Speaker 1: Episode to seventy six. Which debt should you pay off? First?
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Brugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 1: save money, embrace simplicity, rice, and liberate your life. Here
Speaker 1: your host Jen and Jill m mmmm, Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill,
Speaker 1: and today we are talking about systems, logistics, plans. I
Speaker 1: don't know, however, you want to pay off your debt,
Speaker 1: the order in which you should pay off your debt.
Speaker 1: There are standards and then there are nuances where you
Speaker 1: can change it up. So we're going to go both
Speaker 1: into the standard advice and then also give you tips
Speaker 1: for customizing it because most of the time what's best
Speaker 1: for you is going to be somewhere in the middle
Speaker 1: of the standard advice. Yeah, we might know we want
Speaker 1: to tackle our debt, we want to pay it off,
Speaker 1: but then we start to look at our debt and say, well, okay,
Speaker 1: what's the strategy. How should I have best strategy? If
Speaker 1: we have more than one debt, which many people do,
Speaker 1: you need to kind of think about how in what
Speaker 1: order am I going to tackle this, What's what's my
Speaker 1: game plan? And beyond. So we're here to talk about that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we think too much about it and are paralyzed
Speaker 1: from starting and so hopefully it can also be on
Speaker 1: the other end of that spectrum, helpful to say, hey,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. This doesn't matter as much as everyone
Speaker 1: says it does, and you can change it up here. Oh,
Speaker 1: speaking of debt, this episode is brought to us by
Speaker 1: Debt Free Stories. Who's debt Free Stories? Your debt Free Stories?
Speaker 1: Oh I'm so excited I did to keep announcing. Our
Speaker 1: new YouTube series is live and releasing weekly through February.
Speaker 1: That's February three, but you know YouTube, those videos will
Speaker 1: stay up there even if you're listening beyond February. So
Speaker 1: you all have continually asked us for more debt Free
Speaker 1: Story interviews and we are delivering on that in this
Speaker 1: ten episode series with listeners just like you, who have
Speaker 1: paid off debt in various ways and from a variety
Speaker 1: of backgrounds. We hope you'll find it as inspirational as
Speaker 1: we did. These were so fun and their video recorded
Speaker 1: so you can see us see the person talking. Head
Speaker 1: to YouTube dot com slash Frugal Friends to catch our
Speaker 1: first episode ever, and be sure to subscribe and turn
Speaker 1: on notifications to get updated when every episode drops. Yes,
Speaker 1: can you tell we're like so over the moon about this.
Speaker 1: So we just at the time of this recording, have
Speaker 1: have recorded the first few and they are fantastic. They
Speaker 1: are the perfect mix of practical advice and inspirational story
Speaker 1: from listeners just like you, from normal people. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what makes the story so special is that
Speaker 1: these are not people who claim to be experts or
Speaker 1: who claim to do anything particularly exceptionally. They recognize too
Speaker 1: that I'm a normal person and this is how I
Speaker 1: did it, and and that to me is inspiring the
Speaker 1: most inspiring. So I hope that they help you and
Speaker 1: inspire you as much as they have inspired us recording them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, they might consider themselves normal people, but
Speaker 1: they're all so amazing. I don't think I realized, I don't.
Speaker 1: Our listenership is well very cool. I mean maybe they're
Speaker 1: a little bias, but also super why eys accomplished, talented,
Speaker 1: skilled again, variety of backgrounds like types of jobs. It
Speaker 1: was like really eye opening to see the like, who
Speaker 1: all is tuning into this podcast? And you all are
Speaker 1: some You're You're the cream of the crop out there.
Speaker 1: You are fantastic people, so and we have been honored
Speaker 1: that you have been willing to share your stories with us,
Speaker 1: and we're honored to share them. So definitely subscribe to
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Speaker 1: get all of the debt free stories as they are
Speaker 1: released throughout the rest of the month in February. And
Speaker 1: we're only going to keep doing it if it's as success.
Speaker 1: So if you like it, let us know that it's
Speaker 1: a success by subscribing and hitting the notification button, and
Speaker 1: then we'll keep doing it. We'll do and we'll do
Speaker 1: a second season. Yes, so let's get into which debt
Speaker 1: you should pay off first. If you are interested in
Speaker 1: paying off your debt this year, then there are a
Speaker 1: few other episodes that we have. I would say there's
Speaker 1: probably at least a good twenty if not more episodes
Speaker 1: that where we just talk about the logistics of paying
Speaker 1: off debt and how to do it faster. Obviously, though
Speaker 1: the talking about the debt strategy, the debt payoff strategy
Speaker 1: is a small portion of it. The bigger picture in
Speaker 1: paying off debt is the small things that you do
Speaker 1: every day. It's the choosing to stick to a meal
Speaker 1: plan and a grocery list. It's choosing to say no to,
Speaker 1: you know, spending on things that you don't value, or
Speaker 1: spending on maybe not spending on things you do value
Speaker 1: in order to get something you value more. So it's
Speaker 1: stuff like that, But it is really helpful to have
Speaker 1: these like overviews of basic debt payoff topics. And so
Speaker 1: episode one seventy one we talked about should you focus
Speaker 1: on paying down debt right now? Where we kind of
Speaker 1: compare it to other financial goals. You could that paying
Speaker 1: off debt could be competing with UH And then an
Speaker 1: episode one eight we talked about why paying off debt
Speaker 1: is important and attainable. So if it's not your primary goal,
Speaker 1: what are the circumstances in which it should be, and
Speaker 1: why it's more attainable than you think. Maybe you're not
Speaker 1: setting it as your primary goal because you don't think
Speaker 1: it's possible. So we kind of debunked that myth in
Speaker 1: this in episode one eight. But for two seventy six,
Speaker 1: we're talking about debt pay off order a hotly debated topic,
Speaker 1: and there's so many things to debate apparently, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: we don't have much to debate in personal finance because
Speaker 1: so much of it is very standard advice, and so
Speaker 1: we choose things like this, the debate should I or
Speaker 1: shouldn't I pay off my mortgage early? And voy people
Speaker 1: get heated. Yeah, it's it's crazy. So so first we're
Speaker 1: going to cover in this first article UM from Investor
Speaker 1: PD of the debt avalanche versus the debt snowball. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about the difference because these are the most
Speaker 1: these are the standard ways to pay off debt in
Speaker 1: an accelerated way, So let's just cover them. Get a foundation,
Speaker 1: talk about the pros and cons, and then in the
Speaker 1: next article we're gonna go to nuances on how you
Speaker 1: can customize it. M what did you What do you
Speaker 1: think about the debt avalanche first debt snowball debate? Where
Speaker 1: are you? I think I would lean more towards the
Speaker 1: logical side of things, attacking the interest more than the
Speaker 1: emotional side that might be more closely tethered with the
Speaker 1: debt snowball. I know you're about to explain the two
Speaker 1: jen and so our listeners will understand more. But I
Speaker 1: think I would lean more towards the avalanche if I
Speaker 1: were to be going back and doing this all over again.
Speaker 1: But Lord Willing, I won't be Lord Willing. This dead
Speaker 1: freedom will stick. Lord Willing, all right, So yes, I
Speaker 1: will cover what they are and then Jill is going
Speaker 1: to cover like pros and cons. So let's start with
Speaker 1: the debt avalanche. I to enjoy the debt avalanche I,
Speaker 1: but honestly, ultimately I prefer combination. We'll get into that later.
Speaker 1: But so the debt avalanche, for those who are unfamiliar,
Speaker 1: involves making minimum payments on all your outstand the outstanding accounts,
Speaker 1: so all of your debts, and then using any remaining
Speaker 1: money that you've earmarked for debt to pay off the
Speaker 1: bill with the highest interest rate. So how you would
Speaker 1: do this is you would list all of your debts
Speaker 1: with from UH and the prioritization would go from highest
Speaker 1: interest rate too low list interest rate. And this is
Speaker 1: assuming these are all fixed interest rate. If you have
Speaker 1: a variable, then that order obviously can change as the
Speaker 1: variable interest changes as it varies, but at a at
Speaker 1: a moment in time, whatever the interest rate is, we're
Speaker 1: listing from highest also called a p R annual percentage
Speaker 1: rate to lowest. So their example, they use a ten
Speaker 1: thousand dollar debt on a credit card at eighteen point
Speaker 1: nine nine. That's the first, Uh, the nine thousand car
Speaker 1: loan with a three percent interest rate. Good for them,
Speaker 1: that's no, they don't have it listed out. So the
Speaker 1: next one would be their fifteen thousand dollar student loan
Speaker 1: at four and a half, and then would be their
Speaker 1: nine thousand dollar car loan at a three percent interest rate.
Speaker 1: So that that is their list of debts in order
Speaker 1: of you know, we got like nineteen four and a
Speaker 1: half three, and that is the percent, and that is
Speaker 1: the order in which you would pay them off, not
Speaker 1: paying attention to the amount on the loan. Yeah, does
Speaker 1: that cover it? Yeah? I think that that. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: you're you're prioritizing which one has the highest interest rates.
Speaker 1: Getting them out of the way is so that you're
Speaker 1: not paying as much towards the interest, And that would
Speaker 1: be the pro of this approach is that you're going
Speaker 1: to save hundreds, if not thousands, depending on how big
Speaker 1: of loans or debt you're in on paying it off
Speaker 1: more quickly, throwing more money at that principle, and less
Speaker 1: money just at the minimum payments, which is largely going
Speaker 1: to the interest. So the argument here is that you're
Speaker 1: going to pay less money and interest over time when
Speaker 1: you tackle it this way, rather than only focusing on
Speaker 1: the amount of each loan. The other thing that the
Speaker 1: article references, and I'll get your take on this to Jenna,
Speaker 1: didn't totally makes sense to me. But they were referencing
Speaker 1: a pro of the debt avalanche method being that it
Speaker 1: can reduce the amount of time it takes to pay
Speaker 1: off the debt. But I don't see why that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like just across the board, Like if you're going
Speaker 1: hard at debt payoff, you're just reducing the time across
Speaker 1: the board. Don't know why this method would reduce it
Speaker 1: more than another. Yeah, because it lessens the amount of
Speaker 1: money you're paying. Theoretically, it lessens the amount of time
Speaker 1: because if you have the same money to pay off debt,
Speaker 1: if you're paying off the higher interest rate first and
Speaker 1: saving money, than theoretically you are saving time as well.
Speaker 1: But I've done I've done various calculations with debt snowball
Speaker 1: versu debt avalanche, and I mean ten times out attend
Speaker 1: the debt avalanche does save you money for the amount
Speaker 1: of time for that money. It's it's usually just maybe
Speaker 1: a month or two, honestly, like it's not a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they only referenced a few months as well, But
Speaker 1: I mean, when you get close to the end of
Speaker 1: debt payoff, weeks and days means something to you. So
Speaker 1: and then some of the cons to the debt avalanche
Speaker 1: that they reference is that it can take maybe a
Speaker 1: greater degree of discipline and commitment to make more than
Speaker 1: the minimum payments. One of the one of the things
Speaker 1: that is referenced by both those who really rally for
Speaker 1: the snowball or the avalanche is that sometimes your debts
Speaker 1: that are larger in amount and you're just chipping away
Speaker 1: at them, you don't have all of the emotional kind
Speaker 1: of motivation behind it to be paying it off, and
Speaker 1: so it requires kind of this consistency rather than like
Speaker 1: a win here and there. So if that's you, then
Speaker 1: that might be viewed as a con But and then
Speaker 1: it's also recognizing that it requires a conser just an
Speaker 1: amount of discretionary income, meaning extra money to throw at
Speaker 1: this debt. I would argue that that's any debt payoff scenario,
Speaker 1: like it requires you to set aside more money to
Speaker 1: throw at it, so that many. That's just a con
Speaker 1: of debt payoff in general. Yeah, I I love the
Speaker 1: avalanche and I don't think I don't think either method
Speaker 1: has as many like cons or they're they're very they're
Speaker 1: being very generous on on what they're considering pros and cons.
Speaker 1: But yeah, if you want to optimize your if you're
Speaker 1: a very math oriented person, in the numbers are really
Speaker 1: what motivate you. The debt avalanche system is going to
Speaker 1: motivate you more than the debt snowball because every dollar
Speaker 1: you pay off essentially counts for a little bit more
Speaker 1: money you have moving forward, and honestly, like so does
Speaker 1: the debt snowball. So it's just like a when we
Speaker 1: get into the nuances and and really talk about how
Speaker 1: we can create a hybrid version of these, that's where
Speaker 1: I get really excited. But for what it's worth face value,
Speaker 1: this is the debt avalage. Next is the debt snowball,
Speaker 1: which involves listing your debts out from smallest amount first
Speaker 1: two largest amount, and I know some people will do
Speaker 1: it where they will Like in student loans, there are
Speaker 1: typically multiple loans within a student loan account. Um Like
Speaker 1: I know I had probably two loans per year. Uh,
Speaker 1: so they will either count that as one or they
Speaker 1: will separate it out each one in their debt snowball
Speaker 1: again up to you whatever makes you feel good. So
Speaker 1: but it's listing it out from smallest to largest and
Speaker 1: essentially tackling the easy jobs. First we tackle the smallest
Speaker 1: debt and then work up to the largest debt, so
Speaker 1: that by the time you get to the largest debt,
Speaker 1: you have built so much amountmentum, so much self confidence
Speaker 1: that you are able to finish quickly, finish with the
Speaker 1: same momentum. And it is a great psychological like method
Speaker 1: for paying off debt because, like what Jill said, paying
Speaker 1: off debt is just hard. It doesn't matter which method
Speaker 1: you're choosing, it is hard. So, for their example, using
Speaker 1: the same debts as we used above, and they would
Speaker 1: um start with the nine thousand dollar car loan because
Speaker 1: it is the smallest debt even though it's the smallest
Speaker 1: interest rate, then go to the ten thousand dollar credit
Speaker 1: card debt, and then to the fifteen thousand dollar student loan,
Speaker 1: so they essentially are paying off they're keeping that nineteen
Speaker 1: percent a pr credit card around for however long it
Speaker 1: takes to pay off the car Loan, and that that
Speaker 1: may not sit well with a lot of people because
Speaker 1: these debts are so close together, so we're talking nine thousand,
Speaker 1: ten thousand, fifteen thousand. I think where the debt snowball
Speaker 1: very much shines is when you've got your nine year,
Speaker 1: ten year, fifteen, but you've also got a couple of
Speaker 1: credit cards with maybe like a thousand here, nine hundred there, uh,
Speaker 1: stuff like that, because that really cleans out the debt,
Speaker 1: so to speak. So anybody who's decluttered or simplified knows
Speaker 1: that when you declutter, you just feel better, You feel
Speaker 1: better about things. To get out all the clutter of
Speaker 1: your finances is a very similar feeling. When you're staring
Speaker 1: down ten different debts and you're able to clear out four, five,
Speaker 1: six of those with relative speed, then that can be
Speaker 1: super motivating just it feels very good. So so that's
Speaker 1: where the debt snowball really shines is in those situations.
Speaker 1: One of the things that this article didn't seem to
Speaker 1: touch on, but has been my understanding of the debt
Speaker 1: snowball is not just getting rid of your lowest amount
Speaker 1: debts first, but that there's this like compounding nature to
Speaker 1: the snowball. This has been my understanding with with this
Speaker 1: method is that you continue making minimum payments on all
Speaker 1: of your other debts while throwing extra as much as
Speaker 1: you can to the lowest amount of debt. And maybe
Speaker 1: that's budgeted. It doesn't have to be willy nilly. So
Speaker 1: let's say you know, this is a certain amount you're
Speaker 1: able to put monthly towards that lowest amount debt. Then
Speaker 1: once that's tackled, you add that to you the next debt,
Speaker 1: the next lowest amount debt, and add that on to
Speaker 1: the minimum payments, so that each time you're kind of
Speaker 1: increasing the amount of debt you're able to pay towards
Speaker 1: the next debt because it's what you're already used to
Speaker 1: having paid, if that's making sense, And this article didn't
Speaker 1: reference that, but I feel like that's part of even
Speaker 1: like the imagery of the snowball is as it rolls
Speaker 1: in the snow, the snowball is getting bigger and bigger,
Speaker 1: You're you're putting larger chunks of money towards the next debt,
Speaker 1: which is part of what makes it helpful to go
Speaker 1: at it in order of amounts, because then by the
Speaker 1: time you get to the highest loan amount, you've got
Speaker 1: the most money to put towards it because you're kind
Speaker 1: of compounding the payments towards it. Yeah, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: explained that, Jill, because it does give you the snowball,
Speaker 1: does give you the best visual representation of that in
Speaker 1: that method, because the bigger the debt, it's the bigger
Speaker 1: the amount of money you have to put towards it.
Speaker 1: But the same thing happens in the avalanche. It's just
Speaker 1: that the amount of the debts may vary on both methods.
Speaker 1: You are paying your minimum on every single debt. It's
Speaker 1: just in when you budget and maybe you have you
Speaker 1: have five hundred dollars a month to put towards debt.
Speaker 1: When you add up all of your minimums, that adds
Speaker 1: up to four hundred dollars. So it's where do I
Speaker 1: put this extra hundred That is the That's what these
Speaker 1: methods are really explaining there or helping you prioritize, is
Speaker 1: where does that extra margin go. In the debt avalanche,
Speaker 1: that extra margin would go to the highest interest rate loan,
Speaker 1: and then once you pay that off and maybe your minimums,
Speaker 1: you're getting rid of a credit card, so your minimums
Speaker 1: now three fifty. Now you have a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: of margin. That hundred fifty now goes to the second
Speaker 1: highest interest rate. With the snowball, you our margin goes
Speaker 1: to the smallest amount debt. When you pay that off,
Speaker 1: then you have three fifty for minimums hundred fifty in margin,
Speaker 1: that hundred fifty goes to the second smallest debt. So
Speaker 1: you're doing the same thing in both methods. I think
Speaker 1: you get a little bit more of a visual gratification
Speaker 1: when you are doing the snowball, but it's happening in
Speaker 1: the avalanche as well. Nice yeah, yeah, So as far
Speaker 1: as pros and cons, I mean we've said it already,
Speaker 1: but with the snowball, it's a lot more of that
Speaker 1: emotional side, the motivational side. When we can get these
Speaker 1: quick wins, it can help us to keep going, which
Speaker 1: I don't want to downplay there. There is a big
Speaker 1: part to debt payoff that has to do with our mental,
Speaker 1: emotional or relational physical state. And so if seeing an
Speaker 1: accomplishment is going to be a big motivator help keyep
Speaker 1: you on track, then then the snowball is worth considering. Again,
Speaker 1: Like Jen said, if you're a little bit more logical,
Speaker 1: and it's the numbers game, and that's what's going to
Speaker 1: speak to you and keep you on track. Then then
Speaker 1: then it might be the avalanche that you want to
Speaker 1: move towards. Certainly with the snowball it can be easy
Speaker 1: to implement as well. I mean, but both of these
Speaker 1: are either one is taking a quick look at the
Speaker 1: numbers and deciding which way you want to tackle it.
Speaker 1: But then, of course the con of the snowball is
Speaker 1: that you could incur more interest or yeah, if if
Speaker 1: it takes longer, if you end up paying a high
Speaker 1: interest loan later because it's a greater dollar amount, then
Speaker 1: obviously you're going to pay more in interest, and so
Speaker 1: in that regard, it could take longer to become debt free.
Speaker 1: But again, as we said, maybe months different from each other,
Speaker 1: not a large amount of time in the grand scheme
Speaker 1: of things, and usually not thousands of dollars easier either,
Speaker 1: it's usually in the hundreds. Which whatever keeps you motivated
Speaker 1: to pay off the debt faster, it's going to be
Speaker 1: a wash, honestly, whether you if the snowball keeps you motivated.
Speaker 1: And this comes into they have a few questions to
Speaker 1: help you decide at the end of this article, and
Speaker 1: one of them is which is better? And the one
Speaker 1: that's better is the one that you're going to stick with,
Speaker 1: because if the psychological accomplishment side is going to do
Speaker 1: more for you than the debt avalanche or the simplifying
Speaker 1: minimizing the number of debts you have is going to
Speaker 1: help you more, then and help you stick to it,
Speaker 1: that one is better for you. And there's absolutely nothing
Speaker 1: like inferior about it. It is worth paying a couple
Speaker 1: extra hundred dollars to stick with it and to finish it,
Speaker 1: then to do it the quote unquote right way and
Speaker 1: not be able to stick with it as long. So
Speaker 1: the one that's better for you is the one you
Speaker 1: feel best about and honestly customizing it in the way
Speaker 1: that makes you feel even better about it. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: then of course there's the additional questions of well, what
Speaker 1: else should I be doing with my money? Is it
Speaker 1: better to pay off the debt or save or invest
Speaker 1: or fill in the blank. And we've answered that in
Speaker 1: a previous podcast, episode two, which you can feel free
Speaker 1: to head back to episode one seventy one. What should
Speaker 1: you focus on in debt pay off. But just to
Speaker 1: cover that briefly because it's also mentioned in this article. Specifically,
Speaker 1: they're asking the question, is it better to put money
Speaker 1: in savings or pay off debt? I think they're using
Speaker 1: the term savings interchangeably with investing. We know they're two
Speaker 1: different things. But of course paying off debt versus just
Speaker 1: dashing money away not making any level of interest. Paying
Speaker 1: off debt's going to be far better. But if we're
Speaker 1: talking about investing that money, you're putting it into a
Speaker 1: high yield savings account, you want to look at percentage
Speaker 1: rates of the interest rates, right, what are you earning
Speaker 1: on that money versus what are you going to owe
Speaker 1: an interest? And so certainly it can be worthwhile to
Speaker 1: consider investing, especially investing for retirement congruent to in alongside
Speaker 1: paying off debt, especially when our debt interest the interest
Speaker 1: rate on the debt is lower than what we're earning
Speaker 1: on interest in those investment accounts. So certainly we're again
Speaker 1: it's going to be up to you as an individual
Speaker 1: for what feels good for you. But if you're an
Speaker 1: average income earner, you really are going to want to
Speaker 1: consider investing as early as possible that's just our little,
Speaker 1: our little hot take, not that hope to take. I'm
Speaker 1: just make your make up your own mind. But but
Speaker 1: then of course it's worth saying with savings, yes, have
Speaker 1: an emergency fund, so in alongside paying off debt, we
Speaker 1: do want to have some money stashed away for medical
Speaker 1: or other emergencies as they rise, So don't leave yourself
Speaker 1: high and dry. So a few things to consider their
Speaker 1: retirement emergency savings alongside debt payoff. Yeah, especially with the
Speaker 1: example they've given in the article of the two of
Speaker 1: their loans are under five percent. We've got a three
Speaker 1: percent and a four and a half percent, and that
Speaker 1: is really good. That is way less than what you'll
Speaker 1: get over time in the stock market. If we're looking
Speaker 1: at like a thirty year horizon, whereas eighteen point nine,
Speaker 1: you would be i mean expert pro to get that
Speaker 1: in the stock market for a thirty year time horizon.
Speaker 1: So like you're not gonna probably not going to make
Speaker 1: that up by investing. So getting rid of that is
Speaker 1: a great idea, but it's not as important, I mean
Speaker 1: the three percent interest rate. In the four and a
Speaker 1: half percent interest rate, you don't have to be as
Speaker 1: on Firebaut and we'll we'll talk about that in the
Speaker 1: next article. So I don't want to get ahead of myself. Alright,
Speaker 1: So our next article is called things to consider when
Speaker 1: prioritizing which debts to pay off first? Did you learn
Speaker 1: anything new in this one, Shill? I don't. I can't
Speaker 1: say anything new stood out to me. You just know
Speaker 1: it was affirming. I think I think we talked about
Speaker 1: this well a lot more recently in saying debt is neutral,
Speaker 1: Debt can be a tool and a resource. We are
Speaker 1: not of the mindset that debt is evil and it's
Speaker 1: going to ruin you and you're unwise to have ever
Speaker 1: gotten into debt. We're not going to say that. And
Speaker 1: so I think this is really helpful to recognize, okay,
Speaker 1: and especially for our debts that have very low interest
Speaker 1: rates on them, it's okay to ride out the length
Speaker 1: of that loan, especially if it means it gives us
Speaker 1: more wiggle room to be investing and saving investing for
Speaker 1: our future, recognizing retirement hopefully can come for us, that
Speaker 1: we don't have to go hot and heavy at these
Speaker 1: loans that are only two to three percent interest. So
Speaker 1: and yeah, I'm going to talk more about that, but
Speaker 1: I think just affirming it's always good to hear this
Speaker 1: more kind of radical middle approach when it comes to, hey,
Speaker 1: what should I be doing, what should I be prioritizing
Speaker 1: or considering when it comes to debt payoff and when
Speaker 1: we eliminate the shame? I love that. Yeah. So there
Speaker 1: afore different questions to ask or things to consider when
Speaker 1: you are trying to customize the debt avalanche or the
Speaker 1: debt snowball. So the first one is tax breaks, and
Speaker 1: I don't think I would put this as the first one,
Speaker 1: but they have. So they state that tax breaks can
Speaker 1: come in the form of credits, reductions, or exemptions. Certain loans,
Speaker 1: like mortgages and student loans, do have tax deductions that
Speaker 1: allow you to reduce your taxable income, but this is
Speaker 1: slightly misleading. Mortgage interest can only be deducted if you
Speaker 1: are itemizing deductions, which most of our listeners are taking
Speaker 1: the standard deductions, So that's not really a thing when
Speaker 1: you're thinking about paying off your mortgage. Don't consider the
Speaker 1: tax implications or a tax break when you are paying
Speaker 1: that off. It's if you're taking the standard deduction like
Speaker 1: most people. UH, student loan and on the other hand,
Speaker 1: is deductible. If you take the standard deduction, it's considered
Speaker 1: a income reduction, so you would reduce it just like
Speaker 1: if you were UM contributing to a health savings account
Speaker 1: or for ohwe K. Those are things that are considered
Speaker 1: UM off the top income reductions that then will reduce
Speaker 1: your taxable income. So student loan interest when it was
Speaker 1: occurring was deductible. If you see any student loan interest,
Speaker 1: it will be deductible as as income. So so that
Speaker 1: is a small thing to consider, and I would say
Speaker 1: mostly if you're on the teetering on the edge of
Speaker 1: an income bracket, that's maybe more important. Or if you're
Speaker 1: in a highly taxed area highly taxed income, maybe those
Speaker 1: are things you want to keep around. But if you
Speaker 1: are not, then it's really not something I would consider.
Speaker 1: That's not the definitely not at the top of my
Speaker 1: list when making considerations on what debt to pay off.
Speaker 1: And the second consideration that should have been the first consideration,
Speaker 1: and you've already heard us talk about it interest rates.
Speaker 1: So here you go. Here's like a really simple template.
Speaker 1: Prioritize anything in the double digits immediately. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: reference back to whatever your preferences. Avalanche or snowball. We
Speaker 1: just love snow I guess those are intense snow We
Speaker 1: don't illustrations though, Yeah, avalanche or snowball, both of them are. Anyhow,
Speaker 1: anything between five and nine percent is going to be secondary,
Speaker 1: so the next thing that you want to be tackling.
Speaker 1: And then they say anything under five percent is at
Speaker 1: your discretion. This is very low interest and again most
Speaker 1: likely your money is going to go further invested when
Speaker 1: the tip goal average return is seven percent and you know,
Speaker 1: yeah average anything under five percent then yeah, take your time,
Speaker 1: live out the life of that loan if you want,
Speaker 1: again at your discretion. Yeah, and these are just standards.
Speaker 1: So again, these are just recommendations that we are making
Speaker 1: because of kind of psychology of you know, the psychology
Speaker 1: of motivation, psychology of simplicity, but also math, you know,
Speaker 1: like when we are sitting with loans in the double digits,
Speaker 1: that's eating up any return that we could get in
Speaker 1: this in the stock market. Uh so that's really important,
Speaker 1: I think. And typically what we see is credit cards
Speaker 1: have lower balances anyway than like a car or student loan,
Speaker 1: so it usually just ends up that they're at the
Speaker 1: top of the snoble and the top of the APO lanch.
Speaker 1: Normally that's what you're going to see. If for some
Speaker 1: reason you're not seeing that, I would definitely say prioritize
Speaker 1: the double digits first, and traditional, like for the last
Speaker 1: twenty years, wisdom is to uh, if you're not going
Speaker 1: to pay off everything, just pay off everything over five percent,
Speaker 1: because the minimum kind of you're going to get long
Speaker 1: term in the stock market has shown to be about
Speaker 1: seven percent. It's usually between seven and ten percent is
Speaker 1: what we usually plan to earn, and so anything under
Speaker 1: five percent is really at your discretion. But we're in
Speaker 1: a season where interest rates are so high that may
Speaker 1: not be feasible right now. It used to be very
Speaker 1: easy to get a car loan under five percent, like
Speaker 1: all car loans were under five and now it is
Speaker 1: very difficult even if you have excellent credit. So that's why,
Speaker 1: like we're saying, anything five to nine percent is secondary,
Speaker 1: because you want to make sure you are maintaining your
Speaker 1: emergency fund so that you don't have a reason to
Speaker 1: go back into double digit interest rate debt, and that
Speaker 1: you're also starting to incorporate some investing that you're you're
Speaker 1: still if you were able to invest, and maybe a
Speaker 1: new interest loan is keeping like trying to pay off
Speaker 1: that will keep you from investing. Try to stay at
Speaker 1: the status quo where you were, and just secondarily try
Speaker 1: to incorporate that debt that's between five and nine. But
Speaker 1: it's really up to you. That's just like a recommendation
Speaker 1: from your frugal friends and this article. Yeah, so next
Speaker 1: is to consider the remaining balance, and that would have
Speaker 1: been my second suggestion, is to consider the remaining balance
Speaker 1: because like we said before, there is a science to
Speaker 1: simplicity and it will not just give you a sense
Speaker 1: of accomplishment and a sense of motivation, but there is
Speaker 1: an overwhelm that comes when our lives are cluttered, uh
Speaker 1: scheduled to the brim. Our transactions list is a mile long,
Speaker 1: like there is an element of stress that comes with that,
Speaker 1: and it's the same with our debts. The more debts
Speaker 1: you have and the higher than the amount, but even
Speaker 1: just the individual debts causes more stress and anxiety. So
Speaker 1: if that is something that you are seeing, then definitely
Speaker 1: maybe starting with a snowball and then progressing to an
Speaker 1: avalanche might be what works for you. Alternatively, when we
Speaker 1: interviewed a cup for our Debt Free Stories UH series
Speaker 1: on YouTube. We found that they prioritized the higher minimum payments,
Speaker 1: so they didn't look at interest rate as much. Well,
Speaker 1: they did look at interest rate, they didn't look at amount,
Speaker 1: but they did focus on I don't forget this if
Speaker 1: this is a Coupler or one of the other girls.
Speaker 1: I don't remember who did it actually, but they focused
Speaker 1: on the monthly payment and focused on the higher monthly
Speaker 1: payment so that they could get that out of their
Speaker 1: life quicker. So once they paid that off, then they
Speaker 1: had this huge amount to add to their margin. And
Speaker 1: and so that was and that normally will probably end
Speaker 1: up being probably your largest interest rate. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I don't know where it would end up being actually,
Speaker 1: but it was super mobid avating to free up that
Speaker 1: entire chunk of minimum payment every single time, way more
Speaker 1: than it had just been a small like twenty or
Speaker 1: fifty dollar addition to the margin. I think that's what
Speaker 1: you're here too. When people say people make it a
Speaker 1: priority to pay off their mortgage, it's not just an
Speaker 1: interest rate decision. It's also that freedom of no longer
Speaker 1: having a mortgage, freeing up What is usually a big
Speaker 1: portion of where their monthly expenses are going. And so yeah, similarly,
Speaker 1: if you've got a payment that is taking up a
Speaker 1: good chunk of your take home pay, then you're gonna
Speaker 1: experience a good deal of freedom when now you've got
Speaker 1: that four hundred five hundred dollars not obligated to be
Speaker 1: paying every month, and you can kind of put it
Speaker 1: where you want to, whether that's towards more debt or
Speaker 1: just living large. Yeah, this is definitely I think the
Speaker 1: interest rates and how you feel about the remaining balances,
Speaker 1: those are the two biggest things for me. Yeah, what's
Speaker 1: going to keep you on quartermize what you know about
Speaker 1: yourself already. The last one that they mentioned on here
Speaker 1: to be considering in determining prioritizing debts to pay off.
Speaker 1: This one's an interesting one to me. It's probably also important.
Speaker 1: Probably also should have considered this one. Yeah, it says
Speaker 1: the consequences of default. Now this is interesting to me
Speaker 1: because we're talking about paying off debt, not not paying debt,
Speaker 1: So like, considering the consequences of default is considering the
Speaker 1: consequences of you not paying the debt, which is not
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. We're talking about increasing payments towards
Speaker 1: debt and which one is most important. They're kind of
Speaker 1: referencing like if you did and pay your mortgage after
Speaker 1: a little bit of time, you're gonna get kicked out
Speaker 1: of your house, or if you don't pay child support,
Speaker 1: you could go to jail. But it's like, that's not
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. But yeah, okay, so look at
Speaker 1: which debts are important for you, kind of maintaining some
Speaker 1: semblance of like being a contributing member of society and
Speaker 1: having a roof over your head. But obviously we're talking
Speaker 1: about paying off the debt, not ignoring the debts. So
Speaker 1: I don't I don't actually know how important that is
Speaker 1: to be picking about are on the line, if you
Speaker 1: are going through a season, or are are working on
Speaker 1: getting a new job or getting a job. I think
Speaker 1: this is something to consider if you are not looking
Speaker 1: at how should I spend the margin, like to pay
Speaker 1: off debt faster. If I'm just looking to stay stable
Speaker 1: and just pay debt any on anything than then yes,
Speaker 1: this is a way to consider. But if you are,
Speaker 1: if you are budgeting and your budget shows that you
Speaker 1: should have margin, extra margin to play with to pay
Speaker 1: off debt, then don't. This isn't where we should be looking.
Speaker 1: We should be looking at interest rates and balances and
Speaker 1: kind of creating a plan based on those. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: consequences of default. I think that's more so like a
Speaker 1: budgeting technique. And if money is really really tight, what
Speaker 1: are you going to prioritize, Like you're gonna pay your rent,
Speaker 1: you're gonna pay your bills, and you're gonna buy some food.
Speaker 1: Like that's where that's gonna go. I would say definitely
Speaker 1: more of a budgeting technique than a debt payoff strategy consideration.
Speaker 1: But you know what falls under all categories, always, everywhere,
Speaker 1: all of the time. First priority, after the first part
Speaker 1: of the show, the Bill of the week. That's right,
Speaker 1: it's time for the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 1: Maybe a baby was born and his name is William.
Speaker 1: Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died
Speaker 1: and you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 1: That bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill
Speaker 1: of the week. Hey, this is Nick, long time listener.
Speaker 1: I had listened to every single one of y'all's episodes.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for what you do for our community.
Speaker 1: Y'all are amazing. My bill of the week is the
Speaker 1: mental tax and exhaustion from being an introvert trying to network.
Speaker 1: Listening to your most recent episode when I'm recording this
Speaker 1: and hearing just go out and do it. It's not
Speaker 1: that bad for introverts to network. Just throwing it out
Speaker 1: there as my bill. It is extremely taxing and exhausting.
Speaker 1: Just had to recently do this at a couple of
Speaker 1: work professional conferences and it took days to recover. So
Speaker 1: thank you guys again for what you do. And God
Speaker 1: bless Nick. You've lived listened to every single one of
Speaker 1: our episodes, every single single one. I mean, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying yeah, I'm not saying you're not telling
Speaker 1: the truth. Jill hasn't even listened to all of our episodes. Yeah, probably,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I was here for all
Speaker 1: of them. But also, great point, what a great bill.
Speaker 1: That is also a great point about the mental task
Speaker 1: and exhaustion. Yes, I had to come to terms with
Speaker 1: this as well. And if you don't know what he's
Speaker 1: talking about, Nick talking about our episode with Mandy Woodroff
Speaker 1: Santos where she talks about increasing your income by getting
Speaker 1: better jobs, getting promotions, by becoming poach all essentially so,
Speaker 1: and the way you become quote unquote poachable is by
Speaker 1: networking and meeting new people that could quote unquote poach
Speaker 1: you and get you um that could hire you for
Speaker 1: a better position or higher paying position, etcetera. And the
Speaker 1: idea of networking at like big networking events. As an introvert, yes,
Speaker 1: I am totally against it. I when I go to conferences,
Speaker 1: even the conferences where like I know people and feel
Speaker 1: comfortable are still quite overwhelming. But it's the places like
Speaker 1: so my friend joined um like a softball league at
Speaker 1: her school, and she got to know like teachers and
Speaker 1: other grades through that softball league. And she did not
Speaker 1: enjoy the softball aspect, but it was a great way
Speaker 1: to meet people in her field that she would have
Speaker 1: otherwise not probably not gotten to know as well. Or
Speaker 1: doing small social gatherings if there are any small groups
Speaker 1: like professional group outings like my old job used to
Speaker 1: have a book club, and so not necessarily joining because
Speaker 1: I love books, though I do, but joining because it's
Speaker 1: a way to meet people on a smaller level, have
Speaker 1: a reason to talk, have something to talk about stuff
Speaker 1: like that, So like not just thinking about social events
Speaker 1: and stuff at face value, thinking like oh I don't
Speaker 1: I wouldn't enjoy doing that, so why would I go,
Speaker 1: but thinking about them as ways to network with people
Speaker 1: that are better than bigger actual networking events. So for
Speaker 1: any introverts out there that are scared of networking, I
Speaker 1: see you, I get you. Try these smaller social outings
Speaker 1: that maybe you would have otherwise not thought about, but
Speaker 1: could be great for networking because of their small size.
Speaker 1: If you out there listening or an in revert or
Speaker 1: an extrovert, you've got a bill for us, or if
Speaker 1: you've got a bone to pick with us about some
Speaker 1: networking advice we've given and how difficult it is for you,
Speaker 1: or if you know you've just got a bill of
Speaker 1: some other sort, we're here for it. Frugal Friends Podcast,
Speaker 1: dot com, slash bill, leave us your bill. We're here
Speaker 1: to provide all of the support after you've tried implementing
Speaker 1: on these tips and tricks. And now it's time for
Speaker 1: the lightning round, all right. In today's lightning round, we've
Speaker 1: been talking about debt payoff order and what the standards are,
Speaker 1: how to customize it, and in this lightning round, we
Speaker 1: are going to talk about how we personally paid off
Speaker 1: our debt, like what was the strategy and how we
Speaker 1: decided to prioritize it. I remember mine vividly because I
Speaker 1: remember when we started. I was told I needed to
Speaker 1: do the debt snowball. So I said, that is the
Speaker 1: way we will do it, because that is the way
Speaker 1: we were told to do it. And why would you
Speaker 1: deviate from it if you were told to do it
Speaker 1: that way? And I know nothing, and this person, you know,
Speaker 1: seemingly knows everything, So why would I listen to myself
Speaker 1: or to this was a different me, Jill, different me.
Speaker 1: It's crazy the ways that you will compromise yourself when
Speaker 1: you are in fear or overwhether So that's yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good note. Um and Travis when I said this,
Speaker 1: was like, M, I don't think that that is the
Speaker 1: smartest way to do it. And I was very reluctant
Speaker 1: to listen to him because I was like, MM, I
Speaker 1: don't trust you. I don't I just married you. I
Speaker 1: don't trust you. I don't know you like that, and
Speaker 1: this person seems to be smarter than you, And I
Speaker 1: have said, well, if I want to be married to
Speaker 1: this person for more than three months, I should compromise.
Speaker 1: This will be our first compromise. It'll be okay, and
Speaker 1: when I prove him wrong, it'll be even better. And
Speaker 1: so we decided. I paid off my car loan, which
Speaker 1: is actually the smallest loan before we got married, so
Speaker 1: it doesn't really count. But so we decided to start
Speaker 1: with my student loan, even though it was our largest loan.
Speaker 1: It was like fifty something fifty grand, and it had
Speaker 1: little loans within it, how about six of them, I think,
Speaker 1: And so we started with that because it was six
Speaker 1: and a half percent interest, and then went to Travis's
Speaker 1: student loans, which was about twenty four grand, because his
Speaker 1: were mostly between three and four percent. They were all
Speaker 1: federal and they all had a different interest rate, which
Speaker 1: was interesting. Mine was grad student loans, so I guess
Speaker 1: that's why they were all the same. So we went
Speaker 1: pretty much avalanche, and within my student loan, we chose
Speaker 1: to go snowball within though that like bigger student loan,
Speaker 1: just to clear them out and to get that sense
Speaker 1: of satisfaction because they were all the same interest rate,
Speaker 1: so it didn't matter. So we were like, well we
Speaker 1: might as well, do the snowball within it, and uh
Speaker 1: low and behold, we did pay off the debt. We
Speaker 1: got it paid off. And not going in the order
Speaker 1: I was told to go in turned out to be
Speaker 1: absolutely fine. Didn't deter us. Doing the snowball within the
Speaker 1: bigger student loan was super helpful. But nobody like struck
Speaker 1: us with lightning for doing these because they didn't know
Speaker 1: where you were. That's probably true, and I've I've given
Speaker 1: too much away on the show. And if I were
Speaker 1: to try it again, who does what would happen? I
Speaker 1: took an approach that we didn't talk about yet called
Speaker 1: the whack them all approach, where one I love to
Speaker 1: hear anyone and I was just trying to whack them
Speaker 1: and forget about him. It was a lot of you
Speaker 1: know that. I loved the arm like movements that went
Speaker 1: along with it. That just like the whack a mole.
Speaker 1: But if she had like two whackers. I love how
Speaker 1: much you remembered, Jen. I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: I guess I just I don't have a great memory
Speaker 1: or a block out things that I perceived to be traumatizing.
Speaker 1: I couldn't I hold on to try to like right,
Speaker 1: I remember, I don't know like the exact interest rates
Speaker 1: of each of the different loans, like I can remember
Speaker 1: how they happened. But if you've heard some of my
Speaker 1: story already, this is Jill, then you know that Eric
Speaker 1: and I took out loans in the process of debt payment.
Speaker 1: That's a lesser known thing. And certainly if they knew
Speaker 1: where I was, they would have struck me with lightning
Speaker 1: far before they were trying to strike you. Jen. It
Speaker 1: was intentional protected. It was eyes wide open. It's like
Speaker 1: that you don't have to outrun the bear, you just
Speaker 1: sound to outrun your friend. Well, Jill, that's why we
Speaker 1: have so many friends, That's why that happened. There's always
Speaker 1: someone doing worse so so, but eyes wide open, and
Speaker 1: I don't regret the decision that we made. They were
Speaker 1: business decisions. They were future decisions that ended up setting
Speaker 1: us up to a point where I could begin pay
Speaker 1: off my grad school like cash flow my my grad degree.
Speaker 1: So that's all great and awesome, but it's like it
Speaker 1: it's kind of complicated for me to describe what I did,
Speaker 1: because yes, I started paying off my student loans, but
Speaker 1: then in the midst of that, we took on a
Speaker 1: truck loan. We ended up paying off the truck loan
Speaker 1: before I was done with my student loans. So there
Speaker 1: it was just a whack them all approach. One one
Speaker 1: popped up. We knew it was popping up. It wasn't
Speaker 1: you know. The illustration breaks down somewhere, But that's how
Speaker 1: we tackled that one. Follow me for more tips, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it also it aligns kind of like a
Speaker 1: few episodes ago and we had the bill of the
Speaker 1: week where Stephanie put fifty dollars on her credit card
Speaker 1: to buy a course that would help her start a
Speaker 1: side hustle that has made her like sixteen hundred times
Speaker 1: the investment, Like sometimes you are in debt. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: knowingly take on debt for the betterment of the season,
Speaker 1: and so their debt is neutral and when you go
Speaker 1: into it, and this is what trips so many people up.
Speaker 1: And I've I feel so sad to see so many
Speaker 1: good people feel like idiots because they took out student
Speaker 1: loan debt. Like because you took out debt, took out
Speaker 1: a loan to get an education when you were eighteen,
Speaker 1: Like nobody would have given you a car loan for
Speaker 1: a tesla at eighteen. Nobody would have given you a
Speaker 1: business loan at eighteen. There are so many loans that
Speaker 1: you would not have been approved for you you were
Speaker 1: approved for student loan. And it is not the fault
Speaker 1: of of eighteen year olds who are not educated in
Speaker 1: the nuances of finance. There is no guilt and there
Speaker 1: is no shame in debt, especially when that debt can
Speaker 1: help you better your life. And so the question is
Speaker 1: not whether is debt bad or good? Should you have
Speaker 1: debt should you not? It's what is it doing for
Speaker 1: you now? What it did for you then that was
Speaker 1: then what's it doing for you now? And if if
Speaker 1: what it did for you then has helped you now,
Speaker 1: we thank the debt. We say thank you debt, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you a loane. And now if it's holding you
Speaker 1: back from moving forward, we say bye, goodbye debt. We
Speaker 1: gotta get rid of you so we can do other
Speaker 1: things moving forward. But ultimately there is no shame in
Speaker 1: actually having the debt. And and it's it's just a
Speaker 1: sad add like thing to see people feel so oppressed.
Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. It's it can feel very overwhelming,
Speaker 1: But then that doesn't need to move to in action.
Speaker 1: It can help us identify, well, then what's going to
Speaker 1: bring relief, what's going to bring peace to me? And yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for the thing you bought me, right, debt
Speaker 1: doesn't exist for no reason, like what did it buy you?
Speaker 1: How can you value that thing? And then say, I've
Speaker 1: got other plans for my money now, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: we're gonna get rid of you. And then identify what's
Speaker 1: going to be the most logical and mentally an emotionally
Speaker 1: helpful way for you to tackle that debt. So we
Speaker 1: hope that this has been helpful if you were kind
Speaker 1: of uncertain about the different methods of the avalanche, the snowball,
Speaker 1: what's best for you, how to even identify ways to
Speaker 1: tackle But at the end of the day, we could
Speaker 1: also summarize by saying, just one foot in front of
Speaker 1: the other, maybe identify your approach, but it doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be all at once. You could even potentially start
Speaker 1: in your debt payoff journey by identifying bills that you
Speaker 1: can lower expenses, you can get rid of, ways that
Speaker 1: you can save to prepare yourself to begin making extra payments.
Speaker 1: Just one foot in front of the other and we
Speaker 1: are here for you a freaking men. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening. We love, love, love reading your kind
Speaker 1: reviews that in you know, kind of remind us that
Speaker 1: our best episodes are not a hundred behind us, that
Speaker 1: you know, we're still providing value, and so we wanted
Speaker 1: to share this one from Sadie Marines is practical and
Speaker 1: relatable insights, and she says, I love this podcast. The
Speaker 1: host give practical and really double insights and advice. Listening
Speaker 1: each week also Kiso motivated to keep my financial goals.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the great listening. That's so kind, Sadie, so
Speaker 1: to the point, helpful, encouraging, appreciate you. Yes, thank you, Sadie,
Speaker 1: and uh, thank you. If you enjoyed the show, please
Speaker 1: take a minute to leave a rating and review. It
Speaker 1: helps potential new listeners know what our show is all
Speaker 1: about because we're not always for everyone. I think some
Speaker 1: people look for a frugal living podcast and they're looking
Speaker 1: for just money saving tips, and then other people are
Speaker 1: looking for a podcast that's not hosted by women who
Speaker 1: chat and laugh together. And it's helpful to let people
Speaker 1: know what they're getting themselves into with a review from you.
Speaker 1: So if you like it, let them know and in
Speaker 1: the meantime, we'll see you next time. Frugal Friends is
Speaker 1: produced by Eric Syrian so Jen it's January when this releases.
Speaker 1: We're recording it in December. I'm currently at podfast No,
Speaker 1: not this one. I'm currently not so right now, I'm
Speaker 1: prepping for January. January in my mind. We talked about
Speaker 1: this when we went to Sam's Club together before my
Speaker 1: membership expired. But um, I love that final trip to
Speaker 1: sam Club we took and all the free samples we can.
Speaker 1: I'm in the midst of, well, I'm preparing for what
Speaker 1: I imagine will be a low spend January for multiple
Speaker 1: converging reasons of life circumstances. But we have talked about
Speaker 1: I am like making now right now in December, like
Speaker 1: some purchases to prepare myself for January to like not
Speaker 1: be spending much money at all, And not much of
Speaker 1: that has to do with the fact that it's the holidays,
Speaker 1: just where renovations are and life circumstances, and like when
Speaker 1: you told me so, when you were like, I'm preparing
Speaker 1: for this and you told me what you were calling it,
Speaker 1: I was like, what, And then you explained it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, me too. And it
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with holiday spending. Again, it is
Speaker 1: our renovations and where we are in life. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: that final push of renovations, but before we can see
Speaker 1: like the so for both of us doing these, getting
Speaker 1: these short term or mid term, what is yours going
Speaker 1: to be? Even all over the place long term more
Speaker 1: long terms and mid term term minds a short term
Speaker 1: rental years and true, yeah we're not able to yet
Speaker 1: rent it, but it's the final push before we can
Speaker 1: get it rented. And so it's a lot of money
Speaker 1: going out but not that money coming in yet. And
Speaker 1: so I'm prepping one of the things on my list
Speaker 1: to buy in December, to be prepared to like not
Speaker 1: spend money on like you know, the more like luxury
Speaker 1: frivolous items is definitely a bottle of gin. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. I'm like, I can't, I mean not, I can't.
Speaker 1: I do not want to do January without an ability
Speaker 1: to make myself a gin and tomic. I respect that
Speaker 1: so much. You know what is going to sound even worse.
Speaker 1: I am what twenty five weeks pregnant now, and when
Speaker 1: this airs I will be you know, twenty nine or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I was at a White Elephant
Speaker 1: gift exchange and I picked up this really nice bottle
Speaker 1: of bourbon and I was like, oh my god, yes,
Speaker 1: I can save this for March. I'm so excited. And
Speaker 1: then somebody stole it from me and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I was gonna save this and I was
Speaker 1: so sad, so like, I get it, but I would
Speaker 1: have also had to look at that bottle for three months,
Speaker 1: so maybe it's for the best. What kind was that?
Speaker 1: What's your go to? It was, well, it's not my
Speaker 1: go to, that's the brand, So yeah, I too wasn't
Speaker 1: at that moment. I was like, I don't think. When
Speaker 1: it was stolen from me, I was like, how am
Speaker 1: I going to get through the last three months without
Speaker 1: that bottle of bourbon? I was, I have such big
Speaker 1: plans for it come March sixteen. H m hm. So
Speaker 1: I get it. Our priorities are Yeah, that's that's us. Well,
Speaker 1: see you in March.