Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Thanks for tuning in to Cheeky's and Chill,
Speaker 1: your favorite podcast, and I just wanted to start off
Speaker 1: by saying, I know that there are a lot of
Speaker 1: other podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you guys
Speaker 1: choosing to listen to mine.
Speaker 2: I love you guys very much. Okay, so today's episode is.
Speaker 1: Going to be a really interesting one because we're going
Speaker 1: to be talking about marriage, divorce, and prenups, which I
Speaker 1: know are super controversial, and I'm bringing on a seasoned
Speaker 1: divorce attorney.
Speaker 2: Her name is Christina Royce.
Speaker 1: She's the Los Angeles co chair of the matrimonial and
Speaker 1: family practice at the law firm Blank Rome. She's also
Speaker 1: one of Hollywood's go to divorce lawyers, so you know
Speaker 1: she has seen it all. And just a REMINDERR, this
Speaker 1: is not legal advice and you should consult with a
Speaker 1: qualified professional if you have any questions related to this episode.
Speaker 1: So with that being said, Hi Christina, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to speak to you. How are you.
Speaker 3: I'm doing well? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm happy, a good day.
Speaker 1: I am so I have so many questions because I've
Speaker 1: been divorced before and I'm now remarried and thank goodness,
Speaker 1: happily married. But you just never know what can happen,
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So what is the biggest misconception about
Speaker 1: divorce you think?
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, for I think for a
Speaker 3: lot of people, it could feel like really scary, and
Speaker 3: it can feel overwhelming, and it can feel like daunting,
Speaker 3: and they feel like it's like the end of their life.
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of people realize that
Speaker 3: sometimes that marriage is not the right situation, and then
Speaker 3: later on they signed a real true happiness being outside
Speaker 3: of a bad relationship. Like, look, you got remarried. You know,
Speaker 3: you've found a different love in your life. But it's scary.
Speaker 3: It's a scary process to go through it. Right, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of unknowns relating to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like divorce can bring out
Speaker 1: the worst in people.
Speaker 3: That's definitely true.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I give a lot of people. I tell everybody, like
Speaker 3: put post its everywhere, like be your best self through
Speaker 3: this process. Be your best self through this process, because
Speaker 3: it's really hard. People get gas lit, they're nervous, they're
Speaker 3: financially scared. Right, it's really an overwhelming process.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: I know my sister's going through it right now, and
Speaker 1: even when I want to give her advice, I don't
Speaker 1: even know what to say. I mean, because I feel
Speaker 1: like they have children together, so they should have the
Speaker 1: peace amongst themselves. But things are just getting so out
Speaker 1: of hand, and all you can do as a big
Speaker 1: sister is just step back and say, okay, like hopefully
Speaker 1: let the attorneys that the professionals do you know, guide
Speaker 1: you because it's difficult, Like they say, you know, you've
Speaker 1: been with this person for so many years, but you
Speaker 1: don't really know who they are until you're getting divorced.
Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen really that there could be
Speaker 1: a divorce that's like amicable, like really or does it
Speaker 1: always have a very like nasty ending to it.
Speaker 3: I would say that the majority of my cases have
Speaker 3: a more amicable approach to their divorce.
Speaker 1: Oh okay.
Speaker 3: I think they realize that they have kids together and
Speaker 3: are going to be in each other's lives. A lot
Speaker 3: of them realize that the marriage may not be the
Speaker 3: right you know, it may not be their right union.
Speaker 3: But for the most part, and I maybe it's kind
Speaker 3: of the clients that I get or the kind of
Speaker 3: approach I take. We really try to take a more
Speaker 3: amicable approach to the to the situation and work more collaboratively,
Speaker 3: which I think it reduces fear. You know, there's not
Speaker 3: a lot of surprises during the divorce case. We do
Speaker 3: things in an orderly fashion so everyone feels comfortable through
Speaker 3: the process. And I do think that that how we
Speaker 3: approach the divorce case really helps them launch later on
Speaker 3: as co parents.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that and I appreciate that, and also I
Speaker 1: think it also saves the client money, right because it
Speaker 1: could get expensive, especially how expensive can a divorce be.
Speaker 3: It can be expensive. I mean, it depends on the issue. Sometimes.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm really good at I'm a big believer
Speaker 3: in throwing money to a situation. If it gets certainty,
Speaker 3: if it gets peace of mind, if it makes the
Speaker 3: kids situation better, if it makes like getting rid of
Speaker 3: the lawyers, if it means moving on, I think there's
Speaker 3: value to that. And you know, obviously with degrees, but
Speaker 3: I think there's value to paying money to the other
Speaker 3: side as opposed to paying all this money to the
Speaker 3: lawyers if you can get it done right. And there's
Speaker 3: some gray areas in the family law. So it's nice
Speaker 3: to just being able to like solve those differences by
Speaker 3: you know, with having some financial resources being paid.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So do you feel now that you you know, you
Speaker 1: said that you've been practicing for twenty plus years, do
Speaker 1: you feel that a divorce is on the rise.
Speaker 3: I think that I'll say this. I think my business
Speaker 3: is definitely recession proof. It depends, you know, when I
Speaker 3: think certain things are difficult. I think that really shines
Speaker 3: in whether a marriage is the strong marriage or something
Speaker 3: that maybe needs to move on. I think it's been
Speaker 3: pretty consistent, you know. I think there's times where a
Speaker 3: lot of people get divorced after their kids launch and
Speaker 3: go to college, because maybe that's an easier time for
Speaker 3: people to move on. I think there's times where people
Speaker 3: get married and are married only for short periods and
Speaker 3: it turned out it's not the right thing. Maybe they
Speaker 3: have different views about children or things like that. So
Speaker 3: I don't I can't tell you it's really on the
Speaker 3: rise or not.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I also look and here here's my situation, and we
Speaker 3: can talk about this that I've been married almost thirty years.
Speaker 3: I very much believe in the in the concept of
Speaker 3: marriage and the union of a marriage. I just look
Speaker 3: at it maybe a little differently. Look, I believe marriage
Speaker 3: really involves three different buckets, right. I think we need
Speaker 3: our sexual intimacy and need connect and sexually, I think
Speaker 3: we need to feel connected emotionally, right and have that
Speaker 3: emotional connection. But I also think there needs to be
Speaker 3: what I call financial intimacy, or I feel like people
Speaker 3: need to feel like they can have these conversations about
Speaker 3: finances that are sometimes difficult to have, Like, you know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people come to me and they
Speaker 3: don't know anything about like I don't know how much
Speaker 3: we make, I don't know how much is in the bank.
Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of like support I would get.
Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of circumstances we live. I
Speaker 3: know we live X, Y and Z, and we do
Speaker 3: all these things, and that's a really like that's a
Speaker 3: lack of partnership, right, And so I think having that
Speaker 3: financial intimacy means that we're we need to be more
Speaker 3: partners with one another as much as we need to
Speaker 3: have like the sexual intimacy and the emotional intimacy, but
Speaker 3: we need to have that connection financially.
Speaker 1: I agree, And that's something that I learned this time around,
Speaker 1: that it's not seeing it as yours in mine, it's ours.
Speaker 1: We're a team, and it just changes everything again. Also,
Speaker 1: couple's therapy has helped quite a bit, you know, because
Speaker 1: it's two different people coming together and we have to
Speaker 1: understand we're not going to think the same, we're not
Speaker 1: going to have always the same opinion, and we have
Speaker 1: to be okay with that. But how can we work
Speaker 1: through it? You know, especially that the financial part and
Speaker 1: aspect of marriage, it could be, like you said, very
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable sometimes conversation, but very necessary.
Speaker 3: And look, there's a lot of people who I think
Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of people who get
Speaker 3: married later in life now, right, and they have already
Speaker 3: have established businesses or assets, and they may be coming
Speaker 3: into a marriage and not everything's going to be equal, right,
Speaker 3: and because they already built up there a lot of
Speaker 3: their net worth, and so they need to have those
Speaker 3: conversations that not everything that I own as of the
Speaker 3: data marriage becomes ours. Like maybe there's things that do
Speaker 3: become ours, and there's things that are mine because I
Speaker 3: either inherited assets or I really worked hard before marriage
Speaker 3: to get that. But those are the things that people
Speaker 3: need to have these conversations of. So so there's an understanding,
Speaker 3: right yeah. My husband gets mad at me because I say,
Speaker 3: your marriage is a lot like a business, right, Like
Speaker 3: you know, we wouldn't you and I wouldn't go into
Speaker 3: business together without saying, Okay, you know, what are you
Speaker 3: going to contribute to the business? What am I going
Speaker 3: to contribute to the business? How are we going to
Speaker 3: handle that? And like the same should be true with
Speaker 3: a marriage, like how are we going to handle all
Speaker 3: these finances? And I think there's a there's a business
Speaker 3: aspect of it. My husband's like, you're always a unromantic Chris.
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny that you say that because
Speaker 1: I just watched I came across a video on social
Speaker 1: media last night about a man speaking about his marriage
Speaker 1: and he's he seems to be very successful man and
Speaker 1: he's been married for fifteen plus years and he said
Speaker 1: that his secret is approaching his marriage like his businesses,
Speaker 1: sitting down on a weekly basis and talking about Okay,
Speaker 1: what happened this weekend and what can you do?
Speaker 2: What will I do?
Speaker 1: And it's how would you go into a business meeting
Speaker 1: do that in your marriage, and I had never seen
Speaker 1: it like that, And now in this confirmation, now that
Speaker 1: you're saying it, I'm like, Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely some truth to that. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: like you just have to have those but those are
Speaker 3: some of its hard conversations and it's not easy, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you have to be open and able and
Speaker 1: willing to have those uncomfortable conversations. And that's what I
Speaker 1: learned before. It was like, it should just be easy,
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be so hard. The thing is is communication
Speaker 1: is key. And I always tell you guys here on
Speaker 1: the pod communication, especially in your relationship, in any relationship,
Speaker 1: romantic business, et cetera. And Christina, do you have any
Speaker 1: tips or advice on how to reduce the chance of
Speaker 1: getting divorced?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it goes back to something what we're
Speaker 3: talking about. I think that it is really important that
Speaker 3: we get better at communicating, that we understand that. I
Speaker 3: think people come in with different needs, Like I may
Speaker 3: be much more of a sensitive person. My husband may
Speaker 3: be more of a reactive person. Like I have to
Speaker 3: understand that he can be like that and I can
Speaker 3: be different, Like we're genetically made up differently, right, And
Speaker 3: so I think having those communications and talking about it
Speaker 3: is important. I think it's really important not to be
Speaker 3: reactive to things and to be more responsive to things.
Speaker 3: I think therapy is a really helpful thing that if
Speaker 3: people need really help and guidance on how to communicate,
Speaker 3: I think that's helpful. I think sharing information, you know,
Speaker 3: even if someone comes and says, let's assume they came
Speaker 3: into the marriage with fifty million dollars, right, and they
Speaker 3: had all this money before marriage, it's sometimes important to
Speaker 3: share with the other side. Look, look, I came into
Speaker 3: this marriage with these these assets. This is what I
Speaker 3: came into. Like, that doesn't mean it's all going to
Speaker 3: be ours, and I want us to understand that, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean we can't do things and enjoy certain
Speaker 3: things together. But as there's more transparency and accountability and conversation,
Speaker 3: I think it really helps marriages.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I mean, in which brings me to my next question,
Speaker 1: which is about prenups. Do you believe do you recommend
Speaker 1: highly recommend prenups?
Speaker 3: So I hate the word prenup because I think everybody
Speaker 3: has such a bad connotation about it. I wish we'all
Speaker 3: called them partnership agreements because I think it as I stop,
Speaker 3: a softer way of like we're entering into a partnership
Speaker 3: with one another. Yeah. I think some are very necessary
Speaker 3: because there are some really gray areas when it comes
Speaker 3: to family law. And I think some people approach a
Speaker 3: marriage like a business and they want to make sure
Speaker 3: that if this business didn't work or this marriage didn't work,
Speaker 3: that there's clear understanding of what's ours and what's going
Speaker 3: to be shared and what's not ours. Right. So like,
Speaker 3: for example, if I were to get married, if the
Speaker 3: listim I was not married, and I got married to right,
Speaker 3: I have built twenty eight years of building my law
Speaker 3: practice right and building my reputation right. And then during
Speaker 3: the marriage, I don't want there to be messiness about
Speaker 3: whether the community got an interest in my law practice
Speaker 3: or not. You know, I've worked really hard to get
Speaker 3: to this point. Up to this point, So I may
Speaker 3: want an agreement that says, look, during the marriage or
Speaker 3: I may share all my income and all my income
Speaker 3: can be community, but I want to make sure my
Speaker 3: law practice will always be separate property and not and
Speaker 3: have clear rules on it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's people who feel that way, and I
Speaker 3: think an agreement can really be helpful that way. I
Speaker 3: can also see there's a lot of times where I
Speaker 3: will get people to come to me that are part
Speaker 3: of a family enterprise. Like you know, their family has
Speaker 3: built these big businesses for generations and they want to
Speaker 3: make sure that those businesses stay separate property right, And
Speaker 3: so there's these things in agreements that we can protect
Speaker 3: on that. You know, in family law, we have what's
Speaker 3: called alimony. You know, if you get separated, there's alimony
Speaker 3: after a divorce. And California is very big on alimony.
Speaker 3: It's a high high state, Okay. And some people are like, look,
Speaker 3: I've been married before. I payin rat alimony to my
Speaker 3: ex wife. I don't want to have to be in
Speaker 3: a situation where I'm paying all this money again. And
Speaker 3: they may want limitations on that right, and they may
Speaker 3: want protections on that and those are things that are
Speaker 3: common in agreements. Similarly, I have also done a number
Speaker 3: of agreements where we are building more community for the
Speaker 3: parties than there would be. So there can be a
Speaker 3: big benefit to having an agreement. And so like, for example,
Speaker 3: I'll give you an example, let's assim come someone comes
Speaker 3: in and they're worth one hundred million dollars and they're
Speaker 3: a big trust fund kid, right, and they're not working
Speaker 3: during the marriage. They're just worth one hundred million dollars. Right.
Speaker 3: They a marriage. And we've done a lot of agreements
Speaker 3: where we've built some of that taken some of that money,
Speaker 3: and we've created more community or wealth from it. Right.
Speaker 3: And we've done more where we've can like build more
Speaker 3: partnerships during the marriage. And what we do is we
Speaker 3: call we transmute or we change the character of the money.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of different things that we can
Speaker 3: do in the agreement. Some can be very beneficial to
Speaker 3: the other spouse, some can be less beneficial. I don't
Speaker 3: really get involved in my colleagues, don't get involved in
Speaker 3: agreements that are like so incided that it would be
Speaker 3: a disaster and divorce. I mean, I just won't get
Speaker 3: involved in those kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think just being fair and keeping
Speaker 1: that in mind, I think that is a huge thing.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm getting that sense from you,
Speaker 1: and I love that where you're just fair and you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want everything to just be peaceful.
Speaker 2: There's no need to argue and.
Speaker 3: Take away the gray area, like let's have it clean
Speaker 3: and simple. And you know, I'm not somebody if like,
Speaker 3: you know, you have to understand, if you're forty years
Speaker 3: old and you're marrying a sixty year old who's already
Speaker 3: established themselves and already gone through a divorce, they may
Speaker 3: want something really simple, easy and clean. They may not
Speaker 3: want another big, protracted divorce case. And you're forty years old.
Speaker 3: That's something you have to understand with the person that
Speaker 3: you're marrying at that point, right, And that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I agree, I completely agree, because I just feel the
Speaker 1: partnership agreements, you know, definitely bring a peace of mind.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I have one, and he had
Speaker 1: no issue. He said, that's totally fine. I get it,
Speaker 1: didn't give me any issues. I made sure he got
Speaker 1: his own attorney because obviously he had to. But I
Speaker 1: wanted him to understand everything. And we are building together
Speaker 1: and we have that very clear. In my past, I
Speaker 1: did have, you know, someone that wasn't very happy about
Speaker 1: that and felt like, oh, you don't trust me, and
Speaker 1: why you know, what do you think I would take
Speaker 1: something from you? And it's like, no, it's not that
Speaker 1: it's just I learned from my mother, you know. She
Speaker 1: was one that said, you you want to go into
Speaker 1: a marriage with peace of mind and know that this
Speaker 1: person is with you for the right reasons. And I
Speaker 1: understood it right away, but there are some people that don't.
Speaker 1: And also Christina, and if you could tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit more about postnups.
Speaker 3: So, post ups are agreements done during the marriage where
Speaker 3: you're not getting divorced and you still want to stay married,
Speaker 3: but you want to change the law or change what
Speaker 3: your prenup is. Right. So there's times where people will
Speaker 3: enter into a prenup and then they're like, you know,
Speaker 3: over time, we've done this, or we've done this, or
Speaker 3: we want to change this, and they can enter into
Speaker 3: post nuptial agreements to modify it. There are times where
Speaker 3: people enter in post nups because they sometimes don't like
Speaker 3: how the marriage is feeling and they want more certainty
Speaker 3: with respect to their finances. So I had a really
Speaker 3: interesting case one time where the wife wanted very conservative investments.
Speaker 3: She was more conservative, she was more fear based, she
Speaker 3: was more scared, and a husband was like as risky
Speaker 3: investments as you can imagine, Like I want to invest
Speaker 3: in like coffees in Brazil, right, And so what we
Speaker 3: did was we created a post up because this they
Speaker 3: loved each other and they wanted to like stay married,
Speaker 3: but they had these like fights about their investment decisions, right,
Speaker 3: And so what we did was we created a pot
Speaker 3: of community, a pot of separate for him, a pot
Speaker 3: of separate for her. She was going to keep hers in.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't want treasuries and you know, do
Speaker 3: something really easy. He could do whatever he wanted. We
Speaker 3: had our community that was still paying all the community
Speaker 3: bills in their community lifestyles. And it was a situation
Speaker 3: that we looked at the marriage both from me. They
Speaker 3: loved each other and wanted to stay married, and they
Speaker 3: had a you know, strong romantic relationship, but we looked
Speaker 3: at it from a business standpoint. What made sense for
Speaker 3: them both financially, And it cut out all this fighting
Speaker 3: because now she's like, if everything goes to Helen and
Speaker 3: Hadden Basket for him, that's on him, right, I don't
Speaker 3: have to worry about that. And if something happened to me,
Speaker 3: I have my little pot of money and I'm going
Speaker 3: to be safe and I'm going to be secure with it.
Speaker 3: So it works for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, and again I go back to as mad as
Speaker 3: my husband can get it. If there's still a business
Speaker 3: aspect of.
Speaker 2: This, definitely, no, not now I could.
Speaker 1: I see it completely and like it makes so much sense,
Speaker 1: and I agree. I think that whatever's going to give
Speaker 1: the other person a peace of mind and in that
Speaker 1: way they'll be able. She's now, she's like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: he has X amount of money in his little pot
Speaker 1: and I'll do He could do as he pleases, and
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna be able to love him totally.
Speaker 3: And she didn't have to be freaking out at night
Speaker 3: and roorring and.
Speaker 1: Holding resentment r Yeah. Now, A cool question in regards
Speaker 1: to it to the post up? Do you have to
Speaker 1: have a prenup in order to have a post up
Speaker 1: or con For instance, you could be married for ten
Speaker 1: years and just say you know what, I want a
Speaker 1: post up? Now?
Speaker 2: Can you do that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Now, it takes two people to agree to it,
Speaker 3: just like a pre nup, but you can absolutely do it.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you think that we should
Speaker 1: talk about that we did in touch.
Speaker 2: That would be interesting for the listeners?
Speaker 3: I mean I think, look, I'm a big believer that
Speaker 3: also even before marriage, I think people should be educated
Speaker 3: about what the law is in the state that you
Speaker 3: have right. So to me, again this goes into like
Speaker 3: a marriage has so many rights and obligations and so
Speaker 3: many responsibilities, and I think before people enter into marriage,
Speaker 3: it's really important for people to at least even talk
Speaker 3: to a family lawyer and just understand like what happens
Speaker 3: in a marriage. Right. We're not taught that in school. Right.
Speaker 3: There's no books like what to expect when you're expecting, right, So,
Speaker 3: so you know, you don't have your like pediatrician that
Speaker 3: you're talking to like my baby's doing X, Y and Z,
Speaker 3: what does this mean?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: And so so to me, I think it's really important
Speaker 3: that people get educated. Like so, for example, I met
Speaker 3: a client yesterday, a young, beautiful, amazing person who is
Speaker 3: marrying somebody who is you know, has far more superior
Speaker 3: means than she does. And the question is is she
Speaker 3: going to give up her marriage, give up her work
Speaker 3: because she's in the entertainment world, and is she going
Speaker 3: to give up her work? And he's going to pay
Speaker 3: for everything? Right, And you know, we have these conversations
Speaker 3: like you know, if you're twenty six, twenty seven, twenty
Speaker 3: eight years old, twenty nine years old, and you give
Speaker 3: up your job, and let's assume even without an agreement,
Speaker 3: you're only married for ten years in California, Okay, you're
Speaker 3: only going to get support for one half the length
Speaker 3: of the marriage. So you're only gonnat alimony for five years.
Speaker 3: So if I'm twenty nine years old, and I'm really
Speaker 3: like at the thrust, like the beginning is of my career, right,
Speaker 3: like when I'm really starting to get my feet wet
Speaker 3: and I'm moving and I'm getting like good connections and
Speaker 3: I'm making some money, and all of a sudden, you're
Speaker 3: now twenty nine years old and you're married for ten years,
Speaker 3: and you now give up your job during that period
Speaker 3: of time. So now you're thirty nine years old, you're
Speaker 3: going to get five years of right, that's it. That's
Speaker 3: all you're going to get. In family law, you're going
Speaker 3: to get half of whatever's community whatever that is. That
Speaker 3: could be nothing, it could be a lot, right, depends
Speaker 3: on what the lifestyle is at that point. That person
Speaker 3: has to make sure that she becomes self supporting. It's
Speaker 3: forty four years old, right, and that's really hard when
Speaker 3: you've given up your thirties and you've given up all
Speaker 3: of this time where you get to like build your
Speaker 3: career and work and really enhance your income, and now
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you've given all of that up
Speaker 3: and you get five years of support. That's scary, and
Speaker 3: it's really scary for clients who come to me and
Speaker 3: they're like, well, I didn't know I shouldn't give up
Speaker 3: my job, right, No one ever told me not to
Speaker 3: give up or a job, or no one ever told
Speaker 3: me like that I'm only going to get five years
Speaker 3: of support. Maybe I should have come up with a
Speaker 3: post up or an agreement that says, you know, if
Speaker 3: we get divorced, I'm going to get support longer, because
Speaker 3: you want me to give up my job, right, you
Speaker 3: want me to travel the world with you, you want
Speaker 3: me to take care of the kids, whatever it is, right,
Speaker 3: And so I really believe that people should learn what
Speaker 3: the law is and whatever jurisdiction there is right and
Speaker 3: understand what it means for these type of big decisions,
Speaker 3: whether it's like moving out of the state of California,
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, if you give up your job,
Speaker 3: or what happens if you inherit money, or what happens
Speaker 3: if you go un title to a house, like you know,
Speaker 3: I have people come to me like, oh, well, I'm
Speaker 3: on title to house. They own half the house. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, okay, when did you go on title
Speaker 3: to house and they're like last year. I'm like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: we don't own half the house. We only own half
Speaker 3: the appreciation from that time forward, right, so it's not
Speaker 3: owning half the house. So it's These are important things
Speaker 3: like before marriage, to understand what the rights and responsibilities are.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe with the example I told you about
Speaker 3: the woman who's twenty nine giving up her job, maybe
Speaker 3: she doesn't give up her job fully and she still
Speaker 3: stays in the workforce and maybe she works not as hard,
Speaker 3: but she still stays in the workforce and keeps her
Speaker 3: connection and keeps her networking. So if God forbid, I'm
Speaker 3: knocking on wood, then anything happens, she can like resume
Speaker 3: back into the workforce, right, you know, and going back
Speaker 3: in there. Or maybe she comes up with an agreement
Speaker 3: that says, if you want me to give up my job,
Speaker 3: I'll do that, but you have to protect me on
Speaker 3: the financial side of this, right and maybe that's an
Speaker 3: agreement that we need to have a conversation about. But
Speaker 3: I think people really need to understand the rights and
Speaker 3: obligations in a marriage before before doing it. Like I
Speaker 3: have clients who come to me and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: we lived in New York and he wanted to move
Speaker 3: to California and now I have two kids, but we
Speaker 3: said we were only going to live here for a
Speaker 3: few months, and now I want to move back. And
Speaker 3: they're like, you don't get to move back. You're here
Speaker 3: with like the kids are in California now, like California
Speaker 3: is their home state. You know, if you're here for
Speaker 3: six months, boom, this is your home state. And they're like, wait,
Speaker 3: but he told me it was only temporary, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh. Yeah, so it's like, you know, these
Speaker 3: are things that are I know a lot of my
Speaker 3: clients will say to me like, I wish I knew
Speaker 3: this before I got married, right, I wish I had
Speaker 3: known this before I got married.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I completely agree.
Speaker 1: I always tell my listeners knowledge is power and totally
Speaker 1: just need to be completely educated and read on things
Speaker 1: and ask questions and if you're thinking about getting married
Speaker 1: any type of question is not a dumb question, and
Speaker 1: that's something that yeah, just ask an attorney and know
Speaker 1: what you're what you're getting yourself into.
Speaker 2: In other words, you know.
Speaker 3: But it has some big sacrifices, right, big consequences. So to me,
Speaker 3: it's really like you said, getting educated, and again I'm
Speaker 3: like giving you all this scary stuff. I really believe
Speaker 3: in a marriage. I really believe, like saying, yourriage is
Speaker 3: an amazing union, you know, I just believe in it
Speaker 3: that you have to understand what it means absolutely.
Speaker 2: I yep, I couldn't agree more. And I me too.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was important to have this conversation
Speaker 1: because I so many questions. Because also I want to
Speaker 1: see what I can do personally to avoid and what
Speaker 1: I can do better. And I feel like I'm on
Speaker 1: the right track. I think I learned from the first
Speaker 1: time around. Were you married for the first time? Oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, not even here. We started having issues maybe
Speaker 1: six months in. But you know what, I knew.
Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't the right thing for me to do.
Speaker 1: I just I thought maybe I can change him, you know,
Speaker 1: and and I take responsibility.
Speaker 3: But it did hurt.
Speaker 1: It was the most difficult thing I went through, but
Speaker 1: I learned from it, and like, I do believe in
Speaker 1: love and I believe in marriage, and I believe.
Speaker 2: In in in change.
Speaker 1: And I definitely am a different person now because of
Speaker 1: that situation and I'm able to be a good wife
Speaker 1: now because I learned from it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So it is what it is, but I do I
Speaker 1: did tell myself that I'm like, I wish I would
Speaker 1: have known more, you know, And now I'm like, uh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to read into everything, research it all.
Speaker 3: Yep. I think it's important, you know. And and it's
Speaker 3: so easy to talk to a lawyer, like I know,
Speaker 3: it's scary that you thought, like, oh, I'm calling a
Speaker 3: divorced lawyer, but if you think about it, like, you know,
Speaker 3: help me tell people call me and they're like, look,
Speaker 3: I'm getting married. Can you just walk me through quickly,
Speaker 3: like what happens and what I need to be thinking
Speaker 3: about and what can I can do and what it means.
Speaker 3: And I spend a little bit on the phone with them,
Speaker 3: and it's it's easy. It's a privileged conversation. No one
Speaker 3: knows about it. It's private, and there's nothing to lose.
Speaker 2: There's nothing to lose exactly.
Speaker 3: I see a lot of people like, you don't need
Speaker 3: an agreement, like, if this is your goals in a marriage,
Speaker 3: here's what to do and here's how you protect yourself.
Speaker 3: Then there's other people I'm like, well, if this is
Speaker 3: your goal, then you do need an agreement to modify
Speaker 3: the law and you need to start thinking about having
Speaker 3: to have a conversation with your fiance about it. Right,
Speaker 3: But at least that person's informed now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have.
Speaker 1: A question if a couple doesn't want to necessarily go
Speaker 1: through attorneys or something like that and create an agreement,
Speaker 1: can they do it like on a video and say, Hi,
Speaker 1: my name is blah blah blah, and I agree to this.
Speaker 2: Does that is that valid in court?
Speaker 3: No, you need to have like a written agreement. There's
Speaker 3: certain like rules.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, there's a lot of times we can
Speaker 3: you know, people can work as a mediator too, helping
Speaker 3: people navigate prenups. But it's really important to have like
Speaker 3: your own representation, your own advice. Like it's an important contract.
Speaker 3: It's like really one of the biggest financial decisions people make.
Speaker 3: So I would definitely do it with independent lawyers, do
Speaker 3: it legally guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, so my last question, it's a little bit of
Speaker 1: a nosy one, but I was very curious about this
Speaker 1: because and I'm just using them as an example, but
Speaker 1: I did hear in their prenup that, you know, jay
Speaker 1: Z and Beyonce.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true, guys.
Speaker 1: I got the information just like everyone else on social media,
Speaker 1: but that they had in their prenup that if he
Speaker 1: were to ever be in faithful that he would have
Speaker 1: to pay X amount of money or something like that.
Speaker 1: Is that Can you do that in a prenup? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no way. I mean, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: have to ask her because when I heard that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that sounds kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: No. I mean, look, in California. I can't tell you
Speaker 3: about every other jurisdiction, but in California we have been
Speaker 3: what's called a no FLT state policy, So people can
Speaker 3: get divorced and it makes no difference if you've had
Speaker 3: an affair or done you know, yeah, certain things, and
Speaker 3: so you can't do a prenup that says you have
Speaker 3: to pay more money if you're unfaithful or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, yeah, just wondering because I have a friend
Speaker 1: that is getting divorced and she was unfaithful, and he
Speaker 1: was going to try to use that. But I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, you're in California, I heard. But then that's
Speaker 1: why I was like, let me ask Christina to see
Speaker 1: if that's valid.
Speaker 3: Now, the only thing you can do is if let's
Speaker 3: assume you and I were married and I spent a
Speaker 3: significant amount of money on somebody else, right like hotel rooms, restaurants, gifts, vacations,
Speaker 3: you would have the right to ask me to reimburse
Speaker 3: the community for those expenses because it's a misappropriation of
Speaker 3: community money. But it doesn't other than a reimbursement to
Speaker 3: the community. There's no penalty in California for having an affair.
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, got it. Thank you for cleaning that up.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Okay, I mean, Christine, I've had an
Speaker 1: amazing conversation. I'm sure the listeners are going to learn
Speaker 1: a lot and very and enjoy the episode very much.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have if you'd like to
Speaker 1: share your website where people can find you if they
Speaker 1: have any other questions.
Speaker 3: I think it would just look at my name. I meant.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm a co chair of the matrimonial group
Speaker 3: at Blank Rome, so I think that would be the best.
Speaker 3: And it's like, I really, you know, it's I have
Speaker 3: to come off of this balance because I so believe
Speaker 3: in the concept of marriage. I think it's such an
Speaker 3: amazing partnership. Yeah, but I also think people need to
Speaker 3: be a little scared and be knowledgeable about it, you know,
Speaker 3: like you sometimes when you kind of put a little
Speaker 3: fear in people, they're like, oh wait, maybe I need
Speaker 3: to think about that, right, and maybe I need to
Speaker 3: understand that. And to me, that may motivate them to learn,
Speaker 3: and the more learning they have, the better it is.
Speaker 1: Yes, I completely agree, and there you guys, do you
Speaker 1: have it. If you're thinking about getting married, definitely ask questions.
Speaker 1: Do your research, speak to an attorney so that you
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're walking into, you know, Zachly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys, thank you so much for listening. Thank you
Speaker 1: Christina again for your time and for your knowledge. I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And I will catch you guys on the
Speaker 1: next episode of Cheeky's and Chill. I hope you guys
Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. This is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: the Micaeldura podcast Network. Follow us on Instagram at Michael
Speaker 1: Doura Podcasts and follow me Cheeky's That's c h i
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