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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 3: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. We have an amazing show

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Speaker 2: for everybody today. What do we have Krystal, indeed we do.

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Speaker 1: The Biden administration and many other liberals changing their tune

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Speaker 1: a bit after that Israeli airstrike killed seven AID workers

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Speaker 1: for World Central Kitchen. We'll tell you about that. We

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Speaker 1: also have some big news on the warfront. Israel has

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Speaker 1: withdrawn from southern Gaza. What does it mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of speculation, a lot of questions there, so we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that. We're also keeping an eye on how a

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Speaker 1: run will retaliate for that Israeli strike on their consular

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Speaker 1: building in Syria and very dramatic escalations and questions there

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Speaker 1: as well. Campus Owens has opened a rift in conservative media.

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Speaker 4: It's a very interesting story.

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Speaker 1: Obviously ties in with her being fired from the Daily

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Speaker 1: Wire and her commentary with regard to Israel and possible

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Speaker 1: questions around anti Semitism.

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Speaker 4: So we'll break all of that down for you.

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Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is debating Coleman Hughes on whether or not

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Speaker 1: Israel is committing genocide.

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Speaker 4: Very interesting exchange there that is worth parsing.

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Speaker 1: Trump had a massive fundraiser, raising some fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: in one day and making some quite noteworthy promises to

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Speaker 1: the big donors in the room. I have a monologue

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Speaker 1: breaking down that big report from plus nine seven to

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Speaker 1: two magazine that came out last week about the way

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Speaker 1: that Israel is using AI to supercharge their assault on

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Speaker 1: the Gaza Strip. Really important journalistic piece, so I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to spending some time with that one. Before we

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Speaker 1: get to any of that, Sagar, We've been teasing this

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Speaker 1: for a while, but we do have some big news

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Speaker 1: that is coming up soon.

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Speaker 3: I promise you, we promise, we promise.

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Speaker 2: Logistics running nobody ever seen that doing this was easy,

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Speaker 2: but if you do want to be the first to

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Speaker 2: hear about it, you can sign up at breakingpoints dot com.

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Speaker 2: It will be coming very soon. We promised you will

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Speaker 2: eventually see it. It's going to be an upgrade to

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Speaker 2: our premium service and also some extra content. I think

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Speaker 2: you guys are going to be very excited about. So

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Speaker 2: if you can help us out Breakingpoints dot Com.

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Speaker 1: All right, So we wanted to start with the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration's reaction to that strike that killed seven aid workers.

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Speaker 1: For Jose Andre's organization, World Central Kitchen for the first time,

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Speaker 1: they're changing their tune a bit, and actually reportedly in

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Speaker 1: a phone call, Biden didn't really change US policy, but

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Speaker 1: threatened to potentially change US policy, and even just that

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Speaker 1: threat has compelled some changes in behavior on the Israeli side.

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Speaker 1: Here is John Kirby, Pentagon spokesperson, talking about the possibility

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Speaker 1: that military aid in the future could be conditioned if

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Speaker 1: Israel does not change the way that they are conducting

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Speaker 1: this war.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: Is the Biden administration position still that there should be

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Speaker 5: zero conditions on aid military aid to Israel.

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Speaker 6: I'm not going to get ahead of the President or

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Speaker 6: decisions he might or might not make going forward. He

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Speaker 6: was very clear in his call with the Prime Minister

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Speaker 6: that if we don't see some changes in their policies

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Speaker 6: in Gaza and the way they're prosecuting operations, We're going

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Speaker 6: to have to make some changes.

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Speaker 5: In our You do think these are Israeli policies?

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Speaker 4: Then a new block.

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Speaker 3: Eight they have.

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Speaker 6: They get to decide how they prosecute this war. It's

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Speaker 6: their operation. We just talked about them pulling troops out.

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Speaker 6: What that means. They get to decide how they prosecute operations.

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Speaker 6: We get to decide how we're going to react to

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Speaker 6: that and how we're going to administer our own policy

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Speaker 6: with respect to Gaza. We make those decisions, and the

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Speaker 6: President was clear with the Prime Minister. If there's not changes,

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Speaker 6: if things don't get better, then we're going to have

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Speaker 6: to make changes of our own.

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Speaker 1: If things don't get better, then we're going to have

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Speaker 1: to make changes of our own. Leaving it very vague,

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Speaker 1: The President also asked about what all of this means

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Speaker 1: in a short exchange on the fly.

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Speaker 4: Let's take listen what he had to say.

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Speaker 7: We do breaton documentitary, Hey, they thread, I have them

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Speaker 7: agree what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: Helpful there. I asked them to do what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's dig into a little bit of

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Speaker 1: what they are doing. Let's put this up on the

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Speaker 1: screen from Axio. So immediately after that phone call, Israel

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Speaker 1: announced that they had agreed to increase humanitarian aid delivery

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Speaker 1: to Gaza. There's a number of actions that they're taking

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Speaker 1: on this front. So they're opening the arrest crossing the

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Speaker 1: Northern Gaza Strip. That would be the first time since

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Speaker 1: October seventh. We also have a quote from Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: in this piece. She said, the President made clear we

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Speaker 1: will make sure Israel isn't left without the ability to

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Speaker 1: defend itself. At the same time, if there are no

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Speaker 1: changes to their approach, we are likely to change our approach.

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Speaker 1: So very similar to Kirby's comments, let's go ahead and

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Speaker 1: put up the fifth element on the screen here, guys,

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Speaker 1: to show you the additional actions that were taken. So

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Speaker 1: the UN says that Israel also approved the reopening of

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Speaker 1: twenty bakeries and a water pipeline in northern Gaza. There

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Speaker 1: are also some additional legis efforts that they are claiming

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Speaker 1: that they're going to make in order to create a

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Speaker 1: better functioning coordination so that more aid can enter the strip.

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Speaker 1: And in addition, according to the Israelis yesterday saw three

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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty two AID trucks entering.

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Speaker 4: The Gaza Strip.

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Speaker 1: That is the highest daily number of AID trucks that

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Speaker 1: has entered the enclave since October seventh. Again, this is

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Speaker 1: according to Israeli official So take that for what it's worth,

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Speaker 1: as reported by Barack Revide. But you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: couple things that are noteworthy here. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the Israelis have long been saying, oh, we're not doing

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Speaker 1: anything to blockade, We're doing everything we can to get aided.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, Well, it turns out that you could, at

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Speaker 1: the snap of finger open new crossings, reinstate a pipeline,

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Speaker 1: reopen twenty bakeries that have been shuttered, increased coordination, immediately

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Speaker 1: surge the number of AID trucks coming through. So this

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Speaker 1: line that they've been feeding you all for months now,

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Speaker 1: that all we're doing everything obviously complete and utter bullshit. Second,

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Speaker 1: really noteworthy point here is for the people are saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: Israel's a sovereign country. We really don't how many say

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Speaker 1: over what they do. The Biden administration did not even

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Speaker 1: change policy. He made one phone call where he threatened

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Speaker 1: to potentially in some amorphis way change policy in the future,

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Speaker 1: and that was sufficient to compel a change in behavior

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Speaker 1: from the Israelis.

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Speaker 2: Well, it validates a couple of points we've been talking

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Speaker 2: a lot about here. Number one is that, yes, there

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Speaker 2: is some certain personal sovereignty that Israel has, but there's

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Speaker 2: also a client state relationship here. This is the nation

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Speaker 2: that has received more foreign aid than any other country

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Speaker 2: in the entire history of the US if you look

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Speaker 2: at the overall dollar amount that we've given to Israel,

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Speaker 2: and for vast majority of that is military aid. On

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Speaker 2: top of that, Biden administration has been a critical lifeline

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Speaker 2: to the Israeli military whenever it comes to its weapons,

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Speaker 2: and we've also seen a pretty major change in their

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Speaker 2: battle strategy.

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Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot to say about this, and nobody really

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Speaker 2: quite knows because you could see either way. I please

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Speaker 2: put yes IDF is ending quote its active ground invasion

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Speaker 2: and completely withdrawing from southern Gaza. This is from the

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Speaker 2: Jerusalem Post, which is more of a right wing organization

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Speaker 2: inside Israel, and they say that the decision comes less

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Speaker 2: than two days after Israel opened the Aras crossing and

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Speaker 2: the Eshdod port to transfer humanitarian aid. I do want

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Speaker 2: to spend some time on this because I saw actually

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Speaker 2: some interesting analysis from again Israeli commentators, and one who

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Speaker 2: in English put it this way. He says, these are

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Speaker 2: two very concerning data points from Gaza.

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Speaker 3: One.

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Speaker 2: After the multi week campaign in and around Al Shifa,

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Speaker 2: mortars are still being fired at the IDEF from northern

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Speaker 2: Gaza as troops are leaving the Gaza Strip. This shows

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Speaker 2: that the enemy still has quote plenty of forces in

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Speaker 2: the north too.

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Speaker 3: After months of battles.

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Speaker 2: Now in Communis by the ninety eighth Division and its

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Speaker 2: commando Brigrade, four soldiers were just killed yesterday, announced by

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Speaker 2: the IDF. This shows that the enemy still uses tunnels

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Speaker 2: and has weapons despite months of being chased around. The

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Speaker 2: problem with the strategy of clear and not hold is

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Speaker 2: that it seems to inevitably mean Hamas returns now. He's

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Speaker 2: writing it from a very like pro is really military perspective.

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Speaker 2: But the reason why it really struck out to me

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Speaker 2: is that even the clear ride is really military. Analysts

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Speaker 2: inside the country are like, hey, this entire military campaign

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Speaker 2: did not actually achieve it's so called military end we

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Speaker 2: have rockets and military capability in northern Gaza and in Conunis,

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Speaker 2: both of which were promised as the justification. You can

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Speaker 2: see majority from the US commentators and even defenders of

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Speaker 2: military strategy is it's working, and yeah there's a high

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Speaker 2: civilian casualty, but what are you going to do? But

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Speaker 2: this is actually evidence that the enemy both retains its

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Speaker 2: military capacity, that they have not been able to destroy Hamas,

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Speaker 2: and that even with all of their tactics, their effective

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Speaker 2: free fire zone, etc. That it hasn't worked, Which is

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Speaker 2: I mean, frankly predictable from the start with the way

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Speaker 2: that they've decided to wage the war.

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Speaker 1: It is not only predictable from the start, it was

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Speaker 1: predicted from the start, including by people who are not

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Speaker 1: you know, deep military experts such as ourselves, the idea

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Speaker 1: that you were going to defeat Hamas and that was

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Speaker 1: going to be the you know, the actual goal of

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Speaker 1: the strategy. I mean, it never made sense from day one,

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Speaker 1: first of all, that you would even be able to

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Speaker 1: do that or what that even means. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: the tactics from the beginning, remember we covered those comments

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Speaker 1: from JOCKO about this. The tactics were never consistent with

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Speaker 1: that goal. The tactics were consistent with revenge. The tactics

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Speaker 1: were consistent with annihilation. The tactics were consistent with collective

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Speaker 1: punishment of the entire civilian population, which is where you know,

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Speaker 1: the siege comes into play.

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Speaker 4: And I've got a lot more on how.

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Speaker 1: Those tactics actually were decided on and how they were

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Speaker 1: executed in the field in my monologue today. But the

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Speaker 1: idea that this was some you know, hunt for Hamas

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Speaker 1: and it was really this targeted military campaign directly at Hamas,

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Speaker 1: that was preposterous from the jump. But now they're at

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Speaker 1: a place where they can sort of no longer sustain

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Speaker 1: the lie, even amongst you know, our own supporters who

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Speaker 1: want to believe the lie, who want to believe that justification.

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Speaker 1: It becomes too preposterous for anyone who is looking at

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Speaker 1: this thing clearly to sustain. So what the Israeli Defense

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Speaker 1: Ministerio of Glant is saying about their withdrawal from communists

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Speaker 1: from southern Gaza, leaving a very minimal number honestly of

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Speaker 1: soldiers still remaining in the Gaza strip. Basically they are

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Speaker 1: posted up along the corridor between North and South. This

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Speaker 1: dividing line to prevent Palestinians from returning to their homes

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Speaker 1: in northern Gaza. That is the bulk of where the

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Speaker 1: troops remain in the Gaza Strip now, they claim, and

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Speaker 1: US Intelligence has also put out a statement to the

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Speaker 1: same effect that the reason they are withdrawing from communists

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Speaker 1: and southern Gaza at this time is to rest up

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Speaker 1: and prepare the operation for Rafa.

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Speaker 4: We know that Natanyahu has.

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Speaker 1: Very aggressively asserted that there is no way he will

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Speaker 1: be deterred from going into Rafa. That is still hanging

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Speaker 1: out there. So what this actually means, I think it's

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Speaker 1: very honestly difficult to say at this point and what

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Speaker 1: it means for the future. The other thing that's hanging

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Speaker 1: over this, you know, with a lot of question marks,

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Speaker 1: is there are ongoing negotiations occurring in Qatar for some

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Speaker 1: sort of ceasefire. Don't know the length, don't know the

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Speaker 1: contours of that, don't know how likely that is to

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Speaker 1: actually come to fruition. But one of the things Hamas

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Speaker 1: has been insisting on is some sort of IDF withdrawal.

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Speaker 1: So the other possibility is this withdrawal a precursor to

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Speaker 1: some sort of either temporary or more lasting ceasefire deal.

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Speaker 4: We simply don't know.

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Speaker 1: At this point, but obviously the fact that there was

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Speaker 1: such a significant withdrawal from southern Gaza is incredibly significant

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Speaker 1: and something to really keep our eyes on now in

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Speaker 1: terms of Netan Yahoo and his domestic political situation, as

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Speaker 1: we've said a million times, and we're not the only ones,

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Speaker 1: he has to keep this war going, to hold on

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Speaker 1: to his position and power. Obviously, there are huge questions

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Speaker 1: about him leading to October seventh. He is deeply unpopular

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Speaker 1: in Israel almost across the board. Once the war is over,

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Speaker 1: there will be a clamoring for new elections and he

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Speaker 1: will be in big trouble. Bet So, I think he

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Speaker 1: almost has to hold on to, you know, a potential

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Speaker 1: a Rafa invasion, as he asserts, as a certainty, he

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Speaker 1: has to hold on to, you know, what's going on

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Speaker 1: in northern Israel and their tit for tat escalations with

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Speaker 1: Hezbola that still has the possibility of really.

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Speaker 4: Flaring up and escalating.

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Speaker 1: And then we're going to talk more in the next

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Speaker 1: block about this additional front that he's opened up directly

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Speaker 1: vis a vis Iran and what that could mean. For

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Speaker 1: the future, because again, his political fate depends on keeping

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Speaker 1: this war going, which is why I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: skeptical that the withdrawal of troops from southern Gaza at

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Speaker 1: this point really spells like, oh, they're actually winding things

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Speaker 1: down and this is coming to some sort of a close.

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Speaker 2: I think that they're trying to keep their options open.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, again, these really right wing is actually

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Speaker 2: reading it as a defeat. So apparently I'm reading back

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Speaker 2: here again from a translation. But the Israeli radio this morning,

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Speaker 2: resh At B, apparently a large radio organization, said this

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Speaker 2: morning that basically Hamas is getting a lot of what

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Speaker 2: it wanted and that the withdrawal of forces from Communist

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Speaker 2: is basically quote a kind of sea.

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Speaker 3: Sire without it being official.

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Speaker 2: They also say that considering the narrative during the war

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Speaker 2: that there won't be Hamas and military pressure is bringing

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Speaker 2: the release of hostages, we are wondering now if those

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Speaker 2: talking points will be quietly shelved. So I think they're

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Speaker 2: in a holding pattern. I don't think they really know

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Speaker 2: what they're doing. Of course, they're going to try and

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Speaker 2: say face and be like no, no, no, we're going into

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Speaker 2: Rafa but international pressure and changes and wins here in

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Speaker 2: the US very clearly dramatically shifting after the strike on

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Speaker 2: the World Central Kitchen. I don't get me wrong, I

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Speaker 2: would not put it past them whatsoever. And if things change,

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Speaker 2: if these things fail, or if something else happens, that

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Speaker 2: could influence events very much, could be possible. But regardless,

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Speaker 2: I think we're in an interesting kind of.

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Speaker 3: A flux situation right now that could go in two

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Speaker 3: different directions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think my personal assessment is that BB has

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Speaker 1: to hold on to the invasion is coming.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think he said it so clearly and made that

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Speaker 1: promise so clearly so many times. I really don't think

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Speaker 1: he can back off of it without, you know, immediately

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Speaker 1: jeopardizing his political position, which is his end all feel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's an ideological actor, but he's also first

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Speaker 1: and foremost a political animal. There's a reason that he

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Speaker 1: has held power so often and for so long in

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Speaker 1: Israeli society. So I think he has to stick to

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Speaker 1: that pledge. But perhaps there's you know, responding to this

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Speaker 1: tiniest bit of US pressure that the Biden administration has

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Speaker 1: put on of you know, let's back off for a

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Speaker 1: bit and let things cool down, let a little bit

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Speaker 1: more of a trickle of aid flow into the strip

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Speaker 1: in response to these concerns from the Americans. And again,

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Speaker 1: just take note, take note everyone. It did not even

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Speaker 1: take an actual change in policy to compel some changes

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Speaker 1: on the Israeli side. All it took was the threat

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Speaker 1: of possible future undefined action, and we saw immediate.

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Speaker 4: Response from the Israelis.

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Speaker 1: So keep that in mind the next time they try

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Speaker 1: to gaslight you into oh Biden's doing all he can,

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Speaker 1: and oh we just you know, we're just impotent. We

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Speaker 1: have no power in this situation. That is nonsense. That

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Speaker 1: is utter and complete nonsense. The strike on these is

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Speaker 1: by the Israelis on the World Central Kitchen Aid workers

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Speaker 1: has had tremendous fallout, I would say, especially among American liberals,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting for a variety of reasons. But chefjose

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Speaker 1: Andres himself speaking out over the weekend and taking a

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Speaker 1: very hard line against the Israelis here really calling into

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Speaker 1: question their quote unquote investigation into what happened. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen to a bit of what he had to say.

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Speaker 8: We could argue that the first one, let's say, was

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Speaker 8: a mistake the second. The third, do you believe.

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Speaker 9: Old Central Kitchen was targeted on purpose?

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Speaker 10: My humanity tells me that Obviously, I don't want to

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Speaker 10: believe that was a kitchen was targeted, and probably this

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Speaker 10: was not the case because I'm sure they knew our movements.

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Speaker 10: I'm sure they knew our teams. I'm sure they were

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Speaker 10: in the red content with the different people that coordinate

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Speaker 10: in these situations. But obviously this seems keeps happening, this

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Speaker 10: breaking of communications keeps happening.

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Speaker 9: You wrote a very emotional tweet this week about Zomy, saying,

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Speaker 9: I wish I never founded your organization. You would be

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Speaker 9: alive somewhere today, smiling and making somebody somewhere feel like

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Speaker 9: they were the most beloved person in the world. Said

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Speaker 9: you wish you'd never found it Central Kitchen.

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Speaker 10: You know, I will forever have to live with this,

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Speaker 10: as well as the families and all the members of

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Speaker 10: Los Andel Gitchen.

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Speaker 8: I I.

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Speaker 10: Founded with one very simple idea, can we provide food

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Speaker 10: and water quicker than anybody else?

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Speaker 8: Obviously, something like this makes you think we did what

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Speaker 8: we did.

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Speaker 10: Because it's a lot of people that are always forgotten,

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Speaker 10: many civilians, women, children, that the only thing they did

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Speaker 10: was trying to get close by to somewhere that they

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Speaker 10: were giving them flower or breadth. This is not anymore

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Speaker 10: about the seven men and women of World Central Kitchen

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Speaker 10: that perish on this unfortunate e band.

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Speaker 8: This is happening. Wait for too long.

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Speaker 10: It's been six months of targeting anything that seems moves.

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Speaker 10: This doesn't seem a war against terror. This doesn't seem

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Speaker 10: anymore a war about defending Israel. This really, at this

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Speaker 10: point seems is a war against humanity itself.

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Speaker 1: So obviously some really strong comments there made by Chef

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Speaker 1: jose Andre saying this doesn't seem anymore a war about

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Speaker 1: defending Israel. This really, at this point seems it's a

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Speaker 1: war against humanity itself.

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Speaker 4: Remember early on.

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Speaker 1: He was a supporter of this war early on, so

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Speaker 1: to hear that from him is quite striking. In an addition,

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Speaker 1: suggesting they were targeted directly calling for an independent investigation,

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Speaker 1: calling into question the results of the Israeli investigation that

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Speaker 1: already occurred, talking about it seems that they are targeting

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Speaker 1: everything that moves, killing women and children whose only crime

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Speaker 1: is seeking out a loaf of.

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Speaker 4: Bread or a bag of flour.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and pull up this next piece, this

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Speaker 1: IDF investigation that occurred and what they claim to have found.

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Speaker 1: So they dismissed two officers over those deadly drone strikes

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Speaker 1: on aid workers. Basically, they're sticking with this, with this

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Speaker 1: story that somebody spotted a supposed militant with a gun,

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Speaker 1: not even a militant, just a person with a gun,

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Speaker 1: and that that was enough for a strike on this

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Speaker 1: aid convoy to be authorized. And again keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: first of all, in a war zone, it is entirely

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Speaker 1: appropriate to have someone with a gun escorting an aid convoy.

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Speaker 1: Second of all, as jose Andres himself indicating as you

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Speaker 1: could see in that photo that was just up on

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Speaker 1: the screen, all three of the vehicles had the World

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Speaker 1: Central Kitchen logo on the top. They were coordinating directly

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Speaker 1: with the IDF. They were traveling along a known deconfliction route.

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Speaker 1: They were following protocol to a t. Every communication was

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Speaker 1: made to try to ensure that the Israelis knew, hey,

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Speaker 1: we are leaving our warehouse and we are heading out

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Speaker 1: in these vehicles. And did they weren't struck once, they

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Speaker 1: weren't struck twice, They were struck three times, and we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to believe that, you know, it was Oh, it

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Speaker 1: was just a mistake. It was just a misunderstanding. We

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Speaker 1: couldn't see the World Central Kitchen logo in the darkness,

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Speaker 1: so that was what they found.

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Speaker 4: But even soager if.

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Speaker 1: You believe their story, it really demonstrates the actual rules

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Speaker 1: of engagement on the ground, which even the theoretical potential

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Speaker 1: presence at one point of someone with the gun was

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Speaker 1: enough to justify the murder of seven aid workers using

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Speaker 1: three different drug strikes.

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Speaker 11: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to sound insensitive, but part of what

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Speaker 2: has annoyed me about the turn on this we're about

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Speaker 2: to get to this is that it took the killing

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Speaker 2: of these Western aid workers to prompt this. This has

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Speaker 2: been self evident since what the very day that they

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Speaker 2: announced what was it that they announced that they were

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Speaker 2: doing a complete siege into the Gaza strip, Like we

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Speaker 2: have known from day one, this was evident whenever three

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Speaker 2: Israeli hostages came out of a building waving a white

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Speaker 2: flag in Hebrew saying we are hostages, and they shot

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Speaker 2: them dead because the rules of engagement were so it

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Speaker 2: wasn't enough when they killed their own people.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't enough whenever they killed people on camera. At

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Speaker 3: this point, if you are living on the internet and

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Speaker 3: you have watched videos of the IDF that's engaged in combat,

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Speaker 3: you have known that this is what the rules of

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Speaker 3: engagement were. Nobody was fired or held.

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Speaker 4: To video for that they put out.

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Speaker 3: That's what I mean.

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Speaker 4: In many instances, by the way.

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Speaker 2: It was only when a member of DC Royalty was

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Speaker 2: personally affected by this, as everybody decided to like pearl

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Speaker 2: clutch around them.

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Speaker 3: I'm not erasing the lives of these aid workers.

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Speaker 2: It's just such a self interested portrait that I actually

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Speaker 2: want people at home to take in. Jose Andrace is

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Speaker 2: royalty in this town. He owns a bunch of restaurants.

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Speaker 2: You know, his world's central kitchen stuff is always that's

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Speaker 2: like secondary. He is a social pillar of Washington, has

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Speaker 2: been for me at least fifteen twenty years. All of

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Speaker 2: the news anchors that were about to show you who

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Speaker 2: are now quote turning on Israel, they're all friends with him.

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Speaker 2: They have all dined in his restaurants. That's the only

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Speaker 2: reason that they are changing their tunes. So do not

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Speaker 2: be mistaken that this has been some major change of

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Speaker 2: consciousness as usual in DC. It's only whenever people are

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Speaker 2: personally affected by something.

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Speaker 3: I guess that's human nature.

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Speaker 2: That is the only thing they can genuinely compel anything

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Speaker 2: to change, which in my opinion, is frankly outrageous. If

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Speaker 2: you're going to look at a situation on its merits or.

442
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: Not, it's certainly the nature of these people. I don't

443
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: think you could say it's human nature when you see,

444
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: you know, the overwhelming bulk of public opinion, when you

445
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: see the protesters in the street, most of whom don't

446
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: have a personal stake in this conflict, don't know people

447
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: who are dying and being starved to death in real time.

448
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: They were able to see the humanity of Palestinians and

449
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: the horror of the situation before someone who they personally

450
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: knew was impacted. But such is the narcissism and the

451
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: bubble and the casual dehumanization that you know, the elites

452
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: in Washington swimen that it wasn't even This is important too,

453
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: to underscore your point, Soccer, It's not like these are

454
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: the first even aid work Western aid workers who have

455
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: been killed. True, there's some two hundred plus aid workers

456
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: who have been killed in this conflict. We've had, you know,

457
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: doctors who are We've had professors who are killed.

458
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 4: We've seen the utter destruction.

459
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 1: I mean, this has been in front of our eyes

460
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: since the beginning, truly, as you said, since they announced

461
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: a complete siege. How can you sustain the concept that, oh,

462
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: this is a targeted hunt for Hamas when by definition,

463
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: complete siege means you are holding the entire population hostage.

464
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: So it wasn't when they were targeted attacks on journalists.

465
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 1: It wasn't even you know that there was an American

466
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: citizen here. It was that a personal friend of theirs

467
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 1: was impacted.

468
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 4: That's what it took.

469
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: But it has apparently created a dramatic change in the

470
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: way that some liberals are now viewing this conflict.

471
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 4: You can almost see it too in the news. Rich

472
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: like the we have covered.

473
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: So much the anesthetic, like sanitized language that's used when

474
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: it comes to Palestinians being killed versus Israeli's being killed.

475
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: You can even see in real time some of that

476
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: language shift in terms of the news coverage. But put

477
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: this next piece up on the screen. I never expected

478
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: to see this headline. Nancy Pelosi, who just basically minutes

479
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: ago was smearing any sort of ceasefire protesters as being

480
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: paid by Russia or being paid by China, et cetera.

481
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: She has now joined onto a letter calling to halt

482
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: US weapons transfers to Israel. Now there are some caveats

483
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: with regards to this letter. The language is a little squishy, right,

484
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: let me read you a little bit. It says, in part,

485
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: in light of the recent strike against aid workers and

486
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: the ever worsening humanitarian crisis, we believe it is unjustifiable

487
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: to approve these weapons transfers. That letter, they go on

488
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: to write in Axios, which was released after the IDF

489
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: anounced initial findings of its investigation to the attack, includes

490
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: a call for an independent probe if this strike, they write,

491
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 1: is found to a violated US or international law, we

492
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 1: urge you to continue with holding these transfers until those

493
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: responsible are held accountable. So, again, the letter doesn't go

494
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: so far as to say just cut off the weapons transfers.

495
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: And that's that they're saying. We want an independent investigation.

496
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: We say we want accountability. If you do those things,

497
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: then you can continue transferring the weapons. But the fact

498
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: that Nancy Pelosi signed onto this at all with any

499
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: sort of language in the direction of potentially possibly conditioning

500
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: arms transfers is pretty extraordinary.

501
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: Maybe it's because just on January thirty first, twenty twenty four,

502
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 2: so three months ago, Nancy Pelosi nominated Jose Andres for

503
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: the Nobel Peace Prize, and Nancy Pelosi has often a

504
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 2: lot of the work of Jose Andres, of whom which

505
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: he has appeared before with several times. It's just it's

506
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 2: all a club, like it's all just a social club.

507
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: If anybody in the social club is effective and something

508
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: is changed, otherwise it doesn't it doesn't even matter. This

509
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: is actually a key inside too into why ukraine Mania

510
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: has taken over Washington, Because there's freaking Ukrainians all over

511
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: this town, and because for some reason, Ukrainians are the

512
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: only human beings on planet Earth that are supposed to

513
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 2: be like whatever. If they're being invaded, then it's a

514
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: threat on democracy. Russia is the great enemy. Russia Gate

515
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: also played a good role. But you know, to pay

516
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: very close attention as to who is granted personhood status

517
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: and who is not.

518
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, And listen, I'm glad that they're

519
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: shifting their view, but it is I saw someone say

520
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: on Twitter like it is just two on the nose

521
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: that what it took is for their like wealthy liberal

522
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: friend to be directly impacted before they could see what

523
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: has been obvious to the overwhelming majority of the world

524
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: since the or very early days of this conflict. You

525
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: reference this before, but just to give you a sense

526
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: of how the tone and approach to Israel has changed,

527
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: just like this, like flipped on a dime. We've got

528
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: a little compilation here for you, just to set it up.

529
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: We've got Morning Joe, really, you know, taken a task

530
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: an Israeli econ Minster. Now, his choice of line of

531
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: questioning is interesting. We can talk about it after the fact,

532
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 1: but the aggressiveness of the tone is kind of what's noteworthy.

533
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 12: Here.

534
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: You have Jen Saki, Biden's former press secretary, actually talking

535
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: about possibly conditioning AID and criticizing directly the Biden administration approach.

536
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: I haven't personally heard her criticize the Biden administration on

537
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: anything since she left that post, so that was very noteworthy.

538
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: And then you have former CIA director Leon Panetta making

539
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: some extraordinary claims about the way that the Israeli Army operates.

540
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: In general, you definitely want to hear that. Take a

541
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: listen to all of those.

542
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 13: You're feeding that wolf, and you're telling that wolf to

543
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 13: feed the Nazis and Daza. So explain to me, because

544
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 13: I really want to know. Why was Benjamin Netanyahu and

545
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 13: his government funding they.

546
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 3: Were allies with.

547
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 13: Cutter and the funding of Hamas?

548
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 8: Why.

549
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 14: I think it's a mistake, and it was uncovered October seventh.

550
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 14: October seventh demonstrated that if you think you could buy

551
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 14: quiet peace by funding Hamas, it's a huge mistake and.

552
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 3: It's weird to me.

553
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 13: Why did Benjamin metan Yahoo knowing that their charter said

554
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 13: that they were to kill Jews and eradicate Israel. Why

555
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 13: would any leader of Israel work to fund that organization

556
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 13: to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

557
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 15: Look, clearly, the strategy that the United States is implementing

558
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 15: at this point is not working to change the behavior

559
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 15: of Prime Minister net Yahoo is not working to.

560
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 4: End the war.

561
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 15: So obviously something has to change, and I think it's

562
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 15: pretty clear they're discussing that, I think in the White House,

563
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 15: and I hope in the White House, in this situation

564
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 15: room at this point in time, the question is what

565
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 15: that will be.

566
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 16: You have to be able to verify it, to take

567
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 16: time to make sure that the information that you're getting

568
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 16: is accurate with regards to targets. And I have to

569
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 16: tell you that in the past, at least in my experience,

570
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 16: the Israelis usually fire and then ask questions.

571
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: The Israelis usually fire and then ask questions, What did

572
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: you make of those various comments?

573
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: The last one in particular, I was just telling you

574
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: what was playing. Leon Panetta was a man who had

575
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: the greenlit a huge portion of the Obama drone program.

576
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: I mean, and if we were to take at the

577
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: worst the civilian casualties under the Obama drone program with

578
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: some ninety something percent at best, it was like maybe

579
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: forty five to fifty percent. Don't exactly want to hear

580
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 2: it from mister Panetta who did some of that behavior,

581
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: But I mean, I guess it's one of those where

582
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: you could take it from his word. At the very least,

583
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: you could say this BLO Bob is shifting against them.

584
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 3: Panetta.

585
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: I should remind people former Secretary of Defense, former CIA

586
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: director at one point advocated for literal war with Russia.

587
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 2: We can roll the tape if anybody wants to go

588
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: and check it.

589
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: So for somebody like.

590
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Him to change his tune, I would say, it's certainly noteworthy.

591
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: The Morning Joe piece is just like, what are we

592
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 2: doing here?

593
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 8: Dude?

594
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: We were talking about this on October eighth. No, actually,

595
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: I think our first show was October ninth. Okay, so

596
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: October ninth. That was the very first time that you

597
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: heard it here.

598
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: On the show. It was a legitimate point of view

599
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: and conversation about how we got here and want some

600
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 3: of the backup about.

601
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: Babe bolstered Hummas, like to create a divide between the

602
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: West Bank and Gaza, built them up and funded them

603
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: and even made explicit comments about how if you want

604
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: to block a two state solution, you need to bolster Humas.

605
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, that that is the conversation.

606
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: Now, so why is that the conversation? Yeah, what are

607
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: exactly are we doing here?

608
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 17: Okay?

609
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 3: I just want to return to this.

610
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: One of their friends was personally affected by the situation,

611
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: So now everybody's got it's like Jensaki, I can't.

612
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: It would be difficult to.

613
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: Count the number of times she's probably personally eaten at

614
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: Jose Andres establishment.

615
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: And when you're in the White House. He's there all

616
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 3: the time. He was there. You know, this is like

617
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: a by Parson thing. Don't get me wrong.

618
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: When Trump he was a celebrity here in Washington too,

619
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: So for them, Israel's only real crime was hitting a

620
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: staff member of somebody who is basically royalty here in Washington.

621
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: But that was enough for people in the media to change.

622
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: So I don't know, you keep saying over and over again.

623
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: Just to comments on some of the specific comments. Part

624
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: of what I thought was really noteworthy about Panetta's comments

625
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: is they weren't confined specifically to this onslaught in Gaza.

626
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: He said, the Israelis usually fire and then ask questions,

627
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: So it is extraordinary. It's quite noteworthy for a member

628
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: and good standing of the BLOB to cast dispersions over

629
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: Israeli military conduct across not just this war, but many

630
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: previous conflicts and mowings of the grass previously, and would

631
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: have been unthinking up till basically this moment and would

632
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: have probably you know, gotten you tagged as an anti

633
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Semite or whatever. And the line previously was always all

634
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: this is the most moral alarmy on the planet, et cetera.

635
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 1: So that was no worthy to me. The Saki thing

636
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: speaks for itself. The fact that she even feels compelled

637
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: to critique the administration.

638
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of.

639
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: You know, kid gloves or whatever, but that she says

640
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: anything against them is noteworthy in the morning, Joe one,

641
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: because the line of questioning is so strange at this moment,

642
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: It's so not the point of what people are really

643
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: concerned about right now, when you have somewhere around forty

644
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: thousand Palestinians who have been killed, you have the entire

645
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Gaza strip completely decimated and in rubble. You know, you

646
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: have obviously the killing of these aid workers. You have

647
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: this situation that could spiral out of control with regard

648
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: to this, you know, attack on the Iran Consular building

649
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: and you're going back to almost attack Bbe from the

650
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 1: right of You were supporting Hamas and you were bolstering Hamas,

651
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: and you were too supportive of Hamas. My read into

652
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: it is that Joe Scarborough is smart enough to know

653
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: that the moment has changed, that he can't have this

654
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: Israeli government person on and just play patty cakes with

655
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: him the way that he would have, you know a

656
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: week ago before this strike. But he doesn't actually really

657
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: want to criticize what's happening in Gaza right now. So

658
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: this was the line of question that he felt like

659
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: was safe for all of his various constituent audiences, but

660
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: could sort of like bluster to the Mourning Joe audience

661
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: and you know, the liberals who watch MSNBC that he

662
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: was being tough on Israel but not in a way

663
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: that actually matters right now. For what it's worth, That's

664
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: what I read into the Morning Joe exchange. There the

665
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: last one we wanted to show you, which this is

666
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: very striking Senator Tim Kaine, who is you know, the

667
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: most kind of mainline, run of the mill Democrats.

668
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 4: With a few exceptions.

669
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: He's kind of good on like on like the surveillance,

670
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: mass surveillance, and then he has a few things where

671
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: he but typically just like the most run of the mill,

672
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: mainstream Democrat. He made a suggestion that are troops that

673
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: are being sent to build this peer which are coming

674
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: from Virginia, so he has you know, direct stake as

675
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: their representative in the Senate that not only could they

676
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: be in danger from Hamas and other militants, they could

677
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: be in danger from the IDF themselves.

678
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

679
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 12: Even this US military operation. These are some troops that

680
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 12: are deployed out of Virginia. Fort Eustas in Virginia in

681
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 12: charge of this marine peer operation. We knew when we

682
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 12: announced that they might be in harms way from Hamas.

683
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 12: But you know, after the events of this week, anybody

684
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 12: doing humanitarian aid is going to wonder if they're in

685
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 12: harms way from the IDF.

686
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: So suggesting that US troops could be in harms way

687
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: from the IDF, what did you make of that, Zager?

688
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously I think it's very important. And

689
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: what I think is we get what people look. This

690
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: has opened up a conversation. We are allowed to talk

691
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: now about conduct as will affect foreigners who are in Gaza.

692
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 2: This is basically how the expansion of the Overton window

693
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: gets save the overturn window for the Canvaswin's discussion. The

694
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: point is is that as this is changing and things

695
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 2: are going to a point where they're trying to send

696
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: the signal basically, they're trying to salvage their ability to

697
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: be pro Israel in the future by putting down some

698
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: of these noteworthy comments. And here with immense pressure I think,

699
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 2: to try and back up Biden, and generally the other

700
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 2: Western countries, including the European Union, which we often don't

701
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: talk about, but they're very, very different on this issue

702
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: than even here, Even the pro Israel nations are much

703
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: more willing to criticize to pressure to try and recognize

704
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: Palestinian statehood. I think things are very obviously going in

705
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 2: a certain direction, and they are kind of leading from

706
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: behind in the old Obama speak, But I.

707
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: Mean, I think it is true.

708
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: I think it's what's really crazy to me to watch

709
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 2: here with Biden is the vacillation his being his hand

710
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: quote unquote being forced only when a member of Washington

711
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: Royalty is personally affected, never at actually leading with principle

712
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: or with guidance, or it's just the absence of leadership

713
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: in this with both with his own personal ideology, stubbornness,

714
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: and really the see team of people he has with

715
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: him is just so self evident in the entire handling

716
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: of this discussion.

717
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't want to make too much of

718
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: this shift, because I think it's entirely possible that Israel

719
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 1: does just enough of, you know, letting a little more

720
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: aid trucks in opening another crossing doing enough to placate

721
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 1: the Biden administration and to go back to those original

722
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: Biden comments that we played you to me. That's what

723
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: his comments are indicative of. He says, Oh, I asked

724
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: them to do what they're doing, indicating Oh, he's satisfied

725
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: with the response.

726
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 4: It's enough for him.

727
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: And I think it is very possible, if not likely,

728
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: that we still don't really see a change in US policy,

729
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: that the Biden administration goes back to basically lockstep support

730
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: and points to these few little, you know, additional crumbs

731
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: that were thrown out here from Israel as some big win,

732
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: big humanitarian win, and we go back to business as usual.

733
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: I think that's probably the most likely outcome here. So again,

734
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to make too much of it, but

735
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, between not just this strike on jose Andres

736
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: humanitarian aid workers, but also the political writing is just

737
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: so clear on the wall. Now there's another piece in

738
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: I believe Politico about how it's sunk in to some

739
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: of the president's campaign team that the image that voters

740
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: previously had of him as this like, eh, I may

741
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: not agree with everything, but he seems like a nice

742
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: guy dead and gone, done, done, and they can see

743
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: the battleground pulling. They can see the problem they have

744
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: in Michigan, they can see the problem they have with

745
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: young voters. More on that in a later block as well.

746
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: And so between those two things they feel the need

747
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: to aggressively tone shift and at least extract something they

748
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: can point to from the Israelis to say, see, we

749
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: care and we made them change.

750
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 4: We did that, we.

751
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 1: Force their hand and that's how you know, that's the

752
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: way that we conduct themselves and not ourselves. And that's

753
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: why we're way better than Trump too, by the way,

754
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: on this issue. But am I incredibly hopeful that we're

755
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: going to see it entire like sea change in terms

756
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: of US policy?

757
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 4: Not particularly Yeah, I think you're right.

758
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and get to the potential fallout from

759
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: that Israeli strike on a consular building of Iran in Syria,

760
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: because you know, it's easy to lose sight of this

761
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: because so much of the conversation has been about those

762
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: World Central Kitchen Aid workers. But at the very same

763
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: time you had that strike, which was a violation of

764
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: Vienna conventions, quite an extraordinary provocation on the Israeli part.

765
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: And now the question is how is run going to respond.

766
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: All of the actors involved seem quite convinced that there

767
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: is almost as a necessity, going to be some sort

768
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: of Iranian reaction. So what is that going to look like.

769
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: Let's put this up on the screen from CNN. Their

770
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: headline is US preparing for significant Iran attack on US

771
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: or Israeli assets in the region as soon as the

772
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: headline says next week, that would be this week. They

773
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 1: write here, the US is on high alert, actively preparing

774
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: for a significant attack that could come as soon as

775
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: within the next week by Iran targeting Israeli or American

776
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: assets in the region in response to Monday's Israeli strike

777
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: and Damascus that kill top Iranian commanders. A senior Administration

778
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: official TELCNN. US officials believe that attack is inevitable. That

779
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 1: view is reportedly shared by their Israeli counterparts. Two governments

780
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: are furiously working to get in position ahead of what

781
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: is to come, as they anticipate that Iran's attack could

782
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: unfold in a number of different ways, and that both

783
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: US and Israeli assets and personnel are at risk of

784
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: being targeted. A senior Administration official described the US warning

785
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: to Iran as quote, don't think about coming after. US

786
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: State Department spokesperson did not provide further information about how

787
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: the US message was conveyed to Iran.

788
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 4: But you will recall, Sagar that.

789
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: Immediately after this strike, the Iranians made it clear, no

790
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: uncertain terms, that not only blamed Israel, they also blamed US. Now,

791
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: we deny that we knew anything about it, which is,

792
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: you know, there's no real good scenario here. If we

793
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 1: did know about it or we didn't know about it.

794
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: Both of those things are a problem. But it's you know,

795
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: first of all, the question of what happens is important,

796
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: and second of all the realization that Israeli actions and

797
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: our unconditional support of Israel have put our service members

798
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: now in grave danger.

799
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 8: Yeah.

800
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: I mean, what is also actually shocking to me has

801
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 2: not been the change not It wasn't the actions itself,

802
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 2: although I mean obviously a violation of the Vienna Convention.

803
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: It was how quickly the Vienna Convention has begun to

804
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: fall apart. And as they're watching this with great interest,

805
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 2: let's put this up there on the screen. This actually,

806
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 2: by the way, is something that's happening in our hemisphere

807
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: and might affect US. Mexico has completely severed diplomatic ties

808
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: with Ecuador, where days after the Iranian strike, Ecuador actually

809
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: put actually words, police stormed in to the Ecuadorian or

810
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: into the Mexican embassy to arrest their former vice president.

811
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: This is an extraordinary breach of the Vienna Convention on

812
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: Consular Relations. And I mean, for example, the head of

813
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: the Mexican consular said in Quito, this is not possible,

814
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 2: it cannot be. This is crazy. I am very worried

815
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: they could kill him. There is no basis to do this.

816
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 2: This is totally outside of the norm. I mean, for

817
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: all time, people have dissidents and others. I don't even

818
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: know much about the particular governments here involved, and I

819
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: don't care because the reason why this is dangerous, this

820
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 2: is all happening at the same time, is that collapse

821
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 2: of consular relations is exactly especially amongst sovereign nations. We're

822
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: not talking here about protest groups or something like that.

823
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: Storming an embassy and holding people hostage is really a

824
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 2: total breakdown in international norms and violations, which, after they

825
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: become normalized over and over again, could lead to extraordinary things.

826
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: For example, there were often CIA plans to assassinate Julian

827
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: Assange inside of the Ecuadorian MS in London. Even the British,

828
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: the US and the CIA was like, no, we can't

829
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: do it. They were just even there, no matter what,

830
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,439
Speaker 2: not possible. Even in the height of the Cold War,

831
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: the United States never breached the Soviet embassy here in Washington. Now,

832
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: we definitely dug tunnels around said embassy and did some

833
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: interesting things, and they did the same to us, but

834
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 2: even they would never dare to enter our embassy. So

835
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: to watch the breakdown of this happen in real time,

836
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: this actually is what struck some real fear into me

837
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: because this is the problem. And this has also been

838
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 2: with the way that the US has operated. You know,

839
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 2: our military operates very differently. But then we have our

840
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 2: freaking John Kirby, spokesman for the White House, is like, oh,

841
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: Israel's most moral army in the world. Like they've even

842
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: done things that we would never do. Like that's not true,

843
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: that's actually not true at all.

844
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people who got their limbs

845
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: blown off, you know, going door to door when it

846
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: would have been a lot easier to just drop a

847
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 3: bomb the way that the Israelis did.

848
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: We never even considered it for a second US commanders

849
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: at that level. So watching this all become normalized has

850
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: actually been highly dangerous, I think to the international system, there.

851
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 4: Is no doubt about it.

852
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 1: And again, now our consular facilities, now our embassies abroad

853
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: are also at risk because there's no putting this toothpaste back.

854
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 4: In the tube.

855
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 1: We didn't say boo about this Israeli strike in Damascus

856
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: on Iran's consular building. We didn't say anything. We didn't

857
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 1: object to it, we didn't criticize it, we didn't say

858
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: anything about it. So how are we going to then

859
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: critique another country if they do the same thing.

860
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 4: This is now on the table, period.

861
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: End of story, and doctor Tree to Parsi making a

862
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: point about how it's not just with regard to this violation,

863
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: this flagrant violation of the Vienna Convention. Let's go and

864
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: put his tweet up on the screen. Here he says,

865
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: international norms being destroyed in front of our eyes. Israel

866
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: ignores you and Security Council resolutions and ICJ rulings. The

867
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: US after voting for that one resolution, then immediately oh,

868
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: it's not binding. Well, that is just not true. We're

869
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: just making stuff up. Israel bombs the Iranian consulate and

870
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: violation of Vienna Convention. Ecuador then attacks the Mexican embassy,

871
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: violating also the Vienna Convention. And you know, we've already

872
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: seen the way this is unfolded. Tzager previously, remember all

873
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: the moral language that the US would use about Russia's

874
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: actions in Ukraine.

875
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 4: They really kind of had to drop.

876
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: That because what Russia has done in Ukraine it's horrifying.

877
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: It was a violation of international law. I opposed it

878
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: from the beginning. I still oppose it today. It looks

879
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: tame compared to what Israel has done in the Gaza strip.

880
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: When you look at the numbers, when you look at

881
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: the destruction, when you look at the amount of civilian buildings,

882
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 1: targeting universities, just absolutely destroying the healthcare system, Alshifa Hospital,

883
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: desecrating cemeteries, schools, high rise apartment buildings, etc. There's no

884
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: going back from that. Those things are now on the table,

885
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: not just in Gaza, but everywhere around the world.

886
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in April of twenty twenty two, Biden

887
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: MCCUs putin of committing quote Jenis in Ukraine, Like it's like, really, now,

888
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: how could you possibly this is?

889
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 3: And by the way, this is why I oppose.

890
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 2: A lot of moralistic language and we're going to get

891
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: a guest here is because then you get caught into

892
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: little traps like this. It's like, well, what is the

893
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: difference between Russia and Israel's like whoa, oops, and you

894
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: see exactly how now they have to drop it and

895
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: now we have no strategic rationale for we got to

896
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: support Ukraine. We got to make sure that we're on

897
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: the front line of democracy. And now just watch. I

898
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: don't from what I understand, I haven't even seen yet

899
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: a response to the US or whatever the hell is

900
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: going on here with Mexico and with Ecuador. And you may,

901
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 2: you may pretend you know that it doesn't matter, but

902
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: Mexico and Ecuador the hell of a lot closer than

903
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: Gaza and Moscow or Kiev. These are places which really

904
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,479
Speaker 2: could affect us, breakdown relations between the two of them.

905
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: Vital US trading partner, one of the largest trading partners

906
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: in the world, and we just ignore it, you know, completely,

907
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: a flagrant attack and violation here in the Western hemisphere.

908
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 3: So was it greenlit by America.

909
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 2: That's another even more interesting, you know discussion, because if

910
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: it was, then we've basically had quasi you.

911
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 3: Know, green lights of a breach.

912
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 2: Of these things happen in a one week period, which

913
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 2: would have been extraordinary if they'd happened in the last

914
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: fifty years, even a couple of times. Really very underrated

915
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 2: discussion unfortunately. And I think that the Iranian the strike

916
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: on the Iranian embassy already we're seeing the result.

917
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is amazing, how quick, because I mean, I'm

918
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: sure Ecuadorians aren't stupid, they knew. We can't say anything

919
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: about it right now because we.

920
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 4: Just want Israel. So what are we going to say?

921
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 1: Wow, it's been great, but anyway, moving on, we can't

922
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: say anything about it because of what we have allowed

923
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: Israel to do.

924
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 4: And this is what Israel.

925
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: They do a little trial balloon, they test something out.

926
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: Hey can I get away with you know, attacking the hospital?

927
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 4: Oh we can.

928
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to destroy the entire health system. And

929
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: we know you're not going to say anything about it.

930
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: We know there's not going to be any accountability. We're

931
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: going to drop two thousand pound bunk or buster bombs.

932
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 1: On a refugee can killing hundreds of people to maybe

933
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: possibly get one Hamas Bady, You're going.

934
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 4: To say anything about it, You're gonna do anything?

935
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 8: No?

936
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, this is going to be our modus operande

937
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: for the rest of the war. Oh can we get

938
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 1: away with massacring civilians who are just trying to grab

939
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: a bag of flour so that they and their family

940
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: don't starve?

941
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 4: Can we get away with?

942
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 14: Oh?

943
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 4: Yeah we can. Okay, what else can we get away with?

944
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: And keep in mind again to go back to the

945
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 1: original point made here. Now this has put our service

946
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: members in grave danger because Ron.

947
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 4: Is not stupid.

948
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 1: They look at our very close relationship with Israel, They

949
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: look at how dependent the Israelis are ultimately on the

950
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: US supply of weapons, and they don't see this as

951
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: an attack just from Israel. They see this as an

952
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: attack from the US. And think about all of the

953
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: radicalization and all of the anti US hatred that is

954
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: being stoked around the world that could have massive blowback

955
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: consequences for our country and our service members for decades

956
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: to come. That is what our policy in the Middle

957
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: East has wrought.

958
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 4: For our country.

959
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: There has been a major fracture in the conservative media

960
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: ecosystem over the departure of Candace Owens from The Daily Wire.

961
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: Now we're not just covering YouTube drama for the sake

962
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: of it. This has genuinely become a major ideological fissure.

963
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: We've seen major figures in conservative media and conservative activist

964
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 2: debate what this means, what should be allowed. We've played

965
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 2: for everybody previously the comments by Ben Shapiro where he

966
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: justified the departure of Candace Owens, saying that the Daily

967
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 2: Wire itself is a publisher, that it is not a

968
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: platform and thus has no obligation to employ somebody who

969
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 2: doesn't agree with them. Very discontinent in the past, with

970
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: some of Ben's comments on Cancel culture and on social

971
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 2: media for example. This has definitely been taken notice by

972
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 2: some new entrants to the sphere, Patrick bet David in particular,

973
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 2: and comedian Andrew Schultz as well.

974
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 3: Here's what they had to say.

975
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 11: CBN is what what does CBN stand for?

976
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 17: Christian BRANCHA.

977
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 11: It's not a RBN religious broadcasting note fork, It's what

978
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 11: Christian broadcasting net worth. Daily Wire can be Daily DJW

979
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 11: Daily Jewish Wire or d i W Daily Israel Wire.

980
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 11: No problem. If that's your value, stick to that. We

981
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 11: all love in America. It should be America first, not

982
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 11: Iran first, not Armenia first, not Israel first. It should

983
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 11: be America first. If you think it's Israel first, go

984
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 11: to Israel.

985
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: I agree. I agree with every word the man just said.

986
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 2: You know, he actually, frankly, is probably more powerful than

987
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: me because he's not even from here. He said, as

988
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,240
Speaker 2: he said, he's like, he's what I think, Armenian Christian

989
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: from Iran. He's like, if you're Israel first, or if

990
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: you're Armenian first, or any of that.

991
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 3: He's like, that's fine. He's like, but put it there

992
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: in the title.

993
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 2: And I think what he's got I wouldn't have said

994
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 2: daily Jewish Wire personally Daily Israel Wire.

995
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 3: I mean, you listen based upon the comments that they

996
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: have made.

997
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 2: You had the CEO Jeremy Boring, who did Twitter space

998
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: whatever it's called x space is now at this point

999
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: he said, I would never hire somebody who said that

1000
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 2: there was a genocide happening in Gaza. And it's like, well,

1001
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: why you know, I mean, look, even if you disagree,

1002
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 2: why is that what is your I cannot imagine personally

1003
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: having any redline about any country.

1004
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 3: I'll give you a perfect example. My family is Indian.

1005
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: Ryan is very critical of the Modi government and has

1006
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 2: done multiple segments about censorship, including by the Way, which

1007
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: people in India got very upset at me about. You

1008
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 2: know what I said, stick to your own business in

1009
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: my country. This guy gets to do whatever he wants.

1010
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: Those are my editorial principles. Whether I agree or not,

1011
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't live there. I'm not an

1012
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: Indian citizen. Ben though, for example, and actually the entire

1013
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 2: leadership of the Daily Wire somehow think that it is

1014
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: okay to enforce foreign shibolits on our soil as it

1015
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 2: relates to an American media company. And I think it's

1016
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: entirely legitimate to level the criticism that Patrick and others

1017
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 2: have now put into the sphere.

1018
00:50:58,080 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 3: To go ahead, before I play Andrew.

1019
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: I just wanted to reiterate we're going to talk more

1020
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,839
Speaker 1: about Rogan and his comments. But I thought a very

1021
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: important point that he made when he initially said, hey,

1022
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: I think this is a genocide, which is, you know,

1023
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: talking about Israel's conduct in Gaza. It's a little bit

1024
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: different than whatever your like philosophical view is on abortion,

1025
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: or your philosophical view is on gay rights, any sort

1026
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: of like you know, culture war issue you're talking about. Basically,

1027
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: what Jeremy Boring and Ben Shapiro are saying is you

1028
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: are not allowed to acknowledge reality. You're not allowed to

1029
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,959
Speaker 1: talk honestly about the atrocities that are unfolding in front

1030
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 1: of us, that idea soldiers themselves are posting on TikTok.

1031
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: If you talk honestly about those things, you don't have

1032
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: a place at this network. And so I think that's

1033
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 1: part of why this actually ends up being important, because

1034
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: you know, the whole like facts versus feelings, Ben Shapiro,

1035
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: the facts are pretty undisputable about you.

1036
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 4: Listen there.

1037
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: You may not want to say the word genocide, but

1038
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: war crimes, ethnic cleansing. I mean, they have whole conferences

1039
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 1: there celebrating the idea of, hey, we're going to resettle Gaza,

1040
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: We're going to push everybody out. These things are undeniable.

1041
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: So is the facts or is it feelings? I think

1042
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: we on this one issue we have a very.

1043
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 4: Clear answer here.

1044
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1045
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely, look like you just said about you. Look again,

1046
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: I don't use more language. I think these are all

1047
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 2: loaded terms. My point though, is that when it comes

1048
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,399
Speaker 2: to how about this critical behavior that has been at

1049
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: the very least has backfired against his or can we

1050
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: talk about that.

1051
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 3: I haven't even heard to say that.

1052
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: Every time I check this man's feet, it's all retweeting

1053
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,959
Speaker 2: the justification, including Israel PM's like military justification of what's

1054
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 2: happening on the ground. I mean, why you're going to

1055
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 2: trust what they have to say? And this is coming

1056
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 2: from a person I'm a patriotic American. I love this country.

1057
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: I don't trust the US military. Right when the US

1058
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 2: military is like, hey, here's what we did to this

1059
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 2: hospital in Kundu's I'm like, well maybe, And you know

1060
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: who I ask. I ask people who are actually in

1061
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: the military, not that people were the spokesperson, and they're like,

1062
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 2: oh yeah, they're lying. The brass is full of shit,

1063
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 2: and they're you know, trying to, you know, paint you

1064
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: a different picture. Why can why do I have the

1065
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: wherewithal to do that in a country that I love.

1066
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: I'm not even a country that I'm not even from

1067
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 2: or don't live in.

1068
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 3: Very interesting, isn't it.

1069
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,479
Speaker 2: Comedian Andrew Schultz also I thought he put it really

1070
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 2: well in his discussion around centrist. One thing I love

1071
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: about comedians is that they're observational by nature and that

1072
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: whenever they see something, they don't come into it with

1073
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: the same preconceived like rhetoric and all that you're supposed to,

1074
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: and they can just kind of say it as it is.

1075
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say. He makes the argument

1076
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 3: for censorship.

1077
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 18: He calls it something else.

1078
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I forget the term I have in my phone,

1079
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 3: but I don't even think he's using the term right.

1080
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,240
Speaker 18: But he's basically like, there's a window of ideas we accept, yes,

1081
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 18: and we accept ideas between this this. I guess this

1082
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 18: is if I get window, you're looking like this, So

1083
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 18: we accept ideas between here and here, and anything outside

1084
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 18: of that window, well, you're fireable.

1085
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 3: That's censorships.

1086
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 19: But he's acting as if this is like a justified

1087
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 19: reason for firing people when you built your identity and

1088
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 19: platform off of no censorship and freedom of speech facts,

1089
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 19: don't care about your feelings and all this shit.

1090
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: It's also funny that that window happens to end where

1091
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: his beliefs enday not being pro Israel, that's where the

1092
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: window ends.

1093
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 3: That's also your specific personal belief I just don't.

1094
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 18: Can't have an opinion on your platform that is not

1095
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 18: pro a country that is not ours.

1096
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 3: Yeah wait a minute, crazy, So is the Daily Wire.

1097
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 18: An American media platform or is it an Israeli media platform.

1098
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 8: I'm just asking. This guy's cooking.

1099
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 2: He's just asking, and he's asking the right question. I

1100
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: think that again, is that And this is also why

1101
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 2: I think it's hilarious is that Israeli military defenders and

1102
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: israel firsters in the US have actually created their own

1103
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 2: worst nightmare where their behavior is now so obvious and

1104
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 2: is so so just so blatant in terms of flipping

1105
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: on a dime as regards to ansorship, cancel culture, free speech,

1106
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 2: student protests where oh, we're supposed to be upset because

1107
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: kids are crying on campus, that it is now clear

1108
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 2: what their real and first objective is. They care more

1109
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: about Israel than they do even about concepts and principles

1110
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: that we hold dear here in this country. And that's

1111
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: why I think it's very important that this fight has

1112
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: broken out. I will not lie and say that I

1113
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 2: don't think that they are very much still remain in power,

1114
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 2: especially whenever it comes to the elected you know, representatives.

1115
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: But as all things, you know, the online discussion is

1116
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: a precursor to possibly change fifteen twenty years down the line.

1117
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: And that is where I at least see things going

1118
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: right now, because this decision in particular has opened up

1119
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 2: a lot of people's eyes.

1120
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they turned on a dime, you know.

1121
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean it was very like, I'm a free speech

1122
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: absolutist in this period.

1123
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 4: End of story.

1124
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: And you can if you're the New York Times, you know,

1125
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: you can't say the Tom Cotton op ed is out

1126
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: of bounds. You can't fire that editor, the greenlitos because

1127
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: that's cancel culture. There was no discussion of an overtin

1128
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: window when it came to that, or you know, even

1129
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: more recently, when it came to Ronald McDaniel's firing it

1130
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: over at NBC News, that overton window was apparently not acceptable.

1131
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, yeah, the sort of language Ben is

1132
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: using now sounds like a lot of what liberals were

1133
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 1: saying when they were justifying censorship, saying no, at this outlet,

1134
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: these are the values that's perfectly acceptable. People should lose

1135
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: their jobs for having views, having viewpoints, expressing opinions, that

1136
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: are outside of what we consider to be acceptable discourse.

1137
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: That was the liberal justification, and now it's just very

1138
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: clear that you share that view. It just happens that,

1139
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: you know, you're fine with the views that they had

1140
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 1: problems with, You're fine with those on your platform. But

1141
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: there are other views, including most specifically on the issue

1142
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: of Israel, that are out of bads And I don't

1143
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 1: know that that's the only way to mentioned abortion as well.

1144
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: That probably is another one that would be out of

1145
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: bounds for him if you had someone there who was saying, no,

1146
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: I think women should have the right to choose, you know,

1147
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: all the way through the third trimester that air and

1148
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: we also would be out of bounds and grounds for

1149
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: firing on Ben Shapiro's network as well. So you know,

1150
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: just own up to it. Your views are different than

1151
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:10,839
Speaker 1: what you said that they were, and you built an

1152
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: entire media platform and a lot of wealth on, you know,

1153
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: espousing that you were this free speech, anti cancel culture guy,

1154
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: and you're not.

1155
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:19,440
Speaker 4: That's the bottom line here to me.

1156
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: That's actually probably what bugs me more than anything is

1157
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: because it would be I'm trying to think of an example. Yeah,

1158
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 2: it would be like if we started reading pharmaceutical ads,

1159
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: you know here on the show.

1160
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 3: Like that would be insane.

1161
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 2: We have raised money from well meaning, hard earned people's

1162
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 2: money to fund our program and then we're like, oh, yeah,

1163
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: we're just going to start reading like pvisor ads or

1164
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 2: something here on the show. People rightfully would be outraged,

1165
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: and they should be, because then why did we present

1166
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: years and years and years of building up a brand

1167
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: and trying to maintain integrity. I mean, and just so

1168
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,400
Speaker 2: people know, we have turned down massive offers for such

1169
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: types of things here on the show, regardless of how

1170
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 2: much money it is, simply because we know it would

1171
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: be a betrayal. But you know, if the real value

1172
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,919
Speaker 2: is about something else, as we all start to learn

1173
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,439
Speaker 2: here in this very revealing episode, I think it does

1174
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: tell us quite a bit. Let's put up this as well,

1175
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 2: because there has been now a gauntlet throne by Candace.

1176
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 2: So Candace Owen's challenging Ben Shapiro to a debate. There

1177
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: has been a lot of back and forth, and I

1178
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 2: won't get into all the details, but she says, barring

1179
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: the insinuation that there basically it was all this beef

1180
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: about whether she was traveling to London or not. Candace

1181
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 2: says that she does not want to participate in a

1182
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 2: debate with Ben Shapiro on the Daily Wire platform and

1183
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 2: that she wants it to be in person. She then

1184
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 2: says that I fully accept there will be no moderator.

1185
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 2: I will get in touch privately to get all of

1186
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 2: this set up. There has been a major win. But

1187
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: one of the problems, Crystal, if we look at some

1188
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: of the back and forth traffic, and then I think

1189
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: Candace is entirely correct about is she was like, Okay,

1190
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: let's debate, and Ben Shapiro was like, fine, come to

1191
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: my studio and debate me on my own show. And

1192
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 2: she said, well, why don't we pick Lex Friedman or

1193
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan or any of those places? And Jeremy Boring

1194
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 2: was like, no, accept that. Going after Patrick Tiff David

1195
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 2: Ben just participated in a debate on Lex Women's podcast

1196
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 2: were freaking destiny, you know, so why can't you do

1197
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: it with Candace Owans. It's one of those where there

1198
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: it's so weasily honestly, this idea that the moderator would

1199
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: put his foot on this, you know, would put his

1200
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 2: foot on the gas and some sort of direction. It's

1201
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 2: just one of those where, look, I hope that it

1202
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 2: actually does happen. I genuinely do, even though both sides

1203
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: have now allegedly agreed. We'll see if the Daily Wire

1204
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 2: at this point does try to get out of it.

1205
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: But you know the lengths and the lengths that they

1206
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 2: have gone to protect and to justify this decision over

1207
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 2: there as a business, I don't think we can ever

1208
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: say that this is a quote unquote free speech organization ever.

1209
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 3: Again, Yeah, at the very.

1210
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: Least, let me also say I genuinely think that some

1211
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: of Candace's comments. I mean, she's still on there defending

1212
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: Kanye West, who literally said I love Hitler.

1213
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 4: Okay, I do think.

1214
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: That some of her comments are incredibly can be classified

1215
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: as anti semitic. But she was making those comments before

1216
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: where you hired her here, and so that's the thing

1217
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: to me, is like, it's very clear that actually wasn't

1218
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: the line that was fine. It was when you were

1219
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: very theciperously critical of the Israeli government. And even he

1220
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: brings up who's the other commentator who has more of

1221
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 1: a like Listen, I just think we shouldn't be involved

1222
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: in anything. He's like that view was fine when it

1223
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 1: comes to israel I think it's but because he is,

1224
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: you know, very clear that he thinks Israel is a

1225
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: moral actor, that's also fine, that's acceptable. But if you're

1226
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: actually directly critical of the Israeli government in a way

1227
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: that you know, Ben finds it acceptable be critical of

1228
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: the American government, but you can't be critical in that

1229
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: way of the Israeli government. That's where the line was.

1230
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't the you know, weird Hitler comments, It wasn't

1231
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: backing up Kanye West. It was when you were directly

1232
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: critical of the Israeli government.

1233
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 4: That was the line too far.

1234
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: And so I think it's really important because people may

1235
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: look at some of our comments and you know what

1236
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: those around the bounds, and I see why they don't

1237
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: want that at that network. But that was not actually

1238
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: where the line was drawn. So keep that in mind.

1239
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, let's also talk in terms of like

1240
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: popular opinion, and it's perfectly acceptable at the Daily Wire

1241
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:03,680
Speaker 2: to be against IVF.

1242
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 3: That's like a three percent position here in the United States. Okay,

1243
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 3: so that but that's fine, But you know, it's not

1244
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 3: fine to be like, yeah, again, that's actually in a country,

1245
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 3: our country that affects US our policy.

1246
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: And I think that should be allowed. I am actually

1247
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: free speech absolutists. I'll pretty much hear anybody out, even

1248
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: if they're saying some absolutely crazy shit. But for them,

1249
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 2: for some reason, it's like that's within the bounds of

1250
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: the quote unquote Overton window, even though it's really not

1251
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 2: if you consider you know, US discourse, and here we're

1252
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: having a debate about a foreign country, and apparently that

1253
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 2: is completely out of bounds.

1254
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 3: So let's just hammer that home.

1255
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: It's fine you want to have an Overton where you

1256
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: are allowed to have whoever you want to have on

1257
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: your plant.

1258
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: That's fine.

1259
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: But I don't want to hear your criticism of other

1260
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: news outlets and other publishers quote unquote Overton window and

1261
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 1: the way they draw the lines, if they have to

1262
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 1: be a little different fro where you draw the lines.

1263
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear that criticism anymore, because you

1264
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: do not have grounds to stand on avice point.

1265
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: I could not agree with that more. There was also

1266
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: really interesting. There's some other actors that have been entering

1267
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 2: the debate. Christopher Rufo, the CRT kind of campaigner who

1268
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: entered the fray with some analysis let's put this up

1269
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: on the screen. It's really worth reading. We have the

1270
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 2: full statement here, but basically it comes down to this.

1271
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: He says, it is not a violation of freedom of

1272
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: speech to let a multimillion dollar contract expire, which is

1273
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 2: reportedly what happened. The Daily Wire is not obligated to

1274
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: subsize Candace owns, especially if she's deviating from the publication's

1275
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:29,160
Speaker 2: editorial standard or causing problems. DW is not an open

1276
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 2: platform such as YouTube, Facebook x, and the owners of

1277
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 2: the publications are under no obligation, so that is definitely true.

1278
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 3: They say.

1279
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 2: Owen spent months taking public shots at Ben Shapiro and

1280
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: Jeremy boring a tacit request to get canned and then

1281
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 2: play the martyr, she said. Then, he continues, Owens is

1282
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: a gifted speaker who has been able to turn controversy

1283
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 2: into attention, a valuable capability, but she does not advance

1284
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 2: a serious politics. She is clearly traveling down and ugly

1285
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: but unfortunately well trodden path. She has rationalized. Okay, blah

1286
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 2: blah blah, all this about Candace. There is an audience

1287
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: for such kind of material. Infot Wars does a robust

1288
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 2: business vitamins and emergency prep kits. But it's a political

1289
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: dead end. Why does it matter? Because the right faces

1290
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 2: an inflection point. There are serious people who are trying

1291
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 2: to advance a serious political movement with a vision for governing.

1292
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 2: I consider the Daily Wire to be among them. And

1293
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 2: then there are serious people who are willing to sell

1294
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: ca fabe and conspiracy leading us nowhere. I care about

1295
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 2: politics because I believe we have subjective work to do

1296
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: for the country, and this requires putting together a coalition

1297
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 2: capable of taking responsibility. The choice is ours, so interesting

1298
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: analysis there now Here's the other issue that I have

1299
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 2: with this. If you presume that the Daily Wire is

1300
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: a serious political organization and all of that, well, this

1301
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:43,400
Speaker 2: is a political vision for an incredibly unpopular GOP, I

1302
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: would venture, I mean, I would say with Canvas at least,

1303
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 2: I'd much rather be with her in terms of where

1304
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 2: she's willing to go, especially with regards to Donald Trump

1305
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 2: and some more maga style politics actually as a shot

1306
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: at electability, than with people who are out there sparking

1307
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 2: conversation why cutting social security, banning abortion, banning IVF, Which

1308
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,680
Speaker 2: do you think is a more serious political movement and

1309
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 2: capable of moving things forward, but curious what you have

1310
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 2: to say.

1311
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: That is a great point. Ye, you made the IVF

1312
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: point previously. The serious ones are the ones who are

1313
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: in favor of banning IVF, something that almost literally no

1314
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: one supports. Okay, but you know what, I would dissent

1315
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 1: from you in one regard. I actually think his analysis

1316
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: here of Candace Owens is basically correct. Those are all

1317
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,920
Speaker 1: reasons to have not hired Candace Owens in the first place,

1318
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: but it has nothing to do with the reason she

1319
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: was actually fired.

1320
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:41,520
Speaker 4: So it's a little bit irrelevant, Like you might be happy.

1321
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 1: She's gone for these other various reasons you don't think

1322
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: she's a quote unquote serious person, which okay, I mean

1323
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: I kind of agree with you there, but again, that

1324
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: isn't really relevant to what happened here and the specific

1325
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: reasons the specific context around why she was fired at

1326
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: this point in time. Yes, these would all have been

1327
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: good reasons for Ben Shapiro never to hire her, and

1328
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, to have never indulged the supporting Kanye when

1329
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: he was saying things that were really unsupportable. But all

1330
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: of those things were fine. So let's not pretend otherwise,

1331
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 1: like I said, Christopher Rufe, you may be glad she's

1332
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: gone for all those ritary that's fine, but that really

1333
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 1: is kind of irrelevant.

1334
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 2: It's also a misunderstanding too, of what we're doing. The

1335
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 2: Daily Wire is not a political organization. It is an

1336
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 2: entertainment media company whose job is to make money. And

1337
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 2: that's why they hired Candice Owens in the first place.

1338
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: It's also why they have all these freaking cartoons and

1339
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 2: whatever their movies.

1340
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 3: Isn't there coming with snow White? I think? Anyway? My

1341
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 3: point is that's not what serious political actors do.

1342
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:45,480
Speaker 1: Lady scholars, yeah, very serious, very serious film sager, lady ballers.

1343
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 2: Well to check, and I have not yet seen a

1344
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 2: quote unquote conservative movie out there that is in any

1345
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 2: way like actually good.

1346
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 4: You know, Griffin said, it wasn't that bad. Okay, all right,

1347
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 4: it wasn't that bad.

1348
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:57,480
Speaker 3: I don't know that.

1349
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 4: I don't know that I call it serious.

1350
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,439
Speaker 2: My only point here would be exactly that you're right,

1351
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: and that it's actually a misunderstanding.

1352
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 3: That's why they hired Candae in the first place because

1353
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 3: of the ratings. They want ratings, they want the controversy,

1354
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 3: they want people to watch, they want people to subscribe,

1355
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 3: and that's fine.

1356
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 2: Just be honest though about what line of business you're in.

1357
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 2: So this is also a big misunderstanding, I think, both

1358
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 2: on the political level and also here in terms of

1359
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 2: what they're actually trying to achieve. Let's move on now

1360
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 2: to Joe Rogan. There was a really interesting conversation between

1361
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,640
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan and Coleman Hughes on their podcast around Israel.

1362
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 2: Coleman previously has been I would say, I think it's

1363
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 2: fair to say a defender of Israeli military actions, but

1364
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 2: even generally, he's a serious guy and he's willing to

1365
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: kind of hear things out and to debate. So him

1366
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: and Rogan kind of went at it around is really

1367
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 2: military conduct? Some revealing things here in the discussion. Let's

1368
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 2: take a listen, we'll react on the other side.

1369
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 20: There was one point where you were kind of saying,

1370
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 20: it's almost as if the Jews are doing what was

1371
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,439
Speaker 20: done to them, well as what it's genocide.

1372
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 21: I'm saying that when you're killing thirty thousand innocent civilians

1373
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 21: in response to something that killed twelve hundred innocent civilians,

1374
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 21: and you're continuing to bomb an area into oblivion, which

1375
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 21: is what it looks like when you're looking at Gaza.

1376
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 21: There's many people that have made the argument that that

1377
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 21: is at least the steps of genocide or a form

1378
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 21: of genocide. You're destroying thousands and thousands of people's homes

1379
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 21: and killing them.

1380
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 20: So when you say thirty thousand civilians, it's not thirty

1381
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 20: thousand civilians that have been killed.

1382
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 17: Though, how many thousands have been killed?

1383
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 20: So according to Gaza Health Ministry, which is it is

1384
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 20: run by Hamas, the number they have is thirty two thousand,

1385
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 20: but they don't distinguish between Hamas and civilians.

1386
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 17: How many members of Hamas are there.

1387
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 20: Forty thousand something like that. I don't think the number

1388
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 20: is known, but it's tens of thousands. So Hamas says

1389
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 20: thirty two thousand people have been killed, civilians and soldiers.

1390
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,800
Speaker 20: Israel says thirteen thousand soldiers have been killed by Israel.

1391
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 20: You just being let's not doubt either number. They could

1392
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 20: both be eated. But but if both of those numbers

1393
01:08:07,840 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 20: are accurate, which they may or may not be, that

1394
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 20: would be thirteen thousand soldiers killed nineteen thousand civilians killed,

1395
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 20: which for urban combat in the Middle East is a

1396
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 20: very normal ratio.

1397
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 21: I could see see what you're saying if you wanted

1398
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,560
Speaker 21: to look at it cold and objectively.

1399
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 8: Yeah, but don't.

1400
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 20: I still I hope it doesn't come across cold because but.

1401
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 21: It's mostly women and children that are dying, that are

1402
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 21: that are dying because they're in a place where these

1403
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 21: terrorists are, right, I mean this is it's.

1404
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 20: Not because the terrorists on purpose embed themselves with the

1405
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 20: civilian population, which is a war crime.

1406
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,240
Speaker 21: Which is a strategy that they have clearly employed when

1407
01:08:46,280 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 21: you see them and when when the IDEF went into

1408
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 21: that hospital and found the recently. Yes, yeah, so it's real.

1409
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 21: It's not just a conspiracy theory. We know that that's real.

1410
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 21: But it's still you're still talking about twenty thousand whatever

1411
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 21: it is of innocent people getting bombed into the Stone Age.

1412
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 21: That one aidation was that they were shooting people that

1413
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 21: were trying to get aid.

1414
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 17: Yes, yes, and you don't think that's the case.

1415
01:09:12,960 --> 01:09:14,480
Speaker 20: I think it's very unlikely.

1416
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 17: Is it possible, Yeah, it's possible. Absolutely, there is.

1417
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 20: The assumption is that there is going to be war

1418
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 20: crimes in this war, right because and I know Kurt

1419
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 20: would probably say, I'm doing the tragedy of war thing.

1420
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,120
Speaker 20: But it's actually a legitimate point. In every single war,

1421
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 20: even the just ones, there are war crimes by berserk

1422
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,560
Speaker 20: soldiers by the good guys. That doesn't mean it's genocide,

1423
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 20: and that doesn't mean it's not a just war.

1424
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 3: Interesting, Carsonal, So there's a lot here.

1425
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: So first of all, with regard to the targeting of

1426
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 1: women and children, we actually just learned quite a bit

1427
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: and I am going to lay all this out in

1428
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: my monologue, but there is an act of Israeli government

1429
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: official policy which says, Hey, first of all, we're not

1430
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: just going to target the high level Hamas commanders. We're

1431
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: going to target even just like random rank and file

1432
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: Hamas members. Okay, fine, but we're going to specifically do

1433
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: that using a program a kid you not called Where's

1434
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 1: Daddy that allows us to target them when they are

1435
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:15,280
Speaker 1: at home with their wives and children.

1436
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 4: Furthermore, we are going to generate.

1437
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: Our target list using AI and we're not actually going

1438
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: to check whether these are Hamas militants. The only thing

1439
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: we're going to check is whether or not they are male.

1440
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: This speaks to the comments from reporter Barack Revide about

1441
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:32,760
Speaker 1: how basically the assumption from the Israeli government is that

1442
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 1: any fighting age male, including miners, by the way, is

1443
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: a Hamas militant. So when you see their numbers about

1444
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: how many Hamas members they've killed, they are not correct.

1445
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:47,639
Speaker 1: No serious body believes the Israeli narrative of how many

1446
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: Hammas fighters have killed. Okay, So what is the civilian

1447
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: ratio here? Because you know he's saying, okay, you can't

1448
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: trust the Gaza Health Ministry because they're affiliated with Hamas well.

1449
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: Previous research has shown that they're members are actually quite correct,

1450
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 1: but let's put that aside. UN report says that seventy

1451
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 1: percent of those killed are women and children. Okay, so

1452
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: you don't have to take the Israeli government or the

1453
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: Gaza Health Ministry's.

1454
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 4: Word for it.

1455
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: Seventy percent of those killed are women and children. So

1456
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: that's on the death toll. Then you talk about the

1457
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: destruction of civilian infrastructure and the way Coleman portrays it,

1458
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, you know, one hospital maybe because

1459
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 1: there was a command and control center, which again the

1460
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 1: Israelis never actually proved the allegation, the extraordinary allegations that

1461
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: they made about what was allegedly happening at Alshievla Hospital,

1462
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 1: But that was far from the only health care facility

1463
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: that was targeted. Three hundred and one according to euromed monitor,

1464
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,759
Speaker 1: health care facilities have been targeted, including twenty nine hospitals,

1465
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: sixty nine clinics, two hundred and three ambulances. So this

1466
01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:56,759
Speaker 1: was an all out destruction, intentional destruction of the healthcare system.

1467
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:01,680
Speaker 1: You had universities that were destroyed through controlled demolition. They

1468
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 1: never even made an argument though, oh Amas is hiding here,

1469
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: blah blah. No, they just decided to destroy the entirety

1470
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: of the university system in Gaza as well churches, mosques.

1471
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: Two hundred and sixty nine thousand homes have been at

1472
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 1: least partially destroyed. One hundred and twenty two thousand homes

1473
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: have been completely destroyed. The devastation is greater than dressed in.

1474
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: So to look at this and say, oh, it's this

1475
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, targeted, strategic, very disciplined operation.

1476
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe there may be an occasional war.

1477
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,839
Speaker 1: Crime or two, is just to really deny the actual

1478
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: reality of what's happening here and to frankly, dishonestly manipulate

1479
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: the facts that we know in order to try to

1480
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: support something that is increasingly difficult to.

1481
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 3: Support our respect women.

1482
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 2: I think what he is missing here is that it's

1483
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 2: about intent, and I understand, you know, he's his point

1484
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 2: about like I think war crimes are inevitable.

1485
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 3: I actually agree.

1486
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:05,479
Speaker 2: I don't think it's possible for human civilizations to go

1487
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 2: into combat.

1488
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 3: For me, it is about the intent of the highest.

1489
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 2: Military authorities in the civilian leadership that are at hand.

1490
01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 2: Is the intentional purpose that is then filtered down through

1491
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 2: the military and then through enforcement of rules to minimize

1492
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 2: that to as much as possible or is it not?

1493
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:24,840
Speaker 17: Now?

1494
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,919
Speaker 2: We have not seen that behavior from the very beginning

1495
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 2: from the Israeli military, from the Israeli government, and within

1496
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,600
Speaker 2: frankly the Israeli You know, from the lowest level to

1497
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 2: the highest level, you have had zero enforcement of a

1498
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 2: actual reasonable rules of engagement. You've seen very little actual

1499
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 2: military strategy for accomplishing their alleged end.

1500
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 3: You've seen collective punishment.

1501
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 2: You have seen a basically a policy of indistinguishable likes

1502
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 2: rules of engagement employed against civilians versus militants.

1503
01:13:58,040 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 3: That's where it all comes to.

1504
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 2: I think a reasonable picture of what this is and

1505
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,520
Speaker 2: why people who can be quote unquote pro the ability

1506
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 2: to go to war or even in a just war,

1507
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,839
Speaker 2: can criticize best at policy in the age of precision

1508
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 2: guided munitions, in the age of counterinsurgency and more. It

1509
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 2: is one thing, you know, to talk about bombing civilian

1510
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 2: populations from b twenty nine's on Tokyo when there was

1511
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: a limited amount of military you know, military capacity, there

1512
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 2: was you know, very very difficult options that were to

1513
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 2: be changed. It's another when we were talking about non

1514
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 2: peer to peer nations that are going to war with

1515
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: each other in the twenty first century with the capacity

1516
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 2: to militarily occupy if they wanted, with a capacity to

1517
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,440
Speaker 2: distinguish civilians from militants if they wanted, and then explicitly

1518
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 2: to not make that choice. That is what my biggest

1519
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 2: criticism I would say of him was. And I also think,

1520
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 2: you know, not really engaging too either with some of

1521
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 2: the aid workers that Rogan brings up.

1522
01:14:58,120 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 3: There at the end.

1523
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 2: And that's why I think it is self evidently available

1524
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,919
Speaker 2: and obvious to people who are observers of the conflict

1525
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 2: that even if you don't have a bias, and especially

1526
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 2: if you don't have a bias, just try to look

1527
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 2: at it. You know, one to one and you're like, okay, look,

1528
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 2: we can be reasonable here. We can understand that some

1529
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 2: sort of response is justified, you know, and we can

1530
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,640
Speaker 2: have compassion and feel the horror of October seventh and

1531
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 2: justify and understand the state of Israel and where they

1532
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 2: come from and all that, and still have very very

1533
01:15:26,360 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 2: reasonable criticisms of that state, which is part of the

1534
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:31,759
Speaker 2: why I like to look at the actual Israeli society,

1535
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:34,559
Speaker 2: where apparently they're allowed to have more dissent than we are.

1536
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:36,600
Speaker 2: I guess, at least to a point. That's what I

1537
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 2: would say.

1538
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 4: I think a couple more points.

1539
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: So just to me, when the government announces a complete

1540
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 1: siege and now we see children and babies literally starving

1541
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: to death from that point on, from the announcement of

1542
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 1: the complete siege, it becomes preposterous to say they're not

1543
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,120
Speaker 1: targeting civilians. Like, to me, that's this game over. Obviously

1544
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:01,880
Speaker 1: they are. They just announced it. They said these are

1545
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,120
Speaker 1: human animals, they're gonna be treated as such. We're announcing

1546
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 1: a complete stage. How can you then argue, oh, they're

1547
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:14,719
Speaker 1: not targeting civilians. It's preposterous. Also, they dropped indiscriminately two

1548
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 1: thousand pound bunker buster bombs, which are on military said,

1549
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: way too much in an urban fighting environment on refugee

1550
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 1: camps to maybe possibly get one Hamas militant and you're

1551
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 1: killing hundreds of civilians. This is not this is not defensible.

1552
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:39,400
Speaker 1: In no context is this defensible. And this wasn't a whoopsie.

1553
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 1: We've actually thought it was a whole Hamas.

1554
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 4: Brigade there or whatever.

1555
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:49,280
Speaker 1: Know, they intentionally dropped two thousand pounds bunker buster bombs

1556
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:50,839
Speaker 1: on refugee camps.

1557
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:53,680
Speaker 4: Lastly, Joe brings up.

1558
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,880
Speaker 1: I think he's referring to the Flower masacre that we

1559
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 1: covered extensively here where you had over one hundred Palestinians killed,

1560
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:02,599
Speaker 1: where you had this you know, aid convoy coming in

1561
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: and people who were waiting for it. This is in

1562
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 1: northern Gaza, where the humanitarian situation is the most dire

1563
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: and the highest levels of actual starvation, and some are

1564
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: saying now actually has tipped into famine. That's where we're

1565
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 1: talking about. And remember the Israeli military their story was, oh, well,

1566
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: they these Palestinians, they're just barbarians. They got out of control,

1567
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: they were stampeding each other and then the truck may

1568
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 1: have even run some of them over and we fired

1569
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: some warning shots. Said, but that's it, that's all we did,

1570
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: the Palestinian said, And by the way, this isn't the

1571
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,080
Speaker 1: only massacre that has happened in the context of Palestinians

1572
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 1: seeking aid. They said, no, the Israelis fired on us

1573
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: using tanks and also using guns. And you know, the

1574
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 1: people who were killed overwhelmingly it was.

1575
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 4: From gunshot wounds.

1576
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: Okay, save two competing claims, how do you figure out

1577
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: which one is correct? Well, were most of the deaths

1578
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: caused from stampede, you know, crushing injuries, or were they

1579
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: from gunshot wounds? The doctors and independent observers on the

1580
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:05,439
Speaker 1: ground said overwhelmingly it was from gunshot wounds to the

1581
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 1: head to the chest. This was not oh, we're firing

1582
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: warning shots their feet or whatever. So we do actually

1583
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 1: know what happened there. It is knowable because we have

1584
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: two competing stories, and the facts in reality match up

1585
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:20,599
Speaker 1: much more closely with what the Palestinian said happened. So

1586
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:23,519
Speaker 1: and then again to just sort of wave that one

1587
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: away as, oh, well, you know, war crimes, they're going

1588
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 1: to happen.

1589
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 4: Maybe that was a war crime. I don't know.

1590
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 1: And then to ignore all of the other AID massacres,

1591
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,040
Speaker 1: all of the other assaults and civilian infrastructure.

1592
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 4: What's your war crumes?

1593
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 1: To ignore the complete siege, to ignore everything else that's happened,

1594
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 1: and just dismiss that as a one off, is to

1595
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 1: deny the reality of what has actually been a top down,

1596
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:49,799
Speaker 1: systematic assault that is wildly in contravention at every turn

1597
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:53,839
Speaker 1: with international lawn and very and is quite consistent according

1598
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: to the ICJ, according to according to the UN Special

1599
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 1: Rapperteur on Human Rights in the Occupied Territory Tories, is

1600
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 1: at least plausible and in the words of Francescalbani's reasonable

1601
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 1: grounds to say that this is an ongoing genocide. So

1602
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: that's what I would say in response to some of

1603
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:13,280
Speaker 1: what was laid out there.

1604
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 3: Anyway, I'm at least glad he's having people on there

1605
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 3: debating this.

1606
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 2: It's good. It's good for people. All right, let's go

1607
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 2: move on to the next one. Trump Politics. We'll have

1608
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 2: some more politics in the show tomorrow. I promised, we're

1609
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:25,680
Speaker 2: a mercy at the news here. But here's what we

1610
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 2: saw over the weekend. Let's put this up there on

1611
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,599
Speaker 2: the screen. The Trump campaign says that it raised more

1612
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: than fifty million dollars at a Saturday fundraiser. This was

1613
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,839
Speaker 2: a huge announcement because it was one both where according

1614
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 2: to his campaign aid, he pressed again for Joe Biden

1615
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 2: to debate him, but it was to debut the bundling

1616
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 2: organization that they had created behind the scenes. They say,

1617
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 2: quote Trump is pushing to close the massive fundraising disadvantage

1618
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:54,640
Speaker 2: against Biden. Figures released by the two campaigns show that

1619
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 2: Biden ended March with one hundred and ninety two million

1620
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 2: dollars on hand, more than twice as much as Donald Trump.

1621
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 2: At Saturday's evening's event, we're asked to donate as much

1622
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 2: as eight hundred and fourteen thousand dollars, so he was

1623
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: able to make a dent with that one hundred and

1624
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:12,439
Speaker 2: ninety two million gap, close twenty five percent of it

1625
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 2: in just a single night. And they say that Trump

1626
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 2: is actually set to hold another high dollar fundraiser on

1627
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 2: Wednesday in Atlanta. During the private marks, they say Trump

1628
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 2: reirated his call for Biden to debate him after refusing

1629
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 2: to participate in the Republican primary debates. Biden, of course

1630
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,439
Speaker 2: last month had said that you know, he said, well,

1631
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 2: of course he wants to debate me, and he won't

1632
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 2: necessarily commit to it. Apparently, though he also made some

1633
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 2: actual comments when it comes to policy that we wanted

1634
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 2: to make sure we covered. Put it up there, please

1635
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,920
Speaker 2: on the screen. They say, he told them that he

1636
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: will keep their taxes low. At the fifty million dollar fundraiser,

1637
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,280
Speaker 2: according to him, they say, Trump speaked and spoke to

1638
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:52,240
Speaker 2: the need to win back the White House so that

1639
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 2: we can turn our country around, focus on key issues

1640
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 2: including unleashing energy productions, securing our southern border, reducing inflation,

1641
01:20:59,320 --> 01:21:03,280
Speaker 2: extending the Trump tax cuts, eliminating the Biden electric vehicle mandate,

1642
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 2: protecting Israel, and avoiding global war in a roughly forty

1643
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 2: five minute speech.

1644
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,120
Speaker 3: But attendees say that.

1645
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 2: When the cameras were off, he certainly said that he

1646
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 2: would keep taxes low to some of the billionaires, So

1647
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:17,960
Speaker 2: it would explain, you know, why so many of them

1648
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 2: are very willing to shell out. Frankly, I would say

1649
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 2: he has more institutional Republican support today than he has

1650
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 2: at any point in his entire career because post January sixth,

1651
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,360
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Trump tax cuts and all that, they

1652
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 2: were still happy, but there was so much culture war

1653
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:34,559
Speaker 2: nonsense going.

1654
01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 3: On at the time.

1655
01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 2: A lot of them wouldn't openly say it, but this

1656
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 2: really to me shows that he is not only in

1657
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 2: charge of the Republican Party obvious for quite a long time,

1658
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: but he's got a lot of the traditional business types too.

1659
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:48,200
Speaker 2: Whoever is left in here, they're all in for Trump.

1660
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: Yes, I think Wall Street has gotten very comfy with

1661
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: the idea of another Trump term, not only because yeah,

1662
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: he was good to them in terms of tax cuts,

1663
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 1: but also because Biden has been very His administration has

1664
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:06,639
Speaker 1: been good and aggressive on anti trust in a way

1665
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: that the business world absolutely hates. And just look at

1666
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,120
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal and the like out and out

1667
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 1: jihad they have against Lena Kon however, many op eds

1668
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:20,920
Speaker 1: that they've written, whatever, and so, because there's much more

1669
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 1: scrutiny of these big merger deals going through, that leads

1670
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: to a lot of Wall Street types who are getting

1671
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:28,720
Speaker 1: they're big bonuses at the end of the year.

1672
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 4: They hate that.

1673
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,839
Speaker 1: Of course, the CEOs and executive class and the owner class,

1674
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 1: they hate the fact that they're having to jump through

1675
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 1: these hoops and undergo scrutiny that they haven't faced in

1676
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: their entire lifetimes. With regards to these massive transactions in

1677
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 1: the way that they're screwing consumers and workers alike.

1678
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,839
Speaker 4: So they don't like those pieces.

1679
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:48,720
Speaker 1: And I think the original fears with Trump were like, oh,

1680
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 1: chaos and uncertainty and what's this going to mean for

1681
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,000
Speaker 1: the business environment. But now that they've seen it once

1682
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: around and they have these antitrust and pro labor pieces

1683
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 1: from the Bidens station that they really hate, suddenly there,

1684
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 1: you know, Jamie Diamond and the like even are much

1685
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: more comfy with a Trump second term. So to the

1686
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:10,720
Speaker 1: two things that I found most noteworthy there in the

1687
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 1: list of issues that were important to him were extending

1688
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,240
Speaker 1: the Trump tax cuts, which yes, means these you know,

1689
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: billionaires will keep their breaks, and also protecting Israel, making

1690
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 1: sure to mention that, and he's you know, he's said

1691
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 1: some comments that could kind of be interpreted however you

1692
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: want to interpret them. But behind closed doors at this fundraiser,

1693
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,719
Speaker 1: he's making it clear he's going to be lockstep support

1694
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,800
Speaker 1: for Israel, as he was as well in his first term.

1695
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 2: I would not count out, though, the impact of these dollars,

1696
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 2: given the way that national trends are going and when

1697
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 2: we compare them let's go put the next one please

1698
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 2: up on the screen, just to give an example. So

1699
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 2: if you look at the March fundraising numbers, where Biden

1700
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,599
Speaker 2: was significantly outpacing Trump, the Biden campaign, though, is raising

1701
01:23:48,680 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 2: twenty six million dollars, for example, quote in a single

1702
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,480
Speaker 2: night with their star studed event, and that included Obama

1703
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 2: and Bill Clinton.

1704
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 3: This is double that one. Now, let's let's be real.

1705
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:02,520
Speaker 2: They might have lined things up to get the headline

1706
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,240
Speaker 2: the Trump campaign did to make sure that it got

1707
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 2: fifty million. I'm almost certainly let's watch and see what

1708
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:09,600
Speaker 2: comes out of Atlanta, though, because if they're able to

1709
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 2: put up twenty some million dollars in the same way

1710
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 2: that the Biden campaign can, and note there ain't no

1711
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:18,920
Speaker 2: protesters at Trump campaign events or Trump Trump Big Trump

1712
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 2: organization rallies, and that demonstrates that the unity of the coalition,

1713
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 2: a ton of money, and then the popularity that is

1714
01:24:26,880 --> 01:24:29,760
Speaker 2: going in the tide of Trump. One thing, as we'll

1715
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:31,759
Speaker 2: always trying and do here is present the other side.

1716
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there on the screen. Some polls. Now,

1717
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 2: what we're beginning to see is that polls are suggesting

1718
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 2: a shift in the electorate in a way that is

1719
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 2: very counter to recent history. Joe Biden quote is struggling

1720
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:49,880
Speaker 2: with young voters, but is performing better than most Democrats

1721
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 2: with older voters. Maybe they see a kinsman there in

1722
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: the White House. But from what we see, the quote

1723
01:24:57,240 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 2: unquote age inversion is quote the warning sign of a

1724
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,479
Speaker 2: structural problem in twenty twenty four election polling. One of

1725
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,599
Speaker 2: the reasons that they are showing this is that if

1726
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:10,880
Speaker 2: you break down things by crosstabs, Biden's strength amongst older

1727
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 2: voters may actually indicate and undercount because even if Trump

1728
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 2: does surge amongst young voters, Latinos and all those other people,

1729
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 2: that's great, but let's be real, they don't vote. And

1730
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: I'm talking statistically younger voters. Minority voters too very very

1731
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 2: unlikely to actually vote in the same numbers as white boomers.

1732
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 2: The median voter in this country is a fifty five

1733
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:36,720
Speaker 2: year old white man who is non college educated. If

1734
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 2: Biden is able to keep some strength with that person

1735
01:25:40,840 --> 01:25:46,160
Speaker 2: in the electorate, that will actually indicate that the polls

1736
01:25:46,240 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: right now could actually be overstating Trump support. Just something

1737
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:52,400
Speaker 2: that we had to throw out there because it is interesting,

1738
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 2: and I mean I guess it makes sense.

1739
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 3: He's an older man.

1740
01:25:55,560 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 2: He is the embodiment of silent gen and boomerism. Like

1741
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 2: in one he's been around forever. Boomers love the whole

1742
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,600
Speaker 2: like we need a man with experience thing in the

1743
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,760
Speaker 2: White House. He like checks all the boxes. So and

1744
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 2: then they love cable TV and Biden. Biden is mostly

1745
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,760
Speaker 2: beloved by MSNBC and CNN. So if you put those

1746
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,600
Speaker 2: things together, it does actually tract to me.

1747
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a little mystified, genuinely about the polls. I

1748
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: don't know what to make of any of them at

1749
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:22,720
Speaker 1: this point. You know, are they under counting Biden? Are

1750
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: they undercounting Trump? I have no idea.

1751
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 4: I'm just throwing my hands up and taking all of

1752
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 4: it with a grain of salt. I find it hard to.

1753
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:31,720
Speaker 1: Believe they cite a couple of poles here that has

1754
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 1: Trump actually a head of Biden among millennial and gen

1755
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 1: Z voters. I find that hard to believe Biden taking

1756
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:40,479
Speaker 1: a hit among those voters.

1757
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 4: And obviously younger.

1758
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,840
Speaker 1: Voters are more open to third party candidates.

1759
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 4: Okay, but Trump actually beating Biden among those voters.

1760
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 1: It just if you look at the ideological profile of

1761
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:53,519
Speaker 1: them It really doesn't add up, you know, when you

1762
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:57,639
Speaker 1: think about their positioning on any number of issues across

1763
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:01,880
Speaker 1: the board. It's hard for me to see that actually

1764
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 1: playing out. But it's being found in multiple poles. But

1765
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 1: then that's the other thing is then you can find

1766
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 1: another pole that has it like the complete opposite direction.

1767
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: Biden continuing to have a twenty point lead ahead of

1768
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:15,519
Speaker 1: Trump with voters under the age of thirty five. So

1769
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm just throwing out there, I don't know what the

1770
01:27:17,160 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 1: hell is going on with these poles.

1771
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:20,600
Speaker 4: I genuinely don't know. I find it very hard to

1772
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,559
Speaker 4: believe Trump is actually winning with young voters. Is eating

1773
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 4: into the lead? Is o RFK Junior.

1774
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Posing a threat for Biden and causing him problems with

1775
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 1: these voters?

1776
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 4: Cornell West Jill Stein.

1777
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: Sure, but I'm skeptical that this massive like youth wave

1778
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:39,639
Speaker 1: towards actually affirmatively towards Trump is actually happening.

1779
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:41,080
Speaker 3: It depends on the gender balance too.

1780
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 2: If you told me he's me winning amongst young men,

1781
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 2: I would believe it actually at the very least of

1782
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,439
Speaker 2: like fifty some percent if you include women in that.

1783
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,040
Speaker 2: I do find it hard to believe. Ideologically, people are

1784
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 2: Let's be honest. People are all over the map and

1785
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,040
Speaker 2: have very very divergent opinions whenever it comes to politics,

1786
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 2: so etan just looking at that and mapping it out

1787
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:00,720
Speaker 2: onto the current candidates is not is not usually one

1788
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 2: to one.

1789
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:02,240
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1790
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:05,400
Speaker 2: I would say if it is true that Biden is

1791
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 2: doing better amongst older voters, that is a major sign

1792
01:28:08,479 --> 01:28:10,639
Speaker 2: of strength for him and one that we should pay

1793
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 2: very very close attention to. And that is one that

1794
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 2: I actually really do believe just given his politics, given

1795
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 2: the way that they like to see the country and

1796
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:23,320
Speaker 2: the things that they value, they're probably a lot less

1797
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 2: likely than I mean, this is where the media question

1798
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,439
Speaker 2: comes in. They live in a different universe than the

1799
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 2: rest of us. They are literally not online unless it's

1800
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 2: their email or Facebook. That is not the same. But

1801
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 2: the way that we all consume media, and with that,

1802
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:40,840
Speaker 2: you're going to see a lot less Biden fumbling, You're

1803
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 2: going to see a lot less emphasis on some of

1804
01:28:43,080 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 2: the things that we talk about.

1805
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 4: And is going to be is not a problem for

1806
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:47,599
Speaker 4: older voters.

1807
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 8: Don't care.

1808
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 2: They own their own houses, you know, And to the

1809
01:28:50,040 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 2: extent that they're in debt or whatever they're on social security,

1810
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:53,040
Speaker 2: like they don't care.

1811
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 4: That's true too. From the economy is their.

1812
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:56,120
Speaker 3: Economy is good.

1813
01:28:56,240 --> 01:28:59,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those where because of the parallel

1814
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,920
Speaker 2: universe that they like, they're not feeling the same pressures

1815
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:02,840
Speaker 2: that we are.

1816
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 3: And then you add media on top of that, I

1817
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 3: could believe it. Why he is doing better with older folks.

1818
01:29:07,160 --> 01:29:11,960
Speaker 3: Very interesting, Chrystal, what are you taking a look at well.

1819
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: Israelan's defenders swear that the IDF has followed the rules

1820
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 1: of war in their assault on Gaza, that they aren't

1821
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 1: at war with civilians but laser focused on hamas, that

1822
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:24,719
Speaker 1: any civilian deaths are the fault of Hamas for operating

1823
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 1: within the civilian population or at the very worst, regrettable mistakes,

1824
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 1: such as in the case of the seven World Central

1825
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,320
Speaker 1: Aid kitchen workers who were killed in that series of

1826
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:37,520
Speaker 1: three drone strikes. The IDF, Israel's defenders say, is the most.

1827
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:38,719
Speaker 4: Moral army in the world.

1828
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:41,479
Speaker 1: A new shocking report from plus nine seven to two

1829
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:46,479
Speaker 1: magazine definitively disproves every single one of these claims. Of course,

1830
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 1: anyone paying attention was fully disabused of these notions long ago.

1831
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,240
Speaker 1: The ratio of civilian to militant debts alone is sufficient

1832
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,480
Speaker 1: to prove that this war on humanity has been intentional,

1833
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 1: but plus nine seven to two once again has provided

1834
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: invaluable in sight into the exact mechanisms of the horror.

1835
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 1: They reveal for the first time the details of how

1836
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: Israeli algorithmic targeting supercharged a slaughter and critically, how the

1837
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:13,600
Speaker 1: very human decisions made in this assault and desire for

1838
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 1: total revenge have fueled annihilation and genocide. Now I urge

1839
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:21,080
Speaker 1: you to read the entirety of Yvale Abraham's collaboration with

1840
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:24,000
Speaker 1: Local Call for nine to seventy two magazine titled Lavender,

1841
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:28,280
Speaker 1: The AI Machine directing Israel's bombing spree in Gaza. I'm

1842
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: going to summarize the most significant findings, but I believe

1843
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: this will be one of the defining journalistic pieces of

1844
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: this entire onslaught. Every detail of this report really matters,

1845
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: so please, if you have the time, take a look.

1846
01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 1: So here are some of the top line findings of

1847
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:45,679
Speaker 1: that report. First of all, Israel has developed an AI

1848
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: targeting system called Lavender, which has been used to generate

1849
01:30:48,600 --> 01:30:53,160
Speaker 1: some thirty seven thousand targets in Gaza. Second, those human

1850
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 1: targets generated by the algorithm were imprecise, with a known

1851
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:58,479
Speaker 1: error rate of about ten percent.

1852
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 4: In spite of this error rate.

1853
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 1: Next to note, human checking was performed before targeting individuals

1854
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:08,439
Speaker 1: on the lavender list for assassination idea, soldiers were to

1855
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:11,680
Speaker 1: consider these faulty AI target lists of alleged militants to

1856
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 1: be orders. Miners were included on the list along with

1857
01:31:16,160 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 1: civil service officers. Third, the IDF authorized extraordinary levels of

1858
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 1: collateral damage, officially twenty civilians per junior hamas fighter and

1859
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 1: one hundred civilians for higher level commanders. In practice, though

1860
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: collateral damage ratios could be even higher. The motive, according

1861
01:31:35,960 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 1: to the sources, was not to eliminate hamas it was

1862
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 1: pure and simple revenge. Fourth, contrary to claims about avoiding

1863
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:47,360
Speaker 1: civilian casualties, Israel intentionally targeted civilians through use of a

1864
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:50,679
Speaker 1: software program called ware Staty, which was used to target

1865
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,679
Speaker 1: the private homes of militants when they were at home

1866
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:57,320
Speaker 1: with their families and surrounded by other civilians. Little was

1867
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 1: done to make sure the alleged militant was even actually

1868
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:03,920
Speaker 1: killed and not just his family members. Now those are

1869
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: the top line findings, but it is well worth digging

1870
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: into the sum of the stomach turning details here. Gazza

1871
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 1: has become a testing ground for dystopian AI driven military tech,

1872
01:32:13,200 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 1: which is plunging all of us into a new era

1873
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 1: of horrors and unchecked barbarism. Nine seven to two had

1874
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 1: previously reported on an AI system called the Gospel, which

1875
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:26,080
Speaker 1: generates infrastructure targets with a focus on so called power targets.

1876
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:29,479
Speaker 1: These are large centers of civilian lifelike high rise apartment

1877
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:32,640
Speaker 1: buildings which were destroyed in order to demoralize and terrorize

1878
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:37,440
Speaker 1: the civilian population. Drone equipped robot dogs are also increasingly

1879
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 1: wandering throughout the rubble in Gaza thanks to new developments

1880
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 1: from the Pentagon and US military contractors. And we can

1881
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:47,120
Speaker 1: now add to this list of killer tech Lavender, which

1882
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:51,040
Speaker 1: generates tens of thousands of human targets and operating hand

1883
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: in glove with Lavender is Where's Daddy Software, which targets

1884
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 1: those placed on the Lavender kill list for assassination while

1885
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:00,080
Speaker 1: they are at their homes with their families. Where's Dad

1886
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:03,599
Speaker 1: get it for the IDF When Daddy's home, it means

1887
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 1: it's time to murder every man, woman, and child who

1888
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:09,439
Speaker 1: happens to be in the vicinity. Now, Lavender uses the

1889
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: data collected through mass surveillance of every Palestinian in Gaza

1890
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:17,599
Speaker 1: to analyze the likelihood that they may be Hamas based

1891
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 1: on a list of identified attributes. Every Gazan is given

1892
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 1: a rating of one to one hundred as to how

1893
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,600
Speaker 1: likely they are to be a militant. The algorithm is

1894
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: programmed with hundreds or thousands of attributes which are considered

1895
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:33,040
Speaker 1: to be suggestive of Hamas or other militant membership. Some

1896
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:35,599
Speaker 1: attributes identified in the piece include being in the wrong

1897
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: WhatsApp group or changing addresses too often. Now, if you

1898
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:42,720
Speaker 1: are clocked with too many incriminating features as identified by Lavender,

1899
01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:44,760
Speaker 1: then you'll be placed on a kill list and marked

1900
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 1: for IDF assassination with next to no human verification. According

1901
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 1: to a nine seven to two source quote, a human

1902
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: being had to verify the target for just a few seconds.

1903
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:57,800
Speaker 1: Be said, at first, we did checks to ensure that

1904
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:01,519
Speaker 1: the machine didn't get confused. Point we relied on the

1905
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,720
Speaker 1: automatic system, and we only checked that the target was

1906
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: a man.

1907
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 4: That was enough.

1908
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 1: Doesn't take a long time to tell if someone has

1909
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 1: a male or female voice. This assumption that all men

1910
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 1: are Hamas has been backed up in recent days by

1911
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:20,519
Speaker 1: the stunning reporting of Axios reporter Barack Revied, now himself

1912
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 1: a former IDF soldier. Revee told Anderson Cooper that on

1913
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 1: the ground, soldiers were simply told to murder every man.

1914
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 7: This incident shouldn't come as a surprise. You know, you

1915
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:33,840
Speaker 7: remember that just a few weeks ago, three Israeli hostages

1916
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 7: that managed to escape their captors were killed by Israeli

1917
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 7: soldiers who fired at them even though they were holding

1918
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 7: a white flag. Okay, and you know I spoke to

1919
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:49,639
Speaker 7: an Israeli reserve officer who was in the same unit

1920
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,760
Speaker 7: to those soldiers who shot those hostages, and remember him

1921
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 7: telling me that the orders are basically from the commanders

1922
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 7: on the ground is just shoot every man in fighting age.

1923
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,640
Speaker 7: Those are the orders. But that's not the rules of

1924
01:35:02,680 --> 01:35:05,880
Speaker 7: engagement that is coming from the idea of leadership on

1925
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 7: the ground.

1926
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 8: That's what they're being told.

1927
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:12,559
Speaker 1: The orders are shoot every man of fighting age. So obviously,

1928
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: if you're a man in Gaza, whether or not your

1929
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:16,640
Speaker 1: name is bat out by lavender can quickly become a

1930
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: matter of life and death. And yet the generation of

1931
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,719
Speaker 1: these kill lists was arbitrary based on entirely human judgments

1932
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,400
Speaker 1: about what rating level was sufficient to justify conclusion that

1933
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 1: you are very likely Hamas is a sixty five rating

1934
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:32,679
Speaker 1: out of one hundred, and Lavender's ai determination of Hamas

1935
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,840
Speaker 1: like attributes sufficient to mark you out specifically for death.

1936
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:39,360
Speaker 1: Does a seventy eight make you Hamas ninety two? The

1937
01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,799
Speaker 1: answer apparently differed at different times during the war Parade

1938
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 1: nine to seven to two source quote.

1939
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 4: The numbers changed all the.

1940
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:47,800
Speaker 1: Time because it depends on where you set the bar

1941
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,439
Speaker 1: of what a Hamas operative is. There were times when

1942
01:35:50,439 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: a Hamas operative was defined more broadly, and then the

1943
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:55,639
Speaker 1: machine started bringing us all kinds of civil defense personnel,

1944
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:57,760
Speaker 1: police officers on whom it would be a shame to

1945
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:00,719
Speaker 1: waste moms. They help the Hamas government, but they don't

1946
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:04,040
Speaker 1: really endanger soldiers. Now, of course, you have to appreciate

1947
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 1: the concern here for the rationing of bombs, not for

1948
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:08,719
Speaker 1: the human beings that are being killed.

1949
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 4: Let's put that aside.

1950
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 1: So once you've got your Lavender created kill list, you've

1951
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,080
Speaker 1: got to actually figure out how to get these guys.

1952
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 1: Finding Hamas in a battle space can be difficult and risky.

1953
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:20,559
Speaker 1: But what's quick and easy is killing them at their

1954
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 1: known residences when they go back home to their wife

1955
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:25,200
Speaker 1: and kids. Now, I want you to imagine for a

1956
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:28,040
Speaker 1: second that a foreign military or terrorist group was targeting

1957
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,240
Speaker 1: our soldiers en mass when they were at home in

1958
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:34,360
Speaker 1: their private residences, wantonly slaughtering mothers and children for the

1959
01:36:34,360 --> 01:36:37,519
Speaker 1: sake of taking out some anonymous army private This is

1960
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:40,120
Speaker 1: the equivalent of what the IDF is doing in Gaza

1961
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,080
Speaker 1: per nine seven two sources quote. We are not interested

1962
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 1: in killing hamas operatives only when they were in a

1963
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:48,200
Speaker 1: military building or engaged in military activity. On the contrary,

1964
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:51,200
Speaker 1: the idea of bombed them in homes without hesitation as

1965
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,519
Speaker 1: a first option. It's much easier to bab a family's home.

1966
01:36:54,600 --> 01:36:58,400
Speaker 1: The system is built to look for them in these situations. Now,

1967
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:01,640
Speaker 1: contrast this to the Lafe language we hear about how

1968
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 1: the IDF does not target civilians, just hamas with those

1969
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:09,639
Speaker 1: darn human shields. Here we have confirmation that the IDF

1970
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: does in fact target civilians by choosing as their first

1971
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:16,800
Speaker 1: resort to bomb private homes full of women and children.

1972
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:20,320
Speaker 1: It didn't even particularly matter whether the alleged lavender killless

1973
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:22,840
Speaker 1: militant was there at the time, because the IDF didn't

1974
01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:24,360
Speaker 1: verify that the target.

1975
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:25,799
Speaker 4: Was home when the bomb dropped.

1976
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,840
Speaker 1: In plenty of instances, the target had actually left and

1977
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:31,759
Speaker 1: the IDEF just murdered the family for no apparent reason.

1978
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 1: Because of this where's Daddy strategy, entire families have been

1979
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:38,719
Speaker 1: routinely annihilated. Every name on every branch of the family

1980
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:42,680
Speaker 1: tree killed. This embrace of civilian slaughter was not haphazard,

1981
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 1: it was systematized. In Gaza, the IDF authorized acceptable collateral

1982
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:50,840
Speaker 1: damage levels that were historically extraordinary. Any old, low level

1983
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:54,840
Speaker 1: Hamas rank and filer could be killed along with twenty civilians.

1984
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,479
Speaker 1: In practice, it could be even higher because the IDF

1985
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 1: used rule of thumb guess work to determine how many

1986
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 1: people might be killed, and because they preferred to use

1987
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: so called dumb bombs to take out these low level

1988
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: possible soldiers. The IDF did not want to waste expensive

1989
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:14,680
Speaker 1: precision guided munitions on inconsequential Hamas piance. Dumb bombs may

1990
01:38:14,680 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 1: take out a few houses instead of one, or collapse

1991
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 1: an entire apartment building instead of having the capability to

1992
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 1: just target a single floor. As one source told nine

1993
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,360
Speaker 1: seven to two quote. In practice, the principle of proportionality

1994
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,080
Speaker 1: did not exist when it came to senior commanders. Official

1995
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:32,680
Speaker 1: guidelines allowed for one hundred civilians to be killed in

1996
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,840
Speaker 1: connection with their assassination, but here too, the reality was

1997
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 1: that even higher civilian massacres were accepted per nine seven

1998
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 1: to two in order to assassinate aim and no fall.

1999
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:46,200
Speaker 1: The commander of Hamas's Central Gaza Brigade, a source said

2000
01:38:46,240 --> 01:38:51,480
Speaker 1: the army authorized the killing of approximately three hundred civilians,

2001
01:38:51,479 --> 01:38:55,240
Speaker 1: destroying several buildings and airstrikes on Albarete refugee camp on

2002
01:38:55,280 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: October seventeenth, based on an imprecise pinpointing of Nafal between

2003
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean sixteen to eighteen houses were wiped out in

2004
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,519
Speaker 1: the attack. Amra Al Kaseb, a resident of the camp,

2005
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:08,080
Speaker 1: told nine seventy two in local call, we couldn't tell

2006
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:10,240
Speaker 1: one apartment from the other. They all got mixed up

2007
01:39:10,240 --> 01:39:13,200
Speaker 1: in the rubble and we found human body parts everywhere.

2008
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 1: So for comparison here, the US during the War on

2009
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 1: Terror typically operated at a non combatant casualty value or NCV,

2010
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,679
Speaker 1: the official term for acceptable collateral damage of zero, even

2011
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:24,960
Speaker 1: when targeting Osama.

2012
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:30,240
Speaker 4: Bin Lan himself. The NCV was thirty. In actual execution.

2013
01:39:29,960 --> 01:39:32,759
Speaker 1: Of the bin Lan raid, Seal Team six killed three

2014
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 1: bin Laden sons and one woman. Now, I am not

2015
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:38,479
Speaker 1: arguing in the US was a paragon of virtuous warfighting

2016
01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:41,200
Speaker 1: and avoided civilian casualties in the War on Terror. But

2017
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:45,639
Speaker 1: there is no comparison between Israel routinely dropping two thousand

2018
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: pounds bunker buster bombs on crowded refugee camps to maybe

2019
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,639
Speaker 1: take out a single person and the high risk operation

2020
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: which we used to kill Osama bin Laden. So let's

2021
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:01,080
Speaker 1: put the pieces together here. If you classify every military

2022
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 1: age man as a combatant, and you classify every one

2023
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:08,200
Speaker 1: of his family members as acceptable collateral damage, you have

2024
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: effectively turned an entire population into legitimate military targets. The

2025
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: tech is scary, but the humans making those decisions driving

2026
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:20,360
Speaker 1: the tech, they are terrifying. You can see the same

2027
01:40:20,400 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: logic and the official idea of explanation for why they

2028
01:40:22,920 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 1: targeted the World Central Kitchen AID convoy. Just as with Lavender,

2029
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:30,960
Speaker 1: all it took was the possible presence of one fighting

2030
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:34,200
Speaker 1: age male with a gun for every one of those

2031
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,719
Speaker 1: AID workers to be marked for assassination. There's a reason

2032
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 1: for this, though multiple sources made it clear to nine

2033
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:42,360
Speaker 1: seven to two that in plenty of instances the real goal

2034
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:46,160
Speaker 1: was not hunting some hamas commander or another was revenge.

2035
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,160
Speaker 1: Per nine seven to two quote, there was a completely

2036
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 1: permissive policy regarding the casualties of bombing operations, so permissive that,

2037
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 1: in my opinion, it had an element of revenge. D

2038
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:01,720
Speaker 1: An intelligence source claimed also use the word revenge to

2039
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:05,000
Speaker 1: describe the atmosphere inside the army after October seventh, quote,

2040
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:07,760
Speaker 1: no one thought about what to do afterward when the

2041
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 1: war is over, or how it will be possible to

2042
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:12,360
Speaker 1: live in Gaza and what they will do with it.

2043
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 1: A said, we were told now we have to f Uphamas,

2044
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 1: no matter what the cost. Whatever you can you bomb,

2045
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:24,439
Speaker 1: whatever you can you bomb. There's no turning back from

2046
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:27,320
Speaker 1: these things, from the AI generated kill list based on

2047
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:30,559
Speaker 1: mass surveillance to the normalization of murdering whole families to

2048
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:34,479
Speaker 1: possibly get one rank and file soldier to revenge fuel

2049
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 1: destruction of every possible piece of civilian infrastructure. Israel's actions

2050
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:44,560
Speaker 1: in Gaza have opened Pandora's box for new, previously unimaginable horrors,

2051
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:50,040
Speaker 1: unchecked brutality, with unleashed and unaccountable tech Sagar.

2052
01:41:50,120 --> 01:41:51,680
Speaker 4: The details here are really extreme.

2053
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue,

2054
01:41:54,240 --> 01:41:57,800
Speaker 2: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com. Thanks

2055
01:41:57,920 --> 01:42:00,639
Speaker 2: everybody for watching, We appreciate it. Well, Gratio everybody tomorrow

2056
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 2: and we'll see that

2057
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:10,880
Speaker 16: Mhm.