Speaker 1: And welcome in toun that episode of Tiger Territory, part
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory. Now we're at Detroit Tigers Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Karen Steckley with me as always as a man
Speaker 1: who is happy to not have to answer the question anymore. Hey,
Speaker 1: do you catch that World Cup match? Here's Cody Savina.
Speaker 1: How we're doing.
Speaker 2: You're right, it's time to watch some baseball people. We're
Speaker 2: done with the little soccer tournament. We can lock in
Speaker 2: on the big leagues. The trade deadline is coming up.
Speaker 2: We've had a really exciting Monday for the Tigers, not
Speaker 2: such an exciting Tuesday. That's all right, Well, we kind
Speaker 2: of have a lot to talk about. There's kind of
Speaker 2: a lot going on.
Speaker 1: Yep. So just in the interest of full disclosure, we
Speaker 1: are recording this before the conclusion of Tuesday's game. I
Speaker 1: hope you guys will forgive us as we as we
Speaker 1: get going here. I just got a text with my
Speaker 1: wife actually the.
Speaker 2: Full breakdown of Zach McKinstry's pitching performance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Dingler just hit a home run, So wife
Speaker 1: just texted me looking out for me that little update there.
Speaker 1: So right now it is eleven to two, so if
Speaker 1: this comeback happens, we'll come back on here and then
Speaker 1: we'll adjust everything we have to say. But like you said, Cody,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of storylines big and small, and and
Speaker 1: to be honest, I kind of want to start with
Speaker 1: a larger thought process here that I had coming into
Speaker 1: this game, and I thought this could go one way
Speaker 1: or another, and it went like pretty far in the
Speaker 1: direction I did not anticipate, which was, look, you have
Speaker 1: this awesome win on Monday, and then you have your
Speaker 1: big free agent acquisition starting pitcher from Bervaldez coming on
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. It's like, wouldn't it be great for him
Speaker 1: to kind of come in here when you a series
Speaker 1: on the road against a team that's like what twelve fourteen,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, games above five hundred, Like this would
Speaker 1: be great. It's not great, Cody. In case you guys
Speaker 1: missed it, Robert did not make it out of the
Speaker 1: first ending allowed five hits, six earned runs. He had
Speaker 1: two walks in one k and basically he was just
Speaker 1: kind of getting hit all around the yard and and look,
Speaker 1: but you know, much much empathy and sympathy for what
Speaker 1: he you know, just coming off the bereavement list, you know,
Speaker 1: dealing with the death of his grandmother. Obviously, all the
Speaker 1: thoughts and prayers to him and his family, but we're
Speaker 1: just going to keep it to the baseball part of this.
Speaker 1: I had a a thought, Cody. I was like, you know, look,
Speaker 1: the Tigers, obviously the goal is the playoffs, and given
Speaker 1: where they've been the season, the goal is not to
Speaker 1: skip the wildcard round. The wildcard round is coming if
Speaker 1: you if you make the postseason, so that's the best
Speaker 1: of three. So who's your three? That was the question
Speaker 1: that was kind of like like percolating through the mind
Speaker 1: a little bit because it's like, Okay, you have school
Speaker 1: bull or you don't, and we can kind of talk
Speaker 1: about that a little bit later. You have school where
Speaker 1: you don't. That's one Moultain feels pretty safe. Mys what
Speaker 1: has definitely pinched the like to be in that rotation.
Speaker 1: But the injury thing. As of now he's on the
Speaker 1: il so hopefully everything's okay with him. Uh from Bert
Speaker 1: like should be like a no discussion boom, that's that's
Speaker 1: in there. Unfortunately today and we saw I would probably
Speaker 1: wager the worst version. Unfortunately today that just in my
Speaker 1: mind does not feel like a slam dunk.
Speaker 2: Is that fair?
Speaker 1: Is that fair to me to kind of like percolate
Speaker 1: that through my mind a little bit?
Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly an interesting thought. And of course to
Speaker 2: get to this situation a lot would have to go right.
Speaker 2: They would have to keep everybody, everyone would have to
Speaker 2: stay healthy. But it's kind of an interesting thought exercise, because, Yeah,
Speaker 2: if I was just picking who are the three best
Speaker 2: pictures right now from Bervaldez, is not one of them.
Speaker 2: His era went up nearly a half run, what four
Speaker 2: four nine after the last outing, and beyond that, it's
Speaker 2: this is at least the third time he has come
Speaker 2: out this season and basically been completely useless. He gave
Speaker 2: up eight earned runs on April eighth. You give up
Speaker 2: seven earned runs on May fifth, That was the ejection game.
Speaker 2: He came out here six earned runs, didn't even finish
Speaker 2: an inning. Froumber has kind of been prone to outings
Speaker 2: like these throughout his career, but it's happened three times
Speaker 2: in just over half a season. He's had a couple
Speaker 2: other outings that weren't great. Maybe that speaks to actually
Speaker 2: the fact he's a really good pitcher, because he's been
Speaker 2: just terrible several times, and his era still has a
Speaker 2: four instead of a five or six in front of it,
Speaker 2: so he's capable of being good. He has playoff experience.
Speaker 2: He's maybe about thirty six and a half million dollars.
Speaker 2: I think as a result of that, realistically, the Tigers
Speaker 2: would probably start from Rivaldez in a playoff game, and
Speaker 2: they'd probably yank around and find a different way to
Speaker 2: use Troy Melton or even Casey Mize or even cater Montero,
Speaker 2: because that's just how these things tend to go. Then
Speaker 2: you could argue Fromber's experience pitching in the playoffs in
Speaker 2: the World Series might actually hold some weight there in
Speaker 2: terms of just being able to manage the environment, the emotions.
Speaker 2: He's been there, he's done it. However, it's just disappointing
Speaker 2: when this guy comes here to that much acclaim, when
Speaker 2: he's getting paid that much money, and he just hasn't
Speaker 2: quite performed up to that standard on a consistent basis.
Speaker 2: I think it is totally fair to be asking the
Speaker 2: question you're asking right now, Kieran.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you think that, because the other thing
Speaker 1: that I like ask myself, like, is it fair to
Speaker 1: think X is like is it fair to over empathize,
Speaker 1: over emphasize, over critique, like really notice some like the
Speaker 1: little things with fromber And I've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: especially after the ejection game, where it's like, look, dude,
Speaker 1: like it like if you want to be the guy,
Speaker 1: which that money dictates, you are the guy, whether or
Speaker 1: not schools on this roster or not. And at that
Speaker 1: time he was hurt, right, It's like you have to
Speaker 1: carry yourself a certain way in my opinion, like maybe
Speaker 1: not everybody agrees with me, but you got to carry
Speaker 1: yourself a certain way if you're gonna carry that price
Speaker 1: tag and you're gonna have that sort of a claim
Speaker 1: like that's what the money's for, as as they say
Speaker 1: in mad Men. And today was another example of just
Speaker 1: bad body language. You know, a ground ball goes up
Speaker 1: the middle, like you know, look, it's a groundball. Your
Speaker 1: job in that situation is a good groundball. So I
Speaker 1: understand like potentially being frustrated, but you have the whole
Speaker 1: like kind of raise your hands and you know, like
Speaker 1: kind of emotion here that kind of it's not showing
Speaker 1: anybody up per se, but it's not calm and cool
Speaker 1: and and and in these situations, especially in the first ending,
Speaker 1: especially on the road, especially when everything everyone's looking to you.
Speaker 1: I want guys that look like they can like they're
Speaker 1: the same no matter what. And there's and there's a
Speaker 1: difference between demonstrative and forceful. Like I think we could
Speaker 1: say Schooble is a forceful reactionary, but like fromber a
Speaker 1: lot of times, is a kind of head up, sigh
Speaker 1: like reactionary. And I just don't think that does a
Speaker 1: lot of good. And we saw multiple examples of that
Speaker 1: today when we just didn't have his stuff, and so
Speaker 1: that those kind of things concerned me overall as well.
Speaker 1: And again I repeat myself, this is why Houston wasn't
Speaker 1: exactly like having candlelight vigils when he like signed with
Speaker 1: another team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just say that's that's part of the package.
Speaker 2: The Tigers knew what they were getting when when they
Speaker 2: signed him. Again, like starting the more we see it
Speaker 2: starts to make sense why maybe other teams weren't willing
Speaker 2: to give him that five plus year deal he initially wanted,
Speaker 2: probably initially thought he was gonna get, probably want a
Speaker 2: ship performance basis deserved by the way he had pitched.
Speaker 2: It's kind of things like that that have followed him
Speaker 2: out throughout his career. You know, you kind of hear, well,
Speaker 2: he's gotten better, he's gotten better at managing his emotions
Speaker 2: and bouncing back, and it's like, well, only for so
Speaker 2: long when things are going badly, he does still have
Speaker 2: a tendency to kind of let the emotions, the body
Speaker 2: language creep in. He's not the only guy, like, like,
Speaker 2: there are others throughout the league, even on this team
Speaker 2: who can kind of struggle with that. But I think
Speaker 2: just subjectively, it's it's fair to say that's not the
Speaker 2: most desirable trait. That's not the ideal trait in what
Speaker 2: you want to see from your guy on the mount.
Speaker 1: And again, like you're throwing guys like Montero who don't
Speaker 1: have near the experience that he does. I feel like
Speaker 1: Montero like always looks locked in, Like sometimes with Valdez
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily always appear that he's locked in, because
Speaker 1: he does kind of let those spurts out. And the
Speaker 1: reason like, and I struggle even bringing this up because
Speaker 1: I am a believer in like accepting people and accepting
Speaker 1: like players and coaches and everybody like as they are.
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to like double punish them for
Speaker 1: just doing what they usually do. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: So like I struggle bringing that up, but like when
Speaker 1: on a game like today, and what everything's crucial, right,
Speaker 1: We've talked about this a lot on a game like today,
Speaker 1: like you just needed to put your best foot forward
Speaker 1: and if it wasn't your stuff, it had to be
Speaker 1: something else and and and neither one was the case here,
Speaker 1: and you end up you know, ty Madden just come
Speaker 1: just gets called up, and yeah bring in ty Madden
Speaker 1: the first endy and that you know, you know, yet
Speaker 1: no days off here for a bit, Cody, Like that
Speaker 1: throws everything off into you know, contingency plan territory there.
Speaker 1: So just disappoint overall from fromber And again, like you're right,
Speaker 1: he probably is going to start a playoff game should
Speaker 1: they get there. But like as of right now, there's
Speaker 1: been too many instances of of lack of feel that
Speaker 1: will give fans and even you know, coaches and players,
Speaker 1: I'm sure confidence overall should that situation presents present itself.
Speaker 1: All right, we are going to get to a quick
Speaker 1: break and then afterward we're gonna talk some tek Schooble
Speaker 1: Cody just wrote a story at Tererek, and of course
Speaker 1: you know he's the man of the hour, of the week,
Speaker 1: of the next couple of weeks in Major League Baseball.
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, So there's two things regarding
Speaker 1: Trek Schouble that are gonna dominate the headlines here for
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks. There's Terrek Schouoble the Man,
Speaker 1: and then there's Terrek Schooble the Plan. And so Cody,
Speaker 1: you wrote about Trek Schoolble the Man as somebody who
Speaker 1: is just kind of been at the forefront of I
Speaker 1: don't know, everything extracurricular that you don't necessarily like want
Speaker 1: to talk about on a near daily basis or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know, like like, look, he's gonna it's all gonna
Speaker 1: be worth it for him, because no matter who the
Speaker 1: team is, he's gonna be, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: richest players in the history of Major League Baseball. So
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to paint like wax poetic that he's
Speaker 1: some victim here, but it is a again, like extracurricular uh,
Speaker 1: not advantageous to the day to day being of a
Speaker 1: baseball player and having to deal with everything from injury
Speaker 1: from Team USA, from arbitration, from rehab to just kind
Speaker 1: of getting back right dealing with the trade rumors and
Speaker 1: then what you know, the uncertain future. You've seen him
Speaker 1: on a daily basis. You've talked to him about this, like,
Speaker 1: how is he kind of how is he being? I
Speaker 1: guess is the way to kind of ask his question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm glad that the story finally running and
Speaker 2: that we're finally talking about it. I think for as
Speaker 2: much as you know, we do the speculation thing too,
Speaker 2: when we talk about the trade deadline. Like in my
Speaker 2: actual job as a writer, one of the things that
Speaker 2: really fascinates me is kind of chronicling fame and attention
Speaker 2: and money and pressure and criticism and what that does
Speaker 2: to people. I've seen it a lot. I haven't necessarily
Speaker 2: covered many people as famous as Trek Scooble in my
Speaker 2: time around the Tigers, but I'd seen another sports before,
Speaker 2: and it's a very fascinating, quite honestly, very modern thing,
Speaker 2: especially in the social media age. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2: There was a time where athletes were revered the greatest
Speaker 2: athletes where they were just revered figures, and I feel like,
Speaker 2: now there's a thing where you achieve a certain level
Speaker 2: of success and then people inevitably just start to dislike you.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a weird thing. And Schoolbol I think,
Speaker 2: has experienced a lot of this over the past couple
Speaker 2: of years, and especially over the past six months. If
Speaker 2: you think about it, from off season trade rumors to arbitration,
Speaker 2: to the WBC back and forth drama, to getting hurt,
Speaker 2: to the surgery to now back at the center of
Speaker 2: trade rumors. He has been the main character kind of
Speaker 2: in the twenty twenty six baseball season, and that might
Speaker 2: just be getting started. Seeing how Schooble's handled kind of
Speaker 2: a rise from a ninth round pick, a guy with
Speaker 2: one d one offer, I think has been very fascinating,
Speaker 2: and I've always wondered if that for a little bit
Speaker 2: of why he is kind of handled the public side
Speaker 2: of things, I would say as well has as he has,
Speaker 2: He's become very friendly. He's been incredibly accessible. Where a
Speaker 2: lot of guys can kind of close off, become very guarded.
Speaker 2: S Google has been the opposite. He's kind of opened
Speaker 2: up this year. You could argue he hasn't necessarily done
Speaker 2: himself any favors simply by being out there and talking.
Speaker 2: He's talked to himself, you know, think about the WBC,
Speaker 2: the back and forth. Maybe if he just would have
Speaker 2: not said anything, that wouldn't have been a thing. As
Speaker 2: a media member, I obviously appreciate it when guys are
Speaker 2: open and when guys are honest and willing to talk.
Speaker 2: But you know, I sat down with Errek a while
Speaker 2: back and I kind of just asked him, what is
Speaker 2: it like when everything you do becomes a story? How
Speaker 2: does that impact you? And it seems to me like
Speaker 2: Trek has a pretty good head about it. He gets it,
Speaker 2: he understands it. He seems to do a decent job
Speaker 2: of blocking out the noise. But I think he's very
Speaker 2: much aware of what's being said, what's going on. He
Speaker 2: had some quotes about that in the story. Interestingly enough, though,
Speaker 2: like Terrek's at this point where he can't even explain
Speaker 2: like the real human side of what he's been through
Speaker 2: without probably generating some other headlines. I'm sure a lot
Speaker 2: of people will latch onto a quote where he says,
Speaker 2: if I could go back, I probably should have gotten
Speaker 2: MRI in January and hammered it out to where I
Speaker 2: was done with it in the off season. He's talking
Speaker 2: about the loose body in his arm, but there were
Speaker 2: other factors in play. I was going through arbitration, the
Speaker 2: decision by the organization to take me to court. I
Speaker 2: think that probably had some impact subconsciously. I'm sure that's
Speaker 2: probably already sparking some reaction out there, and it's sparking
Speaker 2: reaction because Trek Scoble said it. These things don't necessarily
Speaker 2: spark the same reaction when I don't know, Drew Summers
Speaker 2: says it or something like that. You know, this is
Speaker 2: like the stuff that comes with the territory, and my observation,
Speaker 2: Schooble's handled it very well for the most part, but
Speaker 2: now it's it's grown. It's just this thing, and every
Speaker 2: day there's a there's a new Schooble segment on talk radio.
Speaker 2: So there's another report, there's another rumor, there's another school
Speaker 2: quote that's stirring up, and people are kind of picking
Speaker 2: it apart. What does he mean? What are his motivations?
Speaker 2: So I kind of tried to write just about that
Speaker 2: aspect and some of the things that's gone on behind
Speaker 2: the scenes and what that is like on a human level,
Speaker 2: because I just think it's a fascinating topic. And I
Speaker 2: know not everyone loves the way School has handled it,
Speaker 2: but it's interesting put yourself in his shoes, how would
Speaker 2: you handle it? How would I handle it? Like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, probably not well, probably worse than Trek Schoobel,
Speaker 2: because it's a strange position to be in. You're right,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean he's a victim. Like he's a very
Speaker 2: wealthy man and going to become a wealthier man. But
Speaker 2: he is living this life that not that many people
Speaker 2: either get to live or have to live, and there's
Speaker 2: no simple roadmap for how to navigate that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right. And the word there that's key is human.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Schooble doesn't look at himself as
Speaker 1: a victim, like you know we've had him on the
Speaker 1: podcast couple. You know you have him on the podcast
Speaker 1: and you know you've talked to him, and if you
Speaker 1: observe the way that he goes about his business, he
Speaker 1: is not someone who carries himself as like a victim.
Speaker 1: He is somebody who has the utmost belief in himself
Speaker 1: and thus the utmost belief in the team, and he
Speaker 1: has given everything to the organization through now and however
Speaker 1: long he is here, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about that. So the people that are
Speaker 1: kind of like picking everything apart just kind of feels,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm gonna say, lazy and kind of
Speaker 1: missing the broader picture here. Uh And so like I
Speaker 1: don't really have a whole lot of like headspace to
Speaker 1: give like those kind of like talk radio segments and
Speaker 1: and and those kind of opinions because I just don't
Speaker 1: think they're based in reality. So uh So, like I
Speaker 1: see him, I'm not viewing them. I'm not giving them clicks.
Speaker 1: I'm not giving them like impressions or anything like that,
Speaker 1: because I just know that it's not grounded. And I
Speaker 1: you know who I know is grounded, Terrek Scoogle, Cause
Speaker 1: that quote right there that I'm sure you we're gonna
Speaker 1: pick apart, that's a grounded quote. That's a quote of
Speaker 1: him just like thinking everything through, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And then and just be like, well, like maybe I
Speaker 1: should have just gone back and done this. How many
Speaker 1: times in your life? You you know, everybody out there
Speaker 1: have you thought, you know what, maybe I should have
Speaker 1: done this, But at the time I thought this was
Speaker 1: kind of the best way. That's just him going through life,
Speaker 1: man livelihood, that's okay, and it had nothing, and it
Speaker 1: was not pulling back or holding himself back in any fashion.
Speaker 1: So like, if people look at that in any other fashion,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just gonna say, miss me with that.
Speaker 1: So like, so there's so so there's the school human piece,
Speaker 1: all right, and then the broader piece of this is
Speaker 1: is he gonna get traded? What's the likelihood more likely
Speaker 1: than not? So I guess I'll give my uh my
Speaker 1: seventy percent is my number right now as the Tigers
Speaker 1: lose eleven to two to the.
Speaker 2: Cup, so I'm thirteen what a jump?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so yeah, seventy percent, how about that? Uh,
Speaker 1: because there's something picking up steam. This was one of
Speaker 1: my bold predictions that we talked about a couple of
Speaker 1: weeks ago, Cody, that I know you're not a fan of,
Speaker 1: but like it just kind of seems like other people,
Speaker 1: not just me, other people are kind of saying, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe the Tigers they trade schoogle, but they're but they're
Speaker 1: not punning on the season, and and your colleagues at
Speaker 1: the Athletic also wrote about this and it and we
Speaker 1: don't know. I would encourage everybody to go read it.
Speaker 1: See the names on there. That kind of makes sense
Speaker 1: for various teams. I want to spoil, uh, spoil the story,
Speaker 1: but the fact that this is picking up.
Speaker 2: From Ken and will Sanon was sourced information from other
Speaker 2: executives around the league, basically just saying the Tigers are
Speaker 2: considering a thread the needle option. Not that they're going
Speaker 2: to do this, but they are. They're looking into it,
Speaker 2: They're thinking about it. That's as close as to anything
Speaker 2: solid as we've heard anywhere throughout this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Which I think means that like it that, like again,
Speaker 1: that notion is like, as we sit here July twe
Speaker 1: first is picking up steam, which, like it, like anything
Speaker 1: else with the school decision, is something that no matter
Speaker 1: what you decide, can easily be picked apart and eventually
Speaker 1: it's gonna be Monday morning quarterbacked. Right, This is the
Speaker 1: one that probably in the moment, would be the easiest
Speaker 1: one to pick apart and Monday morning quarterback fair or not.
Speaker 1: But I do feel like this is something that if
Speaker 1: you're gonna like appease all bosses metaphorically. This might this
Speaker 1: might be what they end up doing. I'm saying I
Speaker 1: would do it. I'm just saying that was my BOT
Speaker 1: prediction for a reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it's not what I would do if I
Speaker 2: were running the team, but I understand it. It would
Speaker 2: also be malpractice if they didn't at least consider this
Speaker 2: and think about what it would look like. But as
Speaker 2: we get a little bit closer here, I do wonder
Speaker 2: if the schoopl thing comes down a little bit less
Speaker 2: to the wins and losses in the playoff odds and
Speaker 2: more simply, what are the offers they're going to get.
Speaker 2: Scott Harris is going to have to weigh the offers
Speaker 2: against the odds and think, Okay, is this offer so
Speaker 2: good that it is worth it for twenty twenty seven, eight,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty nine, regardless of you know, the Tiger's chances
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, regardless of if they hope to
Speaker 2: make a run. If it's just an okay offer, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't blame Scott Harris saying you know what, no, screw it,
Speaker 2: we'll keep them, We'll take our chances. But if they
Speaker 2: get a really good offer? Could he turn that down?
Speaker 2: Simply hoping they can make what's still and against the
Speaker 2: odds run in twenty twenty six. That might be all
Speaker 2: it comes down to, because maybe unless they go undefeated
Speaker 2: from now to August third, it's gonna be tough for
Speaker 2: them to be in a whole lot better position than
Speaker 2: they are right now. They can improve a little bit
Speaker 2: and we'll see where we're at. But like it, it
Speaker 2: might be as simple as like, how good is this offer?
Speaker 2: That might be the whole thing. And even if that's
Speaker 2: not the way I would handle it, well, no, I
Speaker 2: would handle that with Schoogle. I would just be all
Speaker 2: in or all out with the team as a whole,
Speaker 2: rather than trying to trade him and still win for
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. But I think this is a more
Speaker 2: complicated thing than a lot of people realize, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot going into it from a lot of different angles.
Speaker 1: Odds versus offer. I like that. I'm steal it. That's
Speaker 1: everything that that's how we're going to frame everything from
Speaker 1: here on out. All right, we are going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break and then afterward, little Kerry Carpenter News,
Speaker 1: a little Spencer Torkolsen news opposite ends of a spectrum
Speaker 1: like everything else earlier this week. But first a word
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Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, let's let's start with Kerry Carpenter. Now,
Speaker 1: he did exit Monday's game, and look, a lot of
Speaker 1: fun things happen on Monday that we're just not going
Speaker 1: to get to and I wish, I wish we would,
Speaker 1: but they were just too many other more pressing things
Speaker 1: to get to. It was a fun game to watch,
Speaker 1: So I want to discount that game and then maybe,
Speaker 1: depending on what happens Wednesday, we look at this series
Speaker 1: completely different, but we can only talk about what we've
Speaker 1: seen most recently. Carry Carpenter Cody, There's no other way
Speaker 1: to put it. He's in a slump, and it's been
Speaker 1: a slump this entire month of July. And look if
Speaker 1: you look at his splits coming in and we don't
Speaker 1: know the extent of his how hurt he is. He left.
Speaker 1: He's being evaluated with a bruised heel. That's why he
Speaker 1: left Monday Night's game after the error by Nico Horner.
Speaker 1: June was a good month for Carry Carpenter. He was
Speaker 1: two fifty three, He had seven bombs like you know,
Speaker 1: with a eight eight seven ops like we kind of again,
Speaker 1: he had had the injury. He comes back and everything
Speaker 1: kind of looks hunky dory, right, been a bad month
Speaker 1: of July. Man so like he is three for thirty
Speaker 1: nine Cody. That's a zero zero seven to seven ballion
Speaker 1: average obviously, and the slug matches it also a zero
Speaker 1: seven to seven slug Like they don't have to go
Speaker 1: other numbers. It's bad he is. He has had a
Speaker 1: futrid month of July. And like, as we're trying to
Speaker 1: project out like what this team is and what does
Speaker 1: it mean and like all these things as of right now,
Speaker 1: this kind of feels like the biggest pullback like that
Speaker 1: the Tigers have, like in terms of trying to project
Speaker 1: like what they could be, what we kind of expected
Speaker 1: them to be this entire year, which is like I
Speaker 1: just don't know if you can be a playoff team
Speaker 1: with Carry Carpenter in the tank, Like I just don't
Speaker 1: know if that's possible, and and so like like I
Speaker 1: don't know what the solution is. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: try to evaluate all of his bats timed up for
Speaker 1: the fastball this that The other thing, the bottom line is,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about needs for this team, they need
Speaker 1: him a to be healthy and then be to be performing.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I don't think it. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's controversial.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. I think Carry Carpenter would probably
Speaker 2: agree with you on all those fronts. He's seing two
Speaker 2: o six for the season, given both some time he's
Speaker 2: missed and just some rough performance. It's kind of amazing
Speaker 2: to think he has thirteen home runs. The power has
Speaker 2: still largely been there when he's been on the field,
Speaker 2: but nothing else really has. He's still seeing just a
Speaker 2: ton of spin and he's chasing it. He's whiffing far
Speaker 2: more than he did last season, bottom eleventh percentile and
Speaker 2: strikeout rate, So even though the walks are up a
Speaker 2: little bit, it's kind of been negated by the strikeouts,
Speaker 2: and it feels like he's digging himself deeper into this
Speaker 2: hole trying to get out of it. Certainly, concerning leaves
Speaker 2: a game with a bruised heel, we don't know a
Speaker 2: ton about that, hoping that that will simply be a
Speaker 2: day to day thing as it's being advertised, but I
Speaker 2: don't know. Almost does make you wonder if maybe he's
Speaker 2: been fighting something more physically, because he just hasn't looked
Speaker 2: right at the play it, and we kind of learned
Speaker 2: last year he's battling hamstring woes and stuff that something
Speaker 2: about it. When he's feeling good physically, his whole approach
Speaker 2: seems to be better. And really I think it's as
Speaker 2: simple as it's been in an approach issue, and that
Speaker 2: not being able to lay off spin has really created
Speaker 2: some big time problems for him.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, Let's frame it this way, Cody,
Speaker 1: who do you think is more well received by the
Speaker 1: fan base? Carry Carpenter or Spencer Torkleson.
Speaker 2: I with Terry Carpenter. Everyone still wants him to hit
Speaker 2: lefties more and all that good stuff, and work's doing
Speaker 2: all right for where he's at. He still has his
Speaker 2: campus supporters. There are also some people who really dislike
Speaker 2: to work. So, as I've always said, it's just really
Speaker 2: hard for anyone to ever be rational about Spencer Torkelsen,
Speaker 2: which is a strange thing.
Speaker 1: So if you're in the war coming into Tuesday, they
Speaker 1: have the same more negative point five. So if you're
Speaker 1: in the war, they're the same, then then you keep
Speaker 1: it then and then you factor in that Spencer's played
Speaker 1: ninety nine or one hundred games now to carry seventy seven,
Speaker 1: And the fact, here's a funny stat I think we
Speaker 1: would agree that carry Carpenter's power also has to be
Speaker 1: gap power. Would we agree with that, Like, it can't
Speaker 1: just be Homer, It's gotta be gap help. Yeah. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: how does the fact that carry Carpenter only has five
Speaker 1: doubles sound to you?
Speaker 2: That's a good stat right there, Kieran, I don't like
Speaker 2: that stat one bit.
Speaker 1: Torglsen has eighteen for the record. He's also got eighteen
Speaker 1: home runs, and they have basically identify identical They do
Speaker 1: have identical baalting average Spencer is probably a little bit
Speaker 1: lower now, but basically identifal identical valuing averages. So the
Speaker 1: one that everybody's quick to replace and the one that
Speaker 1: everyone wants to get more opportunity. And they're the same
Speaker 1: with some elevated stats for torkal Sin and they both
Speaker 1: play position, and I would say tortals defense, despite you
Speaker 1: know what overall metrics would tell you, is more key
Speaker 1: than Carpenter's defense. I think that is also fair. We
Speaker 1: saw that on you know, earlier this week as well.
Speaker 1: So I just to me, like, the Carpenter thing is
Speaker 1: actually really troublesome. The more I look at it, the
Speaker 1: more I want to believe in track record but it's
Speaker 1: actually quite troublesome and something that needs to be rectified
Speaker 1: because he's not gapped to get power. If he's not
Speaker 1: over the fence power, there's not that much more you're
Speaker 1: offering me right now, Cody, and and you need more
Speaker 1: of it. And if while we're on the subject of Torque,
Speaker 1: when I give him some credit, here, here's some here's
Speaker 1: something wild, all right? I like this. This got the
Speaker 1: trend on Tiger's Twitter, and people didn't believe it. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure I believe it either, but I went looked
Speaker 1: it up. It is true. Here is special Torgelsen this
Speaker 1: year with runners in corp position three h nine with
Speaker 1: a six zero three slug and a one point zero
Speaker 1: four six ops with runners of this corp position all right,
Speaker 1: one eight eight WRC plus code. I know you love
Speaker 1: that stat. WRC plus one eight eight WRC plus with
Speaker 1: runners of scoring position. According to database on Twitter, that
Speaker 1: is eleventh among qualified hitters in baseball. And by the way,
Speaker 1: on Monday night, all the positive things that was a
Speaker 1: to run base hit with a run with the bases loaded,
Speaker 1: not just running to scoring the base loaded.
Speaker 2: Is a hit with the bases loaded. He's one of
Speaker 2: nine this year, one, hitting, twelve played appearances, nine at bats,
Speaker 2: but all those other numbers are real. I'll admit I
Speaker 2: was surprised at his success with runners in scoring position.
Speaker 2: But another important reminder, you know, just because you see
Speaker 2: you guys strike out a couple of times with runners
Speaker 2: on base, doesn't mean he sucks with runners in scoring position.
Speaker 2: It's like the rest of baseball. If you get a
Speaker 2: hit three out of ten times, you're doing pretty well.
Speaker 2: And that's about what Torque has done. He's done that
Speaker 2: with a little pop with runners in scoring position. Overall,
Speaker 2: though he is hitting two a five like Carry Carpenter.
Speaker 2: Like Carry Carpenter, not doing well against spin with rates
Speaker 2: way up one base percentage, you know, and Torks the
Speaker 2: guy who does take his walks, but he's not hitting
Speaker 2: for average at all. If your one base percentage is
Speaker 2: below three hundred, you're gonna have a really tough time
Speaker 2: contributing to a major league lineup. You better hit for power,
Speaker 2: which I guess both of those guys do just enough
Speaker 2: to really make them viable. You know, I want to
Speaker 2: see one base percentages of three point thirty plus for
Speaker 2: those guys, and that just takes being a more well
Speaker 2: rounded hitter, and it's it's obviously not an easy thing
Speaker 2: to do because both of them are still struggling with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, as we wrap up here, Dylan Dingler
Speaker 1: three home runs in two days. I did say on Sunday.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, you got it Fields Due.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I would have thought three in two days.
Speaker 1: But you know, credit to Dylan Dingler five, isn't he?
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to apologize to him. And again,
Speaker 1: there are several fun moments on Monday's game that we're
Speaker 1: just not gonna be able to get to. But I
Speaker 1: did want to kind of wrap up here. We talked
Speaker 1: about what would happen when Labor came back and you know,
Speaker 1: roster move wise, and the Tigers ended up going with
Speaker 1: Eduardo Valencia being sent down. I'm not sure what the
Speaker 1: read is on there. Maybe maybe it's one of those
Speaker 1: things where they just kind of combled with the expected
Speaker 1: return of Hobby Bias too, and so they kind of
Speaker 1: lumped them together as opposed as to what they would
Speaker 1: do as opposed to just like one off each move
Speaker 1: because I figure Ben Maljerry probably would be next if
Speaker 1: when Hobby is ready. That's just a guess though. Any
Speaker 1: any thoughts on Valencia's kind of short little tenure being
Speaker 1: or I said tenure being short?
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, you know, I guess I should have
Speaker 2: seen that coming. As I said, I kind of thought
Speaker 2: it would be more mal Jerry, mostly based on the
Speaker 2: team that just talked about Valencia like they were interested
Speaker 2: in having them stick around for a bit after the break.
Speaker 2: But Glabor Torres, you know, made it back in pretty
Speaker 2: quick fashion after the All Star break. The move ultimately
Speaker 2: makes sense. Having three catchers is an extreme luxury. There's
Speaker 2: going to be tough for Valencia to play much and
Speaker 2: with Glabor taking over a second base role, that probably
Speaker 2: pushes how you lee to the bench a little more often.
Speaker 2: So then even like getting either of those guys right
Speaker 2: handed pinch hit at bats is tough, and Valencia, I think,
Speaker 2: is a guy you still want playing. He definitely has
Speaker 2: a lot of work to do catching, receiving, maybe even
Speaker 2: playing a little first base. He has to become a
Speaker 2: more well rounded defender if he's really going to have
Speaker 2: a career in the big leagues. We know the dude
Speaker 2: can hit a little bit, but that's someone I think
Speaker 2: you want to continue to hone his craft. So if
Speaker 2: you have Dylton Dingler healthy and available, I actually think
Speaker 2: this makes sense for now. Although Valencia, you know, did
Speaker 2: enough to open some eyes. It will be really interesting
Speaker 2: to see what his future holds. I'm sure we will
Speaker 2: see much more of him in the next couple of years.
Speaker 1: Next couple of years could be next couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: given how you know baseball works. And you know another
Speaker 1: example of that is, you know, from the pitching side,
Speaker 1: Jack Flarerty today goes on the fifteen day I l
Speaker 1: with right flexer inflammation. He was four innings, four runs,
Speaker 1: yeah or yeah, four runs, gave up the the two
Speaker 1: bombs there and and you know, one of those games
Speaker 1: that we would in a different circumstance we have been
Speaker 1: talking about, like what do you make of Jack Flaherty.
Speaker 1: You know, we would have done that, We would have
Speaker 1: done that old game. Obviously, I hope he's healthy, but again,
Speaker 1: like this is this is the the Cater Montero luxury.
Speaker 1: And why we keep talking about him is because like
Speaker 1: it sucks that flaaritys shurt, but it just kind of
Speaker 1: just kind of smoothly runs Montero in there. He would
Speaker 1: have been there anyway, the six man rotation now is
Speaker 1: just kind of back to normal. I guess with Montero.
Speaker 2: It's all right, But to be honest, here in this
Speaker 2: kind of worries me because it sounds like Montero is
Speaker 2: going to be back in the rotation for a couple turns,
Speaker 2: which means Cater Montero is not gonna be pitching at
Speaker 2: the end of games. We just saw a blow up
Speaker 2: that you're gonna have to tax your bullpen a little
Speaker 2: bit Tuesday and Wednesday, and in a time where every
Speaker 2: game really matters, Like, how good are you going to
Speaker 2: feel about that bullpen? Also, for Jack, unfortunate surprise injury
Speaker 2: kind of came out of nowhere. At least it felt
Speaker 2: like this is a guy who is wont among the
Speaker 2: potential trade chips, and he's now out with a flexer strain.
Speaker 2: The Tigers tried to sound like it could be a
Speaker 2: minimum fifteen days stay on the IL. I don't know
Speaker 2: how many flexer strains are minimum stays. And also, if
Speaker 2: they were to try to trade him, I'll say I
Speaker 2: wouldn't really be trying to trade much for a guy
Speaker 2: with a with a flexer strain, so potentially he could
Speaker 2: throw a huge wrinkle in the Tigers' plans in a
Speaker 2: couple of different ways. We will see how they weather that.
Speaker 1: We'll see how they weather that that's kind of been
Speaker 1: since June one, like like, we'll see how they weather that,
Speaker 1: whether it alone, whether they've weathered a lot. And and
Speaker 1: in fairness, like you know, when it's eleven to two
Speaker 1: you get blown out like they did today, it feels natural.
Speaker 1: It is kind of be a little bit more pessimistic
Speaker 1: or whatever. Again, Monday was a very fun game. You
Speaker 1: can say what you want about like ken Lee, you
Speaker 1: can say what you want about finning in and all that.
Speaker 1: All that is fair, All the overarching concerns are fair.
Speaker 1: But it was a very fun game. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of elements there where it kind of felt like
Speaker 1: this is a team that's in like refused to lose mode.
Speaker 1: Was kind of like when I was watching and and
Speaker 1: maybe that will still be the case. From your destiny to.
Speaker 2: An eleven two blowout. That's kind of the story of
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty six Tigers in the show.
Speaker 1: There you go, and we're gonna continue talking about them
Speaker 1: and speculating and assessing and and giving predictions and having
Speaker 1: fun doing you guys can follow along at Coe Steven Higgen.
Speaker 1: I am at Kering on his course. Decly pot page
Speaker 1: at Tiger Territory to score YouTube Apple, we are so
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Speaker 1: So for Coach Stapenhagen, I am Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have
Speaker 1: a great day.