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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy Harden Bradford, a

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or to

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Speaker 1: find a therapist in your area, visit our website at

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you love

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Speaker 1: listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not

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Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a

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Speaker 1: licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me. Prosession three h one of the Therapy before

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Speaker 1: Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. Last week we shared part one

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Speaker 1: of a conversation about exploring non traditional pathways as a

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Speaker 1: black woman in the legal field, and this week we're

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Speaker 1: back with part two. This week, I'm joined by Patrese Perkins,

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Speaker 1: a business and intellectual property attorney with a focus on

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Speaker 1: arts and culture, new media, and entertainment. She's also the

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Speaker 1: founder of Creative Genius Law, a strategic legal partner that

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Speaker 1: helps traditionally disempowered creatives use their intellectual property to build impact,

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Speaker 1: generational wealth, and legacy. Patrese and I discuss the path

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Speaker 1: to becoming a partner or opening your own firm, the

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Speaker 1: importance of setting boundaries as an attorney, how she protects

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Speaker 1: her mental health, and the importance of protecting your ideas

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Speaker 1: as a creative entrepreneur. If something resonates with you while

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Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, be sure to share it with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag TVG in Session. Here's

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Speaker 1: our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today, Patrese, Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to be here, very exciting to have our

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Speaker 1: very own Therapy for Black Girls attorney joining us here

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Speaker 1: on the podcast. So, Patrese, you are the founder and

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Speaker 1: principal attorney of your legal firm, Creative Genius Law. Can

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Speaker 1: you say what it means to be the principal attorney

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Speaker 1: and how is that similar or different to being like

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Speaker 1: a partner at a law firm. It is simply meaning

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Speaker 1: that I am the key attorney for the firm, and

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Speaker 1: so it's very much similar. The only difference is that

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Speaker 1: we probably wear multiple hats just because we are in

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Speaker 1: a smaller firm. Got it. Before you start a creative genius.

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Speaker 1: You have worked in a variety of different settings as

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Speaker 1: an attorney. What is the path to becoming a partner

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Speaker 1: at a traditional law firm? Typically, the path to becoming

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Speaker 1: a partner starts before you even leave law school. So

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Speaker 1: you are typically looking for a summer associate position at

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Speaker 1: a law firm, which is basically a summer internship, and

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Speaker 1: that begins the relationship with firms that you've identified as

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Speaker 1: firms of interest. And then once you are ready to

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Speaker 1: exit law school, assuming that summer internship or a summer

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Speaker 1: associateship went well, then there may be an offer coming

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Speaker 1: from that firm, or you may learn from that experience

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Speaker 1: that you're not interested in that firm. But the process

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Speaker 1: starts pretty early. The path to partnership is typically being

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Speaker 1: on your a game from the moment you step foot

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Speaker 1: in the door, and also being in close contact with

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Speaker 1: whoever your assignmntors are at the firm so they can

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Speaker 1: help you craft a career plan that suited to your goal. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I want to stop here a patrise because you

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Speaker 1: tell me if I'm wrong, But it sounds like because

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Speaker 1: that process starts too early, right, Like if you are

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Speaker 1: starting this process basically before you graduate. Do both law

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Speaker 1: students then go to law school knowing that this is

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Speaker 1: what I want to do. It seems like you almost

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Speaker 1: have to to be able to put yourself on that track.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm wanting to know is, like, where

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Speaker 1: is the space for like exploration if you have to

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Speaker 1: decide so early that you want to be kind of

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Speaker 1: on this partner track. That is an excellent question because

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Speaker 1: one of my gripes with law school was really centered

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Speaker 1: around the fact that you're steered in one of two directions.

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Speaker 1: You're either steered down the big law path, which is

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Speaker 1: what I just described, or you're typically steered down the

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Speaker 1: public service path. At least when I was in law school,

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Speaker 1: there really wasn't in between, and so for anyone who

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Speaker 1: wanted to do something that was maybe a little bit

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Speaker 1: non traditional, you had to really use your own personal

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Speaker 1: resources to plot out what that path looked like for you.

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Speaker 1: There was definitely no blueprint. M Okay, so what are

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Speaker 1: some non traditional spaces in the law. So some people

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Speaker 1: go into policy as lawyers, and they may have gone

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Speaker 1: into law school thinking they want to be a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and then leaving realizing that they could impact a law

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Speaker 1: in different ways through policy, and I actually have seen

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Speaker 1: that happen a lot with people who carry public service interests,

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Speaker 1: specifically interests around education or things of that nature. Another

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Speaker 1: non traditional path is actually starting your own law firm,

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Speaker 1: even though we have more recent law grads who are

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Speaker 1: kind of branching out on their own sooner, that's definitely

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Speaker 1: considered an out of the box path. And then also

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Speaker 1: in house council for a corporation, right, so you could

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Speaker 1: work for like as Blue Shield or any of these

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Speaker 1: corporations who need to have attorneys in the house. I

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Speaker 1: would say, even though that is a popular path, it's

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Speaker 1: still a little bit out of the box because, based

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Speaker 1: on my experience, law school didn't really necessarily train you

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Speaker 1: or groom you towards that path. Okay, So that's really

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Speaker 1: interesting because I feel like a lot of lawyers end

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Speaker 1: up opening their own firm, But it sounds like that

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Speaker 1: it's still considered non traditional. Can you say why that is?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so, Usually when lawyers start their own firm, it's

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Speaker 1: because maybe they had the entrepreneurial book to begin with, right,

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Speaker 1: and so that was always a part of their vision.

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Speaker 1: And I think that those lawyers are actually still in

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Speaker 1: the minority, just because we are not wired to really

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Speaker 1: think that way. We think we go to law school,

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Speaker 1: we get the plush law firm job, and that is

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Speaker 1: the American dream for many lawyers. For other lawyers, it's

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Speaker 1: usually in response to some sort of external circumstance. So

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Speaker 1: it could be that the jobs aren't there when I

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Speaker 1: was graduating from law school. Is very tough because I'm

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Speaker 1: in a market where there are five law schools, five

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Speaker 1: respected law schools, and so when everyone is graduating at

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Speaker 1: the same time, we have a lot of competition for

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Speaker 1: essentially the same roles. And we were dealing with a

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Speaker 1: recession at the time. This was in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: so there just weren't a lot of jobs available. So

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Speaker 1: some people launch their firms in response to not being

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Speaker 1: able to find other work. And then I think that

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Speaker 1: you do have people who are realizing that the quality

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Speaker 1: of life at a larger firm in particular is not

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Speaker 1: really aligned with what they want for themselves personally. So

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Speaker 1: they may have worked in big law or a more

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Speaker 1: traditional job for maybe one to three years and they realize, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is not as suited to me. Maybe building a family,

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Speaker 1: it's not suited to me having more flexible lifestyle, and

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Speaker 1: so they are branching out for that reason as well,

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Speaker 1: to have more control over their own lifestyle. So I

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Speaker 1: want to get a little bit more granular when we

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Speaker 1: say big law, what does that mean? Like what qualifies

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Speaker 1: a firm as a big law firm? A big law

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Speaker 1: firm is typically operating in multiple states, and they typically

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Speaker 1: have thousands of attorneys. Even a mid sized firm is

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Speaker 1: typically a firm that may have a couple of hundred attorneys.

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Speaker 1: And so when we're talking big law, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a firm that has thousands of attorneys across the country,

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Speaker 1: usually multiple offices, and there's a hierarchy. So when you

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Speaker 1: are starting at a law firm, you're starting as an associate,

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Speaker 1: which is essentially the entry level position, and then throughout

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Speaker 1: your career, you probably are looking to move yourself up

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Speaker 1: the ranks you mentioned earlier partner track, and that is

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Speaker 1: typically a goal of someone who wants to work in

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Speaker 1: big law. So it's the size of the firm that

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Speaker 1: qualifies it. Got it, Okay, So you already started to

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Speaker 1: give us a little bit about your background before opening

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Speaker 1: your firm, but can you tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about your journey, like what actually led to you

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Speaker 1: opening your own firm? So I worked full time. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny, doctor Joy, because I didn't answer that question.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I skipped over it. But I

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Speaker 1: started my employment journey while in law school, initially for

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Speaker 1: a two attorney law firm. That was excellent experiences because

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Speaker 1: not only did I get to do real attorney work

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Speaker 1: because the law firm was so small, I also got

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Speaker 1: to see what it looked like for a law firm

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Speaker 1: owners to split up. The partners split up while I

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Speaker 1: was there, and so I went from working for a

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Speaker 1: two partner firm to a solo attorney firm, and so

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Speaker 1: I would say that was the best experience ever because

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Speaker 1: when you're in a shop that's small, you learn some

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Speaker 1: of the business of the law. You start to learn

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Speaker 1: how to lawyer before you are really a lawyer. From there,

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Speaker 1: I went to working for a legal aid organization that

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Speaker 1: service people with disabilities in the elderly and I ran

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Speaker 1: their continuing legal education program. So with that opportunity, I

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Speaker 1: was able to develop a lot of attorney relationships because

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Speaker 1: I was working with the volunteer network of attorneys, and

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Speaker 1: I was also able to really get the feel of

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Speaker 1: launching something from the ground up. So at that time,

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Speaker 1: continuing legal education was a new thing that was required

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Speaker 1: of us, and so this was the first time the

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Speaker 1: organization had to launch a continue in illegal aid program,

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Speaker 1: and I got to do that while in law school

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Speaker 1: from the ground up. From there, I went to a

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Speaker 1: government position. My office was appointed by the federal courts,

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Speaker 1: and I got to oversee what we call illegal patronage

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Speaker 1: hiring in Illinois, meaning you are hired because of your

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Speaker 1: political affiliation and not because of merits. And I was

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Speaker 1: in that role for five years. So I was in

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Speaker 1: that role while in law school, and then when I

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Speaker 1: became licensed, I became a staff attorney, overseeing a large

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Speaker 1: part of that office, and then I branched out on

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Speaker 1: my own. The wonderful thing about me branching out on

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Speaker 1: my own was number One, I had clarity around what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do. I had always worked with populations

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Speaker 1: that were underserved through all of my work and through

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Speaker 1: my employment journey. My personal life was revealing to me

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Speaker 1: that creative that I knew didn't have attorneys, and I

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Speaker 1: decided that that would be the next underserved population that

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Speaker 1: I would work with. And I had a boss that

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Speaker 1: was very supportive because my office was temporary. We were

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Speaker 1: going to go away as soon as a federal judge

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Speaker 1: that we no longer needed to exist, and she was

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Speaker 1: very supportive about essentially supporting my path forward as long

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Speaker 1: as it didn't interfere with that current job. So I

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Speaker 1: was able to step out of that role into my

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Speaker 1: firm pretty seamlessly with about two years of planning. Though

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Speaker 1: I love that. So what have been some of the

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Speaker 1: unforeseen challenges that you didn't expect in opening your own firm?

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Speaker 1: The biggest was the emotional journey that came along with it.

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Speaker 1: Most people would probably think the financial commitment, but I

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Speaker 1: had taken two years to kind of plot out my

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Speaker 1: path from my prior job, meaning I had saved the money,

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Speaker 1: I had begun to develop a group of clientele. The

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Speaker 1: part that I was not prepared for was the emotional

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Speaker 1: strain that starting a firm would have on me. And

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Speaker 1: I say all the time, there needs to be training

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Speaker 1: for that, because that was for me, the biggest piece

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Speaker 1: of the puzzle that presented the biggest challenge for me.

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Speaker 1: So when you say emotional strain, what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: Can you give us some examples. So one part of

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Speaker 1: it came from the fact that I was dealing with

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Speaker 1: a major lifestyle change because I had started my legal

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Speaker 1: career fairly early. I went from a job where I

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Speaker 1: was making almost two hundred thousand dollars as a very

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Speaker 1: young person, and for someone who didn't go the big

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Speaker 1: law path to be making that amount of money before

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Speaker 1: you even graduate a law school, that was pretty rare,

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Speaker 1: especially at that time, and so naturally, when you step

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Speaker 1: out on your own, you're not living that same six

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Speaker 1: figure lifestyle anymore. So that was really the first thing.

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Speaker 1: I went from being able to essentially do what I

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Speaker 1: wanted as a young person to now literally gott in

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Speaker 1: the eye and hearing the one to make sure I

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Speaker 1: could pay my bills right. And so there was a

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Speaker 1: mental shift because I couldn't do all the brunches, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't hang out as much. I had to spend more

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Speaker 1: time at home to save money because I live in

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Speaker 1: a large city and things were getting expensive. So it

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Speaker 1: was the mental impact of just a different lifestyle. And

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Speaker 1: then there was the mental impact of being the person

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Speaker 1: that it felt like people dumped on. So when you

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Speaker 1: are an attorney, you're essentially wearing multiple hats, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: and so you get clients on their good days, but

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Speaker 1: you also get clients when they are stressed and on

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Speaker 1: their bad days. And so that was the other piece

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Speaker 1: of it, just learning how to navigate clients who are

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Speaker 1: having tough days continue to be clients centered and managed

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Speaker 1: to not carry whatever was weighing on them or weighing

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Speaker 1: on me during the work day outside of work, and that, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's still a work in progress. It's become easier, but

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Speaker 1: it's certainly a work in progress. So can you share,

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Speaker 1: like what kinds of things helped you to really get

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Speaker 1: some skills and some help around like releasing this emotional

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Speaker 1: strain and how you've been able to set boundaries with clients,

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Speaker 1: Like I think that that's typically a very hard thing

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Speaker 1: to do. Yes, So what helped was taking myself out

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Speaker 1: of isolation. I'd isolated myself because of I am a

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Speaker 1: person that when I stressed and I'm overwhelmed, I draw

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Speaker 1: in word and I completely isolated myself at one point

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Speaker 1: from good friends and family. And so it was really

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Speaker 1: kind of forcing myself out of isolation and getting therapy

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Speaker 1: was one of the first things, and one of the

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Speaker 1: first things my therapists said to me was, in this

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Speaker 1: change in your career path, you've stripped yourself of everything

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Speaker 1: that you've identified as bringing you enjoyment, and every thing

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Speaker 1: that you identified as bringing you enjoyment costs money. Let's

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Speaker 1: identify some ways that you can care for yourself and

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Speaker 1: that you can enjoy yourself that doesn't cost a thing.

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Speaker 1: And so that was the first thing that helped tremendously,

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Speaker 1: and then along the way, journaling became a more frequent

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Speaker 1: practice for me, and also working with a life coach

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Speaker 1: and again making the commitment to therapy. When I worked

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Speaker 1: with a life coach, I literally remember having a talk

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Speaker 1: with my now fiance around should I do it? I

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Speaker 1: really don't have the money for it, but I feel

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Speaker 1: I can use this sort of support in my journey.

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Speaker 1: And I ended up working with the life coach and

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Speaker 1: that was groundbreaking. And so I've learned that having those

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Speaker 1: resources along the way are critical and absolutely necessary for

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Speaker 1: this path in terms of the boundary setting that it's

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Speaker 1: something else that has been a work in progress. And

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Speaker 1: so for me, it looked like removing email from my phone,

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Speaker 1: so I removed email from my phone about five or

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Speaker 1: six years ago, and I remember sharing that on Facebook

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Speaker 1: and people were like, oh my god, what do you mean.

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Speaker 1: I took off the app. I don't use the mail

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Speaker 1: app on Apple anymore, so I took off that app.

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Speaker 1: I don't stay logged in to Gmail on my phone.

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Speaker 1: I also cut off as many notifications as possible, and

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Speaker 1: I have a very firm policy around not giving people

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Speaker 1: my cell phone for them to communicate with me, because

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Speaker 1: that was something that I learned early on. People didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily care if it was eight am. They would text

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Speaker 1: you with a legal question and they would say, it's

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Speaker 1: going to be real quick, real short, at eight am

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Speaker 1: on a Saturday. And so I quickly learned I needed

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Speaker 1: that boundary in terms of other boundaries with clients, honoring

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Speaker 1: our hours of nine to six pm, allowing my team

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Speaker 1: to deal with client matters when it's within their skill

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Speaker 1: set to do so, so that it creates a buffer

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Speaker 1: for me and I don't have to be the one

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Speaker 1: doing all of the things when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: clients and all of the other work. I love that,

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Speaker 1: And you know it's interesting because I'm having this conversation

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Speaker 1: with you as attorney, but you're also my attorney, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I love that I still feel very like

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Speaker 1: taken care of and like I don't feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: like ever being brushed aside, even though you have very

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Speaker 1: strong boundaries in place, right, And so I think that

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Speaker 1: that is just an example for people of when we

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Speaker 1: are afraid to set boundaries because we're worried about go

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Speaker 1: how will they take it? And you know, will I

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Speaker 1: lose business? That your business is still thriving even though

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Speaker 1: you have these things set in place to protect yourself.

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Speaker 1: And I appreciate that coming from you first can because

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Speaker 1: that was the biggest fear I felt. I equated boundaries

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Speaker 1: setting with not providing good client service. And my therapist

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Speaker 1: said to me, what if people receive the best version

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Speaker 1: of you because you set boundaries? And I really do

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Speaker 1: feel that I see that happening at play. So when

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Speaker 1: I show up for my client calls, unless I'm just

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Speaker 1: spent all night at the New Addition concert like I

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Speaker 1: did last Thursday, then typically I'm able to show up

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Speaker 1: and you're not getting like the burnt out stretch sooth

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Speaker 1: in version of me because of those boundaries that have

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Speaker 1: been set. Got it? Thank you for that. I love

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Speaker 1: patriits that your firm operates in all of these very

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Speaker 1: new spaces, which is a part of why I was

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Speaker 1: attracted to joining your firm or being a client of

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Speaker 1: the firm anyway. So you do a lot in stuff

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Speaker 1: like art law, cannabis, businesses, new media. Can you talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about what each of these is and

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Speaker 1: what drew you to like operating in these more new

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Speaker 1: age kinds of spaces in the wall. Absolutely so. Artlawe

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Speaker 1: is my number one love. And that is really because

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Speaker 1: I realized, especially here in my hometown of Chicago, that

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Speaker 1: artists were really underrepresented across the board in terms of

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Speaker 1: not having lawyers, not having managers, and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: And what I learned along the way was that artists

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Speaker 1: and other creatives didn't feel that lawyers would really get them.

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Speaker 1: They felt that lawyers would restrict them, they would tell

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Speaker 1: them all the things they couldn't do, and for them,

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Speaker 1: it was just a misalignment from a values perspective. And

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Speaker 1: so we really approached the law from the lens of

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Speaker 1: we used the law to help nurture your creativity instead

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Speaker 1: of restricting it. And to the extent we can do

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Speaker 1: that legally that's what we do, and so that was

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Speaker 1: really how I began with the artists. But what I

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Speaker 1: realized was that I really was drawn to working with

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Speaker 1: clients who were big thinkers, who were a bit against

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Speaker 1: the grain in terms of how they did things in

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Speaker 1: their industry, and just who had these major, like wild

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Speaker 1: crazy ideas, and that really could come across from any industry.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that I realized was that I might

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Speaker 1: start with a client who is an artist on year

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Speaker 1: one of our work together, and then by year four

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Speaker 1: their chef. And that has happened because typically people who

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Speaker 1: are creatives are moving in and out of disciplines. And

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Speaker 1: so while art is my number one love because I

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Speaker 1: see the need there, I also see the value from

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Speaker 1: an economics perspective, because one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: will always think about was if more artists knew about

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Speaker 1: how to protect their intellectual property, I could help them

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Speaker 1: increase the value of their art by protecting it more,

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Speaker 1: which ultimately would help improve their position today and be

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Speaker 1: the foundation for a stronger legacy. So that was how

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Speaker 1: I began in art. Now with the other industries that

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Speaker 1: I work in new media, at the same time, I

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Speaker 1: was recognizing new media as a field. And so for

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Speaker 1: anyone who doesn't know what new media is, that's anyone

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Speaker 1: who is creating media outside of the traditional platform, so

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Speaker 1: traditional newspaper or even blogs at this point, and so

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Speaker 1: it's what we refer to as our content creators. You're

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Speaker 1: creating new media across different platforms. So similarly, y'all weren't represented.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I quickly learned was

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Speaker 1: that without having representation who really understood the value of

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Speaker 1: your contributions, you were really in a vulnerable position. Meaning

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Speaker 1: as you started to get new deals and opportunities your way,

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Speaker 1: you may not know how to engage in a negotiation

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Speaker 1: process or what the real value of your creative work is.

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Speaker 1: And when you are engaged in this negotiation process, ultimately,

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Speaker 1: each business opportunity sets the foundation for the next one,

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Speaker 1: and the next one and the next one. And so

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to play a key role in helping

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Speaker 1: people in new media capture the value so that they

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Speaker 1: can essentially earn more money and set their families up

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Speaker 1: for more the other industries have come Because I am

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Speaker 1: a creative myself who just happens to be a lawyer,

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Speaker 1: and i'd like to learn about these new industries and

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Speaker 1: then share that in the terms of rolling that out

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Speaker 1: to service my clients as well. The cannabis piece you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: we quickly pull it back on what we focus on

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Speaker 1: with that is all of our other service areas. So

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Speaker 1: if you need a trademark, if you need counsel around

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Speaker 1: your business, we'll work with you on that. But in

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Speaker 1: terms of the cannabis licensing here in my state, so

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Speaker 1: many games were being played, particularly with minorities. We're getting

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Speaker 1: through the process, which just a challenge, if not impossible,

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Speaker 1: and we didn't have enough minority representation in the field,

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Speaker 1: and there were attorneys who were beginning to only focus

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Speaker 1: on cannabis law to help people get through the process.

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Speaker 1: And because we offer other service areas, that was an

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Speaker 1: area where we kind of said, let those attorneys who

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Speaker 1: are only doing this and who are really figuring out

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Speaker 1: how to help people move through the system and can

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Speaker 1: focus on it, do that work, and then we can

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Speaker 1: do the work to support them as it which would

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Speaker 1: be if your client needs a trademark or needs a

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Speaker 1: business setup or a partnership agreement. So as I'm listening

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Speaker 1: to you talk, Patris, if I think about my own journey,

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Speaker 1: like I have taken you on some wild rides, like oh,

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Speaker 1: now I want to do this thing? Right? How do

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Speaker 1: you stay up to date with like all of the

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Speaker 1: different things that like your creatives are exploring within their businesses.

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Speaker 1: There's multiple layers to it. So a friend actually said

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Speaker 1: to me the other day, she said, you couldn't do

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Speaker 1: what you do if you weren't genuinely interested in the culture,

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Speaker 1: if you weren't genuinely interested in creatives. Because so much

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Speaker 1: of my learning and my team's learning comes from us

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Speaker 1: being in the loop of what's on trend and what's

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Speaker 1: new and developing, and that's something that we just enjoy

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Speaker 1: to do. So just by virtue of that being interest,

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Speaker 1: we are reading up on the newest licensing deals or

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Speaker 1: what deal Tyler period is considering right now. We're reading

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Speaker 1: up on those things because that's our version of pop culture.

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Speaker 1: And then professionally, I have always invested in developing out

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Speaker 1: our research databases. So for anyone who is considering a

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Speaker 1: path in law, even if you're branching out on your own,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, one of the most important investments you

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Speaker 1: can make is in your research skills and development. And

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Speaker 1: so from early on, we were spending a significant amount

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Speaker 1: of money making sure I have the access to the

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Speaker 1: latest research. If I'm offering a clients an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: work with me on negotiating their licensing deals, that means

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Speaker 1: that I need to know the trends in the licensing industry.

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Speaker 1: So I have a resource, paid resource that tells me

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Speaker 1: what the trends are in each industry where the money

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Speaker 1: is being spent most in licensing, and so it's really

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Speaker 1: investing in those paid resources, plus keeping up with our

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Speaker 1: requirement for continuing legal education, meaning we have so many

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Speaker 1: hours of legal education that we have to get on

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Speaker 1: a regular races. And this is not at all the

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Speaker 1: topic of the conversation, but because you are so passionate

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Speaker 1: about creatives, is there one piece of information that you

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Speaker 1: want creatives listening to to know about, you know, like

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Speaker 1: the first steps they should take in terms of protecting

436
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: their creative assets. What would you say to them? I

437
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: would say, this is a loaded question, doctor Joy, because

438
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: how am I supposed to get one? The one is

439
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: actually always engage in a negotiation process. So if you

440
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: have an opportunity, and quite honestly, even if you're faced

441
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: with an opportunity that starts off as unpaid. Always be

442
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: negotiating is my tip, because you need to practice at it,

443
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: and for people to really take you seriously and value

444
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: you as a business person, they expect you to engage

445
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: in some sort of negotiation process, and so when you don't,

446
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: you kind of mess with how the power is distributed

447
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: in that change. And so you need to level it

448
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: out a bit and always engage in a negotiation process.

449
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: If you don't have an attorney, there are a few

450
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: really great books around that. One is Getting to Yes

451
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: and that is written for our non lawyers, And so

452
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: if you feel you don't know how to start the

453
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: process of negotiating, you can begin to read up on

454
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: your own, and then when the time is right for you,

455
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: hire an attorney to support you. I appreciate you picking

456
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: out of all of the things that you could have said,

457
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: given us that one and a resource as a bonus.

458
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: So I love that more from my conversation with Patris

459
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: after the break. So one of the other things I

460
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: love about Creative Genius Law is that you have a

461
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: team of all black women supporting you in the firm.

462
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: Have you gotten any feedback about needing to diversify your firm,

463
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: and if so, how have you handled that feedback. So,

464
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten any feedback, and I do want to

465
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: shout out we have a few team members that are

466
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: more back office for us, and so you don't see them.

467
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: They are not black women. They are women. And so

468
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: we have maintained our commitment to making sure that we

469
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: create an opportunity that is attractive for women, because, honestly,

470
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: in law starts there so many of the firms run

471
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: their operations in a way where it's not suited for

472
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: women who want to have families, or it makes it

473
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: really difficult, it's not suited for women who maybe have

474
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: multiple interests. And so I think because we've prioritized those

475
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: things in our firm culture, then it has made it

476
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: an attractive place for women. And I have certainly prioritized

477
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: black women and women in general. I've never gotten feedback

478
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: that I need to diversify, and I do expect it

479
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: at one point, but my commitment is to making sure

480
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: that we have a safe place to work in the

481
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: legal and there and some of the feedback that I

482
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: would get early on when people started seeing my face

483
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: associated with Creative Genius Law from aspiring lawyers was that

484
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: they wanted more, like more places like Creative Genius Law.

485
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: I get so many, so much interest from people who

486
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: want to work with us, and we can't hire everyone,

487
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: and so I think there's a need for more firms

488
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 1: who prioritize black women as well. So can you say

489
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you have been able to

490
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: create a company culture that is focused on women being

491
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: able to kind of embrace all of who they are,

492
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: that's supportive as they go through changes in their life,

493
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: because I do think sometimes it feels like there is

494
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: some tension between what an ideal working environment look like

495
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: versus like capitalism, right, like, let's just get the most

496
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: money out of everybody. You put in the most hours,

497
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: you do what you need to do, we make this money, right,

498
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: How have you been able to really craft that? So

499
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: the very first thing was as soon as I was

500
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: in a position to roll out benefits, the very first

501
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: benefit I rolled out was healthcare. And I was very

502
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: intentional about making sure I didn't go with the cheapest

503
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: policy or the policy that would be easy for me

504
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: to secure for the team but clearly had like negative reviews.

505
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: So I invested in top notch health insurance for the team.

506
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: That was number one because I never wanted someone to

507
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: have to make a major sacrifice to get medical care,

508
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: and so that was number one for me. The second

509
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: thing was we had a physical office and we still do,

510
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: but we were working in office every day and we

511
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: have since shifted to a work from home policy because

512
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: of COVID. And when we were in office, I always

513
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: looked for places that offered as many amenities as possible

514
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: because I wanted people to look forward to coming to

515
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: work and feel care for at work. So our last

516
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: office had put out breakfast every day, they did monthly massages,

517
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: monthly manicures, and so those were things that paid a

518
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: little more for. But my team certainly enjoyed coming to

519
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: work and they look forward to being able to have

520
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: that reprieve. We have workout space and things of that nature.

521
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: And then I very much encourage work life balance to

522
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: the extent that it can exist. So we do have

523
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: a kind of a flexible work policy. To be honest,

524
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't really care when people start their work day.

525
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: I just want the work done, and so the team

526
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: is able to really manage other components of their life

527
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: with their work. At Creative Genius Law. We've gifted team

528
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: members with subscriptions to meditation apps and things of that

529
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: nature to help support them having balance outside of work

530
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: as well. I love that. I feel like I am

531
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: following in your footsteps in my dream company culture to

532
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: create some of those same things. I appreciate you sharing

533
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: that with this. So we've been talking a little bit

534
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: about media and media representation. What are some common depictions

535
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: of lawyers that you see on television and how accurate

536
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: are inaccurate are they from reality? The biggest common depiction

537
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: is just how dramatic things get right. And one of

538
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: my favorite legal dramas is A Good Wife. You know,

539
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: if you were watching Like a Good Wife or any

540
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: of these legal dramas, just seeing the foolery that takes

541
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: place in the courtroom and the drama attached to it.

542
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: And I think that is just a common misconception. Usually

543
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 1: when you are even engaging in a negotiation process on

544
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: behalf of a client, it's not going to benefit you

545
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: to pull out all of the dramatics, and so it

546
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: is a very specific skill set and usually drama is

547
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: going to frustrate the process for everyone. So I would

548
00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: say that's a common misconception. Another common misconception is that lawyers,

549
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: I feel, are presented on TV often as like dark.

550
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: Used to have a favorite legal dramma with Glenn Close

551
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: and at her law firms, she'd brought in a young associate,

552
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: And once we figure out the name of the show,

553
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: we probably will charge you all with watching a few episodes.

554
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: But the lawyers were just presented as like dark and twisted,

555
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: and they were doing all of the illegal things behind

556
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: closed doors. And I feel like that's also a theme

557
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: that just plays out, like just the darkness and the

558
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: twisted nature of it all, and that is not the case,

559
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: Like lawyers have ethical guidelines that we have to abide by,

560
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: and most lawyers want to do the right theme because

561
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: we don't want our license taken from us. And so

562
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: that's another one. The show is called Damages, thank you,

563
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: oh my God, that I might watch a few episodes

564
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: that that was so good. I remember that because that

565
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: was like my nursing break, and when I had my

566
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: first little one, I would like put on an episode

567
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: of Damages in pump So I remember that, remember that

568
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: show very very finely. I agree with you. It definitely

569
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: feels like media representations of lawyers often feel like they

570
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: are not ethical, right, and so I think that that

571
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 1: can leave people feeling like that lawyers are largely like

572
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: ambulance chasers, or like they will do anything to kind

573
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: of win the case, when that really is not the truth.

574
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: It's not the truth, And that doesn't mean that they're

575
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: not bad apples in the bunch. Just like with every industry,

576
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: you do have people who are not doing the right

577
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: thing and who may take advantage of situations. And so

578
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: I would say, as a potential clients of any law firm,

579
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: you've got to do your due diligence and a gut check.

580
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: It's very important to do your own gut check to

581
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: make sure that you are comfortable with the person that

582
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: you're working for. But most lawyers really just want to

583
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: help our clients. Can you give us any other green

584
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: flags we should be looking for in terms of vetting

585
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: an attorney we're considering working with. So I would say

586
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: there are a ton of good lawyers out there, and

587
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: so what you want to get a feel for is

588
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: you want to be clear on what values and what

589
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: characteristics are important to you beyond someone being a good lawyer.

590
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is do you want

591
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: a lawyer who has routinely worked with people in your

592
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: particular industry. Someone else outside of your industry may be

593
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: able to provide good legal services to you, but there

594
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: are things that someone who is like need even to

595
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: your industry, is going to be able to pick up.

596
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: So what is their track record in your particular industry?

597
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: Do you get a feel for the fact that the

598
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: lawyer sees you as a peer. So, for example, our

599
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: team's approach is that we are collaborators with our clients.

600
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: We advise you on what to do, but we don't

601
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: make the decisions for you. If you tell me that

602
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: you're not aligned with a particular recommendation, we are going

603
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: to explore other options for you until we can't anymore.

604
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: And so, is it a law firm or a lawyer

605
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: who's willing to collaborate with you and not just tell

606
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: you what to do? And do they actually listen a

607
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: lot of times when you are reaching out to a

608
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: law firm, you may not actually talk to the lawyer initially,

609
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: you may talk to someone else on the staff, but

610
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: those same values should trickle down to the staff. So

611
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: are they taking the time to hear you out and

612
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: listen to your specific needs. So I would say, if

613
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: you have those green flags, along with the fact that

614
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: you have some proofs that they're probably a good lawyer,

615
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: then that probably is enough to at least deepen your

616
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: engagement with them. Thank you. I think that that would

617
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: be very helpful for people who are considering finding legal representation.

618
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how much you are in these

619
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: TikTok streets, Patrese, but there was are you yeah? I

620
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: am okay? All right. So there was a recent video

621
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: that went viral of a black woman attorney who resigned

622
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: from her role at a big law firm because the

623
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: firm told her she could no longer make money online

624
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: through paid partnerships and that her work online was a

625
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: clear violation of outside work activities. Are moonlighting? Can you

626
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: say a little bit about what this means, like, what

627
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: was the concern there? That's huge and I actually did

628
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: not see that, So that tells me my AGORITHM, my algorithm,

629
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 1: and TikTok is focused on other things which we won't mention.

630
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: But that's huge. So, usually when you are working with

631
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: a large firm, in particular some midsized firms and some

632
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: small firms, depending on the owner, you're going to have

633
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: an outside work restriction, meaning you can't work with clients

634
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: on the side, and that is because they don't want

635
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: you essentially competing for the firm's business. The firm is

636
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 1: investing in your growth and development and they want their

637
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: investment to be used for their benefit. Now we have

638
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 1: to keep in mind that and when it comes to

639
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: being a creator content creator, that this is still consider

640
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: a new developing industry. Historically, law firms, while they wanted

641
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: their attorneys to develop their own kind of personal reputation

642
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: because that would ultimately help bring business into the firm,

643
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: there were parameters around it. So, for instance, the law

644
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: firm was managing who did your professional headshots and things

645
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: of that nature. There was a team that was probably

646
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: putting the final stamp on your professional bio because any

647
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: development of your personal brand again is seen as a

648
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: way to help benefit the firm, because the better your

649
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: personal brand is, the more likely you are to bring

650
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: business into the firm. So with this scenario, I would

651
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 1: say that the firm has probably not had to deal

652
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: with this a lot in their practice. They've dealt with

653
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: other types of outside business, but not this. Also, the

654
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: firm would probably see it as creating a liability issue,

655
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: Meaning if she's creating content and giving misinformation or even

656
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: voicing a perspective on something that is completely different from

657
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: the firm's values, then the firm would see that as

658
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: a liability issue, and now they're looking at managing the

659
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 1: risk of it. And so for them, managing the risk

660
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: is saying you can't do this anymore. I think it's

661
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: probably a tough heel to climb, but I would seek

662
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: out my internal advocates at the law firm, so the

663
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: mentor relationships that I've developed, get their insight on a

664
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: few things, and I probably would really dig into the

665
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: firm policy to get real clear around does it actually

666
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: say that I can't do this or are you guys

667
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: making this up as you go along because you've never

668
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: had to deal with it. And if you're making it

669
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: up as you go along, let me help you craft

670
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: this policy in a way that doesn't restrict me from

671
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: pursuing work that really shouldn't hurt the firm in the

672
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 1: first place. So I would really kind of be a

673
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: little bit of a renegade in that situation and use

674
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: it as an opportunity to position myself to help the

675
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: firm draft a new policy that was more equitable around

676
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: those opportunities. More from my conversation with Patris after the break,

677
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 1: you know you have already given us such a great

678
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: example of the culture you're trying to set. You mentioned

679
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 1: that you realize that a lot of people on your

680
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: team have lots of different interests, and so I'm guessing

681
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: this could be something that comes up for you. So

682
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 1: how can multi talented, multi interested black women in the

683
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: legal space negotiate around some of these things, maybe still

684
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: wanting to work in the legal firm, but maybe creating

685
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: content that has nothing to do with law. So in

686
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: this particular case, like it was beauty content, it wasn't

687
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: anything law related. So what kinds of things can they

688
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: do to kind of be able to embrace all of

689
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: their passions. I would say it starts with a commitment

690
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 1: not to ignore those other passions, because I feel that

691
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: there could be an inclination to think, oh, well, I

692
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: should only focus on lawyering, or I can do that later.

693
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: So I think, really being honest about the fact that

694
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: this is something that's important to you, then you can

695
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: do it. And your job is then to figure out

696
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: what the path there is. I miss that this was

697
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: beauty content. So I would absolutely be a renegade in

698
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: that scenario and push it back with the firm. But

699
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: what I would say is, if you are employed somewhere else,

700
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of seeking out those internal advocates, talking

701
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: to them about what you want to do. And I'm

702
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: not a fan of hiding just because in this thing

703
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: an age, people are going to find you, and so

704
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 1: it's better just to be transparent and then just do it.

705
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: And so I and I know that may sound like

706
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: oversimplifying it, but if I think back to my job

707
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: before Creative and saw them when I was at for

708
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: five years, I started a food truck and art festival

709
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: while I was at that job, and that festival ran

710
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: for three years and it was pretty big. And I

711
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: also was a lifestyle writer and I had a blog,

712
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: so I did have things outside of work. But the

713
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 1: key was that I invited my bosses to my arch

714
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 1: or food truck festival, and they came and they told

715
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: their kids. And so I did have a scenario where

716
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: at one point someone came forward because they saw something

717
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: posted about one of my outside endeavors. They came forward

718
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: in fact with the whole packet and handed it to

719
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: my boss and said, I don't know if you know

720
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 1: that this is what Patrise has going on outside of work.

721
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: And they did it because they were someone who reported

722
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: to me, and they got angry with some feedback that

723
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: I had to give them. When they did that, my

724
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: boss said, we know, we've went to the event. It

725
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 1: was fantastic. You should come next time. She's doing her job.

726
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: She hasn't done anything wrong. So I think transparency is

727
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: key and honoring your own desires around what you want

728
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: to do and create. And then the other thing is

729
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: if you're worried about your capacity in terms of time.

730
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: I've always treated my personal interests as almost like a

731
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 1: part time job, and so for instance, I have said

732
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: I'll dedicate five hours a week or five to ten

733
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: hours a week to this other thing that I want

734
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: to do because I know that that feeds me. And

735
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 1: I'm experiencing the same thing right now, even though I

736
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 1: run my own firm. I had a realization a few weeks,

737
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: a few months ago actually, that I really wanted to

738
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: get back to creating content. I've always been a writer.

739
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: I've always put out consent and it's slowed down because

740
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: I was running my firm, but that is my creative outlet,

741
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 1: and so now Saturdays is when I'm making it a

742
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: content day and just making it fun for me and

743
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: still having that exploration and enjoy outside of the work.

744
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: So that's what I've done, and that's what I recommend.

745
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. So you've already given us a

746
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: couple of things that you do to take care of

747
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: your mental health. But a lot of what we hear

748
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: about being a lawyer's how stressful it is. So what

749
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: other kinds of things do you do? You talked about therapy,

750
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: life coach, you know, taking breaks. What other kinds of

751
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: things do you do to really take care of your

752
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: mental health? So I have gotten back into reading fiction.

753
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: I've always been an avid reader, but about five years

754
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: ago I realized everything I was reading was personal development

755
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: or business because I wanted to be a great law

756
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: firm owner. But also that didn't give my brain a

757
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: chance to rest. And I decided that I would put

758
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: all of that down and really prioritize just reading fiction.

759
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: And reading fiction for me has been one of the

760
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 1: best outlets ever because I find that my brain starts

761
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: to think in different ways, and I'm unlocking my creativity

762
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: more and I'm able to just like truly escape into

763
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: a good novel where even like with having the TV on,

764
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: it's not fully an escape because I still might have

765
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: my phone in my hand or other things. So fiction

766
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: for me has been an outstanding outlet. I'm not huge

767
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: on working out. I'm working on it, but trying to

768
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: build more physical activity into my routine. I have found that, like,

769
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: if I get stressed in the middle of a work day,

770
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: just to put everything down, and so I will put

771
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: everything down. I have a book that has like writing prompts,

772
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: and so I'll just flip to a page and it's

773
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: like in your wildest dreams, if you were able to

774
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 1: travel anywhere in the world, tell us five places you

775
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: would travel. And so I'll just do little exercises like that,

776
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: and I find that it really helped censor me. And

777
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: I've really more recently embraced gaming as a way of

778
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: just having an outlet, and so for me, it could

779
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: be video gaming, but I've gotten into puzzles and so

780
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: I just have that stuff loaded on my iPad. My

781
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: sister and I both ended a stressful work week and

782
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, let's play a game really quick. My

783
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: sisters in Georgia and so we were able to do

784
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: that virtually. So just infusing a little more fun into

785
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: my life has been a huge way that I've dealt

786
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: with stress and overwhelm. And I'm always out with the girls,

787
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: and in my fiance, we're always out, so there's that,

788
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: but just the fun that I can have when no

789
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: one else is around, making sure I'm intentional around that.

790
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 1: As an outlet, I always love seeing your outings because

791
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: I love to see that, you know, the people that

792
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: are all the team are also taking good care of themselves,

793
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you sharing that. So just around five

794
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: percent of lawyers or black, So can you talk a

795
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 1: little bit about, like what kinds of things maybe you've

796
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: done to create community for yourself or others, And are

797
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: there any organizations that you feel like are doing a

798
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: really great job with that four black lawyers. So creating

799
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: community for me has different at different phases, and it

800
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: is one of the most important things I believe for

801
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: a black lawyer. So I'm glad that you asked a

802
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: question early on. For me, it looked like identifying potential

803
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: mentors or connecting with lawyers to be honest that I

804
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: knew I could learn from. And so early on I

805
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: had a mentor who was a season to entertainment attorney

806
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: here in Chicago. I had the mentor who had previously

807
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: worked for his law firm. And then I was able

808
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: to find a black woman attorney to serve as a mentors. Now,

809
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: she's like, stop calling me that, because we're good friends.

810
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: This was a long time ago. She's like, you mentor me.

811
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: So my community at that time was three mentors, and

812
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: they were critical in helping me develop as a better

813
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: attorney but also a better business owner. For a long time,

814
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: I didn't have community after that point because I had

815
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: the three mentors and I just didn't have the time

816
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: to get out to various mixers and things of that nature.

817
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: And it's actually something that I regret. My head was

818
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: in the books, just trying to build this thing, and

819
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: I just didn't have the time. It's what I saw.

820
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 1: And so if I can give anyone advice, it would

821
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 1: be to just carve out a little bit of time

822
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: to go to the mixers and do that sort of thing,

823
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: because those relationships are going to be valuable for just

824
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: maintaining to be honest, and so what community has evolved

825
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,399
Speaker 1: into for me has been really intentional about when I'm

826
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: in a room and I see specifically rooms where I'm

827
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: getting my own training, so legal education. Usually you're not

828
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: going to have that many black attorneys in the room.

829
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: Because of what doctor Joy shared, I'm very intentional around

830
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: there is a black woman on the other side of

831
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: the room, I'm going to have a conversation with her

832
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: before this day is over. And so I have picked

833
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: up a number of relationships that are so incredibly special

834
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: to me with other black women lawyers, in particular because

835
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: we were intentional about making sure that we connected in

836
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: the room. And so I still am not going to

837
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: like the big conferences or mixers. I'm an introvert and

838
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: so it is much more comfortable for me to connect

839
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: one on one with people. And so I've still not

840
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: done that thing, but I found a way to develop

841
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: the community in a way that it is suited for me.

842
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: In terms of organizations to connect with. Most states have

843
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: a version of Black Women Lawyers Association, and I can

844
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: speak for the one here in Chicago. They do outstanding work.

845
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: There are women from different facets of the legal industry,

846
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: and so I think Black Women Lawyers Association would be fantastic.

847
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 1: And then in Chicago we have the Cook County Bar Association,

848
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 1: which is the oldest black bar association in the country.

849
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: And so I would say, if you're in Chicago, that

850
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: definitely is an option, but if you're not, you do

851
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: probably at least if you're in a metro city, have

852
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: a Black Lawyers bar association connect with them. And these lawyers,

853
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: whether they are your peers, younger than you or older

854
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: than you, they are all going to be so valuable

855
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: to your journey. And the last thing I'll add is

856
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: don't underestimate the value in kind of reaching back and

857
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: lifting people up as you go along. So one thing

858
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,800
Speaker 1: that has been a huge commitment for me has been

859
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: whenever a black law student or a young black woman

860
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: attorney in particular, has reached out to me and asked

861
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: for a few moments of my time, I always give it,

862
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: because when I was at that stage, I actually had

863
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: a very hard time with finding lawyers who were willing

864
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: to kind of give back in that way. And it's

865
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: probably because we're so stressed, and I feel in order

866
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: to help improve the industry overall, to help support black

867
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: women as they're trying to find their way in the industry.

868
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: Just take five minutes if people reach out and have

869
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: a conversation with them about it and let them know

870
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: that you have an open door policy. They are not

871
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: going to in most instances abuse the open door policy,

872
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 1: but the nuggets that you're able to give them are

873
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 1: going to stick with them through the whole career. And

874
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: so people who have been the law student or the

875
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: young person reaching out to me, there has been a

876
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 1: situation where or multiple situations where they have reached certain

877
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: points in their career and they're now saying, hey, Patrise,

878
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: can I bring you in on this particular deal or

879
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: this particular opportunity. And so while I served as a

880
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: mentor for them in some capacity, that comes back around

881
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 1: because now they're in opportunities where they're wanting to bring

882
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: me in as kind of like a senior attorney on

883
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: an opportunity. I love that such actionable steps for people

884
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: to really take the kind of you know, continue to

885
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: develop themselves and their community around them. So I appreciate

886
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: you sharing that this has been such great information for treats.

887
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: I know that the community is really going to love

888
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: everything that you shared here. Today. Can you share your

889
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: website as well as any social media handles for people

890
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: who want to stay connected with you. Sure. We can

891
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: be found at Creative Genius Law dot com and we

892
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: are on Instagram at Creative Genius Law, and I'm on

893
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: Instagram at Creative Underscore eesq perfect. We'll be sure to

894
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: include all of that in the show notes. Thank you

895
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 1: for spending some time with us today, Patrese. Thank you.

896
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Patrese was able to share her expertise

897
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: with us today. To learn more about her or her work,

898
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com

899
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: slash Session three h one, and be sure to text

900
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: two of your girls right now and tell them to

901
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: check out the episode. Award season continues, y'all, and the

902
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: podcast has again been nominated for a Webby Award for

903
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: Best Health, Wellness and Lifestyle Podcast. The last time I checked,

904
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: we were in first place, So if you can take

905
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: a moment to keep us there, I'd really appreciate it.

906
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: You can vote at vote dot Webby Awards dot com.

907
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: The link is also in the show notes. If you're

908
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 1: looking for a therapist in your area, check out our

909
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: therapist directory at Therapy for Blackgirls dot Com slash directory

910
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: and if you want to continue digging into this topic

911
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: or just be in community with other sisters, come on

912
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our

913
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 1: cozy corner of the Internet designed just for black women.

914
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: You can join us at Community dot Therapy for blackgirls

915
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: dot com. This episode was produced by FRIEDA. Lucas and

916
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank

917
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: y'all so much for joining me again this week. I

918
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: look forward to continuing this conversation with you all for

919
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 1: real soon Take it care