Speaker 1: Throughout the history of man, there have been constant epidemics
Speaker 1: of many diseases. Little has been known or understood as
Speaker 1: to why these things happen. In recent times, it has
Speaker 1: been believed that these many diseases are contagious and that
Speaker 1: germs have spread them. This belief has created a monster
Speaker 1: as the medical field has steadily found stronger and more
Speaker 1: potent drugs, poisons, and antibiotics in their constant effort to
Speaker 1: destroy what they believe to be the cause. A large
Speaker 1: variety of vaccines and antitoxins have been developed because of
Speaker 1: the belief in a large variety of bacteria and viruses. Yet,
Speaker 1: in spite of massive research, manufacturing, and wide use of
Speaker 1: these items, mankind still goes on suffering from an ever
Speaker 1: increasing variety of disease and disorders with no let up
Speaker 1: in sight. Disease, old age, and death are the result
Speaker 1: of accumulated poisons and congestions throughout the entire body. The
Speaker 1: toxins become crystallized and hardened, settling around the joints, in
Speaker 1: the muscles and throughout the billions of cells all over
Speaker 1: the body. Germs and viruses do not and cannot cause
Speaker 1: any of our diseases, so we have no need for
Speaker 1: finding various kinds of poisons to destroy them. All diseases,
Speaker 1: regardless of their names, come within this understanding, as only
Speaker 1: varied expressions of the one disease of toxemia. Basically, all
Speaker 1: of our diseases are created by ourselves because we have
Speaker 1: never taken the time to discover the true foods meant
Speaker 1: for man's use. Very often an epidemic occurs after holiday feasting.
Speaker 1: Even the very best of foods in excess can create problems.
Speaker 1: Since germs do not cause our disorders, there must be
Speaker 1: another logical reason for the triggering of an epidemic. This
Speaker 1: is a matter of simple vibration. The better the physical
Speaker 1: and mental condition a person is in, the higher becomes
Speaker 1: his vibration. But as he steadily becomes clogged with more
Speaker 1: and more waste matter, his vibration goes constantly downward until
Speaker 1: he is ready and in need of a change. If
Speaker 1: he then comes in contact with one or more who
Speaker 1: have already started the cleansing process, he picks up the
Speaker 1: vibration of change, and all his functions are triggered into
Speaker 1: the same action. The person with a toxic free body,
Speaker 1: an undisturbed mind is the one unaffected by the epidemic.
Speaker 2: It was so hard for me to not make noises,
Speaker 2: I know, for me to listen to that, I know.
Speaker 3: I okay.
Speaker 2: Was that from like twenty two hundred BCE, I hope? Oh,
Speaker 2: I mean, I can tell by the grammar that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Thou art No. In many ways yes, and in many
Speaker 1: ways no.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: That was from a book by Stanley Burrows called The
Speaker 1: Master Cleanser. And this book I think was published in
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, but the original Master Klen's diet was
Speaker 1: introduced by Burrows in the nineteen forties.
Speaker 4: That's from a little.
Speaker 1: Chapter of the book called a word about quote unquote
Speaker 1: epidemics and quote unquote germ cause diseases.
Speaker 3: Sorry, that book was published in.
Speaker 1: The seventy Oh, Aaron, as if there aren't similar ones
Speaker 1: today debunking germ theory.
Speaker 4: Okay, we usually should not take this much of dismissive tone.
Speaker 1: Already, but it's challenging, I mean. And the reason I
Speaker 1: say it's from older two is because like the same
Speaker 1: message has basically applied since humans have formed concepts surrounding
Speaker 1: disease and health. It goes back to the humoral theory.
Speaker 3: Right, humors, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But I just yeah, yeah, so that's still getting Goodreads reviews.
Speaker 1: A lot of people are still rating it has a
Speaker 1: four out of five on Goodreads. I didn't look at
Speaker 1: how many reviews, but as an example, yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh so, okay, I'm going to take a lot of
Speaker 2: deep breath. Yeah, cleansing breath, cleansing breath.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: During this episode, we're we're on the same page.
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Aaron.
Speaker 3: Welsh and I'm Aaron Allmann.
Speaker 4: Update and this is this podcast will kill.
Speaker 3: You Today we're detoxing.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, talking about detox Yeah, what is it mean?
Speaker 4: What does it mean? Does it mean the episode?
Speaker 3: That's the episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, can you do it?
Speaker 3: Happy New Year?
Speaker 1: Yes, Happy New Year. First episode of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: We're coming to you from the past. We're time travelers
Speaker 1: here and predicting that we have all, you know, indulged
Speaker 1: and eaten some delicious foods and maybe had a little
Speaker 1: bit of drinks here and there, and you might be
Speaker 1: feeling like you're getting a lot of ads for detox.
Speaker 2: Tease and need to cleanse somehow.
Speaker 1: Purifying, et cetera. Impurities.
Speaker 3: So we're here to.
Speaker 2: Tell you about that and whether you should or not,
Speaker 2: except we won't tell you that, because again, this is.
Speaker 4: Is not antical podcast.
Speaker 2: But we'll tell you so you can make you up
Speaker 2: your own mind.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 4: I am so excited for this. There is so much.
Speaker 1: This took me in the very the most unexpected directions.
Speaker 3: I love it when it does that.
Speaker 4: Me too, me too.
Speaker 1: But before we get into like everything, it's quarantiny time.
Speaker 3: It's quarantiny time.
Speaker 2: What are we drinking this week? We're drinking water. That's right,
Speaker 2: that's right, we are drinking water. The easiest recipe so
Speaker 2: far and for yourself, one of the tastiest and one
Speaker 2: of the best for detalks.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we're kind of getting a little
Speaker 1: bit ahead of ourselves here with the punchline being water.
Speaker 1: But yeah, detox tease or not, Like, there is no
Speaker 1: such thing as a detox drink that effectively will detalk
Speaker 1: to you from toxins quote unquote whatever that means.
Speaker 2: Quote can't wait to talk about what that means.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, well, thats the recipe. But like it's water,
Speaker 1: it's water. So subscribe to our social media anyway, and
Speaker 1: you know, we don't even have to put it on
Speaker 1: our website because it's water again. But if you want
Speaker 1: to go to our website anyway, you can find all
Speaker 1: sorts of cool things. We've got transcripts, we've got the
Speaker 1: sources for each and every.
Speaker 4: One of our episodes.
Speaker 1: We've got links to music by Bloodmobile, who's now on Instagram.
Speaker 1: We've got links to our bookshop dot org affiliate page,
Speaker 1: our Goodreads list.
Speaker 4: What else do we have?
Speaker 1: Oh, merch Patreon, contact us form that's now working again
Speaker 1: after a spell of not sorry about that, everyone, and
Speaker 1: a submit your first hand account form.
Speaker 4: Good stuff.
Speaker 1: Check it out.
Speaker 2: I really nailed it, Aaron. Thanks, great job. Thanks well,
Speaker 2: we've got a lot to cover. Indeed, now we get
Speaker 2: into it.
Speaker 4: We shall.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and start detoxing, Aaron. We're
Speaker 1: gonna play a game.
Speaker 3: Oh love it is you?
Speaker 5: Ready?
Speaker 1: Okay, it's easy, don't worry, don't sweat about it. It's
Speaker 1: not It's just a little pop quiz type of game.
Speaker 3: Oh, just a pop quiz.
Speaker 1: Sorry, just a little bit of adrenaline rush right there. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want you to guess the name of the website
Speaker 1: that these blog post titles come from. Ready, does detoxing
Speaker 1: really work a heavy metal detox my personal favorite. You
Speaker 1: probably have a parasite. Here's what to do about it.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'm supposed to guess what website those came from. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm really worried that it's something that you would think
Speaker 2: is legit.
Speaker 3: Like, I don't know, don't.
Speaker 4: Worry too much about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, I don't know dtodiet dot com, Maaron.
Speaker 1: When we think of pseudo cures and people who promote
Speaker 1: the spread of pseudo cures, do you want to take
Speaker 1: a is there one name.
Speaker 4: That comes to mind?
Speaker 3: Doctor oz God?
Speaker 1: There are so many, Okay, I think that the fact that, like,
Speaker 1: to me, I was like, oh, this will be like
Speaker 1: an obvious answer.
Speaker 2: There oh goog goopop it is goopy goop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, goopy goop goopy goop.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are And those are just a sampling. There's
Speaker 1: there's lots more where that comes from. Those are the
Speaker 1: ones that were more detox related. And by the way,
Speaker 1: do you want to know about what you're supposed to
Speaker 1: do for your alleged parasite?
Speaker 3: Is it ivermectin It's not.
Speaker 1: According to the author of that blog post quote. In
Speaker 1: my experience, an eight day mono diet goat milk cleanse
Speaker 1: accompanied by a specific vermifuge made of anti parasitic herbs
Speaker 1: is the most successful treatment.
Speaker 3: End quote for what.
Speaker 4: The Fairer site that you probably have your.
Speaker 2: Friendly neighborhood parasite.
Speaker 1: Right, but really you're just pooping out the lining of
Speaker 1: your intestines.
Speaker 4: When you see that.
Speaker 3: Little toilet milk mono diet.
Speaker 4: It means just goat milk.
Speaker 3: I can guess that.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, I know, I know, but yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: I called out Goop because they're one of the biggest
Speaker 1: offenders in promoting these pseudo cures, but they are far,
Speaker 1: so far, far far far from the only ones profiting
Speaker 1: off of this fear mongering and snake oil. In twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, the detox products market was estimated at nearly
Speaker 1: seventy billion dollars globally.
Speaker 3: Just for detox detox.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and over the next five years is predicted to
Speaker 1: grow substantially, with a forecasted revenue of ninety five billion
Speaker 1: by twenty thirty. Sounds like a lot, right, Like ninety
Speaker 1: five billion.
Speaker 4: Dollars is a lot.
Speaker 1: That's just a tiny sliver of the global wellness industry,
Speaker 1: which in twenty twenty three was estimated at six point
Speaker 1: three trillion, predicted to hit eight point five trillion by
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 6: Wellness, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: What detox means or what constitutes a detox product, It's
Speaker 1: not always clear cut by design. But think of you know,
Speaker 1: your master cleanses, your calonics, your chlation therapies, books promoting
Speaker 1: detox diets, skin care products that claim to rid you
Speaker 1: of wrinkle causing toxins, whose stickers you put on the
Speaker 1: bottom of your feet that are supposed to leach away
Speaker 1: heavy metals from your body. I don't know, like magnet
Speaker 1: bracelets and stuff, green juices and superfoods, supplements that allege
Speaker 1: to eliminate harmful waste. I mean, like we could spend
Speaker 1: the rest of the time just talking about the products. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what is it that these detox products, what are
Speaker 1: they actually selling?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, they're not selling you ways to detox. They're not
Speaker 1: selling you some you know, active ingredients. That's that's doing
Speaker 1: anything at all. What they're selling you is an opportunity
Speaker 1: to reinvent yourself, a sense of protection from the dangerous
Speaker 1: world outside and absolution from the unwise, indulgent choices that
Speaker 1: you have made. Essentially, they're selling you hope and rebirth.
Speaker 1: And with this, detox products are carrying on a millennia
Speaker 1: old tradition spending money on products that at the best
Speaker 1: do nothing and at the worst do harm, so that
Speaker 1: you can feel like you have made the optimal choice
Speaker 1: for your health. Detox is such a vague term that
Speaker 1: tracing its history or the history of the idea of
Speaker 1: detox it's a slippery beast. But if we think about
Speaker 1: a detox product as something that you know, restores the
Speaker 1: body's balance or quote unquote flushes out waste or jump
Speaker 1: starts your metabolism or enhances your liver's detox capacity, then
Speaker 1: the history of these elixirs, purgatives, teas, diets, cleanses, enemas
Speaker 1: goes back millennia. And I want to distinguish here, just
Speaker 1: right off the bat, between like detox as in for
Speaker 1: you know, certain drug and alcohol programs. This is like
Speaker 1: we're talking about detox in the wellness industry. Yes, I know,
Speaker 1: you'll talk about the difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will, because I do think it's a really
Speaker 2: interesting part of how we view the concept of detoxification. Ye,
Speaker 2: Like the way that we use that word in medicine
Speaker 2: can mean multiple different things, and I do think that
Speaker 2: that's such a so we'll talk a little bit more
Speaker 2: about it later.
Speaker 1: Right, And it has been co opted by like the
Speaker 1: wellness industry to sell meaningless scam products. Yeah, okay, I
Speaker 1: haven't said these words in a while, so I'm excited
Speaker 1: I get to say them. The Ebers Papyrus, Ebers Papyrus,
Speaker 1: I still don't know the right way to say it.
Speaker 1: Some years later, Each in Egypt, written around fifteen fifty BCE,
Speaker 1: describes various spositories, purgatives, anemas, and emetics, all to rid
Speaker 1: the body of the disease causing agent. Diet and impure
Speaker 1: foods were considered to be the primary drivers of disease,
Speaker 1: and so these formulations were intended to basically like clean
Speaker 1: out your guts, thus evacuating the impurities and preventing them
Speaker 1: from reaching your bloodstream where they would cause disease. And
Speaker 1: maybe these various you know, recipes would be administered orally
Speaker 1: like a mixture of milk, sycamore fruit and honey which
Speaker 1: was guaranteed to open the bowels, or they might be
Speaker 1: delivered another way, like via a cow's horn with the
Speaker 1: end cut off.
Speaker 4: But stuck into your butt.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, sorry, this was like I was expecting, like
Speaker 2: an enema type, but the cow's horn really threw me off.
Speaker 4: Oh well, that's that's the tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: That's the cow's horn, tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Bile salts and ox file were often common enema ingredients
Speaker 1: delivered interesting this way, Yeah, hundreds of recipes. Hundreds are listed,
Speaker 1: and the evers papyrus for medications to be administered via
Speaker 1: the rectum. The legend goes that the ancient Egyptians invented
Speaker 1: enemas after watching the ibis, the bird you know.
Speaker 4: Like that that bird legs yeah, beat storky thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, sorry, ornithologists ibises that they, after watching the ibis,
Speaker 6: draw up water into its beak and then insert it
Speaker 6: into its butt to wash out decaying poop.
Speaker 1: Ibises do not do this, like, they do not self
Speaker 1: administer enemas. Let me just say that we clarify, but
Speaker 1: apparently they do splash water on glands near their butts,
Speaker 1: and so it's probably like they saw that and then.
Speaker 2: They use their own little bidet. They've made their own
Speaker 2: bidet exactly love it.
Speaker 1: But also I don't know, like, is this just like
Speaker 1: somebody ad just so story that somebody was like, oh
Speaker 1: and then Galen was like, by the way, the Egyptians
Speaker 1: saw the ibist doing this and that's why they thought
Speaker 1: about enemas. So anyway, okay, but however, people came to
Speaker 1: use animas also. Animals were widespread all over the ancient world, right, yeah, yeah, everyone,
Speaker 1: everyone came up with animas.
Speaker 2: Honestly, it makes sense, right, Like you've got two main
Speaker 2: routes exactly, you're gonna.
Speaker 3: Use them both.
Speaker 4: You're gonna you're gonna use them both.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh. And animas were popular, very popular in ancient Egypt,
Speaker 1: and in ancient Greece, and in ancient Rome and really
Speaker 1: across the entire ancient world. Animas everywhere. Ancient Babylonians used animata,
Speaker 1: which is the plural for enema or is like you
Speaker 1: can use that one of the plural animata.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As early as six hundred BCE, this recipe was thought
Speaker 1: to expel the disease causing demons from the body. Right quote,
Speaker 1: mix rock, salt and ammonia with unmixed wine. Let him
Speaker 1: take it without food through his mouth as well as
Speaker 1: by his anus and sprinkle him with it and he
Speaker 1: will recover, just covering all the bases.
Speaker 3: There, just everywhere, everywhere.
Speaker 1: In ancient Greece, there were literally enema doctors. Later clusters
Speaker 1: clisters was the much more common word used until the
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, but it was not specific to the rectum.
Speaker 1: It was also like included vaginal douches and like bladder
Speaker 1: levage and stuff like that. Hippocrates and Galen loved animata
Speaker 1: and also enema comes from the word the Latin from
Speaker 1: meaning throw it in, throw it in, just toss.
Speaker 3: It in there, toss it in.
Speaker 1: They were used as a standalone like just just to
Speaker 1: like clean it out, kind of like you're just purging, right,
Speaker 1: or to administer medicines. Some physicians opted for straight up
Speaker 1: water or saline, while others preferred a more complex mixture
Speaker 1: with like oil and honey and milk and other ingredients.
Speaker 1: Biles bile was a really common ingredient from various animals
Speaker 1: from ancient China. Quote secure a large pigs bile and
Speaker 1: mix with a small quantity of vinegar. Insert a bamboo
Speaker 1: tube three or four inches long into the rectum and
Speaker 1: insert the mixture. End quote Yeah well, yeah, yeah, don't
Speaker 1: really know what bile will do up there?
Speaker 2: A large A large pigs bile is also an interesting
Speaker 2: like what does that mean exactly?
Speaker 1: Oh, like the bile from a large pig. Oh, that's
Speaker 1: just my interpretation.
Speaker 2: That might have been my battery, a large pigs bio.
Speaker 5: Got it?
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 4: Okay, that's my bad.
Speaker 1: The reverence that these physicians held for enemas is evident
Speaker 1: in the way that they about them. There are entire
Speaker 1: books or chapters dedicated to their use. Who they recommended
Speaker 1: receive an enema like this was everyone unless you were
Speaker 1: already had a fever, in which case like maybe lay
Speaker 1: off the anima. But everyone anemas for everyone, for all.
Speaker 4: And then what they thought animas.
Speaker 1: Could cure everything again everything animals for every one and everything.
Speaker 1: You know, there's kidney stones, gout, jaundice, weight gain, malaria, indigestion,
Speaker 1: I mean, you name it. Animals were really just another
Speaker 1: very popular tool in the toolbox of humoral medicine, whereby
Speaker 1: a build up of some substance was at the root
Speaker 1: of disease. R. Galen in the second century A. D.
Speaker 1: Basically described it as like every organ in your body
Speaker 1: produces waste products that need to be fully eliminated, otherwise
Speaker 1: they will cause disease.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they apparently cannot do it themselves, so we must.
Speaker 4: And we must do something.
Speaker 3: We must action.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, And so this idea over the years kind
Speaker 1: of changed a little bit here and there, but it's
Speaker 1: very similar to this idea called autointoxication or intestinal auto intoxication,
Speaker 1: whereby like it's in these toxins are coming from inside you.
Speaker 1: The call is from coming from inside the house. The
Speaker 1: Persian physician Avicenna from the eleventh century CEE also endorsed
Speaker 1: enemas for this purpose. Quote the anima is an excellent
Speaker 1: agent for getting rid of the superfluities of the intestinal tract,
Speaker 1: as well as for allaying pains over the kidneys and bladder,
Speaker 1: and for relieving inflammatory conditions of these organs, and also
Speaker 1: for relieving pain and for drawing superfluities from the vital
Speaker 1: organs of the.
Speaker 4: Upper parts of the body. Everything, everything, everything.
Speaker 1: This idea of autointoxication is actually a really interesting one,
Speaker 1: not just because of like how long it lingered in
Speaker 1: medical you know, the medical realm, but also for the
Speaker 1: fact that there might be some truth to it based
Speaker 1: in like our gut, brain microbiome axis and like there
Speaker 1: are some dyspiosis that actually can cause major issues, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of all part of the same idea
Speaker 2: that like, sometimes things are off balance in our own bodies.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 1: But I also find this idea so fascinating because it, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds exactly like or very similar to the ads
Speaker 1: for detox teas.
Speaker 4: Just replace enema with cleansing.
Speaker 1: Tea, right, like, this will restore the balance, This will
Speaker 1: get rid of those impurities that have built up in
Speaker 1: your body. And I did not plan to take us
Speaker 1: down through the history of enema of an Amata'.
Speaker 2: So thrilled that you did, though me too.
Speaker 4: There are such so much fodder. It's incredible, it's incredible.
Speaker 1: But I think that, like, first of all, enema's were
Speaker 1: not the only tools out there, right, there was bleeding, purgatives, emetics, saunas,
Speaker 1: fasting water, meditation, rbs, like everything. So many different cultures
Speaker 1: practice many different methods to rid the body of what
Speaker 1: they perceived to be impurities and whatever that meant. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it didn't involve any physiological thing at all. It was
Speaker 1: just like meditation, right, impure thoughts, impure thoughts, Graham and
Speaker 1: Kellogg and all that. But but I think that animas
Speaker 1: really stood out to me because of the language used
Speaker 1: to describe, you know, what they do.
Speaker 2: Very specific of like the build up, the impure, the
Speaker 2: right toxins or the like.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's yeah and like interesting, the vague explanations as
Speaker 1: to why they do what they do, what they're actually doing,
Speaker 1: who should have it? Everyone again and yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: just like also fun. So anyway, they were incredibly popular.
Speaker 1: So these animata, you're like, Okay, cow's horn that threw
Speaker 1: me off. Yeah, that's the least of it, all right,
Speaker 1: All shapes and sizes, all different delivery systems, made up
Speaker 1: of all kinds of materials, from cane stalks to bamboo,
Speaker 1: cow horn of course, ivory, the syringe, like how do
Speaker 1: you deliver the water might be made from the scrotum
Speaker 1: of a deer, goat or ox might be made of leather, hide,
Speaker 1: pigs bladder, or delivered directly via mouth through the tube
Speaker 1: like you would just have an assistant to help you
Speaker 1: with that. In later centuries, especially with the invention of
Speaker 1: the volcanization of rubber, metal and rubber, replaced these metals.
Speaker 2: Side note, I don't think I knew that cow's horns
Speaker 2: were hollow.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I used to have one that I got in North
Speaker 1: Carolina when I was a child, and I loved it
Speaker 1: so much. I got it like one of those little
Speaker 1: tourist shops and you would blow like you could make
Speaker 1: a horn noise, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think I knew that.
Speaker 2: If I haven't spent enough time around horns, I guess.
Speaker 1: To carry around if it were. Yeah, yeah, So there
Speaker 1: you go, instant enema. Yeah yeah, but so okay, the
Speaker 1: popularity of animas, right, I'm skipping over a lot of
Speaker 1: history here. There's okay, we could do a whole episode
Speaker 1: on enemas. In fact, I held some back in case
Speaker 1: we do a whole episodes.
Speaker 7: We do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I mean they were pretty much quite
Speaker 1: popular from ancient times and to the seventeenth eighteenth centuries,
Speaker 1: and then they weren't just like popular, they were the rage,
Speaker 1: like all the rage. So whereas the for instance, whereas
Speaker 1: the fourteenth century English surgeon John of Varden recommended that
Speaker 1: everyone use an enema three to four times a year,
Speaker 1: even if you were healthy, by the eighteenth century early
Speaker 1: eighteenth century Parisian socialites were taking them three to four
Speaker 1: times a day. What what indeed, yes, three to four time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I can think of a lot of
Speaker 2: ways that could go wrong. Oh there it did, Yeah
Speaker 2: it did.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: So for this is from a nineteen eighty five paper
Speaker 1: on the history of enema's quote, oh.
Speaker 4: I went deep down the rabbit hole erin.
Speaker 8: Me?
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Quote It became customary in France to take an enema
Speaker 1: after dinner, and a lady was considered indelicate if it
Speaker 1: were known that she had omitted the practice.
Speaker 5: End quote.
Speaker 4: The goal like why were.
Speaker 1: People taking so many animas purification whatever that meant purification?
Speaker 2: They weren't just like all constipated and they like needed
Speaker 2: I mean, I.
Speaker 4: Don't know, Like it's so hard to know.
Speaker 1: Constipation was a preoccupation, has been a preoccupation of humans forever.
Speaker 1: It was the root of a lot of It was
Speaker 1: a lot of fear.
Speaker 3: It's the bill, ump, it's the bill.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like, what's happening to that poop that's stuck
Speaker 1: in my body? It's releasing all these toxins. That's why
Speaker 1: I'm getting tuberculosis. Like that was sort of the a
Speaker 1: to b Okay. Yeah, Louis the eleventh, who reigned in
Speaker 1: the fifteenth century, was a big fan of anemas and
Speaker 1: even ordered them for his pet dogs on occasion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he wasn't the only French monarch with a thing
Speaker 1: for anemas. And also, like I just I'm sorry in advance,
Speaker 1: the papers that I read really highlighted the use of
Speaker 1: anemas in France. I don't know if there were like
Speaker 1: a couple of major academic papers that came out, so
Speaker 1: a lot of these examples come from France. Oh, hey,
Speaker 1: you know Louis the fourteenth so it was king during
Speaker 1: the seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries received over his reign
Speaker 1: over two thousand enemas and reportedly would receive visitors while
Speaker 1: getting one.
Speaker 2: I mean they'd take a while sometimes, I.
Speaker 1: Was going to say, with two thousand animas, like yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to match a task at that pin stuff.
Speaker 4: To do right, right, get that business gun.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They were so commonplace enemas that they appeared in literature
Speaker 1: like the Shakespeare even mentiones enemas, and they also appeared
Speaker 1: in art and like naughty art. The recipes for enemas
Speaker 1: or anema liquid grew more inventive. Sometimes it was scented
Speaker 1: with pleasing odors like rose or orange, or tinted with
Speaker 1: nice colors to give it more visual appeal. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't just the liquid that people experimented with, the delivery
Speaker 1: system was also up for improvement, like the cleister chair.
Speaker 4: What is a cleister chair?
Speaker 3: Please tell me quote a bench.
Speaker 1: Like piece of furniture with a rectal nozzle sticking upright
Speaker 1: in the middle. The user sat on the nozzle while
Speaker 1: pumping a handle up and down to inject the anima. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets better. Because there was also something called the fumigator.
Speaker 3: Please tell me about the I will.
Speaker 1: I will, I cannot wait. The fumigator was a metal
Speaker 1: canister filled with burning tobacco. Right, You got the metal
Speaker 1: canister burning tobacco in the middle, two tubes attached to it.
Speaker 1: One tube went up your butt and the other into
Speaker 1: an assistant's mouth to blow smoke up your butt. So
Speaker 1: you know that that's saying, that's saying, that's what it's from.
Speaker 3: That's what it's from. What did they think that this did?
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from like a new way to enjoy
Speaker 2: your tobacco?
Speaker 1: I have to imagine that first of all, they thought
Speaker 1: it did everything, and then there were people who were
Speaker 1: like obviously like I think that some of the plays
Speaker 1: from France were especially like like making fun of this
Speaker 1: widespread faith in animata, being like they don't actually do anything.
Speaker 1: So I think the phrase blowing like don't blow smoke
Speaker 1: up my butt, that's what this is from. Is this like, okay,
Speaker 1: you're failing to deliver on your promise.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so fascinating, Aaron, I know. And they were
Speaker 2: all used for like so called medical purposes, because I
Speaker 2: feel like I could also see these being used for
Speaker 2: pleasure reasons.
Speaker 4: They were elusively, they were also hence the naughty art.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, but that's like makes more sense
Speaker 2: than just like.
Speaker 1: You know, this was like very very much medical medical
Speaker 1: okay right. The fumigator was thought to be especially helpful
Speaker 1: to resuscitate the drowned or the nearly drowned.
Speaker 3: Oh dear, okay yep.
Speaker 1: Then there was Kellogg as you know, as in Kellogg Cereal,
Speaker 1: Kellog Cereal pure oxygen enema.
Speaker 2: Do you know? Erin When I was on the tram
Speaker 2: recently in Denver, I saw ads for home oxygen canisters
Speaker 2: that you can just have at home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, you could use it for an enema.
Speaker 4: Now, well I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't back in the day, Yeah, sorry, don't.
Speaker 4: Think I should. Definitely don't think you should.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh. And I do think it's really interesting, like the
Speaker 1: parallel between you know, just thinking about these kind of
Speaker 1: like what were.
Speaker 4: They used for? Everything?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 3: Yeah, havebit, just have it.
Speaker 4: There, healthy, sick, whatever. This is what you need.
Speaker 1: This is what you need, and just like today, women
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century were specifically targeted with advertisements for enemas.
Speaker 1: Interesting the prevailing belief that was that women were more
Speaker 1: susceptible to constipation and thus more susceptible to toxins than men,
Speaker 1: and so some doctors recommended daily enemas in conjunction with
Speaker 1: leeches and castor oil for quote rheumatism, asthma, epilepsy, hysteria,
Speaker 1: ulcerated sore throat convulsions, and influenza.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean they were so out of control popular that
Speaker 1: in some countries laws had to be instituted restricting their
Speaker 1: administration to be done by doctors alone, because too many
Speaker 1: pharmacits apparently were getting their hands in the anima game and.
Speaker 2: People were getting hurt, I presume, Yeah, yeah, okay, it's
Speaker 2: just a.
Speaker 4: Givenes, it's a given. It has absolutely happened.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: The number of like patented anima delivery systems from the
Speaker 1: eighteenth and nineteenth centuries is truly outrageous. Like I was,
Speaker 1: I was working on this on all of our recent travel,
Speaker 1: like on airplanes, and I kept having to like shield
Speaker 1: my screen or like turn down the brightness that people
Speaker 1: wouldn't see it. As me scrolling past these illustrations of
Speaker 1: enemas over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love imagining the people sitting next to you, ye,
Speaker 2: like what is she doing working.
Speaker 1: On Probably no one even looked at all. But eventually,
Speaker 1: as with all things, of course, enema's fell out of
Speaker 1: style as patent medicines and no stroms took over things
Speaker 1: that you could swallow rather than having to administer through
Speaker 1: your butt. While the delivery system changed for a lot
Speaker 1: of these, like you know, detoxification purification recipes, the claims
Speaker 1: and vague medical language did not. Okay, so Brandreth's universal
Speaker 1: vegetable pills from the late eighteen hundreds asked, quote, what
Speaker 1: is it that causes this poor abject wretch, to look
Speaker 1: so downcast that eggs him to desperation, and that takes
Speaker 1: away all the joy and happiness of this life.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 1: The answer quote, In nine cases out of ten, it
Speaker 1: is simply the result of a disordered liver.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 9: These pills really the body reorder your liver, right, they reorder,
Speaker 9: so they rid the body of quote evil forces that
Speaker 9: might upset the digestion and render the blood impure.
Speaker 3: And can you remind me the year that was? The
Speaker 3: late eighteen hundreds, late eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they at that time this is interesting in
Speaker 2: the context of how our bodies actually detoxify. They were
Speaker 2: pinpointing the liver even all the way back then.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a good yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know when the functionality of the liver was clear, Okay,
Speaker 1: when people were working on.
Speaker 2: It, at least at that time, they were like, you
Speaker 2: need to purify your liver. We can with our product
Speaker 2: enhance the function of your liver.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: I love this, ye fun, but it also sounds like that.
Speaker 1: So I just read you that ad and you have
Speaker 1: that in your mind, and I'm going to read you
Speaker 1: and like the claims from a cleansed t from twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three.
Speaker 3: Yes, give it to me.
Speaker 1: Quote, had too much of a good thing, feeling out
Speaker 1: of balance, a bit heavy or puffy. Then it's time
Speaker 1: to get clean. The ingredients. Cleansing properties encourage healthy digestion
Speaker 1: and help to keep the kidneys flushed.
Speaker 7: End quote.
Speaker 4: It's the same.
Speaker 2: It's the exact same. We're gonna say kidneys this time.
Speaker 2: Liver's overdone.
Speaker 1: Now let's just get a little bit of a specific
Speaker 1: organ though in there, to kind of add some scientific credibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, So there's like the vague claims about toxins and
Speaker 1: or physiological upset check a promise that all parts of
Speaker 1: your life will improve if you just take this pill.
Speaker 4: Tea cleanse enema check check.
Speaker 1: No substantive information about active ingredients, mechanism, concentrations, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Checheck not subject to mandatory safety testing checheck. It's true
Speaker 1: that the twenty twenty three tea is required to disclose ingredients,
Speaker 1: unlike Brandreth's Universal Vegetable pills, but that tea does not
Speaker 1: have to state and basically undo today how much of
Speaker 1: each ingredient is present, or they don't. They also don't
Speaker 1: have to establish a safe limit for those ingredients.
Speaker 2: Nor do they have to provide any efficacy data whatsoever.
Speaker 3: Nope, none, none.
Speaker 1: Long story short, the detox tees and cleanse supplements of
Speaker 1: today are essentially the enemas of the past or vegetable
Speaker 1: pills of the past, just with updated language. It's less
Speaker 1: rid thyself of impurities and more flush out those yucky toxins.
Speaker 3: Oh, you're so puffy.
Speaker 1: By the end of the nineteenth century, this idea of
Speaker 1: toxins causing a vast array of diseases. It took on
Speaker 1: a more scientific tone as some physicians formed this idea
Speaker 1: or like formalized this idea autointoxication, which I referred to earlier,
Speaker 1: where it was believed that the bacteria in your retained
Speaker 1: poop led to a buildup of toxins and ultimately disease.
Speaker 1: So this kind of married this new concept of germ
Speaker 1: theory with the ancient, deeply held, old innate belief that
Speaker 1: poisonous substances from the food we eat, from the water
Speaker 1: we drink, from the air we breathe, even from within,
Speaker 1: are at the root of all of our illnesses. A
Speaker 1: leading proponent of autointoxication wrote in eighteen eighty seven quote.
Speaker 1: I have said that the organism in its normal as
Speaker 1: in its pathological state, is a receptacle and laboratory of poisons.
Speaker 1: Man is, in this way, constantly living under the chance
Speaker 1: of being poisoned. He is always working toward his own destruction.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting, Aaron, I know. I mean because it's
Speaker 2: not like wrong, like we are.
Speaker 3: We are constantly.
Speaker 2: Exposed to toxins. We are, and to toxic substances and
Speaker 2: to things that can cause cell damage, and so is
Speaker 2: every animal and living thing on the planet.
Speaker 1: And the thing is like autointoxication. It's it's not there
Speaker 1: are impurities. There are choices that we make that where
Speaker 1: we eat food that's not great for us, Ultra processed foods, right,
Speaker 1: cured meats not great for us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, alcohol, so yeah, tobacco.
Speaker 1: And yet the problem is not with those claims, but
Speaker 1: it is in saying that this pill, this supplement, this
Speaker 1: tea will fix that for you.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's like assuming that, like because oh I've
Speaker 2: found this thing, therefore our bodies are all broken, and.
Speaker 3: Like I will sell you the key.
Speaker 1: I h oh yeah yeah, Because it's like, well, what
Speaker 1: do you do about if autointoxication. If this idea that
Speaker 1: like our retained poop is causing all these toxins in.
Speaker 4: Our body, what do we do about it?
Speaker 1: Well, again, constipation is the issue, right, But what causes constipation?
Speaker 1: In the eyes of some leading autointoxication and proponents, it's
Speaker 1: the colon.
Speaker 4: So scientist, get rid of it? Yeah no, yeah, no.
Speaker 1: Mezhnikov who was like a very famous scientist, he claimed
Speaker 1: that the colon was a vestigial organ.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I found a paper by Kellogg, our fave in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventeen titled I love this. Should the colon be sacrificed
Speaker 1: or may it be reformed?
Speaker 3: Our holand ore colon colon?
Speaker 2: Oh ye, I know, so they're just wait a few
Speaker 2: weeks till our poop episode so you can understand how
Speaker 2: important your colon is the.
Speaker 4: Important VVB important.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So okay, remove it. That is one strategy.
Speaker 6: First.
Speaker 1: First though, maybe try some colonic irrigation animas it bring
Speaker 1: those back onto the scene. But if those didn't work,
Speaker 1: then yeah. Elective removals of the entirety or bits of
Speaker 1: the large intestine were done, and I don't know how
Speaker 1: many were done. But the collectom era quote unquote lasted
Speaker 1: about ten years, from say nineteen ten to nineteen twenty,
Speaker 1: nineteen oh seven to nineteen seventeen.
Speaker 2: Roughly that feels way too recent.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, but fortunately fell out of favor.
Speaker 1: People were like, even Kellogg was like, I think the
Speaker 1: colon can be reformed.
Speaker 4: I don't think we need to get rid of it.
Speaker 1: But the concept of detox or products or practices to
Speaker 1: eliminate impurities from your body, that was here to stay.
Speaker 1: In the nineteen forties, Stanley Burrows introduced the Master cleans
Speaker 1: you heard in our first hand account. It was a
Speaker 1: liquid only concoction of it, also known.
Speaker 4: As lemonade diet.
Speaker 1: I think lemon juice, maple syrup, water.
Speaker 4: Cayenne powder, you know, the famous sus A classic class.
Speaker 2: I feel like every few years it really makes it
Speaker 2: come back and everyone get it back into the Master
Speaker 2: Cleanse specifically yep, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because celebrities jump on train. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, so and so did this for this movie
Speaker 1: and lost twenty pounds in a week.
Speaker 2: Yeah they did. They starved themselves, starved themselves, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so this the Master Clean's promise. Not only detoxification,
Speaker 1: but also weight loss. So then weight loss kind of
Speaker 1: became wrapped up into this really starting in the late
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, but then in the twentieth century just increasingly,
Speaker 1: so okay, and the master cleans might have like really
Speaker 1: kicked off what our modern era of this is and
Speaker 1: really incorporated the dieting part of it. But they're sprang
Speaker 1: up throughout in the decades that followed, countless diets, tease,
Speaker 1: superfood supplements, regimens, programs, bracelets, accessories, procedures that promise to
Speaker 1: eliminate toxins from the body, thus bringing you a happier,
Speaker 1: healthier life. You yeah, I mean, it would take hours
Speaker 1: just to list the product names, let alone the baseless
Speaker 1: claims that they make. And I know that you'll explain
Speaker 1: why these claims are baseless. But to quote a paper
Speaker 1: I read about fad diets, quote, detox approaches defy the
Speaker 1: general principles of human physiology, as the liver and kidneys
Speaker 1: are quite efficient in removing both exogenous and endogenous toxins
Speaker 1: from our body, along with extra renal excretion of toxins
Speaker 1: and sebum and sweat end quote. Yet these products are
Speaker 1: ubiquitous and the industry is growing like never before. How why?
Speaker 1: I can't hope to answer that huge of a question,
Speaker 1: but I do think it has to do a great
Speaker 1: deal with how they're marketed.
Speaker 4: They start off.
Speaker 1: They all start off with this premise of fear or
Speaker 1: a lack. You are living in a risk filled, dangerous world.
Speaker 1: Everything around you, the food you eat, the liquids you drink,
Speaker 1: the air you breathe contains harmful substances that will accumulate
Speaker 1: in your body. You're missing something in your life and
Speaker 1: that's why you're unhappy. And then there's this sense of blame.
Speaker 1: If you didn't eat those foods, maybe you wouldn't feel
Speaker 1: so bad. But no one is exempt from this moralizing.
Speaker 1: Right next, they offer agency. These substances will continue to
Speaker 1: ferment in your body building and building until you act.
Speaker 1: Not only do you have the agency to do something
Speaker 1: about this with X product, but you will be foolish
Speaker 1: to let this opportunity go. You have a responsibility to
Speaker 1: yourself and not drinking this tea or committing to this
Speaker 1: diet would be a shameful act, not only to yourself
Speaker 1: but to your loved ones. You can and should make
Speaker 1: the right choice here. And then they promise the stars.
Speaker 1: If you follow this diet the precise way, this will happen.
Speaker 1: If it doesn't, it's because you have failed. You did
Speaker 1: not commit, you did this. There's I want to read
Speaker 1: you a quote from a Goop post titled does detoxing
Speaker 1: really work?
Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, kim me, let me prepare myself for this.
Speaker 4: Take a deep breath, cleansing breath again, here we go. Quote.
Speaker 1: We must turn this thinking around and adopt a detox
Speaker 1: lifestyle where we are living in a healthy and reasonable
Speaker 1: way most of the time, so that we are constantly
Speaker 1: detoxing because we are constantly exposed to unwanted chemicals, and
Speaker 1: save the binging for the bad stuff. Break down and
Speaker 1: have some yummy barbecue ribs and fries if you must,
Speaker 1: but make that the exception, or maybe a cheese platter
Speaker 1: is your big weakness, as long as it isn't a
Speaker 1: daily cheese platter.
Speaker 4: End quote.
Speaker 2: There's so much moralizing around food.
Speaker 4: Around food.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you must be constantly vigilant the danger that surrounds you,
Speaker 1: and if you aren't, you're a failure. There is no
Speaker 1: range of acceptable choices. There is one right answer. And
Speaker 1: this advertising strategy works so well because these companies convince us,
Speaker 1: they manipulate us into believing that we can optimize our life,
Speaker 1: that our lives are incomplete, But contentment is just around
Speaker 1: the corner for a mere nineteen ninety nine a month
Speaker 1: plus shipping and handling. And I'm not saying that people
Speaker 1: shouldn't want more, or shouldn't buy whatever things that they
Speaker 1: want to buy, or that they should just be, you
Speaker 1: know what, You should be happy with what you've got,
Speaker 1: like it is natural to want more, to want to
Speaker 1: be happier, to fill your things, fill your life with
Speaker 1: things that you know. That's all fine. What I'm saying
Speaker 1: is not about the wanting. My issue is with the
Speaker 1: companies that do such a great job of manipulating us
Speaker 1: into feeling that inadequacy, like detox tse promising to rid
Speaker 1: us of impurities, when our kidneys and livers are already.
Speaker 4: Doing a heck of a job.
Speaker 1: If we look back at the history of science and
Speaker 1: medicine in this country, we can see this really remarkable
Speaker 1: pattern where patent medicines and snake oil salesmen absolutely flourish
Speaker 1: in times of chaos and crisis, which feels, i mean,
Speaker 1: very much like what our world is going through.
Speaker 4: Right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it comes down feeling like there
Speaker 1: is so much out of your control that we want
Speaker 1: to make any changes that we can. We want to
Speaker 1: have whatever control we can, and so we can say
Speaker 1: I want to fix this one thing in my life
Speaker 1: because I can. This company is telling me that I can.
Speaker 1: So my hope for twenty twenty six is for us
Speaker 1: all to cling to reason, established expertise, and shift our skepticism,
Speaker 1: you know, to the brands making these sweeping claims without
Speaker 1: a shred of evidence. And I talked way too long, Aaron,
Speaker 1: because I got really into this episode.
Speaker 4: But I'll turn it over.
Speaker 1: To you to tell us what toxins actually are and
Speaker 1: how detoxification actually works within our bodies.
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to I'm so excited before we get
Speaker 2: deep into how our bodies detoxify quote unquote detoxify. I
Speaker 2: do want to focus for a second on this idea
Speaker 2: of toxins, because, yeah, I think that this word it
Speaker 2: comes up so much in like these disinformation campaigns that
Speaker 2: people love to run, and it's far more reaching than
Speaker 2: just the idea of detox But let's get into it,
Speaker 2: shall we. We've talked on this podcast so many times
Speaker 2: about how the dose makes the poison.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Essentially, any substance that exists can be harmful to
Speaker 2: our bodies and to our cells at a cellular level,
Speaker 2: dependent on the dose. There are some things like water,
Speaker 2: which is essential for life, that is beneficial at most doses,
Speaker 2: but still can cause harm if in excess, yep. And
Speaker 2: there are other things like arsenic or mercury that are
Speaker 2: incredibly harmful even in very small doses.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And those are the kinds of substances that we usually
Speaker 2: think of as toxic, right, These are substances that, even
Speaker 2: at small doses, are harmful to ourselves. If you really
Speaker 2: want to get pedantic, and you know that I love too,
Speaker 2: love it. Technically, a toxin means a biologically produced substance.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: So technically the word toxin is only referring to things
Speaker 2: that are from plants or animals or bacteria. It has
Speaker 2: to be biologically produced. And if we're talking about substances
Speaker 2: that cause harm that are toxic that are maybe metals.
Speaker 7: Like mercury, yeah, arsic whatever, arsenic, or things that are
Speaker 7: like drugs, phosphates like stuff that we are making, those
Speaker 7: technically aren't toxins.
Speaker 2: The correct term would be toxic kant or just like
Speaker 2: toxic substance. Okay, I love that I got to teach
Speaker 2: that to you because I felt like I was getting
Speaker 2: really too much.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is pedantic, but I appreciate the designation.
Speaker 4: I can appreciate when you are pagantic. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like in common parlance, obviously we use the word toxic.
Speaker 2: We use the word toxin to refer to a lot
Speaker 2: of different things. But I do feel like just knowing
Speaker 2: that helps you be a little bit more alert, Like
Speaker 2: are people even using these words correctly? If you're saying toxin,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: But how are substances that are harmful to our cells?
Speaker 2: That are toxic substances? How do they cause damage? They
Speaker 2: can do this in so many different ways. Some substances might,
Speaker 2: as we break them down, generate free radicals, right, which
Speaker 2: can cause damage to our cells via oxidative DAMA image.
Speaker 2: Some substances might end up depleting our cells ability to
Speaker 2: metabolize things like we talked about in alcohol metabolism. Other
Speaker 2: substances just might straight up damage cells. They might induce
Speaker 2: cell death. There's a lot of different ways that so
Speaker 2: many things that we come into contact with every day.
Speaker 2: Be there medicines, drugs, heavy metals, pesticides, organic or inorganic pollutants,
Speaker 2: things that we eat in our foods because plants are
Speaker 2: full of toxins or toxic substances, secondary metabolites that they
Speaker 2: make in order to we think, largely escape predation from herbivores.
Speaker 3: Right, we are.
Speaker 2: Exposed to toxic substances all the time. So we have
Speaker 2: evolved mechanisms to deal with toxic metabolites in our bodies.
Speaker 2: We have evolutionarily, all animals have these mechanisms. So this
Speaker 2: idea of quote unquote or so called detoxification is real
Speaker 2: insofar as our body does in fact have to manage
Speaker 2: and deal with toxic substances on a cellular level. All
Speaker 2: of our cells have to deal with this, and like
Speaker 2: sell by cell, we have detoxification mechanisms that I'm not
Speaker 2: going to dig deep into because the superstars in our
Speaker 2: body when it comes to like body system level clearance
Speaker 2: of these toxic substances are our liver and our kidneys
Speaker 2: and also our GI tract, which I don't think it's
Speaker 2: enough credit in this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, we can give some credit. We'll give some credit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I want to real quick also mention that
Speaker 2: I do think that some of the reason that we like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go through the steps of how our
Speaker 2: liver and kidneys actually process these toxic substances. What does
Speaker 2: dtox mean in our bodies?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: But I think that some of the reason that we
Speaker 2: use the word detox to mean a lot of other things,
Speaker 2: like sometimes we use detox colloquially to mean like we're
Speaker 2: abstaining from like digital detox. Yes, that just means I'm
Speaker 2: not doing technology for a while, right. I think that
Speaker 2: maybe comes from the fact that we use the word
Speaker 2: detox or detoxification in medicine clinically also to mean weaning
Speaker 2: somebody off of a substance on which they're dependent. So
Speaker 2: that's like alcohol or opioid detox something like that. That
Speaker 2: process is about abstaining from a substance and waiting as
Speaker 2: your own body metabolizes that substance, and sometimes might require
Speaker 2: additional medications or things to like monitoring to make sure
Speaker 2: that it's a safe process. But I think that maybe
Speaker 2: that version of detox, like alcohol detox, that kind of
Speaker 2: a thing might be part of why we think of
Speaker 2: this as just like, oh, a quote unquote cleanse I
Speaker 2: don't know. M yeah, like it's but it's a different
Speaker 2: I'm gonna not talk about that. I'm talking about what
Speaker 2: is our body doing to deal with toxic stuff?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: So our liver, I said, does most of the detox
Speaker 2: of most potentially harmful substances, and it does this in
Speaker 2: three main phases metabolism, conjugation, and elimination. Not every substance
Speaker 2: has to go through each of these. So we'll talk
Speaker 2: at the end about like other ways to rid the
Speaker 2: body of toxic substances. But first we metabolize things, so
Speaker 2: that means that we break substances down into smaller pieces,
Speaker 2: or we break them down in ways that hopefully makes
Speaker 2: them less toxic. Much of this process happens with a
Speaker 2: group of enzymes called our cytochrome P four fifties.
Speaker 4: Should I know this or no?
Speaker 2: But I just love I love cytochromes so much. But
Speaker 2: these are a group of enzymes. There's like six, There's
Speaker 2: tons of them, but there's six major ones that are
Speaker 2: responsible for the breakdown or the detoxification of nearly all
Speaker 2: of the drugs and stuff that we are putting into
Speaker 2: our body. Like the drugs, the foods, like anything that
Speaker 2: is producing potentially toxic substances. So called zenobiotics is like
Speaker 2: an umbrella term for a lot of this stuff. Most
Speaker 2: of them are broken down phase one by a group
Speaker 2: of enzymes called these cytochrome P four fifties, but there
Speaker 2: are a bunch of other enzymes that are involved in
Speaker 2: this this process. The goal is to break things down
Speaker 2: to be less toxic. Sometimes though it actually creates more
Speaker 2: harmful substances. As we talked about in our alcohol episode,
Speaker 2: the breakdown process of alcohol, how we add a wage
Speaker 2: groups to it and break other things off, actually produces
Speaker 2: things like reactive oxygen species that can end up causing
Speaker 2: damage to ourselves. But that's why phase one is not
Speaker 2: the end. The second step in this detoxification process is
Speaker 2: called conjugation, which just means sticking things on. So this
Speaker 2: means literally sticking on other compounds to the stuff we've
Speaker 2: just broken down, specifically to make them more water soluble.
Speaker 2: So it turns out that a lot of the toxic
Speaker 2: stuff that we might be exposed to or ingesting is
Speaker 2: what's called lipophilic, so it's attracted to fats, and just
Speaker 2: like water and oil, don't mix in your salad dressing
Speaker 2: unless you have an emulsifier in there. Our liver has
Speaker 2: a whole system of other enzymes that help to emulsify
Speaker 2: these toxic things in our bloodstream. That's not a great
Speaker 2: analogy because it's not quite emulsification, but you can think.
Speaker 4: Of imagine just like what the liver is doing, like
Speaker 4: shake it up.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's just adding things to it, right, You got
Speaker 2: to add something to make them more water soluble. So
Speaker 2: that allows for these fat soluble compounds that would otherwise
Speaker 2: stick around in our bodies to be disi so that
Speaker 2: we can peet or poop them out. And that's the
Speaker 2: final phase or this third phase of detoxification, which is elimination. Elimination,
Speaker 2: so most of the stuff that we make water soluble
Speaker 2: will end up passing through our kidneys. And our kidneys
Speaker 2: they also do some detox on their own, but they
Speaker 2: are the big important part of our system, of our
Speaker 2: body system that is excreting all of these metabolites that
Speaker 2: our liver does the good job of breaking down right
Speaker 2: right exactly, yeah, getting it out. The other big player
Speaker 2: is our billiary system old friend of the pod that's
Speaker 2: our liver, our gallbladder, etc.
Speaker 4: Yes, Yes, good friend.
Speaker 2: And that means that as this stuff gets broken down,
Speaker 2: sometimes instead of going to our kidneys, we squeeze it
Speaker 2: into our gallbladder and push it out with our bio
Speaker 2: and then eventually we poop it out. Okay, that's how
Speaker 2: we detox sometimes phase one, two, and three detoxification doesn't
Speaker 2: work for every substance, right. For some things, elimination might
Speaker 2: not be possible. We might not have a mechanism for that,
Speaker 2: like we see with iron for example. So with some
Speaker 2: substances like heavy metals, our liver again has enzymes and
Speaker 2: mechanisms to bind things up so that they are in
Speaker 2: a form that they're not causing any damage. So iron,
Speaker 2: if we're using that as an example, gets bound to
Speaker 2: a protein called ferretin, and that way it's not just
Speaker 2: roaming around causing free radical damage. It's bound up in
Speaker 2: a protein and therefore not causing harm. Hmm.
Speaker 4: That's very interesting.
Speaker 1: I so of just like thinking about the evolutionary pathway
Speaker 1: that had to have, Like, I would love to get
Speaker 1: some sort of comparative physiology going on here.
Speaker 2: I found it interesting paper that was more focused, and
Speaker 2: I didn't end up citing it because I didn't use
Speaker 2: a lot of this. But there they were looking at
Speaker 2: like plants secondary metabolites and herbivores and like the detoxification
Speaker 2: pathways and things like that in these herbivores. To deal
Speaker 2: with these plant secondary metabolites and stuff, it's super interesting,
Speaker 2: Like we all have to deal with.
Speaker 1: This right well, and then like you think about herbivores
Speaker 1: and then what if there's like a carnivore that's an
Speaker 1: eating the herbivore that has that has those mechanisms, But
Speaker 1: then what if the mechanisms haven't taken care of that
Speaker 1: poison yet, and then the toxin and then.
Speaker 2: And if your carnivore doesn't have those same mechanisms. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's a lot, and carnivores tend to have less. Anyways,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get deep. They didn't read enough
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 4: Don't quote me, okay.
Speaker 2: But similarly, sometimes we just have to if there's a
Speaker 2: lot of reactive oxygen species, which is.
Speaker 3: A common, common, common, common.
Speaker 2: Cause of damage to ourselves that may be produced in
Speaker 2: so many different ways and just during normal metabolism, sometimes
Speaker 2: we just have to neutralize those. And we're not doing
Speaker 2: this whole phase one, two and three. We have other ways,
Speaker 2: whether it's enzymes or just chemical antioxidants that are binding
Speaker 2: up these and blocking them essentially so that they're not
Speaker 2: going out and causing damage. Finally, there's increasing evidence of
Speaker 2: the role of our gut micro biome in the detoxification
Speaker 2: process in mammals in general. I mean, we don't know,
Speaker 2: we don't fully understand it, but microbes also have to detoxify,
Speaker 2: and they have similar but usually different enzymatic processes to
Speaker 2: what we see in our own livers and kidneys. So
Speaker 2: they're not using the exact same enzymes, okay, but they
Speaker 2: are still doing the same stuff, if that makes sense,
Speaker 2: just in different ways. So, yeah, we're doing detox all
Speaker 2: the time, and it is our liver and our kidneys
Speaker 2: and our guts that are doing it. And this is
Speaker 2: a complicated process, all right.
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds quite a lot of players involved.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of players, a lot of steps.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'll also just throw out there that there is
Speaker 2: known genetic variation in our metabolism in terms of a
Speaker 2: lot of these cytochromes especially, but also some of the
Speaker 2: like phase two metabolism stuff, which means that some people
Speaker 2: might be faster metabolizers, some people might have a build
Speaker 2: up of toxic substances longer than other people. So there
Speaker 2: is a lot of really interesting research being done on that,
Speaker 2: especially for people who are really into like the idea
Speaker 2: of personalized medicine, where if we know how you are
Speaker 2: going to metabolize X, Y and Z, then we might
Speaker 2: recommend one drug versus another, or you might need a
Speaker 2: higher or a lower dose of something, And so I
Speaker 2: think that's an interesting area of future research. But right now,
Speaker 2: for very few things do we have like you need
Speaker 2: a genetic test before X, Y and Z medicine. There
Speaker 2: are some medicines that like we have to do a
Speaker 2: genetic test because we know that you're going to metabolize
Speaker 2: it differently if you have one gene versus another.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, that is such a fascinating world of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: personalized medicine, like what exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's a different episode here.
Speaker 3: So that's the end of that.
Speaker 2: So I want to answer the question of whether any
Speaker 2: product that claims to detoxify you can actually do it.
Speaker 2: And hopefully if you've heard all of the steps that
Speaker 2: it takes to deal with toxic substances in your body,
Speaker 2: it is very clear that the answer is no. There
Speaker 2: is no single product, food, supplement, topical administration of anything
Speaker 2: that you can do that will detox for you. Your
Speaker 2: body has to do that. However, companies are smart now,
Speaker 2: as we heard in those things, So the next thing
Speaker 2: that they love to do is claim that their product
Speaker 2: supports your own detoxification mechanisms.
Speaker 1: Oh, Aaron Eims, I hate it so much. I cannot
Speaker 1: stand seeing that on supplement bottles.
Speaker 2: Or liver serials, kidney support supports heart health supports kidney
Speaker 2: function exactly. So is there any data to support this idea?
Speaker 2: There is no good data to support not just any
Speaker 2: particular detox diet or supplement or fasting protocol, but even
Speaker 2: there is no data to support the idea of detox
Speaker 2: diets on a broad scale. Right, And let me tell
Speaker 2: you why I want to dig a little deeper onto
Speaker 2: why that is that that we don't have data to
Speaker 2: support this.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: First, our bodies are complicated. The types of toxic substances
Speaker 2: that we encounter are really varied. So there's two main
Speaker 2: questions that we have to answer that have not been
Speaker 2: answered to be able to say that any of these
Speaker 2: products work.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: First, can anything that you ingest actually change or so
Speaker 2: called support your body's own detoxification mechanisms broadly.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to get into that.
Speaker 2: Okay, is there anything that we can be ingesting.
Speaker 3: That would actually support our liver health? Okay, probiotics listen.
Speaker 2: And two, what the heck are we trying to detox from?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: I mean everything, Aaron. The world is a dangerous place,
Speaker 4: and also what it is it is.
Speaker 2: But you got to be specific. What are we being
Speaker 2: exposed to and at what levels? And are these things
Speaker 2: harmful at the levels at which we are being exposed?
Speaker 2: So let me dig into the evidence on these two points.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but you just said you got to be specific.
Speaker 4: No one is specific.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, No one has to be specific. No,
Speaker 3: I know, but the beauty should be.
Speaker 2: So to get at question number one, is there anything
Speaker 2: that we could be eating that could be helping our
Speaker 2: kidneys or our liver be better at detoxifying.
Speaker 1: All the foods that have antioxidants in them, like slupberries
Speaker 1: and superfoods.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing, Arin, there is certainly data out
Speaker 2: there that there are certain foods or certain chemical compounds
Speaker 2: if you want to dig really deep down in our foods,
Speaker 2: like antioxidants like various vitamins that may help or in
Speaker 2: some cases even be essential in our bodies detoxification processes.
Speaker 2: Some of these substances might be necessary cofactors in some
Speaker 2: of these enzymatic reactions. They may function as antioxidants themselves
Speaker 2: be protective in our bodies against reactive oxygen. There is
Speaker 2: definitely data that there are compounds in especially our fruits
Speaker 2: and our vegetables, that are beneficial for our bodies. However,
Speaker 2: almost all of the data on these substances is in
Speaker 2: cell culture or animal studies, not in clinical trials, especially
Speaker 2: if we are trying to say do these substances help
Speaker 2: support detoxification mechanisms these enzymes that we know are involved
Speaker 2: in detox right, these data that we have on this
Speaker 2: is not in human trials.
Speaker 1: Okay, so but let's just like pause there, and I
Speaker 1: want to try to understand physiologically the mechanism that jumping
Speaker 1: from extrapolating from lab and animal studies to humans. Like
Speaker 1: you said that some of the products that are contained
Speaker 1: or the cofactors and vitamins and fruits and vegets and
Speaker 1: so on, are essential for us, are we getting enough
Speaker 1: on a daily basis.
Speaker 3: With it depends on what you're eating erin.
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know, but like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Have we talked about like vitamin C and scurvy, right,
Speaker 1: and like the vast majority of people.
Speaker 4: Get vitamin C.
Speaker 2: You get plenty of vitamin C. So yeah, the same
Speaker 2: is true for most of the other stuff, okay, Right,
Speaker 2: And it is important to note, like you're saying that
Speaker 2: the post makes the poison even for these beneficial substances,
Speaker 2: because there are some compounds that we found in plants,
Speaker 2: in vegetables and fruits that might help induce detoxification enzymes,
Speaker 2: so it might help them to work better at one
Speaker 2: concentration but inhibit them completely at other concentrations.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So the short answer then is like, no, there's no
Speaker 2: one thing. There's no one magic pill, there is no
Speaker 2: one supplement. And it's very interesting that because I read
Speaker 2: a couple of papers that were written by people who
Speaker 2: have their own like detox clinics okay as an example, Okay,
Speaker 2: and I could quote from them.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking detox clinics as in like what
Speaker 1: we've been talking about these past two episodes, not detox
Speaker 1: clinics and a clinics correct.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about detoxification lifestyle programs, got it. Got it
Speaker 2: that they will sell you that you can go to
Speaker 2: their clinic to learn how to do. But even in
Speaker 2: those and I won't actually quote because it's like way too.
Speaker 3: Long, but.
Speaker 2: All of those papers come to the conclusion that is
Speaker 2: the exact same conclusion as every major medical and public
Speaker 2: health organization that has ever come up with dietary recommendations,
Speaker 2: and that is that to support your bodies intrinsic detoxification processes,
Speaker 2: our diets should be composed of a variety of whole
Speaker 2: fruits and vegetables. Whole grains should be mostly based on plants.
Speaker 2: We should get a variety of proteins, make sure we're
Speaker 2: getting lots of fiber, drinking mostly only water and not
Speaker 2: other beverages, avoiding alcohol, having access to clean water that's
Speaker 2: uncontaminated by heavy metals, and being engaged in moderate activity
Speaker 2: and exercise. Like it is mind blowing to me that
Speaker 2: even people who are selling this stuff know that there
Speaker 2: is not one thing that we can pick out of
Speaker 2: a plant that is ever going to be better than
Speaker 2: whole plants themselves. Right, Yeah, it's but they'll still sell Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course they are, because it doesn't matter like that,
Speaker 2: The science behind it doesn't matter, except the science is
Speaker 2: used is to sell information.
Speaker 4: Correct is misused?
Speaker 3: Is correct weaponized? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: And the other way that it's weaponized and misused is
Speaker 2: in this idea of that second question, like, do we
Speaker 2: have any evidence that we actually need detoxification support?
Speaker 3: Are we being.
Speaker 2: Exposed to such high levels of so called toxic substances
Speaker 2: that we need this over the counter keelation therapy? Those
Speaker 2: are very dangerous, by the way, It definitely not a
Speaker 2: good idea. But if you are exposed to high levels
Speaker 2: of heavy metals like lead or mercury at a level
Speaker 2: that can cause harm, then yes, you will need treatment
Speaker 2: because your liver and your body might not be sufficient
Speaker 2: or fast enough to get rid of these compounds before
Speaker 2: they're causing harm. That is why we have medications that
Speaker 2: have to be administered under strict supervision because they are
Speaker 2: also dangerous. Medicines to be able to bind up things
Speaker 2: like heavy metals and rid our body of them, allow
Speaker 2: us to poop them out because we use things like
Speaker 2: healation therapy. There are definitely things that we are being
Speaker 2: exposed to in our modern world today. That we maybe
Speaker 2: weren't exposed to hundreds or definitely not thousands of years ago.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: There are also things that we were exposed to a
Speaker 2: lot more that we're not exposed to as much today. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it is true that we still don't know enough
Speaker 2: about what should be considered maximum safe exposure levels of
Speaker 2: things like persistent organic pollutants like we see in pesticides,
Speaker 2: or things like BPA or other palites that.
Speaker 3: Are in plastics.
Speaker 2: And there is a lot of news, of course out
Speaker 2: there about forever chemicals in general, and we don't have
Speaker 2: enough data about them.
Speaker 1: It's true, yes, and there is Like I feel like
Speaker 1: we are living in a world that is full of
Speaker 1: things that can harm us, but we don't, like you said,
Speaker 1: we don't know enough about how.
Speaker 4: Much of it.
Speaker 1: We all live very very very different lives, even if
Speaker 1: you're living on the same street as somebody else, how
Speaker 1: much you're getting exposed to your your genetic predisposition, to
Speaker 1: how fast you metabolize certain toxins, like, all of these
Speaker 1: things are very variable. Yeah, that can all be very true,
Speaker 1: and it is.
Speaker 2: And it is, And there are plenty of companies that
Speaker 2: are claiming that their product will detox you from these compounds,
Speaker 2: be they heavy metals or other environmental pollutants, even if
Speaker 2: you have no data to suggest that you have actually
Speaker 2: been exposed to levels high enough to cause harm, because
Speaker 2: especially for heavy metals, like we actually do have data
Speaker 2: on that, like how much is going to cause harm?
Speaker 2: There is no data that any of these products that
Speaker 2: are claiming to detox you from these substances will do
Speaker 2: anything for you. And in many cases recipes or exactly
Speaker 2: and in many cases they can cause serious harm, especially
Speaker 2: the ones that are targeted like that, like ooh, you
Speaker 2: need a heavy metal detox, you need a parasite cleanse.
Speaker 2: Those often end up damaging your liver. And like the
Speaker 2: over the counterculation therapies and things that they market, they
Speaker 2: can a bind up other metals that are actually quite
Speaker 2: important in our body in trace amounts, so then they
Speaker 2: can make you be deficient in zinc or copper or
Speaker 2: things like that. And they can also end up binding calcium,
Speaker 2: so then you can be severely hypocalcemic and then you
Speaker 2: can die. Like it's not these things are not without
Speaker 2: the potential for harm. So like, yes, we need to
Speaker 2: be ensuring that our regulatory agencies and our scientific research
Speaker 2: agencies are doing the research and asking the right questions,
Speaker 2: especially about these chemicals that we are being exposed to
Speaker 2: at what levels of exposures do we have the potential
Speaker 2: to cause harm in the short term and the long term,
Speaker 2: and also the research on in the event that we
Speaker 2: are being exposed to high levels, what are additional treatment
Speaker 2: options we should be looking into these things that are
Speaker 2: in our natural products, what things can support detoxification or
Speaker 2: elimination if someone is actually exposed to high enough levels
Speaker 2: to cause harm. None of these products or diets or
Speaker 2: fads that are on the shelves have any data to
Speaker 2: back them up.
Speaker 1: And they continue to so mistrust in establish science and
Speaker 1: medicine by saying germ theory isn't real. Buy my book
Speaker 1: on the Master Cleanse instead.
Speaker 2: I think, honestly, for me, if I just can complain
Speaker 2: for a moment.
Speaker 4: That's what we've been doing for the past hour.
Speaker 3: And as I know, for me, I think one of
Speaker 3: the things there's a lot.
Speaker 2: That gets to me about this detox trend in general,
Speaker 2: and it's not just the clear grift that the supplement
Speaker 2: companies or other organizations claiming to detox are running. It's
Speaker 2: not just that like they're counting on and they're preying
Speaker 2: on our lack of understanding about biology. It's not just
Speaker 2: those things for me, it's also so frustrating that these
Speaker 2: detox products push this notion that our bodies are broken
Speaker 2: and we need their products to fix them, because our
Speaker 2: bodies are dang incredible, Like our kidneys and our liver
Speaker 2: are working so.
Speaker 3: Hard every day.
Speaker 2: They never get appreciation, and to be told that a
Speaker 2: tea can do their job is offensive.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's there's just like there is so much
Speaker 1: that is upsetting about it, because it's like every single
Speaker 1: product is telling you that this is going to change
Speaker 1: your life for the better. This is the thing that
Speaker 1: you need that will make your life happy. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's not the case, and it just is like it
Speaker 1: just kind of feels gross. I know, I feel toxified
Speaker 1: by detox advertisements.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree the end. Darren Sources, yep, I have
Speaker 2: so many sources I love about enemas and beyond.
Speaker 4: I have a lot.
Speaker 1: There's a two parter I read by Friedenwald and Morrison.
Speaker 1: They're both published in nineteen forty, The History of the Enema.
Speaker 4: It's a two parter of it.
Speaker 1: And then there's a paper that I really enjoyed by
Speaker 1: Baki from twenty twenty five called the Eternal Allure of
Speaker 1: the Panacea, How narratives and biases sustained Panaceas and then
Speaker 1: by This is one of my favorite papers I've read recently.
Speaker 4: It was Everyone Should Go.
Speaker 1: It's by Everheart, published in twenty twenty two, titled you
Speaker 1: Probably Have a Parasite Neoliberal Risk and the Discursive Construction
Speaker 1: of the Body in the Wellness Industry.
Speaker 4: Absolutely fascinating. I love that fascinating.
Speaker 3: I'm going to read it.
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know that my papers are quite that amazing,
Speaker 2: But the biggest bummer for me it was hard to
Speaker 2: find more up to date studies. So the two best
Speaker 2: ones that I found that were really like overviews of
Speaker 2: especially those the detox diets and the detox pathways and things.
Speaker 2: The two best papers I found were both from twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: One was by Hodges and Miniche and it was titled
Speaker 2: Modulation of Metabolic Detoxification Pathways using Foods and food derived Components.
Speaker 2: A Scientific Review with Clinical Application, and the other one
Speaker 2: was by Klein and Kiat, also twenty fifteen, Detox Diets
Speaker 2: for Toxin Elimination and weight management, a critical review of
Speaker 2: the evidence. There was one other one from twenty seventeen
Speaker 2: that was really more focused on weight loss strategies, but
Speaker 2: they had a little bit about detox but there wasn't
Speaker 2: a lot of updated ones. I also had a few
Speaker 2: different papers that go way more deep dive if you
Speaker 2: want it, on hipatosite detoxification and like detoxification pathways in
Speaker 2: the liver. So there's a paper from nineteen ninety one
Speaker 2: and a book chapter from twenty eighteen, and then I
Speaker 2: have more, like I said, including ones that were written
Speaker 2: by people who are huge opponents of the idea of detoxification.
Speaker 2: So you can find them all on our website this
Speaker 2: podcast will Kill You dot com.
Speaker 1: You can big thank you to Bloodmobile for providing the
Speaker 1: music for this episode in all of our episodes.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Leana SQUWATCHI and Tom Briifogel and Pete
Speaker 2: I really don't know everyone's last name, Pete and Brenda,
Speaker 2: Jessica and everyone that makes this possible.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, thank you, and thank you to you
Speaker 1: listeners and watchers.
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