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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My

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Speaker 1: guest is Paul Lee, CEO of production company Whip. Lee

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Speaker 1: is among the more successful of the high level Network

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Speaker 1: at Studio alums who have moved into production ventures after

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Speaker 1: their corporate tenures ended in recent years. Lee rose over

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Speaker 1: twelve years at Disney to become president of ABC Family

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Speaker 1: and then head of ABC Entertainment and its studio. Lee

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Speaker 1: has kept a low profile since he launched Whip in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. The company has evolved into a collection of

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Speaker 1: producers and writers doing high pedigree boutique projects. The roster

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Speaker 1: reflects the class and mass style that he established at

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Speaker 1: ABC's with hits such as Scandal, How to Get Away

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Speaker 1: with Murder, Blackish, and Fresh off the Boat. In its

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Speaker 1: short life, Whipp has scored with HBO's Mayor of Eastown,

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Speaker 1: Amazon Prime Videos, The Summer I Turn Pretty, Apple TV

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Speaker 1: Plus's Dickinson, FX's Pistol, HBO's White House Plumbers with More

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Speaker 1: to come. The company really reflects the shifting sands for

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Speaker 1: TV in its roots and its present ownership. It was

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Speaker 1: incubated at CAA and now its majority owned by the

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Speaker 1: South Korean conglomerate JTBC Studios. Lee knows how to think

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Speaker 1: about scaling shows and concepts from his time climbing the

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Speaker 1: ranks at Disney. He also knows startups. The native brit

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Speaker 1: came to the US through the launch of the BBC

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Speaker 1: America cable channel in the late nineteen nineties, and in

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Speaker 1: his earliest days, Lee did production of all kinds for

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Speaker 1: the BBC, in news, factual and documentary. So now he's

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Speaker 1: bringing that all together in a company that comes by

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Speaker 1: its global perspective. Honestly, Lee is proud to tell me

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Speaker 1: on the day of this interview that the company's BBC

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Speaker 1: two hit, Toast of Tinseltown from writer Matt Berry, has

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Speaker 1: just won Switzerland's Rose Dere Prize for Comedy. In our conversation,

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Speaker 1: Lee describes how he's drawing on his varied experience to

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Speaker 1: build Whip into a going concern that has real library

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Speaker 1: value for its owners, and after writing the Streaming Wave

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Speaker 1: for the past few years, he has good insights into

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Speaker 1: the pressure points in the system that have exploded into

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Speaker 1: the writer strike. That's all coming up after the break,

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Speaker 1: and we're back with a deep dive into selling TV

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Speaker 1: shows with Paul Lee, CEO of Whip. Paullye, CEO of Whip,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for inviting me over to your

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Speaker 1: beautiful offices here off Since at Boulevard and Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for coming along. We're excited to have

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Speaker 2: you here.

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Speaker 1: After your tenure at ABC was over. What was it

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Speaker 1: about the opportunity to build what has become Whip? What

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Speaker 1: was it that appealed to you? Because I know you

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Speaker 1: had more, You had many routes that you could have gone.

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Speaker 1: Why did you go with Whip?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to underestimate how exhilarating it was to

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Speaker 2: be out of corporate life. I have to say. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I had done a startup. BBC America was of course

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Speaker 2: a startup with it right right, backed by Discovery and

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Speaker 2: by the BBC, and I'd love doing it. In my twenties,

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Speaker 2: I was a producer director, which is obviously by definition

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Speaker 2: extremely entrepreneurial. But we had had a great run at Disney.

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Speaker 2: Super proud of the things that we did at ABC,

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Speaker 2: Family and A. ABC had a great team around, but

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Speaker 2: it was time and I relished the freedom and the

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Speaker 2: anonymity this new revolution was starting. This revolution, she pointed out,

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Speaker 2: I've being around long enough to see a number of

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Speaker 2: them was clearly more disruptive, more different in many ways,

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Speaker 2: more creative, and definitely more global than the broadcast revolutions

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Speaker 2: or beyond them, the cable and then the digital cable

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Speaker 2: revolution that we that we brought BBC America in on.

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Speaker 2: So it felt like this was a great position to

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Speaker 2: be outside of the big corporate structures, in this nice,

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Speaker 2: big area office, but still playing in a world where

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Speaker 2: all the rules were going to change.

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Speaker 1: Was there something about CIA at that moment? Were they

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Speaker 1: in a particular were they in an entrepreneurial mode? Were

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Speaker 1: they trying to see that was there something that that

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Speaker 1: specific that brought you to CA or was that just

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Speaker 1: the the offer that spoke to you?

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Speaker 2: Well? What I loved about their approach, and I was

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Speaker 2: already obviously close to Richard and Brian and Kevin, was

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Speaker 2: it they wanted to make something that was extraordinary. They

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Speaker 2: wanted to make shows that they and all their talent

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Speaker 2: could be proud of, and they wanted to create something

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Speaker 2: which I think very relevant to the world we're in now.

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Speaker 2: That was, above all else, a champion for talent, for writers,

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Speaker 2: for directors, for actors, a place where we could find

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Speaker 2: their passions, we could invest in them, we could give

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Speaker 2: them the freedom to do what they wanted, We could

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Speaker 2: sell anywhere we wanted to sell anywhere they wanted to sell,

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Speaker 2: and then protect them as we went into production. And

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Speaker 2: for me, that's what had driven our successes at ABC

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Speaker 2: Family and ABC the notion and of course I in

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Speaker 2: my twenties was a writer and a director and a producer.

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Speaker 2: So that notion of creating brand defining shows for the

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Speaker 2: new platforms, that's something I shared very much with Brian

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Speaker 2: and Richard and Kevin, and we had a lot of

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Speaker 2: fun doing it together.

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Speaker 1: Did you going into it coming from Disney, which is

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Speaker 1: mastered the idea of the flywheel and the franchise building,

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Speaker 1: did you? I mean, you must have gone in eyes

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Speaker 1: open that you were going into a world of selling

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Speaker 1: shows where the buyers want everything to be siloed and

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Speaker 1: they want every stitch of rights as you walk in

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Speaker 1: the door. How did you navigate that?

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Speaker 2: Well? Listen, I, as you pointed out, have been on

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Speaker 2: platforms for long enough to know certain obvious rhythms. One

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Speaker 2: of them is that, certainly during downtimes, and different platforms

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Speaker 2: do this at different times, the strap planners will always

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Speaker 2: come in and they'll always say three things. They've certainly

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Speaker 2: said it to me a few times over the decades.

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Speaker 2: First of all, why don't you just make the heads. Secondly,

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Speaker 2: we need to cut budgets, and thirdly we need to

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Speaker 2: buy entirely from our own teams. Right. But when you

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Speaker 2: do that, what happens over time, and I've watched this

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Speaker 2: again and again in the game, is the platform lms

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Speaker 2: can be successful in the short term, but in the

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Speaker 2: long term they stagnate, and that the best solution for

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Speaker 2: any platform, be it the old broadcast to that platforms

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Speaker 2: or the new streaming platforms, is have a mixed economy.

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Speaker 2: And by that I mean we would never have got

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Speaker 2: to Blackish if we hadn't had modern family that had

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Speaker 2: come out of twentieth brought in an audience, brought in

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Speaker 2: a creativity. What happens if you just buy from your

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Speaker 2: own world garden is that the ideas start to stagnate

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Speaker 2: and you're always limited to the briefs and to the

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Speaker 2: people and to the tastes of a limited group of people.

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Speaker 2: And I've watched this happen again and again again. When

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Speaker 2: the BBC brought in twenty five percent of independence, this

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Speaker 2: was back in the eighties. There was a huge wave

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Speaker 2: of creativity that came off the back of that that

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Speaker 2: helped BBC's proprietary studio. Right. You could argue the finn

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Speaker 2: Syn rules did the same thing. You could argue that,

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Speaker 2: you know, the independent movies of the sixties did the same.

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Speaker 2: They cross pollinate and they bring things in. So what

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Speaker 2: we knew was, particularly since there are many many buyers,

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Speaker 2: that at any given moment, a number of those buyers

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Speaker 2: would be looking to see great ideas coming in from

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Speaker 2: the outside, and that if what we did is create

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Speaker 2: terrific scripts, terrific projects, terrific ideas, and brought in the

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Speaker 2: best talent, then we could always enrich. We would never

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Speaker 2: be the number one favorite studio of a given streamer,

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Speaker 2: but we could pitch to be the number two or

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Speaker 2: three favorite studios and that's a great position to be.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to get some sense on the strategy of that,

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Speaker 1: like how you package and how you go out to pitch.

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Speaker 2: Well, we always drive it from our own passion. You know,

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Speaker 2: I believe that if you sit down and try to

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Speaker 2: figure out exactly what all the buyers want, you're going

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Speaker 2: to be late to the party because what you're always

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Speaker 2: doing is figuring out what they wanted when you started

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Speaker 2: putting that together, right, And you know, I don't do

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Speaker 2: that jobs. It's an extremely hard job. I did do it,

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Speaker 2: and I don't pretend to tell them how to do it,

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Speaker 2: because they have all sorts of pressures and all sorts

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Speaker 2: of information that others outside don't have. But I think

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Speaker 2: that when a script catches you in your gut, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to what are the what are the briefs that

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Speaker 2: have been decided corporately that might be wanted if you're

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Speaker 2: a buyer, if something really touches you in your gut,

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Speaker 2: it resonates, and it feels relevant and emotionally resonant, you

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Speaker 2: should buy that show because the world will change so

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Speaker 2: dramatically from now to when you pick it up, and

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Speaker 2: fo when you pick it up to when it goes out,

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Speaker 2: when it goes out seasons two and three, and often

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Speaker 2: the things that resonate most and not the things we're

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Speaker 2: thinking about at the moment. Not everybody was talking about

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Speaker 2: AI two years ago, right, So I think the key

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Speaker 2: is an emotional connection with a subject, not necessarily the

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Speaker 2: idea or the genre or even the package. That's the

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Speaker 2: first one. The second key is to make sure that

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Speaker 2: the writer and director are extraordinary and are bringing their

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Speaker 2: a game and are bringing their passion to that project.

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Speaker 2: So you got to look at me in the eye

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Speaker 2: and say, is this the one you really want to do?

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Speaker 2: And if it is, you have a chance of ahead.

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Speaker 1: Do you find that people when you, especially in this role,

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Speaker 1: being a newer company on the scene and people knowing

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Speaker 1: that you're not you know, you're not going into a

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Speaker 1: big studio with a lot of do you find that

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Speaker 1: people are very focused on single ideas or do you

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Speaker 1: do people come in and you talk through a bunch

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Speaker 1: of ideas and come to it together and to come

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Speaker 1: to like, hey, let's really focus on this one thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm just curious how in terms of the writers who

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Speaker 2: come to us with.

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Speaker 1: The directors and that very that very earliest gestation of somebody

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Speaker 1: comes in to pitch you, do they Do you find

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Speaker 1: that people really pitch you specific things or do they

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Speaker 1: come in and say, I'm interested in these worlds I.

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Speaker 2: Think it's a combination. The reality, though, is that when

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Speaker 2: I was at a big corporate structure, the job was

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Speaker 2: to create a network and a brand that flowed from

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Speaker 2: your particular brief and taste buds and passions and what

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Speaker 2: your audience wanted. We are selling to nine, as you say,

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Speaker 2: maybe twenty different buyers, certainly around the world many more,

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Speaker 2: and so we've structured the company accordingly. We have a

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Speaker 2: number of creatives, four or five creatives that we believe

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Speaker 2: are extremely good at their job, and we trust them

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Speaker 2: to run their own businesses, to be in business with

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Speaker 2: the people that they want to be, to invest in

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Speaker 2: the shows that they believe in. We give them information,

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Speaker 2: we give them support, We give them business affairs support,

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Speaker 2: production support. But what that allows us to do is

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Speaker 2: very much the structure of Newline back in the nineties

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Speaker 2: and two thousands. It allows us to have all sorts

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Speaker 2: of different taste buds, and they have different ways of

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Speaker 2: approaching a different talent that they are in business with

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Speaker 2: and that they are close to. But the direct answer

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Speaker 2: to your question is both people will come in with

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Speaker 2: a slew of ideas and will want direction as to

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Speaker 2: where to go, and others will be like, this is

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Speaker 2: what I want to do. I'm going to make this,

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Speaker 2: this is what I've do.

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Speaker 1: You is it like something that you sense, is it

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Speaker 1: a gut thing or does it really that you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this person has passion for this or does it like

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Speaker 1: you really have to see it.

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Speaker 2: On the page? Well, I think, but you can tell

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Speaker 2: someone's passion when they walk in the door. And it

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Speaker 2: is not true of everybody who runs who is a buyer.

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Speaker 2: But we were figuring out the other day. I never

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Speaker 2: had a hit that I wasn't passionate about. There are

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Speaker 2: some buyers who would rather geniusly would only have hits

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Speaker 2: that they hated, and they were unnamed, but you can

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Speaker 2: probably guess who they were. But from my personal experience,

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Speaker 2: if you love a project and if somebody walks in

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Speaker 2: the room with a real twinkle in their eyes, you've

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Speaker 2: got a chance there something special.

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Speaker 1: Don't pick up another script. Hang tight and we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back with more from Paul Lee, CEO of WIP.

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Speaker 1: And we're back with more insights on selling TV shows

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Speaker 1: from Paul Lee CEO of WIP. In this environment, how

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Speaker 1: do you turn the passion, the quality, the amazing partners?

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Speaker 1: How do you turn that into a business.

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Speaker 2: Well, what defines and what will always define these streamers

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Speaker 2: is individual great shows. Right, this is how this industry

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Speaker 2: has worked for seventy maybe one hundred years. And there's

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Speaker 2: going to be an unholy fight between the streamers. So

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Speaker 2: who will succeed and who will fight. We're in the

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Speaker 2: middle of that fight and it will take as long

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Speaker 2: as it takes, maybe three to five years. The best ammunition,

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Speaker 2: the best tool any platform can have in that flight

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Speaker 2: in that fight is individual and brilliant shows. If you

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Speaker 2: have you Mayor of East Town in your arsenal, or

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Speaker 2: if you have Succession in your arsenal, if you have Summaright,

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Speaker 2: I'm Pretty in your arsenal, or Diplomat in your arsenal,

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Speaker 2: that is going to drive subscribers, it's going to drive audiences,

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Speaker 2: it's going to drive growth, and it's going to drive profits.

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Speaker 2: So the best business model for us is to have

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Speaker 2: the shows that people watch, and the audiences can smell

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Speaker 2: the shows that are cynical, they can smell the shows

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Speaker 2: that are trying to give them lessons, and then they

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Speaker 2: can smell the storytelling that resonates, that is original and brilliant,

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Speaker 2: and those are the ones that define these platforms and

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Speaker 2: always have.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask you drill down a little bit on

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Speaker 1: the business sense, not the dollars and cents, but just

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Speaker 1: on the business sense. Are you able to structure deals

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Speaker 1: with a Netflix or an Apple TV Plus or an

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Speaker 1: Amazon places where you've done business. Are you able to

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Speaker 1: structure deals where you ultimately own the copyrights you can

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Speaker 1: contain the license term. I mean, there's definitely, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's definitely, especially at this moment in the creative community,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion and sort of dissection of

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Speaker 1: how the business is changing. And I think it's we're

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Speaker 1: in this moment and there is obviously a writer strike.

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Speaker 1: There's probably pickets not too far down the road here

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Speaker 1: from where we sit at Netflix, but there's a sense

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Speaker 1: of like, I think what happened is streaming was new

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Speaker 1: and everybody was excited, and of course it injected a

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Speaker 1: ton of money and energy and no rules. But I

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Speaker 1: think what happened is sometime after the pandemic started to ease,

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Speaker 1: people looked around and go, wait, this is the norm

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Speaker 1: and the old rules of the exception. Can you make

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Speaker 1: the economics work and make making content a profitable business

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Speaker 1: for whip.

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Speaker 2: The answer is yes, if we have a show that

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Speaker 2: is competitive, then obviously we're going to end up with

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Speaker 2: a better deal. We have plenty of shows that we've

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Speaker 2: done that we do have copy right on. And the

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Speaker 2: answer is also that I believe it will also get

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Speaker 2: stronger because you're already starting to see outside of the strike,

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Speaker 2: you're starting to see a much more complex environment, an

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Speaker 2: environment where the buyer, where the buyers will buy just

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Speaker 2: for one market or two markets, There'll be more and

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Speaker 2: more complex windows. Beyond that. There already are a number

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Speaker 2: of broadcasters around the world, and a number of our

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Speaker 2: shows are now becoming available to sell to those broadcasters.

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Speaker 2: I think we're going to be in a world that

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Speaker 2: is not nearly as uniform and will allow us and

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Speaker 2: others to be able to take the copyrights that we

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Speaker 2: have and make sure that we build value over that

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Speaker 2: for ourselves and for the talent that's there. The other

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Speaker 2: thing that I would say that is related to the

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Speaker 2: strike is that I think this is the moment in

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Speaker 2: answer to your question about Okay, let's sit down and

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Speaker 2: look at the future, to take stock about what the

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Speaker 2: streaming world looks, and like to do so in a

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Speaker 2: way that we can be in relations to our streaming

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Speaker 2: partners and our talent that can sustain and pay. But

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Speaker 2: I think the most important thing is that streamers and

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Speaker 2: talent and studios sit down and figure out a mechanism

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Speaker 2: whereby we can share in the success that we all

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Speaker 2: build together. That's how Hollywood has been so strong for

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Speaker 2: the last seventy years. And if we could do that

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Speaker 2: in a way that all parties will benefit, then it

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Speaker 2: will bring a huge amount of storytelling strength for the

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Speaker 2: next few decades to come. One thing, though, has changed

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Speaker 2: and will will not go back, And I think it's

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Speaker 2: a great thing. But I speak as a bread which

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Speaker 2: is storytelling has now become global.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that is definitely.

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Speaker 2: I remember the time when we were trying to do

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Speaker 2: a follow up to Downton Abbey on ABC. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: a very real thought, but there wasn't a person in

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Speaker 2: the world thought that could work. Right, Downton Abbey one

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Speaker 2: of the more watchable ABC like ABC Brandon Church. You

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Speaker 2: could imagine. Now you can have a specific, brilliant, low

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Speaker 2: budget hit out of Israel or Columbia, or a big

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Speaker 2: budget hit out of London, right or so that are

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Speaker 2: being watched by the whole world. So I think that

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Speaker 2: isn't going to change. In fact, I would suggest that's

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Speaker 2: probably going to move. I suggest that's probably going to

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Speaker 2: grow stronger as we go forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that has been the I didn't appreciate in twenty

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Speaker 1: sixteen when Netflix flipped the switch at CEES, when they

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Speaker 1: flipped the switch on all those countries, it took me

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Speaker 1: a while to appreciate the significance of just blowing through

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Speaker 1: those borders that the business had really been. It seems

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Speaker 1: quaint now all these low these many few years later,

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Speaker 1: but it does like the business was so geographically specific.

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Speaker 1: As the streaming and the on demand business has grown

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Speaker 1: appetite for much shorter episode orders. That is that evoked

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Speaker 1: to you the more the British system, and that was

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Speaker 1: that something that you kind of recognized as, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is a model I can work with.

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Speaker 2: I think absolutely. I mean the British system was always

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Speaker 2: limited series seasons, sometimes one two, but probably not more

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Speaker 2: than that. Usually the director was the lead on a

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Speaker 2: given shoot.

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Speaker 1: That's been such a huge sea change as well.

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Speaker 2: But great writers in England, you know, during my professional

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Speaker 2: life and in America now, and this will always be

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Speaker 2: the case. A what drive the original voice, and unless

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Speaker 2: you have Troy Kennedy Martin, you're not gonna have Edge

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Speaker 2: of Darkness. However, great, my friend, the director is so

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Speaker 2: And even though the structure is different, and even though

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Speaker 2: the streamers are not looking for long running series, although

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Speaker 2: I will say The Crown has run a long time

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Speaker 2: and you may find that that particular model changes, that

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Speaker 2: series begin to drive the stream as businesses around the world,

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Speaker 2: it is still the case that the talent that creates

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Speaker 2: the show is driving tremendous profits, and we have to

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Speaker 2: figure out a mechanism that we could share.

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Speaker 1: That I imagine, I can't you know. Mayor was Mayor

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Speaker 1: of Eastown, which was such a big hit, went all

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Speaker 1: the way one Emmy's Kate Winslet Gene Smart. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just you could not have packed more and it

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Speaker 1: was it was also so it had the engine of

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Speaker 1: a mystery, but it was truly emotional and moving and touching.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like, oh, here's the killer in the closet.

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Speaker 1: It was a woman coming to grips with it. You know.

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Speaker 1: It was just really, I won't blow it for listeners,

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Speaker 1: but that last the closing moments of that scene of

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Speaker 1: that show. The closing moments of that series are had

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Speaker 1: really stayed with me, And of course I'm going to

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Speaker 1: ask you if there's a chance we'll see more Mayor,

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Speaker 1: But what was it like for you as a producer

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Speaker 1: to get to that height, like to you know, peak

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Speaker 1: Emmy's HBO. Everybody's talking about it. That must have been.

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Speaker 1: That must have been pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was terrific, And don't forget it was

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Speaker 2: kind of during lockdown. The person who gets the credit

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Speaker 2: for it is Mark Roibel on our team because he's

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Speaker 2: the one who who put it together and built it.

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Speaker 2: But it was. It was terrific and extremely exciting, and

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Speaker 2: it was such a credit to Brad Inglesby who wrote

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Speaker 2: this script and to Kate Winslett who performed it, that

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Speaker 2: she was able to, in your words, to transcend the

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Speaker 2: genre and to create something that really had emotional resonance

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Speaker 2: with all of us and was done on so many levels.

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Speaker 2: So we were immensely proud of it and super happy

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Speaker 2: to have it as a calling card for our future.

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Speaker 1: There was was I mean, obviously yourself and you know

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Speaker 1: your partners were significant, but there's probably nothing like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're the company that made mayor of Eastown to just

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Speaker 1: spur activity and get people interested.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean Dickinson had put us on the map

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Speaker 2: in terms of critical acclaim, but it was mayor of

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Speaker 2: Easttown in terms of global success. And we suddenly had talent, writers, directors,

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Speaker 2: actors around the world going all right, I could do

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Speaker 2: business with these guys. They know what they're doing. We

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Speaker 2: were very proud of it. I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 2: have failures for every hit that you do. I can't

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Speaker 2: remember any of the failures for my time at av

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Speaker 2: Crecy family. But when things come together and it's not

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Speaker 2: just that the writers and directors in the script, but

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Speaker 2: the time is right, the world wanted to watch that

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Speaker 2: show where it came out, and because we'd all been

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Speaker 2: through eighteen months of lockdown, and we put our feet

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Speaker 2: up and we put ourselves into the hands of Brad and.

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Speaker 1: Kate about the writers strike. Don't want to be labor it.

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Speaker 1: I know that it's a larger it's a larger topic.

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Speaker 1: But how for you, you know, still in your whip's

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Speaker 1: young life, has this been has this kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: shuddering of activity? Is this is this a struggle for

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Speaker 1: you in terms of financially with shows shutting down, how

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Speaker 1: are you how are you navigating this strike?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're very lucky to have great owners JTBC and

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Speaker 2: in South Korea are our owners along with that ORTN

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Speaker 2: and C or a lesser extent, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: we feel very blessed to have the support that we

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Speaker 2: have going through that. It is obviously frustrating and disruptive

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Speaker 2: for everybody. I mean, that's that's the purpose of a strike.

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Speaker 2: But I do hope, and I'll repeat this, I do

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Speaker 2: hope that we can figure out a way where both

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Speaker 2: both streamers and talent sit down together and figure out

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Speaker 2: a mechanism where whereby they can really share in the

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Speaker 2: success that they create together. And I think I feel

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Speaker 2: optimistic over time that it's it's a strategically right moment too,

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Speaker 2: as you say, figure out how we're all going to

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Speaker 2: work together in a streaming world.

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Speaker 1: Is it in the whip business model to would you

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Speaker 1: do a if NBC or CBS or ABC wanted you

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Speaker 1: to do a you know, a comedy that could potentially

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Speaker 1: be a twenty two episode a year, would that.

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Speaker 2: Work for you? We would absolutely do that. We would

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Speaker 2: actually do that. We're at the moment pitching I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure allowed to say what It is a reality format show,

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Speaker 2: and so we'd be into ABC and NBC, and we're

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Speaker 2: about to go to Fox. We're very excited about that show.

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Speaker 2: So no, absolutely, we'd be in business with the broadcasters.

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Speaker 2: They have different needs and different financial parameters. I think

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Speaker 2: many of the scripted limited series or short run series

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Speaker 2: that we do I'll probably get better suited to the streamers.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, we hope to get to pick up on

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Speaker 2: this reality show that we're out with at the moment.

435
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: Well, stay tuned on that is there obviously. You know,

436
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: we've just come through Q one earning season and every exit,

437
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: every CEO has been preaching the gospel of cost cutting

438
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: and cost containment. Are you fee any tightening in the marketplace?

439
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: There is no question that I think we all felt tightening,

440
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: probably around last summer, and it was sort of the

441
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: moment where the streaming revolution went from a land grab

442
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 2: to this land needs to be fertile, right, we need

443
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: to grow crops on this land well put. And so

444
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: we certainly saw that and we sold a lot of

445
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: stuff into development, but we saw a redirecting within many

446
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 2: of the major companies. What we're seeing now actually were

447
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: it not for the strike. Is many of those companies

448
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: now having slightly pivoted, figured out where they're going. We've

449
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: seen a lot of activity and momentum and a lot

450
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 2: of interest in the buyers. So we're optimistic that when

451
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 2: the strike ends that there'll be a fair amount of

452
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: optimism not just to fill the shelves which have different

453
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: shapes and different dynamics from the shelves of the broadcasters

454
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 2: of old, but they will not only need to fill

455
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: the shelves, but they will be ready to buy and

456
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: create global storytelling. And that's what we do for a living.

457
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: Of course, I know, you know, truly producing for global

458
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: audience is a focus. You've had a show that's gotten

459
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: a lot of attention in the UK and other markets,

460
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: The Toast of Tinseltown.

461
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are super proud of that show. This is

462
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 2: done by David Flynn, who looks after our international stuff.

463
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: We did in conjunction with the BBC. It has Matt Berry.

464
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: I'm proud to say we just won the Rose Door

465
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: for it.

466
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: Congratulation, Thank you so much.

467
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: And I think it's a measure of how independent studios

468
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: like ours can take advantage of the fluid environment. Around

469
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: the world to put together partners and create shows with

470
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: local broadcast partners that we can then go on to

471
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: sell to streamers and beyond. And it's a sign of

472
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 2: how much the storytelling in the future is going to

473
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: be global and our ability to monetize that storytelling is

474
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: going to get more and more complex, hopefully more and

475
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 2: more interesting.

476
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: Wow, and I'm sure that I'm sure it's available on

477
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: streamers here is it of you?

478
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it will be.

479
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: Let me close my asking you this. You've mentioned a

480
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: couple of times obviously that you came up the ranks

481
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: in the BBC as a producer and as a writer

482
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: and a producer. What what do you think in your

483
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: early your early career, whether it be in your producing

484
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 1: days or maybe other things. What what are some of

485
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: the experiences that you had early on that have really

486
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: prepared you for this moment that you're in for leading

487
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: your own, your own content company.

488
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 2: Well, one of the exciting things about what we're doing

489
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: at the moment is we're in uncharted territory. It is

490
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 2: so emotionally and intellectually exciting. It's a very strange thing

491
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: to say during a strike, but it is so exciting

492
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: to be here. This is like being you know, in

493
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: motion pictures in the twenties, or in broadcasters you know

494
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: in the fifties and sixties. It is an extremely challenging

495
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 2: and exciting moment to be there and to be able

496
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: to create storytelling that can be washed around the world,

497
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: and to be at a moment where the best storytelling

498
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: is the one that rises to the top, and that

499
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: the audiences, who always can smell cynicism and genius in

500
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: different measure, will gravitate, gravitate towards the genius. So we're

501
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: in an uncharted territory, and the uncharted nature of it

502
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: is why we're having such fun. You know, we're able

503
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: in a small company to sit down here, recruit the

504
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: people that we love working with, work with the writers

505
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: that we think are super talented in the directors, and

506
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 2: not have to worry about the needs of the wider corporation.

507
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: So all that is glorious. What I will say very

508
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: specifically is in my twenties I was a producer, director,

509
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: writer for BBC two and made a number of arts documentaries,

510
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: a couple of scripted feature and a scripted hour. And

511
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: so as we go through building this company, and I

512
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: have done this throughout my career as an executive, and

513
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: I do it now on this on this company, I

514
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: always sit in the seat of the director and the

515
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: writer as we go into something. That's why we can't

516
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 2: turn off. You can't turn that off. You know what's

517
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: driving them. You know when they feel insecure because you

518
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: felt insecure, and you know when they know what they're

519
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: doing is going to be great. And our job is

520
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: just about that is That was our job at ABC,

521
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: and that's our job here.

522
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: Well. I think you just explained a big part of

523
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: why Whip has been so successful. Paul. Thank you so

524
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 1: much for your time, Thank you so much for having us,

525
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

526
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,960
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527
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,480
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