1 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, Luck and load. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: From Michael Very Show is on the air. It's Charlie 3 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 2: from BlackBerry Smoke. I could feel a good when coming on. 4 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: It's the Michael Berry Show. 5 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 3: Any attempt to restrict drinking and driving? 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 4: Here is our guest is a professor at the University 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 4: of South Florida. He wrote a piece recently, a paper 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 4: entitled Evolutionary Psychology and the Crisis of empirical rigor in 9 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 4: Feminist study. In other words, how did we get to 10 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 4: the point that these people, in the name of feminism 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 4: are defying biology beating up on boys. I would argue 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 4: feminizing boys and not using any science to get there. Well, 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 4: that's what he's trying to lay out and discuss. It 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 4: happens to be in port. You can see that this 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 4: social issue is one of the issues of our day 16 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 4: in the way that in the past we would have 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 4: dealt with others and they marked the zeit. Guys, this 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 4: is what we're talking about all day, every day. Professor 19 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 4: Martin Defant, you note that you drew on research in 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 4: evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and behavioral biology examining topics such as 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 4: the gender pay gap let's talk about that. 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 5: Okay, if I could just follow up real quickly, this 23 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 5: is the things you're saying is it's precisely why feminists 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 5: are so against evolutionary psychology, because if it's not evolutionary 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 5: psychology and it's due to culture, then they can change men. 26 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 5: They can also say that men and women are equal, 27 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 5: so you can make movies where you see a woman 28 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 5: beating up to ten guys. It's absolutely gotten insane. And 29 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 5: many studies show, as you mentioned, the difference is between 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 5: boys and girls. Right from the start, boys and girls 31 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 5: are different, and study after study shows that many done 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 5: by women. Okay, let's get into the pay gap, because 33 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 5: I think you know that's going to open up some 34 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 5: interesting discussion. I think the first thing I should say 35 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 5: is when I started to study the pay gap, I 36 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 5: went to economics research, much of it being done by women, 37 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 5: good examples of Claudia Golden at Harvard University, and they 38 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 5: were showing I mean, it's almost shocking how different the 39 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 5: economic research is from what feminists are saying. The economic 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 5: research is telling us that the pay gap is due 41 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 5: to women's choice. Basically, women tend to be risk adverse, 42 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 5: they tend to be looking for jobs that give them 43 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 5: freedom to raise children. They also tend to like to 44 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 5: take off time in their career to raise children. So 45 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 5: we have a pay gap developing not because a bunch 46 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 5: of men out there are pressing women through discrimination. Primarily 47 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 5: according to these economists, that they are basically women, that is, 48 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 5: are choosing to work in fields caregiving fields like education, 49 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 5: like social work like nursing, and other medical care. Whereas 50 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 5: men tend to like risk, they go out and get 51 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 5: into these high risk, high reward performance They work fifty 52 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 5: sixty hours a week, and oftentimes women are raising the 53 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 5: children that help them do well in their jobs. So 54 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 5: it's a nice synergy between men and women there if 55 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 5: it works correctly women And I don't want to say 56 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 5: all women in this way. I want to say all 57 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 5: men are this way. But I'm just saying what the 58 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 5: biology is telling us and what the economists are telling us, 59 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 5: and the gender payback gap. The best scenario I can 60 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 5: give you here to summarize is that the gender pay 61 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 5: gap is not due to discrimination. It may have been 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 5: partly due to discrimination decades ago, but certainly today is not. 63 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 5: It is due to female choice. 64 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 4: Once again, Yes, and we can when we consider that 65 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 4: the various roles that people play, you know, dangerous jobs 66 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 4: often have higher pay attendant, and women choose not to 67 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 4: engage in dangerous jobs, for instance, the patriarchy. You said, 68 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 4: drawing on research in these these various forms of biology, 69 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 4: I examined topics such as the patriarchy and rape theory 70 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 4: through an evidence based lens. Talk about what rape theory 71 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 4: is and what you came to learn about. 72 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 5: This, Well, well, I want to I want to be 73 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 5: careful here because it's a sensitive subject, but I do 74 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 5: I got into rape theory because there's this attitude in 75 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 5: feminist studies that rape is and I still can hardly 76 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 5: believe that that feminists believe this at one time and 77 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 5: still do to some extent. When they're saying that rape 78 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 5: is basically men colluding to oppress women with fear at 79 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 5: about rape, I don't think anything could could be further 80 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 5: from the truth. In fact, I got a well I 81 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: can read it later, but one of the top feminists 82 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 5: in this field claimed that men use rape to subjugate women. 83 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 5: And when you start looking at who rapes and why 84 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 5: they rape, it turns out to be a whole different 85 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 5: story from and you can see why I'm worried about 86 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 5: the rigor and feminist studies when they seem to be 87 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 5: in this echo chamber where they get a good idea 88 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 5: what they think it's a good idea, and then everybody 89 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 5: just expounds on that and nobody goes into the lab 90 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: to test what they're saying. And that's where I have 91 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 5: the real problem. Let's go back to rape, though. Rape. 92 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 5: Rape has some interesting characteristics. For one thing, men rape 93 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 5: women not in their eighties or sixties or fifties. They 94 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 5: rape women in the peak of their fertility, in their 95 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 5: late teens and twenties. And so that should tell us 96 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 5: right there that rape has little to do with oppression. 97 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 5: If men were trying to oppress women through fear, seems 98 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 5: like we would rape all kinds of women, not just 99 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 5: women that are attractive and at a very fertile age. Now, 100 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 5: most evolutionary psychologists believe that it's not an evolutionary adaption. 101 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 5: It's a byproduct of our evolution in hunter gathered society. 102 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 5: My disagreement is not that it's not evolution. My disagreement 103 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 5: is that they're saying that it's a bunch of men 104 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 5: trying to outpress women and the data just simply isn't 105 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 5: telling us that at all. 106 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 4: Professor Martin Defunt, let me ask you. I have found, 107 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 4: at least anecdotally, that a number of feminists, particularly feminist academics, 108 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: are lesbian, and I suspect that informs some of their 109 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 4: opinions toward men, particularly because the path to a full 110 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: blown lesbian often starts as not realizing their lesbian young 111 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 4: in life and maybe having unpleasant experiences due to that, 112 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 4: and later. I'm not saying they become lesbians because men 113 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: are asses to them. I'm saying they were lesbian or 114 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 4: had tendencies, and they did not have a functional relationship 115 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: with a male, and they had a bad experience, and 116 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 4: out of that bad experience they developed they developed, perhaps 117 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: opinions of men that are not entirely healthy, and so 118 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 4: that informs, if not fully motivates their writing, which becomes 119 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 4: almost this the opposite of misogyny, this man hating. Professor 120 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: Martin Defant is our guest. Will continue our conversation and 121 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 4: ask him. 122 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: pSer to that you've got the Michael Berrys Show. 123 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 4: Professor Mark Dafont of the University of South Florida is 124 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 4: our guest. He's written a piece called Evolutionary Psychology and 125 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 4: the Crisis of empirical rigor in feminist studies? In other words, 126 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,719 Speaker 4: how did we end up to the point that feminists 127 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 4: on campuses, for instance, and in writing and scholarship and 128 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 4: in speeches, this feminism wildfire that has that has spread 129 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 4: across the country. He says, it lacks the traditional underpinnings 130 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 4: of science, the imperial rigor that asking tough questions, debating things, 131 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 4: studying things, studying data and analysis. You can't have your 132 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 4: own facts, you can have your own opinions about your 133 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 4: own facts. And I have asked them the question, to 134 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 4: what extent are lesbian academics who are angry at men 135 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: leading this charge? 136 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 5: Well, I'm already catching a lot of the wrath from 137 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 5: my publication, so I want to be careful here not 138 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 5: to generalize. It would be I haven't read any articles 139 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 5: on how many women are lesbians in feminist studies, although 140 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 5: like you, I have noticed that there are some, if 141 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 5: not the majority, And I think that this does you 142 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 5: in your observation. It would tend to skew in terms 143 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 5: of working. I think I think the woman's movement, which 144 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 5: I consider very different than the feminist movement. The women's 145 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 5: movement has had a very positive effect. I think on 146 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 5: women it's you know, if they want to leave the 147 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 5: house and work, you know, that's great. But where I 148 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 5: think feminists may abscuted it is they seem to be 149 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 5: interested only in working women and not women who choose 150 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 5: to stay home and raise children. And I oppose that 151 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 5: kind of view. I think we should be open to 152 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 5: both kinds of behaviors. And it may be, and I 153 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 5: don't know this for certain, but it may be due 154 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 5: to the fact that there are many lesbians who do 155 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 5: not have children that populate women's studies programs. It's something 156 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 5: I don't have any data on, but it wouldn't surprise me. 157 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 5: Does that make sense? 158 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 4: It does, and delicately, answered Professor Martin Defont is our guest. 159 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 4: Let me go back into some of the things. 160 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: That you. 161 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: Described in your piece. You said I examined topics such 162 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 4: as the gender paid gap, patriarchy in rape theory. I 163 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 4: think I've glossed over patriarchy. First of all, I'm not 164 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 4: sure that patriarchy in and of itself is necessarily a 165 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:23,599 Speaker 4: bad thing. Throughout history, there is typically a hierarchical relationship 166 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 4: to the family unit, the community, the nation far and 167 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 4: beyond modern America, that has typically been the strongest in 168 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 4: one way or another, particularly throughout most of history. Why 169 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 4: wouldn't it be the case, as you noted, empirical rigor 170 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 4: requires you look at the biological differences. Why wouldn't the 171 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 4: stronger of the species be the head of the household? 172 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 5: Well, you're very clever to see that. I think, yes, 173 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 5: it's a subtle point, but it's a point that I 174 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 5: make in this paper and several other papers that I've written, 175 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 5: and that is that there's a difference between what I 176 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 5: call evolutionary patriarchy and the feminist patriarchy. I think we 177 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 5: do have a patriarchy if you're going to define it 178 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 5: as a society that's run by men, but it's a 179 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 5: patriarchy that's due to choice by women. In other words, 180 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 5: women are choosing men that are aggressive, men that take 181 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 5: risks throughout the history of evolution. So we would expect 182 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 5: men to be in leadership roles if that were the 183 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 5: way or that was the way that women were choosing. 184 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 5: And so you can see, I hope you can see 185 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 5: how the kind of patriarchy we have today is the 186 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 5: result of women's choice, and not due to a bunch 187 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 5: of men getting together and saying we want to oppress women. 188 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 5: I have an interesting quick story if I might talk 189 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,719 Speaker 5: to about a wonderful study that was done in the 190 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 5: nineteen nineties. It involves the kibbutz in Israel. It turns 191 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 5: out that the kibbutzes were formed by Eastern European basically communists. 192 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 5: It's certainly socialists who moved from Eastern Europe to Israel 193 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 5: where they had the freedom to develop the society they 194 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 5: wanted to develop, which was they believed men and women 195 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 5: should be treated exactly the same, and they set up 196 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 5: the kibbutz to be basically a communist system where everyone 197 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 5: was treated equally, and some very interesting things happened in 198 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 5: the early goings on of the kibbutz. Women worked in 199 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 5: the fields right along with the men, the hard labor. 200 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 5: It was mainly a farming community, and men and women 201 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 5: took care of the children. In fact, the children were 202 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 5: raised without parents. Basically they were given over to the 203 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 5: commune and the commune raised raised the children, both men 204 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,359 Speaker 5: and women. And then as it developed through the nineteen hundreds, 205 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 5: it evolved and we find that women didn't like so 206 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 5: much working away from children in the fields. They didn't 207 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 5: like the labor, and they didn't like being away from 208 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 5: their children. So it evolved in the sense of, you know, 209 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 5: changing over time that the women ended up taking care 210 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 5: of the children more and the men were out in 211 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 5: the fields doing most of the hard labor. And it's 212 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 5: kind of funny because one of the things that set 213 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 5: it off was they believed that the children should do 214 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 5: everything together, and they treated boys and girls the same way. 215 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 5: But as the girls got older and past puberty they 216 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 5: were supposed to take showers and bathe with the boys. 217 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 5: They started raising hell about that, and so the commune 218 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 5: decided it might be a good idea if we didn't 219 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 5: have them bathing together, because women were embarrassed dressing and 220 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 5: undressing in front of other bull in front of boys. 221 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 5: So it evolved that way also. And finally, women also 222 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 5: gave up their rights to control the kaboots in leadership roles. 223 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 5: Most women wanted to raise the children and they let 224 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 5: the men take leadership leadership roles. And this all happen 225 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 5: even though men and women wanted equality. So I'm not 226 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 5: sure that if we give one hundred percent equality, which 227 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 5: I think, you know, we're getting close to today that 228 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 5: it's going to make much difference in society. I think 229 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 5: we're finding that women are predisposed towards enjoying raising children, 230 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 5: and men are predisposed towards working hard and competitively. 231 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 4: I'm also not certain that I guess it depends on 232 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 4: what we define as equality or in what space. My 233 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 4: wife was a very successful professional before retiring, and she 234 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 4: had every opportunity that every man did. I would consider 235 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 4: that equality. I don't know that you're ever going to 236 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 4: achieve the equality for men with women, that men are 237 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: going to birth a child out of their womb. And 238 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 4: I think this desperate desire by feminists to suggest that 239 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 4: men can get pregnant and all this nonsense, and then 240 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 4: the playing with words to deprive them of their meaning. 241 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: Talk about a crisis of empirical rigor. Professor, I find 242 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: this to be a very brave subject for you to 243 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: have tackled, and in an academic setting there is an 244 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 4: absence of bravery. 245 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: I admire you for that. 246 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 4: I commend you for that. Thank you, Professor Mark Defont. 247 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 4: You want to look him up. D E F A 248 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: n T. Keep up the good works or I'm out 249 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 4: of time. Alas you're listening to the Michael Berry Show. 250 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: President True had this dire warning for the drug lords 251 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 4: flooding our country with poison. We know where you live, 252 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 4: we know where your front door is. Congressman, well, let's 253 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 4: hear the clip. 254 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 6: Firsts Ago, they know how I stand. We're losing hundreds 255 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 6: of thousands of people to drugs. So now we've stopped 256 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 6: the waterways, but we know every route. We know every route, 257 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 6: we know the addresses of every drug lord. 258 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: We know their. 259 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 6: Address, we know their front door, we know everything about 260 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 6: every one of them. They're killing our people. That's like 261 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 6: a war. 262 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 2: Would I do it. 263 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 6: I'd be proud to it, probably going to Congress and saying, hey, 264 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 6: and you know what, the Democrats and the Republicans would 265 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 6: both agree unless they're crazy, and they are a little 266 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 6: crazy on the Democrat side. But we have lost hundreds 267 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 6: of thousands of people. That your death, and that's not 268 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 6: talking about family destruction. That's talking about that and much 269 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 6: of it comes through Mexico. So let me just put 270 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 6: it this way. I am not happy with Mexico. 271 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 4: Okay, we have heard this language from Trump before. Houston 272 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 4: Congressman Wesley Hunt and Byron Donalds sat down with the 273 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 4: lovely and brilliant Sage Steel and they were talking about 274 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 4: President Trump and a threat he made to the Taliban leader. 275 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 4: And it sounds strangely similar, which gives credibility to the original. 276 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 2: Point when we were negotiating with the Taliban. 277 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 7: While President Trump was to the president, President Trump wanted 278 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 7: to get out of Afghanistan, but he wanted a conditions 279 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 7: based withdrawal, meaning that you do what we tell you 280 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 7: to do, and then we will start pulling troops back 281 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 7: slowly as. 282 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: Long as you abide by our rules. 283 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 7: It's President Trump and Mike Pompeo and they're talking to 284 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 7: Taliban leadership in the room, and they had one translator 285 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 7: in the room. President Trump looked at the Taliban leader 286 00:18:55,119 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 7: and said this I want to leave Afghanistan. Was going 287 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 7: to be a conditions based withdrawal, and translator translated, and 288 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 7: he said, if you harm a hair on a single American, 289 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 7: I'm going to kill you. And translator goes, and Trump 290 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 7: goes what I said, reached in his pocket, pulled out 291 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 7: a satellite. 292 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 2: Photo of the leader. 293 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 7: Of the Taliban's home and handed it to him, got 294 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 7: up and walked out the room. 295 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 4: Where would we be in this two front war against 296 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 4: the cartels and illegal invasion if the Supreme Court hadn't 297 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 4: voted the way it did back in May. 298 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court just cleared the way for Trump to 299 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: deport illegals even faster. The High Court ruled that Trump 300 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: can use the Alien Enemies Act to send Venezuela and 301 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: gang bangers to a mega prison in El Salvador. This 302 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: is a huge ruling in Trump's faith. We're in a 303 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: major win for the country after as you know, DC 304 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: Judge James Boseburg ordered a stop to the deportations, so 305 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: this is pretty significant. These deportations, Caroline can keep going. 306 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 8: This is a massive legal victory, Jesse, a massive victory 307 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 8: for law and order and for our constitutional republic in 308 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 8: the sovereignty of the United States of America. We called 309 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 8: on the Supreme Court to reign in these activist judges 310 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 8: like Judge Bosburg, who was completely out of line and 311 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 8: trying to say that the President didn't have the executive 312 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 8: authority to deport foreign terrorists off of our soil. We 313 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 8: have always maintained the position at the White House that 314 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 8: the President was well within his constitutional authority to do so, 315 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 8: and this decision proves that President Trump in our administration 316 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 8: have always been right from the beginning. He will continue 317 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 8: to utilize the Alien Enemies Act to remove for war 318 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 8: in terrorists and trendy Aragua members, vicious gang members from 319 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 8: American communities. And because of this ruling, the United States 320 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 8: of America is a much safer place. Our team will 321 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 8: get to work tomorrow to deport these heinous, violent foreign 322 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 8: terrorists from our neighborhoods. 323 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 4: We told the story of Jasmine Crockett trying to rescue 324 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 4: the republic the Democrats over the Epstein issue. So she 325 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 4: had jumped up when the Democrats were in trouble because 326 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 4: Stacey Plaskett, one of their own, had been in contact 327 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 4: with Jeffrey Epstein while she was in a congressional hearing 328 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 4: trying to burn Trump. Epstein's trying to help her because 329 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 4: he's mad at Trump, and so the Democrats are looking 330 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,400 Speaker 4: really stupid, and Jasmine Crockett steps up and says, yahotewln, 331 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 4: I got this, And she jumps up and announces that 332 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 4: there were Republicans who received money from Jeffrey Epstein, which 333 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: was true, just a different Jeffrey Epstein. So once again 334 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 4: a swing and a miss by Jasmine Crockett, the DEI congressman. 335 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 4: Now she goes on with that, what does he call her? 336 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 4: That nasty person? 337 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 2: Trump calls Caitlyn Collins. 338 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 4: She goes on with Caitlyn Collins and pretends, Oh, I 339 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 4: never tried to mislead anybody. No, no, no, no, no. Anybody 340 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 4: that got that impression that's wrong. I never tried to 341 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: mislead anybody. 342 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: You talk about Republicans taking money from a Jeffrey Epstein, 343 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: here's what you said. 344 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 9: Who also took money from somebody named Jeffrey Epstein. As 345 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 9: I had my team dig in very quickly, met Romney, 346 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 9: the NRCC Lee Zelden, George bush Win, read McCain, palin 347 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 9: Rick Lazio. 348 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 3: You mentioned the Leizelden there, he's now a cabinet secretary. 349 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 3: He responded and said it was actually doctor Jeffrey Epstein, 350 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 3: who's a doctor that doesn't have any relation to the 351 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 3: convicted sex trucker. Unfortunate for that doctor, but that is 352 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 3: who do it to a prior campaign of his. Do 353 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: you want to correct the record on the people. 354 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 9: And I never said that it was that Jeffrey Epstein, 355 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 9: just so that people understand when you make a donation, 356 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 9: your picture is not there. And because they decided to 357 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 9: spring this on us in real time, I wanted the 358 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 9: Republicans to think about what could potentially happen because I 359 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 9: knew that they didn't even. 360 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: Try to go through the FEC. 361 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 9: So my team what they did is they googled, And 362 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 9: that is specifically why I said a Jeffrey Epstein. Unlike Republicans, 363 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 9: I at least don't go out and just tell lies 364 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 9: because it was not the same one. That's fine. But 365 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 9: when Lee Zelden had something to say, all he had 366 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 9: to say was it was a diffrey jeff Jeffrey Epstein. 367 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 9: He admitted that he did receive donations from a Jeffrey Epstein, 368 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 9: So at least I wasn't trying to mislead people. Now, 369 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 9: have I dug in to find out who this doctor is? 370 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 9: I have not, So I will trust and take what 371 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 9: he says is that it wasn't that Jeffrey Epstein. But 372 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 9: I was not attempting to mislead anybody. I literally had 373 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 9: maybe twenty minutes before I had to do that debate. 374 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, but people might see that say, well, you're trying 375 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 3: to make it tell him like he took money from 376 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 3: I did not register tex offender. 377 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 9: No, but I literally did not know when you search 378 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,479 Speaker 9: FEC files, And that's what I had my team to do. 379 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 9: I text him and I say, listen, we're going up 380 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 9: there saying that she took donators, right. 381 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 3: But someone might say, well, your team should have done 382 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 3: the homework to make sure it wasn't. 383 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 9: Within twenty minutes, you could not find that out, not 384 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 9: from just doing a quick search on FBC. So number one, 385 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 9: I made sure that I was clear that it was 386 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 9: a Jeffrey Epstein, but I never said that it was 387 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 9: specifically that Jeffrey Epstein. 388 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 4: Michael, Well, here's the story. It says a lot about 389 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 4: what most of us think of art, particularly what would 390 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 4: be called fine art. A museum volunteer was cleaning the 391 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 4: museum voluntarily, big fan want to help, accidentally destroyed an 392 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 4: art piece. No, not moving it, not lifting it or 393 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 4: hanging it, after mistaking it for a dirty mirror and 394 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 4: cleaning it because it well, if you see a picture 395 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 4: of it, it looks like a dirty mirror. The work 396 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 4: by Chin Sung Chi is said to symbolize quote the 397 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 4: distorted self awareness of the middle class. A volunteer at 398 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 4: the Key Lung Museum of Art in Taiwan and accidentally 399 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 4: destroyed a valuable artwork by cleaning it. 400 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: With toilet paper. 401 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 4: The piece, entitled Inverted Syntax sixteen, features a dust covered 402 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 4: mirror mounted on a simple wooden board with a smudge 403 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 4: in the center. The piece, which symbolized the cultural consciousness 404 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 4: of the middle class, was created by Chin Sung Chi. 405 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: I guess you're supposed to know who that is. The volunteer, 406 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 4: thinking the mirror was dirty, wiped away forty years of dust, 407 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 4: irreparably damaging the artwork. Oh no, the dust was part 408 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 4: of the artwork. The museum's management has apologized to the 409 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 4: artist and is discussing potential compensation. The artwork was part 410 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 4: of the We Are a Me exhibition, showcasing works created 411 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 4: from building materials and everyday objects. The report mentioned that 412 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 4: some critics even argued that the accidental cleaning has become 413 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 4: part of the artwork and should be left as it is. 414 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 4: So there you talk about a class differential when when 415 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 4: you see cases like this, you know Rauschenberg did did 416 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 4: the white painting where there was nothing on there and 417 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 4: it represented I guess infinity or limitlessness, and you know 418 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 4: your average rednecks going, well, hell, I could have done 419 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 4: I could have done the blank canvas. I mean I 420 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 4: could have done that. There is a disconnect, and there's 421 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 4: nothing wrong with it. There are people who would say, 422 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 4: when I walk in and look at that stuff, I 423 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: don't see anything. I see a bunch of I see 424 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 4: people making a mockery of their hoity toity ways, and 425 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 4: a lot of people standing around pretending that they love this. 426 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 4: Because if you don't love it, you don't get it. 427 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 4: And if you don't get it, you're a heathen. So 428 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 4: in order to show how much you how smart you are. 429 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 4: We see this with bands. It's less pretentious, but still 430 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 4: the same mindset. People will say they like a particular 431 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 4: song or a particular band because you're supposed to, if 432 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 4: you're sophisticated, you're supposed to like that particular thing. And 433 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 4: so we see this, and we see this with caviar. 434 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 4: I don't believe caviar tastes good. And in fact, caviar 435 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 4: was cheap until relatively recently, until it was made available 436 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 4: to a larger until it was until it was. 437 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: Oh, what was the story? 438 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 4: I just read this the other day. How the price 439 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 4: of caviar spiked. Oh, it doesn't matter. But the point 440 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 4: is caviar used to be considered trash, and then once 441 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 4: the value shot up, you had sturgeon being pulled out 442 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: of the water, cut open for the caviar or the eggs, 443 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 4: and just discard it as trash because the price went up. 444 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 2: It does feel to some of us. 445 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 4: I think a lot of people that there are things 446 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 4: that are given an artificial value because they are supposedly 447 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 4: so rare, or so elegant, or so special. And there 448 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 4: is a class of people who reinforce this notion because 449 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 4: it adds to their unique I get it, and you don't. 450 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 4: It's hipsterism writ large, just refined and more expensive. It's 451 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 4: as simple as that. But I also understand that there 452 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 4: is a place in the world for art and for 453 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 4: artistic beauty and for stopping and smelling the roses. That's 454 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 4: just not what I sense when I go to an 455 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 4: art gala, or I don't go to art gallows to 456 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 4: an art gallery. That's not what I sense is going on. 457 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 4: I just I don't see that as I don't see 458 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 4: that they are celebrating art in natural beauty story out 459 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 4: of well it's out of Florida, but it involves three 460 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: Houston men. They were involved in the scheme with another 461 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 4: man to try and cash a US Treasury check worth 462 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 4: more than twenty seven million dollars in Florida. Go big 463 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 4: or go home, I guess. According to the federal criminal complaint, 464 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 4: agents arrested Carlos Manuel Villa via Nueva, thirty seven, of Hyalia, Florida, 465 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 4: Eric Renard Bedford forty four of Houston, Jorge CRUs Garcia 466 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 4: thirty of Katie, and John Ryan Boxey forty three of Houston. 467 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 4: The four men faced one count of conspiracy to defraud 468 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 4: the United States and one count of theft of government property. 469 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 4: The tax refund check, which totaled twenty seven million, nine 470 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 4: hundred ten thousand that's almost twenty eight men, was supposed 471 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 4: to go to an unnamed company in Richmond, Virginia, and 472 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 4: it had not been cashed. According to the criminal complaint, 473 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 4: a source of information told federal agents that Vieanueva had 474 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 4: access to the check. On November fifth, Vianueva opened talks 475 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 4: with a man called Banker in the complaint, who he 476 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 4: believed could help him cash the check. The banker was 477 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 4: an undercover officer with the US Treasury Inspector General for 478 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 4: Tax Administration. Vianueva showed the undercover officer photographs and videos 479 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 4: of the check and said that three other men who 480 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,719 Speaker 4: lived outside Florida had it. He added that the trio 481 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 4: could travel to Florida, but stressed that he needed help 482 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 4: cashing the check because the company was closed and the 483 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 4: check was expiring on November twelfth. Vienueva told the agent 484 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 4: that his cut of the check could be five point 485 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 4: six million, and he asked the officer to create separate 486 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 4: bank accounts to disperse the funds. He allegedly added that 487 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 4: the men had quote access to other checks of a 488 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 4: large amount and can get more. According to investigators, Garcia 489 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 4: quote claimed to have extensive experience in negotiating stolen checks, 490 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 4: particularly US Treasury checks, and also mentioned that he operates 491 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 4: a business that is used to funnel the proceeds from 492 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 4: these stolen checks. The four men made their first appearances 493 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 4: on November twelve in a federal court in Fort Lauderdale. 494 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 4: So these people are running a syndicate to get a 495 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 4: hold of foreign checks, to get i mean stolen checks, 496 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 4: to get these checks, to steal them, take possession of them, 497 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 4: cash them, and then launder the money afterwards. These are 498 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 4: very sophisticated operations. This is happening all around us. And 499 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 4: what about the person or company who's checked it really 500 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 4: is that maybe went under and wouldn't have but for that, 501 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 4: the number of frauds and schemes that are being carried 502 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 4: out in this country and not being prosecuted sufficiently. If 503 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 4: people feared that they would be locked away for a 504 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 4: very very long time, I don't believe they'd do this. 505 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 4: If they believed they'd be caught and then prosecuted thoroughly, 506 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 4: I don't believe they would do this anymore. 507 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Eldus has left for killing me. 508 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 5: Thank you, and good night.