1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: How do you everybody, it's February first, two thousand eleven. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: No it's not. It's modern times. But this is a 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: throwback to February first, two thousand eleven, when Josh and 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: I released our episode on Monkhousen syndrome. Very very fascinating 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: one here everyone, really really interesting condition and very sad 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: as well. But you should be delighted to learn all 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: about Monkhausen syndrome today, So I hope you enjoy it. 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: It's a it's a pretty pretty interesting one, and that's 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: why I picked it. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant that makes this stuff you should 13 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: know the podcast. I think you didn't know. How's it going. 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: It's going great. Your nails are shiny. I got my 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: first manicure last week and I went for the clear 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: cooat and I didn't notice. I didn't know this about 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: that's an overcoat. I didn't know this about Chuck. But 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: he um bites his nail, so he has very shiny, 19 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: well trimmed half nail stubs. Yeah, a little bleedy cuticles. 20 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: It's like you have some sort of like keratin deficiency 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 1: or something. Let's go with that. But it's very shiny, 22 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 1: like the caratin you do have is radioactive or I 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: could fake like I have a carratin deficiency. Speaking of faking, Chuck, 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: that's just amazing that you said that word, because we're 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: going to talk about a syndrome wherein people perfectly healthy, 26 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: people at least who start out healthy, fake their own illness. 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: Bear with me. Yeah, okay, have you seen the movie 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: The sixth Cents? Have you seen the television show The 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: O C? No, you've never seen The C I used 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: to be hooked on that really? Oh yeah? Is that 31 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: how you got rid of TV? Yeah? I was like 32 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: I can't, it's ruining my life. Um, I can't remember 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: the girl's name in The o C. But she plays 34 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: the girl in the sixth Sense who dies and who 35 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: shows up to Haley Joel Osmond's character. Is it Misha Barton, 36 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: like the lead girl? Yeah? Yeah, really she was the 37 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: little girl in that. Yes, she was that she had 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: to vomit and remember she was like hanging outside of 39 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: his tent and just scaring the tar out of him. Well, yeah, 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: but she turned out to be okay. She's just a 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: little upset that her mom was feeding her pines, all right, right, 42 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: and she eventually dies. She had videotaped herself. I hope 43 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: everyone's seen the sixth sense if you haven't, I'm actually 44 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: not really spoiling it. There's a way I could spoil 45 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: it way worse than this. But um, she videotapes her 46 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: mother poisoning her soup with pine saw and her mom 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: is outed for having what's called Munchausen's biproxy and that's 48 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: a derivative of what's called Munchausen syndrome, right, Munchhausen, that's 49 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 1: another way to put it. Yeah. They also call a 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: f II. Have you heard of that? Factitious? Close fabricated 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: or induced illness? Where's the other F or f I? 52 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: F I I induced illness? Yeah, my brain didn't function. 53 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, you were gonna say facetious disorder, which is 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: what it is. Factitious? I was it factitious? I feel 55 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: like a dummy now. I was like, yeah, that's pretty facetious. 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: I remember when I came across the word facetious. I 57 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: I used it in um my everyday vocabulary, or tried 58 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: to and um, I but I was reading it in 59 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: books here there and never put the two together. So 60 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: finally I'm like, what is that word? And I sounded 61 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: it out and a facidious, fatidious facetious. I was like, 62 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: oh that's facetious. Oh yeah, no, fastidious. Is that what 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: you were thinking? Okay, it's like facet like the facet 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: of a diamond. I O U s. And this is fastidious. 65 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: I've been reading this wrong. Okay, this is factitious. Factitious. Man, 66 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: I'm a dumb We keep this in yeah, I think 67 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: so all right, let's do this. Okay. So, um, this 68 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: is a Munchausen or is you say? Munkhausen syndrome is 69 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: a really mysterious disorder. Um. People imagine it's extremely rare. Um, 70 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: but we have no idea how prevalent it is. Because 71 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: one of the hallmark characteristics of Munkhausen Munchausen syndrome is 72 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: that is dishonesty. Yeah, right, like you don't want to 73 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: admit you have it. That's the whole point. No, And 74 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: and to define it's it's where somebody who is not 75 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: ill either fakes an illness or makes themselves intentionally ill 76 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: in order to be able to go seek medical care 77 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: and or sympathy and empathy from friends, neighbors, relatives for 78 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, having an illness inflicted upon them. Yeah, it's 79 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: like fight club ed Norton and Helena Bottom Carter visit 80 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: support groups for illnesses to get you know, get attention 81 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: and feel a part of a club. I guess right, exactly. 82 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: And that's actually there's a new thing called Monkhausen by Internet. Yeah, 83 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: that's a big one, And that's like a new deal 84 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: where you go online to online support groups and feign 85 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: being sick just to feel like you're fitting in. I 86 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: guess right. And it's sad. It is sad, but as 87 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: we'll figure out, um, Munchausen by Internet is actually kind 88 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: of a um. It provides somewhat less harmful sucker to 89 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: people who need that. Right, So you're still feeding this 90 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: pathological illness. It's not a mental illness, but mentally it's 91 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: just as dangerous. Physically, it's not because you're getting what 92 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: you want, what you crave, what you need, which is 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: that attention and that sympathy, but you're not having to 94 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: like inject gasoline to get it, and you're not going 95 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: to the doctors, and you're not running up insurance premiums 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: that shouldn't be there and all that bad stuff that 97 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: happens with the real Munchhausen. Well, let's talk about the 98 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: history of this. Well y one I think was when 99 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: it was first described by Richard Asher in the Lancet, Right, 100 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: that's when it first got its name. Okay. I read 101 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: somewhere that there's like biblical accounts of people like like 102 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: basically doing harm to themselves to get attention. Yeah, well, 103 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: I know, I don't want to say it makes sense, 104 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: but it makes sense that it goes back that long 105 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: because what better way if you're very lonely then to 106 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: get people to feel sorry for you then to like 107 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: jump in a wheelchair all of a sudden or something 108 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: a prehistoric wheelchair exactly, or at least a um. Yeah, 109 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: So he named it in the Lancet, and he named 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: it after, of course, Baron von Monkhausen, who was the 111 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: eighteenth century German military man who apparently went off to 112 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: fight the Russians, the Turks, the Turks and came back 113 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: with all these fanciful stories that people thought were largely 114 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: probably made up to get attention, right, And there's this 115 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: Munchausen Appreciation Society who like actually like the guy and 116 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: like the tales. Um, and they've only they've been able 117 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: to pin three tales to the actual Baron Munchausen, but they, um, 118 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: there's you know, whole books of what he's supposedly these 119 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: tales he's supposedly told, and then Terry Gilliam got ahold 120 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: of them. Well, of course we'll be remiss without saying 121 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: that former Monty Python Alam made that great movie. Did 122 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: you see it? Yeah? The Adventures? It was good. It 123 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: seems good. I think it was Uma Thurman's first role, 124 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. Was she in it? Yeah? That's 125 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: very neat, very young Uma from from the Adventures of 126 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: Baron Munchausen too, Super mom my super ex girlfriend? Yeah, 127 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: what was the one where she's a mom? Though it 128 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: came out even more recently, I don't know she's She's 129 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: been in a bit of a talespen lately. We like 130 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: him with though uh Uma and Oprah classic bit, we 131 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: should probably get back to the serious timber Yes. Um, 132 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,679 Speaker 1: we should point out that it is not hypochondria, because 133 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: hypochondriacs actually believe that they're sick, and people with Monk 134 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: House and disordered. They know they're not sick, they're trying 135 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: to pretend that they're sick. Right. Um, there's another, UM, 136 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if you call it a disorder, there's 137 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: another state of mind that someone can be in called malingering, 138 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: And that's where you pretend to be sick, either for 139 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: financial gain or to get out of work. Like um, 140 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: maybe from arrested development when she had the alter ego 141 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: who was wheelchair bound and like raised a bunch of 142 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: contributions for Yeah, I think everyone's lingered at one point 143 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: or another, if it's to get out of work, right, 144 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: I guess even just sending an email like, yeah, that's lingering. Yeah. 145 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: In fact, the next time I do that, I'm gonna 146 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: just put in the subject line malingering and see if 147 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: anyone even notices what that means. That's way worse than 148 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: um or. It sounds way worse than playing hookey. Yeah, 149 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: you malingering. It sounds like you're defrauding somebody. So why 150 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: would someone do this? Well, Um, there's a lot of reasons. 151 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: The underlying reason, the underlying um part of the disorder 152 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: is that it's psychological. They believe, right, it's a part 153 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: of a personality disorder. And there's a number of risk 154 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: factors that people who have munch House in syndrome tend 155 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: to exhibit, like UM, they were they either lost a 156 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: parent while they were young, or they were abandoned by 157 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: a parents. Another big one, they may have UM had 158 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: some sort of prolonged childhood illness is one. UM. They 159 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: some are want to be doctors and nurses. Yes they can't. 160 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: Maybe couldn't get a job in the medical profession or 161 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: never wanted to try hard enough because it's kind of 162 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: hard to do that. It's easier to just you know, 163 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: hurt yourself, take it before you make it, and then 164 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: you've got UM sexual physical, emotional abuse. It's this is 165 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: this provides some sort of outlet. It's a really I 166 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: guess really the easiest way to understand it is these 167 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: people who need to be, who need attention, who need 168 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: to be taken care of, who just need more than 169 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: they're willing to ask for overtly have found an easy 170 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: street between where where they are and where they need 171 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: to be as far as attention goes. Well, it's interesting 172 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: you say that because they do point out passive aggressive personality, 173 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of these people if you could just 174 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: teach them like, you know, if you need more support 175 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: and love, then you should be able to ask for that. 176 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: But this is like the ultimate and passive aggressive I think, right, 177 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. Um, So when you're when you're addressing Munchausen syndrome, 178 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: you um would usually treat it like you would depression 179 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: or anxiety and just kind of approach it from that route. 180 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: And I imagine probably as well as using cognitive behavioral 181 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: therapy where it's like no, no, don't don't do that anymore, 182 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: don't eat that salt, snap the rubber band on your wrist, 183 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 1: remind yourself risk if you're lucky. Um, what else are 184 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: we talking about, Chuck? Oh, some more defining characteristics. Usually 185 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: people who have munch house and syndrome are young or 186 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: middle aged, although there is a record of a guy 187 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: who is pretty much a munch House in patient his 188 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: whole life. He became famous. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we're 189 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: gonna get to him, right, That was at the cherry Yeah. 190 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: And then so what do they do? I mean, how 191 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: do you how do you feign illness? Well, this is 192 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: where it gets really interesting, because it goes anywhere from 193 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: just lying, but it's not just a lie, it's he's 194 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: usually very specific, like they say that any symptom that 195 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: can't be like proven medically is what they'll usually use. 196 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: And they always say it's very very specific, like textbooks, 197 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: symptom that they clearly read from a book. So they said, hey, 198 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: if I say that i'm this, this, and this right, 199 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: then I can get this attention. But the problem is 200 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 1: if if you know, these doctors use these same physician 201 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: desk references, so they go look up this, this, and this, 202 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: and they go, oh, well, it's probably this, so I'm 203 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: going to treat it with nitroglycerin. The problem is if 204 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: you're faking these three symptoms and the nitroglycerin doesn't have 205 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: any effect, that you raise some red flags for your 206 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, physician or nurse. Right that that's a big 207 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: problem with UM, with um Munchausen syndrome is that eventually 208 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: people are going to start to get suspicious, right, and 209 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: you're lying too, So it's not like you can just 210 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: hide behind your conviction. You're hiding behind a lie, which 211 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: I think is is much more stressful. Well, and they'll 212 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: go even further. I mean that's just the basic lies told. 213 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: People will also physically inflict harm upon themselves everything from h, 214 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: well this isn't really harm on yourself, but like heating 215 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: up your thermometer, right, tampering with stuff like Henry and 216 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: e T. Yeah, he was he clearly had munchausen. Well 217 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: he's trying to get out of school though, so he 218 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: was really lingering to stay with Yeah, but um, that 219 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 1: is something that they will do. Uh, injecting yourself with toxins, 220 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: tainting your urine samples, which you could use anything for that. 221 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean, even like a little salt in your urine 222 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: will change things. Blood if you put a little blood 223 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: in your urine or your stool. Taking medications you shouldn't 224 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: be taking, yeah, or just poisoning yourself in any in 225 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: any way, shape or form. But apparently injecting is is 226 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 1: fairly common. Um. And then you said also when you 227 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: were talking about feigning illness and choosing specific um symptoms, 228 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: they may also take a different route and and choose 229 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: very broad symptoms like chest paint or um like nausea 230 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: or something like that. It could be anything. Yeah, that'll 231 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: just tie a doctor up for hours, if not days, 232 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: which is what they want is more and attention, Like oh, 233 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to come in tomorrow too. They're probably sweet, right. 234 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: And And one of the one of the reasons that 235 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: tying a doctor up is just great is because within 236 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: those hours, this doctor is going to get more and 237 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: more baffled and order more and more tests. And one 238 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: of the if the doctors paying attention, he or she 239 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: would notice that the munchaus And patient is more than 240 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: happy to do this next test, like sure, stick that there, 241 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: or maybe even suggested like shouldn't you do this test 242 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: and stick that there? Those are two uh characteristics are 243 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: two um um symptoms of Munchausen syndrome. Is that you 244 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: are very willing, if not eager, to any and every 245 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: test that they want to do, whereas most people are 246 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: probably you know, like do you have to do that? 247 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: Is there another thing to do? Right? Um? And then 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: extensive knowledge about um tests and procedures and symptoms and 249 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: the inner workings of a hospital. Those two things should 250 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: be big red flags if you are a physician and 251 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: you suspect, you know, you're having kind of troubled dealing 252 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: with somebody's symptoms, but not because you're dumb, because you're 253 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: trying everything well. Yeah, and inconsistency is one thing to 254 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: look for it in your medical history. If they say, well, 255 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: you're in here for high blood pressure, you were in 256 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: here last year for low blood pressure. So that's a 257 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: little weird. Yeah, because I think I would imagine if 258 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: you're getting what you need, and especially if it's like 259 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: a standard kind of um pathological behavior where it builds 260 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: up and up, like remember we talked about kleptomania, Like 261 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: the urge just builds up and builds up and until 262 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: it becomes irresistible, and afterwards there's just catharsis and then 263 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: the guilt or whatever. I don't I didn't see it anywhere, 264 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: but if Munchausen syndrome is like that, one would imagine 265 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: that you kind of lose touch with your previous lies 266 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: and you're not looking at it as a big picture 267 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: thing like this for the rest of my life. It's 268 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: very like, you know, let's let's do it now and 269 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: get this done and get this over with. And maybe 270 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: if they actually sat down and saw their metal history sheet, 271 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: they'd say, oh, right, need to take this in a 272 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: different direction. I UM. I read an account of a 273 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: guy who um feigned bereavement. It was called factitious bereavement, 274 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: and he showed up at the hospital UM and was 275 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: committed for like four weeks because he was um grieving 276 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: over the car accident death of his wife seven weeks 277 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: earlier and the heart attack death of his mother three 278 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: weeks earlier. And then he was interviewed. He was giving 279 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: a family history, and three of his fourteen siblings had 280 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: died young from things like throat cancer, some other accident 281 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and another thing um. And they started asking this guy 282 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: more and more questions, and he wouldn't produce like a 283 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: photo of his wife, and he wouldn't let anybody talk 284 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: to his family, and they started to get kind of suspicious. 285 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: Finally contact and found out who his family was. Contacted 286 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: his mother, who was alive, His eleven siblings were all 287 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: doing well. He didn't have fourteen and three hadn't died, 288 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: and he was never married. And when they confronted him 289 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: with this stuff, he just continued to lie and lie 290 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: and lie. So there's a pathological bent pathological lying aspect 291 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: too Munchausen, which is called pseudological fantastica. Yeah, well, you 292 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: brought up an important point. Not letting family be involved. 293 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: That's a big tell too. If you. They say, you know, 294 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: you should probably bring your husband in and uh, oh no, no, no, 295 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: we don't need to involve him, right or or he's dead, yeah, exactly, Yeah, 296 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: you don't want to talk to him. He's dead. It's 297 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: not funny at all. So that's Munchausen syndrome. UM. There's 298 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: a high risk of suicide with Munchausen, probably accidental suicide. 299 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: I mean people that go too far by accident, or 300 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: they just coming to the end of the road. I 301 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: hadn't thought about that. UM, I heard come to the 302 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: end of the road. That's terrible. What I mean like that, Um, 303 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: thirty to seventy percent is what I saw. But I 304 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe it would be accidental suicide. Interesting, I 305 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: don't even know if there's such a thing. But there's 306 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: also all sorts of other myriad problems that arise from 307 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: Munchausen syndrome, right, like UM, real illness, Like if you're 308 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: a Munchausen suffer happily, you can eventually make yourself like 309 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: genuinely ill um from injecting toxic stuff. UM. I read 310 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: another account of a guy who was UM, who had 311 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: suffered a number of amputations, medical amputations. He was missing, 312 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: like pieces of his fingers. He forced, like the doctors 313 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: to do it, he would cut himself. He kept a 314 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: little knife in a little bag of liquid feces on 315 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: him at all times because this thing was to cut 316 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: and then smear poop on the cut to make sure 317 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: it got infected. Let it faster, go seek medical attention. 318 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: And it was far too late and have his limbs amputated, 319 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: have his extremities amputated. But apparently the cut and smear 320 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: is not He's not the only one doing that. The 321 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: cut and smear, that's what I've done that. I was 322 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: about to say it has a name, No, I just 323 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: made up. Well, that's what I'd call it. Cutting smear. Well, 324 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: clearly one of the biggest problems too, is not just 325 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: the harm you're doing yourself, but you're tying up doctor's time. 326 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: You're you're spending money, if not your money, maybe it's 327 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: Medicare or whatever insurance carrier you have. It's very wasteful 328 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: and it's taking up time doctors have to treat real 329 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: patients when you need to be treated by a mental 330 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: health professional is what you need. And a lot of 331 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: these guys too. When you're talking about tying up physicians time. 332 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: They'll go um at times when there's different staff, lesser staff, 333 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: so like weekend nights, holidays, that kind of thing. So 334 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: when they tie up because there'll be different people who 335 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: haven't met them before and are familiar with them. Um, 336 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: So when they're tying up people's time, they're really tying 337 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: up their time, you know. No good. So that's traditional 338 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: monk housen, which is bad. Yeah, but it gets worse. Yeah, 339 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: Mike Housen by proxy. Right, twenty years after the guy 340 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: um Richard Asher Dr. Richard Asher um coin the term 341 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: one chius in syndrome. Uh, another guy named um Roy 342 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: Meadows coined the term Munchausen syndrome by proxy, and that 343 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: one is not as recognized, readily recognized as real as 344 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: Munchausen syndrome. Yeah, did you run into that recognizes? What 345 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: do you mean? Well, I proven, Yeah, scientifically proven. It's 346 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: I think the way that I'm seeing it is it's 347 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: viewed by some as more like remember the Satanic worshiper 348 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: hysteria of the eighties. It kind of falls into line 349 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: with that, although this is much more established than that. 350 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: Is like the A m A recognizes it that American 351 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: Psychological Association recognizes it, but it's still it's easily it's 352 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: a lot more easily misconstrued than Munchausen syndrome. Is because 353 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: there's another person who's being harmed and because they're usually 354 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: chill and right. Well, yeah, this is the deal. It's 355 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: usually children, but not always. It's basically your caregiver to somebody, 356 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: um and you are maybe poisoning them, you maybe are 357 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: smothering them so they developed breathing problems. Uh, there's all 358 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: sorts of awful, abusive things that you can do to 359 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: bring your child in And that's when I mean you 360 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: talk about getting sympathy, is when you run into a 361 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: hospital with your baby saying my baby is sick, my 362 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: baby is sick, or even worse than dead baby. Yeah, 363 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: and that happened sadly all the time. Well, the first 364 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: two cases um that that the guy Roy Meadows, Dr 365 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: Roy Meadows um described we're. One of them was a 366 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: dead kid um, a little fourteen month old Charles whose 367 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: mom had been feeding him salt and kept bringing him 368 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: back to the hospital and doctors had no idea what 369 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: was going on, and eventually he died. The other one 370 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: was a little girl, right. Yeah, her name was Kay 371 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: and she was six and she was admitted twelve times 372 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: for a urinary tract infection, treated with all kinds of 373 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: antibiotics and none of them ever worked. And that's obviously 374 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: the doctors were like, something's going on here, or at 375 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: least Roy Meadow was well. He wrote a study about 376 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: both of these cases, called it Munchausen by Proxy and 377 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: just basically like changed everything. Yeah, I mean you took 378 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: this fairly obscure disease um and turned it into this huge, 379 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: almost hysterical entity. Yeah. One of the problems is if 380 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: you are suspected of this, at least in the States, 381 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: and I think the UK is big on it too. 382 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: But if you're suspected of this um, all a physician 383 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: has to do is say, uh, you know, called Family 384 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: and Children's Services or whatever you call it, county or state, 385 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: and say, I think I have a Munchausen m case. Here. 386 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 1: A social worker comes, takes your kid, and then you 387 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: go through the hoops to prove that you don't have it. Right, 388 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: the burden of proof is on the parent who's been accused. Yeah, 389 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: this is a tricky one. We got We'll talk about 390 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: this doctor well we can talk about him right now. Southall, Yeah, 391 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: Dr David Southall in England, very controversial guy who conducted 392 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: some hidden video experiments surveillance in the nineties and UH 393 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: in hospitals. So what he would do was he would 394 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: videotape these parents inflicting harm on their kids for cases 395 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 1: that they suspected. It was Monkhausen and in the end 396 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: he got thirty three of these UH thirty nine suspected 397 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: abusers were prosecuted. Twenty three were diagnosed with f I 398 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: I And you think, well that's awesome, but it's also 399 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: like your videotaping someone doing harm to a kid. It 400 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: was very, very controversial, and this guy has been removed 401 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: and put back on the UH the list the GMC 402 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: General Medical Counsel which means you can practice medicine in England. 403 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: He's been on and off of this thing for years 404 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: and I think just this year he was finally reinstated again. Right, 405 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: They finally said that we're not going to go after 406 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: this guy anymore. But tell about the big the documentary. Well, 407 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: he accused these um, these parents publicly of UM killing 408 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: their two sons based on a TV documentary he saw them. Yeah, well, 409 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: the woman was already convicted of killing the sons, and 410 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: then he was watching the documentary and said, you know, 411 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: I think the husband, Stephen was the guy. And then 412 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: that was that, like a huge inquisition was launched and 413 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: like this guy's life was turned up on, you know, 414 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: upside down. Um, and there are a lot of accusations 415 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: like that. I get the feeling from this guy that 416 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: he was one of those uh, if you look for it, 417 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: you're going to find it kind of guys. Think about 418 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: the prevalence in one hospital that he was able to 419 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: document thirty thirty three, uh thirty nine total that he 420 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: was spying on thirty three prosecutor he was able to 421 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: document thirty three k is the Munchausen by proxy? I 422 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: mean like that means the prevalence is like probably more 423 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: than half of the global population suffers from Munchausen by 424 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 1: proxy in that case, Like, if that's the case, you 425 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Well, I thought these were special 426 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: cases he was surveilling. Now I don't know. I don't 427 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: think it was just random. Okay, well that would definitely 428 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: change the ratio. But still and thanks for that, But 429 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: still I don't even know what I meant by that 430 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: there are there are people also out there, um, who 431 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: question if Munchad's and biproxy does exist. Yeah. Apparently. Um. 432 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: There's a lot of accusations that fly at parents of 433 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: autistic kids. There's a sub term that's been coined called 434 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: Asperger's by by proxy. Yeah. Um. And there's a lot 435 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: of autistic parents who are like, oh, yeah, yeah, is 436 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: that what you think, not saying my kid is sick, 437 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: like ill with physically ill, but my child has Asperger's Yeah, 438 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: And the physicians are like, no, your kid doesn't. It's you. 439 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: You're doing this too. You're developmentally delaying your kid for 440 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: attention or whatever. Again, if it does exist, it you 441 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 1: know clearly the kid needs protection from the parents. This 442 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: is the parent almost every time he's doing it. I 443 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: think pent of the time it's the mom. But you're 444 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: also running the risk of taking a kid away from 445 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, perfectly normal parents, right. Um. And apparently the 446 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: other big bonu contention is the people who make this 447 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: diagnosis almost every time is a pediatrician, not a psychiatrist 448 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: or psychologists. All a pediatrician has to do is pick 449 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: up the phone and say I think I got a 450 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: munch house in case here, get over here, right, get 451 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: this kid. Yeah, well it's important. You said, it's a 452 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: nine percent in the times by the mother, and that's 453 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: that's what is going on most times, that the the 454 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: cases are all sort of the same, and that there's 455 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: a woman who's the generally responsible for the stay at 456 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 1: home parenting. Maybe the husband is not very involved in 457 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: giving them enough attention. In one way to stop that 458 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: and its tracts is to make your baby sick. That's 459 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: what happened with this one lady may Mary Beth Tinning. 460 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: Between seventy two and eighty five, all nine of her 461 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: children died and she was very distraught and got lots 462 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: and lots of sympathy. Was arrested in eighty six and 463 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: it turns out that she had smothered her children, uh 464 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: with a pillow. And then they asked a husband and 465 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: he said, quote, you have to trust your wife. She 466 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: has her things to do, and as long as she 467 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,640 Speaker 1: gets them done, you don't ask questions. So that's kind 468 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: of the typical case of this uninvolved husband. Clearly uninvolved husband, 469 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: that's beyond un involved, that's like apathetic, Yeah, exactly almost, 470 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: And that's allegedly apathetic allegedly, and she was convicted UM 471 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: for real in eighty seven and sentenced to twenty years. 472 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: And that's one of the saddest cases I've ever heard. 473 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: There's another one, UM w Nita Hoyt. You know, SID 474 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: Sudden infant death syndrome still is a medical mystery. UM. 475 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: But there was a time when they thought that it 476 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: ran in families, and they were hot on the trail 477 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: of explaining sid's as like a genetic uh disorder UH. 478 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: And it was based on a woman named Juanita Hoyt 479 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: who UM had six children died between nineteen six five 480 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: and nineteen seventy one, and her primary physician wrote a 481 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: study that kind of made a name for himself as 482 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: a career UM as an expert on SIDS based on 483 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: this woman's experience and UM in the nineties a I 484 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: guess a local prosecutor heard about this story and was 485 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: suspicious and started digging around, and it turned out that 486 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: this lady had killed her kids, all six of them, 487 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: but not only had killed her kids, had also derailed 488 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: The investigation of SIDS also raised a lot of questions 489 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: of what what does account for SIDS? Is there such 490 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: thing as SIDS? Is it all cases of mother's killing 491 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: their children. Um, there's there's a lot of questions about 492 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: what percentage of mysterious infant deaths are related to you know, 493 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: foul play. Well, and that that's just a prime example 494 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: of all the ramifications that Monkhausen has not just on 495 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: your child, but like diverting the path of medical research. Yeah, 496 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: and and not only that the chuck again, we keep 497 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: coming back to, you know, a engine being a parent 498 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: who lost your kid. You have no idea how right, Um? 499 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: And no other people are accusing you of killing your kid. Right? Okay, 500 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: So chuck. If the the the idea that Munchausen biproxy 501 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: uh does exist, as I said, is endorsed by the 502 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: A M A and the A P A. What are 503 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: some of the um, what are some of the symptoms 504 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: of it by proxy? Yeah. One of the things is 505 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: that the symptoms don't match the test results. One thing 506 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 1: is sometimes a caregiver is actually a nurse or works 507 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: in the health care industry. Uh, they could be siblings. 508 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: The child might have died under weird circumstances. Um, it's 509 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: kind of the same as the adult things. There's a mysterious, 510 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: unexplained symptoms that aren't going away, uh not, Matt, you know, 511 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: bizarre medical history. All these things are red flags. And 512 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: there's also UM. It's prevalent in healthcare workers. Remember with 513 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: Munchausen syndrome, you wanted to be a healthcare worker. In 514 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: Munchausen by proxy, you may be a healthcare worker. Oh 515 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: you did? Yeah? Okay, well you so you know, like 516 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: the angels of death, like the that's a type of 517 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: Munchausen by proxy. Yeah, oh yeah, I guess so. Yeah, 518 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: people who like kill the elderly. There's a doctor. I 519 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: think that the United Kingdom's most prolific serial killer was 520 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: a physician who just like dispatched his patients. He was 521 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: like treating them, but really killing him. And he killed 522 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people. Well, speaking of a lot of things, 523 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: we can't close without talking about William You pronounced that, 524 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: Michael Hoy. Yeah, he is in the Guinness Book of 525 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: World Records actually because he UM had four operations in 526 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: a hundred different hospitals to the tune of four million dollars. 527 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: But because it's Britain, it's all subsidized healthcare, so that's 528 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: a lot of dough go into this one guy and 529 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: he didn't have any of these things. He was a 530 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: monk howser. Can I say that? I think you can't. 531 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: It's not funny because he eventually died. Well, actually he 532 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: just died in a retirement home, so it doesn't really 533 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: say that he might have died from any of his treatment. Yeah. 534 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: I wonder though, Yeah, was he a monk howser cutting smear, 535 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: cutting monk howser operations? He was cutting and smear and something. Um, 536 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: I've got one for you. That's here. So remember we 537 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: talked about Munchausen by Internet. Ah, yeah, so there was 538 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: like this. The first description came in the nineties. Obviously, 539 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: you can't have Munchausen by Internet. Before the internet was around, 540 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: you'd be very far ahead of your time. But very 541 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: very quickly, right off the bat, there was a huge 542 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: what was first termed by The New York Times as 543 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: a hoax. Um. There was a little nineteen year old, spunky, 544 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: very positive nineteen year old named Casey Swinton who lived 545 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: in Kansas, and she kept um The New York Times 546 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: referred to in two thousand one as a weblog right 547 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: of her um battle with leukemia, which she lost in 548 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: May two thousand one. And she had this huge following 549 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: of people who really genuinely cared and were supportive of her, 550 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: and we're pulling forward and let her know. Um. And 551 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: then in May two thousand one, there they went to 552 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: the weblog and found news that Casey had died, and UM, 553 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: I don't know who exactly got suspicious, but people started 554 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: looking at Casey's mother, who actually turned out to be Casey. 555 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: There was no Casey ever. This woman just created this 556 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: whole fictitious character too that had leukemia and who died 557 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: and received like cards and presents and flowers and condolences 558 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: for a kid that never existed. You know, if I 559 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: was going to fake something on the internet, I would 560 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: fake that I'm awesome, Like I would make it. What 561 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: do you think we're doing right now? Well exactly, I 562 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: would be like the Walter minist Aisle. I would just 563 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: make up these awesome stories about myself. But I mean, 564 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: this is a real mental disorder, it's not I'm not 565 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: making that you guys should just choose to be awesome 566 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: instead of sick. Yeah no, no, I'm not saying no, 567 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: I don't think that. I sincerely hope no one took 568 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: you like that. May you'd be surprised with these emails. 569 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: And then lastly, there I ran across the case of 570 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: a double munch housing case, Munchausen and Munchausen by proxy 571 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: and the same mother daughter duo. The mother used to 572 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: inject her daughter with her daughter's knowledge with bacteria and 573 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: had been doing it for so long. The daughter had 574 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: both kidneys removed and was on full dialysis, so she 575 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: was in on it too. Basically, Yeah, she the mother 576 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: had Munchausen by proxy and she just had and the 577 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: daughter was both a Munchausen by proxy victim and Munchausen. Yes, 578 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: all right, well before you send an emails about the 579 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: X files, Yeah, and E R and M and M 580 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: sorry mama, three of them here, do your eminem. I'm sorry, mama. 581 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: Eminem had a lyric that said, uh, going through public 582 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: housing systems, victim of Munchausen syndrome. My whole life, I 583 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: was made to believe I was sick when I wasn't. 584 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: And it was on the X files they investigated Mounkhausen 585 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: by proxy. Yeah, I don't remember that, do you. I 586 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: don't remember that either. I was always into the like 587 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: the real plot line arc of the whole series was 588 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: okay with a smoking man and all that and the 589 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: you know, molder sister. I liked how they mixed it 590 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: up though, but I liked the just stand alone like 591 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: there's a shape shifter in the forest right or um 592 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: uh pontsa da Leon's men are still living in Florida 593 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: because they discovered the fund because they turned in a 594 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: little invisible weirdos. I didn't watch that show at the time, 595 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: but the stand alone ones were like Scooby Dooce hint hint. 596 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: But I didn't watch that show when it was on 597 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,919 Speaker 1: for real at all, and then when it went into 598 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: reruns Monday through Friday, I watched it the whole series. Yeah, yeah, 599 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: I love those those two. Those movies were pretty good too. 600 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: What's it for? Um? This episode on the X Files? 601 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: If you want to learn more about it? Type X files? 602 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: Where we what's it X files? Munchausen? Yeah, type Munchausen. 603 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: You want to spell it for him? Yeah, it's h 604 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: m U n c h A U s U s 605 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,840 Speaker 1: e n. You want to do it again m U 606 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: n c h A U s E N. Yes, And 607 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: I would. I would. I should have done a bell 608 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: at the first one. Mm hm oh because I missed it. Okay, 609 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: you can type that into the search bar at how 610 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com to learn more about this mysterious 611 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: and extremely fascinating disease. Um. And until then, let's do 612 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: some listener mail. Josh, this is a maybe a weird 613 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: listener mail to put at the end of this one. 614 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: What are we doing it on this one? This is 615 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: a very very special listener and everyone should listen to 616 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: this one because it's pretty pretty cool. Dude, are we 617 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: going to put a drum rolling at all? I think 618 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: we should at some point. Doug lives in North Idaho. 619 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: Doug and I were riding back and forth last week 620 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: about fishing trout fishing, Okay. I don't remember how it started, 621 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: but it started, okay, and I fish for trout here 622 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: and there in North Georgia. It's sort of fun. I'm 623 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: not like the hugest fisherman, and Doug is an avid 624 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: I think fly fisherman. So we're just kinda chit chatting. 625 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: And he said that he and his girlfriend Kena, she's 626 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: now gotten him or he got her hooked on the show. 627 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: And he said, I know you'll never read this, and 628 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: Keena's just making fun of me. Right now, And I said, 629 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: you tell Kena to shut it. That's not very nice. 630 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: And he wrote back and said she's laughing that we're emailing, 631 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,439 Speaker 1: and he said shut it. And this is the best 632 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: thing ever. And he said, but guys, her birthday is 633 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: February two, and uh, I got a plan that I 634 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: want to hatch. So right now as you people are listening, 635 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't know about right this second, but over the 636 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: next day on February two, at some point, Doug is 637 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: in his car. He's he's with Kena right now, and 638 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: she's probably going, what's going on here? This is weird. 639 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: She's she's laughing nervously. She's laughing here, maybe like trying 640 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,760 Speaker 1: the door handle to see if it's flocked. But Doug 641 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: is actually the one who is nervous, because Doug has 642 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 1: something very important to say, and that is Keena. He 643 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 1: would like you to be his wife. He's asking you 644 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: to marry him. Right now. We sort of are, but 645 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: we're not marrying you. It's actually Doug and this is uh, 646 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: this is the first for us. There's a marriage proposal 647 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: right here on the show. Somewhere in Idaho. Keina should 648 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,399 Speaker 1: hopefully have a ring on her finger at this point, 649 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: don't you think, what do we do if with the 650 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: answer is no? I guess we'll hear from Doug. We 651 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: won't break the people, though. I think we should go 652 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: ahead on the premise that she says yes, all right, 653 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: so I mean, what else can we say? I can't 654 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: believe we just said that. Yeah, Doug the trout fisherman 655 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: is marrying Keena, and congratulations mozeltof again. Right, yeah, it's funny. 656 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 1: Where do we go from here? I don't know. It's 657 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: like we should probably just like fade out with us wondering. 658 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: I guess, so send us an email, right yeah. Stuff 659 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: podcast how stuff works dot com holy Cow. For more 660 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff 661 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click 662 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of 663 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 1: our homepage. The how Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. 664 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes.