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Speaker 1: Everybody is Bill Portney with an army and normal folks.

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Speaker 1: And we continue now a part two of our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Melissa O'Neill. Right after these brief messages from our general.

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Speaker 2: Sponsors, that's when I started working with Foster the Family

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Speaker 2: doing the childcare. These are the things that make me excited.

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Speaker 2: Is like finding these small, creative ways to give back.

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Speaker 2: I personally love writing hand written notes, just something I've

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Speaker 2: always really enjoyed. And through working as a childcare volunteer,

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Speaker 2: I've realized a lot about being a nonprofit staff member.

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Speaker 3: And two things are very very true.

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Speaker 2: Your donors are often your most important stakeholder that you

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Speaker 2: have to report to, because if you don't get funding,

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Speaker 2: you can't keep the lights on. And two, you never

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Speaker 2: have enough time to do what you need to do.

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Speaker 2: So for Foster the Family, and I think this is

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Speaker 2: common in a lot of places, they felt it was

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Speaker 2: very meaningful to write handwritten think you notes to all

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Speaker 2: their donors, and I love to write handwritten notes, so

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Speaker 2: I started writing handwritten thank you notes for them, and

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Speaker 2: it was such a small thing, but I know, because

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Speaker 2: I know the staff, that it was helpful to them

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Speaker 2: because they're just so busy, and so it was just

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Speaker 2: another small thing that I got to do that kind

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Speaker 2: of added to me supporting and I just think finding

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Speaker 2: creative ways like that when I think about it being

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Speaker 2: a part of my identity, like that's what I mean.

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Speaker 2: There's been so many times in my life where I've

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Speaker 2: been able to say, Okay, what do I want in

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Speaker 2: my life, and how can I find an opportunity to

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Speaker 2: combine that with what someone else might need support in

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Speaker 2: in a community driven way? And so I did that.

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Speaker 2: They have a delivery program that I was a driver for.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I can do some driving, put

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Speaker 2: on a podcast. I'll listen to the army of normal

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Speaker 2: folks while I drive around found And the other thing

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Speaker 2: that I've been a part of that we haven't mentioned

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Speaker 2: that also kind of started at the beginning of my

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Speaker 2: cost of journey was the giving Circles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which, by the way, if you want to hear

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Speaker 1: an end up story out of the giving circle, you

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Speaker 1: can go to the.

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Speaker 4: Fno deal with in fact one hundred there you go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's very certainificate it.

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Speaker 1: Is so funny, Yeah, that we have done stories on

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Speaker 1: the people who either founded or were very involved founding

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Speaker 1: or managing the very things that you've done. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you talk about how this bigger world is such a

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Speaker 1: small old place. Yeah, it's very cool. So giving circle,

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Speaker 1: how'd that happen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I'll I'll answer that, especially.

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Speaker 1: Especially since we're starting six Army Normal Folks chapters soon

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Speaker 1: and giving Circles is going to be part of each

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Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, So why don't you just be a

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Speaker 1: tell us your story and be a commercial for it?

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Speaker 3: Of course? Yeah, yeah, I will.

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Speaker 2: I also also just want to add that I think

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Speaker 2: there are so many ways out there to get involved

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Speaker 2: in a way that doesn't disrupt your normal life. It's

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Speaker 2: really a matter of finding them, and I think this

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Speaker 2: was part of what Rachel experienced, is like it's very

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Speaker 2: hard to find them, but I think if you invest

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Speaker 2: a little bit of time, you can you can find

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Speaker 2: the places that you can.

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Speaker 1: Can. Really, pretty much every week there's an episode that

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Speaker 1: tells you about something you can get involved in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So okay, so go Rachel. You're speaking of Rachel Cohen,

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, a right.

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Speaker 2: So, at my training to become a COSA, the very

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Speaker 2: first day of the training that you know, they wanted

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Speaker 2: you to get your know your neighbors and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: introduce yourself to the person sitting next to you, and

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Speaker 2: tell each other, like how you found this, why you're here,

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Speaker 2: And there are probably like twenty people in the room.

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Speaker 2: I happened to be sitting next to someone who had

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Speaker 2: heard about Kasa through her giving circle, and so she

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Speaker 2: started to explaining to me what it was, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I've never heard of this. So basically, what

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Speaker 2: a giving circle is is it's a group of individuals

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Speaker 2: who collectively donate an amount of money, get together, figure

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Speaker 2: out how they want to allocate that funding to a

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Speaker 2: local nonprofit, do a democratic vote, and then collectively do that.

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Speaker 3: So the reason I'm explaining it, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Everybody getting their money together and then deciding this is

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Speaker 1: who we're going to give them money to. Because your

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Speaker 1: fifty dollars may not go very far by itself, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but a thousand of you pick a number, four hundred

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Speaker 1: of you giving fifty dollars makes a big enough dent

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Speaker 1: that if you give all of it to one organization,

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Speaker 1: that that amount of money could make a massive impact.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, that's the idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And the reason I described it so vaguely

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Speaker 2: is because through my experience, I've seen so many different

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Speaker 2: variations of what that actually looks like. And so I

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Speaker 2: think that's also a really great thing about giving circles

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Speaker 2: is like the concept is simple, and in reality you

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Speaker 2: can make it whatever you want, which is which is

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Speaker 2: really great and is a part of my journey as well.

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Speaker 2: So this particular one, it's called Many Hands DC. It's

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Speaker 2: been around for many many hands, Many Hands CC. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's been around for at least twenty years, and it

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Speaker 2: started with.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a I do math. I'm a

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Speaker 3: numbers person. But it's early.

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Speaker 4: It's not early. It's twelve thirteen.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for that, all right, all right, just don't

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of pressure. One hundred women giving one

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars to be one hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Grant and I interject in here to add some color

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Speaker 1: to your own story. Sure, because the woman who started

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Speaker 1: it told me this is what I love the most

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely she got pissed.

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Speaker 1: So I don't remember what they were raising money for, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she and all the wives and women got together

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Speaker 1: and they spent hours making cookies and bake cakes and

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Speaker 1: doing what the typical women thing was, and they worked

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Speaker 1: their ass off for weeks on end to put it

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Speaker 1: all together and put together this thing, and they had

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Speaker 1: a bake sale and a whatever sale and they were

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Speaker 1: so proud of raising six thousand dollars. And then the

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Speaker 1: guys got together and they wrote a check for twenty

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Speaker 1: five and she's like, how did they outperform us four

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Speaker 1: to one when they didn't do a thing. And she said,

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Speaker 1: here's how it went. Her husband went to the golf

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Speaker 1: course and rounded up all those golf course buddies on

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Speaker 1: Saturday and said, hey, buddy, give me a check for

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Speaker 1: three hundred bucks I needed for this. And the guy

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Speaker 1: said all right, and they got them checked and twenty

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Speaker 1: five thousand dollars showed up with almost no work. And

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Speaker 1: she's like, why are we killing ourselves in the freaking kitchen,

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Speaker 1: Like it's seventeen twenty two. I have girlfriends that can

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Speaker 1: write checks, and I'm going to start a giving circle

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Speaker 1: and do it like the boys do, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to do it better than them.

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Speaker 3: I love it that. That's amazing. I've never heard that.

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Speaker 1: Actually, that's the truth told me.

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Speaker 3: I know I listened to a lot of them, but

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Speaker 3: I didn't listen to that one.

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Speaker 1: I need to. So anyway, you're the past a girl

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Speaker 1: and you're introducing and she says giving circle and you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: tell me about that, and then you go down the

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Speaker 1: giving circle tunnel.

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Speaker 2: So then I'm just immediately like so excited about this opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Not not for me personally.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't even about collecting, like collectively giving the funds,

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Speaker 2: although I did think that was really cool. It was

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Speaker 2: about learning about the nonprofits because part of what happened.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's interesting because you get to learn about so

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Speaker 1: many nonprofits by thinking about who you're going to give to. Yes.

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Speaker 2: And remember, at this point in time, I'm thinking I

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Speaker 2: want to switch my career into the nonprofit space, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know anything. So I'm like, what a perfect opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to understand so much, and so I donate.

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Speaker 2: I join a grants committee, which was an incredible experience.

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Speaker 2: I think I did it for three years, took a break,

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Speaker 2: and then did it again.

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Speaker 1: I read that on the grants committee. I'm curious because

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Speaker 1: I don't know this. The grants committee, I guess, gets

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Speaker 1: submissions for whatever amount you're going to give away, and

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Speaker 1: then you guys, evaluate who you're going to grant the

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Speaker 1: money to. Is that is that right or wrong?

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Speaker 2: So this is where it really depends on what giving

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Speaker 2: circle you're talking about. So for Many Hands DC specifically

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Speaker 2: it is because it is one hundred thousand dollars grant.

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Speaker 2: They do have a formal grant application, surely right annually. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's actually much more than that. Now they give partner grants.

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Speaker 2: I'll explain how it works in a second. That are

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Speaker 2: typically in recent years have been around sixty thousand, so

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Speaker 2: they give almost I would say, yeah, like three hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand ish, probably a little more than that every year.

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Speaker 2: It's typically unrestricted funding, which, if you know anything about

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Speaker 2: funding in the nonprofit space, is very important. An issue

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Speaker 2: I care deeply about the way that it works for

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Speaker 2: that particular giving circle is they have four different issue areas.

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Speaker 2: The nonprofit's in the community do apply, they get separated

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Speaker 2: into the different issue areas, and then each issue area

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Speaker 2: has a grants committee. So I was on an issue

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Speaker 2: area grants committee for Economic Empowerment. We as a team

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Speaker 2: reviewed the applications, narrowed it down, selected some did some

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Speaker 2: site visits, narrowed it down, and then selected our winner

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Speaker 2: at the end of that process, which was a multi

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Speaker 2: week process. It was a pretty pretty big lift for

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Speaker 2: someone working full time. I will say most of the

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Speaker 2: members were not working full time. The only option of

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Speaker 2: a grants committee that was not meeting like Tuesday at

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Speaker 2: eleven am was economic empowerment, which also is probably what

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Speaker 2: I would have chosen, But they've come a long way.

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Speaker 2: They've adjusted a lot of that. But we select semi finalists.

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Speaker 2: So there's four and so there are four organizations who

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Speaker 2: are kind of up for the Impact grant, which is

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Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars. Then there's an event where anyone

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Speaker 2: you don't have to be on the Grants Committee, but

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Speaker 2: anyone who's donated is.

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Speaker 3: Able to come. Here are these four organizations pitch their organizations.

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Speaker 3: It's a democratic vote. Everyone gets one vote, and one

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Speaker 3: of them walks away with one hundred thousand dollars. And

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Speaker 3: then that's where the partner grants come in, so the

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Speaker 3: other three split whatever extra funds have been raised, which

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Speaker 3: again I think last year was like sixty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: for each partner.

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Speaker 1: That's also the part I love about it is that

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Speaker 1: if you gave money, your vote counts equal yep. And democratically,

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Speaker 1: everybody who gave their money gets together, yeah, and votes,

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Speaker 1: and whoever gets the most votes gets all the money,

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Speaker 1: and everybody's happy at the end of it. And if

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Speaker 1: you didn't win this year, apply next because we're going

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Speaker 1: to do it every year. Yep. That's awesome. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: it feels so organic, and it also becomes a movement

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Speaker 1: simply by getting together and writing checks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: How cool is that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think that I would say probably across

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Speaker 2: the giving circle landscape, like most of the membership is

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Speaker 2: done through like personal referrals and things, so it really

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Speaker 2: is a.

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Speaker 3: Movement in that sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean there are ways to find them.

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Speaker 2: If you're curious to look one up in your in

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Speaker 2: your community, you can.

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Speaker 1: But if you give your thousand dollars away to some innocuous,

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Speaker 1: well known five oh one c three, that's beautiful, it's great,

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Speaker 1: but you don't really know where that money's going. You

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Speaker 1: get an idea and you trust the organization. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it's a bad thing, but in a giving circle

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Speaker 1: you actually have a voice in it and you get

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Speaker 1: to understand exactly where the money's going for the presentations

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Speaker 1: and all that's one of the things. I love them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I love so much about it. Yeah, it's awesome.

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Speaker 2: I think another really really great thing that happens that

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Speaker 2: is really like kind of an unintended benefit.

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Speaker 3: Is a lot of nonprofits actually don't really know each other.

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Speaker 2: And for ours, because all of the finalists are different

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Speaker 2: issue areas, they don't really know each other. And I

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Speaker 2: think we've seen I think there's at least two examples

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Speaker 2: from the five years that I've been a part of it,

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Speaker 2: where two of the finalists actually come out of that

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Speaker 2: event that night with a collaboration and working together that yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is again not a part of what it was

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Speaker 2: supposed to do. But when you think about people, like

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Speaker 2: people usually need support in multiple areas, and so when

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Speaker 2: you can introduce these amazing leaders to each other and

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Speaker 2: they really get to understand, you know, different solutions that

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Speaker 2: are maybe in the same geographical area, they can come

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Speaker 2: up with really creative partnerships that.

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Speaker 3: I think it's really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: For our listeners. The scope, I think Impact for one

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Speaker 1: hundred over to existence with all its chapters has given

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Speaker 1: away over two hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 5: So it's Impact one hundred. They given over one hundred

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Speaker 5: and twenty million away. It was last summer.

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Speaker 1: I saw a one hundred and twenty million.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but actually their biggest one so Pensacola, which is

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Speaker 5: one of the poorest counties in Florida, and yet they

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Speaker 5: give away like one point two million a year.

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Speaker 4: So they called you a million dollars.

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Speaker 5: Someday they give one hundred to like twelve different one

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Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars grants.

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Speaker 3: Incredible, Sae, Yeah, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: You did the giving circle.

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Speaker 2: I did, and I loved it. And one of the

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Speaker 2: things that I believe about again kind of tying it

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Speaker 2: back to like believing this is just a part of

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Speaker 2: who I am and it kind of shifts with different

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Speaker 2: seasons of life, was like I was able to do

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Speaker 2: the Grants Committee multiple years, and then I had a

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Speaker 2: year where I just I knew I couldn't do that,

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Speaker 2: and so I was able to step back, still donated

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Speaker 2: the money, still got to vote, still got to attend

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Speaker 2: that last conference, but I didn't have to invest in

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Speaker 2: much of that year because for my personal situation, I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: And then the next year is like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I've got more time this year, I'll do it again. Right,

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Speaker 2: And so I just think that that was really beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Along the way, I also kind of had this idea that, like,

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Speaker 2: it just doesn't even have to be that formal, like

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Speaker 2: why why couldn't we do this on an even smaller scale,

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Speaker 2: and also with kind of the demographics, like and just

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Speaker 2: the amount of work and everything like, it wasn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: something that I and also the amount to buy into

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Speaker 2: it, it wasn't necessarily something that I felt like I could

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Speaker 2: really recommend to like all of my peers. There were

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Speaker 2: some that I'd talk to about it, but it just

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Speaker 2: felt like maybe like a little bit too big.

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Speaker 3: Of a first step.

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Speaker 2: So I decided I thought about this for years, and

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Speaker 2: I decided to create my own gifting circle. And this

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Speaker 2: is where I said, you know, you said your kids

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Speaker 2: are government employees, Like that's okay.

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Speaker 3: That this could work.

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Speaker 2: Essentially, I just got my friends together. I said, hey,

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Speaker 2: instead of going to brunch, let's go to a park.

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Speaker 2: I'll bring some snacks. Let's donate whatever you would have

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Speaker 2: spent at brunch. Didn't even set an amount. People people

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Speaker 2: donated different amounts, And let's just talk about a couple

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Speaker 2: of nonprofits and pick one.

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Speaker 3: And so we did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So that's essentially what people did. And you know,

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Speaker 2: it was it was a small group.

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Speaker 3: It was very casual. I brought my baby. There were

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Speaker 3: two babies there.

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Speaker 2: We like laughed at the babies playing while we kind

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Speaker 2: of talked about different orgs and you know, as the host,

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Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot of time to invest, so

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Speaker 2: I went to chat GBT, asked for some local nonprofits,

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Speaker 2: did a little bit of I was checking with some

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Speaker 2: sites that I wanted to make sure they at least

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Speaker 2: have great financials and all that.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't really overthink it.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't going to be a huge dollar amount, so

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Speaker 2: I didn't feel like there was a lot of a

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Speaker 2: lot of pressure there. But it was so fun and

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Speaker 2: I just I feel like, what a fulfilling way to

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Speaker 2: spend a Sunday morning.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. We'll be right back, your own

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Speaker 1: personal brunch circle or whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 3: It's a giving circle.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's a small it's a it's a little

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Speaker 1: giving circle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then in the middle of it, you and

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Speaker 1: your husband decide let's be foster parents.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

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Speaker 1: Works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And the beauty of this story is the first

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Speaker 1: few opportunities you said no, yeah, doesn't fit us, yea,

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Speaker 1: and then when something fit you, you stepped up and said yes.

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Speaker 1: And you may or may not do it again. But

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Speaker 1: you're a normal person who saw her in need and

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Speaker 1: through Kasa and the way you explained that you felt

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Speaker 1: kind of growing up. You gave that a shot. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about that experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, see.

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Speaker 1: You're kind of a Swiss army and jumping all around.

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Speaker 1: I really doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: Just go this is where it goes back to, like,

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Speaker 2: it's just part of who I am and that looks

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Speaker 2: different in different seasons.

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Speaker 3: And I your husband, Yeah, yeah, of course couldn't know it.

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Speaker 4: Doubt him.

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Speaker 1: No way you do this without him rooting you on.

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Speaker 3: No, definitely not, and I would.

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Speaker 2: I'll also expand that to our families, right, both both

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Speaker 2: sids of parents.

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Speaker 3: We got it from them, so big shout out to us.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about the foster things.

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Speaker 2: I mean really though, it's it's interesting, like I always

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Speaker 2: wanted to do it, I was always interested in it.

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Speaker 3: It's part of why I became a CASA.

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Speaker 2: When I was doing childcare for foster the family I

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Speaker 2: met so many foster families. The youth were amazing and credible,

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Speaker 2: normal kids, totally wonderful. I got to see a lot

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Speaker 2: of them change through their placements with their families and

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Speaker 2: just see kind of the value that that sense safe

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Speaker 2: home space can give and that sense of structure, And

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Speaker 2: you know, I was ready to start my own family.

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Speaker 2: Didn't necessarily go as planned, right and I kind of

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Speaker 2: just decided, you know, I'm tired of waiting.

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Speaker 3: We're going to do it.

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Speaker 4: So I want a family one way or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in reality, I was kind of in

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Speaker 2: a place where I was like, I don't have control

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Speaker 2: over one side of this, but I have total control

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Speaker 2: over the other. I mean, we've been talking about doing

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Speaker 2: it for years, so it wasn't a matter of like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do this. It was more of like, well,

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Speaker 2: we'll just do it now, because we always want to

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Speaker 2: do it anyway, why not now. So again, it's a

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Speaker 2: phased process, and I think that's really important. When I

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Speaker 2: did take that first step, I wasn't one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: sure that I was ready to do it right now,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't have to be, so I just took

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Speaker 2: the first step and I signed up for the info session.

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Speaker 3: We learned a lot. My husband and I did it together.

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Speaker 2: Again, we'd been talking about it, but I knew way

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Speaker 2: more than he did, so I was like, this is

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Speaker 2: great for him to hear kind of from someone else.

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Speaker 2: We attended the information session. It felt like something we

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Speaker 2: wanted to keep doing, so then we took the next step.

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Speaker 2: The next step was the training, which was a pretty

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Speaker 2: big commitment. It was five weeks in a row of

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Speaker 2: like three hours I think once a week, and at

385
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Speaker 2: least five hours of homework in between. I'll also say,

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Speaker 2: for anyone interested, every single agency looks different. So this

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Speaker 2: process is not necessarily what your process would look like.

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Speaker 3: This is just what our process looked like from what.

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Speaker 1: We've heard, and we've interviewed a lot of foship people.

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Speaker 1: They are different, but they're very similar in terms of

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Speaker 1: the amount of training required.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's how.

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Speaker 1: It's given to you and digested seems a lot different

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Speaker 1: depending on where you are, but the training is similar.

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Speaker 2: I would agree and add that I think that's true

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Speaker 2: for and any agency that I would recommend. I think

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Speaker 2: there are agencies out there that do not do a

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Speaker 2: thorough process, and that's where you get a lot of

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Speaker 2: the families better in it for the money, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And typically the county who does the placements knows who

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Speaker 2: those agencies are and those are the last choice placement.

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Speaker 2: But when you don't have home, you have to exactly

403
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Speaker 2: because we've.

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Speaker 1: Heard the stories of children sleeping on the floors of

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Speaker 1: government office buildings because there's literally no home for them

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Speaker 1: to go to. Yeah, and that's heartbreaking that a child

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Speaker 1: who's already gone through probably enormous amounts of trauma and dysfunction,

408
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Speaker 1: who is in the throes of the trauma and dysfunction

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Speaker 1: of being taken out of a home, now sleeping on

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Speaker 1: the floor of a government office because they have nowhere

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Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, I mean I.

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Speaker 4: Almost have brought that up from the funny par of it.

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Speaker 5: And she talked about bringing her husband to the training

414
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Speaker 5: and him not knowing as much. So you remember that

415
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 5: very episode. So Isaiah won seventeen house you haven't heard it,

416
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 5: you'll love it. But they they started these homes where

417
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Speaker 5: kids in that transition period can stay while they're waiting

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Speaker 5: for playing and the one in Shelby County just opened

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Speaker 5: up Methois. Yeah, and they have like thirty of these

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Speaker 5: across the country. But she tricked her husband into going

421
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Speaker 5: to the training. She said, hey, honey, let's have a

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Speaker 5: date on and they showed up.

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Speaker 1: To a church for the church with training and serious

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Speaker 1: and she said, yep, sit.

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Speaker 2: Here, that's so funny. Charles's virtuals So that wouldn't have work.

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Speaker 1: So you got your training. It was a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we did the training and the training lasted

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Speaker 2: for five years, so again we didn't have to commit

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Speaker 2: to doing it immediately, but we knew that if we

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Speaker 2: did the trade.

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Speaker 1: Training didn't go on for five years, you were certified

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Speaker 1: for five years.

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Speaker 3: Yep, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So we were like, great, we'll do the training, we'll

435
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Speaker 2: see what happened the end of the five weeks. We

436
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Speaker 2: can redecide, you know, whatever we want to. Decided to

437
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Speaker 2: keep moving forward. Did the home study. Same thing. Once

438
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Speaker 2: you complete a home study, you don't have to open

439
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: your home right away. With our agency, it lasted for

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Speaker 2: two years, so again, could have gone through the entire

441
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,479
Speaker 2: home study process and not taken a kid for up

442
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,439
Speaker 2: to two years and at least we would have been

443
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,239
Speaker 2: ready to. But you know, as life would have it,

444
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,919
Speaker 2: we just kept going with it. So went through the

445
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,199
Speaker 2: process went through the home study, and I think it

446
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 2: was like the week we got our home study certification,

447
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: found out I was pregnant, which was just so ironic.

448
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 3: But a beautiful part of our story. So we we

449
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 3: had talked about it, and we had talked about it

450
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: before we did the home study, because the thing about

451
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 3: the home study is, I just.

452
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 1: Think it's funny that, yeah, you're going through all the

453
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 1: studying of foster parenting, but clearly you're going home after

454
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: those meetings and making your own baby. I mean, the

455
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: point is not quite sure, but the point is you're

456
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: going through this foster thing while also making babies of

457
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: your own. I mean, it's just I think, I.

458
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 4: Tell you Bill is very similar to email.

459
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's ironic as it could be.

460
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's a false choice to say

461
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 2: you have to do one or the other.

462
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,920
Speaker 3: And I've always felt that No I didn't say, well,

463
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: I know you didn't, but some people might think I

464
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 3: think it's hilarious.

465
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: So you're ready to go, and hey, yeah, you're so.

466
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, But so we had decided so to back up

467
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: just a step. When you go through the home study

468
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 2: as a foster parent, which which some agencies will call

469
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: you a resource parent.

470
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: So just a resource parent.

471
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: I think it's like the more modern appropriate way to

472
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: say it. But I don't think the foster one is

473
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: quite something you shouldn't say.

474
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 3: I just like.

475
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: Myself a person extra blubber, I'm just fat, and so

476
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 1: I just say it. So I don't even understand we want.

477
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not an ex pierson. I'm not a

478
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: person experiencing a different level of hair pigment. I'm a fat,

479
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: red headed guy. That's just the way it is.

480
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: You've lost some good weight though, Actually, when I'm coming

481
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 4: in here to.

482
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: Less staff, less red headed guy because I'm getting older. So,

483
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't understand the language.

484
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 5: I think it's important to be respectful when we can.

485
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 5: Yeah I'm not woke, but I think it's important to

486
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 5: be respectful we can. But there's some of these that

487
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 5: are just stupid, and this sounds like one of them,

488
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 5: like resource parent versus.

489
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 1: I don't know.

490
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: I wouldn't go that far as something.

491
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: Did you feel like a resource parent or a foster parent?

492
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 3: You know, I felt like a parent.

493
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: You know what A beautiful answer.

494
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 3: I think that's really what it is.

495
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful time.

496
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 4: One of us is serious.

497
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you just throw a wrench in the

498
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: whole funny part. But I mean, I just know it's true.

499
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: You felt like a bear.

500
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: Yeah they I mean sure, did they feel like this

501
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: my biological child? No, but that's because I didn't know

502
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: what happened.

503
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: To them for the first like resource children neither, So

504
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: go ahead.

505
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 3: Or foster, I don't know.

506
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: I just I get it.

507
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 3: I don't know. They're just kids. I'm just a parent,

508
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: I'm an adult. They're a child.

509
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 4: A great pair.

510
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,719
Speaker 2: Anyway, So when you go into the third phase and

511
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 2: they do the home study, as the foster parents, you

512
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: you don't do a lot, Like most of the time

513
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: invested is actually from the agency, and so they do

514
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: the background checks, they do interview, but they have to

515
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: write up the reports. They come to your home study.

516
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: But they again, they're putting in the effort more so

517
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 2: than we were. So, I mean, my husband and I

518
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: made an agreement that if we did that phase, getting

519
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: pregnant would not be a reason to back out.

520
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: Is essentially what we agreed.

521
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 2: On, because we weren't going to let the county invest

522
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: their very limited resources in us just to say, oh no,

523
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: just kidding, we're not going to do this. So anyway,

524
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: so when we got pregnant, it was never a question.

525
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: We were like, yep, full swing ahead.

526
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: Sounded like civic responsibility at its best right there, just.

527
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: Carrying about the people, yeah, that you work with, and

528
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: not not just thinking about what's best for you, but

529
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: really thinking about what makes sense for everyone. So we said, okay,

530
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: we're still going to move forward. And it was middle

531
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: of August. Well, we got a couple of calls that

532
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 2: we couldn't take. As you mentioned, at this time, we're

533
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: in Arlington, yea, and yeah, so we opened our home.

534
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 2: We get a couple of calls.

535
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: The ones that were nose they didn't in your age

536
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: range or I mean.

537
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 3: It was a couple of things. There was some age range.

538
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: There was some timing.

539
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: They actually called us for a couple of placements before

540
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: we were like actually mentally ready to be to be open.

541
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: That's fair.

542
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they teach you, they they taught us this

543
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 2: in the training. They said, we want this to be

544
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 2: a successful placement. We want this to be a positive

545
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: experience for not only the child, but also for you.

546
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: We want we don't we know there's a problem with

547
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: foster families, like doing it once and then saying oh

548
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: my gosh, I could never do this again and not

549
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 2: and stopping right.

550
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: They didn't want that, so they said, we will ask.

551
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: You, but we want you guys to really think about

552
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 2: what you feel ready to handle and don't get and

553
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: don't feel bad about it.

554
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: A lot easier said than done. You still feel bad

555
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: every time you say no.

556
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: For sure.

557
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 3: You can't help it.

558
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: It's like when you go pick out a puppy. Yeah, no, seriously,

559
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: if you go pick out a puppy, you go home

560
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: with one that you really love, but in the back

561
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: of your mind you're like, oh, left those sweet ones

562
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: there totally. I mean, it's weird, but you have this

563
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: weird good I.

564
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 2: Think you know somewhere I heard this, Like people don't

565
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: really think about foster care or they say, oh, I

566
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 2: could never do that, But like if someone showed up

567
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: on your front door with a kid who didn't have

568
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: a place to say, would you say no? It's kind

569
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: of that idea, right, Like once you once you see

570
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: it and you know that there's a need, it's really

571
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: hard to say no. So when they call you and

572
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: I actually got a call yesterday and they say, you

573
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: got a call yesterday.

574
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, with a non month old.

575
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we never told him we weren't gonna We

576
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 3: never told him to stop calling us.

577
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 4: So but yeah, I.

578
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: Mean we said no, you work, your husband works, and

579
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: you got a nine month old. That's hard.

580
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: It is very hard.

581
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: I think we're still trying to figure out what what

582
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: our foster journey looks like in the coming months, years,

583
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: et cetera. But we haven't said no to it, so

584
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 2: we're kind of taking it day by day.

585
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm bouncing.

586
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: It's my fault, that's okay, So I bounce, I know

587
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: a couple of times, yes, and but ultimately we end

588
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: up saying, yes, we were certified for two children, but

589
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: we told them because we were now expecting that we

590
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: can only take one. So we take one.

591
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: Boy.

592
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: He shows up on a Thursday night, hold ten.

593
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: About the same age you were, and you went to Mexico.

594
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of crazy. I didn't think about that.

595
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 2: Very overwhelming experience for everyone involved. You know, you don't

596
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 2: know what it's going to look like until you're in it,

597
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 2: and even then it's like you just roll with it.

598
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: If you feel like a holy crap moment, like oh

599
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: my gosh.

600
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean maybe after he went to bed.

601
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: I think when when he first showed up, it's like,

602
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 2: you know you just like I'm here for him, you

603
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: know whatever, whatever makes sense.

604
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: Can I ask a question? This is one that I've

605
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: maybe I've heard too many of these stories now after

606
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: doing this and read too much about it. A lot

607
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 1: of times I have a guest and then I get

608
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: in what the guest's talking about, and then I go

609
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: down this deep dark hole reading way too much about

610
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: what the gut and some of this is that too.

611
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: And I do not want to victim blame here, especially

612
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: as it comes to children. I don't want to sensationalize it.

613
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: But I'm just stating truth from what I've read, is

614
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: that some of these kids come from very abusive places,

615
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: and their reaction to that oftentimes manifests itself in detachment.

616
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: It also will manifest itself in anger. It will manifest

617
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: itself in cutting oneself, It will manifest itself in twelve

618
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: year old bedwetting. It will manifest itself in so many

619
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: horrific ways due to the wrongs done to an innocent

620
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: child over the course of many years oftentimes as well

621
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: as what a child feels about himself when he has

622
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: been neglected, because oftentimes a child's self worth is so

623
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: diminished by neglect that they don't even feel like they're

624
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: worth investing in, which is horrifically heartbreaking. So it's I

625
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: just and I'm not talking about your specific situation. I'm

626
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: just on it in general. You had to have known

627
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: all of these possibilities exist when the skid was showing up.

628
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: Is it not petrifying? Oh?

629
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, But I also.

630
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: Looking face first, it's like a dog chasing park cars.

631
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you're going rough for a whack. I mean

632
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: you're you're going down this path, but you know that

633
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: there's this park car smack you in the face. Event

634
00:30:51,040 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. We'll be right back, We'll be

635
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 1: right back.

636
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: I also remember had a lot of experience directly with

637
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: foster youth and directly with foster parents.

638
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: And yeah, there saw experience.

639
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 2: That there are also a lot of situations where the

640
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: behaviors that manifest are a lot more manageable. They're still challenging,

641
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: but they're not scary, I guess. And I also got

642
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: to see how some of those challenging behaviors improved over time. Right,

643
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: I was doing childcare for the same group of kids

644
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: monthly over course of year.

645
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: Two years.

646
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot more fear than is probably reality.

647
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: Really for the age range that we elected.

648
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 3: Which was not teenage difficult. Yeah, yeah, so our age

649
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 3: range was two to ten.

650
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: All right, So this ten year old kid.

651
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: Shows up, shows up, yep, and we're in it.

652
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 2: And we said from the beginning, you know, unless there's

653
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: a safety concern, like, we will not kick a kid

654
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: out of our home. Right once he's here, he's here

655
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 2: for as long as he needs to be here. We

656
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 2: were open to adoption if that was going to be

657
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: something that happened. That wasn't our primary goal, but we weren't.

658
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: We weren't against it. So we're just in it. And

659
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: there were four kids that were removed at the same time.

660
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: So the next morning the departatives kids.

661
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, you're large family.

662
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. I don't want to get to it.

663
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: I don't know.

664
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: That's okay, natural reaction. So that there were four children

665
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: living together, removed all the same time or in a

666
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: similar situation together.

667
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, and two of them had been placed together,

668
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: and then we had one and then there was another

669
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: one placed with another foster family, so the four children

670
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: were across three homes.

671
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: You worry about more trauma separating kids.

672
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, you always want to keep them together

673
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: when you came out. And so the next day, the

674
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 2: Department of Social Workers, they had organized an opportunity to

675
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: get the kids together so that they could at least

676
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: see each other. And then kind of everything happened at night,

677
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: so it was like the next day, kind of get

678
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: everyone together, explain a little bit more calm, doat rate

679
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: all that. While that was happening, we were informed that

680
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: the placement of the two who had been placed together

681
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: was actually going to shift and they needed a place

682
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: for the younger of the two, and they asked us

683
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: if we could take him because they didn't want the

684
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: four kids in four different places. And technically we were

685
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: certified for two kids.

686
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 3: They were both boys, and I mean it was a

687
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: no brainer, like it felt.

688
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: In twenty four hours.

689
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

690
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: Mind you.

691
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 2: I'm pregnant also with the boy, uh and I have

692
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: two boy dogs, so I just you know, love love

693
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: all the boys. We kind of like hung up the phone,

694
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: like he said, we would only take one, but like,

695
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: this is already such an overwhelming experience, like our everything

696
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: is changing anyway with the one, Like, I guess we'll

697
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 2: just take two.

698
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: So I ended up taking both of them, very very

699
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 3: glad that we did.

700
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 2: I think it was really helpful in a lot of ways.

701
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: And I don't just mean like helpful for us, I

702
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: think I mean, I guess it is helpful for us.

703
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 3: But I think I was able.

704
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: To understand both boys a lot better by actually having

705
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: both of them, because they were so different from each other.

706
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 3: Their experiences were very different. They're the way that he was.

707
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: Nine, so he's only yeah, so he was only a

708
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: few months younger, because we celebrated his tenth.

709
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 3: Birthday pretty quickly.

710
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 2: So basically it was two ten year old boys, two

711
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 2: different grades, same school, fourth and fifth grade, so both

712
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 2: in the same elementary school.

713
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,479
Speaker 3: But yeah, we had both of them.

714
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: And of course it was a lot of work, a

715
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: lot of driving, a lot of discomfort, right trying to

716
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 2: understand how.

717
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: Long before they felt home.

718
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,479
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know if they ever got

719
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 3: to it being home necessarily, but they felt comfortable pretty quick, safe,

720
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 3: very quick. Yeah, they open to you.

721
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: They were very much open to us as like these

722
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: cool adults that we lived with. Really, they definitely we

723
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 2: never pushed the mom dad thing.

724
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,760
Speaker 3: That was they knew what was going on, but they.

725
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 2: Definitely we built really great relationships with each of them

726
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,479
Speaker 2: and collectively as well.

727
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: Would they behave in mind you.

728
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know what it was, but I mean

729
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: these boys were.

730
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 3: They were great. They were great.

731
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 2: Not without challenges. Let me let me make that clear.

732
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: They tested our patients, but they're oh boys. But knowing

733
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 2: where they came from, I think they are both absolutely

734
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 2: incredible humans and are just they're just amazing.

735
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: You're talking about them in the past ten so obviously

736
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: you didn't adopt them.

737
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: So because they were not siblings, their case actually ended

738
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: up diverging, which was really tricky to navigate.

739
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 3: Not the word I choose.

740
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but one of them moved out in May after

741
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: about nine months with us. The other moved out in

742
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: September after a year with us, and I like.

743
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: You have to create some type of attachment.

744
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Every every experience very different,

745
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 2: I think with them specifically, and this is probably part

746
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: of the why I would say they never really saw

747
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: our home as home is they had a very large community,

748
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: and that was very clear from the beginning. So while

749
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 2: the home that they were in wasn't the best place

750
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: for them, it was very clear that they had extended

751
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: family and community that was a good place for them

752
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: and loved them, and we knew we knew pretty quickly

753
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: that that was most likely going to work out, that

754
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 2: they would have a very high chance of being reached

755
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: so that you were.

756
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: A very safe, loving transition for them to get back

757
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: to their family, which ultimately is the ultimate goal.

758
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: Right, Yes, that is the first that is the first priority.

759
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: It's not always possible, but when it is, it's definitely

760
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: what we wanted for them, and especially once we knew

761
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 2: the extent of the people that did care and love

762
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: and wanted to be there for them. There were some

763
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: things that had to happen to make that the right

764
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: safe call, but it was very there was in my mind.

765
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 2: There was There was very early on that I was like, oh, yeah,

766
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: there's no reason that these children should be in foster

767
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 2: care for a long time or should be up for adoption,

768
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: because they have the community is just working with the

769
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 2: county and with us to make sure that that community

770
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: is a safe place for them to live permanently.

771
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: Are you able to allowed or even incentive or disincented

772
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: to stay in touch.

773
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 2: Every situation is very different for our county. What the

774
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: principle is is it's up to It's up to the

775
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 2: child and the family of permanency. So if they're going

776
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: back to extended family, it's kind of up to the

777
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: extended family. Some want to keep that relationship and have

778
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: an extra support in their circle. Others want to forget

779
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: that it ever happened. So my role is to take

780
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: the lead of what the other family wants for our situation.

781
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: The two boys were enrolled in summer camp together, so

782
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: even though one of them moved out before the summer

783
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: started and I don't think that we will be able

784
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,479
Speaker 2: to maintain a relationship with that family. I was able

785
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: to see him quite frequently because he was in same

786
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: summer camps as the other boy, so drop off, pick

787
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: up things like that. Got to see him throughout the summer.

788
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: He's doing really great. It was very special to be

789
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: able to do that and see him the other one.

790
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 2: There is openness to maintaining that relationship and we actually

791
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: so as a foster parent, you can do a permanent placement,

792
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: or you can do a respite placement, which is a

793
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 2: short term placement that gives a break to foster parents,

794
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: and we are doing that, and we actually had him

795
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: back a couple of weeks ago just to give the

796
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: other family a break, and so we had him for

797
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 2: the weekend and it was a great time and he's

798
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: doing really well.

799
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: It was yeah, because where does this kid end up?

800
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: But not for you and your husband's willingness to provide.

801
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, who knows, right.

802
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 2: I think the thing I kind of take away from

803
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 2: it all is like, I don't know how much they.

804
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 3: Really would say, like, oh, we are.

805
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 2: So grateful for Melissa and Scott whatever, which is totally fine.

806
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: But what I think is really.

807
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: Special is that they are in a way ignorant of

808
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 2: the fact that being a foster care like being in

809
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: foster care.

810
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 3: Can be a bad thing. And I think that in

811
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 3: of itself is like really amazing. Yeah, Like I just

812
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: envision that.

813
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I envision one day them saying something to someone

814
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: and them saying, oh my gosh, that must have been

815
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: a horrible experience for you, and then being like, what are.

816
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: You talking about.

817
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we played football, you know. They made me read,

818
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: they didn't let me watch TV.

819
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 3: I had to go to bed early. But it wasn't

820
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 3: a bad experience, you know.

821
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: And there I just I just feel like they're completely,

822
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 2: hopefully just ignorant of how bad it could have been.

823
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: For that. There will be appreciation once that's oh.

824
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm not worried.

825
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: For sure. I know that you're not doing it for that,

826
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: but there's no doubt. Yeah, okay, so Kasa giving circles

827
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: faster people maybe again.

828
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 4: I got a call yesterday.

829
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: Yea. And ultimately all of this kind of no, I'm

830
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: not going to say the lynchpin or the anchor to it,

831
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: but during all of this, from Delta to moving through

832
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: to Scott's career and all of it, you want to

833
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: end up in nonprofit and now you work for Stand Together.

834
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: Everybody has heard me or Alex or Alex and me

835
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: ellude a little to Stand Together, and I'm sure people

836
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: have looked it up. Some have. Some of the lazier

837
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: listeners are just waiting for somebody to say something else.

838
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: Probably the bulk of our audience.

839
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 4: Not lazy, but they're busy.

840
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: I know, I'm kidding, I'm one of them. We'll be

841
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: right back. Tell us what Stand Together is?

842
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, tell us what you do?

843
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'll just tease out there that you call

844
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: yourself a numbers data nerd.

845
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

846
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: Sure, Well I can't remember what word you use, but

847
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: you can yourself something alone. Yeah, Yeah, which I think

848
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: is actually really cool because put me in a corner

849
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: with a graph and I'm good.

850
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

851
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 1: I love data points. I think it's interesting and it

852
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: tells stories.

853
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

854
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of questions in one. But you

855
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: probably know this as much as I do. Stand Together

856
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: is a very large, complex organization, so I can't speak

857
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 2: to all the all the wonderful and amazing things that

858
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: that it does. But at the end of the day,

859
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: it's a principles based organization that believes in some key

860
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: principles and works to partner with other amazing social entrepreneurs

861
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 2: and organizations to advance those principles through whatever scenario that

862
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 2: looks like, which is why it can be really broad.

863
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: Some of those principles are like dignity, respect, mutual benefit,

864
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 2: self actualization, and fulfillment. Really believing that kind of bottom

865
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 2: up solutions are going to be the best and most

866
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: innovative ways to address.

867
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 3: Some of our clarity problems.

868
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: Yes, why don't you give us your definition of what

869
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: bottom up is? We say that a lot. I remember

870
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: thinking the first time I heard bottom up, I'm like,

871
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: we even bottom up? Yeah, I mean, I think we

872
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: say it so much that I think some people don't

873
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: even take a second to say, you know, people may

874
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,280
Speaker 1: not even understand what we're talking about when we say totally.

875
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 2: It's going to be hard to set my view of

876
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: what that means from my job. So I'm just going

877
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: to explain my job. So what it means for me

878
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: and for my work that I do that is driven

879
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 2: by numbers.

880
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: Is I am leading what we call.

881
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: Our customer First Measurement team at the Stand Together Foundation.

882
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks.

883
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm telling you it's a big organization. So

884
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: the Stand Together Foundation is the part of Stand Together

885
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 2: that works directly with a lot of human service organizations.

886
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: And one of the things that we know is true

887
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: is that there's a big emphasis on measurement and measuring

888
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: impact and using data to decide who to fund and

889
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: all of these things. And so what happened, and this

890
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: was before my time on the team, is we took

891
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 2: our principles of bottom up solution, and we figured out

892
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: a way to represent that in a measurement strategy, a

893
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: measurement approach, and that's what we call customer first measurement.

894
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 3: So what what that means to us is that if.

895
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 2: You are running, and if you're a nonprofit leader, you

896
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: should be putting your customer first. And that customer is

897
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: not your funder which some people might think of, but

898
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: is actually the beneficiary of the individual that you're serving,

899
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 2: and you should be doing all of your measurement and

900
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 2: data collection in service of that individual or that group

901
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 2: of individuals and measure for them. And what that means,

902
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: if you think about the mental model of a customer,

903
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 2: is that their input should be driving your decision making.

904
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: So the individuals that you're serving are actually the source

905
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: of information that you need to be able to provide

906
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: the best solutions and know that your solutions are not working.

907
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: So you mean, when you go into an area poverty,

908
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: instead of telling everybody what they need, won't you just

909
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 1: shut up and ask them what they need and listen.

910
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

911
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: Essentially crazy contract.

912
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: So novel, Yeah and so, and what we find, you know,

913
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: the team finds is that our nonprofit leaders are a

914
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 2: lot of them want to do that, but there's a

915
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 2: lot of conditions that exist in the social sector that

916
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: prevent that from happening.

917
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: And so give me an example, there's no funding for it.

918
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: So I made a comment earlier about unrestricted funding that's growing,

919
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: it's gaining traction, But a lot of funding in the

920
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: social sector is airmarked specifically for programs. A lot of

921
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: times there's very limited funding that can be leveraged for

922
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: internal knowledge systems and processes that would allow you to

923
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 2: collect information from your customers.

924
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: Interesting, so it prohibits you from being able to collect information.

925
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: So then without that information, you have a hard time

926
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: judging the organization's effectiveness.

927
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, the funders do, and the nonprofits just don't have

928
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,919
Speaker 2: the tools that they want to be able to really

929
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 2: understand their customers, the individuals being served, and the real

930
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: experiences that they're having on the ground. And then and

931
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: then another part of the kind of funding dynamic we

932
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 2: experience a lot is because those programs do have to

933
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: be predetermined, there's not a lot of space for like

934
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: agility and innovation in real time.

935
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 3: And so while we believe.

936
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: That data should be primarily collected and used for better

937
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 2: decision making, which I would say most of our nonprofit

938
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: leaders agree with us. Unfortunately, a lot of times it's

939
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: used primarily to get funding, and so there's this tricky

940
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 2: it's a tricky dynamic and it's and it's really challenging

941
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: to actually get the understanding of the individuals in any

942
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: sort of kind of like aggregated form and a lot

943
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: of leaders, a lot of leaders are doing it, but

944
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: it's anecdotal. It's based off of the few conversations that

945
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: they've had with some of their stomers who are sharing

946
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: some insights. It's not systematized in the way that we

947
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 2: think could be really meaningful to the sector. So my

948
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: team specifically works on building the tools, providing the tools

949
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: and the coaching for the nonprofit leaders for them to

950
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 2: be able to collect this data. We offer some free

951
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: tools so that they don't The cost is not kind

952
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 2: of a barrier. There's still a time investment that can

953
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 2: be tricky to navigate, and we're currently working on kind

954
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,240
Speaker 2: of figuring out how we can support the UH empower

955
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: the nonprofit leaders to communicate those that data back with

956
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: some of their funders.

957
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: Is the data consumed and tracked on a term by

958
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: term basis, so that then over the course of a

959
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 1: three four five year period, you can have measurables to

960
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: see if the data and the use of the data

961
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: have actually improved the effectiveness of an organization.

962
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, if I said that the right thing, Yeah, you did,

963
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 2: definitely could be I think it looks different for different

964
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 2: orger organizations. A lot of times what happens right now

965
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: is that's the only reason why measurement is happening. Is

966
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: kind of a pre post survey or maybe an annual

967
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: survey predetermined outcomes that are kind of set in stone

968
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: over the years. And we don't necessarily think that that's bad,

969
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 2: but we also believe that if you're able to kind

970
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 2: of get feedback more regularly and more consistently, maybe three

971
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 2: four times a year, ask your individuals what outcomes they

972
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: want to see. It might not be that they got

973
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 2: a job. It might be something different. There's a really

974
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 2: great example from a colleague of mine where you know,

975
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 2: one of their outcomes was the ability to get a job,

976
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: and it was a lot of English as a second

977
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 2: language families and and say she came here too, Yeah,

978
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 2: and she you know, the outcome that the families wanted

979
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: was to be able to speak to their kids.

980
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 3: Teachers, right, and so that's a big part of it.

981
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 1: So the but once again, you wouldn't even know that

982
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: if you weren't asking the questions. Yeah, you might be

983
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: assuming that what your effort and money and everything was

984
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: going to reach a certain conclusion was a great thing,

985
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: But you wouldn't have even known that the real thing

986
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: was something completely different if you don't ask that information,

987
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: which effectively makes those who are giving of their time

988
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: better at what they're trying to accomplish, which is service.

989
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I would say, like when we think

990
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 2: about from a work perspective, like not the ways in

991
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: which people are doing impact measurement today isn't wrong. But

992
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 2: by doing it through that customer first lens, you're bringing

993
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 2: in what I would say, is that bottom up information

994
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: and feedback and ideas and context that you wouldn't necessarily

995
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 2: get unless you intentionally ask for it.

996
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: Where do you when you collect all this information, which

997
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,479
Speaker 1: is you and your group's job, where do you send

998
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: it off to?

999
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 2: We do not, No, We take the confidentiality really seriously.

1000
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: It's a big problem. A lot of times data collection

1001
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 2: and in the nonprofit space is very extractive. You ask

1002
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 2: for a lot of data from individuals and then you

1003
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 2: use it and they it doesn't really benefit them. So

1004
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 2: our survey tools where we're not always collecting data right

1005
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: sometimes we're just coaching organizations within their own systems. But

1006
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: for the organizations who do want to leverage our systems,

1007
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: they own the data. We store it, we manage it,

1008
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 2: we organize it for them, but they own it at

1009
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: the end of the day. We don't sell it, we

1010
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: don't use it. It's anonymous. We don't want to take

1011
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: on any PII risk. It is primarily there for the

1012
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: organizations to use to make decisions.

1013
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 3: And one key element of what we believe.

1014
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,240
Speaker 2: Builds trust in the process is what we call closing

1015
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 2: the loop, where we actually coach all of our organizations

1016
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 2: in how to share what they learned and what they

1017
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 2: did back with those who gave them information.

1018
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: So that's important.

1019
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 3: It is because it helps to.

1020
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: Me, it gives the people you're serving.

1021
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: Agency, yeah, and it helps them feel empowered, it helps

1022
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: them build trust.

1023
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 3: There's so many benefits to.

1024
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 2: It, and I think that's a key, a key component

1025
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,360
Speaker 2: of doing customer first that is necessary for it to

1026
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: really be as transformative as we think it can be.

1027
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 3: And as we've seen it be for some organizations.

1028
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: So how do you like it? I love it. Yeah,

1029
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: it's awesome.

1030
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1031
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,720
Speaker 2: I get to merge my my data with my people,

1032
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 2: with my service, and at the end of the day,

1033
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: I get to hear stories of incredible just like you,

1034
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: incredible nonprofit leaders and the amazing what they're doing. But

1035
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: you get to hear the stories right like your your

1036
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: work is. So it's so fulfilling because you're just constantly

1037
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 2: being there's just constant inbound good. I know how fulfilling

1038
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,279
Speaker 2: that has made my life in all aspects. And I

1039
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: just would love to convince others to just try to

1040
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 2: surround themselves with that kind of information, whether it's through podcasts,

1041
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 2: small acts of service, et cetera. Because I think once

1042
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 2: you start, you'll just speed onto it and you'll keep

1043
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 2: going and you'll just go deeper and deeper, and who knows,

1044
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 2: maybe you'll become a foster parent like me who is,

1045
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 2: which I actually don't recommend for everyone, So not trying

1046
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: to push that on anyone.

1047
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we say it often, and if you've listened to

1048
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: some of the shows, i'd be shocked if you hadn't

1049
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: rd me say it. But I think the magic happens

1050
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: when a particular passion and ability intersect with opportunity, and

1051
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,359
Speaker 1: those passions and abilities are wildly varied indifferent. You had

1052
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: a passion for kids and an interest in specifically the

1053
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: foster system at a young age, and you have the

1054
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 1: ability and the opportunity, and there it is that is

1055
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: going to be wildly different than many other people. But

1056
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that they don't have a passion, ability

1057
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 1: and an opportunity and something completely separate. And that, to

1058
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 1: me is kind of the secret sauce of the army

1059
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: of normal folks. If we have millions of people not

1060
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, but just employing their own passions

1061
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: and ability at places of opportunity, there's a different story

1062
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: under every hat.

1063
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you don't mind, there is an analogy that

1064
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: I would love to share that I think about and

1065
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 2: I think ties really beautifully into that. And actually it

1066
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 2: came to me with Rachel's podcast with You that I

1067
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 2: was listening to to talk about moral running. When you

1068
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 2: think about running, I don't think you're gonna just say

1069
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: one day I'm going to run a marathon.

1070
00:54:59,000 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: Right.

1071
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: You might say, oh, running seems interesting, I might try

1072
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 2: that I'm gonna go run a mile, and you could

1073
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 2: run one mile. That could be the furthest distance you

1074
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 2: ever run in your life. You could do it a

1075
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,839
Speaker 2: couple of times you are a runner. Other people might

1076
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: decide to push it a little further, run a five k, run,

1077
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: a ten k, ten mileer, et cetera. Some people are

1078
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 2: gonna go run marathons, some people are gonna go run

1079
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: ultra marathons. All of you are runners, and all of

1080
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 2: you are a part of that community. And that's how

1081
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 2: I feel about my experience with service. And when I

1082
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 2: think of the army of normal folks, that's what I

1083
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: see us. Such an exciting movement to build. There's going

1084
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: to be people who are a part of this idea

1085
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 2: who are gonna go start their own nonprofit. There's gonna

1086
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: be that's maybe like an ultra marathon. There might be

1087
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 2: someone like me who's fostering I'm you know, I'm running

1088
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 2: that half marathon. There might be other people who volunteer

1089
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,439
Speaker 2: with the same organization and build relationships with the staff there,

1090
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: and that's them running there one mile every day, and

1091
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 2: we're all contributing, and we're all a part of it.

1092
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 2: And it doesn't matter what that looks like. And I

1093
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: think it can change from season to season as well.

1094
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 2: Right my husband is currently running marathons. If we have

1095
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 2: another kid, I might not let him do that, So

1096
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 2: he might be a marathon runner at one point in

1097
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 2: his life and maybe not in another. And I just

1098
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 2: when you think about it like that, I just feel

1099
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 2: like it's very tangible and it maybe like makes it

1100
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 2: a little bit less scary for those of you who

1101
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,919
Speaker 2: who want to explore giving back and don't know where

1102
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 2: to start.

1103
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: That is awesome. That was worth the whole interview right there.

1104
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: It's a great point is you can run two laps

1105
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: or around the track, and if that's all you can run,

1106
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,600
Speaker 1: still ran. You're still part of the running community.

1107
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I bet if you did it a couple

1108
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 3: of times, you might be able to run further.

1109
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: You might want to want to.

1110
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 3: You might not, but you might.

1111
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful thing. Is it doesn't matter at what

1112
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 1: level you join the army. It's just that you join

1113
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: the army at some level and do what you can. Yep,

1114
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Melissa. Thanks for sharing your story and for

1115
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: coming to Memphis and hanging out with me, and thanks

1116
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: for all you do. I hope that the people that

1117
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: are listening to you are inspired to understand it really

1118
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: is just being a normal person, doing what you can

1119
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: do and joining a community. And I hope your life

1120
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: so far and your interest in service is an inspiration

1121
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: to those listening to us right now that say the

1122
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: dreaded I really want to do something, I just don't

1123
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: know how. And you know, our encouragement is don't be

1124
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: paralyzed by the fear that you're not good enough or

1125
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: that you can't make a difference, because, like you say,

1126
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: just running one right around the track makes you part

1127
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,439
Speaker 1: of the running community. Just doing anything makes you part

1128
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 1: of the army and normal folks. And the more you do,

1129
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: the more you'll get involved, the more fulfilled you'll be.

1130
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: And it beats the lot of a bubble bath and

1131
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 1: a glass red wine. I totally agree, because it's just

1132
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: fine to feel good about service and to fill your

1133
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: life up when you fill someone else's up, which Melissa O'Neill, you,

1134
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: my friend, have done and continue to do. And again,

1135
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,919
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. I hope you and

1136
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: Scott and Jackson have a very very very merry Christmas.

1137
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, well, thank you for having me excited

1138
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 2: to be here. And I love that you're just showing

1139
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 2: a normal person. So I'll try to come up with

1140
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 2: some other RECs for you guys.

1141
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 1: Sounds good, We'll keep doing it. Sounds great, and thank

1142
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: you for joining us this week. If meliss O'Neil has

1143
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: inspired you in general or better, you have to take

1144
00:58:55,080 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: action by making your identity simply someone who's serve, becoming

1145
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: a hassa volunteer, or a foster parent, joining or starting

1146
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: a giving circle, exploring customer first measurement, or something else entirely.

1147
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 1: Please let me know I really do want to hear

1148
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,560
Speaker 1: about it. You can write me anytime at Bill at

1149
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: normal Folks dot us, and I promise you I will respond.

1150
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends

1151
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: and on social subscribe to the podcast, rate it, review it,

1152
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: Join the army at normal Folks dot us. Do any

1153
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 1: and all of these things that can help us grow

1154
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time,

1155
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:42,600
Speaker 1: do what you can