker 1: grandfather won the Masters in nineteen forty eight. But in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, golf wasn't what it was now,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't seen as a sport. It wasn't seen

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Speaker 1: as athletic.

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Speaker 2: So if you look at that component what you've just

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Speaker 2: said there, so if you look at golfers now, I

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Speaker 2: think I used to call it an emergent demographic. It's

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Speaker 2: now demographic, and that's like the five to ten year

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Speaker 2: old junior golf. Like they just weren't around when I

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Speaker 2: was a kid. No one played golf when they were

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Speaker 2: six or seven or whatever. You'd play whatever the summer

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Speaker 2: and winter sports work. But we now we've got to

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Speaker 2: a stage where I feel I get emails and phone

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Speaker 2: calls going, hey, I've got a three year old, when

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Speaker 2: can we sign up for the program. So it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: you need to be ready for that because you might

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Speaker 2: not have a three year old in the program, but

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Speaker 2: you can provide advice around what you do with that

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Speaker 2: with that category of like that age I should say,

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Speaker 2: of junior golfer. But to come back to your point

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Speaker 2: around not being cool and not being athletic, we have

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Speaker 2: this this demographic of junior golfer and their sedentary so

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Speaker 2: they're not not as active. Like when I got home

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Speaker 2: from school when I was a kid, like I'd unlock

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Speaker 2: the door, I'd throw the school bag inside the door,

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Speaker 2: pull the door shut before mom could tell me to

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Speaker 2: come to my homework, and they didn't see me till

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Speaker 2: dark and I'd be playing cricket in the streets or

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Speaker 2: footy or soccer or whatever it was, and that was

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Speaker 2: our athletic development.

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Speaker 1: One of the things in going to all the junior

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Speaker 1: seminars that I've gone to and listened to you and

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Speaker 1: Greg and Dave talk, kids don't play anymore, right. They

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Speaker 1: don't climb trees, they don't play kick the can, they

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Speaker 1: don't ride bikes, they get driven everywhere, they sit in chairs,

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Speaker 1: they're on their phones all the time. And one of

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Speaker 1: the TPI mantras from a junior standpoint has been to

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Speaker 1: create athletes first, golfer. Second, we all teach regular people

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Speaker 1: to play golf. Right, you have a fifty five sixty

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Speaker 1: year old person who's been playing golf their entire life.

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Speaker 1: They're a business person, they don't really do anything athletic.

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Speaker 1: It's very hard to train a non athlete to play golf.

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that was just

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Speaker 1: mind blowing to me, And again it seems it was

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Speaker 1: groundbreaking when you guys came up with it, but it

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, it's much easy. It's easy for me

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Speaker 1: and you to work with tour players because they're skilled athletes. Right.

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Speaker 1: You can tell them to do things, you can get

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Speaker 1: them to do things they can do what you ask

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Speaker 1: them to do from an athletic physical scamper the technical

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Speaker 1: side of things, that's something different. But having an athlete first,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you get a golfer that comes

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Speaker 1: in and he's in his forties and he's played multiple

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Speaker 1: sports his whole life, he's in the gym, he's active

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Speaker 1: and stuff, they're much easier to coach and train and

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Speaker 1: help improve than if they have no athletic ability.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more so. I think if they're and

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there aren't like any golf coach could relate

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Speaker 2: to this. You have like a I don't know, an

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Speaker 2: eight or a nine year old boy or girl walking

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Speaker 2: to your academy. They've never picked up a golf club.

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Speaker 2: You show them how to hold a club and straight

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Speaker 2: away they go whosh, and you just go, my god,

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Speaker 2: I've got a superstar in my hands because you're looking

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Speaker 2: at athletic expression and they're able to pick up a

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Speaker 2: golf club and apply that really quickly. But what a

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Speaker 2: lot of people fail to realize is what's happened before

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Speaker 2: they've walked into your academy. Right, they're probably from the

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Speaker 2: age of since they can walk they've sampled all these

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Speaker 2: different sports. They're a good or round athlete, and then

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Speaker 2: they can just express that when they hold a golf

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Speaker 2: club and try to hit a golf ball, and if

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Speaker 2: you look at the other side of that, you get

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Speaker 2: that sentry child that we were just talking about, who

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Speaker 2: come in and you go, my god, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: have them work cut out here, And at least now

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Speaker 2: we know rather than going, my god, how am I

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Speaker 2: going to teach them to play? Like? My mind set

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Speaker 2: is straight away, I've got to turn them into a

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Speaker 2: better athlete, because if I can turn them into a

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Speaker 2: better athlete, it makes it so much easier for me

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Speaker 2: to teach them how to become a golfer. And one

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Speaker 2: of the things, and you've heard us talk about this,

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Speaker 2: the five reasons kids do sport right. Number one, it's

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Speaker 2: got to be fun. Number two, we've got to make

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Speaker 2: they've got to be able to do it with their

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Speaker 2: friends or make friends. Number three, they've got to feel welcome,

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Speaker 2: so we want to talk about some of the country

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Speaker 2: clubs and what happens around the world. Number four, it's

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Speaker 2: got to feel too, feel good to do. And the

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Speaker 2: other one is they've got to be good at it.

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Speaker 2: So if you get a young junior coming to the

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Speaker 2: program they've got no athletic ability and they suck at golf,

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Speaker 2: they're probably not going to hang around too long. Right.

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Speaker 2: So our job is to actually as coaches, is to

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Speaker 2: is to recognize that assess them. We always assess. Don't

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Speaker 2: guess right, We assess and we just go, hey, Jimmy

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Speaker 2: or Jane, there's a couple of holes in your athletic

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Speaker 2: development here. Golf can be a difficult game until we

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Speaker 2: get those, you know, sorted out.

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Speaker 1: But don't worry.

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Speaker 2: You hang with us. We're going to sort those out.

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Speaker 2: You're going to be a good player, you know, eventually,

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Speaker 2: whatever approach you want to take. But being able to

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Speaker 2: understand that, you're not seeing lack of commitment or ability,

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Speaker 2: you're seeing a lack of athletic development, which makes it

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Speaker 2: tough as coaches. Right.

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Speaker 1: One of the things my grandfather said, and he passed

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Speaker 1: it on to my father, and my father passed on

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Speaker 1: to me. My dad used to always say, it's our

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Speaker 1: job to teach people to play golf, not teach golf

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Speaker 1: to people. And I think a lot of what we

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Speaker 1: used to do with juniors is we'd have these lessons

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Speaker 1: with a six seven year old, and we'd be trying

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Speaker 1: to give them golf lessons like we give someone who's

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Speaker 1: been playing golf twenty years. Work on your grip, posture,

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Speaker 1: stance alignment. One of the things that was groundbreaking to

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Speaker 1: me when I watched you all at TPI when you

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Speaker 1: developed your Junior Golf Cyclone. And I'd love for you

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Speaker 1: to talk about that. You guys were working with juniors

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Speaker 1: for an hour and kids that have never really they've

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Speaker 1: got a golf club in their hand for less than

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Speaker 1: five to ten minutes of them. Talk about the Junior

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Speaker 1: Golf Cyclone and how it came about. Because I know

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Speaker 1: part of that came about with you, because I've seen

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Speaker 1: the videos and I've watched how you raised your children

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Speaker 1: and the crazy things that your children were doing on

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Speaker 1: jungle gym's where ives and I remember once saying, it's

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Speaker 1: a good thing you don't live in America because someone

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Speaker 1: would sue you for allowing your children to play like that,

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Speaker 1: because kids don't do that anymore. But the Junior Golf Cyclone.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about what that is.

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Speaker 2: So the Junior Golf Cyclone that basically aligns with the

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Speaker 2: fundamentals phase in LTAD long Term Athlete Development, and basically

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Speaker 2: our philosophy there is we want to hook these kids

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Speaker 2: on golf.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So, but if you had a I don't know, a

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Speaker 2: six year old boy and you had him hit balls

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Speaker 2: for an hour and he's not very good, he's probably

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Speaker 2: going to get see a golf pretty quick, right, He's

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Speaker 2: going to end up really not enjoying himself.

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Speaker 1: Again, that's teaching golf to people. This is golf, this

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Speaker 1: is how you have to learn it, and if you

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Speaker 1: can't learn it like that, well then golf just isn't

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: And that's I did that. I think everybody that's an

435
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 1: instructor at some point that's listening to this. If you're

436
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 1: an instructor, you did that. At some point you were saying, hey,

437
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: this is golf. We're going to teach it to you,

438
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: and if you can't absorb it or do it, then

439
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: you need to find another sport.

440
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. So basically exactly right. So basically with the psyche plone,

441
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 2: our we get together. If I explain what happens, we

442
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: get together. We have some warm ups which are like

443
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: it's all age appropriate, right, So it's an age appropriate

444
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: warm up. It's a bit of fun, but there is

445
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 2: an intent behind that and it's developing what we call

446
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 2: fundamental movement skills. So four categories of that. There's locomotion,

447
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: anything used to get from A to B, the ABC's agility, balance, coordination, speed,

448
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: object control, kicking, throwing, striking, punching.

449
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's another thing that's huge, hugely important in

450
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: junior golf development is the ability to kick, the ability

451
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: to throw, the ability to punch. One of the things

452
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: that I know that you guys at TPI came up

453
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: with that girls versus boys catching patterns, the ability to

454
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: catch an object. It's very different in young boys versus

455
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: young girls, but that is a fundamental pattern of trying

456
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: to find your in space, how to grasp an object.

457
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: There are so many things that you're asking someone to

458
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: do when they throw you a ball, but if you

459
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: don't know how to catch a ball and do that,

460
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 1: it's very difficult to progress.

461
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Correct, So you can, like with what we're talking

462
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 2: about here with the athletic development, I'll get back to

463
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 2: the cyclone at the moment you actually need a child,

464
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: oh I think anyway, a child athletic development specialist. So

465
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: the perfect. The perfect analogy I would give here with

466
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: this category of junior, with this early age junior is

467
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 2: like the primary school in Australia, I think, do you

468
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: call it elementary school like elementary school in the US.

469
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: Like the sports teacher from the elementary school or from

470
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: primary school is perfect for this program because that's what

471
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: that says, special jump rope. That s yes, specialty Ryan

472
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: is in developing that. So our cyclone basically we have

473
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 2: a warm up which and again it's not just warming up,

474
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: there's an intent to that. Then we take our juniors

475
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 2: through a number of stations, okay, and it's all around

476
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: athletic development, and it's a golf program, so there's some

477
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: golf stations. So in our cyclone program there are four

478
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 2: athletic development stations if you like, and two golf stations.

479
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: So when I'm talking about a station, there will be

480
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: an activity in each one of those stations. So it

481
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 2: might be, hey, there's a target over the Volco target

482
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: over there. You've got to pick up one of those

483
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: balls and you've got to throw it at the target.

484
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: Keep score if you like. Whatever. That's just an example, right,

485
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: and what we do in each one of those stations.

486
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: Because juniors have different juniors are at different stages of development.

487
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 2: We can grade the difficulty, provide a little more challenge,

488
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: back off on the challenge a little bit, and then

489
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: the instructor is in there a bit like you spoke

490
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: about with coaching before. The instructors in there providing some

491
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: really age appropriate coaching if you like, around how to

492
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 2: throw a better, or how to how to you know,

493
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: jump better, or whatever it is. And then there'll be

494
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: a couple of golf stations as well. And each one

495
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: of those golf stations. By the way, it doesn't look

496
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: like you and I coaching an adult like there is

497
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 2: an outcome based activity. It's it's very much game based.

498
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: There might be one point of instruction, so I would

499
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: use example that well. I always say this development sequential.

500
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 2: You can't start with calculus if you're learning maths, right,

501
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 2: You've got to start with with all the basics. So

502
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: we do that in our program and just on that

503
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 2: haven't spoken about it yet. One of the great things

504
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: that the advisory board did when we're having the discussions

505
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: around this, and you've got you've got the likes of

506
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: Dr Ernstwick, who's a you know, who's a specialist in

507
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 2: growth and maturation. Now what a man is Mile O'Bryant,

508
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: Greg Rose, Istvan Bali. You know all of these these guys,

509
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: and we've just said, hey, what's the best what's the

510
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 2: best structure for learning in the world. We've just gone

511
00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: all to school.

512
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: Right.

513
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 2: So, if you've got a young child and you take

514
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: them along to grade one, there's an expectation as a

515
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: parent that when they come out at the end of

516
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: grade one, they're going to have certain they're going to

517
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: have been exposed to certain skills.

518
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 1: Certain skills to allow them to go to grade two. Correct.

519
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: And that was our philosophy around structuring the program for

520
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: the cyclone and from there was two was going, right, well,

521
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 2: what's grade one? What do we have in grade one?

522
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 2: What do we having grade one from a golf point

523
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: of view? What do we have in grade one from

524
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: an athletic development point of view? How do we make

525
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: it fun, age appropriate and have them actually learn something?

526
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: Because what we want is we want our We want

527
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: them coming back because we know we need them for

528
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: like ten years, right, we know that it's a minimum

529
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: of ten years. We need them four to turn them

530
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: into highly competent golfers. So that's where we so the

531
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 2: cyclone again sort of going backward and forwards. We start

532
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: with a warm up, we run through the stations. The

533
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: stations run from maximum of about four and a half

534
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: to five minutes, so there's no getting stuck in a

535
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: station for twenty thirty minutes because when we're.

536
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: Dealing with young kids, the retention span. But again, we

537
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: used to expect a six year old kid to be

538
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: able to focus in a golf lesson teaching them golf

539
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 1: stuff that you would be teaching to a forty five

540
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: year old fifteen handicapper, and we would get as instructors,

541
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: you get frustrated because the kid's not listening. But it

542
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: all now seems so simple in the way that you

543
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: teach logically, the way you would do everything else.

544
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right. And that's the thing we were talking

545
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 2: about rookies coaching rookies before. I think with what we

546
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: know now, when I look for a new junior golf coach,

547
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: I have one criteria and one criteria only, and that

548
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: is you want to coach juniors. You're absolutely that's all

549
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: you want to do is coach juniors. Because I feel

550
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: like I can give you everything else you need. Everything

551
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: else you need to be a great junior coach. I

552
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: have to have for teaching junior two cook story. I

553
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: moved from a facility. This is going back twelve years ago.

554
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: I moved from a facility where I built up a

555
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: big junior program to the other side of town. It

556
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: was like twenty five miles away, and we were starting

557
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: from scratch, and so we ran a school holiday program.

558
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: So we advertised around all the local elementary schools program schools,

559
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: and we had a whole bunch of juniors arrived and

560
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: I said to the coach as I said, right, who

561
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: wants to be junior coach? And they all put the

562
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: hand up and I thought, okay, well I'll give you

563
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 2: a run. And anyhow, we ran this junior golf school,

564
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: and what I was really interested in is what the

565
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: coaches did in the breaks. So so I kind of

566
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: I kind of kept a bit of an eye on

567
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: what they were doing, and you know, they kind of

568
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: had a bit of an idea or not, and that

569
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: wasn't important to me. But there was one coach who

570
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: in the break, like just about every kid in the

571
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: program was following around. He kind of looked at I'm

572
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: showing them away, and I've just gone, that's my junior

573
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: coach because the kids are gravitating to him. And kids

574
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 2: are very perceptive. Right, if you don't pass a sniff that,

575
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: if you don't pass a sniff test with the kids,

576
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: you're done right. And out of all the coaches, they

577
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: just hung around him, and I just said, hey, you've

578
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: got the makings of a junior coach. He said, he said,

579
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: do you think really said, I didn't think I knew

580
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: what I was doing. I said, yeah, but the kid

581
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: love you. And that was it. So he's actually still

582
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: running my junior program out at Yarraban Public Course. He's

583
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: just done that ever since. And he's a great junior coach.

584
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, give me Dennis for I know it's a generalization,

585
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: but for junior golfers and for junior golf parents, one

586
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: of the things that we know the worst case, and

587
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: I know this is the worst case for you. The

588
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: thirteen year old child whose parents took them out of

589
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: all other sports at six years old, and for the

590
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: last six years old, the twelve year old has done

591
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: nothing other than play golf. He's got a beautiful golf swing,

592
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: has no real athletic talent, has no real athletic development.

593
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: He just plays golf. You get those, I get those

594
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 1: I hear all the time. No, No, my son just

595
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: focused on golf. Just focus on golf. My daughter should

596
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: just focus on golf. What are the pitfalls that you

597
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: feel that that can cause with junior golfers and how

598
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: it can inhibit their development?

599
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: So the first thing I would say is an moving

600
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: just as an extension of what we spoke about before

601
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 2: and the structure of the cyclone program from an LTD.

602
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: From an lt a D point of view, there's a

603
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: window that needs to be hit. Okay, and I didn't

604
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: mention this when we were talking about cyclone. There's an

605
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: opportunity to build speed, right, So there are windows of

606
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 2: opportunity from the maturation from childhood to adulthood that you

607
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: and the easiest way to explain them for those parents

608
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: who might be listening is there are times in that

609
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: period from childhood to adulthood where the body is particularly

610
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: trainable for certain athletic attributes. So we talk about speed, strength, stamina, skill,

611
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: et cetera. So, so what happens when there's been a

612
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: focus on golf early you will develop some of those

613
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: athletic attributes, but you won't develop all of them. And

614
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: as we know nowadays, like people are always talking about

615
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: speed and there are two speed windows. Like if you've

616
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: focused solely on golf from a young age and that's

617
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: all you've done, you've probably missed that window, and that

618
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: will put a ceiling on how fast you can be

619
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: if you like, when you're an adult.

620
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: What are those speed windows?

621
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: Speed windows now different for boys and girls? And you're

622
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: going to You've put me right on the spot here.

623
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to say the first speed window for girls

624
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: is four to seven years of age biological aide. Second

625
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: speed window, sorry, first speed window for boys is six

626
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: to nine years of age and biological age, not chronological

627
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: age because they all grow at different speeds. And then

628
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: the second window is that take off when they go

629
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: through the growth spurt. And I'll get this wrong, but

630
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to say it's thirteen to fifteen for boys,

631
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: and I think eleven to fourteen for girls. It's like that,

632
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: it's like when they start growing fast, you train them fast, right,

633
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: That's how I thing. When they're growing fast, train them fast.

634
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: But that would be roughly correct. There'll be a few

635
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 2: LTAD people just sort of look skywards when I said that,

636
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: but it's basically there and I think that. Sorry, just

637
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: to answer your question, I think the danger with developing

638
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: skills only you get that illusion of success. So if

639
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: you've got a skilled coach training a junior in all

640
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: the technical aspects of golf, they can go out there

641
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 2: and perform at quite a high level as a junior,

642
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: but they're going to get overtaken by the athletes who

643
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 2: also develop their technical attributes along the same time. At

644
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: some stage they're going to get overtaken. So they might

645
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: be the ones who are, you know, winning the trophies

646
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 2: at a young age, but often they get overtaken. So

647
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we use the some of our

648
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: research suggests that I think it was three to four

649
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: percent of age division winners, junior age division winners around

650
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: the world go on to achieve at professional level. So

651
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: in my mind, it's like, I don't want to what's

652
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 2: there's no rushes shouldn't be focused on winning at those

653
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: age levels. There should be a focus on development, like

654
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: even right through to sort of nearly college level. Right.

655
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: Do you think that could be the reason why, Dennis

656
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: that I guess this is a generalization, but I see

657
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: more juniors that are better when they're fifteen and sixteen

658
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: than they are when they're twenty. Right, and the world beaters,

659
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: I mean they're winning. There are prolific golfers, and that

660
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: jump from level to level to level. And you know,

661
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people playing golf at a

662
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: very very high level that are superstars that weren't necessarily

663
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: great juniors. They weren't the best junior in their city,

664
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: they weren't the best junior in their state, their country,

665
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: and then you have these other kids. You know, I

666
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: always ask tour players, hey, when you were growing up,

667
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: was who was the g right? Who was the best player?

668
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: And who are you surprised that didn't make it? And

669
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: every tour player will go, man, when I was when

670
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: I was a junior, when I was in high school,

671
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: even when I was in college, this kid was a

672
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: absolute world beater stud and they just never made it.

673
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? That's just such a

674
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: sad scenario where they've played the best golfer, They laugh

675
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: between fifteen and seven eight, all right, like that says,

676
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: what the hell did we do wrong? You know? But

677
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: I look at that situation. I've seen it a lot

678
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 2: if you look at So if you take that example

679
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 2: of the years before of someone who's focused solely on golf,

680
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: let's say, and they're developing those golf specific skills, and

681
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 2: then they get their growth spurt before everyone else. So

682
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: now that not only have they got golf skill, they've

683
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: got the advantage of some early strength and size, right,

684
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they're better athletes. And at that stage

685
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 2: you've got golf specific skill that's been developed with the

686
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: addition of some length. And that growth spurt affects everyone differently.

687
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: Some people, some juniors, hit the growth spurt and they

688
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: lose their they lose their skill. It's not unusual, and

689
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 2: some don't. It's just it affects everyone differently. But I

690
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 2: think you know what happens is a lot of the

691
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: late bloomers. So if we talk about LTA D that

692
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: the ones that hit their growth spurt late, they spend

693
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 2: more time in skills phase. So after our cyclone program,

694
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 2: we have our smash program, which is the easiest way

695
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 2: to put it, is like late elementary school age. We

696
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 2: always talk biological age, but I'm just trying to give

697
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 2: one a bit of an idea around it. And that's

698
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: from an LTA D point of view, that skills phase, right,

699
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: So if you hit your growth spurt later, you can

700
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: have an extra year developing or two developing your skills

701
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: before you hit your growth spurt. Okay, so just remember

702
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 2: in our program, although I call it skills phase, you're

703
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: developing skills around all of your athletic hat reviews as well.

704
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: So now once those kids get or those juniors get

705
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: through the growth spurt and whatever challenges that's presented, they're

706
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: better athletes. They're as skilled, if not more skilled, because

707
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 2: they spent more time in skills phase and they overtake

708
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 2: those juniors a lot of them anyway, that were early

709
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 2: bloomers and skills specific if you like, just focus solely

710
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 2: on skill now some of them make it now, they

711
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: don't all fail. But with the way the game is nowadays,

712
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: like we know how much the game's changed over the

713
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: last sort of twenty to thirty years. Yeah, just lends

714
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: itself to the ones that are as we say, athletes first,

715
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: golf sag and love for the game A lot build

716
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: a love for the game along the way.

717
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: What are some sports for junior golfers outside of golf

718
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: that you think are really really important but also can

719
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: help develop golfers.

720
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 2: That's a great question because you can spend a lot

721
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: of time being a multi sport athlete and play all

722
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 2: the sports that really don't help golf much. Right, So

723
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 2: I think the best sports, like golf's a ballistic rotary movement. Right.

724
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: So I look at any of the field sports, Olympic

725
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: field sports like you know, shot put, discus, hammer, any javelin,

726
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: any of that stuff, I'm just going, yeap, giddy up,

727
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: let's get in there. That's that's really going to help rotation.

728
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: That's rotation. I think things like table tennis is really good,

729
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 2: like starting to understand spin reaction, that sort of thing.

730
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: I really like volleyball for vertical jump and obviously there's

731
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: a rotation in spiking that sort of thing. And bad minton.

732
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: I really like bad minton as well for similar reasons.

733
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: Jam Plenty of one of the old world long drive guys.

734
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: He was a he was a competition badminton player. He

735
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: and everybody said, you know, here's a kid. He was

736
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: like one of the early long drive guys. But he

737
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: wasn't big, he wasn't a body builder, but he was

738
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: able to create that kind of speed. One of the

739
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: other ones I know that that that you and Greg

740
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: and Davi at TPI talked about martial arts big for golf.

741
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: So if we yes, so, I would think if you

742
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: go backwards just a little bit, saying into a slightly

743
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 2: younger age, say even pre cyclone cyclone, I think martial

744
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 2: arts are great because it's training both sides of the body.

745
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: Like when you work up and down the jojo, you're

746
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 2: using both sides of the body. That's the first day

747
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: you get there. That's trained right. And there's all sorts

748
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 2: of movements where you have to move, you know, stabilize, rotate, throw, kickstrup.

749
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: There's a whole bunch of stuff there. And then the

750
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: other thing is gymnastics, like peewee gymnastics and that sort

751
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: of thing that's totaling yep.

752
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: I mean one of the things that I know that

753
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: you all do with a lot of juniors, and again

754
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: you do this in front of pack. I've actually and

755
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: I implement now this with junior golfers that are in

756
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: high school. Hopping, skipping, rolling patterns massive for learning how

757
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: to control your body in space, learning how to accelerate decelerate,

758
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: but you'd be surprised. I mean, you'll watch it and

759
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: I do this. Now. I'll watch a kid and he's

760
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: trying to play golf. The parents have taken him out

761
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: all the other sports. You can see that his coordination

762
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,959
Speaker 1: and his ability to control the club face isn't really great.

763
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: And I remember you all doing this at a TPI

764
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: junior conference once. We got a kind of a ladder

765
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: that you put on the ground where you have to

766
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, just boxes you have to hop, skip and

767
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: learn how to control. It's amazing to watch kids that

768
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: are trying to play competitive golf that have no ability

769
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 1: to hop from one box to the next box. Today.

770
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: Things that you did is kids when I was growing up,

771
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: you hop scotch. Nobody plays those sports. Nobody does that anymore.

772
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: Those patterns, the running, skipping, jumping, learning how to jump

773
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: rope all things that we used to do as children

774
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: and that children don't do today, but are massively important

775
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: for you as a human being to be able to

776
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: learn how to control your body correct.

777
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to some extent, everything you've just spoken about

778
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: there is what we've put back into our junior program

779
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: because are just so critical to like that's the athletic

780
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 2: foundation that our juniors need to to begin to become

781
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: decent players. And we look at we're very specific with

782
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 2: what we do. So in our cyclone, for example, we

783
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: teach them how to sprint, like just shortbursts. Everything's fast, right,

784
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: because that speed windows open. But the movements we have,

785
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 2: we do skipping because skipping teachers dissociation hip association. So

786
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 2: we have exercises that are in our athletic stations and

787
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 2: in our golf stations that teach transition without them holding

788
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: onto a golf club, Like, how do you teach transition

789
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 2: and the movement you want to a five year old

790
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 2: where you better not have a golf club in the

791
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 2: hand to be talking about, Hey, what I want you

792
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: to do? As you get near the top? I want

793
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 2: you to start yell ower, body firing this like you

794
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 2: need a game and an activity where they don't even

795
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: know that you're teaching it, right, So we have activities.

796
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: We have skipping in there, we have hopping and of

797
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: course you know the ability to jump and stabilize in

798
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: a leg Hay, I think that's in a golf swing

799
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: and then sliding side to side where you're transferring weight

800
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: having to stabilize, go back the other way, stabilize like

801
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: they're all like, it's interesting. Sometimes you get parents go hey,

802
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 2: why are you doing this, And I'll just say, hey,

803
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 2: in the golf swing, you gotta do this, and they go, oh,

804
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:07,919
Speaker 2: I get it. Cool.

805
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: That's great because one of the things that you do

806
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: that I've seen you guys doing. We did this as

807
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,760
Speaker 1: well in our junior program that we have in Dubai.

808
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: Having a young child, say listen, swing this tennis racket,

809
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: you know, do this for ten reps. Now take a

810
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: ball and throw the ball right. Do that ten times.

811
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: Now kick a soccer ball. Do that ten times, and

812
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: both sides of the body, both sides of the body.

813
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: And then say, all right, remember what you were doing

814
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: when you had the tennis racket in your hand. Now

815
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 1: we're going to put a golf club in your hand.

816
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: It's basically the same type of and I think because

817
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: golf has always been taught as is, but I think

818
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: back in the day, golf was taught in a way

819
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: that it was golf specific, right. These were golf specific

820
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: movement patterns that didn't really have anything to do with

821
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: the wider athletic movement that you would make another and

822
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: every other sport, right. So I don't think most people

823
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: that are trying to play golf realize how much you

824
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: are asking your body to do in a dynamic movement

825
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: pattern that's over in one point five to two seconds.

826
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: We're asking you and you've got two feet, two legs,

827
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: two arms, two hands, You've got all of these body

828
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: parts that you're trying to coordinate in a very very

829
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: small window, and we're asking you to do that from

830
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: a completely static position. I gave a golf lesson once

831
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: to a guy that had sold his semiconductor company to

832
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: the US government and was now a I mean a captain,

833
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,240
Speaker 1: I mean just made stupid money. And when I tell you, Dennis,

834
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: he had no athletic ability. He was a scientist, he's

835
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: a buffin right. He just had no athletic ability at all.

836
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: And he wanted to learn how to play golf. And

837
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: it was just like pulling teeth. It was brutal, and

838
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: he's sweating and I'll never forget this, he said. You

839
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: know the hardest part about this sport for me is

840
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: I have to start the move movement from zero energy.

841
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: And I just went, what the hell did you just say? It?

842
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: Just blew my mind. I'm like, yeah, because every other

843
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: sport that you play, you're running to where the opponent

844
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,400
Speaker 1: is you think is going, or is going. You're throwing

845
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: the ball to where the So it's all about but

846
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: in golf, we put you in this static position, the

847
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: balls on the ground, you're to the side of it.

848
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 1: You've got to hold a golf club with two hands,

849
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: but there's only one golf club. And now we go, okay,

850
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: now you start the movement from no movement and figure

851
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: out a way to control that. And so I think

852
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: all of the things that you're talking about that you

853
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: guys do in these junior golf cyclones are all about

854
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: trying to get people to understand that golf is just

855
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: like every other sport you play that's really a road

856
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: or re sport. You're going to get your body to

857
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: move in a pattern and throwing, kitching, kicking, punching, striking

858
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: patterns are hugely important for motor skill development.

859
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 2: And they have at one hundred percent true and they

860
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 2: have a very direct correlation to a golf swing. Is

861
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: like we've said it a couple of times already, but

862
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: there's a great transfer of learning into into a golf swing,

863
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: and you know a lot of the stuff around club

864
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 2: phase control that can be done at a younger age.

865
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: You know, you've heard us say the seminars all the time.

866
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: Our goal in the cyclone program is speed, Like we

867
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: could care less where it goes, because let's create some speed. Hey,

868
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 2: when we're in skills phase, we'll start to teach a

869
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: little more around some of that control. Remembering that the

870
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 2: junior boys and girls who are in our cyclone program

871
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: like to some extent, it's the larger muscles that are

872
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 2: wired that that that brain development and the smaller you know,

873
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: fine control over the smaller muscles happens later in the

874
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 2: maturation cycle. So why are we trying to teach like

875
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: awesome club face control here where they haven't actually got

876
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: control over the bodies yet. It's kind of like what

877
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: you just said before. You know, it's that that static

878
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: movement having to control all these things. Well, that they're

879
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: still learning to feel their body let alone, and not

880
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 2: all the muscles are wide beautifully yet you know that

881
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 2: that happens in that in that next phase right with

882
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 2: with with with brain development, start laying milin down. You know,

883
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 2: all the different pathways and.

884
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: I've got a really good friend.

885
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: Sorry getting it off track there.

886
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: I've got a really good friend that used to play

887
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: professional football soccer in the UK, Irish god named Stephen Grant.

888
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: And after he started playing after he quit playing golf,

889
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: he decided, or after he quit playing football, he decided

890
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a professional golfer. He's made it

891
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 1: the second stage in Europe and the US a couple

892
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: of times. One of Roy McElroy's really really good friends.

893
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: You know, he's got kind of a unique golf swing.

894
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: But the guy's short game is as good as savvy

895
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: bi asteros, because the way that he would kick a football,

896
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,720
Speaker 1: the way that he would move his foot to spin

897
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: the ball in different directions, and he's like a savant

898
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: with short game, and tour guys play with him and

899
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: they're like, bro, your short game is unbelievable. But it

900
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: all came from his ability to kick a football and

901
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: to have it move in a certain pattern in a

902
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 1: certain way, and to spin the ball in a certain

903
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 1: way with his foot. He took the exact same thing

904
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: that he did with his feet and just applied it.

905
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: They are swinging shots.

906
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: He's a great shaper of the golf ball too. He

907
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: can move the golf ball a lot of different He

908
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: was never really the longest player, but his ability to

909
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: control the flight of the golf.

910
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,319
Speaker 2: Ball, and he would he would I mentioned, he would

911
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: see it.

912
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 1: And his short game was devoid of technique. Like I

913
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: taught him for a long time and he would go,

914
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 1: let's go work on your short game. And I'm like, mate,

915
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: your short game is you don't need to work on that.

916
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, but I feel like my technique

917
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: isn't good. I was like, your technique is unbelievable because

918
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: it works. He's like, yeah, but I don't like the

919
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: way it looks. I said, who cares how it looks.

920
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: It's so unbelievably functional. But that all came from the

921
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: way that he was trained. I've been lucky enough to

922
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: meet some of the the polo guys, the Pierra's Boys

923
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 1: from Argentina. The things that they can do with golf

924
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: clubs as a result of the way that they are

925
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 1: on horses, their eye hand coordination in riding a horse

926
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: but also using a polo mallet. When I watched them

927
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: play golf again, their short games are beyond belief because

928
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: they're riding on a horse at twenty five miles an

929
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: hour and they've got to nudge this ball at full

930
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: speed hanging off this horse, and they've got amazing short games.

931
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,760
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to watch that kind of crossover from other sports.

932
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: Dennis, that was a little bit sorry, just that was

933
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: a little bit like I spoke about, like table tennis,

934
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: so like the spins and figuring out what you do

935
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 2: with a racket and your wrist to get the.

936
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: Ball to move and risk kind of development.

937
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: Like how many of these guys are here this way?

938
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: If you took them on a table tennis, they just

939
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: wipe you off the the table, right They just.

940
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, Denis. Obviously the athletes are playing golf.

941
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: Do you think we've reached I mean, Dave, when I

942
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: had Dave phil Phillips on the podcast a couple of

943
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: weeks ago, we were talking about speed and you know,

944
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: this new rollback of the golf ball, everybody's saying, everybody's

945
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: going to be hitting the golf ball at you know,

946
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: two hundred mile an hour, you know, plus club hit

947
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: our ball speed. Dave thinks that there's a ceiling that

948
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,800
Speaker 1: you can compete with speed.

949
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: Right.

950
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: I think the governing bodies and the wider public just say, Okay,

951
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: speed is killing golf, but the long drive guys, they're

952
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: not winning golf trumps. Yes, Bryson went on that run,

953
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: but Bryson is even scaled back what he's done to

954
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: Where do you think we are in twenty twenty three

955
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: from an athletic standpoint? But where do you think? What's

956
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: the ceiling on? How athletic this sport, as golf, as golfers,

957
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: how athletic can it become?

958
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting question. So it wasn't that long

959
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: ago we thought no one would ever break the four

960
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: minute mile, and now college students do it. I think

961
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: that the way golfers are trained has changed, and they're

962
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: all athletes. I don't know whether I would talk about

963
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 2: a ceiling, but what I would say is that since

964
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 2: we always talk about speed but not so much about efficiency,

965
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: because I think you can actually get a golf ball

966
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: going further with moderate increases in speed by moving more efficiently,

967
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 2: like knowing musculature, how it all interacts, how you need

968
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: to move to create a really efficient sequence. And then

969
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: if you make that faster, I think ball's going to

970
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 2: go even further up. So around that, I think that

971
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 2: we probably don't need to open the can of worms

972
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 2: around how far the ball goes and golf courses and

973
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 2: what we're having to do. But I would think that

974
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,320
Speaker 2: the sports fundamentally changed. I don't see it going back.

975
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: I think I think the other thing that we need

976
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: to look at here is speed is one thing, but

977
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 2: it's still a game. There's still an art involved here.

978
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: And I look at the best players, and yes, they've

979
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: they're they're probably within a certain bandwidth of speed, but

980
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 2: they've got great control as well. And that's that's where

981
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 2: I see it. It's like, you know, speed without control

982
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 2: or efficiency ain't gonna work out here unless there's some

983
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 2: sort of advancement in equipment that I sort of can't

984
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 2: see just around the corner. So I think there's a

985
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: there's a job for all of us to do as

986
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 2: a as a you know, is working around these players

987
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: and these developmental players, you know, the sports science community

988
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 2: and the sports medicine community, and coaches, you know, high

989
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,240
Speaker 2: performance coaches around finding that blend of for this player,

990
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: how does this player need to move? You know, what

991
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: does the how does that what is their body needs

992
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: to look like in five years time, how with their physiology,

993
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 2: what's the most efficient way for them to move? And

994
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: then how fast can they move that way without breaking

995
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 2: down physically or injury wise, and have the control they

996
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 2: need over the ball golf ball? And can we also

997
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,399
Speaker 2: teach them like your analogy before with the guy who

998
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 2: the footy guy, can they actually have some control over

999
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: that as well? Like how much control do they need

1000
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 2: in the modern game with equipments. That's a whole nother discussion, right,

1001
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 2: But that would be the way I would see this

1002
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 2: is just finding what's optimum for each player, because for

1003
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: some of them anyway, I'm probably just going to go

1004
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 2: over what I just said, But that's probably more the way.

1005
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 2: The way I see things is we'll get to the

1006
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 2: stage where we'll just go right, how close well I

1007
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 2: know this, if you look at look at some of

1008
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 2: my players, they'll just go right, what's my man acts?

1009
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 2: Where does the ball going when I'm going at max?

1010
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 2: And how do I feel? How far back from that

1011
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: do I back off to get within that bandwidth of

1012
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: distance and control that I want. That's going to be

1013
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: different for every play and every player's program is going

1014
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 2: to be different, right, but that's kind of the way

1015
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 2: I see it. With my background and the people I'm

1016
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 2: fortunate enough to work with or smarter than me, it's

1017
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 2: just going right for this person with their physiology, this

1018
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: is their most efficient movement. We can prove that on

1019
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 2: three D. We can see it in the flight, the

1020
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 2: players talking about the control they've got, the strike, my

1021
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: good shots, it feels like my good shots going where

1022
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 2: it should go. The bad shot it should be going there.

1023
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,479
Speaker 2: And then just figure, as I said, figuring out what's

1024
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: the what's that cruising speed? Where I get that? And

1025
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 2: that'll be interesting to see whether that bell curve changes

1026
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,440
Speaker 2: over time, right, because I think that's where we're getting

1027
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 2: to as a community of coaches and sports science and

1028
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: sports medicine people, is we're just going can we shift

1029
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: this more this way? Now? They might roll the golf

1030
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 2: ball back a bit, but that's not going to stop

1031
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: that progression. And I think importantly seeking to progress, like

1032
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: we're not all going to go, well, well they've died

1033
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 2: the golf ball back.

1034
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: Let's just let's just stare where we go.

1035
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: Let's just say where we.

1036
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: Are we want to Adaptah.

1037
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 2: And the other thing too, is is if you look

1038
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 2: at you look at you know, through history, like I

1039
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 2: look at Nicholas, when you know when Nicholas came out

1040
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: what an athlete? Oh is unbelievable. Man, it's just so

1041
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: much further than everybody else.

1042
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1043
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 2: So it's not like the game, it's not like all

1044
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: of a sudden we've got you know, better athletes. Is

1045
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 2: not the word that the game has always had great athletes.

1046
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 2: It's just know, we know more about how to create them,

1047
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 2: I think, and there's more of them, and I think

1048
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 2: the equipment, the way the equipment is, it's no doubt

1049
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: it's more forgiving that lends itself to sort of pushing

1050
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 2: that envelope and trying to move that bell curve a

1051
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 2: little bit, but ultimately coming down the stretch, it's the

1052
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 2: guys that can that have got the ultimate control and

1053
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 2: that art and finesse. There's still an art and finesse

1054
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: in the game right in all aspects of the game,

1055
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,279
Speaker 2: and as coaches, we can't forget that because we live

1056
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: in a very data focused, objective, objective world.

1057
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: Lastly, Dennis in twenty twenty three, what do you like

1058
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 1: about golf instruction and the direction it's going and what

1059
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 1: don't you like or what do you just give what

1060
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 1: what are some things that kind of give you pause

1061
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 1: and go h. I don't know about that.

1062
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: It's a really good question. So when I first started

1063
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 2: playing as a junior, no one had even a video camera,

1064
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,919
Speaker 2: like I think I was nineteen when I saw swing

1065
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 2: for the first time. I was horrified by the way

1066
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: because I thought I was a mix of Nicholas Ballistos

1067
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 2: and Watson and found out that I was nothing like that.

1068
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: But I think I think back in the day, the

1069
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:51,919
Speaker 2: best coaches they could look at a ballflight, they could

1070
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 2: look at the way you were moving, and they could

1071
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: explain to you what was causing that that there weren't

1072
00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 2: many there weren't. I don't think there were a whole

1073
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: lot of those type of guys around. I think a

1074
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: lot of them would go, well, we just we'll change

1075
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: your grip a bit, or we'll change your ball position,

1076
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: or we'll get you to turn more, or we'll get

1077
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 2: you to change this. But I think there were some

1078
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 2: really skilled coaches who could without the use of tech,

1079
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: without the assistance of technology, could work backwards and just

1080
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 2: go right, that's what's causing that, you need to do this,

1081
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 2: and the way they went, I think, well, I've certainly

1082
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:28,439
Speaker 2: lived through an error and as a coach where there

1083
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 2: are more and more and more, you know, equipment now

1084
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: that will provide information around what's happened.

1085
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: Data collection, data collection.

1086
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 2: So I see a lot of data collection from a

1087
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 2: lot of different pieces of machinery. But what I'm not sure,

1088
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: but I'm not seeing a lot of This is a

1089
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 2: shocking general generalization, right, But I don't know too many

1090
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 2: people who can gather all of that information to do

1091
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 2: something with it and analyze it. So we live we've

1092
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: lived in it in an era where there's been an

1093
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 2: explosion in technology and assistance. But I'm not but there's

1094
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: not a lot.

1095
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: Of really, really really good.

1096
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: Data analysts who can like process all of that and

1097
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 2: come up with a coaching coaching information, and then you've

1098
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: got to come up with how you're going to express

1099
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: that to the players. So it's if I use my

1100
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: own experience around that just to sort of define that

1101
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 2: not just blanket you know, not just a blanket comment.

1102
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 2: When for example, three D first came out, I was like,

1103
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 2: I've got to be an expert in three D.

1104
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: We've got we've got a twelve cents a well, I

1105
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: bought one as well, and I'm not a biomechanas.

1106
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 2: Whereas now whereas now I go, you know, what all

1107
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:53,959
Speaker 2: I need is someone who can look at that, see

1108
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 2: all of that in their mind and go, right, here's

1109
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 2: what's happening before those different parts. So the onus on

1110
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 2: on my on my part is to make sure that

1111
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: I can have a conversation with someone whose world is

1112
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: looking at that sort of thing, right, and their job

1113
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 2: is to understand that I'm just a golf pro and

1114
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 2: they need to dumb it down a little bit so

1115
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 2: that I understand it. So that was I think I've

1116
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 2: lived through an era where we had launch moditors. Now

1117
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, now I've got to understand launch monitors.

1118
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 2: And then there are people around who can simplify that.

1119
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: So you can get all of that information and come

1120
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 2: up with a really complicated scenario of what's going on,

1121
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: or you can have someone who helps you understand exactly

1122
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 2: what's going on, so you can express something that's complex

1123
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 2: quite simply to that's sorry, turn something that's quite complex

1124
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: into something quite simple, because then you need to be

1125
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 2: able to communicate with a player, because at the end

1126
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 2: of the day, if you hook a player up with

1127
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: three D or you've got a track man running or

1128
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: force plates or whatever. The play's just going to go, well, right,

1129
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: a coach, what are we going to do? So you

1130
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 2: can have all the information coming in, but ultimately you've

1131
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 2: got to come up with there's got to be an

1132
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 2: output from that. And I think for me as a coach,

1133
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 2: that's been the challenge. I think I went as I said,

1134
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:12,600
Speaker 2: I went through the whole thing of going, holy crap,

1135
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 2: I've got to be an expert in this, this and this,

1136
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 2: and I've got to totally understand it all because I've

1137
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 2: got to be able to talk to my player about it.

1138
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: And I think I've got to the stage now when

1139
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 2: there's an emerging technology, i'ld call so the guy I use,

1140
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: Ryan Lumston based here in Adelaide. We'll have a conversation

1141
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: around this new technology coming out and it's like, what

1142
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: do you think is it going to be useful? Is

1143
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 2: it going to be a coaching result from.

1144
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: He's effectively doing. He's the research guy. He's immersed in

1145
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: the details, and what you're trying to say is listen,

1146
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: what do you think about this new concept?

1147
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 2: And he'll go and police formally educated and.

1148
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: Then you said, Okay, now, how can I apply that

1149
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: in the real world? And I think that's the important

1150
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: thing that as golf instruction becomes more data driven and

1151
01:00:55,200 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: more technology driven, you have to be able to do

1152
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: something to affect change with the information that you're getting. Yeah,

1153
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 1: I agree, Otherwise you're just getting him. I've always said that,

1154
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 1: I think we're probably now I think two generations in

1155
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: of just my worry is that we're just creating generations

1156
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: of data collectors and they're just data money and you're like, okay,

1157
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: and they're saying to students, listen, this is I've got

1158
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars worth of technology. This is what

1159
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: you're doing. The student's going okay, I didn't know now what, Yeah,

1160
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: but this is what you're doing. The technology tells me

1161
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 1: this is what you're doing. But the students sitting there

1162
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: going Okay, what the hell do we do now? Because

1163
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: anybody can look at the data and say, hey, you're

1164
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: doing this, you're doing this, you're doing this, this is

1165
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 1: what's happening. Okay, now what and how do I get

1166
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 1: better as a golfer with all of this information?

1167
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: Correct? And that's and if you look at the best

1168
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: teams around, the best players in the world, they're able

1169
01:01:53,960 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 2: to not only gather data, that to effectively analyze data

1170
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 2: and have a discussion and come up with a way forward.

1171
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 2: And typically by the time that's process you digested, processed,

1172
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 2: and spat out, it's a fairly simple piece of information

1173
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 2: for the player. But for example, the fella I spoke

1174
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 2: about before, Ryan Lumsden, he's been working on programs that

1175
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 2: gathered data from from different technologies and he's able to

1176
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: he's getting the stage where he's filtering down the importance

1177
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 2: for each player he's in the matrix. He's yeah, So

1178
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: he's a very clever man. And as I said, that's like,

1179
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: that's something I could but I'm not unashamed to say

1180
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 2: I'm not smart enough to do that. But as if

1181
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: I dial this right back to the to the vis

1182
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,920
Speaker 2: the CEO of the vis A great man by the

1183
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 2: name of doctor Frank Pike, who sadly passed away a

1184
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 2: number of years ago. When I got the assistant coach

1185
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 2: position at the Institute of Sports, so Dale Intwit's head coach,

1186
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 2: I was assistant coach. He came and sat me down

1187
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 2: and he said, look, he said, there's only two things

1188
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: you really need to do in this job. He said,

1189
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: when you get up in the morning, he said, you

1190
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 2: need to think about, Okay, well, what can I do

1191
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 2: for my athletes today to help them get better? And

1192
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 2: he said the second thing I'll say is you've got

1193
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 2: to surround people who You've got to surround yourself with

1194
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 2: people who are smarter than you and leave your ego

1195
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 2: at the door. And they are two things that I've

1196
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 2: that I've tried to do my whole coaching life, and

1197
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 2: I think it served me pretty well. At the time,

1198
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 2: I kind of thought he might have been having a

1199
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 2: bit of crack, a bit of a crack at me, going,

1200
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: you need to surround yourself with people who are smarter

1201
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: than me. Yeah, right, So anyhow, Yeah.

1202
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,439
Speaker 1: Well, I think you're one of you know you, Greg Dave,

1203
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: the guys at TPI, you're some of the smartest people

1204
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: I know. And I don't think you guys get nearly

1205
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: enough credit from people like us because you have fundamentally

1206
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 1: the work that certainly the work that you've done Dennis

1207
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: in junior golf development. When I first was exposed to it,

1208
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 1: it literally changed everything for me. And it is shaped

1209
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: everything that I have done since then, So I can't

1210
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: thank you enough. And it's great to be down here

1211
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: in Australia to get a chance to spend some time

1212
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 1: with you. And we could literally do five hours of

1213
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: this and just go straight down the rabbit hole. We'll

1214
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: get together again soon and do it again. But congrats

1215
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: on all your success and keep doing what you're doing,

1216
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: because you are one of the good ones, and you're

1217
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: one of the best in the world at.

1218
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 2: What you do. I will say this justin is just

1219
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: as a final comment or just a final comment, is

1220
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 2: I've been extremely fortunate in my coaching life to have

1221
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: come across some people who have been just amazing mentors.

1222
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 2: Is just like you can. I think there's a certain

1223
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 2: amount of coaching that you dig out of the ground

1224
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 2: through trial and error. And I've been extremely fortunate from

1225
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: the moment I started coaching, not only to have great

1226
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,760
Speaker 2: mentors from all around the world, but great mentors who

1227
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 2: are happy to share and part of that mentoring being

1228
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 2: challenged by people around the way you think too, right,

1229
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 2: And I've been extremely fortunate, and i'd count to you

1230
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 2: amongst those people, Claude, and thanks very much for inviting

1231
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 2: me to speak, has been a's been terrific.

1232
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we I'll see you again soon, all right, buddy.

1233
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,560
Speaker 1: So what a cool opportunity I had to get to

1234
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: spend some time with Dennis. I hope everybody got a

1235
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: lot out of that. Listen, the way we teach junior

1236
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: golfers today versus the way that they were taught, you know, fifteen, twenty,

1237
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: even thirty years ago, is so dramatically different. And when

1238
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: I first met Dennis and I saw the work that

1239
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: he was doing with Greg and Dave at TPI and

1240
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: went to their junior golf certifications. I think the first

1241
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 1: one I went to was in Madrid in probably two

1242
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: thousand and maybe nine, maybe I think two thousand and nine,

1243
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: twenty ten. And everybody that works with me, that works

1244
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: for me, has all gone through the TPI Junior Development series.

1245
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: We have one hundred and eighty kids in our junior

1246
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: program in Dubai and out of Dubai, small little golf market,

1247
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: but in the last ten eleven years, I think we've

1248
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: sent thirty kids to play college golf in the United States.

1249
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: Dubai is a big, big city on the world stage,

1250
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,680
Speaker 1: but as a golf market is a very small small

1251
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: golf market, so for us to find over thirty kids,

1252
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: some of have gone on to play for University of Florida,

1253
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: Ohio State, some excuse me, Oklahoma State, some big, big

1254
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: programs and we're really proud of that. And it wouldn't

1255
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: be if it wasn't for the work that Dennis has

1256
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 1: done in junior golf development. Certainly wouldn't have been able

1257
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: to do the stuff we did. So thanks for Dennis

1258
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: to talking to us and to me, it was a

1259
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: really really good one junior golf development. If you haven't

1260
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 1: thought about it in the way that Dennis talked about it,

1261
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 1: you definitely should. Can't thank everybody enough for listening, Rate, review,

1262
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 1: subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You guys know the

1263
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 1: drill son of a butch comes to you every Wednesday.

1264
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 1: We will see you next week.