1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: Hey, my loves, I just want to tell you about 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: a new podcast called The Just Enough Family. It's the 3 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: story about the rise and fall of the Steinbergs, who 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: were once one of the richest families in America, and 5 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: this story is told through the eyes of the family's 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: most charismatic member, the fashion designer Liz Lang. Liz is 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: the niece of the infamous corporate raider Saul Steinberg, who 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: amassed a fortune before he was thirty years old, and 9 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: he brought his entire tight knit Jewish family along for 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: the ride. But the family fractures and loses everything after 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: Saul suffers a stroke and his little brother, Robert takes 12 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: control of the family business. Robert presides over the largest 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: insurance company collapse in American history. The Just Enough Family 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: is hosted by New Yorker's staff writer and best selling 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: author ri l Levy, who had unprecedented access to the 16 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: Steinbergs because of her very close friendship with Liz. Profound 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: intimacy over the top parties, staggering success, unexpected loss, and 18 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: shocking betrayals are woven together into a high profile family 19 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: therapy session. The conversations the Steinberg's have with Aril are startling, 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: frank and revealing and will leave you dying to find 21 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: out what happens next. Here's a clip from the Justino Family. 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: We're going to hear Liz and her little sister Jane 23 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: talk about how differently they experienced their childhoods. And we're 24 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: going to hear their parents talk about how differently they 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: thought of their daughters. 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: Did she treat you and Liz differently? 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 3: I don't feel like much was like demanded of me. 28 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 3: Everything was demanded of Liz. Everything you've got an A minus? 29 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: Why isn't it an A? You know? And I feel 30 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 3: like for me it was like. 31 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 4: You got to see in French, well that's not your thing. 32 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 4: You don't want to go to Hebrew school. Don't go 33 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,040 Speaker 4: to Heber school. You know. Liz was like you were 34 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 4: going to Hebrew school. 35 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: Well, Liz was very smart. 36 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 2: She was a voracious reader. 37 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean she also had great grades and. 38 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: She was always at the top of her class. We 39 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: never heard from Jane. 40 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 5: They kind of had us in two buckets. My sister 41 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 5: was the pretty one and I was a small one, 42 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 5: and so we kind of hated each other because I 43 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 5: bought into that theory and I thought my sister. Again, 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 5: it could be further from true, and she is my 45 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 5: best friend today, but I really I just agreed. I 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 5: thought she might have been like the dumbest person on earth. 47 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 5: That's what I thought, genuinely. So I felt like I 48 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 5: had nothing in common with this creature who was just 49 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 5: obviously so stupid but so beautiful, this hot, dim way. 50 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: I feel like I mentally wasn't there. I would play 51 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 3: with my food, I would go to the bathroom a 52 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 3: million times during meals to escape. I played with candle 53 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 3: wax on the table like I did anything I possibly 54 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: could to not be mentally present. Liz has different memories 55 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 3: than I do, because I just was like, I don't want. 56 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 6: To be here. 57 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 4: She was literally like eyes wide, like feed me, give 58 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 4: me more? Like what like like on a Saturday, she 59 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 4: would walk Madison Avenue with my parents and go have 60 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 4: lunch at the jewelry store at fred Layton. 61 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: So you didn't go to Uncle Marie's for these brunches. 62 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 5: Never in my entire life. Like I looked at what 63 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 5: they had and I liked it. Jane looked at what 64 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 5: they had and she hated it. She was not looking 65 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 5: to replicate it. And I was thinking if I'm super lucky, 66 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 5: I'll grow up and live this lifestyle. So I kind 67 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 5: of liked I always saw it if I went along 68 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 5: with them on Saturdays, you never know, a little bubble 69 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 5: might come my way, a little dress might come away, 70 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 5: and she to her again, I really mean this to 71 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 5: her credit just didn't care. She'd be like, the price 72 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 5: is too high. I mean, I don't know if that's 73 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 5: what the word she'd use, but I know that was 74 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 5: what was in her head. 75 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: Whereas you were like a little hooker. 76 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 5: I was a hooker's hooker. Jane used to have this 77 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 5: joke about me where she'd be like, ouch does fire 78 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 5: still burn? 79 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 4: Ouch? 80 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 5: Does fire still burn? I had this whole thing. I 81 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 5: was always desperately trying to make our family kind of 82 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 5: what I wanted it to be, what I thought the 83 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 5: world thought it was. I was still trying to like 84 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 5: square that with like the actual experience. And Jane, I 85 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 5: think I saw from like a very young age, this 86 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 5: is horrible. It's not fun. And I was somehow like 87 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 5: can I get more? Can I get one? I don't know. 88 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 5: I was just always wanting to be attached to the family. 89 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 6: The financial freedom was great. What was bad about it 90 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 6: was that the money became too important. I used to 91 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 6: say to Bobby, we have all form and no content. 92 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 6: I don't need to be this rich. 93 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: Really, yeah, because why what was bad about being so rich? 94 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 6: It was just a bad things. They were too many things. 95 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 5: So like I always had like a big, fancy bedroom 96 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 5: decorated by some famous decorator, and I never liked it 97 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 5: that much. Not because I don't like fancy things. I 98 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 5: love fancy things. It was because it just wasn't really 99 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 5: my little girl taste. It just wouldn't be my little 100 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 5: girl taste. And whatever my little girl taste was was 101 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 5: considered taking not okay, not allowed. And again I'm not complaining. 102 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 5: It's not sad. It's just like at the time, like 103 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 5: I had this best friendly son. And Lisa's mother was 104 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 5: divorced in the nineteen seventies. It wasn't that common, Like 105 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 5: I didn't know a lot of people at divorced parents. 106 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's a big deal. 107 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 5: It was a big d They were divorced, and looking 108 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 5: back on it, I'm sure her mother was kind of struggling. 109 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 5: They lived in a one bedroom apartment and Lisa's mother 110 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 5: slept in the living room and gave Lisa the bedroom, 111 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 5: and they were like so tight Lisa in her mother 112 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 5: because there was nobody else. It was just Lisa and 113 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 5: her mother in this tiny little apartment. And I thought 114 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 5: that was the coolest. That was my gold standard, Like 115 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 5: I just wanted Lisa's room. Sometimes Lisa got to sleep 116 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 5: in the pull out couch in the living room and 117 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 5: her mom slept in the bedroom. Sometimes they might have 118 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: even slept together. In my house, everything was I was 119 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 5: in my room, my sister Jane was in her room, 120 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 5: My parents were way down the hallway in their room. 121 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 5: If I woke up in the middle of the night, 122 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 5: this is not poor little retch girls, just the way 123 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 5: it was. If I were to be scared or set 124 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 5: in the mill of the night, I wouldn't have walked 125 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 5: down the hallway to my parents room. A housekeeper would 126 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 5: have been the person that I would have gone to 127 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 5: to go back to that just enough thing. I think 128 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 5: that was all just part of the craziness and the 129 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 5: gas lighting and why I would just be easier if 130 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 5: we all if we were just part of that just 131 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 5: enough family. 132 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 2: Well, and it sounds like she had some fantasies about 133 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: that too, because she said to me, you know, the 134 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 2: money got too important. There was just too much stuff. 135 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: We had too many things. She told me that she 136 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: once said to your father, we're all form and no content, 137 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 2: or we're all form and no substance. 138 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 5: I think she used to think that. I think they 139 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 5: used to talk about that. I think that was a mantra. 140 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 4: I think you're right, well, what does that mean. 141 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 5: I don't know that we've got all the trappings, but 142 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 5: I think maybe it was what I sense. We have 143 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 5: all the trappings, but things just aren't that good, like 144 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 5: I know, and again that sounds like I'm not saying 145 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 5: like the trappings were good. They were fun, but somehow 146 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 5: things were just off the rails. Things just always felt 147 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 5: so out of control. And I know it's like, well, 148 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 5: what do you mean? But it just felt like we 149 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 5: were just hurtling and speeding towards something bad. Like I 150 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 5: remember one of their friends. Weren't said about my parents shopping. 151 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 5: I mean, even a train has to stop sometimes. Shut up, 152 00:06:59,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 5: Shut up. 153 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: Listen to The justin Up Family, available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 154 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you're hearing me now. Boom show la La boom, 155 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: show la La boom boom, show la La, show 156 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 5: La la show La La shall Laga shout black.