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Speaker 1: The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters.

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Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot I

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Speaker 2: kind of want.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about

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Speaker 3: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

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Speaker 4: What is up, everybody, It's the Ping Proven Ground Podcast

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Speaker 4: Shane Baker alongside Marty Jerts and we got John Oldenberg

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Speaker 4: with us today. We're gonna talk a little bit of shafts,

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Speaker 4: specifically Ping chefs and building chefs here at Ping. Marty,

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Speaker 4: I know it's a big, big thing that Ping has

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Speaker 4: been into, been into for a long time, but specifically

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Speaker 4: over the last few years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it's fun at Ping because we view our

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Speaker 3: product development very holistically. You know that the grip, the

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Speaker 3: shaft in the head all go together as a system

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Speaker 3: to drive the performance. Very fortunate to be sitting with

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Speaker 3: John Oldenberg, our director of shaft development, who comes from

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Speaker 3: a very strong background shaft R and d Olie. I

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Speaker 3: would love to just have you tell a little bit

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Speaker 3: about your background and your time at Aldola and some

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Speaker 3: of the fun products you've worked on in the past

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Speaker 3: leading up to your career now at Ping.

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Speaker 1: Sure. I started in the golf shaft business back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, a long long time ago. Before that,

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Speaker 1: I was in I worked for General Dynamics in the

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Speaker 1: Space Systems division, So it came out of aerospace. Got

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Speaker 1: lucky to get a job in golf shafts. Don't really

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Speaker 1: have experience along those lines, but been loving it for

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Speaker 1: thirty two years. Worked with al Dula, worked my way

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Speaker 1: up to vice president of engineering for quite a while there,

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Speaker 1: and it was a good time. I learned a lot there.

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Speaker 1: I think we did a lot of good things when

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Speaker 1: we're at Aldala, at Al Daala. When I started in

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Speaker 1: ninety three, in fact, Ping was my very first customer.

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Speaker 1: I was just I started as a design engineer at

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Speaker 1: Aldola and my first customer was to design Pink shafts.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned about, you know, Ping, the history of

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Speaker 1: the shafts and the way they do things, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Ping does do things differently in golf shafts. They don't

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Speaker 1: pick stuff off the shelf, they don't go for a

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Speaker 1: brand just because the brand is popular. We think the

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Speaker 1: Ping brand is popular, so we put the Ping brand

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Speaker 1: on our golf shafts and we do a lot of

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Speaker 1: work that the other competitors, the other only ms out

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Speaker 1: there don't work. So through the years, you know, some

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Speaker 1: of the fun stuff I've done was you know, way

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Speaker 1: back when doing the Envy the Green shaft, that everybody

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Speaker 1: talked a lot. A lot of people that are going

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Speaker 1: to be listening or watching this thing are probably too

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Speaker 1: young to remember the end, but it was. It was

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Speaker 1: a very popular product that I did a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: And then the Voodoo shaft was fun and a little different,

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Speaker 1: and we did the Rip shaft, and then the Rip

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Speaker 1: led into the Tour Green shaft, and then the Rogue shaft.

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Speaker 1: The Rogue shaft became very very popular. So me and

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Speaker 1: my team at all, we did some good work over

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Speaker 1: the years and learned a lot of good things, and

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Speaker 1: hopefully I brought a lot of those learnings over here

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Speaker 1: to ping with me.

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Speaker 4: John, you mentioned interest in the in the in the

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Speaker 4: shaft development world for most of your time doing it.

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Speaker 4: What interested you in that world?

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Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't shafts that really interest me when

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Speaker 1: I got into aerospace originally. You know, when a lot

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Speaker 1: of engineers when you're going up, but we're engineers are

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Speaker 1: a little different. You probably figured that out already. But

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Speaker 1: engineers teams tend to figure out very young what they

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Speaker 1: think they want to do. And what I thought I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do was work on rocket ships, and that's

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Speaker 1: what I did out of college. I worked on rocket ships.

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Speaker 1: Then found out that I don't want to work on

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Speaker 1: rocket ships because the environment just wasn't the type of

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Speaker 1: environment just too big, too political, that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: It was then in my late twenties that I got

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Speaker 1: into golf, and like a lot of guys, like a

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Speaker 1: lot of former high school college athlete guys, I got hooked.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely got hooked.

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Speaker 4: Was there a reason to get into golf? Like, did

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Speaker 4: something points you to the golf space?

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Speaker 1: What I pointed me to the golf space was they

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Speaker 1: had a nine hole after work league at General Dynamics.

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Speaker 1: Again people can yeah, people kept asking me, hey, do

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Speaker 1: you want a sub into this league? And I didn't

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Speaker 1: have clubs. I borrowed clubs from people. They gave me

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Speaker 1: like a forty eight point seven three four handicap, and

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Speaker 1: I just I just went out and I had a

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Speaker 1: good time. Was and there was a tolerance on that

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Speaker 1: like plus minus one on seven, But I just I

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Speaker 1: got hooked on golf, and then I got my first

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Speaker 1: set of equipment. And as I started getting more and

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Speaker 1: more or figuring out more and more that aerospace wasn't

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Speaker 1: what I wanted to do with my life. An opportunity

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Speaker 1: arose from an old friend that i'd worked with before.

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Speaker 1: He said, Hey, I'm at this chef company. We're looking

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Speaker 1: for a design engineer who wants to apply. I applied.

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Speaker 1: I got lucky getting the job because, honestly, in the

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Speaker 1: interview I interviewed with a guy who was also from Chicago.

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Speaker 1: I'm in chicagoan and all. We talked about the whole time, Bears, Blackhawks,

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Speaker 1: and pizza. Forty five minute interview, didn't talk any engineer.

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Speaker 1: So I got the job.

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Speaker 2: You're like, this is perfect.

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Speaker 1: I got the based on Bears, Blackhawks, John.

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Speaker 4: I got a really important question then, I live in

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Speaker 4: the Northeast, A big battle in terms of the better pizza.

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Speaker 2: Are you always going to defend deep dish? Is that

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Speaker 2: your world? Marty?

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Speaker 4: Do you have an opinion on this as somebody that

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Speaker 4: grew up in Arizona.

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Speaker 2: Arizona, We're whatever. No, I know. That's why I'm asking.

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Speaker 2: That's you're the person that can kind of make the

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Speaker 2: definitive answer. I'm more more good pizza fine, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But that being said, pizzas pizza.

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Speaker 2: Pizza is awesome, hard to mess up, great when it's good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but if if you have to have a hierarchy

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Speaker 1: of pizza, deep dish is the way up here in

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Speaker 1: New York styles. New York styles what you go for

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Speaker 1: when you can't find anything else.

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Speaker 3: So I got there, you go, So, John, you brought

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Speaker 3: in the background in composites. So for the for the

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Speaker 3: listener out there, just tell the listener described like, what

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Speaker 3: is a composite material?

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Speaker 2: Right? And I guess the.

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Speaker 1: Easy way to describe it if you start with a metal,

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Speaker 1: and a metal is a single material, and one characteristic

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Speaker 1: of all metals is no matter which way you pull, push,

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Speaker 1: or twist them, they have the same stiffness in every direction.

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Speaker 1: Composites are different composites. The word composite means multiple pieces,

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Speaker 1: So composite materials are multiple materials mixed into one. And

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Speaker 1: what we use in the shaft world is carbon fiber

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Speaker 1: in epoxy resin, carbon fiber being a very very strong filament,

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Speaker 1: the epoxy resin being a glue that holds the filament together. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest advantages of composits, especially carbon fiber.

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Speaker 1: Composites are very very lightweight, very very stiff, very very strong.

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Speaker 1: The one drawback is in composites, your strength and your

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Speaker 1: stiffness go along the direction of the fiber, so it's

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Speaker 1: very very strong in two directions, in the direction of

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Speaker 1: the fiber, it's not so strong in other directions. You

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Speaker 1: have to do some unique things to put a structure

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Speaker 1: like a golf shaft together and have it function the

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Speaker 1: way you want it to function. But you still are

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Speaker 1: able to do that with composites and make a really

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Speaker 1: really good driver shaft that's sixty grams, or with metal

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Speaker 1: because of the density of metal and the nature of metal,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be over one hundred grams for a

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Speaker 1: driver shaft. So they're different, totally different animals, and actually

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Speaker 1: you design them totally different and you produce them totally different.

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Speaker 1: The way a graphite shaft is made is very very

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Speaker 1: different than the way a steel shaft is made.

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Speaker 3: How many different layers of the compositor used in an

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Speaker 3: average graphite shaft or a Mendo Max type of run.

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Speaker 1: Mind to max, it's probably ten layers of graphite, and

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Speaker 1: what Marty's referring to is graphic comes in a pre

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Speaker 1: preg sheet. It's like a sheet of paper, but instead

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Speaker 1: of being paper, it's sticky epoxy resin and fibers, and

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Speaker 1: it comes in a sheet and it's rolled on a tool,

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Speaker 1: so it's rolled in layers. So typically the menu would

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Speaker 1: probably use is probably about eight to ten layers. I

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Speaker 1: think I counted once one of the shafts I did,

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Speaker 1: a very heavyweight iron shaft that I did years and

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Speaker 1: years ago, we had thirty six layers of graph fights.

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Speaker 2: Was that the one hundred and thirty It was.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and thirty gram graph flight shaft.

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Speaker 2: Correct. I remember where'd it go, Marty? It went very straight,

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Speaker 2: did it? It felt?

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Speaker 3: It feels very different than steel, and that's one of

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Speaker 3: the very unique things actually, John, maybe you could tell

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Speaker 3: just a little bit of the reasons why you get

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Speaker 3: such a different feel even if you try to match,

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Speaker 3: you know, the stiffness profile and the uh the weight

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Speaker 3: and balance point characteristic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, again, they're different materials. And you mentioned, you know

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Speaker 1: that it did feel different. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: I've run into in my career because one of the

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Speaker 1: that carrot that was dangling out in front of us

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Speaker 1: the graphite guys all these years is iron shafts. Iron

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Speaker 1: shafts are still predominantly steel, especially with better players. Trying

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Speaker 1: to develop an iron shaft for better players, because you know,

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Speaker 1: you get the better players, everybody else follows. I want

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Speaker 1: to play with that guy's I want to play with

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Speaker 1: Tiger's playing, I want to play with Rory's playing. So

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Speaker 1: trying to develop a shaft, so it ended up being

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Speaker 1: that I could make a shaft that performed every bit

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Speaker 1: as well as the best steel shaft. But you can't

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Speaker 1: make a graph flight shaft that feels like a steel shaft,

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Speaker 1: just because the materials are so different. And one of

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Speaker 1: the primary reasons for that different is the damping properties

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Speaker 1: and the way the vibration, the impact of the golf

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Speaker 1: ball and the club head causes vibration. That vibration then

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Speaker 1: travels up the shaft eventually through the grip into the hands.

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Speaker 1: That's what the golfer senses as their impact. Feel and

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Speaker 1: graph fight because of the construction, mainly because it's multiple

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Speaker 1: materials that in some way work together, in some ways

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Speaker 1: fight each other. Fighting each other causes vibration to damp out,

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Speaker 1: so you don't get the same feel coming up the

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Speaker 1: shaft with a graphite shaft that you do with the

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Speaker 1: steel shaft. So again, you can match everything else. You

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Speaker 1: can match the weight, you can match the stiffness, and

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Speaker 1: you can match the torque, and you can match the balance.

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Speaker 1: You just you can't match the field.

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Speaker 4: How about the shaft lab. What about the introduction of

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Speaker 4: that here at Ping and the importance of having a

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Speaker 4: lab where you can start to do a little bit

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Speaker 4: deeper dive in terms of development of shafts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we're really really excited about having the

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Speaker 1: shaft lab. It was a five year project getting that

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Speaker 1: thing up and running and it is finally up and

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Speaker 1: running what we want to do. Earlier we talked about

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Speaker 1: Ping being different with regards to the shafts that they

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Speaker 1: put in their clubs, and Ping has always been a

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Speaker 1: company that would, as Marty stated, we do take a

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Speaker 1: holistic approach. It's not a golf head that you just

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Speaker 1: shove a shaft until you put a grip on. You

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Speaker 1: design a system so that the system works in harmony

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Speaker 1: to give the best performance. So Ping has always even

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Speaker 1: when I was back at all the designing shafts for Ping,

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Speaker 1: they would specify their product to meet what they wanted

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Speaker 1: the head to do. We want to take it one

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Speaker 1: step further instead of just specifying the product, sending those

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Speaker 1: specifications to a vendor partner and saying, please design this

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Speaker 1: for me, please test it for me, and then if

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Speaker 1: everything is good, we'll buy it from you. Now we're

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Speaker 1: doing all the design. Everything is in house. We do

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Speaker 1: everything from start to finish. So the ultimate goal for

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Speaker 1: all ping stock shafts, and we've already started We've done

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Speaker 1: a bunch of them already in the only six months

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Speaker 1: that it's been running. The ultimate goal is that the

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Speaker 1: only thing the vendors do for us is mass production.

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Speaker 1: We essentially we send them a recipe. We don't send

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Speaker 1: them specs and say, hey, design me some We send

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Speaker 1: them a recipe. This is what you're going to build

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Speaker 1: for us. This is what it's going to come out like.

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Speaker 1: So it gives us just total control of the process

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Speaker 1: us and it also allows us to deeper dive into

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Speaker 1: some innovation looking at how shafts are made. What can

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Speaker 1: we do different from a material standpoint, What can we

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Speaker 1: do different from the way shafts are made. Graphight shafts

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Speaker 1: were first made in the late nineteen sixties. A name

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Speaker 1: some people might be familiar with Frank Thomas, who used

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Speaker 1: to be technical director of the USGA. Years ago, he

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Speaker 1: worked for a fishing ride company called Shakespeare. Shakespeare made

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Speaker 1: the first graphite shafts in the late sixties. Honestly, the

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Speaker 1: basics of the materials, the basics of the process, they're

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Speaker 1: the same now in twenty twenty five. So we want

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Speaker 1: to take a deeper dive and look into that. And

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Speaker 1: we think we're better able to do that type of

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Speaker 1: thing because we don't have to rely on the mass production.

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Speaker 1: And because we don't have to rely on that mass

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Speaker 1: production paying the bills, we have other things that pay

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Speaker 1: the bills. So we can go and we can look

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Speaker 1: at innovation and shafts, whether it's the materials and whether

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Speaker 1: it's the machinery. So not only does it give us

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Speaker 1: total control of our stock shafts now, it also allows

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Speaker 1: us to go look and look under some rocks that

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Speaker 1: maybe haven't been looked at before.

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Speaker 4: How much of your day to day is experimental? How

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Speaker 4: much is your day to day within the lab where

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Speaker 4: you can experiment on some ideas that might work in

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Speaker 4: the future.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's up and down. It depends on the season.

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Speaker 1: Ping launches different products at different times, and we have schedules.

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Speaker 1: Our G product is typically on a two year schedule,

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Speaker 1: so there's times where we're extremely busy just trying to

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Speaker 1: get that G product ready, and then there'll be times

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Speaker 1: where there's a little bit of a lull, so you

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Speaker 1: work on what you have to work on, and then

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Speaker 1: when the lulls come, you work on what you want

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Speaker 1: to work on. I would say in total, and again

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Speaker 1: this is pretty new because the lab has only been

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Speaker 1: really up and running since around the March April timeframe.

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Speaker 1: We're probably spending right now about twenty percent of our

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Speaker 1: time doing innovation work.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing.

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Speaker 4: Marty John walked me through the lab a couple of

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Speaker 4: days ago, and we're going to have ADEO either out

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Speaker 4: on YouTube now or it will be out on YouTube

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Speaker 4: soon on the PING channel. I know about shafts, I

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Speaker 4: know about the ideas about shafts. I never knew what

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Speaker 4: went in to developing a shaft. And once you walk,

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Speaker 4: once someone walks you through that process, I mean the

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Speaker 4: mind's open to the idea of maybe what is to

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Speaker 4: come in the coming years in terms of where shafts

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Speaker 4: could go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the things I'm very excited about

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Speaker 3: the lab is that John's very familiar and helped team

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Speaker 3: up and do a lot of the research that we

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Speaker 3: did on shaft performance using our motion capture system focal

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Speaker 3: to bucket players into different types of groups, like you know,

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Speaker 3: so we did a lot of different shaft testing. Keep

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Speaker 3: everything the same, but change the torque or the tip stiffness,

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Speaker 3: or the weight or the balance point, and we could

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Speaker 3: kind of come up with groupings and fit shafts based

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Speaker 3: on those groupings. Well, now that we can, John in

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Speaker 3: the Lab and his team can roll a shaft for

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Speaker 3: an individual, right, you can, you can truly optimize from

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Speaker 3: a focal session and then design and manufacture a shaft.

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Speaker 3: John tell us a little bit about some of the

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Speaker 3: experimentation work you're doing there with let's say John Ky

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Speaker 3: for example, or Christian Pina.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We just say, one of the goals of the lab,

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Speaker 1: and not just taking total control of the stock shafts,

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Speaker 1: is to be able to already mention make the spoke product,

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Speaker 1: you know, do do a single shaft for a single

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Speaker 1: player that totally fits that player. And we decided that

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Speaker 1: John k would. He'd be a good guinea pig.

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Speaker 2: He's a good person to start.

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Speaker 1: It's a good person to start with. You know, he

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Speaker 1: owns part of the company, and he is a nut golfer.

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Speaker 1: He just he loves equipment and he loves the game.

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Speaker 1: So why not.

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Speaker 2: Start good player as well? Right, very good boy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, although I got to put this in there, I

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Speaker 1: had sixty two years old. I outdrove him one time.

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Speaker 2: One one time, one time. We say what year that

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Speaker 2: is or not?

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Speaker 1: That was only like two years And I let him

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Speaker 1: know it too well as I walked past him in

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Speaker 1: the faraway. But what we want to be able to

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Speaker 1: do is take all this data that we're gathering. We've

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Speaker 1: got tremendous tools that we can use to gather data.

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Speaker 1: And when fitting first started, fitting was just all about

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Speaker 1: swing speed. And you know, now we can measure a

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Speaker 1: lot more than swing speed. We can see what the

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Speaker 1: golfer is doing through the whole swing. We can see

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Speaker 1: what the shaft is doing through the whole swing. We

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Speaker 1: can analyze things, we can change things to determine what

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Speaker 1: attributes to the shaft affect what parts of the bullflight

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Speaker 1: for what types of swings. So you know, we got

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Speaker 1: John Ka on the focal system. We looked, we did

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Speaker 1: a fitting, We looked at what he's doing. We compared

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Speaker 1: what he's doing to the shaft profiles that were available

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Speaker 1: and said, okay, he fits. He should fit in right

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Speaker 1: about here, which wasn't right on top of one of

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Speaker 1: the profiles. It was kind of in between. So we

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Speaker 1: went back to the lab and we created a shaft

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Speaker 1: based on where he fit, and honestly, as far as

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Speaker 1: I know, it's still in his bag right now. It worked.

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Speaker 4: I mean it almost feels like shirt sizing, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean forever there's been small, medium, large, extra large,

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Speaker 4: and you just have to wear what's out there, and

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Speaker 4: the idea of maybe getting the shirt fit for you

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Speaker 4: versus you picking the shirt size. I mean, are we

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Speaker 4: moving in a place, Marty where in a couple of years,

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Speaker 4: five years, whatever. Every time you get a new club

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Speaker 4: in theory, if you want to get totally fit, it's

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Speaker 4: grip shaft clubhead. All that stuff fits specifically for you.

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Speaker 4: I mean to the tee, I mean basically bespoke shaft

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Speaker 4: for you.

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Speaker 3: I think if you take a step back and look

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Speaker 3: at the progression of tools in our technology, it's certainly

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Speaker 3: going that direct, okay, Right, Like if you go back

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Speaker 3: ten years, we didn't have adjustaball hozzles that you could

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Speaker 3: tweak the loft down to the nearest half a degree

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Speaker 3: to optimize your launch conditions, and then tour players could

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Speaker 3: move the cg of the head with hot melt or something.

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Speaker 3: But the every day golfer, well now they can, and

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Speaker 3: now we have a bigger suite of shaft offerings. Right,

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Speaker 3: you can still tip trim a shaft to kind of

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Speaker 3: dial it in, which is a really good method, or

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Speaker 3: step them in irons. So those are great options. But

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Speaker 3: if you kind of dot connect yourself to the future,

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Speaker 3: we are getting more and more precise with our tools

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Speaker 3: and be able to pass them to the every day offer.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's just again I think, I mean, fitting

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Speaker 4: has been a part of ping since its inception, but

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Speaker 4: you just think about where fitting potentially could be going.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, I love the idea of shafts being

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Speaker 4: such an important part of this and the fact that

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Speaker 4: you've been in the business for so long, and something

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Speaker 4: you told me the other day and you've said today

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Speaker 4: as well, is whilst the shaft world has progressed, there

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Speaker 4: are bigger steps left to be made, and there's probably leaps.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 4: You even said to me the other Eagle, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if I'm going to be around for it, but

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Speaker 4: hopefully I will be, because obviously you've dedicated so much

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Speaker 4: time to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to see before I go. One

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Speaker 1: of the things I tell people that if you look

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Speaker 1: back in the history of shafts you know or sorry,

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Speaker 1: Hickory started fourteen hundreds whenever they started putting clubs together,

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Speaker 1: and it lasted until nineteen thirties when steel really started

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Speaker 1: becoming prominent, and then steel was around until, like I said,

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Speaker 1: the late nineteen sixties when graphite finally came around. Well,

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Speaker 1: here we are, sixty years later. We haven't had something

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Speaker 1: new yet. There's something out there. There's something in a

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Speaker 1: material or process to be able to do something differently,

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Speaker 1: do something better for the golfer, do something fairly amazing.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to be part of that. You know, hopefully

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Speaker 1: it happens while I'm still here.

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Speaker 3: John Rimmerhouse that you like to you like to fish,

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Speaker 3: a little bit, play a little bit of hockey in

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Speaker 3: your day ski. Okay, what are some of these other

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Speaker 3: industries that you maybe get some inspiration and brought into

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Speaker 3: the golf chaft design world.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the industries that are very very

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Speaker 1: into composites in and using composites that flex in a

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Speaker 1: certain way. So hockey, of course, is there's definitely parallels

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Speaker 1: in hockey. They're made the same way. It's certainly a

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Speaker 1: different shape. It's the swings. You look at a slap

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Speaker 1: shot versus a driver swing. There's similarities, but there's also differences,

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Speaker 1: so you can look at, you know, some of that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, we're doing a collaboration with a hockey company

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Speaker 1: right now. They just put in a lab. We just

408
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Speaker 1: put in the lab. We want to talk and see

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Speaker 1: who's doing what and how they're doing it, and see

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Speaker 1: if we can teach them and they can teach us.

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Speaker 1: Fishing poles are a little different. They're made exactly the

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Speaker 1: same way that shafts are made, but the performance requirements

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Speaker 1: are a little different. But again, anytime you're looking at

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Speaker 1: a composite structure, specifically a tubular type composite where you're

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Speaker 1: trying to tune bending properties and torsional properties, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things out there. Lacrosse is another one. Even baseball,

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Speaker 1: the Major League still use wood bats, but you go

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Speaker 1: to the college ranks and the high school ranks and

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Speaker 1: even predominantly in league now it's all composite bats. So

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Speaker 1: you've got the same type thing. You've got a a

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Speaker 1: flexing tubular structure that's using being used to impact something

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to optimize that impact, and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to optimize the flight of this projectile or ball after

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Speaker 1: that impact. So there's a lot of parallels there with baseball,

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Speaker 1: at least the new composite bats in baseball as well.

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Speaker 3: What about pole vaulting, Have there been another one there

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Speaker 3: that made similar.

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Speaker 2: Or John D.

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Speaker 1: Pol No, I never tried it.

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Speaker 2: I mean tomorrow, let's get it.

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Speaker 1: Hey, let's go. I know somebody that makes polevallt polls.

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Speaker 1: One of our vendors makes pole vault polls. They are

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Speaker 1: made the same way, but as you can imagine, it's

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Speaker 1: a much bigger set of tools, much bigger ovens to

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00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 1: cure these things and pole volt polls. They use a

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Speaker 1: lot of glass because you've seen pole vaulters. The way

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00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: those things bend, the amount of that goes into You

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Speaker 1: need a structure that's got a lot of give to it.

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Speaker 1: Glass has a lot of give to it. Certain types

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Speaker 1: of graphite don't have so much give. If you took

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Speaker 1: one of our graphite shafts and tried to bend it

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Speaker 1: as much as some of those pullvall poles bend, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to like what happens.

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Speaker 3: And by glass, you mean fiberglass. Fiberglass, right, yeah, very flexible.

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Speaker 4: Not glass behind you. Well, John, we appreciate the time.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, I mean when you walk me through

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Speaker 4: the lab. But I guess we were joking the other day.

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Speaker 4: You start in the freezer, and you go to an oven,

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Speaker 4: and then you go to the paint room. I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't think people quite understand the process that it

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Speaker 4: takes to make a high end shaft, and so you

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Speaker 4: revealing that to me has been incredible. Hopefully you're given

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Speaker 4: a little bit of insight into the world and where

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00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 4: it's going. Will help a lot of the golfers out

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Speaker 4: there understand what they're playing with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate the time to try and inform people. Mean,

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Speaker 1: a lot of golfers they don't really care where their

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Speaker 1: equipment comes from or how it's made. But there is

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Speaker 1: a growing contingency out there that is very very curious

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Speaker 1: about how is this done, why is this better for me?

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Speaker 1: What can I do to improve my game? And you know,

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Speaker 1: knowledge is never a bad.

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Speaker 2: Time, that's right.

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Speaker 4: We like the curious golfer on this podcast. This is

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Speaker 4: the Pink proven Grounds podcast.