1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Thanks for tuning in to Cheeky's and Chill, 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast, and I just wanted to start off 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: by saying, I know that there are a lot of 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: other podcasts out there, so I really appreciate you guys 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: choosing to listen to mine. 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: I love you guys very much. Okay, so today's episode is. 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: Going to be a really interesting one because we're going 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: to be talking about marriage, divorce, and prenups, which I 9 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: know are super controversial, and I'm bringing on a seasoned 10 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: divorce attorney. 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: Her name is Christina Royce. 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: She's the Los Angeles co chair of the matrimonial and 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: family practice at the law firm Blank Rome. She's also 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: one of Hollywood's go to divorce lawyers, so you know 15 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,319 Speaker 1: she has seen it all. And just a REMINDERR, this 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: is not legal advice and you should consult with a 17 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: qualified professional if you have any questions related to this episode. 18 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: So with that being said, Hi Christina, thank you so 19 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: much for being here. 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: I'm so excited to speak to you. How are you. 21 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 3: I'm doing well? How are you? 22 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm happy, a good day. 23 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,639 Speaker 1: I am so I have so many questions because I've 24 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: been divorced before and I'm now remarried and thank goodness, 25 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: happily married. But you just never know what can happen, 26 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So what is the biggest misconception about 27 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: divorce you think? 28 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, for I think for a 29 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: lot of people, it could feel like really scary, and 30 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: it can feel overwhelming, and it can feel like daunting, 31 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: and they feel like it's like the end of their life. 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of people realize that 33 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 3: sometimes that marriage is not the right situation, and then 34 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 3: later on they signed a real true happiness being outside 35 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 3: of a bad relationship. Like, look, you got remarried. You know, 36 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 3: you've found a different love in your life. But it's scary. 37 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 3: It's a scary process to go through it. Right, there's 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: a lot of unknowns relating to it. 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel like divorce can bring out 40 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 1: the worst in people. 41 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: That's definitely true. 42 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: Right. 43 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: I give a lot of people. I tell everybody, like 44 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: put post its everywhere, like be your best self through 45 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 3: this process. Be your best self through this process, because 46 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: it's really hard. People get gas lit, they're nervous, they're 47 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 3: financially scared. Right, it's really an overwhelming process. 48 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: It is. 49 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: I know my sister's going through it right now, and 50 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: even when I want to give her advice, I don't 51 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: even know what to say. I mean, because I feel 52 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: like they have children together, so they should have the 53 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: peace amongst themselves. But things are just getting so out 54 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: of hand, and all you can do as a big 55 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: sister is just step back and say, okay, like hopefully 56 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 1: let the attorneys that the professionals do you know, guide 57 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: you because it's difficult, Like they say, you know, you've 58 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: been with this person for so many years, but you 59 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: don't really know who they are until you're getting divorced. 60 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: I mean, have you seen really that there could be 61 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: a divorce that's like amicable, like really or does it 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 1: always have a very like nasty ending to it. 63 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 3: I would say that the majority of my cases have 64 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 3: a more amicable approach to their divorce. 65 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: Oh okay. 66 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: I think they realize that they have kids together and 67 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 3: are going to be in each other's lives. A lot 68 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: of them realize that the marriage may not be the 69 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: right you know, it may not be their right union. 70 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 3: But for the most part, and I maybe it's kind 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: of the clients that I get or the kind of 72 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 3: approach I take. We really try to take a more 73 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: amicable approach to the to the situation and work more collaboratively, 74 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: which I think it reduces fear. You know, there's not 75 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 3: a lot of surprises during the divorce case. We do 76 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: things in an orderly fashion so everyone feels comfortable through 77 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: the process. And I do think that that how we 78 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: approach the divorce case really helps them launch later on 79 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: as co parents. 80 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: I love that. 81 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: I love that and I appreciate that, and also I 82 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: think it also saves the client money, right because it 83 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: could get expensive, especially how expensive can a divorce be. 84 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 3: It can be expensive. I mean, it depends on the issue. Sometimes. 85 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 3: You know, I'm really good at I'm a big believer 86 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: in throwing money to a situation. If it gets certainty, 87 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 3: if it gets peace of mind, if it makes the 88 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 3: kids situation better, if it makes like getting rid of 89 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: the lawyers, if it means moving on, I think there's 90 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 3: value to that. And you know, obviously with degrees, but 91 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 3: I think there's value to paying money to the other 92 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: side as opposed to paying all this money to the 93 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 3: lawyers if you can get it done right. And there's 94 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: some gray areas in the family law. So it's nice 95 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 3: to just being able to like solve those differences by 96 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 3: you know, with having some financial resources being paid. 97 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 98 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: So do you feel now that you you know, you 99 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: said that you've been practicing for twenty plus years, do 100 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: you feel that a divorce is on the rise. 101 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 3: I think that I'll say this. I think my business 102 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: is definitely recession proof. It depends, you know, when I 103 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 3: think certain things are difficult. I think that really shines 104 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 3: in whether a marriage is the strong marriage or something 105 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: that maybe needs to move on. I think it's been 106 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: pretty consistent, you know. I think there's times where a 107 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 3: lot of people get divorced after their kids launch and 108 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: go to college, because maybe that's an easier time for 109 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 3: people to move on. I think there's times where people 110 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: get married and are married only for short periods and 111 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 3: it turned out it's not the right thing. Maybe they 112 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 3: have different views about children or things like that. So 113 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 3: I don't I can't tell you it's really on the 114 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: rise or not. 115 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: You know. 116 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 3: I also look and here here's my situation, and we 117 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 3: can talk about this that I've been married almost thirty years. 118 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: I very much believe in the in the concept of 119 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: marriage and the union of a marriage. I just look 120 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 3: at it maybe a little differently. Look, I believe marriage 121 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: really involves three different buckets, right. I think we need 122 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: our sexual intimacy and need connect and sexually, I think 123 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 3: we need to feel connected emotionally, right and have that 124 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: emotional connection. But I also think there needs to be 125 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: what I call financial intimacy, or I feel like people 126 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: need to feel like they can have these conversations about 127 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: finances that are sometimes difficult to have, Like, you know, 128 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 3: there's a lot of people come to me and they 129 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: don't know anything about like I don't know how much 130 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 3: we make, I don't know how much is in the bank. 131 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of like support I would get. 132 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 3: I don't know what kind of circumstances we live. I 133 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: know we live X, Y and Z, and we do 134 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 3: all these things, and that's a really like that's a 135 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: lack of partnership, right, And so I think having that 136 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: financial intimacy means that we're we need to be more 137 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 3: partners with one another as much as we need to 138 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 3: have like the sexual intimacy and the emotional intimacy, but 139 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 3: we need to have that connection financially. 140 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: I agree, And that's something that I learned this time around, 141 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: that it's not seeing it as yours in mine, it's ours. 142 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: We're a team, and it just changes everything again. Also, 143 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: couple's therapy has helped quite a bit, you know, because 144 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: it's two different people coming together and we have to 145 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: understand we're not going to think the same, we're not 146 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: going to have always the same opinion, and we have 147 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: to be okay with that. But how can we work 148 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: through it? You know, especially that the financial part and 149 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: aspect of marriage, it could be, like you said, very 150 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable sometimes conversation, but very necessary. 151 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 3: And look, there's a lot of people who I think 152 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: I think there is a lot of people who get 153 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 3: married later in life now, right, and they have already 154 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: have established businesses or assets, and they may be coming 155 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 3: into a marriage and not everything's going to be equal, right, 156 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: and because they already built up there a lot of 157 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 3: their net worth, and so they need to have those 158 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: conversations that not everything that I own as of the 159 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: data marriage becomes ours. Like maybe there's things that do 160 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: become ours, and there's things that are mine because I 161 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: either inherited assets or I really worked hard before marriage 162 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: to get that. But those are the things that people 163 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: need to have these conversations of. So so there's an understanding, 164 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 3: right yeah. My husband gets mad at me because I say, 165 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 3: your marriage is a lot like a business, right, Like 166 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 3: you know, we wouldn't you and I wouldn't go into 167 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: business together without saying, Okay, you know, what are you 168 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: going to contribute to the business? What am I going 169 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: to contribute to the business? How are we going to 170 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 3: handle that? And like the same should be true with 171 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: a marriage, like how are we going to handle all 172 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: these finances? And I think there's a there's a business 173 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 3: aspect of it. My husband's like, you're always a unromantic Chris. 174 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny that you say that because 175 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: I just watched I came across a video on social 176 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: media last night about a man speaking about his marriage 177 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: and he's he seems to be very successful man and 178 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: he's been married for fifteen plus years and he said 179 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: that his secret is approaching his marriage like his businesses, 180 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: sitting down on a weekly basis and talking about Okay, 181 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: what happened this weekend and what can you do? 182 00:08:58,360 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: What will I do? 183 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: And it's how would you go into a business meeting 184 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: do that in your marriage, and I had never seen 185 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: it like that, And now in this confirmation, now that 186 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: you're saying it, I'm like, Okay, that makes sense. 187 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's definitely some truth to that. Yeah, you know, 188 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: like you just have to have those but those are 189 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 3: some of its hard conversations and it's not easy, you know. 190 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you have to be open and able and 191 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: willing to have those uncomfortable conversations. And that's what I 192 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: learned before. It was like, it should just be easy, 193 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be so hard. The thing is is communication 194 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: is key. And I always tell you guys here on 195 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: the pod communication, especially in your relationship, in any relationship, 196 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: romantic business, et cetera. And Christina, do you have any 197 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: tips or advice on how to reduce the chance of 198 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: getting divorced? 199 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 3: Well, I think it goes back to something what we're 200 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: talking about. I think that it is really important that 201 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: we get better at communicating, that we understand that. I 202 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 3: think people come in with different needs, Like I may 203 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 3: be much more of a sensitive person. My husband may 204 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: be more of a reactive person. Like I have to 205 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 3: understand that he can be like that and I can 206 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: be different, Like we're genetically made up differently, right, And 207 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 3: so I think having those communications and talking about it 208 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 3: is important. I think it's really important not to be 209 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 3: reactive to things and to be more responsive to things. 210 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 3: I think therapy is a really helpful thing that if 211 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: people need really help and guidance on how to communicate, 212 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: I think that's helpful. I think sharing information, you know, 213 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 3: even if someone comes and says, let's assume they came 214 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 3: into the marriage with fifty million dollars, right, and they 215 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: had all this money before marriage, it's sometimes important to 216 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 3: share with the other side. Look, look, I came into 217 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 3: this marriage with these these assets. This is what I 218 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 3: came into. Like, that doesn't mean it's all going to 219 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: be ours, and I want us to understand that, right, Like, 220 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: that doesn't mean we can't do things and enjoy certain 221 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: things together. But as there's more transparency and accountability and conversation, 222 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 3: I think it really helps marriages. 223 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. 224 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: I mean, in which brings me to my next question, 225 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: which is about prenups. Do you believe do you recommend 226 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: highly recommend prenups? 227 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 3: So I hate the word prenup because I think everybody 228 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: has such a bad connotation about it. I wish we'all 229 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 3: called them partnership agreements because I think it as I stop, 230 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: a softer way of like we're entering into a partnership 231 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 3: with one another. Yeah. I think some are very necessary 232 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 3: because there are some really gray areas when it comes 233 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 3: to family law. And I think some people approach a 234 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 3: marriage like a business and they want to make sure 235 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: that if this business didn't work or this marriage didn't work, 236 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 3: that there's clear understanding of what's ours and what's going 237 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 3: to be shared and what's not ours. Right. So like, 238 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: for example, if I were to get married, if the 239 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 3: listim I was not married, and I got married to right, 240 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: I have built twenty eight years of building my law 241 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: practice right and building my reputation right. And then during 242 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: the marriage, I don't want there to be messiness about 243 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 3: whether the community got an interest in my law practice 244 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 3: or not. You know, I've worked really hard to get 245 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: to this point. Up to this point, So I may 246 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: want an agreement that says, look, during the marriage or 247 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 3: I may share all my income and all my income 248 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: can be community, but I want to make sure my 249 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 3: law practice will always be separate property and not and 250 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: have clear rules on it. 251 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: Right. 252 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's people who feel that way, and I 253 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 3: think an agreement can really be helpful that way. I 254 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 3: can also see there's a lot of times where I 255 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 3: will get people to come to me that are part 256 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: of a family enterprise. Like you know, their family has 257 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 3: built these big businesses for generations and they want to 258 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: make sure that those businesses stay separate property right, And 259 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 3: so there's these things in agreements that we can protect 260 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 3: on that. You know, in family law, we have what's 261 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: called alimony. You know, if you get separated, there's alimony 262 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: after a divorce. And California is very big on alimony. 263 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: It's a high high state, Okay. And some people are like, look, 264 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 3: I've been married before. I payin rat alimony to my 265 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 3: ex wife. I don't want to have to be in 266 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 3: a situation where I'm paying all this money again. And 267 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 3: they may want limitations on that right, and they may 268 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 3: want protections on that and those are things that are 269 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 3: common in agreements. Similarly, I have also done a number 270 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 3: of agreements where we are building more community for the 271 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 3: parties than there would be. So there can be a 272 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: big benefit to having an agreement. And so like, for example, 273 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 3: I'll give you an example, let's assim come someone comes 274 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 3: in and they're worth one hundred million dollars and they're 275 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 3: a big trust fund kid, right, and they're not working 276 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 3: during the marriage. They're just worth one hundred million dollars. Right. 277 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 3: They a marriage. And we've done a lot of agreements 278 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: where we've built some of that taken some of that money, 279 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 3: and we've created more community or wealth from it. Right. 280 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 3: And we've done more where we've can like build more 281 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 3: partnerships during the marriage. And what we do is we 282 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: call we transmute or we change the character of the money. 283 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of different things that we can 284 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: do in the agreement. Some can be very beneficial to 285 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 3: the other spouse, some can be less beneficial. I don't 286 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 3: really get involved in my colleagues, don't get involved in 287 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 3: agreements that are like so incided that it would be 288 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: a disaster and divorce. I mean, I just won't get 289 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 3: involved in those kinds of things. 290 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think just being fair and keeping 291 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: that in mind, I think that is a huge thing. 292 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: And I feel like I'm getting that sense from you, 293 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: and I love that where you're just fair and you're like, hey, 294 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: I want everything to just be peaceful. 295 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: There's no need to argue and. 296 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 3: Take away the gray area, like let's have it clean 297 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: and simple. And you know, I'm not somebody if like, 298 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: you know, you have to understand, if you're forty years 299 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 3: old and you're marrying a sixty year old who's already 300 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 3: established themselves and already gone through a divorce, they may 301 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: want something really simple, easy and clean. They may not 302 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 3: want another big, protracted divorce case. And you're forty years old. 303 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: That's something you have to understand with the person that 304 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: you're marrying at that point, right, And that makes sense. 305 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: I agree, I completely agree, because I just feel the 306 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: partnership agreements, you know, definitely bring a peace of mind. 307 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I have one, and he had 308 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: no issue. He said, that's totally fine. I get it, 309 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: didn't give me any issues. I made sure he got 310 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: his own attorney because obviously he had to. But I 311 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: wanted him to understand everything. And we are building together 312 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: and we have that very clear. In my past, I 313 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: did have, you know, someone that wasn't very happy about 314 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: that and felt like, oh, you don't trust me, and 315 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: why you know, what do you think I would take 316 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: something from you? And it's like, no, it's not that 317 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: it's just I learned from my mother, you know. She 318 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: was one that said, you you want to go into 319 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: a marriage with peace of mind and know that this 320 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: person is with you for the right reasons. And I 321 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: understood it right away, but there are some people that don't. 322 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: And also Christina, and if you could tell us a little 323 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: bit more about postnups. 324 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 3: So, post ups are agreements done during the marriage where 325 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: you're not getting divorced and you still want to stay married, 326 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 3: but you want to change the law or change what 327 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 3: your prenup is. Right. So there's times where people will 328 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 3: enter into a prenup and then they're like, you know, 329 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: over time, we've done this, or we've done this, or 330 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 3: we want to change this, and they can enter into 331 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 3: post nuptial agreements to modify it. There are times where 332 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: people enter in post nups because they sometimes don't like 333 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: how the marriage is feeling and they want more certainty 334 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: with respect to their finances. So I had a really 335 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 3: interesting case one time where the wife wanted very conservative investments. 336 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 3: She was more conservative, she was more fear based, she 337 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 3: was more scared, and a husband was like as risky 338 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: investments as you can imagine, Like I want to invest 339 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: in like coffees in Brazil, right, And so what we 340 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 3: did was we created a post up because this they 341 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 3: loved each other and they wanted to like stay married, 342 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: but they had these like fights about their investment decisions, right, 343 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: And so what we did was we created a pot 344 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 3: of community, a pot of separate for him, a pot 345 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 3: of separate for her. She was going to keep hers in. 346 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 3: You know, I don't want treasuries and you know, do 347 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 3: something really easy. He could do whatever he wanted. We 348 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: had our community that was still paying all the community 349 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 3: bills in their community lifestyles. And it was a situation 350 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 3: that we looked at the marriage both from me. They 351 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 3: loved each other and wanted to stay married, and they 352 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 3: had a you know, strong romantic relationship, but we looked 353 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 3: at it from a business standpoint. What made sense for 354 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 3: them both financially, And it cut out all this fighting 355 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 3: because now she's like, if everything goes to Helen and 356 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 3: Hadden Basket for him, that's on him, right, I don't 357 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 3: have to worry about that. And if something happened to me, 358 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: I have my little pot of money and I'm going 359 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 3: to be safe and I'm going to be secure with it. 360 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: So it works for them. 361 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 362 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 3: Right, and again I go back to as mad as 363 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 3: my husband can get it. If there's still a business 364 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 3: aspect of. 365 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: This, definitely, no, not now I could. 366 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: I see it completely and like it makes so much sense, 367 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: and I agree. I think that whatever's going to give 368 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: the other person a peace of mind and in that 369 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: way they'll be able. She's now, she's like, Okay, well 370 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: he has X amount of money in his little pot 371 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: and I'll do He could do as he pleases, and 372 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: I'm still gonna be able to love him totally. 373 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 3: And she didn't have to be freaking out at night 374 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 3: and roorring and. 375 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: Holding resentment r Yeah. Now, A cool question in regards 376 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: to it to the post up? Do you have to 377 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: have a prenup in order to have a post up 378 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: or con For instance, you could be married for ten 379 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: years and just say you know what, I want a 380 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: post up? Now? 381 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 2: Can you do that? 382 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? Now, it takes two people to agree to it, 383 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 3: just like a pre nup, but you can absolutely do it. 384 00:18:58,640 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: Okay. 385 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: Is there anything else that you think that we should 386 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: talk about that we did in touch. 387 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 2: That would be interesting for the listeners? 388 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,239 Speaker 3: I mean I think, look, I'm a big believer that 389 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 3: also even before marriage, I think people should be educated 390 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: about what the law is in the state that you 391 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 3: have right. So to me, again this goes into like 392 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: a marriage has so many rights and obligations and so 393 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 3: many responsibilities, and I think before people enter into marriage, 394 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 3: it's really important for people to at least even talk 395 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: to a family lawyer and just understand like what happens 396 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 3: in a marriage. Right. We're not taught that in school. Right. 397 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 3: There's no books like what to expect when you're expecting, right, So, 398 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: so you know, you don't have your like pediatrician that 399 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 3: you're talking to like my baby's doing X, Y and Z, 400 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 3: what does this mean? 401 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: Right? 402 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 3: And so so to me, I think it's really important 403 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 3: that people get educated. Like so, for example, I met 404 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 3: a client yesterday, a young, beautiful, amazing person who is 405 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: marrying somebody who is you know, has far more superior 406 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 3: means than she does. And the question is is she 407 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 3: going to give up her marriage, give up her work 408 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 3: because she's in the entertainment world, and is she going 409 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 3: to give up her work? And he's going to pay 410 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: for everything? Right, And you know, we have these conversations 411 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: like you know, if you're twenty six, twenty seven, twenty 412 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 3: eight years old, twenty nine years old, and you give 413 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 3: up your job, and let's assume even without an agreement, 414 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: you're only married for ten years in California, Okay, you're 415 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: only going to get support for one half the length 416 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 3: of the marriage. So you're only gonnat alimony for five years. 417 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: So if I'm twenty nine years old, and I'm really 418 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 3: like at the thrust, like the beginning is of my career, right, 419 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: like when I'm really starting to get my feet wet 420 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 3: and I'm moving and I'm getting like good connections and 421 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 3: I'm making some money, and all of a sudden, you're 422 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 3: now twenty nine years old and you're married for ten years, 423 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: and you now give up your job during that period 424 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 3: of time. So now you're thirty nine years old, you're 425 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 3: going to get five years of right, that's it. That's 426 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 3: all you're going to get. In family law, you're going 427 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 3: to get half of whatever's community whatever that is. That 428 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 3: could be nothing, it could be a lot, right, depends 429 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: on what the lifestyle is at that point. That person 430 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: has to make sure that she becomes self supporting. It's 431 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: forty four years old, right, and that's really hard when 432 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 3: you've given up your thirties and you've given up all 433 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 3: of this time where you get to like build your 434 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 3: career and work and really enhance your income, and now 435 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you've given all of that up 436 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,959 Speaker 3: and you get five years of support. That's scary, and 437 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 3: it's really scary for clients who come to me and 438 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 3: they're like, well, I didn't know I shouldn't give up 439 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 3: my job, right, No one ever told me not to 440 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 3: give up or a job, or no one ever told 441 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: me like that I'm only going to get five years 442 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 3: of support. Maybe I should have come up with a 443 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: post up or an agreement that says, you know, if 444 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 3: we get divorced, I'm going to get support longer, because 445 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 3: you want me to give up my job, right, you 446 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 3: want me to travel the world with you, you want 447 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 3: me to take care of the kids, whatever it is, right, 448 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 3: And so I really believe that people should learn what 449 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 3: the law is and whatever jurisdiction there is right and 450 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 3: understand what it means for these type of big decisions, 451 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: whether it's like moving out of the state of California, 452 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: whether it's you know, if you give up your job, 453 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 3: or what happens if you inherit money, or what happens 454 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: if you go un title to a house, like you know, 455 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 3: I have people come to me like, oh, well, I'm 456 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 3: on title to house. They own half the house. And 457 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 3: I'm like, well, okay, when did you go on title 458 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 3: to house and they're like last year. I'm like, no, no, no, no, 459 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 3: we don't own half the house. We only own half 460 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: the appreciation from that time forward, right, so it's not 461 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 3: owning half the house. So it's These are important things 462 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 3: like before marriage, to understand what the rights and responsibilities are. 463 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: You know, maybe with the example I told you about 464 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 3: the woman who's twenty nine giving up her job, maybe 465 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 3: she doesn't give up her job fully and she still 466 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: stays in the workforce and maybe she works not as hard, 467 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 3: but she still stays in the workforce and keeps her 468 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 3: connection and keeps her networking. So if God forbid, I'm 469 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 3: knocking on wood, then anything happens, she can like resume 470 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: back into the workforce, right, you know, and going back 471 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 3: in there. Or maybe she comes up with an agreement 472 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 3: that says, if you want me to give up my job, 473 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: I'll do that, but you have to protect me on 474 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: the financial side of this, right and maybe that's an 475 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 3: agreement that we need to have a conversation about. But 476 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 3: I think people really need to understand the rights and 477 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 3: obligations in a marriage before before doing it. Like I 478 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 3: have clients who come to me and they're like, well, 479 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 3: we lived in New York and he wanted to move 480 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: to California and now I have two kids, but we 481 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 3: said we were only going to live here for a 482 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 3: few months, and now I want to move back. And 483 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: they're like, you don't get to move back. You're here 484 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 3: with like the kids are in California now, like California 485 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 3: is their home state. You know, if you're here for 486 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 3: six months, boom, this is your home state. And they're like, wait, 487 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 3: but he told me it was only temporary, and I'm like, 488 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 3: oh my gosh. Yeah, so it's like, you know, these 489 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 3: are things that are I know a lot of my 490 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 3: clients will say to me like, I wish I knew 491 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 3: this before I got married, right, I wish I had 492 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 3: known this before I got married. 493 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I completely agree. 494 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: I always tell my listeners knowledge is power and totally 495 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: just need to be completely educated and read on things 496 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: and ask questions and if you're thinking about getting married 497 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: any type of question is not a dumb question, and 498 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: that's something that yeah, just ask an attorney and know 499 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: what you're what you're getting yourself into. 500 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 2: In other words, you know. 501 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 3: But it has some big sacrifices, right, big consequences. So to me, 502 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: it's really like you said, getting educated, and again I'm 503 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 3: like giving you all this scary stuff. I really believe 504 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 3: in a marriage. I really believe, like saying, yourriage is 505 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 3: an amazing union, you know, I just believe in it 506 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: that you have to understand what it means absolutely. 507 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: I yep, I couldn't agree more. And I me too. 508 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: I just thought it was important to have this conversation 509 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: because I so many questions. Because also I want to 510 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: see what I can do personally to avoid and what 511 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: I can do better. And I feel like I'm on 512 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: the right track. I think I learned from the first 513 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: time around. Were you married for the first time? Oh 514 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: my goodness, not even here. We started having issues maybe 515 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: six months in. But you know what, I knew. 516 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't the right thing for me to do. 517 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: I just I thought maybe I can change him, you know, 518 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: and and I take responsibility. 519 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 3: But it did hurt. 520 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: It was the most difficult thing I went through, but 521 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: I learned from it, and like, I do believe in 522 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: love and I believe in marriage, and I believe. 523 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: In in in change. 524 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: And I definitely am a different person now because of 525 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: that situation and I'm able to be a good wife 526 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: now because I learned from it. 527 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 3: You know. 528 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: So it is what it is, but I do I 529 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: did tell myself that I'm like, I wish I would 530 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: have known more, you know, And now I'm like, uh, 531 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to read into everything, research it all. 532 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 3: Yep. I think it's important, you know. And and it's 533 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: so easy to talk to a lawyer, like I know, 534 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: it's scary that you thought, like, oh, I'm calling a 535 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 3: divorced lawyer, but if you think about it, like, you know, 536 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 3: help me tell people call me and they're like, look, 537 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 3: I'm getting married. Can you just walk me through quickly, 538 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 3: like what happens and what I need to be thinking 539 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 3: about and what can I can do and what it means. 540 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 3: And I spend a little bit on the phone with them, 541 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 3: and it's it's easy. It's a privileged conversation. No one 542 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 3: knows about it. It's private, and there's nothing to lose. 543 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 2: There's nothing to lose exactly. 544 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 3: I see a lot of people like, you don't need 545 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 3: an agreement, like, if this is your goals in a marriage, 546 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 3: here's what to do and here's how you protect yourself. 547 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 3: Then there's other people I'm like, well, if this is 548 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 3: your goal, then you do need an agreement to modify 549 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 3: the law and you need to start thinking about having 550 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 3: to have a conversation with your fiance about it. Right, 551 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: But at least that person's informed now. 552 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I have. 553 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: A question if a couple doesn't want to necessarily go 554 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: through attorneys or something like that and create an agreement, 555 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: can they do it like on a video and say, Hi, 556 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: my name is blah blah blah, and I agree to this. 557 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: Does that is that valid in court? 558 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 3: No, you need to have like a written agreement. There's 559 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 3: certain like rules. 560 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 561 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 3: I mean, look, there's a lot of times we can 562 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 3: you know, people can work as a mediator too, helping 563 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 3: people navigate prenups. But it's really important to have like 564 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 3: your own representation, your own advice. Like it's an important contract. 565 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 3: It's like really one of the biggest financial decisions people make. 566 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 3: So I would definitely do it with independent lawyers, do 567 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 3: it legally guys. 568 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: Okay, so my last question, it's a little bit of 569 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: a nosy one, but I was very curious about this 570 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: because and I'm just using them as an example, but 571 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: I did hear in their prenup that, you know, jay 572 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: Z and Beyonce. 573 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: I don't know if this is true, guys. 574 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: I got the information just like everyone else on social media, 575 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: but that they had in their prenup that if he 576 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: were to ever be in faithful that he would have 577 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: to pay X amount of money or something like that. 578 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: Is that Can you do that in a prenup? Okay, 579 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, there's no way. I mean, I'm like, I 580 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: have to ask her because when I heard that, I'm like, 581 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: that sounds kind of crazy. 582 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: No. I mean, look, in California. I can't tell you 583 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 3: about every other jurisdiction, but in California we have been 584 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: what's called a no FLT state policy, So people can 585 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 3: get divorced and it makes no difference if you've had 586 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 3: an affair or done you know, yeah, certain things, and 587 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 3: so you can't do a prenup that says you have 588 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 3: to pay more money if you're unfaithful or anything like that. 589 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, yeah, just wondering because I have a friend 590 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: that is getting divorced and she was unfaithful, and he 591 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: was going to try to use that. But I'm like, 592 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: oh wait, you're in California, I heard. But then that's 593 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: why I was like, let me ask Christina to see 594 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: if that's valid. 595 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 3: Now, the only thing you can do is if let's 596 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 3: assume you and I were married and I spent a 597 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: significant amount of money on somebody else, right like hotel rooms, restaurants, gifts, vacations, 598 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 3: you would have the right to ask me to reimburse 599 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: the community for those expenses because it's a misappropriation of 600 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 3: community money. But it doesn't other than a reimbursement to 601 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 3: the community. There's no penalty in California for having an affair. 602 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, got it. Thank you for cleaning that up. 603 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Okay, I mean, Christine, I've had an 604 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: amazing conversation. I'm sure the listeners are going to learn 605 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: a lot and very and enjoy the episode very much. 606 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if you have if you'd like to 607 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: share your website where people can find you if they 608 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: have any other questions. 609 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 3: I think it would just look at my name. I meant. 610 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 3: You know, I'm a co chair of the matrimonial group 611 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: at Blank Rome, so I think that would be the best. 612 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 3: And it's like, I really, you know, it's I have 613 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 3: to come off of this balance because I so believe 614 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 3: in the concept of marriage. I think it's such an 615 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 3: amazing partnership. Yeah, but I also think people need to 616 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 3: be a little scared and be knowledgeable about it, you know, 617 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 3: like you sometimes when you kind of put a little 618 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: fear in people, they're like, oh wait, maybe I need 619 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 3: to think about that, right, and maybe I need to 620 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 3: understand that. And to me, that may motivate them to learn, 621 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 3: and the more learning they have, the better it is. 622 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: Yes, I completely agree, and there you guys, do you 623 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: have it. If you're thinking about getting married, definitely ask questions. 624 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: Do your research, speak to an attorney so that you 625 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: know exactly what you're walking into, you know, Zachly, Yeah, 626 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: you guys, thank you so much for listening. Thank you 627 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: Christina again for your time and for your knowledge. I 628 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: appreciate it. And I will catch you guys on the 629 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: next episode of Cheeky's and Chill. I hope you guys 630 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed this one. This is a production of iHeartRadio and 631 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: the Micaeldura podcast Network. Follow us on Instagram at Michael 632 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: Doura Podcasts and follow me Cheeky's That's c h i 633 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: q u i s. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 634 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 635 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: your favorite podcast