1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls podcasts, a 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session of the 11 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls podcast. In today's episode, we'll be 12 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: focusing on what happens when trust has been violated in 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: your relationship and how to heal afterwards. For this conversation, 14 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: I'm joined by doctor Tenisia Sapp, who is the director 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: and CEO of a New Level Empowerment and Consultation LLC. 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: She has over fifteen years of experience in the field 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: and is an a sex certified sex therapist. She specializes 18 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: in trauma focus counseling and sex therapy with both adolescents 19 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: and adults. Her passion is centered upon building the self 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: esteem of individuals who have experienced traumatic events. Her specialty 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: is working with the transgender community, as well as individuals 22 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: and couples experiencing low desire, erectile dysfunction, sexual pain, arousal disorders, 23 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: and couples who just want to spice up their sex life. 24 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: Using a sex positive approach, Doctor Sapp seeks to meet 25 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: the client where they are and work with them to 26 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: achieve the most desirable outcome. Dr saf and I discussed 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: the importance of actually verbalizing expectations to our partners, developing 28 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: a trust bank with your partner, how violations of trust 29 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: impact intimacy, and she shared some of her favorite resources. 30 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: If you hear something you'd like to share with others 31 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: while you're listening, please share it with us on social 32 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: media using the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's our conversation. 33 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today, Dr Sap, 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm very 35 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: excited to have you on the podcast. I mean, I 36 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: have been an admirer of your work for a long time. Um, 37 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: but we're in a couple of Facebook groups together, and 38 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: I always think that you have some of the most 39 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: insightful types of comments. Um So, I definitely wanted you 40 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: to come on the podcast to just talk about partnerships 41 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: and when intimacy looks like in partnerships, and I think 42 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: sometimes people get that confused. Um So, can you tell 43 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: us a little bit about what intimacy can look like 44 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: in a partnership? Sure? Sure. Let me first say thanks 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,839 Speaker 1: for inviting me and having me. I think I am 46 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: equally an admirer. The biggest thing that I see that 47 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: comes up with intimacy and relationships is trust. Trust is 48 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: a huge deal. When I'm working with couples, the biggest 49 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: thing that we talk about is being intimate, whether it's 50 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: sex or just are alone and quality time together is 51 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: one of the most intimate relationships that a couple or 52 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: intimate aspects of a relationship that a couple can have. 53 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: And so when there is a breach of trust or 54 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: an unmet expectation, those things come into play and really 55 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: cause a barrier or really caused a rift within that 56 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: relationship and lead to, unfortunately, the lack of intimacy or 57 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: the lack of excitement or fulfillment in that intimate aspect 58 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: of the real relationship. And when you talk about lack 59 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: of trust, I think a lot of times you think 60 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: about like, okay, somebody has been unfaithful. But of course 61 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: there are tons of ways that trust can be broken 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: down in the relationship. Can you share some other examples 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: of things that may kind of result in a lack 64 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: of trust in the relationship. Yes, So sometimes you're right 65 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: that big piece of trust is the infidelity or someone cheating, 66 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: if you will, But then we have other aspects of trust. 67 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: So I thought you were going to respond this particular 68 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: way to any event or a situation that came up, 69 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: and you did not respond how I thought you would respond. 70 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: A sense of safety, So safety being violated, whether it's 71 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 1: through intimate partner violence or some sort of physical dispute, 72 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 1: or if we're in a crowd and you didn't protect 73 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: me in some way, shape, form or fashion, or you 74 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: didn't emotionally give me what I needed from you. So 75 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 1: those pieces also contribute to a lack of trust. And sometimes, 76 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: believe it or not, finances, So a discrepancy and finances 77 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: one person is a savor, when person is a spender, 78 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: can enter fear with the trust within the relationship. Yeah, 79 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: and you mentioned that a lot of times those things 80 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: go undiscussed right like, so nobody ever says like, this 81 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: is what I needed from you in the moment, and 82 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: now I'm disappointed that that didn't happen in his results 83 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: in a lack of trust. Yes, absolutely, So what happens 84 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: sometimes is I have these expectations. You know, I think 85 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: about women. A lot of women tend to have this 86 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: idea of what their prince charming. I'm speaking from a 87 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: hetero normative view, but prince Charming is gonna act like this, 88 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: or when I think of my ideal relationship, this is 89 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: what it's gonna look like. And sometimes that's modeled off 90 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: of what we've seen with our parents or what we've 91 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: seen from our family of origin, and sometimes it's modeled 92 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: behind um, what we see on television. So a lot 93 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: of role models that come up are the hostables or 94 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: from the Cosby Show, and this is what our relationship 95 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: or what a healthy relationship should look like. So if 96 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: my spouse or significant other doesn't meet those expectations or 97 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: doesn't do those things that my daddy did or my 98 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: mom did, then that trust is gone. Now I'm upset, 99 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: And guess what, I didn't even know that was an expectation. 100 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: I didn't know you wanted dinner when you walked in 101 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: the house. I didn't know that you wanted to be 102 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: sexually intimate four times a week. I didn't know that 103 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: you didn't like your bath water at this temperature. I 104 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: didn't know that you wanted to bid me. I didn't 105 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: know that you expected me to take a shower every day. 106 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Um know, those are things that come up, and so 107 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: what happens is the first time they're discussed is usually 108 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: in the heat of the moment. So now we discussed 109 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: this in the heat of the moment, and what is 110 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: the significant other or the spouse do they have to 111 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: defend themselves. So I still didn't hear you because I 112 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: have to defend my actions. This is why I did 113 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: what I did. And so now here we go, We're 114 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: having a continued dialogue or discussion about an unmet expectation 115 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: that I didn't even know existed. Now I have to 116 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: defend myself. And so when it happens again, and it will, 117 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: it still didn't get addressed because we never had a 118 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: discussion about it. All we did was argue about it 119 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: from the beginning. And you know, as you were talking, 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: it also made me think just how we need to 121 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: do a better job of having conversations in general, right, 122 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: Because I think you mentioned and that a lot of 123 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: times these needs and expectation don't go like discussed. But 124 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: I wonder if sometimes we don't even know that we 125 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: have the expectation, Right, Like, something happens at a crowded 126 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: party and your partner doesn't react the way that you 127 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: thought that they would react. Um, but you didn't even 128 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: necessarily know that you wanted them to react in a 129 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: certain way, right, So it's just all of these weird 130 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: dynamics playing in the background that just kind of come 131 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: to a head all at once. Yes, yes, And so 132 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: what happens You kind of hit the nail right on 133 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: the head, right. So while I didn't know that this 134 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: was how I wanted you to react, I still have 135 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: the expectation. Why did I have the expectation because this 136 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: is how I assumed. There's that assumption peace Cliff Huxtable 137 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: would have reacted, my daddy would have reacted this way, 138 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: my mama would have reacted this way, Or there's some 139 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,359 Speaker 1: sort of learned piece, that social learning piece that happened 140 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: in prior relationships and prior viewed relationships, or that relationship 141 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: learning from my family, whether it was my auntie, whether 142 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: it was my parents, whether it was my grandparents up somewhere. Yeah, 143 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: it's picked up somewhere. So in the back there's this expectation. 144 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: So that's why as couples you have to have that dialogue. 145 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: You have to talk about the what ifs. And a 146 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: lot of times when we talk about what ifs. Right, 147 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: when you think about couples and relationships and you talk 148 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 1: about what ifs, people don't want to address those because 149 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: that didn't even happen, So you're just trying to drum 150 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: up something before something even happens. No, we need to 151 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: talk about the what ifs. So now we're armed with 152 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: knowledge of what my significant other desires or wants, you 153 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: know that whole notion. Stay ready so you don't have 154 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: to get ready. I know that my spouse doesn't play 155 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: when it comes to that. I know that having a 156 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: friend of the same sex or of the opposite sex, 157 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: whatever the case may be. After we had a discussion 158 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: about what's disrespectful in the relationship ships, So now we 159 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: don't have to break trust because we've already established it. 160 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: We added trust to our trust bank before there was 161 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: ever a problem, So how would you go about working 162 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: with a couple, like, how would you help them to 163 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: have some of these conversations. So in my office, we 164 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: talk about calling a spade a spade, and so we're 165 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: pretty candid and and raw with with our discussions. And 166 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,959 Speaker 1: so we'll talk about it, we'll lay it all out 167 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: on the table, and we'll have those hypothetical discussions. I 168 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: like to bring extremes, and so my hypothetical situations are 169 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: always way over the top and extreme because my philosophy 170 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: is if I give you the absolute worst case scenario, 171 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: anything else as a cake walk. So um. So on 172 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: top of that, we then talk about those things and 173 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: we add those into our trust bank, and so we 174 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: talk about what that looks like. We talk about what 175 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: you need to add into the trust bank, and that's 176 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: what we focus on and we build on that so 177 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: that way, when a situation happens and you're withdrawing from 178 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: that trust bank, you still have a positive balance to 179 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: go forward with mm mmmmmmmmm. And so you're using the 180 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: trust bank much like we use you know, our actual bank, 181 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: right like you use it as an analogy for you 182 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: have to be able to make deposits into this trust bank. 183 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: Between you and your partner so that when something happens, 184 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: like an incident happens, that they're able to be withdraws 185 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: me without it going bank growth. Absolutely, and we use 186 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: real time money. So there's no credit um, there's no 187 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: phone and a friend, there's no borrowing funds. That bank account, 188 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: that trust bank account is built between the two people 189 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: in that relationship, and then we make those deposits, and yes, 190 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: we use it just like the A t M. If 191 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: you don't have any money in your account, you cannot 192 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: overdraw the A t M. You may be able to 193 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: overdraw at Walmart if you press the credit but but 194 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: at the A t M, if you don't have enough funds, 195 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: it will say insufficient funds, no funds available, and you 196 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: cannot withdraw over your limits. So, in addition to kind 197 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: of preparing couples with like the tools to have these 198 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: conversations by you know, doing these what if scenarios, what 199 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: other kinds of things can couples or partnerships due to 200 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of make these deposits into the trust bank. So 201 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: first we start with we spend a lot of time 202 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: on what trust looks like for each person in this relationship. 203 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: We also talk about what safety looks like in this relationship, 204 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: and we work on doing those activities that help build 205 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: trust and safety in those relationships. I take my couples 206 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: back to the basics. So I take them back to 207 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: where they were, you know, all warm and buzzy and 208 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: giddy in the belly when they met, you know, where 209 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: you know, everybody was cute, and everybody was hot, and 210 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: and everybody was sexy and and everything was was warm 211 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: and fuzzy and beautiful, and you saw unicorns and rainbows 212 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: and you wanted to drop everything that you were doing, 213 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: and nothing else mattered but the two of you. And 214 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: so we go back to that safe space and the 215 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: activities you were doing during that time that brought you joy, 216 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: that let you know, you know, I just really love you, 217 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: I really like you, you know, I really think you're 218 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: really cool. Usually when they're telling those stories, their eyes 219 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: light up and they smile, and they start feeling those 220 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: warm and fuzzy feelings and butterflies in the belly all 221 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: over again. And those are the moments we capture, and 222 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: those are the moments that we worked to get back 223 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: to because those were the joyful moments, and those are 224 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: the ones that built the trust bank, and so we 225 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: use those activities and then we enhanced for where you 226 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: are now. So no, you may not be climbing stone 227 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: mountain like you did before, or may not be going 228 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: on escapades around the world like you were, but we 229 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: can bring stone Mountain to your house. We can bring 230 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: the escapades to your house. And let's talk about what 231 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: that looks like now and what that looks like for 232 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: where you are in this moment, so that we can 233 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: build those joyful moments from where we are now. And 234 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: so those are the things that really help couples identify Yes, okay, 235 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: so this is what date night looks like for us 236 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: now four kids in and no babysitter. You know, this 237 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: is what sexual intimacy looks like now, six kids later, 238 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: two grandkids, and maybe I don't have the stamina that 239 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: I had when I was twenty. So here's what it 240 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: looks like now and it's okay. So that definitely sounds 241 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: like some you know, things that couples could our partnerships 242 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: can definitely be trying themselves, like, okay, how can we 243 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: get back to remembering some of those times early in 244 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: the relationship where everything was exciting and there weren't maybe 245 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: as many responsibilities. How can we recapture some of that? Yes, yes, 246 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: I bring my Michael Jackson song into it. You know, 247 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: do you remember the time I think I'm would play 248 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: that in a session and we'll see I love that. 249 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: So those are some of the things that people can 250 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: do to kind of build up their bank. But I 251 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: do think we need to talk about what happens when 252 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: you do overdraw, right, um, And like you've already shared 253 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: some of the things that can happen to bring down 254 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: the intimacy, but what does the fallout of that look like? 255 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes after trust has been eroded in the relationships. So 256 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: typically that looks like when I get the phone call 257 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: of the schedule a session. Um, that's when couples. Couples 258 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: come to see us once an overdraft has happened, once 259 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: you get that insufficient funds letter in the mail, and 260 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: it's not the first one, so it's not the first 261 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: insufficient funds fee of thirty five dollars plus whatever the 262 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: dollar is that you went over. By the time we 263 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: get those phone calls, it's almost in the thousands of 264 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: overdraft fees and funds and reversals and things of that nature. 265 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: So we're repairing at that point first. Before we can 266 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: even start talking about the work and getting you to 267 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: the positive, we gotta get you to a zero balance. 268 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: And so we're just really being honest and recognizing what 269 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: happened and taking ownership and responsibility for what happened, and 270 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: acknowledging that there is a problem and there's not just 271 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: one person that played a role. We have multiple pieces 272 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: that played a role in this. And now that we 273 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: recognize that there is a problem and we agree that 274 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: there are pieces to this puzzle that we both have 275 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: contributed to. And in some cases that may very well 276 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: be the case. And in some cases it really is 277 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: just one sided when we're talking about the choice to 278 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: have an extra relationship, so an affair or cheating or infidelity, 279 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: whichever term you choose to use for that. So depending 280 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: on the type of overdraft, that depends on how deep 281 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: or how big of a level of repair work that 282 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: we have to do. But I'm a big believer that 283 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: if on the front end we handle things. If there's 284 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: a big breach of trust, yes that's a huge withdrawal, 285 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: but we put so much in the bank already that 286 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: we can come and we can handle this we can overcome. 287 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: But when we get to a point that you're coming 288 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: in as last ditch effort, if this doesn't work, then 289 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. Then those are hard. Those are 290 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: harder to work with and harder to work on, because 291 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: then my role as the clinician is to get us 292 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: to a point that you trust me enough to work 293 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: with you. And so that's where my work is, just 294 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 1: getting you as the couple to trust me and to 295 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: be able to share with me, and then being able 296 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: to go backwards and heal those pieces of the relationship. 297 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: I always share with my couples that once trust is broken, 298 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: we can't go back and change that that trust is broken. 299 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: That's like having a house with a cracked foundation. All 300 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: we can do is build from this point forward. We 301 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: can't go and repair foundation. It's done, the house is set, 302 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: but we can build from here. We can't build old 303 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: a new house, and building that new house requires new foundation, 304 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: requires new walls, requires a new roof, and then we 305 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: decorate the inside once all of that plumbing, all that 306 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: good stuff, And so you can't build a new house overnight. 307 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: You didn't build this relationship overnight. Knowing that pulling those 308 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: expectations together so that they're realistic and they're achievable and doable. 309 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Helps to make that process and it helps even foster 310 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: the trust between me as the clinician and you as 311 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: the couple. So really, it sounds like what you're advocating 312 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: for is to do a lot of like preventative and 313 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 1: maintenance work on your relationship before anything happened, so that 314 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: if and when anything should happen, you have enough of 315 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: a bank account stored up to be able to withstand it, yes, ma'am, 316 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: and before stay ready so you don't God got you. 317 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: One of the things that, of course happened and after 318 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: there has been a breach of trust is that there 319 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: is a damage to physical intimacy. And you mentioned that 320 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: people often don't realize like, of course there is a 321 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: change to that. So can you talk a little bit 322 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: about first why you think people miss that so much, 323 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: and you know, like what work looks like to kind 324 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: of restore that. Right, So when we talk about that 325 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: change to physical intimacy, we're talking about sexual intimacy, and 326 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: usually the biggest thing is, okay, so we're not having 327 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: text anymore? Well, yeah, that's that's about accurate because here 328 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: we are, we have this huge breach of trust or 329 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,959 Speaker 1: this huge breach of safety in this relationship, and the 330 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: first thing to go is sex. Well guess what, Yeah, 331 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: that's gonna happen, because remember, as I said earlier, that's 332 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: the most intimate connection that you're going to have in 333 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: this relationship. And so in order to do that, that 334 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: means I need to be vulnerable. I have to let 335 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: my guard down, and in order for me to do that, 336 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: I have to feel safe. So if those conditions aren't met, 337 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: then no, it's not gonna happen. And so usually that's 338 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: where people realize, oh, snap, we actually have a problem 339 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: in this relationship. Why because we're not having sex anymore, 340 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: or we're not cuddling, we're just having surface conversations. We 341 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: don't even like each other. And so one of the 342 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: things and how we work on rebuilding that again is 343 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: really to work on building that trust, putting those trust 344 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: deposits in the bank, re establishing what this looks like 345 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: for you now versus what it looks like for you 346 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: twenty years ago when you started dating. Twenty years ago 347 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: and now are two different things. Too. Many life events 348 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: have happened between here and there over the span of 349 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: twenty years, you grew up, you matured, things change you 350 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: were immature, or anything could have happened. You had kids, 351 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: bought a house, lost job, gained a job, change careers, 352 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of significant life events could have happened between 353 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: here and there. So that person that you knew then 354 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: is different now because of growth and evolving. So one 355 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: of the things that we do to work through that 356 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: is getting to know who your partner is now and 357 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: what they like now. And don't assume that because you've 358 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 1: known them for twenty years or because they've known you 359 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: for twenty years, that everything should still be the same, 360 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: because they're not. And what people are finding out is that, oh, 361 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: so you don't like pizza like you like before. Well no, 362 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: because it gives me heartburn. I've been telling you that, 363 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: but you you didn't hear me. So here we are now, 364 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: or maybe there's weight changes or whatever the case may be, 365 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: physical changes, whatever that looks like. And so we work 366 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: on establishing who your partner is now, what they like now. 367 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: And sometimes my couples get frustrated because you know, I 368 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: already know this, I already know that person, but then 369 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: that one new thing comes up and boom, Now we 370 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: have exposure. Now we have that moment, that aha moment. 371 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, something did change. Yes, something did evolve in 372 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: this relationship. Something did evolve over time. And now we're 373 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: getting back to focusing on us in our relationship. And 374 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: when we're doing that, all the while, we're building that trust, 375 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: we're building that safety. I'm able to express myself without 376 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: being judged for how I feel or without being judged 377 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: for these experiences and you actually hear me. So we're 378 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 1: improving communication, we're re establishing trust, we're building a new 379 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: foundation where cultivating this relationship. So we're strengthening this relationship 380 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: in this bond. And now guess what, I just got 381 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: my best friend back. So yeah, I you thought I 382 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: was swinging from the chandelier before, but I'm really swinging now. 383 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 1: And hey, we're having fun with it too, right right, 384 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: And I'm really glad you address those things because I 385 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: do think you know, there's often the perception and again 386 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: when we're talking about like a heteronormative kind of a couple, 387 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: you know, like that the woman is withholding sex or 388 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 1: you know, being punitive in some way because she's angry 389 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: at her partner. When you don't realize like all of 390 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: the factors that go into somebody deciding that they don't 391 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: want to be intimate with someone. M hm, So let 392 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: me let me be clear about that, because you brought 393 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: up a good point about withholding sex. So sometimes people 394 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: do do that as a form of punishment. But guess 395 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: who ends up suffering. You're punishing your partner and your 396 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: mate because they pitched you off for whatever reason. And 397 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: so now you're saying, you know what, just because that happened, 398 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: you're not getting none. You're not getting done for three 399 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: or four or five weeks. Guess what, boo boo, that 400 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: means you're not getting any either. And so if it 401 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: comes down to me or you, guess who's gonna get their's? 402 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: So who's winning here? Who? Who just won the golden prize? 403 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: Now we're both equally frustrated and everybody's angry. No, don't 404 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: do that. Now, that's that's different than I don't feel safe, 405 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: we don't have trust, and so yes, this is now, 406 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: this is not punishment. This is I don't have a desire, 407 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm not I don't like you right now, so it's 408 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: hard for me to give you all my goodies and 409 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: do all these tricks and twists and back flips if 410 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: I don't even like you right now, right right, But 411 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: that's not what we're specifically discussing here, right, No, but 412 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: two completely separate things. Right, You didn't take out the trash, 413 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: so you know, guess what, No, this is not your kid, 414 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: and so no, this is not the way to to 415 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: handle that. But if I'm not feeling safe, we don't 416 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: have trust. Every time you say you're gonna do something, 417 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: you don't do it. We may have had some physical 418 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: altercations whatever the case may be, that broke that trust. 419 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: And now here we are in this moment, and we 420 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: can even add that piece into it. If I feel 421 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: like I am I have to parent you, then yeah, 422 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: that also is going to break down that sense of 423 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: intimacy and desire and even arousal within the relationship because 424 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: we're not having sex with our kids. So so those 425 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: pieces also come up as well. But the biggest thing 426 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: here is being able to have that discuss shin and 427 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: being able to talk about what you need and being 428 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: able to hear what your significant other or your partner 429 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: needs without being defensive about it. Listen to them, hear them, 430 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: and acknowledge that you hear them because they're entitled to 431 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: their feelings just like you are. And then now let's 432 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 1: work on how can we fix it. How can I 433 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: contribute to making this relationship better? So you mentioned something 434 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: after said that I feel like we need to go 435 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,199 Speaker 1: back to because I feel like I see a lot 436 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: of conversations online and just you know, in life about 437 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: like helping your partner and you know, like supporting your partner, 438 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: and I think sometimes there is a line that gets 439 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 1: crossed that does become a parenting kind of a thing. 440 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: And like you mentioned, that doesn't typically breed attraction, right, 441 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: Like if you feel like you are mothering someone, that 442 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: definitely is not a sexual attraction. And so what can 443 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: you say more about what that line is? Like, when 444 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: do you go too far in the support in helping 445 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: where it crosses the line to parenting. Oh gosh, that's 446 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: a whole, that's a whole another reporting. And I knew 447 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: as soon as I said it, I said, I'm about 448 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: to open up a can of worm. Well, we gotta go, 449 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: We gotta do we do though, because we're about to 450 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: heal some relationships. Yes, So, yes, we're gonna heal some 451 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: heal some relationships here, so here, here's the thing, right, 452 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: And so a lot of times will will have folks 453 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: who get into relationships and they're excited and you found 454 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: you able and you know, yeah, you can be his 455 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: ride of die check. You can hold him down. I mean, 456 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: we ain't we ain't gotta die. But you can hold 457 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: them down, right, you can hold them down. There's nothing 458 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: wrong with being there for your boom. There's nothing wrong 459 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: with with being the strength of being the support system, 460 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: being the helpmate, whatever word you need in that moment. 461 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: It's absolutely nothing wrong. However, when there comes a time, 462 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: I think the hard fast, thick, thick, thick black line 463 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: is when there is a point that our dynamics have 464 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: shifted to where I am your only source. Does that 465 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: make sense? Where I am the only person that And 466 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,239 Speaker 1: it could be something that I created, It could be 467 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: the dynamics where the partner was codependent and I got 468 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: drafted into this role. It could be a number of things. 469 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: But the only piece of something is coming from me. Now. 470 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: That does not count. When you out there and your 471 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: mate is out there grinding and they lost their job 472 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, whether it was poor decision making on 473 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: their end, or if the position was eliminated or whatever, 474 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: or if you had a discussion about starting your own 475 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: business and it just hasn't moved. How how you thought 476 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: it was gonna move. And yeah, you're the only source. 477 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: That's totally different. This is this has been your role 478 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: from from the beginning, or this has been now your 479 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: adapted role, and that is the expected role. So now 480 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: instead of conversations where we are on a partnership level 481 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: and we have a equal saying things, you are now 482 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: the authoritative figure. You are the soul person as though 483 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: you are now the parent every move we make, I'm 484 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: looking to you to make this final decision and your 485 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: word is final, not that we get to have a 486 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: discussion about it, but you have the soul say and everything. 487 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: Not that I'm looking to you or I chose to 488 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: defer to you, but that is the rule. Those are 489 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: our relationship rules and roles. And now I don't have 490 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: this sense that this is now a partnership, but this 491 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: is becoming a authoritative relationship or a dictatorship, and it's 492 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: one sided. So now I am the only person handling everything, 493 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: and I don't have a partner, I have a dependent 494 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: and so now here we are, we don't have intimacy 495 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: because well, you know, when I'm handed down the SmackDown 496 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: all day long, UM, I really don't want to be 497 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: intimate with somebody that um is my dependent because I'm 498 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: not really out here having sex with kids. So here 499 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: you are just another person. So now we're roommates or 500 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: we're just kicking it and we don't have a relationship. 501 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: We don't have a partnership. Yeah, I feel like that 502 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: dynamic also happens, you know, when you get into a 503 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: space of being the only one, like you mentioned to 504 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: go to for support, but that you are also handling 505 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: more of the load than the other person. You know, 506 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: like they may be looking for a new job, but 507 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: you're the one doing all the searching and you're the 508 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: one reviewing the rhysumes and uploading it, and you know, 509 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: like that the other person is not even kind of 510 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: pulling their weight in what maybe even their endeavor. Right. So, 511 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: but then when you even think about it from that perspective, 512 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: so who wants the job? Because if you want the job, 513 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna look right, or that's the assumption or the expectation. 514 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: So if you're spending time and you're out there doing 515 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: a job hunt and you already have a job, but 516 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: you're doing the job hunt for your spouse or significant other. Houston, 517 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: we have a problem. Yeah, not that you can't assist 518 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: with it. Of course, all day long, I happen to 519 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: have leads. I can offer those to you if I 520 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,719 Speaker 1: happen to know somebody who's hiring. But what I can't 521 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: do is get on the phone and schedule your interview. 522 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: What I can't do is complete your your full application. 523 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: Now I can I can assist you with completing your 524 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: application because maybe it's online and typing it's not your strength. Well, 525 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: you're sitting next to me, You're not out hanging with 526 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 1: the whole knees while I'm at home complete in your 527 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: job applications and and and doing your resume and um, 528 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: and then handling everything else in the house. That's that's 529 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: not okay, right, Okay, So I hope anybody needed to 530 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: hear that. I was able to hear that. Um, you know, 531 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: because I do thinks sometimes we find ourselves in these 532 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: positions and you look up and you're like, wait, what 533 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: happened here? But also you know there's no judgment either. 534 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: If that's right, makes you happy, go for it, you know. 535 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: So if you are that person and that is your 536 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 1: role and it brings you joy, hear me when I 537 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: say this, go for it. I'm happy for you because 538 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: if that's working for you, let it. So it's it's 539 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: kind of that that idea that it's not a problem 540 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: until it's a problem. So I think that I just 541 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: want to make it super clear that this is for 542 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: that person who is struggling with this idea that I 543 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: don't like this, I don't want this, not for that 544 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,759 Speaker 1: person who's saying, shoot this, that's gravy. You're gonna be 545 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: a stay at home person and I'm gonna go out 546 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: and work, go for it, do it, And that's okay too. 547 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: But if that's not what you want and that's not 548 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: your ideal relationship setting, then here is that support and 549 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: encouragement for you to set those firm boundaries and it's okay. Yeah, 550 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: it feels like it all kind of goes back to 551 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: that undiscussed expectation piece, right, Like, if it works for 552 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: you and that's what y'all have discussed and that's what's happening, 553 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: then fine. But if it's something that you found yourself 554 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: in now and you don't like it, then there may 555 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: be a conversation that needs to be head. Absolutely, that's it. 556 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: That's it right there. So what are some of your 557 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: favorite resources for couples, Like what kinds of books or 558 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: websites or podcasts do you find yourself kind of suggesting 559 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: over and over? Oh my goodness, UM, I'm trying to think. 560 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: So one book that I always recommend to couples who 561 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: may have had where there wasn't an affair or something 562 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: like that. So there's a couple of books. One that 563 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: comes to mind is called Getting Past the Affair. There's 564 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: another one that I really like called Relationship Recipes. There's 565 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: another one that I like that is called for Giving Forwards, 566 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: about forgiveness. And then there's some self help books that 567 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: I recommend two couples who are struggling with sexual pieces 568 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,799 Speaker 1: and intimacy within the relationship by Barry McCarthy. I give 569 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 1: his information his books about intimacy and desire and things 570 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: of that nature. So those are I think are the 571 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: biggest tools that I utilized within my work as far 572 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: as recommending books, I highly, highly highly recommend that people 573 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: stay off Google. Um, don't google your relationship problems. Google 574 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: did not solved the problem. Google heightens the paranoia. If 575 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: you seek it, you will find it. So if you 576 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: go looking for symptoms, you're gonna find those symptoms and 577 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: they're going to fit your your ideal or your sense 578 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: of something. UM. I also recommend that my people in 579 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: relationships don't go talking about relationship problems to their single friends. 580 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about practitioners who may be single. I'm 581 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: talking about single friends. Because your single friends are good 582 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: at being single, and so that's what they know, and 583 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 1: that's their perspective that they're gonna give you. So if 584 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 1: you're wanting advice, I usually have my couples go and 585 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: talk to people who have been in relationships for a 586 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 1: very very very long time. So I have them go 587 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: find an elderly couple who have been together for over 588 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: thirty years. So if they've been together for twenty, I 589 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: want you to go find somebody who's been together for 590 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: fifty uh, And that way you can talk to them 591 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: about somebody who's together and and they like each other. 592 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: So I don't want you to go find your great 593 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: grandma and great grandfather who don't like each other and 594 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: they're constantly fighting. But I want you to go find 595 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 1: your Fred and Ethel who love each other, but you 596 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: know they made throws, start sarcasm and shade at each 597 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: other every so often, but at the end of the day, 598 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 1: they have each other's bags. So go find your people 599 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: or and add to your tribe, folks who who are 600 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: where you aspire to be, and add that piece to 601 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: your puzzle, at that piece to your relationship toolbox and 602 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: learn and ask them questions, interview them, ask them the 603 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: tough questions, how did you deal with this? How did 604 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,720 Speaker 1: you work through this? Did you experience this and believe 605 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 1: it or not? Most couples will be open to sharing 606 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,720 Speaker 1: the pieces that they learned about each other, the pieces 607 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: that worked and the pieces that didn't, especially couples that 608 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: who may have gone through some stuff, because they'll believe 609 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: in how to make this work and the things that 610 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: you have to put into making this work. I work 611 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: a little bit differently with my couples who are married 612 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,760 Speaker 1: versus my couples who are dating the hus My couples 613 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: who are married have a different level of a commitment together. 614 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: It's not as easy to walk away than it is 615 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: for my couples who are just dating and trying to 616 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: figure out. So we come from this lens on both 617 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 1: sides of the spectrum with what do you want? But 618 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,839 Speaker 1: how bad do you want it? And how hard are 619 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: you willing to work for it? When you're upset and 620 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: you're married, you can't really go very far. You can 621 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,840 Speaker 1: go downstairs. You can go if there's an upstairs and downstairs, 622 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: but you can go to the couch. When you're dating 623 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: and you're upset, you can go home, and your home 624 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: is typically at a different address. Now, if you live 625 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: together in your dating then of course those dynamics are 626 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: a little bit different. But still that level of commitment 627 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 1: and investment may be different because if you're upset, you 628 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: can go to your friend's house, you can go to 629 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: a parent's house, and yeah you can when you're married 630 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: as well. But what you're gonna put into that and 631 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: how much effort you're gonna put into that is gonna 632 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: look a little bit different, because maybe I don't want 633 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: my family to know that we're having a problem, So 634 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: I find that those pieces are a little bit different, 635 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: and so how I may go about working with that 636 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: or giving those tools may look a little bit different. 637 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, the goal is 638 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: still the same. Are we gonna be together? Are we not? 639 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: And before we get into this, we need to be 640 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: secure in our decision and know if we're gonna get 641 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: into this or not, if we're gonna stay together or not. 642 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: And knowing that also plays a role in the work 643 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,839 Speaker 1: and the effort that you're gonna put into making this 644 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: work and doing the work that's required in our work together. Amazing. 645 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: So where can people find you online? What's your website 646 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: as well as any social media handles that you want 647 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: to share. Okay, so you can visit my practice website 648 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: www dot a new level dot org, so like a 649 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: new pair of shoes, but a new level Dot org. 650 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: And so my practice name is a New Level Empowerment 651 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: and Consultation and you'll see me listed on that website. 652 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: You can follow me on Instagram at I am Dr 653 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: Tenisha SAP and my last name is spelled A S 654 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: A p p Sarah Apple, Paul Paul and then you 655 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: can follow me on Instagram, Twitter and do. I don't 656 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: have a public Facebook page for clients, but we do 657 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: have one for the practice, which is a New Level LLC. 658 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: That's the handle for Facebook, so people can follow follow 659 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: that and I do have a Pinterest board for couples 660 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: as well, and I think that's Tenisia sapp as well. 661 00:41:52,239 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: Basically that following pieces Twitter, Instagram and Interest, and then 662 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: the practice is listed on Facebook. But the best the 663 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: biggest places to interact and engage, and then anybody looking 664 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,759 Speaker 1: to learn more or get more connected with me can 665 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: go to our website and schedule time to meet with me. 666 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely sounds good. Well, thank you so much for sharing 667 00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: your expertise with us today. I really appreciate it. Thank you, 668 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Absolutely, I'm so thankful Dr 669 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: Sap was able to share her expertise with us today. 670 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: To check out the resources she shared and to learn 671 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: more about her practice, visit the show notes at Therapy 672 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash Session seventy three, and 673 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: please be sure to share this episode with two people 674 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: in your life or share your takeaways with us in 675 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 1: your I G stories. Make sure to use the hashtag 676 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: tv G and session so that we can share them. 677 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be 678 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: sure to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black 679 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,919 Speaker 1: Girls dot Com slash directory. Don't forget to check out 680 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls store to grab your T 681 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: shirt or a mug to show your love for the podcast. 682 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: You can shop at the store at Therapy for Black 683 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,120 Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash shop. And if you want to 684 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,760 Speaker 1: continue this conversation and join a community of other sisters 685 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: who listen to the podcast, join us over in the 686 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: Thrive tribe at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe. 687 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: Make sure you answer the three questions that are asked 688 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 1: to gain entry. Thank y'all so much for joining me 689 00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: again this week, and I look forward to continuing this 690 00:43:39,600 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. I 691 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:17,280 Speaker 1: doctor often ill oftor p ofctor