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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports where in the situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, pandemic here

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Speaker 1: has really accelerated the investments that you've been advocating for

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Speaker 1: for years. From a Macros standpoint, I think our sport

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Speaker 1: industry is really forced to look at the business a

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Speaker 1: little bit differently. In depth conversations with the leaders in

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Speaker 1: the sports industry. Who wants to be the sacrificial lambs

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Speaker 1: that shows up at the first big major sporting event

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Speaker 1: were part of something much bigger than the sport right

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Speaker 1: now and the health and safety of our stakeholders that

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Speaker 1: looks much important every moment. I think we're all from

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Speaker 1: the business respective thinking about the impact that the virus

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Speaker 1: is having on across the country against Bloomberg Business of

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Speaker 1: Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm Jason Kelly and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michaelin and we're here Monday's, Wednesdays and Thursday's explaining the

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Speaker 1: big money issues in the world of sports. Talking to

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Speaker 1: some of the biggest players in the industry. Today, we're

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Speaker 1: speaking with the guy who is at the nexus of

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Speaker 1: all of it. If you have to think about the

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Speaker 1: business of sports, he's it. Bill Mulveihill. He's the managing

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Speaker 1: director and head of Sports and Entertainment Group at U

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Speaker 1: S Bank. He joins us from Cincinnati. Bill, how are you.

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Speaker 1: This is a kind of a crazy time in your business. Yeah, Jason, Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me, and I'm doing well. It has

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Speaker 1: certainly been an interesting few months. It's something that none

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Speaker 1: of us in this business has ever experienced. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it's been a fascinating time and and uh, certainly a

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Speaker 1: lot going on. So we want to talk about a

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Speaker 1: number of the transactions and sort of the transaction vibe

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Speaker 1: as it were, that's going on in the world of

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Speaker 1: sports right now. You guys are top of the league

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Speaker 1: tables in sports related deal volume, in terms of financing

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Speaker 1: new stadiums, in terms of UH teams getting bought and sold.

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Speaker 1: Let me start on the news. I know it's a

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Speaker 1: deal that you weren't involved in, but everybody's talking about

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Speaker 1: the Mets. What does it mean for the broader market

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Speaker 1: with Stevie coing coming in two point four two billion dollars? Wow,

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Speaker 1: I think I think that's exactly right. Wow. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: would say it's a great sign for the industry. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of talk about obviously a lot of

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Speaker 1: chatter that the Mets were for sale and what they

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Speaker 1: were actually going to sell for in these times, and

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Speaker 1: you heard numbers all over the place, and you heard

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Speaker 1: that there could be some kind of pandemic related discount,

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Speaker 1: and in the price tag, I think is UH is

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Speaker 1: very strong and robust, and just suggest to me that

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Speaker 1: even though we are in a time of obviously disruption

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Speaker 1: and where for baseball they're able to play games but

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Speaker 1: with no or limited fans. But but despite that that,

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Speaker 1: the long term value of these franchises is holding up.

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Speaker 1: And I just think it's a very encouraging sign for

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Speaker 1: the industry that even during these times, a price tag

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Speaker 1: like that can be can be had for for one

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Speaker 1: of the premier teams in Major League Baseball. Well, I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you about it these times private financing

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Speaker 1: versus public financing? Is is public financing a thing of

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Speaker 1: the past right now? In this this current world we're

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Speaker 1: living in, You know, I think it's I wouldn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: say it's a thing of the past, but it's certainly

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Speaker 1: more challenging than ever. And even before the the coronavirus, UH,

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Speaker 1: it was difficult and especially on the coast the New

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Speaker 1: York and the East Coast area, and then certainly California.

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Speaker 1: Just the politics behind securing public dollars was very challenging. Uh,

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Speaker 1: A lot of the budgets and in those places and

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Speaker 1: really all over the country are tight, and I think

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Speaker 1: the pandemic obviously even makes the the budgets of those

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Speaker 1: municipalities even tougher. So I would say it's not over,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's it. It'll certainly be challenging in

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Speaker 1: the near term, giving that all the all these states

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Speaker 1: and cities what they're facing from a cost perspective, cost

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Speaker 1: point of view, dealing with the coronavirus. To then go

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Speaker 1: out and approve new dollars for a sports stadium or arena,

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Speaker 1: I think will be hard. But nonetheless, I think in

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Speaker 1: the right case, where where it makes sense and it's

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Speaker 1: and leads to some economic development, I certainly will I

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Speaker 1: can see that happening. But but in the short term,

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Speaker 1: certainly it's going to be challenged. Well, when we think

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Speaker 1: about superlatives, Bill, we have to think about how our

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Speaker 1: mouths were all agape. I think when we saw the

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Speaker 1: opening game out in Los Angeles Sofi Stadium, I think

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Speaker 1: I like a lot of people, you know, flying in

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Speaker 1: and out of l A over the past few years.

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Speaker 1: You know, you sort of saw it, given its proximity

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Speaker 1: to the airport, especially saw the bones of it, and

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Speaker 1: it saw it all come together. Tell us about what

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Speaker 1: that means. You know, we talked about the Mets for baseball,

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Speaker 1: but this stadium, it's a deal that you guys worked on.

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Speaker 1: I believe, Like, what does it mean in the broader

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Speaker 1: picture in terms of what a stadium can be and

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Speaker 1: sort of how the whole deal gets put together. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I like you the same thing. I flew out

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Speaker 1: there so many times, and you when you're flying in

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Speaker 1: del A, actually you look over and you could see

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Speaker 1: it being built, and uh, it's certainly a fascinating project

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Speaker 1: and we did have the chance to u to work

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Speaker 1: on that. In my mind, it's it's sort of what

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Speaker 1: happened with Cowboys Stadium, Uh, that the Cowboy Stadium sort

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Speaker 1: of changed what we thought a football stadium could be

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Speaker 1: and it sort of became the new generation. And you

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Speaker 1: had others of like US Bank Stadium in Minnesota and others, uh,

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Speaker 1: follow that and become this sort of new gym of

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Speaker 1: the NFL. And I think so far is really going

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Speaker 1: to take it to the next level. Um, just the

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Speaker 1: way they're inner integrating the surrounding area of the entertainment district,

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Speaker 1: but just the stadium in itself. It's really sort of

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Speaker 1: a next Gin. And so I think, uh, I think

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Speaker 1: like Cowboys Stadium did for the NFL so far will

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Speaker 1: do where it will take these stadiums even to the

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Speaker 1: next level. And it's it's a really exciting time. And again,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about, the pandemic has kind of put

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Speaker 1: a pause on many things, and it's it's somewhat sad

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Speaker 1: to have to see the stadiums empty like that, but

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Speaker 1: but nonetheless, long term, I think this is really going

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Speaker 1: to be a milestone for the NFL and really for

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Speaker 1: sports stadiums and arenas in general. Along that same line,

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Speaker 1: the World Service is going to be held at another

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Speaker 1: one of your projects at Texas Rangers new Stadium. So

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Speaker 1: this is going to be quite a coming out fall

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Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, in normal times, I would have enjoyed

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Speaker 1: going to all these stadiums and seeing the games. And

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Speaker 1: uh I when I hear when I hear that they're

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Speaker 1: going to be playing the World Series in Texas, at

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Speaker 1: one hand, I'm super excited for them, and it's just

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Speaker 1: really neat. But then at the same time, it's again

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Speaker 1: it's kind of weird and somewhat sad that I won't

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Speaker 1: be able to tend not to make it about me,

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Speaker 1: but that others, you know, they probably won't be able

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Speaker 1: to have a full stadium, and and just it's just

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Speaker 1: such a unique time and sports to see these things.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that, uh, that's gonna be That's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a great way to at least showcase what they what

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Speaker 1: they were able to do down there in Arlington. So

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Speaker 1: sort of at this nexus, I guess, a different sort

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Speaker 1: of nexus of ownership and and stadium construction and municipalities,

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Speaker 1: which Lynchi was asking about a little bit earlier in

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Speaker 1: the conversation. I mean, I do wonder about this kind

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Speaker 1: of new generation of owners that we're seeing. It feels

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Speaker 1: like at least and certainly the NBA feels like we've

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Speaker 1: seen a lot of that, whether we're thinking about the Sixers,

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Speaker 1: whether we're thinking about the Bucks and many others. As

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Speaker 1: you look across that league. It's even starting to happen

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit in the NFL, Although the NFL

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Speaker 1: tends to be lagging in that regard. But does the

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Speaker 1: change in ownership and the style of ownership affect the

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Speaker 1: way teams are bought and the way stadiums are put together.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking to all the stakeholders involved. I

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Speaker 1: just wonder how we're evolving here. Yeah, yeah, great question.

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Speaker 1: And absolutely we see that that this evolution. I think

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Speaker 1: when I first started in the business, I think back

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Speaker 1: to it, and the business of sports was somewhat easy

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Speaker 1: or simple, maybe not easy to the wrong word, but

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Speaker 1: somewhat simple to understand. You you sold tickets, you you

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Speaker 1: sold some food out of stadium, you sold some merchandise,

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Speaker 1: and and you paid your players. And that's oversimplified and obviously,

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Speaker 1: but it was. It was a pretty simple business to

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Speaker 1: to understand. And that's really changed with new ownership. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that, but also the media aspect of the business,

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Speaker 1: the technology aspect of the business, and so in some

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Speaker 1: ways they become more of this. They feel like tech

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Speaker 1: companies or media companies or the combination of and the

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Speaker 1: way they run their business now are just very sophisticated.

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Speaker 1: And I think you've seen some people, like you've talked

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Speaker 1: about the and some some some individuals realize they're out

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Speaker 1: with the opportunities, and you've seen a lot of new

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Speaker 1: owners come in and shake things up from a business perspective,

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Speaker 1: and if you sit down with the team and you

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Speaker 1: hear how they think about selling tickets, from how they

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Speaker 1: market to people, how they price the ticket, how they

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Speaker 1: how they know that you might want a ticket, and

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Speaker 1: then we're also gonna gonna hit you up for Jersey

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Speaker 1: as well. Just the way they use technology and data

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Speaker 1: to drive revenue. It's just totally different business than ten

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Speaker 1: years ago. And I think that's going to continue to evolve,

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Speaker 1: and even the pandemic, I think of one positive that

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Speaker 1: will come out of it is I think teams are

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Speaker 1: having to get even more creative and push boundaries even

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Speaker 1: more about how they how they grow revenue. And so

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Speaker 1: when we come out of this and things normalize, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of the the techniques they used and

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Speaker 1: and and had to force themselves into will pay dividends

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Speaker 1: in future years. Bill going forward, UH on future projects.

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Speaker 1: I gotta think that you've got to take COVID nineteen

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Speaker 1: into consideration in terms of how do we set up concessions,

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Speaker 1: how do we set up access into the stadium, Texas

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Speaker 1: ticket entrances social distancing, and also more importantly, when no

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Speaker 1: one ever talks about exit strategy. You can space people

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Speaker 1: up coming into a game, but when the game's over,

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Speaker 1: you know eighty thou people are leaven At the same time,

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Speaker 1: those things that discussions are gonna come up in future plans. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: definitely you hit it, and we're already talking to our

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Speaker 1: clients about how they can maybe retrofit their stadium to

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Speaker 1: to be more to allow for social distancing, to allow

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Speaker 1: for better entry into the stadium exiting. But I would

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Speaker 1: say one challenge for teams is there's just still not

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Speaker 1: a right answer over what is the right way to

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Speaker 1: keep both people's social distance. And also we obviously don't

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Speaker 1: know how long is this gonna last. So I think

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Speaker 1: teams are really debating among themselves about or discussing among

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Speaker 1: themselves about what do we do, how do we retrofit

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Speaker 1: our stadium, how can we get people in as you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the exiting strategy as a real challenge UM, and

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Speaker 1: are you going to try to convince people to stay

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Speaker 1: in their seats? All those types of things UM. I

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Speaker 1: think is an ongoing dialogue with the teams in the

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Speaker 1: leagues of how to do a best, and I think

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting just to see is this a temporarything

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Speaker 1: or permanently are they changing stadiums to sort of allow

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Speaker 1: for these types of things, because uh, even if the

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Speaker 1: virus goes away, there's still people have a sort of

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Speaker 1: permanent change and how close they want to be to

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Speaker 1: other people. I guess it's still to be determined that

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Speaker 1: the long term implications of all this. Bill let's talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the different sports, but getting we sort

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Speaker 1: of alluded to this earlier with the the changes in

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Speaker 1: ownerships and things like that, but also from a value

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Speaker 1: perspective and from a platform perspective, maybe we start there.

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Speaker 1: We're starting to see more and more people say, well,

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Speaker 1: I've got a baseball team, or I've got a football team,

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Speaker 1: and maybe I want a soccer team as well. We

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Speaker 1: saw that in Atlanta with Arthur Blank. We've obviously seen

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Speaker 1: the ownership group of the Sixers expand to the Devils

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Speaker 1: and expand to Premiership. How do you see that evolving

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Speaker 1: in terms of people building. I guess I'll just say

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Speaker 1: it's sort of sports empires to to some extent, because

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Speaker 1: that's not sort of what we've traditionally seen. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think yeah, you nailed it. You know, historically it was

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Speaker 1: sort of the model was maybe the of some local

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Speaker 1: businessmen would buy the team and own it as sort

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Speaker 1: of the um an asset for the city and for

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Speaker 1: his family. But as we were talking about before, it's

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Speaker 1: become so much more sophisticated, and I think you're seeing

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Speaker 1: some of these owners realized, uh and learn how to

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Speaker 1: maximize the opportunity of owning a franchise, how to um

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Speaker 1: you mentioned some of the names, and you see them

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Speaker 1: uh drive revenue. I think the Finway Sports Group is

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Speaker 1: a great example what they were able to do with

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Speaker 1: the Red Sox and then and then to purchase Liverpool

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Speaker 1: uh and run that in a in a sort of

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Speaker 1: very sophisticated way, both on the field, how they how

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Speaker 1: they buy players and and and put put talent on

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Speaker 1: the field, but also from a business perspective, how they

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Speaker 1: drive revenue. And so I think you're you're seeing some

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Speaker 1: of these ownerships groups, once they realize what they can do,

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Speaker 1: go and say where can we do this in another

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Speaker 1: what what other teams, what other leagues can we do this?

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Speaker 1: And I think you're going to see more and more

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Speaker 1: of that. UM. I think a lot of growth has

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Speaker 1: happened in the international soccer front. A lot of US

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Speaker 1: owners have have looked to buy teams in Europe. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I also think it's it's going to continue to

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Speaker 1: happen in North America. Uh And I think as you

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Speaker 1: see teams come up for sale, you're going to see

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Speaker 1: a lot of the current owners take a look at

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Speaker 1: those you mentioned the Family Sports Group. I'm a Boston guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm up in Boston right now, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people When the John Henry's group bought fem Way, they

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Speaker 1: wanted them to raise it and build a brand new

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Speaker 1: Femiway Park, And they had a ten year plan where

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Speaker 1: they basically put some earrings on, some lipstick and a tuxedo.

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Speaker 1: Want it every year and it's it's quite a mix

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Speaker 1: of things to put on every year. Well, what kind

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Speaker 1: of parties you're going to? Lynch even But you know,

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Speaker 1: Wrigley did a little bit of that. Oakland sort of

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Speaker 1: did some renovations, renovations, things of the past. Our new

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Speaker 1: stadium is the way to go right now? Is there

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Speaker 1: any way to increase value on the same parallel to

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Speaker 1: a new stadium? Let me first say I had no

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Speaker 1: idea you were from Boston. With your accident, I have

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Speaker 1: to go pack my cars as soon as I get

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Speaker 1: out of here because just become my favorite guest. Yeah. So, um, retrofitting,

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Speaker 1: I I think it works in places like Fenway and

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Speaker 1: Wrigley where there is true, um, you know, history and

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Speaker 1: just an iconic arena. I mean sometimes I wonder if

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Speaker 1: the Yankees think back and rethink maybe they should have

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Speaker 1: tried something like that. I think it was a lot.

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Speaker 1: It was it was it would have been a challenge.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless, I think in places where where there's an

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Speaker 1: iconic stadium or arena, I think it makes sense. But

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Speaker 1: without that, I really just think it's hard to if

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Speaker 1: to keep the bones and build something that's truly unique

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Speaker 1: and special. And so I don't really necessarily think that's

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Speaker 1: going to be a trend. But the one thing that

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Speaker 1: so that maybe you would call this retrofitting I do

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Speaker 1: think you're gonna see is we were talking about technology

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Speaker 1: and how these businesses have and um, there's been so

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Speaker 1: much technology around them. I think you're going to see

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Speaker 1: a massive reinvestment in the stadiums and arenas to change

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Speaker 1: the feel and to increase the technology and the arena.

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Speaker 1: Everything from say, um WiFi is sort of the simplest,

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Speaker 1: but the sound system and even to sort of newer

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Speaker 1: things like virtual reality, augmented reality. I think the way

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Speaker 1: if you're in a stadium arena is going to feel

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Speaker 1: totally different, uh two or three years from now than

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Speaker 1: it does today, and there will be a lot of

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Speaker 1: investment needed to make that happen. So I can see that,

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Speaker 1: But as far as the team decides they need a

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Speaker 1: totally different facility, I think you're largely going to see

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Speaker 1: them building new. So Bill just going back for a

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Speaker 1: minute to kind of the empire building in the different sports.

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Speaker 1: I mean, where are the where's the most growth? I

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Speaker 1: guess from a franchise value perspective, you know, we continue

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Speaker 1: to see these records build and build, and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: specifically with of pro soccer in the United States, there

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Speaker 1: was this sense of like, all right, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of growth there. But I've talked with a few owners

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Speaker 1: who basically say, you know what, just the way the

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Speaker 1: league is set up, maybe the value isn't quite there.

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Speaker 1: This is literally your business to figure this out. And

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Speaker 1: so I'm just speculating wildly. I do wonder as you

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Speaker 1: talk to people like where is the value and what

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Speaker 1: are some of the nuances there as we think about

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Speaker 1: across the pro leagues. Yeah, yeah, sure, I mean I

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Speaker 1: guess my mind jumps to two sports and one of

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Speaker 1: them you mentioned soccer in North America. Uh, and those

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Speaker 1: franchise values, And this is maybe to the point the

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Speaker 1: person you were talking to was getting to those franchise

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Speaker 1: values have exploded. So where you used to be able

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Speaker 1: to get in at eight million and it seemed like

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Speaker 1: a great investment, now you're probably talking and so the

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Speaker 1: the growth story is from there maybe gets more challenging.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless I still think if you just not this

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Speaker 1: maybe oversimplifies it, but uh, it's sometimes it's easy to

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Speaker 1: think of it that way if you just think you

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Speaker 1: step back and think the most popular sport in the

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Speaker 1: world and the wealthiest country in the world. Uh. That

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Speaker 1: I do think there's still a lot of opportunity in

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Speaker 1: in in mlfs here, and and that there could be

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Speaker 1: Uh we could look back five ten years from now

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Speaker 1: in those franchises are trading for a billion or more UM.

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Speaker 1: And then the other export And again this is commonly

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Speaker 1: talked about, but I think it's true. Is is the

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Speaker 1: n B A and I in the n B A,

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Speaker 1: I think the story is somewhat different. It's it's an

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Speaker 1: international story and you just look at some of their

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Speaker 1: trends and say, China, um the potential in a in

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Speaker 1: a country like India. For for the NBA, I just

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Speaker 1: think that they have this opportunity to become maybe surpass

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Speaker 1: soccer as the popular most popular sport in the world,

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Speaker 1: or at least rise up to that level. And so

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Speaker 1: being owning an NBA franchise, I think it presents a

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Speaker 1: great platform um and a great opportunity to see that

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Speaker 1: grow and to be a part of it. Bill, does

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Speaker 1: anything increase the value of a franchise like a new stadium.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can win three World Series, a half

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Speaker 1: a dozen Super Bowls, But is building a new stadium

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Speaker 1: and having a new facility it Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: a game changer. I mean relocation. You see what happened

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Speaker 1: with the Rams and the Chargers, But but that's such

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Speaker 1: a one off unique and in the Raiders, I should

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Speaker 1: throw them into there too. But barring that, I think

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Speaker 1: building a new stadium is the way you really change

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Speaker 1: your franchise and the um not only uh, the perception

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Speaker 1: of it, but just the revenue potential that you can

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Speaker 1: generate from a new stadium. It's just it's just exponentially

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Speaker 1: higher than some of the older stadiums that they would

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Speaker 1: be replacing. Bill. Before we let you go, I gotta

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Speaker 1: ask you about the college level, because I feel like

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Speaker 1: over the last few months and currently, I mean even today,

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Speaker 1: what we are getting into sort of the the existential

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Speaker 1: questions around college sports. We had the Big Ten say

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Speaker 1: they weren't going to play football, and now they're going

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Speaker 1: to in the pact, Weald seemingly following suit. Uh, big

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Speaker 1: time college football is as big time as it ever was,

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Speaker 1: even in a pandemic. In some ways, it has become

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Speaker 1: massive economically for towns and colleges and universities. How do

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Speaker 1: you look at it through your lens in terms of

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Speaker 1: the facilities any of us who have been to a

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Speaker 1: major college football game, whether it's in South Bend or Tuscaloosa,

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Speaker 1: these are unbelievable facilities only getting more sophisticated. Is that

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Speaker 1: a place where you're looking and talking to people? Yeah? Sure,

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Speaker 1: you know. I'm a huge college sports say and I

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Speaker 1: love going to college football games every Saturday, and and

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Speaker 1: um and so something that uh and we've been watching closely.

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Speaker 1: I think colleges right now it's it's a bigger challenge

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Speaker 1: and that what we see in the professional space just

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Speaker 1: to at them back plane, I think the incentives are

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Speaker 1: different and um and it's easier to sort of for

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Speaker 1: an NFL team too to quarantine or to monitor their

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Speaker 1: their their team than do for Alabama to monitor their

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Speaker 1: whole football team and their interaction with all their with

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Speaker 1: all their students. So I think the challenges are higher.

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Speaker 1: But but nonetheless, you know, I think to to your question,

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Speaker 1: we this is an area that we are focusing on

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Speaker 1: a lot before the pandemic and really thought that uh

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Speaker 1: and and still do think that there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: opportunities to say, make these stadiums even even more special,

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Speaker 1: to to bring some of the technology and some of

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Speaker 1: the innovation that's happened in the professional space down to

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Speaker 1: the college space. And so that's something we still think

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Speaker 1: is there. But I think they you know that they're

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Speaker 1: going to have a tough harder time getting through the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned the economic importance of these programs to

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Speaker 1: the towns and to the university. I mean, they've really

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Speaker 1: become huge businesses and um and so um bringing them

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Speaker 1: back will be important. I think I kind of think

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Speaker 1: about it as um, you know, every day you never

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Speaker 1: know you're gonna wake up and find out this school

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Speaker 1: can't play. And it's just it's so volatile this time,

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Speaker 1: and I'm certainly hoping that they can make it through this,

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Speaker 1: but I guess, I guess we'll see what the fall

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Speaker 1: holds here, all right, Bill Mulvelhill, he is Managing Director

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Speaker 1: ahead of Sports and Entertainment Group at US Bank, joining

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Speaker 1: us from Cincinnati. Built really fun to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: This was wide ranging and really look forward to keeping

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Speaker 1: in touch. Yeah, yeah, thanks guys, and it's gonna be

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Speaker 1: a fun fall with all the sports on TV. And

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Speaker 1: look forward to catching us soon. Yeah, it'd be great.

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Speaker 1: And you can catch our podcast right here every Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday. I'm Jason Kelly. Find me on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Jason Kelly News and I'm Mike Lynch. You could

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Speaker 1: follow me at Lynch e w CVB. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Blueberg Radio around the world.