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Speaker 1: I had a very severe problem with alcohol, and then

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Speaker 1: when I saw that in them, when I was desperate

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Speaker 1: to help one of my children, it ruptured our relationship

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Speaker 1: because I was butting in, interfering, you know, and insisting,

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Speaker 1: and I went so far as to do I guess

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Speaker 1: the unthinkable, you know, I went to the authorities.

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Speaker 2: What was that experience?

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Speaker 3: Like fuse?

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Speaker 1: It was devastating, you know, it just it just ruptured

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Speaker 1: our relationship.

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Speaker 3: Hello Loves. That was legendary actor Martin Sheen reflecting on

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Speaker 3: his most heartbreaking and courageous moments as a father. We

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Speaker 3: were honored to welcome the beloved actor and lifelong activists

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Speaker 3: alongside his dear friend, father John Deere, a Jesuit Priests,

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Speaker 3: author and tireless advocate for peace. From moments of courage

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Speaker 3: and civil disobedience to reflections on spirituality and the power

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Speaker 3: of connection, this episode is nothing short of a masterclass

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Speaker 3: in living a life larger than yourself. This is My

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Speaker 3: Legacy host it by me Andrea Waters King alongside my

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Speaker 3: husband Martin Luther King the Third and our good friends

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Speaker 3: Mark and Craig Kilberger. Let's dive in.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to My Legacy podcast. One of the things that

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Speaker 4: makes this podcast special is we don't just meet extraordinary individuals.

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Speaker 4: We meet the people who know them best, someone who

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Speaker 4: has shared their highs, their lows, and everything in between,

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Speaker 4: giving us deeper insight and understanding into what truly shapes

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Speaker 4: who they are today. Were thrilled to welcome Martin Sheen.

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Speaker 4: I've loved actor and activist, and Martin, you brought someone

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Speaker 4: with you here today. Would you do us the honor

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Speaker 4: to introduce him to our audience and who he is

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Speaker 4: to you?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm very honored to be here, first of all,

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Speaker 1: and that you gave me the privilege of inviting one

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Speaker 1: of my heroes. It's John Deere. I think John and

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Speaker 1: I met him Jail. I'm not sure. I'm a bit older,

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Speaker 1: but I think of him as my older brother. He's

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Speaker 1: an inspiration. He's a spiritual guide, a great non violent advocate,

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Speaker 1: and who for me, coined the phrase the non violent Jesus.

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Speaker 1: And I heard it in his first sermon, the first

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Speaker 1: mask that he gave in Washington's.

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Speaker 4: And interesting, you prefer John rather than father johnre Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Okay? John?

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Speaker 4: Well, John and Martin, thank you both, and to our listeners,

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Speaker 4: this is gonna be a little bit confusing because we

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Speaker 4: have two extraordinary Martin's here newless to say, we got

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Speaker 4: Martin Sheen and Martin Luther King the third. So we're

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Speaker 4: gonna start though with Martin Sheen and I should I

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Speaker 4: should say we all know each other very well. We've

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Speaker 4: known you for a couple of decades.

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Speaker 2: Now, Martin.

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Speaker 4: And when you tell the story about your folks, I

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Speaker 4: love how you share your origin and how that almost

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Speaker 4: determined your legacy to become a social justice advocate. Can

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Speaker 4: you take us back a little bit to your parents.

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Speaker 1: They were my first heroes and my inspiration of how

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Speaker 1: to live a consequential life. I guess that we were

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Speaker 1: all called to be responsible for what we do and

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Speaker 1: what we failed to do, and they were my first teachers.

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Speaker 1: So my father was Francisco Steves. He was from a

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Speaker 1: very small village in northern Spain and Galicia called Bararruvius

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Speaker 1: sult of Ravolta. He was raised on the Minho River,

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Speaker 1: which separate Spain from Portugal, so he spoke both languages.

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Speaker 1: He came to the United States with his brother Alfonso

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Speaker 1: when he was fourteen, so his brother was sixteen, and

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Speaker 1: they landed at Port of New York and refused entry

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Speaker 1: because they were Spanish, and the Spanish American War was

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Speaker 1: newly fought and there was a quota on Spaniards but

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Speaker 1: not Hispanics. And so they got on the next boat

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Speaker 1: for Cuba. And they spent three years in Cuba, and

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Speaker 1: my father worked in the sugar cane fields and he

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Speaker 1: saved his money, so he worked his way up to Dayton, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: He'd heard that there was a factory there called the

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Speaker 1: NCR and they were hiring a lot of immigrants. He

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Speaker 1: didn't speak English, so he was in a citizenship class

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Speaker 1: and he met this young lady from Ireland who was

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Speaker 1: sent to the United States in nineteen twenty one on

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Speaker 1: her eighteenth birthday to kind of protect her life really,

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Speaker 1: because her family were all involved in the struggle for independence.

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Speaker 1: They were all ira and they fell in love and

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Speaker 1: got married. She taught him how to speak English when

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Speaker 1: they were married there in nineteen twenty seven, and they

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Speaker 1: had My mother had twelve pregnancies, ten survived, nine boys,

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Speaker 1: one girl, and I'm a seventh son. I've often said

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Speaker 1: that I had a leg up when it came to

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Speaker 1: social justice activism because to be raised in such a

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Speaker 1: large family immigrant family. You were either Irish, Catholic or Hispanic,

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Speaker 1: and I was lucky enough to be both. So I

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Speaker 1: felt I had a calling all my life, I felt

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Speaker 1: that I had a responsibility, and I was raised in

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Speaker 1: the Catholic faith. Of course, I went to an all

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Speaker 1: boys Catholic high school in Dayton, Shamanad. It's now co ed,

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Speaker 1: and so they had a very profound effect on me,

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Speaker 1: the brothers there. And to really express my faith, it

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Speaker 1: had to be expression. It had to be expressed in

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Speaker 1: what we did or what we failed to do. And

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Speaker 1: so I became involved very young and very active when

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Speaker 1: I was fourteen. Senator Brown gets a big kick out

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Speaker 1: of the story of my founding a union when I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen. It's true. I started cattying at a very

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Speaker 1: exclusive private club in Ohio when I was nine years old,

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Speaker 1: and all my brothers in front of me had caddied there.

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Speaker 1: We were just kids, you know, and carrying these bags

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Speaker 1: for these very privileged characters, and so I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: it's time to get their attention. So I formed a

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Speaker 1: union with the lads and we called a wildcat strike

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Speaker 1: on what on ladies did, because we knew the women

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Speaker 1: would not carry their bags on Tuesday, Tuesday mornings.

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Speaker 5: How did that go?

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Speaker 1: It went very well for us the first couple of days,

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Speaker 1: but then about seventy two hours they fired us all.

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Speaker 1: But it was the greatest lesson I could have learned.

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Speaker 1: To this day, I can't belong to anything private. I'm embarrassed,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: Saying, well, you were fourteen years old. Is there any

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Speaker 3: particular story from your childhood that would give us and

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Speaker 3: our listeners a window into what it was like growing

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Speaker 3: up in your households and how that impacted I'm sure,

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Speaker 3: Oh there were.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, there was at one point there was

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Speaker 1: still eight of.

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Speaker 2: Us in the house, your amazing mother and my mother.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and she she passed away in nineteen fifty one,

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Speaker 1: so so my dad was left to carry the burden.

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Speaker 1: So that that was a big, course, a huge loss

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Speaker 1: in our lives, you know, kind of odd. I was

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Speaker 1: an altar boy then, you know, And and we were

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Speaker 1: at my brother Alfonso and I were asked to serve

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Speaker 1: her funeral, and I thought it just seemed kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, we'd served funerals before, but never a parent.

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Speaker 1: And I'm glad we did because it was it got

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Speaker 1: us so close to the to the mass, you know,

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Speaker 1: and to the celebration of her life, although it was

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Speaker 1: hopelessly heartbreaking and sad and you know, can you never

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Speaker 1: kind of get over that loss? So young?

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Speaker 3: How old were you.

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Speaker 1: When mother died? Yes, I was almost eleven. It was like, yeah, that.

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Speaker 3: Was you and Martin were the exact same age when

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Speaker 3: you all lost a parent.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a pro pround difference. Yeah, no question,

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Speaker 1: no question.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, let me ask this question, Martin, how did the

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Speaker 6: two of you meet?

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Speaker 5: You got arrested at the Riverside Research Institute with Dan,

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Speaker 5: and then a year later you came back and got

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Speaker 5: arrested and we went for a long walk that night.

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Speaker 5: We walked all across Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: So you met in jail, Uh, which would be interested.

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Speaker 5: There's so many arrests. I've been arrested eighty five times

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Speaker 5: and wow, no, but then there's others that they didn't

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Speaker 5: arrest me. And it's a way of life for me

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Speaker 5: eighty five times because of you and your dad, your family.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 7: It's all five times for sybils to be eighty five eighty.

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Speaker 5: Five times for non violence, civil speans against war, poverty,

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Speaker 5: and nuclear weapons. All injustices.

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Speaker 2: So eighty five times.

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Speaker 7: How many times have you intersted Martin?

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Speaker 5: Not that many?

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Speaker 2: Sixty six, sixty times?

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Speaker 1: Martin?

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Speaker 2: How many times have you interested?

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Speaker 1: Only fifteen?

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Speaker 3: How many times are you interested only one? I'll tell

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Speaker 3: you that we had when we were arrested. It was

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Speaker 3: with our daughter, who was fourteen at the time.

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Speaker 4: She was about.

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Speaker 3: Fourteen, So it was all three of us, and we

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Speaker 3: were arrested just a couple of years ago outside of

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Speaker 3: the White House to demonstrate the need.

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Speaker 2: For voting rights.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, because all three of us were

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Speaker 3: getting arrested together, I will never forget that morning. We

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Speaker 3: had to write and sharpie phone numbers on our daughter's

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Speaker 3: arm because she would be going to juvenile and we

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Speaker 3: would be going to jail, and so we had to

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Speaker 3: make sure that she would have a way to call

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Speaker 3: someone because she couldn't get to her parents.

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Speaker 5: In all my lifetime and all the thousands of friends

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Speaker 5: I've noon gotten arrested, I've never heard the story of

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Speaker 5: a couple with their child getting arrested together.

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Speaker 3: You know, children, as you all know, are so resilient.

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Speaker 3: So she was with four five other girls that were

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Speaker 3: all under the age of sixteen that were, you know,

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Speaker 3: they were. They were very clear on what what they

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Speaker 3: were doing and why they were doing it. And they

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Speaker 3: had several opportunities, you know, to say, look, this is

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Speaker 3: not we're not going to do this, and everyone would

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Speaker 3: have understood, but she was resolute in the why why

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Speaker 3: she was doing this.

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Speaker 5: Isn't that great? It brings the life the Birmingham campaign

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Speaker 5: and having all those thousands of children get arrested.

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Speaker 3: Ye, what's amazing to me is that when you look

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Speaker 3: at that footage, those kids were in jail singing songs

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Speaker 3: of freedom.

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Speaker 5: Oh, they were experience the acts of the apostles. They

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Speaker 5: were full of the Holy Spirit and joy.

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Speaker 3: And I have God bumps after.

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Speaker 5: Being don't know if you cross the line and take

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Speaker 5: a risk publicly in the spirit of Kingian nonviolence like

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Speaker 5: Jesus in prayer, in love, I don't care anymore, no

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Speaker 5: more injustice, no more war. You there are Yeah, there

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Speaker 5: are consequences. You're gonna go in jail, but you're gonna

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Speaker 5: discover hope and joy and peace and community, loved community.

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Speaker 5: Wouldn't you experience? That's what you said, Martin. I'm talking

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Speaker 5: to Martin Sheen about your first arrest.

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Speaker 1: You said, was the happiest day of my life. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I had always been afraid and uh, I would support,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the non violent social justice efforts, but

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Speaker 1: I never had the courage to cross the line. And

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Speaker 1: and and I remember I was in New York. I

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Speaker 1: was doing a film and I had the day off,

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Speaker 1: and there was a demonstration with Dan, with Dan and uh,

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Speaker 1: and he was being interviewed for sixty minutes, and so

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Speaker 1: UH Mike Wallace was interviewing him on the street and

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Speaker 1: and we were walking along to the demonstration, and then

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Speaker 1: Wallace started talking to me about, Uh, well, you you

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Speaker 1: could be facing some serious charges here. And I hadn't

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Speaker 1: even thought of that. I said, really, don't tell them that.

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Speaker 1: And then we got to this, I should explain, John, please,

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Speaker 1: what where we were?

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Speaker 5: And it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: I was down Manhattan forty.

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Speaker 5: Forty second Street right there for fifty years is a

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Speaker 5: tall building and that's the leftover of the Manhattan Project.

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Speaker 5: And on the tenth floor of this building, overlooking all

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Speaker 5: the glittery lights, they're planning post nuclear laser being warfare.

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Speaker 5: Until we started going there and sitting in and singing hymns.

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Speaker 5: On doctor King's birthday, Good Friday, Horoshima Day and around

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Speaker 5: Christmas liturgically for years, and that would shut down the

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Speaker 5: whole apartment building with the.

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Speaker 1: Old McGraw hill.

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Speaker 5: It was the McGrath building. It was called Riverside Research Institute.

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Speaker 5: You would never know what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And we started.

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Speaker 5: It's closed.

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Speaker 3: We got rid of congratulations and I'm not to thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you absolutely, you.

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Speaker 7: Said, is the one of the most happiest.

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Speaker 1: Just tell us that I faced my fears, but not alone. Thing. Guy,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have done it alone in the sense of,

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Speaker 1: you know, my my whole thing was fear. Man. You know,

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Speaker 1: how how badly am I going to get treated as

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Speaker 1: their chance I could get hurt? And then with all

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Speaker 1: these people in there singing, and then the cops come

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Speaker 1: and they say, all right, you you all have like

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Speaker 1: the the New York guy. He say, ah, you just

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Speaker 1: got about you three minutes here, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: start you. You're all under arrest. So come on, chief,

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Speaker 1: you were you you believe in this, Get in there,

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Speaker 1: Come on father, come on. That was the atmosphere it was.

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Speaker 1: And then you get it. You know, they they start

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Speaker 1: lugging you. One of the time, you know, you get

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Speaker 1: a chance to leave and you don't and they just

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Speaker 1: take you. And nobody had to be carried everybody but

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Speaker 1: everybody's singing and they're carrying on the car sixty minutes.

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Speaker 3: It was because you're you're coming from a place of power,

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Speaker 3: being for something rather.

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Speaker 1: Than against exactly.

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Speaker 3: But when you know what you're standing for and what people,

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Speaker 3: I think really get a sense of is what Gandhi

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Speaker 3: talked about sat Raja that sole force, you know, sole force,

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Speaker 3: that is what that and there's something about that and

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Speaker 3: coming together and standing for not only for ourselves.

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Speaker 2: But for our.

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Speaker 3: Children, our children's children. It is something that truly is transformative.

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Speaker 5: Once I faced twenty years in prison, I hammered on

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Speaker 5: a nuclear weapon. So this real serious stuff. The government

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Speaker 5: considers me as high up a terrascian you can get

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Speaker 5: in the United States, because I was a priest messing

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Speaker 5: around with nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 1: That the government was trying to get co conspirators. And

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Speaker 1: so at one point the press and John wouldn't tell

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Speaker 1: any wouldn't reveal any of the other people that had

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Speaker 1: helped organize and the getaway car and all of that,

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Speaker 1: the car that brings you the thing, and so the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor said, and father John tell us, well, you know

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Speaker 1: who drove who drove you to the demonstration? And John said,

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Speaker 1: we were driven by the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 5: That didn't go over well, and I got six four

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Speaker 5: months of contempt. Nineteen ninety Here in La at the

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Speaker 5: Federal Building every Wednesday morning, a thousand of us protested,

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Speaker 5: calling from the end of military ATel Salvador and Martin.

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Speaker 5: That's where we both met Jim Loston.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Hell, Jim is one of doctor King's best friends and

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Speaker 5: the strategists of the movement. And after doctor King died,

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Speaker 5: he moved to La where he was pastor until recently

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Speaker 5: at Holman Methodist Church and died this summer.

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Speaker 3: But Martin, your dad loved I mean, he and Jim Larson,

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Speaker 3: can we I mean, I just think, particularly since we

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Speaker 3: lost him.

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Speaker 6: Just the summer at his funeral, he was such we

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Speaker 6: all know, such an institution and understood the theory and

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Speaker 6: practice of non violence. But you know, when you think

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Speaker 6: of these huge, dynamic people that not enough of us

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Speaker 6: know about as a society, because automatically your mind should

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Speaker 6: go to this is the definition of a giant will

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Speaker 6: stand up against a system. You have to go back

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Speaker 6: to the Jim Lawsons and others. You know, it reminds

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Speaker 6: me really of something my father went through in relationship

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Speaker 6: to just nonviolence, because he immersed himself in it and

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Speaker 6: never deviated from it. Not sure what would have happened

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Speaker 6: if he chose a different path. What we know is

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Speaker 6: what he chose transformed this nation in the world. And

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Speaker 6: you know, Dad was personally attacked. Everyone knows he was assassinated,

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Speaker 6: but people don't remember. He also was stabbed in nineteen

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Speaker 6: fifty eight in Harlem with his first book, Strive Toward Freedom. Now,

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Speaker 6: I share this story because it was what he said

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Speaker 6: after he was stabbed that I think is prevalent, and

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Speaker 6: that is that he had not recovered. It was just

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Speaker 6: today and if the stabbing had been just a few

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Speaker 6: inches lower, he would have died that day. Well, he

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Speaker 6: was able to be salvage and the next day he'd said,

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Speaker 6: it's the climate of the rhetoric that And by the way,

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Speaker 6: this happened to be a black woman.

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Speaker 1: Who stabbed him.

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Speaker 6: She was going to shoot him, but she didn't have

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Speaker 6: a chance to get her gun. She pulled a letter

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Speaker 6: open out of her purse and stabbed him. And so

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Speaker 6: he talked about the climate and saying we've got to

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Speaker 6: change the climate. It's relevant today, We've got to change

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Speaker 6: the climate and the rhetoric.

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Speaker 5: Since we're talking about your father and non violence, I

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Speaker 5: wondered if you could share, since I never got to

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Speaker 5: ask you this an anything about what you learned from

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Speaker 5: him personally about nonviolence. How do we teach nonviolence and

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Speaker 5: live nonviolence? And it seems to me sometimes your dad

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Speaker 5: had it in his DNA to be gentle. For me,

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Speaker 5: it's kind of a struggle. And I gave it. A

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Speaker 5: National Convention on Nonviolence a couple of years ago. I

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Speaker 5: brought Jim Lawson in and I said, I want you

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Speaker 5: to talk about doctor King's non violence and he goes,

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Speaker 5: John doesn't know nonviolence. If Martin were here, he'd say,

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Speaker 5: nonviolence is power. We're not powerless. We have the power

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Speaker 5: through nonviolence to change the world through love and truth.

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking of that time you were marching with your

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Speaker 5: father and you held his hand. I read in a

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Speaker 5: book and you felt the peace that he knew. Can

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Speaker 5: you tell me what he you learned from your dad

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Speaker 5: about nonviolence?

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Speaker 6: Well, I think first of all, what was learned was

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Speaker 6: this has to be a way of life a commitment.

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Speaker 6: You can't practice it one day. Except for that one

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Speaker 6: time where he became angry with us because we've poured

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Speaker 6: water in his ears, his children, and so he was

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Speaker 6: That's the only time I really ever saw him angry.

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Speaker 6: He didn't get he didn't quite whip us, but he

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Speaker 6: was on the way what.

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Speaker 1: You have to I never heard that.

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Speaker 5: You have to tell us that because you're saying you

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Speaker 5: never saw him otherwise.

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Speaker 6: I never remember seeing him angry. I always saw him.

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Speaker 6: He was always very measured and disciplined. And I think

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Speaker 6: that's what in a relationship to nonviolence. It has to

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Speaker 6: be a discipline because we are human beings. We're going

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Speaker 6: to be upset, be angry. And as I said, now

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Speaker 6: he was asleep and he was exhausted. And because our experience,

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Speaker 6: you were finally well, yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 5: That the way.

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Speaker 2: We didn't see it that way time.

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Speaker 6: But our experience was whenever Dad came home, his entire

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Speaker 6: attention was devoted toward fulfilling us as his children. So

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Speaker 6: it was like I got to play with them. And

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Speaker 6: this is looking back thinking about it, because I'm gone

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Speaker 6: all the time and I don't have a large quantity

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Speaker 6: of time but the quality of time I want to

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Speaker 6: use to fulfill my kids. So we wanted to play

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Speaker 6: and he was asleep. So somebody, it wasn't me, but

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Speaker 6: somebody with a smart idea, let's pour water in dad's ear.

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Speaker 1: And then that.

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Speaker 6: Was not a good experience.

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Speaker 5: It was.

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Speaker 6: It was frightening because of course we did that and

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Speaker 6: ran and he ran after.

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Speaker 1: He didn't whip us, he didn't.

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Speaker 6: Catch us that day. I qualified that day.

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Speaker 5: But the rest of the time he was no.

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Speaker 2: He was.

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Speaker 6: He was always measured and always the same kind of

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Speaker 6: love that he provided for us as a father, although

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Speaker 6: it was a father son for the daughter relationship, he

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Speaker 6: provided to everything.

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Speaker 5: That's the one time in your eleven years you saw

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Speaker 5: him get even like upset. He was gentle, non violent. Yes,

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Speaker 5: he was practicing what he preached right, and I think

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Speaker 5: that's what the movement needs today. We all have to

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Speaker 5: reach doctor King's level of non violence.

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Speaker 6: I think yes, ideally, but I also think there's a

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Speaker 6: practical and real side of human beings and it doesn't

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Speaker 6: mean we can't get there. We have to always aspire.

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Speaker 1: Just like you know we talk about.

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Speaker 6: A perfect union, Well we're never going to be perfect,

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Speaker 6: but we can always aspire to that.

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Speaker 1: Martin.

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Speaker 4: We've had this, Martin Luther, We've had this conversation that

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Speaker 4: you know, one time you were arrested and you went

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Speaker 4: to jail right next to people who were cold hard killers,

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Speaker 4: and John, you know, I know that for half a

400
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Speaker 4: year you had to stay in prison after one of

401
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Speaker 4: those arrests. Like this is like for our listeners. Don't

402
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 4: think you're just walking in and walking out. Like there's

403
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Speaker 4: real cuts of quences of how you have put your

404
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 4: lives on the line in extraordinary ways. And I know

405
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Speaker 4: our special too too, who was a dear friend. I

406
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 4: think actually all of us here we knew him extremely well.

407
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Speaker 4: He nominated you, of course for the Nobel Prize twice

408
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Speaker 4: if not mistaken, and he called you the embodiment of

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Speaker 4: a true peacemaker, which you know, higher praise. I don't

410
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 4: know if that exists in this world. And so you

411
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Speaker 4: talked about living it, Well, yes, they're the rests where

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00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 4: you put your life on the line, But how do

413
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Speaker 4: you live your legacy outside of those situations, the quiet

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Speaker 4: ways every single day?

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Speaker 5: John, You know I grew up my dad was head

416
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Speaker 5: of the press club, so I was very politically aware

417
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Speaker 5: about the Vietnam War and your father, and about Doctor

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Speaker 5: King and the civil rights. So I was raised learning

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Speaker 5: about non violence. Now as I'm older, I kind of

420
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 5: have a little motto that non violence requires three things. First,

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Speaker 5: nonviolence to yourself. Really, we have to help one another.

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Speaker 5: No more beating ourselves up. No, we're all raised in violence.

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Speaker 5: We're all told we're nothing, and to let go of

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Speaker 5: our inner violence and to make peace with ourselfs, and

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Speaker 5: then we can model them at the same time, meticulous

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Speaker 5: interpersonal non violence toward every human being on the planet

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Speaker 5: and all the creatures and mother Earth. I always joke

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Speaker 5: when I speak, like, so you know, we're all for

429
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Speaker 5: peace and love, but deep down there's someone we'd like

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Speaker 5: to get back at. And that person is your teacher

431
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Speaker 5: of nonviolence, sent by God to be your guru, because

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00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 5: they're showing you how violent you are, and you get

433
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 5: to practice, like Doctor King, non violence with them. But

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Speaker 5: the third, at the same time, you have to have

435
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Speaker 5: one foot and the bottom up people power grassroots movement

436
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 5: of non violence, as Gandhi and Martin Luther King Junior

437
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 5: have taught us from Jesus that the way change happens

438
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 5: as bottom up movements it's not that we're political. We

439
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 5: go public with our universal love, with our vision of

440
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 5: the beloved community, with the way of active nonviolence in

441
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 5: a world armed to the teeth. This is something I

442
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 5: talked at length about with our friend Archbishop Tutu. Well,

443
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 5: I can't tell a quick story. I went to see

444
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 5: him in South Africa ten years ago and there was

445
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 5: no hello. He grabbed me by the collar and said,

446
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 5: you better work for justice and peace to the day

447
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 5: you die. I was like, I just came around the

448
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 5: world to see you, and I go, oh, I hit him.

449
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 5: He hit me, and I hit him and I go, oh,

450
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 5: man and I hit him, and I go, how am

451
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 5: I going to do that? And then I said, how

452
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 5: do you do that? Thinking ha ha ha, and he goes,

453
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 5: I got really in my face and he said, I cry,

454
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 5: and he bursts into tears and he starts telling me.

455
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 5: We talked for hours. I've lived my life in grief

456
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 5: because the world doesn't realize that God has given us

457
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 5: love just to love one another. He falls anyway, and

458
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 5: then he goes and I laugh. I laugh every day,

459
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 5: and you, John are the most ridiculous person I know.

460
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 2: And he starts making fun of me.

461
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 5: And carried on and then that sound like him. But

462
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 5: notice he's changing the world. He's not angry, he's not bitter,

463
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 5: he's not full of hate. He was under death threat

464
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 5: even until he died for his opposition to the corruptness

465
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 5: a n C. And I learned a lot there.

466
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: Martin Luther King always said too, that Jesus provided the

467
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: philosophy and Gandhi provided the methodology.

468
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 5: Isn't that great?

469
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: And one of the things I would like to underscore John,

470
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 3: is that at its fundamental bottom line, nonviolence is what

471
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 3: doctor King called also is about.

472
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: The Holy love in that great and that the.

473
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: Fact is is that we are all interconnected, you know.

474
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: So it really is about the acknowledgment that we are

475
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 3: all interconnected, and that what impacts one of us impacts

476
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 3: all of us.

477
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 5: So I studied Gandhi really hard and doctor King, and

478
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 5: they say, the vision of truth is that we're all one,

479
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 5: all equal. Every human being is a sister and brother.

480
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 5: Violence is forgetting that we and others and sisters. I forget, Craig,

481
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 5: that you're my brother. Actually, then I can go I

482
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 5: don't like you or your other or you're nobody, or

483
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 5: you're an enemy or you're not a human being, and

484
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 5: I can marginalize you or I can bomb you and

485
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,479
Speaker 5: kill you. So it's that critical that nonfinance is a

486
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 5: spiritual thing to get to the heart of you, that

487
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 5: we remember we're all one and inconnected. As doctor Kings said.

488
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 7: How do you build a movement? And I understand that

489
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 7: from a philosophical personspective, but from a practical perspective, how

490
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 7: does you guys have been part of these movements, how

491
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 7: do you build a movement?

492
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 5: We all need to stand up and take risks. And

493
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 5: it starts small. It's okay, and just know that you're

494
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 5: selling scenes. It may not work, it might work, And

495
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 5: we were weeping the harvest. We're not going to live

496
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 5: to see.

497
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 7: Thank you.

498
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 1: If what we believe is not costly, we're left to

499
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: question its value. That's the bottom line. I think. So

500
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: that if we if we reallyish has one more tames

501
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: very profound. If what we believe is not costly, we're

502
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: left to question its value. And I think that that

503
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: is the core of nonviolence, that it's going to cost

504
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: you something. The other side of that coin, And and

505
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: Martin King, I wanted to just mention a very very

506
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: important uh story that I learned about your father in

507
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: incarcerated is how much he cared for the other prisoners.

508
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: There's I don't remember where he had so many and

509
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: he was in there for so long sometimes, but his

510
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 1: main concern was how is so and so and so

511
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: and so had neton this day, and so and so

512
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: didn't have their pills, and is so and so being

513
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,479
Speaker 1: looked after. That makes the point I think of, you

514
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: cannot and you should not do this alone. You prepare

515
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: yourself alone in the sense that you have to go

516
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: inside yourself in order to go out and carry what's inside,

517
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: and that is your humanity, your compassion, your joy, your

518
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: realization of a problem that needs to be made public.

519
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: But if you go alone, don't expect to change the world.

520
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: But I think you have to do it and not

521
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: expect to change the world. All of the issues that

522
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: I have been involved in about you, John, but all

523
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: the issues I've been involved with, and all the times

524
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: that I've made a public statement in protests, not one

525
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: of them has improved, not a single one. And so

526
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: it's a lesson to me that I'm not responsible for

527
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: making that change. I'm just responsible for showing up and

528
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 1: joining the community that continue he shows up.

529
00:29:01,920 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: You're listening to my legacy. We'll be right back. Welcome

530
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 2: back to my legacy.

531
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 4: We're here with Martin Sheen and John Deere and talking

532
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 4: legacy impact nonviolence, and we got to talk about our

533
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 4: favorite presidents. President Bartlett. So many people, myself, all of

534
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 4: us millions fell in love with that character, for the hope,

535
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: the inspiration.

536
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: How much of.

537
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: It was influenced by you weighing in on writing and

538
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 4: exchanges with the team to make President Bartlett so uniquely Also,

539
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 4: Martin Sheen.

540
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: No, I can't take any credit for that, do you.

541
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: I started with the show with a contract that I

542
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: would be in the pilot, the first show, and then

543
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: that in the first season that I would appear maybe

544
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: three or four, maybe five times. Of course, in those

545
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: days we used to do twenty two episodes on drama shows,

546
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,959
Speaker 1: and so that I would be in five tops. There

547
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: would be no first Family was going to focus on

548
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: the staff. These young people, these very energetic, very idealistic

549
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: young people were serving this very liberal president. So when

550
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: the pilot was shown to the network of his NBC,

551
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: they wanted to know who worked in that office. When

552
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: they showed the oval and I only had a contract

553
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: for five episodes, so they said, we'd like you to

554
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: become a regular, and we're going to make a first family.

555
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: So I signed on, and I made two requests. One

556
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: that I have a Notre Dame degree, which I do

557
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: not have. I never went to college, but I always

558
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: love Notre Dame and I always fancy you know that

559
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: I would have gone there if I had the opportunity.

560
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: And two that he would be a practicing Catholic. And

561
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: the reason I wanted that because I'm a practicing Catholic.

562
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm still not getting it right, but I'm still practicing.

563
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: But so that the president would have to rely on

564
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: a moral frame of reference no matter what decisions he made,

565
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: they would all come from that center of his being,

566
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: which was a moral sense of himself and in his church.

567
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: And so they said, no problem. Well, it wasn't a

568
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: problem until we got to the death federally.

569
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, I still tell the story about the

570
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 4: council that you received in the kicker. Can you tell

571
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: the story about the conclusion.

572
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: When I read the script one, I suggested that my attorney,

573
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: Joe Cosgrove be the advisor on the show because he

574
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: had so many cases before the Supreme Court, and he

575
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: lost every one of them. In fact, the only time

576
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: I've been on death row is to visit one of

577
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: his clients. But my character in the episode starts on

578
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: the evening when this this federal prisoner. Mind you, the

579
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: president only has authority over federal prisoners, and it's rare

580
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: that they're executed, you know, But in this show, we

581
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: had to show this episode of a guy on death

582
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: row and that the pre has an opportunity to grant

583
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: clemency and he's not going to do it. Well, when

584
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: I read that, I talked to the writers and I said,

585
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, this is totally against my moral frame of reference.

586
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: It can't do it. And they said, well, we're not

587
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: going to change it. This is the way. And so

588
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: I talked to Joe and I said, Joe, you've got

589
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: to give me some way that I can influence the

590
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: writers to change this so that I let the guy

591
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 1: have clemency and we don't kill him. He said, that's you, Martin,

592
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: that's not the president. You can go that direction, but

593
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: then you lose credibility politically, because you know that if

594
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: you give this guy clemency that you're going to lose

595
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: political favor in certain areas, and I thought, oh my god,

596
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: I guess he's right, you know, And so I surrendered

597
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: to that because it wasn't me and there was no

598
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: way I could change it, because every now and then

599
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: I would change certain things in certain scenes and they

600
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: would edit them out. I know, no matter what I

601
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: said here, if it wasn't going to serve the purpose

602
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: of the execution, they would edit it out. And so

603
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: I was stuck saying the Rosary for the poor devil.

604
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: You know, That's what I did.

605
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 4: Well, And if I remember and correct me, because it's

606
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 4: twenty five years ago, of course the show, but I

607
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 4: can still remember scenes from it. Was that that beautiful

608
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 4: exchange about the saying, let me tell you a story

609
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 4: about a man on.

610
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: A roof and a flood coin.

611
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that whole exchange of you know, first the

612
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: boat comes, you know, hop inside, Come with me, and

613
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 4: then the helicopter hop inside.

614
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: You know, don't worry, God will take care of me.

615
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: God will take care of me.

616
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 4: And every time he waves over in the car, the boat,

617
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 4: the helicopter, and then finally he ends up at the

618
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 4: pearly gates and you know, he turns to God and said,

619
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 4: I said to see faith in you.

620
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: Why didn't you rescue me?

621
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 4: And he says, listen, I sent you got a car,

622
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 4: I sent your boat, I sent you a helicopter.

623
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: What else do you want?

624
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: Like?

625
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: I sent you all these things?

626
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: And like the symbols in that episode of Like the Pope,

627
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 4: I remember that episode, reached out to the President and said,

628
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 4: you know, would you intervene? And you know, all of

629
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 4: those conversations in twenty five years, I can retell that

630
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: episode because of just how profound it was on so

631
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 4: many individuals that you had such a deep moral conversation

632
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 4: with Americas as president in the world for that matter,

633
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 4: and that role that you played.

634
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 5: Martin won't tell you this, but you told me. And

635
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 5: I'm going to embarrass him. But he finally went to

636
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 5: Aaron Sorkin, the head of the West Wing in that

637
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 5: first season, and he's going, but who is this guy?

638
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 5: I'm imitating, Martin, But who is this guy? President Bartlett?

639
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 5: And Aaron Sorkin, the famous writer, said he's you. And

640
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: I think that's he's a bit Martin.

641
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: John.

642
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: I'm curious too, because the themes of the West Wing integrity, service, compassion,

643
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 3: they're reflected in your life's work. How do you see

644
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 3: those values connecting to the legacy that you and Martin

645
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: are building Martin s through through activism.

646
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: I don't know. I Martin has inspired me so much,

647
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 5: and doctor King. There's more movements happening now on the

648
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 5: planet than ever before in history. Actually, more people know

649
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 5: about nonviolence. I think you can make a case than

650
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 5: ever before in history. Just as things are worse than

651
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 5: ever before. My friend and I and all of us,

652
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 5: I think together are trying to keep alive the vision

653
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 5: of a world without violence and killing an injustice, and

654
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 5: that means empowering people to get together and build bottom

655
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 5: up grassroots movements from Jesus to Martin Luther King Junior,

656
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: and to do it in all new ways like Greta

657
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 5: Thunberg is showing us, and the Parkland students and the

658
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 5: Black Lives Matters students and Sister Helen Brajon the anti

659
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 5: death penalty move We're going to go through the list

660
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 5: and together we have more power than we realize. And

661
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 5: we're sort of like selling seeds and trying to encourage

662
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 5: each other to not give in to despair or our

663
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 5: own powerlessness or fear or us them that there's a

664
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 5: whole other way, the vision of the beloved community. The

665
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 5: outcome is in better hands than ours.

666
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: God, we don't have to succeed, We have to be faithful.

667
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

668
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a beautiful idea of legacy.

669
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 4: I mean, not what you accomplish in your lifetime, but

670
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 4: what you put into motion and how it continues beyond you.

671
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 2: I just I love that, Martin.

672
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 7: You know you've inspired so many. Now this is an

673
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 7: entire generation. I'm sure you know this people who are

674
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 7: streaming in the West Wing and reliving those memories, especially

675
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 7: under the current political climate. And my question to you is,

676
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 7: was there another role that really touched your heart outside

677
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 7: of President Bartlett? Another role that really touched your heart

678
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 7: that has shaped who you are deeply?

679
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 5: What about the movie Gandhi being in that you played

680
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 5: the reporter.

681
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I believe Martin.

682
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 5: Can tell us about that one.

683
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I got a called to play a part

684
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: in Gandhi and the role was a reporter following him around,

685
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: particularly on the Salt March. And so I went to

686
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: India and we were there for about six weeks and

687
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: it was a life changing experience being in the middle

688
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: of that The film was one thing. The country is another.

689
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: You know, India really got my attention. You know, I've

690
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: never been in the company of so many powerful, powerless people,

691
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: you know, the poor. As Gandhi said, you know, poverty

692
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: has a not just a look, It has a smell,

693
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: It has a texture, It has a reality that permeates everything.

694
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: And so I remember when we Emilio, my son, Milia,

695
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get anyone else to go. He took

696
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: off school and went with me, and he was a treasure.

697
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: And when we arrived and we landed in Delhi and

698
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: there was a crowd of people there and I thought,

699
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 1: I said, Emlia, there must be some diplomat or rock

700
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: and roll star on the plane and all these people

701
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: and then we realized they just came to watch the

702
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: planes land and take off. That they that they lived

703
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: there in and around the airport, you know. And that

704
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: was the case in every major city, in every neighborhood

705
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: there was a group of the poor lived so close

706
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: to the non poor, and you know, the untouchables of course,

707
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: but you know, the whole levels of aroun nine levels

708
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 1: of societal casts in India, and at that time, most

709
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: of them were still prevalent, and so Emilia would go

710
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: out every day and he'd come home with his shorts.

711
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: He'd give away everything, all his money. He'd keep a

712
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: few rupees in his socks to you know, get a

713
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: bus or something. And he kept telling me, you got

714
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: to come out, you got to come out. And then

715
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: one day we got an invitation. We went to Bombay,

716
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: which is Mumbai now, I guess, and we were filming

717
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: there for Wild and an invitation came to meet Mother Teresa,

718
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 1: whom treg I know you've met several times and was

719
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: a great inspiration to you. I think you were an

720
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: inspiration to her as well. And I came home to

721
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: the hotel that night I said, We've been invited to

722
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: meet Mother Teresa. I'm so excited. Next Saturday, we're going

723
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: to take the train down to Calcutta. It's an overnight

724
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: journey and we'll arrive in time for the Mass at

725
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: the community on Sunday morning. I'm so excited. And he

726
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: said who. I said, Manta Teresa. He said why? And

727
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: I said, are you crazy, boy?

728
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 5: Can you?

729
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: This is a living saint, This is a mighty presence

730
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 1: in the world. We get a chance to meet her

731
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: personally we're going to be And he said, but why

732
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: why what what are you talking? I said, why do

733
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: you want to do it? And without thinking, I said,

734
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: because I want to tell everybody that I met her,

735
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: and I didn't go. I realized that that was the

736
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: only reason I wanted to, so I could brag about it.

737
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: And so I didn't meet her until about ten years

738
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: later with Joe Cosgrove, who asked me to go on

739
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: a piece of mission to stop the first golf War.

740
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: But that that experience with Gandhi was the making of

741
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: that film was was extraordinary in his performance. Ben Kingsley's

742
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: performance was he began to meditate and you know, and

743
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: to become closer to his own spirit, and he was

744
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have say he wasn't social with us, you know,

745
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: he stayed in the character all the time and everybody

746
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 1: respected that. When he came on the set, it was

747
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: it was like the real guy, you know, the Gandha Gi.

748
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: People would yell. I mean, even at that time, this

749
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: is an eighty one, but people thought of him as

750
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: an embodiment, as a you know that they really got

751
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: the feeding that it was him that that Gandhi had

752
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: come back. In the flesh, and it was Ben Kingsley.

753
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: He was absolutely brilliant and I was very happy to

754
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: be a small part of that of that show.

755
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 5: After all of the Gandhi movement that your activism and

756
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 5: faith were really kindled. I did, and then you took

757
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 5: up the I got back into Catholicism and back into

758
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 5: policism and peace and justice work. And it started started

759
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 5: with activism.

760
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, very interesting, that's what it started. And I used

761
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: the phrase acting is what I do for a living,

762
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: Activism is what I do to stay alive. And that's

763
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: still true. So but yeah, it started in India because

764
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: I realized that at the time I was not a

765
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: practicing Catholic. I kind of, you know, put that aside.

766
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: And then I realized that I needed a community, and

767
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to rejoin Catholicism, but not for the piety

768
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: or the fear of condemnation, you know, fear of going

769
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: to Hell if I got caught, you know, short uh,

770
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: And so but I wanted to come into the Church

771
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: of the Peace Activists and Reverend King and Mother Terraisa,

772
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: the people whose faith is shown in their works and

773
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: and so that's the church that I came back into

774
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: and yeah, so here I am. It's all your fault, John.

775
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 2: So our fault, beautiful, you're listening to my legacy. We'll

776
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: be right back.

777
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 3: Now, back to my legacy.

778
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 6: So, Martin, you've raised four children. What do you hope

779
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 6: your children and grandchildren remember most about you?

780
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: You know, you have children as well, and you know

781
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 1: you can't love one more than the other, but you

782
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: love them all differently, and and because of their and

783
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: their needs and you, my greatest hope is that they

784
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: will love each other when when we're gone, when Jane

785
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 1: and I are gone their mother, you know, Jana, and

786
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: and for that, you know, we have grandchildren and great

787
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: grandchildren now. But I see the love, I see the

788
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: commitment they have to you know, a moral frame of reference.

789
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: None of them are Catholic, because I didn't raise my

790
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: kids Catholic, you know. But I see a sense of

791
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: their humanity and their best of all, well, a reflection

792
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 1: of who they are is in their sense of humor,

793
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: and in their sense of humor with me, you know,

794
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: they take great pleasure, you know, to get under my skin,

795
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: you know, with my ego, with like you know, I

796
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: can imagine pouring the water in your dad's ear and

797
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: then fleeing. Well, they poured a lot of stuff in

798
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: my ear too, And I wasn't as non violent as

799
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: your dad. But you know they rub you the wrong way.

800
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: But your children, they are the very they are reflection

801
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 1: of the very best and the very worst part of us.

802
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: I remember somebody was once, some famous person was asked

803
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: what they would like to be remembered for, and he said,

804
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: for about five minutes. And I think that's okay. And

805
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: you know the old phrase heat that hath offspring giveth

806
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: hostages to the future. You know, we do, we we

807
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: it's it's an active faith, it's an act of hope.

808
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 3: What would you say is the most difficult time that

809
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: you've had as a parent?

810
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: Uh, dealing with my own addiction. I'm being vulnerable and

811
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: they seeing me vulnerable and my image crumbled. And then

812
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: when I saw that in them?

813
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 7: And what was that addiction to you? For those who

814
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 7: don't know you as well?

815
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: And how did you over my addiction?

816
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: Yes? Alcohol, Yeah, I had a very severe problem with alcohol.

817
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 7: And how did you overcome that?

818
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: I overcome a visions I think I mentioned about. I

819
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: came back to the Catholic faith and I realized gradually,

820
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,320
Speaker 1: and you know that that that that this was a

821
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: a source of nourishment and grace that I could use

822
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: to let it go and I and I did. And

823
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: then a friend of mine who was in the AA

824
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: the twelve step program, when I was desperate to help

825
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: one of my children who had a severe problem, he said,

826
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: you should, you should get in the program. I said,

827
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: when I'm sober. He said, dead't matter. You've got to

828
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: learn the skills.

829
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: And how did you use that to help your child?

830
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: I wasn't able to because he had no formal teaching

831
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: in the faith or any faith, you know, but he

832
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: had a very generous and a very vulnerable spirit. So

833
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: I knew that he would not refuse me. But I

834
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: had to take that stat.

835
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: Assuming this is Charlie.

836
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, and what was that experience like bonding?

837
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: As well? It didn't start out as bonding. It ruptured

838
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: our relationship because I was butting in, interfering, you know,

839
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: and insisting that he acted a certain way. But I

840
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: think my persistence had a lot to do with it.

841
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: I didn't lay him off the hook, and I went

842
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: so far as to do I guess the unthinkable, you know.

843
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: I went to the authorities and said, uh, you know,

844
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: I know this guy and he's he's uh, he's abusing

845
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: his uh his uh probation.

846
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: What was that experience?

847
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: Like? It was devastating because he he you know, it

848
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: just it just ruptured our relationship.

849
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: And where's your relationship now?

850
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: It's like I don't know anyone like him. You know.

851
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: I go to mass you know, every every weekend, and

852
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 1: so he will call and say something about we got

853
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: to get I said, well, I have to get to

854
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: the Oh you're still into that. Oh well, lots of

855
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: luck with that, you know. But he when he clowns

856
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: about it, and yet I know that what he's really

857
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: doing is he he wanted to see it in action.

858
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,279
Speaker 1: He wants to see it in me. I'm the only one, wow,

859
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: that he's going to find that in, you know, on

860
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: a regular basis. And the fact that I've kept it

861
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: up for the last forty years means something to him.

862
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: So I know what he's doing. You know, he wants

863
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: me to prove it in some sense, you can't prove

864
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: your faith, but you live it.

865
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 7: What do you love most about him?

866
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: His vulnerability. He was so vulnerable, and he was so

867
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: he was so aware of people's needs. You know, I

868
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: never saw him unkind to a person need, whether it

869
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: was a fan or somebody on the set, or a

870
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: homeless person. His compassion, he was an inspiration. He just

871
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: I would just stand back and say, Jesus, my son,

872
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: look how extraordinary he is. I'm eighty four years old now,

873
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: and I'm often asked you I think about death, and

874
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: I respond, of course, I think about it every day.

875
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: I think I've got a shorter future than I have

876
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: a longer pasted. I get less frightened of it, although

877
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: I'm not looking forward to it, but I have to

878
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: include it in every breath, because you know, these days

879
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 1: we live in very, very vicarious and peculiar times. To

880
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: say the least. I love Richard ROR's comment he said

881
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: that we don't go to heaven, we become heaven. My

882
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: greatest fear is a sudden and unprovided departure, you know.

883
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: So that I didn't get a chance to tell someone

884
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: that I loved, how much I loved, how grateful I was,

885
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: and to those that I refuse to love that I'm

886
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: sorry that I didn't and it was my loss, and

887
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 1: will you forgive me. I hope that I have time to.

888
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 7: Do that, and we're talking a lot about the four

889
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 7: of us, the question of happiness versus fulfillment. We need

890
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 7: to live a life of fulfillment. And you know, the

891
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 7: Western concept of happiness often is the next thing, and

892
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 7: you know, the next toy, or the bigger car, or

893
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 7: the bigger job title or the corner office. But that

894
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 7: doesn't fill us up just in terms of what do

895
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 7: you have in your heart and that fulfillment that you

896
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 7: find yourself in. Because of everybody we've ever met in Hollywood,

897
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 7: we've met a lot of people, you are the most grounded, loving, caring,

898
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 7: engaged person we've ever met.

899
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: You know, actors are always dependent on somebody liking them,

900
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: approving of them, so you work or you you know,

901
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: we spend so much of our lives, not just actors,

902
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: but a lot of people, you know, you know, striving

903
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: to be loved. And that's only because we don't realize

904
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: that we have to learn to love ourselves and all

905
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: the human things about us, and that you know, that

906
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: image of seeing the light and other people. I was

907
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 1: on the campaign trail for nearly three weeks and going

908
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: into a lot of very you know, they sent us where,

909
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, the camel and some of the big candidates

910
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: couldn't go because you know that they draw such crowds,

911
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: but they can only do so much. So we were

912
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: sending areas where nobody went, and the people were just

913
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: on fire. And the three weeks were just so satisfying

914
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: and hopeful. I was. I was absolutely certain she was

915
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 1: going to win. And she did win because her whole

916
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: campaign reflected the character of the nation, not its bitterness,

917
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: it's darkness, it's fear, it's anger. It reflected the joy.

918
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: That was the first word that came out of her

919
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: campaign was joy. And I saw it everywhere we went,

920
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:49,279
Speaker 1: and even and I was in the battleground state so called,

921
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, and man, yeah, there's a lot of a

922
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: lot of darkness. But when I received I was doing

923
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: door knocking in some areas and we were running into

924
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: people with the you know, with the with this the

925
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: opposition sign on their homes and their cars. There was

926
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: just that spark of what's drawing you here? Why are

927
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:11,959
Speaker 1: you doing this? And they clearly wanted what These people had,

928
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: these volunteers, these young people who were so inspired and

929
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: and there were canvassing, you know, So I saw a

930
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: lot of that and I was. I was grounded in

931
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: the I think. I think we know ourselves when we

932
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: see ourselves. You see someone that reflects you in a

933
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: way that that draws you to them. You you just

934
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: you cannot be yourself and not see yourself in others,

935
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, I just it happens all the time that

936
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: that image of seeing the light coming from people, Martin.

937
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 4: As we wrap up, there is no way to bring

938
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 4: more inspiration and to bring a little dose of hope

939
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 4: than with a classic President Bartlet moments.

940
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,399
Speaker 2: And many people.

941
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 4: Are feeling a little overwhelmed, a little bit hopeless, and

942
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 4: so I'd be curious what would President Bartlett say to

943
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 4: rally them back at this time.

944
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: Well, I would refer to a great friend of Gandhi Romandan,

945
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: to Gore. We are called to lift up this nation

946
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: and all its people to that place where the heart

947
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: is without fear and the head is held high, where

948
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: knowledge is free, where the world has not been broken

949
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: up into fragments by narrow domestic walls, where words come

950
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: out from the depths of truth, and tireless striving stretches

951
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: its arms towards perfection, with a clear stream of reason,

952
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,960
Speaker 1: has not lost its way into the dreary desert sands

953
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: of dead habit where the mind is led forward by

954
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: thee into whoever widening thought and action, into that heaven

955
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: of freedom. Dear Father, let our awake. Amen.

956
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 4: We have had an incredible conversation with John Deere and

957
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 4: Martin Sheen about faith, about family, about nonviolence, about perseverance,

958
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 4: and I look back in some of these lessons I

959
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 4: just want to reflect back on if you want to be.

960
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 2: Hopeful, you must do hopeful things.

961
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 4: I love that. I love that quote, and I love

962
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 4: the How do we live nonviolence?

963
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 2: First?

964
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 4: We have to start with non violence to ourselves. You

965
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: know the simple truth if most of us spoke to

966
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 4: our friends the way we speak to ourselves, we wouldn't

967
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 4: remain friends with those individuals.

968
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 2: How often we put ourselves down and think we're not enough.

969
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 4: And then we have to live that nonviolence to others,

970
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 4: including those who become our teachers of nonviolence, because they're

971
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 4: the ones who frustrate us the most, but they are

972
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: our teachers in those moments. Thank you to both of

973
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: you living your legacies and for showing us how to

974
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 4: live lives fulfilled and with purpose.

975
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you very much. Have very special time with

976
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: some very very special people. Thank you for allowing us

977
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: to share it with you.

978
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share,

979
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 3: and follow us at my Legacy Movement on social media.

980
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 3: New episodes drop every Tuesday. At its core. This podcast

981
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 3: honors doctor King's vision of the beloved community and the

982
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 3: power of connection. A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by

983
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 3: iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne Haywood co executive producer

984
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 3: Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you

985
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 3: get your podcasts. Until next time, may you find inspiration

986
00:56:53,280 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 3: to live your legacy.