WEBVTT - Should Your Dog Be on Peptides?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>News.

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<v Speaker 1>Sam Chow lives in a penthouse apartment in Manhattan with

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<v Speaker 1>his Norwich Terriers. Four of them. There's the oldest in

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<v Speaker 1>the group, Patriot.

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<v Speaker 2>Patriot is 12 years old.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there's Petunia.

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<v Speaker 2>The original alpha in the family is Petunia. She's basically

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<v Speaker 2>asking you to pet her.

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<v Speaker 1>Paddington, the COVID baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Paddington, you want me to carry you? Come.

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<v Speaker 1>And Patsy, the youngest.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we have Patsy challenging Petunia for the alpha role.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's everyday comedy. You can see that already.

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<v Speaker 1>Sam loves his dogs more than anything.

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<v Speaker 2>For me, it's my first children, you know, and they

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<v Speaker 2>give me so much stability and.

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<v Speaker 1>And like many pet lovers, he says keeping his dogs

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<v Speaker 1>healthy is a top priority.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm known as their butler. So I would stack their

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<v Speaker 2>food with, they have blueberries, alternate day they have salmon rolls,

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<v Speaker 2>they have eggs, they have sweet tomato, turmeric, they have

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<v Speaker 2>broccoli pretty much every single day.

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<v Speaker 1>But Sam has taken pet care farther than most.

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<v Speaker 2>They go on to their red light therapy several times

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<v Speaker 2>a day. And the reason why, again, is inflammation, boosting circulation.

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<v Speaker 1>Red light therapy beds, collagen, peptide supplements.

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<v Speaker 2>The ingredient BioPro Plus is a human peptide therapy based

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<v Speaker 2>on an ingredient called wild deer antler. So I take

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<v Speaker 2>a shot of that every morning. They have the same

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<v Speaker 2>ingredient in their chew in a dog format.

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<v Speaker 1>And for his two oldest dogs, a longevity drug called rapamycin.

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<v Speaker 2>When I got rapamycin for Patriot, prior to that, I

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<v Speaker 2>can tell you he would be sleeping the whole day.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't have much energy level. He's lethargic. And it works.

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<v Speaker 2>He is like a puppy now. You notice his energy level.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's something I noticed that it just changed the

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<v Speaker 2>way he's well-being.

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<v Speaker 1>Pet owners like Sam are taking a page from the

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<v Speaker 1>human wellness industrial complex and applying it to their petunias

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<v Speaker 1>and paddingtons. Bloomberg reporter Anika Anampudi says it's part of

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<v Speaker 1>a growing trend that's helped drive a predicted $ 165 billion

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<v Speaker 1>in U.S. pet spending this year.

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<v Speaker 3>With the rise of like these wellness centers and peptides

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<v Speaker 3>and all these sort of like biohackers that are maybe

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<v Speaker 3>turning to more unconventional treatments to extend their lifespans. And

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<v Speaker 3>it's really interesting how it's almost trickled down to pets.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's raised questions about the treatment's efficacy and their

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<v Speaker 1>value to consumers who just want the best for their

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<v Speaker 1>furry friends.

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<v Speaker 2>Petunia, what are you licking?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sarah Holder, and this is The Big Take from

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News. Today on the show, can your dog live forever?

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<v Speaker 1>We looked at the trend of pet owners trying everything

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<v Speaker 1>from peptide injections to pills. to extend the life and

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<v Speaker 1>wellness of their pets. Sam Chow's apartment is the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of place where you walk in and immediately go, wow.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a fireplace, big windows, a staircase. But the real

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<v Speaker 1>reason Sam moved there was because of his dogs.

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<v Speaker 2>It's quiet, the streets are clean, and I just wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to ensure that I have more room for the dogs.

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<v Speaker 1>Sam's dog's influence is everywhere. Above the mantle, there are

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<v Speaker 1>four miniatures of his dogs, handmade out of felt by

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<v Speaker 1>an artist from England. And on the table near the door,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a framed photo of Sam's first Norwich terrier, Thatcher,

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<v Speaker 1>who lived to 16 years old, sitting with Sam's late husband.

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<v Speaker 2>I lost my husband. through stage four lung cancer. So

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<v Speaker 2>for me, it was a little bit of a grounding

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<v Speaker 2>for me to have the continuity of the same breed

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<v Speaker 2>that we like. So we got Patriot. And Patriot was

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<v Speaker 2>with us the whole entire time. And I noticed that

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<v Speaker 2>maybe he's depressed. So we got Petunia. And then we

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<v Speaker 2>have COVID. So we got a third one. And after

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<v Speaker 2>the third one, we said, you know what? Might as

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<v Speaker 2>well just get a fourth one.

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<v Speaker 1>Outside his life as a dog owner, Sam is a

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<v Speaker 1>beauty strategist. which means he's deeply tapped into the latest

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<v Speaker 1>wellness trends.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm sorry to say that we all take collagen,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in the beauty world, everyone's taking collagen.

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<v Speaker 1>So you and your dogs all take the same collagen?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but one for human version, mine's liquid version, and

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<v Speaker 2>theirs is a powder version as well.

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<v Speaker 1>And take it from my eyewitness testimony, Sam has amazing skin.

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<v Speaker 1>He says he thinks of his own self-care and his

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<v Speaker 1>pet's wellness as linked.

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<v Speaker 2>Sam is just one of a handful of pet owners

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<v Speaker 2>that Bloomberg's Anika and Amputi spoke to.

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<v Speaker 1>About their approach to improving their animals' health and extending

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<v Speaker 1>their lifespans.

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<v Speaker 3>There was a source that I spoke to that, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>hires an assistant to help him and his wife, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>take care of his aging dogs, like take the dogs

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<v Speaker 3>to red light therapy, water therapy, behavioral therapy, all sorts

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<v Speaker 3>of things to sort of like help them recover from

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<v Speaker 3>various illnesses, but then also just like to prevent things

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<v Speaker 3>down the line. We also have statistics on the pet

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<v Speaker 3>supplement market, which is also a booming industry. The figure

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<v Speaker 3>is $ 2. 9 billion. It's just growing. I mean, we also

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<v Speaker 3>looked at the number of dog and cat owners who

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<v Speaker 3>have been giving their dogs and cats supplements, and the

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<v Speaker 3>numbers have surged in the last six years or so.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe in cats, it's like 70% growth, and in

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<v Speaker 3>dogs it's 56%.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there's rapamycin, which has become a go-to in the

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<v Speaker 1>pet longevity space. It's been used by humans for decades

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<v Speaker 1>to prevent kidney transplant rejection. Studies on mice who've been

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<v Speaker 1>given small doses have shown a range of benefits, like

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<v Speaker 1>improved heart health. It's conditionally approved for use on cats

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<v Speaker 1>with heart conditions. And it's currently in clinical trials on canines.

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<v Speaker 1>But one of the principal investigators told us no data

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<v Speaker 1>will be available until 2028. One pet owner told Annika

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<v Speaker 1>that time is a big factor in deciding what to

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<v Speaker 1>give his pets.

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<v Speaker 3>He's not a biohacker himself. He doesn't take, you know, rapamycin.

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<v Speaker 3>He doesn't do any longevity treatments. But he was like,

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<v Speaker 3>I've got 80 years to live my life. I've got

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<v Speaker 3>80 years to wait out and see if there's science,

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<v Speaker 3>maybe science. Decades down the line, that could extend my lifespan.

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<v Speaker 3>But my dogs don't have that time. They've got maybe

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<v Speaker 3>like 10 or 15 years. And so I'm willing to

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<v Speaker 3>try anything to just let them live like happier and

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<v Speaker 3>longer lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Humans have always been willing to spend on their pets.

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<v Speaker 1>But Annika says the pandemic marked an inflection point. More

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<v Speaker 1>people were getting pets. And more people started getting into

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<v Speaker 1>pet wellness.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think part of it is these pet owners

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<v Speaker 3>believing that, you know, veterinary care might be a bit more, like,

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<v Speaker 3>reactive than they had been hoping. And they're looking for,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, more preventative measures, something that they can do at,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the middle of a dog's life as opposed to,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, when the dog gets cancer or when the

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<v Speaker 3>conditions start piling up.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a whole industry that's cropped up to serve these

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of proactive pet owners. There are smaller players like

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<v Speaker 1>the startup Loyal Animal Health, which is studying three drugs

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<v Speaker 1>targeted towards extending pets' lifespans. There are also industry behemoths

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<v Speaker 1>like Alonco Animal Health, which used to be a subsidiary

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<v Speaker 1>of the pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly. The company has pioneered

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<v Speaker 1>work on pet vaccines, flea prevention, and treatments for cat diabetes.

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<v Speaker 3>And Ilanko has actually dedicated a staff of about 50

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<v Speaker 3>employees specifically for the purposes of researching pet longevity, extending lifespans, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>When Anika's colleague Anna Edney visited Ilanko's Indianapolis headquarters, the

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<v Speaker 1>CEO had brought his black lab, named Lily, to the office.

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<v Speaker 1>That's like Eli Lily. The company wouldn't say how much

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<v Speaker 1>they're spending on longevity research specifically. But last year, it

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<v Speaker 1>did spend nearly $ 370 million total on research and development.

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<v Speaker 3>It just shows how, you know, small startups like Loyal

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<v Speaker 3>have been investing in this, but also some of the

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<v Speaker 3>biggest companies in the veterinary space are also thinking about

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<v Speaker 3>how do we extend lifespans for pets.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Eli Lilly, to me, is very famous for

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<v Speaker 1>GLP-1s in humans. I'm wondering, are there GLP-1s for dogs?

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<v Speaker 3>Not yet, or not in a way that... veterinarians would recommend.

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<v Speaker 3>There are some people that we spoke to who were

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<v Speaker 3>giving peptides off-label to their animals, but obviously that was

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<v Speaker 3>more of, you know, a DIY, sort of like people,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, choosing to see how these substances or chemicals

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<v Speaker 3>might work in their animals. And they've seen, anecdotally, they've

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<v Speaker 3>seen results. But I would say on the whole, veterinarians

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<v Speaker 3>and the industry is still sort of waiting and seeing how,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, GLP-1s or peptides work out.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot the industry still doesn't know for sure

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<v Speaker 1>about some of these longevity treatments for pets. how effective

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<v Speaker 1>they are, how safe they are, and whether they're worth

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<v Speaker 1>the cost. Coming up, how pet owners are making these calls.

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<v Speaker 1>When Sam Chow started giving rapamycin to his oldest dog, Patriot,

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<v Speaker 1>he says he noticed a new pep in Patriot's step.

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<v Speaker 1>But the drug is still being studied. And Bloomberg's Anika

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<v Speaker 1>Anampudi says, as of now, there are limitations on how

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<v Speaker 1>it can be produced and marketed for animals.

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<v Speaker 3>Rapid-myosin is a pill that is used in humans. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been used in humans for like a quarter of a

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<v Speaker 3>century to help the organ transplant process. This is a

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<v Speaker 3>pill that has then been co-opted by the human biohacking industry,

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<v Speaker 3>and some people take it to extend their own lifespans.

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<v Speaker 3>This has now trickled down to pets. And we have

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<v Speaker 3>people giving their pets rapamycin.

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<v Speaker 1>Animal medications are regulated by the Food and Drug Administration's

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<v Speaker 1>Center for Veterinary Medicine. And rapamycin isn't FDA-approved for pet longevity.

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<v Speaker 1>The Department of Health and Human Services told us it

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<v Speaker 1>isn't approved for human longevity either. Canine clinical trials for

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<v Speaker 1>the drug are underway. But in the meantime, vets are

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to prescribe it off-label for some animals' conditions. Sam

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<v Speaker 1>gets rapamycin through a telehealth company called Dutch, which connects

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<v Speaker 1>pet owners with vets who prescribe the treatment virtually. Anika

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to another doctor, who brands himself as the longevity vet.

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<v Speaker 3>His name is Dr. Kevin Thoman.

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<v Speaker 1>Dr.

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<v Speaker 3>Thoman has around 3,000 clients in his practice, and he's

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<v Speaker 3>somebody who prescribes rapamycin in an off-label capacity, basically, for

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<v Speaker 3>senior or aging dogs and cats.

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<v Speaker 1>Meeting virtually with Dr. Thoman to get a personalized lifespan

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<v Speaker 1>improvement plan can run a pet owner $ 275, 000. For on-demand meetings,

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<v Speaker 1>he charges $ 475 a month. You spoke to veterinarians and

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<v Speaker 1>you spoke to experts about some of the risk factors

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<v Speaker 1>of using rapamycin to help dogs and cats extend their lifespan.

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<v Speaker 1>What did they find?

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<v Speaker 3>One of the vets that we spoke to said that

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<v Speaker 3>she hasn't really seen any side effects from rapamycin, but

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<v Speaker 3>she hasn't also yet seen side conclusive proof that it

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<v Speaker 3>does extend lifespans. They also cautioned the fact that you

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<v Speaker 3>should talk to a veterinarian while you are dosing animals

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<v Speaker 3>with any sort of medication. Be mindful of dosing requirements

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<v Speaker 3>because humans are much bigger than animals and so maybe

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<v Speaker 3>they would require a different kind of dosing. But, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>specifically with rapamycin, it's still too early to tell whether

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<v Speaker 3>there are going to be any significant effects. Obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the clinical trial that I spoke about earlier hasn't been

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<v Speaker 3>completed yet.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the principal investigators of the double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled

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<v Speaker 1>trial told us the study has two purposes, determining whether

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<v Speaker 1>rapamycin increases the lifespan of dogs or improves the health.

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<v Speaker 1>of aging docs.

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<v Speaker 3>There's also another startup called Loyal Animal Health, which is

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<v Speaker 3>testing three drugs specifically for the purpose of extending lifespan.

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<v Speaker 3>So this is not rapamycin. This is like something that

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<v Speaker 3>they had designed themselves. And those results haven't been out yet.

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<v Speaker 3>I think on the whole, veterinarians are probably just waiting

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<v Speaker 3>for maybe, you know, more definitive science to come out

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<v Speaker 3>before they start recommending it more widely.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so interesting because obviously people for a long time

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<v Speaker 1>have thought of pets as children. Like they have these

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<v Speaker 1>really intense bonds with their pets. But does this mean

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<v Speaker 1>that people are basically experimenting on their pets?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think some of the

0:14:25.190 --> 0:14:27.810
<v Speaker 3>pet owners I spoke to said, where like, you know,

0:14:27.830 --> 0:14:31.570
<v Speaker 3>these like substances, like these medications, they get tested on

0:14:31.630 --> 0:14:35.130
<v Speaker 3>animals anyway, you know, early in the drug development process,

0:14:35.190 --> 0:14:38.750
<v Speaker 3>like they're safe in mice. And so why wouldn't they

0:14:38.790 --> 0:14:41.670
<v Speaker 3>be safe in my dog or my cat? I think

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.180
<v Speaker 3>the way that they think about it also is that

0:14:44.740 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 3>I have like 80 years to live a happy and

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.340
<v Speaker 3>fulfilled life, but my dog might only have what like

0:14:53.070 --> 0:14:55.890
<v Speaker 3>And are those the timescales that we're talking about here?

0:14:55.930 --> 0:14:58.910
<v Speaker 3>Like when we talk about expanding pet longevity, is it

0:14:59.050 --> 0:15:01.290
<v Speaker 3>expanding their lifespan by six months, one year or 10 years,

0:15:01.290 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 3>20 years? The people that I spoke to, they don't

0:15:14.820 --> 0:15:18.400
<v Speaker 3>necessarily think about it in terms of like years per se.

0:15:18.420 --> 0:15:20.580
<v Speaker 3>They think about it in terms of like good years.

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 3>They don't want a dog that, you know, might be

0:15:26.020 --> 0:15:28.479
<v Speaker 3>a bit older and like have, you know, maybe bone

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.570
<v Speaker 3>issues or heart issues and just be living to like,

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.430
<v Speaker 3>you know, 15, 16 years old.

0:15:35.890 --> 0:15:41.700
<v Speaker 2>I am willing to take calculated risks for patriots. Because

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I just want him to be better and to be,

0:15:43.860 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, to be healthier.

0:15:46.420 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Sam views participating in the burgeoning world of pet wellness

0:15:49.940 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 1>as a calculated risk worth taking. He stresses he does

0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 1>it all under a vet's supervision. But there was another

0:15:57.420 --> 0:16:00.770
<v Speaker 1>factor I wanted to ask him about. How much would

0:16:00.810 --> 0:16:04.630
<v Speaker 1>you say you're paying for all of these treatments overall?

0:16:05.250 --> 0:16:08.609
<v Speaker 2>All in all, rapamycin, supplements, and everything else that goes

0:16:08.690 --> 0:16:12.500
<v Speaker 2>in there, I would say around... Gosh, I'm having a

0:16:12.540 --> 0:16:15.780
<v Speaker 2>tough time giving you the number. I think we're quite

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.340
<v Speaker 2>close to around 8,000 a year.

0:16:19.660 --> 0:16:21.540
<v Speaker 1>Why was that difficult to say?

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:24.350
<v Speaker 2>I think especially with the world that we are living

0:16:24.470 --> 0:16:27.250
<v Speaker 2>in now, I just really want to be sensitive because

0:16:28.030 --> 0:16:31.140
<v Speaker 2>There are so many families out there that are having

0:16:31.180 --> 0:16:35.180
<v Speaker 2>a tough time with the economy. And for me, I

0:16:35.220 --> 0:16:38.140
<v Speaker 2>just really don't want people to think that I am

0:16:38.300 --> 0:16:43.400
<v Speaker 2>spoiling my dogs. I think one clarification to a lot

0:16:43.420 --> 0:16:46.260
<v Speaker 2>of people that they are not my dogs. They are

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 2>my children. So as you, as a human person... volunteering

0:16:52.010 --> 0:16:55.710
<v Speaker 2>to spend money on their ballet classes or their football

0:16:55.750 --> 0:16:58.950
<v Speaker 2>game or their play date or their vacation to Cancun

0:16:59.050 --> 0:17:03.310
<v Speaker 2>or whatever. We all have choices and my choices is

0:17:03.350 --> 0:17:06.429
<v Speaker 2>to spend the money on their longevity.

0:17:07.570 --> 0:17:11.090
<v Speaker 1>How does it feel thinking about your pets getting older.

0:17:10.990 --> 0:17:12.270
<v Speaker 3>And your dogs getting older?

0:17:12.330 --> 0:17:15.910
<v Speaker 2>I try not to think about that. Recently I received

0:17:16.050 --> 0:17:23.340
<v Speaker 2>an email from a company that preserves your pets in

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:28.030
<v Speaker 2>a cryo chamber until there's future technology to unpreserve and

0:17:28.070 --> 0:17:31.370
<v Speaker 2>make that whole summer case i'm not there yet you

0:17:31.390 --> 0:17:33.989
<v Speaker 2>know to be honest were you intrigued a little bit

0:17:34.109 --> 0:17:37.250
<v Speaker 2>i was intrigued because i'm always curious for technology and

0:17:37.310 --> 0:17:40.250
<v Speaker 2>innovations you know i was intrigued so well i'm sure

0:17:40.270 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 2>there's a human version and they are a human version

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.330
<v Speaker 2>as well but to be honest it's like I just

0:17:45.369 --> 0:17:48.330
<v Speaker 2>want to have better years and better moments with them.

0:17:48.630 --> 0:17:50.510
<v Speaker 2>And I think it's something that we do with humans

0:17:50.590 --> 0:17:54.070
<v Speaker 2>as well. And I think that's the philosophy I am

0:17:54.170 --> 0:17:56.560
<v Speaker 2>taking with my pet, is I just want to have

0:17:56.619 --> 0:18:00.080
<v Speaker 2>better years with them and also better quality years.

0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.730
<v Speaker 1>This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

0:18:10.210 --> 0:18:13.190
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0:18:13.869 --> 0:18:17.510
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0:18:28.060 --> 0:18:32.520
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0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.439
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